← Are You A Charlotte?
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
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Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Hey, sis. It's Dr. Joy from Therapy for Black Girls. We've had 400 episodes of Conversations, growth and healing, so we're celebrating. Join us for a special episode with internationally recognized yogi Chelsea Jackson Roberts as she shares wisdom on mindfulness, movement, and motherhood. I waited later to have children, and I still have exactly what I knew that I wanted. You don't want to miss this special episode. Listen to Therapy for black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, here's the thing, I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating people, like writer and actor Dan Aykroyd. I love writing more than anything. You're left alone. You know, you do three hours in the morning, you write three hours in the afternoon. Go pick up a kid from school and write at night. And after nine hours, you come out with seven pages and then you're moving on. And actor and comedian Jack McBrayer. The most important aspect is the collaboration with people that I like, I trust are talented. That has been the most amazing gift to me about this crazy business that we've chosen. Meeting these people who have such diverse talents and you're able to create something together. Listen to here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hello, everybody. Welcome. Welcome back to Are you a Charlotte? Today, we are going to recap episode 105. It is called, oh, my gosh, the power of female sex. Dun, dun, dun, dun. And it is just me. I'm recapping just me and myself today. So for the fan who wrote in on the Instagram page saying, you know, can you explain the guests at the top of the show? The guest is myself. So I hope that's okay with you guys. All right. This episode is so fascinating. And when I rewatched it, I was, wow, shocked. Didn't remember lots and lots of it. Did remember some of it. But also, like, when I think about the first season, part of the reason that I feel like in my mind I had felt like, no, no, no, the first season's like, a mess. Is because we really are kind of all over the place. Like, different things happen, one of which we'll get to in a second that are kind of unexpected and odd. And I feel like we were trying things out. And then also when I look back now, I'm just so impressed by. By so many things about it. And in this particular episode, there's a lot of really fascinating conversation about power and sex and men and women and the power of female sexuality that I'm just so kind of amazed by and just happy that I got to be a part of it in a lot of ways. And the other thing I think of. And I'm just going to say this at the top, too, because, you know, I. I have my. I have my drive to the podcast studio, and I always think about things on my drive in the morning before we do the podcast. And today I was thinking about the fact that I'm so grateful that I got to do this show for all of the gazillion years that I've been doing it and that I got to grow up on it, because when I look back at myself, I seem like I am just so incredibly young and unformed, and I'm just so grateful that someone hired me and let me stay while I turned into a grownup, because that's kind of how I feel. I feel like I grew up on this show, even though technically it's not really true. But, like, when I look at myself, especially in episodes like this, I'm like. I'm like a little child. I'm like a little innocent child making a lot of faces. But anyway, that's my commentary on myself. But we'll get into more detail. All right, this episode is extremely fascinating. It is directed by Susan Settleman, who also directed the pilot, and written by Jenji Cohan. Do you remember back when I said I didn't know any of the writers from the first season? Not true. Jenji Cohan is amazing. She created Orange Is the New Black, you guys. Can you believe. Also Weeds. And she wrote an episode in our very first season called the Power of Female Sex. So clearly she was already onto her themes. And those themes are very much in play in our episode, For Better or for Worse, but they are in play in a very interesting way. We also have a different dp, so in case. I don't know how much you guys are interested in the technical stuff, but to me, it's interesting. So our very first, we had Stuart Dreiberg. Amazing, amazing dp. It's very dark. Then we have Maurice Alberti, French. Very, very, very cool shots. Those were the first two episodes. Now we have Michael Barrow, who we had for a while, and I had forgotten about him, but I remembered him when I watched this, partly because the show is very dark first season, like, physically dark. You Know, not dark thematically, but physically dark. Like we're out at night a lot. It's very dark. Also in the technical realm, we used to film on something called Super 16, which is kind of hysterical if you know anything about film and whatnot. In that now in the age of, you know, digital high def, it's like so shocking that we filmed an entire TV show on Super 16. But what was great about it was that it gave like this kind of gritty softness. So like when we're out at night and we're on the street, the car lights kind of flair in a certain way. Like it has a very kind of, to me, old fashioned feeling that I really love. And I thought that that was very much in evidence in this episode as well as some, some, some just generally dark clubs and, or restaurants that may or may not be real or sets. I'm really not sure. I need to find out. Okay, so the interesting thing about this, there's so many interesting things, but it begins with Samantha