I Want Candace... More with Candace Bushnell...

Summary

Podcast Summary: "I Want Candace... More with Candace Bushnell" Episode of "Are You A Charlotte?" by iHeartPodcasts Release Date: April 24, 2025

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Introduction and Guest Introduction ([03:29] – [03:47])

Kristen Davis welcomes the episode by introducing the special guest, the creator of Sex and the City, Candace Bushnell. She expresses her excitement about delving into untold stories and behind-the-scenes insights of the iconic show.

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Origins of Sex and the City and Candace Bushnell’s Writing Journey ([03:47] – [08:22])

Discussion Points:

• Candace’s Early Career: Candace shares her experience writing for the New York Observer, focusing on women's relationships, sex, and societal roles in the 1980s.
• Creation of the Column: When asked how she came to write the Sex and the City column, Candace explains that it was a natural extension of her work, blending themes of sex and society to mirror her analyses of New York City's dating scene.

Notable Quotes:

• Candace Bushnell: “It was Sex and the City. It had one foot in sex, one foot in society, and it was really pretty much the same as what I'd been writing in the 80s.” ([06:02])

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Character Development and Real-Life Inspirations ([08:22] – [15:41])

Discussion Points:

• Inspiration Behind Characters: Candace discusses how her real-life friends inspired characters like Samantha and Miranda, altering their names and traits to fit the narrative.
• Christine's Real-Life Experiences: She recounts personal anecdotes, such as dealing with roommate issues and relationships, which fed into the show's authentic storytelling.
• Meeting Darren Star: Candace narrates her meeting with Darren Star, the show's creator, highlighting his sense of humor and collaborative spirit that eventually led to the optioning of her book for television.

Notable Quotes:

• Candace Bushnell: “He has the best sense of humor.” ([16:21])
• Candace Bushnell: “I took Darren for the first time to the Hamptons...and it was really a big step in turning my column into a TV show.” ([15:13])

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Transition from Column to Television ([15:41] – [19:10])

Discussion Points:

• Optioning the Book: Candace details how Darren convinced her to move forward with HBO, noting the allure of creative freedom that the network offered compared to other studios.
• Adapting the Content: She explains the challenges of translating her column into a television format, ensuring that the essence of her writing was preserved while adapting to the medium's demands.

Notable Quotes:

• Candace Bushnell: “Having a showrunner like Darren is incredible.” ([17:57])
• Candace Bushnell: “We don’t want it to be about plumbing... it's about the things that go around sex.” ([19:10])

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Impact of Sex and the City on Society and Women's Empowerment ([19:10] – [31:03])

Discussion Points:

• Cultural Shifts: Candace reflects on how Sex and the City pushed boundaries, making conversations about women's lives and sexuality more mainstream and empowering.
• Evolution of Relationships: She discusses the changing attitudes toward heterosexual relationships, noting a growing skepticism and desire for more equitable partnerships among women.
• Singlehood and Female Friendships: The podcast explores how the show normalized being single in your 30s and emphasized the importance of female friendships in navigating life in New York City.

Notable Quotes:

• Candace Bushnell: “Sex and the City... has made women so much more aware and emboldened.” ([29:25])
• Candace Bushnell: “There are now more and more single women, which is great. I think it's like 51% of the population.” ([53:02])

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Behind the Scenes and Personal Reflections ([31:03] – [43:38])

Discussion Points:

• Reception and Success: Candace shares her surprise and joy at the show's Emmy nominations, reflecting on how unexpected the widespread acclaim was.
• Personal Relationships vs. On-Screen Characters: She delves into her real-life relationship with the inspiration behind Mr. Big, paralleling it with the on-screen tumultuous romance.
• Growth of the Series: The conversation covers the show's development beyond initial seasons and how it maintained relevance through authentic storytelling and relatable characters.

Notable Quotes:

• Candace Bushnell: “I thought it seemed very normal. But I wasn’t right.” ([50:59])
• Candace Bushnell: “It was really incredible that the show kept going, and it's still going.” ([43:38])

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Modern Dating Landscape and Societal Changes ([43:38] – [57:43])

Discussion Points:

• Changes in Dating Norms: The podcast examines how dating has evolved since the show's inception, highlighting the shift from traditional courting methods to modern challenges like digital interactions.
• Breadcrumbing and Relationship Dynamics: Candace discusses contemporary dating behaviors such as breadcrumbing, contrasting them with the more straightforward relationships depicted in Sex and the City.
• Women’s Autonomy in Relationships: She emphasizes the increasing agency women have in relationships today, questioning the necessity and structure of traditional heterosexual partnerships.

Notable Quotes:

• Candace Bushnell: “Now there are more and more single women... women have just changed their attitude so much.” ([53:12])
• Candace Bushnell: “There is still this dichotomy where the romance is bigger than ever, but women are also saying they won’t follow societal norms.” ([57:08])

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Current Projects and Future Endeavors ([57:43] – [58:20])

Discussion Points:

• One-Woman Show: Candace introduces her latest project, True Tales of Sex, Success, and Sex and the City, detailing its global tour and the stories it encapsulates about the origins and impacts of the show.
• Upcoming Performances: She announces her performance at Sony Hall on May 16th, inviting fans to engage with her new material that bridges her writing with her television success.

Notable Quotes:

• Candace Bushnell: “We’re at Sony Hall on May 16th.” ([58:14])
• Candace Bushnell: “True Tales of Sex, Success and Sex and the City is the origin story...” ([05:34])

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Concluding Remarks and Closing ([58:20] – [58:33])

Kristen Davis expresses her gratitude to Candace Bushnell for her insightful contributions to the podcast and congratulates her on her ongoing successes. The episode closes with a heartfelt acknowledgment of Candace's influence on both the literary and television landscapes.

Notable Quotes:

• Kristen Davis: “Congratulations on all of your so many New York Times bestsellers and everything that you do.” ([58:27])
• Candace Bushnell: “Thank you.” ([58:13])

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Are You A Charlotte? offers an in-depth exploration of Candace Bushnell’s journey from writing a column to creating one of the most influential television series centered on women's lives and relationships in New York City. Through candid conversations, the podcast delves into the genesis of Sex and the City, its cultural impact, and the evolving dynamics of modern relationships. Candace's reflections provide valuable insights into the show's enduring legacy and the societal shifts it both mirrored and influenced.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. Candace Bushnell: “It was Sex and the City. It had one foot in sex, one foot in society..." ([06:02])
2. Candace Bushnell: “He has the best sense of humor.” ([16:21])
3. Candace Bushnell: “Sex and the City... has made women so much more aware and emboldened.” ([29:25])
4. Candace Bushnell: “Now there are more and more single women... women have just changed their attitude so much.” ([53:12])
5. Candace Bushnell: “True Tales of Sex, Success and Sex and the City is the origin story...” ([05:34])

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Conclusion

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the pivotal discussions and insights shared by Candace Bushnell on the Are You A Charlotte? podcast episode. From the inception of Sex and the City to its profound societal impact, the conversation underscores the show's significance in reshaping narratives around women, relationships, and independence.

