BS Bagels with Paget Brewster... (S4 E7 "Time and Punishment")

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Are You A Charlotte?

Episode: BS Bagels with Paget Brewster... (S4 E7 "Time and Punishment")
Host: Kristin Davis
Co-host: Cynthia Nixon
Guest: Paget Brewster
Date: April 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Are You A Charlotte?, Kristin Davis and Cynthia Nixon sit down with actress Paget Brewster to discuss the iconic Sex and the City episode "Time and Punishment" (Season 4, Episode 7). The conversation dives into the episode’s themes, its impact on audiences and television, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and the staying power of classic SATC moments, most notably Charlotte’s “I choose my choice.” Alongside, the hosts and Paget explore broader issues in women’s representation in TV, the realities of acting, and personal stories from Brewster's career.

Tone: Warm, funny, enthusiastic, honest, and nostalgic.

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Key Topics & Discussion Highlights

1. The Enduring Impact of Sex and the City

[04:25 – 09:23]

• SATC’s Cultural Breakthrough: Brewster shares how the show transformed opportunities for women on TV.

  • “I think because of the success of Sex and the City, it showed executives and networks and writers that women could carry the show and do extremely well. And so I think it opened up casting for women over 35 suddenly, which is amazing and wonderful.” (Paget Brewster, 05:53)

• Networks’ Skepticism:

  • “It was shocking… there’s really no men... It was risky, and we did not know if it was going to work.” (Cynthia Nixon, 06:22)

• Differentiating SATC: Challenging industry categories—comedy, dramedy, single camera—while centering women’s experiences.

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2. When Did You Know the Show Was a Hit?

[10:13 – 14:12]

• Both Kristin and Cynthia recall doubt about broader recognition until season 3.

  • “We were very known in New York... but we didn’t feel like the world knew about us.” (Kristin Davis, 11:04)
  • “We never really expected... wide, widespread success… when they called our names [for the Emmy], we were just like, what?” (Cynthia Nixon, 12:12)

• Personal Reflections:

  • “Rewatching is really helping me to understand what we created in a different way.” (Cynthia Nixon, 13:03)
  • The comfort and warmth the show provides to viewers—and now to its own stars.

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3. Classic Lines and “I Choose My Choice”

[15:36 – 19:32]

• Paget’s Connection:

  • “I choose my choice… it’s such a great… just that sentence. I’ve said it either out loud or in my head minimum once a month, usually every week.” (Paget Brewster, 15:43)
  • The complexities: validation, armor, and internal debate reflected in such a simple phrase.

• Charlotte’s Arc & Character Complexity:

  • Davis and Nixon discuss Charlotte as more than a romantic traditionalist—someone with depth, agency, and surprising wisdom.

  • “Charlotte is not one-dimensional. There are moments where… sometimes out of Charlotte’s mouth comes the thing that is most shocking, the wisdom.” (Paget Brewster quoting the show, 19:15)

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4. Behind the Scenes: Acting and Episode Construction

[20:33 – 23:00], [26:17 - 32:04]

• Filming Realities:

  • The challenge of shooting multiple episodes and wardrobe changes. SATC shot two episodes at once, crossboarding locations (Cynthia Nixon, 21:17).

• Showrunner Insights:

  • Michael Patrick King sat cast down every season for emotional arc planning—a rare, helpful process in TV.

• Reshoots and Directing:

  • Cynthia recalls reshooting an early emotional scene after being told, “You don’t care? There’s another guy around the corner.” (Cynthia Nixon, 27:30)
  • The distinctiveness of SATC’s collaborative, supportive environment.

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5. Depth of Friendships and Realistic Female Dynamics

[32:05 – 34:38]

• Filming Arguments:

  • “Anytime any of the characters argued, it was always slightly scary, you know, because we cared so much about the friendships working… But it’s not really realistic if you don’t have arguments.” (Cynthia Nixon, 32:05)

• Accountability as Friendship:

  • “That is what actually… solidified for the audience that you guys were actual friends, is to hold each other accountable.” (Paget Brewster, 32:31)
  • Reference to “bullshit bagels” and the show’s ability to show real conflict, humor, and love.

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6. Relationships: Aidan, Big, and Carrie’s Emotional Choices

[34:38 – 37:50]

• Memorable Plot Points:

  • Carrie’s dynamic with Aidan and Big—phone calls, jealousy, and trust.
  • “When Aiden says, ‘I don’t want him calling here,’ I’m like, no, Carrie, you need to say you won’t.” (Kristin Davis, 34:16)

• Male Relationships:

  • The show’s nuanced (sometimes “suspension of disbelief”) handling when Aidan and Big eventually bond after conflict.

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7. Female Traditions and Social Commentary: “The Pubic Hair Storyline”

[37:49 – 40:49]

• Samantha’s Storyline:

  • Discussion on shifting cultural attitudes around body hair, waxing, and grooming, both in the episode and real life.
  • “We went through every phase together basically, because all of us, the writers and the actors were living through the changes.” (Cynthia Nixon, 38:44)

• Personal Anecdotes:

  • Both hosts and Brewster share horror stories about waxing, product experiments, and “beauty” pain.

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8. Women in Hollywood: Pay Equity and Career Challenges

[52:04 – 59:14]

• Paget’s “Criminal Minds” Firing and Return:

  • Details the network politics that led to her firing, return under difficult circumstances, and eventual pay parity.
  • “We were always paid less. So then, because I was like, well, I kind of have them over a barrel... I got my episode fee way up from what it was… and then the next year… I said, this is what I got. Go get more.” (Paget Brewster, 58:44)

• Advocating for Pay Parity:

  • Brewster recounts her negotiations and underscores the importance of not undervaluing one’s work, crediting her husband’s advice.

  • “We're so beaten down into thinking, well, of course we're not making as much as the men. Why would we... That's over now. I do not accept that. And I think a lot of people don't.” (Paget Brewster, 59:14)

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9. Identity, Appearance, and Aging Onscreen

[61:21 – 65:13]

• Going Gray:

  • Brewster explains her journey to wearing her hair naturally gray on TV and in life, breaking industry expectations.
  • “I started going gray when I was 28... So I'm not sexy. My husband's doing everything in his power... He's the best again.” (Paget Brewster, 62:08)
  • After the pandemic, she embraced her natural gray hair; Hollywood surprisingly accepted it: “They went to Paramount plus... the studio said, we love the gray. Wow. Which was a shock.” (Paget Brewster, 65:06)

• Industry Flexibility:

  • With modern wig technology and supportive showrunners, more appearance choices are possible for actors now.

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Notable Quotes

• Paget Brewster [on “I choose my choice”]:
  “I’ve said it either out loud or in my head minimum once a month, usually every week… in different ways, in the way that Charlotte is saying defensively, I choose my choice. And it can be armor… it can be validation…” (15:43)

• Cynthia Nixon [on realizing the show succeeded]:
  “We never really expected… wide, widespread success… when they called our names [for the Emmy]… like, what planet have we landed on?” (12:12)

• Paget Brewster [on pay disparity and parity]:
  “We were always paid less… and I was like, well, I kind of have them over a barrel… I got my episode fee way up… and then the next year… I said, this is what I got. Go get more." (58:44)

• Kristin Davis [on rewatching SATC]:
  "The warmth that you feel when you watch it is real... even for me.” (14:12)

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Memorable Moments & Segment Timestamps

• Paget fangirls over meeting Charlotte York: [04:25]
• Everyone’s memories of early “guy a week” scripts: [27:30]
• Philosophy of “accountability among women friends” in SATC: [32:31]
• Samantha and “the pubic hair years” commentary: [37:49]
• Paget’s pay parity negotiation saga: [58:38]
• Going gray as a TV actress, pandemic edition: [61:56 – 65:13]
• Paget and Kristin sharing trade secrets about wigs and aging in Hollywood: [66:17]

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Conclusion / Takeaways

This episode bridges nostalgia for Sex and the City’s heyday with frank modern conversations on feminism, authenticity, and professional tenacity. The camaraderie between Davis, Nixon, and Brewster gives listeners an intimate, enlightening view on both SATC canon (especially "I choose my choice") and the lived experience of women in entertainment—on- and off-camera.

