Charlotte’s Wylie Coyote with Brian Van Holt... (S2 E10 "The Caste System")

Summary

Are You A Charlotte? | S2 E10 – “Charlotte’s Wylie Coyote” with Brian Van Holt

Episode Theme:
Kristin Davis and guest Brian Van Holt revisit Sex and the City S2E10, “The Caste System,” exploring themes of class, dating, gender dynamics, and memorable behind-the-scenes moments—particularly Charlotte’s ill-fated romance with Van Holt’s Wiley Ford.

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1. Setting the Scene: Revisiting “The Caste System”

• Opening reflections on what made Brian Van Holt’s Wiley Ford such a memorable foil for Charlotte York.
• Praise for director Alison Anders and writer Darren Starr—both celebrated for the authenticity and energy they brought to the episode.
• The central episode theme: relationships across class divides, and the social pressures that surface around money, status, and love in New York City.

“What worked so incredibly well with a part of Wiley is that you knew the character you were playing, but you weren’t that. So there’s a sweetness underneath where you totally understand why Charlotte is so excited and so into you. … But you, to me, that's a great combination of when you know, the milieu, but you're not actually that.”
— Kristin Davis (03:15)

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2. Key Episode & Character Moments

A. Carrie & Big: The Complexity of Saying ‘I Love You’

• Carrie’s internal debate about telling Big “I love you,” and the vulnerability and withholding that characterizes Big.
  • Kristin admits that, looking back, Big’s behavior reads more toxic than she realized at the time.
  • Social media has reassessed his actions with a more critical eye.

“Sometimes I just hate him passionately. … It was such a thing we all went through — that withholding guy. … But at least there’s conversation around it and deeper understanding.”
— Kristin Davis (07:03)

• Memorable ‘Judith Leiber purse’ subplot: Gift as a symbol; the running joke of the odd-looking designer purse and its recurring appearances in the series and movies.

  • [08:22] – “This is when Big gets Carrie the supposedly semi-ugly Judith Leiber. … Judith Leiber was such a part of our whole lives that at one point HBO gave us Judith Leibers as a wrap gift … it ends up being a huge plot point in the movie…” (Kristin)

• Carrie’s night out:

  • Carrie meets a charming waiter/performance artist (with a mysterious ‘flower magician’ act), leading to a standout moment of drunken, joyful vulnerability from Sarah Jessica Parker’s character, including the impromptu singing of “Jeremiah Was a Bullfrog.”
  • [10:08] “Out of order here: it is one of my all-time favorite Sarah Jessica moments…” (Kristin)

B. Miranda & Steve: Money, Class, and Gender Dynamics

• The couple’s central tension: the awkwardness and pain of dating across a financial divide.
  • Steve balks at Miranda’s attempt to buy him an expensive suit for her law firm’s party.
  • The heartbreak of Miranda being “punished” for her success.

“Because it’s true … her line was, ‘I’m being punished for being successful.’ For a woman, that’s pretty profound. And there’s a lot of truth to that.”
— Brian Van Holt (16:55)

• Both hosts empathize from personal experience with the embarrassment and obstacles caused by status or income differences.
• Discussion broadens to social class in America and how Sex and the City was prescient in addressing these themes.

“You all are pretending that we live in a classless society … you can’t think about being with a guy whose income is based on tips, which is, like, so practical and weird. Like, I would never say that in life … but it is true, still today, that the class situation in America is complex and not worked out.”
— Kristin Davis (18:28)

C. Samantha: Class and Control

• Samantha becomes involved with a wealthy man whose servant mistreats her, highlighting dynamics of power and class even among the ultra-rich.
  • The servant’s cruel double standards become a surprising and memorable plot device.

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3. Behind the Scenes: Chemistry, Awkwardness & Iconic Lines

A. Charlotte & Wiley Ford: From Cute to Unsettling

• Art gallery date & Limousine makeout:

  • Both actors recall feeling a real (but professional!) crush—an undercurrent fueling the on-screen energy.
  • [28:17] “There was, to be honest, a crush. … I’m a Charlotte, for sure.” (Brian)

• That jaw-dropping bar scene:

  • Wiley’s crude proposition to Charlotte is called “the hall of fame line and moment of my entire career. I still get recognized for it.”
  • [41:40] “Charlene, I want you to go to the bathroom, stick your finger in your hoo-ha, come back, and let me smell it.”
  • Both laugh about Brian’s nerves performing the shocking line, and how audiences (including construction workers shouting at Brian in public) have kept the memory alive for decades.

“That was the hall of fame line and moment of my entire career. And I still hear from it. I still get recognized from it — no way — to this day.”
— Brian Van Holt (41:02)

• Kristin describes precisely how Charlotte navigates the moment: “There is a moment there where I’m like, please, God, and I didn’t remember … I think I’m contemplating how to politely get out; Charlotte always wants to be polite. But also, you have pushed me too far …” (44:52)

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4. Reflections on the Show’s Social Impact

• Ongoing cultural conversation about SATC’s effect on gender politics, women’s voices, and relationship expectations.
  • Brian notes that some men criticized the show for “ruining” dating; Kristin pushes back on the double standard.
  • [13:19] “Some dudes would say, ‘You ruined my dating life, man.’ I was like, ‘No, you ruined your dating life, dude!’” (Brian)
• Appreciation for the bold, boundary-pushing writing, and how themes around class, gender, and power remain deeply relevant.

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5. Standout Quotes and Moments by Timestamp

• [03:15] Kristin on Brian’s character: “...there’s a sweetness underneath… great combination…”
• [07:03] Kristin on Big: “Sometimes I just hate him passionately.”
• [08:33] Judith Leiber purse discussion.
• [10:08] Kristin’s favorite SJP moment: “Out of order here: it is one of my all-time favorite Sarah Jessica moments…”
• [14:25] Miranda’s heartbreak: “Her line was, ‘I’m being punished for being successful.’”
• [16:55] Social class relevance: “It is still, it’s interesting that it’s a real thing … almost 30 years [later].” (Brian)
• [28:17] Brian admits being a “Charlotte.”
• [41:02] Hall of fame cringe line revelation.
• [49:17] “Did you smell it?” — The line’s lasting legacy.
• [46:11] On Big finally saying ‘I love you.’
• [47:02] Carrie’s therapy arc and Bon Jovi cameo (upcoming).

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6. Closing Thoughts: Why “The Caste System” Still Resonates

• Both hosts reflect on how much ground the episode covers in just 22 minutes.
• Pride in being part of a show unafraid to mix “heart, humor, and some optimism” with social critique.
• Brian and Kristin’s mutual admiration: for the writing, each other’s performances, and the way SATC continues to spur conversations.