and Carrie waiting 45 minutes for a table at something that we're calling Balzac. But it's really standing in for Balthazar, which opened that year. Still a fantastic restaurant in New York that we go to frequently and we love. But at the time it was a very, very hard reservation to get. And New York is really still like this. Like we were in New York filming and just like that, when all the COVID things were letting go, you know, lifting and you could go out to eat again. And I was trying to get. My kids and I were just like, oh, hey, let's go to this restaurant. They would not let me in. And not that they were so mean. Okay, they were so mean. And I was like, why? Why so mean? Like we're just, just back out in the world. Like then I remember. No, we're in New York. This is how it is. It's not. It's never going to change. So anyway, there's so many things I love about this whole Balthazar slash Balzac, you know, fill in one is the hostess. So I don't know if you guys follow the hat saga on Sex and the City and the movies and then just like that. But Sarah Jessica and our costume designers love hats. Michael Patrick King cannot stand hats. So whenever we wear a hat, we have to ask permission. And I personally have had a few hats where I'm wearing like a one's coming up in, in a couple episodes from now. I've got a big, you know, wide brimmed hat on. But they can't see your face and they can't light your face. So then it's a whole drama. And then the DPs like, oh, you've gotta push it back. And then you're wearing a hat and this very weird angle. And I'm sure everyone who's watching is like, why is she wearing her hat like that? That's not how you wear that hat. Well, we're wearing it because you can't see our face under it. Right? So you this to me, this hostess, this beautiful woman who plays the hostess who has to be kind of aloof and mean for most of the episode to both Carrie and Samantha. She has assorted various small hatch perched on her head, which really makes me laugh. And she pulled it off beautifully. And I cannot wait to talk to Molly Rogers, our costume designer, who was from the beginning with us. From the beginning. I believe she's listed as costume supervisor in the first season. So I can't wait to talk to her about the hostess in the hats. But they're there. They're waiting for this hostess to let them in. She will not let them in. Samantha says this is when we start with the power. The power topic. Samantha points out that if the hostess was a man, they would be sending over free drinks and obviously already be at their table. Which is interesting, right? And I think to myself, like, hmm, this is interesting. And I have to mull this over. This is one of those ones where I really think like, is this still all the same or is it not? And I'm not sure, and I'm dying to hear what you guys think. I think a lot of it is still at play, but I also think that sometimes it's more like out in the open, you know, it's not so underneath everything, I feel like people are more open about it. So they, they, they, they, they leave. They can't. Carrie's really hungry. And Carrie's really, like, just rolling her eyes a lot at Samantha. Like, I'm so hungry, I've got to get out of here. She wants to go to a Thai restaurant. Samantha's like, no. So then Carrie decides that the way to cheer herself up is to go to do bank about and try to buy some beautiful fluffy shoes. Well, guess what? They decline her credit card. And not only that, they chop it in half, which is super mortifying. Now, one of my producers for the podcast said to me, like, can you believe Carrie's not good with money? And I'm like, yes, I can believe Carrie's not good with money. This is A through line. And it's gonna be true forever. Okay? And the reason that Carrie's not good with money, in my mind, is that Carrie is a creative. And this is a fundamental thing about Carrie that I think people forget where they're like, why would she wear that? Well, she's wearing that. Cause she's a creative being. She's a writer. Her whole existence is a creative endeavor. She's researching things. She's thinking about things. She's wondering about things. As you guys know, she's investigating things. She's creative, right? That's what she is. She's not Sarah Jessica Parker, who's creative, but also very practical. She's Carrie. Carrie's not practical. No, no, no, no. She loves shoes. You know, as you guys know who's seen the show, this will come to be a big point later on when Carrie cannot buy her apartment because she has spent all of her income on shoes. And she comes to Charlotte and asks for her engagement ring, which I know is a very hotly contested episode. And we will get there, and I have a lot to say. But in the meantime, here we are seeing the very first signs of it. In episode one, she tries to buy these shoes. They cut her credit card really meanly in half. I don't even know if they do this anymore. But I do remember being afraid that it would happen to me in life, right? And I don't think it ever did. But I remember being afraid. At which point she runs into this fantastic character named Amalita. Now, many people have asked me about Amalita ever since this episode aired many hundred years ago. And I'm always like, amalita, Amalita. I only vaguely remember her watching this. I was so impressed by Carol Davis. No relation to me that I know of, though we could be sisters, but I don't think we are. But she's incredible. So incredible. And she plays this very worldly, fantastic woman who's beautifully dressed and has all these boyfriends in different countries and knows everywhere to go in all the different countries. And when I watched it, I thought, you know, this is almost like an