John Benjamin Hickey (4:10)

Yay.

Kristin Davis (4:11)

Now we are a little past his episode. I've been trying to get him on. Okay. He's a hot ticket, you guys.

John Benjamin Hickey (4:17)

I know. I didn't realize I was so.

Kristin Davis (4:18)

He's busy.

John Benjamin Hickey (4:19)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (4:19)

You were much desired.

John Benjamin Hickey (4:20)

I'm trying to figure out what I was doing that I could be so unavailable, but here I am.

Kristin Davis (4:24)

That's okay. It was important stuff. You told me at the premiere what you're doing, and I totally understand. Yes. It's okay. It's okay. But you're here now, and that's all that matters. So John is in the first season, which really surprised both of us.

John Benjamin Hickey (4:35)

Yeah, exactly.

Kristin Davis (4:36)

We thought it was like later on in the run.

John Benjamin Hickey (4:39)

Absolutely. I would have put probably said end of the second. Maybe even the third season.

Kristin Davis (4:43)

The third. Which I think of as our best season. If we have to pick an overall.

John Benjamin Hickey (4:48)

Season, barring my episode.

Kristin Davis (4:49)

Well, your episode. That's why I'm saying I would put it in the best because it's such a good episode and it was written by Michael Patrick King, which you can completely tell.

John Benjamin Hickey (4:57)

Oh, God, yes.

Kristin Davis (4:58)

John plays the Catholic guy. He has a real name. It's called Thomas John Anderson, which is kind of funny because he's John Benjamin Hickey.

John Benjamin Hickey (5:05)

Three names for three names.

Kristin Davis (5:06)

And he's playing Michael Patrick Kings, basically in his own episode. And he is called the Catholic Guy. That's what we call him in the shorthand to the Friends. And he's opposite Cynthia, and they are incredible. This episode was directed by Matthew Harrison. We don't have a ton of memories about him. We're really sorry. I always apologize if I don't remember the direction.

John Benjamin Hickey (5:24)

I have vivid memories of MPK not directing me, but just he's such a brilliant, extraordinary presence on set and his writing was so great that I remember him and of course have known him all these years after.

Kristin Davis (5:36)

Right.

John Benjamin Hickey (5:37)

But yeah, I don't remember the director as well. I know, but that's not because he didn't direct a great episode.

Kristin Davis (5:41)

Absolutely.

John Benjamin Hickey (5:41)

Because that episode, a good director disappears a little bit.

Kristin Davis (5:44)

This is a good point. And you also direct. So you know very well. You know very well. So tell us your memories and your thoughts about the new. It was relatively new show.

John Benjamin Hickey (5:52)

Yeah. How is this a G rated program?

Kristin Davis (5:54)

No, you can say anything.

John Benjamin Hickey (5:55)

Okay, great. Well, what I vividly remember is being on top of Cynthia, having in being in the throes of passion and having orgasm after or fake orgasm after orgasm and getting up and showering and you know, a lot of people have seen it in syndication and all that stuff's out, but in the, I guess the DVD or box set or whatever you call it these days, you see all of those sex scenes. So what I remember most vividly is being in bed in flagrante with Cynthia Nixon. Thank goodness I had known her. We had done a play together, which is the. You get very intimate very quickly is by being on stage together. And we had such a great time doing this play and such a great rapport and such great trust that we immediately threw ourselves into it. And, you know, this was before Sex and the City was Sex and the City. So going to that set and having to do such a huge sex scene was really nerve wracking. Nerve wracking. So that's my biggest memory is just being on top of Cynthia. And you know, and then the casual. After an hour or two, it becomes so casual like, what are you gonna have for lunch? I think I'm gonna have that. You know.

Kristin Davis (7:12)

Totally.

John Benjamin Hickey (7:13)

We're both naked. I mean, we all had. We've talked about socks and all that stuff.

Kristin Davis (7:18)

Yeah, right, right, right.

John Benjamin Hickey (7:20)

I guess I remember the sock as well.

Kristin Davis (7:22)

There you go. Very memorable. I mean, the thing about Cynthia too, which is a theme in every guy that I've ever spoken to who was opposite hers, that she has no real fear or self consciousness about it.

John Benjamin Hickey (7:34)

Yeah, no, she doesn't. But listen, this is the. All of your reputations precede you when actors go on your show. And this was true 20 how many years ago? 25 years ago.

Kristin Davis (7:46)

27 or 6.

John Benjamin Hickey (7:47)

Unbelievable. And now you get a job on that show, and you're excited to go there because of the way you guys treat people. It's. Guesting on a show, even if you're in the first season or now, is like being forced to go to somebody else's office Christmas party. You know, there might be a little bit of a feeling of nobody really understands why you're there, but you're there. And so it's very important for the top of the call sheet to treat people. You know this very, very well, to make people feel comfortable. One of the biggest parts of the job. And this was a show that did that even then. And, you know, Cynthia was amazing that way because she's so free, she's such a great actress and so unintimidated and unintimidating.

Kristin Davis (8:38)

Absolutely. I mean, it's funny because she. Sometimes I would be so worried if she had one of these scenes, because I was like, she's not going to take care of herself. And, you know, not with you, because you're a. But, like, sometimes people would just grab her in all crazy ways, and no one would say, like, stop. And I think, like, I should go. I should go and just be like, delicate, delicate, delicate, you know? But she didn't care. And that's so freeing when you're watching her, you know?

John Benjamin Hickey (9:02)

Yeah, really. She's really fearless. We went on to do another series together called the Big C and had so many sex scenes. Like, I think maybe as many sex scenes as Cynthia has played over the years. I might be at the top of the list of the. Just the quantity. I love it and I hope the quality, too.

Kristin Davis (9:22)

I'm sure.

John Benjamin Hickey (9:22)

But we did a lot together, and. Oh, my God, by the end of our run on the Big C together, we were like, you know, amazing. Like an old married couple.

Kristin Davis (9:30)

I know, but I love that because you're so perfectly matched. You know, you are so complex as an actor, which I think you often, like, are more into your directing now and whatever. But to me, whenever I watch you on film, you're so complicated. And she also has so many layers, and she kind of does it so effortlessly, which you as well, because you've been doing it so long. It's very interesting to watch. I could see why they would cast you again opposite each other. It makes perfect sense. So way back. Take yourself way back. Do you remember, like, what were you doing? You'd done this play with Cynthia. You were on Broadway. You were doing.