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Summary Table of Main Segments

| Timestamp | Section/Highlight | |---------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:15–05:34 | Working with Alison Anders & Show’s Emotional Tone | | 07:01–09:13 | Carrie & Big dynamic; Judith Leiber purse subplot | | 10:08–12:03 | Carrie’s performance artist date; SJP singing scene | | 13:09–17:11 | Miranda/Steve storyline; money, class, and “punishment” for success| | 18:28–19:52 | Charlotte’s comments on class; intersection with money and love | | 26:04–28:17 | Charlotte & Wiley: Art gallery, limo make-out, romance dynamic | | 40:01–41:55 | Wiley’s crass line; its ongoing impact; behind-the-scenes | | 46:06–47:11 | Carrie & Big’s ‘I love you’ resolution | | 49:14–49:54 | Brian on being recognized for the notorious line |

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Final Word

This episode is a rich, funny, and bittersweet deep dive into the legacy of Sex and the City’s social commentary, highlighting why the show endures as both a pop cultural touchstone and a protest against the boundaries of its time. The chemistry between Kristin Davis and Brian Van Holt is palpable, refreshing, and filled with delightful honesty—making for a must-listen for fans and first-timers alike.

Transcript

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Brian Van Holt]

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[Kristen Davis]

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[Brian Van Holt]

There are many versions of what happened in 1969, when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.

[Kristen Davis]

Left a woman behind to drown.

[Brian Van Holt]

Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

[Kristen Davis]

Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? So you guys, everybody, welcome back to are you a Charlotte? We still have the amazing Brian Van Holtz. What worked so incredibly well with a part of Wiley is that you knew the character that you were playing, but you weren't that. So there's a sweetness underneath where you totally understand why Charlotte is so excited and so into you. Right? And then it kind of goes in a horrible direction. And thank God she got up. Cause I was like, I don't remember what happens now because I blocked this whole part out. Right. And thank God I get up and very politely leave. Thank God. Right? But you, to me, that's a great combination of when you know, the Milu that you're playing, like, the life, the people, what they're like. But you're not actually that.

[Brian Van Holt]

Of course. Well, thank you. I certainly hope not. And yeah, yeah, yeah, it was good.

[Kristen Davis]

All right, let's recap a little. So let. Let's say again, Alison Anders directed. Such a joy to work with her.

[Brian Van Holt]

Absolutely. I was. That was. What a gift. What a phenomenal director. And it was such a privilege to.

[Kristen Davis]

Find her and have her on the side.

[Brian Van Holt]

She was so nice and so kind and so such a great director in allowing me to just, do you know, what I do? And also made me feel comfortable. Cause again, I was pretty, you know.

[Kristen Davis]

Well, I couldn't tell.

[Brian Van Holt]

I was really nervous and I was really excited.

[Kristen Davis]

Sweet.

[Brian Van Holt]

So sweet.

[Kristen Davis]

Like, so positive. I never had a director just be like, good, baby, good.

[Brian Van Holt]

Right?

[Kristen Davis]

Do you remember how she did? She'd be like that.

[Brian Van Holt]

Very nurturing. Yeah, I felt great. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly.

[Kristen Davis]

I was like, okay, right. Let's just do it again, like, so easy.

[Brian Van Holt]

I love her.

[Kristen Davis]

Love it so much. Me too. And then Darren Starr wrote this, which I didn't realize at this point that he's still actively writing. I thought he was kind of A little bit. Moving on to his next show. But no, he's still around. He's writing, which is cool, because I love this episode.

[Brian Van Holt]

He wrote that line. I bet.

[Kristen Davis]

I bet he did. Let's not even think about that anymore.

[Brian Van Holt]

Are we gonna avoid that? So keep going. What else do you have on your list?

[Kristen Davis]

Can I say when we. I have the whole show on my list. It's a lot, but I know we're gonna talk about the important parts, so. One of the things that I love when I'm re. Watching. You have so many feelings, watching. I mean, I do as an actor, but also just as a viewer. Like, it lets me be objective as a viewer. So when this episode starts and it has those beautiful shots of New York in the spring, how great was that?

[Brian Van Holt]

The whole opening of it? I did that. Felt the same way when I saw that when I rewatched it. The whole opening of the episode. It's a thing. Springtime in New York is so special. And they're so beautiful for some of the shots that she was using. But it's. It's that vibe. It's that feeling. And I know you know what I'm talking about.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Brian Van Holt]

The town just goes from such a positive energy.

[Kristen Davis]

Magical.

[Brian Van Holt]

The vibe. It's magical.

[Kristen Davis]

So magical. And they pictured it.

[Brian Van Holt]

They did.

[Kristen Davis]

So right at the top of the show, you're just flooded with feelings. I love that. So impressed by us. You know, in retrospect, it's amazing. So we hear Carrie. She's giving us a voiceover, and she's talking about how she wants to tell Big that she loves him. This is what her theme of the episode. Each of us. We're now getting to where the kind of themes are playing into each character really, really well. Weaving them together, which I thought was great. And she wants to tell him. And this is one of those times where I really have been having this love hate thing with Big. When I'm looking back on it. Right. Which I never had at the time. I never thought twice about how I felt about the Big character while we were in it. Of course I love the Big character.

[Brian Van Holt]

You personally?

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, me personally. I never thought about it.

[Brian Van Holt]

Got it.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. I didn't know it because you're playing your charact. You're not really thinking about it objectively. At least I'm not. I'm not that kind of actor. But when I look back on it. And also, everyone has so much to say in social media about that, which I get. I totally get. And sometimes I just hate him passionately. Hate him. Like that withholding guy. It was such a thing we all went through and we just thought it was normal and whatever. It's still happening, obviously. But at least there's conversation around it and deeper understanding, I think of that. You need to ask for more and. Or walk away. You know what I'm saying? Like simply.

[Brian Van Holt]

I know from. I'm not that guy. I'm.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly. I don't think you're that guy. Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian Van Holt]

Probably to a fault, but. Yeah, I hear you.

[Kristen Davis]

No fault. No fault. No fault. But this is one of the times when Big is actually adorable. Thank God.

[Brian Van Holt]

I thought the same thing. I saw that. Chris. Nothing I actually was for. I hung out with him a bunch of times back in the day.

[Kristen Davis]

I'm sure you did.

[Brian Van Holt]

And. But there's a moment where I hadn't seen him be vulnerable.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Brian Van Holt]

Ever.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Brian Van Holt]

And then that episode.

[Kristen Davis]

He really is.

[Brian Van Holt]

You know what I mean? Moments.

[Kristen Davis]

Moments. Not the whole time.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah. He had a moment. You know, even when his look on his face when she tosses his hair.

[Kristen Davis]

Definitely.

[Brian Van Holt]

You know what I mean?

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. Because you know, he hates that. He hates it.

[Brian Van Holt]

But he went from him. He went to like back to being a 10 year old kid.

[Kristen Davis]

Definitely. It was adorable.

[Brian Van Holt]

It was adorable.

[Kristen Davis]

Adorable, adorable. And this really funny, just for the girlies listening. This is when Big gets Carrie, the supposedly semi ugly Judith Lieber. Which. This was so funny.

[Brian Van Holt]

The purse or whatever.

[Kristen Davis]

The thing that's funny about it is that to me now, obviously there's the animal Judith Leiber. Then there's like the classic Judith Leiber. Like Judith Lieber was such a part of our whole lives that at one point HBO gave us Judith Lieber's as a rap gift. But they weren't.

[Brian Van Holt]

I'm acting like I know what Judy Leiber is.

