Catching Up with Friends: Jacob Pitts

Summary

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Are You A Charlotte?

Episode: "Catching Up with Friends: Jacob Pitts"

Host: Kristin Davis
Guest: Jacob Pitts
Release Date: March 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Are You a Charlotte?" offers a deeply personal and revealing conversation between host Kristin Davis—best known as Charlotte York from Sex and the City—and actor Jacob Pitts. Jacob famously played "the other Sam Jones" in Season 3, Episode 17 of Sex and the City, a memorable storyline that paired his youthful NYU character with Samantha Jones. Over the course of their chat, Kristin and Jacob revisit the unique pressures of being a young actor, body image struggles, the culture of ambition in show business, and the changing landscape of acting in the era of social media and AI. The episode is candid, warm, and full of behind-the-scenes insights both about the storied series and about what it's like to come of age in the unpredictable world of entertainment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Jacob Pitts and the Iconic Role

• Kristin introduces Jacob as the standout young actor who played the other "Sam Jones" on Sex and the City (03:26).
• Jacob describes his headspace at the time: “I was about 20, going on 12.” (05:20)
• Kristin dives into the impact and memory of Jacob’s episode, highlighting the boldness and comedic charm he brought to the role.

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2. Body Image, Mental Health, and Acting Pressures

(05:00–09:40)

• Jacob opens up about experiencing anorexia when he filmed Sex and the City, candidly sharing:

  "I think I was about 20, going on 12... I was in the throes of some kind of anorexia." (05:20)

• He discusses obsessive behaviors, such as running seven miles daily and strictly consuming no-fat products.
• Kristin commiserates and relates her own battles with body image as a young actress, noting the specific pressures put on actors by the industry:

  "We're all human, right. And we're in this really weird situation where our visual selves are a huge part of what we're doing." (06:18)

• Jacob credits long-distance running and, humorously, discovering marijuana with helping him move on from the eating disorder.

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3. Audition Stories & Early Career Realities

(09:41–15:25)

• Jacob recalls his audition and move to New York, and the peculiarities of his acting school ("the most terrible acting school you could possibly [imagine]"). (11:07)
• The conversation explores how, after Titanic, there was a casting rush for "DiCaprio-esque" young actors.
• Jacob reflects on being unprepared but instinctually right for the part:

  “I was running on pure instinct at that point." (11:07)

• Discussion of the James Dean archetype and the romanticization of being a wild, uncontrollable young talent.

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4. On-Set Memories & Behind-the-Scenes Anecdotes

(15:27–22:00)

• Jacob wanted to do a “surprise moment” with a solo cup in the party scene but didn’t have the confidence to ask the director or co-stars, reflecting his then-naivete.
• He fondly recalls direction from Alan Coulter and his first experience with the "modesty pouch":

  "They gave me two options: the skin colored thong and the Tarzan G string... I thought this was HBO. Don’t wanna see what happens." (20:59, Jacob)

• Kristin highlights Jacob’s boldness in the episode:

  "...you seem just very sure of yourself. Like, even just watching you as an actor, I thought that young actor is very sure of himself." (19:19)

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5. The Changing Landscape: Acting Then vs. Now

(16:26–18:00; 43:41–45:37)

• Kristin and Jacob muse on generational differences—noting that actors today can be more cautious, perhaps due to social media scrutiny.
• Jacob observes the lack of "moral-of-the-story" sitcoms for younger generations and wonders about its impact.
• They both reflect on whether young actors today have similar artistic idols or are influenced primarily by image and internet fame.

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6. Fame, Recognition & Lasting Impact

(27:50–29:12; 43:28–44:01)

• Jacob describes the odd rhythm of being recognized for a guest role—every seven years someone points out his “Sam Jones” appearance.
• Both discuss how fame is a double-edged sword: desired for its currency in the industry but not as a personal goal.

  "Being famous does not absolve you of being an a**hole. And it does not actually make you immortal." (43:28, Jacob)

• Kristin affirms this reality, explaining how casting and career opportunities often depend on name recognition, not just talent.

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7. Industry Pressure, Neuroticism, & Coping Mechanisms

(29:34–33:14)

• Both share stories of extreme diets and neurotic routines around filming (“I would just have some thing where I'd be like, I'm just gonna eat M&Ms” — Kristin, 30:28).
• Kristin notes external industry pressure to maintain a certain appearance, often at the expense of health.
• Jacob reflects on how being an actor warps your sense of yourself versus “normal” people, referencing the “insular” nature of show business.

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8. Other Career Highlights & The Joys of Acting

(33:14–35:04)

• Jacob calls HBO’s The Pacific his favorite project:

  "It was very intense and we were all starving ourselves because those guys were supposed to be starving." (33:23)

• The seriousness of the subject matter, Marine oversight, and camaraderie made it feel more meaningful than typical acting work.
• Both lament the decline in traditional romantic comedies, and Kristin praises the series "Heated Rivalry" for rekindling classic rom-com joys.

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9. From Sitcoms to Broadway: Realities of Performance

(37:36–40:46)

• Jacob discusses odd experiences with sitcom acting classes and how multi-camera comedy is its own art form.
• Kristin recounts being a guest star on Friends and Will & Grace, dealing with audience applause, and wise words from legendary director James Burrows:

  "If you ever want to be on a sitcom, be on a sitcom with James Burroughs directing. He will take care of you." (39:40)

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10. Reluctance with Publicity & Modern Celebrity

(40:49–44:01)

• Jacob admits being nervous before the podcast and about public attention:

  "We live in this world where the people who have found a purpose in pretending to be anybody other than themselves are expected somehow to be happy and most joyous when everyone's paying attention to them as they are." (41:36)

• He admires actors like Robert De Niro who eschew being personalities outside role-playing.

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11. Technology, Social Media, and AI in Entertainment

(44:01–47:58)

• Both express skepticism about the influence of social media stars and debate whether AI can ever replicate real, surprising performances.

  "How could AI replicate a human and then surprise us? I don't think it could happen. Do you know what I'm saying?" (45:32, Kristin)

• The conversation touches on concerns for younger generations growing up entirely online, referencing The Anxious Generation book and the struggles of maintaining privacy or emotional boundaries.

