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Kristen Davis
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Okay, let's talk about the ultimate main character moment. You know the feeling. You wake up, the light is hitting your living room just right, and instead of rushing out the door, fighting traffic and battling for a parking spot at a crowded studio, you just transition from sleep mode to me mode without even leaving your sanctuary. This is the magic of your Reformer. I just got one of these you guys, and it is so beautiful and I put it in my bedroom where the kids aren't there so that I can just literally do it whenever I'm getting ready. I can just take 10, 20 minutes, get a little workout in. It's amazing. And every Reformer purchase includes access to your Reformer app, which has over 1,000 instructor led on demand workouts. You get your first three months free on the app and you can start with confidence, expert instruction and all the tools and accessories you need to progress at your own pace. Oh, and did I mention it's a gorgeous piece of furniture as well. It really is. You guys not quite ready to invest. You can actually rent your Reformer for your home for only $39 a week. That is less than the average cost of a studio class your Reformer delivers to your home within seven days across the mainland USA. Visit YourReformer.com use the code are you a Charlotte 200 to receive $200 off your purchase, your space, your pace, your Reformer Pleasure Technology has come a long way since the days of Charlotte Yorke's rabbit addiction. Leading the way is Womanizer. World famous for its line of suction toys. Womanizer is the original inventor of what is known as Pleasure Air technology. It enables the stimulation of sensitive nerve endings with the help of gentle massaging air vibrations so that women can reach an orgasm in a very short time and often several times. So far, 98% of users who have tried a Womanizer product were able to climax. Their latest invention, the Womanizer Enhance, combines their signature air technology with traditional vibrations. It is also the first toy to reach 100% orgasm rate during its user testing phase with a range of toys across varying price points and a five year warranty. Whether you are playing solo or with a partner, a Womanizer product is the best thing you can add to your self care routine. Use Code Charlotte that's C H A R L O T T E and go to womanizer.com spelled womanizer w a n I z r.com for 20% off site wide I am obsessed with Hill House Home, the brand behind the viral nap dress with the signature smocking that's incredibly flattering. Unbelievably comfortable and so versatile. I can wear the same one running errands by day and out to dinner at night. I just got one the other day from them. It's pink, it's flowy. I love it so, so much.
Cynthia Nixon
You could just put on some flip
Kristen Davis
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Cynthia Nixon
Michael Patrick is here. You guys.
Kristen Davis
We've just jumped, right? The glorious return of the king.
Michael Patrick King
This is the return of. Are you with Charlotte and me?
Kristen Davis
That's right. We love it so much.
Cynthia Nixon
And he asked me how long we were gonna go and I said as long as he wants to talk. Because this whole season when I saw you, we talked.
Michael Patrick King
We're in season back in the olden days.
Cynthia Nixon
No, like a week ago or whatever. Like at the human rights. Beautiful time that we were honoring you.
Michael Patrick King
Human Rights Campaign.
Cynthia Nixon
So exciting. The Human Rights Campaign. Thank you so much.
Kristen Davis
You said that you were gonna help
Cynthia Nixon
me with my season four amnesia.
Michael Patrick King
Yeah.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
You wanna start there?
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
Kristen Davis
Cause I don't know why I have it.
Michael Patrick King
I love season four.
Cynthia Nixon
Oh, I love season four too.
Michael Patrick King
I love Sex and the City season four. Me too.
Cynthia Nixon
I love it too. In my mind, it was one with season three.
Michael Patrick King
Yeah.
Cynthia Nixon
Do you know what I mean?
Michael Patrick King
In my mind, people always say to me, oh, I wanna do Sex and the City again. Like, I love Sex and the City. And I always go, you love Sex and the City season four. That's where it peaked.
Cynthia Nixon
Definitely.
Michael Patrick King
In terms of its Clari. One was like, what? Totally finding it. And then two and three. But Four is like you. You all are so strong and so vibrant, and the writing has gotten to such a place where there's so many exciting twists and turns and so many amount that we talked about. So much the changing of Charlotte. The changing of Charlotte. So much the changing of Miranda.
Kristen Davis
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
The amount of bravery in the writing room.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Kristen Davis
Oh, no joke.
Cynthia Nixon
It's incredible.
Michael Patrick King
It is not. It is like, what would really happen. Let's feel that and follow that.
Cynthia Nixon
This reminds me of something that I wanted to talk to you about when. So what I remember, and I know that most shows don't have this, and it was such a joy that you would sit us down.
Kristen Davis
Hi, darling.
Cynthia Nixon
It's Michael Patrick King.
Kristen Davis
You guys, we're in. Okay, we're in.
Cynthia Nixon
Remember how you would call us and. Or have lunch with us, depending on
Michael Patrick King
what season for each season? I gave you the out of town tryout.
Cynthia Nixon
Exactly.
Michael Patrick King
Here's what I'm thinking. For Charlotte.
Cynthia Nixon
Right. And it was such a joy because most executive producer showrunners do not do that to their actors for their actors, which is so insane to me.
Michael Patrick King
You know, it's interesting because if you're on a show that is working or our show, so much of what we're doing is for you, the actress.
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
So much is based on your version of Charlotte in seasons one, two, and three that I always felt I not only owed it to you, but I wanted a temperature check from you about whether you were gonna be excited about where we were going. And also, I loved bringing you. Surprise. Surprise.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah. It was so exciting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michael Patrick King
But it was really a tribute to you guys that I wanted you as partners emotionally in the arc of these characters that we created together.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
But literally, it wasn't like, go to work. Do these lines.
Cynthia Nixon
No.
Michael Patrick King
Not on that show. Because we were literally taking from you. What can you do? What can we do with that? What would be so great is if Charlotte couldn't get pregnant and Miranda did. I'm talking about coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
The idea of that contrast is based on both your strengths as an actor and also your connection as people. By this point.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
You all were sort of in love with each other, so it was really easy to play the hurt when the friendships didn't connect.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah. And always so scary to. I remember just being so nervous about that. If we ever had the disagreements, because we did have. It was threat. Felt threatening just personally, because I did. You know, we loved each other, and we.
