Sex, The City, and Cher with Cindy Chupack... (S2 E11 "Evolution")

Summary

Are You A Charlotte?

Sex, The City, and Cher with Cindy Chupack

Podcast: Are You A Charlotte?
Host: Kristin Davis (Charlotte York)
Guest: Cindy Chupack (Writer and Producer, Sex and the City)
Date: August 28, 2025
Episode: S2 E11 "Evolution"

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Main Theme & Purpose

In this lively rewatch episode, Kristin Davis is joined by celebrated Sex and the City writer and producer, Cindy Chupack, to break down the Season 2 episode “Evolution”—exploring the ways the series evolved group dynamics, sexual topics, and the unique issues faced by women in New York. Together, they share inside stories about the making of the show and reflect on both the comic and poignant realism of the episode, with a focus on group scenes, sexual politics, and the delicate push-pull of intimate relationships (especially Carrie and Big). The episode is peppered with personal anecdotes, production tidbits, and a healthy dose of nostalgia, all delivered in the witty, emotionally authentic tone familiar to SATC fans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Art and Challenge of Group Scenes

• Evolution of Group Scenes: The hosts reminisce about the early struggle to nail the signature four-woman group scenes—highlighting how they became central to the show's appeal and relatability.
  • “I feel like our group scenes are, like, really coming together now... They'd been kind of together, but this is the first time it's really working.”
    – Kristin Davis (03:25)
• Writing Four Perspectives: Cindy Chupack discusses the joy of writing scenes where “you could all four have different perspectives and nobody was right and nobody was really wrong,” creating space for genuine disagreement and camaraderie (04:42).
• Onscreen Chemistry: Kristin and Cindy emphasize how the “agreement” among the women to discuss anything—despite occasional judgment—set the show apart (05:18).

2. Tackling Taboo Topics with Humor and Honesty

• Fertility and Women’s Health: The group’s open discussion of fertility (tilted uterus, lazy ovary) sparked conversations that were rare for TV at the time (06:11).
  • “I say, I have a tilted uterus. And Miranda tells us about her lazy ovary, which I don't even know if they use that term anymore. It's kind of interesting.”
    – Cynthia Nixon (05:49)
• Directing Group Gynecologist Scenes: Davis and Chupack praise director Pam Thomas for filming the gynecologist scenes with both realism and humor (06:16).
  • “She’s just got a shot above of Cynthia because it’s so awkward. We've all been to... And you're going to see Charlotte at the gynecologist. But Pam just had such a creative way of filming.”
    – Kristin Davis (06:21)

3. Carrie and Big: Relationship Nuances

• The Hair Dryer Incident: The infamous scene where Carrie leaves personal items at Big’s apartment (tampons, tiny hair dryer) prompted big fan debates about what constitutes “pushing the relationship.”
  • “Carrie puts up with a lot—way more than Big puts up with.”
    – Cynthia Nixon (07:11)
  • “When he comes back with her stuff, like, ‘You left this at my house’… it’s just like, Teflon for relationships.”
    – Kristin Davis (09:12)
• Changing Perspectives Over Time: Both Davis and Chupack reflect on how their understanding of the relationship has evolved—then versus now—given cultural shifts and the influence of social media (10:36, 12:01).
  • “Thank God we didn’t have that [social media]... it was just fun not to have that option for us.”
    – Kristin Davis (10:57)

4. The Show’s Freedom & Legacy

• HBO’s Impact on Creative Choices: Not having to answer to advertisers allowed the writers to “push the envelope” (12:01).
  • “It’s pure. And that was the joy of it... at the time, the model was network TV where they were trying to please advertisers.”
    – Cynthia Nixon (12:01)

5. Charlotte’s Date Storyline with Stefan

• Dating Without Expectations: The episode’s subplot explores how Charlotte’s demeanor transforms when she doesn’t realize she’s on a date, leading to more authentic (and sexy) moments (18:28).
  • “It’s fun to see Charlotte... how she's different with a guy she doesn't think she's on a date with.”
    – Kristin Davis (18:44)
• ‘Gay, Straight, and Straight Gay’ Men: The group unpacks Manhattan’s social types—adding a comedic but insightful layer with the introduction of “straight gay” men influenced by fashion, cuisine, etc. (19:06).
• Filming Charlotte’s First ‘Real’ Sex Scene: Kristin Davis recalls nerves, direction, and support in her first intimate (not comedic) sex scene.
  • “I hadn’t really done the sex scenes. Right. And I hadn’t showed any body. But she [Pam Thomas] had a whole plan...[Dan Futterman] made me feel so much better because I was super nervous.”
    – Kristin Davis (20:48)
  • “Most of our sex scenes were for comedy... It wasn’t voyeuristic, really. It was usually a story point.”
    – Kristin Davis (20:19)

6. Iconic Fashion Moments

• The Fendi Baguette: Legendary status came more from practicality and stylist input than from intention.
  • “People talk a lot about the Fendi baguettes and how... it’s literally just because that’s who would send her some bags... Not that she didn’t love them.”
    – Cynthia Nixon (22:23)
  • Davis admits her lack of early fashion knowledge, learning through the show (22:53).