Stay tuned for Part 2 with Paget Brewster later this week.

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Transcript

[Kristin Davis]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

Hi, I'm Kristin Davis and I want

[Kristin Davis]

to know, Are you a Charlotte? Hey everybody. Welcome back to Are you a Charlotte? Today we are rewatching Time and Punishment which is from season four, episode seven and we have a super fun guest.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Padgett Brewster is on Criminal Minds for a really, really long time and also so many other fun things. She was on Friends, she had her own talk called the Padgett Show. She has a lot of Sex and the City knowledge and she's a super fan. So enjoy. Padgett. Thank you for joining us. It's so exciting.

[Paget Brewster]

Thank you for having me. This is so exciting for me and a little scary.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, don't be scared.

[Paget Brewster]

You and the show have had such a massive impact on my life that it's like, don't meet your heroes. And I'm kind of scared. Like, but I'm so excited to be doing this. Thank you so much for asking me.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Well, we're so excited to have you. And I, I mean, I, I just, probably just start by telling us like when you say an impact on your life, like, tell us what you mean. And also like, have you also done other podcasts where you have broken down and just like that, like, I need to hear all the different things.

[Paget Brewster]

I did some friends of mine, Paul F. Tompkins and Janie Haddad Tompkins did a podcast about. And just like that and they were, it was just them at home. They would have what they call weekend water. So they would drink a little bit and do a podcast about. And just like that.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh gosh.

[Paget Brewster]

And I would listen to their podcast and be like, how do they not know about Ray? And like they were, they, they weren't remembering every. And I've watched Sex and the City every episode, every season, five times through, twice just with my husband. So it's, it's But I also think the show Sex and the City opened doors for women acting at a time when it had really gone away. And so I've been able to maintain a career for 35 years. I'm 57. When I was 32, I thought, oh, it's over.

[Kristin Davis]

It's over.

[Paget Brewster]

I spent as much money as I could. Exactly. But I think because of the success of Sex and the City, it showed executives and networks and writers that women could carry the show and do extremely well. And so I think it opened up casting for women over 35 suddenly, which

[Cynthia Nixon]

is amazing and wonderful. And I hope that it continues and could continue even more, because sometimes, from my perspective, I do remember when they were sending the script around and everyone was auditioning and whatnot, that it was shocking, right? Like, oh, my go. You know, there's really no men.

[Kristin Davis]

Right?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Like, that's how the script of the pilot looked. You know what I'm saying? As opposed to, say, Melrose or, you know, where I had been. But there were equal men and women. And it was super soapy, Right. This was a new entity, a new version of a show. And it was very risky. And we did not know. We really did not know if it was gonna work. I was talking to someone about this the other day, because I remember in the beginning, any press that wanted to talk to us, we would just be like, okay. And we didn't. Like, we would just tell them everything in the beginning because we were just so desperate to get press. Which is laugh out loud funny now. Right, of course. You know, but at the time, yeah, it was a totally different situation and different, like, world where we were in charge kind of, you know, the characters were in charge.

[Paget Brewster]

And as opposed to being on Unequal Men and Women or Mostly Male. And the women were wives, girlfriends, daughters, period. Yes. But I think in the 70s and 80s, there were a lot of female shows like Golden Girls and Golden Girls and then. But then into the 80s, designing women. But there had been Mary Tyler Moore, Rhoda. There had been all of these shows in the 70s and 80s. And it was felt like the end of the 80s, beginning in the 90s. It stopped until you guys showed up. That's a good point. There was like a dead space for about seven years, I think, where executives and networks were not doing shows primarily featuring women.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

Women were supporting.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's also about, like, who is the show for?

[Kristin Davis]

Right?

[Cynthia Nixon]

So like, like Golden Girls, Designing Women were for women. Murphy Brown for women. Right. I mean, for everyone, but for women. And in a way, where you feel like, yes, you're honored as a consumer, right? You're honored as, like, someone who wants to buy things and whatever. And we know all the statistics that women are a very powerful group of consumers. But for a while, that was kind of forgotten. And then when we came along, and this was kind of an annoying thing, but when we came along, you know, we had to really, like, fight hard in the beginning to, you know, first of all, just state what we were, right? Because people were super confused. Like, you know, are you prostitutes? Like, are you like, what's happening because of having sex in the title? And they didn't know the column, Right. So not everyone had the understanding, the basic understanding. I remember just like, literally describing, like, no, we all work. And, you know, I had someone ask me, I was wearing our hat, our first season rap hat, and they thought that I was on Real Sex, which was like that late night HBO show, right? Yeah, that was. But, you know, kind of porn, Wasn't

[Paget Brewster]

it like, not a reality show?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, no, it was like real people.

[Paget Brewster]

It was like real people and fetishes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes. Yeah, it was ahead of its time. Okay, first of all, yes, but that is not the show that we were trying to do. Right. We would have to say, like, no, it's a comedy, but then it wasn't a sitcom and there was no laugh track and there was no audience and it was single camera, but also dramedy kind of. You know, we had very dramatic. It was a whole different entity. But the other thing that I feel now, I mean, now we have had wonderful shows like Insecure. We have. I love L. A. You know, there are elements where you can say, oh, yes, I think all of those were hbo. But it didn't spawn this kind of wider revival that I expected it to spawn in terms of, like, different women's voices on shows.

[Paget Brewster]

Do you know, I felt like I was able to continue acting because of the success of Sex and the City and that there was a greater creation of roles for women that were multi dimensional and they had failings. And I have to ask you, when did you start to feel like, oh, everyone gets it now. They know what we're doing and who we are. When did you feel secure that the show was successful and everyone got it and you and you guys had put this baby out into the world and it was. And it was beloved.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah. Third season. Third season. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That late. Yeah. People laugh when I tell them. They were like, no, it was a big hit. No, I mean, it was.

[Kristin Davis]

We were very Known in New York, right?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Because we were like getting all the actors that were on Broadway and we were making a big effort. And, you know, you had Law and Order and then you had us, right? So actors knew about us, and New York City people knew about us, but we didn't feel like the world knew about us. And I don't think that we expected the world to know about us. Like, we were gonna do our best, you know, we were gonna try to. To live up to the hopes that HBO had, right. You know, we wanted to do our. Our job right, but we never really expected, like, wide, widespread success. So it was just kind of, you know, shocking and also kind of really, in some ways hard to take in. And I would say third season, because third season is when we got nominated for an Emmy. Never, never, never, never thought would happen. Like, never thought would happen because cable at that point was weird, right? Like, the Sopranos hadn't won yet. We had won our Golden Globe. And we were just like, like deer in the headlight. Like, what are we doing here? Like, literally, like, what planet have we landed on? Like, when they called our names, we were just like, what? We have to stand up in front of all this movie stars. Oh, my God. You know what I mean? Like, it was just shocking and had rained that day of the Golden Globes, so my hair is hot mess. You know, we were like little children, like, at the grown up party.

