Insta Graham Official with Heather Graham... (S2 E18 “Ex and the City”)

Summary

Are You A Charlotte?

Episode: Insta Graham Official with Heather Graham (S2 E18 “Ex and the City”)

Date: October 13, 2025
Host: Kristin Davis
Guest: Heather Graham

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Episode Overview

This episode features Kristin Davis (Charlotte on Sex and the City) joined by actress and superfan Heather Graham, for an in-depth, nostalgic, and candid discussion centered on “Ex and the City” (S2 E18), the beloved season finale. The conversation explores the episode’s iconic moments, the show's lasting cultural legacy, behind-the-scenes stories, and the resonance of Sex and the City’s themes of love, friendship, and self-discovery. The duo also dive into the continued relevance of single women’s stories, reflect on Robert Redford and film magic, and swap personal anecdotes from Hollywood.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why “Ex and the City” is a Classic

• Heather Graham: “I think it's my favorite episode ever.” (04:50)
• The episode’s iconic closing scene (Carrie in her white dress at The Plaza, referencing The Way We Were), and the masterful weaving of multiple storylines.
• Both Kristin and Heather express admiration for Michael Patrick King's writing/directing, calling this episode a high point for the show.

Cultural Touchstone

• The recent passing of Robert Redford (referenced at 05:15) and the direct homage to The Way We Were in the Sex and the City finale.
• Kristin and Heather reminisce about classic films (Butch Cassidy, The Way We Were) and their personal childhood film memories (05:53).

The Power of Iconic Imagery

• Kristin's memories of her character’s horseback riding scene:
  “I had to go to Staten Island for horseback riding lessons, which was a whole trip.” (07:20)
  They discuss the now-closed Claremont Stables and its unique “horse elevator.” (08:17)

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2. Revolutionary Portrayals of Single Women

• Heather Graham: “Maybe she's just a horse that needs to run free. And it was very cool seeing that in a TV series… you don't have to get married, you don't have to have kids. You can just feel good about yourself, wear a fabulous dress, have great friends, and just enjoy your life regardless.” (08:45)
• Kristin reflects on auditioning for the show, eager to be part of something so distinct and empowering for women. (09:11)

Context in TV History

• Comparing Sex and the City to earlier representations:
  • Heather Graham: “Laverne & Shirley, it was like, oh, they're sad, they can't find any guys... This was like, yeah, we're single and we're fabulous.” (10:32)
  • Brief nods to Mary Tyler Moore (“Mary Richards...kind of fit, fabulous.” - 10:57) and The Golden Girls.

Enduring Appeal

• Heather reveals she only started watching midway (in Prague, filming, binge-watching tapes), reminding us of the show’s international and enduring fanbase. (11:22)
• Commentary on the shift from limited TV options to today’s plethora of content, yet a relative scarcity of shows about women enjoying single life. (12:10)

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3. Behind-the-Scenes Stories

Heather Graham’s Guest Appearance

• Heather shares memories of her cameo—friends with several writers and cast (notably Willie Garson), and how people still bring it up. (13:28)
• Sweet anecdote: Sarah Jessica Parker gave Heather a gift certificate for a foot massage due to all the high heels on set. (14:34)

Writing Evolution & Directorial Choices

• Kristin and Heather praise the show’s progression from season 1’s experimental styles (breaking the fourth wall, extras commenting on sex) to a tighter, character-focused narrative:
  • “They managed to do, like, have a lot of humor, sexy, but also this poignancy and this kind of fresh point of view about women and dating…” (15:58)

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4. “Ex and the City” Episode Breakdown

Key Plotlines (31:49)

• Each lead gets a meaningful arc—rare and challenging with four main characters.
• Kristin walks through Miranda’s adorable, vulnerable reaction to seeing ex Steve (32:29), underscoring the show’s commitment to real emotional nuance.

Classic Coffee Shop Scene

• The group debates if men and women can be friends post-breakup, and whether it’s possible to truly stay friends with exes.
• Carrie’s Big Question: “If you love someone and you break up, where does the love go?” (44:44)
• Samantha's classic quip: “To the other girlfriend.” (44:44)

Romantic Idealism & Self-worth

• The “Hubble” moment from The Way We Were echoes through the show’s conclusion, symbolizing unreciprocated love, acceptance, and personal growth.
• Heather: “That moment at the end was her just deciding to feel good about herself, even though that relationship didn’t work out and to feel how amazing she is...” (28:26)

Revisiting Classic Lines

• Heather’s favorite Charlotte line:
  “I've been dating since I was 15. Where is he? My hair hurts.” (24:34)
• Kristin describes loving how fans and awards shows always responded with laughter to that line, and remembers acting it completely without makeup, feeling vulnerable and authentic. (25:09)

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5. Personal Reflections & Hollywood Anecdotes

Real-life Crossings

• Kristin recalls seeing Heather with Heath Ledger at Coffee Bean (39:24).
• Heather shares personal warmth and pride about her relationship with Ledger, his light, and how short yet intense such artistry and life sometimes are (41:11).

Navigating Fame and Public Memory

• The women riff on embracing (or avoiding) their own press photos at home (09:46).
• Heather: “I've always kind of slightly hidden it. But I also think it's cool people that celebrate it.” (10:02)

On the Magic of Classic Movies

• Their adoration for Robert Redford and Out of Africa, with Heather venting about the unfair critical response Redford/film initially got. (43:18)
• Kristin: “That's why I ended up having my obsession [with Africa].” (44:14)

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6. Themes of Growing Up, Realism & Friendship

• The finale’s assertion: the most important relationship is with yourself, regardless of romance. (23:22)
• Kristin notes the challenge of depicting happiness alone in a film/TV format versus with a dramatic relationship, leading to the show's ongoing storytelling in “And Just Like That.” (23:58)
• Discussion of healthy boundaries with exes and the challenge of self-honesty and codependency after breakups. (46:06)
• Both reflect on how the characters—and themselves—balance romantic longing, independence, fantasy, and reality.

Who Are You? Charlotte, Carrie, Miranda, or Samantha?

• Heather sees herself as a combination and reflects how she’s incorporated more “Charlotte” traits as she’s matured. (47:26)
• Kristin: “I am like half Charlotte, half Carrie.” (47:18)

The Importance of Representation

• Both celebrate how Sex and the City gave women a chance to see empowered, complicated single women center-stage.
• Heather: “It's incredible to be part of something that means things to people. It is the best part of our business. It pretty much evens out all the hard parts.” (50:33)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Heather Graham, on singlehood on TV:
  “You don't have to get married. You don't have to have kids. You can just feel good about yourself, wear a fabulous dress, have great friends, and just enjoy your life regardless.” (08:45)

• Kristin Davis, on her ambitions:
  “When I read it, 1998, I thought… I want to live like this. I didn’t have the confidence the characters had…” (09:11)

• On friendship after breakups:
  “If you love someone and you break up, where does the love go?” – Carrie via Kristin Davis (44:44)

• On self-worth and endings:
  “The most important relationship is the one you have with yourself.” (23:22)

• Heather, summing up the show’s true radical message:
  “Just about, like, the friends enjoying their friendships…without being like, oh, the movie needs to end with a wedding and like a woman with a pregnant belly.” (22:36)

• On finding yourself after heartbreak:
  “Her just deciding to feel good about herself… she doesn't need that guy to affirm her, she can just absolutely affirm herself.” – Heather Graham on Carrie’s ending moment (28:26)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:50 – Heather Graham calls "Ex and the City" her favorite episode ever.
• 05:15-06:34 – Reminiscing about Robert Redford, childhood movie moments, and classic film magic.
• 07:20-08:17 – Kristin’s horseback riding scene and the quirky history of NYC’s now-closed Claremont Horse Stables.
• 08:45 – Heather on the radical empowerment of single women on Sex and the City.
• 13:28-14:34 – Heather recounts her guest appearance and Sarah Jessica Parker’s kindness.
• 23:22 – Discussing Carrie's legendary line: “The most important relationship is the one you have with yourself.”
• 24:34 – “Where is he? My hair hurts.” – Charlotte’s iconic frustration, a favorite fan moment.
• 31:49-32:57 – Episode rewatch: breaking down main storylines, Miranda’s emotional arc.
• 39:24 – Kristin and Heather reminisce about seeing each other with Heath Ledger in L.A.
• 44:44 – Classic group debate: Can you be friends with exes?
• 53:20 – Early Sex and the City wardrobe budget stories and how the show’s visual/style evolved.

