All about Charlotte with Simon Curtis... (S4 E12 "Just Say Yes")

Summary

Are You A Charlotte?
iHeartPodcasts
Episode: “All About Charlotte with Simon Curtis... (S4 E12 ‘Just Say Yes’)”
Date: June 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt special, host Kristin Davis (Charlotte York on Sex and the City) welcomes singer-songwriter, author, and superfan Simon Curtis for a deeply personal and reflective discussion. The episode centers on the lasting cultural impact of Sex and the City, the transformative power of storytelling, and the character arc of Charlotte York. Together, Kristin and Simon share behind-the-scenes insights, personal stories about the show's significance, and an in-depth rewatch of the classic episode “Just Say Yes” (S4 E12).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Simon's Early Connection With Sex and the City

• Childhood Lifeline: Simon describes watching SATC as a closeted 12-year-old gay boy in Oklahoma. The show became a “life raft”—his first exposure to joyful, non-tragic depictions of gay life, especially through characters like Stanford.

  "Sex and the City was the first thing I ever saw that showed gay people that it wasn’t a tragedy. ... It was a life raft. It saved me in so many ways. Such a crucial point in my life." – Simon (04:00)

• Growing Up With the Show: He explains that, even though the show’s content wasn’t “age-appropriate,” it provided representation, hope, and a sense of belonging during a period of isolation.

Serendipity & Personal Bonds (08:00–12:30)

• Kristin as Charlotte’s “Godmother”: Simon shares a touching story of losing his chihuahua Lexi during the pandemic and how Kristin’s compassion and timely check-ins led him and his partner to adopt two new puppies—one named Charlotte, born the same night Lexi passed.

  "At that exact moment, my phone vibrated and it was you sending me a message... in the car I just started crying and I was like, well, Charlotte just texted me. We're getting Charlotte. We're getting two puppies." – Simon (09:15)

• Multiple Layers of ‘Charlotte’: Simon recounts a meta-moment involving running into another Charlotte (named after Kristin’s character) at Erewhon, reflecting how SATC has woven into the fabric of people’s lives and the unexpected connections the show still sparks.

Simon’s Creative Journey (12:30–17:40)

• Independent Artistry: Simon pivots from acting to music after industry pushback for being openly gay; his first album goes viral, amassing over 1.75 billion streams.
• Breaking Ground: He highlights being one of the first to independently release pop music online—a move influenced by rapper mixtapes but then rare in his genre.
• Authorship by Serendipity: Simon details how tweeting about YA publishing led to a Simon & Schuster editor (a fan) reaching out, resulting in book deals and a graphic novel.

  "Everything that I've done has always just kind of been like, well, I'll do this." – Simon (16:06)

• Kristin’s Admiration: Kristin celebrates Simon’s perseverance, vulnerability, and creative independence, emphasizing the importance of telling these stories to inspire others.

Sex and the City’s Cultural Impact (17:40–23:30)

• Communal TV Moments: Simon nostalgically recalls the group anticipation and excitement during the show's finale night at the Tulsa P.F. Chang’s, highlighting SATC as a “cultural phenomenon” and group experience that feels rare today.
• Groundbreaking Legacy: Simon passionately asserts SATC’s pivotal influence on television:

  "Sex and the City is the most significant TV show that's ever been made... what TV was as a medium, as an art form, before Sex and the City changed forever after it." – Simon (19:49)

• Kristin’s Perspective: Kristin humbly acknowledges the show’s trailblazing status and describes SATC and The Sopranos as tandem forces—comedy and drama—pushing creative limits at HBO.

Television Evolution & Creative Risks (23:30–35:00)

• Changed TV Landscape: Simon credits SATC’s success for today’s prestige TV (e.g., Euphoria’s cinematic ambition) and increased creative license for showrunners, noting TV pre-1998 was “unimaginable” by comparison.
• Female-Led Shows: Both recall SATC’s status as the “girly show,” often seen as lesser than male-centric dramas, despite breaking new ground in honesty and perspective.
• Carrie’s Voiceover & Show Structure: Simon expresses a wish for a return to the original series’ brisk 30-minute episodes, iconic music, and narrative rhythm—elements he sees as essential to SATC’s unique magic.

  "There was a structure to the show that hit these beats and it was like, it just, it, it’s like hitting a tuning fork. ...It just feels good in your soul." – Simon (36:56)

• Kristin on Reinvention: She agrees with creator Michael Patrick King’s resolve not to simply recreate the original in ‘And Just Like That,’ acknowledging the impossibility (and strangeness) of duplicating a younger, different cadence now.
• Lessons from ‘The Comeback’: Simon observes the revival of Lisa Kudrow's character in The Comeback works by maintaining the core structure but allows for the passage of time and character growth—a model he suggests might influence future SATC storytelling.

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Deep Dive: “Just Say Yes” (Episode Rewatch Discussion)

Script Memories & Writers’ Influence (46:00–49:00)

• Excitement for Charlotte’s Arc: Kristin recalls the anticipation of new scripts, the thrill of reading them in trailers, and learning from Michael Patrick King about the season's planned arc.
• Tulsa Connection: Both bond over Cindy Chupack—the episode’s writer—being from Tulsa, and her status as the “Charlotte voice” in the writers’ room.

Breaking Down Charlotte’s Storyline

• Shocking Mural: Kristin and Simon marvel at the bizarre, “Tim Burton macabre” mural intended for Charlotte’s nursery—acknowledged as unintentionally creepy and not matching the rest of the apartment.

  "It’s terrifying. ... It’s like baby horror, you know?" – Kristin (49:10)

• Charlotte’s Emotional Rollercoaster:
  • Highlights: Simon dubs this run of episodes Charlotte’s “greatest hits,” from joyful declarations (“We’re having a baby!”) to heartbreak and crushing setbacks.
  • Acting Reflections: Kristin reflects on the challenge (and occasional insecurity) acting out Charlotte’s naivete and devastation, and how her own life experience would now add different depth.
  • Support From Simon: He reassures her, praising the authenticity and emotional arc as one of the show’s—and her—great triumphs.

    "You feel that in your gut. There’s panic, there is shame. All of these come out of Charlotte’s eyes and face in two seconds." – Simon (55:10)

Craft, Vulnerability, and Crescent Moon Moments (55:57–61:10)

• Practicing Mandarin: Kristin discusses preparing for the scene where Charlotte studies Mandarin, including a real attempt to learn the lines and actor David Frankel’s personal coaching, grounded in his own IVF experience.
• Performance Details: Simon lauds Kristin’s subtleties—how hormonal mania, heartbreak, and resilience are balanced without ever becoming absurd or saccharine.
• Trey’s Withdrawal: The emotional impact of Trey’s exhaustion and retreat from fertility efforts hits hard for both, underlining Charlotte’s unravelling illusions and the “drip, drip, drip” of disappointment.