7. Samantha’s Plot & Cher

• Samantha and Dominick: A mirror of past heartbreak, Samantha’s plan to flip the rejection script doesn’t go as intended, showing vulnerability beneath her confident exterior (25:39).
• Cher Cameo Story: The inside scoop on securing Cher’s “Do You Believe” for a pivotal scene—requiring an actual meeting with Cher at Madison Square Garden.
  • “We all went, right? Yeah. And she came and, like, talked to us before the show.”
    – Kristin Davis (36:15)
  • “When it [song] ever comes on the radio, I’m so happy. It makes me so happy because it reminds me of Butterman, reminds me of Cher, reminds me of us.”
    – Cynthia Nixon (37:12)

8. Miranda’s Dating Woes & Relatable Insecurities

• Debating Egg Freezing: Miranda’s frank conversation about fertility with a date who doesn’t react well—illustrates the vulnerability and comic-tragic moments unique to the show (33:10).
• Hair Plug Moment: A humorous but authentic running gag about dating standards, judgment, and evolving self-awareness (34:03).

9. Reflections on Character Archetypes

• Are You a Charlotte? The show’s conceit gets a meta twist.
  • “I think maybe right now, for the first time in my life, I’m not [a Charlotte]. Which isn’t good... I think Charlotte is a good place to get to.”
    – Kristin Davis (41:05)
  • “It’s hard to remain Charlotte for your whole life... That’s an unrealistic expectation, even for myself and I play her.”
    – Kristin Davis (41:32)
• Blending Archetypes: Both Davis and Chupack acknowledge how people move between “Charlotte, Miranda, Carrie, Samantha” phases—and that having a ‘core Charlotte’ is a source of optimism and hope (42:05).

10. Notable Production Trivia & Favorite Moments

• Shared Sets: Behind-the-scenes details, like reusing the apartment set for multiple characters’ storylines (27:06).
• Classic Quotes:
  • “And just like that”—used in nearly every episode, predating its later status as a franchise catchphrase (40:42).
• Recounting a Beloved Scene: Kristin’s wedding-veil line about Trey—a favorite moment for both guest and host (43:19).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:42 | Cindy Chupack | “You could just dissect an issue and you could all four have different perspectives, and nobody was right and nobody was really wrong. So it was like commiserating. And that's my favorite thing to write and do.” | | 07:11 | Cynthia Nixon | “Carrie puts up with a lot—way more than Big puts up with.” | | 09:12 | Kristin Davis | “When he comes back with her stuff, like, ‘You left this at my house’… it’s just like, Teflon for relationships.” | | 20:19 | Kristin Davis | “Most of our sex scenes were for comedy... it wasn’t voyeuristic, really. It was usually a story point." | | 22:23 | Cynthia Nixon | “People talk a lot about the Fendi baguettes... it’s literally just because that’s who would send her some bags.” | | 36:15 | Kristin Davis | “We all went, right? Yeah. And she came and, like, talked to us before the show.” | | 37:12 | Cynthia Nixon | “When it ever comes on the radio, I’m so happy... it reminds me of Butterman, reminds me of Cher, reminds me of us.” | | 41:32 | Kristin Davis | “It’s hard to remain Charlotte for your whole life... That’s an unrealistic expectation, even for myself and I play her.” |

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Important Timestamps for Segment Highlights

• 03:25–05:18: Writing and filming group scenes; unique dynamic of the main four friends.
• 06:11–06:48: Open conversations about fertility; filming the gynecologist scene.
• 07:11–10:36: Carrie and Big’s relationship nuances, debates about “pushing” in relationships.
• 12:01–12:37: HBO’s impact—creative freedom and how it shaped the show.
• 18:28–21:01: Charlotte’s unwitting date with Stefan; first “real” sex scene and directing insight.
• 22:23–22:59: The Fendi baguette—practicality behind the iconic item.
• 25:39–27:24: Samantha’s plot to best Dominick; reusing the apartment set.
• 33:10–34:15: Miranda’s disastrous date discussing fertility and dating insecurities.
• 36:15–37:12: Securing Cher’s “Do You Believe”—behind-the-scenes concert memory.
• 41:05–42:41: The “Are You a Charlotte?” reflection; blending all four archetypes; optimism as character core.
• 43:19–44:34: Favorite scene—Charlotte’s hopeful wedding-veil line about Trey.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a treasure trove of both Sex and the City nostalgia and sharp insights into why its characters and conflicts remain relevant and beloved. Davis and Chupack’s dialogue is candid, empathetic, and consistently funny, providing a real sense of backstage access for fans while also reflecting on how the show’s groundbreaking conversations on relationships, sexuality, and personal identity remain just as resonant in today’s world. Their conversation is both celebration and critique—a loving look back with eyes wide open to how culture, relationships, and television itself have evolved.

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For fans, this episode is a masterclass in Sex and the City’s heart and humor, with plenty of “omg-I-remember-that” moments and behind-the-scenes gold.

Transcript

[Kristin Davis]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Cynthia Nixon]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

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[Kristin Davis]

Oh, yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Like, you know, the group scenes were so challenging to write.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And they had to really, like, we would work on those things all day long, and we had to run those lines and run those lines and.

[Kristin Davis]

And then all the angles. You had to, like, film the scene over and over.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes. And the timing of any waiters.

[Kristin Davis]

But those are my favorite scenes. Are they really? I mean, I love the scenes of you guys all together and just, you know, breaking down.

[Cynthia Nixon]

There's.