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12. Favorite Actors & Lasting Inspirations

(54:30–55:50)

• Kristin names Meryl Streep and Holly Hunter as idols, recalling the awe of Meryl's performances. Jacob singles out Meryl’s emotional power in films like Ironweed.

  "Whenever she sings. Incredible. It's incredible." (55:04, Kristin)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On body image and acting:

  “I saw some photo of myself...and I thought I looked chunky...I got obsessed with doing unendurable things like running seven miles a day and only buying products that had zero fat.” — Jacob Pitts (05:39)

• On being recognized:

  "Every seven years somebody recognizes me from it or...they're like, 'But you're Sam Jones.'” — Jacob Pitts (28:39)

• On generational shifts:

  “Did these kids grow up with any of that [moral-of-the-story sitcoms]?” — Jacob Pitts (16:49)
  “...we remember life before [the internet]. Right? Thank god. They don't really have a life before all this stuff.” — Kristin Davis (47:57)

• On the purpose of acting:

  “I think that we as actors just have to remain calm, like, remain grounded, try to protect ourselves and keep doing what we do. Because I have to believe that in the end, people are going to be attracted to actual, real storytelling.” — Kristin Davis (45:31)

• On publicity:

  "I've really gotten a lot of respect for Robert De Niro just as a as a public person, because people criticize him for being a terrible interview. But...he's not a personality...that's not what's interesting to him.” — Jacob Pitts (41:36)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:26] – Introduction to Jacob Pitts and his role on SATC
• [05:02–09:40] – Jacob’s struggles with eating disorders while filming
• [11:07] – Reflections on early career and acting school
• [15:27–16:26] – On being young, bold, and ambitious as an actor
• [19:19] – Kristin praises Jacob’s confidence and comedic energy
• [22:00] – First-time experience with an "HBO modesty pouch"
• [27:50–29:12] – Being recognized on the street (or not)
• [33:14–35:04] – The Pacific and other career highlights
• [39:40] – Kristin on sitcom directing wisdom and stage acting
• [41:36] – Jacob on discomfort with publicity/personality culture
• [45:31] – Discussion on AI, authenticity, and the necessity of human storytelling
• [54:30–55:50] – Favorite actors and enduring acting inspirations

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Conclusion

In this wide-ranging and heartfelt episode, listeners are treated to insights from both sides of the spotlight: the realities of professional acting, the shifting tides of fame, and the personal cost of creative ambition. Jacob Pitts’ honesty about mental health, fame, and authenticity, matched with Kristin Davis’s empathetic candor, ensures this episode is a must-listen for Sex and the City fans and anyone fascinated by the real lives behind beloved characters.

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Transcript

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession. Are you a Charlotte? Listeners, you can find that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling, it's a fashion pursuit. I went on ebay to find a vintage Mugler jacket for the end of one of the seasons of and just like that where Charlotte had to look fantastic at the gallery and I found the most fantastic jacket there. So there's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee Ebay things people love.

[B]

Peace to the planet. Charlamagne Tha God here. And listen, we are back. The Black Effect Podcast Festival is back in Atlanta on April 25th at Pullman Yard. And the full lineup is nuts. We got the Grits and Age podcast, Deontay Kyle and Big Ice Cup Kat. We got Club 520 with Jeff Teague and the gang. Don't call me White Girl Mona will be there. Keep it positive sweetie. With Crystal Renee. We got Reality with the King with Carlos King and yes, drink champs will be in the building. Ok. Plus you know we gonna have a lot of guests so you need to join us. And we got the Black Effect Marketplace, the Pitcher podcast and everything you expect from the Black Effect Podcast Festival. Tickets are on sale right now. Go get [e-mail] podcast festival. Don't play yourself. Okay, pull up.

[C]

Next Monday, our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards are happening live at south by Southwest.

[A]

This is the biggest night in podcasting.

[C]

We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creat creators in the industry.

[A]

And the winner is.

[C]

Creativity, knowledge and passion will all be on full display.

[A]

Thank you so much iheartradio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome.

[C]

Watch live next Monday at 8pm Eastern, 5pm Pacific [e-mail] or the Veeps app.

[D]

You know Roald Dahl, he thought of Willy Wonka in the bfg. But did you know he was a spy? In the new podcast the Secret World of Roald Dahl, I'll tell you that story and much, much more.

[A]

What?

[E]

You probably won't believe it either.

[A]

Was this before he wrote his stories?

[F]

It must have been okay, I don't think that's true.

[D]

I'm telling you, the guy was a spy.

[E]

Listen to the Secret World of Roald

[D]

Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the evidence has been made to fit. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed. What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh, my God. I think she might be innocent. Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[D]

Warning. This recording contains discussions of eating disorders, body image, and potentially triggering topics related to food and mental health. These subjects may be sensitive for some listeners.

[A]

Hi, I'm Kristin Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi, everyone. Welcome to Are you a Charlotte? Today we have a very fascinating guest in Catching up with Friends. His name is Jacob Pitts and he plays the other Sam Jones in episode 17 of season three, what goes around comes around. He is the young NYU student that Samantha Jones ends up having sex with. I'm sure you all remember him because he was incredible, which is partly why we wanted to track him down and talk to him. And he does not disappoint you guys. He's super fascinating. He's gone on to have a really great career. He was in the Pacific on hbo. He was Unjustified with Timothy Oliphant Walton Goggins, which I totally forgot to talk to him about because he was so incredibly interesting. All right, please enjoy my conversation with Jacob Pitts. Hello.

[D]

Hello.

[A]

Hi. Thank you for joining us. Jacob Pitts. Very exciting. We really, really wanted you on.

[D]

You did?

[A]

Yes, yes. Because you play a very unusual and interesting character, your young self. So. So take me back. So, first of all, I am pretty sure this is. We just watched this episode, so you. We were like, who is that kid? He's am playing the other Sam Jones. And you look like you might be 17 or something. You look so young. So tell us, Tell us.

[D]

Well, it was interesting. You say a very unusual character. I think I was very unusual at that point in my life.

[A]

In a good way.

[D]

Not always, no.

[F]

Okay.

[A]

Okay, tell us more. Tell us more.

[D]

Well, I think I was about 20, going on 12. And yeah, I think I was. Not to start out really dark, but I believe I was in the throes of some kind of anorexia. No. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Oh, no.

