← Are You A Charlotte?
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- [00:01]
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- [00:30]
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- [01:28]
Kristen Davis
Space80@Talkspace.Com hi, I'm Kristen Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Here we are. We are going to recap episode 111 first season, 11th episode is called the Drought and it aired in August of 1998. And with us we have Candace Bushnell, the creator of the column Sex and the City and the book Sex and the City and of all of our characters way, way, way back. So she's going to go through this episode with me, which is super exciting. This episode was directed by Matthew Harrison. I'm sorry, I have no memory of you. I really apologize. And it was written by Michael Green and Michael Patrick King. Michael Patrick King, of course we have a memory of Michael Green. I'm sorry, I also don't remember you. You probably were in la. But thank you for writing this episode. It's an enjoyable one. So this episode and thank God Candace is here to help me with it, this Episode contains this really funny thing that if you ever mention Sarah Jessica Parker, she is still mortified over, which is the fart.
- [02:37]
Candace Bushnell
The fart.
- [02:40]
Kristen Davis
And I remember at the time, the stress about it, like, how are we gonna do it? Because they had to put it in a post, right? And she was like, don't make it too big. She was very stressed.
- [02:51]
Candace Bushnell
It's really loud. I mean. Cause I watched it a couple of times, and, you know, I even remember when I first watched the episode for the first time and thinking, you know, if I farted with a guy, would I be that upset about it? A lot of women would be. You know, I think it's mortifying for a lot of women, but I just felt like for me, it wouldn't be.
- [03:22]
Kristen Davis
That big a deal.
- [03:23]
Candace Bushnell
It wouldn't be that big a big a deal. And it would just be like, oh, it was a. Whatever, Right? And it would just. One would just move on.
- [03:31]
Kristen Davis
Right.
- [03:33]
Candace Bushnell
But I went back and I watched it a couple of times, and, you know, they made that fart really, really loud.
- [03:40]
Kristen Davis
I mean, I think they thought it had to be. To be funny.
- [03:44]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. Right. Well, there was also another thing where it was.
- [03:51]
Kristen Davis
Oh, God.
- [03:52]
Candace Bushnell
It's like when Steve and Miranda finds. Yes.
- [03:59]
Kristen Davis
Yeah, that was super mortifying.
- [04:01]
Candace Bushnell
And Darren was like, candace, there was a big discussion about how big to make that mortifying. Yep.
- [04:11]
Kristen Davis
No, I know. I mean, there were times when, for the comedy, they went a little far. Maybe.
- [04:15]
Candace Bushnell
Yes, maybe.
- [04:17]
Kristen Davis
Maybe. You know, what are you gonna do? I mean, I also thought it was funny because Sarah Jessica was personally so mortified. Like, she was personally so stressed and mortified. And again, if I think back to the time we were doing things in the show that weren't being done on television and movies.
- [04:37]
Candace Bushnell
No, you never. I had never seen that.
- [04:40]
Kristen Davis
No, no. Right. So no wonder we were mortified as actresses. You know what I'm saying? We were like, we're doing stuff that no one else is doing. Like, are we gonna be shunned? Like, are we gonna be, like, hated by the industry? Like, what's gonna happen? Like, is it so embarrassing as an actor? You know, like, we were dealing with all of these things at once. And of course, it's so adorable and endearing, and her reaction is so cute. But I think the bigger issue, which is what the episode is titled, is the Drought.
- [05:09]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [05:10]
Kristen Davis
They don't have sex, and then they don't have sex for, like, two or three more times that they're together, which really sends her spinning. And that I do understand. And then the Greater conversation that it leads to, which I think is so great and relatable. Is. Is she actually being her real self with him, or is she just trying to figure out what he wants and try to be like that as much as she can, like, package herself, you know, in a way that is acceptable to him.
- [05:40]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [05:40]
Kristen Davis
And can she actually let go of that?
- [05:43]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. And of course, what Samantha says to her doesn't help. When Samantha says, you know, as a woman, you don't fart. Men don't wanna see that they want you to be a woman, which is, you know, it's a longer speech that she says. But that's pretty interesting.
- [06:06]
Kristen Davis
It's really interesting. And do you think that that is true of, like, the Samantha as you envisioned her, that she would say that? Cause you said she was someone who knew everything.
- [06:16]
Candace Bushnell
Like, that felt, even for Samantha, that felt a little out of character, her saying that.
- [06:24]
Kristen Davis
A little traditional. Kind of.
- [06:26]
Candace Bushnell
A little traditional. Because it seemed like Samantha would say something like, oh, darling, you know, let.
- [06:33]
Kristen Davis
Them deal with it.
- [06:34]
Candace Bushnell
He should get used to that, because if he does something naughty, there's gonna be more farts to come, or whatever.
- [06:40]
Kristen Davis
Sure, I agree. It was. There are things that she says early on that you are kind of like, what? But I do think that was the finding of the character. Right. So, like, we kind of, you know, went like this a bit and then, like, solidified who we were. But that was one where I also was like, well, that's really interesting that she says that, you know.
- [07:00]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [07:00]
Kristen Davis
Like, that's something that I would say. Charlotte would say.
- [07:04]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. It seems like something that Charlotte would have said.
- [07:07]
Kristen Davis
Yeah, for sure. For sure. But they don't even seem to want to tell me about it, I think. Isn't that true?
- [07:12]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. Carrie doesn't want to tell you. Yes, exactly. Sad.
- [07:18]
Kristen Davis
It's so sad that I'm so prim. Carrie can't even tell me this thing that she's, like, now spinning out about, you know, but luckily, Charlotte grew from there. But let's talk about the other ones. I have to get all my different. This. When I look back, one of the things that I am. Oh, I wanna ask you about breaking the fourth wall.
- [07:37]
Candace Bushnell
Oh, yes. That's so interesting because it's still in that episode.
- [07:41]
Kristen Davis
I know it.
- [07:42]
Candace Bushnell
And it seemed like. I mean, I remember when Darren first showed me the pilot and we were in Nevis, and I was doing a story on this, the new Four Seasons Hotel. And he showed it to me. Yes. And he showed it to me, and he was like, really scared. And there were two versions. And there was one version when I think Carrie's head was in a bubble and it moved across the screen. Yeah.
- [08:12]
Kristen Davis
He had some crazy ideas.
- [08:13]
Candace Bushnell
And it was like, okay, that was kind of weird. So he didn't go with that one. Thank God. But then. But yes, that breaking the fourth wall and talking to the camera, it's still in that episode. And I thought that they dropped that.
- [08:28]
Kristen Davis
I know. I mean, there were episodes where it wasn't. And then it comes back.
- [08:32]
Candace Bushnell
And then it came back.
- [08:33]
Kristen Davis
It's really interesting.