Michael Patrick King
I think by season four, if it's going well, you Believe your character. You believe it. So it's all very personal.
Cynthia Nixon
It's so personal.
Michael Patrick King
Everything's personal.
Cynthia Nixon
Totally.
Kristen Davis
So when it's hard for me to
Cynthia Nixon
remember the first time, I feel like it would have been. I feel. I don't Remember pre season 2A sit down, though. Maybe it happened and I don't remember it. I don't know. I remember season three when we were really having the long arcs conversations.
Michael Patrick King
Yeah.
Cynthia Nixon
And the long conversations about the long arcs. Right.
Michael Patrick King
I think it became important when we started to deviate from the log line.
Cynthia Nixon
Yep.
Michael Patrick King
For sexy singles in Manhattan.
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
Michael Patrick King
The minute we started going, what would happen to Charlotte? And I said, Charlotte would get married. This is bullshit. That she isn't gonna just drive that car to some wedding. Cause it's time. And that's when we started having to say, I know what we started with, but here's what we're thinking. And then I could see these, like, out of town tryouts in your eyes. I could see the lighting up, which was necessary for me to keep going.
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
Michael Patrick King
Because it was always before they were written.
Cynthia Nixon
Right. It was just the plan. Like the whiteboard. Got it.
Michael Patrick King
The math each season.
Cynthia Nixon
And did you talk to HBO about that too? Or did you wait and turn in the scripts? How did that work?
Michael Patrick King
I talked to you guys first.
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
Michael Patrick King
And then I talked to them.
Cynthia Nixon
Cool.
Michael Patrick King
But I wanted to have a strong emotional connection first. It starts in the writing room. We all sort of fall in love or fall out of love with the story that we were doing. And that is the first jury room. It's like we all put the stories on trial. And then when I feel really strong about that, I bring them to you. And then I see you as an audience hybrid actor playing this part, react.
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
Michael Patrick King
And then that's everything.
Kristen Davis
Got it.
Michael Patrick King
And then I go and say, this is what we're doing.
Cynthia Nixon
Got it.
Michael Patrick King
I don't audition the season or the studio.
Kristen Davis
Got it.
Michael Patrick King
We're always very, very interesting, you know?
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you remember the time? And this would have been. This would have been fourth season. See, in my mind, I had crunched third season and fourth season into one. I think also because we were doing so many episodes. Right. It was a lot.
Michael Patrick King
It was television.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah. The olden days. Exactly. Exactly. Like 18. Was it 18 for each?
Michael Patrick King
I feel like sometimes.
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
Cynthia Nixon
I feel like four was 18 and three. Both 18.
Michael Patrick King
Yeah.
Kristen Davis
Crazy.
Michael Patrick King
Right? Right.
Cynthia Nixon
So great. And they're just. Each one is packed, packed, packed with plot for each character. Like, it's so good.
Michael Patrick King
Yeah.
Cynthia Nixon
So.
Michael Patrick King
And 30 minutes I mean, insane.
Cynthia Nixon
Like what you guys could accomplish writing
Michael Patrick King
of all those storylines. And with Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
It was the ideal thing because we always tried to find a story where everybody could react based on who they are.
Kristen Davis
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
So Miranda getting pregnant was both comic because of the Steve 1 ball runner and unbelievable that we would risk that.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
Give the one who was the least maternal in our eyes, the mother contrasting hard crash into Charlotte's inability to become pregnant.
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
Michael Patrick King
And then the very, very ballsy thing, which is this episode's about abortion.
Cynthia Nixon
Right. And tell us about that. How did you talk about in the writer's room? How did you talk about it with hbo? Was there worry?
Michael Patrick King
There was worry in the writing room and there was a necessity in the writing room to tell the story.
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
And the journey really was about people's personal touches to their friends who had had abortions or. I'm not saying anyone in the room had had abortions, but everyone had a situation that had touched their friendships or themselves about what would really happen and how people weren't talking about that.
Kristen Davis
Right.
Michael Patrick King
And there's a line in the show that I remember being radical. Is Samantha saying, I've had two. How many have you had?
Kristen Davis
Right.
Cynthia Nixon
I remember that. I mean, even rewatching, I'm like. Like, I don't remember every detail, but I was like, oh, my God, we're so brave.
Michael Patrick King
It was brave.
Cynthia Nixon
Right?
Michael Patrick King
I've had two. How many of you had. And Carrie actually takes a moment and goes, one. Like, what am I? You.
Cynthia Nixon
Right, right, right.
Michael Patrick King
The idea of saying I've had two as a legitimate sentence in a shell.
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
Michael Patrick King
Could you even say that now?
Cynthia Nixon
I don't think so. That's the other thing I wanted to ask you. Like, isn't it nutty how we. I felt at the time that we were doing something different and that it was going to help shift things in our, you know, TV landscape, cultural landscape. What was okay to talk about? And I feel like it did for a while. And then TV is kind of. Or streaming, whatever we're supposed to call it now has pulled. Pulled back from fear.
Michael Patrick King
The trick with us is we got in with, like, the comedy.
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
Of the. Of the sex.
Cynthia Nixon
Yep.
Michael Patrick King
And that was the shocking thing. But it was not just sex. It was funny sex.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
Sex with the laugh.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
So we slid in. That was the calling card.
Cynthia Nixon
Got it. Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
We like, hey, it's funny.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
You're laughing. And we're not asking you to be aroused. In fact, if you are aroused, there's Something wrong. Yeah, yeah. And then slowly we became to slip in other things that women were talking about and not talking about on television.
Cynthia Nixon
Right, but still they're not talking about
Michael Patrick King
on television for sure. Like, I'm not walking down the street after Hermes with a kerchief on her head.
Cynthia Nixon
I know.
Michael Patrick King
Saying, I've had two. What have you had?
Kristen Davis
Totally.