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Final Notes

This episode is a heartfelt, deeply nostalgic, and fun journey through what made Sex and the City's "Ex and the City" episode legendary. It’s rich with inside stories, reflections on friendship, romance, feminism, and aging—balancing uplifting appreciation and candid, vulnerable sharing. Both women’s warmth and gratitude for the show and each other shine, providing fans with fresh insight and a strong sense of belonging within the Sex and the City sisterhood.

Stay tuned for part two, where Kristin and Heather will continue to break down “Ex and the City” and share even more stories from sex, the city, and beyond.

Transcript

[Heather Graham]

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

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[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Kristin Davis]

Hi.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Heather Graham]

That's why I'm working on a Saturday.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Jay Shetty]

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[Cardi B]

I felt the love dying. I was crying every day. I fell in the deepest depression that.

[Kristin Davis]

I had ever had.

[Cardi B]

This was not given to me. I worked my ass off for me.

[Jay Shetty]

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[Kristin Davis]

Hi, I'm Kristin Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi. Welcome back to are you a Charlotte? I love my guest today so, so much. It is Heather Graham. She is an incredible actress. She was on the show Sex and the City in the fifth season. But mostly she's on the show today because she's a super fan and she has so many thoughts and feelings and I have loved her work for so long. She was in, to name just a few, Drugstore Cowboy, Boogie Nights, Austin Bowers. I mean, the Hangover. I could go on and on and on. Her career has been fantastic and she is a joy. And this particular episode is a thrilling episode. It is called X and the City. It's the end of season two. It aired October 3, 1999, which sounds like I'm making that up, but no. And the funny thing about this one is it's written and directed by Michael Patrick King, who then, you know, went on to write and direct the movies and just like that. And we love him very much. And I think it might be one of our best all time episodes.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

I agree.

[Heather Graham]

I think it's my favorite episode ever.

[Kristin Davis]

I think so too. I was rewatching it and one of the things about rewatching, which is interesting is that of course, you know, when you're in something, you have your own memories, which might have to do with what was happening behind the scenes that day or, you know, different things. Right. So I remember pieces of this episode and I didn't remember that they were all together in one episode.

[Heather Graham]

Well, I think it's really interesting we're talking about this today. Cause of Robert Redford.

[Kristin Davis]

I know.

[Heather Graham]

You know, and the way we were. I mean, that way we were seen at the end where you talk about Hubble and all that stuff and he just died. And of course, what an iconic, amazing person.

[Kristin Davis]

I know an iconic, amazing person. And I have to say, I have so much, I take so much comfort from the fact that he was 89 and he died in his sleep.

[Heather Graham]

No. He had a wonderful life. Look at all the incredible things he did.

[Kristin Davis]

I know.

[Heather Graham]

What a leader. Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, like for us, we're roughly in the same decade of category of age, you know, that was who we looked at as.

[Heather Graham]

He was probably one of my first crushes.

[Kristin Davis]

Harrison Ford.

[Heather Graham]

Robert Redford. Yeah, right.

[Kristin Davis]

That was my first film I ever saw. My mother was the Way we Were.

[Heather Graham]

No, no.

[Kristin Davis]

Butch Cassidy as kid. I was four years old. She took me to the theaters because no one thought twice about this stuff.

[Heather Graham]

I was not allowed to see like an R rated or pg.

[Kristin Davis]

I don't even. Everyone's getting killed and I'm just sitting there. But I was so. It's such a beautiful, beautiful film to look at.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, it is.

[Kristin Davis]

And I was so enthralled, of course, with both of them. Paul Newman, Robert Redwood. My God. And just the be of the film, I was like fully.

[Heather Graham]

You know, it's a classic.

[Kristin Davis]

In love in every way. With filmmaking, you know, and the power and their eyes and their souls.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I feel like the X in the City is one is a classic episode too. I mean, when I go back and rewatch. Because sometimes, whenever, like, for me it's like a comfort. And also it relates to a time of my life as well. But I watch those episodes and there's something about it that's so uplifting and. And inspiring. And that's one of my most inspiring episodes.

[Kristin Davis]

Ah. I mean, really, when I watched it, I had chills many times when I rewatched. And I mean, I remember of course, Carrie in her white dress outside the plaza. Cause it's a very iconic image and it was so beautifully filmed.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

But I had forgotten all of the other little details. I'd forgotten about the scene. We're gonna get to it in the pink dress in eleven Madison, which is so good. I had forgotten that my horse riding was in that episode. I remember my horse riding through Central Park.

[Heather Graham]

Was that really you?

[Kristin Davis]

Ye. Well, not the galloping, I guess it's really the canter. But I did ride. I did ride. I had to go to Staten island for horseback riding lessons, which was a whole trip lucky.

[Heather Graham]

That must have been fun, right? It makes me think of the Staten island episode. That's true, that's true.

[Kristin Davis]

But it didn't seem like this. It wasn't that Staten Island. It was a different Staten island where I was like, is anyone going to be able to find me and come get me? It was more like that. No, Offense.

[Heather Graham]

So it wasn't fun. Okay.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, it was fun. Cause there were horses involved, and I do love horses. But it was more like that kind of part where you go to a part of New York City and you're like, I had no idea that this existed. It was like that. It was like that. But I got to ride a horse. And then we went to the Claremont horse stables, which now have been closed down. But it was the weirdest crazy. It's where we're filming in the episode. There was, like, a horse elevator, because it's basically a building of horse stalls.

[Heather Graham]

Wow.

[Kristin Davis]

From the turn of the century.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

Wow.

[Kristin Davis]

That they finally had to close down because it just wasn't safe for the horses. Right. Because there was, like, too many horses in there, and they're on this rickety horse elevator that you can see in the background of that scene with Sarah Jessica and I. I know. And then you. They. You people would keep their horses there and ride their horse out into Central Park. Like, have you ever been in Central park and see someone ride by?

[Heather Graham]

Yeah. Yeah. It's so crazy from that stable.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

But now that stable is closed, so I don't know where they're coming from now. It's really interesting.

[Heather Graham]

The horse image at the end, to me was such a beautiful thing that expressed to me what was so inspiring about the show was like, this horse that can't be tamed. Like, maybe she's just a horse that needs to run free. And it was very cool seeing that in a TV series, because there weren't that many show. I can even think of a show that expressed like, you don't have to get married. You don't have to have kids. You can just feel good about yourself, wear a fabulous dress, have great friends, and just enjoy your life regardless.