[Kristen Davis]

You don't care.

[Brian Van Holt]

I'm just.

[Kristen Davis]

It's adorable. It's adorable. But it's funny because. And also in the movie, it ends up being a huge point because my little fake child puts Carrie's phone in her cupcake Judith Lieber. That I have bought her like a $4,000 purse to go to the wedding. Which is insane, but very Charlotte. And that's why Carrie doesn't get Big's calls when he's not going to come to the wedding.

[Brian Van Holt]

God.

[Kristen Davis]

And the Judith Leiber. So Judith Leiber is a huge through line for a show. But it's funny because Carrie's so upset about not liking. It's a swan, right? Is it a swan? Is that what it says? You can't really even tell what the heck it is. It's an animal.

[Brian Van Holt]

I thought it was a duck.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, it looks like a duck.

[Brian Van Holt]

It looked like a duck when I watched it. I'm like, what is that?

[Kristen Davis]

And then they go to this party where all the women have different animal and it's on Park Avenue. And Carrie hates Park Avenue, which is interesting, right? Because Charlotte ends up living on Park Avenue. I was like, oh, my gosh. But obviously this was kind of like a different group. It was like Big's friends and not her friends. And then she gets together with or doesn't get together with, whatever, something. Does something with this young waiter guy who's a performance artist but also produces a flower out of his hand, which would imply that he's a magician.

[Brian Van Holt]

Right?

[Kristen Davis]

So I was a little confused.

[Brian Van Holt]

Me too. I'm a performance artist. And like, is that. Is he a clown? With that form? The fake rose comes out. He's like a mime.

[Kristen Davis]

I know, but he's adorable, so who cares, right? Jeremiah. And I have to say, out of order here. It is one of my all time favorite Sarah Jessica moments when she is walking down the street with that guy singing Jeremiah was a boy. She is so great. And she's drunk, but she's not stereotypical drunk.

[Brian Van Holt]

No.

[Kristen Davis]

She's singing and then she goes up the wrong stairs.

[Brian Van Holt]

She goes up the wrong stairs.

[Kristen Davis]

I don't hear. It's so good.

[Brian Van Holt]

I believed it. I got. I thought the same thing when I saw that scene.

[Kristen Davis]

She and that guy, whoever his name.

[Brian Van Holt]

Is, I An incredible ball.

[Kristen Davis]

Great.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah, he's great.

[Kristen Davis]

I didn't even get to meet him or work with him at all. I don't think.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah, I saw him for a few times. He was. Yeah, he was. Sweet guy, too.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, he seems like a sweetheart. And she had great chemistry with him.

[Brian Van Holt]

100%. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

And that's one of those.

[Brian Van Holt]

Very handsome dude, too. He's like a movie star.

[Kristen Davis]

And it's interesting because at that point, so Big has started out being adorable. And then we go to this party and he's super not adorable because he's like with these uptight people, Right? And that lady who's having the party is like, bitchy to carry. And he seems to not care, which is not cool, Right?

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

And I'm like, yes, leave with the cute guy, waiter. Leave with the cute guy, waiter. Carrie. I support that. And it's interesting because I also think when we're looking back, because there's been this whole thing where people talk about Carrie being narcissistic. Which I think is very misplaced criticism. I think she was a very complex character that we've had for 30 years. And you're hearing her internal voiceover, so of course, she seems narcissistic in a lot of ways.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

You know what I mean?

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Brian Van Holt]

I do.

[Kristen Davis]

And also, like, why can't a woman be complicated and complex and never do the. Not. Not never do the right thing? Sometimes not do the right thing. Turn to me.

[Brian Van Holt]

Of course. I mean.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah. I mean, we. We are all complicated. Women are complicated.

[Kristen Davis]

Absolutely.

[Brian Van Holt]

Men are complicated.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. Like, men can be serial killers and still be the lead of a show and much beloved. Right. You know what I mean? You've played one.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yes, exactly. Exactly.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. It's a very common thing. And everybody's like, that's the hot actor, the one who plays the serial killers. You know, it's weird, right?

[Brian Van Holt]

If you think about it, it is. You know, we all have our quirks and wrinkles, of course.

[Kristen Davis]

And what kind of interesting character wouldn't.

[Brian Van Holt]

Exactly.

[Kristen Davis]

Right? So then. Okay, let's keep going.

[Brian Van Holt]

So I agree with you. That's.

[Kristen Davis]

Thank you so much, Brian. Right. I mean, it's unfair. I think it was unfair at the time that there was kind of a general. Kind of a sexist conversation about these four women talking about their sex lives. I mean, obviously we still succeeded, but to us, we just heard the criticism.

[Brian Van Holt]

Of, like, is that fascinating, though? It was interesting to see what, you know, it did. And I'll say, mostly men obviously would get intimidated or upset about the show. And I was like, I have four sisters, so I know what it's like, awesome. And I go. And I'm like, what are you talking. Yeah, just quit being so weak inside. I was really surprised by a lot of the. The opposite sex reaction to your show.

[Kristen Davis]

I'm glad you remember it, because some people don't even remember it. And look at me funny when I talk about it, like, no big deal. I'm like, no, they were upset. It was a change. It was a.

[Brian Van Holt]

Some. Some dudes would say they, you know, ruined my dating life, man. I was like, no, you ruined your dating life, dude.

[Kristen Davis]

Good call, bro.

[Brian Van Holt]

Don't project your issues onto. Good for you beautiful women.

[Kristen Davis]

Thank you. Excellent job. Okay, then we have a really adorable storyline with Miranda and Steve. I had not remembered this either. It's so incredibly good.

[Brian Van Holt]

Good is that moment.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God. Eichenberg is just so great. She's so good.

[Brian Van Holt]

So good. In the door scene, he breaks up. I wanted to cry right There. She's so good. She's just so good overall. Obviously, so incredible. That moment.

[Kristen Davis]

And he's so good, so.

[Brian Van Holt]

He's so good, too. Sorry, I don't mean to take away from his.

[Kristen Davis]

Together, Right. I mean, they're both incredible. So basically, Miranda, who's trying to climb the ladder at her law firm, she wants to be made partner. This has been true since the show started. Right. It's a whole through line for her. And she's dating this bartender. We have a very funny and interesting conversation about money and dating. That's in this episode, right?

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

No.

[Brian Van Holt]

You had the most memorable scene of the show. You guys are getting pedicure. Sorry.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Brian Van Holt]

Am I blowing it for you?

[Kristen Davis]

No.

[Brian Van Holt]

Okay. You're good. The pedicure scene. Go ahead.

[Kristen Davis]

It's a good scene, right?

[Brian Van Holt]

It's amazing.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes. And like, all trailing by scene, too.

[Brian Van Holt]

By the way you delivered the hammer and it was so good.

[Kristen Davis]

I love there. Like, with the truths, you know? So basically, we're talking about dating and money, which I think is still such a big, big topic, right?

[Brian Van Holt]

It is, yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

Like, did you watch White Lotus?

[Brian Van Holt]

Of course. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

And you know that beautiful girl who's dating the guy who we think killed Jennifer Coolidge, but he didn't. Or what he says he didn't. Whatever. I don't know.