Michael Patrick King
You know, like the casual, sophisticated.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
Grown up. Real life. Real life, yeah. In a very stylized frame, of course. Real life.
Cynthia Nixon
And was anyone at HBO worried?
Michael Patrick King
No.
Cynthia Nixon
Which is we just had such.
Michael Patrick King
I mean, we had a wonderful, wonderful experience there. It was always, be you, don't even. Be tv.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
Be hbo.
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
Don't be that. Be whatever that is. And they followed us and they trusted us because we rarely went too far in any direction where it was. The audience got pushed away.
Cynthia Nixon
Well, that was the joy of having the different characters and the different perspectives.
Michael Patrick King
Well, yes, everyone's perspective makes the Miranda story tolerable for an enormous amount of people.
Cynthia Nixon
Right, right, right. And also, so, okay, I remember that at one point, it was at least
Kristen Davis
floated to me that we were both
Cynthia Nixon
going to get pregnant, and then we were going to contrast our different mothering styles. And then at a certain point, you called me and said, I'm really sorry, Charlotte's not gonna get pregnant. I was like, what? Like, because of course I wanted what Charlotte wanted, which was to get pregnant. Right. And you said that because no one was even really in relationships in the writer's room at that point, much less having children. Right. At that point in our lives, you were like, we just don't have enough story material to be contrasting.
Michael Patrick King
Yeah, samesies.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
Like, oh, you're pregnant's this, my pregnant's this. And it's so much more interesting for Charlotte to do her pregnancy through Miranda.
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
All the way to the baby shower.
Kristen Davis
Oh, yeah.
Michael Patrick King
You know, like how Charlotte would do the baby shower. So it's always better if you have one person experiencing something and everybody reacting to it. And we got Charlotte there eventually.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah, definitely, Definitely. But she needed to have a longer story.
Michael Patrick King
But it was so much more authentic, too.
Kristen Davis
I agree.
Cynthia Nixon
I agree totally.
Michael Patrick King
And the struggle was so good for you as an actor.
Cynthia Nixon
Definitely.
Michael Patrick King
So good for Charlotte.
Kristen Davis
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Cynthia Nixon
on the street because it is the first scene that Cynthia and I have just by ourselves. And I love it and it's so beautifully written and it's so beautifully filmed out there.
Kristen Davis
I believe we're on fifth Avenue with all kinds of people.
Cynthia Nixon
And I love her performance so much
Kristen Davis
and I love how she walks behind me. So it's really, really sweet. That's going to be my Hyundai hot take. Celebrating iconic moments, bold moves and unforgettable style. Just like Hyundai.
Cynthia Nixon
It is interesting to watch because you know, at the time I was watching everything and micro, you know, criticizing myself in my head. And now you know how I do that.
Kristen Davis
Yeah, I know it's hard for us.
Michael Patrick King
I feel bad for you. I know I feel bad for all actors. I mean I get the joy of writing them stuff and watching them do it and editing them and falling in love with them from a not inside them point of view. And I always say to actors, can you even see how good you are?
Cynthia Nixon
Not at the time.
Michael Patrick King
And they go, no. They look away and they don't feel it. They don't feel it. And it's so much a part of my journey job is to feel so excited and happy for the work that people have done. Like it's my favorite part of the job is to see people accomplish, even in the writing room, but to see people accomplish something amazing.
Cynthia Nixon
You're an excellent mentor.
Michael Patrick King
Thank you. I am.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
But actors can't ever step outside themselves and feel it the way the audience is. And I have called you so many times and said, did you watch the episode? No, I'll get to it. No, the kids have to be asleep. No, I won't. No, I can't. I won't be able to go to sleep if I watch it. I'm afraid to watch it.
Cynthia Nixon
It's true. All of it is true. All of it is true.
Michael Patrick King
And I feel that way with network notes.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
If they come in after 5 o' clock and I see an email, I'm like, I'm not reading those. I'll fall asleep. I can't fall asleep. I'll ruin my day tomorrow.
Cynthia Nixon
Totally, totally.
Michael Patrick King
But, like, I felt bad because I've also. I've called you and harassed you.
Cynthia Nixon
It's true.
Michael Patrick King
Imprint on you.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
How special it is.
Kristen Davis
Thank you.
Cynthia Nixon
And I appreciate that.
Kristen Davis
I appreciate that because I'm not lying. You know, you don't call.
Michael Patrick King
There's no purpose of me calling. And I feel it. And this episode is particularly thrilling.
Cynthia Nixon
I'm so glad you're here for this episode. Right. Because this is what goes on with me. And I think the joy, many joys of this podcast, one is that I get to have you here to talk about it.
Michael Patrick King
My joy, too.
Cynthia Nixon
Thank you. There's so many elements that, like, we weren't able to talk about at the time because we're just in it. Right. And it was so all encompassing.
Michael Patrick King
It's the distance to see it now. Yes.
Cynthia Nixon
That's what I said.
Michael Patrick King
Like, when I watched this yesterday, because I knew I was coming here, I was like, bang on all cylinders.
Kristen Davis
Agreed.
Michael Patrick King
There's jokes, there's pain, there's style. Yeah. It's beautifully filmed by David Frankel.
Cynthia Nixon
Oh, my God. Incredible.
Michael Patrick King
You know who went on to do Prada?
Kristen Davis
I know.
Michael Patrick King
And Prada too.
Cynthia Nixon
And Prada too. Which we're gonna talk about.
Michael Patrick King
I mean, it has an elegant film quality to it. It's very sure of itself, but yet surprising.
Cynthia Nixon
Definitely.
Michael Patrick King
And all that time has gone by and I still go, wow, me too.
Cynthia Nixon
Me too. And that's what I was gonna say about watching myself. Right. Because at the time we would get the VHS tapes, we would run home, put them in nervously.
Kristen Davis
Nervously.
Cynthia Nixon
Right. And there might be a card or there might be temp music or whatever, but still, it would be so thrill. When I'd come on, I'd be like, oh, I don't think I nailed that. You know, you're Just so critical.