[Kristin Davis]

Well, I love a lot about the series, but those were, like, so fun for me. They seemed really fun to write and to watch because in a way, when I wrote those essays about dating, like, for Glamour, they would want you to end on some kind of revelation about some advice. And what was fun about writing the four of you is you could just dissect an issue and you could all four have different perspectives, and nobody was right and nobody was really wrong. So it was, like, commiserating. And that's my favorite thing to write and do. So those scenes were just fine to like and to sometimes have it be surprising what, like, you would think Charlotte would think about this and what she.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Did think about this most definitely. Everyone surprises almost all the time, which I think is great. And that's the joy, you know, that's the joy. And that's also. You're right. It is unique. Unique to the show that there'd be four characters with distinct viewpoints that are friends and that can freely. That. It's like they have an agreement. Yes. We're just gonna freely discuss it all and not say that there isn't judgment. There is occasionally judgment. Or like, no, don't do that. You know, but then people just go ahead and do it. Do you know what I mean? And we're still there for each other. It's not like we're gon. And be like, well, I didn't agree with that.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

You know what I mean?

[Kristin Davis]

Never. I told you so. Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right. No, thank God. Thank God, thank God. But, yeah, it's interesting to think back on it, you know, the things that made it unique. It's interesting. And in this particular scene, we talk about fertility, which is fine. And I say, I have a tilted uterus. And Miranda tells us about her lazy ovary, which I don't even know if they use that term anymore. It's kind of interesting. Do you think?

[Kristin Davis]

I think they might, but I don't know for sure.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I don't know either, but it seems not very scientific.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. That's what it started on the gynecologist table this episode with Maria, which was.

[Cynthia Nixon]

So great because Pam Thomas, again, the director, is so visual. And she's just got a shot above of Cynthia because it's so awkward. We've all been to. And you're going to see Charlotte at the gynecologist. But Pam just had such a creative way of filming.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. And like how Cynthia is just looking up and talking to the person who's like, inside her face.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Exactly.

[Kristin Davis]

And then taking the. And having to describe she's not on birth control because her relationship ended. Like how you get too much. Anyway, there's a lot I love about it.

[Cynthia Nixon]

How so relatable. So relatable and so great. So then we talk about. So this is when Carrie wants to leave things at bigs. People talk to me about this, which I find really interesting.

[Kristin Davis]

I saw it. Was it Who?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Christy Brinkley.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, Christie Brinkley. Thought that was Carrie pushing the relationship. I saw that clip on TikTok and it was interesting to me because can.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I tell you that I kind of wanted to push back a little. But I love Christy and I respect Christy and I didn't want to because she was talking about her daughters and watching with her daughters. I just Felt like it was a little delicate to push back. But I kind of wanted to say, like, you know, Carrie puts up with a lot. Like, way more than Big puts up with.

[Kristin Davis]

And she tries to leave some tampons in the hair dryer.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Like, is that so bad? Yeah, I don't think so. So, you know, but I didn't want. I didn't want to because I felt like I'm always so appreciative when people come on and talk about their.

[Kristin Davis]

No. And I love hearing the different perspectives. I mean, I thought that was interesting to think of it that way when I just felt like she was so gingerly trying to, like, leave with something. I know, but, yeah, it's interesting to think about it. Like, she was pushing. Maybe Christy knew more than we did.

[Cynthia Nixon]

That Big was not ready. Everybody knows their own experience, I guess. But, like, for me, I'm like, Carrie's, like, bending her whole self around who that man wants her to be or trying, you know, with middling success. And she holds so much in. But I feel like when she does finally speak, sometimes it does come out, you know, with a lot of drama or whatever, because she's been shoving it down, shoving it down, shoving it down, and not really free like he is. So, you know, obviously doesn't want her to be doing the things she wants to do. Like, at one point, doesn't she say something to him? Like, you know, like, people in a relationship do, you know, what do you think people should be doing? Like, don't you think this is normal? And he goes, no, I think we're doing exactly what people. You know, I'm totally happy with what we're doing right now because he is happy.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. And it's not a bad situation, actually. Two apartments.

[Cynthia Nixon]

We can be together when we want.

[Kristin Davis]

To be together, but she feels like.

[Cynthia Nixon]

She needs to look good in the morning. And for him also, you know what I'm trying to say? Like, you know, she's trying to look amazing for him. And so she wants her little baby tiny hair dryer that. I literally never seen a tinier hair dryer in my life. Chose to leave it at his house. Like, I just think he's so mean.

[Kristin Davis]

Sometimes, you know, Obviously, I guess I could see. Oh, I like that, because I felt like I could see both sides, definitely. But I mean, it did. When he comes back with her stuff, like, you left this stuff at my house.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's just like.

[Kristin Davis]

Teflon for relationships. They were really fun to watch in that, though, I think.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, they are, because it does Have. We're at the point now, luckily, because the first season I was like, big is awful, Big is horrible. What the heck. Because I never looked at it ever objectively. You know, I first of all was in it. I would just read the script with excitement every time. Of course I loved Big because I was Charlotte and Charlotte loved Big. Like it wouldn't occur to me to peel away that level and think about, well, how does Kristen feel about Big? I was never asked that question. Who cares, right? It doesn't matter. But also, I also feel in the 90s where we were in New York, especially if you were dating a guy like that, you expected him to be withholding. Yeah, that was normal.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, I think I didn't have the self esteem to be very objective about any of this. I was like, of course she tried. She's not gonna push it like you, right? All that stuff. But I think as a writer I have to love all the characters anyway. I have to see what's lovable and see what's right about their perspective. And so I kind of felt that way, I guess all along I wasn't being objective about. It was hard to be objective about, well, is he treating her badly or is she overstepping or anything? I just kind of get it all, you know.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Exactly. And you're just trying to be real and relatable and tell the truth of the stories as you are experiencing them. That's a really good point. It's not our job to be objective. I mean, it's interesting now because now all these many years later, obviously we're looking back at what we created. But also now there's social media where everyone's putting their two cents.