[Brian Van Holt]

Jonathan. Grease.

[Kristen Davis]

Thank you so much. He's so good.

[Brian Van Holt]

He's amazing.

[Kristen Davis]

And, you know, he's got the boat and the money and everything that he inherited.

[Brian Van Holt]

Also up for that role.

[Kristen Davis]

No. Oh, my God.

[Brian Van Holt]

Mike White goes. You're just not right for it.

[Kristen Davis]

You are not right for that part. I agree with Mike.

[Brian Van Holt]

Jonathan. Yeah, but I just. Just throwing you, like, wow. I really wanted it to.

[Kristen Davis]

You're connected to everything, right?

[Brian Van Holt]

Well, if I'm old.

[Kristen Davis]

No, you're not. I'm old too, babe.

[Brian Van Holt]

No.

[Kristen Davis]

Connect. Being connected is great. I love Mike.

[Brian Van Holt]

What a great.

[Kristen Davis]

Mike White's amazing.

[Brian Van Holt]

He's such a sweet. I love him, too.

[Kristen Davis]

And do you remember when. So they. So there are all those beautiful girls on the boat. And is it Parker's like, why are all these beautiful women with these ugly men? The man with the money, you know, it's so interesting, right? Like, because it's still. It's still an important conversation to have.

[Brian Van Holt]

100%.

[Kristen Davis]

Right? But yet somehow it's expected that the rich men who are older are gonna have the beautiful young girlfriend slash wannabe wife. And that. That's cool. But it's not okay to have a rich woman who is dating a bartender because that's somehow not okay. And so the end of the storyline in this particular episode, as we know, it's not the end of Miranda and Steve, but the end is that, you know, basically Steve says, I feel uncomfortable. She tries to buy him an $1800 suit to go to this very, you know, shi. Shi. Law firm party. He won't let her buy it. He's uncomfortable. I totally get that. I feel that it's an uncomfortable thing in a relationship, you know, that someone is.

[Brian Van Holt]

I've been there.

[Kristen Davis]

Me too.

[Brian Van Holt]

I get it.

[Kristen Davis]

In different.

[Brian Van Holt]

I get it. But I've been exactly in that sort of similar position. So I totally understand.

[Kristen Davis]

Me too.

[Brian Van Holt]

That dynamic. And. And. But go ahead, because there's a brilliant.

[Kristen Davis]

Because when he comes and says to her, he comes on the evening that they're supposed to go to the party, and she's ready and waiting, and he comes and he's wearing jeans and a T shirt. And she says, why are you dressed like that? And he says, I can't go. I took the suit back. I couldn't afford it. And she's like, oh, but. And then he goes, you're an amazing lady. I believe, he says. And she goes, are you breaking up with me because I'm successful, basically? And he says, no, I don't mean it like that. And she's so emotionally present and moved and upset and, like, devastated, really.

[Brian Van Holt]

Because it's true. It's like her line was, I'm being punished for being successful.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Brian Van Holt]

For a woman. And that's. That's pretty profound. And there's a lot of truth to that, obviously.

[Kristen Davis]

So relate to.

[Brian Van Holt]

And it's still. To this day.

[Kristen Davis]

I know.

[Brian Van Holt]

Still exists to this day.

[Kristen Davis]

Why can't we fix that?

[Brian Van Holt]

We're going backwards in a lot of certain areas, too, I think, in our culture. But it's. It is. It is still. It's interesting that it's a real thing. Even this. We know this. We. This. This time around was like 25, almost 30 years.

[Kristen Davis]

Yep. And it's still completely true.

[Brian Van Holt]

Exactly. We have.

[Kristen Davis]

Unbelievable.

[Brian Van Holt]

It is unbelievable.

[Kristen Davis]

Right? But I love the writing and I obviously love the acting, and they're so good together, and you so want them to work. But you can also understand. You can totally understand her viewpoint.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

Of like, why can't you just be okay with this?

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

Just let me buy you a suit. Who cares, right? But as a guy, I think the way men are conditioned, it's not okay.

[Brian Van Holt]

Well, he has a line, too. It was. It's. I get it. It's A. But it's also came off. It's like, also pathetic and weak. But he's like, you know, I don't feel good about myself when I'm around you.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. That's so sad.

[Brian Van Holt]

I'm like, oof. Well, that's not. That's your issue.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Brian Van Holt]

It's not hers. I.

[Kristen Davis]

True.

[Brian Van Holt]

You know, true.

[Kristen Davis]

And obviously he. I can't remember the details of how they come back together. I can't wait to see.

[Brian Van Holt]

But he's also valid to have those feelings. It's a very complicated, you know.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Brian Van Holt]

Dynamic. And humans are complicated.

[Kristen Davis]

For sure. For sure.

[Brian Van Holt]

I totally understand what both those.

[Kristen Davis]

Me too. And I think society, you know, does a number on people, you know, and like this whole. The idea when Charlotte says to the girls, you know, you all are pretending that we live in a classless society because they're just talking about money and they're not talking about class. And I say, you know, you can't think about being with a guy whose income is based on tips, which is, like, so practical and weird. Like, I would never say that in life. Do you know what I mean? It would never occur to me in life. You know what I'm saying? But Charlotte's gonna be practical, and she's obviously got her end game in mind, and she thinks other people, too, are. Should have the same end game, whatever. But it is true, I think still today that the class situation in America is complex and not worked out.

[Brian Van Holt]

You know, it's hard. You said you did. Yeah. What is it? It's hard to date outside your class or something, right?

[Kristen Davis]

And also I say, yeah, you're ignoring. Because they're just talking about the money. And Mirant. Samantha's like, it's totally. That's not true. You know, women should be able to be successful and date whoever they want, whether they have the money or not. And of course, I agree with her. But then Charlotte says, but you all are forgetting class. You're pretending that class doesn't exist. And that's a really true point, I think. And I think part of what's happening in America currently, culturally, is based in the fact that we have a society that's based on, like, achievement and class based on achievement, which is not great. You know, I agree. It's not a great way to be.

[Brian Van Holt]

No. You know, I know.

[Kristen Davis]

Famous footwear has the latest styles and all the iconic brands your kids love for back to school from Nike, Adidas, Jordan brand Crocs, Converse, New Balance, Birkenstock and more, all at a great value. There's something for everyone in the family and I know for myself I cannot even keep up with the shoes that my kids want. So the fact that there are so many choices at Flims footwear and that I can get them the next size up as soon as they outgrow the ones they have and not have to break the bank to get them the shoes that they want is incredible. Plus they make it so incredibly easy because you can just order online because I know I don't have time to go to the shoe store. These kids grow so fast. You have to just buy shoes all the time. I feel so. I love famous footwear because they make it so easy. It saves me so much time. They have over 830 stores. They're just around the corner from wherever you are. Plus buy online, pick up in store and same day delivery options powered by doordash make shopping at famous so easy and convenient. Kids feet grow fast. Famous Footwear has fit experts in store to make sure you get the right size every time. I like that you don't have to overspend to make it famous right now. Buy one pair of shoes. Get one half off at your local famous footwear store or famous.com see store associate for details.