Transcript

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[Kristen Davis]

Hi, I'm Kristen Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? You guys, it's exciting. On the podcast today, we have none other than Kendice Bushnell. Thank you for being with us.

[Candace Bushnell]

Oh, I'm so thrilled to be here.

[Kristen Davis]

We have so many questions for you. I mean, this is the original Carrie Bradshaw herself, her alter ego that she created many, many years ago. We're gonna hear all about it. I wanna take you back because honestly, there are things that I don't even know because in the beginning of the show, I was just trying to like, get through it, you know what I mean? Like, figure out what was going on. We were filming like crazy. It was a lot. I. I didn't ask you questions that I'm like, why, why didn't we take Candace out to lunch and ask her a bunch of questions? But it was too hectic, right? So, like, for me, I have questions about how did you come to write the column for the observer in the first place?

[Candace Bushnell]

Well, you know, it's so interesting because I'm doing this one woman show called True Tales of Sex, Success and Sex and the City, which I've done. I actually just got back from doing it in Prague, the London Palladium, Budapest, Zurich, and then I'm gonna go to Copenhagen. Great. I'm gonna end up at Sony hall in on May 16th. How great. I want people to buy tickets, of course. But it's so in this show, it really answers all of those questions. So it's really the origin story of Sex and the City, how I ended up writing it, how hard I worked to get there, why I invented Carrie Bradshaw and what happened to me afterward. And I was really doing with the New York Observer, I was writing about women and relationships, sex and money, power and status in New York City all through the 80s for women's magazines.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it.

[Candace Bushnell]

And in fact, I was writing about my Samantha. Yeah, but she had different names, of course. So in, like, 1985, I think her name was Julie. And then she might have been Susan. And then she ended up being Samantha, but I kept changing her name. And she was one of those women who. She knew everything about men.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Candace Bushnell]

Somehow she just knew everything.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay.

[Candace Bushnell]

And then I was writing for the New York observer, and they asked me if I wanted to have my own column. So obviously I said yes. And it was Sex and the City. It had one foot in sex, one foot in society, and it was really pretty much the same as what I'd been writing in the 80s. It was about women and, you know, dating and mating rituals in New York City, which are very heightened because everybody's. Everybody who comes here is really ambitious, and they really want to make it. And so it adds another layer.

[Kristen Davis]

So all the alphas.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes, exactly. All the alphas. And. But the difference was that it was in a publication that a lot of men read. So I think the audience for the New York observer was, like, 65 or 70% men. Wow. So that made people feel like, oh, it's much more important because it's in a publication that men are reading. And, you know, as we all know, if men are doing something, it's very important.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Candace Bushnell]

And if women are doing it.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my gosh.

[Candace Bushnell]

How crazy.

[Kristen Davis]

So this was a big deal for you? Yes, in general.

[Candace Bushnell]

In fact, when I got the column, I remember that moment, and it was probably maybe it was the end of October of 1994, and it was a warm day, and I, like, ran up Park Avenue thinking, this is my big break. This is my big break. Because I'd been writing for 15 years, since I was 19.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my gosh.

[Candace Bushnell]

And I just felt like this was gonna be my big break. And it was. And it was. And I remember all of the doormen were like, good afternoon, miss. You know, things were somehow radiating off of this happy energy.

[Kristen Davis]

Now, when this is a hard question, is there any part of you at that point who could have foreseen what was to come?

[Candace Bushnell]

Absolutely. 100%. No. No. I mean, I don't think anybody could have foreseen it.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. No, me neither.

[Candace Bushnell]

And, you know, what I do know is people started reading the column right away because it was, you know, it was about people who everybody knew.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. So that was another question that.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it. So if you wrote something and, like. And you would change the names.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes, I would change the names. But I went out pretty much every single night with my Notebook. And I had these notebooks. They were this big and they were little spiral notebooks. And they could. Back then they could fit in your handbag. Wow. So I.

[Kristen Davis]

And you take notes. Actual notes.

[Candace Bushnell]

I took actual notes. And if it was kind of uncomfortable, I would run to the bathroom and take notes.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow.

[Candace Bushnell]

So I would be in the bathroom writing things down. Like somebody said this, somebody said that. And then I would get back the next day and I would look at all of the notes and construct a story out of it.

[Kristen Davis]

That way people would then know. They'd read it and they'd. Would they know or guess?

[Candace Bushnell]

Well, they would know or they would guess. And you know, the reality is sometimes people came up to me and asked me to write about them.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow.

[Candace Bushnell]

Like the story about the 20 something.

[Kristen Davis]

Valley of the 20 something Guys. Guys.

[Candace Bushnell]

Oh, okay. That was. All right. So that was one thing. But then. And those were two real guys.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow.

[Candace Bushnell]

That I was hanging out with. And I was like, this is like, you know, the best material. But there was also one about the 25 year old girls when they go to the Hamptons. But the Hamptons was really Staten Island. Yes. Which was like.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. Because we couldn't afford the Hamptons. Yeah, exactly. When I pretend Charlotte pretends to be 27 or whatever, and then I get crabs.

[Candace Bushnell]

Exactly. Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Crazy storyline. Yes. That was real.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes. But not the part about Charlotte getting the crabs.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay, okay.

[Candace Bushnell]

But that, I mean, look, that's the kind of thing that happens. I had this whatever, crazy roommate and she went. She was always having sex and she got crabs and we shared an apartment. And guess what?

[Kristen Davis]

Did you get crabs from your roommate?

[Candace Bushnell]

I did.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, that's bad.

[Candace Bushnell]

Cause they go on the towel.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, no.

[Candace Bushnell]

Nobody tells you that.

[Kristen Davis]

No, no one does. Listen, people, this is some important information.

[Candace Bushnell]

I can't believe I just said that. That's okay. That's probably going to end up.

[Kristen Davis]

It will be definitely interesting to people. But you know what, Candace? It's okay. Because we're educating people.