[Paget Brewster]

You know what I mean?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, my God. But then. And that was cool, right? But the Golden Globes were like their own weird entity. But we didn't really think that the Emmys, who were definitely, you know, the award for television, obviously very mainstream, we didn't expect that to ever happen, much less third season. And I remember when my. My mom called me and I was like, oh, why are you calling me so early? Cause we would work all night, right? She was calling me to tell me that we got nominated for Emmy. And I was like, you know what I mean?

[Paget Brewster]

Wait a minute. Your mother. No one. Your agent, your lawyer, she beat them.

[Cynthia Nixon]

She beat them too.

[Paget Brewster]

Your mom beat everyone to it.

[Cynthia Nixon]

She was very excited. She was very excited. You know what I mean? But yeah, she. She beat everybody to it. I did think that maybe my mom was mistaken even did, you know what I mean? Like, I was like, mom, like, what? Are you sure? And you know, this is the olden day. Flip, flop, phone, cell phone, right where I was like, oh, no, someone else is calling. I don't even know how to click over. And then I realized, oh, no, it is actually actually real. Like, what the heck? Like, it's insane. But I didn't even then, it was hard to really take it in, you know, it was hard to take it in to a lot of extent. Like, rewatching is really helping me to understand, like, what we created and in a different way. Right. Like, I loved what we did. I was, you know, extremely committed to what we were doing. Right. And I love all of our writers and all of our actors. And, you know, I've been Die Hard the whole time. Right. But sometimes when you're out in the world and people have, like, such strong, strong feelings, I would be like, whoa.

[Kristin Davis]

You know?

[Cynthia Nixon]

But now that I'm rewatching, first of all, each episode's so good.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's kind of crazy. And then second of all, like, I was traveling a bit, and I took time off from rewatching, and then I came back, and, like, the warmth that you feel when you watch it is real. You know, like, even for me, I got to kind of experience when people say, like, oh, you're my comfort watch. Oh, you're like my friends. I'm like, yeah. And obviously they are my friends, but still, I'm like, oh, I'm home and I can watch my show, you know, it's nice.

[Paget Brewster]

Oh, my God, that's great.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I didn't really fully get it before because I think I was, you know, you're just trying to move forward, too, right? And not get too stuck in the commentary. Right. Because, like, wherever there's good commentary, there's also bad commentary. And I didn't want to. I didn't want to go too, too deep into it, but now I can really, you know, 30 years later, I can really appreciate it. Yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

But there are other shows, I think, and I think you've been on all of them. Friends.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

Seinfeld.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

Sex and the City are series that you re watch and you cannot believe. Every episode you're like, wait a minute. This. This is the A, B and C story. Because in my memory.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

Each story is its own episode. Like, it was so true.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's true. That's some writing, right? I mean, some good writing like that. That's really what I come away with. It's crazy.

[Paget Brewster]

This episode that we're talking about, well, this is huge for me because I choose my choice.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, my God.

[Paget Brewster]

Classic is like, a major part of. It's in my head, I would say I've said it either out loud or in my head. Minimum once a month, usually every week. And in in different ways, in the way that Charlotte is saying defensively, I choose my choice. And it can be that, is she convincing herself or is she convincing them? And it can be armor, like, I choose my choice. It can be validation. Like that. Just that sentence. I choose my choice.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I know it's good.

[Paget Brewster]

Okay. No, I don't want to go to Larry's birthday party. I don't have to go to Larry's birthday party. And I choose my choice.

[Cynthia Nixon]

That's right.

[Paget Brewster]

I need to stay home and cook that day. That's right. And so it's like a big.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I had remembered that because I loved it, but I had not remembered the bigger picture that it's in, which is that the entire episode I'm struggling, you know, Charlotte is struggling with the decision. And also, basically all of them are like, no. Like, I had fully forgotten that.

[Kristin Davis]

You know what I'm saying?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Like, I didn't really remember in my mind. I remember a lot, but I don't always remember it chronologically correctly. Right. Like, I would have put this later, you know, like in the fifth season or something. Like, I thought it had to do with Harry or I don't know what I thought it had to do with. I remember being. I remember filming it, and I remember being very nervous about it. Like, there's some things that stand out to me because, you know, Charlotte is a very specific character, right. And she's not me. Even though I know it's very confusing and it seems like it's me. I get it. Obviously, you're an actress who's played a character for a very long time, which I want to talk about. So I'm sure you understand, but. So, like, she's a part of me, but she's not really me.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And so I live a very different life that is not so concerned with traditions, you know, and for her, for Charlotte, because these are her friends, you know, she might not have as much kind of throaty defiance or whatever to them. Do you know what I mean? So, like, my pitch is a little high, you know, and especially in the first coffee shop scene where I'm talking to them about it, and I'm like, I'm just thinking that I'm going to quit my job.

[Paget Brewster]

You know, I've noticed that. Well, because I could. And there's the pediatric unit. It is. Your voice is higher. Which is higher. Usually the sign of insecurity or lying. And so the question is, are you. You're, you're outstanding in this. I, I, I, I. You're so great. You're great in all of them. But this really is like a. I was so excited when I got the email. Watch this. And I'm like, what? I choose my choice because it, it's such a great. And. And every storyline is great. But. But it is these tropes of Miranda not relax and so much so that her neck goes out, she's shouting at you. And what is the relationship with Aidan and Carrie? And what does it mean to Charlotte to give up the gallery? And that's the tradition before we get to Harry later, which is now she chooses Judaism to be with a man she loves. And it's those traditions that then become a big. But there's Charlotte's not one dimensional. There are moments where I can't remember what episode it is where Carrie is saying, you have. Charlotte says something really profound. And there's a Carrie voiceover of Sometimes out of Charlotte's mouth comes the thing

[Cynthia Nixon]

that is most shocking, the wisdom. And then, and then you say, is

[Paget Brewster]

my hair too shiny today?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, that's first season. That's first season.

[Paget Brewster]

It was the first season.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah. That was one of my moments where I realized, and I knew in my, I felt in my gut that Charlotte had so much potential for growth and change. Right. But that little encapsulated, you know, couplet basically with Carrie and the voiceover, that was it. I was like, that is it. Thank God they get it. You know what I'm saying? Like, we can go, we can go from this, you know, and it was so much fun. Cause it's always fun with Sarah Jessica too, right? Because we know each other so well. And I love that so much because it is. You can, you can make fun of her, you know what I'm saying? Like, she is ripe for making fun of, but at the same time she's not really wrong.

[Paget Brewster]

You know?

[Cynthia Nixon]

You know what I mean?

[Paget Brewster]

And she's also earnest.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes.

[Paget Brewster]

Charlotte is so earnest that you can't argue with her reasoning. I mean, you, her friends do, right? Because they see marriage differently, individuality differently, careers differently. But yeah, I'm glad it was that early on because I also being on, I've been on this show, Criminal Minds on. I was off for four years, but I've been on it. Basically. We're shooting season 20.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Paget Brewster]

In a month. Wow. But I don't remember episodes the way fans do, right. So I remember things about episodes that you were working. You were working. You can't. There's no space in your brain. Because to make an hour long show is, you know, five to eight, 15 hour days. So.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, that's what we were doing too.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It was not.

[Paget Brewster]

Oh, I know. I heard. Oh, I heard, I heard. The wardrobe changes were. Which I appreciate as a fan. I think all of fashion appreciates the fact that. But that's a big turnaround scene by scene. You guys had to do like major.

