Inside The Playboy Mansion with Holly Madison...

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Are You A Charlotte?"

Episode: Inside The Playboy Mansion with Holly Madison

Host: Kristin Davis
Guest: Holly Madison
Release Date: February 13, 2026

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Overview of the Episode

In this intimate episode, Kristin Davis welcomes Holly Madison—former Playboy Mansion resident, television personality (notably from Girls Next Door), and bestselling author—for a candid discussion about the surreal intersection between Sex and the City and Playboy culture. The conversation explores the filming of the iconic LA episode at the Playboy Mansion, the reality versus fantasy of life there, evolving attitudes toward female sexuality, and the complexities of empowerment, exploitation, and pop culture myth-making.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Surreal Experience of Filming at the Playboy Mansion

• Kristin Davis, who played Charlotte, describes the Mansion as “very surreal, very strange” and reflects on internal conflict regarding glamorizing Playboy for television.
• Holly Madison reveals she hadn’t moved in yet when the episode filmed but was a dedicated viewer of both Sex and the City and Girls Next Door:
  • “I’m so bummed I missed out... I just missed Sex and the City, which is such a bummer because I’m such a big fan.” (03:21)

2. Playboy’s Mainstream Moment & Party Culture

• Holly discusses how Playboy parties in the early 2000s were “the cool parties in LA,” hard to get into and bucket-list events for many:
  • “It’s hard to believe, but those were like the cool parties in LA that you wanted to go to... When I got invited to my first one, I was so excited.” (04:45)
• Details on how guests were invited and which events were the biggest (Midsummer Night’s Dream, Fourth of July, etc.).
• Behind the scenes, parties were both intimate ("less than 50 people") and at times sprawling, depending on the event.
  • “Fun in the sun pool parties... were pretty intimate” but “the 4th of July party... went from day to night; that’s kind of the one that most resembled what you did on the show.” (06:07)

3. Daily Life at the Mansion vs. Public Perception

• Routine described as oddly structured and monitored, with set curfews, weekly club outings, restaurant nights, and movie viewings:
  • “We had like a famous nine o’clock curfew. And then there would be different activities every night...” (07:26)
• Contrasts the quiet, almost office-like daytime ambiance with wild party nights.

4. The Reality & Struggle of Being a Girlfriend

• Holly shares that initially, Hef had “seven girlfriends,” leading to a competitive and inhospitable atmosphere:
  • “That was just a nightmare. Nobody got along. It was a constant revolving door... all really competitive.” (09:15)
• Later years were calmer, with just three main girlfriends featured on Girls Next Door.

5. Weird Details, Haunted Vibes & the Sex Room

• Both recall uncomfortable aspects of the Mansion’s interior:
  • Kristin: “We were scared... it had a carpeted mattress floor and mirrored walls... if you turned on a light, the mirror would disappear and it would be like sex statues...” (11:00)
• Ongoing rumors of the house being haunted and the “energy” feeling dark.
  • “A lot of people thought that house was haunted, too.” (11:35)

6. Party Behavior, Gender Dynamics & Safety

• Kristen’s trepidation about portraying Mansion parties as purely fun or liberating.
• Holly explains party-goers "behaved" around Hef because “everybody wanted to stay on the list... more on their best behavior in front of him”:
  • “I always say at the parties, I never saw anything too wild... people would be more on their best behavior in front of him...” (12:19)

7. Public Narratives vs. Personal Experience

• Both reflect on the messaging about female empowerment tied to Playboy—contrasting the 1990s/early 2000s mainstream embrace with shifting cultural perspectives.
  • Kristin: “I felt at the time, you know, it was very much held up as being empowering for women in some way. But I feel like we don’t think of it that way now. That way, correct.” (20:56)
  • Holly: “That was what I bought into as well... but I was just in the deepest, deepest, like, inner ring where it really wasn’t liberating anymore.” (20:56)
• Both express complicated feelings about whether the show contributed to glamorizing a myth.
  • “I do feel just some mixed feelings about the fact that our show…was supposed to be empowering… but later on…maybe I was wrong.” (31:13)

8. Sexuality, Consent, and Cultural Messaging

• Candid discussion about the ambiguity and lack of transparency for women entering the world of Playboy.
  • Holly: “People think you should have known what you were getting into…but there’s nothing like a contract…it’s something you get into little by little and kind of lose yourself.” (22:28)
• Both women reflect on how sex positivity for women often omits emotional nuance or the realities of power dynamics:
  • “Women should just be able to have sex like a man and not care, and that’s empowerment…but nobody talks about the emotional impact of sex.” (39:15)