- [08:34]
Candace Bushnell
Which was. And Carrie talks to the camera, too.
- [08:37]
Kristen Davis
Yeah, yeah. No. Yeah. She had to. And she didn't love it. She didn't love it. And there was a kind of an ongoing discussion about it. But I think that the idea of having the people on the street. Right.
- [08:49]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. Because that made it feel like they really were interviewed.
- [08:54]
Kristen Davis
Right. And so I think that there was a lot of stress about letting that go. Because that was kind of one of the original ideas that would make it different and, like, relatable to New York City and interesting. And sometimes they had really extreme ideas. You know, they'd have, like, the more extreme storyline in their mind or whatever. But then also, we didn't get to know them. So that was a kind of an interesting. You know, what would you call it? Like a consistent, you know, that, like. Oh, yes, they're just gonna tell us this, but then we don't get to know them. But I think for her, sir, Jessica, she's talked to me about and other people, that it was hard because, you know, we've got the voiceover. Right. But then, like, when she. Especially if she's by herself and she turns and talks to the camera, who is she talking to? Right.
- [09:43]
Candace Bushnell
Yes, exactly.
- [09:45]
Kristen Davis
Who's in her apartment?
- [09:46]
Candace Bushnell
It's really interesting.
- [09:47]
Kristen Davis
Cause we're already in her head, which was so powerful. Exactly. Especially for our writer. You know, that was integral to, I think, everything that we learn about and know about her inside thinking and what she's examining and how she's examining other people's relationships and what she thinks about them. That was really super useful. But, yeah, every time I see an episode of the first season, I'm thinking that it's gone. And then all of a sudden it's back.
- [10:14]
Candace Bushnell
Exactly.
- [10:14]
Kristen Davis
So did you ever say anything to Darren about, you know, how you felt about it or wanting it or not.
- [10:19]
Candace Bushnell
Wanting it or, you know, I didn't, because I, you know, I felt like he's the, you know, TV guy.
- [10:28]
Kristen Davis
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [10:29]
Candace Bushnell
I Mean, I think that it's. I mean, like, one of the things that I've learned about TV is just, you know, in the. You know. Cause we did Lipstick Jungle and the Carrie Diaries, Right. If something doesn't work, like, everybody knows.
- [10:45]
Kristen Davis
That's a good point.
- [10:46]
Candace Bushnell
It's, you know, it's very. There very rarely is like, oh, this doesn't work, and only a couple people know it now. Everybody.
- [10:56]
Kristen Davis
So I think that's.
- [10:57]
Candace Bushnell
I think that's true.
- [10:58]
Kristen Davis
I think that's true. I think the thing for us that was interesting was that HBO really had a lot of trust in Darren. You know, they didn't say a lot. And that was really different from the networks that we had come from.
- [11:12]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [11:13]
Kristen Davis
And that was great.
- [11:14]
Candace Bushnell
And it's very different than the way it is today, of course, so.
- [11:18]
Kristen Davis
And, I mean, we were just had a. We lucked out in terms of who was in charge of HBO at the time and that we were there at the time that we were there, you know, at the beginning. It was awesome. And I think that allowed us the freedom to find the things that we liked and the things that worked and the things that didn't, you know, because they weren't really directing us one way or the other. You know, they were just letting us figure it out.
- [11:42]
Candace Bushnell
Right. And they weren't giving you the, oh, she's not likable in this scene.
- [11:47]
Kristen Davis
Right.
- [11:47]
Candace Bushnell
Which is.
- [11:48]
Kristen Davis
God, yeah, totally. Because that would have pretty much ruined everything.
- [11:52]
Candace Bushnell
Exactly, exactly.
- [11:55]
Kristen Davis
No, that's a good point, too. I mean, you don't think about that so much in terms of. I also realized when I look back, I was not objective at all at the time. I was just in it, you know, I was just in it and trying to pull it off. You know what I mean? Because it was so much a different world than anything that I knew. You know, this kind of part of New York. I had lived in New York as a poor waitress. Actress. Waitress slash actress. Very different. Very different than these women. Right. So I didn't really know that much. And I didn't know about fashion. I didn't know about hardly any of it. So I was just learning as I went and trying to seem like I knew what I was doing. That's really my main focus. Right. And now I look back on it, and I think about the storylines in such a different and interesting way. But also I have so much respect for how they were pulled together and drawn, and it was very much of the time.
- [12:46]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [12:47]
Kristen Davis
And very different.
- [12:48]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [12:48]
Kristen Davis
Very, very different.
- [12:50]
Candace Bushnell
It really feels like, you know, I mean, it reflects the way people really thought about sex and men and women.
- [13:01]
Kristen Davis
Yep.
- [13:01]
Candace Bushnell
And that's. I mean, that's actually a sign of, you know, a great piece of work, is that it does reflect the times that are in.
- [13:11]
Kristen Davis
Absolutely.
- [13:12]
Candace Bushnell
It's in. Dickens reflects the time that that was in.
- [13:16]
Kristen Davis
Of course. Of course. And that's a good point, because sometimes people want now to judge then.
- [13:23]
Candace Bushnell
Right.
- [13:23]
Kristen Davis
But it's not really fair.
- [13:25]
Candace Bushnell
No.
- [13:26]
Kristen Davis
Because it was very, very different. I know that a lot of it seems accessible and similar, but like the surrounding social scene, you know, the society's expectations and what we were coming from was very, very different.
- [13:43]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [13:44]
Kristen Davis
And sometimes I think it's hard for everyone on social media to remember that.
- [13:50]
Candace Bushnell
You know what Sarah Jessica Parker always says? What? Don't read the comments.
- [13:54]
Kristen Davis
No, she's right. Of course she's right. But I mean, like, people do whole TikToks about this stuff. You know what I'm saying?
- [13:59]
Candace Bushnell
Oh, I know.
- [14:00]
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
- [14:00]
Candace Bushnell
I know. It's super interesting, you know, and sometimes I read it and I'm just like, you don't have a. You don't have a.
- [14:09]
Kristen Davis
It's true. It's true. But I mean, it is like. But it's also.
- [14:12]
Candace Bushnell
But at the same time, it's fantastic that people are so interested in it.
- [14:19]
Kristen Davis
And the fact that it interests them to put the TikToks out.
- [14:23]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [14:24]
Kristen Davis
Even though they might not understand why Carrie keeps trying with Mr. Big back then or whatever. I get it. Because it is interesting. And there's still, like, alive. The characters are still alive for these people, which is amazing. Amazing.
- [14:45]
Hyundai Advertiser
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- [15:18]
Kristen Davis
Okay, this is a fun, fun thing. Miranda's getting her nails done, which I think is, like, so cute, with Gary. When she tells her that she has not had sex in three months and that this is terrible, I'm like, wow, three months is a long time. I mean, that's interesting. Well, tell us, Candace.