[Cynthia Nixon]

We did. Right. It was like an hour show or like a movie every two weeks because we'd shoot two episodes at once. Do you guys do that or you're just one. Okay. Right. We had to crossboard because of locations right in the city. So we would have one director who'd be doing two. And it wasn't that bad because like they were two consecutive. So. So it wasn't that hard.

[Kristin Davis]

You know what I'm saying?

[Cynthia Nixon]

That's why it was more like shooting an hour. Right. Because even though you did have like one storyline and one and one storyline in the.

[Kristin Davis]

They were.

[Cynthia Nixon]

They did make sense together.

[Paget Brewster]

Right. They were related. So it's not like you shot 10 episodes. Like block shot 10 episodes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

No, no. That would be episode four and episode five.

[Paget Brewster]

So you least know where your character.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes, okay.

[Paget Brewster]

Yes, that makes sense.

[Kristin Davis]

You know that fantasy version of your life, the one where you wake up and the light's hitting just right and you do a 20 minute workout in your gorgeous living room and you feel like the lead in your own movie. Yeah. That's not a fantasy anymore. You can get your own reformer.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I just got one and it is

[Kristin Davis]

so beautiful and I just love it so much. And it's just right there.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It makes it so easy.

[Kristin Davis]

And you can say hello to your reformer. It basically worked out my workout problem. I was paying for studio classes and I'd cancel half the time. The parking, the scheduling. Then I saw Euroformer and my first thought wasn't even about working out. It was, wow, that's beautiful. What a beautiful piece of gorgeous furniture. And it really is, you guys. Every Reformer comes with access to over 1000 instructor led workouts on the your Reformer app, including all the tools and accessories. Your first three months on the app are free and you've got expert LED classes. Whether you're a day one beginner or a post work decompressor. They deliver across mainland USA within seven days. Just go to your reformer dot com. Hey, you reformer. Thanks for working out my workout problem. Use the code. Are youasharlotte200 for $200 off your [e-mail]. your space, your pace, your reformer. I am obsessed with Hill House Home. The brand behind the viral nap dress

[Cynthia Nixon]

with the signature smocking that's incredibly flattering,

[Kristin Davis]

unbelievably comfortable and so versatile.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I can wear the same one running errands by day and out to dinner at night. I just got one the other day from them. It's pink, it's flowy. I love it so much. You could just put on something, flip flops, whatever you want and you look

[Kristin Davis]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

Also they would have a plan every season and Michael Patrick would sit us down and tell us our plan, our emotional arc so that you knew kind of the bigger picture which was of course incredibly kind and wonderful. And I didn't realize that all shows didn't do that.

[Paget Brewster]

All shows do not do that.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

Our showrunner does that on Criminal Minds. But that just started, you know, I don't know, five, six years ago.

[Kristin Davis]

Interesting.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah. That is unusual.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right? And thank God it's so helpful as an actor, because then, you know, if something is, like, of higher importance, that, okay, I need to dig deeper for this scene. Even though I'm just mentioning something, this is a deeper thing that I desperately want, the character desperately wants. Or if maybe it's just a little minor thing. You know what I mean? And if you were just reading each script, you wouldn't know because of course, in our show also, now we're into the longer relationships. But in the beginning, there were all these guys that were just coming through. And the only time that I can remember that I had to reshoot something was from the first season very early on, like, maybe episode two or three, where it's so embarrassing. This guy wants the. It's the. I don't wanna be the Mrs. Up the butt scene.

[Paget Brewster]

Yes.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, God help us.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And so to me, I'd been in acting class for a decade, right. Or more before this. And, you know, they all talk about stakes, right? Like, your stakes have to be so high, right? Yeah. And for comedy, that's, like, strangely important, right. Because how do you get that level of behavior? Deep stakes. Right. So I was teary when I'm telling the guy, like, I don't want to do it. And Darren comes to me and he's like, you don't care? And I'm like, what? I don't care.

[Paget Brewster]

What?

[Cynthia Nixon]

What? And he goes, oh, there's another guy around the corner. And I'm like, wait, what?

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What?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Because first of all, as a person, I'm not really like that. But second of all, I didn't think Charlotte was like that. Right. Like, I thought Carrie and Samantha were, like, super cool, and there's another guy around the corner. But I thought Charlotte was, like, deep, deeply invested, and she kind of was. Right. But he was just trying to say in his mind, he knew we were gonna have a guy a week. Right? A guy, an episode. So we can't be teary about everyone.

[Paget Brewster]

Right, right, right. It's too high stakes.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

So I had to, like, back. Backpedal and reshoot something where I was just like, I don't want to do it.

[Kristin Davis]

Interesting.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right?

[Paget Brewster]

I get it. Wow. I did. That's. Thank you for telling me that. That's, like, inside. I didn't know that you reshot that.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't remember reshooting anything else that I. That. And I remember being like, you know, you're very thrown off as an actor when you have to reshoot something. You're like, oh my God, what did I do wrong? But then when he said it, I was like, oh, yeah, I was totally playing it like this guy could be my husband. And then now he's not going to because I don't want to do what he wants. Like I was doing the high stakes that I thought I was supposed to be doing.

[Paget Brewster]

You were. You were doing what you. You were doing what you were trained to do.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Exactly.

[Paget Brewster]

But in a lot. With a longer form knowledge of where Charlotte's journey was going, it would be. It would. It would appear manic.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It would appear desperate and manic.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah. Too, too desperate.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah. That would not work out every episode. And I don't think it would be funny.

[Paget Brewster]

It might be too upsetting. Profoundly upsetting that you're crying. And then when, later on when you go to the dating seminar with Carrie and Carrie's like, no, she's out there. You know, just this. That you're really looking for him. Yeah. But. But it can't be. That's a really tough. That's a really tough line to keep. Yeah. Acting.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

Flawlessly.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Which was.

[Paget Brewster]

She wants what she wants. She knows why she's. You know. And then when Trey comes along, it's. It's the night and shining arm. It's the answer to all the. And she's so invested in it, ready to go. And. And it was. And it falls apart. But you can't be so desperate that you're. I don't want to be the. Like that's the end of your romantic journey, but that's a very, very hard you. And you executed it flawlessly. Thank you.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Well, it's funny too to watch this one because like for me, I. So what I remember about the I choose my choice is I remember being really nervous, but I didn't really remember why. Because I'm on the phone.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And we would always make an effort to have the other actor be. Be on the set so that you.

[Paget Brewster]

Oh my God. Really?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

I know.

[Paget Brewster]

We never get that.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I know, right? I know. It's a. It's such a difference to Jody. Mean, like such a difference. I mean, it wouldn't always work because we had cross bordered. Right. So occasionally we'd be double. Like our other two episodes would go over and people would be off somewhere else. Like we'd have two units going. So sometimes we'd have our script supervisor. But we knew Them really well. Right. So that helped. But often we would. If it was an important phone call, we would have the other person on the other side of the flat, you know, basically. Right.

[Paget Brewster]

So. So Cynthia was there.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I think so, yeah. I'd have to check with her, but I think she was. Which I think is good because I had not remembered that it was as much of an argument as it was.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah. Why don't you ask your husband?

[Cynthia Nixon]

I know, it's so mean.

[Paget Brewster]

Right. But if you had it. But if it wasn't her. You guys can't. You guys can't have that moment without hearing the other person's.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

Vocal intonation.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right. Because it wasn't like a regular phone call. You know what I mean?

