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- [00:00]
Mark Seale
Marc I'm Mark Seale.
- [00:01]
Nathan King
And I'm Nathan King.
- [00:02]
Mark Seale
This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli.
- [00:04]
A.J. Jacobs
The five families did not want us.
- [00:06]
Mark Seale
To shoot that picture.
- [00:07]
Nathan King
This podcast is based on my co host Mark Seale's best selling book of the same title that features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Caan, Talia Shire and many others.
- [00:19]
Mark Seale
Yes, that was a real horse's head.
- [00:21]
Nathan King
Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the cannoli starting February 19th at on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:31]
Jon Stewart
Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors, and with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:09]
A.J. Jacobs
Dressing. Dressing.
- [01:12]
Mark Seale
Oh, French dressing.
- [01:13]
A.J. Jacobs
Exactly.
- [01:15]
Mark Seale
That's good.
- [01:16]
A.J. Jacobs
I'm A.J. jacobs and my current obsession is puzzles and that has given birth to my podcast the Puzzler.
- [01:24]
Mark Seale
Something about Mary Poppins?
- [01:25]
A.J. Jacobs
Exactly.
- [01:26]
Jon Stewart
This is fun.
- [01:27]
A.J. Jacobs
You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:40]
Mary Kay McBrayer
I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. This season explores women from the 19th century to now. Women who were murderers and scammers, but also women who were photojournalists, lawyers, writers and more. This podcast tells more than just the brutal, gory details of horrific acts I delve into the good, the bad, the difficult, and all the nuance I can find. Because these are the stories that we need to know to understand the intersection of society, justice and the fascinating workings of the human psyche. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:41]
Kristin Davis
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlo? Hi. Hi everybody. Welcome back to Are youe a Charlotte? Today we are going to talk about episode 104. It's in season one and it's called Valley of the 20 something guys. And I love this episode so much. And I have a fantastic guest with me today. His name is Blakely Thornton. He's a super fan and I love to follow him on Instagram. He's very funny and TikTok. And he is his. How he's known is your Internet's mean best friend, which I find hysterical because I don't really perceive you as mean.
- [03:21]
Mark Seale
I don't either. Like, honestly, that was. That was a headline that Hunger magazine gave me when I was like, oh, wow. This is my first inference of, like, speaking as yourself in an interview. Like, oh, that's what. That's what you got from that.
- [03:33]
Kristin Davis
That's super interesting. Okay. Because I personally would not describe you as that way, though. What I do love so much about you, many things. First of all, super smart, extremely insightful, very funny. But also you just say it like how you see it, and there's not a lot of kind of layers or nonsense. You're not trying to please anybody. And that's very refreshing and wonderful. So thank you.
- [03:56]
Mark Seale
I think my brand is. I call it see something, say something. I'm like, what? Oh, all right.
- [04:01]
Kristin Davis
I love it, I love it. That's what we need at this time, I think, in Internet land. Because, like, to me, you're not mean, you're just honest.
- [04:09]
Mark Seale
Yeah. I'm like, I think there's no value. I always say, like, there's no value in not calling the thing the thing. Because I'm like, what are we getting out of it? This. That's how we got here.
- [04:17]
Kristin Davis
We were all like, 100%, it's okay.
- [04:19]
Mark Seale
Let'S use euphemisms like, well, now.
- [04:21]
Kristin Davis
Right, right, right. But also, I feel like that created this land where, like, people could be mean. And because they were saying things kind of like, honestly, people were like, amazing, when in fact. No, not really. They're really mean, you know, but also, I think just the joy of people speaking freely. People respond to that.
- [04:41]
Mark Seale
You know, I try to, like, infuse some joy into it, like a laugh and crying, like, yeah, oh, this is funny.
- [04:49]
Kristin Davis
You do, you do. My 13 year old loves you.
- [04:52]
Mark Seale
Oh, thank you.
- [04:53]
Kristin Davis
I know she doesn't have Instagram, so I have to show her. So I pick and choose based on the subject matter, you know? And she was like, out of everyone I've had, she was like, ah, it was so cute. It was so, so cute. So anyway, she wishes she was here. She wanted to skip school. But when I told her, you're on Zoom, she was like, oh, okay.
- [05:14]
Mark Seale
Yeah.
- [05:14]
Kristin Davis
But she will be listening. Yeah. So. Hi, Gemma, you're listening. Hello.
- [05:19]
Mark Seale
Hello, Gemma. A pleasure, A pleasure to meet you through the Internet.
- [05:22]
Kristin Davis
There you go. One day. One day in person. One day in person.
- [05:24]
Blakely Thornton
All right.
- [05:25]
Kristin Davis
This is so exciting because I am really, really curious what you're going to be saying, and I really don't know. So let me just say that to everybody. It's not like we. We have had no contact other than me following him, basically. And we do know, I think, you know Molly, right? You know, our costume designer or Danny.
- [05:43]
Mark Seale
I've actually visited the whole archive in Queens. Like, for me, as a young little, like, elder millennial gay boy, I was like, I have. I remember these moments because I'm much more familiar with the series than I should be. Like, I remember the first episode I saw was, I think, like, season one, like when you guys are the Hamptons and like, Carrie finds out big dating someone else. She's on the cowboy hat on the beach top. I was a good one in seventh grade, but for some reason, like, me and all my straight football friends, like, it was so. I didn't know Sex and the City was even, like, a gay thing. But, like, we all would watch it together every. I watched the series finale. We all were like, shut up. Turned off basketball and watched the Carrie in Paris Part 2 episode. And all these men are married with children. I don't know how I feel like, young boys, like, don't have that learned misogyny yet, but, like, Sex in the City. Sex in the City, in the OC And I went to, like, an all boys prep school, was like, wow, that was the show.
- [06:38]
Kristin Davis
No way. Okay, this. You're, like, breaking new ground in terms of my perception of who was watching the show, because I had no idea that was happening either.
- [06:47]
Mark Seale
Well, I don't think it should have been like, if our parents had a handle, like we were 12. Like, what is that? What's funky tasting spunk? And it's like a bunch of, like, teenage boys.
- [06:57]
Kristin Davis
Valid question. Really valid question. But I don't think that's a bad thing.
- [07:00]
Mark Seale
No, right.
- [07:02]
Kristin Davis
Like, that might have been educational.
- [07:04]
Mark Seale
I think it was very. I think, honestly, all the guys that watched it, like, were better with their girlfriends because they kind of had a more advanced.
- [07:11]
Kristin Davis
Oh, I love that.
- [07:12]
Mark Seale
What the female experience was.
- [07:14]
Kristin Davis
Oh, my God. Okay.
- [07:16]
Mark Seale
Like, they're like, oh, they kind of had the inside track.
- [07:20]
Kristin Davis
That's amazing. That's amazing and wonderful. I mean, whenever Men, like, there was a time when it was predominantly women would talk to us like, oh, we love you. Then sometimes men would be like, oh, you know, my girlfriend, you know, makes me watch it. And we were like, that's okay.
- [07:35]
Mark Seale
Cool.
- [07:36]
Kristin Davis
However, you know, and we were always, like, secretly like, that great. You know, like, thank God the girlfriend's making him watch it, because that's gonna help, you know, that's gonna help the meeting of, you know, the. The. The sexes over. The divide. The great divide. So I'm excited to hear. But you were in seventh grade, so that. That is really interesting. Okay.