[Candace Bushnell]

Exactly. Right. And this was a long time ago.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly.

[Candace Bushnell]

It wasn't.

[Kristen Davis]

Even though craps still exist, but who. I'm sure they do. So wait, go back to the real people part. Because I do get asked this a lot. Like, who was Charlotte? And in my mind, Charlotte was an amalgam of different people. But I don't know if that's right or not.

[Candace Bushnell]

Okay, so Charlotte is the one character who. I would say Darren really created that character.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it. That's what I thought.

[Candace Bushnell]

So you know, all of the other characters there Was a Miranda. There was a Samantha.

[Kristen Davis]

One specific or different people that, you.

[Candace Bushnell]

Know, they were pretty specific.

[Kristen Davis]

Cutting.

[Candace Bushnell]

Samantha was pretty specifically one friend of mine, again, who knew everything about men.

[Kristen Davis]

Uh huh.

[Candace Bushnell]

And I'm actually still friends with her.

[Kristen Davis]

How great.

[Candace Bushnell]

And then the character of Miranda was like just this really ballsy smart girl who. She wasn't a lawyer, but she was somehow like in tech before anybody was in tech. So she was like really up on things and she was just so. She always used to say to men, listen, buddy, let me splain something to you.

[Kristen Davis]

Cute and funny.

[Candace Bushnell]

She just didn't put up with any nice guff.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it. Did they know that they were the people that the characters were based on?

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay.

[Candace Bushnell]

Kind of. Wow. Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Did they come to the parties and stuff?

[Candace Bushnell]

One of them might have. Maybe the Miranda character. Yeah, she probably did.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay.

[Candace Bushnell]

She probably did.

[Kristen Davis]

I mean, I don't know if Cynthia knew that. I don't know that we. I don't think we did.

[Candace Bushnell]

And she had short dark hair.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. Interesting.

[Candace Bushnell]

And she was really, she was just like super smart, this go getter woman. And then my friend Samantha, of course, you know, the character's not really like her anymore at all, but she was really beautiful and she just knew, you know, everything about men and men were crazy about her. So I always went to her for advice, like, you know, what do you think about this? The guy said this. What does it mean?

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, yeah.

[Candace Bushnell]

So she was really. That, that's helpful. You know, that friend that you have who knows everything.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. Now let's back up to Darren a little bit. Darren, How'd you meet Darren?

[Candace Bushnell]

Well, I met Darren because I wrote a story about him for Vogue because I actually had a column in Vogue.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. Oh my God.

[Candace Bushnell]

I didn't remember this. You know, like Harry. I don't know if she ended up having a column, but. Right, she did. So I had a column in Vogue and I also wrote stories for them. I did profiles.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it.

[Candace Bushnell]

And in fact, I just came across one that I did of Hugh Grant, which I was reading it and I was like, God, this is such a great book, but he was very entertaining.

[Kristen Davis]

He is very entertaining.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes, he is. He was really interesting.

[Kristen Davis]

He's very interesting.

[Candace Bushnell]

And Darren had come to New York to do Central Park West.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, right, right, right.

[Candace Bushnell]

So Vogue wanted me to do a story on him. And I think we met in New York and then I went to LA. And also he met the real Mr. Big, Ron Galati. So then the three of us were friends.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, got it.

[Candace Bushnell]

And Ron And Darren loved each other.

[Kristen Davis]

That's funny.

[Candace Bushnell]

And we used to hang out, and in fact, we rented a house in Aspen one year.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow.

[Candace Bushnell]

So. And then I took Darren for the first time to the Hamptons, and this was probably in 1995.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my gosh.

[Candace Bushnell]

And I had just. I had just done a book deal for the columns Sex and the City to become a book. So that happened after I feel like I'd been writing it for maybe three or four months. And a publisher said, I want to make this into a book. So I told Darren, and he said, oh, I want to option it.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it. So that all happened kind of bam, bam, bam.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes. But then I don't think he actually did option it until kind of a year later. And HBO wanted to buy it. And I had meetings with hbo, and ABC wanted to buy it as well.

[Kristen Davis]

Well, that would have.

[Candace Bushnell]

And, yes, that would have been really different. And some movie companies.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, wow.

[Candace Bushnell]

I didn't take any of it seriously. You didn't? No, I was like, eh.

[Kristen Davis]

Really?

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes. I was very like, oh, I only want to write novels and win the Pulitzer Prize.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God. Adorable. So how did Darren convince you?

[Candace Bushnell]

Well, we had the same agency, icm, and HBO made an offer. And then my agent was like, you know what? I'm just gonna ask Darren again if he was serious about wanting to buy it. And he said yes. So I think he offered, like, a tiny bit more than hbo, which at the time seemed like, oh, my God, a lot of money. And also, I just loved Darren's sense of humor. And when I was interviewing him, we went to the set of. Maybe it was Melrose Place.

[Kristen Davis]

Was it in Chatsworth? You had to, like, drive far from Melrose.

[Candace Bushnell]

We had to drive far. It's like, in the desert. It was in the desert, and one of the characters was, like, buried underground.

[Kristen Davis]

In a. Oh, we did some craziness. I don't know what that was, but, yeah.

[Candace Bushnell]

Crazy.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Candace Bushnell]

And he was, like, laughing, and he was like, isn't this the funniest thing you've ever seen? And I was like, yes. And I just thought, this man has the best sense of humor.

[Kristen Davis]

I agree. Yeah. Yeah. And it hadn't really been used in his other shows.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes, exactly. And so I was just thrilled to be working with him. And then, of course, HBO and ABC still wanted it.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, wow. With Darren.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it.

[Candace Bushnell]

Which, of course, makes it even more attractive. Yeah. Yeah. You know, having a showrunner like Darren is incredible.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Candace Bushnell]

And he wanted to go with HBO because he.

[Kristen Davis]

He wanted the Freedom.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yeah. He'd done the CBS show. And, you know, I mean, I don't think any of this is a secret. I think he's talked about that. He wasn't. He wasn't thrilled with it. So he wanted.

[Kristen Davis]

And also, HBO was brand new, really, in terms of making original content. So it was kind of like a freedom, Like a free playground.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes. And it was their second show after Arless.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. And wait, Dream On. Don't forget Dream On, Arlis and Dream On.

[Candace Bushnell]

Oh, I don't remember. Dream On. Dream On.