[D]

I'd done a Broadway play and I saw some photo of myself that I Saw recently again in the last couple years, and I thought I looked chunky, but I saw in the last couple years. Of course I saw. I'm like, I don't look chunky at all. And I got obsessed with doing unendurable things like running seven miles a day and only buying products that had zero fat in it. Oh, no. Yeah, I could go on. There's some stuff that I once described to a friend of mine. He said that sounds like psychosis.

[A]

Oh, no.

[D]

I was perfect for the part at the time.

[A]

I mean, fully perfect for the part, but separate from that. I think it's so interesting to hear from an actor talking about it because we're all human, right. And we're in this really weird situation where our visual selves are a huge part of what we're doing. Like what our job is, what we love, what we're committed to. I mean, did you feel like that was part of it that you took that picture?

[D]

The odd thing is that's not the sort of thing I worried about at all. Like, it wasn't like it was that I can remember. It just. I saw that in the picture and then I became obsessed with that. I go from obsession to obsession throughout my life.

[A]

Fair enough, Fair enough. I feel similar to that. Yes, yes. And it's all about moderating the obsession, right?

[D]

Yeah. Or finding a less terrifying one.

[A]

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I'm sober. I'm a long time sober. And I started at 11. Thank you so much. I started drinking at 11. Correct. Yes, I know. Insane, right? Insane with what? It was a screwdriver, you know, orange juice and vodka. And I was in some ways able to do that because I was in the theater in a very not professional way in South Carolina. And so I was always around adults. You know, I'm very old, so it was the 70s, and there was not a lot of, like, supervision in a weird way. You know what I mean? So if you had that, like, you know, genetic leaning or whatever it might be. Yeah. Then. And I. I had read recently with anorexia that they're looking at. There's a set of genes that they're looking at as being part of what might make you prone to that, which I think is super interesting.

[D]

Well, I've never had ever since. I. I forget what it was that I think it was the run, the long distance running. And I justified to myself I could eat anything I wanted at that point. But I. I've never had a bout or a worry about other than being just a vain actor type. But I've never had a, you know, worry about that otherwise.

[A]

Interesting. So it just. You saw this picture and then you became obsessed.

[D]

I was obsessed for a better part of a year, I would say. Yeah.

[G]

Wow.

[A]

And our show came in the middle of that.

[D]

Yeah. And I. Yeah, I was. I was only allowing myself to eat once. My stomach was ravenous. Just some terrible yoplait and peaches or something like that.

[A]

Wow. So that manic energy that you have in the part, that was real. Wow. So, okay, before we discuss the part some more, how did you get out of this phase? Like, what happened to get you out?

[D]

Well, I think it was that. I think. Well, it was the long distance running. Right. Then decided I could eat anything I want. And then I think I just found my way to marijuana.

[A]

Okay, that's less. That's probably less dangerous, right?

[D]

Well, no, because then that delusions of its own.

[A]

Oh, no. Oh, my God. Well, can I say, first of all, you seem super young. Like. Like, even. I mean, your. Your energetics are so perfect for the part because you look really young and you're thin, which I think kind of makes you look younger in a way. You know what I'm saying? Like. Like boyish.

[D]

Very, very boyish, I think, about the boy. Undeveloped body kind of thing.

[A]

Definitely, definitely. And then where.

[D]

Like regular old twink. Where?

[A]

Why? Why? How did you come to. To audition for our part, for our. For our show?

[D]

I don't know. They just sent me there.

[A]

So you're acting at this point, like, fully this. You're living in New York?

[D]

Yeah, I was living in New York. Oh, man. I don't know how much of this I want to reveal.

[A]

You don't have to reveal anything you don't want to. You're already fascinating.

[D]

Okay, well, you know, it was interesting watching the episode was that I've seen it three times now.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

And the second time I watched it, I was too connected to that. That kid. So I kind of watched it like this.

[A]

Sure.

[D]

And the third. This time, though, it was just. It was that first feeling I've ever had of. That's. That's just a totally different person. It's not even.

[F]

Wow.

[D]

You know you've had that feeling? Sure.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

And so it was kind of a relief in that sense. But I thought, oh, this poor kid. Because I remembered all the delusions he had and the crazy, you know. Yeah. Friendless.

[A]

Oh, no.

[D]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, no.

[D]

That's a few years before I got a real friend. So really good for that part. I was a real Weirdo.

[A]

I mean, you were perfect. Perfect casting. I'm sorry that I. I didn't see you and I hope that somebody in our world was kind to you.

[D]

You're not sorry you didn't see us. I'm not? No. They were great. I was actually thinking about. Everyone was fine who I met. I watched that and I thought, that is. I was running on pure instinct at that point. I had moved to New York about a year and a half earlier and I started with just the most terrible acting school you could possibly like. The most discouraging. I don't want to do any more acting classes after this kind of school.

[A]

Oh, no.

[D]

It was just, you know, they broke it up into things. Like we actually had a course called the History of Sitcoms. Oh. And yeah, really kind of sketchy stuff that I'm like, do we need to be studying this?

[A]

Yeah. That's odd.

[D]

I remember we had a scene study class with. There were a sister and brother in the class.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

We had pretty much cycled through all the partner ups you could. And at the end this sister and brother were partnered in a scene as lovers.

[E]

No.

[D]

Yeah. That's how bad it was.

[A]

That's not good.

[D]

And so I didn't have. I. And I don't know what it was. I couldn't. No one could talk to me. I don't think I had that. I've since found out a bunch of my friends of the same age and kind of experience had the same experience where we would. Somehow I think it was that I was looking to get into the business post Titanic and they saw me as any kind of DiCaprio esque.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

Kid who could yell a sentence or two with conviction picked him up and said, let's see which one.

[A]

You know, that's amazing. I love that because I also, I do feel like that's a big thing, right? Like someone hit so big like, like Leo did when he was really like his breakout, whatever. And everyone's like, where's someone like him? But, you know, good for you that you were in there. And I mean, sad that you were in a scary acting class. But obviously you persevered. You've worked tons since then. And we got you like, like what? First acting job? Second acting job, third or third or fourth.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

So you were really doing pretty well. I mean, that's pretty good for that age, don't you think?

[D]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I was fantastic. I know I had no appreciation of where I was whatsoever.

[A]

I mean, I don't think you do when you're Young, but also, you had a lot going on, so maybe you weren't really, like, you know, grounded thinking about it. Right.