[Kristin Davis]

Absolutely. And I think for me as well, you know, when I read it, you know, 1998, I thought, this is, like nothing else, and I have to be on this thing, and I want to live like this. Yeah. I mean, I didn't have the confidence that the characters had, and I didn't have, like, that much dating. I wasn't, like, bold. Like.

[Heather Graham]

I mean, you had a lot of confidence to act and become a famous actress, but it was acting.

[Kristin Davis]

It was acting.

[Heather Graham]

You know what I'm saying? You're saying you were more shy and, like.

[Kristin Davis]

And more like going home. I was already sober at this point in life, so I wasn't.

[Heather Graham]

Oh, my God, that's so funny. So you were doing that show sober where you guys drank cocktails Exactly. I know.

[Kristin Davis]

And it did come to haunt me in a way. I was telling you about the one picture we were. We were talking about whether we. I don't know how we got into this, but whether we have pictures of ourselves up in our house. Because some actresses do, which I always find super fascinating.

[Heather Graham]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

Because we are kind of. You know, there's a lot of images that get to see.

[Heather Graham]

Well, they're celebrating whatever themselves. But yeah. I've always kind of slightly hidden it. But I also think it's cool people that celebrate it.

[Kristin Davis]

Me too. Because I do think it's like an accomplishment. Like where it's accomplishment very much. It's a hard, hard job. And you know, if you do make it at all and have images taken of yourself, like, put them up. But I never really feel that way. Except for I was telling Heather in my closet I have a framed picture of the COVID of Time magazine that has all four of us on it. And it says, who needs a husband? Question wise.

[Heather Graham]

Cause I can't think of another series. And maybe you've thought about this more than me, but that celebrated single women just having a great time before Sex and the City. Like if you had one. Laverne Shirley, it was like, oh, they're sad. They can't find any guys poor. Like this was like, yeah, we're single and we're fabulous.

[Kristin Davis]

Right, right, right. I mean, there's Mary Richards.

[Heather Graham]

Okay.

[Kristin Davis]

You know, but I mean, it's hard. You have to really like look through decades.

[Heather Graham]

You're talking about Mary Tyler Moore.

[Kristin Davis]

Exactly.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

That's her character's name, Mary Richards. And I feel like, you know, she's throwing her hat in the street. Like she's, you know, kind of fit, fabulous.

[Heather Graham]

And you know, in her, that's probably the only other.

[Kristin Davis]

And then there's the Golden Girls.

[Heather Graham]

Yes, of course.

[Kristin Davis]

Which is a complicated.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Thing to compare us to, I find. But people do, you know, because they dated, I guess I. I think that's also why I'm confused.

[Heather Graham]

I know I never. I watched every episode of Sex and the City.

[Kristin Davis]

Thank you.

[Heather Graham]

Multiple times. It's a very. You know, it's funny cause I didn't at first watch it when it first came out, but I was working in Prague, I was doing a movie and I was missing home and I binge watched like every episode and I was. I fell in love. And I'm friends with Molly Shannon. I think she was on an episode. Yes.

[Kristin Davis]

And she did divorce with Sarah.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, that's right. They're friends. And Stuff. But I remember that, like, because that was before. I feel like, you know, it was harder to, like, watch things on demand. Like, you had to be home to watch it, or you had, like, you know, you could.

[Kristin Davis]

It wasn't on demand.

[Heather Graham]

I can't remember if, like, you could record it on your VCR, but I.

[Kristin Davis]

Remember the TiVo came.

[Heather Graham]

The TiVo. No, but I remember Running Home. I was having dinner with Molly, and we were, like, running home to catch the next episode. We're like, we can't miss it.

[Kristin Davis]

So sweet. I mean, I wish the world was simple like that now.

[Heather Graham]

Now there's so much content.

[Kristin Davis]

There's so much content, but at least.

[Heather Graham]

There'S more content for women. I feel like before, we were kind of just stuck watching, like, three channels, four channels. Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes. No, you're absolutely right. I mean, there are a lot of other shows now with women as leads and with groups of women. Though, like, you have to look hard to find one that is about women celebrating being single. You know what I'm saying?

[Heather Graham]

Yeah. My friend and I are actually working on something like that right now. We're working on a show like that. But, yeah, I feel like now a lot of shows are very dark. It sort of feels like, oh, you can't take it seriously unless there's a murder or unless somebody is, like, super duper dark and screwed up. There's not just, like, you know, just like, having fun and, like, women talking about stuff that you never saw a woman talking about on a TV show, like, farting or like, different kind of sexual craziness, you know?

[Kristin Davis]

Right, right. No, I know, I know. I mean, there was girls after us. That's true.

[Heather Graham]

But that was after.

[Kristin Davis]

It was after. Definitely. And then there was Issa Rae's show, which was great.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, that was great.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. But I mean, there's not that many shows, though, right?

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

No.

[Kristin Davis]

And all those are hbo. And I feel like there was some kind of intention on their part to continue having a version of that show, which I'm thankful for.

[Heather Graham]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

Because we need more versions of that show. So. And let's just talk briefly before we talk about the episode, which there's so much to talk about. Tell us when you came on the show.

[Heather Graham]

Yes. So I'm in an episode. You know what's funny is that a lot of people talk to me about this. Cause, you know, I did a cameo. Yeah. Like, it still comes up that people will be like, oh, my God, I'm watching it. Or you were on Sex and the City. And so. Yeah, I'm friends with Nadia Dejani, and she was the face in that episode, the one who goes, oh, you dated Aiden? Then she makes the face. And she was really good friends with a lot of writers on the show. She was friends with Michael Patrick King, Liz Duchillo. I think she actually helped Liz DiCillo get that job.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, wow.

[Heather Graham]

And all the fabulous people. And so, yeah, so I did a cameo. And Willie Garson was actually a friend of mine. I used to live next door to him. I know. I'm very sad he's not around anymore, but, no, it was fun being on the show. And one of my really fun memories of being on the show was, I think Sarah Jessica's very cool. And then I got to meet her, and she was so kind, and I was asking her, how do you wear these high heels all the time? I find them so uncomfortable. Like, how do you do it? And she was being so sweet. And then she sent me a gift of, like, there was, like, a pedicure foot massage place in the village, and she sent me a gift certificate to go get a foot massage. And I'm like, that was, like, incredibly generous and kind.

[Kristin Davis]

She's a sweetheart.

[Heather Graham]

Yes. It was really sweet.

[Kristin Davis]

That's good. So when you came on, tell me what you do. Cause I can't remember.

[Heather Graham]

Okay, well, basically, the whole episode is about, you know. And I have to rewatch it. I haven't recently seen it, but basically, she's in the bathroom, and my friend Nadia, she plays a booker for Saturday Night Live. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so they say something about Aiden, and she goes, oh, you're Carrie. And then she makes a face like, like, ooh, you really screwed him over, basically. And then Carrie gets paranoid like, oh, my God, does everyone think, am I a jerk? Was I a jerk? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And then at the very end, she meets Nadia in the park with me, and it's like, oh, she's with Heather Graham. She's this booker for Saturday Night Live. And she goes, oh, this is Kara. And I go, and I do the face. And it's all about her just being paranoid. Like, are people gossiping about her being a bad girlfriend to Aiden? Oh, wait, wait, you get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you get there.

