Her Return is Worth the Waithe with Lena Waithe... (S3 E5 "No Ifs, Ands or Butts)

Summary

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Are You A Charlotte? | "Her Return is Worth the Waithe" with Lena Waithe

Episode: S3 E5 ("No Ifs, Ands or Butts")
Date: November 17, 2025
Host: Kristin Davis
Guest: Lena Waithe
Podcast by: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode reunites Kristin Davis (Charlotte from Sex and the City) with acclaimed writer, producer, and actress Lena Waithe—her first-ever returning guest. Together, they revisit Season 3, Episode 5 of Sex and the City ("No Ifs, Ands or Butts," aired July 5th, 2000), a key episode where the show attempts to address its lack of diversity through a storyline involving Samantha dating a Black man.

In a candid, thoughtful discussion, Kristin and Lena reflect on the complexities of representation, storytelling, and friendship on Sex and the City. They also discuss the legacy of the show, its movies, and social changes regarding women’s autonomy, friendship, and sexuality.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Season 3: The Sweet Spot of "Sex and the City"

• Both Kristin and Lena agree that Season 3 is when the show "gelled" and hit its stride.
• Lena: “Everything gels. That’s usually how it goes with the season three of shows. But I think for this particular series, something happens...” (04:00).
• Lena reminisces about watching the show in real-time and being inspired to take television writing seriously, highlighting its cinematic and novel-like qualities.

2. Addressing Race and Representation (Core Theme)

• The main focus is on the episode’s attempt to tackle diversity, as Samantha dates a Black man for the first time.
• Kristin recalls how the lack of people of color on the show was repeatedly brought up by the public and press:
  “We decided to try to tackle the fact that there were no people of color in the show, which is not how New York City is, obviously..." (07:07).
• Discussions on casting choices, lack of diversity in writers’ room (“all white women at this point, except for Michael” - 11:02), and the tension between representation and tokenism:
  • Lena: “I don’t want a Black or brown character put into the frame for a quota sake. ... Do it because it feels organic and honest.” (10:27–11:25)
• They explore the challenges and limits of the show’s approach in this episode, including the “angry Black woman” trope and a key line (“it’s a Black thing”) which Lena unpacks as a shorthand for “you can never make you understand.” (24:08–24:37)

3. Interracial Dating: Storyline Reflections and Missed Opportunities

• Lena appreciates the attempt, while wishing the show had allowed for more depth:
  “What breaks my heart the most about the episode is that we don’t get to explore Samantha dating this Black guy...” (25:41)
• She suggests it would have been more powerful for the relationship to unfold over multiple episodes and end for reasons unrelated to race.

4. Friendship, Female Autonomy, and the Show’s Legacy

• Lena describes Sex and the City as “my generation’s Mary Tyler Moore show,” (05:57–06:15) a cultural touchstone for women’s stories.
• Both reflect on the importance of friendship as the show’s foundation:
  • Lena: “Your friendships are what will determine what your relationships ultimately look like.” (29:48)
  • Kristin: “It’s intimacy. It’s chosen family.” (31:02)
• Kristin discusses audience reactions to the characters’ choices—particularly Carrie’s solo ending in And Just Like That: “When we ended Sex and the City and she was not single, people were outraged...”

5. Show Structure and Behind-the-Scenes Anecdotes

• Kristin details the balancing act of four storylines, citing the “bad kisser” subplot as an example where on-set interpretation diverged from script (17:07–17:12).
• Insights into production decisions—like the absence of characters’ parents—add to the show’s “fantasy New York” quality (09:56–10:06).

6. Broader Societal Reflection

• The pair analyze how media reflects and perpetuates a "white-leaning society," with Lena using the Oscars and network television as examples (28:25–28:43).
• Comparison with other “female quads” in media, such as Waiting to Exhale and Girlfriends, highlighting the rarity and significance of these ensembles, especially for Black women (51:42–53:14).
• Lena: “Our entertainment, our media is a reflection of our society. … We live in what I like to call a white-leaning society.” (28:25)

7. The Magic of the Movies & Fandom

• Lena recounts the communal experience of attending the midnight premiere of the first Sex and the City movie, calling it a "Star Wars convention for fans" (41:48–42:54).
• Discussion of the transition from show to movies, including contract negotiations and the influence of The Devil Wears Prada on getting the movie made (46:12–48:06).
• On sequels:
  • Lena: “I love that there was never a sequel to Bridesmaids.” (49:50)
  • On Sex and the City: “That first [movie] can stand on its own.” (50:26–50:40)

8. Evolving Narratives for Women

• Exploration of women’s changing relationships to marriage, partnership, and independence—“the future of like, resorts, apparently: single women wellness” (32:36).
• Lena references Tracee Ellis Ross as an example of autonomous womanhood in media.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lena Waithe on Diversity:
  “I don’t want a Black or brown character put into the frame for a quota sake.… Do it because it feels organic and honest.” (10:27–11:25)

• Kristin Davis on Reflecting NYC:
  “We decided to try to tackle the fact that there were no people of color in the show, which is not how New York City is, obviously…” (07:07)

• On Friendship as the Heart of the Show:
  Lena: “Your friendships are what will determine what your relationships ultimately look like.” (29:48)
  Kristin: “It’s intimacy. It’s chosen family.” (31:02)

• Lena on Missed Storytelling:
  “What breaks my heart the most about the episode is that we don’t get to explore Samantha dating this Black guy...” (25:41)

• Media as a Time Capsule:
  Lena: “All entertainment is a time capsule. I don’t want to go back and say, well, let’s fix this for our comfort.” (26:09–27:02)

• Lena on Sequels:
  “I love that there was never a sequel to Bridesmaids.… It did what it needed to do.” (49:50–50:26)

• Lena on Women’s Stories in Media:
  “The quads continue. ... Ladies talking is always a vibe. … And talking freely about their emotions, about who they’re dating, all that.” (53:38–54:13)

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Key Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamps | |---------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Season 3 as pivotal season | 03:55–06:15 | | Tackling race, representation | 06:47–14:36 | | Samantha/Samantha’s storyline critique | 12:52–17:58 | | Quota vs. organic representation | 10:27–11:25 | | “It’s a black thing” explanation | 24:08–24:47 | | Steve and Miranda’s relationship | 38:22–41:12 | | The communal movie experience | 41:24–42:54 | | TV-to-movie transition and licensing hurdles | 45:34–48:06 | | Discussion on movie sequels, Bridesmaids | 49:50–50:40 | | On quads of women in media (Girlfriends, Exhale) | 51:42–53:33 |

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Tone & Language

The conversation is heartfelt, witty, and reflective, featuring camaraderie, honesty about the struggles of representation, and deep appreciation for Sex and the City’s legacy. Lena brings both critique and praise, while Kristin is candid about the show’s limitations and the journey of its fan and creative community.