[D]

Definitely not interesting. The thing about it is I, you know, James Dean was an idol of mine, and I only knew what I'd retained from some weird biographies. There was actually a Robert Altman documentary about him in black and white. One of the earliest things Robert Altman ever did.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

But I just remembered stories about him pulling a switchblade on directors and being unpredictable and real. Oh, no cast. And I didn't. This acting class didn't give me anything I didn't have. I didn't. I didn't grasp a single thing. Wow. If they had anything to teach me, and maybe if you could teach me anything, I couldn't hear it because I was such a sheltered, delusional kid. I needed to be this great James Dean genius. Wow. No one could handle. No one could direct. No one could handle. Wow. Yeah. It's crazy. Delusion.

[A]

I mean, it's fascinating.

[D]

And there was a scene in the. In the. The party scene in this episode when Samantha and Carrie first come up to me and I put a solo cup almost on a plastic inflatable cactus.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And at the time, I wanted to do the idea of just letting it go onto the cactus and spill out everywhere and do everything and. But I didn't know. I didn't have the experience where I could go, go to the director, go to the cast, see if they want to do that.

[A]

Right.

[D]

It's just in my head, be like, no, it's gotta be surprised. They can't know.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

Wow. Then I didn't have the balls to go through with it because I didn't want to ruin.

[A]

That's probably good.

[D]

That's probably good.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

But it was that kind of mentality.

[A]

Interesting. So. But I love the. I love the kind of naive ambition of it all, you know, because sometimes I feel like young actors are just trying to play it safe. You know what I'm saying? Like, especially maybe nowadays where, like, I'm always pushing people who are younger to try to, like, step out, like, try something, you know?

[D]

You really think they're playing it safe these days?

[A]

Some that I know, some that I know, I don't want to. I don't want to call anyone out here on the podcast, but I feel like it might be somehow related to social media. I don't know if that's true or

[D]

not, but, like, I'm sure it's true.

[A]

Right? Like, some kind of perception that they have about how they should just be, like, kind of flat and natural all the time.

[D]

No. I don't know. You're. You're. You're Gen X. No.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I'm. I'm ancient is really.

[D]

So you had. But you had. The thing where, I don't know, I grew up. This is the thing I've observed, is that I grew up on various cartoons and sitcoms where they always had a moral or a lesson at the end of the episode.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And they all had the one where. You know, what was the one? Carlton got in trouble this week because he wanted to be cool for Will's Friends from Philadelphia.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[D]

What he learned was that you shouldn't care what other people think and that you should just be yourself.

[A]

But that's great. I think that's great.

[D]

Did these kids grow up with any of that?

[A]

I don't think they did.

[D]

They ever got that special episode.

[A]

It doesn't seem like it. It doesn't seem like it. I mean, the interesting thing is, I think also it's weird to be a young person acting, right? So, like, you might have maybe a lot of supervision because people don't want to, you know, the safety. People are worried about safety. I don't know. I don't know what it is. But I do know that there's a bunch of young people that I was like, you know, act. You know what I'm saying? Like, go. Whereas, like, for us, we were all looking at De Niro and Meryl Streep and, you know, like, actors, like real actors, where we wanted to be super, like, serious and risky and, you know, emotional and all of those things. And I don't know if that's. That's what they are looking at now as being their kind of their idols. You know what I'm saying? And, like, for me, everything that you're saying, separate from the fact that you were in a very dark place, which I feel really bad.

[D]

I didn't know it, though. I didn't know it. Like, got it.

[A]

Got it.

[D]

I wouldn't have known it if you told me.

[A]

Wow.

[F]

Wow.

[A]

Amazing. But, like, for me, I think that's partly why I really wanted to talk to you, is that here you are so young in our show, and our show at this point, third season is pretty big. Like, it's pretty successful. I don't know if you were aware of that. No. Amazing. Because you're just so bold in the part. I mean, it's written as bold, obviously. Like, you play Sam Jones. You know, Samantha Jones gets these Phone calls, just in case anyone hasn't watched it this week or whatever. And your friends start calling our Samantha saying, you know, we're coming to your party. And she's like, what party is this? And who's this other Sam Jones and how come I haven't met him? And, oh, he has a address that's near Washington Square Park. He must be rich. But of course you're in a dorm at nyu. It's also hysterical. So she and Carrie end up at your party with a bunch of young people, college age kids. And then she eventually you basically say something to the effect of, you know, I, I must be the wrong Sam Jones because I'm still a virgin. Like, you just blurt out to her at the party, which is adorable. And she's like, oh. And then she, she leaves. Thank God. Because I was nervous. I was like, no, Sam, don't do it. Because I don't rem lot of things when I look back. Right. Like certainly other people's storylines. I don't remember what's going to happen. But then she does, she does relent. And I can't remember right now why she relents even though I just watched it. But she does.

[D]

You pretty. I'm pretty forcible. I kind of force myself.

[A]

You do. You're like, you have a lot, you're very persuasive energy. Yeah, definitely a lot of energy. And also like, you seem just very sure of yourself. You know, like even just watching you as an actor, I thought that young actor is very sure of himself. Like, wow, I'm so impressed. And then you guys have very athletic sex and you're very, very funny in the sex. Very, very funny. Your faces and everything. It's very entertaining. And then you tell her you love her. Like a little puppy dog. Like so sweet at the end. And then she's like, bye, bye. And then you go like down in a dark, dark freak out. Which is also so adorable because normally that's what you see. Women. And you're like, Samantha at the door. Sam Jones. Sam Jones. So I have so many questions. Number one, do you remember anything filming it in particular? Other than that you had a theory that you were gonna put the Drake all over everyone?

[D]

I remember very little. What I do remember is, well, there were only two days, I think.

[A]

Yeah, but you packed a lot in.

[D]

I remember Alan Coulter giving direction.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I don't know if this is your experience, but anytime he had something for me, he was like,

[A]

definitely his hand like this. And he would be like, definitely that thing.

[D]

And then I remember it was my first experience with the modesty pouch.

[A]

Sure. Yes.

[D]

And they gave me two options. The skin colored thong and the Tarzan G string.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

And they say, which do you want? And I remember going, whoa, whoa, whoa. I thought this was hbo. Don't wanna see what happens.

[A]

Oh, Jesus.

