beTREYal with Jenny Bicks... (S3 E16 "Frenemies")

Summary

Are You A Charlotte? – “beTREYal with Jenny Bicks...”
Podcast by iHeartPodcasts
Airdate: February 23, 2026
Episode: S3 E16 “Frenemies”

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Episode Overview

This episode of “Are You A Charlotte?” delves into Sex and the City Season 3, Episode 16, “Frenemies,” with special guest and episode writer Jenny Bicks. Hosted by Kristin Davis (Charlotte York), the discussion offers a vibrant behind-the-scenes look at the creative processes, memorable storylines, and the layered female friendships that made the episode iconic. The conversation is candid and warm, weaving in reflection, untold anecdotes, and show lore—particularly around language and the depiction of female relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Rewatching “Frenemies” & Character Dynamics

[03:52–06:14]

• The group expresses excitement at revisiting “Frenemies,” highlighting the episode’s complexity and emotional stakes.
• Jenny Bicks recalls being nervous about her on-screen cameo and surprised by how densely packed the episode is.

"I did not remember that that was this episode at all." — Jenny Bicks, [04:11]

• The central theme is the girls confronting conflict head-on, a rarity within the show’s usual dynamic of harmonious support.
• The writers reflect on how the episode pushed the four women into direct conflict, especially Charlotte and Samantha.

"We really explore the relationships between the girls…put them up against each other, which is rare." — Michael Patrick King, [06:12]

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The Origin of “Frenemy”

[06:45–08:31]

• A lively discussion about whether the writers coined the term “frenemy.” They recall hearing it for the first time in the writer's room from Darren Star.

"When that word was brought up in the writers room, we were stunned. Brilliant word." — Michael Patrick King, [08:11]

• Comparison to other milestones, like early uses of “Google as a verb.”

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Behind-the-Scenes: The Writer’s Room & HBO’s Influence

[08:31–10:49], [40:24–49:54]

• Deliberate avoidance of soap opera tropes—the writers never wanted the show to be about women fighting over a man. The conflict was always rooted in deeper relational themes.
• HBO’s notes and influence: The network was adamant the women could discuss men but not overtly compete for them.
• Recollection of storyline-source stories, such as a real-life doorman standing up a date, which inspired bits for Carrie and Miranda’s narrative.

"We wanted the women to be, even if they might disagree, united… We're never going to fight over a guy, meaning who gets the guy." — Michael Patrick King, [10:09]

• Writing process: Story arcs mapped for each character at the season’s start; episode assignments organically fit to writers’ strengths or personal experience.

"We wanted people to write what they could feel." — Michael Patrick King, [43:38]

• Jenny and Michael reflect on the benefits of HBO’s minimal interference and the trust placed in creative voices, a rarity nowadays.

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Charlotte & Trey: Sexuality, Repression, and Growth

[13:00–17:41], [20:25–21:08], [26:21–28:08]

• The panel discusses Charlotte’s attempt to revitalize her marriage’s sex life—a storyline emotionally and comically charged.
• Bicks was proud of the scene with Trey, citing its cultural afterlife as memes and fashion inspiration.
• The difficulty for Charlotte in broaching sexual topics and Trey's unwillingness to talk about their intimacy issues are central.

"It's not exactly Charlotte's forte to discuss difficult things… watching them, it's the perfect conflict." — Jenny Bicks, [04:39]

• The writers are proud that the show explored female sexual pleasure and emotional rejection with such sincerity—groundbreaking for TV at the time.

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Female Friendship: Conflict, Reconciliation, & Complexity

[17:41–19:39], [28:08–30:51], [31:07–35:13]

• Key scenes include Charlotte fighting with Samantha (over their differing attitudes toward sex), Charlotte’s nostalgia and discomfort with old sorority friends, and the tender reconciliation with Samantha.

"You make friends in your 30s, 40s, 50s… they’re not 100% of who you are, but represent a part." — Michael Patrick King, [29:27]

• Samantha’s storyline echoes Charlotte’s: both confront boundaries and realize they share more than they think.
• The actors and writers agree: authentic conflict makes the friendships richer and more realistic.

"It makes the relationship so much more real because there are conflicts. If you stay in those relationships, there's going to be conflicts and then you're going to get over it." — Jenny Bicks, [30:51]

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Carrie & Miranda: Shades of Friendship, Rejection, and “Guy Fights”

[11:09–15:04], [31:07–35:13]

• Miranda’s dates take a darkly comedic turn as her would-be suitor is revealed to be dead, inspired by a real-life incident in the writer’s room.
• Subplots examine singlehood, standing up, and growing older; Carrie’s storyline about speaking to single women interweaves with themes of wisdom and loneliness.
• The “no fighting over a guy” rule surfaces when Miranda dates one of Carrie’s exes, but the show resists cliché, steering the disagreement toward character rather than rivalry.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

Scene Fashion Inspo

[17:52–18:37]

• Jenny Bicks recounts how Charlotte’s sorority scene outfit inspired a real-life fashion show’s concept decades later.

Silent Applause

[19:54–19:56]

• Jenny: "You gave yourself some silent applause."
• Jenny: "Yeah, totally. Totally. And I'm very, very happy with the Trey scene. Which I had remembered being happy with it. But now I see it in so many tiny splits, you know, tiny memes, that I hadn't seen the whole thing. And I was like, no, no, it's really good."

On Samantha’s Over-the-Top Bravery

[29:33–29:38]

• Jenny: "That blowjob scene is so kind of crazy. And like over the top and the table going up and down. Oh my God, the restaurant is really noticing."

Character In-real-life Parallels

[34:05–34:49]

• Michael: "This guy was kind of based on a guy that I had dated. … Those guys can be very charming. You think maybe the guy has changed, but Carrie knows better."