[Kristin Davis]

How interesting. I mean, as much as I really. I really, previous to doing this podcast, thought that I was very knowledgeable about our show and all the plots and everything. So not so not because you're in it. You can't focus on everything. You're exhausted.

[Heather Graham]

And when you go back and rewatch, you see how smart the writers were. Like, even all the horse imagery they placed through this episode, like, with your character. And then the final horse imagery at the end, which is so memorable. It was really cool.

[Kristin Davis]

I agree. Michael Patrick's genius. Right. I mean, all the other writers, too.

[Heather Graham]

I mean, they managed to do, like, have a lot of humor, sexy, but also this poignancy and this kind of fresh point of view about women and dating and culturally, like, what we women can hope for.

[Kristin Davis]

Absolutely, absolutely. And also, I mean, yeah, there's just so many details that. That tie in together. And of course, I just remember my own, like. Like, oh, my God, I get to ride a horse. Oh, my God, I've got to go, you know, practice again, because I've ridden before for parts. You know, they always have a lot of stress. The horse wrangler doesn't trust actors. I get it. Right. And you have to go out and prove yourself to the horse wrangler or whatever. And that beautiful bridge that they. Yeah, it was beautiful. I love the park so much. So it was, like, so magical to get to do that.

[Heather Graham]

Yes.

[Kristin Davis]

And I think there was another horse riding scene that they cut, which is fine. It was. I think. I mean, when I look at the episodes, this is also one of those episodes where we're really getting it together writing wise, where.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, because it changed so much from the beginning of the first season to the end of the second. It went from being like, everyone's talking.

[Kristin Davis]

To the camera and there's other people and random people on the street, supposedly, but they're actors. And then now we're like. The voiceover says things like, you know, meanwhile, uptown, and they cut to Samantha. You know, it's very economical in terms of.

[Heather Graham]

It's more focused on the main characters, which I think was better than having a bunch of just, like, people on the street going like, well, sex in New York City, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, the joy of that, though, is also that HBO allowed us to do that. AG's new Fall 2025 collection, from Canvas to Cloth, is inspired by artists and their studios. As someone who plays a character deeply rooted in the art world, it truly feels like something Charlotte would love. The collection blends creativity with wearability, from soft knits and suedes to new denim silhouettes like the Boyfriend Fit for women. It's relaxed, effortless, and so chic. And it's not just for women. AG has great pieces for men, too. Perfect for dressing the whole family. The Fall 2025 collection is available now at AG jeans.com and use code Kristin15 for 15% off your next order. I'm going to be using my own discount, you guys. I'm so excited.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through November 4th. Shop the annual beauty event and save $5 when you spend $25 on select beauty products. Shop in store or online for items like Dove Body Wash, Native Body Wash, Cetaphil gentle skin cleanser, Dr. Squatch body wash, Neutrogena Hydro Boost Water Gel, Dial Liquid Hand Soap and Olay Body wash. And save $5 when you spend $25 or more. Offer ends November 4th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

This is the story of the One as head of maintenance at a concert hall, he knows the show must always go on. That's why he works behind the scenes, ensuring every light is working, the H Vac is humming, and his facility shines with Grainger's supplies and solutions for every challenge he faces. Plus 24. 7 customer support. His venue never misses a beat. Call quickgranger.com or just that box Granger for the ones who get it done. All I know is what I've been told and that to have truth is a whole lie.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Heather Graham]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Kristin Davis]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

They literally made me say that I.

[Kristin Davis]

Took a match and struck and threw it on her.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

They made me say that I poured.

[Kristin Davis]

Gas on her.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

From lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with the one, the only cardi b my marriage.

[Cardi B]

I felt the love dying. I was crying every day. I fell in the deepest depression that.

[Kristin Davis]

I had ever had.

[Jay Shetty]

How do you think you're misunderstood?

[Cardi B]

I'm not this evil, mean person that people think that I am. I'm too compassionate. I have sympathy for that.

[Kristin Davis]

My man, you put so much heart.

[Jay Shetty]

And soul into your work. What's the hardest part for you to take that criticism?

[Cardi B]

This was not given to me. I worked my ass off from it even when I was a stripper. I'mma be the best pole dancer in here.

[Jay Shetty]

When was the moment you felt I did it?

[Cardi B]

I still, to this day don't feel comfortable. I fight every day to keep this level of success because people want to take it from you so bad.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Heather Graham]

For me, the other best thing about the show is you'd have all these moments where people are going through the ups and downs with their romantic. And I loved all the story with you and Kyle McLaughlin and then you're, you know, ending up with Evan and stuff. It was so great. But. But just that you go through all these ups and downs and then you'd think, oh, she's gonna get back together with a guy, like in a. In a romantic comedy. But then they would all just hang out together and have a great time.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. Which.

[Heather Graham]

One of my other favorite ones is the Cock a Doodle Doo, where you guys, at the very end, it ends with you guys and the drag queens on the roof. And it's just like they had a very lovely life, you know, and you guys were all dancing around the roof, so that it was kind of just about, like, the friends enjoying their friendships and just, you know, without being like, oh, the movie needs to end with, like, a wedding and like, a woman with a pregnant belly.

[Kristin Davis]

Absolutely. And I do think that there was this stress, which I totally understand from the fans. When we did end the first series that we were all paired off and people felt like that was a betrayal, and I fully got that. But I also feel like for the writers, you know, at that point, they've been kind of living this, and they felt like Carrie wanted right to be chosen, but she did say the most.

[Heather Graham]

Important relationship is the one you have with yourself.

[Kristin Davis]

She did.

[Heather Graham]

So she ended on that even though everyone was, you know. Right.

[Kristin Davis]

And I know Michael Patrick feels very strongly that that is the through line to all of our, you know, the first show, the films, the second show, that's the through line to all of it. But for me, the other thing about that is, well, you can't really necessarily film someone just being happy with themselves at home as a film. You know what I'm saying? Right. So it manifests itself in many way. Like you want to see them in life and you want to see that get challenged and you want to see that go through things. And how real is it? Is there yet another.

[Heather Graham]

I loved all the plots with you and Kyle MacLachlan where you got him like, masturbating and then you took your wedding pictures and put it over the jug.

[Kristin Davis]

I honestly, some of that is blacked out. I'm going to have to watch it. But it was so stressful because, like, you're really in it. You're really, really in it in so many ways. You know what I'm saying? You're not. Right.

[Heather Graham]

I'm sure from your point of view, your character, it's really stressful and hard, but from an outsider, it's kind of funny. But you know what is my favorite moment of you in the whole series? What that I'm thinking of right now is that when you're like. You're like, where is Mr. Right? I've been trying to find him for so long. And then you're like, my hair hurts. Or what was that line again? Like, what was it?

[Kristin Davis]

I've been dating since I was 15. Where is he? My hair hurts. Or maybe in different order. You know what was really great about that? That was when I remember we haven't gotten to that yet. I think it's season three. And I remember I was so excited. Cause I was getting more storylines right into it. And that was after the Staten island, which I think is the first episode of season three.

[Heather Graham]

Oh, great, the fireman.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. And we're all hungover because I dance on the ship, you know, Right. I'm all crazy. Or maybe in the bar. I threw him in the bar. And I'm like, I'm pretty. I'm a catch. You remember that whole thing? I think it's that, right?

[Heather Graham]

Is it that Easton.