[Kristin Davis]

Thank God we didn't have that.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Thank God.

[Kristin Davis]

I am going to say, thank God we did not have that. I mean, I often think I'm glad that communication was what it was then because I still find writing into scripts, texting and everything that's going on now just not as fun as just people talking about it. And yes, in real life they wouldn't necessarily go over there or call each other, but it was just fun not to have that option for us.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I agree.

[Kristin Davis]

And then same about the instant feedback. I think even when I worked on Modern Family like we, they would like watch the tweets and while the show was airing and see if people were laughing at lines. And it was, it's just, it was nice to be trying to. I mean, I remember Michael saying, like we're doing maybe. Jenny told me, I think Michael, that We're making this show like the network doesn't have a lot of input other than like make it deeper, make it more complicated. Same with you guys. Like those questions. Like I think maybe my character did that, but he was like, we're making this show that we would enjoy watching and that was really what we were doing and hoping that that was something other people would enjoy watching too. But it was kind of like not based on what we thought everybody wanted to hear.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's a pure. It's pure. And that was the joy of it because we at the time, the model was network tv where they were trying to please advertisers. Right. And everything was advertiser based, which was why they couldn't kind of push the envelope in different ways, which was then the birth of HBO as we then came to know it. Obviously that they could do whatever they wanted. They were subscription based. Now we're in this whole other world of streaming. Everything being available all the time at once and then everyone looking at literally what everyone says.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And clickbait being important.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Which is, yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean all. It's all very different.

[Cynthia Nixon]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

That's oregonhomecarejobs.com AG's new fall 2025 collection, from Canvas to Cloth, is inspired by artists and their studios. As someone who plays a character deeply rooted in the art world, it truly feels like something Charlotte would love. The collection blends creativity with wearability, from soft knits and suedes to new denim silhouettes like the Boyfriend Fit for women. It's relaxed, effortless and so chic. And it's not just for women. AG has great pieces for men too, perfect for dressing the whole family. The Fall 2025 collection is available now at agjeans.com and use code KRISTIN15 for 15% off your next order. I'm going to be using my own discount. You guys, I'm so excited. This fall, let your home smell as good as it looks. Pura's app Control Diffusers bring you premium scents from brands like Nest New York, Capri Blue, and Anthropologie. From spiced pumpkin to white woods, your fall favorites are just a tap away. It's home fragrance that feels as elevated as it smells. And right now, it's the perfect time to stop. Visit pura.com and bring home the best scents of the season. Okay, let's talk about Just Butterman. Right? So here we are. Charlotte is on a date, but she doesn't know she's on a date. She's wearing her glasses, which is funny. They go to see a Broadway show, and they discuss Betty Buckley, how talented she is, which really made me laugh, and I loved it. And she's with a very handsome guy. He's played by Dan Futterman. His name is Stefan. Or Stefan. Yes, Stefan. Am I saying it right? Good. And then we. We. We are walking and talking, and, you know, Charlotte seems oddly relaxed. She's not on her normal date vibe.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

But yet it's a beautiful night. You know, it looks great. He looks great. Whatever. She's talking about the show. And then they get to the cab, and then he grabs her and kisses her, and she gets in the cab, and she's just staring at him like, what the heck? I touched my glasses. Right. Which is really funny. That's the beginning.

[Kristin Davis]

It's fun to see you, though. Like, see Charlotte. Yeah. How we wouldn't have really thought about how she's different with a guy she doesn't think she's on a date with. Because we've mostly only seen you on dates or 100 gay friends.

[Cynthia Nixon]

So we're either with the girlfriends or. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

But you were kind of like. Yeah, like you'd be with girlfriends.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah. So nice.

[Kristin Davis]

And then it was a nice little lesson. I mean, reminder that, like, maybe we should just be that way.

[Cynthia Nixon]

100. 100. So then we go to. To lunch. No, sorry. We're at a bar. At a bar with the ladies, and I'm telling them that I'm confused about this guy. Is he gay? Is he straight? And they. We have a conversation where we talk about gay, straight and straight gay men. Yeah. It's a new term of heterosexual males spawned in Manhattan as the result of overexposure to fashion, exotic cuisine, and musical Theater and antique furniture.

[Kristin Davis]

Every stereotype. Anyway, can we talk about Miranda's?

[Cynthia Nixon]

So listen, Miranda.

[Kristin Davis]

Well, first of all, I love. Yes. I love Charlotte in this whole thing. And, like, that was a sexy love scene that you and Dan Fetterman did.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Thank you.

[Kristin Davis]

Like, it was like a really beautiful.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Thomas really, really planned it out. And I think that's my first sex scene ever. That's, like, a beautiful sex scene.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I think there were little hits. Like, there's that one time in the first season where I'm trying to get this dude a hand job, and they wanted me to do it over the sheets. And I had to hide in my trailer and my dressing room and, like, wait, like, call Dave in la, my manager, and say, like, help me. They want me to do something over the sheets that's, like, so ick and cringe to use the word. And then I put it under the sheets. But, like, that was like a joke. You know what I'm saying?