[D]

Yeah. Exact delusional. And I thought I was. And Kim Cattrall's like, no, but this is Kim Cattrall. I'm not gonna do that. And I was like, okay. So I took the Tarzan thing.

[A]

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[C]

Our 2026 iHeart podcast awards are happening live at south by Southwest.

[A]

This is the biggest night in podcasting

[C]

we'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry.

[A]

And the winner is.

[C]

Creativity, knowledge and passion will all be on full display.

[A]

Thank you so much, iheartradio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome.

[C]

Watch live next Monday at 8:00pm Eastern, 5:00pm Pacific [e-mail] or the Veeps app.

[D]

I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's the Bachelor.

[G]

Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The Internet turned on him.

[D]

If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

[G]

But what happened to Clayton? After the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal.

[A]

The media is here. This case has gone viral.

[D]

The dating contract.

[A]

Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you.

[D]

Police. Search warrant.

[C]

This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

[G]

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said and the search for accountability in a sea of lies.

[A]

I have done nothing except get pregnant by the Bachelor.

[G]

Listen to Love trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[F]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.

[D]

He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground.

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[B]

I thought it was a mistaken identity.

[D]

The best lie is partial truth.

[F]

For 22 years, only two people knew the truth until a confession changed everything.

[D]

I was a monster.

[F]

Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

Do you remember why you have the accent that you have? Because you're from Connecticut, correct?

[D]

Correct, yes.

[A]

So what happened?

[D]

Well, I think I could be wrong. I think there was something and I think it was in the audition scene as well. I thought there was some reference in the script to Texan.

[A]

Oh, if there was, I missed it. But cool.

[D]

I don't know. I didn't think they. I think I didn't. Because when we start, they played like a jingly Jangly banjo kind of.

[A]

They did, they did. That's true.

[D]

I feel like that was always baked in somehow.

[A]

Got it. I, I thought maybe it was Coulter who has an accent kind of like not exactly the same, but like a little Southern isms kind of to him. I didn't know where that came from, but I love it as a choice.

[D]

I don't think it came from me. I don't think I.

[A]

Well, you committed to it. You committed to it in a very adorable way. Very adorable.

[D]

Doing my best Joe Buck there.

[A]

Yeah, it was good. It was really good. It was just as I said, it was so different from the normal like guy parts on our show, which are like often a little blandish. I don't want to criticize them all, but. And then until we find out, whatever makes the relationship go wrong. Right? But like you were just full on out there the whole time. Like I thought it was so, so, so fantastic and perfect and that you were so young doing that I thought was just super interesting. And I'm curious what your experience was like, if you can remember when it aired.

[D]

Well, I went to a couple of my friends from that terrible acting school had HBO and they were in Union, New Jersey. So I went over to Union to watch it. Okay. And so that was, that was that.

[A]

Did they like it? Like, were you, were they impressed? Okay, okay. Did people shout at you on the street and say like Sam Jones?

[D]

No, no, no, I really have not. I, it's, it's the funny, funny thing is like I, I feel like I'm seldom recognized for that, understandably because you're

[A]

like a grown up now.

[D]

But I mean, it's like every seven years somebody recognizes me from it or I have find myself in a conversation where they're like, but you're Sam Jones. You know, you're like, it's a really famous thing, right? Really? And they're like, yeah. I'm like, okay.

[A]

Well, it is, it stands out. It really does.

[D]

But then six years of silence from the world passes and then another somebody comes up and is like, you're Sam Jones. Right? And I'm like, is it?

[A]

I think it's because you don't seem like you're insane. You know, like that's probably a good thing that you're not walking around like shouting manic things. Right.

[D]

If that's going to get me the people the recognition I deserve, then we'll see.

[A]

Okay. If you feel one day like you need a little recognition, just start shouting names. Either Sam Jones or anyone's name. I Bet you could, you could get some attention. Well, I think it's really amazing and I'm sorry that you were like running seven miles a day and not really eating when you were with us, but I'm so glad that you found your way out of it.

[D]

You know, you can achieve certain states of bliss when you're starving yourself.

[A]

That is so, so true. Not that we recommend that to anyone. Right. Definitely.

[D]

Amazing. The endurance of the human metabolism.

[A]

That's so true. But also like just so fascinating. And I know as. I mean, I think I've probably gone on record many a time talking about the crazy dieting that I've done through my career. So, so bad. Probably not, I don't think, to the extent that you're describing because I probably would never remembered my lines at a certain point, you know what I'm saying? Like, at a certain point you can't really function, you know?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I would just break down and eat French fries or something. But I mean, I've gone on really long times where I'm like eating M and Ms. Like, I would just have some thing where I'd be like, I'm just gonna eat em.

[D]

Just MMs.

[F]

Yes. Like, so bad.

[A]

So bad. And you can really kind of go for a while like that, you know, it's interesting. Yeah, it's not great. Not great. Not great for your health. But. But yeah, when you're, you know, like if you have some scene and in your young mind you've built it up, you know, and you're nervous and you're not going to wear a lot of clothes or you've got really tight clothes or whatever it is, and you're like, I just have to make it to that scene. So I'm just not going to eat till then, you know, like craziness, craziness. Actors do. I mean, everyone, I guess everyone does this, right? I mean, I don't know if everyone but people are prone to be doing things like this.

[D]

Yeah, I. Yeah, it's. Maybe with actors it's more transient because it is attached to a job as opposed to something that's so baked in neuroses.

[A]

It's true. It's true. Though I do think, I think our neuroses are, you know, baked in and then kind of like stirred by the job, you know what I'm saying? Like, I certainly had a lot of people telling me that I wasn't thin enough. Right. Like it wasn't just me, you know.

[D]

I mean. Yeah. So you know the stuff they tell you in this business that's accepted as normal is. Yeah.

[A]

Pretty bonkers. Yeah.

[D]

You. You wonder what kind of person you'd be if you never had done this.

[A]

I mean, absolutely. But I also feel, and I mean, this is just me, but I also feel like if I hadn't had a job where I was able to express myself, I don't know what would have happened to me either. Right.

[D]

That's true.

[A]

You know, like, it's positives, negatives, you

[D]

know, it's like the thing when in, I don't know, hanging out in LA or trying to make. Worm my way into the improv scene for a while and these. Be finding myself in these constant contests of one upmanship and strange high school kind of mentality and being insecure and always trying to be the wittiest in the room, and then finding myself hanging out with my cousins or people who are not in the business at all, and all of a sudden feeling, oh, I'm like Robin Williams. To normal people. Yes. But to entertainers, I'm like, not. Definitely not Robin Williams.