The Impact of Character Arcs (52:04–54:51)

• Holistic Storytelling: Simon argues SATC’s sitcom beginnings gave way to “the most beautiful, satisfying character arcs that have ever been put to film.” All four leads grow in a layered, interwoven way—especially Charlotte, whose journeys with marriage and fertility mark a pivot in the show’s emotional register.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "A lifetime of Charlotte from age 11." – Simon Curtis (02:43)
• "I feel like we’ve been pen pals ever since that moment." – Simon Curtis (06:58)
• "You have so many God babies in this world." – Simon Curtis (12:01)
• "You can really have this blooming career kind of somewhat independently... And truth be told, I was one of the very first people to just start releasing independent pop music." – Simon Curtis (14:12)
• “Sex and the City is the most significant TV show that's ever been made.” – Simon Curtis (19:49)
• "SATC was the first thing I ever saw that showed gay people that it wasn’t a tragedy." – Simon Curtis (04:00)
• "There’s something about the music and the pace—it's how it all came together." – Kristin Davis (38:31)
• "This chunk of episodes, it's Charlotte’s greatest hits." – Simon Curtis (58:02)

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Important Timestamps

• [02:12–04:54] – Simon’s first experience with SATC as a lifeline in Oklahoma
• [08:00–09:32] – The serendipitous story of “Charlotte the dog” and Kristin as her godmother
• [12:30–17:40] – Simon’s creative independence, musical and authorial journey
• [17:38–23:30] – SATC’s cultural impact and legacy in modern TV
• [29:07–30:44] – Simon’s defense of TV as the new creative frontier, referencing Euphoria and SATC’s influence
• [36:12–37:53] – Discussion on the signature structure, music, and pacing of original SATC episodes
• [46:01–49:42] – Rewatch of “Just Say Yes,” scripting process, and the infamous nursery mural
• [52:04–54:51] – Simon summarizes the character arcs and SATC’s deep evolution beyond sitcom
• [55:57–58:34] – Kristin and Simon analyze key emotional Charlotte scenes—Mandarin, Scottish dance, IVF, and heartbreak

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Tone, Language, and Style

This episode is warm and conversational, full of nostalgic joy, gratitude, encouragement, and deep fan appreciation. Kristin is candid about her own insecurities and acting process, while Simon is supportive and insightful, combining the devotee’s reverence with real-world perspective as an artist and LGBTQ+ advocate. Their dynamic is affectionate, earnest, and sprinkled with humor.

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Summary

“All About Charlotte with Simon Curtis” is a love letter to Sex and the City’s legacy and to the enduring power of storytelling and representation. Through Simon’s deeply personal lens and Kristin’s reflections, the episode explores the significant cultural ripple effects of SATC, the joy and pain within character arcs (especially Charlotte’s), and the evolution of television as art. With honesty, vulnerability, and mutual admiration, Kristin and Simon celebrate both the past and future of the show—and the unexpected ways it still shapes lives today.

Transcript

[Kristin Davis]

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[Simon Curtis]

I turned off news altogether.

[Kristin Davis]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

[Simon Curtis]

It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people.

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[Simon Curtis]

could calm down a little.

[Kristin Davis]

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[Simon Curtis]

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[Simon Curtis]

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[Kristin Davis]

Hi, I'm Kristen Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? You guys, you guys, we have a very exciting, a very, very exciting guest. Simon Curtis is here with us. He is an uber fan. He is a super sweetheart. We met on social media of some kind but it was a long time ago.

[Simon Curtis]

I think like 12 years ago, right?

[Kristin Davis]

Like a long. And he is so great, you guys and I'm so excited to have him. And we have a lot of levels of Charlotte that we're going to explore.

[Simon Curtis]

A lifetime of Charlotte. A lifetime of Charlotte from age 11.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh my gosh. Amazing. Amazing. Do you remember like how did we connect? Because I don't even remember back that

[Simon Curtis]

far I've literally been a fan of the show since I was 11 years old.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Simon Curtis]

I used to sneak watch it while my parents were watching it. It was like the perfect way to watch the show. My parents would be in the living room watching it and then I would go sneak watch it in the back room at the same time so they weren't getting up to go see what I was doing. So amazing. Every Sunday I would watch.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, I love it. So you were watching it in real time when it was on the first time on HBO?

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Well, that's fantastic. At the ripe age of 11. Oh my gosh.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

And how did, how did that affect you?

[Simon Curtis]

Well, I think that was one of the first conversations that we ever had and I feel like to cry six times today, but this is. I might as well just go ahead and jump into it. I think one of the first conversations that we ever had was telling you how much of a life raft the show was. For me, I was an 1112 year old gay boy in Oklahoma and. And the show premiered. Was it 97 or 98?

[Kristin Davis]

98.

[Simon Curtis]

So 98. So I was 12.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Simon Curtis]

In Oklahoma. And that was just like. And at age 12, that was coming into my sexuality, going into puberty, not knowing what is this and kind of being so isolated. And Sex and the City was the first thing I ever saw that showed gay people that it wasn't a tragedy. It wasn't, you know, we were coming out of AIDS at that time and it was showing gay people just living life. Like Stanford, I think is second episode with, you know, the model. The bone.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Simon Curtis]

And like that was just so, like, it was so much wonder for me. It was like, oh my God, this, look at this world. Look at, look at these people. And this is so different. And he's accepted and look at all this love he's surrounded by. And just in general. So it was, it was such a life raft. It meant so much to me as a kid. Even though, you know, you might say the show might not be appropriate for a 12 year old. But it, it was a life raft. It saved me in so many ways. Such a crucial point in my life.

[Kristin Davis]

That is so great. That is so great to hear. I mean, intellectually we know that to be true in a way. Right? Not maybe not all 12 year olds or whatever, but just that we were, we forget, I think now in 2026 how different television was back then and that it.

[Simon Curtis]

Culture.

[Kristin Davis]

Culture in general society. Absolutely. And for me, I was really, you know, exposed when I was 10 and I started acting in the community theater in South Carolina. That is really where all the gay people went. Right. Because you didn't have a lot of freedom and options, you know, in. In regular life. And in that time. So I was around gay people, like, my whole life. And I think gay people are fantastic, first of all. But second of all, you know, it was just so normal. Like, if you're a theater kid, that is your world. Right.

[Simon Curtis]

And I was, too, you know, from the time I was 10. That's what I was.

[Kristin Davis]

That's great. That's great.

[Simon Curtis]

And, you know, but it was still at a time when I would hear the commentary from my parents who were driving me to and from rehearsal about people in the cast, and. And it was just like one of

[Kristin Davis]

those outside was still.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah. Oh, definitely. And I was raised Catholic, you know, so it's. There's. There's, you know, in addition to.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

Oklahoma. There's Catholicism there. All of these things.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

And. And truly, Sex and the City was the first sort of, like, guiding light of. Wow. There's. There's life.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. So much life.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah. Truly.

[Kristin Davis]

So much.

[Simon Curtis]

Truly.

[Kristin Davis]

That's so nice. That's so nice. I'm so glad that you reached out on whatever. Was it Twitter?

[Simon Curtis]

I think it was Twitter.

[Kristin Davis]

Right?

[Simon Curtis]

I think it was, like, Twitter, like 2016.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Simon Curtis]

I think it was 2016 when we were DMing.

[Kristin Davis]

No way.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah. And I just wrote you that whole thing, and I was like, I just have to tell you this.

[Kristin Davis]

I'm so glad.

[Simon Curtis]

Me, too.

[Kristin Davis]

The best kind of social. Social media, don't you think?

[Simon Curtis]

Absolutely. And you've been a part of that scent ever since we've. I feel like we've been pen pals.

[Kristin Davis]

We have.

[Simon Curtis]

Ever since that moment.

[Kristin Davis]

So true. Well, because you're just very real and you're very positive, and you're super sweet, and.

[Simon Curtis]

Thank you.