[Kristin Davis]

Easton knows everything. I think it is. Yeah. So then next day I'm hungover, right. So I'm hungover. And they said, you know, you're not going to wear any makeup. And I was like, woohoo. You know, like, it's so exciting. And I remember getting there and thinking, like, I looked really horrible. And I remember. Thank you. Saying, like, you look great. You should never get any hair makeup. And I was like, oh, my God, how amazing. And then the fun part of that was that right after that is when we started getting nominated for awards, right? And when they would nominate me, they would show that clip and I would get to hear the whole audience laugh.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

That's.

[Heather Graham]

I think it's relatable as a woman, you're like. Because I think a lot of times we're fed this idea, like, oh, you're gonna meet this, like, knight in shining armor, like in a fairy tale. Then you're gonna have your be feel so happy and the rest of your life's gonna be happy. And you're like, no, no, no. For sure. I mean, maybe there's some people that have found, like. But nobody has that complete. And nobody.

[Kristin Davis]

It's not gonna. Even if you meet the person, it's not just gonna be happy.

[Heather Graham]

That's not how life is.

[Kristin Davis]

It's such a.

[Heather Graham]

But it's that disillusionment where I think when you're. You grow up thinking, well, if I do this and I try to look really good and I like, I'll find this person and then I'll be so happy and it'll be all done, you know?

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. But it's not all done. That was partly why we wanted to do and just like that. Because even though Charlotte is happily married to Harry and that hasn't changed, it doesn't mean that life is over.

[Heather Graham]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

Like, what if she wants to go back to work? What if there's stuff going on with their kids, you know? Carrie, you know, what if someone that you found and you went through all this hell to be with and then they might die?

[Heather Graham]

Does it happen? I know that happened to my friends. You know, they were so happy and they were kind of like the iconic couple where you're like, look, these people are happy. They have. And then died.

[Kristin Davis]

So sad.

[Heather Graham]

I know.

[Kristin Davis]

And I mean, and then everyone was mad at us. But on the same hand, if you live long enough, this is what starts to happen. This is how life is. You cannot predict it. There's no, like, stress free route, really, for anyone.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

That I know of.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

You just have to find out what you actually really want. Which I think is a very big question. Yeah.

[Heather Graham]

No, I agree. For sure. Yes.

[Kristin Davis]

And I hope that that is what. What. I mean, we're still finding ourselves through this, Right. And I think so interesting to look at Carrie and beg. And this episode where this is when we learn that he's engaged to Natasha and her different struggles with it. And then at the end, you know, and, I mean, we're gonna get there in the rewatch. But the theme of what we're talking about, when she refers to, you know, your girl is lovely. Hubble. Right. Which is the callback to the Way We Were. And Robert read for Barbra Streisand, and he says, I don't get it. And she says, and you never did.

[Heather Graham]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

It is so good.

[Heather Graham]

It's such a good line. Right? You're like, he never got her.

[Kristin Davis]

He doesn't deserve her. You know, I mean, obviously we go through many things later and it works out differently, but, like, in that moment, and he's also wearing this brown suit. And I'm like, ew. I mean, I also think. And not that she hasn't been lauded and awarded, but, like, Sarah Jessica is so good.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, she's great.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, the depth, like, in that scene with him at the end, you know, when she does say, and you never did. Like, she delivers it so light.

[Heather Graham]

Well, it's so relatable. I mean, who hasn't sat around with her girlfriends talking about a breakup and just feeling confused and trying to, like, process it? And then just. I think the moment at the end was her just deciding to feel good about herself, even though that relationship didn't work out and to feel how amazing she is, and she doesn't need that guy to affirm her that she can just absolutely affirm herself. Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

And basically that he didn't even get her.

[Heather Graham]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

You know, like, after two years of her stressing about him and trying so hard and doing this and doing that and trying to get him to talk and, you know, following him around and different things. Right. And then for her to finally go, like, oh, yeah, you're with that beautiful but kind of simple girl and you're wearing a brown suit. You know what I mean? And look, I'm amazing. You know, like, she is. She doesn't have to say it. It's just how it is, Right? I mean, the comparison to the Barbra Streisand Robert Redford relationship in the way we were, we basically say, which I had also kind of forgotten. That whole scene is super interesting with all four of us where we're kind of reenacting and Samantha has not seen.

[Heather Graham]

Hilarious. She turns and looks at the carrot, like, kind of like, what is going on?

[Kristin Davis]

I can't believe they're Singing to me or whatever. But it's also kind of adorable. Cause it's such an unusual position for her to be in. Right. Like, not knowing everything about everything. You know what I mean? But I love when we're retelling the story of it to Samantha and we say, you know, Barbra Streis is there with her curly hair, and she's really complicated, and then he ends up with the other lady who has straight hair. It's really simple, which is obviously Charlotte, but that's fine.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah. But Jesus is, like, totally lovable. And we know her. As opposed to, you know, Bridget Moynihan, who is lovely person. I know her and I work with her. But, you know, they didn't develop that character where you really cared about her or knew her. That right?

[Kristin Davis]

No, absolutely. And that's unfortunate in so many ways. And she. And I talked about that, because I do feel like it was kind of messed up what Carrie did.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, he's true. They both kind of weren't so nice to her.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah, no, no. And she didn't deserve that, you know? But that's partly why we wanted to have her on just like that, too. To kind of have a. Like, give her some credit, you know, that character.

[Heather Graham]

Yes, of course.

[Kristin Davis]

And I do love Bridget. And she played that character so well. And the thing she told me, which was funny, and then we're gonna rewatch. The thing that she told me that was funny was she didn't have any idea what it was. Or they'd give her, like, two pages or that she'd come back. Like, they'd just call her and say, like, are you available? And she'd say, yes. There was no contract.

[Cardi B]

Wow.

[Heather Graham]

So they didn't let her read the whole script. That is horrible as an actor.

[Kristin Davis]

I know. And look at how great she was. I know.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, right?

[Kristin Davis]

Like, I think she just brought.

[Heather Graham]

She's kind of. I mean, she's so beautiful, and she has a real elegance. So if. If you were dating a guy and then he started dating her, and especially if, you know, she's younger or whatever, as in the story.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Heather Graham]

That would be so threatening and intimidating, you know?

[Kristin Davis]

And also, she's just so different. She's so cool. Perfectly. There's, like, a perfect coolness about her.

[Heather Graham]

You know, she fits perfectly into the WASP Y world of.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes. I mean, you can see why. You know what I mean? Which is. I mean, it was perfect casting, but also, she's just so good, you know? And she brought that, which was amazing. All right, let's do this technical rewatch part. That was really fun. Okay, cool. Okay. The X and the City. Okay. This is fun because a lot. Everyone has an amazing storyline, which is hard to do.

[Heather Graham]

Really hard.

[Kristin Davis]

With four, you know, leads. Right. So we begin. I didn't remember any of this. Carrie and Miranda are out there. They're at a bodega. They're debating does she buy the five dollar flowers that last three days or the ten of the flowers that last five days. It's all very funny and relatable and real. And then all of a sudden, Miranda looks down the street and sees Steve coming with the basketball. It is so adorable. And like a little child, she turns and she runs away, which is so cute. And that's when you kind of really realize. And again, I'm rewatching this whole relationship and thinking how incredible it is. So beautifully written to Steve. Miranda.

[Heather Graham]

That's so lovable. And it's cool how Miranda is like, she's kind of this, like, strong career woman, but then she has this other side, which is like, you know, it's adorable, definitely.