[A]

Yes, it's a good point. It's a really good point. And I do think you kind of get into, like an insular thing of like, when you're in New York or LA trying to do the, you know, the job and hanging with all the people, you can feel like, gosh, I. I'm like this wallpaper. You know what I mean? Like, I'm nothing. Then you go out in the real world, you're like, oh, yeah, no, no, no, no, don't fit in here either. You know what I mean? Like, it's interesting. It's really interesting. So I, I'm also curious because you've gone on to do many, many TV shows and things, all kind of stuff. Do you like it? Like, what was your favorite job?

[D]

I think pound for pound, my favorite job, which was another starving one, was the Pacific for hbo.

[A]

Yeah, that was really good.

[D]

It was very intense and we were all starving ourselves because those guys were supposed to be starving.

[A]

Yeah,

[D]

yeah. And it was. It felt like it's a very serious subject. We were being watched by actual Marines, some of whom were cycling back to Iraq at the time. Wow. And that for them, the Pacific Theater was like their. Their Lord of the Rings, I suppose.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

And so you felt a great responsibility to not ham your way through it.

[A]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[D]

And so it felt. And we didn't have, you know, you didn't. The mentality about it was anyone who used a set chair or who, who, who indulged in any of the creature comforts. Who didn't, who didn't participate in the push up contests or the stupid things you do. It just felt like, it felt like a real. Not a real job, but it felt like. It didn't feel like you were the spoiled actor on set and everybody else was, you know, lifted you, you lifted your weapon, you lifted your, your machine gun emplacement and you carried it with you.

[A]

Wow. Incredible. I mean, what an amazing job to be a part of.

[D]

Yeah, it was amazing.

[A]

Yeah, that's fantastic. I mean, that's what we all want, right? Something that's like bigger than us that you're just lucky to be a part of.

[D]

Yeah, I wish they did, you know, boot camp for romantic comedies and stuff

[A]

that would be interesting and funny. I mean, first of all, we'd have to get someone to make some romantic comedies, which right now really no one doing. Sadly, I think sadly, though, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if you've seen, I don't know if you watch tv, but have you seen Heated Rivalry?

[D]

No, but I've certainly heard about it.

[A]

The thing that I love about it, I love many things about it, but one thing that I love about it, and this I think is for, for me as an actor, as someone who's been part of a romantic comedy for a long time and you know, you watch romantic comedies and they kind of go through phases about how they're done and how people respond to them. And it seemed like for a while irony seemed to be very important to romantic comedies. Like people couldn't really buy in without it. And then like at a certain point there's just kind of like people aren't going to buy in at all.

[D]

Right.

[A]

Like, so no one's going to make them, which is really sad. Of course he did. Rivalry about two closeted hockey players has the most powerful romantic comedy payoff at the final episode. Or wait, it's not even the final episode. It's the fifth episode. It's a six episode thing. The fifth episode. I think there's a payoff. Like it's such a kind of almost textbook romantic comedy type of a scene that if it weren't closeted hockey players, I don't know if audiences could really like buy in and have the full experience of what it is. Like, it's so beautifully done, the way they lead up to it, the editing, the writing, all the different parts, you know, the different characters are interconnected in this scene. It's so beautifully crafted that it makes me want to watch the whole thing all over again just for the craft of that.

[D]

You see the pieces being put into place.

[A]

Yes. And having it actually work, like, it's kind of blows my mind still just thinking about it. But it makes me think about, you know, like, Jacob Tierney, the showrunner. He should be teaching a romantic comedy boot camp. Do you know what I mean? Because he knows what he's doing. And I'm not saying that other people don't, obviously. You know, we. I think we did a fantastic job of a very long term, you know, romantic comedy TV show, which is kind of unheard of. Right. Because it's. It's not a sitcom. It's not, you know, like, you had a sitcom class, which is also, like a very specific art form. Right. But, like, also weird to have a class of it. I. I don't know. It's all very weird.

[D]

But they didn't teach us. The thing is, they didn't te. Just act. It's not like they taught us sitcom style acting.

[A]

Oh, no.

[D]

Like, it began with the Honeymooners and then it moved on to I Love Lucy.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

The Swiss Family Robinson or whatever. And it was just bizarre.

[A]

That is bizarre. I mean, because sitcom acting is hard in its own way, right? Because you've got an audience. You've got like a set behind you. You have to kind of like, it's like your theater, because you can't, you know, you don't want to upstage yourself, but yet you also have to make it seem natural and tell the jokes. I mean, obviously, very. We're having, like, hardcore actor talk now. But, like, if someone really taught that, I think that would be interesting. You know, though I don't know how many sitcoms.

[D]

Sitcom, four camera stuff is very bizarre.

[A]

It is very bizarre. I agree. And hard. I find it really hard to do. There was a certain point of the show where I thought, you know, I want to go on some sitcoms, because people would talk to me about, like, oh, you know, we should develop a sitcom for you when the show was over, when Sex and the City's over. But I was like, ugh, I'm scared. I'm scared. I don't know about that. So at one point, I went on Friends as a guest star. I went on Will and Grace as a guest star. It was really, really fun, but still very terrifying. Like, you'd walk out and they'd all clap. Like on Broadway, where you just have to somehow hold.

[D]

Oh, yeah. I hate that on Broadway.

[A]

It's so hard.

[D]

I hate that on Broadway.

[A]

Right.

[D]

I mean, it's like, I don't care who it is. It's just you're totally destroying the reality.

[A]

I agree. And I think the audience means it as a positive thing, Right? But as an actor, like, it's very strange.

[D]

You pay $900 to see Denzel Washington. You want to make sure that, like,

[A]

yep, I'm getting my money's worth 100%. 100%. And I think people genuinely love Denzel Washington, right. Or whoever it is, right? So they want to. They have a moment where they're like, live with them, basically, right? Which is the joy of theater, of course. So they're like, I'm going to show him, right in this moment. I'm going to clap really hard. But then as an actor, you're just trying to breathe and, like, stay still or whatever. Like, it's really strange. It's really, really strange.