[Kristin Davis]

You know, you're very vulnerable in a way, like, you know, when. Like, I'm not gonna go into details, but, like, things have happened to you and you've posted about them, and I'm

[Simon Curtis]

always like, simon, that actually is how you became my Charlotte's godmother. And I have to say, I was waiting until we were to share this, because I don't even know if you are fully still aware of the full scope of how serendipitous it was. So in 2021, my partner and I, we had been spending time in Oklahoma, pretty much full time, when the pandemic hit. And, like, with family, it was just a nice place to be at the time. And he was modeling in Mexico City. And it was September 2021, and he was gone for like two months. And I was there with our 16 year old Chihuahua, Lexi, and she passed in her sleep in the bed with me. And you were one of the first people to reach out immediately. And you, you kept checking in on me. And it was so kind and so sweet. And it was. It was right about that time I met a chihuahua breeder nearby who let me come to her house for puppy therapy. And before Lexi had even passed, my partner Jor, he started having dreams about a white Chihuahua.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Simon Curtis]

And the first one that I met was the runt of the litter, this little white Chihuahua named Henry. And from Mexico City, he was like, that's my dog. That's like, I. We have to. We have to have him. And then there was this other little puppy named Charlotte. And come to find out, she was born the night that Lexi passed.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh.

[Simon Curtis]

And she had just all these behavioral isms that were just her. And I was like, oh, my God, this is Lexi. Like, she reincarnated instantly.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Simon Curtis]

And so when he got back from Mexico City, we went to go meet both of the dogs and we parked in front of the house afterwards, and I just, I sat in the car. I was like, what are we gonna do? We can't get two puppies. And at that exact moment, my phone vibrated and it was you sending me a message. And you said, hi, honey. I know it's been a minute because it was like two and a half weeks or like almost a month after the fact. I just wanted to check in on you and see how you were holding up. And in the car, I just started crying and I was like, well, Charlotte just texted me. We're getting Charlotte. We're getting two puppies.

[Kristin Davis]

And I'm so glad I had a positive impact.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, my God. But it was literally the words came out of my mouth, we can't get to puppies. Just checking on you, seeing how you do it. And I. Yeah. So you've been her. You've been her godmother ever since.

[Kristin Davis]

How's she doing?

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, she's so good. She's so good. And the other story I was telling you before we started at Erewhon, because I'm always at Sportsman's Lodge in Studio City. The gym is there and it's just. It's like the fun place in Studio City.

[Kristin Davis]

It's now, which is really interesting because it. It wasn't always the case. It used to be scary.

[Simon Curtis]

I don't think I'd ever walked through there until they turned it into and

[Kristin Davis]

now they've done like this magical rebrand or whatever before.

[Simon Curtis]

Wasn't it like the haunted place of like studio executive?

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah, it was dark over there. Like you were like, what has happened in these four walls?

[Simon Curtis]

Dark, devious deeds.

[Kristin Davis]

Yep.

[Simon Curtis]

But now it's really cool.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay, good.

[Simon Curtis]

And Charlotte is kind of like a mascot there. I take her there and she's so social and everybody loves her and so when I bring her into Erewhon, everybody knows who she is and it's just like the cutest thing.

[Kristin Davis]

That is cute.

[Simon Curtis]

And one of the employees there, she's adorable girl named Charlotte and she lives in the neighborhood where we walk all of our dogs and so we've bonded and she told me once that her parents named her after you, after Charlotte. And so one night I came in and this was last year. At some point I came in just to grab something in my pajamas holding Charlotte. Charlotte was checking me out and she was like, oh my God, you just missed Charlotte. Kristen Davis was just here and I was like, is she? I ran out to the parking lot holding Charlotte. I was like, where?

[Kristin Davis]

I'm so sad. I miss you.

[Simon Curtis]

And I, I texted you immediately. But I don't think you saw it like the next day or something because it was the middle of the night. But I was like, this is. There are so many layers of Charlotte happening right now. Like your goddaughter.

[Kristin Davis]

It's really sad though that I missed you in your pajamas with Charlotte at Erewhon. You are living an la life. That is awesome. Okay.

[Simon Curtis]

With the Erewhon cashier who's like this 17 year old girl who's named after you.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh my God.

[Simon Curtis]

Your parents are like turbo fans. Truly.

[Kristin Davis]

Thank you to the parents of Charlotte who works at Erewhon Studio City. That's lovely. And I love any dog named Charlotte. Just so everyone knows. It's always like makes my heart sing to meet the little puppies.

[Simon Curtis]

You have so many God babies in this world.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, I love it.

[Simon Curtis]

Anytime I meet a dog named Charlotte, it's always because of you. Any dog named Charlotte, it's.

[Kristin Davis]

I don't even know if I should really take credit for that. Right. I think Charlotte's just a good name. But I do feel very excited whenever I meet.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh no. Because I, I talk about it with people and they always clarify and there's always a post conversation.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay.

[Simon Curtis]

Always.

[Kristin Davis]

I love that. I love that you're out there representing Simon. I really appreciate it. Can I Also mention because. Just. Just because, you know, let's be thorough here. You have a very beautiful voice.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, thank you.

[Kristin Davis]

Now, I knew that you had this whole career in music, but, like, when I'm just sitting here listening to your voice, it's so incredibly beautiful.

[Simon Curtis]

Thank you so much. Thank you.

[Kristin Davis]

So just tell us a little bit about your music.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah, I start. So I started on nickelodeon in, like, 2009. I was in a musical called Spectacular, a movie musical.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay.

[Simon Curtis]

And that was, like, post High School Musical and all of that. And I. So I was. I started as an actor when I moved to la, and then I had some interesting experiences that were a little traumatic at the time, looking back, and I pivoted and was like, you know what? I'm so tired of hearing. No. I'm so tired of people telling me that I have to not be gay. All of these things.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Simon Curtis]

And I'm gonna release music. And so I released my first album, Ape at heart, in 2010, and it went super viral. And I've had this incredible fan base ever since with my music.

[Kristin Davis]

Amazing.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah. So it's been. It's. I've been making music ever since, so.

[Kristin Davis]

And you. So. And you. You have some crazy number of streams.

[Simon Curtis]

Yes. So I think the grand, like, lifetime total of my music that's up on all the streamers right now is at, like, 1.75 billion streams cumulatively.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

That's so crazy.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Kristin Davis]

I also feel like there's just, like, music is so interesting. Right. Because people think it's just pop music, but it isn't. Like, you can really have this blooming career kind of somewhat independently. Oh, is that the right word?

[Simon Curtis]

Completely. And. And. And truth be told, I was one of the very first people to just start releasing independent pop music.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Simon Curtis]

In 2010, that was a really revolutionary thing. It was really just like rappers releasing mixtapes.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Simon Curtis]

And so I was one of the first people who put out an electronic pop album in that same way.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Simon Curtis]

So it's. Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

That's so neat.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah, it's been really cool.

[Kristin Davis]

How did you know how to do that? Like, how. What made you think of that?

[Simon Curtis]

I. When I first moved out to la, one of my best friends was an aspiring producer, and we just were always recording, making music together, and that was I. After Spectacular, and after I was having all of these sort of actor traumas, I just decided to do it. I was like, let's make an album. I'm. I'm buckling down and I'm Doing it.

[Kristin Davis]

Amazing. Yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

That is so. I love to hear the stories where people are able to kind of keep their autonomy, create from a place of, you know, like, you're grounded, you're making what you want to make, and then you're putting it out there. It's so amazing that that's something you can do in this day and age, but I don't think that people are always aware that that's something you can do and that.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah, I wasn't aware of it either. It was always just a decision even. You know, I'm an author as well, and when I decided to write my first book, I just did it.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, my gosh.