Kristen Davis
Right.
Cynthia Nixon
I know. But now, 30 years almost later, I'm like, wow, I was so much better than I thought I was. And then every once in a while, I'm like, no, that's interesting.
Michael Patrick King
And I wonder. I wonder. I couldn't help but wonder exactly, is that part of the important mix that when you're doing it, you don't think you're good? Like, if you were good, would you be different?
Cynthia Nixon
I think you'd be less vulnerable.
Michael Patrick King
Yeah.
Cynthia Nixon
Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And that. That is.
Michael Patrick King
Sure.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
Less unsure.
Cynthia Nixon
Right. You have some unsure. You know, especially. It depends on your character, obviously. Right. But, like, if there's no vulnerability, like, even if you think about Meryl playing, you know, whatever her name is in the Miranda Priestley. Thank you. How could I forget? Weird that it's Miranda, you know, if she weren't Meryl and weren't playing all those layers, she. It wouldn't be as brilliant. It would be hard. Right. Like, you have to keep some kind of vulnerability unsure, you know, off. You're slightly off balance, you know, depending on the character, of course. But. But for me.
Michael Patrick King
Yeah. Well, now I've worked with you for so many amazing years. You know me better than I know vibrations of storytelling.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
That in this one too. I love it. You're gonna have to endure this. But I love it when the emotion overwhelms your performance. Like when you pick in this episode, when you take out the result and I wanna point out something. You take out the paper after you've. Coming from an infidelity moment.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
Good writing with the proof. And when you hold it up to her, you the actor, or you, the. Charlotte knew it was upside down when you took it out of your purse and you corrected it. You were in your moment.
Kristen Davis
You were really.
Michael Patrick King
And then your voice cracks.
Cynthia Nixon
I love that part. That part. Yes. There are other parts of that scene that I'm like, I could have done better.
Michael Patrick King
Okay.
Cynthia Nixon
But the thing that I love, they're also amazing. I mean, and I think they're also amazing.
Michael Patrick King
And the fact that we were able to swing that storyline over to Carrie and have it be a Carrie Aiden thing.
Cynthia Nixon
Forgotten that.
Michael Patrick King
And like, how a moment of shame.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
Michael Patrick King
Which is always so important.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
When a character suddenly realizes I'm ashamed of something.
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
Michael Patrick King
And then they have to admit it. Right. And then Corbett's so open. And then the weird trick of don't tell Steve. There's a lot of great knitting on that. Like, it's all knit together. Like, you can't get them apart. They're all great.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes. It's so great. And the thing that I was thinking about with that, which we've been, you know, this whole season, I'm like, what would Michael Patrick say about X or Y or Z? So you're here now, so I'm going to ask you when. So with the Aiden in general, I
Michael Patrick King
have a lot of opinions about X, Y and Z.
Cynthia Nixon
Thank God. So that's why we love you. So one of the reasons when Aiden comes back, it is so fascinating, right? Because like, we've. I've, you know, I'm rewatching. I'm having all different feelings about Big because time has passed and whatnot. And then I have a lot of different feelings about Aiden. I love Aiden and he's very complicated because Corbitt brings so much to him. Right. And you guys really open him up when he comes back. Like, he's less like the anti Big, which is kind of how he starts out. Right. But like, in this particular episode too, the complexities are just so much with. He doesn't have a lot, but it's. But she's. I feel her through line in this particular season at least is that she feels like he wants something slightly different. You know, it's like when she has to stop smoking the first time.
Michael Patrick King
Yeah.
Cynthia Nixon
Right. Did you guys perceive it that way?
Michael Patrick King
Yes.
Cynthia Nixon
Got it.
Michael Patrick King
He wanted a perfect image of her.
Cynthia Nixon
Got it.
Michael Patrick King
And an abortion doesn't go in that.
Cynthia Nixon
So. And would you connect it all back? Like, even from the beginning when she's like, I'm. Yes.
Michael Patrick King
Aiden wanted Carrie to be a certain way. And the struggle was. And it always. It carried all the way through to their eventual breakup on. And just like that.
Cynthia Nixon
That's what I thought.
Michael Patrick King
She wasn't ever going to be that way.
Cynthia Nixon
Interesting.
Michael Patrick King
And he tried and they both tried. And we all love people, but there's something in him. He says a line when he's there in the fountain when they're going to get after the party, and he says, I want to get a ring on it. I want to lock this down.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
And that was a very male line that I heard from one of the crew members.
Cynthia Nixon
Whoa.
Michael Patrick King
And I was like, oh, that's so male and so straight guy. You got to lock this down. You got to get a ring on it.
Kristen Davis
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
And Aiden has that quality. And the great thing about Corbett is he. It's not his main color. His main color is love and playfulness. But he brought all that and it sort of added to the don't disappoint me guy.
Kristen Davis
Right.
Michael Patrick King
So I couldn't date a smoker. That everybody understands. And then that puts in Carrie's mind, I can't be with someone who had an abortion. Even though he never said it.
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
Michael Patrick King
And he accepts it. And she actually says to him at that scene. Which I love. What I love about being able to write a show for years and grow the characters. And in a city you can put so much of real life in it. Like, the idea is, I've never seen another show where characters have to wait in line for a table.
Cynthia Nixon
So good.
Michael Patrick King
But then they have to wait in line for a bar.
Cynthia Nixon
Totally.
Michael Patrick King
Which then gives us the opportunity to do a cool scene where they're drinking beer out of bottles on the street. That idea of being able to do, like, how many times have I waited and just had to wait? And the odd non romance part of it, the casual big conversation rather than the big conversation, big scene. And the other thing that I love about writing is Carrie's man that she got pregnant from.
Cynthia Nixon
Oh, my God.
Michael Patrick King
At the saloon.
Kristen Davis
Incredible.