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Notable Timestamps for Important Segments

• Rewatch & Episode Setup: [03:11–06:14]
• “Frenemy” Origin and Language: [06:45–08:31]
• HBO’s Influence on Female Unity: [08:31–10:49]
• Carrie & Miranda’s Story Source: [11:31–13:48]
• Charlotte's Sexual Awakening & Marriage Struggles: [13:00–17:41]
• Fashion Inspiration and Sorority Brunch Story: [17:47–18:37], [26:21–28:08]
• Charlotte/Samantha Conflict and Reunion: [26:21–30:51]
• Carrie & Miranda: Ex-boyfriend Dilemma: [31:07–35:13]
• Writer’s Room Process & HBO Relationship: [40:24–49:54]

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Thematic “Hot Takes”

• Kristin’s “Hyundai Hot Take” [20:18–21:08]:
  • Charlotte’s arc in “Frenemies” stands out for its emotional complexity, humor, fashion, and depth: “Between seeing her sorority sisters, trying to show her husband Trey that she's a sexual being…fighting with Samantha and then making up with Samantha…I’d forgotten most of this except for the scene with Trey, which I do love…I'm gonna have to say Charlotte's overall storyline.”

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Language, Tone, and Lasting Impact

• The conversation is lively, self-deprecating, and permeated with affection for the material. Hosts slip into their characters’ shoes and discuss how unique the show’s approach to female friendships, language, and authenticity was—and still is.
• They share a deep pride in writing and enacting storylines that helped normalize conversations about female pleasure, relational honesty, and women’s emotional journeys.
• The episode concludes with a tease for a possible Part Two, underscoring the abundance of rich material.

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For New Listeners & Fans

This episode is a loving, insightful exploration of what made “Frenemies” a high point of Sex and the City, revealing how tight plotting, personal storytelling, and boundary-breaking writing fused for television that still resonates. It’s a must-hear for anyone obsessed with the show’s creative legacy or anyone fascinated by how beloved TV reflects and changes culture.

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Transcript

[Michael Patrick King]

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[Jenny Biggs]

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[Kristen Davis]

Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi, everybody. Welcome to Are you a Charlotte?

[Jenny Biggs]

Today, Fun.

[Kristen Davis]

She is returning the fantastic writer, Jenny Biggs.

[Jenny Biggs]

She wrote the incredible episode Frenemies, which

[Kristen Davis]

aired on October 1st in the year 2000.

[Jenny Biggs]

So we're gonna rewatch with Jenny and

[Kristen Davis]

hear all of her reminiscing and talk

[Jenny Biggs]

about the process in the writer's room.

[Kristen Davis]

So enjoy everyone. Thanks for joining us.

[Jenny Biggs]

We're here. We're talking to Jenny Biggs about Frenemies.

[Michael Patrick King]

We're talking about Frenem enemies, which is,

[Jenny Biggs]

like, such an incredible episode. I'm so thrilled that I have you to talk to about it.

[Michael Patrick King]

I can't believe, like, I. I was so pleased to rewatch it because I'm really proud of it. Like, it's amazing, a really good episode. But let's talk about you. In that episode.

[Jenny Biggs]

I was dying. I did not remember that that was this episode at all.

[Michael Patrick King]

I hadn't remembered that either. I was like, yes, girl, you go, like.

[Jenny Biggs]

But also, you wrote it, so, yes,

[Michael Patrick King]

girl, you go, ok, let's both go. But I did not have to do a scene on camera.

[Jenny Biggs]

Oh, I was panicked. So panicked. So nervous about that scene.

[Michael Patrick King]

Fantastically. Thank you.

[Jenny Biggs]

I am happy. It's one of those ones. Thank goodness. And I mean, it lives on in memes and whatnot. Right. But it is really great within the episode, you know, to see it in its full context and also watching them in order and. Cause I couldn't really remember what happened with Trey. I mean, I vaguely knew, but, like, seeing every episode again is super fascinating because, of course, you know, they're so hampered by the fact that they won't talk it out. That's like their central problem, really, is that they aren't open to, you know, he's really not open to discussing and going to therapy and doing all the things you would do. So she's gotta, like, what if I do this? What if I do that? And it's not exactly Charlotte's forte to discuss difficult things, you know.

[Michael Patrick King]

No, that's. She's got a lot of strengths, but that.

[Jenny Biggs]

That's not. Totally, totally, totally. So it's perfect in a way. To watch them. Like it's the perfect conflict that you guys created. Because of course, he is so incredible and gorgeous and all of the things. And then who. It's just frustrating to watch.

[Kristen Davis]

So.

[Jenny Biggs]

And then I was like, wait, is this also. I didn't remember that. This is when I am the Samantha of my old, you know, sorority group. I didn't remember. Frenemies is packed with action, packed with

[Michael Patrick King]

action, packed with theme. Every character has such. Like, I, here's why I kind of really love it is the, like, we really explore the relationships between the girls. Like we put them up against each

[Jenny Biggs]

other, which is rare.

[Michael Patrick King]

Really rare. Hence or part of why we use that title. And it's like, wow, they're really having to. They're. They're not messing around. Like that coffee shop scene where you and Samantha get. And then, you know, Carrie, Miranda are some of the best eyework, by the way.

[Jenny Biggs]

So great the eye work. Incredible. Incredible. Also I was dying. I wanted to cover my face when

[Kristen Davis]

I was watching it.

[Jenny Biggs]

Didn't remember that either.

[Kristen Davis]

But then.

[Jenny Biggs]

Okay, so I have so many questions. First of all, where did the. Was frenemies in the. The cultural lexicon at this point or no.

[Bowen Yang]

No.

[Michael Patrick King]

So here's what's interesting. I trying to figure out, discern whether we. There. There's a version of this where we came up with that word.

[Shelly Rome]

Right.

[Jenny Biggs]

But I don't know.

[Michael Patrick King]

I never. What I do remember for sure is when I think Darren walked in and said this word and we were like, this is a brilliant word. We. We none of us had heard the word before, so we certainly had never heard it. So I don't know where it came from, but it was not in the universe.

[Jenny Biggs]

Right?

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah, it's a great word. Right?

[Jenny Biggs]

It's a great word.

[Michael Patrick King]

Part of all of our lexicon. But at the time, it was a word we'd never heard in the writer's room. And so anytime you bring a word like that to writers, we're like, yes.

[Jenny Biggs]

And yeah, yeah, it's a great, great word.

[Michael Patrick King]

We had never heard the word amazing.