[Brian Van Holt]

What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York state number and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short term, highly regimented correctional program that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was overwhelming and you don't know who's next to you and we didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything. Listen to Shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kristen Davis]

Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult, but it happens all the time to people just like you and people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the hosts of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out. Trust Me. New episodes every Wednesday on exactly right Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going.

[Brian Van Holt]

Through something like that is a traumatic experience. But it's also not the end of your life.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. And I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Lea Trittate. On my new podcast, the Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week, I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of black girls mothering as resistance and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kristen Davis]

The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season.

[Brian Van Holt]

Four is here and we're locked in. That means more juicy cheesement, terrible love.

[Kristen Davis]

Advice, evil spells to cast on your ex.

[Brian Van Holt]

No, no, we're not doing that this season.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Oh, well, this season we're leveling up.

[Brian Van Holt]

Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not gonna wanna miss it. Get in here. Today we have a very special guest with us. Our new super secret bestie is the diva of the people.

[Kristen Davis]

The diva of the people.

[Brian Van Holt]

I'm just like texturex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay, that's us.

[Kristen Davis]

What the heck?

[Brian Van Holt]

That's us. My name is Curly and I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heartbreaks, men, and of course, our favorite secrets.

[Kristen Davis]

Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the Microtura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. That's the other thing you gotta really respect when I look back at these episodes, like, we go to some places, like, bam. You know what I'm saying? Like, all of a sudden we're in deep, like, we're getting a pedicure. And I'm like, well, you're all thinking that you don't live in a classless society. And Charlotte's supposed to be like the, you know, Kind of naive one or whatever. But here she is with the truth.

[Brian Van Holt]

No, no, that's a through line throughout your. The whole show and every. You know, every season and all the episodes. It's very smart in the writing and obviously the acting, but very. What's the word I'm trying to look for, you know, socially relevant with. With, you know, our current culture.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Brian Van Holt]

At that time.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes. And like, kudos to our writers.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah. And you were. You were. You were definitely, like, going there.

[Kristen Davis]

I know.

[Brian Van Holt]

Going there wasn't a lot of boundaries too. Which. Which was great.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true. So wait, this is when you come in. I just want to mention how cute that art. Art scene is when you want to buy the fire extinguished.

[Brian Van Holt]

It's hysterical.

[Kristen Davis]

It's so good.

[Brian Van Holt]

The writing moment is. And it's. I collect art too.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Brian Van Holt]

One of my best friends is a big art consultant. I'll say.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Brian Van Holt]

My. I have a lot of experience in that world and. But I do some of the ridiculousness of.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. Like, isn't there a banana peel on a wall? Isn't that. Is that in those commercials with the Chris's.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah, that was a thing.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. It's real. Right.

[Brian Van Holt]

So. But yeah, I mean, some of the. Some of the art that it's. It's.

[Kristen Davis]

It's funny. So you're not wrong to think that fire extinguisher in the wall might be the art. That's the one you're going to buy.

[Brian Van Holt]

Charlotte wasn't wrong either. By Take it. Someone's going to think it's.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly. You should take it. They'll think it's Jeff Goose.

[Brian Van Holt]

You could have taken it out and sit in the middle of the table and that's. That's, you know.

[Kristen Davis]

Totally. Totally. Or just put a frame around it.

[Brian Van Holt]

Put a frame around it. You know what? It becomes art if you just put a frame around it.

[Kristen Davis]

Totally.

[Brian Van Holt]

That's amazing.

[Kristen Davis]

Totally. And. But you're so funny and you keep your cool, which I think is so amazing. Like, you're so naturally just cool and calm and collected and I'm so like goofball. You know, Goofball Charlotte. Which I really enjoyed watching. You know what I mean? Like, it really. It took me back to the 90s so much.

[Brian Van Holt]

Right. You know, Me too.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, me too. I love it. I love it. And you're so good. Then all of a sudden we're in the car making out. I mean, man, it was like smash cut.

[Brian Van Holt]

I mean, wow. I know. We. Yeah. I forgot about it too, until I watched the episode again. And smash cut to the limousine. And it was. You know.

[Kristen Davis]

That'S what you did back then, right? I was like, whoa, yeah, just jump on in there. No intimacy coordinator. No discussion.

[Brian Van Holt]

An intimacy coordinator. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

No, we just go.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah. We didn't have that back in the day.

[Kristen Davis]

And we didn't. But it was fun. It was good.

[Brian Van Holt]

You made me feel very. Because it's awkward. This is.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. I mean, strange.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah. And it is. It is a weird thing, but you're so cool.

[Kristen Davis]

Thank you.

[Brian Van Holt]

Made it very, you know. You know, very comfortable and, you know, and enjoyable. And.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes. Yes, I enjoyed it.

[Brian Van Holt]

There was. To be honest, there was a crush, for sure. I was. I was the. I was definitely a fan. And I am a. I'm a. I'm a Charlotte, for sure.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Brian Van Holt]

I have a time. If you see my. You know my history a little bit. I'm a. I have a type. Pretty much.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Brian Van Holt]

You see my wife. My wife.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait. I'm so excited. I'm so happy for you. But I definitely had a crush back. And thank God, if you hadn't been dating Manipede, I don't know what I would have done. I would have lost my cool in every which way. Do you know what I mean? Right. But I had to keep a veneer of professionalism on top of it.

[Brian Van Holt]

Well, we.

[Kristen Davis]

I tried.

[Brian Van Holt]

Me too. Me too. But it was funny. Made it very comfortable and awkward, which mostly, most of the times those scenes can be incredibly awkward and weird. And it was. There was a chemistry that. It was great.

[Kristen Davis]

It was great. It was great. It was great. Which is why I think that's really the only part of the episode I remembered.

[Brian Van Holt]

Some more? No.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. No, there's that crazy bar scene. So this is also when we get to Samantha's kind of bonkers storyline, which I also didn't remember, where she's dating this very wealthy man who has a servant.

[Brian Van Holt]

Oh, my God. The servant's so funny, too.

[Kristen Davis]

What was her.

[Brian Van Holt]

Was her character's name?

[Kristen Davis]

It's some.

[Brian Van Holt]

Some. Was hysterical.

[Kristen Davis]

Funny.

[Brian Van Holt]

Funny.

[Kristen Davis]

But it's scary. Okay. It's scary. So basically, the gist of that storyline is that this man is like, oh, someone's gonna take such good care of you. And the second he's gone, she's like, get out of the bed. Like, at one point, he's like, you slut. You whore. He was like, oh, my God. And I. I. It was so real. See me?

[Brian Van Holt]

So real. The actress was so good. I don't Know her name. But anyway, she was Gina. Gina. Oh, what a Gina.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, you did a great job. And it's very terrifying. And Samantha, of course, is very scared. But there's also this whole facade where she's acting one way to her boss and the other way to the woman with her boss, of course. And in the very end, when I think he tried. Oh, he's in the shower. And I guess the lady who works at the house, I hate to say the word servant, comes in and she's just like, get off the sheets. I have to wash them.