[Kristen Davis]

Dream on was a strange show. I'm the only one who remembers it. It was a show with this guy, Brian. Ben. Ben, I believe his name is. Do you remember this? Every week there was nudity. There was female nudity every week. This is partly why we were all so nervous our first season about, what is this? And whose perspective is it from and who is it for?

[Candace Bushnell]

Well, they did. They definitely pushed those boundaries. I mean, even more than. Because, you know, Sex and the City was published in a newspaper.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Candace Bushnell]

So it was.

[Kristen Davis]

How much detail could you put in there?

[Candace Bushnell]

And also, one of the things that we decided was, we don't want it to be about plumbing. Like, we don't want it to be about actual sex. Because.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Candace Bushnell]

It's like.

[Kristen Davis]

Right, right. What are you gonna say?

[Candace Bushnell]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Everybody knows, like, yeah, have sex.

[Kristen Davis]

For sure.

[Candace Bushnell]

For sure. So it was like all of the things that went around sex. And then when it was on hbo, I mean, it could be quite specific. And also when I started rewatching it when it was on Netflix, I was like, I forgot how much sex everybody was having.

[Kristen Davis]

I'm with you. I'm with you.

[Candace Bushnell]

You know, I mean, Charlotte was having.

[Kristen Davis]

I know.

[Candace Bushnell]

So much sex. The prude. Yes, the prude.

[Kristen Davis]

What on earth. I was busy.

[Candace Bushnell]

I was really like, Samantha, I.

[Kristen Davis]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Candace Bushnell]

Get this Adults with financial literacy skills.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Have 82% more wealth than those who don't.

[Candace Bushnell]

From swimming lessons to piano classes, US.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Parents invest in so many things to.

[Candace Bushnell]

Enrich our kids lives, but are we.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Investing in their future financial success?

[Kristen Davis]

With Greenlight you can teach your kids.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing.

[Candace Bushnell]

And this investment costs less than that.

[Ryan Seacrest]

After school treat start prioritizing their financial.

[Candace Bushnell]

Education and future today with a risk.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Free [e-mail] iheart greenlight.com iheartra@ Ameca Insurance, we know it's more than just a car. It's the two door coupe that was there for your first drive, the hatchback that took you cross country and back, and the minivan that tackles the weekly carpool for the cars you couldn't live without. Trust Ameca Auto Insurance Amica Empathy is our best policy. Homes.com is the only place where you can find specialized neighborhood guides with the in depth insider info. Home shoppers want very in depth info. Want to know if there's homes for sale in the area? We've got it. How long has a home been on the market? We'll know it. Average lot size? Uh huh. Proximity to local parks. Of course. Insight into your neighbor's divorce. We're working on it. Homes.com. we've done your homework.

[Kristen Davis]

There's some certain things that I Sometimes I'm like, I need to go back and read the book. Because I remember reading your book when Darren sent me this script. So I read the script first and then I went and read the book and then I was like, whoa, the book is a lot. Right. Because it had just much more. Maybe less specifics, but more storylines. Not really Charlotte so much. But.

[Candace Bushnell]

But it was it, you know, with the column and the book. Every week was a totally different column with different characters and different people.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it, Got it.

[Candace Bushnell]

So you know that. And sometimes people read the book and they're like, it doesn't make sense. It's like, it's like, okay, yeah, because it was a little different.

[Kristen Davis]

Right, right, right, right. But it was a different time too. But like in the beginning, because remember, I don't know if you remember, we did the whole. We did the pilot, then we had to wait kind of a long time in my mind. Right, right.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Get picked up, which was bizarre, but whatever. And then we got picked up. We did the whole first season without it airing, which was interesting. Oh yeah. It hadn't aired. Now that's kind of normal with streaming. Right. But back then it was very unusual, so.

[Candace Bushnell]

But wait, I thought we'd shot the pilot in 1997.

[Kristen Davis]

We did. And then we waited till we got picked up in 1998. Then we filmed really quick back in the olden days.

[Candace Bushnell]

What I remember was that summer and I think it started filming in the spring.

[Kristen Davis]

Yep. We would always come in the cold.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

And have to pretend like it wasn't.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. And we filmed for like all of three months or something. We did all of it really, really fast. And it came on the air fast.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

But we had. No one had seen a thing. And we were just like, like, are we funny? Are we sexy? What are we doing? Right. But when I started watching back it, I always felt like the first season was kind of a mess in terms of I'd come from, you know, Spelling was like a very much. Not a factory in a bad way, but like it was a very set medium, very structured Medium that Darren definitely changed and juiced up and made younger and exciting. But, like, there's a scene. There's a storyline in the Modelizer episode.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Was that a real storyline? That was in your column. I mean, this was something where we would call the police now. You know what I mean? Do you remember this guy is filming the models from the magazine ad?

[Candace Bushnell]

Yeah, that's real now.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay, so get to. How did you know about this? How did this happen?

[Candace Bushnell]

I. Well, first of all, the monolizer story is real. And in the first season, they took a lot of stuff. A lot of the stories from the book.

[Kristen Davis]

That's what I thought.

[Candace Bushnell]

You know, they get changed around. And even in the first. Actually, the first two seasons, a lot comes from the book, which I recognize because I know kind of where everything came from. But, you know, it was just going out and doing research and getting people to tell me stories, so. People love to tell you their stories. I don't know if this happens to you where people come up to you and they're like, it does.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, because of the show.

[Candace Bushnell]

Kristen, let me tell you about this thing that happened to me. And you're like, okay, right, right, right.

[Kristen Davis]

But like, someone told you. Did someone tell you I do this. Did the person himself who was filming these models secretly tell you this? Or did you just hear about.

[Candace Bushnell]

Probably.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it.

[Candace Bushnell]

But also, filming people while you're having sex with them is not a new thing.

[Kristen Davis]

I know it used to be, like, without consent.

[Candace Bushnell]

It's bad. Yes, it is. It is bad. But, you know, I remember when I first came to New York, people were doing that in, like, 19. Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Like, with a big camcorder.

[Candace Bushnell]

No, they had, like, hidden cameras. Hidden cameras in their apartments. I mean, look, these are really, really rich men, which we know they don't always follow.

[Kristen Davis]

I understand the law. Right.

[Candace Bushnell]

So. So that wasn't really a totally new thing, but yes, that was. There was a guy who was filming his encounters with, you know, with models. God.