[Jenny Biggs]

That's amazing. I mean, I wonder. We'd have to ask Darren where he heard it or if he just came up with it. But I mean, it's such a good word. You know what it reminds me of? Do you remember? It would have already happened, I think, or maybe it's coming. Do you remember when we say, did you Google him?

[Michael Patrick King]

Right, right.

[Jenny Biggs]

And I don't think it was, you know, commonly said at that point. I don't know if we Coined it. Exactly. But we definitely put it out there.

[Michael Patrick King]

Put it out there.

[Jenny Biggs]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Jenny Biggs]

I feel like it's like that it might be hard to find the actual root.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah. But I can absolutely promise you that when that word was brought up in the writers room, we were stunned. We're like, brilliant, Brilliant word. And it became the basis of it just, it fed so fantastically into the stories that we wanted to tell for each of the characters at that point in their journey that season.

[Jenny Biggs]

Absolutely. Now, is this the episode? This is what I remember, and I don't know if it's accurate that when the Miranda Carey storyline came up, where they were kind of, you know, hashing out, should Miranda date someone that Carrie had previously dated, and they discuss it very much head on, was that something that HBO had something to say about? Do you remember this?

[Michael Patrick King]

No.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay.

[Jenny Biggs]

Because I, I, it's either this episode or one before where we kind of cut it, but there was something where at some point they were supposed to kind of argue about a guy. And Carolyn Strauss, I believe, said, you know, we cannot argue about a guy. We can discuss a guy. Right. Like, but they need to be on the same team.

[Michael Patrick King]

That's interesting. I wonder. It rings more of a bell for me when they were fighting about Baryshnikov, the one that was sitting on the street, that, that was a very intense moment because we hadn't had them fight. And that, that was a discussion that we did have with hbo.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it. Maybe that's what I'm thinking of. That's later, though.

[Michael Patrick King]

That is much later.

[Jenny Biggs]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

Interesting season.

[Michael Patrick King]

Later. So I don't remember having that specific discussion, but I know that we often were aware that we didn't want, we did not want this to be a show about, I want this guy. No, you want this guy. You know.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. No.

[Michael Patrick King]

You know, there was no show about.

[Kristen Davis]

No.

[Michael Patrick King]

Or whatever. The opposite.

[Jenny Biggs]

I don't, I don't even know what the proper term is.

[Michael Patrick King]

I don't know.

[Jenny Biggs]

I totally know what you mean. But I mean, and I think that was an important thing because we are dealing with relationships. And anytime a show is dealing with relationships, you can kind of slide into the soap opera ness of it. And we didn't, we didn't want that. And we wanted the women to be, even if they might disagree, united in terms of, we're on each other's side. We're never going to fight over a guy, meaning who gets the guy.

[Michael Patrick King]

Right. We can have opinions about whether a guy. And certainly we had those fights all the time. Time about big.

[Jenny Biggs]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

And there were some of the characters who were pro big and some that weren't and some that were pro at certain times. Whatever.

[Jenny Biggs]

Right, right, right, right.

[Michael Patrick King]

Never going to be. I want this guy.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Jenny Biggs]

Thank goodness. Thank goodness. I mean, it's funny too. Like, this is one of those episodes where if you had said to me frenemies, I would have thought I remembered the whole thing. But I never would have placed these different scenes together all in one episode. It's so many important scenes for all of us.

[Michael Patrick King]

And it's interesting. When I was rewatching it, I was reminded that Carrie's main storyline, which is that she's going to do the talk to the single women and how that goes and are we getting older and wiser or just older, is quite different than the frenemies theme that we're dealing with throughout the rest of the episode. Right?

[Jenny Biggs]

So true.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

But. But sometimes we would be able to do that, which makes it more fun. Like you story where you have Moran, you know, they're trying to figure out where this guy is and turns out he's dead, which is crazy and funny and bizarre. But it becomes about her being a single Carrie being a single woman and trying to explain that at the same time that we're dealing with, you know, her Miranda, not knowing where her date is and what is it like to get older and not know how to deal with being stood up, which is really where that storyline started from, because we were talking in the room about, like, how. How different ways that people get stood up. And I do remember Cindy Shupak was telling this story. And I don't mean to take her story, but I give her all of this because crazy New York stories about how she was waiting for her date to come pick her up in a New York apartment building with a doorman. And the doorman rang up to say, like, oh, your date's coming to pick you up. And. And the doorman called up and said, your date's not coming up. She said, oh, I'll come down. And she said, no. He said, no, your date's not ever coming up. Like, I had used the doorman to stand Cindy up. Oh, my God. Which was fantastic. And by the way, this was what was great about writing on a show like this when we were all single, which is, what a shitty story. But it becomes like a great jump.

[Jenny Biggs]

Incredible. But also, like, what was going on with that man that he thought, I'm going to go to her address and have a conversation with the doorman. Really odd. Really, really odd.

[Michael Patrick King]

Also, remember this was before cell phones were like a really big thing. Although interesting. Also re. Watching this episode is the first time and only time. So Miranda says when she meets the. The asshole, right here's. Or no, I'm sorry. She has. She. She says to someone, my cell phone numbers on the back of my card.

[Jenny Biggs]

It's the guy. Yeah, it's the guy.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. At the wake, right?

[Michael Patrick King]

So she has a cell phone. Like, what?

[Jenny Biggs]

I know, but we've never seen it. Oh, my God, I didn't even think of that. And she's also so giggly and kind of like weirdly needy, which is like, that's my cell phone and my email. And like, it's such a funny moment. Such a phone.

[Michael Patrick King]

Because she's been stood up. But what we determined in that room discussion was the only time it would be okay to be stood up that way would be if your date literally had died.

[Kristen Davis]

I mean. Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

And that became the story of which

[Jenny Biggs]

I love so much. But when they're walking up and Carrie says it's an open casket. I've never seen a dead body. I mean, there's like. There's so much subtext and like death and darkness and I. It was deep.

[Michael Patrick King]

It was deep. And. And it's also about rebirth. I mean, it's about. You know, Shakespeare called the orgasm. The little death. Of course, you know. And we are to assume that Charlotte achieved what she wanted.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, no, come on.

[Jenny Biggs]

In a minute and a half. Or when. When she's trying to entice him.