[Brian Van Holt]

She finds a condom wrapper.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, is that what it was? A condom wrapper? Yes.

[Brian Van Holt]

Is that the time?

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, it must be. I think there's a couple scenes with her where she's mean to Samantha and then the guy comes out and then the. The lady pretends that Samantha hit him. Devastating. I mean, awkward and awful. But I mean, you know, these kind of things happen, and it's kind of scary. You know what I mean?

[Brian Van Holt]

I can imagine. You know, haven't had too much experience with the servant life.

[Kristen Davis]

I haven't either. Not the servant life, but, like, I'm complications with people. Like, I had this guy who was doing, like. What do you call it? Like, putting in my video. Audio. Video. What do you call it? Yeah, it's like a word.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Brian Van Holt]

Audio. Visual. Tech guy. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

And because I'm. I'm a. I'm a woman, single woman, who owns my house and pays for everything. Right. And I also have. I think at the time I had an assistant that I had him. So he'd been dealing with the assistant. But one day I came in, he was still there, and he had his people were there installing wiring or something, and he didn't know who I was, and I was wearing my regular very unimpressive clothes. And he just turned to me and started talking to me in such a mean way. And I was like, what's going on? You know what I mean? And I could see the guy behind him who worked for him knew who I was. Right. But he did not know who I was. And he thought that I might have been the assistant or a different assistant maybe. And he was like, as mean as anything. And I was like, oh, my God, what do I do? What do I do? So I was like, should I go and come back? And then he was like, well, I don't know the billing. No, no. And I was like, well, I'm the billing. I'm the billing. And then you could just see his face just like, oh, no. I thought this was a different person. And then he changed back to the person that I'd previously seen, which was super polite. But that's awful.

[Brian Van Holt]

I don't understand that.

[Kristen Davis]

I know it's awful. And you could see the guy behind him who worked for him was dying a million deaths. Do you know what I mean? But couldn't save it. Like, couldn't get in front of him and be like, don't do it. Do you know what I mean? Right. I just hate that. I don't want that to be true. But in reality. There's things in reality that we don't want that are true.

[Brian Van Holt]

You know, it's like somebody. I agree with you. It is horrible. And it makes me so uncomfortable when in those moments. Like, for example, you probably had this experience too when you're out to dinner with a friend or whoever, and it is. Some people treat waiters with little or no respect.

[Kristen Davis]

It's upsetting. Especially if you've been a waiter.

[Brian Van Holt]

Oh, exactly. I mean, I was the worst waiter.

[Kristen Davis]

Me too.

[Brian Van Holt]

It was briefly. Yeah. I got fired.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, no.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah. I brought out the. The. This is when I went to ucla. I graduated. Right around the corner, by the way. We're my old stomping grounds. I didn't. This. I didn't. The fajitas weren't sizzling enough.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Brian Van Holt]

Any guy goes, take them back. And I'm like, they're hot enough. You eat them anyway. I was terrible. But anyway, it's a hard job.

[Kristen Davis]

And it's a very hard job.

[Brian Van Holt]

And it's like they work their asses off. And it just really troubles me when. When.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, it's rough, man. It's night or day. Like if someone's. No, I don't accept that. No, me neither. If you're not nice to the waiter, it's a very, very bad look.

[Brian Van Holt]

Really uncomfortable.

[Kristen Davis]

I agree. Really bad look. And I don't think the same about you as I did previously to that. Basically, just for anyone who's curious. Okay. Then we're back at this Park Avenue party with Carrie. And then she runs into Jeremiah, who's so adorable with the flower, which is mysterious, as we said. And then we go to. Oh, the poor Samantha Miranda. I mean, there's really a lot of sadness when you look at this episode. Which is interesting because it starts with just that love of the spring.

[Brian Van Holt]

That's right. I didn't even think about that.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. But now that I'm looking at. That's the other thing. When you reflect back, like, how much we could pack into 22 minutes.

[Brian Van Holt]

A lot.

[Kristen Davis]

So much.

[Brian Van Holt]

A lot.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Brian Van Holt]

I didn't realize how much you guys did until I watched it again.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Brian Van Holt]

And just talking to you right now, really realizing, oh, you know, you're going over the episode. That's a lot of information to cover within.

[Kristen Davis]

It is a lot. And it's highs and lows.

[Brian Van Holt]

Like, it goes and it works. So it somehow it connects and it's smooth and it's for the most part seamless.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. With the editing and everything. It's amazing. We have the same editor on and just like that. And he's an amazing guy. Michael Barenbaum, thank you very much. Famous Footwear has the latest styles and all the iconic brands your kids love for back to school. From Nike, Adidas, Jordan brand Crocs, Converse, New Balance, Birkenstock and more, all at a great value. There's something for everyone in the family and I know for myself, I cannot even keep up with the shoes that my kids want. So the fact that there are so many choices at Flames Footwear and that I can get them the next size up as soon as they outgrow the ones they have and not have to break the bank to get them the shoes that they want is incredible. Plus, they make it so incredibly easy because you can just order online because I know I don't have time to go to the shoe store. These kids grow so fast. You have to just buy shoes all the time. I feel so. I love famous footwear because they make it so easy. It saves me so much time. They have over 830 stores. They're just around the corner from wherever you are. Plus, buy online, pick up in store and same day delivery options powered by doordash make shopping at Famous so easy and convenient. Kids feet grow fast. Famous Footwear has fit experts in store to make sure you get the right size every time. I like that. You don't have to overspend to make it famous right now. Buy one pair of shoes. Get one half off at your local famous footwear store or famous.com see store associate for details. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult, but it happens all the time to people just like you and people just like us. I'm Lilla Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the hosts of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out. Trust Me. New episodes every Wednesday on exactly Right. Listen, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going.

[Brian Van Holt]

Through something like that is a traumatic experience, but it's also not the end of your life.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Leah Tritate. On my new podcast, the Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of black girls mothering as resistance and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brian Van Holt]

American history is full of wise people. What woman said something like, no. 99.99 of war is diarrhea and 1% is glory.

[Kristen Davis]

Those Founding Fathers were gossipy AF and they love to cut each other down.

[Brian Van Holt]

I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, the show where you send us your questions about American history and I find the answers, including the nuggets of wisdom our history has to offer. Hamilton pauses and then he says, the greatest man that ever lived was Julius Caesar. And Jefferson writes in his diary, this proves that Hamilton is for a dictator based on corruption.

[Kristen Davis]

My favorite line was what Neil Armstrong said.

[Brian Van Holt]

It would have been harder to fake it than to do it. Listen to American History Hotline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kristen Davis]

A foot washed up, a shoe with.

[Brian Van Holt]

Some bones in it. They had no idea who it was.

[Kristen Davis]

Most everything was burned up pretty good.

[Brian Van Holt]

From the fire, that not a whole lot was salvageable.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

These are the coldest of cold cases. But everything is about to change.

[Kristen Davis]

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA using new scientific tools. They're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it.