influencer. Back before we had influencers. Like, she's one of those people where they know everything. They're just fabulous. Like, everything they do is fabulous, right? So Amalita says, I'm gonna buy your shoes for you because you are like a sister to me. And Carrie's like, I never see her, and I've only met her a few times. This is in voiceover, of course. It's all very interesting, but Amalita, to Me. Seems like she's got really good vibes, you know, and she's just like, I will buy this for you. And here's my boyfriend, my rich boyfriend. And he has a tiny, tiny, you know what? But he knows how to use it. At which point I'm just like, oh, my God, we're so funny. Our show's so funny. And I forget all these things. You know, back in the olden days, we used to sell this stuff. So she buys her these show shoes. Carrie also tells the camera that Almelita is Euro trash. I don't know if we say this anymore, you guys. I don't know if it's okay to say this. I feel like maybe it's not. But Carrie says it without. Without judgment. This is another moment where I really think through this whole episode, Carrie is remarkably judgment free up until, like, the end of this episode. And then you see a little bit of her going like, no, thank good. But anyway, we'll get to that. So then Carrie. Carrie lets her buy her shoes. Now, look, I think the reason that Carrie lets her buy the shoes is because she's avoiding, like, you know, complete and total embarrassment of having her credit card cut up. And she really is fully addicted to shoes, as she later tells someone. And so for her, in a bad spot, this is, you know, like a little hit of dopamine, right? Like, she's getting some shoes, she's getting some new shoes. She's happy. So of course she's going to let her buy the shoes for her. Yes. Do I think that's a little weird? Sure. Would I let someone that I barely know buy me shoes? Probably no. Probably? No. No. Probably. No. But, you know, this is Carrie, and she's easygoing, especially back. Back in, you know, 1998. We're way easygoing. Okay, so then, oh, this is so good. Then we go. We go home with Gary, and she has a stack of bills and she throws them in her trash. Which, again, another one of our producers was like, can you believe she did that? And I'm like, yes, I can. She writes a column for a New York City newspaper, right? She's trying to buy fantastic shoes and clothes. She doesn't have money for her bills. This is how we meet Carrie. You know, she's evolved a lot, but this is who she was in the beginning for sure. So I was not surprised at all. And we do see that her address on the envelope is 243 E. 73rd St. Which I do believe is accurate in terms of the book that Candace wrote. And where the coffee shop was that we used to see. But we're no longer seeing the coffee shop. We're slowly moving into. You know, we haven't had the stoop yet. We're getting the different elements of carriness together. This particular episode, we see her in her closet, which is really fun. For me, at least, it was really fun to see her in her closet. And her bathroom's in the back. And we had so many scenes in those areas. It was a good time to see it. Okay, so we're in her apartment. She's throwing out her bills. Very adorable. She says, you know, the voiceover's back and looking at the camera is back. Which is interesting. Cause I thought that we already lost it. But no, it's back. So, again, this is something that I remember from the beginning. It seemed week to week that we didn't really know who we were as a show, you know, so sometimes when you're watching these episodes, things flip back and forth and you're like, oh, right, we didn't know. Like, was it gone? Was the talking to camera gone? No, no, it's not gone. It's back. So whatever was going on with that is interesting. So she says in her voiceover that she envies Amalita. And then she says to the camera, where is the line between a professional girlfriend and professional? So this is interesting to me because I feel like in 2025, I feel like the idea of people who engage in work for sex, sex for work, sex workers. It's just a lot more freedom to talk about freedom to. To, like, take them seriously, not to judge them. You know, we have this movie Anora, who's up for an Oscar, may win an Oscar. Very. About a young woman trying to live in New York engaging in stripping and sex work. We've got Pink Pony Club by Chapel Roan. Very openly about, you know, having fun up on the stage at her high heels. I mean, I feel like we've come a long way. But the interesting thing that I think here, back. Back in our show in 1998, is that Carrie's talking about it. She's not really judging it. She's just discussing, like, is there a line between professional girlfriend and professional? Is there not, you know, where do I fall on that line? Where do I want to fall? I love that. And I think we're going to have so many interesting conversations with the Redfin app. You'll know the moment your next place hits the market, whether you're looking to buy your dream home or rent a sweet apartment. Give Redfin your Got to have it wish list of property features and you'll receive real time notifications tailored just for you. Ready to see it up close and personal? Scheduling a tour is just a tap away. Don't wait to find your perfect match. Download the Redfin app and start searching today. For some reason, we play poker at Carrie's, which I. I don't know how this happened. I'm like, what? What do we know? How to play poker. Did anyone at that table know how to play poker? Because I definitely didn't. Uh, many people have tried to teach me since then. It's never stuck. But, you know, clearly we're trying to play poker for some reason. I don't