Are You A Charlotte? | "Her Return is Worth the Waithe" with Lena Waithe

Episode: S3 E5 ("No Ifs, Ands or Butts")
Date: November 17, 2025
Host: Kristin Davis
Guest: Lena Waithe
Podcast by: iHeartPodcasts

Episode Overview

This episode reunites Kristin Davis (Charlotte from Sex and the City) with acclaimed writer, producer, and actress Lena Waithe—her first-ever returning guest. Together, they revisit Season 3, Episode 5 of Sex and the City ("No Ifs, Ands or Butts," aired July 5th, 2000), a key episode where the show attempts to address its lack of diversity through a storyline involving Samantha dating a Black man.

In a candid, thoughtful discussion, Kristin and Lena reflect on the complexities of representation, storytelling, and friendship on Sex and the City. They also discuss the legacy of the show, its movies, and social changes regarding women’s autonomy, friendship, and sexuality.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Season 3: The Sweet Spot of "Sex and the City"

• Both Kristin and Lena agree that Season 3 is when the show "gelled" and hit its stride.
• Lena: “Everything gels. That’s usually how it goes with the season three of shows. But I think for this particular series, something happens...” (04:00).
• Lena reminisces about watching the show in real-time and being inspired to take television writing seriously, highlighting its cinematic and novel-like qualities.

2. Addressing Race and Representation (Core Theme)

• The main focus is on the episode’s attempt to tackle diversity, as Samantha dates a Black man for the first time.
• Kristin recalls how the lack of people of color on the show was repeatedly brought up by the public and press:
  “We decided to try to tackle the fact that there were no people of color in the show, which is not how New York City is, obviously..." (07:07).
• Discussions on casting choices, lack of diversity in writers’ room (“all white women at this point, except for Michael” - 11:02), and the tension between representation and tokenism:
  • Lena: “I don’t want a Black or brown character put into the frame for a quota sake. ... Do it because it feels organic and honest.” (10:27–11:25)
• They explore the challenges and limits of the show’s approach in this episode, including the “angry Black woman” trope and a key line (“it’s a Black thing”) which Lena unpacks as a shorthand for “you can never make you understand.” (24:08–24:37)

3. Interracial Dating: Storyline Reflections and Missed Opportunities

• Lena appreciates the attempt, while wishing the show had allowed for more depth:
  “What breaks my heart the most about the episode is that we don’t get to explore Samantha dating this Black guy...” (25:41)
• She suggests it would have been more powerful for the relationship to unfold over multiple episodes and end for reasons unrelated to race.

4. Friendship, Female Autonomy, and the Show’s Legacy

• Lena describes Sex and the City as “my generation’s Mary Tyler Moore show,” (05:57–06:15) a cultural touchstone for women’s stories.
• Both reflect on the importance of friendship as the show’s foundation:
  • Lena: “Your friendships are what will determine what your relationships ultimately look like.” (29:48)
  • Kristin: “It’s intimacy. It’s chosen family.” (31:02)
• Kristin discusses audience reactions to the characters’ choices—particularly Carrie’s solo ending in And Just Like That: “When we ended Sex and the City and she was not single, people were outraged...”

5. Show Structure and Behind-the-Scenes Anecdotes

• Kristin details the balancing act of four storylines, citing the “bad kisser” subplot as an example where on-set interpretation diverged from script (17:07–17:12).
• Insights into production decisions—like the absence of characters’ parents—add to the show’s “fantasy New York” quality (09:56–10:06).

6. Broader Societal Reflection

• The pair analyze how media reflects and perpetuates a "white-leaning society," with Lena using the Oscars and network television as examples (28:25–28:43).
• Comparison with other “female quads” in media, such as Waiting to Exhale and Girlfriends, highlighting the rarity and significance of these ensembles, especially for Black women (51:42–53:14).
• Lena: “Our entertainment, our media is a reflection of our society. … We live in what I like to call a white-leaning society.” (28:25)

7. The Magic of the Movies & Fandom

• Lena recounts the communal experience of attending the midnight premiere of the first Sex and the City movie, calling it a "Star Wars convention for fans" (41:48–42:54).
• Discussion of the transition from show to movies, including contract negotiations and the influence of The Devil Wears Prada on getting the movie made (46:12–48:06).
• On sequels:
  • Lena: “I love that there was never a sequel to Bridesmaids.” (49:50)
  • On Sex and the City: “That first [movie] can stand on its own.” (50:26–50:40)

8. Evolving Narratives for Women

• Exploration of women’s changing relationships to marriage, partnership, and independence—“the future of like, resorts, apparently: single women wellness” (32:36).
• Lena references Tracee Ellis Ross as an example of autonomous womanhood in media.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lena Waithe on Diversity:
  “I don’t want a Black or brown character put into the frame for a quota sake.… Do it because it feels organic and honest.” (10:27–11:25)

• Kristin Davis on Reflecting NYC:
  “We decided to try to tackle the fact that there were no people of color in the show, which is not how New York City is, obviously…” (07:07)

• On Friendship as the Heart of the Show:
  Lena: “Your friendships are what will determine what your relationships ultimately look like.” (29:48)
  Kristin: “It’s intimacy. It’s chosen family.” (31:02)

• Lena on Missed Storytelling:
  “What breaks my heart the most about the episode is that we don’t get to explore Samantha dating this Black guy...” (25:41)

• Media as a Time Capsule:
  Lena: “All entertainment is a time capsule. I don’t want to go back and say, well, let’s fix this for our comfort.” (26:09–27:02)

• Lena on Sequels:
  “I love that there was never a sequel to Bridesmaids.… It did what it needed to do.” (49:50–50:26)

• Lena on Women’s Stories in Media:
  “The quads continue. ... Ladies talking is always a vibe. … And talking freely about their emotions, about who they’re dating, all that.” (53:38–54:13)

Key Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamps | |---------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Season 3 as pivotal season | 03:55–06:15 | | Tackling race, representation | 06:47–14:36 | | Samantha/Samantha’s storyline critique | 12:52–17:58 | | Quota vs. organic representation | 10:27–11:25 | | “It’s a black thing” explanation | 24:08–24:47 | | Steve and Miranda’s relationship | 38:22–41:12 | | The communal movie experience | 41:24–42:54 | | TV-to-movie transition and licensing hurdles | 45:34–48:06 | | Discussion on movie sequels, Bridesmaids | 49:50–50:40 | | On quads of women in media (Girlfriends, Exhale) | 51:42–53:33 |

Tone & Language

The conversation is heartfelt, witty, and reflective, featuring camaraderie, honesty about the struggles of representation, and deep appreciation for Sex and the City’s legacy. Lena brings both critique and praise, while Kristin is candid about the show’s limitations and the journey of its fan and creative community.

Closing Note

Kristin and Lena close by acknowledging that the work—and the conversations—are ongoing. Lena will return for a second part, promising further insight into the past, present, and future of women’s storytelling both on and off the screen.

Listen to the next episode for Part 2 with Lena Waithe!