Michael Patrick King
I worked at the saloon. So in that era, I was one of those waiters at the saloon. So it was still there. And my biggest fear was that I would still be a waiter 20 years later. And so then we wrote a character who was still a waiter 20 years later.
Cynthia Nixon
It was like a knife to the gut.
Michael Patrick King
And here's the big personal story. When I worked at the saloon, I was an A day waiter, which they called AMS because you came in at 11 and you worked till 4.
Cynthia Nixon
Got it. You did not make the big money.
Michael Patrick King
The night waiters were called PMs.
Cynthia Nixon
Okay.
Michael Patrick King
And they would come in and dump attitude on the eight. Like, I would be cleaning the cappuccino thing, hitting the thing, and the PMs would come by and they would go like, hi. And I'd be like, you're a waiter too. Like, you're a pm, so you're better than me. We're all still waiting on tables. But. So I had this. And the saloon was a very notoriously rough place to work. The manager was tough. And I actually quit that restaurant because they wouldn't let any waiters get anyone to cover for them for Christmas.
Cynthia Nixon
What?
Michael Patrick King
And they said the manager put a big sign up that said, anyone who doesn't work their Christmas shift has the pleasure of firing themselves.
Cynthia Nixon
Oh, my God.
Michael Patrick King
And I was like, waiting Christmas. So I took the tables used to be covered in butcher paper. So I took a giant ream of butcher paper and put up over the time clock. I have had the pleasure of firing myself. Wow. And walked out. And to this day, people say I was at the saloon when you had the pleasure of fucking firing yourself.
Cynthia Nixon
Oh, my God.
Michael Patrick King
But the story is how it relates to us as we filmed at the saloon. And I was executive producing and sitting next to Frankel at a table where I used to fold napkins.
Cynthia Nixon
Unbelievable.
Michael Patrick King
For. For the AM shift.
Cynthia Nixon
Unbelievable.
Michael Patrick King
I was like, this is fantastic.
Cynthia Nixon
Fantastic beyond belief. When that guy. When she goes. You know, because I love. I. I had totally forgotten Carrie's storyline, right? Which is the joy of the rewatch. You know, you don't remember all of it. And I was like, oh my God, this is so good that she lies. And they. Then she. But she's talking to us honestly. And then she's trying to figure out
Kristen Davis
how to tell him.
Cynthia Nixon
But he obviously has so many quiet judgments going on, right? They should be telling Steve. They should be doing that. Which I feel for him too. He's stuck in the middle of it, all, right.
Kristen Davis
And then when she goes back to
Cynthia Nixon
the saloon, I'm like, oh my gosh,
Michael Patrick King
she's going to the saloon.
Kristen Davis
And then, I mean.
Cynthia Nixon
Cause I was around, you know, in the later 80s, right. So. And I didn't work there, but I was a waitress in town. I mean, it was a very specific time of the culture, you know. And we would all go to the Odeon because it was open laid.
Michael Patrick King
Talk about tower. They were. And we tunnel. They went.
Cynthia Nixon
And he's like, no, I didn't go. But when that guy walks out, because she sits down and the. When that waiter. I was. I mean, you literally are just like, oh my God, excellent casting.
Kristen Davis
Because he looks so sad, but he's
Michael Patrick King
got the hair a little bit deflated.
Cynthia Nixon
Definitely, but the hair's still there.
Michael Patrick King
He's cute. You saw who he was.
Cynthia Nixon
But he's definitely worn down, right? Because he doesn't mean it.
Michael Patrick King
But like literally that is the joy of. Of being able to write Sex and the City when It was on HBO because they were 30 minutes, no commercials. You could get a lot of story in. Everyone could have a story and you could have like these sort of epic morals. The moral of the story is friends. Like when Charlotte shows up with those beautiful white hydrangeas. Charlotte, yay. And she says these flowers or for whatever flowers you're supposed to do in a situation like this, she does not approve. But she shows up and loves.
Kristen Davis
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Cynthia Nixon
Also, the thing that was so great, because I didn't really remember that scene. Of course, I remember the walking on the street scene because I think I was predominantly worried about that scene. As my producers point out, it's the first time that Cynthia and I have had a scene by ourselves. Isn't that adorable?
Michael Patrick King
Yes. That's a very big deal, right? By design.
Cynthia Nixon
Probably well chosen, right?
Kristen Davis
Couldn't be more perfect.
Michael Patrick King
And I remember it was also so unique.
Cynthia Nixon
So unique. Unheard of.
Michael Patrick King
Don't walk.
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
Michael Patrick King
And the line. She knew she was there.
Cynthia Nixon
The voiceover.
Michael Patrick King
Yeah, yeah. But it's a really great.
Cynthia Nixon
It's really good.
Michael Patrick King
And then Miranda says, I saw you and see me. You know, like the honesty of it all.
Cynthia Nixon
This is what I see when I'm watching myself in that scene, the way it begins. See, the other thing I was thinking about because of course, I did watch it last night before bed. So then I did lay in bed and think about it a lot because it still is very stimulating for me. Like, us in general. Part of why I love us, part of why I want to work together until we die is because it's overstimulating. Do you know what I'm saying? It's so much, you know, it's like all the things. It's rich and exciting and we know each other and you guys write, like, with everything. Like everyone is laying it out there, right? I love that. And then that's what we all want, right? But then it's also overstimulating when you're just trying to live your life in sleep. But when I watched it sleep when you're dead. It's true, it's true, it's true. But then. Yeah. Yes, but of course, my childhood at 6:00am yeah, it's true. But no, I mean, it's more about just trying to do the best that you can do with all of it. Right. And some of it is great to be overstimulated because then you're processing and you're thinking about the things and how did this happen? And what do I remember versus what I see when I look at it, Right? And what I remember was being nervous and feeling like Cynthia was very, very there for me. And I do 100% remember the paper situation, because I think Frankel was like, oh, I want you to get the paper. But you have to. You know how you have to hold things higher on film so that everyone can see them in the take, higher than you feel comfortable or whatever. So I had to get it up high. I had to get it out of my bag and get it up high. And unlike Sarah Jessica, I'm not the most prop type lover person in the world.
