Strike A Pose. Vogue.

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Strike A Pose. Vogue." – Are You A Charlotte?

Episode Overview In the “Strike A Pose. Vogue.” episode of Are You A Charlotte?, hosted by Kristin Davis, the conversation centers around fashion, the enduring legacy of Sex and the City, and insights from special guest Chloe Mal, editor of Vogue.com. The episode delves into personal anecdotes from the show’s production, the intersection of fashion and media, and contemporary fashion challenges.

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1. Introduction and Guest Background

Timestamp: [03:44 – 04:24]

Kristin Davis welcomes Chloe Mal, highlighting her as a "second-generation member of the family" with deep connections to the Sex and the City universe. Chloe introduces herself as a "Vogue nepo baby," emphasizing her role as the editor of Vogue.com and her background in fashion journalism.

Notable Quote:

• Kristin Davis [03:56]: “You are basically a second generation member of the family.”
• Chloe Mal [04:02]: “I'm an SATC nepo baby.”

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2. Chloe Mal’s Career and Role at Vogue

Timestamp: [04:24 – 13:23]

Chloe Mal discusses her career trajectory, starting with her work at the New York Observer and the Times, leading up to her role at Vogue. She shares how connections within the publishing and media industries facilitated her entry into Vogue, initially managing the "Flash" section before transitioning to oversee the website.

Notable Quotes:

• Chloe Mal [08:23]: “My connections to Vogue got me interviews here in the first place.”
• Kristin Davis [10:19]: “The website is so vibrant, like taking over in such a beautiful way.”

Chloe emphasizes the dynamic nature of digital media, highlighting the fusion of traditional print with modern multimedia elements.

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3. Personal Fashion Journey and Parenting Perspectives

Timestamp: [13:23 – 22:52]

Kristin and Chloe delve into their personal relationships with fashion, influenced by their upbringing and parenting styles. Chloe reflects on her mother Candice Bergen’s understated yet impactful fashion sense, contrasting it with societal pressures on women to conform to certain styles.

Notable Quotes:

• Chloe Mal [12:14]: “She was always on best dressed lists.”
• Kristin Davis [19:56]: “I struggle. Am I being too controlling?”

Both hosts discuss the challenges of navigating fashion choices for their children, balancing self-expression with appropriate styling.

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4. Reflections on 'Sex and the City' Fashion

Timestamp: [22:52 – 39:33]

The conversation shifts to the iconic fashion of Sex and the City. Chloe reminisces about memorable outfits, such as Carrie's Vivienne Westwood pinstriped skirt suit and the influential baguette handbags. They discuss the meticulous effort behind costume design, including sourcing vintage pieces and managing wardrobe logistics on set.

Notable Quotes:

• Chloe Mal [38:11]: “I was working at Vogue offices at 4 Times Square.”
• Kristin Davis [39:04]: “The Vogue closet is a very controlled space.”

Kristin shares behind-the-scenes anecdotes, including interactions with designers like Manolo Blahnik and the strategic use of accessories to enhance character portrayals.

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5. The Influence of 'Sex and the City' on Real Fashion

Timestamp: [39:33 – 53:27]

Chloe and Kristin explore how Sex and the City influenced real-world fashion trends. They discuss the show’s role in elevating certain brands and designs, making high fashion accessible to a broader audience through strategic product placements and character-driven style choices.

Notable Quotes:

• Kristin Davis [45:53]: “Everything stayed intact. We made it through with maybe a few drinks spilled on the outfit.”
• Chloe Mal [52:49]: “I work in the news business, so it's… can be quite stressful.”

They highlight specific fashion moments from the show, such as the iconic Dior by Galliano dress, and its resurgence in modern media, illustrating the lasting impact of the show’s wardrobe.

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6. Anecdotes and Behind-the-Scenes Stories

Timestamp: [53:27 – 71:57]

The hosts share humorous and insightful stories from the set of Sex and the City. Chloe recounts her first visit to a shoot at the Vogue offices, while Kristin reflects on costume mishaps and the creative process behind memorable outfits. They discuss the meticulous planning involved in maintaining consistency in character styles and the collaborative efforts between actors, designers, and costume departments.

Notable Quotes:

• Kristin Davis [60:03]: “We made it through with maybe a few drinks spilled on the outfit.”
• Chloe Mal [67:46]: “Something I did love, but I'm not sure I would have thought of that without that.”