- [07:55]
Mark Seale
Yes. I should. I should not have been again. It was my. My. I think the series finale aired like, the fall of my. Like, the fall of my senior year in high school. I think it was, like, November 2003. So, like, I remember that. I remember Carrie. Yeah, phone.
- [08:13]
Kristin Davis
I remember that, too. What did you think of Baryshnikov? And then we'll. We're going to go backwards in time. But just curious, because I've been hearing some interesting takes on Baryshnikov.
- [08:21]
Mark Seale
Always interesting to see how you felt originally when you see it. And then going and rewatching it. I think they both end just like that. And then rewatching the original show on Netflix, everybody is kind of, like, contextualized differently.
- [08:33]
Kristin Davis
Yeah.
- [08:34]
Mark Seale
Baryshnikov, like, I feel like I've dated men like him that are, like, thoroughly. I've dated a Parisian man who had, you know, a lot of things and was significantly older because I'm 39. So I'm gonna guess what about Carrie's age at the end of the show? Right. I don't know. I feel like he's interesting. He was never the end game. I don't love how I feel like he was almost like. I'm looking for the word. Not a gaslighter, but almost like, very much like a love bomber and then, like, abandoned.
- [09:03]
Kristin Davis
Well, like, to me, he's just super aloof. Like. Like, he makes Mr. Biggs seem like he's not aloof, which is interesting by comparison.
- [09:10]
Mark Seale
Mr. Big's like. He's amazing. But then you go back to early Mr. Big. I'm like, this man is a. He was a f boy before there was a word for it.
- [09:17]
Kristin Davis
I mean, is he. Okay, so can you please, please define boy for me? Okay. Because I'm confused.
- [09:23]
Mark Seale
I think a boy is just like a man who has a little bit of Peter Pan syndrome, has money, but also kind of like, he is consistent in his inconsistency and I find that is very big for Carrie in the first few seasons. He's like, let's go, like, even this episode, let's go to drinks, a drink thing. Let's go to this. Let's do that.
- [09:42]
Kristin Davis
Right?
- [09:43]
Mark Seale
But for me, like, just a man, that gives you red flags, but right after the red flag is like an immediate excuse to keep you confused.
- [09:50]
Kristin Davis
Okay, then I totally, totally get it. See, I was confused by the boy part. I thought that the boy part meant like, like an unemployed, you know, like boy. Like a pool boy. I don't know what I thought in my brain.
- [10:02]
Mark Seale
A man who's in it to, like, keep you emotionally tethered.
- [10:06]
Kristin Davis
Oh, okay. Well, I know all about, like, and this.
- [10:09]
Mark Seale
Go back to the episode. But like, even, like the phones in episode. In this episode.
- [10:14]
Blakely Thornton
Yeah.
- [10:15]
Mark Seale
I feel like I grew up on. This is the New York I was promised and then didn't get.
- [10:19]
Kristin Davis
I know. I'm really sorry. I feel that way for so many people. But when they're actually in the bar and there are multiple people on a landline on an old fashioned phone, what is happening?
- [10:29]
Mark Seale
I wanted to be. I want to go back to that. Like, I, like, I want to go to there. Like, I got the end of it. Like, I don't remember indie sleaze. Like 2010. It was right before everybody had a phone on their. A camera on their phone. So it was still kind of like a little bit.
- [10:44]
Kristin Davis
Very different times.
- [10:45]
Mark Seale
There was this club called Dark Room where like, the bouncer was a drug dealer and you'd see like the whole cast of Gossip Girl. And like, you can't do, like, I had like a fight with Sebastian Stan over a slice of pizza. Like, you can't have that anymore because.
- [10:57]
Kristin Davis
No, it's so sad because there's just.
- [10:59]
Mark Seale
There's surveillance. Everybody's.
- [11:00]
Kristin Davis
Yeah, you can't do nothing. I know, it's terrible. But when you see the bars, because I've been sober a long time, right. So I wasn't really going out except when we would film at these places. Quite sure. Especially in this particular episode. Valley of the 20something guys. I don't know where they are. Like, do those look like real bars to you?
- [11:19]
Mark Seale
I feel like New York bars. There's a. There's a consistency where there's always kind of like a hook. Whether it's like, you know, I feel like Samantha through the PR lens. Like, remember when you guys, like, there's bed. There's.
- [11:29]
Kristin Davis
Yes.
- [11:30]
Mark Seale
Sushi, there's, you know. Yeah, yeah, all those things. And I feel like, for me, like, that bar could come back now because I feel like there's a certain, like, movement from. Especially from, like, Gen Z and people my age that are just tired of it. Like, I would go to a bar where, like, you had to check your phone at the door and, like, if you needed something, there were literal, like.
- [11:48]
Kristin Davis
Rotary phones, which would be amazing. I would go, we should open.
- [11:52]
Mark Seale
That would be the hottest club in, like, Tribeca for, like, a year, you know.
- [11:55]
Kristin Davis
It would be fantastic. I agree. It would be fantastic. I mean, my feeling now, and I don't know if this is shaped by where we film for and just like that. Because when we came back to do. And just like that, it was post Covid. Like, just barely post Covid, right? So anywhere wanted us. Like, it was shocking to us because it used to be that we'd have to kind of beg and plead and go through all these, you know, hoops and pay huge amounts of money to get places because they were like, we don't know who you guys are in the beginning, right? But now the restaurants and the bars were like, please, please come. You know? So we're filming at Daniel. Like, we never could have gotten into Daniel, you know. It's crazy. So we're filming it extremely posh, dreamily beautiful places. Not where we used to film, you know?
- [12:38]
Mark Seale
Well, now also with the full circle ness of, like, again, like, of Sex in the City, of the movies of. And just like that. I feel like people who run these places have to be firmly aware of the cachet they get by going there. So it's like 360 experience or 180 for you guys, of being, like, like, 1998 to, like, 2024. Being like, oh, please come film at our hotel. Use the penthouse. Do whatever you want. Like, set it on fire.
- [13:05]
Kristin Davis
Yeah, it's really nice. It's really nice. It's a nice difference. But sometimes I wonder, like, are we just elevated now to a point of almost, like, unobtainable? Whereas when you see the bars, especially that one, you know, the one where she. She goes to see Big, to have the thing, the drink, and she walked.
- [13:22]
Mark Seale
48 blocks and 400. I have a problem with that. Okay. Really? As someone who's worn low, nobody's walking that's.
- [13:28]
Kristin Davis
She totally does 48 blocks of high.
- [13:30]
Mark Seale
Heels in New York and falls.
- [13:32]
Kristin Davis
And there is a theme, okay, because you remember after Big dies, she walks, like, 80 blocks. She would totally do this. Sarah Jessica can totally do this. It's insane.
- [13:40]
Mark Seale
48 blocks in Manolo's I. I can't walk 48 blocks in driving loafers.
- [13:46]
Kristin Davis
I know. I mean, I will say this. Our feet have suffered. Our. Our feet, all of us collectively are, you know, pretty much a mess. Like, we could go to any podiatrist at any time and they'd be like, oh my God. You know, but at the time, like, Sarah can run on the cobblestones. I mean, she is like, like an athlete. Okay.