9. Impact on Future Generations

• As mothers of daughters, both wrestle with how to guide the next generation through sexual empowerment, consent, and societal expectations:
  • “My daughter…still have sex ed classes that are about, like, consent and really important interesting things…But it’s so, so hard to navigate, 100 percent.” (40:55)
  • “I think the more discussion, the better, honestly.” (40:59)

10. Holly’s Perspective on the Show and Her Role

• Holly affirms that the Sex and the City episode’s portrayal of the Mansion was accurate from an outsider’s perspective and didn’t trigger negative feelings.
  • “Because it more captures the era where I still, like, only knew Playboy from the outside and was kind of fascinated by it.” (42:29)
• Pop culture accuracy: Holly praises the show’s costuming and set design for its authenticity.
  • “The casting was so spot-on…some of [the extras] were Playmates, some of them weren’t…but the actor you talk to... looks like one of Hef’s buddies.” (24:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the party invite mystique:
  “When I got invited to my first [Playboy] party, I was so excited. It was just such like a bucket list thing.”
  – Holly Madison (05:11)

• On the reality of being a girlfriend:
  “It was just a mess…nobody got along. It was a constant revolving door.”
  – Holly Madison (09:15)

• On the Mansion’s strange vibe:
  “It definitely had a lot of, like, kind of dark energy, I would say. I mean, it’s kind of a dark house as well.”
  – Kristin Davis (11:39)

• On consent and ambiguity in the Mansion:
  “People are picturing that scene in Fifty Shades of Grey…there’s nothing like that up there. It’s something you can get into little by little and kind of lose yourself.”
  – Holly Madison (22:28)

• On empowerment and regret:
  “I’ve heard people…grew up watching Girls Next Door and thought it was so fun, so they thought the next best thing to get into would be porn. And now they regret it. So it’s crazy the effect those things can have.”
  – Holly Madison (32:32)

• On the evolution of empowerment:
  “It’s so hard to know when it crosses the line into not being empowering. It’s a very interesting, interesting thing, I think.”
  – Kristin Davis (38:15)

• On the importance of open discussion for young women:
  “The more discussion, the better, honestly…when I was young…the way it was portrayed…was like, women should just be able to have sex like a man and not care…and I feel like nobody talks about the emotional impact of sex.”
  – Holly Madison (39:15 & 40:59)

• On which character Holly identifies with now:
  “Back in the day…for sure a Charlotte…But as time goes on, I think I’m more of a Carrie. I’ve written a couple memoirs, so I identify as a writer. And all the anxious, attachment style, cringe stuff that Carrie does has totally been me.”
  – Holly Madison (44:20)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:27: Kristin welcomes Holly Madison and sets up the Playboy Mansion episode discussion
• 04:43: The mainstreaming of Playboy parties and how Holly first attended
• 07:26: Holly describes daily life and curfews at the Mansion
• 10:42: Description of the infamous "game room" and the Mansion’s peculiar decor
• 12:19: Discussion of what actually happened at parties and how people behaved around Hef
• 20:56: Kristin and Holly reflect on the changing attitudes towards Playboy and empowerment
• 22:28: Holly explains the ambiguous, “slippery slope” reality of being a girlfriend in the Mansion
• 31:13: Mixed feelings about contributing to glamorizing Playboy via Sex and the City
• 39:15: Deep dive into how pop culture has represented female sexuality and emotional impacts
• 44:20: Holly identifies as more of a “Carrie” than “Charlotte” these days

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode is marked by honesty, nostalgia, and mature reflection. Both Kristin and Holly approach these personal, sometimes dark realities with warmth, humor, and mutual respect. They acknowledge the complicated legacies of both Sex and the City and Playboy, and the enduring importance of frank conversations about sexuality, agency, and media portrayal.

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For Listeners New to the Episode

• This conversation goes far beyond behind-the-scenes gossip, instead offering a nuanced look at cultural change, personal evolution, and the ways in which media and lived realities collide.
• Holly Madison’s candor about her time at the Mansion—and the long-term emotional fallout—gives rare insight into a glamorized world, while Kristin Davis’s openness about her mixed feelings will resonate with anyone struggling to reconcile ideals with reality.
• The episode is filled with fascinating, sometimes surprising details about Hollywood, the nature of empowerment, and what it means to reflect authentically on the past.

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Transcript

[Kristen Davis]

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[Holly Madison]

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[Kristen Davis]

Hi, I'm Kristen Davis and I want to know are you a Charlotte? Hi everybody, welcome to Are you a Charlotte? Today we have the lovely Holly Madison who is going to talk to us about the LA episode where we film at the Playboy Mansion. She has obviously a lot of insight and she's a television Personality. You may know her from Girls Next Door, and she's also a New York Times bestselling author, which I love, and she has a lot of fascinating things to say. So enjoy this conversation with Holly Madison. Okay. This is very exciting. I'm so excited to talk to you. We've never talked before. I didn't get to meet you back in the day. But also, from what I understand, when we filmed Sex and City at the Playboy Mansion, you had not moved out yet. Is that correct?