[D]

And you came on. They clapped when you came on.

[A]

They did.

[D]

And you must also feel like, I haven't earned. You don't know what I'm going to do.

[A]

Yes, it's very weird, right? Because it's not for the part that you're doing. It's just for your general, you know, being or whatever, like Sex in the City. But yet you're on Friends or you're on Will and Grace. It was very strange and mortifying. Like. Like I felt so. Like egg was just running down my face. You know what I mean? Like, I felt so embarrassed. But everyone's always super, you know, Like, James Burroughs was directing Will and Grace, who's like a great, you know, great. Like, if you ever want to be on a sitcom, be on a sitcom with James Burroughs directing. He will take care of you. And he was like, just breathe. Just breathe. Just breathe and hold. Don't. Don't ruin the next laugh. Don't keep going. Because my. My inner anxiety would be like, I'm just gonna push through. I'm just gonna keep going. But you kind of can't. You gotta wait. You gotta wait. Yeah, it's super interesting. Acting's weird, don't you think?

[D]

Do I think it's weird? No.

[A]

Really interesting. Okay.

[D]

You know what I think is weird?

[A]

What?

[D]

This is what I think is weird. I think it's. I'm very. I've been very nervous about this whole thing.

[A]

I have to tell you what, being on my podcast.

[D]

Yeah, Being. Being any. In any. Anytime I've done a red carpet interview or any interview anywhere, I'm incredibly self conscious about it. I find it interesting that we live in this world where the people who have found a purpose in pretending to be anybody other than themselves are expected somehow to be happy and most joyous when everyone's paying attention to them as they are.

[A]

So true.

[D]

I'm not. I've never been. I think there's species of actors or there's species of. You know. And I'm not. I'm. I've really gotten a lot of respect from Robert De Niro just as a. As a public person, because people criticize him for being a terrible interview. But I, I'm like, he. He's not a personality, right? He's not a guy. Like, he's. And that's. You're not, you're. That. That's not what's interesting to him. I'm sure he's a fascinating person.

[A]

When there's no camera, he's definitely fascinating.

[D]

I don't want. I don't care about, like, it's. Even saying this right now is terrifying to me. I'm going to regret it immediately.

[A]

No, no, you're great. Oh, my God. Please don't regret it. Please don't regret it. So this is what I want to say.

[D]

I'm not going to regret the whole thing.

[A]

Oh, thank God.

[D]

I'm going to regret. I'm going to. No, I'm going to.

[A]

Yeah, no, don't regret it because I completely understand what you're saying.

[D]

I'm looking at an empty glass. There's nothing here.

[A]

I love it. Just pretend to drink it. Okay. You're acting. Go ahead. So this is what I think is so great. I think that there is a general misconception that somehow actors all want to do stuff like this. Right? We all want to do red carpet interviews. We all want to be on talk shows. We all want to be talking and the center of attention.

[D]

I thought that's what I wanted when I started too. You know, I think, I don't know, I think a lot of my friends, you know, a lot of people, there's something that makes you want to put yourself in a position where the world adores you. There's some kind of basic lack of There whole need. And I think what happened to me very early on in the business, from what I witnessed, is that being famous does not absolve you of being an. And it does not actually make you immortal.

[A]

No.

[D]

So what. Why. You know, and it's. Yeah, so that's one. And those, those I. Those delusions kind of crumble, right?

[A]

I think that's really great.

[D]

Then you start coveting fame just because you realize, oh, this is currency. And I will work more if I have more of this.

[A]

Absolutely. Which is very real. That's very real. It's unfortunate, but it's very real. Like, it's not talent. It's the currency of being well known or being your last project or whatever it is.

[D]

And I think just more just being. You know, we live in this time now when social media and whatever the. The kids are into these days, those, they are getting TV shows, they are getting represented by huge agencies, people who watch video games online and comment on them, and that's how they make their millions. That's what. Yeah, isn't that that guy PewDiePie? That's what he did.

[A]

I don't know who you're talking about, but I believe you.

[D]

I barely. I saw some daily on him or something.

[A]

Oh, my God, he's made like hundreds

[D]

of millions of, like, millions and me. And he started. He's just a guy from Norway or something commenting on.

[A]

I mean, it's fully bonkers out there, okay?

[D]

Commenting on video games. And that's how he.

[A]

Well, this is what I think about that. I think that, yes, the world is. Is nuts. And we're living through this humongous change with AI and all the things. And I think that we as actors just have to remain calm, like, remain grounded, try to protect ourselves and keep doing what we do. Because I have to believe that in the end, people are going to be attracted to actual, real storytelling, you know, which is what. That's actually what we do. That's what we want to.

[D]

I agree with you.

[A]

Right.

[D]

I agree with you. I think the question might be, will they be able to tell the difference?

[A]

I think so. See, I personally think so, because I do not think. I mean, I just feel like I also just have to be hopeful because what's the point of not? I, you know, I can't get my mind around the fact that this wouldn't be true. But, like, I, I don't see how. Like, you know, how. For instance. Okay, let's think about you in this part, right? You're like a kid. You're a kid and you are bold and out there and surprising. And I don't even know what you're going to do next when I'm watching you, which is partly why I wanted to talk to you today. And you are not disappointing, I want to add, as yourself. So how could AI replicate a human and then surprise us? I don't think it could happen. Do you know what I'm saying? I haven't seen it happen yet. I don't think it could happen.

[D]

I get. I suppose, but then don't. There are actors. I'm sure you have. I have them who I. Who are. And this is petty. Yes. But I who star in movies, and I'm not going to name them, but I see them and I know every single movement they're going to make before they do it. I know you're saying everything they're going to do.

[A]

That's true. That's true. That's a valid point. That's a valid point. But I also feel like, you know, until we see a successful, you know, show written by AI which hasn't happened. Right. Like, we're about to see a bunch of shows about AI writing. Right. Like, the Comeback is gonna be. It's coming back. The Comeback is coming back on hbo, and it's gonna be about the first sitcom written by AI which I think is gonna be pretty funny because it's Michael Patrick and Lisa Kudrow. But I still am not convinced. Everything that I have seen and or read, like, my daughter's 14, she's in school, and there's a whole thing about, you know, whether they've used AI for their homework. Right. It's like a whole situation.

[D]

You read the Anxious Generation. Yeah.