[Paget Brewster]

Okay. So this helps me. This helps me recognize.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Okay.

[Paget Brewster]

Maybe I'm not dropping the ball in my acting. You. You guys had a. You know, because I can only hope. Wait, is it going to cut together? Because I don't know how they would do it. We only get to hear each other at a table read once.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right, Right. It's hard. That's hard.

[Kristin Davis]

Makes it harder.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, it makes it harder, I think, too, for us, because anytime any of the characters argued, it was always slightly scary, you know, because we cared so much about the friendships working. And that was a goal of ours and the show in general. And, you know, that was like our mission in a lot of ways. But it's not really realistic if you don't have arguments.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah, no, there's just no depth. Depth to the relationship.

[Kristin Davis]

Exactly.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

And so that is what actually, I think solidified for the audience that you guys were actual friends, is to hold each other accountable.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

For your behavior and your actions and. And how, you know, like Miranda saying to Carrie. And that's you and your bullshit bagels. Oh, I know. Just to talk about Aiden. And it's. You can see that it's true. But even within that fight. Do you want it toasted? Yeah, I know, they're hysterical.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I totally forgotten about that, too. I'd forgotten that this was when the neck thing happened. I'd forgotten that Aiden goes over there. I mean, this is a phase of the show that I don't have solid memories of each one. Right. So I'm rewatching it, going like, oh, my God.

[Paget Brewster]

Wow. Well, how could you? You lived it and you were shooting. You could have been across town shooting something else. There's no way for you to know that's true.

[Cynthia Nixon]

But I do have a lot of memories. Right. But this is about the time that they start to slip a bit, I think, because it overwhelming, right? Because of the success. It became that, like, greater thing where we're going around to different places, countries, photo shoots, award shows, blah, blah, blah. It was great. It was really fun. But it just became this kind of like, no sleep situation.

[Paget Brewster]

You know what I mean? It's a lot.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, it was a lot. But it's fun to watch because I don't remember all of it, and I think everyone is so good. And I'm also not really sure what's happening. Like, even with the Carrie Aiden situation, I don't remember this at all. Okay.

[Paget Brewster]

Really? You don't remember the Big. On the answering machine? No.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And he's just so ick. Okay. I'm sorry. That. That phone call, I'm like, right? Like, when Aiden says, I don't want him calling her, I'm like, I don't

[Kristin Davis]

want him calling here.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah, well. But it's. He ends the message with, call me baby. Baby's very proprietary.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I know. Like, no wonder Aiden's upset. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. When Aiden says, I don't want you to see him, and she's like, well, I can't do that. I'm like, no, Carrie, you need to say you won't. But obviously, knowing where the world goes.

[Paget Brewster]

I know. But even knowing. But here's what's crazy is the episodes immediately after that are up in the country in suffering.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

And then he. And Big shows up in the.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Which is great.

[Paget Brewster]

She can reach me, but I can never reach her.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

But then they end up with this, like, what is it? Green Arrow, Spider man fight?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Something so crazy where Carrie's like, I don't know who that is.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah. And then they get along. It's such. It's. It's. It's great writing.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

It. Feel it. You do have to accept, like, a suspension of.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

Disbelief. Suspension of belief that. That these two this soon could gel as men understanding each other while she's in the room. After everything that's happened.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's true. And you're not the first person to tell me that. And I do kind of see your point. But the thing that I. And of course, I know everyone involved, so it is so hard to be objective. Right. But the thing that I thought. And I'm not a man. I could be so wrong. Right.

[Kristin Davis]

But, like, men have, you know, these

[Cynthia Nixon]

complicated things they have to do in life where they have to be, like, super macho and claim their territory and whatever, or they think they have to. Or whatever. But then I felt that they had this slow burn going on. Like, as you very clearly see in this scene, right? Where, you know, big calls in what I think is just such a jerk. A jerk move, right? Like, this phone call message is like, ick, right? And of course, it's meant to do exactly what it does, which is, you know, that's mine. Right? And then Aiden's there in, like, the worst situation, and then they can't talk about it, et cetera. So of course, Aiden has, like a. It's just gonna fan that flame of him being upset about the previous, you know, cheating, obviously. And so in my mind, when I watch the fight that eventually happens in the country, it's because they actually get to fight. Because how rare is that in life that you actually get to fight it out, Right? Like, it doesn't happen that often. Thank God. Right, thank God. Fighting is never good. But because they fight it kind of like it's a catharsis for those guys.

[Paget Brewster]

I think so. Yes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And then they could just sit there and chat. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I kind of bought it, but I love it. I don't know.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah, no, I'm. I. It. It's. It's a series. It's a. It's a. It's stories, but it makes sense to me. And I think that's why it's so enduring, is that. Yeah, they fight it out, and then the steam is let out of the right pot, right?

[Cynthia Nixon]

And you can see them as another person.

[Kristin Davis]

Right?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Like, that's another person. And because Big is so all messed up about this actress, you know, Aiden can kind of see. Oh, he's a mess too. Right? Like, he's.

[Paget Brewster]

Aiden's got the girl, right? And this guy's a mess. And so he can look at, like, ugh. What? Okay.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right. And I had not really remembered any of this, so it's really interesting to me how they're gonna get it all back together. But I guess we'll find out. But let's talk about this episode. Okay, so first of all, one thing too. You're talking about. You said something about traditions. The thing that made me laugh, too. And this is a minor storyline, obviously, but the Samantha storyline about the pubic hair.

[Paget Brewster]

Oh, yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, it's so foreshadowing, Right. Like, now, I think all the young men, trim and groom, Right? Which is great, of course, but it's funny that in this episode, this guy's like, oh, wow. And look how much. I'm not gonna say his Words, but he's pleased with the outcome. But it's turning things upside down in the traditions of it all, because it was. And I guess I don't know if it still is. I don't know what the young ladies are doing down there.

[Paget Brewster]

Me neither.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I don't know. Because there was a while where maybe it was supposed to be more natural, but then maybe, maybe, maybe not. I don't know. I don't know.

[Paget Brewster]

I feel like there was a time when someone was talking about how like 70s Bush is back.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

I didn't subscribe to that personally. No groom, but I'm not a laser. Like, I don't know. Some people are just.

[Cynthia Nixon]

No, no, it's all gone.

[Paget Brewster]

And I don't.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Comfortable. I don't like it.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, I lived through all this when with the show. Right. And so we went through every phase. We went through every phase together basically because all of us, the writers and the actors were living through the changes. And I remember when Gwyneth Paltrow did like Vogue or something and discussed those sisters, the Brazilian sisters who would and said it was life changing. And I was like, wait, what is happening? Oh my God.

[Kristin Davis]

And then you were like, okay, I

[Cynthia Nixon]

guess I gotta try it. I don't know. This, like the pressure, like the, like the peer pressure to do it.

[Paget Brewster]

Did you do a Brazilian?

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, I tried not to, but then that. They just wanted to do what they wanted to do. Do you know what I mean? Right. And then I was like, well, this is horrible. Horrible.

[Paget Brewster]

Oh, I've. I never tried it.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Super uncomfortable. I did not, I did not dig it. I have super sensitive skin. I did not go back. And in fact, it like scarred me for mentally forever going to those people in general.

[Paget Brewster]

Like.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Like my skin is just not suited for, for that kind of harsh. Like I have a 14 year old daughter and she's like, wait, they do what? They what, what happens? And I'm like, you don't need to know.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay.