John Benjamin Hickey (10:01)

Yep. I want to say I did a Play at Playwrights Horizons called On the Bum with Cynthia, which is one of the great experiences of both of our lives. I think she would say the same. It's just an amazing group of actors, a very large cast, and all of Off Broadway's finest Campbell Scott and. Yeah, just incredible people. And Cynthia and I really had a great bond. I do remember that her mother sent me a note. Cynthia was very. And if her mom liked an actor, she was playing opposite. You really rose in ranks. You rose in her eyes. So I'm still very proud of that. And so I feel like I knew going in that I was gonna be well taken care of. I don't remember. I don't think I auditioned for the part. I think I was offered the part.

Kristin Davis (10:54)

It's so perfect.

John Benjamin Hickey (10:55)

Yeah. Which was very rare back then. I auditioned for everything and happily would audition again if it was a role like. What's his name? Paul Thomas Anderson. No, that's the director.

Kristin Davis (11:04)

Thomas John Anderson.

John Benjamin Hickey (11:05)

Thomas John Anderson. But I don't remember auditioning for it.

Kristin Davis (11:10)

But would that have been Sarah Jessica's role relationship with you?

John Benjamin Hickey (11:14)

Maybe. Yes. We were close back then, but we got really close. Maybe in seasons three, four, and five, we got closer as friends. Then in the beginning, I don't think we were quite that close. We knew each other, but not that well.

Kristin Davis (11:29)

Right.

John Benjamin Hickey (11:31)

To be completely honest. I don't know. I don't know.

Kristin Davis (11:34)

I think it was. Cause you were so perfect for that part, I guess.

John Benjamin Hickey (11:39)

And, you know. But there's a. A fear in that, because if you haven't auditioned, you're going in and you're thinking, I hope they think they've made the right decision, and I hope I don't show up. And they're like, oh, that's not what we wanted. Because if you have auditioned, then they've seen what you.

Kristin Davis (11:57)

What you're bringing.

John Benjamin Hickey (11:58)

Yeah, what you're bringing.

Kristin Davis (11:58)

Totally. Totally.

John Benjamin Hickey (11:59)

So I went in cold. And when you're having to do nude scenes, you want to be very warm. You want to be warm. But I warmed up pretty quickly, and I think it was one day, maybe.

Kristin Davis (12:11)

You're kidding.

John Benjamin Hickey (12:11)

Yeah, well, maybe.

Kristin Davis (12:12)

Oh, my God, you're so tremendous. It's crazy to think you would have done that in one day. Cause you're so mad. You get so angry when she tries to tell you not to shower.

John Benjamin Hickey (12:21)

Yes.

Kristin Davis (12:22)

And I mean the rage.

John Benjamin Hickey (12:23)

Complete Catholic meltdown. Oh, excuse me. I'm so sorry that you think I'm not gonna go to hell for having sex. Yeah.

Kristin Davis (12:31)

Yeah. That fixes it. You're like, that fixes it right away.

John Benjamin Hickey (12:34)

Yeah, totally.

Kristin Davis (12:35)

It's so good.

John Benjamin Hickey (12:36)

And I vividly remember mpk and the wonderful director saying, go further. Cause, you know, I was a theater actor and I was like, oh, boy, that was probably really over the top. And Michael was like, no, get madder. Go further. Really lose your on her and loving it and having a ball. And at that point, we had simulated sex and orgasm so many times together that we could do anything. Beware of that.

Kristin Davis (13:04)

Absolutely. Absolutely. So for me, when I think back on the first season, this is what's been so interesting to rewatch it. First of all, I thought the first season that we weren't together. When I watch it back, I'm like, all the pieces are there. We might not have been completely structurally together. The writing, but the acting and everything is so great, so much better than I remember. But we definitely did the whole first season without anything airing, which is kind of wonderful in a way, because you're just being creative without any outside input. But also scary, kind of not auditioning for a part.

John Benjamin Hickey (13:36)

Right.

Kristin Davis (13:36)

Because you have no idea how people are going to respond.

John Benjamin Hickey (13:39)

Absolutely.

Kristin Davis (13:39)

And I remember having a lot of anxiety about that and talking to each other, like, are people going to freak out? Which some people did. Right?

John Benjamin Hickey (13:45)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (13:46)

And then it went well, and it got bigger and bigger. Like, third season is when I consider us to have gotten kind of really popular. That's what I felt, at least.

John Benjamin Hickey (13:53)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (13:53)

But do you remember, like, what was your feeling being on the show and then having people see it as you describe?

John Benjamin Hickey (14:01)

The only way I can really articulate it is very niche. Like, my family in Texas didn't have hbo, so. And I was probably relieved because there was so much sex going on that I probably had some relief in that. But I remember it being very blue, you know, blue as in a little more than R rated for the time, especially now, it's like, you know. But it felt way out in Queens.

Kristin Davis (14:32)

Yes.

John Benjamin Hickey (14:34)

And I mean that in the metaphoric sense as well. It seemed like to be way over there, HBO was so the wild, wild West.

Kristin Davis (14:43)

And it was.

John Benjamin Hickey (14:44)

Yeah. And it's interesting because I'm good pals with Darren Star, because my partner Jeffrey Richmond, and he created this beautiful show called Uncoupled Together. And I've spent time with Darren through the years, but he talks about that first season, and he's very articulate about, like, none of us knew really what we had or what. You guys had worked together before, of course, but he and Sarah had never worked together. And then Michael Coming in and doing such an amazing job, kind of helping the show explode. And Darren gives him such major props for that.

Kristin Davis (15:19)

I'm so glad.

John Benjamin Hickey (15:19)

Yeah. So. But everybody to a person never really talked to MPK about it or like, wow, I wonder if this is ever going to catch more than just a specific population's imagination. Because it was really out there.

Kristin Davis (15:38)

Yeah.

John Benjamin Hickey (15:39)

So that's basically my memory.

Kristin Davis (15:41)

That's exactly what I felt.

John Benjamin Hickey (15:42)

It wasn't tv, baby. It was hbo. Yeah.

Kristin Davis (15:45)

Yeah.

John Benjamin Hickey (15:46)

And TV was a completely different thing. And now, of course, everything is kind of melded together. And Sex and the City was the pioneer of that.

Kristin Davis (15:55)

Thank you. That's so nice.

John Benjamin Hickey (15:56)

It really is. Was.

Kristin Davis (15:58)

So tell me. When I saw you at the premiere, which was so nice to see you there at our crazy, crazy party that they threw for us.

John Benjamin Hickey (16:04)

It's insane. I've never seen more people in my life. And let me just say too, that like, I live right down the street from where the party was. So we threw on a pair of jeans. Like, let's just go say hi. I mean. Cause Sex and the City and just like that have been such a part of my life. Our lives, of course. So long. I. I don't think of it as a big deal. This party was so fucking packed. And so packed with young people. I know young, young people who were just so happy to be there.