[Michael Patrick King]

I don't.

[Jenny Biggs]

I don't think she did.

[Kristen Davis]

Jenny.

[Michael Patrick King]

Conversation with Samantha. Samantha at the very end, you can see she's like. She says, did you. Did you come?

[Jenny Biggs]

It's true. You know, I giggle.

[Michael Patrick King]

She got. Was positive.

[Jenny Biggs]

Really. I mean, look, I think it's a huge accomplishment because at this point, the fact that it is ongoingly not happening for them is horrible.

[Michael Patrick King]

Awful.

[Jenny Biggs]

I didn't really remember this. I. I don't. I mean, obviously I was trying to do it well and everything, but, like, I also just don't have a ton

[Kristen Davis]

of experience with this.

[Jenny Biggs]

And certainly I've never been married. Right? So like, that's a next level. And I've never been so focused on getting married like Charlotte was. And like, obviously really gonna try. But then on the other hand, that man won't talk at all.

[Kristen Davis]

Like, oh, my gosh.

[Michael Patrick King]

And he talked in I good time writing the. Because I grew up sailing. And so I had a good time writing all of the metaphors. That he had for sailing. As it applies to sex.

[Jenny Biggs]

Yes, he enjoys that also, I think Kyle, he gets a twinkle in his eye when he has.

[Michael Patrick King]

Them were so adorable as a couple. Like, that's the other thing I was reminded of. And that was part of the problem, right, is that Charlotte saw them as this perfect cup. They looked like the perfect couple. They appeared, in essence, to be right for each other. But in the. The basic. In the bedroom. No.

[Jenny Biggs]

Which is awful.

[Michael Patrick King]

He would not talk about it. And so for her to get up there and really say what she says to him, the physicality aside, like, that's a really big deal for Charlotte.

[Jenny Biggs]

Oh, I agree.

[Kristen Davis]

I agree.

[Jenny Biggs]

And I was very, like, scared. Like, scared and stressed. And I remember being so stressed about what I was going to wear, and

[Kristen Davis]

I had forgotten about the scene that

[Jenny Biggs]

I'm shopping with Carrie at, like, kind of a tacky shop, and I'm holding up those crazy things and. And she's trying to make jokes about it, you know, but obviously I'm quite tense, you know, about the whole thing. And I'm trying to say, like, no, this is important. I have to show him that I'm not the Madonna. And then she's like, but you don't wanna be the whore. You know, she's making jokes. But, like, it's. It's so serious for Charlotte.

[Michael Patrick King]

Oh, it's hugely serious. She's trying so hard. And I like, also that we didn't shy away from the fact that it wasn't just that she felt rejected by Trey, but also that she was a sexual human being. So that absolute. She deserved to have pleasure and she deserved to have that attention. So that's a whole other level of story about a couple who's not getting it on. It's not just, I'm annoyed by this. It's like I feel sexually rejected and I deserve. And I want more.

[Kristen Davis]

Absolutely.

[Jenny Biggs]

Absolutely.

[Michael Patrick King]

It's kind of a watershed moment for her.

[Jenny Biggs]

Oh, it's incredible. It's incredible. And I mean, I was so happy to see it again in the whole episode. I mean, obviously, I also have so much else that is going on. Like, I go to the. To the brunch with the sorority girls because I fought with cement. Like, I. I didn't remember that. This was literally one episode. It is amazing how much you guys could do in one episode.

[Michael Patrick King]

I totally forgot about the sorority sisters. Like, I honestly. And I wrote it and I forgot about it.

[Jenny Biggs]

The thing I love about it, I love so many things. But do you know the brand? Jacques Moon?

[Michael Patrick King]

Yes.

[Jenny Biggs]

So Simon, who is the Simone, who is the designer, asked me to do this little video for his fashion show, I guess a year ago, year and a half ago. And the scene with the sorority girls, the outfit was the inspiration for this whole video. And they had a picture of me. I had a. They wanted me to wear a tiny tank top. This is, of course, 25 years later, a tiny tank top with a sweater folded just perfectly. They had a picture, and we had to call them on the FaceTime in France to make sure that we had folded it correctly. It was, like, to the detail. And he made a sweater and embroidered my invitation on it that I open in the. In the video. And it was all inspired by that one outfit and that one scene in your episode.

[Michael Patrick King]

Amazing. I have never heard that. And that is crazy and fantastic.

[Jenny Biggs]

Exactly. And also, I was like, I'm sorry, can I please have my arms covered? Because it's 25 years ago. Like, I can't live up to this. But I also remember filming that scene because we see them together, and you set it up so brilliantly from the coffee shop with all of us, where Samantha and I fight. Which, you know, I hadn't really remembered that. And when I watched it, I was concerned that I didn't do it well enough. Like, deep enough. I don't know. I was worried. The whole thing made me nervous watching

[Michael Patrick King]

it, you know, that's so interesting because, you know, obviously, we each look at our old material in different ways and in the ways that we came into the material. Right. So you're looking at it as the actor thinking, did I portray this? I'm looking at this writer thinking, why did I need that extra joke? We didn't need. You know, why did. Why didn't we cut that?

[Jenny Biggs]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

But I don't. I feel like you did a terrific job. And you were threading so many needles in this.

[Jenny Biggs]

It's true. It's true. That. That part did. I did really. I was like, oh, okay, you did well.

[Michael Patrick King]

You gave yourself some silent applause.

[Jenny Biggs]

Yeah, totally. Totally. And I'm very, very happy with the tray scene.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Jenny Biggs]

Which I had remembered being happy with it. But now I see it in so many tiny splits, you know, tiny memes, that I hadn't seen the whole thing. And I was like, no, no, it's really good. It's really good. Of course, because he's also really, really good. He has very little to say, but we're just so connected that that's kind of the good and the bad of it.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. All right. So my Hyundai Hot take from this

[Jenny Biggs]

episode called Frenemies I'm gonna have to go with Charlotte's storyline, partly because I'd

[Kristen Davis]

forgotten about how many different things Charlotte

[Jenny Biggs]

gets to do and say and feel in this episode. Between seeing her sorority sisters trying to show her husband Trey that she's a sexual being, which was just such a beautifully written scene, and then fighting with

[Kristen Davis]

Samantha and then making up with Samantha,

[Jenny Biggs]

I had forgotten most of this except for this scene with Dre, which I do love. It is embarrassing, but I do love it. So I'm just. I'm gonna have to say Charlotte's overall storyline.