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Closing Note

Kristin and Lena close by acknowledging that the work—and the conversations—are ongoing. Lena will return for a second part, promising further insight into the past, present, and future of women’s storytelling both on and off the screen.

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Listen to the next episode for Part 2 with Lena Waithe!

Transcript

[Announcer]

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[Kristen Davis]

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[Commercial Voice]

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[Kristen Davis]

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[Kristen Davis]

Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? You guys, this is very, very, very exciting. We are having the very first return guest. I am so thankful to Ms. Lena Waits.

[Lena Waithe]

Thank you for having me back.

[Kristen Davis]

It's brilliant, brilliant to have you back.

[Lena Waithe]

I'm so honored and grateful to be back for my second time, my second appearance.

[Kristen Davis]

We just count down the days so we can get you back.

[Lena Waithe]

Look, let's go. It's my favorite season.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, it's my favorite season two.

[Lena Waithe]

Season three is my favorite.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. I feel like it's when everything gelled.

[Lena Waithe]

Everything gels. That's usually how it goes with the season three of shows. But I think for this particular series, I think something happens about season three, like, even for me, and I was watching it in real time at the time and just really experiencing what everybody else was experiencing. This show that was very prolific but was very much a product of its time.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes, indeed. Which we're going to discuss, guys, because this episode is called no Ifs, Ands or buts. It aired July 5th in the year 2000, 25 years ago.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Kristen Davis]

So bonkers. To me, Yeah. I mean, it does seem like another lifetime ago. But on the other hand, like, if you literally think 25 years, it's like, it makes no sense.

[Lena Waithe]

Right. I'm 41, so I was like, you know, in my 20s.

[Kristen Davis]

And where were you when you were in your 20s?

[Lena Waithe]

I was still in Chicago, but, you know, gearing up to come to la.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it.

[Lena Waithe]

But really with the desire to be a television writer. And I've said this publicly before, but I think Sex and the City really made me want to take it very seriously. And I was very charmed and moved by the voiceover, for sure. The character development, the friendships on the show. I think it's why it's on Netflix and everywhere else. And we continue to go back and you guys were able to keep going back for different bites at the apple. No pun intended. But yeah, I think I was sort of really seeing a different kind of TV show. Cause I did grow up on multicams, you know, whether it be friends, Fresh Prince, you know, Cosby Show, A Different World. And I think what was so special about this was like, oh, no, this is like a mini movie every week. And it is. But it's also like a novel.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And I'm just sort of so taken by these characters. And it really was, I think, my generation's, you know, Mary Tyler Moore show and how that was so significant for women in the 70s. This. I think the 2000s was sort of. That was our new sort of awakening.

[Kristen Davis]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Think for us, like, we were just in it. Like I was telling you, that we had Kyle on. And I guess it won't have aired by the time everyone's listening to us. But it was super interesting to be reflecting back on it because we had never reflected together. We had never talked about it. Nothing crazy. You know, we were just in it back then. And we didn't have social media, so we didn't have this immediate response in real time, which had. We aired this particular episode where Samantha decides to date a black man for the first time ever, which is so bizarre.

[Lena Waithe]

But do we know it's for the first time ever?

[Kristen Davis]

She implies it greatly.

[Lena Waithe]

Okay.

[Kristen Davis]

And I went and looked up a few things, like the actress who plays the sister who's so great. The actors are all so great. Her name is Sundra Oakley. She's very good. And she was already friends with the guy, Ossio Highsmith, who plays the guy that Samantha dates, Siobhan. They were already friendly, which was so nice.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, nice.

[Kristen Davis]

And they were very excited. And then she said later, like, maybe even just a couple days later, she was like, oh, I wish it had been a different story. And I feel so bad that she felt that, like, we just didn't do that. Well, I don't think Lena.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, the actress. The actress playing his sister wished it was a different story. I'm curious in terms of how. Meaning.

[Kristen Davis]

I think basically it was for Vanity Fair. They did an article in Vanity Fair about it relatively recently. So she was reflecting back on how she was in her 20s and she was going to auditions and dancing and doing all different things. And it was a big part for her. She was excited to get it. She was excited to be on our set. And she said our set was a very positive experience. I was so happy to hear that. Always wonderful to hear. But then she said just the fact. I think the thing she was most lamenting was that she and Samantha fight. That it was an angry black woman type of a thing. That wasn't. And I think the problem with this episode, and I can't wait to hear what you have to say, is that for some reason, and I think I know what in my memory we were doing or what the idea was. We decided to try to tackle the fact that there were no people of color in the show, which is not how New York City is, obviously, but this particular group of people. And we had discussed it, it had come up different people would bring it up in interview situations or whatever, and they would say, like, you do. Do you feel. To us, the actors. Do you feel this is reflective of New York? And we would always kind of stammer, you know, and we'd say, like, ah, you know, we don't write it. And, you know, we're playing this kind of really specific group of people based on real people, and this is what their lives is like, which I. I don't really know if that's true. Right. Cause I don't really know those people that we were kind of playing.

[Lena Waithe]

I mean, to me, it feels very authentic, actually.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. Okay. That four white women hang out with.

[Kristen Davis]

Each other for sure. But what about one removed?

[Commercial Voice]

Right.

[Kristen Davis]

Like, my question would be. And we do start, you know, soon Sonia Bragg is coming on.

[Announcer]

Right.

[Kristen Davis]

Like, soon it does start to loosen up a bit. Thank God. But, like, are you only hanging out? Do you only ever see white people? Like, if you look back. Because now I'm watching every episode. Right. Like, it is kind of amazing. Like in restaurants or in bars, it's just white people.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, I. It's interesting because there is a level of people. People don't understand is that there's a. There are companies that actually do, like, day player casting.

[Kristen Davis]

Good point.

[Lena Waithe]

Or extras casting.

[Kristen Davis]

Yep, yep.

[Lena Waithe]

And so I think what is also happening. Cause oftentimes you guys will be in real restaurants, and sometimes I think the place you guys usually go is a fictitious place.

[Kristen Davis]

Obviously the coffee shop.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes. It's sort of fictitious.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

It's obviously there for that reason.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Lena Waithe]

So I think this sort of. Is its own world. I mean, there's another thing about Sex and the City too, which is very specific. And something I actually really like is that we never meet the character's parents.

[Announcer]

Right.

[Kristen Davis]

And that was intentional.

[Lena Waithe]

It was intentional. And so this is. It is a fantasy of New York in a way. But also what is sort of grappling with are all these different topics. Topics. And I felt the same way about girls. I don't want a. A black or brown character put into the frame for a quota sake.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true.

[Lena Waithe]

I just don't.

[Announcer]

Good point.

[Lena Waithe]

I don't enjoy it. I don't like it. Because either you're Doing that to pacify or you're doing it in a way where if there's gonna be some sort of specificity about the character, it depends on who's in the writer's room as well.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

So I don't know in terms of. For the. And I know a lot of the writers that were on, you know, on Sex and the City, you know, I've gotten a chance to meet many of them. And yeah, I think for the most part, the room was mostly like white women.