Kristin Davis (16:31)

They were so sweet.

John Benjamin Hickey (16:32)

It did my heart so good.

Kristin Davis (16:34)

Me too.

John Benjamin Hickey (16:34)

This show means so much to so many people, not just us old folks.

Kristin Davis (16:39)

Absolutely. Absolutely. And also, this was the first time that they had thrown this type of an event for us. We used to, in the olden days, which I'm sure you came have those huge parties with the PR and that bed in front of like Lincoln Center. Do you remember this? Like insane level parties. But this was not a premiere exactly. So we didn't exactly know how to dress. We didn't really know what we were doing. And we didn't really know who they invited. And they kept talking about activations which were still just like, what?

John Benjamin Hickey (17:07)

What is an activation? Will you tell me?

Kristin Davis (17:08)

Not knowing. It has to do with social media.

John Benjamin Hickey (17:11)

Oh boy.

Kristin Davis (17:11)

And I don't totally understand it, but in that party was a hot fellas activation. And that's why those guys were there dressed as hot fellas. And. Yes, Mario's Bakery. And. And maybe there was bread there. I don't know. I never saw any bread. But maybe there was bread. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But that was an activation. And then there was maybe another activation. I don't know. But, like, there were just a lot of people there.

John Benjamin Hickey (17:35)

Incredible.

Kristin Davis (17:36)

And I mean, very cool people were there who later texted me on Instagram that they'd been there because I couldn't find anybody. We were in that corner, and we were, like, trapped in that corner.

John Benjamin Hickey (17:44)

Incredible. Yeah. I mean, if you wanted a bread, a hot cross bun from one of those cute guys, you were about 45 minutes.

Kristin Davis (17:50)

Totally.

John Benjamin Hickey (17:50)

For about 25 yards.

Kristin Davis (17:52)

Totally. But it was so nice to see you. Oh, my God, it was amazing.

John Benjamin Hickey (17:55)

And also, you bring up, you know, the bakery, and you have such chemistry with such people who have been in my life. Mario and Evan. I mean, I've known Evan since, you know, he made this massive. Took New York by storm with his show Time Under Fire, which was about his sickness and. Yeah. And he was just always been one of my favorite actors and favorite people. And Cantone, of course, I've known Mario. Cantone replaced Nathan Lane in Love, Valor, Compassion, which is the first Broadway play I did.

Kristin Davis (18:25)

Wow.

John Benjamin Hickey (18:25)

And he and I were instant best buddies, and he remains one of my favorite people on the planet. And how hard it must be to go to work with Mario every day, because he's not funny.

Kristin Davis (18:37)

He doesn't know how to, you know, it's so painful. It's so painful. I mean, the one challenge is that Michael loves to give him, like, a lot of props, and that's not really Mario's thing.

John Benjamin Hickey (18:45)

No, no, no.

Kristin Davis (18:45)

Mario's like, please let me sing.

John Benjamin Hickey (18:46)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (18:47)

I just want to say I don't really want to do.

John Benjamin Hickey (18:48)

Give me a microphone.

Kristin Davis (18:49)

Exactly. Give me a microphone. Not a loaf of bread. But he. He's. He's growing and expanding. Yeah, he is every. Every season.

John Benjamin Hickey (18:56)

Incredible. Because he's not. I mean, he's a great actor, but it was. He hasn't done a lot of television.

Kristin Davis (19:00)

It wasn't his thing. When we hired him, he was. And he was only supposed to do a few episodes, as he told us when he came on the podcast, which is also what I love. And it's amazing, because as much as I know you, I don't even know all your connections. I just know that you're part of the family.

John Benjamin Hickey (19:13)

Well, that. Yeah. When you're on a show in New York and when it's as iconic a show as this New York show, as this is, and there are very few that are. You really do attract. That's one of the great things about shooting in New York City, man, is you get Franny Sternhagen, Mary Incelditz, you know, you get the greatest character actors in New York.

Kristin Davis (19:39)

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Kristin Davis (24:31)

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John Benjamin Hickey (25:59)

Yes. As she was so many. Many. Kevin Kline, Patti LuPone. From group one to. I was group 18 to probably group 35. Marianne was there ushering us into our careers and our lives as actors. And there was no greater teacher, no greater actor, no greater person of the theater in the history of the 20th century than Mary. Amazing.

Kristin Davis (26:22)

Her presence. I mean, she doesn't have a lot to do in our episode, but just her presence standing there is so powerful.

John Benjamin Hickey (26:28)

Absolutely absol. It was a real coup. And you were saying earlier she was so perfect as Big's mom because she's kind of a big person herself. Big presence.

Kristin Davis (26:37)

Yeah. Intimidating and kind of aloof to where you can't read her. And it makes such perfect sense for his character that he has a mom like that that he kind of caters to. You know, it's super interesting.

John Benjamin Hickey (26:48)

I did a production of the Crucible on Broadway, and with this great art.

Kristin Davis (26:52)

I believe I saw that it was.

John Benjamin Hickey (26:53)

Yeah. Laurel Linney, Liam Neeson. Amazing, amazing production. And the great actor Brian Murray was in it, who was Marian's best friend. And Marian came to see the show, and I said, oh, God, I hope Marian likes it. And he said, well, if she doesn't, you're never gonna know. I was like, what a great thing. Cause she's such a gracious, warm human being. She gives great backstage. You know, she's not there to tear anybody down. She's a. Yeah. Yeah. She was the greatest. The greatest.

Kristin Davis (27:18)

So you also said. When I saw you at the party, and I was. I just looked at you. I didn't even say anything. I don't think. And you were like, I'm coming on the podcast. I was like, thank God. Because I'd just been waiting. I'd just been wa. When you'd come. And you said, I have so many memories of Cynthia Michael. And I think you said, Sarah, too. So Even though you weren't super close. Do you remember those early days? Cause she remembers nothing.

John Benjamin Hickey (27:39)

Yeah. I just remember how lucky I felt. She had done a play at Lincoln center, and she. Even though she doesn't remember anything, she remembers meeting me, which is terribly flattering more than I do. She met me on the stairs of Lincoln center, and I think it was.

Kristin Davis (27:59)

What year was the first season we filmed in? 97. Didn't come on till 98.

John Benjamin Hickey (28:04)

Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Kristin Davis (28:06)

Yeah.

John Benjamin Hickey (28:08)

So we were really good pals by then, I think. I remember being very glad that my stuff was with Cynthia, because I had become the kind of friend with Sarah at that point that I would have been. I think I would have been more intimidated by taking my clothes off.

Kristin Davis (28:29)

And I mean, that would be weird.