- [15:42]
Candace Bushnell
I think back then it would have been a long time. Really?
- [15:47]
Kristen Davis
I don't think for Myself, it would have been. But I'm not. I'm not them. I'm not them.
- [15:51]
Candace Bushnell
See, I see. I think that. Yeah, I think that back then, that would have been a long time. Now, you know, there are women who, you know, they say, like, I haven't had sex for four years. Right. And they're 32 years old, which to me is like, you know what? Back then, you would have had to work really, really, really hard not to have sex for four years, which is super interesting. I mean, it would have been kind of impossible. But people had a lot more sex back then than they do now.
- [16:27]
Kristen Davis
Wow.
- [16:28]
Candace Bushnell
I mean, now there actually is a sex drought.
- [16:32]
Kristen Davis
Wow.
- [16:32]
Candace Bushnell
This is for real.
- [16:34]
Kristen Davis
Whoa.
- [16:35]
Candace Bushnell
But back then, you know, people had sex a lot. So I just. I do think, like, in 1998, three months, that would have been a long time.
- [16:47]
Kristen Davis
Okay.
- [16:47]
Candace Bushnell
Because it was so easy to have sex back then.
- [16:51]
Kristen Davis
Why?
- [16:52]
Candace Bushnell
Because there was a lot of interaction, and you saw people out in person in the wild. And it also feels like. It feels like the population was younger then, and it actually was. There were more young people. There were more people in their 30s.
- [17:17]
Kristen Davis
Got it.
- [17:18]
Candace Bushnell
And there also wasn't as much to do. Like, now we have the phones, and there's gaming, and there's streaming, and everybody is in their own bubble, you know, bubble of, like, this is, you know, my entertainment. But back then, it was other people. Yes, it was other people. You went out and did stuff. You did stuff, and people wanted to have sex.
- [17:52]
Kristen Davis
Amazing to think about.
- [17:54]
Candace Bushnell
It was very easy. I mean, now I have women come up to me and, you know, I mean, attractive women in their 50s, and they'll say, like, I've been trying to have sex for the last year, and I haven't found anyone to have sex with me. Wow. Which is like, this is really a different time.
- [18:13]
Kristen Davis
It is really a different time. That's for sure. And my question would be, are they on those apps and whatnot, do you think?
- [18:20]
Candace Bushnell
Probably.
- [18:21]
Kristen Davis
Got it.
- [18:22]
Candace Bushnell
Somewhat Interesting. But also, in New York City, if you go out, you don't have to be on apps. I mean, I meet people when I'm.
- [18:32]
Kristen Davis
Out, but I think you're good at this, Candace.
- [18:35]
Candace Bushnell
Well, not really.
- [18:37]
Kristen Davis
Really, no.
- [18:38]
Candace Bushnell
And I'm on an app, too.
- [18:40]
Kristen Davis
Okay, well, Raya. Raya. I've heard about Raya.
- [18:45]
Candace Bushnell
I know. You should. I would say you should go on it, but I do not want to go on. I'm scared. Nobody ever meets anybody in person on Raya.
- [18:53]
Kristen Davis
No way. What?
- [18:55]
Candace Bushnell
This is true.
- [18:56]
Kristen Davis
Explain.
- [18:58]
Candace Bushnell
Because everybody's so busy oh, everybody is traveling. Oh, God, everybody is. They have, like, big jobs.
- [19:06]
Kristen Davis
Right.
- [19:07]
Candace Bushnell
I met one guy and I thought, oh, wow, how did, how did I get so lucky? Because this guy's like, good looking. And I think he asked me out again and I was like, no, I'm traveling. What about this week? And he said, I'm going away for two weeks.
- [19:24]
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
- [19:24]
Candace Bushnell
So that happens a lot.
- [19:26]
Kristen Davis
Got it, got it. I get it, I get it. This would be the people I know as well.
- [19:32]
Candace Bushnell
Yes, I'm sure the people I know.
- [19:33]
Kristen Davis
As well are all right. I just don't know because I'm not on there. But yeah, it's. It's. Once you get to a certain level of success, it's hard to find the time.
- [19:41]
Candace Bushnell
Yes, it is.
- [19:42]
Kristen Davis
But maybe it's our priorities also, you know, maybe we just don't have it as a priority because we're so busy and doing our business that is important to us, our job or whatever. Whereas back when we were younger, we didn't have these things to distract us. So we were like, yeah, let's try it out.
- [19:57]
Candace Bushnell
Yes, that's. That's very true. And also there was something like today it feels like people have to work every angle to make money, to survive.
- [20:08]
Kristen Davis
I think that's true.
- [20:08]
Candace Bushnell
You know, it's like they, you know, they have to be on social media. They have to, you know, there's just all kinds of things that people do to make ends meet. And, you know, I mean, I look back on, I used to spend weekends just like hanging out with friends, you know, some house in the country. Yeah, it's like I never do that now and nobody I know does it. Everybody's. They're always like, trying to catch up on something.
- [20:37]
Kristen Davis
So sad.
- [20:38]
Candace Bushnell
I guess it is.
- [20:39]
Kristen Davis
I think it is a little sad. I hadn't thought about that. But yeah, let's think about that some more because I think you're right. Now, let's talk about them getting their nails done because I also, I really love all of the Miranda Carey scenes. I really had not really understood the through line of, like, them walking together and talking about things, them, you know, going to the drugstore to get the pregnancy test in the last episode of the Baby Shower. And like, they, they have such great, you know, kind of deep conversations. And Miranda really kind of is the only one who totally kind of gets her and tells her things. Honestly, you, you know, do you feel that?
- [21:18]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. And, but see, I always think that part of that is because they've known each other in real life since you Mean the actors? Yes, since they were actors.
- [21:30]
Kristen Davis
I don't think that is why. I don't think that is why. I'll tell you why I don't think that is why. Because their relationship in life is very different than their relationship on camera. Oh, yeah.
- [21:40]
Candace Bushnell
I always thought that, you know, they were really good friends and they'd known each other since then.
- [21:44]
Kristen Davis
I mean, and they are. And they were, for sure. But it's just a very different vibe than what. What the Miranda Carey vibe is. And Miranda Carey vibe was really present in season one, like, from the get go. It's super fascinating, like, whatever, I guess, because they're different, but not so different as, say, Samantha and Charlotte where we're, like, really, really different. And it's kind of hard for us to find a meeting ground in a conversation, you know what I'm saying? Because she would be very much one way and I would be very much the other way. But Carrie and Miranda are not that opposed. You know, they're just slightly different takes on things. And maybe Miranda's gonna say something to her like, you know, you shouldn't have cheated with Big or whatever. So I'm giving an example. But, you know, she might tell her like it is, whereas Charlotte probably wouldn't. You know, she might just be like, oh, God, why'd she do that? But she's not gonna say that. And then obviously Samantha would be like, oh, men cheat all the time. You know what I'm trying to say? Everyone has very distinct points of view. But because Miranda and Carrie are just kind of similar enough and different enough that their conversations really are.