Michael Patrick King
Disagree.
Cynthia Nixon
You're adorable. But, you know, she always will, like, give me more. You know what I mean?
Michael Patrick King
I'm disagree.
Cynthia Nixon
I mean, okay, I love you. So I'm trying to get it out. I can see myself trying to get it out. And I can see that it's not going perfectly, but it's also so perfect for the scene, right. Is where, like, you are one with the character and she. It's so real. But then what I feel. And I also think I did talk to, I think Jenny, who wrote this episode, that. That episode, this episode, we weren't at the place in our lives where we really knew people going through this yet, you know, And I had said to her, I don't know if I really did justice or whatever. And she said, you did, you did, you did. And I was like, I don't know. And I do feel when I look at it, what I see is that you're deepening Charlotte, like, little by little by little, like third season, all into where. Like, where we break up the first time when she's on the tennis court, you know, and she's like, I think we should separate. I'm just like, what? I don't remember that. Oh, my God. Like, you know, she's struggling to manage the fact that her vision is not what she wanted, you know, which is a big.
Michael Patrick King
And these aren't little obstacles.
Cynthia Nixon
No, they're huge obstacles. But she's gonna try to keep it together. And so she doesn't have her feelings.
Michael Patrick King
That was her job.
Cynthia Nixon
Exactly. And that's what I see in the show. Exactly. And that's what I see in this scene. Right. It's like she's walking along looking kind of depressed but not devastated. And I'm thinking, why did I make that choice? And I'm sure that no one really wanted me to look devastated walking down the street. Right. And also, is it Charlotte to look.
Michael Patrick King
You look like you're in shock.
Cynthia Nixon
Do what? Okay, excellent.
Michael Patrick King
You look like you came from a plane crash but survived.
Cynthia Nixon
Excellent. Okay, that's great, Michael. This is why I need you around. Okay. Thank God.
Michael Patrick King
Why? Because we have the ability to alter the reality?
Cynthia Nixon
No, because I have the ability to alter my mind. With your insight, you look shell shocked,
Michael Patrick King
almost like a emotional zombie.
Cynthia Nixon
Okay, great. Great. That's helpful. Thank you so much. Because I'm wondering to myself, like. Because I do say to Miranda, I knew it. I knew it would, you know, And I said earlier, too, like, I've got to make an appointment to find out, because I just know it's me. Right? So I was like, am I playing that? This is just, you know, giving credence to my fear. What am I playing there? But I'm going to go with playing everything.
Michael Patrick King
Here's the reality.
Cynthia Nixon
Tell me.
Michael Patrick King
It was a very hard scene because you have to break in it. And when you have an expectation that you have to break, I don't know how you do it. That's the hardest part. I've seen so many moments where the actor gets there and they might have had it at rehearsal.
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
Michael Patrick King
And it's dried up.
Cynthia Nixon
Oh, it's the worst. Yeah, that's the worst. And then it goes away totally.
Michael Patrick King
And so you have the expectation of, I'm walking into this, right. And probably you're thinking, I hope this goes well. And Charlotte's thinking, I hope this all goes well.
Cynthia Nixon
Totally. That is when there is fear. Yes, yes. All of it.
Kristen Davis
All of it.
Michael Patrick King
And then you play the surprise of seeing Miranda and the embarrassment of being caught.
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
Michael Patrick King
And then the anger.
Cynthia Nixon
Did you feel anger?
Michael Patrick King
Yes, it's true.
Cynthia Nixon
See, this is what I think is happening, too. Do you remember the seasons which I feel like would have been season two, where you guys, not you personally, the writers in general, like Jenny. I remember specifically telling me, like, Charlotte does not get mad.
Kristen Davis
Do you remember this?
Michael Patrick King
No. I don't think of anybody as not getting mad ever.
Cynthia Nixon
Right. That would be insane. Right. It was kind of like Darren, maybe Jenny, and. And it was more like when we were beginning and kind of really starting from the more archetypal, real archetypes. Yes, yes. And as it went, we deepened, deepened, deepened. Right. And remember how many guys I went through in season two?
Michael Patrick King
Yeah. Fantastic.
Cynthia Nixon
So many fantastic. For sure. Definitely.
Michael Patrick King
You can horn.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes, that would be the one.
Michael Patrick King
I like to always bring that up to trigger you because I know you still. You still haven't done.
Cynthia Nixon
Mad.
Michael Patrick King
You still haven't done your work on that one.
Cynthia Nixon
True. I have not. I'm still mad.
Michael Patrick King
I'm here to remind you. You or you still have to work through that.
Cynthia Nixon
I know. Because Charlotte didn't get to have her feelings about it. That's why I have not worked through it, because everyone told me, you cannot be mad. Charlotte doesn't get mad.
Michael Patrick King
Okay.
Cynthia Nixon
I know. It was crazy.
Kristen Davis
Crazy.
Michael Patrick King
She gets overwhelmed. She gets shut down. She gets derailed. Definitely gets humiliated.
Cynthia Nixon
Definitely.
Michael Patrick King
She carries all of that.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
But the funny thing is that she doesn't know what to do with it.
Cynthia Nixon
I guess that's. That's a good point. And that's that if someone had said that to me that way, it might have helped. Because at the time, I was just like, well, I'm just going to try to shove these feelings down, you know? Which I guess is what she's doing. Right? Right. Right. Right now.
Michael Patrick King
Maybe you should let go of those feelings.
Cynthia Nixon
I mean, I'm not. Believe me. This is not what's going through in my mind. And when I'm laying in bed,
Kristen Davis
maybe.
Michael Patrick King
I don't know, maybe you still feel so protective of that moment.
Cynthia Nixon
I do.
Michael Patrick King
It's like a real ex. It's a weird combination of real.
Cynthia Nixon
Because that guy also made me mad.