John Benjamin Hickey (28:30)

And she would, too. I mean, she. As we both know, and I'm sure you've said many times, she's an incredibly shy, discreet person, that she is not Carrie Bradshaw, which is a testament to her just brilliant acting chops.

Kristin Davis (28:44)

Absolutely. And in my mind, just sidebar, because you know her so well, I believe that that's one of the things that makes Carrie so interesting.

John Benjamin Hickey (28:51)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (28:52)

Is Sarah's own differences from the character and that kind of internal conflict that. That comes from, that kind of friction, playing a character so long. But also, she just makes her so deep.

John Benjamin Hickey (29:03)

Yeah. So deep. So, so deep. She's very. All of you. It's like time has been so kind to those characters, and you guys have, too. Like, you're. It's like every. It's like you see it in your shoulders. Everybody is just so relaxed, even when they're playing the most fraught moments on the show. There's such a relaxation watching. And the newcomers as well.

Kristin Davis (29:24)

Oh, I know.

John Benjamin Hickey (29:25)

Are just absolutely. It's such a lovely family now. It's really, really great to see. But going back, I remember being glad it was Cynthia. Not because I didn't want to work with you or with Sarah. I didn't know you. And I knew Sarah in a way that would have been like, oh, man, I don't want to have to pretend to bang her.

Kristin Davis (29:43)

I know. That would be very weird. You know, I had to kiss Matthew in a movie.

John Benjamin Hickey (29:47)

Wow.

Kristin Davis (29:48)

After the show ended. So I had known him for many years, and I kept saying, this is so weird. And he was like, no, it isn't. And I was like, all right, Matthew. Not weird at all. Okay.

John Benjamin Hickey (29:58)

Yeah. Crazy.

Kristin Davis (29:58)

I didn't have to have sex. Thank God. Because I don't know how I would have gotten through it.

John Benjamin Hickey (30:02)

Yeah. That would be weird to kiss Matthew or Sarah. It would be strange. But Matthew's got that thing. Like, the couple of times I've seen Matthew nervous because I have directed him. It's weird to see Matthew because Matthew has lovely blood pressure maintenance. Like, he knows how to, in his work, be very still and very.

Kristin Davis (30:24)

That's true. It's scary.

John Benjamin Hickey (30:25)

Yeah, it's scary. It can intimidate the other person.

Kristin Davis (30:28)

Yes. That's how I felt.

John Benjamin Hickey (30:30)

Yeah. I'm like, trying to juggle kittens.

Kristin Davis (30:31)

Right? Me too.

John Benjamin Hickey (30:32)

You know, And Matthew's like, why don't you just sit here and we'll do the scene, you know? Yes.

Kristin Davis (30:36)

It's like that.

John Benjamin Hickey (30:37)

Totally.

Kristin Davis (30:38)

Okay. We got off on a Matthew tangent, which is rare because almost no one has Matthew stories.

John Benjamin Hickey (30:42)

Oh, my goodness. I have. Good. You're gonna have to. You should get Matthew on this podcast.

Kristin Davis (30:47)

I don't think he'll do it. I mean, every time I see him, I'm just like, Matthew. And he's like, oh, God, here she comes.

John Benjamin Hickey (30:53)

You'll get it. You'll get it.

Kristin Davis (30:54)

May. That would be awesome. Because I love to hear the memories of the beginning. And that's part of the reason I wanted to do the podcast, is because everyone was in such different places, coming from such different worlds. I mean, even Cynthia and Sarah, who had worked together, knowing each other their whole lives, almost still very different experiences. And then we all came together in this kind of crazy thing that just formed a new.

John Benjamin Hickey (31:13)

Yeah. And everybody has. What do they call it, you know, esprit de scalier, which is the French expression for spirit of the staircase. The thing you, like, if you and I are in a big fight and on my way home, what I should have said to her was, you remember the thing. So you have this odd 2020 hindsight with the show. Like you always thought or somehow knew that it could be what it has become, and. No, not at all. Never in a million years.

Kristin Davis (31:46)

It's true. No. Who could have dreamt this?

John Benjamin Hickey (31:48)

Okay, I know this is you interview, but when you signed on, were you, like, gung ho? I mean, yeah.

Kristin Davis (31:55)

Oh, I'm the most gung ho.

John Benjamin Hickey (31:57)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (31:57)

I'm the most gung ho still to this day.

John Benjamin Hickey (31:59)

Well, that's fantastic. That's really good.

Kristin Davis (32:02)

But in the beginning, because I was in la, right. But I had been an out of work actor here right after I went to Rutgers, right. With Bill Esper and everybody.

John Benjamin Hickey (32:09)

So.

Kristin Davis (32:09)

Yes.

John Benjamin Hickey (32:10)

Oh, yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant.

Kristin Davis (32:11)

Bill Esper. I know. Incredible. And I moved here like everybody did, and we were Poor. And, you know, you waitressed and you auditioned and whatnot. Right. Which is hard to be poor here.

John Benjamin Hickey (32:20)

Yeah, absolutely.

Kristin Davis (32:21)

Right.

John Benjamin Hickey (32:21)

Very hard.

Kristin Davis (32:22)

And then I went out to Berkeley. I did a play, and it was pilot season. My agent said, come down to LA on Mondays because there's so many parts you could play. Cause I was still playing pretty young at that point. And I was young and I was playing even younger.

John Benjamin Hickey (32:33)

Do you know what play you were doing, if you don't mind me asking?

Kristin Davis (32:35)

I was doing. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm not gonna remember.

John Benjamin Hickey (32:37)

Were you at Berkeley Rep? Yes, that's where I was when I couldn't do your podcast. I was doing a production of Uncle Vanya with Hugh Bonneville at Berkeley. Rap.

Kristin Davis (32:44)

Hugh Bonneville in the great Hugh Bonneville.

John Benjamin Hickey (32:46)

Yeah. Brilliant.

Kristin Davis (32:46)

The Speed of Light.

John Benjamin Hickey (32:48)

Oh, yeah. I feel like. I know. I feel like I know that play. And if you gave me more time, I would know who wrote it.

Kristin Davis (32:54)

Right. No, it's a. It's a great playwright who I think went to Rutgers.

John Benjamin Hickey (32:57)

Yeah, yeah.

Kristin Davis (32:58)

Oh, my God. We have to look this up.

John Benjamin Hickey (32:59)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (33:01)

Anyway, I was there, which was incredible. It's a special, special place. I love Berkeley Rep.

John Benjamin Hickey (33:05)

Brilliant, brilliant theater.

Kristin Davis (33:06)

It was great. It was great. But I went down to la. It was sunny. I auditioned for sitcoms. I was like, this seems an easier life than New York City as a poor person. Right.

John Benjamin Hickey (33:17)

There's more work.