- [22:54]
Candace Bushnell
They resonate.
- [22:55]
Kristen Davis
They resonate and they move things forward for each character in a really interesting way. I really love them. So here we are. They're getting the nails done and not Charlotte. Miranda tells her, I haven't had sex in three months. And she's concerned. And then Carrie's saying.
- [23:12]
Candace Bushnell
Carrie has this look on her face, like, what?
- [23:15]
Kristen Davis
I know. It's really, like, an emergency. It's so crazy. But then Carrie is saying, and this is actually a really good point point that it's different not having someone to have sex with than not. Than being with someone and not having sex. Which I do understand, because when you're in the early part of a relationship, you're looking for signs and you're trying to figure things out. Also, partly because she keeps trying to talk to Big when she's had a few drinks and whatnot in the past episodes. And he doesn't really have much to say. Right. He's aloof. So she's just busy kind of bobbing and weaving, trying to get clues, you know, about him. Right. So then when he suddenly wants to not have sex, he says, I'm tired. And he rolls over. Like, in a way, I would think, like, that's a kind of a different level of intimacy. If you think about it.
- [24:01]
Candace Bushnell
You know, it is. And also, he's so churlish about it, too. Like, he's like, I'm tired.
- [24:08]
Kristen Davis
He is not.
- [24:09]
Candace Bushnell
And, you know, not like, oh, honey, I'm tired tonight. That's right. Tomorrow.
- [24:16]
Kristen Davis
Right. Or not like, you look great. Because she comes out of that little negligee adorable. He doesn't say like, right. And he's like, what's wrong with you?
- [24:25]
Candace Bushnell
Exactly.
- [24:26]
Kristen Davis
I think the way. The way, like, the style of communication was very, like, eluvian. I personally remember trying to get men to talk to me back then. You know, like, you just be like, how do I do it? How do I get them to talk about their feelings? Like, it was, like, took up a lot of time to try to figure this out back then. Whereas now I think you would decide, like, am I. Do I like that person enough that I'm going to try to have this conversation? Right. And then hopefully that person would have enough development, personal development, that they could have that conversation. And if they couldn't, you might be like, okay, I'm out.
- [25:05]
Candace Bushnell
Yes, right. Exactly.
- [25:07]
Kristen Davis
Whereas then we were just like, oh, we got to try a different way.
- [25:11]
Candace Bushnell
Exactly. And, you know, now women, they want these guys to go to therapy.
- [25:17]
Kristen Davis
Yeah. Oh, listen.
- [25:19]
Candace Bushnell
That would have been shocking. You could. You could. You would never even bring it up.
- [25:24]
Kristen Davis
It's so true. That's a really excellent point. Because now I do think it's like, there are different groups of men. There are the men who are willing to work on themselves, and they're the men who aren't. And, you know, you just have to know who you're dealing with and whether you're okay with that. Right. Whereas back then, we didn't really have choices.
- [25:41]
Candace Bushnell
No.
- [25:41]
Kristen Davis
There just were men who weren't.
- [25:42]
Candace Bushnell
No.
- [25:43]
Kristen Davis
And you had to figure out where could you live with it?
- [25:45]
Candace Bushnell
Yes, exactly. Exactly. Oh, my gosh.
- [25:48]
Kristen Davis
It's crazy to think about. Okay, I'm gonna look at this again because I gotta stay on my topics. I mean, listen, I've got. I've already asked you half those questions. Oh, this is such a great storyline. Samantha's at yoga with that hot yoga instructor. Yes, Siddhartha. Oh, my gosh. I did not remember this at all. I mean, that guy's great.
- [26:10]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. And he's celibate or he's not having.
- [26:13]
Kristen Davis
Which is super interesting because it's, like, very sexy. And of course, Samantha, I'm gonna get you the actor's name so that we can not just call him that guy. His name is Anthony Desando. Oh, I know. I looked him up and he did do other things, but, I mean, maybe we need to track him down. It's always interesting to find these actors, you know, and talk to them.
- [26:31]
Candace Bushnell
It is. Well, I saw that you had Andrea. Yeah, Andrea Bocatel.
- [26:37]
Kristen Davis
So much fun.
- [26:38]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [26:39]
Kristen Davis
And he's lovely.
- [26:40]
Candace Bushnell
He is.
- [26:40]
Kristen Davis
And he had nice things to say about you, too, which was so nice.
- [26:43]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. He's a sweetie. He was a very nice guy.
- [26:46]
Kristen Davis
He's a sweetie.
- [26:47]
Candace Bushnell
He is. And in fact, when I wanted to know him on that show, I was like, you know what? I should look him up. He felt so much younger.
- [26:55]
Kristen Davis
Oh, my God.
- [26:56]
Candace Bushnell
Yeah. At the time.
- [26:57]
Kristen Davis
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [26:58]
Candace Bushnell
But now I'm like, he's really just, like 10 years younger.
- [27:00]
Kristen Davis
Yeah. That's a big deal. Totally. He's a sweetheart. He's a sweetheart. And I do also. I mean, he was so young and beautiful. Good God. And he's still. Still very beautiful. And this guy reminded me also of, like, really good casting, you know, really good casting of that yoga teacher. And what I love, because I remember all the hot yoga, you know, power yoga classes all had hot men teachers in la, at least. And I'm sure in New York, too, though I was too busy working to find out. But Samantha's there and she's doing her yoga and he's touching her. And those yoga classes were so filled with sexual energy, like, really, truly. And was this an actual storyline?
- [27:38]
Candace Bushnell
Not that I know of. I never have taken yoga. What?
- [27:42]
Kristen Davis
What?
- [27:42]
Candace Bushnell
I've. I have.
- [27:44]
Kristen Davis
How's that possible?
- [27:45]
Candace Bushnell
Because I can't touch my toes, so. And everyone's always like, oh, Candace, you could get in. You know, if you keep working at it, you can. It's like, no, you don't understand. It's like, I am just not built that way.
- [27:59]
Kristen Davis
Okay.
- [27:59]
Candace Bushnell
I can do Pilates.
- [28:00]
Kristen Davis
Okay, well, that's good yoga. Then you're fine. Okay, then you're fine.
- [28:04]
Candace Bushnell
So I actually taken maybe two yoga classes in my life.
- [28:10]
Kristen Davis
Okay.
- [28:10]
Candace Bushnell
But that was such a New York thing.