[Simon Curtis]

And I. I wrote on Twitter. Who here knows anything about YA publishing? And one of my Turbo fans at the time had this avatar of a little cupcake, and he was like, hey, send me a D. For whatever reason. I was like, sure. And I did. And he was like, I'm an editor at Simon and Schuster.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Simon Curtis]

And he'd been a fan of my music since I started putting it out.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Simon Curtis]

And he was like, I want to hear more about the book you're writing. And he wound up buying my book at Simon and Schuster.

[Kristin Davis]

Incredible.

[Simon Curtis]

And so that was published in 2016, and then I had my first graphic novel published last year.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Simon Curtis]

So it's. Everything that I've done has always just kind of been like, well, I'll do this.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Well, I think, number one, you're incredibly talented, but number two, super smart. That you're. That you're thinking proactively for yourself. And I do feel like that's possible in this day and age. I just don't think that people necessarily. Maybe they don't have your just innate confidence. Right. Of I'm just gonna do this or whatever. But also, that's why I like to tell the stories like this, because I feel like, like. Do you know Benito Skinner?

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

I love him.

[Simon Curtis]

I've met him before. Yeah, he's so great. Super, super, super sweet. And that show.

[Kristin Davis]

Incredible, right?

[Simon Curtis]

I was able to have such a beautiful moment with him last summer at the Hollywood Cemetery. He's good friends with my friend Janet, and we went to see the anniversary showing of Clueless. And so she's on one of the Bravo shows, the Valley. And so we were in with, like, the talent section, and he was with us. And I happened to go to the bathroom at the same time with him, and I just had this conversation where I was saying the same thing. Like, I'm So inspired seeing you. You made this. Yes. You brought it to life. You're shepherding it.

[Kristin Davis]

Y.

[Simon Curtis]

Such an inspiration, especially as a fellow gay person.

[Kristin Davis]

Like fellow gay person. And super creative and so nice and so hard working and so creatively, you know, engaged. Right. But he started making his, you know, spoofy videos, 100 on Instagram or Tik Tok or whatever.

[Simon Curtis]

And you never know where it's going to lead.

[Kristin Davis]

Exactly.

[Simon Curtis]

Never. And you just have to put yourself out there and do it.

[Kristin Davis]

You just have to do it.

[Simon Curtis]

And honestly, I feel like that's such an extension of. Of my teenage years and even tying back to what the show did for me because when I moved to LA, I was 18.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Simon Curtis]

I saved up. I was working at P F Chang's in Tulsa.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Simon Curtis]

Which I also have a good story because I was working at P F Chang's the night of the series finale. And I've heard you talk about what the impact of the show was for the outside world because it was such, obviously such an insular experience for you being in the middle of it.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

And I mean, I can remember before the show premiered, front page in the newspaper, like the headline, let's talk about sex and this, like, in the newspaper in Oklahoma, before the show ever premiered, how much of a cultural phenomenon it was. And by the time the series was wrapping up, it was like. It's so hard to describe what it was like going to work that night. And every single person coming in the door in this busy restaurant in the middle of the winter. And every single person was, well, are. Are you gonna. Blah, blah, blah, is watching the show? Do you want to know? Do you wanna know? And it was like this palpable. And at one point during the shift, somebody said, there was like, somebody who was a little tipsy and somebody said at this table, she wound up with Big. And the entire place cheered like this.

[Kristin Davis]

No way.

[Simon Curtis]

It was. It's. It's so hard to describe because it wasn't like the Super Bow. It just felt bigger. It felt so culturally pervasive.

[Kristin Davis]

I miss those days where we could have a group experience, not, not of us, but just in general, you know, like the group experience of watching something together, talking about something, you know, and culture. And I mean, it kind of happens now, like, I guess, stranger Things, you know, but it's still kind of separated, you know, like, in terms of the cultural conversation and the experience of watching it.

[Simon Curtis]

Totally. But Sex and the City started it.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, I don't think we started it, but you're Adorable.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, no, I. And that's another thing that I said before we started. I will defend to the death that I truly believe Sex and the City is the most significant TV show that's ever been made.

[Kristin Davis]

You're adorable.

[Simon Curtis]

I'm. I say it without hyperbole.

[Kristin Davis]

I know. You're so cute.

[Simon Curtis]

Because if you look like. The history of television, what TV was as a medium, as an art form before Sex and the City changed forever after it, I don't know. It was a truly. It's like a deviating path in the timeline, really. 100%. 100%.

[Kristin Davis]

That's so sweet. I don't know if that's true, but I really appreciate it. I mean, I do love us. I do love us. Right. Obviously, I wouldn't do a podcast about us if I didn't love us, but I don't know about. It's still a little hard for me to fully be objective.

[Simon Curtis]

I say, like, I. I take, for example, Euphoria, something that's airing right now. Yeah, it's. Hans Zimmer is doing the score for every episode. Kodak invented a new type of film for this season to be shot on.

[Kristin Davis]

No way.

[Simon Curtis]

You aren't getting these experiences in the movie theater these days.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow, wow, wow.

[Simon Curtis]

And this show on HBO is. Is getting this. Like, Sam Levinson is just getting to make. Make the movie of his dreams every week. Yeah, that is a direct result. But that's. But that's even. Just somebody. Even if. Whether or not you like it, like somebody is able, or whether or not you think it's.

[Kristin Davis]

No, no, I understand what you're saying.

[Simon Curtis]

Somebody's getting at another level, the creative license to. And if you thought about. If you think about TV pre 1998, that. That was unimaginable.

[Kristin Davis]

You're right. You're right. I do. I would put us and Sopranos, I think, because Sopranos, like, because of what they were able to do creatively, I think, because we both happened at the same time, which was, of course, you know, the brilliance of the people working at HBO at the time, Carolyn and Chris. It was really just those two, which is also really funny. Like, people think it was like a whole team of people. Not really. It was a really small little group.

[Simon Curtis]

But to that end, I listened to the episode of this podcast where you were talking with the executive at hbo, hbo. And I loved hearing you say it, because I've always believed it. But you. You laid out the timeline, and Sex and the City was first.

[Kristin Davis]

It's true. We were.

[Simon Curtis]

And because of the success of Sex and the City. The Sopranos got this creative license to just be what it was.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, I think that they went together and I think that they, they. I mean, we were. I think the thing that's interesting about it is at the time, which I think I said before, we were very much like the girly show, right? We were like a little bit lesser than. I don't know, it felt like that's, that's how it felt at the time, right?

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, it pisses me off. Ooh, I get steamed. Ooh, I get riled up by.

[Kristin Davis]

You're so cute.

[Simon Curtis]

No, I really do.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, but in a lot of ways it made sense because I think at the beginning of us, no one ever thought we'd win an Emmy. A comedy on cable had never won an Emmy. Right. It wasn't, you know, whatever. And Sopranos was also really creating first in so many ways for hbo. So we had, we were like tandem, right? Comedy, half hour, you know, hour long drama, obviously. And they got so many kudos.

[Simon Curtis]

Well, of course they did because it's the mafia grow show.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. But they were also really great.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, completely, completely. And that's not to, that's not to discredit them. I just feel like I've spent 20 years like defending like going to bat and be like, no. Sex in the City was first. Also, the thing about Sex and the City is that it was a level of honesty that didn't exist on television.