[Kristen Davis]

It was all white women at this point, except for Michael.

[Lena Waithe]

Right. And so that is a reflection of their experiences. And I think it would have felt a little false for them to say, well, let's. Let's put a black character in here because we think it's the right thing to do. Right. I'd rather you do it because it feels organic and it feels honest.

[Kristen Davis]

Well, then, so my question about this episode, because I do feel like at some point people pointed it out and we felt uncomfortable about it, I guess. Right. Or like, is this their world or should it be there? What should we do? Do you know what I'm saying?

[Lena Waithe]

A lot of. I mean, look, I think there are a lot of people that hang out with that look like them, for sure. That's just sort of what it is.

[Kristen Davis]

That's true.

[Lena Waithe]

And especially when you look at our society now, people are in echo chambers. They only talk to people that they agree with.

[Kristen Davis]

That's true.

[Lena Waithe]

And so I think what Sex and the City represents are four women that, in my opinion, happen to be white. And what's interesting to me about it being Samantha who's dating a black guy. And I can't speak for all black women. I can speak for myself in that I look at Samantha as someone who is a woman of the world and who is very free and very open minded. And so her dating a black guy doesn't feel out of the ordinary, in my opinion. I agree.

[Kristen Davis]

That's why it's weird that it seems like she never has. Based on our reaction, I think. Do you know what I mean? At the body shop.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. You guys were like, huh, huh. Yeah. And it's interesting because he's also a man of means, influence. He's very handsome. And that to me, they're very equally yoked.

[Kristen Davis]

I thought they were fantastic.

[Lena Waithe]

And I think the character, his sister one, I thought the actress who plays her is really great in the episode. Me too. I get the sort of cringy element of them fighting. But look, Samantha says something pretty tough to her. So I'm kind of not mad at her having a knee jerk reaction. People like, we've witnessed someone have a knee jerk reaction at a very popular award show because of something that kind of startled them. So we have these moments where you kind of, you know, for lack of a better term, black out, you know, and you kind of do something that you kind of regret.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Lena Waithe]

So I don't look at it as she was an angry black woman. I looked at it as a woman who was feeling very attacked and Samantha touched her.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, that was kind of ick. Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Maybe it wasn't a violent aggressive.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. But it was weird.

[Lena Waithe]

But look, if you put your hands, even if it's a finger on me.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, it was strange. Yeah, I agree.

[Lena Waithe]

You know, but here's the thing. I think there is an authenticity to what's happening and that not every black woman who has a black brother would have a problem with him dating a white woman. But I think if you. There are probably some black women who would say, would I prefer him not be with a white woman? Yes, of course. But I think where I sit. And again, this is Lena Waithe's opinion. I think love is so hard to figure out and come by. I don't care what race, nationality, religion a person is. If they accept you for who you are, you accept them for who they are. And you both are willing to invest in your own spiritual growth and each other's. I'm all for it.

[Kristen Davis]

I agree 100%.

[Lena Waithe]

Now, that that is, you know, that's my opinion. But I also have to respect if someone says. Because it's. It's a thing we took on. On the shy.

[Kristen Davis]

We.

[Lena Waithe]

We tackled it. We're like, that was a season seven, you know, where a black man was dating a white woman. And it is literally a conversation where Phylicia Rashad is at the table and saying, this goes all the way back to Emmett Till.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

There's a history that is steeped in it. And the thing about our past is that it still haunts us. And that's why, you know, there's a reason why there's a million O.J. simpson documentaries for, you know, and the retelling of it.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes. Reexamining.

[Lena Waithe]

Reexamining.

[Kristen Davis]

Over. Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

You know what I'm saying?

[Kristen Davis]

I do.

[Lena Waithe]

And so it is a conversation that will continue.

[Kristen Davis]

Absolutely. Well, it's not worked out. We're not.

[Lena Waithe]

Obviously, no one. Yes. We have not figured it out. This is not a wound that is healed.

[Kristen Davis]

No.

[Lena Waithe]

So when you look at this episode, it is A valid one.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay.

[Lena Waithe]

And I think it's fair game. And so this is something that comes up. Interracial dating is a thing. I have many friends who are the products of interracial love.

[Kristen Davis]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Lena Waithe]

We all do. You know, and so, look, if people want to be upset, they can't be upset.

[Kristen Davis]

But how do we handle it, though? That's my.

[Lena Waithe]

What do you mean? How did you handle. How did the show handle it?

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. Like, I didn't feel like when I. I kind of vaguely remembered, and then of course, I rewatched it and I was like, ooh. Like, I think also because we're trying to do four storylines, as, you know, we've talked about the structure. You know, the structure's always a challenge. And the big. The sorry, the big storyline. Exactly. Is Aiden. And Aiden's new. It's very exciting. He wants her not to smoke. This is so fascinating when you think about their long, long history. Right. Like, he already wants her not to be doing something she's doing. Right. Whether Smokey's good or not, as Easton pointed out, he already is trying to control her, which is interesting.

[Lena Waithe]

Or save her.

[Announcer]

We either.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Announcer]

Both. Both.

[Kristen Davis]

Let's say. Let's say. But it's interesting.

[Lena Waithe]

Right.

[Kristen Davis]

So that's the main storyline. And so Samantha's is this. Well, I don't even know. And then there's. Yeah, probably B stories. Yeah. And I think you're with the bad kisser. I'm the bad kisser. Who's also very bizarre. We'll talk about that. Very different on the page than what Nicole Hilofsen or the director had happened. Like, the dialogue doesn't match, but that's okay. If it were on now, people would be online talking about, you know, he didn't do what she said. You know what I mean? Because he's licking my face. But then I have a big. A big wound on my chin where like.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah, well, he did it. Right.

[Kristen Davis]

But he's just licking it.

[Lena Waithe]

Like, how that sounded like he was, like, kind of going in on that.

[Kristen Davis]

Was he?

[Lena Waithe]

Okay.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. I mean, I know what it was like, how I remember it feeling or whatever. And it was just like a lot. It was wet. It was very wet. There was so much wet. It was bad, but it wasn't like I would have a wound. Right. And I'll get to that in a second because I know why Michael Patrick did that, because he's so bad. And sometimes he would put things in from life. But we'll get to that in a second. But I Think when I look back on it, one of the things that I think is glaring, like Samantha says to. To us at lunch, I don't see color. I see conquest. Which is like a very Samantha statement, but also, like, that's a problem if you don't see color. Because you do see color. Because everything else you say, she talks about his big black cock. You know, she talk. You know, we talk about him wearing jewelry, but, like, Aiden's wearing more jewelry than Siobhan. Do you know what I mean? It's interesting.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, I mean, it's interesting because you asked the question, how did you guys handle it?