[Paget Brewster]

That's got to be inconceivable to children, right?

[Cynthia Nixon]

They're, they're very confused. Like they, they, they take the thing and then they pull it. I'm like, yes. And she's like, does it hurt? I'm like, beyond. Okay. It's not like hurt. It's like, yeah, yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

I did a home wax one once. I got that. I think Nair.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

Used to make a wax strip. Not just like it was hair removal. Right. So it was like. I think there was a cream that like immediately gave you Like a horrible rash.

[Cynthia Nixon]

If you tried that at home, yes,

[Paget Brewster]

it's like awful abuse in a sanitarium.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

But then there came out with wax and it was like pieces of paper and you stuck together with a wax and you warmed it up with your hand and you put it on.

[Kristin Davis]

I missed.

[Paget Brewster]

And you waited until it cooled a little bit and then you ripped it yourself and in patches. But what was uniform was bruising. Oh, I was completely bruised.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Horrible.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay, let's talk about the ultimate main character moment. You know the feeling. You wake up, the light is hitting your living room just right. And instead of rushing out the door, fighting traffic, and battling for a parking spot at a crowded studio, you just transition from sleep mode to me mode without even leaving your sanctuary. This is the magic of your Reformer. I just got one of these, you guys, and it is so beautiful. And I put it in my bedroom where the kids aren't there, so that

[Cynthia Nixon]

I can just literally do it whenever I'm getting ready.

[Kristin Davis]

I can just take 10, 20 minutes,

[Cynthia Nixon]

get a little workout in.

[Kristin Davis]

It's amazing. And every Reformer purchase includes access to your Reformer app, which has over 1,000 instructor led on demand workouts. You get your first three months free on the app and you can start with confidence, expert instruction, and all the tools and accessories you need to progress at your own pace. Oh, and did I mention, it's a gorgeous piece of furniture as well. It really is. You guys not quite ready to invest? You can actually rent your Reformer for your home for only $39 a week. That is less than the average cost of a studio class your Reformer delivers to your home within seven days across the mainland USA. Visit YourReformer.com use the code. Are you a Charlotte 200? To receive $200 off your purchase, your space, your pace, your Reformer. I have to tell you guys about Hill House Home. The brand behind the viral nap dress, the one with the signature smocking, is both flattering and comfortable. What I love about Hill House dresses is how versatile they are.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I just got the scarlet midi nap

[Kristin Davis]

dress and I can wear it running errands during the day and at dinner or a party that night. No outfit change required. And it's not just dresses. Hill House started with bedding in 2016, and their robes and pajamas are so soft. Made from the same cotton fabric as their baby onesies. They also have the cutest styles for women, babies and kids, including monogrammable robes, onesies, and pajamas that make the perfect gift. I love my pink dress that I just got the other day. From them. It's so comfortable. I can wear it around the house and then I can run errands, I

[Cynthia Nixon]

can go to lunch.

[Kristin Davis]

It's I. It's a dream. Hill House makes fun fashion that makes you feel good, which explains why celebrities

[Cynthia Nixon]

like Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo and Anne

[Kristin Davis]

Hathaway have been spotted wearing it. Honestly, Charlotte York would be all over this. Get 15% off your first order of a hundred dollars or more at hillhousehome.com with the code Charlotte15. Again, that's Charlotte15 for 15% off@hell househome.com

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self care face masks and spa days, those are non negotiables. But you know what else shouldn't be overlooked? Your eyes. If dry eye is leaving them feeling scratchy, gritty or irritated, it could be time to try something different. To be open minded, you know, consider asking your eye doctor about meibo. That's perfluorohexalactane ophthalmic solution.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's the only prescription dry eye drop

[Kristin Davis]

that directly targets too much tear evaporation,

[Cynthia Nixon]

the number one cause of dry eye.

[Kristin Davis]

Why wait? Take care of yourself and ask your eye doctor about treating dry eye differently with Mibo. Oh yeah, don't use if allergic to Maibo. Remove contacts before using and wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. Eye redness and blurred vision may occur. For more info on Meibo, call 1-800-553-5340 or visit miebo.com.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Do you remember the blue stuff? There was some blue stuff like blue wax and I bought it and I took it home and like my kitchen just never recovered. There was just blue strings everywhere.

[Paget Brewster]

Did you have to heat it up in the microwave?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Did you have to heat it and then like somehow not burn yourself? But also anytime you would take it it would just be what a nightmare the things we go through. So I love that storyline even though it is the lesser storyline. It's such a good storyline. And also she meets him by like getting in his cat. And I would never do that. I would never do that. I would not recommend that. But of course, she's Samantha and she can do anything. But it. That was pretty funny. But the Miranda storyline also, like. And this reminds me of, like, you know, when. When she thinks she's gonna die and the cat's gonna eat her face and.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

When she eats the cake, like, there's these really, really incredibly sweet Miranda story lines where I'm just like, oh, my God, I love that her so much. I love her so much. And it's also, like. It's sad, like her neck goes out. But also, it's interesting to me that Carrie actually has an actual meeting, but for some reason never tells Miranda that she has this work meeting.

[Paget Brewster]

No, she started to say it, and Miranda says, thanks, bye.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And the phone drops because, like, Miranda would understand that because we're talking about work in the whole episode.

[Paget Brewster]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

But she never hears this information because

[Paget Brewster]

she's in so much pain. And then she drops the phone as Carrie is trying to say, but I have a meeting with my Miranda goes,

[Cynthia Nixon]

thanks, bye, and got it. Got it.

[Paget Brewster]

And then she just gets progressively worse. But that is, like, exactly what you're saying, where her vocal intonations the whole time she's on the ground don't come in and ow. Like, she's so vulnerable and desperate and hurt. And. Yeah. When her defenses are down, you know they're down.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right. He's desperate, and she's, like, super strong and then. Not. Right.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah. In desperate need of help. And Aiden is the perfect guy to go. I do get that.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I know. And then he wraps her, and she holds the rug to cover herself. And he says, snug as a bug in a rug.

[Paget Brewster]

Oh, my God. But first, when he walks in, he has the towel, and he's like, oh, smells good. That's that downy fresh stuff or something. He's talking about the fabric softener. And he puts the towel on top of her. I looked up who the director was. I've never worked with this person. Michael Angler, watching this. Michael Angler.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

Who does Downton Abbey and I think Gilded Age. Also with Cynthia Nixon, I'm guessing.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes.

[Paget Brewster]

They probably. Every single moment serves a purpose. Nothing is lost, nothing is extra. Everything is moving the story forward and offering information and insight. Like.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

It's a incredibly good episode.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes. And we should say that it is written by Jessica Bedinger, who is someone that I don't know. Which. Every time we have one by her, I'm like, we Must find this woman. She was not one of our writers who was with us all the time, which most of them were. Right, right. So it's really interesting. I think this is maybe the third or fourth that we've had from her, even from the very beginning. But I think she was here in LA and sending scripts, which is not our norm. Our norm was that you were in New York.

[Paget Brewster]

You were with the.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Not even in the room, like, on the set. You know what I'm saying? Wherever we were on the set, present. If we wanted to discuss something, they were like, talk to us, you know, which was so incredible. Right. As you know, normally they're just off somewhere in the writer's room or whatever, but I don't know her. But this is a really, really solid, solid episode in every single way. And I think Corbett is so incredibly good. I had totally forgotten about this bartender girl. Who is she? Oh, my God. I was like, that is upsetting. Okay. This. Sometimes I really still have very. I have very. Her name is Gretchen Clevely.