- [14:05]
Mark Seale
In the heels that lines threw me. I was like 48 blocks.
- [14:10]
Kristin Davis
I know.
- [14:10]
Mark Seale
I would have gotten in the cab, run out, not paid, and had the 20 year old man.
- [14:14]
Kristin Davis
I'd be like, with the cash too. Because she's like, I left my cash. It's such a different world.
- [14:21]
Mark Seale
She's like, I left my. What do you mean you left your cat cab?
- [14:24]
Kristin Davis
Yeah, she got the cash out. No, there was no Uber. There was no. You didn't even pay cabs with credit card. When I get in a cab, I'm like, do I have cash? And then like, no, wait a minute. It's 20, 25. Oh my God.
- [14:36]
Mark Seale
World.
- [14:37]
Kristin Davis
Weird, Weird.
- [14:39]
Mark Seale
Some establishments. Don't take it. I'm like, you don't take American money? Is this legal?
- [14:43]
Kristin Davis
Like, I know, I know. It's very discombobulating.
- [14:47]
Mark Seale
Rid of cash now I'm like, when I have cash, I'm like, I need to find a place that takes it because many a thing doesn't.
- [14:54]
Kristin Davis
I know it. It's trouble.
- [15:01]
Blakely Thornton
Yo, what up? It's ya girl Jess. Hilarious. And I think it's time to acknowledge that I'm not just a comedian. It's time to add uncertified therapist to my credentials. Because each and every Wednesday I'm fixing your mess on cafely Reckless on the Black Effect podcast network. Got problems in your relationship? Come to me. Your best friend acting shady? Come to me. Thinking about cursing that one stank auntie out at the next family gathering. Do it. But come to me before you do because I cussed all mine out before you wanna fight your co workers, come to me. Baby daddy mad cause you got a boyfriend. Come to me. Thought you was the father, but you not come to me. I can't promise I won't judge you, but I can guarantee that I will help you as a daughter, a sister, a mother and an entrepreneur. I've learned a lot in life, so I'm using my own perspective and experiences to help you fix your mess. Send me your situation and let's fix it as a family. Listen to carefully. Reckless on the Black Effect podcast network. IHEARTRADIO app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [16:00]
Martin Luther King III
Welcome to My Legacy. I'm Martin Luther King iii, and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilburger, we explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives.
- [16:12]
Andrea Waters King
Each week, we'll sit down with inspiring figures like David Oyelo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and Billy Porter. And their plus one, they'll ride or die as they share stories never heard before about their remarkable journey.
- [16:28]
Mark Seale
Listen to my legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is my legacy.
- [16:38]
Mary Kay McBrayer
I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [17:07]
Nathan King
It was a moment that should have broken me, but just because of how I was raised and my bullishness and arrogance to want to be great hardened me, it gave me a platform to be so singularly focused on greatness.
- [17:19]
Kristin Davis
We all have moments like this. Something happens that's supposed to break us, but it's in these moments that we discover what we're really made of. I promise you, if anyone knows this, it's me. I'm Ashlyn Harris. So wait, let's go back to the episode because it's kind of fun, because it is like a time machine, right? This particular one, the first season in general, and especially this particular one. So tell me, when did you personally come to New York City?
- [17:50]
Mark Seale
I personally came to New York City in the fall of 2009. So.
- [17:57]
Kristin Davis
Okay, so way later, way later, when.
- [18:01]
Mark Seale
This episode originally aired, I was 12 years old, so.
- [18:04]
Kristin Davis
Wow, wow, wow, wow.
- [18:07]
Mark Seale
Because for me, Timothy Oliphant is justified. And I'm like, right?
- [18:11]
Kristin Davis
Like, oh, and isn't he amazing?
- [18:13]
Mark Seale
He's the youngin in this.
- [18:14]
Kristin Davis
I love die, though. Isn't he, like, incredible?
- [18:17]
Mark Seale
Yeah, he would have been 27, 28 when this episode was filmed. I'm like, wait, Timothy Olivett was in his 20s, 30. Like, he's aged very well. So good job.
- [18:24]
Kristin Davis
I mean, right? With that hair now. Oh, my God. But listen, I really was like, at the time, I was like, that guy. Oh, God, that guy. Yeah. Wait, yeah, he was already married, you know? Yes, yes, yes. Adorably. I think he already had A bunch of kids even. And I was like, wow, you're so fascinating and obviously so incredibly talented. And do you remember when, like, I mean, if I were her, I would totally pick him and I would just work on the apartment. I would just be like, let me do the apartment.
- [18:53]
Mark Seale
That was interesting to me because again, I feel like I'm around. It's interesting again, watching now at the age that you guys kind of were when the series premiered. So for me, like, I've had that recent experience where I've like gone on a date with like a 25, 26 year old and like woken up in his apartment the next day and he had like, I'm talking, like, mattress on the floor. I was like, wait, wait, wait. I thought you just had a low slung bed. And like, in the light of day, you're like, whoa. I'm like, is this bed in the living. Do you have a roommate, sir? I was like, oh, no, no, no.
- [19:22]
Kristin Davis
But what happened? Did you. Were you like, no, I'm out of here.
- [19:25]
Mark Seale
Oh. I was like, we woke up and I was like, let me order breakfast because I was hungry and now we have like uber eats. So I was like, okay, let me do it. And he was so thankful that I ordered him breakfast. I was like, that's odd. Which was very sweet. But I'm like, this is like 11, like, you know, 20 bucks. Okay. And I was, do you have any, like, do you have any, like, sparkling water? Like, which was like, oh, that made a mistake. Then I like, look around. I'm like, this bedroom's kind of big. And I realized there was just a mattress in the living room.
- [19:53]
Kristin Davis
Wow.
- [19:53]
Mark Seale
And I was like, oh, it's a big studio. Okay. And then I'm like, but then there's another. I'm like, oh, you have a roommate. Oh. So, like, I got the stuff, like, ate my breakfast. I was like, this has been sweet, sweetie. Like, you're doing great, sweetie. Kris Jenner. And like, kind of like slowly backed up never to see that man.
- [20:10]
Kristin Davis
Oh, I feel bad.
- [20:12]
Mark Seale
It was like. But he was super. I was just like, we're in different places in life. And like, I just like, great person texted a couple of times afterwards. I was like, I'm. I can't. At 39, I, for the most part, cannot do roommates.
- [20:25]
Kristin Davis
Roommates are definitely a problem for sure. But I mean, when I think back to this time in life, for sure there were people who had roommates, and that could be problematic, for sure. But it's also like, you know, I do think in the episode there. Like, first of all, I don't know if you've listened to my podcast or whatever. I have not seen these episodes. Thank you. I've not seen these episodes since way back. Right. And I, in my mind, really thought that the first season was just like, what? Like, all over the place, you know, and not really formed. But now I'm looking back on it, and I have a whole new appreciation. Like, it's not perfect by any means, but it's all there, you know? It's all there. And it's.
- [21:07]
Mark Seale
Your characteristics are surprisingly, like, blunt in the beginning, even when I saw. When I think when you had that date come to the bar and they were like, it was. He was the perfect guy for Charlotte. Like, he had money, manners, and, like, a job or something. And I was. And I was like, this is the original. Like, you. Have you heard that new. Like, it's like a meme. Like, looking for a man in finance. Six, five. Like, I'm like, charlotte's that original girl. Like, Charlotte would have been saying that.