[Kristen Davis]

I love it. I love what they wrote and it

[Jenny Biggs]

was really fun to watch it.

[Kristen Davis]

That was my Hyundai hot take. Celebrating iconic moments, bold moves and unforgettable style. Just like Hyundai make every day feel epic in the all new Hyundai Palisade Hybrid the Palisade Hybrid is packed full of features, cutting edge tech up to an EPA estimated 619 miles of range on select trims and class leading interior space. The new Palisade Hybrid is redefining what it means to drive an suv. For starters, let's talk about interior space. It's class leading, which is just a fancy way of saying that the whole crew and everyone's going to be comfy. You've got seating for seven or eight passengers and yes, that available third row power seating that reclines. Game changer. There are available front and second row relaxation seats, basically a spa day on wheels and an available class exclusive blind spot view monitor that shows you a video feed of your blind spot right in the dash. How smart is that? There's even an available class exclusive built in dash cam. So whether it's a scenic drive or someone cuts you off and pretends like it didn't happen, you've got the receipts. And if you're all about the sound experience like me, the available Bose 14 speaker audio system is going to blow you away. I also love the tech forward touches like standard 100 watt USB C ports because fast charging is non negotiable these days and the standard passenger talk intercom that lets you chat with people in

[Jenny Biggs]

the back without yelling.

[Kristen Davis]

Ah moms, you know what I'm talking about. Ready to upgrade your ride? Learn more about the Hyundai palisade@hyundai USA.com Call 562-314-4603 for complete details. Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession. Are you a Charlotte listeners? You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real. I went on to ebay to look for a super special vintage jacket for Charlotte to wear to the gallery and I found the most amazing Mugler jacket

[Jenny Biggs]

and the costume department loved it and it felt so good and I still

[Kristen Davis]

have it at home.

[Jenny Biggs]

Like when you score that rare Adidas

[Kristen Davis]

collab that's lived on your mood board or the Dior saddle bag that you ripped right out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over.

[Jenny Biggs]

Yeah, those. It's about the thrill and the pursuit

[Kristen Davis]

of finding those pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity Guarantee Ebay Things people love Real Talk There's a lemon shaped toy making women text their friends at 2am saying you have to get this Meet Lem by hellonancy Every 25 seconds someone discovers it and the 15,000 plus reviews don't lie. People call it toe curling, mind blowing and so good you scream. That's exactly why it's all over social media. Don't let the cute design fool you. With 12 intensities, LEM is waterproof, whisper quiet and incredibly discreet. No noise, no awkward moments. Cute on the outside, deadly where it counts. Go to hellonancy.com that's hellonancy.com Once you try it, you'll understand.

[Bowen Yang]

This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Research with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the feeling when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness. It's for getting after life. 30 grams of protein gives you the fuel you need. It's not just for intense GY sessions, it's just for life. With the wide variety of flavors from cafe latte to cake batter, it never feels boring. It's a flavor for everyone. I personally love the peaches and cream, but maybe you're a root beer floater cinnamon roll kind of person. Premier Protein powers me to say yes to more. Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein.com or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers.

[Jenny Biggs]

So I have the scene With I have. There's so. I mean. I mean, it's a lot for Charlotte, you know, like. But fighting with Samantha, always scary. You know what I'm saying? Like, any of us disagreeing about anything, to me was always scary. But it had been coming, right? Because she does have just the opposite point of view about sex than Charlotte, which has been true since day one. And now that Charlotte is married and it's not working out, of course it brings up all of her deeper things about the meaning of sex and the meaning of all of it, which is really what she. What she says to, like, don't talk about it, like, that way. And I think that, you know, it's so fantastic that then you have me go off into, like, my past to see the sorority sisters thinking I'm gonna feel comfort. But in fact, what I feel is discomfort because I'm now the Samantha, and they're now very, like, shut down to honest conversation about sex. So then I become kind of like, I act out. And I remember filming that because I had to be slightly drunk. So I was always nervous about that.

[Michael Patrick King]

Right.

[Jenny Biggs]

And I remember the reason that I put the money in the glass is because I had to storm off and then, like, say something over my shoulder and I would throw the money. And I threw the money one time, and it landed in that.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah.

[Jenny Biggs]

Remember this?

[Michael Patrick King]

It was the perfect. I mean, couldn't have been better.

[Jenny Biggs]

It was so good.

[Michael Patrick King]

If we scripted it, we wouldn't have been able to do.

[Jenny Biggs]

I know. It was so good. It was so good. So I enjoyed that scene a lot. But I did not realize it was all in one thing. And I think traditionally what we would have had would be Charlotte like a pressure cooker, right? Like, she's not expressing her feeling. Not expressing her feeling. And then there would have been, like, a type of a thing, you know? But instead we have the Kyle scene. And then she calls Samantha, which is so nice.

[Michael Patrick King]

It's so nice. And I. I think what. I think what we did so well, if I might say so myself.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

Is. Is we took each of these because Samantha has that same journey, right? So she's sexual with this guy, and she's him all the time, and who cares? It's just for fun. But then she meets kind of her doppelganger. And. And it turns out that she's more Charlotte than she thinks thoughts. So she. She also. We push the boundaries of these women so that they can recognize that they have more in common than they think. And I think that's what happens. Like, you make friends in your 30s, you're, if you're lucky, your 40s, your 50s, whatever. And you know, they're not 100% of who you are, but they represent a part of who you are. And in this case, getting Samantha and Charlotte to recognize that they, that they have more in common than they think and that there are boundaries that their old selves maybe don't want to go to. And that's been because they're impacted by this other person who's, you know, they could not be more opposite, but they're really sharing a lot more than they realized. And I think absolutely such a cool thing to look at with friendships. And it was fun. I mean, that, you know, that blowjob scene is so kind of crazy. And like over the top and the table going up and down. Oh my God, the restaurant is really noticing.