[Kristin Davis]

And I think you really see that clearly here. Cause they've been broken up, right? So she's seeing him and her response is to literally run with Carrie, which is so funny. And not Miranda, like. But that's kind of how, you know that this is not her regular relationship. This is something more. And she's just struggling within. Like, what does that mean for me, you know?

[Heather Graham]

Cause she thinks I was so rooting for Steve when I was watching the show.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

Oh, my God.

[Heather Graham]

I mean, who couldn't like Steve, you know?

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, I was not rooting for Steve originally. I don't know what I thought. I just thought, like, I just thought it was odd. But when I look back on it, I'm blown over, number one, by how incredible. And number two, it's just beautiful writing.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Like, they're different, but they're complimentary. And that's what she means. She needs some grounding and some optimism.

[Heather Graham]

He's so sweet.

[Kristin Davis]

So sweet. And just cut through her, like, kind of, you know, her tough attitude.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Her shtick. You know what I'm saying? And I think, like, you know, I do feel sad when I look back because I know what's coming, which people definitely had a lot of feelings about.

[Heather Graham]

I know it is sad.

[Kristin Davis]

It is sad. But I mean, sometimes things don't work out.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

AG's new Fall 2025 collection from Canvas to Cloth is inspired by artists and their studios. As someone who plays a character deeply rooted in the art world, it truly feels like something Charlotte would love. The collection blends creativity with wearability, from soft knits and suedes to new denim silhouettes like the Boyfriend Fit for women. It's relaxed, effortless and so chic. And it's not just for women. AG has great pieces for men, too, perfect for dressing the whole family. The Fall 2025 collection is available now at aggeens.com and use code KRISTIN15 for 15% off your next order. I'm going to be using my own discount, you guys. I'm so excited.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this fall. Take care of the little ones in the family with Baby Club Savings now through November 4th. Spend $25 on select Baby Club products and save $5. Shop for items like Pedia Shore bottles, Pedialyte powder packs, Huggies baby wipes, Huggies diapers, Gerber puffs and Gerber pouches. And save $5 when you buy $25 or more on participating products. Offer ends November 4th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

All I know is what I've been told and that to have Truth is a whole lie.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Kristin Davis]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Kristin Davis]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

They literally made me say that I.

[Kristin Davis]

Took a match and struck and threw it on her.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

They made me say that I poured.

[Kristin Davis]

Gas on her.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

From Lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go go in order to find someone to blame.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcast Podcasts.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers are into true crime, sports, comedy culture, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. And all this reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for you. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart streaming radio and podcasting. Let us show you at iheartadvertising.com that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844-IHEART. One more time, call 844-844-iHEART and get podcasting working for you.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the on purpose podcast. I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with the one, the only cardi b my marriage.

[Cardi B]

I felt the love dying. I was crying, and every day I fell in the deepest depression that I had ever had.

[Jay Shetty]

How do you think you're misunderstood?

[Cardi B]

I'm not this evil, mean person that people think that I am. I'm too compassionate. I have sympathy for that.

[Kristin Davis]

My man, you put so much heart.

[Jay Shetty]

And soul into your work. What's the hardest part for you to take that criticism?

[Cardi B]

This was not given to me. I work worked my ass off for me even when I was a stripper. I'm gonna be the best pole dancer in here.

[Jay Shetty]

When was the moment you felt I did it?

[Cardi B]

I still, to this day, don't feel comfortable. I fight every day to keep this level of success because people want to take it from you so bad.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kristin Davis]

All right, back to the episode. Back to the episode. This is the funny thing, too, about looking back. Have had this joy of getting to create these characters for so incredibly long, and it's crazy to think that this aired in 1999.

[Heather Graham]

That is wild. I mean, that's so cool that it culturally is still. People are still watching it.

[Kristin Davis]

It's so true. I have a question. So I always had a house here in la, and I would go to work in New York, and then I would come back here to rest. Right. And then in between seasons, definitely. And one time, I think I was at a Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf, possibly on Sunset Boulevard. And I think you were there, and I think you were there with Heath Ledger.

[Heather Graham]

Yes, I dated him. And in fact, I think we might have watched the show together, and I think he actually really liked it. I remember us watching it and him being like, I can relate to this. Cause I was like, I don't know. Cause sometimes you try to get guys to watch it with you, and some guys loved it, but other guys would be like, I don't know. That's a girl show.

[Kristin Davis]

Of course.

[Heather Graham]

But no, I remember watching the show with him.

[Kristin Davis]

We were standing there in line, and I'm by myself. And you know that thing, like, when you're newly famous and you're like, oh, my God, they're famous and you're looking at them, but you.

[Heather Graham]

No, I still about you. I, like, forget that I'm fam. Like, oh, my God, I'm talking to Charlotte, you know? Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

At the time, you two were just like this ray of light in this coffee bean.

[Heather Graham]

I do remember that, actually.

[Kristin Davis]

And you were, like, kind of, like, giggling and touching each other, and I was just like. Like, just like. Like hold it together. Like, I was just you and you were.

[Heather Graham]

I wish you would have talked to us.

[Kristin Davis]

I know. I wish I would have, too. It's one of those times where you're like, darn, I should not have been shy. But also, I felt protective. Like, I didn't want to call attention to you because you seemed very free.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

Aww.

[Heather Graham]

Do you know what I mean? That's nice.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Heather Graham]

I was very in love with him.

[Kristin Davis]

I can only imagine.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, I know. He's kind of amazing.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, God. I mean, and the two of you looked so similar and beautiful. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Heather Graham]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

I was just like, wow. I'm, like, bowled over by these people, and I have to just stand here and act.

[Heather Graham]

I have a lot of cool pictures of when I dated him. And I thought at one point, like, maybe I should do, like, a photo album. But I think people would love to see that. I'm not really sure, because I don't really. Then they were like, you have to get the family permission. But I have some really cool pictures of when we dated.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, of course you would want to be respectful, but at the same time, like, what an incredible light and gift he was.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, he was.

[Kristin Davis]

And such a sad, sad, you know, too, too short. His life was cut too short by pure accident, which was, like, so horrible and tragic. But I do remember that. And I had forgotten. I was gonna ask you before we started if it was okay. But I'm sure.

[Heather Graham]

No, I. I feel proud that I dated him. Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

For sure.

[Jay Shetty]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

What a special story.

[Heather Graham]

It was fun. Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

I'm glad. And you guys look so.

[Heather Graham]

I wish he was still alive. That would be nice, you know.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. I know it's terrible and so talented.

[Heather Graham]

It is. But some of these really bright lights kind of, you know.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Heather Graham]

Don't get to live so long, you know, if you look at that way I do. Iconic, you know, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, you know, different. Amazing.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, there's so many artists.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

That's why when you think about Robert Redford, it's really amazing.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah. He had a long. I mean, if you die when you're like 90, that's a good life. And you weren't a sleep. You didn't have cancer. You didn't like suffer like through Alzheimer's or something like that. Totally.

[Kristin Davis]

It's so incredible. It's so incredible. And he obviously deserves that. And I hope he's, you know, with the trees. Totally. Right.

[Heather Graham]

I did meet him once at Sundance.

[Kristin Davis]

Did you?

[Heather Graham]

He had a little thing around the MeToo time and he had me come and talk about it. And I just remember he was really respectful. And he has that amazing energy where it just feels like he can quietly be there, be this presence and you can really just feel this amazing energy.

[Kristin Davis]

Amazing.