[Kristin Davis]

That's true.

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Simon Curtis]

I love it.

[Kristin Davis]

Do you love it?

[Simon Curtis]

I'm like, I love it.

[Kristin Davis]

My issue is that once I get the kids to bed, I have, like, one hour, right?

[Simon Curtis]

Totally.

[Kristin Davis]

And I am scared to watch something so intense because then I can't sleep. It's a little intense for me, I will say.

[Simon Curtis]

Because you're Pisces, right? I am also a Pisces.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Simon Curtis]

All of my Pisces friends are obsessed with it.

[Kristin Davis]

Really?

[Simon Curtis]

It hits. Do you. It's like, did you enjoy the very first Kill Bill?

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. Oh, I love Kill Bill.

[Simon Curtis]

That season three of Euphoria.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, really?

[Simon Curtis]

So imaginative.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay.

[Simon Curtis]

It's a constant. Everything feels like a dream and a poem.

[Kristin Davis]

But it's like. And possibly also a nightmare.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh. I mean, in terms of the storytelling.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Simon Curtis]

I mean it's the scary part fantasy sequence that it's like I, I always think about. In Kill Bill Volume 1. One of the scenes is fully anime and you're not taken out of the movie.

[Kristin Davis]

That's true.

[Simon Curtis]

And it's. It's Lucy Liu's character's backstory. But it's just an anime.

[Kristin Davis]

I forgot about that.

[Simon Curtis]

And then one sequence as you're watching it goes completely black and white. You don't notice it until it's. Oh. And it's things like that.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes, I understand.

[Simon Curtis]

So all of my like all of my Pisces friends who are obsessed with like Pan's Labyrinth or you know, things like that. It's just.

[Kristin Davis]

That's not me.

[Simon Curtis]

It might be a little too scary. But the level of imagination is what I'm saying.

[Kristin Davis]

Which is, which is impressive. It's very impressive.

[Simon Curtis]

Unbridled imagination.

[Kristin Davis]

And that's what's really amazing about hbo. And you know, I really hope that they're able to. To keep their own autonomy in the current insanity of our business. You know, because they do allow people to take those risks.

[Simon Curtis]

100. And that's where sex and the City stands alone. Also. Sarah Jessica doing Sex in the City. That's another reason the show was so significant.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

There'd never been a movie star that had just all of a sudden done TV like that. That's really true. There it was because I. Sarah Jessica was such like. I grew up with the VHS of Flight of the Navigator as one of my very first repeat movies. Like it was Brave Little Toaster, Little Mermaid and Flight of the Navigator. So I had all of her die dialogue from Flight of the Navigator burned into my brain from the time I

[Kristin Davis]

was 2 years old. This is like out of my realm of knowledge.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh my God. Yeah, it's.

[Kristin Davis]

Someone else brought this up to me and I was like, I don't even know what you're talking.

[Simon Curtis]

It's a beautiful movie.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Simon Curtis]

And she's an icon in it. Wow. It's.

[Kristin Davis]

How could I have missed it?

[Simon Curtis]

But then she went from that to, you know, as a child. Like I'm talking. I was watching that as a 2 year old.

[Kristin Davis]

Got it.

[Simon Curtis]

That's on repeat.

[Kristin Davis]

Crazy.

[Simon Curtis]

And then from there was Hocus Pocus.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Simon Curtis]

Which again on repeat. And then First Wives Club.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Simon Curtis]

I was like this little fifth grade gay boy who couldn't stop watching First Wives Club. And so it was just like this string. And then that led right into seeing the newspaper of Sarah Jessica Parker. Let's talk about sex in the newspaper and being like, she's on a show. So it was just this, like, seamless thing for me to experience.

[Kristin Davis]

I like that. I like that. She would like that, too. That would be nice for her to hear. I love it.

[Simon Curtis]

And honestly, when I. And that's. That's one of the things I think I might have DMed you at some point in my many diary entries I've sent you over the years.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, I love it.

[Simon Curtis]

Just like, even. Even that, you know, because I've always told you that the show was such a guiding light for me in my life. And even her being Carrie in it, that was, you know, she was somebody as an actor who's been with me since I was 2 years old.

[Kristin Davis]

That's amazing.

[Simon Curtis]

This is. You know, there's a level of. Of love and kinship that you feel not only for the characters, but for you as actors and how significant these roles have been in so many people's lives and especially my life. Like, it's. It's. It's really, really remarkable.

[Kristin Davis]

It's so really nice. It's so nice to feel that. And it's. I think the. The joy. The joy of. It was just the other day, Lisa Kudrow, who's been, you know, out. I know, right? Talking about the comeback and it's over now, which I'm so sad, and it's so good. And she was talking about. She's been talking about so many fascinating things out there. Yeah, she's super fascinating person. And she was talking about how she had always thought that fame would feel like a warm hug, but that it didn't. It felt. And I can't remember the word she used, but something like a. Like a onslaught, like a, you know, like an attack or whatever, which sometimes it can, obviously, I think, can feel like both. Right. But sometimes. And it kind of comes and goes in waves in terms of the intensity of it, which I think is also important. Someone said that to me when I was really young, like, oh, it won't always be, you know, if you're having a rough day with it or whatever, it's not always going to be that which is important to remember. But the warm hug part, I think, is, like, when you can get a little distance from it, and then you can kind of not feel so inundated, you know, with whatever, you know, you're going through or whatever.

[Simon Curtis]

Totally.

[Kristin Davis]

And you can just have the connection with people and the connection that people have with the work and with characters and with what you all made, which is so, like, isn't that why we do what we do.

[Simon Curtis]

And I told you this before. And just like that ever even premiered. I was so amazed by what a gift that was for actors to be able to revisit characters in these sort of. And that's the exact same thing that Lisa must be experiencing right now with the Comeback, which is interesting because they're both Michael Patrick King projects, and it's these very unique experiences for actors where you've. You've not only been able to craft these characters with so much love and soul, but you've been able to shepherd them across decades.

[Kristin Davis]

I agree.

[Simon Curtis]

And I don't think there are. And I said this to you when. And just like that premiered, I don't think there are actors who've ever gotten to experience that.

[Kristin Davis]

No, I know. It's incredible.

[Simon Curtis]

Ever gotten to do that and what an achievement that is.

[Kristin Davis]

I agree. I agree. It is an achievement, and we are really, really happy that we got to do it. Don't get me started on that.

[Simon Curtis]

Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I. I much like the Comeback. When I first watched it, I never, ever thought that it would come back. And then here we are.

[Kristin Davis]

Totally.

[Simon Curtis]

It's. I'm always. I'm always holding, holding out faith for my girls, because that's sweet.

[Kristin Davis]

You know, we did have Michael Patrick here, and he said. I said to him, what are you going to do? This was last week, I want to say. And he said, you know, now that the Comeback is done and we're done, I'm all out of ip. I got to create some fresh ip. And I was like. I tried to really, like, hold my. Myself together when he said that.

[Simon Curtis]

I'll. Can. Can I. Can I speak freely?

[Kristin Davis]

Of course.

[Simon Curtis]

Okay. So my dream. My. My dream of dreams.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

A. I always want my girls back.

[Podcast Advertiser 1]

I need.

[Simon Curtis]

I need them in, like, I will follow them into the sunset. I always need them.

[Kristin Davis]

Thank you.