know whose idea this was. It's super interesting. So we're there. We start discussing the power of female sex. Women can use their sexuality to get ahead wherever possible, but men shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of it. This is kind of one of the ideas that's in there, which is super interesting, right? At which point Charlotte says, hmm, well, what if someone just says, you're charming? She kind of like floats this idea out there gently as she does. And it turns out that there's an artist. Cause, you know, Charlotte's whole beginning storyline is in my mind, largely about her love of art and that she works in a gallery. And, you know, in the pilot, she goes to see the Ross Speckner. That's why she goes to the guy's apartment, that she then leaves. You know, like, there's art, art, art, art, right? So in this particular setting, this artist named Neville Morgan, who's definitely, definitely a fictional. Has come into her gallery and kind of gently flirted with her and invited her to come to his studio out in rural Connecticut, which you will see soon. And basically Miranda says to her, if he asks you to hold his paintbrush, you know, let's sue him, because that's the only way to use power as a woman. Something like that. Which is so Miranda. Right? So Miranda. And obviously Samantha has a lot of other things to say, which is also interesting. And she's gonna say more soon, too. I literally could take just clips of Miranda and Samantha discussing female sexuality and power and play them and discuss only them for an entire podcast, I think, because it's super interesting. But at this point, Skipper shows up. Skipper. This episode made me laugh out loud so hard. He is so funny in such a short amount of time. I mean, also in the pilot, I laughed out loud because he, you know, when he comes to the bar, and then she pushes him up against the bar. It's just like a funny dynamic to me. So Skipper comes to pick her up. He's an hour early. It's, like, so embarrassing for him, I think, but. And Miranda's just. I literally could not roll her eyes more. There's a lot of eye rolling in this episode, which I also really, really enjoyed. So she goes off with Skipper for a date with a lot of eye rolls. Carrie tries to go to bed, and I think she has an eye mask on, which is also adorable and very horror. And we see many of it as. As they come. And Amalita calls and wants her to get back down there to Balzac, which is funny. So she goes. And she's reading, which is great. She's reading a Martin Amos book. It's called Night Train. I'm sure that Sarah Jessica has something to do with the book. Sarah Jessica, I'm sure, you know, is a huge, huge reader. Martin Amos, super, super smart, fascinating writer. I don't know exactly what it is. Apparently, it's a detective type of a murder mystery, which seems odd, but, you know, I think she probably reads a lot of different things. So we go back down this hostess wearing a different hat. She says, you're not on the list. But Amalita is there with the $12,000 bracelet that she's showing off. And she brings Carrie in, at which point she meets Gilles, who is an architect from Paris. I had such Petrovsky type ideas while this was going on. It's like an early, early, early version. They have, like, kind of a, you know, European kind of a whirlwind thing with a handsome, you know, guy from another country. I don't know. Reminded me of that. So Carrie feels interested, though. She says, you know, I see some red flags. Divorced, French and uncomfortably handsome. I just want to say none of those would be red flags for me. I mean, that's funny to me, that Carrie would flag those, but not flag, you know, a lot of other things with a lot of other people. But, okay, okay, let's go with it. Okay, then. There's a bunch of questions on my thing here, but I'm gonna ignore them and I'm gonna keep talking. All right, this is where something super fascinating happens. So Carrie is walking down Fifth Avenue with Gilles, and it's beautiful. You can tell that the weather's starting to turn nice. We always went to film in, like, February, roughly, and our show would come on roughly in June. So for those first, like, February, March, it could be bitter, bitter cold. But it didn't matter. We had to still wear little dresses. So you can see everyone's kind of got, like, light coats in this episode. Whereas in the pilot or in the first episode, when we come back, we've got, like, wool coats, like, hardcore coats. Now we've got little light coats. And the trees are in bloom. So for me, I'm like, oh, thank goodness the trees are in bloom. It's gonna be warm soon. It's gonna be beautiful. So they're walking down the street and they have a very sweet conversation where she kind of confesses to him that she has, like, an addiction. And he looks like, oh, and she goes, you know, to beautiful shoes. It's very sweet and charming, and he's very sweet and charming to her. And then she basically says something to the effect. The effect that she is floating and she actually floats, which is so weird. And I don't remember this. And I don't know how they did it. Like, I don't know if she was up high and the camera, like, comes down under her, because I don't think they put her on wires on Fifth Avenue, because I feel like I would remember that. Right? But it's like a little bit of magical realism in our show there. I'm not sure why, you know, I'm not sure what the thinking was. I have no memory of it, but I think it's kind of sweet. I mean, kind of maybe a little cheesy, but also kind of sweet because Carrie is so easily transported into being, like, levitating, basically, which is adorable by this handsome Frenchman. So also, oh, we're