[Kristen Davis]

Cause the thing that's interesting, when I look back on it, I hadn't remembered that at all. There's so much that I don't remember about the first season. And Carrie, you know, she goes over there and he's like, you've gotta see my masterwork, my work of art. And he gets all. Has all those old TVs. It's very creative. And then the different models, you know, show up, and he's having sex with him. And, you know, she lights a cigarette. Like, she's very unjudgmental. You know, there's not judgment or horror.

[Candace Bushnell]

Well, it was a different time also.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Candace Bushnell]

I mean, we, you know, there are a lot of things that.

[Kristen Davis]

You know.

[Candace Bushnell]

Women just kind of sucked it up back then. It's true. I mean, not literally, but, you know.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Candace Bushnell]

I mean, it's. And things have changed so much, and it actually makes me really, really happy. And it is partly because of Sex and the City. Because Sex and the City, you know, it has made women so much more aware and emboldened. And emboldened and given them a new way to look at their lives. And, you know, now when I, you know, I talk to young women, I'm still covering dating for whatever reason.

[Kristen Davis]

I love it, which is.

[Candace Bushnell]

It's great. It's not so great right now for anybody, for sure.

[Kristen Davis]

Dating's hard, but I'm glad that you're covering it. Yes, that's helpful.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes. But, you know, women have just. They've just changed their attitude so much. And now I hear a lot of women saying, you know, we don't even think heterosexual relationships are so good for us anymore. Which is something that you would never have heard in the mid-90s. There was no woman who would ever say, you know, I question the validity of the heterosexual relationship and being secondary to a man. It was kind of a given. And now women, really, they don't accept that.

[Kristen Davis]

I think that's amazing.

[Candace Bushnell]

I think it's great. And I think it's amazing.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow. So it's so great, because this is one of the reasons I wanted to do the podcast, is because I feel like the storylines and the writing and the subject matter is still so relatable. And some things have changed, but some things haven't. And being able to look at those things, you would think more things would have changed. And some haven't changed at all. And then some, like, what we're talking about in terms of women have changed where. And I think some of it is because we pulled the lid off just talking about it. Like, just talking about it is so powerful.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes, it is.

[Kristen Davis]

Because if you're not talking about it or feeling free to talk about it, how are we ever going to figure stuff out? How are we ever going to know all the things that are going on or all the choices that you have or what it might be like to make these choices or make these choices? You know what I'm saying?

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes, absolutely.

[Kristen Davis]

Important.

[Candace Bushnell]

Absolutely.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay, so let's get back to the real people for a second, because I get a lot of questions about this. I'm sure you do, too. So there was a real Miranda, obviously a real Mr. Big and a real Samantha, and then not a real me, which I kind of knew because no one knew what to do with me in the beginning, which is totally fine. And Michael Patrick says that when he came on, too, he was like, I don't know how to write for that one. And then Jenny Biggs came, who grew up on the Upper east side, and she did know how to write for me. So that helped kind of give me something more like a through line that made sense, I guess. And also, I mean, that's how it often is when a TV show starts. You know, you don't really know.

[Candace Bushnell]

Right, exactly.

[Kristen Davis]

So as you were watching the show develop, what were your thoughts on how Darren and company were writing?

[Candace Bushnell]

You know, honestly, I always loved it. Oh, good. I always thought the show was, first of all, funny. Yes. And, you know, the column is funny. And, you know, the humor is something that, for me, it's, like, unavoidable. I want to try to write seriously, but there's always this sort of deep humor that comes across, and that really came across in this series. And also, you know, it was a time, like in the 90s when women were a little bit badass. You know, it was like, you know, we rule this town, and we don't have to put up with, you know, what men say, because we're, you know, we have each other's backs, and we're a little group, and there's power in this friendship. And the friendship part is so real and so important in New York City because that is a real thing in this city where there are actually more women than men.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Candace Bushnell]

And it's like, if you don't have female friends here, you're gonna have a very hard time surviving. Right.

[Kristen Davis]

And I do think that is what really has resonated over time with the show.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

And thank God, you know, and I know there were different people who felt different ways at different times of the long trajectory of Sex and the City about whether people should have gotten married or should not have gotten married, et cetera. I get that. But I also feel like we've now been through so many phases, and the remaining thing is the bond.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes. Yes, I love. Yeah, exactly. And, you know. No, I always loved the show.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, good.

[Candace Bushnell]

I thought it was fantastic.

[Kristen Davis]

Good. I didn't know for sure. I didn't know for sure.

[Candace Bushnell]

I always knew.

[Kristen Davis]

I didn't know. I didn't know if it was weird, like when you. So this was your, you know, your kind of almost like, you know, research thing that you were doing for years and years and years where you're out and you're taking notes and you're studying people and, you know, these people and you're hearing stories and everything. And then all of a sudden, it gets kind of taken over here, you know, into a TV show. I didn't know if that was weird.

[Candace Bushnell]

You know, people always ask that question and, you know, for me, no.

[Kristen Davis]

Good.

[Candace Bushnell]

It was never, you know, it was never strange or. I mean, maybe there would be some things that I know. I mean, honestly, there was never anything that was strange or uncomfortable for me because I was always writing, you know, I mean, I've had, like, a lot of New York Times bestsellers.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. So you had your own writing novels.

[Candace Bushnell]

And, you know, and I had an opportunity to be on TV and, like, have my own TV show. And all of that was the VH1 thing. It was VH1. I had that. This show on VH1, which I think was like one of the first reality shows.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right.

[Kristen Davis]

Which is crazy.

[Candace Bushnell]

Which is kind of crazy. Yeah. And. And then I was. You know, then there were people who always wanted to make the real life version of Sex and the City, which was interesting. And I was like, no. Why? Because there's already a TV show. That's for sure. Amazing, right? And then I was on another reality show. And the fact is, like, I just hate that sitting around.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, there's a lot of sitting around.

[Candace Bushnell]

It's just. It's true. I was like, I couldn't. And then even when I had that show on VH1 and I had to sit in front of the mirror for two hours, oh, it's the worst. I was like, this will turn you into a narcissist. It could.

[Kristen Davis]

Well, I think it can do numerous things. Right. It can turn you into narcissist. It can also exacerbate all of your insecurities that you ever had in your life. Right, Exactly. And maybe those are the two same things. I don't know. But it is rough to have to do that.

[Candace Bushnell]

I was like, I can't. I can't do it.

[Kristen Davis]

It is rough.

[Candace Bushnell]

I can't do it. I can't. I can't look in my face for two hours.