Chloe also touches on the challenges of blending fashion with narrative storytelling, ensuring that costumes enhance rather than overshadow the plot.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: [71:55 – End]

As the episode wraps up, Kristin and Chloe express their appreciation for the collaborative spirit that made both Sex and the City and Vogue’s fashion storytelling successful. They highlight the importance of authenticity and creativity in fashion, both on-screen and in the real world.

Notable Quote:

• Kristin Davis [71:54]: “You have been such a joy, Chloe.”

Kristin emphasizes the episode’s theme of connecting past and present fashion narratives, encouraging listeners to appreciate the artistry behind iconic styles.

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Highlights:

• Fashion and Media Intersection: Exploration of how Sex and the City reshaped conversations around women and fashion.
• Behind-the-Scenes Insights: Personal anecdotes from filming and costume design processes.
• Contemporary Fashion Challenges: Balancing self-expression with societal expectations in parenting.
• Legacy and Influence: The show's enduring impact on real-world fashion trends and brand collaborations.

Key Takeaways:

• Sex and the City played a pivotal role in bringing high fashion into mainstream conversations.
• Personal and professional experiences shape individual perspectives on fashion.
• The bridge between traditional print media and digital platforms enriches the fashion narrative.

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Notable Quotes:

• Chloe Mal [22:52]: “We talk about this a lot here. And the rise of skinny talk, which I think is so toxic and terrible.”
• Kristin Davis [50:30]: “It's a very stressful thing as a mom because I’ve had some conversations with my daughter about this.”

This episode offers a rich, behind-the-scenes look into the world of Sex and the City, fashion journalism, and the personal experiences that shape our understanding of style and media.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

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[Kristen Davis]

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[Kristen Davis]

Davis and I want to know are you a Charlotte? Guess what? We have Chloe Mal. I am so excited because Chloe is connected to the show in so many different ways.

[Chloe Mal]

It's true.

[Kristen Davis]

You are basically a second generation member of the family.

[Chloe Mal]

It's true. I'm a SATC nepo baby.

[Kristen Davis]

You are. We've coined a phrase. I love it. We've coined a phrase. She's an SATC nepo baby. I love it. And secondarily to that or in front of that I guess she is the editor of Vogue.com and she has an incredible podcast the run through with Vogue and I mean it's just a joy in so many different ways. I literally have the longest list of questions for you.

[Chloe Mal]

I'm so excited. It's very fun to be on the other side of the mic in this Is It.

[Kristen Davis]

Do people ask you to be on a lot of podcasts?

[Chloe Mal]

No, I'm usually the one talking to other people.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it. It's a joy. I have had so many. I love doing my podcast because of course I love our show and it's been super fascinating and I love to have on our cast members and writers and everybody but also other people like yourself and it makes me understand being a guest so much better. Yeah, like really? I'm like light bulb moment. Like you know, let's have fun.

[Chloe Mal]

Basically, it's like in film school, the first year of film school, they make students do every possible role on a film set so that you know what you're dealing with, even if you.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly like that. Yes, yes.

[Chloe Mal]

So today I'm the grip, tomorrow I love it.

[Kristen Davis]

You're not the grip. Today you are the actor, I would say.

[Chloe Mal]

Sure.

[Kristen Davis]

But you have a lot of technical expertise, so you're like a really well trained actor. I think maybe.

[Chloe Mal]

There you go.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay, so Chloe is the child of Candice Bergen, a beloved actress and friend of the brand, as we say. And Kandy is just such a joy in so many ways as obviously, you know, she is your mother, which is incredible to even think about. And your father is Louis Mal, who, if you don't know, please look him up. He is a legendary film director of like foundational memories for all of us in my generation at least, and hopefully everyone else's as well. So that's just brief summary. So I just wanna go back for a second. For anyone listening, our showrunner Michael Patrick King has a very long history with your mom, which is how your mom came to play Enid, the editor of Vog in the Sex and the City World.

[Chloe Mal]

I think Michael Patrick King wrote on Murphy Brown.

[Kristen Davis]

That's right. He won an Emmy for writing on Murphy Brown, his first, which is so amazing to think about. And from his description of it, your mom was really his champion. I think he came in just as one of many, many writers. Cause in the heyday of sitcoms, which that was definitely in the heyday, you know, you might have 15 writers, something like this. And she really was like that guy, that young guy, that standup, he, him, you know, so he really rose within the ranks of Murphy Brown, which was a very incredible, you know, much lauded, incredibly viewed sitcom of the 90s, I guess. 80s 90s.