- [21:32]
Kristin Davis
That's so true. So true.
- [21:35]
Mark Seale
30 years ahead of time. Like, Charlotte was the original.
- [21:37]
Kristin Davis
Like, so true. And I was so criticized at the time. I don't mean me. I mean, Charlotte. Like, everyone's like, she's so boring. She's so boring. And I was like, yeah, just wait. Which, you know, I'm just happy it worked out. Right. Like, at the time, everyone thought that the other three were so much more interesting and obviously very powerful, and I was much more kind of traditional. But now I think people are rediscovering these things and talking more openly about these things. I think maybe.
- [22:02]
Mark Seale
Oh, exactly. I feel like it's interesting because the zeitgeist. I feel like you can almost tell where the cultural zeitgeist is by which one of your characters they favor. And it almost swings like this in a circle because, like, everyone hated Miranda. And then she said, oh, boy. Wait, wait. Having a job in some sense and, like, dressing in YSL actually amazing that everybody hates Charlotte, then it's like, actually, wait. Like, liking love and wanting something. But actually Charlotte's, like, almost, like, very secretly, like, bohemian and aware. When you. As it moves forward. Or like, everybody hates Carrie, then it's like, oh, but it's like, whatever. She's, like, making choices. Everybody hates Samantha. Just depending on where the zeitgeist is in relation to women.
- [22:40]
Kristin Davis
Yeah.
- [22:41]
Mark Seale
It, like, swings back and forth to all of you because I've always been very strong and, like, I am a Miranda. Like, I like, are you what? I. I find my. But everybody says different. But I. I find myself.
- [22:52]
Kristin Davis
Wait, what does everyone say? Samantha.
- [22:55]
Mark Seale
Everyone obviously leans me towards probably a Samantha in terms of like, imagery and probably because I curse and I'm very sex positive. But for me, I'm just like, actually, like. I like having a job. I like stability. Like, men are very much like, secondary to me doing what I want to do.
- [23:13]
Kristin Davis
Got it. Got it. You don't Practical.
- [23:15]
Mark Seale
Yeah. You don't complete me. But you. If you're additive, that's good. And I feel like from Skipper to Steve, you know the SOS of all of them.
- [23:23]
Kristin Davis
Yes. So there are a lot of guys in between there.
- [23:26]
Mark Seale
Like, Skipper is the original Steve. Like, Skipper. Skipper fell so Steve could walk.
- [23:31]
Kristin Davis
That's a good point. That's a good point, though. Skipper, Skipper, when I look back at this is hysterical in a. That I just didn't even really perceive at all in the beginning. You know, he's like a. Like a flailing.
- [23:45]
Mark Seale
I burned almost out laughing because I. Cause in season one, you guys still had the, like the talk to camera with the random people. So the basketball scene in this just threw me back to the 90s so hard because it was just like, oh, they filmed this like a Nike commercial. It's like bros. Cause I have.
- [24:02]
Kristin Davis
I think they are.
- [24:04]
Mark Seale
I have never seen white men in their 20s in a park.
- [24:06]
Kristin Davis
Actually in the cage. They're in the cage. They're in like the cage on 6th Avenue.
- [24:10]
Mark Seale
Like, like, that's like a real thing. But I'm just like, oh, women. And like, like Skippers there.
- [24:15]
Nathan King
I know.
- [24:16]
Kristin Davis
Trying to make a basket. Oh my God.
- [24:18]
Mark Seale
Walk and chew gum. Like, I know this for facts about that character.
- [24:21]
Kristin Davis
And also, I didn't realize, but I saw it again when I watched that the guys in the bar, in the 20 something bar when she goes back, are the same guys on the basketball.
- [24:30]
Mark Seale
Mm.
- [24:31]
Kristin Davis
Which is amazing. Like, we were thinking in such interesting ways at the time. But they do say some crazy things. Like, they say, like, that kid who's 17 says, Smart D. It was.
- [24:43]
Mark Seale
Or like, you remind me of my mom. What?
- [24:45]
Andrea Waters King
I know.
- [24:47]
Mark Seale
That's disgusting. Like, why would you go to therapy?
- [24:50]
Kristin Davis
Like, and this is when we're like, I feel as a show that we're just trying to be like, aggressively nonjudgmental. Do you mean like, we're just like, whatever these dudes say, we're not going to judge them. Whereas when I look at them, I'm like, they're awful. Oh, yeah, right. Awful.
- [25:05]
Mark Seale
The 90s. Like, oh, men are doing whatever. I'm like, these are horrible human beings.
- [25:09]
Kristin Davis
Right.
- [25:10]
Mark Seale
And that was the dating pool. But that was also like. It's enigmatic. It's like, it's representative of the culture at the time.
- [25:16]
Kristin Davis
Yeah, it really is.
- [25:17]
Mark Seale
Just the amount of times that, interestingly enough, even like, I remember the Chris rock show in 2000. You guys had, like, just been on the COVID of something together, and it was like, literally some, like, white male pundit, like, actively calling you guys whores. It was so.
- [25:34]
Kristin Davis
Oh, this is what it was like.
- [25:35]
Mark Seale
I was like, wait. I, like, I remember being like 15, like 1999, 2000.
- [25:40]
Kristin Davis
Was it Bill O'Reilly? Yes, because Bill O'Reilly came up to me in an event and he said, you know, he's really tall, right?
- [25:48]
Mark Seale
Yeah.
- [25:48]
Kristin Davis
And he said, if I ever see Darren Starr, I'm gonna punch him in the face. And I was like, huh? I was just like, what's happening? And he goes, I can't believe what he makes you guys do. And I was like, you know, we really love our show. Like, we're fine, we're fine. Thank you, sir. You know, I was very confused. He was, like, aggressively critical.
- [26:11]
Mark Seale
That's such a microcosm of culture, though. Like a crazy misogynist. Like, actually, like, verbally assaulting you about how they're going to help you. And you're like, I'm good.
- [26:19]
Kristin Davis
I know. And then, like, what happens with him happens with him. I mean, it's fascinating, right? It's fascinating.
- [26:25]
Mark Seale
It's very fascinating coming from inside the House, Bill.
- [26:27]
Kristin Davis
100% from the ball. Let me ask you this, though. Let's talk about Big and Carrie, because I need, like, outside interpretation. Because for me, also, I'm looking back on it and I am kind of like, amazed and confused a little bit about it. Like, I wasn't thinking objectively at all about it at the time. I fully understood that they had chemistry and that was really what mattered or whatever. And also, I think he looks a little sad, you know, Like, I. Part of me, I just want to take care of him. But I mean, this is me slash Charlotte, obviously. But, like, I had forgotten the very slow kind of it was.
- [27:03]
Mark Seale
They do very slow burn. It's very interesting. And I feel like that whole kind of like non committal again, like, man boy. Because for me, like, I feel like in 2025, you're a man in your 40s who's like, divorced or like. Or makes money. It's like you need to, like, be able to Be in tune with your feelings and say, I like you. This is a date. Like, that's a low bar. But sure. He was just like, oh, it's a drinks thing. Oh, there really was a true cat and mouse. Even. Like, when his friend came. Oh, dinner. I was like, oh, but I love the. Carrie did that. She was like, I'm. Goodbye. Are you kidding me? Like, are you.