[Kristen Davis]

It's hard. It's really, really hard. It's really, really hard. When you are ready to take a drive, you think about the direction you are headed and how long it takes you to get there. You rarely think about bumpy roads, motorcyclists weaving through traffic. Sluggish trucks, drivers speeding through red lights, and pedestrians crossing at the wrong moment. The truth is, the road can feel unpredictable and sometimes scary. But it doesn't have to be that way. Hyundai's available advanced safety technology is designed to help keep you protected against the many challenges the road throws your way. From Forward collision avoidance Assistant to Blind Spot View Monitor, our vehicles offer available features designed to help safeguard you and your loved ones. You can change lanes with much more confidence thanks to the available Blind Spot view monitor, which actually shows you a live video feed of your blind spots. The standard forward collision avoidance assist can help prevent or mitigate accidents by alerting you of an imminent collision and automatically applying the brakes if you don't. Hyundai vehicles are equipped with a standard driver attention warning system which constantly monitors your attention levels. Once detected, it sounds alerts and visual cues to help bring your focus back on the road. With available class exclusive safety features, Hyundai lets you enjoy the journey with confidence, knowing that your car is working hard to help avoid the dangers of the road from getting to you. Learn more about hyundai@hyundai USA.com Call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Every day our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then there are moments that remind us to be more human.

[Kristen Davis]

Thank you for calling Ameca Insurance.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, I was just in an accident. Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of. At Ameca, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking.

[Candace Bushnell]

It's human.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Emeca empathy is our best policy.

[Candace Bushnell]

Unluck.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We got one play. Everything we work for comes down to this quick question. Speaking of workouts, how would you rate your athletic program? Bro, we're in the middle of the state championship. Oh, so like a B then. Dude, get out of our huddle. Well, at homes.com we leave it all on the field to get you detailed information on local schools. Off the field.

[Kristen Davis]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Kristen Davis]

How'd he even get in here? Holmes.com Bingo.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We've done your homework.

[Candace Bushnell]

Get this. Adults with financial literacy skills have 82%.

[Ryan Seacrest]

More wealth than those who don't.

[Candace Bushnell]

From swimming lessons to piano classes, us.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Parents invest in so many things to.

[Candace Bushnell]

Enrich our kids lives.

[Ryan Seacrest]

But are we investing in their future financial success?

[Kristen Davis]

With Greenlight, you can teach your kids.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing.

[Candace Bushnell]

And this investment costs less than that.

[Ryan Seacrest]

After school treat start prioritizing their financial.

[Candace Bushnell]

Education and future today with a risk.

[Kristen Davis]

Free [e-mail] iheart greenlight.com iheartra hey, it's.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Refresh your spring personal care items and earn four times points on all your favorites when you shop in store or online.

[Kristen Davis]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Kristen Davis]

So, wait, let's go back for a second. Okay. So Darren's got the show, and it's getting, you know, first we were small, as you remember, and then, you know, it grew and grew and grew. You're over still doing your writing, doing different things. You've got different things going on. So you weren't, like, focused on the show necessarily?

[Candace Bushnell]

No.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay.

[Candace Bushnell]

I mean, in fact. Well, they used to send me the.

[Kristen Davis]

DVDs or the VHS before that, probably.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yeah, they were VHS. They would send them to me on Wednesday.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Candace Bushnell]

And, you know, I would watch it like, I hope it's gonna be good. And then I always thought it was great.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay, good.

[Candace Bushnell]

And then people would watch it on Sunday night. Yep. And be really excited about it. And I just thought, you know, I had a book that was turned into a TV show, so. And I mean, it was really like, the first two seasons, I wasn't, you know, I guess it was a hit, but it wasn't.

[Kristen Davis]

It wasn't a big hit till third.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

When we got nominated for the Emmy, that's when I felt myself like. What?

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes. I mean, it was like after the second season that it felt like it really took off. And in fact, I actually thought it was gonna be over when Mr. Big dumps Carrie and marries somebody else, because that happened in my real life.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, did it?

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

I don't. I really. There was a time when walking around New York, people would be like, the real Mr. Big did this. And the real. And I'd just be like, I can't deal with that because we have to deal with our fictional selves. Right, Right, Exactly. So there's a time that I tuned it out, so I didn't really. How it played out for you personally.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes. So that happened in real life. And that's. And I thought, oh, that will be like. That. That'll be the end. The end.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it.

[Candace Bushnell]

You know, it's like it's told the Whole story of Carrie and Mr. Big and he, you know, ends up marrying somebody else, which is like such a New York story.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Candace Bushnell]

And. And so I really thought that will be. That's the end of this series.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it.

[Candace Bushnell]

And then it kept going, and it's still going. I mean, which is really incredible, isn't it?

[Kristen Davis]

Incredible. I agree that it's incredible. I mean, we're so lucky to be able to keep going with these characters, I think. And we're so lucky to have the writing that we've always had and to have the characters that you started, because nothing would happen without that. You know, like, characters and writing is the whole. It's the whole thing. I mean, people talk about actors, and I understand actors are what you're looking at, but if you don't have the material, it's not gonna succeed. You know, there's almost nothing you can do to make it succeed. You can be super charismatic and it's still not gonna work. You know what I mean?

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes. I mean, I do always say it like it kind of. It has to be on the page. If it's not on the page, it's not gonna work on the screen.

[Kristen Davis]

I agree. I mean, it might work for a second, you know what I'm saying? But it won't work over time. So. So in. In the real life, when. So Mr. Big, previous to him marrying someone else on the show, which I didn't really. I wasn't aware of the parallels still happening with life. Were you happy with how they developed Mr. Big and Carrie? How did you feel about that? Because it's very interesting to look back.

[Candace Bushnell]

On it, I think, you know, it is. And at the time, I. You know what? I didn't think about it that much. It seemed natural to me. And, you know, but now with all this social media, a lot of people question it. And, you know, I mean. I mean, in. You know, in real life, you know, the real Mr. Big was. He was a. You know, he was a great guy, but he was also a very powerful man. And, you know, powerful men in New York City at that time were really a specific breed. You know, they threw things, they threw phones, they threw this, they threw that.

[Kristen Davis]

So in some ways, Mr. Big was even softer than the real. Cause I don't remember him throwing a phone.

[Candace Bushnell]

No, he didn't throw a phone. But in real life, I think the real Mr. Big had thrown a phone, and it ended up in Page Six.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow.

[Candace Bushnell]

Of course.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow.

[Candace Bushnell]

Wow, wow, wow. But he was actually a great guy. And I was really in Love with him, but it just. We were in just totally different places. Like, he was winding down. He actually left New York.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Candace Bushnell]

I heard. And went and lives and still lives in Vermont.