[Jenny Biggs]

Yeah, that was a lot. That was a lot. But you have to go a lot to Samantha. Samantha.

[Michael Patrick King]

You have to. And even Samantha says, okay, that's more than I can handle. And so that's her moment where a little bit of Charlotte has gotten into her. And as I'm sure you've talked about on this podcast, but we've talked about all the time, is kind of, you know, how much of you is Charlotte? How much of you is Samantha? Each person has different levels of who they, which character they are.

[Shelly Rome]

Are.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah, they both have parts of, of each other in them and Absolutely. Really sweet.

[Jenny Biggs]

I think it's so, so, so sweet. And also. So I think people forget about that because people still say to me, like, would you. And, you know, Charlotte and Samantha would ever be friends? I'm like, sure they would. You can't just be friends with people like yourselves. Exactly. Or whatever. It's boring.

[Michael Patrick King]

Like, why you grow up and you, you in different phases of your life, you collect people who are more like what you need at that time in your life. And I think this is exactly who Charlotte needed. Yes. In that, like, because look, Carrie was hiding behind her menu. You know, she's not that straight ahead sex talk.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

You needed to hear from Samantha the hard truth. And you know, it is hard. It's hard when the girls fight.

[Jenny Biggs]

It is. It's scary when the girls fight. But I think that's also. It makes the relationship so much more real because there are conflicts. If you stay in those relationships, there's going to be conflicts and then you're going to get over it. Let's talk about Carrie and Miranda, because also they fight more than I realize when I'm Rewatching.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Jenny Biggs]

And fight's the wrong word. They disagree more than I realize. And they'll have weird. Like in the first season. Is it the first season or the second where Carrie stands her up.

[Michael Patrick King]

Up.

[Jenny Biggs]

You know, stands Miranda up for big. And then. And then you. She calls someone and you think she's calling big, but she calls Miranda. And you go. And she's sitting there and they make up. It is so sweet. Like, there's so.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Jenny Biggs]

There's so many, like, kind of ups and downs and hills and, you know, their walk and talks are always so fascinating. I love their relationship more than I even ever realized that. I love their relationship and I love the complexities of it, you know, and that they really like. Miranda tells it like it is to Carrie more so than anyone else, you know, which I love so much. And I love this one because I don't remember another time where Carrie is like. I mean, obviously Carrie has dated the guy before eight years ago. And now they meet him at the wake and Miranda is feeling all rejected because she was stood up by the dead guy. I mean, it's so much. It's so much to even retell, hearing it out loud.

[Michael Patrick King]

It's a lot. It is.

[Jenny Biggs]

It's incredible. Like. And so it go. It moves so quick. Like, you guys just did such a tremendous job, you know. But then. And Carrie's like, no, no, don't go out with him. Like, it's so rare for her to even. Like, it's. It's a very rare thing. Usually she's like, yeah, you know. You know, see what it is, or whatever. You know what I'm saying? She's usually more kind of casual, happy, go lucky or whatever about it. But since she's going out with this guy and he was mean to her, like, belittling, as we see later. Like a very kind of, like, belittling, you know. Misogynistic. Yeah, exactly. But it's super fascinating. And then I just love the scene where they find. So Miranda likes him because, of course, she's just wanting to feel, you know, good and whatnot. And they go out and she talks Carrie into going for drinks. And they go for drinks. And then, of course, it doesn't take much for that asshole to come out. And then right away, like, maybe the third comment, Miranda's like, well, you know, Carrie's not a. What does he say she is. It was something that she was.

[Michael Patrick King]

Oh, God. I just. I just rewatched it.

[Jenny Biggs]

We just rewatched it, and I can't remember now, but it's so well written because they're. Miranda's trying to make the best of it, right? And Carrie's, like, trying to reserve judgment. Like, I'm just gonna sit here. And he starts out, okay. Like, there's a couple little things like, oh, she loves her shoes, you know. And, oh, Miranda says, did you go see his band? And she's like, no, I never did. And he goes, well, she was too busy. But buying shoes, that's the first little dig, right? And she goes, oh, I do. I love my shoes. And you can just see her like, what is he doing? And then he just keeps going. And then Miranda's like, well, you are an. And I just love when they're back together. You know what I'm saying?

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah. And they. It doesn't take much. It doesn't take.

[Kristen Davis]

No, no.

[Jenny Biggs]

And that was good. That's. As it should be.

[Michael Patrick King]

As it should be. Yes. You had to have that little journey. She had to have the moment of. And by the way, that's the thing with these kind of. And. And this guy was kind of based on a guy that I had dated.

[Jenny Biggs]

I was wondering.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah. Who was an. And continues kind of to be an. Those guys can be very charming. And so she goes on a date with him. And it's a lovely date. Like, they close the bar, you know, he kisses her good night. It's romantic, the whole thing. And she's like, you know, as an audience, you're thinking maybe the guy has changed. Like, yeah, great, great. But Carrie knows better. Or at least in this case, she knew better. And. And I think what's good too, is that you think maybe for a second, oh, she doesn't want her to date him because she dated him. Then you realize, no, no, no, she was right. He's just an. Because people. Absolutely certain people like that don't change. Like, they agree.

[Jenny Biggs]

He's very recognizable to me.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah, we've all had one or two of these people in our life. Hopefully people are no longer in our lives.

[Jenny Biggs]

Definitely.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah. But that is a type and it's a. Certainly a guy that uses his charm. You know, it's a charm offensive. And it's just offensive. Which, by the way, that would have been a line we would have written in the. In this episode.

[Jenny Biggs]

So good. So good.

[Kristen Davis]

Make every day feel epic in the all new Hyundai Palisade Hybrid. The Palisade Hybrid is packed with full of features, cutting edge tech, up to an EPA estimated 619 miles of range on select trims and class leading Interior space. The new Palisade hybrid is redefining what it means to drive an suv. For starters, let's talk about interior space. It's class leading, which is just a fancy way of saying that the whole crew and everyone's going to be comfy. You've got seating for seven or eight passengers and yes, that available third row power seating that reclines. Game changer. There are available front and second row relaxation seats, basically a spa day on wheels. And an available class exclusive blind spot view monitor that shows you a video feed of your blind spot right in the dash. How smart is that? There's even an available class exclusive built in dash cam. So whether it's a scenic drive or someone cuts you off and pretends like it didn't happen, you've got the receipts. And if you're all about the sound experience like me, the available Bose 14 speaker audio system is going to blow you away. I also love the tech forward touches like standard 100 watt USB C ports because fast charging is non negotiable. These and the standard passenger talk intercom that lets you chat with people in

[Jenny Biggs]

the back without yelling.