- [27:36]
Kristin Davis
I know. She's so smart, but for a man.
- [27:39]
Mark Seale
In his 40s to pull that is right. Is like insane. And I'm like, it's probably more common than we would think, but like, oh, I think so.
- [27:49]
Kristin Davis
I think men do all kind of weird shit, but I also think that the person that's based on was very, very powerful person in New York in the 90s, right? So we knew that and it was written in there. And I don't know when you're watching it, if you can really tell, but you know, when men are at a certain level of money and power structure, they're just like, I can do whatever I want to do. And you're gonna follow along lady friend.
- [28:12]
Mark Seale
Exactly.
- [28:12]
Kristin Davis
Because you're lucky, you know? But she's like, no, I'm not gonna do that. Here's my money. Buy you some drinks. But she's charming about it, you know, like, she's got game.
- [28:21]
Mark Seale
I think that also might have been, like, when I look back on it, a very, like the look on his face when. When look. When viewed through the lens of their entire relationship, I think that might have been the moment where he decided to take her seriously because it was actually an expression of self worth. I feel like if Carrie stays through that date, like, that's actually a really pivotal moment. If she's like, cool, I'll sit here with your divorced friend while he hits on people.
- [28:46]
Kristin Davis
Ew.
- [28:46]
Mark Seale
And you're very much like, that's a very clear bet. Like, it's a. It's a tale of what you will and will not accept. And for her to be like, oh, you're with your friend. I'm not going to tell you how stupid this is. I'm not going to tell you how incensed this makes me. I'm going to leave very casually with a smile, right. Your drink, and let you figure out how dumb you look right now.
- [29:07]
Kristin Davis
Right?
- [29:07]
Mark Seale
That's the moment where she's amazing.
- [29:09]
Kristin Davis
Carrie's amazing.
- [29:10]
Mark Seale
Like, you know what? And she's like. And you can hear her in her head, like, am I confused? But like, it's actually like we're getting the vulnerability of that moment. As, like, the audience voiceover. But what he's getting is a woman being, like, nothing. Like, in the most easy, breezy, beautiful way.
- [29:26]
Kristin Davis
Being, like, breezy. Yes, yes.
- [29:28]
Mark Seale
And he's like, wait, okay. I think, like, that in my mind, when I watched it back yesterday, it was like, that's the moment. I think he kind of, like, fell in love or the game became real. Because the first three episodes, he's an idea. He's a nickname.
- [29:42]
Kristin Davis
Right.
- [29:42]
Mark Seale
Playing with her. Miranda. Miranda can't figure it out. And she was number one in litigation.
- [29:47]
Kristin Davis
You know, she's like, miranda's confused by him. I love that. Ye.
- [29:50]
Mark Seale
And she's like, no, thank you. And he's like, okay, cool.
- [29:53]
Kristin Davis
Then they see each other again, and then she's walking away, and she's like, oh, would have been so cool if I didn't look back, which is also so good. But, I mean, the other thing that I think when I'm looking at it is, like, their chemistry is so strong. Do you think that I definitely.
- [30:06]
Mark Seale
I think they were definitely, like, whatever version of quote unquote, soulmates there are. Like, when I look. When I look at it now, at my age through it, like, I think the women are each other's soul mates and the men are added into their lives. I think it's actually a love story between four women in reality. Like, it's an expression of platonic love, which makes the sex in the city ironic aspect of it.
- [30:24]
Kristin Davis
Yes.
- [30:24]
Mark Seale
But their chemistry is super strong as, like, actors, as characters. You know, there's something where like, even the way he just keeps orbiting her in the opening, like, we saw Bris, we saw this, and then we finally decided to like it. Made me miss the meet. Cute. Because nowadays, it's like somebody follows you on Tinder or Instagram.
- [30:43]
Kristin Davis
Yeah, no, I know. And we don't even have rom coms anymore. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the only rom coms they're making now are, like, older women, younger men, which I'm so fascinated by. So fascinated by.
- [31:01]
Blakely Thornton
Y'all, what up? It's your girl Jess. Hilarious. And I think it's time to acknowledge that I'm not just a comedian. It's time to add uncertified therapists to my credentials. Because each and every Wednesday, I'm fixing your mess on carefully reckless on the Black Effect podcast network. Got problems in your relationship? Come to me. Your best friend, acting shady. Come to me. Thinking about cursing that one stank auntie out at the next family gathering. Do it. But come to me before you did because I cussed all mine out before you wanna fight your co workers come to me baby daddy mad cause you got a boyfriend come to me. Thought you was the father but you not come to me. I can't promise I won't judge you, but I can guarantee that I will help you. As a daughter, a sister, a mother, and an entrepreneur, I've learned a lot in life, so I'm using my own perspective and experiences to help you fix your mess. Send me your situation and let's fix it as a family. Listen to carefully Reckless on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [31:59]
Martin Luther King III
Welcome to My Legacy. I'm Martin Luther King III and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilburger, we explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives.
- [32:11]
Andrea Waters King
Each week we'll sit down with inspiring figures like David Oyelowo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and Billy Porter and their plus one, their ride or die as they share stories never heard before about their remarkable journey.
- [32:28]
Mark Seale
Listen to My legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is my legacy.
- [32:37]
Minnie Driver
What if you ask two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast, Mini Questions. Over the years, we have had some incredible guests. People like Courteney Cox, star of the infinitely beloved sitcom Friends, egot winner Viola Davis, and former Prime Minister of the UK Tony Blair. And now, Mini Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven Questions, including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe, and Cord Jefferson. Each episode is a new person story with new lessons, new memories, and new connections to show us how we're both similar and unique. Listen to Mini questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 7 Questions Limitless Answers it was a.
- [33:39]
Nathan King
Moment that should have broken me, but just because of how I was raised and my bullishness and arrogance to want to be great hardened me. It gave me a platform to be so singularly focused on greatness.
- [33:51]
Kristin Davis
We all have moments like this. Something happens that's supposed to break us, but it's in these moments that we discover what we're really made of. I promise you, if anyone knows this, it's me. I'm Ashlyn Harris. Okay, let's talk for a second about Charlotte, because I feel this is the first good storyline that Charlotte gets. And I remember it all so clearly. I remember literally dying when we had to do the read through. Literally dying when I first read the script. Like, oh my God, I've been wanting a storyline and now this is it.
- [34:28]
Blakely Thornton
Yeah, I'm gonna die.
- [34:29]
Mark Seale
I mean, honestly, hyper realistic. And to be, especially as a gay man, timeless.
- [34:35]
Kristin Davis
And I mean, if you think about it now, like, Nikki Glaser stands up in her sitcom, you know, Stand up does a whole section on it where she gives like instructions, right? But like, back then you didn't say those words.
- [34:47]
Mark Seale
Oh, no, that was crazy. And she says like, you, let's do it the regular way. And like, that's crazy. Like, again, you guys are just broaching topics that have become like, really trailblazing. Because again, I feel like just dating in regards to anal sex is timeless, universal. It knows no, it knows no demographic.