[A]

No joke. They are the anti Anxious Generation. It's for real. Oh, it's scary. Yeah, it's scary.

[D]

Is your dog. What's your daughter's stat? I'm not. No, I'm not gonna pry into your daughter's life.

[A]

Yeah, probably not. I shouldn't even bring her up. But it's hard not to because of everything that we're talking about for the young people. We. We remember life before. Right. Thank God. You know, they don't really have a life before all this stuff.

[F]

Like, it's.

[A]

It's kind of. Kind of cuckoo.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

There's people in my personal life.

[A]

Yes. Younger people.

[D]

Younger people who. Who have.

[A]

Are they there? Are they in the room?

[D]

Always there.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

They're. They. They. The concept of. When I first met these younger people, the concept of not contacting somebody. Well, like, letting contact go for eight hours with no contact in terms of, like, well, I didn't know what you were doing. I didn't know where you were. I didn't know. Yeah, I'm from the. I'm from the 90s. That's.

[A]

Yeah, we're from the analog world. It's true.

[D]

You don't have to give a report every few hours. That's true.

[A]

But that person just loves you and you when wants to know where you are and wants to feel that connection, I can tell what that person's thinking. It's sweet.

[D]

You'd be the first one.

[A]

I love it. Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession. Are you a Charlotte listeners? You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing, that adrenaline hit is real. I went on to ebay to look for a super special vintage jacket for Charlotte to wear to the gallery and I found the most amazing Mugler jacket and the costume department loved it and it felt so good and I still have it at home. Like when you score that rare Adidas collab that's lived on your mood board or the Dior saddlebag that you ripped right out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over. Yeah, those. It's about the thrill and the pursuit of finding those pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity Guarantee EBAY Things People Love this

[E]

episode is brought to you by Spreaker, the platform responsible for a rapidly spreading condition known as podcast brain. Symptoms include buying microphones you don't need, explaining RSS feeds to confused relatives, and saying things like, sorry, I can't talk right now, I'm editing audio. If this sounds familiar, you're probably already a podcaster. The good news is Spreaker makes the whole process simple. You record your show, upload it once, and Spreaker distributes it everywhere. People listen. Apple podcasts, Spotify, and about a dozen apps your cousin swears are the next big thing. Even better, Spreaker helps you monetize your show with ads, meaning your podcast might someday pay for, well, more microphones. Start your show [e-mail] spreaker because if you're going to talk to yourself for an hour, you might as well publish it.

[C]

Next Monday, our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards are happening live at south by Southwest.

[A]

This is the biggest night in podcasting.

[C]

We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry.

[A]

And the winner is.

[C]

Creativity, knowledge and passion will all be on full display.

[A]

Thank you so much, iheartradio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome.

[C]

Watch live next Monday at 8:00pm Eastern, 5:00pm Pacific. [e-mail] or the Veeps app.

[D]

I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's the Bachelor.

[G]

Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The Internet turned on him.

[D]

If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

[G]

But what happened to Clayton? After the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal.

[A]

The media is here. This case has gone viral.

[D]

The dating contract.

[A]

Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you.

[D]

Police. Search warrant.

[C]

This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

[G]

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said and the search for accountability in a sea of lies.

[A]

I have done nothing except get pregnant by the Bachelor.

[G]

Listen to Love trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[F]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.

[D]

He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground.

[F]

He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.

[D]

I'm like, lord, this can't be real.

[B]

I thought it was a mistaken identity.

[D]

The best lie is partial truth.

[F]

For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything.

[D]

I was a monster.

[F]

Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

Okay, wait, I had more questions, but you're just too interesting. And we're so off on a. But, like, I mean, wow, I'm so happy that you talked to us because first of all, you're like one of those mystery people who are just on our show once and then they go away. And that's who my. My podcast people love it when I can find you guys. Like, and all of you are fascinating. Okay. I have to give a lot of credit to Jennifer McNamara, our casting agent. I mean, man, did she find some great people like yourself. Incredible.

[D]

Good for her.

[A]

Yeah, and good for you for being like. Like having these crazy, wild ambitions to be James. I fucking love it.

[D]

Who is your guy or gal?

[A]

Meryl. Meryl. I mean, there's nobody but Meryl for us, you know? Really? You know what I mean? Like, who could ever. I don't. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, there are other people. Like, I always loved Holly Hunter.

[D]

Oh, sure.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Because she's Southern and I'm Southern, so I liked that. I mean, there's so many great ones, but when I was really young, it was Meryl, like the French lieutenant's wife, you know, like that kind of like mysterious Meryl.

[D]

I think all Ironweed is. Is that scene where she sings He's My Pal.

[A]

Oh, my God. Whenever she sings. Incredible. It's incredible. You know, she's on murder. Murders in the buildings. Only murders in the buildings. I don't know. If you watch this show and there's an episode in it, early on, she plays an actress, a kind of unemployed actress when we first meet her, who's just lived her whole life in this kind of tiny apart and has so much talent, but it hasn't worked out for her. And then she gets a part, which is great. But she has an episode where she sings. I mean, only murders in the building. Making me cry. Like, just bam. Cause she's Meryl. It's magic. It's magic. But, yeah, I mean, the fun thing, it's fun to remember the life that we used to live.

[D]

Right.

[A]

The purity that we experienced in the analog world. But you know what I love? I love also that we're still here. We're still cranking along. We are bringing our memories with us right into the future. And it's really, really nice to talk to you and I appreciate you overcoming your fears or whatever to come on because. Wow. Fantastic episode.

[D]

Hey. Okay, well. Okay, that's good to know.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my God. You're super interesting. I could continue to talk to you, but I know promised you that I wouldn't keep you very long because you didn't want me to, but. Wow. You know, I wish you had more memories about how your acting class friends responded, but maybe you're just. Maybe. Maybe they've gone with time. Or maybe maybe they didn't.

[D]

Oh, it's. It's a. It's a while in the rear view.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

If Stacy and Scott San Clemente are listening out there. Hi.

[A]

I love it. I love it. I love it. It's fun. Thank you. Thank you so much, Jacob. You're very interesting. I'm going to have to follow and watch everything you do now.

[D]

I barely do anything.

[A]

Well, I don't think that'll last long. I'll hire you.

[D]

All right.

[A]

Okay, great. Have a great day, too. Okay, bye. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.