[Heather Graham]

And of course, out of Africa too. That's another amazing Robert Redford movie. Do you wanna hear the funniest thing? I rewatched it recently. Cause I went to Africa for the first time, which. Oh, by the way, you did that show in Africa.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, I've been so many times.

[Heather Graham]

I was jealous. I'm one of the producers I work with. I'm like, what an incredible job. You got to go on a safari in Africa.

[Kristin Davis]

But I mean, you worked with a producer there who was on my movie. Yeah, Flocky.

[Heather Graham]

No, no, not the producer there. He lives here. What's his name again?

[Kristin Davis]

It's fine. Brad.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, whatever. Yeah, Brad.

[Kristin Davis]

Brad.

[Heather Graham]

Brad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

He's a trip.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, he is. But no. So I rewatched out of Africa and then I was going back and reading about it, it. And, and I was reading that there were these reviews when it came out where they were trashing the movie, can you believe? And they were trashing his performance. And I was thinking that's why you can't take any reviews that seriously. Cuz it's like, you know, oh, yes, that was an amazing performance. He's like an iconic character in that movie.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. And her as well. And you know, they didn't think she was sexy enough to get that part. She had to go buy a push up bra and like tart herself up. Up for Sydney Pollock. What on earth? Our business though.

[Heather Graham]

Sydney Pollock has done some great movies. I mean, he's incredible. Incredible.

[Kristin Davis]

I'm just saying.

[Heather Graham]

No, but it is bizarre to learn.

[Kristin Davis]

About that do that, you know, and that then people criticize Redford.

[Heather Graham]

Oh, and they were talking about how the movie wasn't good and criticizing that he didn't do. I'm like, what are they talking about?

[Kristin Davis]

People are insane.

[Heather Graham]

I mean.

[Kristin Davis]

No, that's actually why I ended up having my obsession. I mean, it was the leaping off point of me wanting to go and you know, then wow, you know, life.

[Heather Graham]

Unfolding, watching that guy.

[Kristin Davis]

Like, I gotta go to Africa.

[Heather Graham]

That looks so.

[Kristin Davis]

Definitely. And it is, it is. We're going to talk about that later. Okay, back to the episode. All right. We're on the street. We see Steve, he's adorable in his basketball outfit. And Miranda runs off, which is kind of funny. So then they go to.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

We.

[Kristin Davis]

We all have work together. We're having a. Basically we're in the classic coffee shop scene now. We have it established. For a while we were in different restaurants. Now we have our set were in the scene. Those days would be very long days, as you can imagine.

[Heather Graham]

So you guys always ate at the same restaurant?

[Kristin Davis]

We did.

[Heather Graham]

It was set interesting as a set.

[Kristin Davis]

Previous to us building our coffee shop set, we were in different assorted places. But then we got our set and we could just be there for 18 hours and film every angle with beautiful lighting. So that was great. The big thing that I love to think about from this and I think it's still a really big issue is is can people be friends with exes. And in general, I think there's also a subtext of can you have guy friends as a woman? You know, straight woman, I guess I should say. I don't know if that matters or not. But you know, and basically Samantha is like, women are for friendships and men are for. Samantha lover. Yes, very Samantha. I know, but I mean, I personally love my male friends.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

Right.

[Heather Graham]

I have one of my best friends is a guy. He gives me hope and like the whole gender. He's one of the nicest, best people I've ever known. He is like a brother. I love his wife, I love their daughter. So I think for sure they can be friends.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. And I think it's important.

[Heather Graham]

Yes.

[Kristin Davis]

I would go so close in terms.

[Heather Graham]

Of Being friends with your ex, I think it's possible, but maybe that's slightly more complicated. But being friends with a guy, like, right.

[Kristin Davis]

100% right. I mean, I think ex. I think you have to be careful that you're being fully honest with yourself about what you're doing. Right. Like, are you really just hoping that you're gonna get back together? For me, it would be. Am I still codependently taking care of this person?

[Heather Graham]

Interesting. In which case I can totally relate to some codependency things. Yes.

[Kristin Davis]

Then I have to cut that off. I don't want to. I never want to leave anyone.

[Heather Graham]

It's sad what they talk about in the episode. Like, why should you throw away. You spent so much time with this person and then it's not working. You're like. And then you just throw them away and never talk to them again. That's also.

[Kristin Davis]

I agree, I agree. But that's also how. How I've gotten into some not great situations where like I'm still on the phone hearing about whatever, you know what I mean? And I don't really have energy for that.

[Heather Graham]

Okay, yeah, that sounds bad.

[Kristin Davis]

Why am I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why am I taking care of this person emotionally?

[Heather Graham]

That's bad. What an occasional happy birthday, you know. Oh my God, I'm so glad you're doing well.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, I always want to be civil. I mean, there's very few that I wouldn't want to be civil to. Gosh.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah. So you're not exactly like Charlotte. No, no, no.

[Kristin Davis]

But I definitely am.

[Heather Graham]

Are you a Charlotte? No. I am. That was good.

[Kristin Davis]

That was smooth. I am like half Charlotte, half Carrie.

[Jay Shetty]

Really?

[Heather Graham]

That's what I would say. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Should we just ask you now too? Cause I'm curious.

[Heather Graham]

Well, I kind of. It is sort of. When I was younger, I think I did relate more to the other characters. Cause I think I was rebelling against a traditional upbringing, you know. But I do think now that I have incorporated more Charlotte into my personality. Okay, yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

But when you say other characters, do you mean Saman? Do you mean Miranda?

[Heather Graham]

I mean, I can relate to Carrie. I think of Carrie as kind of like a romantic who has like, you know, her love life is kind of going through all these ups and downs.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Heather Graham]

I could relate to Miranda who's like kind of a career woman who's just like, I want to have a career. I want to be independent. I want to try to achieve things. I want to be self sufficient. I related to that and I could relate to just. I Mean, Samantha just being. I mean. I mean, I was never that wild, but I definitely, you know, was a little wild.

[Kristin Davis]

Sure, sure, sure. I mean, what's great about Saman that she just owns it, you know?

[Heather Graham]

She does. No, I guess probably that an alter ego part of me would have loved to be more wild, but do you.

[Kristin Davis]

Remember your Lenny Kravitz American Woman that was like, so powerful and so in a Samantha vein, you know what I mean?

[Heather Graham]

Well, no, I think when I grew up, I was a nerdy kid.

[Kristin Davis]

Awkward.

[Heather Graham]

I was not seen as pretty.

[Kristin Davis]

What?

[Heather Graham]

So I did feel like as an actor, I was pretending to be this, like, sexual. When in reality I was pretty much just like I had boyfriends and, you know, whatever. But then I felt like I played up this other side, which is like this sexual art. Alter Ego. Do you know that song called Alter Ego?

[Kristin Davis]

That's amazing.

[Heather Graham]

No, I do feel like I acted out like an alternate side of myself.

[Kristin Davis]

What about Roller Girl?

[Heather Graham]

Right. So that's that, Right? That's.

[Kristin Davis]

What an incredible performance.

[Heather Graham]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, I loved that performance. And sometimes I just think about Hugh bashing that guy.

[Heather Graham]

Oh, my God. That was a fun scene. I want to do more anime scenes like that.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

Right?

[Kristin Davis]

I want to do scenes like that too. You know, like, we need places to put.