gonna come soon. To me going to Connecticut. I'll wait to tell you. But there's a connection between the lovely actor who plays Gilles and the lovely actor who plays my artist guy. But I'll get there in a second. So now we're at Carrie's, and she makes a date with the Frenchman. The next day, she's there. She's getting ready for this date. Skipper comes over because he wants to talk about Miranda. Now, thing that really caught my attention is that he does not get buzzed in. Now, the reason I bring this up is because there's an episode of and just like that, where someone comes over to Carrie's apartment, also doesn't get buzzed in. And the Internet went crazy. People. The Internet was like, how could they get in there without being buzzed in? People were texting me, how could that character get in there without being buzzed in? I was like, wow, you guys need to relax. Okay. My gosh. Now, in Reality, Yes. Most buildings in New York have either doorman or a buzzer or some kind of system, right? So it's true. You can't just really walk up stairwells to people's apartment. Hopefully, at least. But Skipper somehow does. So he rings her little doorbell. She goes the door, she answers it. She's only partly dressed for her date. She's like, come on in. I'm getting dressed. Skipper very politely comes in, sits on the bed, doesn't look at her. She's getting dressed in her closet, which is right behind her bedroom, as you guys probably know. But it is kind of adorable. And you think to yourself, gosh, do Skipper and Carrie know each other this well? That she would just go ahead getting dressed? And I also think it's kind of. This is like the bohemian Carrie. This is like Carrie. You know, we're all much younger, right? So it's like her bohemian self. Like, yeah, Skipper, sit there and I'll just get dressed. Like, she walks through the room in her skirt and her bra. We don't really see this later. Do you know what I'm saying? But it's interesting. It's almost like we're in college. Like, I watch this episode, and I'm like. It's kind of like maybe we just got out of college last year. Like, we're new to the city. I don't know. I just get those vibes when I watch it. But anyway, Skipper's there, and he says to Gary that, you know, he's just obsessed with Miranda. It's so adorable. I mean, it really is so cute. He thinks he's addicted to her. She's all he can think about. He only gets to have sex with her in the afternoon, and he doesn't shower after this made me laugh so hard because Sarah Jessica is so brilliant. She's touching him when he says this. At which point she looks down. There's a few beats. She slowly lets go of his hand. And the next thing you see, she's washing her hands, which is so funny. Like, it's just very subtly done with her really incredible comic timing. So it's pretty funny. And the funny thing that Carrie says is, she says, I really think that you should spend the night with her and not have sex. It's really important. And I'm like, wow, who is this woman? Interesting relationship advice in terms of the fact that Miranda is not going to be going for this. So I feel like, you know, maybe that's not great advice to give to Skipper because it's not going to Go well. It's not going to go well at all, but nonetheless, she gives the advice. So then Carrie goes out on this incredible afternoon montage with Gilles. They go to literally all of my favorite places in Central Park. At one point, she's sitting on the Alice in Wonderland sculpture near the boat pond. You know, she's on the promenade in the park. I mean, it's, like, glorious. And the park is looking so beautiful. She's wearing a slightly insane outfit that I think involves possibly, like, a feather boa or a feather trim jacket. It's very trippy. But in general, stylistically, I feel like we're really starting to see Carrie in this episode. She has some fantastic dresses. Also, Amalita is dressed beautifully, like, Samantha is dressed beautifully. There's a. I can see that Pat Field is working her. Her way in there, you know, which is great to see. Okay, so they go on this whole montage y type date, and she makes out with him. And then she says something like, I have a rule that I don't sleep with a man that I haven't known more than a day. But then she goes ahead, which is kind of funny, which I'm like, I didn't know you had any rules. But, you know, it's all very interesting. So she sleeps with the lovely Frenchman, and then she wakes up in the very, very posh hotel, and he tells her how beautiful she looks while she's sleeping, but that he can't slee stay because he has a plane to catch. And then he says, I'll call you. And later on, she realizes that she doesn't have his number and he doesn't have her number, which is also really interesting. Like, how did they find each other the next day? I don't know. It's very different, obviously, in 1998 than it is now. So he leaves, and he says, stay, stay. Have room service. And she says, okay. And then she realizes that he's left her a note. She goes, oh, but he left me a note. So she opens the envelope, and there is, in fact, a piece of paper, but there's also $1,000. I don't remember this at all, you guys. It is, wow. Fascinating to think about and really, really interesting and also really pretty mortifying. Like, I think I would definitely die a million deaths if that ever happened to me. But I also feel like he was so sweet to her, and she told him about her money problems, right? I think she told him, like, I have an addiction to shoes, you know? I don't think she told him that her Bills were sitting on her. On her table, but. And that she threw them away. But, you know, she. She shares. And he says something like, oh, doesn't writing pay well? She's like, no, no, it does. Which is, like, funny also. But, you know, it's all very interesting. So maybe he's just leaving her some money to buy some shoes. Like, I didn't necessarily think that he meant it like, yes, I thought you were a prostitute. I do not think that he thought that she was a prostitute. Okay, that seems weird to me. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it was just that that actor did a really good job. So what I was gonna tell you about that actor. His name is Ed Fry. He was on a soap opera in New York called Another World, as was Charles Keating, who plays my artist, and you guys. So was I on that soap opera. I had a recurring part on that soap opera right after college. And the reason I remember it is that, first of all, I used to love to watch it. I don't know if you guys know what soap operas are, because I don't think they're really a thing anymore, but there used to be soap operas in New York and soap operas in la, and it was a great job if you could get it, because you got to go to work, like, every day or whatever, you know, it was like, you know, 60 minutes a day of show, right? So, like, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, every day had an hour of that show on. And when you were little, those of us who are my age, you know, your moms might watch these things, right? So, like, if you got to stay home from school, you could maybe watch the soap operas with your mom. It was a really dramatic. And I remember being super fond of them and thinking, like, yes, I could be on a soap opera. That would be great. That. That was something that I thought would be fantastic, Right? When I got out of college and I went on there and I did really, really enjoy it. Wait, are you finding it? Easton? Is it on there? What was my name? My name was Paige, you guys. Thank you. My producer, Easton looked it up. My name was Paige. Don't ask me what I did. I have no idea. I just remember being there, and then it was very exciting. And isn't it strange and funny that two actors from that show, Charles Keating, was on that show a long time? He was a mainstay of Another World, and he was a lovely, lovely actor. So, anyway, funny and strange to me to realize this when I'm looking back on it, I don't think I realized it then. Okay, they're in the hotel room. Carrie calls Miranda and Samantha to come over. They come over and they order just a whole bunch of food because they're going to spend the Frenchman's money. And they have a very fascinating conversation that I literally would play for you guys if I could right now, but I don't have it. They discuss money. Money is power. Sex is power. Money for sex is simply an exchange for power. I believe Samantha says that, I think. And then Miranda is like, no, you know, don't give away your power. You know, you want to have your own power. And they kind of overlap each other, which is also kind of unheard of in our show and something that we didn't get to do much of as the years went on. But I really love the whole conversation, and I think that is very interesting back then, and I think it's very interesting now. And now. Like, I don't know if you guys feel this way, but sometimes when I'm talking to people, like. Like, for instance. Well, I shouldn't mention anyone, but, for instance, sometimes I talk to people about dating and dating in New York, Louisiana, wherever. And people talk about that younger women are into status, that they're like, they might be dating the older guy for status and money or power. I think something to that effect. And I believe Blakely and I talked about this last week because people had a lot to say on the Instagram about, you know, whether men who have status and power care at all about what women think someone thinks they don't. And I was like, lol. That's what I said. Because, you know, I think everyone wants to be loved. This is what I think. But obviously I play Charlotte, right? So of course I would think that. But to my mind, everyone wants to be loved. Like, truly, deeply loved. Maybe it's more important to some people and less important to others. But even men with status and money want to be loved. I'm just sure they do. I mean, do they probably do what they want anyway? Yes, they probably do. But I do think that people in general, men and women, want to be loved, Right? But I also think sometimes that women have been socialized to think that they need to achieve a certain status and that that status might be based on what man they were dating or what that man has or drives or what his job is. And to me, I think that's kind of sad. Only because when that man changes his mind, what is that woman gonna be left with? And I always feel like, do not depend on a man for your financial well being. That's my personal advice in general. I know I'm getting into terrible, terrible territory at this point, but whatever. But I love these conversations because I do think it's still very, very, very interesting to talk about men and women and money and sex and power and the exchange of that. And I love the kind of liveliness with which it is discussed in the episode then. Oh, Lord. Oh Lord. We cut to Charlotte and Charlotte is out in the woods in Connecticut. She's gone to see this artist who she thinks that she's gonna get to represent. Now we don't exactly say this, but when it says something like Charlotte's coup, I think it says that's because she's. It's like a big get to get to be summoned by this artist out to his stud in the rural wilds of Connecticut. So she goes in and he gives this incredible little monologue about the source of all life and pleasure and beauty that is really like, wow. And I really enjoyed and I feel