Michael Patrick King
Just thinking.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
Should I have spoken up for my. Myself, like the. There's like a. That's the. The.
Cynthia Nixon
No, it's true. And Cynthia told me not to. That's why I didn't. Because right after yourself. I did not.
Kristen Davis
No.
Michael Patrick King
Cynthia's advice.
Cynthia Nixon
Cynthia thought it was hysterical and that I should not say a word.
Michael Patrick King
Yeah.
Cynthia Nixon
And so I didn't. But I wanted to. And then that guy himself made me mad. So it all.
Michael Patrick King
Or did he?
Cynthia Nixon
He did. I'll tell you what he did. This is what he did. He. You're trying to save him. That's so sweet.
Michael Patrick King
I'm just trying to say he did his job.
Cynthia Nixon
Oh, he did his job. But what he did is. He did his job.
Michael Patrick King
Are we still here on this guy?
Cynthia Nixon
We are.
Michael Patrick King
You two better get it together.
Cynthia Nixon
I don't even know his name.
Michael Patrick King
I think if you're gonna hold on to a grudge, we should find out that deer actor.
Cynthia Nixon
We should find out this poor guy's
Michael Patrick King
face since he is now your nemesis.
Cynthia Nixon
There's like three, and he's one of them. He wanted. He. Nicole was directing that. Nicole Hlofsner. She did his side first.
Kristen Davis
Irritating.
Cynthia Nixon
Okay. Then it was lunch. So he had shouted at me. She kept telling him to shout louder and to be closer to my face. So those were the two directions she gave him, which I was like, nicole,
Michael Patrick King
okay, like, let's talk about the evolution of you. I'm now jumping. I'm jumping forward so many years.
Cynthia Nixon
Okay, great.
Michael Patrick King
To the evolution of you feeling that you can't express yourself about a thing to the day on end. Just like that. Where Harry was maybe gonna get hard after the whole thing, and he couldn't get hard. He still wasn't hard. And you had to give him a
Cynthia Nixon
hand job Final season or what?
Michael Patrick King
The final season.
Cynthia Nixon
Okay.
Michael Patrick King
Had to give him a hand job. Not written that way. Oh, it was. They make love. And then we don't know how we know that it didn't happen, because, to be quite frank, he's inside of her. We don't know what's going on.
Cynthia Nixon
Oh, yes. This was a little vague. Yes, yes, yes.
Michael Patrick King
We had a new. Our intimacy coordinator was Unpregnant Adam Matron.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Michael Patrick King
We had a new one who was from England and very concerned about her actors and looking through the lens. Anyway, I came in as the director at 5am and realized, oh, no, that's not gonna be funny. It's just gonna be another scene. It has to be a hand job, and you have to be fully clothed and giving a hand job. And I came up to you first thing in the set. We're about to rehearse.
Cynthia Nixon
Oh, no, I don't remember what I said.
Michael Patrick King
Kristen, I've been thinking. I think you're giving him a hand job instead of making love. And she was like, what? What? Wait, what? And I was like, it's a hand job. And you're like, wait, what does that mean? What are you showing? And I was like, I'm showing from here up your arm and. Okay, all right, good.
Kristen Davis
Did I do it?
Michael Patrick King
Yeah. We had a big dialogue. I said to you, this is how it goes. I think it'll be funnier. You go, it will be okay. And then the woman said, I don't have the paperwork for a hand job. And you said, we're fine. And she goes, no, I need to have the paperwork. Paperwork. So now we were fine, and we don't have the paperwork for anything. We had to do a quick paperwork and you had to sign off. But it's a long way from feeling in a box that you couldn't have your feelings.
Cynthia Nixon
That's true. But you know what that is about? That is about you and our incredible long relationship.
Michael Patrick King
True, true. And also about you.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
Understanding what's better for the scene.
Kristen Davis
For sure.
Cynthia Nixon
For sure. But that's because I trust you.
Michael Patrick King
Yeah, yeah.
Cynthia Nixon
You know, so it's about trust and developing.
Michael Patrick King
Well, I trust you. That's what I can say.
Cynthia Nixon
100%.
Michael Patrick King
How are you okay with this?
Cynthia Nixon
Let's do this.
Michael Patrick King
If it doesn't work, I won't use it. And it was great. It was funny and it was the thing we do better.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Michael Patrick King
Which is comedy, sex.
Cynthia Nixon
100%.
Kristen Davis
Whatever.
Michael Patrick King
Sex.
Cynthia Nixon
Totally.
Michael Patrick King
Simulated penetration.
Cynthia Nixon
Definitely, definitely, definitely. And I do. Totally. I don't ever need to see that again or acted again. You know what I'm saying? Not for you, for anyone. So, like.
Michael Patrick King
Yeah, well, it's important. Maybe in something, maybe you'll do have to do it. But the reality is never say never. She's open. All you writers, directors, she's still open. She's a wonderful person to work with in simulated sex situations.
Cynthia Nixon
You're so sweet. Thinking about my career. That's so sweet. So sweet. Thank you.
Michael Patrick King
But yeah, I just wanted to draw a line from.
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right.
Michael Patrick King
Which is what happens when a series really is allowed to exist and the people are there for each other and love each other and both. And that's what's so great about this episode. It just screams of growth.