- [35:04]
Kristin Davis
I know, but it's so funny that we're even saying this. Like, it never would have crossed my mind at the time. I just thought, like, wow, I'm gonna have to just get through this because I need a storyline and I need them to write for Charlotte. And like, when, when I was with Michael Patrick on the, on the podcast and we talk about. He remembers us at the read through because every, every episode still we do like a old fashioned read through so that he can hear it. And you have to really perform. Like, you have to say it loud. You can't just like mumble into your little microphone. You have to like hit the. Those jokes or he will cut them. Right? It's like cutthroat type read through, right? I try to explain this to my young pretend children, like, please be louder at the read through so that your stuff doesn't get cut, you know, and they're like, what? But anyway, back then, we couldn't get through it. We couldn't get through it. The four of us were like falling off our chairs, you know, which has happened once since then when I had to say like some crazy thing to Harry and just like that, I can't even remember what it is. I blocked it out. But like, the four of us sometimes just get the laugh so hard. So when we went to film in the really, really old cab, like, like there are some old cars in the show, but like this Cab was like 1975.
- [36:13]
Mark Seale
I rewound that scene because I was like, are they in the horse drawn carriage? I like the background of it. I was like, what is that?
- [36:19]
Kristin Davis
It is an old, old cab that had enough room for all four of us. And the DP and the director are in the front seat with the handheld camera perched on the back of the front seat, which is a, you know, like banquette or whatever you would call it in a car. Right.
- [36:36]
Mark Seale
It reminded. Remember Taxi Cab Confessions? Yes. That might have been airing at the same time, but I was like. It was. I was like, this feels like Taxi Cab Confessions. One thing I should not have been watching and should not remember, based on.
- [36:49]
Kristin Davis
My age, I had forgotten about that. That was a good thing. That was fascinating. It was like that. So. And that guy who plays a cab driver. So great. So our director and our DP are there. They're, like, hiding under the camera. And then they'd, like, you know, put their heads up and give us a note. And then we would have to do. We would have to go back around to do each take so that the background matched, which is funny. Cause you can't really see anything. But, like, these are the things that we took seriously. So I never said the words, the real words that I'm supposed to say until the take that we were rolling. Because I was just mortified. All right, so we start. We start. We're doing. It's like. They're like, this is it. You know, we're gonna do it. So we go to do it. I can't say the words. I. I up my line. Cause I can't say the words. And I was so embarrassed. Cause then we had to go around the whole other time. And so Jessica's like, it's okay. It's okay. It'll be okay. You can do it. You can do it. And then, of course, we pick up each one. And then my reaction when she's like, we're gonna go to, you know, whatever Miranda's address is. And I'm like, no. And then they're like, we're gonna. Samantha's. I'm like, no. Like, it's very funny and very Charlotte. You know, I mean, it is.
- [37:55]
Mark Seale
It very much was. I think it was just. It was very Charlotte, like. And again, Charlotte has some of the more interesting lines and also just ends up. Her arc is interesting. Cause I feel like you are all such360 human beings, but were packaged in very palatable archetypes for the time.
- [38:13]
Kristin Davis
Yeah. I mean, we're only 360 beings because of our writers working so hard over the years. And, you know, we had Michael, Patrick, but so many women.
- [38:20]
Mark Seale
And I feel like everything kind of, like, slowly exposes itself, and they're giving you archetypes. And obviously those archetypes have lasted for decades now through, like, you know, girls or like, other Michael Patrick King shows. Like, like a younger or like a Emily show. It's one girl, two guys. And then, like, the actual world around her ends up being more important than those men. Which is a very interesting thing that I've seen in, like, in, like, those kind of. And Darren Starr, Michael Patrick, etc.
- [38:50]
Andrea Waters King
Right, right.
- [38:51]
Kristin Davis
No, that's a good point. That's a good point.
- [38:53]
Mark Seale
Of Twilight or Hunger Games.
- [38:55]
Kristin Davis
Oh, my gosh.
- [38:55]
Mark Seale
Those are kind of Sex in the City coded where it's like, which guy do I choose? And, like, my friends actually helped me with that.
- [39:00]
Kristin Davis
Like, that's so interesting. I never thought of that.
- [39:03]
Mark Seale
But, yeah, Charlotte. Charlotte's been dealing with everything, but she deals with everything through, I feel, like a bohemian Greenwich lens. That's what I call it. Like, she was raised in Greenwich. Those are her mores and those. What she's. That's what she's been told to like. But I feel like Charlotte is actually a character through the entire series that just slowly becomes more herself to the point where you get to, like. And just like that. And she's, like, hyper bohemian and, like, call and, like, buying her kids condoms. Like, that's like. Like, that's.
- [39:30]
Kristin Davis
I know. So interesting.
- [39:32]
Mark Seale
I want a man now. She's like, okay, do it in the house. Don't get back.
- [39:37]
Kristin Davis
I know. It's so. It's so crazy, but I do think that's like a. A very relatable trajectory. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you kind of like. Like, that's how. Also I think her friends have influenced her, you know, because people are still like, well, why were you friends with them in the beginning? I' why would I be? Because she wants to be them. You know what I'm saying?
- [39:55]
Mark Seale
Or even the episode. There was a later episode, I think, where after she maybe gets divorced, or she's with Trey where she's like, goes back to the girls of the Greenwich, and she's like, I hate these bitches.
- [40:04]
Kristin Davis
She realizes she's the Samantha of that.
- [40:07]
Mark Seale
She's like. And she throws the money at them, finding about sex. And then she's like, wait, these girls suck. Like, but. Right.
- [40:13]
Kristin Davis
That episode is how I ended up at the Jacques Moose show in Nice.
- [40:18]
Mark Seale
Oh, wow. I remember that. I literally remember he had a picture.
- [40:22]
Kristin Davis
Simone had a picture of me with my young self in, like, a tank top with the sweater tied, like, so preppy. And that was the inspiration. And he wanted me to wear that. I'm like, babe, it's so many years ago. I can't wear that tank top. He was like, no, he was so sweet. I was like, just maybe a shirt, you know? But that was his whole inspiration, which I was like, how random. But also how incredibly flattering.
- [40:44]
Mark Seale
Yeah. I mean, that's so funny that, like, you guys have been living these moments or moments that you might have forgotten are such canon or, like, you know, like, personality defining things for now. A new generation of creatives that, like, you're now working with. Like, that is amazing, Interesting to me.
- [41:01]
Kristin Davis
We would never have it. Never. Never would have entered our mind, you know, like, at this point still. You know, this aired in 1998, right? Which is hysterical. Nothing had aired yet before this first season. We filmed the whole first season without anything on the air, and no one knew what we were. So we weren't borrowing clothes at this point. Like. Like, we were hoping one day maybe we could borrow some clothes, you know, from somebody. Like, none of that had happened. You know, it was a different world. But I have another thing I want to tell you about. So, you know the scene after the cab scene, and I go back to the guy who's played by Josh Stemberg, who's a great actor. Like, did you watch Fleischman is in trouble? Is that what it's called, Fleischman Trouble?
- [41:39]
Mark Seale
I did.
- [41:40]
Kristin Davis
He's on there. He's really scary.
- [41:45]
Blakely Thornton
Right?