[Heather Graham]

I just. There were two skates we used. I donated one pair to the Academy Museum. And then this other pair was bought by my friend, this guy, this super successful director, Mike Flanagan. I'm working with him on this new Carrie TV show. But he bought the main pair that I wore. He just bought them because he owns all this movie memorabilia. So he owns the roller skates and an outfit. It's really fun. He sent me a picture. He's like, is this what you wore in the movie? And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, okay, I'm buying it.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay. Sometimes I wonder, you know what I mean? Like, sometimes. Because there's like six tutus that supposedly were all in the beginning. I know.

[Heather Graham]

In the credits sequence.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. Everyone tells me. When they tell me that they have it, I'm like, okay, wow. Because I think Michael Patrick has it hanging on as well. But okay.

[Heather Graham]

Wow.

[Kristin Davis]

You know, maybe there was more than one.

[Heather Graham]

Maybe.

[Kristin Davis]

Maybe. Who knows? But I just had such a flashback of that part and the joy of.

[Heather Graham]

Watching that, you know, that was really fun.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, so good. So good. Okay, back to the show.

[Heather Graham]

Okay, I think I'm distracting you. I should just stop talking.

[Kristin Davis]

No, it's great.

[Heather Graham]

Are you kidding?

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, It's a joy. It's a joy to be having you here and talking about it.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, it's fun. No, honestly, it's really fun because I can't even tell you how much the show really did mean to me. So thank you.

[Kristin Davis]

It's incredible to be part of something that means things to people.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, it is. It is.

[Kristin Davis]

It is the best part of our business. Business, for sure. It pretty much evens out all the.

[Heather Graham]

Hard part, don't you think? Yeah, it does. It does. It really does.

[Kristin Davis]

And we're just so lucky. Okay, so here we are, we're at the table, we're discussing, you know, and Carrie says it kind of a deep thing, which is what you were just referring to. She says, if you love someone and you break up, where does the love go? And Samantha says something, like, to the other girlfriend. But, I mean, really, it is a deep question. Like, if you've really spent time with that person and gotten to know that person and kind of, you know, like, had a really deep exchange with that person, like, then it's just over. Bam. Like, how?

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

Why?

[Kristin Davis]

You know? But this has also led me down some bad roads. So this. I relate to this. I relate to this.

[Heather Graham]

I want to hear all those stories.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah, all the stories. But, I mean, I'm just. I'm so back to the Charlotte part, the part of me. And it is kind of what you referred to about Carrie being a romantic. She is a romantic too, right? In her own way. Like, it looks different for her. Thank you. That looks for Charlotte.

[Heather Graham]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

Charlotte is much more of kind of what society tells you. Like, marriage, family, kids, puffy wedding dress. You know, blah, blah, blah. I never had that. But I do have the romantic side where, like, it's hard for me to let go. You know, I believe in love. You know, I'm, you know, might believe too much. You know, when all the signs would be telling me, like, get out.

[Heather Graham]

Like, I can go into a fantasy in my head and, like, oh, well, you know, not always see reality 100%.

[Kristin Davis]

As can I. As can I. And I mean, I think that's important to be able to do that. Certainly for our jobs, but I think also for life. Right. Because if you can't, like, kind of imagine the possibilities, then it's just hard. Life is hard, you know?

[Heather Graham]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

So I kind of have one foot in both. Both camps. But sometimes when I'm watching back and I look at everyone's point of view and then those scenes where we do all have four very distinct points of view. I can kind of go with everybody.

[Heather Graham]

You know what I mean?

[Kristin Davis]

Of course.

[Heather Graham]

I'm like, oh, yeah, she's got a good.

[Kristin Davis]

And then I'm like, oh, no, no, she's right, too. And then I'm like, oh, yeah, we're all right. Which is kind of good. That's good writing. Right. So then. Oh, we have such a great, great shot of Sarah Jessica. I love to watch the. The shots of Sarah Jessica evolve over time of her writing.

[Heather Graham]

Okay.

[Kristin Davis]

And her wearing a sort of different underwear. And she's so good with her body. And in this one, it's hot, but it's just a beautiful. If you look at the beginning of our show and then, like, where it goes back visually.

[Heather Graham]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

It's just incredible. And again, that was HBO allowing us and our DPs. And I remember different directors coming in and kind of, like, upping the game, you know, and wardrobes, of course. Totally. But also, we had to get more money, you know? Like, when Molly came on, she reminded me that we had $10,000 for the whole first season. What?

[Heather Graham]

How did you guys do it?

[Kristin Davis]

Don't know. Don't know.

[Heather Graham]

Must have got a bunch of free stuff.

[Kristin Davis]

We didn't, because no one knew who we were and what we were doing. The Fendi Baguette was the first one.

[Heather Graham]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

And that was Sarah Jessica kind of, you know, just using her relationships and getting one. And then it, you know, went from there.

[Heather Graham]

Wow.

[Kristin Davis]

And she would. She would so sweetly make so much effort to show it. Like, I remember doing scenes where she put it on her plate.

[Heather Graham]

That is so funny.

[Kristin Davis]

And we'd be like, are you sure? She's like, just till the food comes.

[Heather Graham]

I remember, like, the episode that I did that she was in. She was pregnant, and so she was trying to hide her pregnant bell Kelly with a purse. And that was hard because she had to hold a purse in front of her stomach.

[Kristin Davis]

It so didn't work because I think she brought her. Her Kelly or Birkin or whatever, and she. She had it and it worked. But then the sun would hit and her shadow on the street would be pregnant.

[Heather Graham]

I know that was good for her, though, you know?

[Kristin Davis]

Of course. Of course. Good for her, and good for them for trying. And then at a certain point, they were like, everybody go home.

[Heather Graham]

Everybody just go home. Pretty obviously, you know.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. And also, Cynthia was pregnant at that point, too. Yeah, a little bit later, but the same year. So they were like, just go home.

[Heather Graham]

Right, right.

[Kristin Davis]

We'll. We'll see you in a year. And it all worked out. At the time it seemed very stressful, but it all worked out okay. Heather Graham is just too much fun so she is going to continue breaking down X and the City with us. So please come back and hear part two with Heather Graham of Are you a Charlotte? As someone who's played a gallerist and spent years walking through the art world in Heels, AG's new fall collection, From Canvas to Cloth, honestly feels like something Charlotte York would live in. It's inspired by artists and their studios think rich textures, beautiful craftsmanship and pieces that feel both refined and expressive. Very Gallery opening in Chelsea meets Weekend in the Hamptons the New Boyfriend Fit jeans are my absolute favorite. They're slouchy in just the right way, flattering but relaxed and go with everything. And the collection includes soft corduroys, my favorite suede, and luxury knits that feel so timeless. AG also leads the way in lower impact denim production, which makes me feel even better about investing in these pieces because style and sustainability should go hand in hand. The From Canvas to Cloth collection is out [e-mail] use code KRISTEN15 to take an exclusive 15% off your next order, even if you've already purchased from the site before. You guys, this means I can use my own code and I'm also wearing the Boyfriend jeans right now. Love them so much.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

We know that pet parent guilt is real. Leaving too long, playing too little. New homes, new babies, Waking them up when they look so comfy. Running out of patience. Running out of treats, Running the vacuum. You can only do so much. That's why there's hills. Science led nutrition to help you give more love than humanly possible because you're only human. There's hills. Find the right [e-mail] ScienceDoesMore.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journal journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Various voices from Graves County podcast and ads]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Narrator (Graves County podcast)]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Heather Graham]

This is an iHeart podcast.