- [28:13]
Kristen Davis
It was. It was so good. And la. It could have been LA at that time, too, but I never met one who was celibate. Those yoga teachers were. Were doing well. They were doing well with the ladies, let me tell you.
- [28:26]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [28:26]
Kristen Davis
But that guy. Oh, his eyes. He was so great. And it was so interesting to see Samantha trying all of her Samantha ways and not being able to succeed. And then they go out to that lunch where he tells her that he's celibate and to think about all the sexual energy that he saved up.
- [28:44]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [28:44]
Kristen Davis
Like, it was fascinating.
- [28:47]
Candace Bushnell
Exactly.
- [28:48]
Kristen Davis
But then she didn't know what to do.
- [28:50]
Candace Bushnell
No. And I think that, you know, that's. I mean, there is that. What is that? There is that technique that's supposedly tangerine. Yes. Supposedly Sting was all in favor of. You know, I remember that kind of.
- [29:09]
Kristen Davis
I remember this.
- [29:10]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [29:10]
Kristen Davis
You know, you talk about hours and hours and hours, and you're just like, whoa.
- [29:15]
Candace Bushnell
And then you. And you guys even did that episode.
- [29:18]
Kristen Davis
Oh, my God.
- [29:19]
Candace Bushnell
With.
- [29:20]
Kristen Davis
That was a crazy episode.
- [29:23]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. Oh, Lord.
- [29:24]
Kristen Davis
That was a stressful episode. You guys were talking about the episode where there's this. This. This older couple and they're doing tetric sex. And then there's hand lotion. I'm not going to go into it, but hand lotion gets squirted at me or Marin.
- [29:38]
Candace Bushnell
I can't remember.
- [29:39]
Kristen Davis
Oh, it was so mortifying to watch.
- [29:44]
Candace Bushnell
Darren, just, like, he loved that. He, like, found that couple. Yeah, I guess they were a real couple.
- [29:50]
Kristen Davis
They were.
- [29:51]
Candace Bushnell
They were. They were.
- [29:51]
Kristen Davis
I remember this. And also in this particular episode is when we watch through the Windows. And I remember those people had to be hired, willing to actually have sex. And we were not there at the time. And they were, I believe, porn actors. And I'm really sorry if they weren't, but I'm pretty sure that they were because they basically said to them, you guys are really going to have to have sex. They didn't want to have to pretend or whatever. They wanted them to actually have sex, but we were not there. We didn't have to actually watch. We had to pretend that we were watching. And then we had to all turn our heads at the same time.
- [30:24]
Candace Bushnell
Right. Because that. That moment when everybody turns their heads at the same time is such a classic Sex in the city moment. And that photograph is everywhere.
- [30:35]
Kristen Davis
I know. I know of like that. I know. It's cute. It's cute.
- [30:39]
Candace Bushnell
It is.
- [30:39]
Kristen Davis
I like it. I mean, we look really young and cute, and I don't know why my hair's parted in the middle, but other than that, it's good. And I do remember us just being kind of like, what? Like, people are actually gonna have sex? Like, what? But then we weren't there and they made it private for them and all of that. And they knew when they were hired that was what they were gonna do.
- [30:58]
Candace Bushnell
Right? And they also seemed to be really far away.
- [31:01]
Kristen Davis
Right? Which worked.
- [31:02]
Candace Bushnell
Yes, that worked.
- [31:03]
Kristen Davis
That worked.
- [31:10]
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- [31:41]
Hes Yu Jo
Hey, everyone. I'm Jenna Bush Hager from the Today show and I'm excited to share my podcast Open Book with Jenna. It is back for season two. Each week, celebrities, experts, friends and authors will share candid stories with me about their lives and new projects. Guests like Rebecca Yarros, Kristin Hannah, Ego Wodom, and more. Like a good book, you'll leave feeling inspired and entertained. Join me for my podcast, Open Book with Jenna. To start listening. Just search Open Book with Jenna wherever you get your podcast.
- [32:14]
Kristen Davis
Oh, this is when I get together with this dude. Okay. So I get together with this guy. His name is Kevin.
- [32:20]
Candace Bushnell
Exactly.
- [32:20]
Kristen Davis
Oh, my gosh. I didn't really remember much of this. Very interesting. So I get together with him. I take Carrie out to meet him. Turns out they already know each other and have hooked up in the past. So they don't use those words, but that's the.
- [32:36]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. And she says that he's a sex maniac and that's one of the reasons why she's not with him.
- [32:41]
Kristen Davis
Right? And I'm like, what? Because we haven't even had sex. And I think he's so polite. But then I'm intrigued, it seems, and I want to figure out what this is. So I kind of attack him somewhat in the cab and I say, thanks for respecting my boundaries, you know, which is such a Charlotte type of a line. And then he says, sure, but he also, the actor plays it really well because he's very even keeled. So you don't know what's coming. But, like, when you look back on, he's very even keeled. Like he's not bothered by anything. Do you know what I mean? Then we get to the bedroom and you see me just working very, very hard below frame, right?
- [33:16]
Candace Bushnell
And he says, it's like a taffy pole, which is so embarrassing.
- [33:21]
Kristen Davis
And I remember being super stressed about how we were gonna film it and trying. And this is one thing I wanted to know your thoughts on. One of the things I remember being concerned about the first season was that any sex scenes be something that was from the female perspective. You know, that we were making the show for women to watch, not just for the male gaze.
- [33:44]
Candace Bushnell
Right.
- [33:44]
Kristen Davis
And we didn't want to make the women uncomfortable. And I was really worried in that scene that the women were going to be uncomfortable. I look at it now. I think it's really funny and very relatable.
- [33:54]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [33:54]
Kristen Davis
But at the time, this was just not something that you saw. No, especially not working and whatever. I mean, it was so many things that you didn't normally see.
- [34:07]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. But don't you feel like you've done so much more since then? I mean, even in. And just like that.
- [34:16]
Kristen Davis
I don't know. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right, Candace. Yes, you're right. But you know what I think, and I was thinking about this earlier because I do think at the time, because we were brand new the show, and your column was not. It's not like there were columns like yours all across the country. They weren't. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, it was new. There was a newness to women talking honestly about sex and what they wanted and what they weren't good at or what they were worried about or all of those things. But I don't think for myself, I can say I was not that evolved as a person, you know, much less as an actor. Like, I had insecurities. I had a lot of anxiety about my body. I was really scared to show my body, body all the time. Now, that's not necessarily something where I felt like, yes, I'm right. I felt like, no, I want to be more evolved. But then my insecurities would get in the way and I'd be really nervous. You know, it was always. We were always included in the decisions about what the storyline was, how we were going to film it, what we were going to wear. There was paperwork about it. You know, it was. It was very involved. And I always felt very respected, like from the show, from hbo, from everyone, you know, like, it wasn't. I mean, there were a few moments maybe where things were not perfect, and then you could go to someone and say, hey, can you move? You know, the camera crew away? And they would do it, you know, What I'm saying, we had power is really what I mean.