[Kristin Davis]

That's the thing. Most of our sex scenes were for comedy and weren't. I heard you talking to some guest about the male gaze. It wasn't because it wasn't voyeuristic, really. It was usually a story point of some sort, and we didn't really linger on it. And that story point, though, in this one was that, like, she wasn't sure about him. And then it's this great sex. Really intimate, beautiful.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

Sex. So that was important there and super.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Important and so beautifully done. And she had come to me early because I hadn't really done the sex scenes. Right.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And I hadn't showed any body. And I. I don't feel like there was a ton of body. But she had a whole plan about the camera being over us on a track. And I remember it all. And of course, Betterman made me feel so much better because I was super nervous.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Just about my body and whatever and everyone. It made it. It was so easy because he's such a good actor. And Pam had such a specific plan and was so calm about it. So even without intimacy coordinators, which we do discuss all the time, that we didn't have them, she was so comfortable, as much as they can be.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. She's a good director and she's a great director. Like, just making you. Yeah. Know what you were up to.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And also, I think because she'd come from commercials, I think was the thing I remember. So she was so visual, but yet she shared that with us.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. And she brought in, like, sample, like, other screen grabs of other things. That were she was using as reference. Like, there's one time where she goes from, like, your bed, I think, to Samantha's bed over the sheets, which was super smart. If you watch that, there's some beautiful directing in that one.

[Cynthia Nixon]

There's some beautiful directing. And also that's what we needed to get everything started to be tied in. And as it goes that you can see that developing episode by episode. Right. And she did a beautiful job. I at the time was like, wait, are those my legs? No, those are Kim's legs. They're very beautiful. You know what I mean? But, like, so. So beautifully, beautifully done. So wait, wait, let's go back to the thing at the bar. This is when Carrie holds up the tiny Fendi bag. People talk a lot about the Fendi baguettes and how, you know, what a great partnership that turned out to be. And Sarah Jessica said, you know, it's literally just because that's who would send her some bags. Well, not that she didn't love them.

[Kristin Davis]

I'm a story about that. Because I grew up in Oklahoma, had no fashion sense, still probably don't have the greatest. But I learned so much on the show. But when I wrote that episode, which was only the second episode I ever wrote, I think I wrote in, it was like, her little coat bag or something. And I remember Patfield was like, don't just leave it to us.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Try.

[Kristin Davis]

And I was like, I don't know. It was a purse. I knew they made a small one. I mean, I just had no, like, vision of, like, the hierarchy.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Can I tell you that that continued until the end of it? Just like that.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

The girls would write something in and Molly would be like, no, no.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's so cute and funny, though. But, I mean, how could you know?

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. No, but that was the perfect little bag. Because the point was, like, she didn't have to carry a big bag. It was because. Lean, fantastic.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And it was also so cute. And it's so sweet that, like, she's trying to, you know, it's so cute that she wants to leave the things. Okay, so then we're. We're there, wait at Carrie's apartment. Big comes over for drinks with the girls. Wait. And returns. Oh, yeah, that's horrible. When he brings that bag back. I've skipped ahead somehow.

[Kristin Davis]

But they talk about it.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, they talk about it. And then she said she meant to leave it. And then. And then she asked. Oh, this is the thing that I was saying earlier. She asked about the ideal living situation for their relationship. And he responds exactly what we have. And then he has his. He has his place, she has her place. They see each other when they want, and then they get to be alone when they want. And I just love Sarah Jessica's acting so much because whenever he does do these things, you could just see so many things going through her mind and her, her, her heart. You know what I mean? And she doesn't say them.

[Kristin Davis]

Trying to say like just socks. And he's so right. But also that voiceover. I still, I stand by that voiceover afterward when she says, ever since men heard about Woody Allen waving across the park to Mia Farrow, he goes, so we're like Woody and Mia. I remember before Soon Yi.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I remember this like it was yesterday. Do you remember that whole article where you were just like, what? It must have been Vanity Fair. She's like, wait, but they do what? And she can only wear beige. Like, what? And I think we talked about it every day at work.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. Like, but also, I still think that fantasy of like living sort of separately but, you know, having your own space but being able to be together, it's great.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's just not a great example because it really didn't go well.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah, it didn't go well.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It really didn't go well.

[Kristin Davis]

That's not her.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right. So it's very fascinating.

[Kristin Davis]

Maybe you do want to be in the same.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right. But I think it's, it's a lot like the sleep marriage situation. It's a little bit like that. That's the current today version where you're married but you're not sleeping in the bed together. And some people think that's amazing. And some people think that's someone who.

[Kristin Davis]

Told me, like, she realized when she had a king size bed with her first husband that she should never have that big a bed and she should have a queen size bed. They should be that close. And I was like, wow.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Well, listen, Charlotte and Harry have a tiny bed. And people commented on it on the, on the, on the stuff.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And it is something where every day Evan and I would be like, why.

[Kristin Davis]

Is our bed so such a good relationship?

[Cynthia Nixon]

I guess so.

[Kristin Davis]

And neither of us.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Vintage bed that they love is the gist. Because we did actually have to ask, like, why? Because sometimes it would be awkward to film in it because it was so small.

[Kristin Davis]

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

But maybe it's because they have such a good marriage that they, that they can. And maybe that's why they have such a good marriage. I don't know, but it is interesting to me because I would definitely be, like, bigger bed, possibly sleeping in a different room. But I'm not married, so I don't have to worry about that. Okay, so we're back. Oh, let's go back to the Samantha. So Samantha's whole plan is that she's going to lure this, her version of Mr. Big, who's named Dominic back. She wears a stunning dress to go out with him. She tells Carrie she's not gonna have sex with him. Right. She's gonna make him want to have sex with her, and then she's gonna be like, bye. I'm gonna do to you what you did to me. But it doesn't go that way because she just enjoys him too much. And he keeps telling her how beautiful she is and how incredible she is and that she's more beautiful than he remembered. And, you know, so many things. He's very smooth. Meanwhile, I go back on another date with Stefan, and he is now using a Martha Stewart recipe. So we bond over that, which is so cute, but also confusing. So shotless between, like, this is amazing. Oh, I'm a little confused. This is amazing. Oh, I'm a little confused. Which, of course, is.