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And I think that's a very. It's sort of an interesting question because it's like, it really depends on what you mean by handle. And I think with, you know, television series, because somebody could ask us, like, how do we think we handled my characters coming out on Master of None? Yeah, we did not necessarily handle it. What we did was we approached it in a way that made sense for us as artists at that time. And so I think we kind of get caught up in these ideas of what is the right way to handle something.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay.

[Lena Waithe]

What is the wrong way to handle something? And I just don't believe in either of those things.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. AG's holiday 2025 collection is here. This season, AG explores the intersection of cinematic legacy and sartorial craftsmanship. Drawing inspiration from the crews and directors behind the iconic spaghetti westerns of the 1960s. How exciting. Set against the backdrop of Alabama Hills, a legendary location in film history, the collection channels a sense of sun, bleached grit, timeless style, and quiet confidence. This collection is a tribute to the makers behind the lens. The costume designers, cinematographers and directors whose understated off screen style helped shape on screen legacy. Italian fabrications are at the forefront, paired with western inspired detailing and elevated utility pieces. Shirt jackets, layered textures, and modern silhouettes that make a statement without trying too hard. Denim remains the foundation, but it's reimagined with texture, depth, and timeless wearability that define AG's DNA. The Holiday 2025 collection is available now at Aggenes.com use code KRISTIN15 to take 15% off your next order, even if you've shopped AG before. Cool, you guys. The holidays are coming and I am personally so excited to start making the cookies. It's one of my favorite parts. Every year you get to make them and then you get to eat them and maybe you give them away also. And before you know it, Black Friday is here. And Pandora jewelry is offering up to 40% off storewide and site wide. Now through December 2nd explore jewelry designed to last beyond the season. From classic charms to modern rings, bracelets, earrings and more. Whether you're holiday shopping or treating yourself, now's the perfect time to find something Special. [e-mail] and your local Pandora store.

[Announcer]

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[Commercial Voice]

Limu Emu and Doug Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Kristen Davis]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Commercial Voice]

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[Kristen Davis]

Tools.

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[Kristen Davis]

Let me ask you this. So when if you bring up your own storyline, like you lived that storyline and you were there writing and acting, right? So you had your own authority about the experience and I think that's, you know, gold, you know what I'm saying? And obviously it was.

[Lena Waithe]

Turned into a.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, and worthy of it. But in our case, what I Kind of mean. And I maybe didn't say it well. I wish if we were going to do this, that they had gone more in depth. Possibly. What the actress who played the sister was saying was that when they are in the bar, in the scene where they get in the fight, that Samantha says something to her. Like, why can't you just, you know, get to know me or let me. Whatever. Let me go down the road and see what you think or something. And she said, it's a black thing. The sister says it's a black thing. And she was saying something like she thought that was, like, too simple. Simple and pat, I guess, you know, rather than possibly exploring it more.

[Lena Waithe]

The truth is you only have so much real estate on the page. And also, I think, first of all, like, it's a black thing was something that was a bit of a popular saying for a short beat amongst. Within the black community. And like, I remember when I was young, I would hear, like, people say it within the black folks to say it, but the way it was kind of as a shortcut as saying, I can never make you understand.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it.

[Lena Waithe]

You know, like, you will never understand this. Okay.

[Announcer]

Okay.

[Lena Waithe]

That's interesting. And I think, you know, you don't, because also, they're in the middle of this club. You don't. She doesn't want to go down into the history of our, you know, nation.

[Kristen Davis]

Right, right.

[Lena Waithe]

But she really is sort of telling Samantha, like, you don't. You'll never get it.

[Kristen Davis]

You don't get it.

[Lena Waithe]

You know, and in essence, because what I know, as a television writer, both characters have to be right. And in essence, they are. Because Samantha is saying, well, okay, yeah, I'm not black, but, like, you don't know me. You haven't gotten a chance to spend time. And the interesting thing is, as a person who really likes the Samantha character, I wouldn't mind hanging out with her and getting to know her and vibing with her. She's the fun friend. She's the one that's not gonna judge you. You gonna go. You gonna get into some exclusive place. You know, she's a vibe. And so which. What breaks my heart the most about the episode is that we don't get to explore Samantha dating this black guy.

[Kristen Davis]

I agree. Also because they are so good together.

[Lena Waithe]

That's what always breaks me. That's what's always broken my heart about the episode.

[Kristen Davis]

Interesting.

[Lena Waithe]

It's not about how it was handled, per se, but rather, like, it would have been cool if we could have. That actress could have had maybe a three episode arc. Cause that's usually how long the relationships last on Sex with the City and then had them break up over something that had nothing to do with race.

[Kristen Davis]

That would have been so good.

[Lena Waithe]

But now look, I think for whatever reason, they didn't want to go down that road. And that's fair because there wasn't a black writer in the writers room. And it does get tricky where if you have black actors speaking and there's no black person around, then my. For me, I'd rather like don't even deal with race at all. Like, don't let that be a part of it. If you guys are too scared to kind of go down that road, just let it be. Whatever. And. But because I think they didn't wanna ignore the glaring fact that this is a black woman. She's got this restaurant, she talking about Oprah and whatnot. You got the brother, he's at the Jennifer Lopez release party. So they're very much sort of culturally, you know, intelligent and they know what's going on. They're not unaware of who they are or where they come from. I just think it's important. I like the episode. I think, yeah, of course, maybe you could go back and tweak or adjust things, but I just feel like it's a time capsul. All entertainment is a time capsule. I don't wanna go back and say, well, let's fix this for our comfort.

[Kristen Davis]

No, of course. And I mean, we can't. So it doesn't even matter if we want to.

[Lena Waithe]

And it's reflective. It's reflective. You got to go back and reflect and say, okay, because I'm telling you, it could have been a lot worse. It could have been a situation where you look at it and go, okay, well we gotta talk about this. And we talk about that. I really do. You wanna see women fighting? Like, no. But most reality shows that most people watch involve grown women.

[Kristen Davis]

So true.

[Lena Waithe]

Professional women, well dressed women.

[Kristen Davis]

Yep.

[Lena Waithe]

Physically fighting each other, which is so weird. Throwing tables, throwing like, you know, like drinks.

[Kristen Davis]

So true.

[Lena Waithe]

And so that I can't be offended by that episode and act as if that women kind of going back and forth at each other isn't something that is pushed by some powers that be that are not us.

[Kristen Davis]

That's a good point. That's a good point. I hadn't thought about it in that way. I did think about the year 2000 a little bit and that was like the Survivor had started. It was really big. You know, Friends is obviously big. Er, you Know, it's pretty much white network television world.

[Commercial Voice]

Sure.

[Kristen Davis]

And then we're over there on hbo. But I think that is one of the frustrations that people would express to us at the time was you guys are on HBO and you can do whatever you want. So why is it so, you know, white? Basically, people would say to white, but here's the deal.