like we should like print it out and put it somewhere. But he gives this very beautiful speech while the lights are still kind of off in his kind of barnstudio. And Charlotte's just standing there like wide eyed, like, wow, you know, what's he gonna show me? And then he, when he goes on for a while about the, you know, the power and the source of all life, it turns out that these are very much Georgia O'Keeffe inspired paintings that could be flowers, but they're not. There's something that he uses a C word for that I'm not going to use, okay, because I draw the line, as does Charlotte. But that word just starts getting thrown around right and left, just right and left. And Charlotte's just like, oh, God. And then his wife comes in and she also uses the C word, which is also very, very prescient of things to come in the show. I don't know if you guys remember, like we had have kind of older couples who teach sex courses and things coming. I mean, like, oh, I had many flashes in my mind when, when I was watching this episode of, of these very interesting, you know, kind of bohemian, ish, artsy types of older couples who have a lot to say and teach us people about sexuality and, and free use of, of the C word. I'm sure you guys know what I mean, but I'm definitely not going to say it. I just don't think I can. I just don't think I can. It does remind me also of Pat Field, though. Because the highest compliment for Pat Field is to say that something is C u n T Y. That was, like, high praise. Okay? But when she would kind of, like, shout it at you in her deep voice, it always seemed a little scary, but she really meant that as a compliment. Like, that was a big, big, big compliment. If you could get that compliment from Pat Field. So basically, this artist asked Charlotte if she will pose for him, and she doesn't exactly say yes, but it kind of seems like she might say yes because the wife is there helping, which I think gives Charlotte some sense of safety, though, literally. I cannot imagine that she does this. I mean, I think she does this based on the show. But, like, I don't know how that went down. I. I don't understand it at all. And it also made me think of, you know, coming up soon, I think, is when Charlotte decides to. To look at her own private parts. Do you guys remember this? And I fall off the bed, which is one of the many times I've fallen off a bed in this show. It's always really fun to do. I did it not too long ago. It's an enjoyable thing to do. But that's coming. I don't know what season is coming. So I guess this is like a journey for Charlotte of discovery, I guess. And for whatever reason, maybe it's because it's art. Okay. She's like, okay, for the art. I can do this for the art. And then later, you're going to see the gallery showing at her gallery, which is a big deal for her, right? So she is thinking about her own career advancement. Like, I think that is her goal. Like, I'm gonna make a name for myself in the art world, and this is one way to do it. And it's secret that I posed, right? So all the friends come, and they're all trying to guess which painting is her. And I do vaguely remember being vaguely embarrassed and just trying to roll with it. Like, just like the Taxi Cab, you know, last episode. I'm not gonna say either. You know, I'm just like, okay, they're writing for me. I've just gotta, you know, seem like I'm game. I've just gotta make it work somehow. I'm sure that I was using all of my actor substitutions in my mind, right? Like, what kind of risky thing would I do for my job? Something like doing a crazy storyline on a show that I really want to be on, right? Like, I'm probably using the very thing that's happening in life for My substitution for Charlotte storyline, it's very similar because I'm just like, I need. Storyline. I'm gonna go with this slightly insane thing that they're writing for me. Because I'm just really, really happy that they're writing something for me. Okay, cut Back to the show. We're back at Pretend Balthazar. Samantha and Carrie show up again. And the hostess is there with a different hat. You guys, it's amazing. They think they're gonna get in because Carrie has already been there. But no, no, no, it is not easy. Amalita is there. She invites Carrie to come to the Venice Film Festival with a whole new group of handsome men who are this time from Italy. But one of them puts his arm around Carrie. And then kind of the arm slips down in a way. Carrie does not like this. So I was really pleased to see this, like, Carrie kind of, you know, getting her sense of self there and realizing, no, you know, she's gonna have her morals. Her voiceover says, like, you know, I realize, like, there's a line between what I'm willing to do and what I'm not willing to do. So then she goes to the bathroom. She politely excuses herself. She goes to the bathroom. The hostess is there, and she looks all vulnerable, and she needs a tampon. And it's so cute because Carrie's like, yes, I have one. And then after that, they always get into the restaurant. So it's good. It's like women on each other's side, you know, it all works out. Then at the very end, we are at the art gallery. The friends are there. Unfortunately, Stanford's not there. I was really hoping this was the art gallery scene where Stanford was there. But I think that's coming later. But the girls are there. Everyone's trying to guess which one of these paintings might be Charlotte. And I tell Carrie in her ear, which one is me? And she tells, I think Samantha. And I'm just like, oh, my God, this is so mortifying. But, you know, I'm standing there and I'm looking, I'm looking. I'm looking pleased, and I'm giggly, whatever. And I think a lot of