[Chloe Mal]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

Is that right? So then she comes, we start our show for the beginning, she didn't come on for a while. And then when she did come on, she came on to play Enid, the editor of Vogue. And she has now played Enid through the first series, the film, the first film for sure, I want to say. And then she's also come on and dressed like that, which is to us just incredible and a miracle. And then for myself, I was in a play on Broadway called the Best Man.

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, yes, of course. I mean, it was so, such an amazing cast, right?

[Kristen Davis]

James Earl Jones.

[Chloe Mal]

James Earl Jones, Angela Lansbury, John Larquette. I mean, it was a real crowd.

[Kristen Davis]

It was A joy in so many ways. And your mom was there. I was literally dying of nerves. I was like the second cast, right? So when we came, I mean, I was just like, could hardly function basically from nerves. And the fact that your mom was there really helped me because she's such a warm, comforting presence. And she was like, Kristen. I was like, oh, I can't do you. I'm so scared. So she was really. She was really joy. And Angela also, she used to call me Starshine.

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, cute.

[Kristen Davis]

I know. She'd say, good morning, Starshine. I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna die of happiness. Yeah, it was incredible. And then your mom. Your mom had finished with the run, and we were like, please don't leave. But it was a great, great thing. So I love your mom in so many ways. So, so, so many ways. And I love that you have landed in this incredible fashion world and position. How did it happen?

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, Well, I mean, 100%. This is. I mean, there were a couple of, like, little news bits when I got this most recent job, and they're like, well, and remember Candice Bergen played a Vogue editor. And I was like, it's not funny by accident completely. I mean, I'm 100%. My connections to people in the publishing and media industry got me into the door, no question. And I think about that a lot when sort of friends, kids write to me. I also want to respond to random people from college who have just graduated from my college and want to write to me. I really want to reply to people who don't have a connection because for me, it was absolutely, because I had connections to Vogue that I got interviews here in the first place. And that was 15 years ago, that was 2011. And I was writing at the New York observer and the Times at the Times. And I came into interview for an editor job at Vogue, which was at the time editing the front of the magazine section called Flash, which was sort of the fluffy, exciting events, glittery part of the magazine. It was the weddings, it girls, parties, et cetera. And that was really fun and a great way to sharpen my teeth in magazine editing. After five years of doing that, I then went freelance for a while. And then about a year and a half ago, I came on to take this role as editor of the website because my podcast co host, Choma Nadi, went moved to London to become editor of British Vogue and she had been editor of the podcast. So we did a little musical chairs.

[Kristen Davis]

Amazing. And to me, as a, you know, lover of Vogue, I feel like the website. And I guess this is true for most magazines, you know, because publishing itself, like paper, old fashioned publishing is kind of having, you know, it's. It struggles these days. But now I feel like the website is so, so vibrant, like taking over in such a beautiful way, so.

[Chloe Mal]

Well, that's nice to hear. Thank you.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, I feel that. I really feel that, like the once, the kind of, you know, for me, I remember when Olivia Wilde did a cover, this was a few years back, and there was a beautiful video that went with it where you could really only put that on the website. You know, it wasn't something that would have had a place to live in its entirety. And it was gorgeous. And it really brought it all to life in a way that, I mean, yes, a photo shoot is fascinating. And looking at a page, I love still, of course, because I am old, but I also love the moving image. So it's kind of the union of both.

[Chloe Mal]

It's exciting to experiment with mixing different types of media that supplement the original print form rather than replace it.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Chloe Mal]

It makes it part of a bigger, more holistic product.

[Kristen Davis]

Absolutely, absolutely. But what about your love of fashion? Because your mom was an incredible fashion icon. I mean, did you grow up surrounded by her closet and loving her fashion or did you not care? Like, how. Where were you?

[Chloe Mal]

She is very dismissive of her love of fashion.

[Kevin McHale]

Ooh.

[Chloe Mal]

She does not want to be. She's someone who cares about what she wears and likes clothes, but she doesn't. I don't think she would ever describe herself as a fashion person, but she was always on best dressed lists. And I remember once I asked her if she was a hippie because we were talking about how she protested Vietnam and she said, I was a well dressed hippie.