[Lena Waithe]

Our entertainment, our media is a reflection of our society. And we live in what I like to call a white leaning society. We live in a white leaning society. Yes, yes. I'll use the Oscars as an example. How many women have won best lead actress in the motion picture who are white?

[Kristen Davis]

One. Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Her name is Halle Berry. How long have the Oscars been around again? We live in a very white leaning society. And that's sort of what it is, you know? And so I think in 2000, it's like, that's a reality of what TV was. And at the same time, I, a young black queer woman in Chicago, was watching the show and. And really felt. It's interesting because I don't know if the word is to say I felt seen. That's not necessarily right. But I felt the show's humanity. I felt because I was still living with my mom, I was like, I wasn't out in the world, but what I was seeing, what you guys did such a beautiful job of was saying your friendships are what will determine what your relationships ultimately look like.

[Kristen Davis]

So good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And that was always the point.

[Kristen Davis]

Definitely.

[Lena Waithe]

It's like, these men are like, they gonna come and go. And sometimes women, right. Will come and go, Right. It is the friendship that sticks. And that is actually a reflection of how I still live my life. And it's not about putting friendships before my relationships, because I do understand that as well. And that with the characters, when your character gets married, they aren't afraid to show us what happens. There is an empty chair now, right? And they're like, for a moment, for a moment, for a moment, for a moment. You come back, but you're the first of the four to transition. And they also show us what happens when one of your friends has a baby right now. She got the baby at the damn table.

[Kristen Davis]

Right?

[Lena Waithe]

And you guys are like. And Samantha's like, what is going on? Like, what are we. Come on. And she's frustrated. It's an inconvenience.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

For her.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

And you guys are like, girl, Sam, you got a ch. Bro. Like, she got a kid. Now relax.

[Kristen Davis]

Right?

[Lena Waithe]

Like. Or you at the table. What are you only talking about your husband and what's going on and, like, our this or that. And it's like, oh, my God. Yes, but it's practice.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true. And it's also. It's intimacy. It's chosen family.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

And that. It is put. And what Michael Patrick did say at one point too, which I think is also, like, even maybe one layer underneath it, is all about your relationship to yourself, you know, and figuring out who you are and what you really want, what's true to you, which I think we've always tried to do, you know, in the whole history of all of it. Like, someone came on the other day and they were saying how unhappy they were that Carrie ends up and just like that, single. And I said, well, that's really funny, because when we ended Sex and the City and she was not single, people were outraged, you know.

[Lena Waithe]

Really?

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Interesting. Okay.

[Kristen Davis]

People were outraged. Some people were outraged. Everyone's gonna project their own thing.

[Lena Waithe]

Right?

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly. Right. Right.

[Lena Waithe]

I mean, but. And I did. I read an article about that, about her, you know, winding up on her own. But I also think it's a statement of the times.

[Kristen Davis]

I do too. Yes. It's the whole thing.

[Lena Waithe]

It's very. It's very topical.

[Kristen Davis]

Did you see this woman wrote this article about being embarrassed to have a boyfriend?

[Lena Waithe]

No, I didn't see it.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God. It's so good and fascinating. Oh, good. So, you know, on social media, it used to. There was like, a whole relationship reveal thing. And, like, my boyfriend's so wonderful and loyal. It's still for sure. But, I mean, now there's another kind of almost like counter programming to that going, you know what? I am my own woman. I make my own money, and I go on trips by myself.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, hello, Tracee Ellis Ross. I told her. I told Tracee. I said, you are a brand of woman. Like, it's like, am I single? Am I divorced? No, I'm Tracee Ellis Ross.

[Announcer]

Totally.

[Kristen Davis]

And that is the future of, like, resorts, apparently. Single women wellness.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, Tracee has a whole show about it.

[Kristen Davis]

I know.

[Lena Waithe]

Solo travel. And obviously you pair that with, like, Carrie's character, you know, being on her own. But I think a big part of that is. And I know there's a lot of women, I wanna say, of a certain age. I don't know what that age can be. It can be any age. But there are a lot of women who are like, you know what? I'd rather do this solo. And some of that may have to do with who are their options? What are what, what, What's. What's coming, you know, are some women saying, let me maybe entertain the idea of dating a woman or someone who's non binary. But also, again, we live in a patriarchal society. Right. So.

[Kristen Davis]

And we're still like, men are the.

[Lena Waithe]

Top of the pyramid.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. But we're. And it's interesting that we're like, trying to figure out, like, how, how to, like we're going around in a circuit about how to deal with that. Do you feel.

[Lena Waithe]

What do you mean in terms of the patriarchal element?

[Kristen Davis]

Like, in terms of I'm a single woman. Right. I got a lot of money, thank God, you know, I've worked hard, I've got my kids, don't really need a man. You know what I mean? But people are so confused by it.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, here's the deal. I mean, I think to me, it's interesting because I was also seeing. I didn't get a chance to watch. I saw the click, the thumbnail and the thing, but I haven't watched the video yet. But it was saying, are women getting the men they deserve? Oh, and. Right. So I saved it. I will watch that later because I'm curious what that. It's a podcast episode. I'm not sure what that conversation is like, but the truth is. And I'll even say person too. I don't want to make it so binary, but. But the truth is it's a matter of do you want to be on your own team or do you want to be in a scenario where you're. You're on the team with someone else? And that is. Those are two very different lifestyles, for sure.

[Kristen Davis]

For sure.

[Lena Waithe]

And they both come with their pros and cons, right?

[Kristen Davis]

AG's holiday 2025 collection is here. This season, AG explores the intersection of cinematic legacy and sartorial craftsmanship, drawing inspiration from the crews and directors behind the iconic spaghetti westerns of the 1960s. Set against the backdrop of Alabama Hills, a legendary location in film history, the collection channels a sense of sun, bleached grit, timeless style, and quiet confidence. This collection is a tribute to the makers behind the lens. The costume designers, cinematographers and directors whose understated off screen style helped shape on screen legacy. The holiday 2025 collection is available now at aggeens.com use code Kristin15 to take 15% off your next order. Even if you've shopped AG before. You guys, the holidays are coming and I am personally so excited to start making the cookies. It's one of my favorite parts. Every year, you get to make them and then you get to eat them. And maybe you give them away also. And before you know it, Black Friday is here and Pandora Jewelry is offering up to 40% off store wide and site wide now through December 2nd. Explore jewelry designed to last beyond the season. From classic charms to modern rings, bracelets, earrings and more. Whether you're holiday shopping or treating yourself, now's the perfect time to find something Special. [e-mail] to and your local Pandora store.

[Announcer]

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[Commercial Voice]

Limu Kimu and Doug Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Kristen Davis]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Commercial Voice]

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[Kristen Davis]

When I look back on the show, there's so many things like with Steve Steve in this Particular episode.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, man. It's a really good episode for Steve.