[Kristen Davis]

Ah moms, you know what I'm talking about. Ready to upgrade your ride? Learn more about the Hyundai [e-mail] Call 562-314-4603 for complete details. Before all the algorithm fed, blah blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession. Are you a Charlotte listeners? You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real. I went on to ebay to look for a super special vintage jacket for Charlotte to wear to the gallery and I found the most amazing Mugler jacket

[Jenny Biggs]

and the costume department loved it and it felt so good and I still

[Kristen Davis]

have it at home.

[Jenny Biggs]

Like when you score that rare Adidas

[Kristen Davis]

collab that's lived on your mood board or the Dior saddle bag that you ripped right out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over.

[Jenny Biggs]

Yeah those. It's about the thrill and the pursuit

[Kristen Davis]

of finding those pieces that feel like like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee eBay things people love Stop if you know what the rose is. This is for you. And if you don't, listen closer Meet Lem by hello Nancy. Yes, it looks like a Lemon. But it's anything but innocent. Every 25 seconds, someone discovers Lem. With 15,000 plus reviews and a 4.7 star rating, women call it toe curling and mind blowing. One said she screamed. Another said, you liberated me.

[Michael Patrick King]

Wow.

[Kristen Davis]

It's whisper quiet and completely discreet. So no one hears a thing and no one knows what it is. Go to hellonancy.com that's hellonancy.com Once you try it, you'll understand. Good pleasure, done really well.

[Bowen Yang]

This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Resource with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the feeling when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calor, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make. It's not just for fitness. It's for getting after life. The 30 grams of protein gives you the fuel you need. It's not just for intense gym sessions. It's just for life. With the wide variety of flavors, from cafe latte to cake batter, it never feels boring. It's a flavor for everyone. I personally love the peaches and cream, but maybe you're a root beer floater, cinnamon roll kind of person. Premier Protein powers me to say yes. Yes to more. Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein.com or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers.

[Jenny Biggs]

Can you take me through? I don't think I've ever asked you. I've had Cindy on, I've had Michael on. I don't think I ever asked. Like, I would love to just give everyone and myself too. Sometimes I wonder in the past a breakdown of how it went for the process of you, like, how did you get assigned which episodes within the season and how much advance did you know? Like, oh, okay, I'm writing that one and this is the theme or, you know, breaking the stories. How what's the process like? Or what was it like for Sex and City?

[Michael Patrick King]

So it pretty much stayed the same season to season, even as we got one or two more writers. But what we would do is we would talk at the beginning of the season about what we really wanted the arcs of each of these characters to be. So we knew where we were starting them and we knew where we were ending them. Things could change within that, but we knew, you know, Charlotte was going to go from here to here. So by the end of the season, we want X to have happened. And then we would start to break down within it. We would talk about ideas and kind of themes that were important to touch on for each character. And then it would depend on the episode. So sometimes someone walk in with just a great story, like. Like, for instance, a woman's right to shoes. Okay. So I went to a party. I had to take my shoes off. And it really was upsetting to me, and I. It got me thinking about what would happen if someone took my shoes. Because also, when you're a small person, your shoes are a very important part of your outfit. And I wish I had known I was gonna take my shoes off. I would have worn something different.

[Jenny Biggs]

Okay.

[Michael Patrick King]

But that's when sometimes you walk in with something like that and you go, that's a great thing to have happen. How can we use that to tell a story we want to tell? Which case was Carrie and her choice to be single and to spend her money how she wants to. Right?

[Jenny Biggs]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

So it became a bigger episode around that. And in that case, because I came up with. It was my idea, I will write that episode. Sometimes it has to do with order of. You know, we would kind of start with sometimes with seniority, you know, Michael. My first episode, I would write the second episode. And then sometimes there'd be an episode that you just knew a certain person had to write. Cindy had done her crazy trampoline stuff. Not trampoline.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jenny Biggs]

High wire. Yeah, yeah. What was it called?

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah, you know, she. That in on the Hudson River.

[Jenny Biggs]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

And so she wanted to write about that. You know, about taking chances and putting yourself up in the air. Figuratively. And so. So sometimes it would be the thing that you knew that this person had to write because Thing that they really cared about thematically. Or it. Or sometimes it was, hey, it's your turn to write an episode. But nobody would ever write an episode they didn't feel really attached to. That was important to us. The people write what they. What. What they could feel. Right. When Miranda buys her house. I wrote that because I had bought my house and had gone through the exact same things.

[Jenny Biggs]

Such a good one.

[Michael Patrick King]

I love that episode.

[Kristen Davis]

Still.

[Jenny Biggs]

So great.

[Michael Patrick King]

So thrilling, too, that women now single women, now outrank single men on buying houses. No way. 25 years later, now are buying more houses more than men.

[Jenny Biggs]

Incredible.

[Michael Patrick King]

Incredible. And then you think about what Miranda went through to which is what I went through. She had keep checking the box that says single woman. Single woman.

[Jenny Biggs]

Yes. This is my life, Jenny. I know all about it.

[Michael Patrick King]

So it's it's just. It's still. Still happening. But we are. We have. We have outpaced men. Not surprising. Yeah.

[Jenny Biggs]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

So that's a long description of kind of how. How it works. Sometimes we will. Will break a lot of the episode in the room. We'll go through it and outline it and talk about what. Because you also want to make sure that each of these characters are hitting certain points in each episode that they need to hit. Right. So it might be that the episode is primarily about Charlotte not having sex with her husband and what that means, but how does that fit in with our other characters and stories we need to tell for them at the same time? And then we get to place a fun theme on top. And also the question. Right. Yeah, it was interesting because the question doesn't necessarily apply as specifically as some. Sometimes it does because the question was, are we getting older and wiser or just older?