[Holly Madison]

No. And I'm so bummed I missed out on. I got the opportunity to be do cameos on some pretty iconic shows there, like we did Entourage and Curb youb Enthusiasm. But I. Wow. Just missed Sex in the City, which is such a bummer because I'm such a big fan of it. Like, watch that every week when I was at the Mansion.

[Kristen Davis]

And you did.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, we did. Hef was a huge fan of it. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

It's so strange because the whole experience for me and for. For us in general was very surreal. Very strange. Half was very nice to us. Like, really sweet and very, like, almost like your uncle or something, you know, Like. Like, it was hard to believe that he was him.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's how he comes off to most people. I mean, that's the person that I fell in love with. Obviously my situation grew a lot more complicated, but, you know.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, it's interesting because, like, I also feel. And I personally had, like, such conflict, internal conflict about filming there and making it seem kind of like fun and light, I guess would be the word, which is not. It's not like the vibe that I personally had about. About Playboy, though. At that point in time, things were getting like you guys were very mainstream, you know.

[Holly Madison]

Oh, yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

Did you feel that?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. I mean, that episode came out in 2000 and have had been like, you know, he got. Got separated from his wife a few years earlier and started having the parties at the Mansion again. And those were. You know, I always tell people, like, it's hard to believe, but those were like the cool parties in LA that you wanted to go to that were super hard to get into. And when I got invited to my first one, I was so excited. It was just such like a bucket list thing.

[Kristen Davis]

And how did you get invited?

[Holly Madison]

I was working for Hawaiian Tropic, and at one of the events, Hef's doctor came to the event and he said, I want to invite all these girls to the party. So I'm super excited. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

And was this one of the, like, pajama parties?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. The first party I went to was their biggest party. It was called Midsummer Night's Dream. They had that every August. And it was kind of this, like, fairy themed, like twinkle lights wonderland that they turned the backyard into.

[Kristen Davis]

And it was really cool. And when we filmed there, we go to a party. It's kind of slightly confusing because we arrive in the daytime, we're kind of wearing bathing suits. I don't know what the heck we were thinking in the costume department. I think we were confused. Right. But it wasn't supposed to be the pajama party or the Midsummer nights party. It was just some vague party. When you watched the episode, did you think like, oh, that's accurate or though that's totally inaccurate or what were your thoughts?

[Holly Madison]

It's pretty accurate. Like, I can't pinpoint, like you said exactly what party that was supposed to be. Like, it's a little bit like the fun in the sun pool parties. But there were a lot more people there in your guys's scene. A lot more extras. The fun in the sun pool parties would have, like, girls come up and like, enjoy the pool and everything. And Hef and his friends would be playing backgammon by the pool and some of his guy friends would be out on the tennis courts. But it wouldn't be very many people at all. Like less than 50 people. So they were pretty intimate. I would say the party I can compare the most to what you guys did was maybe like the 4th of July party, because that would be like a bigger daytime party. And then it would kind of move into a nighttime party. That's kind of. I think that's the only party they threw that was like that. That went from day to night.

[Kristen Davis]

Interesting. And then so in our scenes where we. We come in and I think that we filmed things that didn't end up in the show. At least I remember things that I don't think are in the show. One was that we had this scene where we were walking in and. And there were people, you know, girls in assorted small bikinis playing with bubbles. I don't know what the heck we were doing. But like, what. How. What was regular life there like, versus a party or when people would come, you know, regular life.

[Holly Madison]

It was pretty quiet during like a weekday. But at the same time it wasn't totally private like a home either. I started giving tours at the Mansion because they tours like a few times a week, like in the mornings on weekdays. And they would do it for like, contest winners or like military or people like that. And so I would kind of give people a tour of the grounds or whatever. And then one wing of the house was offices, so that's where half would go to work. And there was like a whole secretary staff down there. And then aside from his party, sometimes at night they would rent out the backyard for like corporate events and things like that. So that would kind of be like a whole separate world. So that was kind of the day to day life of the house for me and the other girls living there. We would just kind of during the day do whatever, you know, whatever. Shopping, errands, you know, some of us were still in college or going to school and things like that. We would do that. And then we had like a famous nine o' clock curfew. And no, there would be different activities every night a week. Like a couple nights a week. Like Wednesday and Friday, Hef would take us out to nightclubs. Wednesday night? Yeah, Wednesday night was a club night. Thursday night we would usually like go out to a restaurant. Friday was a club night. Saturday and Sunday he would have movie nights. Of course, Sunday during the day was a pool party. Monday he would gather with like his guy friends and watch a movie. He called that manly night. So us girls didn't really have anything.