[Kristen Davis]

It's so good. He's so good.

[Lena Waithe]

He's great, isn't he?

[Kristen Davis]

So great. And I really, really didn't understand at the time how great he was.

[Lena Waithe]

I think I've always liked Steve. Always. Blue collar guy. Yeah. And just so solid.

[Kristen Davis]

Real grounded. Grounded and solid. And like such a big heart.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, my God. Huge heart.

[Kristen Davis]

And Samantha's. Sorry. Miranda's so closed that it's the perfect combination. But then also, we know what happens. And you can also kind of understand what happens. Right. Because he's just like this kind of puppy.

[Lena Waithe]

Big, huge heart.

[Kristen Davis]

And she's like, no, no.

[Lena Waithe]

But again, that. What I love is that that relationship brought out so much in both of them.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

You know, he Opposites. Yeah. She helped him grow up and he helped her relax.

[Kristen Davis]

Because he is like a child. I mean, he's like a child when he's like, come to the playground. Come to the playground.

[Lena Waithe]

But here's the deal. Like, how do we define child?

[Kristen Davis]

Good point. Good point, good point. But, like, I felt like she was the mommy in that conversation. Right. Where she's like, well, you're probably not.

[Lena Waithe]

Gonna win, but here's the deal. And by the way, like, that's. I love that. You need to have everybody's perspective. And also, both sides need to be right. And so she's probably right, but so was he.

[Kristen Davis]

Totally. Totally. I mean. I mean. And that's the point, I think, really. Well, well done. Where she goes and they have that famous scene in front of Magnolia Bakery with the cupcakes. And she's like, yeah. You know, I just. It seems really stupid.

[Lena Waithe]

Silly. Use the word silly.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And of course, Carrie's like, wasn't that what couples are supposed to do? Believe in each other's silly? Like, dreams? True.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Lena Waithe]

True. And, well, at least be supportive.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

You know, and I support the other.

[Kristen Davis]

Person what they want.

[Lena Waithe]

Exactly.

[Kristen Davis]

Silly.

[Lena Waithe]

But what it is, it forces her to grow. Yes. Because I love that. Yes. She's at the. She's at her, you know, her. Her desk and she's working. And it goes back to what I was saying. When you're in a relationship with someone, if she wasn't with him, she would not have gone outside and gotten some fresh air.

[Kristen Davis]

No, for sure.

[Lena Waithe]

She would just been in the apartment.

[Kristen Davis]

No, of course.

[Lena Waithe]

You know, and so.

[Kristen Davis]

And she also wouldn't think about what are.

[Lena Waithe]

What are his dreams, but also what's possible or it's okay to believe in something that seems like, it would never happen.

[Kristen Davis]

Right? Totally.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. So I just think, like, that, to me, is so beautiful and special, and I think it sends a really nice message out to people.

[Kristen Davis]

Me too. I was really happy I didn't remember any of that storyline, I think. Cause I'm not.

[Lena Waithe]

We're not.

[Kristen Davis]

We're now all a bit siloed, you know, in terms of our storylines. And I just remember. I remember them having so much stuff and thinking it was good at the time because it was such a deep arc. I'm always all for that.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

And we really made use of that on the show in such a beautiful way. The writers and I love that as a viewer, you know, as well, like, really getting time to see.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, yeah. That's why we love Steve and Aiden. That's why, obviously, Aiden being introduced. And later we'll see how Aiden and Steve come together and those guys. Cause they're very much, you know, kind of cut from the same clip. They open the bar together and all that stuff.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God. Yes. I. I forget all these things. It's really fun to rewatch.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

I have never rewatched.

[Lena Waithe]

You gotta understand, most of us, we, like, just go back and, like, have it on. It's like the Office. It's like anything else. We are. It's. It's this encyclopedia. It's a library. And the fact there's like three chapters of it is the show. The movies. The movie era, which was, like, huge. Okay. I remember the midnight showing. You know, the Grove.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, wow. The Grove.

[Lena Waithe]

We went to the Grove for the. The midnight screening of the first Sex and City movie.

[Kristen Davis]

It's so crazy not knowing what to expect. You got to do it. Exactly.

[Lena Waithe]

But not knowing what to expect. I think in terms of society.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Like saying, would people go?

[Kristen Davis]

Would people not. Would people freak out? No, that's the industry. This is what the industry was saying we were not supposed to do. Well, I know. Because they can't ever learn that lesson that women want to go to the.

[Lena Waithe]

Movies and gay men.

[Kristen Davis]

And gay men, absolutely.

[Lena Waithe]

But it was a really. I'll never forget that experience. Going to see that movie and seeing. Seeing the cultural impact.

[Kristen Davis]

Amazing.

[Lena Waithe]

Because you're like, yeah, who is gonna. You know? And I wouldn't have minded if it wasn't like. It's like Sex and the City fanatics.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly.

[Lena Waithe]

It's like, whatever. But it was almost as if everybody that was at home, like. Cause you are siloed. You're home watching it yourself, and then you talk about it with your Maybe you have a watch party depending, Right? And I think when the movies happened, it was like a freaking Star wars convention. It was like we all were like, oh, we're all in the same place.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Watching the same thing. And it was really cool. It's cool to be around your people. And it felt like, absolutely.

[Kristen Davis]

That's what. Going to the movies. Why we can never lose it.

[Lena Waithe]

No, you can't, because it's too special. It's too important. It's too magical.

[Kristen Davis]

It's a communal experience in the dark.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. And y' all gave us, you know, some big movie. I know that the word is like, you know, a pun, but, like, just some really big movie moments. I mean, talk about set pieces and, like. Cause you do wonder, what are we gonna do? Like, what's it gonna be? And it's like, Michael Patrick was like, you'll see. Don't. Don't worry. And then. But obviously then the third chapter and final is, you know, and just like that, which is to have those three eras is pretty iconic.

[Kristen Davis]

I agree.

[Lena Waithe]

It is.

[Kristen Davis]

It's beyond. It's beyond anything that I can even really sometimes get my own mind around it. And I have lived through it, but I also don't feel like it's done.

[Lena Waithe]

Mm.

[Kristen Davis]

I don't. Wow, look at you. I don't look at you. In my gut. I don't. Do you know what I mean? Michael's on his own page. I don't know. Sarah's on her own page, of course. But I don't feel. I did feel complete after, you know.

[Lena Waithe]

And just like that or.

[Kristen Davis]

No, after the second movie, we thought we were gonna do the third movie. Right.

[Lena Waithe]

And then it kind of turned into. And just like that, I think.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. Over time. It took time, but during that time, I'd see Michael and I'd see the girls, obviously, and we'd discuss, like, what should we do? Should we do something? You know, it was always.

[Lena Waithe]

I know. It's always get the band back together.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly. And there was always that chance, which was exciting and nice, but also we still had each other in our lives, which is also amazing.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, that's beautiful.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, it's the best part. But then. And now. That's true now. And so then we did it just like that. And I really thought we'd keep going, because that's me, right? It's just me.