[Kristin Davis]

And then, like, he gives you this amazing kiss, but then he, like, stands back and looks at you, and there's like, is dress. Cynthia Rally.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Exactly. And I still have that dress hanging in my closet. It's a great dress. I don't know if I can still wear it, but it's a great dress. I should probably give it to my daughter, but yet it's hanging in my closet. I just thought today. And I was like, oh, my God.

[Kristin Davis]

So that kitchen where you guys. Do you remember that was the same. Now I can't remember who. Samantha Richard. When she was dating Richard.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's the same apartment.

[Kristin Davis]

Remember that? So for mega fans, if you like, when they had that amazing apartment of Richard's that had the stairs that came down the kitchen, there was this kitchen that we used for Dan Fetterman's. That apartment was amazing.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, that is amazing, because that apartment was amazing.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah, I can remember that.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Thank you, Cindy, for connecting those dots. I love it. Big savings, bold vehicles, and the perfect time to make your move. That's what the Hyundai getaway sales event is all about. And it's happening right now. Whether you're looking to upgrade your daily commute, prep for a summer of road trips, or finally make the switch to electric, Hyundai has a lineup that covers every lifestyle, every budget, and every kind of driver. Hyundai is rolling out incredible deals on some of the most award winning vehicles like the versatile Kona, the sleek Tucson, the road trip ready Santa Fe and the fully loaded family favorite Palisade. Prefer a tech savvy sedan. The Elantra is packed with features and the Sonata is Hyundai's most advanced yet. It's a serious standout and for those ready to go electric, Hyundai is leading the charge. The all electric Ioniq 5 and Ioniq 6 deliver bold design, ultra fast charging and seriously impressive range, all while qualifying for potential EV incentives depending on your state. But here's the part that really sets Hyundai apart. It's not just about what you drive off the lot, it's what comes with it. Every new Hyundai is backed by America's best warranty, a 10 year 100,000 mile powertrain limited warranty that's industry leading coverage that brings real peace of mind. And with three years or 36,000 miles of limited complimentary maintenance on every new 2025 model, Hyundai keeps delivering long after you've driven off the lot. You're not just buying a car, you're getting value, confidence and a company that truly has your back. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Offers end 9-2-2025 Famous Footwear has the latest styles and all the iconic brands your kids love for back to school from Nike, Adidas, Jordan brand Crocs, Converse, New Balance, Birkenstock and more. All at a great value. There's something for everyone in the family and I know for myself I cannot even keep up with the shoes that my kids want. So the fact that there are so many choices at Famous Footwear and that I can get them the next size up as soon as they outgrow the ones they have and not have to break the bank to get them the shoes that they want is incredible. Plus they make it so incredibly easy because you can just order online because I know I don't have time to go to the shoe store. These kids grow so fast you have to just buy shoes all the time. I feel so. I love Famous Footwear because they make it so easy. It saves me so much time. They have over 830 stores, they're just around the corner from wherever you are. Plus buy online, pick up in store and same day delivery options powered by doordash make shopping at famous so easy and convenient. Kids feet grow fast. Famous Footwear has fit experts in store to make sure you get the right size every time. I like that you don't have to overspend to make it famous right now. Buy one pair of shoes. Get one half off at your local famous footwear store or famous. Com. See storeassociate for detail. You can make a difference in someone's.

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[Cynthia Nixon]

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[Kristin Davis]

I'm so excited.

[Cynthia Nixon]

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[Kristin Davis]

Oh, it's so good.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's so.

[Kristin Davis]

She's so funny. And I remember noticing how Cynthia would kind of serve up so that he could just knock her down. Like the way if you watch that scene, the way she says, like, she's excited to have this conversation about freezing your eggs. Oh, good. Someone I can, like, debate with. And then he just, like, it's a bad reaction, man. And. But she. She. Yeah, it was Interesting, all of you. I mean that.

[Cynthia Nixon]

But, like, these things are incredible. Those things are so good to just.

[Kristin Davis]

Sort of make the other actor better even, you know?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Absolutely. And also just to understand the, like, she plays it all so close to the vest, yet it's also present, you know what I mean? And I think that, you know, so many times when I'm watching her and the guy that she's acting with is Harry O'Reilly, who I feel like I know from something else. But I forgot to ask you, Hannah. What? Harry O'Reilly.

[Kristin Davis]

But he's supposed to have a Harry Potter. He starts just like, staring at his head and he's. So Miranda might be like, judgmental about this guy with hair plugs who she had eliminated before her lazy ovary. And now she had to consider.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I know.

[Kristin Davis]

It's kind of like I just always was wrestling with that maybe still, like, just like, what you're too good for and what. Like maybe you're not even good enough or, you know, like, where are we?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Nowhere with, are we?

[Kristin Davis]

I still don't know.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I don't know either. I do know that people. People. There was this post that has done really well on my social media that I reposted Evan, which was kind of interesting. Evan was doing some press for the show, and someone said to him something about. He said, you know, women come up to me all the time and say, I'm still looking for my Harry. And he says to them, because he's Evan and he doesn't care about anything. He says to them, how many Harrys have you pushed away?

[Kristin Davis]

Ooh, good for Evan and fat and bad for us. I know. I was like, it's probably true.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I was like, oh, my God, it is probably true, right?