Kristin Davis (33:17)

Yeah, more work then. And now it's totally flipped, which is so sad, but what can you do? So I went. I ended up moving to la. And then eventually, a few years later, I mean, I don't remember how many, but a lot of auditions later got Melrose. Then Darren sent me the script, and I was like, New York City, like, walking the streets. Four lead characters that are women. Unheard of. HBO confused, had the boxing, but hey.

John Benjamin Hickey (33:43)

Yeah. No other show pre Sopranos. Pre. You were it.

Kristin Davis (33:46)

Right.

John Benjamin Hickey (33:47)

So, yeah, but a couple of those. What would. Dream on.

Kristin Davis (33:50)

And also Larry Sanders.

John Benjamin Hickey (33:52)

Yes, of course.

Kristin Davis (33:52)

Which is obviously. But that's what I thought we would be a small cult, like, very industry, you know, loved show. And which is lived on, of course, because it's so great. Right?

John Benjamin Hickey (34:02)

It's weirdly, it's still that. What you just described. It's also just a global phenomenon as well.

Kristin Davis (34:07)

Yeah, exactly. Which is a weird. Like, it's a very weird and wonderful thing that happened, but in my gut. But I felt the potential. I never could have dreamt two movies and another show. There is no precedent to that. So that wouldn't have come. But to me, I felt, yes, it's very special and I will do whatever I have to do to be on that show with those women. And then once they told me, Sarah, because when Darren first sent it to me to read for Carrie and the way she was on the page was much more like Candace, you know, Persona. And I couldn't pull that off. Smoking and swearing and, you know, the it girl, I was like, that people are gonna laugh at me, right? So I was like, darren, please don't make me audition for that. I need to be this other one who's kind of in the side over here. That's me. And you know, thank God he listened.

John Benjamin Hickey (34:55)

And you really recognized like, oh, I've gotta think I relate to this part. That's incredible. Cause it's like all of you were born to play those parts, you know?

Kristin Davis (35:03)

I know. We're so lucky that we found it.

John Benjamin Hickey (35:06)

I do remember in the early days of casting. I remember. So Sarah and I certainly were hanging out enough to where she would talk to me about people that she was interested in for. I think it was probably Samantha. Cause I think Cynthia was in early on.

Kristin Davis (35:22)

I mean, Cynthia was in, but she didn't feel she was in. Like they kept her dangling, do you know what I mean? And then I remember at one point they were talking about hiring like a stand up comic or whatever for Miranda. Like they didn't know what to do, you know?

John Benjamin Hickey (35:36)

Yeah. And now that I'm really thinking about it, your brilliant casting director, Jennifer McNamara.

Kristin Davis (35:43)

Yes. But I don't think we had her for the pilot. I think we had Carrie Barton.

John Benjamin Hickey (35:46)

Carrie Barton, Carrie. Carrie.

Kristin Davis (35:47)

Of course, Jennifer. When the show started, it was so great.

John Benjamin Hickey (35:50)

And Jennifer's assistant, I think on that first season was my old college friend Camille. Hickman is her name. And Camille now works at Lincoln center and she's one of the great casting directors in New York. And she and I had been best buddies at Fordham University, where I had gone some 10 years before sex and the City. And she would talk to me about this show. It's so exciting and it's so weird and odd. I don't know if anybody's gonna see it. And I also remember very vividly Camille had a small part as one of the talking heads.

Kristin Davis (36:19)

Yes.

John Benjamin Hickey (36:19)

Because did you do talking heads through the whole first season?

Kristin Davis (36:22)

Yes. And I mean, we just. Sarah Jessica just looks at the camera in the last episode I watched, which is in the second season. I don't remember. And you know, she hated it.

John Benjamin Hickey (36:30)

Oh, yeah.

Kristin Davis (36:30)

Oh, yeah, she hated it so much. But she looks at the camera and then she makes a face, which I think was about having to talk to the camera.

John Benjamin Hickey (36:36)

Of course. Of course. Do you have you. I'm sure you've probably talked about it on the show. When was that decision made? Like, we don't need to do this anymore.

Kristin Davis (36:44)

I feel like it was an ongoing thing. Michael Patrick hated. Oh, he did the talking to the camera. Melfi hated the people on the street.

John Benjamin Hickey (36:52)

Sidebar. John Melfi, who went to Fordham with me and Camille. So I knew Melfi some 10, 12 years. Melfi and I have known each other 40 something years.

Kristin Davis (37:00)

I didn't even know this. Incredible. Mel is the unsung hero of our whole entire world. I told him in Paris that he's got to come on the podcast. He looked a little scared because I think he likes his secrets to remain off camera.

John Benjamin Hickey (37:11)

Nobody knows more stories and knows where more bodies are buried than John Melfi.

Kristin Davis (37:16)

I know. That's why I've got to get him in that chair.

John Benjamin Hickey (37:17)

You better believe it.

Kristin Davis (37:19)

Right? I know. I got to loosen him up and get him in the chair totally. But he would tell everything about everything, which would be great. But he. When he came, he said his secret mission was to get rid of the talking heads. And Sarah Jessica's very open mission was to get rid of talking to the camera. Cause I remember in the pilot her saying, you know, do I have to talk to the camera? It's so strange to break the fourth wall. I'm in this scene. And she's not wrong. I mean, it's a very weird thing as an actor to do. And then what she told me when she came on was that also she had been worried about Ferris Bueller, which I had never thought of.

John Benjamin Hickey (37:52)

Oh, wow. Yeah.

Kristin Davis (37:53)

So here, of course, is this, like, you know, her husband's, you know, iconic film that he'd done where he so brilliantly talks to the camera.

John Benjamin Hickey (38:02)

Nobody ever did it the whole time.

Kristin Davis (38:04)

Exactly. She felt like she was never going to live up to that, which is so adorable. Which I didn't know.

John Benjamin Hickey (38:08)

Interesting.

Kristin Davis (38:09)

Yeah. But she. When I was sitting there, what I remember is thinking that I had never seen an actress be able to speak so clearly about what they wanted to do and what they didn't want to do without being angry or histrionic or whatever. Just like, very clearly articulating why it was hard for her, why she felt like she wasn't doing it well, how she felt like it was better to stay with us in the scene. And I Was like, yes, yes, I agree with her. Not that anyone cares what I think over here, but I was like, yeah, yeah, that's well put. That's well put. But it took her. I mean, she's still doing it in season seven, second season, which I didn't even realize.

John Benjamin Hickey (38:44)

That's amazing. I did not know it went on that long. And frankly, I don't remember her. I remember more the side people doing it than the four people, which was.