[Kristen Davis]

I love that so much. I love that so much. And that's absolutely true. I mean, you do get the sense that she was this just incredibly beautiful young woman who kind of just fell into kind of her early days modeling. It wasn't something that she wanted to do. It just seemed like people saw her and just wanted to photograph her.

[Chloe Mal]

Yes, I think that. And she's written about this too, but I think that part came very easily. And what was more difficult was getting people to take her seriously for other pursuits like photography or writing. And I was thinking about that. Cause I just watched Mariska Hargitay's documentary about her mother. My mom Jane and Jayne Mansfield had a similar. I think that happened and still happens to a lot of women who are very beautiful, where it is hard for them to be taken seriously for anything beyond superficial attributes. So that definitely. I think that's probably part of why she never leaned into loving fashion as much as. I don't know that she loves fashion, but she loves her own style. And I think she loves wearing things that make her happy and bring her joy.

[Kristen Davis]

Absolutely.

[Chloe Mal]

She's not a vain person at all. And so she's very interested in joyful, sort of goofy things. And it doesn't have to be something that's necessarily the most flattering or the chicest. It's more about dressing for herself, which I respect.

[Kristen Davis]

I respect that so much. And Sarah Jessica is like this as well. You know, people think that she is gonna have this incredible closet at her house. She does not. Everything's in, you know, storage cataloged, which is incredible, of course. But, you know, she has, like, three things that she wears on repeat, and they're quirky because she's trying to create, you know, an expression of herself. She's. She's interested in that more so than, you know, the trends or fitting in or having the newest thing or whatever it is. And that, I think, is so strange for people, obviously, who've grown up watching her as Carrie, because they think she is going to be Carrie and she's not. But I also think it's true for anyone who achieves that status of being an IT girl or, you know, in whatever era, you're kind of pigeonholed in that. In that kind of moment of time in a weird, weird way. But I'm still interested in you, Chloe. So I know your mom. So no matter whether she wants to say that she's into fashion or not, I know she has incredible things. So I just want to know when you were growing up, because I have a child, right? I have two children, a boy and a girl. And I'm always curious. 7 and 13. I'm always curious. My. My daughter. 13 year olds at this time. It is fascinating, right? I mean, so fascinating. And she really doesn't like most of my stuff. But every once in a while, she'll go like, oh, you know, like, light bulb goes off on her. Oh, I might want that. And I'm always, like, really flattered because they're very picky. Very, very picky. Very, very picky. Tweens, right? Tweens, teens. But, like, what? You know, you were surrounded by these beautiful things. Did you think, oh, gosh, I love these beautiful things. I understand them. I want to understand them. I want to wear them. How.

[Chloe Mal]

What was your relationship Thinking back now, I mean, I have a three year old daughter who every time she gets dressed or undressed, it's like an operatic complete tantrum and it's completely exhausting. But I do think about how much I respect how my mom let me wear whatever I wanted as a teenager. And I wore some deranged outfits.

[Kristen Davis]

I mean, wait, what year was this? What year was this?

[Chloe Mal]

This was, I would say when I was like 14, 15. So 99, 2000. Got it. I was still living in LA. I used to go. There was a great vintage store on Ventura called Iguana Vintage. I would go there and get like orange suede cowboy boots. There was like a belt that had a huge clock face on it. I mean, really, truly hideous things.

[Kristen Davis]

I love it.

[Chloe Mal]

And she was just always just was like, okay, whatever. I also like to make a lot, like sort of craft a lot of my things. I would paint on my corduroys, I would, you know, cut up a David Bowie T shirt and make it into a tube top, which I wore in New York City. I mean.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh my gosh. Well, that's very. Come on. That's very in. My daughter would be way into that if I were to allow her to wear such a thing.

[Chloe Mal]

And she, I mean, she really let me live that truth for myself.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow, wow, wow. When you look at fashion now, because now these things are coming back in weird ways. Like some of them are coming back and some of them aren't coming back. I'm very confused personally, because I already lived it right as an adult. Like there are pictures of us in these things. And so now I'm confused about what I can wear or should wear. You know what I'm saying? How do you look at the kind of comeback of the 90s vibe?

[Chloe Mal]

I never had a sort of either a, like a indie sleaze or a grunge or a minimalist period. I was always very. Wore a lot of colorful vintage things. So that those moments that are coming back into cultural parlance today are not as triggering for me. I will say that there was a moment, I think I was 16 or 17, my mom and I were going to Barney's New York together.