[Kristin Davis]

I think. And Evan's so great looking anyway, but remember when you met him, there's like the really handsome lawyer and then there's Evan. They were both handsome in their own way. But I remember Evan saying, because his stand in. Who is the person they light. And it's. His stand in was not good looking, was just bald. Sorry if you're listening, but Evan was like, it's kind of like when you get set up on a. A blind date and you go, is that how you see me? Like, Evan was like, oh, no, Is that. I don't remember this. Oh, my God. I remember him saying something about it, like, okay, I get it. But he's the hero, everybody.

[Cynthia Nixon]

He put up with so much, though. But he is the last man standing, which I'm really happy about. He deserves It. But he did put up with so much. Remember when we made that. Put the hair on his back.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Cynthia Nixon]

He didn't have any hair. Or. Evan had to go through that. Oh, my God.

[Kristin Davis]

Back.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Back to the olden days. We're back. Evan hasn't come yet. Harry has not arrived. So then we go. This is the. Really. This is when we were in bed and he puts on Cher. Do you remember that? We had to go to a Cher concert to get permission.

[Kristin Davis]

We all went, right? Yeah. And she came and, like, talked to us before the show.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And I touched her, and she was.

[Kristin Davis]

So fragile and, like, she had, like, a Viking whole thing going on. A head, which on stage looks impressive. In person, it's kind of like, wow. I know. In person, you're like, I can't believe.

[Cynthia Nixon]

You have to wear this.

[Kristin Davis]

And she was open for her or something. Oh, my God. Yes. Whoever it was, we were having, like, dinner and Cher was talking to us while Cindy was on, I think. Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And I do remember. Incredible at Madison Square Garden. Yeah, it was incredible. It was when she had this song that we get to use in the show. Wait, do you believe in, like.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay, it is.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, it's an old song now.

[Kristin Davis]

Like, we would have been happy to go to the concert anyway. But, yeah, there was some connection where we.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I think we had to get her seal of approval, which is totally fine because we got to meet Cher, which is incredible because I grew up watching the Sonny and Cher show. I don't care if I'm dating.

[Kristin Davis]

It was one of those experiences where you're like, okay, we. I can't believe this is my life.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Insane. Absolutely. And I love that song so much. And when it ever comes on the radio, I'm so happy. It makes me so happy because it reminds me of Butterman, reminds me of Cher, reminds me of us. It's a great thing. So we're there. I try to ask you poor character Stefan if he's been with a man. He asked me if I've been with a woman, which is a fair question. Charlotte doesn't answer. Which makes me wonder, had Charlotte been with a woman and we don't know? I think the answer is no, because I don't do that. Threesome.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. I think Charlotte, to me, it was like. She's just like, you're right. That. Well, no, just. You're right. It's a ridiculous question. Like, of course he wouldn't ask me that. And why am I asking him that? And. Okay. But except for today, maybe he would. Right?

[Cynthia Nixon]

And also, it's like a weird. It's a weird. Yeah, it's a weird thing about. Jeff's exactly, like, making out his brain strength. But surely, you know, she's concerned. I don't know. She's concerned.

[Kristin Davis]

It's brave that she asks him when she's been ruining.

[Cynthia Nixon]

At least it's honest, right, to ask him, honestly. But then she dodges when he asks her, which is kind of funny. And then he does say the very funny thing about how he lives in Chelsea. He's a pastry chef. He. He'd be gay if he was gay, which, you know. Yes. More power to you. And then. And then I'm relieved. And then we have beautiful sex, which is great. And everything goes great. We're just gonna down sit, skip to the mouse. Everything goes great. The next morning, he wants to make her some tea. And then a Red starts squealing.

[Kristin Davis]

And I'm like, what's that noise?

[Cynthia Nixon]

And he's like, what noise?

[Kristin Davis]

I'm like.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It was like a squealing. He's like, oh, yes.

[Kristin Davis]

Over there in the glue trap. It's in the glue trap.

[Cynthia Nixon]

This whole thing. There's literally supposed to be a little mouse stuck in the glue trap in his kitchen.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

How New York. Terrifying.

[Kristin Davis]

I don't think it was stuck in the. I can't remember how we did that, but I think it was a real. No. Okay.

[Cynthia Nixon]

We cannot have put a real mouse in the house. I would not have been okay with that.

[Kristin Davis]

It looks real.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's horrifying. I won't even let people put glue traps at my house. Even when I had mice in my old house. I was like, no, that's mean and horrible.

[Kristin Davis]

Tried it once, and then it was like the Telltale Heart, because this mouse was not dead, but had one leg, and it was, like, dragging around a glue trap. And I was hearing the glue trap.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I had to go out was awful.

[Kristin Davis]

So awful. It was cruel, and I'm sorry I never did it again. I know. I know.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's a terrible, terrible thing. But then I think that mouse is.

[Kristin Davis]

Killed alive just walking around with a Bluetooth.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I hope he made it.

[Kristin Davis]

I hope he made it because I didn't kill him.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I'm glad you didn't kill him. So Danny Futterman's character, Stefan, jumps up on a chair and squeals. And then there's the funny voiceover that it basically says, oh, he didn't write it in here. But it basically says, you know, that Charlotte Is not. Doesn't her develop. Her masculine side is not developed enough for her to be with someone whose feminine side is so developed. And that's great.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

You know what I'm saying? Because that. That's a real thing.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And you kind of have to find the right fit, you know?

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

At least Charlotte knows this about herself.