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Jenny Biggs]

Really good question.

[Michael Patrick King]

Which applies in a lot of ways in a subliminal way to, like, friendships and learning what you have to do in a relationship. But it was really more about applying. Made literally to carry giving that speech to these women and them saying, like, well, you're still single and you're.

[Jenny Biggs]

Oh, my God, yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

Like, what do you have to teach us?

[Jenny Biggs]

I know.

[Michael Patrick King]

You don't seem any wiser. Oh, God, I'm older and single.

[Jenny Biggs]

That was scary too. There were. The whole episode. There were so many times where I

[Michael Patrick King]

was like, you know, I know. And fun fact, I'm sure, you know, noticed that Sarah Jessica stand in was in the scene.

[Jenny Biggs]

That's who it was. I was trying to figure that out.

[Michael Patrick King]

And she asked a question. We always try to give our stand ins. We're terrific. A chance to do on camera work. And that was a case where she. She got to ask a question.

[Jenny Biggs]

That's so nice. So wait, let's go back to the writer's room. Okay, so when.

[Kristen Davis]

When you.

[Jenny Biggs]

So you would get, like, you might know at the beginning of the season, like, just have it marked out, oh, I'll do episode number four, episode number eight, or whatever, like, theoretically. And you would know the arcs, as you said, which also we were so wonderfully shared, you know, that information at the beginning. And as you said, sometimes it would change. But Michael Patrick would, you know, sit us down and say, like, this is the plan. Just so that we could also kind of try to, you know, plan it out in our mind somewhat. And then sometimes when he got the script, it would be different or, you know, interesting new twist or whatever. But Then in, in terms of writing. So if you're in the room with everyone, would you do a rough draft and then take it in the room for them to read? Like, how did that part work?

[Michael Patrick King]

Yes, you would go away for all or part of a couple days usually. You know, some episodes, famously, we wrote, had to write very quickly because we just didn't have as much time. Splat was one of those where Cindy and I wrote it together and we wrote it in five days. Oh. Which. But we loved every minute of it because it was fun to write it together. And also we knew exactly what we wanted to do. But yes, you go away from the room, you tippy type at home. This is how we tippy type. It's just like a pterodactyl.

[Jenny Biggs]

Love it.

[Michael Patrick King]

And then you bring it back in and the room will read it and give thoughts and then you'll go away again. And then it would go to hbo. But you know, the thing, it's funny now looking back back, we got very few notes from hbo. They were amazingly supportive. And I wish, I wish the, the world were set up the same way to trust writers a bit more to, to know what they're doing. There's a lot of second guessing that happens. And so people end up giving, I think, a little more notes than they need to.

[Jenny Biggs]

I agree, from what I know, and I'm not a writer. Right. But I feel like because of the way that HBO was structured with Chris and Carolyn, really, there weren't that many people. And Carolyn had the good sense to just hire the right writers and let you guys do your thing, which is just so rare, you know, and you

[Michael Patrick King]

don't really don't find it anymore.

[Jenny Biggs]

You really don't. And I talked to her. I had lunch with her last week because we did the event for Sarah Jessica and it was so nice to see her. And we talked a little bit about just the fear in the industry. And fear just, just breeds everybody being so nervous and like overthinking everything. And it's hard to create or have these kind of breakout hits like how, how we were. And he did Rivalry. He did Rivalry because they went to Canada where they had no budget, but they got to do what they wanted. And then luckily Casey was like, yes, I'll buy that. Good call on Casey's part. Right. But you know, it probably wouldn't have gotten made in the way that it did if it were here with all the different tinkering.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah. And look, I also, I, I am, I'm so respectful of the fact that there are a lot of executives scared for their jobs and things, of course, all the time. And things are certainly not the way they were. And there is this sense like, I need to show my worth. But it has kind of beaten down the creative process. And it was such nirvana to, to be, I mean, in so many ways, to be in the room we were in, to be working with the actors we were working with, with, to be telling the stories we were telling. But to be left alone to do that, it was really, it made the show better. It just did.

[Kristen Davis]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Michael Patrick King]

When Carolyn did have notes, they were really smart.

[Jenny Biggs]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

And they were never about, I'm scared to do something right. Like, do we want to do that? Okay, tell me why.

[Jenny Biggs]

Right, right, right. That sounds just like her. Yeah. That's good. That's really good, you guys. This is so much fun that we are going to have to have a part two.

[Kristen Davis]

So join us later in the week on Rus Charlotte.

[Jenny Biggs]

Real Talk.

[Kristen Davis]

There's a lemon shaped toy making women text their friends at 2am saying, you have to get this. Meet Lem by Hello Nancy. Every 25 seconds someone discovers it. And the 15,000 plus reviews don't lie. People call it toe curling, mind blowing, and so good you scream. That's exactly why it's all over social media. Don't let the cute design fool you. With 12 intensities, LEM is waterproof, whisper quiet and incredibly discreet. No noise, no awkward moments. Cute on the outside, deadly where it counts. Go to hellonancy.com that's hellonancy.com once you try it, you'll understand.

[Bowen Yang]

This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture Resource with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We all know the feeling when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can feel impossible. That's why Premier protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. So they're a healthy choice you'll actually want to make make. It's not just for fitness. It's for getting after life. Premier Protein powers me to say yes to more. Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein dot com.

[Jenny Biggs]

Hey, it's Shelly Rome.

[Shelly Rome]

So working late nights on the radio gives you a lot of quiet time with your thoughts and sometimes your mind just won't slow down. I've always wondered why our minds do what they do, why they race, why we get stuck in the same loops and how we can actually work with our thoughts instead of fighting them. That's what led me to the Waking up app created by neuroscientist Sam Harris. Waking up is so much more than meditation. It blends neuroscience, philosophy and guided practices that help you really understand your mind. You learn to notice your thoughts, slow them down and gain perspective, which makes all the difference when you're really feeling overwhelmed. I use waking up after long nights to reset, feel calmer and start the day with more clarity. If the New year has you thinking about a smarter, more meaningful reset, explore Waking up free for 30 days with my link wakingup.com roam it really changes the way you think about your thoughts.

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[Shelly Rome]

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