- [41:45]
Kristin Davis
I know, but so good. So good. He's a great actor. He's been in so many things. I should have looked this up so I could list his things. But he's. He's great. And he was that guy, the guy who wanted me to do the thing I didn't want to do, which I'm just not gonna say. So we went. We filmed that scene. I still have that shiny blouse. I still have all these clothes from back then, which is kind of funny because they're so boring, but I still have them. And we filmed that scene. And I had been in acting class for, like, 20 years at this point, right before. Before the show, you know, got going. So to me, in acting class, they're always talking about high stakes, high stakes, high stakes. So I'm thinking about how much she wants to get married now. This guy is so perfect, but he wants her to do this thing and how upsetting that would be, Whatever. So I'm very emotional. Darren came to me and said, you know, babe, we gotta refilm that. And I'm like, what? Like, I think it's the only time in my life I've had to reshoot a scene based on my performance. And he said, listen, you know, this is just one guy. There's another guy around the corner.
- [42:41]
Mark Seale
Yeah.
- [42:41]
Kristin Davis
And I was like, what? What? Like, to me, I did not understand that. Like, as a human being, I didn't understand that. And I didn't understand that from acting perspective. But also, I didn't really know these girls yet. Like, there are real girls that they were based on. I don't know about that. You know what I'm saying? So I was like, oh, God, there's another guy around the corner. Really? For Charlotte, like, this is what she thinks. And he's like, yes, we've got to re reshoot this. I'm like, okay. So we did. It's the only scene, thank God, in my career.
- [43:10]
Mark Seale
That's interesting. That's crazy.
- [43:11]
Kristin Davis
I know. Because he did not want me to have the high stakes, which I had never really been told, like, don't have high stakes. You know what I'm saying?
- [43:18]
Mark Seale
I mean, that also, for the time period. That scene is groundbreaking.
- [43:20]
Kristin Davis
One, I'm glad.
- [43:21]
Mark Seale
And two, I wanted to say, like, also for me rewatching the series, it's so interesting. And I'm not sure if you've had a guest say this yet. How much? Almost, like, my, like, coming out is coded with watching you guys date. Because, like, as a. As a kid, I'm, like, sitting here watching all these episodes and, like, you're seeing sex for the first time. And I heard, like, now it's, like, triggering me. Watching the first season, I'm like, oh, this is when I first realized I was attracted to dudes. I wasn't saying anything, but I was like, wow, like, that guy's hot. Okay. I was like, I'm also looking for a man that's 65 in finance. So I was like. But I feel like. I feel like, like, Sex in the City kind of, like, taught me I was gay before I was even gay. Because especially for me, like, Samantha's sex scenes are very much like, I remember. I literally remember being 13 and watching her have sex with that fireman. And.
- [44:09]
Kristin Davis
Yeah.
- [44:09]
Mark Seale
And the camera spinning around.
- [44:10]
Kristin Davis
And I was like, yeah, that was good.
- [44:12]
Mark Seale
In his butt.
- [44:15]
Kristin Davis
Glad we could be of help, you know?
- [44:17]
Mark Seale
So there's.
- [44:17]
Kristin Davis
So.
- [44:18]
Mark Seale
There's so many levels. I feel like everybody, like, I'm sure you hate hearing people say, like, oh, we grew up with you, because we're still, like, experiencing it.
- [44:24]
Kristin Davis
Like, no, I don't mind.
- [44:25]
Mark Seale
I still need My LTW Charlotte spin off. I would, like. I just want you guys as crazy, like, Spence moms going and doing things like.
- [44:36]
Kristin Davis
That'd be great. Oh, you're gonna love the first episode. Then when we come back, I'm on a little. A little adventure. Me and ltw, we do have a good time. We do have a good time. And also, I personally, not that I'm ever wanting anyone to spin anything off from us. I always want to be there, right? But, like, ltw W could actually just have her own spin off because her whole family is so fascinating.
- [45:00]
Mark Seale
I. I've enjoyed the whole thing. I'm also like, I think I heard you guys talking on, like, one of the last episodes about, like, the crazy reaction to, like, Miranda. But I'm like, that's what happens, guys.
- [45:10]
Kristin Davis
Thank you.
- [45:11]
Mark Seale
Friends that make crazy decisions and you like them and they are the catalyst for your life. Even like, Charlotte, when I remember when we're into first kids with Che, and you're at the picnic and you're like, huh, so explain what is. What is happening with you. But I think that's what I would like again, that's Charlotte in that growth, calling the thing the thing. Like, Carrie will be pissy. She'll still make a punch, but she's not. Carrie's not gonna cut through and be like, what the is going on?
- [45:38]
Kristin Davis
It's true. But can I tell you about that scene? So Miranda. Sorry, Cynthia was directing that episode, which is so crazy to remember, right? So she's in it. It's a big episode. She's also directing it. So when I read that scene, I thought that Charlotte was being, like, kind of supportive but gently questioning, you know, like how she does sometimes. Like, are you sure? We get there and Michael Patrick's like, yell at her. I'm like, what? What? We're down at Battery Park. And he's like, yell at her. I'm like, ah, I can't yell at her. I'm so scared. She looks so mad. Like, she looks so mad at me, you know? And, you know, we have lost all boundaries between our personal and professional selves, right? He's like, no, you gotta yell at her, because this is shocking. And I'm like, you're. You're right, I guess. I mean, I thought it was all very exciting, but that has more to do with me, I guess, right. That she took this big leap, you know, Obviously, not everybody feels that way, and people are still have very strong feelings about it. Very strong feelings.
- [46:36]
Mark Seale
Incredibly strong.
- [46:38]
Kristin Davis
It's crazy. But I also Take that as a compliment. Like, like, we're 30 years later almost, and people have strong feelings. Hallelujah.
- [46:46]
Mark Seale
People do feel. I think it's got to be interesting for you almost. Like. And we'll. I'm sure we'll discuss it a later date. I'm sure I'll meet you at some point in this life.
- [46:53]
Kristin Davis
Yeah, you got to come to the set, babe.
- [46:55]
Mark Seale
People feeling like they have ownership over you guys and what you do or like, like, even, like in the fan reactions, like, even, I'll admit, the first season. And just like that, I was like, well, I'm like, wait, actually, it's been 20 something years. Like, they're going to be different people. There's going to be relationships change. Like, if I'm looking, I'm also. People are often looking for. I think people don't like change. And I think, yeah, all they have when you guys sign off, whether it was 2003 or the end of the second movie, is like, their idea of what's happened to you. Yeah, that's different. Instead of, like, reconciling it, they're like, no, be what you were 2003.
- [47:31]
Kristin Davis
I know, I know. I feel bad. But the truth is, is if we were what we were were in 2003, nobody would want to see that.
- [47:38]
Mark Seale
Exactly.
- [47:39]
Kristin Davis
That would be sad, you know? You know? Yeah. No, we had to create something new. And we're just really lucky that we even get to do it in this crazy world that we're living in. You know what I'm saying? Like, we were lucky in the beginning because in the beginning we were old. You know? That's what's also so funny when you rewatch. Like, we look like little tiny children, but we were over 30, which was, like, shocking, right, that there'd be a show where a bunch of. Of 30 somethings were, like, stomping around New York in high heels. People were like, what? Like, it, like, was mind blowing.