[Kristen Davis]

I heard.

[Candace Bushnell]

And now when I look at his life, I'm like, why didn't I go for that? I could have been living on a farm in New Hampshire.

[Kristen Davis]

Would you like that, Candace?

[Candace Bushnell]

Well, now I think I would.

[Kristen Davis]

Interesting.

[Candace Bushnell]

Okay. Now that I'm, like, old, I'm like, I could do that.

[Kristen Davis]

That is so interesting. Oh, how we.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes, but I don't know if that's really true.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Okay.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. But it's an interesting fantasy. It's an interesting fantasy.

[Candace Bushnell]

It's a great.

[Kristen Davis]

Well, I had heard that about him, which I did think was also super interesting.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes. And also when I looked back on the book, I realized he was looking for a very serious relationship. He wanted to get married, and I was so not there. Got it. I mean, he was saying things like, oh, we should have a baby.

[Kristen Davis]

And I was like, no way.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

That's interesting. So we didn't put that in. We don't have that.

[Candace Bushnell]

No.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Wow.

[Kristen Davis]

Very fascinating.

[Candace Bushnell]

So that, you know. So that, you know. So in the. I mean, it followed a trajectory, but I feel like in the first two seasons, it was pretty. It was pretty realistic.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. Okay, good.

[Candace Bushnell]

That's good to know.

[Kristen Davis]

I wonder what I'm watching, you know?

[Candace Bushnell]

You know the way Carrie was, like, even when she goes to the church to see his mother.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Candace Bushnell]

It's like, you know, that was the kind of stuff that we did back then.

[Kristen Davis]

Right? I know. It's kind of adorable.

[Candace Bushnell]

I mean, it's.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Candace Bushnell]

It's now when I look back on it, it's like, I don't even know how we did that, but, I mean, there was, like, a guy I was in love with when I was 20 years old, and I used to go and sit on a park bench in front of his building and wait for him to come home. I mean, come on.

[Kristen Davis]

Cute and funny. Oh, God.

[Candace Bushnell]

Like, nobody would ever do that.

[Kristen Davis]

Well, no, we wouldn't have to. We would stalk them on Instagram or TikTok or whatever.

[Candace Bushnell]

Exactly.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right.

[Candace Bushnell]

Exactly.

[Kristen Davis]

But you'd have to go in person.

[Candace Bushnell]

It's like, you know, it's like.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Candace Bushnell]

I mean, so I get it, because I feel like I was, you know, it's that girl.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Candace Bushnell]

I was like, I'm gonna get this guy. I'm gonna show up, and he's gonna fall in love with me. Well, nowadays it's like, that will not Work, but it won't. No. That's what these experts on TikTok say. The men. Really?

[Kristen Davis]

The men.

[Candace Bushnell]

The men.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. What do the men say?

[Candace Bushnell]

They say things like, don't approach a guy in a bar.

[Kristen Davis]

What?

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes. Because it's such odd behavior that the man will immediately think that you are, you know, unhinged.

[Kristen Davis]

This is bizarre, is it not?

[Candace Bushnell]

This is bizarre.

[Kristen Davis]

I mean, this is another change that is fascinating.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Who would have seen this coming?

[Candace Bushnell]

Never. Because I remember we used to go up to men in bars all the time.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. And I thought that was a good thing.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes, it was.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. Weird. See, that's a weird and interesting thing, too, because, like, in some ways, we're talking about women who are, I don't know, older, questioning, you know, the validity of a heterosexual relationship. Then, on the other hand, we have men on TikTok saying, don't approach a man in bar because they might think you're crazy. Like, it's a very weird dichotomy going on.

[Candace Bushnell]

It is.

[Kristen Davis]

It's wacky.

[Candace Bushnell]

It is. There's been a lot of. It feels like there's a lot of separation between the sexes, which is sad. Yes. In a way that there wasn't before. And I also see a lot of women on these dating reality shows. If the guy voted Republican, they ain't ending up with him.

[Kristen Davis]

They're like, no, I don't watch any of those shows because I find them depressing. But anyone who might be on those shows, listen to Candace because she knows what she's saying. Okay, I know nothing about that. Now, let me get back on track of. I have literally so many questions for you, and then we have to think about the actual episode. Right?

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

But this is so cool. So let's just go back to where we were in terms of the show and third season when it hit big. Right. When we got nominated for the Emmy, which we never believed would happen. I remember Darren and I used to make jokes first and second season about how maybe one day we would get nominated for a Cable Ace Award, something that they got rid of real quick. Do you remember? Because cable became, like, the prestige, you know, content provider. Right. And then suddenly one morning, we get the call that we have been nominated for an Emmy. It was insane.

[Candace Bushnell]

See, it didn't seem strange to me. No, no. Because I was like, the show's brilliant. I always thought the show was brilliant. I did. Got it.

[Kristen Davis]

That's good. Good for you.

[Candace Bushnell]

So I thought it seemed. Yeah, it seemed very normal. But you know what? I wasn't I wasn't right. You didn't come from the TV world. You didn't come from the TV world. So for me, it was like, oh, of course he got nominated, got it for an Emmy. But I remember I was staying at Darren's house during the Emmys, and he was like, oh, we got nominated. You know, you're gonna go. I didn't get to go. I had to sit in the HBO room.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Candace Bushnell]

And. And then I could go to the parties afterward, but they're the best part. But, yeah, it was, like. It was really exciting.

[Kristen Davis]

It was exciting. I mean, it was exciting for us because I don't think that we thought that it would ever happen. Right. And I think that we thought that it was fine. I think that we thought we would be like a little cult hit, you know, like Larry Sanders, Right? Like that type of, like, beloved in the industry, maybe, but not widespread. And then, you know, the fact that people cared and were so invested was just so amazing.

[Candace Bushnell]

Really invested. And I remember at the New York observer, them saying to me, I guess it was like, maybe it was like when the third season started, them saying, like, okay, you know what? Now Sex and the City has made being single really, really cool.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow.

[Candace Bushnell]

Being single in your 30s and everybody's watching it. And I was like, wow, that's great.

[Kristen Davis]

It is great. And I mean, wish it were still true. Cause I still feel like people just have this desire to couple everybody up, you know? Don't you feel? I mean, even though I think women maybe have more choices, I think, like, society at large is always like, why are you single? Why are you single? Why are you single?