[Brian Van Holt]

He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors, and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at othram, the Houston lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kristen Davis]

So then here I. Here I am. You at the. I get up to be a waitress at this dinner that we're at, which is also. I'm just like, oh, my God, Charlotte, sit down. But it is very Charlotte to be like, I'll get everyone's Roman curse.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah, I know.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God. And then I'm not going to repeat your line. They wrote it down here like I would. You funny people. I'm not going to repeat this line, but thank God you pushed me too far. Your wily character pushes me too far.

[Brian Van Holt]

You're not going to repeat the line.

[Kristen Davis]

I am not. Are you? You can.

[Brian Van Holt]

You want this?

[Kristen Davis]

Tell me, when you said that this would come back to you, how did.

[Brian Van Holt]

It happen for your audience? I won't say that.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, yeah, you're right. The audience needs to know.

[Brian Van Holt]

No, no, I would. Well, I would. You know, my character got to, you know, again, one of the. I've been so blessed in my career to have delivered something insane one liners, you know. You know, I told Kyle Secor, I asked him if he likes. He likes my nice hard ass. And over again.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Brian Van Holt]

I won't go over all the. There's some. There's monumental moments, but this was the hall of fame line and moment of my entire career. And I still hear from it. I still get recognized from it. No way to this day. And not really recognized because now I'm, you know, 100 years old.

[Kristen Davis]

You're not 100 years old.

[Brian Van Holt]

And I just look like a baby in that thing.

[Kristen Davis]

You do look like a baby in the.

[Brian Van Holt]

My voice is. I made. I don't think my balls dropped yet because my voice is so. I don't know what the sound like.

[Kristen Davis]

I didn't notice that.

[Brian Van Holt]

I was probably nervous.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, that is cute.

[Brian Van Holt]

But. And then. But I'm like, oh, my God, how am I gonna do this? But I just channeled my, you know, my inner douchebag and I got to deliver the line of like, you know, Charlene. First of all, I would just some. That guy who wouldn't even, you know, have enough respect to call you by your right. And Charlene's not a bad name either.

[Kristen Davis]

No, of course not. So it's just not my name.

[Brian Van Holt]

It's like, charlene, I want you to go to the bathroom, stick your finger in your hoo. Ha.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh my God.

[Brian Van Holt]

Come back and let me smell it. I'm like, oh my God. And the fact that we were able to do that, I'm like, there's no way they're gonna let me do this. I'm so sorry.

[Kristen Davis]

It's okay. It's so funny. It makes me stressed. Like I'm sure I did at the time.

[Brian Van Holt]

Oh my God.

[Kristen Davis]

Do you know what I mean? It's so interesting. Go ahead.

[Brian Van Holt]

But I was just saying, first of all, I'm like, there's no way after reading this they're gonna let me do this on tv.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, you didn't realize.

[Brian Van Holt]

I didn't look at. I read it. You know how many times I've read a script that was. And then it's changed because of the, you know, standards and practices. Thank you. I forgot about that.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes. But we didn't have that in hbo.

[Brian Van Holt]

Didn't have that. We reveled, you know, especially John from Cincinnati. We definitely didn't have that. That's another. But we. I couldn't believe I was going to be able to say this and get away with it. And I did.

[Kristen Davis]

You did. And you know what I like about it? You deliver it. First of all, you start out like the way you start out, you know, Charlotte, is because I have just brought the drinks for the table, right? And you. And you could see your little mind turning, like, what could I do to her now? You know, you're just like, what could I come up with now? And you're like, this is what I want you to do. And I'm like, huh? You know, like, that's so funny.

[Brian Van Holt]

You said it. I think I created as an actor, like, how am I gonna get to this place, right?

[Kristen Davis]

But you did a great job.

[Brian Van Holt]

I made some story. Like it was like I just dared. Or I. When someone dared me or I just. Whatever. Of course.

[Kristen Davis]

Because you do talk to that guy right next to catch you. Yeah, yeah, you do talk to that guy. The way that you deliver it to me at the time, you do not see what's coming at all. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's what I love the most about it, right? And you're very charming, right? You're like, this is what I want you to do. And I'm as Charlotte, I'm like, yes, uh huh, yes. And then you're like, I want you to get up, I want you to go to the bathroom. I'm like, huh? And I'm still halfway. I'm still like, well, this is interesting. You know what I mean? And then you just deliver it super, super basic. You know what I mean? And I think that was the joy of your choice there, because you don't deliver it like. It is, like, a crazy, crazy thing to say.

[Brian Van Holt]

That's fun. Well, thank you.

[Kristen Davis]

You know what I mean?

[Brian Van Holt]

It was funny being on the other side of that look. I was looking at you, Your response when I was in real time, I remember saying. And going, oh, my God. That she. I don't think you were acting. You're like this scumbag. Did you just say it? And you could see. I could tell. I was so. You could tell when you look at it again. I was. I was. It was awkward for me to even, like, say those lines for sure.

[Kristen Davis]

But you.

[Brian Van Holt]

I was able to pull it off, actually say that. And you could see, like, there's like, these little weird quirks that you notice.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true. That's true.

[Brian Van Holt]

But, oh, my God.

[Kristen Davis]

But I think it's so great because of the way that it was already set up, right? That, like, you know, I'm the only one not smoking pot, where I'm like, no, no, I don't smoke pot. You know? And you blow it in my mouth, right? And then I get up and get everyone. Like, it's already so created that I'm the oddball out. Right? But Charlotte's still doing her best to hang in there because that's who she is, right?

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

She's like, I'm gonna be okay with this. I'm gonna just sit here and be okay with it. Do you know what I mean?

[Brian Van Holt]

Right.

[Kristen Davis]

And then all of a sudden, it just. One step too far. And thank God, because there is a moment of pause there where I'm like, please, God. And I didn't remember. I didn't remember.

[Brian Van Holt]

Was there a moment where you were contemplating maybe doing it or.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. Or just. I'm contemplating. Like, I think I'm contemplating how to politely get out. Because Charlotte always wants to be polite. Right. But also, you have pushed me too far, and I'm definitely not going to do that. And I think at that point, I might be remembering that Carrie said, leave right now when I first call her from the car. Which was the good advice.

[Brian Van Holt]

That's right. You should have left.

[Kristen Davis]

She knew better than Miss Charlotte.

[Brian Van Holt]

She kind of knew exactly where this was going.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true. And then let's get to the end. So Carrie tells Big she loves him. At the beginning. And then she feels really uncomfortable because he doesn't say it back. Of course. Of course he doesn't. Like, you know, he's not easy like that. Right. And then she's all stressed about the handbag, and she thinks it's ugly. And then he has these friends who are mean to her. And she goes home with a, you know, whatever he is. Waiter, slash performance artist. And then he calls her the next day, the guy's in her bed. They're fully clothed, which I think is great. And she doesn't remember because she was drunk. And he calls her and he says, I just have to tell you that I have to do something in my. I have to do things in my own time. In my own time.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

And she's like, okay. And she's hungover and feeling guilty. He doesn't realize this. And then he goes. Doesn't he say, I do love you?

[Brian Van Holt]

Yes. It's like, okay, all right. Yeah, exactly.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. It's so him. But it is satisfying for her because he does do it in his own way.