[Kristin Davis]

She plays Pia.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Interesting. She's very good because she's, like, very in it with Corbett. You know what I mean? Like. Like the second you see them, they're very locked in.

[Kristin Davis]

In their scenes with Corbin Toosies.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

And they're playing Jackson.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes.

[Paget Brewster]

Carrie has to introduce herself.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It' Right. Like, she's teaching you to play jacks. Like, really, Aiden, you don't know how to play jacks? That's super interesting. Okay. Like, every element of it, I think is so perfect. And I was so impressed with Carrie in the first scene in her super cute Prada skirt that's, like, down low on her stomach. Love that outfit. We see the fur. I think this is the first time we're seeing the fanny pack. And it's very present, very present in this episode and looks fantastic. I understand the whole trend, but she's very. I think she plays it very cool in that first scene with. With them. Like, I would have been much more like, what the. Like, right away, you know, I kind

[Paget Brewster]

of feel like she does a little bit in that very sort of Carrie presentational way. She's like, so, a night with the guys, huh? And then, oh, yeah, the guys blew me off. And she's. And. And she's like, oh, so Steve. Oh, and where is Steve?

[Cynthia Nixon]

I know, I know. But the fact that she even. Right. She. She has, like, some sense of humor about it.

[Paget Brewster]

She' holding on. She's holding on to her anger. Yeah. Because I think she recognizes he's leaking revenge, basically. He can't stop himself.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's super passive aggressive.

[Paget Brewster]

Pushing her buttons to see what she'll take.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's messed up. It's messed up.

[Paget Brewster]

But it's understandable.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's very understandable. But it would be so much better if they could just talk about it. Yeah, but whatever.

[Paget Brewster]

Maybe in the 50s they would have.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I know. Well, probably they would have because we did. We did talk a lot more. And just like that. But I don't think people necessarily always liked it.

[Kristin Davis]

But that's okay.

[Paget Brewster]

I did. And I was mortified that it didn't get picked up. I was so confused. My husband and I both were like, who made that decision?

[Cynthia Nixon]

That doesn't even make any sense. Well, I don't think it makes any sense either. That's all I'm gonna say. But thank you for caring. Thank you for caring. I appreciate that. So I still have hope.

[Paget Brewster]

We'll see. We'll see.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I don't think we're done. I don't think we're done.

[Paget Brewster]

There's. You can't be done. You can't be done. I. I'm on a show that's been canceled. I was fired and then brought back.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean. Yeah. Can we talk about that for a minute? Because.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Paget Brewster]

Wow.

[Kristin Davis]

What on earth happened when I got.

[Paget Brewster]

When I got fired.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, it was.

[Paget Brewster]

I think it was season six or seven or something.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Okay.

[Paget Brewster]

And we did a put pile. This is, Is if you, if listeners don't know.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

This is a show called Criminal Mindset. Was on CBS for 15 years. FBI. It's big internationally show.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

But we're, we're. The show is owned by so many companies. Oh. That no one will put any money into it because they don't all get all the money back. It's fine. It's why we're still alive. It's why we're still shooting in la. We have our crew. Everyone's. We're just like an under the radar FBI show that's. That does really well all over the world. So in season six or seven, we did a. What's. I guess it's called a put pilot. I'm not sure. Or an embedded pilot.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay.

[Paget Brewster]

So it took this group of FBI profilers that's always on every Wednesday at 9:00 clock on CBS and they were building a spin off pilot inside of an episode of our show. Wow. With. Oh, now I don't know. Now I don't know everyone's name.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's okay.

[Paget Brewster]

Forest Whitaker was like the big guy that was going. Go On. Yeah. Okay. And so people, you know, okay. But. But we shot in San Francisco. We had never left la. Like, we. We shoot all over la and Long beach and Fraser park and Lancashire, you know, whatever. But we'd never gone to another part of the state.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

So this pilot inside our episode was shot in San Francisco. And apparently this is what I heard when Les Moonves, who is.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, I know.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Paget Brewster]

Famously ousted president of cbs. Yes. When he got the pilot inside of our episode, he. It was the first time he'd watched the show because the show just performed. It was never. It's never going to be nominated for an award. It's never going to be. We're never going to shoot in Paris.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's very solid.

[Paget Brewster]

Exactly. So we think he saw the show for the first time in years.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Paget Brewster]

And just said, oh, I don't like those women. Get rid of those men. And so A.J. cooke and I were fired for. And my agent went in and had a big fight with them and kept me. AJ was out. They kept me for 15 episodes or something while I trained on the show. My character trained the character who took AJ's part.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, no.

[Paget Brewster]

And they look so similar that people ran photos of this new actress saying it was AJ for six or seven years after the. The. The replacement. And she's fine. She's great. She's lovely. She lasted a year.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay.

[Paget Brewster]

And then they fired her and brought AJ back.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, my gosh.

[Paget Brewster]

When I finished my 15 episodes, they said, please stay. And I was like, you. I'm so mad. I'm so mad at you. I don't. I do not accept this. And I left for four years and it was great. I did a show called Grandfathered. I did a show called Another Period for Comedy Central. Right. A bunch of drunk histories. I did Community.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right? Amazing.

[Paget Brewster]

Like, I did a lot. Went. Went back to comedy and had a great time. But during that time, fans would come up to me and be like, why. Why are you. Why aren't you on? And after four years, because I really did hold on to that anger for too long. It was an unhealthy thing to hold on to because AJ and I were like, we were early. We knew our lines. We never got into fights. We never.

[Cynthia Nixon]

We. You know, I mean, unreal.

[Paget Brewster]

We were really angry. And. And AJ was asked back a year after she was gone, and she. She's just a nicer person than I am. And I'm like, I'm from a. From a tight anger and fear based Massachusetts. People love it. So I held on to the anger for too long. And after four years, I finally thought, why am I not on? I love everyone there. I just don't like Les Moonves. Sure. And I never have to see him because he doesn't care about this show.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

So I agreed to guess star. Uhhuh. And then the first day I showed up to guest star, there was an altercation between one of the actors in the cast and a. And a writer that led to the actor being let go.

[Cynthia Nixon]

What? Okay.

[Paget Brewster]

My God. And I. It. It. It's a. It's just a sad situation all around.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, no.

[Paget Brewster]

And something. I don't really want to. I don't want to. I wasn't there, so I can't. But when that was inevitable and the studio had made a decision and it was over.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

This person was no longer going to be on the cast. The writers and studio and network said to me, please come back. And now your character, be. Be the boss.

[Cynthia Nixon]

That's cool. I like that.

[Paget Brewster]

And I said, okay. And then I fought. I fought and fought and fought to try to get my episodic fee close to what the men were making.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes.

[Paget Brewster]

Because we were always paid less. So then, because I was like, well, I kind of have them over a barrel.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

They need me more than I need this show, so I'm gonna go. So I got my episode fee way up from what it was then when the other female cast members, their contracts were up. And so I said, this is what I got. Go get more. You stayed. And I was out. So then they went in and they got big raises, and then my contract was up. And. No, actually, my contract wasn't up. They got raises. And then the next year, because I told them, this is what I'm getting. You should get more. They did. Did. Then my contract was not up. And one. And my husband said, you're going back. Why don't you ask to make what they're making? And I was like, they're never going to do that. I'm signed. And he was like, just say you want parody. Give it a shot.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Paget Brewster]

And. And I. I said, hey, guys. I asked. I told my lawyer, my manager, and they were like, we can ask. They're not going to do it.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

They called the next day and said they're gonna pay.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, my God.