[Kristen Davis]

To do on Monday.

[Holly Madison]

And then two, we would usually play like board games or something. So it was a whole variety. Wow. All over the place. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

That is so fascinating. I need to read your book. I need to read your book and get all the details because now I'm super interested. How many girls were there when you lived there?

[Holly Madison]

Well, during the last four years I was there, when we were doing the Girls Next Door show, it was just three of us. But when I first moved in, he was kind of in this Seven Girlfriends era. And that was just a nightmare. When I was there for that, nobody got along. And it was a constant revolving door. So it wasn't even the same set of seven girls when I first moved in as there was like three or four years later. So it was this cast of characters that was just all really competitive. And that was my least favorite time living there for sure. It was just a mess.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. When we, when we were there, there were. There were a bunch of girls. I mean, probably they brought extras and whatever in. I don't know. They were all obviously gorgeous and you know, whatnot. Wearing small clothing and we chatted with them, but not a lot. Like they kind of had. They. They would put them in a separate place and then we. Our place that we were supposed to spend the day was the game room. Oh, it was so weird.

[Holly Madison]

It is. It's a capsule out there. The game room was a whole separate, like, guest cottage on the property. And it was kind of this weird combination of, like, 70s arcade games and 80s arcade games. And then Heft's girlfriend in the 70s, Barbie Benton, had, like, decorated it, like, all old school, like, American antiques. So there was a weird mix of, like, American antiques and, like, 70s, 80s pinball machines.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes. And then there was this. Okay, that's so crazy that it was Barbie Benton, who, of course, like, you know, people of my generation know. There was, like, a pit, like a carpeted area with, like, a seating room. Yeah. What the heck was that?

[Holly Madison]

That was like a. Like a sex room on the side. And it had, like, a button.

[Kristen Davis]

Us, Holly.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, it had.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, no, the m. Yeah, we were scared. We were scared.

[Holly Madison]

Okay. So it had, like, a carpeted mattress floor with, like, pillows, and then there were, like, mirrored walls, and, like, the corners looked like mirrors. But then if you turned on a light, it would, like, the mirror would, like, disappear, and it would be like sex statues would be.

[Kristen Davis]

We saw the sex statues. We did see the sex statues. And we were like, why are we in here? Like, because it was a long day, right. So they were trying to find somewhere, like, theoretically comfortable for. We had a weird vibe in that room. So I think we tried to move.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. A lot of people thought that house was haunted, too.

[Kristen Davis]

It definitely had a lot of, like, kind of dark energy, I would say. I mean, it's kind of a dark house as well. It's like an old dark house. But then, so. So, okay. Oh, God. It's giving me stress just thinking about it. But when we went, okay, so let's think about the party itself on film. And I don't know whose idea it was or. I feel like the guys in our world were really into showing all this, Right? Like, you know, in the way, you know, that they would be. And there's. So the grotto is, you know, part of. Part of it. And as the night goes on, you're like, none of the girls have tops on and whatever. Is this what would happen sometimes?

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, sometimes people would get a little crazier at night. But, you know, what was crazy about the parties is I always say that at the parties, I never saw anything too wild. I would hear about it, but, like, as a girlfriend, I would always kind of have to be seated at the table with half, which would be over by the dance floor. And believe it or not, people would be More on their best behavior in front of him because everybody wanted to stay on the list. They wanted to get invited back. So it would be more like I would hear from other playmates that like oh my God, I saw this in the grotto at 2am but that wasn't the stuff we would see really.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it. So what would good behavior be for half? Like meaning guys wouldn't be too aggressive with you guys. Not you, but the other non girlfriends. Is that like what was the like I, my, my thing that I felt upset about because they wanted us to all go to a pajama party in some kind of agreement about us filming there. And I was like, I am not going to that pajama party. I don't understand this. Like that seems a weird situation to put myself in. I felt worried. And also you had to wear some skimpy. What? I. I was just like I can't even get my mind around this. And I don't know if that was really silly of me or not. You what I'm saying, like what was the vibe in terms of the guy woman situation at the parties?

[Holly Madison]

I think for most guests, I mean obviously I've heard stories that aren't this too but I think for most guests it was okay. I think if you were really having a problem with somebody, they could tell you could tell security and they would have them removed. I mean I have to imagine having them removed would be easier for somebody who's more of an anonymous guy and maybe not like a big celebrity. But I think it was a pretty safe place for most partygoers. Again with the allowance that I've also heard that that hasn't been the case with some people, but I think for the most part most people had a good experience at the parties.