[Kristen Davis]

I miss it so much.

[Chloe Mal]

I know. I miss it so much. There was a paparazzi photo taken of the two of us and my mom looked great. She was in her uniform of like slacks and a button down and some turquoise earrings. And I was wearing like sort of vomit colored corduroys and welly boots that were frogs.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow.

[Chloe Mal]

Because I had those as a kid. And then I got them again as a grownup. And now J.W. anderson makes the frog wellies for grownups that are like $700. I'm like, you know what? Maybe that outfit wasn't as bad as I thought it was.

[Kristen Davis]

See, it does all come back around. It does.

[Chloe Mal]

Because seeing that photo, I was like, oh, maybe I don't look as cool as I think I look.

[Kristen Davis]

I mean, I feel that way anytime I see a paparazzi picture. You know what I'm saying? Like, you never feel happy, I don't think. I mean, I don't know who does. But I also think that. I mean, I know at the time, I remember just desperately trying to wear these things because I felt like I should. And, you know, if I went on a photo shoot, all they would have would be low slung jeans where you weren't really supposed to have hips or a rear end or anything like that. And I would just be sweating bullets trying to fit myself in there. And I have. There's some pictures of me existing out there where I'm just like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm wearing that out in the world. Like, my abdomen is showing and stuff. I mean, oh, my Lord. But, you know, that's what we did. I don't know. We were young, we didn't think that hard about it. And you kind of felt like it was just gonna go away, but it doesn't. It's back already. Why is it so short now?

[Chloe Mal]

Low jeans don't need to come back for me.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Chloe Mal]

I respect those who are passionate about them.

[Kristen Davis]

Really? Really. I mean, my feeling is just. No. Like, I do not want my daughter wearing that. Well, that's true. Mm. I have to draw the line. Cause she. I can't get her out of the crop. Right. And she's very tall. So if we've got the crop and then we've got the low, it's a lot.

[Chloe Mal]

It's too much, right? Okay.

[Kristen Davis]

Thank you. I feel better now. I feel better. Cause I do struggle. Like, am I being too controlling? I'm not sure.

[Chloe Mal]

I also think, though, that sometimes kids don't realize the suggestions of things they wear. I have such a specific memory of. There was a brand of T shirts that they sold at Fred Siegel Jet, Jon Ashia tees that were everywhere when I was, like, 13. And it was the cool thing to get and to wear. And they had sort of cheeky things written on them. And everyone wanted to get one that said open 24 hours. And we didn't get It. We were just like, this is funny. It's like a diner. And the moms lost their minds. And it was. It. It sort of needed that maternal gut check to be like, no, no, ladies, this is not a coffee shop. This is your vagina.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. It's a very stressful thing as a mom because, like, I've had some conversations with my daughter about this. Not. Not. She doesn't wear anything like that so far, thank goodness. But, you know, just like a general conversation. Like, I went to the Paris, you know, Tour de Not. What's it called? Roland Garros. You know, the Paris Open. It has a name.

[Chloe Mal]

The French Open.

[Kristen Davis]

Thank you so much. The French Open. I went there. I've been before. And they have this very elaborate, like, collab store where it's, you know, Lacoste, who sponsors it, and then also Wilson, and my youngest, my son is named Wilson. So I'm in there. I know, right? I'm like, this is so exciting. And, you know, we were there because hbo, Max, whatever we're supposed to say these days, was airing tennis. So we're there, and I'm shopping for the kids. And there were these really cute, kind of vintage shorts that had a W on them, but they didn't really have his size. They had Gemma's size, my daughter. So I thought, oh, I'm gonna get these. Cause they have her brother's name on them. I didn't really realize they were, like, kind of short in a vintage kind of a way. Right. She's all leg, you know? And, I mean, she looks incredible. Everyone compliments her. I'm just dying. You know, people tell her, you should be a model. I'm just like, wanna fall through the planet earth. You know what I'm saying? I'm just dying. I. So I get them for her, then I can't tell them that she can't wear them, because I'm like, oh, my gosh, I bought them. But then. So then I was like, okay, so we can't wear a crop top with them. But then I feel like I'm, like, so controlling. And then she says, but why not? I wanna feel free. I wanna feel good. And I wanna say, yes, you can feel good and you can feel free. Just only in the house. Do you know what I mean?

[Chloe Mal]

It's very tricky.