[Simon Curtis]

But my dream of dreams.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

Is the original show format, 30 minutes, like, the same with. With Carrie voiceover narrating.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

And.

[Kristin Davis]

Wait, you don't mean the original format where we talk to the camera?

[Simon Curtis]

No, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, I'm.

[Kristin Davis]

I was like, how far back do we have to go?

[Simon Curtis]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm talking when the. When the series was, like, firing on all cylinders.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes, yes, there is.

[Simon Curtis]

And you see it like people doing parodies. People will write tweets in the format of a page of sex. And it's. It's like Golden Girls. When Golden Girls hit the stride There was a structure to the show that hit these beats and it was like, it just, it, it, it's like hitting a tuning fork.

[Kristin Davis]

I know.

[Simon Curtis]

It just feels good in your soul.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

That's what the episodes of Sex and the City are like. The, the cadence, the pacing.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

How much you get you. It. It all happens lightning fast. So fast in those episodes. But by the time you finish the season, you've had these character arcs.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Simon Curtis]

That just. Especially by the time you get to season four, which I'm so excited to be talking about. By the time you get to season four, you're seeing these women's lives change. Even though you've been watching these 30 minute episodes. And that was like. That is my dream. I want, I want 2030 minute episodes. I want Carrie's voiceover back. I want the music that was also such a. But it's something. You know, as a musician, I love the music in the first series. These jazz interstitials, these. And then by the time. And also season four is when you start getting the really good needle drops.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

I think the episode after the one that we're reviewing today is when the Sade song comes on.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, I forgot.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh my God, that song makes me cry. Because of the show. And it's. And it's. And the end of the season, I heart ny. That is. That is my favorite episode of Sex and the City that exists. And Moon river end capping that episode is like. It makes me sob my eyes out. And there's just, you know, the, I don't know, there's something about the music and the pace.

[Kristin Davis]

It's how it all came together. I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. I, I don't think that we can recreate that. I totally know why you would want us to recreate that, but I don't think it can be done. And I think that Michael, when we did, and just like that, and this is the end, then we'll go. We're going to talk about the episode.

[Simon Curtis]

Sorry.

[Kristin Davis]

I'm telling myself as much as you. When we went to do a Just like that, he felt really strongly that we had to be extremely clear that we were not going to be recreating the show because we would just fail because we're. Because we're in our 50s now and it can't be the same show and it can't be the same rhythm and it can't be all of those things. And I get what he was saying because it would be strange to have us in this whole, whole very different decade. Right. Trying to do that. I think there's probably a happy medium. Right. But he just felt very strongly from his point of view that it had to, we had to be clear that we are being very different.

[Simon Curtis]

What I think is so interesting is that he is saying that, but also making the Comeback. Which good point is that's even though the, the tone.

[Kristin Davis]

Good point.

[Simon Curtis]

The place in life.

[Kristin Davis]

You got me, Simon.

[Simon Curtis]

The tone of season three of the Comeback is completely different.

[Kristin Davis]

That's true.

[Simon Curtis]

Cadence is the same. What you sit down to experience is experientially the same thing. But the tone is.

[Kristin Davis]

The tone is different. Right.

[Simon Curtis]

I mean, I have watched this.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, I, I watched it. Yes. But I didn't watch the. I haven't watched the first one in a long time.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, okay. I mean that's, you know, that is, it's, it's kind of like akin to old Ricky Gervais situational single cam, like the original Office. It's like humiliation comedy. It's deeply uncomfortable to watch.

[Kristin Davis]

Well, that's how I felt the first time. And it was also right at the end of our show. Right. And it was about a 40 something year old actress who was, who was, who was over, quote, over trying to make a comeback.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

And being humiliated all the time. And I was basically just laying on my couch crying because the show was over. So I was like, we can't do this. And I felt so guilty because I couldn't watch it. I love him so much and I wanted to support. I was like, it's like daggers in my heart. I can't watch it.

[Simon Curtis]

But now, now. And to what I was saying, even though it's the same format, we are experiencing Valerie Cherish in a totally different way.

[Kristin Davis]

That is so true.

[Simon Curtis]

In this season we're seeing, even though similar things might be happening to her, we're seeing that she has so much wisdom and she earned so much respect, so much heart and so much. And people are giving her, her flowers the entire season.

[Kristin Davis]

And it's.

[Simon Curtis]

And it feels very natural because of the time progression. And they didn't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They didn't have to completely reinvent the show to do that.

[Kristin Davis]

You're giving me good ideas. That's really, really true. That's really, really true. I hadn't thought about that. You know what I think is also interesting and I'll have to think about this some more because you bring up good points. Lysa and Michael wrote the whole this season together. Right? And they wrote in the beginning together. So I think that because you have another voice with you, maybe he doesn't have as much pressure.

[Simon Curtis]

I mean, that's a big thing, really

[Kristin Davis]

carries the pressures, the creative pressure totally like kind of alone. Even though we have these incredible writers, you know, he takes it so and

[Simon Curtis]

I cannot imagine what that must be like with Sex and the City because as I said, it is the most significant TV show in the history of television. So that's a lot of pressure weighing on that. But pressure makes diamonds. Pressure makes diamonds.

[Kristin Davis]

That's so true.

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[Kristin Davis]

room, all nurses to the nurses station.

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[Podcast Advertiser 1]

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Simon Curtis]

Oh my God.

[Kristin Davis]

It's called Just say Yes. And honestly, this is. I've said this before. I mean, I don't remember a lot of season four because I. I do believe in my mind that I had had season three and season four were together because Charlotte's arc is still the same. Same. Right. Like because the Trey marriage overlaps in a way that was never supposed to happen. Right?

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. And I'm going through all the things. Like I didn't separate them in my mind, I think, which is why I think they were all just season three to me.

[Simon Curtis]

And also, I have to say this before we get into the episode itself. How did you feel going into, I mean, I guess season three and four? Because to me, having watched every episode at least 70 times, like, actually, how did you feel as an actor just getting these scripts? Because this.

[Kristin Davis]

I was very excited. Very excited. Very excited. I mean, that's always how. I mean, this is how I felt. We would get the scripts in a manila envelope. This is back before they would do the watermarking and all that stuff. Right. And you would just go to your trailer and rip it open and try to read it before they called you back to the set, you know, because you're just dying to know what's gonna happen.

[Simon Curtis]

Well, yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Now, we would have known from Michael the arc.

[Simon Curtis]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

And so you would have, you would. He would always give us the plan and run it by us and get our thoughts and whatever. But you never knew how that was gonna manifest itself in the script. Right. And because each script is assigned to a different writer. So this, this particular script. Just say yes, it. Cindy Shupak.

[Simon Curtis]

Stop. I have to interject. So I have another layer of that in my life. So I'm from Tulsa, Oklahoma, where Cindy Schupack is from. And so growing up watching it, my best child, childhood friend Heather, her older sister, was lifelong best friends with Cindy's sister. And they're both Jewish. The Jewish community in Tulsa is very tight knit. And so growing up watching Sex and the City, Heather's dad Larry was just always, always bragging about her and, oh, have you watched Sex in the City? You know, Cindy Shupack is writing it. And so it was just like when I saw that, when I saw that she wrote this episode, I was like, adorable.