Kristin Davis (38:53)

Kind of interesting and I think trying to be almost like an anthology or like, you know, relating to the fact that all kind of people are having all kinds of relationship things that you don't know about. Right. Like the people on the street. This one's gonna tell you something surprising. That one's gonna tell you something surprising. I get the idea. But it was taking story time away from the bigger stories.

John Benjamin Hickey (39:12)

Yeah. You have 20 to five minutes to pack four stories in, right? Yeah.

Kristin Davis (39:17)

Which is hard.

John Benjamin Hickey (39:18)

Yeah. Speaking of, my partner Jeff, he's a comedy writer, wrote Modern family for all 11 years. And he was like the hardest thing. There's 11 characters on that show and they have 22 minutes. And that makes me think about writers like Michael Patrick and all the great writers. Jenny Bix ran the big C. So many great writers who've come into your world and how difficult it is to pull that off for four. And now however many, you have extraordinary characters and everybody's got to have a story and everybody needs their time.

Kristin Davis (39:51)

It's true. And I mean, I don't want to spend much time on this, but sometimes when you see people's criticism, you're like, oh, do they know how hard it is?

John Benjamin Hickey (39:58)

Yeah. Yeah. No, they don't. No, they don't. And you know, I think back to that first season because I think we were recently overseas and sometimes, you know, a show will be on like an older versions of shows.

Kristin Davis (40:10)

Yeah.

John Benjamin Hickey (40:11)

And I watched a few episodes and this was long before you and I talked about doing this. But what I remember when I was watching is like, wow. Not only was it good, it got more sophisticated.

Kristin Davis (40:22)

Definitely.

John Benjamin Hickey (40:23)

It got more maybe clever. It was always super smart. But before it had flash. It had such warmth. It had such warmth. I mean, it's the reason why it goes on. It's because it's a love story. It's a love story and. And it had a confidence about that love from the very get go.

Kristin Davis (40:48)

You're so right.

John Benjamin Hickey (40:48)

Even though the show evolved, I mean, you know, in the same way any great writing would evolve, but it. Even though it Took a while to figure out. We don't need the talking heads. We don't. It knew you guys knew who you were.

Kristin Davis (41:04)

It's true. That's what I'm so surprised about. When I watched the first season, Were you.

John Benjamin Hickey (41:08)

Was it. Were some. Was it. Was it, Was it. Was the first season nerve wracking, or were you more nervous when it became so successful? Because sometimes, you know, it's scarier when there's a lot of, like, responsibility, like, oh, we're, we're. Let's not blow this.

Kristin Davis (41:27)

Right.

John Benjamin Hickey (41:28)

You know?

Kristin Davis (41:28)

Right. I think for me, because there's a whole long story I'm not going to bore you with because all of our listeners have heard it. In my first episode of the podcast, when I. So I signed, in my mind, Sarah Jessica did not sign. A big deal. A big pilot deal, which I didn't know about. And it's good that I didn't know about because I would have been super nervous that she wasn't sewed up for like seven years. Right. But I did sign one. But then during the pilot, which we were over budget, it was $2.5 million, which back then was a lot of money. Exactly. They were trying to cut costs, and they tried to get me to sign a new contract that would revoke my previous contract and make me a series recurring for $5,000 an episode.

John Benjamin Hickey (42:07)

Oh, my God.

Kristin Davis (42:08)

I know. Thank you, Hayden.

John Benjamin Hickey (42:09)

They tried to do this during. While you were shooting. Well, that. That's awful.

Kristin Davis (42:13)

I know. Thank you.

John Benjamin Hickey (42:14)

Yeah. What it suggests is that you don't have the con like that.

Kristin Davis (42:17)

I'm not.

John Benjamin Hickey (42:18)

You're not seeing them trying to cut corners. You're like, wait a minute.

Kristin Davis (42:21)

Yeah, I know. So I knew this, but I didn't tell anybody.

John Benjamin Hickey (42:24)

Damn executives.

Kristin Davis (42:26)

Yeah, I know. And no one will take responsibility.

John Benjamin Hickey (42:29)

Somebody knew.

Kristin Davis (42:30)

Somebody knew. I think those people aren't with us anymore.

John Benjamin Hickey (42:33)

Yeah, maybe not, but whatever.

Kristin Davis (42:35)

So I haven't got gotten to the absolute bottom of it, but I have. It's been very therapeutic for me to talk about it because I didn't ever realize that. I never told Sarah. I never told Cynthia. I never talked about it, except to my team. Because what I did was this line producer knocked on my door, just handed me this paper and said, you need to sign this. And I was like, oh, what's this? And I read it.

John Benjamin Hickey (42:53)

I was like, oh, my God.

Kristin Davis (42:54)

And I called my lawyer, who's still my lawyer all these many years later, and he said, don't sign the paper. Take it home and tell them that you forgot.

John Benjamin Hickey (43:03)

Brilliant. Love this lawyer.

Kristin Davis (43:05)

Every day I know. Jason Sloan. Incredible.

John Benjamin Hickey (43:06)

Give me his name and number at the end of the recipe.

Kristin Davis (43:08)

Charlotte. I love him as well for that, though. He says it's not cause of me, but whatever. Still love it. So every day they would knock, and every day I'd be like, I'm so sorry. I forgot. You know, I'm a good girl, Hickey. So, like, it took a lot for me. That's how badly I wanted to stay on that show as a series regular.

John Benjamin Hickey (43:28)

I have to say. It's not an Uncharlotte storyline.

Kristin Davis (43:32)

I know.

John Benjamin Hickey (43:33)

Yeah. That's the story Michael would write for her.

Kristin Davis (43:36)

Totally. It's so like her.

John Benjamin Hickey (43:38)

And she'd be crafty, but it would seem like it was under the guise of, like, oh, I'm just a. Yeah, right.

Kristin Davis (43:43)

I can do that. I can actually do that in life. It's kind of amazing.

John Benjamin Hickey (43:45)

That's amazing.

Kristin Davis (43:46)

But what happened to me and what I saw when I looked back at the first season was that inside, I had the anxiety of not being good enough.

John Benjamin Hickey (43:54)

Oh, of course.

Kristin Davis (43:55)

I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it did work with Charlotte in a lot of ways. And also, Michael told me when he came on, he thought, oh, I don't know. I don't know how to write for that character, because I was the one who wanted to get married. Right. So it took him a while to understand me enough and the character enough. And then Jenny came and she knew how to write me, which was great because she grew up on the upbriece side. It was perfect.

John Benjamin Hickey (44:13)

Right.

Kristin Davis (44:14)

So the pieces come, and you can see that in my performance. You can see it in the writing, for sure. But also, like, when I look at myself, there's some episodes where I'm like, I am really, literally just trying to walk properly with them, you know?