[Kristen Davis]

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[Kristen Davis]

So people did have a feeling of like I want to be here. I want to get invited back. I'm I'm. It's super fun. I'm sure there were drugs and but I'm still going to behave like as much as you know, like I'm not going to freak out. Well that's good to know because I didn't know what to think. I just remember all all the guys I knew wanted to go, you know and were it was seemed like you know, for them, like for the men. You know what I'm saying? That's why I didn't really feel like, yes, I would like to put myself in that situation, like, at the time. Yeah. But it was also very interesting to be there in terms of. I felt at the time, you know, it was very much held up as being empowering for women in some way. But I feel like we don't think of it that way now. That way, Correct.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. I mean, I think that was what I bought into as well. When I went there is like, you know, I want to have this experience as, you know, being in the magazine and being seen as sexy and whatever. And I was just in, like, the deepest, deepest, like, inner. Inner ring where it really wasn't liberating anymore. But I think that was generally, you know, Playboy was accepted as like, this acceptable retro brand that, like, your dad grew up with and everything. You know, it seemed pretty tame at the time.

[Kristen Davis]

Right, right. It's interesting. It's interesting. But honestly, and this might be just, like, really too far, what I'm gonna say, we could cut it out. But, like, I thought my innocent little self, you know, when you guys did. Did. Cause at the time that we filmed, you weren't there yet. It wasn't the girls next door yet. And then when the girls next door happened, I thought it was all fake. Like, I just assumed you guys were not having to have sex with Hef.

[Holly Madison]

No. A lot of people thought that when I first, you know, moved into the group and, like, agree, like, go out with Hef and everything, I still wasn't clear on what was going on. Like, I'm like, okay, there has to be something going on. So I'm gonna go kind of check it out, see what it is. But I didn't know how much would be going on or it was very ambiguous because, you know, he'd be out there talking about how he takes Viagra all the time and these are all my girlfriends and things like that. But, like, people didn't really believe it. They thought, this has to be a publicity stunt.

[Kristen Davis]

I did not. Yeah, I did not believe it. So no one explained it to you? Like, no one said, this is what it is?

[Holly Madison]

No, not at all. Wow. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

So you just got sucked in, but little by little.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, totally. I think when I talk about my situation and people were like, well, you knew what you were getting into. They're picturing that scene in Fifty Shades of Gray where she sits down at the table and she's given, like, this big contract about the consent and what's going to happen. And there's nothing like that up there. It is kind of Something you can get into, like, little by little and kind of like, lose yourself. It's very unstructured in that way.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow.

[Holly Madison]

Wow.

[Kristen Davis]

I'm sorry that that happened to you and all the other people, you know.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

And it was really held up as, like, you know, empowering for you guys and supporting you guys in your dreams. And, you know, he seemed so kind of just like, fuddy duddy ish, you know, I mean, he was wearing the weird clothes, but, like, I remember when he. He was filming with us, he was very nice, as I said, like in a kind of a uncle y kind of a way, and then up. And you were just like, he's so little and old.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

You know, but yet this other stuff was still going on, which just really blows my mind.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, it was crazy, for sure. And I have to say, the scene you guys did there, the casting, was so spot on because they have so many female extras. And I recognize some of them. Some of them were playmates, some of them weren't. But the. And then they have a few men sprinkled in there. And the men are all super old. And the actor they have you talking to, when you're laying down on the pillows talking to that actor, he looks like. He so fits the part. Like, everything about his face and his teeth. Like, he looks like he would be one of Hef's buddies.

[Kristen Davis]

Like, I agree.

[Holly Madison]

How did they know?

[Kristen Davis]

I don't know. I don't know. I think they did a great job, too. And I. I had forgotten a lot of it. I. There's certain things I remember really well. Like, I remember the room that they put us in with the games and the psych statues. And I remember they kept trying to tell us that we wanted to go to the zoo, but I was so freaked out that he had wild animals there that I was like, no, thank you. I don't want to go to the zoo. Like, it's weird. Like, but everyone was very nice to us, obviously. But when we went to do the scene, I do remember being just so generally icked out. And I felt like that guy that I'm talking to wasn't even an actor. He just seemed fully. I mean, I'm sure he was, but, like, I felt like he was a guy that you would meet at a Hollywood party.

[Holly Madison]

Oh, he embodied it. Like, that guy was so good.

[Kristen Davis]

He really did. Too good. Too good. And I also didn't really remember what happened, which I often feel when I'm rewatching now because it's a while ago, obviously. And I remember the experience of filming more than the scenes and I thought, oh no, what is Charlotte doing? Don't talk to that guy. Ew. But that's good to know that you think we did a good job of casting it. That's good. Did you feel because, okay, so you watched this particular episode that aired in 2000 before you lived there, and then once you lived there, did you feel like oh yeah, Sexy City was pretty accurate or did you feel like no.