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
Kristen Davis
All right, everyone, thanks for joining us on Are youe With Charlotte. We are gonna be back with more Michael Patrick King. Cause when he's here, we could really talk for a long time. So please join us again later this week. Thanks everybody. Working out? Just got reformed with your Reformer. It's a gorgeous piece of furniture too. I just got one of these, you guys. It's so beautiful and it makes it so easy to do my workout. Just 20 minutes. I just hop on, hop off, get ready to go. It's amazing. Every Euroformer purchase includes access to Euroformer app which has over 1,000 instructor led on demand workouts. You get your first three months free on the app. If you're not quite ready to invest, you can actually rent your reformer for $39 a week. That's less than the average cost of a studio class your Reformer delivers to your home within seven days across mainland USA. Visit your reformer.com and use the code are YOUASHARLOTTE200 to receive $200 off your purchase. Your space, your pace, your Reformer not many things in life offer 100% satisfaction guaranteed, but you know what does the Womanizer enhance? It is the first pleasure toy to reach a 100% orgasm rate during its user testing phase. It's also waterproof, so you can use it in the shower or bath. To get the Womanizer enhanced or any other Womanizer toy use code Charlotte that is C H A R L-O-T T E and go to womanizer.com spelled W-O-M-A-N-I Z E R.com for 20% off site wide I have to tell you guys about Hill House Home. The brand behind the viral nap dress. The one with the signature smocking is both flattering and comfortable. What I love about Hill House dresses is how versatile they are. I just got the scarlet MIDI nap dress and I can wear it running errands during the day and at dinner or a party that night. No outfit change required. And it's not just dresses. Hill House started with bedding in 2016 and their robes and pajamas are so soft, made from the same cotton fabric as their baby onesies. They also have the cutest styles for women, babies and kids, including monogrammable robes, onesies and pajamas that make the perfect gift. I love my pink dress that I just got the other day from them. It's so comfortable I can wear it around the house and then I can run errands, I can go to lunch. It's I. It's a dream. Hill House makes fun fashion that makes you feel good, which explains why celebrities like Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo and Anne Hathaway have been spotted wearing it. Honestly, Charlotte York would be all over this. Get 15 off your first order of a hundred dollars or more@hillhousehome.com with the code CHARLOTTE15. Again, that's CHARLOTTE15 for 15 off@hillhousehome.com taking care of yourself means taking care of your eyes too. And that gritty, irritated feeling could be dry eye. Mibo, AKA Perfluorohexalactane Ophthalmic Solution is the only prescription dry eye drop that directly targets the number one cause of dry eye too much tear evaporation. Ask your eye doctor how you can treat dry eye differently with Mibo. Oh yeah, don't use if allergic to Mibo. Remove contacts before using and wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. Eye redness and blurred vision may occur. For info, call 1-800-553-5340 or visit miebo.com this is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.
In this episode, Kristin Davis welcomes back Michael Patrick King, the showrunner, writer, and director whose creative vision defined Sex and the City. Joined by Cynthia Nixon, this candid conversation takes listeners behind the velvet rope of Season 4 — reflecting on its creative process, the show's cultural impact, and the deepening of beloved characters. They explore stories from the writers' room, pivotal on-screen moments, and how real-life experiences blended into the show’s DNA. The episode delivers both nostalgia and insight for fans and anyone curious about how risks in storytelling can shift pop culture.
Season 4’s Significance
Michael Patrick King asserts that Season 4 was the peak of the series in terms of storytelling depth, character development, and boldness.
Actors & Writers: Emotional Collaboration
The trio recalls how Michael would personally discuss story arcs with the actors before scripts were finalized, an uncommon level of collaboration in TV.
The Infamous Abortion Episode (“Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda”)
They unpack how the writers’ room and HBO navigated the delicate subject of abortion with honesty and courage.
Comedy as a Trojan Horse for Real Issues
Charlotte’s Fertility Storyline
Actor Vulnerability and Perception
Mentorship and Growth
Miranda and Charlotte’s First Solo Scene
The hosts highlight the emotional and technical nuances behind Miranda and Charlotte's first scene together alone on Fifth Avenue.
Intimacy and Comedy
Aiden & Carrie’s Emotional Complexity
Infusing Writers’ Lives into the Show
Growth Over Time
The group reflects on how both the show and its actors matured, allowing richer, riskier, and more emotionally resonant stories.
The Power and Importance of Trust
Longstanding creative partnerships allowed for the evolution of both characters and storytelling methods.
On Season 4’s Bravery:
“There’s a line in the show that I remember being radical. Is Samantha saying, ‘I’ve had two. How many have you had?’” — Michael Patrick King [12:42]
On Collaboration:
“I always felt I not only owed it to you, but I wanted a temperature check from you about whether you were going to be excited about where we were going.” — Michael Patrick King [07:09]
On the Show’s Cultural Impact:
“I felt at the time that we were doing something different and that it was going to help shift things in our TV landscape, cultural landscape, what was okay to talk about. And I feel like it did for a while. And then TV … has pulled back from fear.” — Cynthia Nixon [13:14]
On Playing Vulnerability:
“If there’s no vulnerability … it wouldn’t be as brilliant.” — Cynthia Nixon [25:14]
On Aiden’s Dynamic:
“‘I want to get a ring on it. I want to lock this down.’ That was a very male line …” — Michael Patrick King [29:11]
On Personal Growth:
“It’s a long way from feeling in a box that you couldn’t have your feelings.” — Michael Patrick King [49:43]
| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|----------------------------------------------| | 04:45 | Michael Patrick King joins the conversation | | 05:25 | Discussion: Why Season 4 stands out | | 07:08 | Collaborative writing & story pitches | | 12:04 | “Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda” abortion episode | | 15:51 | Original plans for Charlotte & Miranda | | 21:10 | Hyundai Hot Take: Miranda and Charlotte scene| | 22:35 | Mentorship and actor vulnerability | | 27:24 | The Aiden/Carrie relationship dynamic | | 30:54 | “The Saloon” story & writing from life | | 39:04 | On playing Charlotte’s pain and growth | | 49:43 | Evolution from restrained emotions to trust | | 50:56 | Closing reflections on growth |
The conversation is heartfelt, witty, and deeply appreciative of both the artistry and the lived experiences behind Sex and the City. There’s honesty about creative anxieties, pride in boundary-breaking, and plenty of warmth and humor among longtime collaborators. The episode feels like a reunion of trusted friends who are happy to let listeners in on the secret sauce.
Whether you’re a mega-fan or a casual viewer, this episode offers fresh appreciation of Sex and the City’s legacy, the courageous choices in the writers’ room, and how collaboration and trust create storytelling that still resonates decades later.
End of Summary