John Benjamin Hickey (44:27)

Wow. Yeah. The things you see that nobody else does.

Kristin Davis (44:31)

Like, I'm just trying to walk in those heels in those outfits.

John Benjamin Hickey (44:33)

That's my only objective, is not to fall down and look like I belong.

Kristin Davis (44:37)

Here back in la.

John Benjamin Hickey (44:38)

But, you know, I've talked to. And I'm sure Sarah Jessica has probably talked about this with you on this podcast, but, like, every season, you guys start every movie. I will talk to her in the first four days, and she'll be like, I don't know what I'm doing. I can't. I feel so. I don't know how to do this, and I'm not good at this. And like you, that never goes away.

Kristin Davis (45:02)

It's true.

John Benjamin Hickey (45:02)

No matter how iconic you Guys are.

Kristin Davis (45:05)

It's true.

John Benjamin Hickey (45:07)

You never lose. And we shouldn't.

Kristin Davis (45:10)

Of course.

John Benjamin Hickey (45:10)

That's the thing that keeps us alive.

Kristin Davis (45:12)

Wanting to act, too. Like, why else would you want to do such a crazy thing if it didn't bring all the feelings.

John Benjamin Hickey (45:16)

Absolutely. And challenge us and totally challenge us.

Kristin Davis (45:19)

And that's what we love.

John Benjamin Hickey (45:20)

Yeah. And there's real. No sense of security that's born out of this kind of success. In fact, sometimes the very opposite, as we talked about, can happen. It can make you a little more.

Kristin Davis (45:31)

That's true for me because I started out at the crazy place of like, are they gonna keep me or not? It did just get better.

John Benjamin Hickey (45:38)

And you did that first season and then were you sort of like you?

Kristin Davis (45:42)

Well, then I had to wait and see if they were gonna fire me or.

John Benjamin Hickey (45:44)

So you. I'm sorry, I lost that. I probably interrupted you. You really. Even when that first season was over. How many episodes?

Kristin Davis (45:51)

Thirteen.

John Benjamin Hickey (45:52)

Yeah. You were like, didn't know. Maybe I'll come back. Maybe I won't.

Kristin Davis (45:54)

Exactly.

John Benjamin Hickey (45:55)

Holy crap.

Kristin Davis (45:56)

I know. And I didn't tell any of them, which is crazy to me that I didn't tell them. Do you know what I mean? But I think that if I. I thought that if they knew, they'd be like, oh, yeah, maybe you're not gonna have. Which of course they wouldn't have. But, like, I just didn't have the security in it all yet, you know?

John Benjamin Hickey (46:10)

Yeah, totally.

Kristin Davis (46:10)

So I was just on this. Like, you didn't know if it was.

John Benjamin Hickey (46:14)

Coming back, much less, you know.

Kristin Davis (46:16)

Right.

John Benjamin Hickey (46:16)

It wasn't.

Kristin Davis (46:16)

Right. Yeah, no, we didn't know anything. We didn't know anything. Right. So it was all good. And then they were. Then they were like, yes, yes, we do need it.

John Benjamin Hickey (46:21)

Of course.

Kristin Davis (46:22)

Thank you, guys.

John Benjamin Hickey (46:23)

Thank you, God.

Kristin Davis (46:30)

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John Benjamin Hickey (50:58)

Was it a rating success, its first season?

Kristin Davis (51:00)

You know what? No one ever spoke about the ratings.

John Benjamin Hickey (51:03)

Yeah. Those metrics are still, to this day. Netflix, they won't tell you what the numbers are.

Kristin Davis (51:07)

Right. But I mean, for me, I'd come from network where like Monday morning you went in and everyone was like, oh, 5.8, 10 point, whatever. No one cared. I'd be like, does anyone know if anyone's watching it? They didn't care. You know what they cared about? They cared about press. Yeah, they wanted press hits. Like, we worked hard in the beginning. We talked to anyone and everyone who would talk to us because it was the traditional press back then. Right. We didn't have all the things we have now. And they cared about awards, which took us a while to get there, but we did. But that was what made people want to pay. Because you had to pay so much for hbo. Right. It wasn't just how many eyeballs. It was more about the kind of like, cache.

John Benjamin Hickey (51:45)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kristin Davis (51:47)

So lucky for us because it did take a while to pay and you don't.

John Benjamin Hickey (51:50)

I mean, that's never gone away because it's a show about, you know, about the people in New York City and the way they dress, all of you. And so that's a big part of the show. The press is a very big part of the show.

Kristin Davis (52:05)

It is. Yeah, it is. And thank God they still write about us.

John Benjamin Hickey (52:08)

Yeah. Oh, God, yeah. Well, as well they should. You mentioned those big hats in that first season. I wonder if they were as big as that hat that Sarah has on.

Kristin Davis (52:15)

Nothing. Nothing is as big as that hat.

John Benjamin Hickey (52:17)

That thing is. Gad. I'm sure people are probably talking about that thing.

Kristin Davis (52:21)

Oh, everywhere. Do you not see it? It is an actual.

John Benjamin Hickey (52:23)

Or was it just a blanket?

Kristin Davis (52:25)

No, it's designed by a designer.

John Benjamin Hickey (52:27)

It's a great hat. It was a great hat.

Kristin Davis (52:29)

It's beyond. She has the most incredible knack for dressing of any individual I've ever seen. And obviously she does not dress like Carrie, which I think is a big, big misconception. But her sense of how and what and when and like, it's like magic watching it. It's incredible.

John Benjamin Hickey (52:49)

It's really. It's really amazing. I directed Sarah Jessica and Matthew in this Broadway revival of Plaza Suite. Oh, my God. Yes, of course. Yeah. And I'm just bringing up all of my.

Kristin Davis (53:00)

I love it. Do it.

John Benjamin Hickey (53:01)

But it was just amazing watching them work together. Yeah. How extraordinarily different they are as performers and people and what kind of chemistry that produces. But I just wanted to bring it up because the legendary costume designer Jane Greenwood did the clothes, and she had done Sylvia with Sarah. Many things with her and Matthew and the way I went to her costume fittings, and they're so great because she's got such an unbelievable, uncanny sense of lines and the cut of things. And Jane, who knows so much more than Sarah, like, it was a real collaboration, and I'm sure in the way it was with Pat and this brilliant new person. Yeah.

Kristin Davis (53:46)

Molly's not actually new. She's been here since Molly was with Pat.

John Benjamin Hickey (53:49)

And it's one of the reasons why she's doing such a great, great job is because she has a history with.

Kristin Davis (53:55)

Definitely. And we trust her so much. But she's so. Molly's also really into the details. Like, the two of them can just go down the rabbit hole of, like, how something was woven or whatever. It's very.