[Holly Madison]

I think I thought it was accurate for sure because it's just showing a party and it looked exactly like what a party would look like. Of course it doesn't capture everything about day to day life there, but it wasn't supposed to. It was just characters going to a party. So I thought it was super accurate.

[Kristen Davis]

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[Kristen Davis]

Isn't it weird to think that three HBO's shows film there, like Entourage, Curb youb Enthusiasm. I do not remember this. And us. That is bizarre. Yeah. Yeah.

[Holly Madison]

It's like. Like, everybody. It was crazy.

[Kristen Davis]

Do you feel like. And I don't know, this is probably. You know, I don't know if I should even say this, but, like, did we help to forward a kind of untrue narrative? You know, that it was glamorous and fun when it was really more than that?

[Holly Madison]

I wouldn't say an untrue narrative, because there was that side of it that was like that for sure. And I think that's the experience a lot of people had who didn't get deeper into it. But, I mean, it doesn't cover the whole thing. But I don't think it was supposed to. No, no.

[Kristen Davis]

I mean, it wasn't supposed to. But I. I do feel just some mixed feelings about the fact that, you know, our show, which is absolutely supposed to be about empowering women, and that was something that we felt really strongly about and really empowering and making space for all different kinds of sexuality, but freedom within that and, you know, consent and all of those things. And I remember at the time feeling uncomfortable about it, but that has a lot to do with how I grew up and my mom's opinions of it all, you know, very feminist and not into that. And then I remember later on feeling like, oh, maybe I was wrong. You know, like when. Because when you guys did the show, it did seem like you were somehow being supported or forwarding your dreams or, you know, it was. It didn't seem negative. Right. And I thought, oh, well, I'm glad for them. You know, that's how I felt at the time, of course, not knowing still the whole story, which you guys hadn't had the opportunity to tell. So I'm glad, number one, that you have had the opportunity to tell the whole story. Because I do feel like sometimes there's things in our business, maybe less so now, but in our world, the entertainment world in general, where it seems like, oh, this could be a good opportunity for you, and, yes, it involves your sexuality, but that doesn't mean that it's inherently bad. Right. But yet it's a slippery slope, a hundred percent.

[Holly Madison]

That's why I talk about it as much as I do, is I've heard, you know, Playboy doesn't exist in the same way as it did back then. But I've heard, you know, people tell me that they grew up watching Girls Next Door and thought it was so fun, so they thought the next best thing to get into would be porn. And now they regret it. So it's crazy the kind of effect those things can have. So that's why.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Holly Madison]

About it. And love talking about, you know, what my motivations were and what I thought I was getting into and what it was really like, just so people kind of know what those situations are.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. I think that's great. I think it's so important and I'm so glad that you're okay. You're at a place in your life where you can do that and you can share that and you're. You've done the work on yourself to be able to share that without it being, you know, re. Traumatizing yourself.

[Holly Madison]

Thank you.

[Kristen Davis]

You're welcome. It's so important. And I mean, that's also one of the things that I think about when I look at the episodes, you know, did we unwittingly take part in also glamorizing something that maybe wasn't great for women? I don't know. You know, I don't know. It really was part of our culture, though, at that point in time. Yeah. So in that way I feel like. Well, it kind of makes sense. Right. And of course, we couldn't know everything that was going on behind the scenes because no one was talking at that point.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Just so harmless back then.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. Except when you were there, it didn't feel harmless. I did. I didn't feel the vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they put us in the sex room, so yeah, we got the vibe. And I feel like the people that they hired, and it's interesting to. For you to say that you recognize some of them. I do feel like some of them. I feel like we're living there, you know, and we were. We were so fascinated, but we also didn't know. We didn't want to overstep our bounds in terms of like talking to people or asking them questions like what is your life like? You know what I mean? But we were there for a few days. It seemed like it was a while, you know, that we filmed and. And it didn't seem like they were just happy. Go lucky. Woohoo. We're living the life we want. It seemed like there was more stress.

[Holly Madison]

You know, I feel like I can almost see it on the girls. The twins he's dating, you know, the twins, yeah, they. They don't seem in a light mood, you know what I mean?

[Kristen Davis]

I do know what you mean. And that's what we felt. That's what we felt when we Were there, but yet we were supposed to be showing this glamorous. There was really no way to, you know, do a better job of telling the story. And also, no one was really volunteering any information to us either. Not that that was even our job. But like, for me, you know, when I go into a place I'm always interested in, you know, how do people actually seem like. Do they seem happy? You know, and at the time, it was such a. Like you said, I mean, those parties you would. Here, everybody went to those parties, you know, they were very much mainstream Hollywood. You wanted to go. I mean, not myself, because I was scared, as I said. But men in general wanted to go. And I feel like women wanted to go. I mean, I definitely know people who went and I don't. But they were actresses and I don't think anything negative happened, you know, because, I mean, you could go to any party in LA and people are going to hit on you. It's not shocking, obviously. And it. Yeah, Nothing worse than that. You know what I mean? But how.