- [35:47]
Candace Bushnell
Right.
- [35:47]
Kristen Davis
But we were coming from a place in the industry where we didn't have power as women, as actresses. So it was new, you know, and it was new to be showing these things. Like, I had never seen an actress that I liked, like Sandra Bullock or, I don't know, whoever was of the time, Julia Roberts. I had never seen them trying to give a hand job off camera and not succeeding. Like, do what? I mean, right. Like, this is not something that was going on. So it was scary to do it, you know.
- [36:18]
Candace Bushnell
Well, I think. I think the thing that was interesting about it and very real is that, you know, sex is messy.
- [36:27]
Kristen Davis
It's true.
- [36:28]
Candace Bushnell
It doesn't always, you know, it doesn't always go. It isn't something out of, like a romance novel.
- [36:36]
Kristen Davis
No, that's true.
- [36:37]
Candace Bushnell
You know. You know, these are human beings and. And in some ways, like, that's sort of the more interesting part.
- [36:46]
Kristen Davis
I think you're 100% right. I just didn't know it at the time. Did you know what I mean? Like, I didn't know it at the time. I felt like we're doing the scary thing. We don't know how people are going to react. We don't know if they're going to think less of us for doing it. Like, we don't. I just remember my brain just being like, ah, you know, which has to do a lot. I mean, I'm sure that it has to do a lot with how I was raised and shame about sex in general. You know what I'm saying? But we're playing these characters who are, you know, on the forefront of trying to change those things, which I totally agreed with. Right. And I wanted to change those things. They didn't mean. It was always easy to do.
- [37:20]
Candace Bushnell
Yes, exactly. Well, then the guy turns out to be on Prozac.
- [37:25]
Kristen Davis
Right. Which makes perfect sense. And such a good storyline.
- [37:28]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. And that was. I mean, that would have been really new then, too.
- [37:35]
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
- [37:36]
Candace Bushnell
Because, you know, Prozac was a new thing.
- [37:39]
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
- [37:40]
Candace Bushnell
And, you know, not everybody was taking it.
- [37:43]
Kristen Davis
Yeah, no, it was great. And who knew anything about it?
- [37:46]
Candace Bushnell
Exactly.
- [37:47]
Kristen Davis
We didn't know all of the side effects.
- [37:49]
Candace Bushnell
Exactly.
- [37:49]
Kristen Davis
And it's perfect. And the fact that he was so. Even killed. And I'm like, well, you know, mightn't you go off it? And he's like, no, why would I do that?
- [37:59]
Candace Bushnell
He's like, I'm so happy. I have no stress.
- [38:01]
Kristen Davis
Exactly. And then you see Charlotte go like, oh, this is a big deal. This is a deal breaker for me, which is really interesting. I like it so much. And I had not remembered that storyline at all. This is one where I'm like, what's going to happen? I have all these moments rewatch where I'm like, what's gonna happen in the threesome episode? I have a dream about the threesome, and I thought I was gonna kiss them. I was like, I don't even remember kissing those people. I know, but I didn't. I didn't. Anyway, it's all very interesting. Okay, let's catch up on Carrie. She goes over when Big is watching the fight. And that made me sad. That scene just really brought me back to that. That time of, like, you know, the men are doing their things and you're trying all your things and it's not working. And I really felt bad for Carrie.
- [38:42]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. And I feel like we've all been there.
- [38:46]
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
- [38:47]
Candace Bushnell
And, yeah. I mean, it's. That just feels, you know, very real. But also, as a woman, back then, that would have been one of the most perplexing and disturbing moments because we felt like men should always want to have sex.
- [39:15]
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
- [39:16]
Candace Bushnell
And then if they don't, then you start thinking, what is wrong? What's wrong? What's wrong with me? It's got to be something that's wrong with you.
- [39:26]
Kristen Davis
Right.
- [39:27]
Candace Bushnell
It's not something that's wrong with them. So the interesting thing, I think, in this episode is that there's actually something wrong with the men.
- [39:36]
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
- [39:37]
Candace Bushnell
Not with the women. The women are actually fine. Like, Charlotte's fine, but the guy's taking Prozac. I don't remember, like, why was Mr. Big not having sex? He was, like, distracted. We never found that out.
- [39:51]
Kristen Davis
We don't know a lot about Mr. Big this whole first season. We really don't. We really don't. I mean, and this is so me when I'm watching it. I think he's trying to take the relationship to the next level. And his next level is that it's not all about sexual. But that could just mean, you know, they being nice.
- [40:11]
Candace Bushnell
But. But, I mean, that is supposedly, like, one of the signs when, you know, a relationship is getting more serious, when you don't have to have sex with a guy every night.
- [40:24]
Kristen Davis
Right. Which makes sense. You can just be.
- [40:27]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [40:27]
Kristen Davis
So he's trying his own version. And this is me being generous towards him. Right. He's trying his own version of just being himself in front of Carrie. And what Carrie comes to in the episode in her adorable Apartment painting phase, which I also didn't remember. And the egg crew or the eggshell. Oh, my God, it's so 90s. It's just killing me.
- [40:48]
Candace Bushnell
Well, actually, I think when he comes into that. Into the apartment at the end, I was like, whoa. Like, Mr. Big is really. He's really cool in this scene. Like, for some, I was like, it was different. His acting's really good here.
- [41:05]
Kristen Davis
No, it was the first. First time I liked him. Honestly, I think it was the first time I liked him.
- [41:08]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. I mean, it was kind of, like, wry and nice.
- [41:12]
Kristen Davis
He was a little nicer.
- [41:13]
Candace Bushnell
Yes, exactly.
- [41:14]
Kristen Davis
And he says, like, I like it. She's like, it's a mess. And he's like, no, I like it here. And you're like, thank God.
- [41:20]
Candace Bushnell
Yes, exactly. It's like he finally likes something.
- [41:23]
Kristen Davis
Right. About Carrie. Which is really nice, because also, you realize she has not invited him over that whole time. Interesting.
- [41:33]
Candace Bushnell
And, you know, he's like, finally, I get to come over. And he's very cool. Yes. I agree with you. That's like, one of the first times that we really like him 100%.
- [41:46]
Kristen Davis
And part of the reason we like him is because she's kind of shut down because she's been spinning out about them not having sex and him kind of, like, manhandling her off of him when she's trying to kiss him. Which is just, like, painful to watch. Right. And she thinks it's because of the thing that happened in the bed at the beginning that we won't mention. Cause I'm, you know, Charlotte. But it's not. It's because, you know, he thinks that's funny. Oh, we left out that he puts that whoopee cushion under her.