[Lena Waithe]

You're that always eternal optimist. So just keep going forever.

[Kristen Davis]

I was like, well, why wouldn't we? You know what I'm saying?

[Lena Waithe]

Like, yeah, I Mean, yeah, it's a look. I mean, we're gonna write. We're season eight for the shiny.

[Kristen Davis]

We're gonna.

[Lena Waithe]

You know, it's our final season. But I think it really was. I definitely was thinking about those final interviews that you guys did for Sex and the City the first time around. After the six.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

And I just remember, you know, Saraja Parker saying, like, you want to leave while the party's cresting. You want to refresh.

[Announcer]

I know.

[Kristen Davis]

I was like, what are you saying?

[Lena Waithe]

What are you saying?

[Kristen Davis]

The whole time she was saying that, I was like, what are you talking about? We don't want to leave.

[Lena Waithe]

But here's the deal. Here's the deal. It was hard. It was tough because you think like, ah, damn, six seasons. Come on. But it felt right. It felt. It did. It felt. It felt. Because otherwise you don't want to go out with a whimper.

[Kristen Davis]

No, that's true.

[Lena Waithe]

And you want people to gather. And people.

[Announcer]

That's true.

[Kristen Davis]

People did gather.

[Lena Waithe]

People gather.

[Kristen Davis]

For me, I think at the time that the show, you know, Sarah had her baby and Cynthia had her baby. So for me, I was living life with them, watching that. And that is a huge new chapter in life right then. I also really did believe at the time that we ended the first show that we would make a movie. And that was super exciting. Right.

[Lena Waithe]

How much time was that, though, between it ending and it was more time.

[Kristen Davis]

Than it was supposed to be. Because they had a hold on us in our contract.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Which was part of the negotiation for the final season. You know how they like to put everything in together. They're like, well, you would like more money. We would like this X, Y and Z. Oh, right.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

I love those conversations. And I was like, yes, yes, I will give you X, Y and Z. Put me on hold to make a movie, please.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, you're like, sure, fine.

[Kristen Davis]

I'm like, that is no problem.

[Lena Waithe]

That's interesting. So you guys had that, but then it expired. Oh, yes.

[Kristen Davis]

I had the callback, Don. And we talked about it a little bit.

[Lena Waithe]

Okay.

[Kristen Davis]

And. Cause he was in charge of HBO at the time.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Kristen Davis]

And he had the foresight to think of a film.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow, that's interesting.

[Kristen Davis]

But then. And so he commissioned the script for Michael Patrick, and Michael Patrick was writing the script, which we knew about. Right. And so we had a hold in our contract. It was, I wanna say, a year or a year and a half. Not that long for us to start production.

[Announcer]

Right.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Kristen Davis]

And I remember Michael calling and telling me the ideas, not seeing A script, but hearing the ideas, and I was, michael, anything you want me to do, I'm here. I will do. I was very, very excited. And I thought this would just be amazing even if it was just a small cult y kind of a movie. You know what I'm trying to say?

[Lena Waithe]

Right.

[Kristen Davis]

Like, we didn't know. You know, we didn't know.

[Lena Waithe]

Right.

[Kristen Davis]

But the problem was HBO didn't know who was going to finance and or distribute it. Right. Because we were all in Time Warner. But hbo, we don't release movies.

[Lena Waithe]

Did it end up being Warner Brothers?

[Kristen Davis]

It ended up being New Line, which is under Warner Brothers.

[Lena Waithe]

Right.

[Kristen Davis]

But that was so the first time around when Chris had commissioned the script from Michael Patrick. The hold expired.

[Lena Waithe]

Got it.

[Kristen Davis]

And I was devastated.

[Lena Waithe]

Because you wanted to do the movie.

[Kristen Davis]

God, yes.

[Lena Waithe]

Okay.

[Kristen Davis]

But then, you know, Michael Patrick's not gonna give up once he's got a creative idea.

[Lena Waithe]

I know, right?

[Kristen Davis]

So he had a creative idea, and he was like, we're gonna figure it out. But it was hard because it had never been done. Right. Where you've got an IP that has been over here.

[Lena Waithe]

Exactly.

[Kristen Davis]

Then you're wanting to put it over here. So it took Toby Emmerich saying, stepping up to the plate when he did. And what Chris said was the turning point was Devil Wears Prada. One did so well. That was one of our directors, David Frankel.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly. And Chris was like, that's our movie. Why didn't we make our movie? We're so stupid.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, Devil Wears Prada came out before.

[Kristen Davis]

Isn't that bizarre? It's not how I remember it, but that's what Chris told me. And I looked it up, and I think it's accurate.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, well, yeah, I believe that. Wow.

[Kristen Davis]

Interesting, right? So he was like, why didn't we go ahead? We should go ahead.

[Lena Waithe]

I think. I think. Well, I think everything happens exactly the way it's supposed to. But I think that amount of time. And again, I can't put my finger on how much time it was from.

[Kristen Davis]

When the last episode aired between 2004-2008. That's four years.

[Lena Waithe]

That, to me, is such a beautiful amount of time. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

That's not too long, not too short.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it really kind of gave people time to kind of miss you guys.

[Kristen Davis]

So. True.

[Lena Waithe]

And, you know, and obviously. And it made sense in terms of where you guys left off that, oh, yeah, they would be maybe thinking about getting married at this point. And this is where Samantha would be, and this is where Miranda would Be. It just all. And also, it was cool just to kind of get a sense of, where are they now? Where's everybody get the quick, like, catch up and checking in and all these things? And then it's like, you know, for the fandom that is the show, everybody sitting in that theater is like, oh, okay. Oh, oh, oh. Just because you have all these ideas of what happened to them once you left them. Yeah. That. That first movie is, like, just, like, huge. And then, of course. Of course, because it did so well. You're gonna have a sequel.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true. We were supposed to have three. That was the plan.

[Lena Waithe]

The fact that you guys are trying to do three movies is insane to me.

[Kristen Davis]

I know. It is insane, but this is how we roll, Lena. We're crazy. Do you know what I mean?

[Lena Waithe]

I would have hung up after the first one. After the first movie, I'd have been like, that is a. A wonderful. No.

[Kristen Davis]

Nobody wants you to hang up when you do well the first time.

[Lena Waithe]

But guess what?

[Kristen Davis]

I'm not too sure. Let me tell you something.

[Lena Waithe]

I'll say it here.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

I love that there was never a sequel to Bridesmaids.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, that's a good point. That's a good point. That's a good point.

[Lena Waithe]

And I know that Kristen Wiig and her amazing writing partner probably were offered something.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And I'm sure there's a story behind it.

[Kristen Davis]

I'm sure there is.