- [48:11]
Mark Seale
But it's so funny how, like, honestly, again, it is kind of universal because I've had. When I go back and look at it and kind of like that's. That episode triggered my memory of the rest of the seasons. Like, I've had a lot of the things that happened to you happened to me. Like, I've had my friends have kids now. And I went in and I had. I had a Chanel. A blood red Chanel boy bag. And. And. And then one of the little kids spilled yogurt on it, and I was like, oh, no. I. Like, I've never wanted to, like, throat punch a four year old. But I was like. And like, one of the. One of the moms was like, well, you know, it wasn't even. It wasn't the mom who's throwing the party was my friend, but it was. It was the mom of the girl that did it, who was very badly behaved, was like, well, you know, we don't expend money on, like, things like that. And I'm like, you live. Oh, God, you live in Brentwood. What are you talking about? Your house is 8 million American dollars. Like, totally. You know, I'm gonna go light your Tesla on fire and see how you feel about that. So I feel like that was like the Carrie Shoe episode where it's like, don't judge me and my life or, like, what I want. And I also think almost being like a gay man is like being a single gay woman in the 90s. So there's like, people are used to it. Like, they're used to the idea of you. But we'll change very strange ways that you're like, excuse me, I'm just here existing. Even like kids. I'm like, I don't want kids. I like kids. Do I want. No. Do I want them not?
- [49:27]
Kristin Davis
Right, right.
- [49:28]
Mark Seale
I think that's very similar to what all of your characters are going through in different capacities. Whether it's, you know, Samantha being like, no. Carrie kind of evolving with it. Charlotte being like, this is the goal.
- [49:40]
Kristin Davis
Right, right, right, right.
- [49:42]
Mark Seale
And, you know, Miranda just kind of having had one, like, oh, well, there. Well, here we go. Whoopsie daisy. Now I gotta raise a kid. Now I have a break.
- [49:49]
Kristin Davis
Totally. And I also think, like, Michael Patrick talked about. He really felt that the time that he came, 1997, you know, that being a gay man, like, he. He felt the other in the way that we single women at the time felt the other. But I still feel like it's not that different now in a lot of ways.
- [50:07]
Mark Seale
I think it's like, it's a very similar energy you get. And I feel like it's the energy of just basically like straight men not understanding you and looking at the entire world through their purview and being like, oh, you don't want this. It's almost like straight men are like. Like Miranda Priestly, like, everybody wants to be us. And we're like, no, we don't.
- [50:24]
Kristin Davis
Totally. Yes, it is like that. I feel like that as a single woman. Yes, yes. And people are like, but why? Why? And I'm like, oh, my God, please stop asking me Why I am like.
- [50:34]
Mark Seale
Even to this day, like, when people ask the question, like, they think it's a compliment or like, I'll get it online or from friends or when I on a first date, how are you single? That's not. Maybe I was sick. Maybe I was not prioritizing romantic love. Maybe I have standards. Maybe I. Maybe I get a fair amount of love from my friends of 30 years who. Maybe I want someone who's additive to my life. But like, yes, but like, you're at. You're acting as if pairing off monogamously is the default is actually really, really presumptuous and really condescending. And I think, like, I think that's why the spirit of the show continues on. Or like, has it has been so similarly, like, forced in people's lives. It's almost like you're getting four versions of like, like being yourself. Of, like, authentically being yourself and having friends that don't judge you. Because I think, like, seminal episodes, Seminal moments in all the episodes, whether it's this one, whether it's the Carrie Blowjob, the FedEx guy, whether it's Charlotte getting mad about the pregnancy. It's like those moments when you, like, want to judge, but you're. They come back and be like, that was rude of me to do that to you. Like, actually, your life is different than mine. And I think that's why people are so attached to these characters because, like, it happens in all the cycles of their lives. Through divorces, through marriages, through babies, through cancer, through coming out as non binary and moving to la. You're just like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna question your decision making, but I'm not gonna come at it like, my doesn't stink. And I like, love that. And I think going back to this episode, you kind of, like, really feel it in a seminal way where again, like, I'm gonna stand 10 toes down. This is where Carrie and Big fall in love because Carrie asserts her standards. Charlotte actually, when you think about it, like, deals with the wildest stuff in the episode. Because even like, for me, I was like, oh. Like, oh, wow. Like, Samantha, you slept with a 20 year old and, like, did it on your side. Like, like 1997 was a while. She's like, we did it on our side and on our back and on our tummies. I'm like, so you rolled over this. This was crazy. Like, Charlotte's out here, like, dealing with butt sex, and you're like, oh, I'm crazy because I did it on my left shoulder. Like, it's kind of like, you're right.
- [52:41]
Kristin Davis
All this true.
- [52:42]
Mark Seale
Everyone is there with Charlotte, like dealing with bohemian through a more traditional lens. And like, you're right.
- [52:49]
Kristin Davis
I like this take Blakely. I'm down with it. I'm gonna write down that whole last thing you said. I'm gonna refer back to it. Okay. When I get put on the spot. All right. Thank you. Thank you for being with us.
- [53:00]
Mark Seale
Thank you for having me. This has been.
- [53:01]
Kristin Davis
You're amazing.
- [53:02]
Mark Seale
Yes.
- [53:03]
Kristin Davis
Good travels out there and we want to see you back here in la.
- [53:06]
Mark Seale
Yes, I'll be back in LA soon, I think. I don't even know. Sometime soon. Two weeks.
- [53:11]
Kristin Davis
I know you're a jet setter, babe.
- [53:12]
Mark Seale
We're trying.
- [53:13]
Kristin Davis
I love it.
- [53:18]
Mark Seale
I'm Mark Seale.
- [53:19]
Nathan King
And I'm Nathan King.
- [53:20]
Mark Seale
This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli.
- [53:22]
A.J. Jacobs
The five families did not want us.
- [53:24]
Mark Seale
To shoot that picture.
- [53:25]
Nathan King
This podcast is based on my co host, Mark Seals best selling book of the same title that features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Caan, Talia Shire, and many others.
- [53:37]
Mark Seale
Yes, that was a real horse's head.
- [53:39]
Nathan King
Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the cannoli starting February 19th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [53:49]
Jon Stewart
Catch Jon Stewart back in action on the Daily show and in your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. From his hilarious satirical takes on on today's politics and entertainment to the unique voices of correspondents and contributors, it's your perfect companion to stay on top of what's happening now. Plus, you'll get special content just for podcast listeners, like in depth interviews and a roundup of the week's top headlines. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [54:23]
A.J. Jacobs
Dressing. Dressing.
- [54:25]
Mark Seale
Oh, French dressing.
- [54:27]
A.J. Jacobs
Exactly.
- [54:29]
Mark Seale
That's good.
- [54:29]
A.J. Jacobs
I'm A.J. jacobs and my current obsession is puzzles, and that has given birth to my podcast, the Puzzler.
- [54:37]
Mark Seale
Something about Mary Poppins?
- [54:39]
A.J. Jacobs
Exactly.
- [54:40]
Jon Stewart
This is fun.
- [54:41]
A.J. Jacobs
You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio at Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [54:54]
Martin Luther King III
Welcome to my legacy. I'm Martin Luther King III and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilburger, we explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives.
- [55:06]
Andrea Waters King
Join us for heartfelt conversations with remarkable guests like David Oyelo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and and Billy.
- [55:15]
Mark Seale
Porter listen to My legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is my legacy.