[Kristin Davis]

And it's such a good one. And she really is very charlotty. Very, very charlotty. All the, all the writers in the room considered her to be like a good Charlotte voice. Right. Because she's very, you know, she, she came on the show and she, she said she was a Charlotte. I, I'm pretty sure she, she had a lot of. Even though at this point in their lives, the writers didn't have a lot of this experience that Charlotte's having yet. Yeah, it was like they hadn't found their person, they hadn't tried to get pregnant, all that stuff. But she really wanted all those things in the same way that Charlotte does. Right. And the thing that's interesting in this particular one, I would say for myself when I rewatched it, so much happens with Charlotte. I had thought that these different scenes, I remember the scenes, but I thought they were in different episodes. I didn't realize they were all jam packed into one. And let me just ask you, because this is on the top of my mind, do you remember when. I don't know if we've explained this or not. Right. Like, do you remember when he tells me that he doesn't really want to have a baby anymore and he's tired and I walk into the other room and that mural is there? Do you know what that is?

[Simon Curtis]

I don't.

[Kristin Davis]

Isn't it kind of scary.

[Simon Curtis]

I mean, it's terrifying. It's like, I feel like there's a certain element of, like, Tim Burton macabre to all of that. Like, right. What's it? The Manhattan. Who's. It also looked like that mural when Charlotte's like, oh, you need a Manhattan. Who's it? And it's like this weird, like, what the heck? Crawl out of a Tim Burton movie.

[Kristin Davis]

And I remember at the time, I was. I think I felt the same way, but also, like, I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I didn't know who had painted it. Like, you're. This is the situation you're in on a set. It's for the baby. It's the baby's room.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah, that's.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, no. I knew it was for the baby's

[Kristin Davis]

room, but it's still, like, baby horror, you know? I don't. I didn't get to the bottom of it. I don't know why, but, like, when I'm re seeing it, I'm like, wow, it's scarier than even I realized at the time. And it's also so big. And it doesn't go with their apartment at all.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

What the heck, man? And then there's, like, a chest that's also dark green. And later on, I think I have to deal with that. I remember that being, like, looming large or whatever.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, that's funny.

[Kristin Davis]

Scary. Kind of scary, but also, like, the way that I, like, walk in there and, like, look at it. It's all there. Very spooky.

[Simon Curtis]

That's something, too. I was so excited that I got asked to review this episode because I feel like it's right in the middle. There's a string of episodes that are Charlotte's like, greatest hits. The episode before ends with, we're having a baby.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

And your delivery on that. It makes me cry every time. I've seen the show 8,000 times. It makes me cry every time. It's. It's. And then you go from that to this episode. I'm getting some juice, and I don't know. And then the next episode, like, it's just.

[Kristin Davis]

It's a lot.

[Simon Curtis]

All these. All these scripts are Charlotte's. It's a lot's greatest hits.

[Kristin Davis]

I know. It's definitely a lot. And I don't even know at the time if I realized that. You know what I'm saying? Like, if I really was like, maybe that's also why I maybe don't remember. I remember stuff about filming It. Right. But the fact that it's all in one, and I mean, in this particular episode. And then we'll be more linear or whatever. But we're Pisces, so let's not. I had Asif Manvi on. He's also a Pisces. We ended up seeing George Harrison, who's also a Pisces, and talking about whether time existed or not.

[Simon Curtis]

I mean, it's a sphere, so it's exactly right. Right.

[Kristin Davis]

It's right.

[Simon Curtis]

Everything. Everywhere, all at once. We're there.

[Kristin Davis]

Let's only have Pisces guests.

[Simon Curtis]

But it's true. But also, like, you can't. You can only take certain episodes. You can only take any of these episodes without the context of the entire season and the series. So I feel like you kind of have to zoom in. Like, you have to have the macro to accurately discuss the micro.

[Kristin Davis]

Absolutely. Absolutely true.

[Simon Curtis]

And that's what I love about this season is. I mean, honestly, it's one of the things that I love so much about this, the show in general, is because you started thinking you're getting this sitcom.

[Kristin Davis]

Right?

[Simon Curtis]

And by the time the entire series wraps, you have the most beautiful, satisfying character arcs that have ever been put to film. And I mean, all four characters. You have Charlotte at the very final episode. This is our baby God. Like, you have Miranda. Steve, your mother can come live with us.

[Kristin Davis]

I forgot about that. And mirror.

[Simon Curtis]

And then you have Samantha. You were the greatest man I've ever known. And then you have Carrie with her phone and her voiceover saying, the greatest relationship you can ever have in your life is the relationship that you get with yourself. And if you find someone else who loves you along the way, well, then that's just fabulous.

[Kristin Davis]

Amazing.

[Simon Curtis]

They are the. The four. It's. It's all. All intertwined, and they are the greatest arcs that you've ever gotten. And each season is also its own arc.

[Kristin Davis]

Definitely.

[Simon Curtis]

And I feel like having seen the show so many times, Charlotte was the very first one of the four characters that started really getting like, the meat and bones character arc starting in season three.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Simon Curtis]

It. And especially just seeing. Seeing the scripts that you were working with. It was because everybody. Everybody got that every. Every single one of these characters into some real.

[Kristin Davis]

Definitely.

[Simon Curtis]

But Charlotte was the first one Charlotte was with Interesting. Her marriage dissolving and then the fertility journey.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

Charlotte was the first one who was like, especially as an actor, they were throwing you into some real.

[Kristin Davis]

They were. They were. I. I mean, I look back on it, and I. I mean, I do think I Was very excited. I think it was kind of scared. And then, like, when I watch it, I'm like, oh, my God, So much is happening. So much is happening. And if I were to do it now, obviously, 30 years later, 25 years later, whatever it is, you know, I would have more to call upon as an actor. But I feel like, the thing that's interesting, watching it, because Charlotte is. One of my best friends. Describes Charlotte as like my younger sister, you know? Cause she's different, but similar. Right. And she's kind of more, you know, innocent in some ways and whatnot than I am. I don't know if that's the right word, but. But, you know, she needs her. She hasn't been through all this yet. You know what I'm saying? So, like, sometimes when I watch a scene, like, sometimes I'll watch a scene, like, I love the scene when Cynthia. When I do go, you know, Cynthia's decided to keep the baby. I love that scene. I'm not totally sure about my performance on the street, though. That was last episode, too, you know, when Cynthia follows me, when Miranda follows me. Are you sure?

[Simon Curtis]

15%. 15% chance of ever. Are you kidding? Oh, my God. No.

[Kristin Davis]

You feel that, Simon, to be with me at all times.

[Simon Curtis]

I will be, because. No. You feel that in your gut. There's.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay.

[Simon Curtis]

There's panic, there is shame.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay.

[Simon Curtis]

All of these come out of Charlotte's eyes and face in two seconds.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay?

[Simon Curtis]

And this. And you. You get to see Cynthia, like, Miranda shifts.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Simon Curtis]

Because she's so pissed. And then you see her heartbreak.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Simon Curtis]

And it's.

[Kristin Davis]

She's so good.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. I will not take this slander. No. Because it's. I'm telling you, like, you need to

[Kristin Davis]

be implanted in my brain.

[Simon Curtis]

No, I'm. I will, because it's.

[Kristin Davis]

You're so sweet.

[Simon Curtis]

This season is Charlotte's greatest hits.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay, so let me ask you this. Let me ask you this about Charlotte. Okay? So this, this, this, as I'm watching, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh, this. Oh, my God. They're all together. And my favorite. One of my favorite scenes, which I fondly remember and did live up to my memories of it, is when I'm practicing my Mandarin.

[Simon Curtis]

Yes.