it was, like, just being game, you know, like, you're in this show, the show doesn't know what it is. We're figuring it out together. And I feel like everyone. Most definitely, Sarah Jessica. Cause she's talking to that camera again. You know, she's floating up in the air. She's like, we're doing so much stuff. You know, it's very interesting to me. Now, one of my favorite things, just from a personal note, is that in that art gallery, Sarah is wearing this kind of kimono robe that has like paillettes on it. This is a robe that still exists in Carrie's closet. And just like that. And I feel like I just saw it like a couple weeks ago. So for me it was adorable. Cause I thought it was only a robe that she wore at home. But no, she wears this out to the art gallery, which again, is bohemian Carrie. It's creative Carrie. I love it. We're seeing her stylistically, you know, come into her own in so many ways. So I think that this episode is so interesting. And this is when I'm like, could I just have a forum of fans that I could talk to about this? Because I would love to hear your guys thoughts. Like, what do you think about female sex and the different forms it takes in the episode? Like, you know, Miranda sees, you know, she's got the power over Skipper, right? And Skipper says, oh, I'm addicted to her, you know, obviously. And then, you know, Charlotte, you know, willing to be painted by this artist so that she can advance her thing. Amalita's. Her whole way of life is like, you know, this is what I do. I have these, you know, handsome rich men and I go where they want and I have beautiful jewelry and I have a wonderful life. And isn't it great? And you know, it seems to be working great for her, right? Is that cool? What do you think? And then like, Carrie, you know, has to kind of decide do I want to be that or do I want to not be that and kind of, you know, try to afford my shoes but not be able to and get my credit card cut up. Like, it's to me, very interesting kind of conundrum that many, many people go through, men and women really, you know, honestly. And I think it's still going on. So I'm super curious what you guys think and I'm really hoping that maybe you'll tell me. I also want to think this is reminding me a little bit of one comment that we got from last week. Week, which is someone went on and said when we were talking about the valley of the 20 something guys and they said that when Blakely and I were talking about the roommate and how that was a deal breaker, which I think is. Is what we said. We said something like that. And they were like, oh, you know, you guys ruined it for us. And I wish I knew how old these, these, these people were who commented, right? Because I want to know, are they in their 20s? Right. Because this is interesting. Things have changed, for sure. And there's a lot of people, people who don't, you know, get to live by themselves because the economy is wacky and, you know, Covid happened and so many things happened. Right. So I think probably a lot of people do have roommates that wouldn't probably have had roommates in 1998. Right. And the whole idea of Valley of the 20 something guys is Timothy Olafan's character and his friends are in their 20s. Right. And Carrie and her friends were in our 30s. So there is supposed to be this generational gap happening in the episode, and it seems like we possibly touched on it too much. That made people feel upset about it, I guess. And I think that's a very interesting thing to talk about now because I still think it's true, probably even more true, that there are these generational gaps. And that's part of the reason I wanted to do the podcast is because we've been so lucky to get to do the show since 1998, 1997, which is a very long time. Obviously. We've seen so many social trends and changes and, and, you know, the way people talk about sex and relationships and dating apps. I mean, so many different things have changed, but yet still there do seem to be these, these gaps between generations where maybe there's misunderstandings. And I'm super interested by that. And certainly what happens when you're trying to date across those gaps is also really interesting. So write some more on the Instagram. You guys tell me your thoughts. You can always write in on the podcast page too. Cause that's cool. Thank you for being with me. We are going to have a really fun guest next week. I can't wait. And thank you for joining me for Rui Charlotte. Bye. Hey, sis, it's Dr. Joy from Therapy for Black Girls. We've had 400 episodes of Conversations, Growth and Healing. So we're celebrating. Join us for a special episode with internationally recognized yogi Chelsea Jackson Roberts as she shares wisdom on mindfulness, movement, and motherhood. I waited later to have children, and I still have exactly what I knew that I wanted. You don't want to miss this special episode. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, here's the thing, I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating people like writer and actor Dan Aykroyd. I love writing more than anything. You're left alone. You know, you do three hours in the morning, you write three hours in the afternoon. Go pick up a kid from school and write at night. And after nine hours, you come out with seven pages and then you're moving on. And actor and comedian Jack McBrayer. The most important aspect is the collaboration with people that I like, I trust are talented. That has been the most amazing gift to me about this crazy business that we've chosen. Meeting these people who have such diverse talents and you're able to create something together. Listen to here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.