[Brian Van Holt]

Right.

[Kristen Davis]

You know, and he sticks to who he is, really.

[Brian Van Holt]

That's a good point.

[Kristen Davis]

Right?

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

I mean, he came around in his own way.

[Brian Van Holt]

In his own way.

[Kristen Davis]

It's never going to be easy.

[Brian Van Holt]

No. And there is some validity to doing things in your own way, whether, you know, you might ruffle some feathers or. Or, you know, swim upstream or go against the current, but.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. Well, you don't want to get pushed into a corner or whatever.

[Brian Van Holt]

You gotta be your authentic self. And I think, you know, how often are we pretending to be. Or participating in behavior or something that's not necessarily our authentic self, but we're trying to make somebody else happy or feel good.

[Kristen Davis]

Absolutely. You know, but that's what Carrie does a lot of. And that's what I see when I look back on it. Not this narcissist, narcissistic Carrie, but a Carrie who's, like, pushing down her own wants and desires to try to be with him.

[Brian Van Holt]

Right.

[Kristen Davis]

Which is. I think other people also see that, obviously. And when she had gone to therapy. But if she'd gone to therapy, we might not have gotten to continue.

[Brian Van Holt]

There would have only been. You know.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. No, she. I forgot. She did go to therapy where she met Jon Bon Jovi's character, and then she had to quit therapy so she didn't run into him anymore. That was just. Is it coming? It's coming, isn't it? It's coming.

[Brian Van Holt]

You getting Jon Bon Jovi.

[Kristen Davis]

Jon Bon Jovi was. Oh, no, he doesn't want to do my podcast. I know. I don't know why.

[Brian Van Holt]

Well, maybe we could try them. We're going to circle back with Jon Bon Jovi.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay, great. Let's circle back with John Bon Jovi.

[Brian Van Holt]

You're going to do it.

[Kristen Davis]

Let's do it.

[Brian Van Holt]

That. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

You're a joy, Brian.

[Brian Van Holt]

You're. That was so good to see you.

[Kristen Davis]

Let's discuss more in depth. Are you a Charlotte?

[Brian Van Holt]

I am definitely a Charlie. That was Wiley Ford, by the way. Just for the audience.

[Kristen Davis]

You're your own version of Charlotte.

[Brian Van Holt]

I was Wiley Ford. I am definitely a Charlotte.

[Kristen Davis]

That's a great thing.

[Brian Van Holt]

Oh, my God. Big time.

[Kristen Davis]

I don't meet many men who are like, yes, I am a Charlotte. I love that so much.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Good for you.

[Brian Van Holt]

I do you trust. I mean, yeah, I have a. I have a. You know, I have a type, and it's. Charlotte fits that type.

[Kristen Davis]

Love it. Love it so much.

[Brian Van Holt]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

We need nice men to be Charlotte's.

[Brian Van Holt]

Oh, really Makes the world better. It does make the world better. I didn't know we had a shortage of Charlottes, but I think I'm going to now. I have. I'm on a mission now. I'm gonna. I'm gonna correct that.

[Kristen Davis]

Do it.

[Brian Van Holt]

Charlotte. Charlotte Nation. Here we go.

[Kristen Davis]

Charlotte Nation.

[Brian Van Holt]

Charlotte Nation. That's the next podcast. Yes, I do. Wanted to. Before we go, real quick story. Just so you said, that damn line, man. Comes back and everybody knows. It's probably. I get recognized or people want to talk about the most.

[Kristen Davis]

No way.

[Brian Van Holt]

Especially with the female audience that first. But after it aired, in New York City, walking down the street, construction dudes, which. The construction guys. And either they're working for the city or they're part of the building. If I don't know where, they were building something. But it was men like that weren't known to watch the show.

[Kristen Davis]

Of course. Yeah.

[Brian Van Holt]

Anyway, these dudes and I felt it. You can only feel the dudes look at you and recognize you for a second then. And they waited till I got far enough away. Hey, hey, dude, did you smell it? I heard that more than one time. I've heard it multiple times in the street. Yeah. Once I get Costco.

[Kristen Davis]

That's so embarrassing.

[Brian Van Holt]

Oh, my God. I'm like, how do you respond to that? I'm like, no.

[Kristen Davis]

I'm like, did you say no?

[Brian Van Holt]

I know. Well, I know. Yeah, I did. Phenomenal. I mean, what do you do? What do you say? You just gotta look at. Come on, man.

[Kristen Davis]

That's really a good comeback.

[Brian Van Holt]

I like that those moments just have people just remember those moments.

[Kristen Davis]

It's so true. But you know what I mean. On the one hand, sometimes I feel like apologizing to the guys who are on the show because of those things, following them through life. Right. Because obviously you're not that character at all. But on the other hand, it's kind of amazing to be a part of something that people remember.

[Brian Van Holt]

It is. You're exactly right. Yeah, it is. Sometimes it's cringy, but in the same time, it feels good.

[Kristen Davis]

I'm glad. I'm glad. And you did it so well.

[Brian Van Holt]

Oh, and thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for, for everything. For the, for, for being my, my, my, you know, my rock on the set.

[Kristen Davis]

And that was so glad.

[Brian Van Holt]

And, and also for inviting me to come back here.

[Kristen Davis]

It's my pleasure. I'm so happy you did. It's the best part of doing the podcast to get to have the actors on. I mean, I love the writers, too. I love everybody. But like it to reconnect and hear memories because you have your own right and they're different from mine. And then also what it was like for you after and where you were at the time. I love it so much.

[Brian Van Holt]

Well, I can't wait to see and hear more about what the. When other actors and more stories because it's. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

It's fun. Right?

[Brian Van Holt]

Such a good. Yeah. And it's bringing me back and it's such a good, good podcast. And you talk about so many interesting things and. And I love hearing the stories.

[Kristen Davis]

Me too.

[Brian Van Holt]

It. You know, it's.

[Kristen Davis]

Me too. Me too. Thanks for contributing, too.

[Brian Van Holt]

Oh, my pleasure. Anytime.

[Kristen Davis]

Yay.

[Brian Van Holt]

It's Black Business Month and Money and wealth podcast with John Hope Bryant is tapping in. I'm breaking down how to build wealth, create opportunities, and move from surviving to thriving. It's time to talk about ownership, equity and everything in between. Black and brown communities have historically been last in line. Let me just say this AI is moving faster than civil rights legislation ever did. Listen to Money and Wealth from the Black Effect podcast network on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Kristen Davis]

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Backlog will be identified in our lifetime on the new podcast, America's Crime Lab. Every case has a story to tell and the DNA holds the truth.

[Brian Van Holt]

He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[Kristen Davis]

This technology's already solving so many cases.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brian Van Holt]

What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on Earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York state number, and we own you. Listen to Shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kristen Davis]

So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.

[Brian Van Holt]

There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.

[Kristen Davis]

Left a woman behind to drown.

[Brian Van Holt]

Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.

[Kristen Davis]

Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult, but it happens all the time to people just like you and people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the hosts of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out. Trust Me. New episodes every Wednesday on Exactly right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

This is an I Heart podcast.