[Kristin Davis]

You know, it was fun. I mean, it was fun to be on set for all of this.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's always fun to be on set. Okay, wait, here's a trivia. When Charlotte is hailing a cab with Stefan and says, you. You got to show a little leg. This isn't the first. Oh, this is a through line. Carrie does this in Morocco. Do you remember? But the funniest thing is I so don't show any leg.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Because you know how I feel about my legs. I don't know if you know, but. Yeah. I'm not fond of my legs. So I'm sure I was like, I don't want to show my legs. Or like, I do some, like, pose. Like, I'm like, this is the pose you make. And then it works, which is hysterical. Because who wouldn't stop for Danny Futterman? Do you know what I mean? But it is true that this is a through line. I have to. To say my other thing that I'm so amazed by. Every time I watch the old episodes, we say. And just like that, every single episode.

[Kristin Davis]

Do we.

[Cynthia Nixon]

In this episode, we said it.

[Kristin Davis]

It's crazy. It's kind of like I couldn't help but wonder. There were certain lines I didn't quite realize we were using all.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I didn't either.

[Kristin Davis]

I didn't either.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, I did know the. I didn't help but wonder. But more so because once ever social media started, they would always. It was such a great jumping off point, but I didn't realize the. And just like that.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, we use it all the time. It's nutty. It's nutty.

[Kristin Davis]

Cindy. Yes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Are you a Charlotte?

[Kristin Davis]

Okay. I think maybe right now, for the first time in my life, I'm not. Wow. Which isn't good. I think I always had this, like, romantic optimism, and I'm just feeling like, ah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, God.

[Kristin Davis]

I'm a little bit more Miranda right now than usual, but I usually feel like I've got a little of all of them. Okay, then I think Charlotte optimism and hope and. Okay, I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be Charlotte again. But anyway, I think Charlotte is a good place to get to.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Agree with you. It's hard to remain Charlotte for your whole life.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I think in some ways that's an unrealistic expectation, even for myself. And I play her, you know what I'm saying?

[Kristin Davis]

But I think they're all aspects, like I always thought. I start out like Charlotte, then I get into the relationship, I kind of get in my own way a little bit. Miranda, like, then I'm kind of Carrie overanalyzing it. Like, I think Carrie is the whole everything. And then you're kind of Samantha, like, totally. But then somehow I go back to Charlotte again and it's like, I mean.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I think Charlotte is your core. You know what I mean? And I think that when I know for myself, when I get down, it's because Charlotte is my core.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right. Because, like, if you look at Miranda, I mean, and Miranda does, like, she's kind of a little down in this episode, right?

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

But she also, sometimes she just, like, gets strength from her pragmatism. You know what I'm saying? She's just like, I see it like it is, and I call it like it is, and na, na, na, na, na na. But then, like, when Steve breaks up with her, which was the one right before, you know, she's so gutted.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Like, it's just so sweet. But all the characters are so beautifully drawn and.

[Kristin Davis]

But anyway, I'm proud to be a core Charlotte.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Excellent. I think core Charlotte is good. I mean, that's how I think of myself, too. I'm Charlotte with some Carrie. Because that's why also, I enjoy the podcast because I can look at the themes of the relationship stuff and talk to other people, like you said about them. It's fun. It's very Carrie esque, really. You know, And Carrie did have a podcast for a minute there, but not like mine. Not where she's in charge. You know what I mean? Fun to be in charge of your podcast. I enjoy that, but I think it's so interesting. Thank you for being here. And you have to come back because you write so many of the absolutely iconic episodes, and I love to hear your memories because you have different memories than I have. You know what I mean? And to pull them together is fun.

[Kristin Davis]

Can I say, in case I don't come back, you getting married to Trey when you've just found out he can't get it up with the veil. I think I wrote that line, like Carrie tells you, like, maybe he, like, masturbating before you came home. Right. And then what do you know? Like, you're in your veil and you go, I think this stage direction was hopeful. And you go, maybe he did jerk off. It's one of my favorite moments. One of my favorite moments in El show you in your wedding dress with.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Your veil, and then do you remember shooting that? And that Betty Ann, our ad, laughed out loud. She was up on a ladder behind me, laughed out out loud and ruined a take. I was so mad.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Because that's hard to do that.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

You know what I mean? Like, it's perfect, however delicate. Thank you. And thank God I could. Could do it again because you're always like, scared, like, can I do it again? I don't know. But if you make the ad laugh on a ladder, then you know it's working. Then you also ruined the take. You know what I'm saying? But that's what I remember. I remember just wanting to thread that needle so precisely, you know. Thank you. That was a. That's a. That's a big episode in my mind as well in terms of just the. The glory of her getting what she thinks she wants. And then obviously later on we find out it's not what she wants, but what a great, great character arc, you know?

[Kristin Davis]

Thank you for having me.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Thank you for being here. And you must come back. There's too many that you wrote.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay, I'll come back.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, yeah, we'll just plan it out. I don't want to over overstay my welcome, but please come back.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay.

[Cynthia Nixon]

AG's new Fall 2025 collection from Canvas to Cloth, is inspired by artists and their studios. As someone who plays a character deeply rooted in the art world, it truly feels like something Charlotte would love. The collection blends creativity with wearability, from soft knits and suedes to new denim silhouettes like the Boyfriend Fit for women. It's relaxed, effortless, and so chic. And it's not just for women. AG has great pieces for men too. Perfect for dressing the whole family. The Fall 2025 collection is available now at aggeans.com and use code KRISTIN15 for 15% off your next order. I'm going to be using my own discount. You guys.

[Kristin Davis]

I'm so excited.

[Cynthia Nixon]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

This is an iHeart podcast.