- [42:11]
Candace Bushnell
Ooh. Yes. But I think that that kind of. Like, when I first saw that scene. Cause I'd forgotten about the whoopee cushion. I. I was like, wait, did she fart again? Because somehow. No, he was very cushion.
- [42:32]
Kristen Davis
Very quickly. Y.
- [42:34]
Candace Bushnell
And. But you see, like, she's sitting kind of gingerly the first time.
- [42:39]
Kristen Davis
Yep.
- [42:40]
Candace Bushnell
And then. So I wondered if that whoopee cushion was there the whole time.
- [42:44]
Kristen Davis
No, he gets it out and does it. He asks her to get him sauced, and she says, sure, I'll get. I'll get it. She looks at him like, you usually ask me to do stuff like that. And she goes to get it. He gets her up out of that chair to put that whoopee cushion. It's a plan. Okay. He's got a plan. Ay, ay, yi. I would have been Mad.
- [43:03]
Candace Bushnell
See, I thought it was kind of. I thought it broke the ice.
- [43:06]
Kristen Davis
Well, I think that's what you were saying you probably would have done if you had been in Carrie's situation was make a joke. Which I think is a good. That's a good call.
- [43:12]
Candace Bushnell
Right.
- [43:13]
Kristen Davis
But obviously I'm not a Carrie in that way or whatever. Anyway, let's get back to them. So I love that scene also. But I also love the scene where Miranda comes over to help paint and basically has the conversation with her about how she is enough and she should just be herself with him.
- [43:29]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [43:30]
Kristen Davis
And that was so. It was such.
- [43:32]
Candace Bushnell
That's very touching.
- [43:33]
Kristen Davis
Yeah. And it's a good follow through of like how their relationship, the Miranda Carey relationship goes. Because that is incredible advice. This is the advice she needs. She is enough. You know, she should show him her messy self. You know, and she really has. When she's had the drinks and gone over there and kind of freaked out, as she calls it. She really has shown him some of it. But she should just own it is what Miranda's saying.
- [43:56]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. And it's interesting because, you know, that's the kind of advice that we give to women all the time now. Good point is, you know, we always say you should be yourself and you are enough.
- [44:09]
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
- [44:10]
Candace Bushnell
And it's interesting because that was, you know, 25 years ago. But now that's advice that we give women all the time.
- [44:19]
Kristen Davis
Which is great.
- [44:20]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [44:21]
Kristen Davis
I don't think anyone ever said that to me back then.
- [44:24]
Candace Bushnell
No.
- [44:25]
Kristen Davis
No. And I don't think anyone ever said you are enough. I don't even think they said that.
- [44:29]
Candace Bushnell
No, they were just like be thinner.
- [44:40]
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- [45:13]
Kristen Davis
Poor Samantha is. Interestingly. Do you remember that scene of her alone where she's gonna masturbate because she's been frustrated by this yoga teacher? But then she doesn't. Was also really kind of interesting.
- [45:28]
Candace Bushnell
I'm trying to now. I kind of don't. That must have been a very short scene.
- [45:32]
Kristen Davis
It was, it was. And it was more interesting because I don't remember Any other time that Samantha couldn't somehow pleasure herself or find some way or some person or whatever. It's interesting. Samantha's interesting in the beginning. You know, kind of like this way, that way, you know, she's there and she's powerful, you know, which I think is one of the really, really great parts of Samantha is the power, the kind of self possession that she has and had and whatnot will always have. But like, she's kind of interestingly like. Do you remember early on when we go out and she gets drunk and I take her home to my apartment, she has sex with my doorman?
- [46:12]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. That is.
- [46:16]
Kristen Davis
Oh.
- [46:17]
Candace Bushnell
Oh, no, that's. No, I was just going to say that is so the kind of thing that would happen in New York.
- [46:25]
Kristen Davis
Right.
- [46:25]
Candace Bushnell
At a certain years ago.
- [46:28]
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
- [46:29]
Candace Bushnell
I feel like, you know, I feel like that's in a lot of ways a true story.
- [46:35]
Kristen Davis
A true story from yourself. Is that why you're not answering right now?
- [46:39]
Candace Bushnell
Well, no, I wouldn't do that.
- [46:41]
Kristen Davis
No. Okay.
- [46:42]
Candace Bushnell
But I feel like I know people who would do that.
- [46:45]
Kristen Davis
Got it. I mean, look, he was an adorable, very, very Samantha. But the funny thing was that she was drunk and Charlotte takes her home to take care of her. That was the part that threw me off the doorman part made total sense. But like, that I would have to caretake Samantha and bring her home to my couch. Like, how crazy. You know what I mean? She's so, you know, in charge of everything. But I mean, I like that, that we see these, these different sides of her, you know, in the beginning.
- [47:12]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. Well, I actually, I like the end of that episode when she's in the yoga class and she says that one guy, so hysterical and he's like, what? I know.
- [47:23]
Kristen Davis
Well, that the first guy she asks is Travis. Who's our, our prop guy? Oh, yes, that was Travis. I was like, what is Travis? Travis works now on the Gilded Age with Cynthia. He's like a fifth generation prop master.
- [47:36]
Candace Bushnell
Wow.
- [47:37]
Kristen Davis
Yeah. Yeah. And he and his sister were our props department. And man, let me tell you, that guy like kept us together for the entire show. Cause think about the props in the show. We had props out the wazoo. There were props everywhere, eating, drinking bags. You know. Sir, Jessica loves props. Right. Travis was always there. Like Travis would hide, like if we had to pick something up or put something down. But we couldn't get a piece of furniture in. Cause the camera, Travis's hand would just be down here, just ready. And you just put it in Travis's hand and pretend like you know, and he'd whisk it away. I mean, like so many. He was so integral to everything. That was Travis, the first person she asked.
- [48:18]
Candace Bushnell
Oh, that's so funny.
- [48:19]
Kristen Davis
Isn't that funny?
- [48:19]
Candace Bushnell
I don't know. He's actually a very good actor.
- [48:22]
Kristen Davis
I know. He was great. He's the one who says no, and then the one who says yes. I think that was an actor. But, yeah, that was pretty funny. And a good, good ending. That was a good, good ending for Saman. For sure. For sure, for sure. And then I think we end for the whole episode on the big Carrie, you know, kind of coming together in a new way in the apartment, which is so adorable. And I wanted to ask you an apartment question because I have a lot of questions about Carrie's apartment. Do you remember in the pilot, she lives over a coffee shop with a neon sign?
- [48:51]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [48:52]
Kristen Davis
Is that accurate to you?
- [48:55]
Candace Bushnell
Well, I lived on the Upper east side.
- [48:57]
Kristen Davis
Right. Which she does in the beginning.