[Candace Bushnell]

Well, you know, now there are more and more single women, which is great. I think it's like 51% of the population.

[Kristen Davis]

No way.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes. 51% of women over 18 are single.

[Kristen Davis]

That's amazing.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

That's crazy.

[Candace Bushnell]

And it used to be 43% in, like, 2012.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow.

[Candace Bushnell]

So it's increasing. And it really is increasing amongst young women. So it's really the young women who I see on social media who are questioning, like, you know, what am I getting out of a heterosexual relationship? You know, I'm doing all this work.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Candace Bushnell]

He's kind of disrespectful. He's cheating on me.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, no.

[Candace Bushnell]

And he's not treating me the way that I want to be treated. And I'm super stressed, and I just don't.

[Kristen Davis]

I think that's amazing. So I wish I had asked those questions in my twenties, for goodness sake.

[Candace Bushnell]

I know, but we couldn't. No, no. We had to toe the line of, you know, a relationship with so much weirdness.

[Kristen Davis]

I mean, I don't even know if I thought it was gonna save me. I just felt like I was supposed to do that. You know what I mean? And I just also, like, when I look back at the shows from first season, Mr. Big is so aloof to Gary. And she is so adorable and trying so hard and trying different things. Do you know what I mean? And she's kind of trying to hide herself. And then at one episode she talks about, like, I don't even show him my real self.

[Candace Bushnell]

Exactly.

[Kristen Davis]

It's such a great, great episode because, you know, she's amazing. Of course she should show him her real self. She's unbelievable. Right. And obviously that is also just maturity. It's a conversation you have with yourself at a certain point of like, if I'm actually going to be with someone, I need to actually be my authentic self, obviously. But it was so great because. And he, he would do that thing where she would try to get him to talk, like for like the whole beginning of the first season, and he would evade, evade, evade. But then his actions, like, he'd. She says, I want to stand alone with you. You know, stand still with you in the city of 7 million people or whatever it was back then. And he's like, oh, you're in the back and I'm in the front of the park. He complains and complains, but then he stands still with her under the moonlight. Do you remember this? Like, his actions kind of give her what she wants, Give her some hope. Yeah.

[Candace Bushnell]

I think today it would be called breadcrumbing.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, breadcrumbing. Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Candace Bushnell]

Where he gives her.

[Kristen Davis]

You are so right.

[Candace Bushnell]

These little bits, I mean, I think like in today's dating landscape, if you look at their relationship in those first couple of seasons, you know, I, like, I understand. It's hard to look at that relationship through today's lens because he is so aloof and he is so non committal.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Candace Bushnell]

And she is trying to turn herself into whatever she thinks the man wants.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Candace Bushnell]

Which is what women did back then. Women were told to turn yourself into what the guy wants.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Candace Bushnell]

And that's how you will get him. And, you know, there are still some women out there on social media who are saying just, you know, like, become what he wants. I mean, that's how you get him.

[Kristen Davis]

Never goes away, I think, you know, And I don't even know what's happening with this trad wife situation. But like, like that, like, what is. Like, what on earth do you know what I mean? I mean, we've got some women questioning the validity of a heterosexual relationship and then we've got trad wives.

[Candace Bushnell]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Crazy.

[Candace Bushnell]

And the thing that's so interesting to me is also there's this huge interest in romance, like romance novels. And now it's romantasy. It's basically a romance with a something out of a fantasy.

[Kristen Davis]

Like a dragon.

[Candace Bushnell]

Like a dragon.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. Yes, okay, okay.

[Candace Bushnell]

Exactly.

[Kristen Davis]

Game of Thrones. Thank you very much for that.

[Candace Bushnell]

You know, then at the same time we have. There is a real movement also of women saying, you know, I'm not going to do what society is telling women to do. But at the same time, like, the romance is bigger than ever. So it's really this dichotomy.

[Kristen Davis]

It's very fascinating and strange. I wonder what's gonna happen. We never know.

[Candace Bushnell]

Don't ask me.

[Kristen Davis]

I know.

[Candace Bushnell]

Gloom and doom.

[Kristen Davis]

I'm like, no, don't gloom and doom. No, no, don't gloom and doom. I mean, the end might be coming, but let's not think about it if it is.

[Candace Bushnell]

Exactly.

[Kristen Davis]

So, Candice, thank you for being with us this whole week. Two episodes of Candice Bush now. Yay.

[Candace Bushnell]

That's fantastic.

[Kristen Davis]

Candice has been so great to take us back to the beginning of the show and also to remind us that she has written and is performing a one woman show also about writing the column and the book that became Sex and the City. And it is called True Tales of Sex Success and Sex and the City, the tour. And she's been all around the world with this tour. Congratulations.

[Candace Bushnell]

Thank you.

[Kristen Davis]

It's amazing. Thank you. And it's coming to New York in the spring. Yes.

[Candace Bushnell]

We'll be at Sony hall on May 16th.

[Kristen Davis]

Awesome. That's amazing. And congratulations on all of your so many New York Times bestsellers and everything that you do.

[Candace Bushnell]

Oh, thank you.

[Kristen Davis]

You're welcome.

[Candace Bushnell]

This podcast is supported by BetterHelp, offering licensed therapists you can connect with via.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Video phone or chat.

[Candace Bushnell]

Here's BetterHelp, head of clinical operations, Hesu Jo discussing who can benefit from therapy.

[Kristen Davis]

I think a lot of people think that you're supposed to be going to therapy once you're like having panic attacks every day. But. But before you get to that point, I think once you start even noticing that you feel a little bit off and you can't maintain this harmony that you once had in relationships, that could be a sign that maybe you want to Go talk to somebody. There's always a benefit in talking to someone because we can all benefit from improved insight about ourselves and who we are and how we behave with other people. So if you're human, that's like a good indicator that you could benefit from talking to somebody.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Find out if therapy is right for you.

[Candace Bushnell]

Visit betterhelp.com today. That's betterhelp.com hello, darlings. Pack your suitcase for a new season of the Hulu original reality series Vanderpump Villa.

[Kristen Davis]

Let's do this.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Ciao.

[Kristen Davis]

It's Stassi. Of course. Lisa brought in her favorite to be resident chaperone of the castle.

[Candace Bushnell]

Stassi is an icon. She's my icon.

[Kristen Davis]

I love this.

[Candace Bushnell]

Get ready for the luxury and drama that awaits us in Italy. Cheers to all the toxic couples in the castle.

[Kristen Davis]

Season 2 of Vanderpump Villa is now streaming on Hulu.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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