[Holly Madison]

How.

[Kristen Davis]

Just curiosity's sake. How long did you live there?

[Holly Madison]

I lived seven years. Wow. Almost all of my 20s.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Holly Madison]

Whoa, whoa. Wow.

[Kristen Davis]

Well, it's really great that you got out and that you're writing about it. Is there anything else that you want to talk about from the show or from the episode that I didn't touch on? I'm just so curious. Your own perspective.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

One thing I'm curious.

[Holly Madison]

Do you remember what the lead time on your show was like? How far in advance you filmed versus at that point?

[Kristen Davis]

Not far. It would have been just a couple months. Yeah. Because we would go back to work in February. We'd been pretending it was spring. Cause we always came on in June. And so by this point, I have the date here somewhere. We would have been filming and it would have been like maybe two, three months before it was on. So pretty quick. Pretty quick. We would have been there in the summer of 2000. It would have been on and it was on in September. So we would have been there in the middle. Yeah. And I do think that the Midsummer Night party was the week that we were filming, because we were all supposed to go, but I was like, well, no one asked me. I'm not gonna go. No one got. Am I okay? You know, and I was in some trouble because we had been apparently committed, you know, to do it.

[Holly Madison]

Did any of the cast go?

[Kristen Davis]

I think they all went. Oh, we would have to ask them. I think they all went to kind of like make an appearance and go, you know what I'm saying? I don't think they hung necessarily, but I think that they were good employees as opposed to myself, where I was like, my mother's gonna be really mad at me, you know, very Charlotte type of a situation. But, you know, I grew up with. They. It was just not thought of as empowering. Right. To be, to be, you know, outwardly sexual or whatever. But then I find myself on the show called Sex and the City. So, you know, it's all really interesting. But I do feel like, you know, it's an interesting thing to think about too, because obviously your personal experience and what you're going through is not good. And the fact that no one was upfront with you about it is even worse. Right. So like you're little by little, you know, pulled in. That's the worst situation, I think. And happens so frequently, unfortunately. But I do feel, and it's an interesting thing, you know, the openness about sexuality, I do feel is generally important for women.

[Holly Madison]

Oh, I think so too. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

And it's so hard to know when it crosses the line into not being empowering. It's a very interesting, interesting thing, I think.

[Holly Madison]

No, I think too.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. Because we can't just hide ourselves. There's no. Why should we have to hide ourselves? Like we're sexual beings, just like men are sexual beings like that. It's. It's unfair and, you know, inequitable to think that we can't. Right. But then there's so much danger in the world, you know, in many ways. Right? Yeah. So you want to be careful. It's an interesting thing to me. And I have a 14 year old daughter, so I think about these things. You know what I mean?

[Holly Madison]

I think so too. My daughter's 12 and.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, wow.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, I think, I think more discussion is better, honestly, because like, when I was young, kind of the trend was like. Or the way it was portrayed in pop culture was like, women should just be able to have sex like a man and not care. And, you know, that's empowerment. And I feel like nobody talks about like the emotional impact of sex.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, I agree.

[Holly Madison]

For some reason. And I think, you know, and of course, like females, we operate a little bit differently. Obviously there's outliers, but I think for most females, there's a huge emotional impact that comes with sex. And just people don't want to talk about that for some reason. They just act like everything should just be casual. They act like you should either be totally casual about it or you need to like, have, like, religious principles that keep you in line and nobody kind of talks about the in between. Like, well, why is it not so great? And how do you really feel?

[Kristen Davis]

That's so true. So true, Holly. I mean, I think it's super interesting, certainly when we're thinking about our daughters, too, because we have come so far in so many ways, and then in some ways, we still don't have total freedom to talk about anything freely that impacts us. Right. Like, why. Why is it not okay to talk about the fact that women are gonna potentially be navigating sex differently than men? That makes sense. Right. And maybe it's. Maybe it's not true. Right. Like, maybe there's a Samantha out there and she wants to have sex like a man and more power to her. Right, Right. But what about all of the kind of realities of it, you know? Like, the realities. And what do we say to our daughters? And, you know, I think it's important to think about that. My daughter, they still have sex ed classes that are about, like, consent and, you know, really important, interesting things that I certainly never. We didn't get anything like that. We were like, you're gonna get your period. Like, that was really it, you know, but. And I think it's so great. My daughter hates. Hates these classes, though. Yeah. She's like, oh, no. And I'm like, just. Just do it. Just do it. It's going to be useful information for sure. But it's so, so hard to navigate a hundred percent.

[Holly Madison]

It's really tricky. So I think the more discussion, the better, honestly.