John Benjamin Hickey (54:05)

Do you spend a lot of time in wardrobe fittings before each season?

Kristin Davis (54:08)

Oh, yeah, we all do. I mean, there's a lead up. Yeah, there's a lead up, like, prep. But then also during the. You know, it doesn't.

John Benjamin Hickey (54:15)

It's never ends.

Kristin Davis (54:16)

Very big part of it. And I used to kind of kick and scream, and now I'm like, yeah, I love it.

John Benjamin Hickey (54:20)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Kristin Davis (54:22)

I surrender. I love it. You know, we're so spoiled.

John Benjamin Hickey (54:25)

It's such a. It's. As you said earlier, like, you know, I would have. I might have thought it could or could not be a hit, but never in a million years would I have imagined what did happen. Because it's unprecedented.

Kristin Davis (54:37)

Exactly.

John Benjamin Hickey (54:38)

Because it's never happened.

Kristin Davis (54:39)

There's no model for us. And that's partly what I love as well. And people can feel all different ways about the first movie, the second movie, the new show, whatever. I don't care. Because to me, we are just creating and creating and creating. And I know that we're creating from such a sense of love and respect for each other and the fact that we love to be together and to make a show that people can relate to. And, you know, our eye has never Been on, like, the. The big success models or whatever. It's been on just making a story that we love.

John Benjamin Hickey (55:10)

Absolutely. And. And. And that. And that you did it on this little wild, wild west, furthest place in the frontier. HBO that then became HBO that we know today. And then whoever the smart people were who said, yeah, let's sell this into syndication. Because one of the things, being my age and being youngish when it all started, Sarah's age, that it would be generational, that incredible. Like Wicked is doing that now. Wicked is a show that young women went to see when they were 12 years old, 20 years ago, and now they're taking their daughters to see it.

Kristin Davis (55:48)

It's incredible.

John Benjamin Hickey (55:48)

And this show, which was so blue as where we'll end, where we started, which, you know, was so R rated, has become this thing that people have passed down to their children and said, watch this. This is New York City. This is friendship.

Kristin Davis (56:03)

Right?

John Benjamin Hickey (56:04)

This is. Yeah, yeah, right.

Kristin Davis (56:05)

I know. It's. It's incredible.

John Benjamin Hickey (56:07)

It's really sweet.

Kristin Davis (56:08)

Well, I just want to say I'm so happy that you're a small but brilliant part of it.

John Benjamin Hickey (56:11)

Well, wait a minute. I was naked in the show, so let's not use the word small.

Kristin Davis (56:15)

Let's say you are a very mighty fine. You. Look, he's all from behind. Mighty fine. But also, wouldn't it be incredible if we could bring Catholic Guy back?

John Benjamin Hickey (56:24)

Oh, my God.

Kristin Davis (56:25)

Like, where's Catholic Guy?

John Benjamin Hickey (56:26)

I really do. Every now and then I've said to Michael Patrick, like, not even about me. Like, it would be nice to see a couple more of the old timers.

Kristin Davis (56:33)

Back and, like, what happened to them? Cause they're such vivid, vivid characters.

John Benjamin Hickey (56:37)

Who's the brilliant. I'm sorry. I wish I knew his name because I'm such a big fan of his. The guy who played Scooter in the first season.

Kristin Davis (56:44)

Skipper.

John Benjamin Hickey (56:44)

Skipper.

Kristin Davis (56:45)

I used to see.

Dietz and Watson Ad (56:45)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (56:45)

What is that guy's name? We never. I don't know where he is. He's very good.

John Benjamin Hickey (56:50)

He was. He was so. So unique and odd.

Kristin Davis (56:54)

He's like a puppy. He's like a little puppy. And the man is just mean to him.

John Benjamin Hickey (56:58)

Genius casting all through it.

Kristin Davis (57:01)

Ben Webber.

John Benjamin Hickey (57:02)

Ben Webber. Ben Webber. But, you know, when you mentioned Kyle. Brilliant Kyle, because you and Evan are so brilliant together. I almost feel like you've been together forever. But no.

Kristin Davis (57:11)

Well, look, we've been together a long time.

John Benjamin Hickey (57:13)

A long time. Yeah. A long time.

Kristin Davis (57:15)

But there was Kyle before him.

John Benjamin Hickey (57:17)

Yeah. Absolutely.

Kristin Davis (57:18)

Incredibly vivid and wonderful as well. Just very, very different.

John Benjamin Hickey (57:20)

Incredible.

Kristin Davis (57:21)

Yeah. I've been so incredibly lucky. But before that there was so many guys. Charlotte had so many guys. Crazy things.

John Benjamin Hickey (57:27)

Yeah. And you're not going to. We're not going to see Kyle show up at the end of the season. You'll never tell.

Kristin Davis (57:33)

I don't know. I don't know. But we've discussed some things. But we. You know, this is the thing. Harry and Charlotte are the last couple standing.

John Benjamin Hickey (57:42)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (57:42)

So good. So I don't know that we want him mess with that. You know what I mean?

John Benjamin Hickey (57:46)

They so know each other. That's what I love about watching them. They people who've been together at the. You know, you may hate each other at times, you may bore the out of each other, but you know the other person for all, warts and all. And that's what's great about the writing for those two characters. They really look at each other and they see each other.

Kristin Davis (58:05)

I agree. I agree. Hickey. I knew it would be incredible.

John Benjamin Hickey (58:08)

Was it okay? I knew it would be incredible.

Kristin Davis (58:11)

This is the catching up with friends. You delivered and then some.

John Benjamin Hickey (58:15)

A real thrill and an honor to be here to have known you and admired you you for so many years now. And that it's still going on isn't.

Kristin Davis (58:22)

I know. It's incredible. I'm so happy that you're with us.

John Benjamin Hickey (58:25)

Thank you so much.

Kristin Davis (58:26)

Love to see you always. Let's get catholic guy back. But just hang out with us. Hickey, that's.

John Benjamin Hickey (58:31)

I've been doing my squats. I was at the gym doing my squats today. So the butt is still kind of.

Kristin Davis (58:35)

I'm for the butt. It's perfection. Okay.

John Benjamin Hickey (58:39)

Nobody's seeing that.

Kristin Davis (58:40)

All right.

John Benjamin Hickey (58:40)

Thank you so much. Thank you babe.

Kristin Davis (58:48)

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Kristin Davis (61:31)

This is Danielle Fishel, Will Friedle and.

John Benjamin Hickey (61:33)

Ryder Strong from Pod Meats World.

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Kristin Davis (61:41)

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Kristin Davis (62:10)

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