[Paget Brewster]

So I'm like, oh, okay. Thank God I don't have a prenup. My husband deserves it. It. Like, he. He. It was his idea.

[Cynthia Nixon]

That's adorable. That's a good husband.

[Paget Brewster]

Well, we're so Beaten down into thinking, well, of course we're not making as much as the men. Why would we. We do. And I was like, oh, this is over. We. That's over now. I, I, I do not accept that. And I think a lot of people don't. That's radically.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's hard, though. It's really hard. I find it a really hard thing always. My thing is, like, you know, if you love the thing, right, Then, yeah,

[Paget Brewster]

you would do it for free.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

But you can't say that.

[Cynthia Nixon]

No, it's, like, really hard for me. And I feel like what happens at least back when we all started, right? Or when we were getting the, like, the beginnings of success, the way to fight really hard would be not to go to work.

[Paget Brewster]

Oh, I would, I could never, ever do that. But I knew guys who did. There were actors. One day someone suddenly got bitten by a poisonous spider, and a week later, they got a huge race.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, my God.

[Paget Brewster]

And I'm like, that's how this works. I could never do that. I don't want to do that to the writers or to the crew because,

[Cynthia Nixon]

you know, those people, right?

[Paget Brewster]

I want to screw those people over.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right. The idea that would. They would be sitting at work going, like, well, you know, I, I don't know. Chris is. May not come in. Like, I can't even.

[Paget Brewster]

Insane.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I can't even live with that thought.

[Kristin Davis]

What?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Much less do it, you know? And so in the beginning, I always thought that that's what you had to do, because that's the only way I'd ever seen it work. And I was like, well, I'm just not gonna do that. I just can't.

[Paget Brewster]

That's not who I am. And I don't. I choose my choice. I choose.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I choose my choice.

[Paget Brewster]

Not 100. An independent operator who's going to screw other people to get right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Because then you have to live with yourself.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

That is who you are.

[Paget Brewster]

I don't want to be that person.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I did not want to do that. Right. And that seemed to be. There were no in betweens. Right? There was this, and there's that, you know? And so I thought, well, you know what? I'm just gonna have less money than I might have had, which is annoying, but I still can live with myself. Right. And so it's so great that you were able to find another way to do that. And also that obviously you were a team player and doing an excellent job in the first place and wrongly fired. And thank God it came back around for you.

[Paget Brewster]

Me too. And I'M extremely thankful for that.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I want to talk about the hair, because I really, really am jealous. Okay. Like. Like, how did it happen? I'm super into it.

[Paget Brewster]

I was afforded every opportunity the last year when we knew Criminal Minds was ending at CBS and we were going to shoot season 15 and be done. Done. I asked our showrunner, Erica Messer, may I wear a wig for this last year? So that's a whole. And my hair looked like a wig anyway. It was like, black bangs, black long hair. I was dyeing my roots on, you know, every other weekend because I can't sit in a salon chair.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh.

[Kristin Davis]

It's hard.

[Paget Brewster]

Like, if I don't have to do it in the morning, sure. I'm learning my lines. I'm getting a blowout.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I love it, right?

[Paget Brewster]

But I wasn't going to be doing. And I started going gray when I was 28, so I didn't even know what was under there.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's so beautiful.

[Paget Brewster]

I love it now that it's wrong, but, man, no, the in between. She let me wear a wig, but I had to cut it down to a crew, and that worked when I was 18. I had a crew cut when I was 18, but I had dyed it permanent for so long that I couldn't strip the black and brown out. So it went down to this. Now we finish criminal minds season 15. I am just wearing hats all the time because I look like. At its longest, I look like George Washington. It's springy. It's short. I am unattractive. I am not rocking this hairstyle. I'm not. And I feel awful. So I'm not sexy. My husband's doing everything in his power. He's like, baby, you look great. Let me. Let me touch that fuzz on the back here. Oh, that's so. It feels so cool. It's beautiful. He. He's the best again. Yeah. So. But then pandemic. So now I have two years.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Wow.

[Paget Brewster]

To grow it out. And I love it long. Like your length. I prefer. I want this length.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's so gorgeous.

[Paget Brewster]

But when it got to the bob, I was like, okay, I'm coming out of the funk. At least. It's like I can't put it in a ponytail, but. But it took so long.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Wow.

[Paget Brewster]

And I would. And when. When women and women do compliment me a lot, like, they. They love it. And they're. They're dyeing their hair. I can tell some of them had a little bit of gray at the roots. They're like, I want to do it. And I say, be prepared to cut all of your hair off because you're not going to get that dye out and you're not going to like it. You're going to feel like crap for a year or two. And I had the Pandemic. I had a year of wig.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

And two years of Pandemic. So I got it. When we came out of the Pandemic, I was like, I'm a goddess, thank God.

[Cynthia Nixon]

So you had such foresight. Like, this was really, really smart of you. I mean, it's impressive.

[Paget Brewster]

I think it's all luck. I think it's all luck. And the funny thing was, the last year of Criminal Minds, I was like, okay, I'm going to grow my hair out gray, and then I'm going to do, like, all kinds of different parts with gray hair. And then Pandemic hits nothing. And. And the whole. I was like, I'm going to be on, like, a really cutting edge streaming show with my gray hair. And then when Paramount plus picked us up during the Pandemic, sure. I went in and said, I can wear the wig. I have the hair. I have the real hair wig.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

Or we can do the gray. It's up to you. I don't care.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, that's nice.

[Paget Brewster]

I'm in the hair chair for eight minutes, right. My real hair, I get a beautiful blowout.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Paget Brewster]

And they went to Paramount plus with, like, photos. First I went to the DP and I said, is this going to be difficult to light? And he was like, I love it.

[Kristin Davis]

Amazing.

[Paget Brewster]

The showrunner was like, I love it, love it.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Amazing.

[Paget Brewster]

He says, I love it. Upm. Great. So then I. Then they went to this. They said, we have to run it by the studio. And I still was like, I can wig or not, I'm totally fine.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Wow.

[Paget Brewster]

And the studio said, we love the gray. Wow. Which was a shock. I did not think that was gonna happen.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Good for them.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah, it was very surprising, but also

[Cynthia Nixon]

super smart of how you went about it. Because I think what happens as an actor or act actress, especially if you have it like I am doing this, that's when things go wrong. Oh, no.

[Paget Brewster]

Yeah, you're. Yeah, we're. Yeah. And I get. But I mean, I did understand that I had presented as this brunette for the whole time. You know, I. I wasn't really doing. If I did, I would do comedies and wigs. But. But when I went gray and it was short, the only show that cast me was mom. That Alison Janney, Anna Faris. I was cast with very short Gray hair. And they said, we don't need to put a wig on you. When I did a bunch of episodes of how I met your father, they wigged me. And so I was always like, I don't care, I'll wig, not wig. Things are, wigs are done so well now in the hands of a professional that you could be. You can be any, anything.

[Cynthia Nixon]

That's a really good point. I never even think of this. I just go to that salon all the damn time. I hope you've enjoyed this chat with Padget Brewster. She's really, really fun. And we are going to have part

[Kristin Davis]

two later this week, so please join us on Are you with Charlotte? You know that fantasy version of your life? The one where you wake up and the light's hitting just right and you do a 20 minute workout in your gorgeous living room and you feel the lead in your own movie? Yeah. That's not a fantasy anymore. You can get your own Reformer.

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