[Kristin Davis]

And I'm doing my nails.

[Simon Curtis]

Yes.

[Kristin Davis]

In my vintage slip. Okay. I really remember the scene. And I hope this is. Okay, that I'm going to say this. This episode is directed by David Frankel, and David Frankel and his wife had gone through in vitro, and he was one of a big. A big, big influence on how I did things. Because he had a lot of thoughts and feelings and, you know, they have two beautiful children and it all worked out, but it had been hard. Right. And he would talk to me a lot about it, which was helpful because I didn't have a lot of friends at that point who. Who had gone through it was still

[Simon Curtis]

a relatively new thing.

[Kristin Davis]

It was. It was a big deal.

[Simon Curtis]

It was a very big deal.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. So when, you know, when I'm telling Trey, like, oh, this person, that person in our building, and he's like, what did you do? Put up a memo, you know, because there was no shame. Right. About it, which is kind of adorable, but. And now I feel like a lot of that shame is gone. Thank God. But I think for Charlotte, too, because Charlotte wants to be perfect at everything. And so it's hard, you know. And also in vitro, as much as it's really commonly discussed, it is a hard thing to go through.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, yes.

[Kristin Davis]

Like, it's not easy. It makes you feel like you're a lunatic when you're on.

[Simon Curtis]

All those hormones play so well from the moment. Opens with the shot in the butt. It's just this manic, hyped up and it's so subtle because somebody could have taken that to a place of ridiculousness. And you did. It was pitch.

[Kristin Davis]

Because I'm. Sometimes I. Sometimes I'm not sure. First of all, I do want to say that's not my butt. I definitely drew the line. I was like, I am not going to stand there with a close up on my butt while you're pretending to put a needle in it that it would be. No. And I can. I can so totally tell because it's not shaped right, but whatever, it's cool. It's very nice. It's very nice. It's nicer than mine anyway. That made me laugh. But like, when I like the. The. I had forgotten about the. The. The. The. The. The. The fling. The Scottish fling. Oh, my God. Like, I'm not sure if I was crazy enough or whatever. I did really like how I played the scene where Franny Bunny tells me it's perfect that she does not appreciate Mandarin food.

[Simon Curtis]

The devastation on your face.

[Kristin Davis]

And I also felt it all over again. Like, how dare she it.

[Simon Curtis]

There's so much devastation. That's what I'm saying. This, this. This chunk of episodes, it's Charlotte's greatest hits. The. The instant devastation, the betrayal. Because it's. That's like such a line to cross with like that Trey has crossed that. He's divulged that.

[Kristin Davis]

Definitely, Definitely.

[Simon Curtis]

And it's just. H. No, no, no. The. The line delivery there is. It's. It's beautiful.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, I'm so glad.

[Simon Curtis]

It's a beautiful moment. It's heartbreaking and infuriating, but your performance is stunning.

[Kristin Davis]

Good. I like that one. But then when I go in to get him out of the center of the Scottish dancing and he rips my dress, I'd remember there being so much stress about that, and Pat had had to make me that dress because we couldn't find a dress, and it had to be a specific plaid, and then he had to rip it, so we had to have multiples, so they'd had to make that for me. And I remember feeling like, this is a. Wow. Black dress. This dress is crazy. Like, it was so much plaid. Like, so much plaid. But he had to rip it. And I remember that was really stressful. But I don't know if I do that right. Like, am I mad enough? I don't know.

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, no. I watch. So I watched it again just this morning. It's perfect.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay.

[Simon Curtis]

There's no. I. I. I've. I live, eat, and breathe these episodes, and there's never. There's never been a moment where, like, that could have been adjusted.

[Kristin Davis]

Never crossed my mind. I'm glad. Because we can't go back now. We can't. I can't go back down, which is what I tell myself. But it is a lot like. And I do like the scene that I love the most. I don't know why. I love that scene where I'm doing my nails. He goes, and I try to do the Mandarin because Mandarin's very hard. Guys. I don't know if you guys have ever tried to speak Mandarin. It's very hard.

[Simon Curtis]

I took Mandarin in high school.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, my God. Well, then you're probably really good.

[Simon Curtis]

And so I. I spoke, like, survival Mandarin in high school. And as soon as I moved to la, I left Lost.

[Kristin Davis]

It's hard, man. Because it's hard to retain, because it doesn't.

[Simon Curtis]

You don't conjugate verbs. It's a whole different.

[Kristin Davis]

And the intonation is everything. You can totally change your words with the intonation. And I was trying to learn it a little bit back then, but then I ended up going to Beijing and Shanghai to do an ad thing where I had to learn it. I had to have, like, a consultant teach me because it's, like, impossible, possible. Like, my three lines. I had to have someone teach me But I love that scene because I think I had gotten from David Frankel kind of like free reign to have that scene, even though it's. It's on the paper. Like, I think he does say something like, kyle says we should adjust your hormones or whatever. But, like, he just let me do every line like crazy. Do you know what I mean?

[Simon Curtis]

But what is so funny is that in that scene after the Scottish bling, it feels so grounded.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Simon Curtis]

It's like, no.

[Kristin Davis]

Then we're back.

[Simon Curtis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Well, then we're back because. Because it's obvious that I am doing something that Trey is not involved in or whatever. It's like, sad. He's so sad. And then when he sits down and says he's exhausted, he just wants to play golf, and he wants to play golf. It's horrible. And then I'm like, why? I feel like I should be more upset, but I also feel that there is kind of like a drip, drip, drip of it. Right. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Simon Curtis]

Oh, it's perfectly paced because it ramps up. Because also, I feel like that's it. That's a dawning realization. That's a. That's not only just a rug pull. That's not only a realization of Charlotte thinking, what if I don't have a kid? Then that's Charlotte going back to, well, what if this isn't my husband?

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Simon Curtis]

Then that's Charlotte going in the nursery and being like, I've built a house of lies.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Simon Curtis]

What? What? What? How can I be here again?

[Kristin Davis]

Definitely.

[Simon Curtis]

And so I feel like you.

[Kristin Davis]

Well, I'm good then. I'm good then.

[Simon Curtis]

Okay.

[Kristin Davis]

I feel much better. Thank you, Simon. Thank you, Simon. That's good. That was the perfect description of what should interior monologue. So I feel really good. All right, everyone, on Arya with Charlotte. We are going to take a break and we will be back with more Simon Curtis as the week continues. Thanks for joining us. Hey, listeners. Aleve has a question for you. Do you remember what it felt like when your body pain didn't take over your day? You'd twist a lid, type a text, or bend your elbow without even thinking about it. Well, that feeling didn't go anywhere, thanks to Aleve. With just one dose, Aleve targets pain at the source of inflammation for up to 12 hours of body pain relief. Because when your pain fades, something else comes back. You feel the relief. Feel Aleve use as directed for minor aches and pains.

[Simon Curtis]

Oregon this is our home. From its wide Pacific shore to its majestic peaks. And open desert. This state has it all. But one careless spark could take all of this away. Whether you're at home, at play or on the job, the power and responsibility of Wildfire is in your hands. Please keep Oregon Green

[Kristin Davis]

While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup, Hyundai has its eye on the next generation of talent. The future stars who are already turning heads at age 14. Because next doesn't wait for an invitation. And Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach. Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle and by engineering EVs with ultra fast charging capability. And Hyundai continues doing it every day because the future isn't some far off concept. It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA.

[Simon Curtis]

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[Kristin Davis]

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