[Kristen Davis]

I think you're right. I think you're right. Because really, really, you know, covering things and having secrecy just leads to bad badness, because then people feel like they can't talk and they can't say something that's true for them, or they can't report something bad that happened to them, or they can't. That's the worst. That's what we need to get rid of.

[Holly Madison]

Absolutely, yes.

[Kristen Davis]

When you look back and you see, like, if you were ever to just be flipping in or not that people flip. If you were ever to be streaming the episode of Sex of the City at the Mansion, was there, would you. Would you think, like, oh, and watch it where you'd be like, oh, no, I don't want to watch it.

[Holly Madison]

I mean, for me personally, like, I've already seen it and I like it, and I think it's fun, and I think it's like a fun glimpse into that era. The things I get triggered by more Personally, I mean, it's always surprising. Like, I do a rewatch podcast with one of my co stars from Girls Next Door and the show will hit a certain way. But then we did an episode where we talked about the movie the House Bunny with Anna Faris that.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Holly Madison]

With the Mansion. And we had parts then. And it was weird because this was a very lighthearted comedy. But I told Bridget I'm, like, watching it on that movie, like, hit differently for some reason. Like, I never really know how it's gonna hit, but I think it's in the City episode because I wasn't in it and because it more captures the time period when I was just aware of Playboy as kind of an outsider. Like, I think I hadn't even gone to. I think that party that the rest of your cast went to was the first party I went to.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my gosh.

[Holly Madison]

Wow. So it more kind of captures the era where I still, like, only knew Playboy from the outside and was kind of fascinated by it. Like, I remember thinking the twins he was dating were so gorgeous. I remember seeing them at that party. So for me, it's more one of the ones I like. And you know what else I love? Random Is in the scene, you're wearing this bikini top that's like cherry print. A blaster in the past. Because I remember so specifically, like, that summer, like, the cherry print being everywhere. Like, I think Coach did a bunch of cherry print bags. And like, I was like, in downtown because I was, like, a broke college students. So I was, like, in downtown looking for all the fake Coach Cherry stuff.

[Kristen Davis]

I love it. Yeah. That was Shoshana. Do you ever remember the line Shoshana? That was Shoshana. Because Shoshana was cut for people with hips, which would be me. And there was always some stress when we would have, like, beach or bathing suit or whatever, because I, you know, I didn't know what the heck to wear. And Pat Field, our costume designer, was always unsure about me. And then. That's my own sarong I just tied on. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. But I also think that we were fundamentally confused in that costume because we come in the daytime, but then it's nighttime. And were we supposed to get in the grotto? I don't even know. Like, to me, I watched that episode and I think, like, what. What were we doing? Like, what were we actually doing? I don't know, but it works. I mean, I love that picture of us with the four of us walking, walking in. And also because we are from New York, we Also don't really know, you know what. But, like, the characters aren't supposed to know what they're doing.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah. They are supposed to be a shout of water, so.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. Oh, I'm glad. I'm glad that you have a positive association when you watch it. That's good. That makes me happy. That makes me happy. Well, you are such a joy. Thank you so, so much. I have a pressing question for you.

[Holly Madison]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Are you a Charlotte?

[Holly Madison]

You know what? Back in the day when Sex and the City was on and I watched it regularly, I was for sure a Charlotte. I identify as being a hopeless romantic and all that.

[Kristen Davis]

That.

[Holly Madison]

But as time goes on, I think I'm more of a Carrie. I've written a couple memoirs, so I identify as a writer. And also, like all the kind of like anxious, attachment style, cringe stuff that Carrie does has totally been me. Like, have you seen those edits where they do the three times she shows up in Big's doorway?

[Kristen Davis]

Love them so much.

[Holly Madison]

And the crop I'm. And the guy doesn't give up. That's been me so many. Oh, no, I think I'm really a Carrie. Wow.

[Kristen Davis]

I love it. I love it. I'm also kind of a Carrie. I'm like half Carrie, half Charlotte. And I do love those edits because there's just a way where you can see things from a different perspective. Where you're like, that is so embarrassing. You know what I'm saying?

[Holly Madison]

We've all been there.

[Kristen Davis]

We've all been there. And then the funny thing is, like, at the time that we were making the show, it never entered my mind that she should stop trying. I was like, of course.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, he's the cooler.

[Kristen Davis]

Go in your crop. Yeah. Go in your McDonald's, you know, Le Big Mac, you know, whatever. I mean, it's all so interesting and I like the show in that way and that at different times in your life, you will look at it with different perspectives.

[Holly Madison]

Yeah, for sure.

[Kristen Davis]

I like that part the best, I think, because we all relate in different ways.

[Holly Madison]

Totally.

[Kristen Davis]

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[Holly Madison]

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