[Lena Waithe]

But the I. And I think that movie made it on the top 100 movies of the. Well, some century. The New York Times did whatever. Which was cool. And I said to myself, and I think the reason why is because they let that movie stand. They were like, we're not going back.

[Kristen Davis]

Smart.

[Lena Waithe]

It did what it needed to do.

[Kristen Davis]

Smart.

[Lena Waithe]

That's it. And I'll say, I mean, look, I'm happy that there was another movie. We all were. But that first Sex in the City movie.

[Kristen Davis]

No, I know.

[Lena Waithe]

Is. It can stand on its own.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true. It's.

[Lena Waithe]

Even if you've never seen the show. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

It's beautiful. Right?

[Lena Waithe]

You can watch that movie and just say, wow, I agree. That is, I agree. And you guys give us a feast.

[Kristen Davis]

I know. I agree. I agree. Michael Patrick did a great job with the first one and the second one, too, in a different way. But, like, I understand what you're saying, but it's really hard.

[Lena Waithe]

I get it. No, no, y'. All, it was nuts. It was like. It was. It was everywhere. It was crazy. So I get it.

[Kristen Davis]

It's crazy. And it's crazy because we were such a. I say this, people don't believe me, but we were like the little train that could, you know. Is that the word?

[Lena Waithe]

Little engine that could.

[Kristen Davis]

Little engine that could. Thank you so much. You're a good writer. You know, we weren't supposed to ever be successful, you know, but we just had like. Like we were so committed. Like, like we are going to tell these stories.

[Lena Waithe]

But my question is, why did people think it wouldn't? Or why did you think that you weren't supposed to be.

[Kristen Davis]

Because there was nothing like it. There was no shame which to me to be successful 100%. Absolutely. But there was no, like, you know how our voice is. Yes. There's no precedent. And you know how they like to say, like the four quadrant, the blah, blah, blah.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, the question becomes, did Waiting to Exhale come out before the show? Because that came up with myself and Loretta Devine on Legacy Talk.

[Kristen Davis]

Good point.

[Lena Waithe]

Where, because I know Girlfriends was like right after you guys. And so there were, there were these black women quads, you know, that sort of, I think.

[Kristen Davis]

Waiting for Exhale.

[Lena Waithe]

Waiting to excel.

[Kristen Davis]

Someone should look it up.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. Waiting to Exhale. What year did that come out?

[Kristen Davis]

I feel like 95.

[Lena Waithe]

Right before us, Right?

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And that was a huge hit.

[Kristen Davis]

Good point, good point, good point.

[Lena Waithe]

Look, I gotta give credit to Loretta Devine.

[Announcer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

The Great Loretta Devine.

[Kristen Davis]

100.

[Lena Waithe]

Because she was like, she says it, she says it. I literally have to talk. She's like, what's the one with the white girls running around New York City? I said sex of the city. That's so cute, that one. She was like, yeah, that came after Waiting to Exhale.

[Kristen Davis]

Success. True. That's a good point. And I remember that was a big, like, everyone was like, whoa, Huge.

[Lena Waithe]

You know what I'm saying? And so I think, I think that again, it goes back to a patriarchal society. Yes. Where that women we are, there's no argument about it, are seen as second class citizens in our own nation, our world, all over the world. And so the idea for women talking about their sexuality, being friends, dating, having real autonomy.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Lena Waithe]

Feels like, well, is that gonna be Mary Tyler Moore show? They literally had to save it.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Lena Waithe]

They were putting it on Saturdays and going like, nobody's gonna stay home. And again, a lot of it is there is so much doubt when it comes to us.

[Kristen Davis]

So much.

[Lena Waithe]

And so we. It's so interesting. Cause when you say the lunch and that come like, what? Why would anyone think that makes so much sense? And, and you know and look again because we live in a white leaning world. Yes, it's white women that get that push, you know. But I am grateful for movies like Set it Off and girls trip like the quads continue. The quads continue.

[Kristen Davis]

Thank God, right? Thank God.

[Lena Waithe]

And the Astro 20s. We did a trio. You know, we did have a trio.

[Kristen Davis]

It was fantastic.

[Lena Waithe]

You know, it's like that was. Thank you so much.

[Kristen Davis]

I mean any version. You know what I'm trying to say.

[Lena Waithe]

Ladies talking is always a vibe. Absolutely.

[Kristen Davis]

And talking freely, talking freely about their.

[Lena Waithe]

Emotions, about who they're dating, all that. And so yeah, I think Sex and the City made it very popular. But I totally get like there was some sort of backlash because it's showing women having a voice, not necessarily needing a man to approve them, but rather them building their own bond and finding their own self love. So of course there's going to be a threat to society that sees women as people that need to be dependent on men.

[Kristen Davis]

All right, everyone, thanks for joining. Lena Waithe and I, we are going to continue. So please join us later in the week for part two with Lena Waith. Wonderful as always. AG's holiday 2025 collection is here. This season, AG explores the intersection of cinematic legacy and sartorial craftsmanship. Drawing inspiration from the crews and directors behind the iconic spaghetti westerns of the 1960s. Set against the backdrop of Alabama Hills, a legendary location in film history, the collection channels a sense of sun, bleached grit, timeless style and quiet confidence. This collection is a tribute to the makers behind the lens, the costume designers, cinematographers and directors whose understated off screen style helped shape on screen Legacy. The Holiday 2025 collection is available now at aggeans.com use code KRISTIN15 to take 15% off your next order. Even if you've shoved AG before.

[Announcer]

Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there the last one.

[Kristen Davis]

Enjoy a Coca Cola for a pause that refreshes.

[Announcer]

No, it's not too soon to start holiday shopping. Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is happening now through November 22nd. Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like Mac and too faced. Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and body makeup. With new offers dropping every week, our associates can help you find the perfect gifts. Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here. We know no one's journey is the same. That's why Delta SkyMiles moves with you from earning miles on reloads for coffee runs, shopping and things you do every day to connecting you to new experiences. A SkyMiles membership fits into your lifestyle, letting you do more of what makes you you. It's more than travel. It's the membership that flies, dines, streams, rides and arrives with you. Because when you have a membership that's as unique as you are, there's no telling where your journey will take you next. Learn [e-mail] SkyMiles ABC Wednesday, it's the CMA Awards live.

[Lena Waithe]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Commercial Voice]

With performances Lainey Wilson, Kelsey Ballerini, Zach Topp, Riley Greene, Ella Langley, Kenny Chesney, Megan Maroney, Brandi Carlisle and the hottest collabs, Miranda Lambert and Chris Stapleton, Jabuzzi and Steven Wilson Jr. Big Extra plug featuring Lip combs. It's country music's biggest night hosted by.

[Kristen Davis]

Your girl, Lainey Wilson.

[Commercial Voice]

The CMA Awards live Wednesday, 8, 7 Central on ABC and next day on Hulu.

[Lena Waithe]

This is an I heart podcast.