- [48:58]
Candace Bushnell
Which she does in the beginning. But no, the coffee shop, that was very. I think that was very Darren.
- [49:05]
Kristen Davis
Okay.
- [49:06]
Candace Bushnell
He wanted, you know, that. And then I think, don't they meet in a coffee shop? Do they? We.
- [49:12]
Kristen Davis
Us, the girls. Yes, we do. But we don't have the coffee shop set yet. We were meeting in this really crazy kind of ick restaurant, no offense, in Long Island City. That didn't last long because it was.
- [49:26]
Candace Bushnell
Right, right.
- [49:27]
Kristen Davis
Yeah. So eventually we build the coffee shop set, which then became the central, you know, foursome scene. Right. But Carrie, the thing was confusing. Like, did you write in a coffee shop? Like, what is the coffee shop?
- [49:39]
Candace Bushnell
No, I just didn't like. I feel like Darren felt that that was very New York.
- [49:45]
Kristen Davis
Got it. Okay.
- [49:47]
Candace Bushnell
And, yes. But, no, I lived in. I actually lived in a doorman building when I was writing Amazing. Sex and the City.
- [49:55]
Kristen Davis
Got it. Okay.
- [49:57]
Candace Bushnell
79Th street, based on you.
- [49:58]
Kristen Davis
Okay, so I think she says 70, which is strange. But then, like, when did we move to the Village? I don't know. I don't know.
- [50:08]
Candace Bushnell
I don't know.
- [50:09]
Kristen Davis
I don't know either.
- [50:10]
Candace Bushnell
Well, let's just talk about Carrie's apartment, because in that episode. This, episode, 11.
- [50:16]
Kristen Davis
Yeah.
- [50:17]
Candace Bushnell
It's like, wait a minute. Her apartment looks fricking huge.
- [50:23]
Kristen Davis
You think?
- [50:23]
Candace Bushnell
Because I always thought that her apartment was kind of the bedroom and the closet. But in that. In that episode, she's got this big kitchen. She's painting those cabinets.
- [50:37]
Kristen Davis
Right? No, those cabinets were like.
- [50:39]
Candace Bushnell
And there's a living room.
- [50:40]
Kristen Davis
Well, so it was one. It was one room. It Was like a. It was like a circle. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, you'd come in the door here. There were books here, and the kitchen was here. It's a kitchenette, I think, would be the proper term. And the cabinets were set back a little bit. Right. So there is, like, a little. Like when she's in that little area painting that one cabinet that's realistic to the apartment set that we've had forever. And then you would come back out, like in the pilot, which I wonder where we filmed that. We have Chinese food. Do you remember? All the girls are at her house and we have Chinese food. Maybe we did have this. I don't know if we had the set build. But you. So then you would come out, and she had that kind of ugly chaise lounge that was big and square, like rectangle square with kind of like turquoise ish fabric on it. And that was kind of floating in the middle. Then there was a coffee table. Then the bed's right there. So there's no wall or anything. The bed's. It's not that big.
- [51:41]
Candace Bushnell
But somehow in that episode, it felt like there was some kind of separation. And I just was thinking, like, how did it grow bigger than I remember it being? And of course, that made me jealous, because that's New York City.
- [51:57]
Kristen Davis
It's funny.
- [51:58]
Candace Bushnell
Nobody ever has a big enough apartment.
- [52:00]
Kristen Davis
Well, it's true. And in the beginning, we definitely didn't. Because when we're in Charlotte's, it's like, that's when I had two flats. Two white walls.
- [52:07]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [52:08]
Kristen Davis
That we would just move whichever way had to be moved. Which is really entertaining. But I do think with Carrie's. I think what happened was they got a crane to swoop down. So you're seeing it in a slightly different way than you have previously, because things straight on. They like to shoot her straight on through the window when she's typing. Right. So this was the first time, I think there had been kind of like a cool crane shot. But in the pilot, or maybe the first episode, probably the pilot, there was also. This is when the neon sign's outside the window.
- [52:45]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [52:46]
Kristen Davis
You know, she looks like she has literally one room that says big as the area that you and I are talking. And there's, like, an empty champagne bottle. There are clothes everywhere. Like, she's like, 18 years old. You know what I mean? Like, it is a mess. A mess to the point where I was like, I do not think that is how Candace was living when she was writing that column. Do you Know what I mean? Like, it was a lot.
- [53:07]
Candace Bushnell
Well, I was sleeping on a fold out couch when I was writing that column.
- [53:12]
Kristen Davis
Oh, what? Okay.
- [53:13]
Candace Bushnell
Yes. Wow.
- [53:14]
Kristen Davis
Maybe that's what Darren was basing it on.
- [53:17]
Candace Bushnell
And it probably was pretty messy too.
- [53:20]
Kristen Davis
Okay, okay.
- [53:22]
Candace Bushnell
Okay. Yes.
- [53:24]
Kristen Davis
That's interesting.
- [53:25]
Candace Bushnell
And I had. And I lived in this apartment with a friend and I had. It was really like our office slash, but I lived there, so I slept on a fold out couch.
- [53:40]
Kristen Davis
Wow.
- [53:41]
Candace Bushnell
And then there was a little kitchen. And I had put my desk in the window in the kitchen. And so that kind of looked out on an air shaft. And so that was, you know, so I was always like looking out. It was a partial air shaft.
- [53:57]
Kristen Davis
Got it. So during the brown wall and made it a little better.
- [54:01]
Candace Bushnell
Then there was like Skyline.
- [54:03]
Kristen Davis
But so he kind of. It's like he took that and made it a little more cinematic.
- [54:07]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [54:07]
Kristen Davis
In the beginning. And then. Then it maybe grew once we built the set.
- [54:11]
Candace Bushnell
Yes, I would say so. Yeah.
- [54:13]
Kristen Davis
And then the closet for Carrie's was just like a row that went to the bathroom. It was just the hallway that went to the bathroom. So they just had hanging and shelves there. So it wasn't. There weren't really that many walls. You know what I'm saying? It was kind of a glorified studio, right?
- [54:28]
Candace Bushnell
Yes.
- [54:29]
Kristen Davis
Which is what it was supposed to be, right?
- [54:32]
Candace Bushnell
Yeah.
- [54:33]
Kristen Davis
All right. Thank you for being with us, Candace. It's fun, right?
- [54:36]
Candace Bushnell
It's so much fun. And you're brilliant at this. Thank.
- [54:44]
Jenna Bush Hager
This podcast is supported by BetterHelp, offering licensed therapists you can connect with via video phone or chat. Here's BetterHelp, head of clinical operations, Hes Yu Jo discussing who can benefit from therapy.
- [54:59]
BetterHelp Advertiser
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- [55:33]
Jenna Bush Hager
Find out if therapy is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com today. That's betterhelp.com.