[Kristen Davis]

It is, right?

[Chloe Mal]

And I think it's much trickier now than it was 20 years ago, because we want to be much more. We want to endorse our children's confidence and positivity and make them feel Good. But it's hard to navigate that.

[Kristen Davis]

It is. I find it really stressful. And I'm also so curious about people in fashion and how they look at it, because I also know there's a huge variety of how people parent, you know what I'm saying? And sometimes, I mean, like, when we were gonna talk to you and you sent your favorite outfits, which we will get to from the show, you know, it made me start thinking about, like, there were things in the show because I grew up in the south where, you know, there was a look, but it was, you know, like, I'm pretty sure I had some wide whale corduroys that had frogs embroidered on them. You know what I'm saying? Like, we were that level, you know, at one point. My parents, not so much. But I wanted to fit in at school and be, like, super preppy, which meant all kinds of relatively unflattering things, you know what I'm saying? But they were in, so who cares when you're a teen, right?

[Chloe Mal]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

And I mean, then I went to college in New Jersey at Rutgers, and they were just like, what are you wearing? Like, you know, girl, like, come on. And then they took me to vintage stores, which was definitely an expansive, wonderful thing. And I wore oversized jackets because it was the time of Madonna with our, you know, tights. Right. And I don't think I really had pearls, but, you know, we were like, you know, I've been through many phases, right? This is what it means to be alive this long. But our own view of fashion, you know, it changes so much. And I remember when we started doing the show, I just really wanted to look like I fit in because I didn't have this, like, fantastic New York background that Sarajeska and Cynthia had. I had been an out of work actress in New York for a few years before I moved to la. But that's a very different existence than the characters we were playing, you know, and we didn't have hardly a budget at all. When I had Molly Price, our costume designer on, she told me we had $10,000 for the entire first.

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, my God.

[Kristen Davis]

Can you believe that?

[Chloe Mal]

Wild.

[Kristen Davis]

I know. And we hadn't been on the air yet, so no one was lending us because they didn't know what we were doing. You know, wasn't there some great story.

[Chloe Mal]

About the first baguette that, like, Patricia found it somewhere or something? Because the idea that what. What Texas City did for the baguette, I know any brand should be so lucky. And the idea that beg, borrowed and stolen Was is fantastic.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true. That was. So Sarah Jessica already had a lot of her relationships because she had been an it girl. She tells me that I'm wrong when I say this, right? I'm like, no, no, I'm sorry, I have to correct you. I am correct. You are an it girl. She already had a collection of Manolos, like a couple hundred pairs or something. And I remember because I was like, you know, like so impressed, right? And she tells a great story of being in LA working, and Manolo himself was here at the only store which I believe was on the Sunset Strip at the time. And she met him, like on a rainy day. No one was. He was doing like a, you know, showroom type of a, you know, trunk show. And she was there and he made, he. He made shoes for her just because she was a customer, not because she was an actress where she got to pick the fabric and pick the heel and, you know, all those things. Then she ends up shipping them back to New York in a FedEx and it gets lost. I know the pain, the pain. So that was years before we did the show, right? So she had already started cultivating these relationships because she has incredible taste, just naturally, you know, and she appreciates well made things and the kind of the craftsmanship of all of it. So she already, when we did the show, there's. In the first season, she wears the naked dress, which was Donna Karan, I think, and that was her own dress that she had worn to an event. So she already. She just went to her closet and got it out because we didn't have money to get. To get amazing things. And no designers knew. Knew about us yet, right? So only from her contacts did they know. So she could occasionally say, oh, I'll call and try to borrow something. And I remember as myself going like, wow, that is amazing. And it was very clear. She would always say, like, we have to return it. If they send something to us, we have to take such good care of it and we have to return it. And we'd all be like, okay, okay, okay. You know, like trying to be just the best, the best girls, you know what I'm saying? And return everything pristine so that they would lend again because the show really needed it. Right? Which, you know, I think in some ways was great training because she already had been through it and could. Could be an example to us of how to make those relationships. Like in the olden days, we would go to Fashion Week, which it wasn't everyone and their brother, like, it is Now, Right. Would just be us. And I remember spending a whole day just going from like this show to that show to this show to that show. And it was so exciting. Cause it was, you know, back. Back, you know, when it was at Bryant park and it was amazing. And you were just trying to be there for the designers so that maybe when you called them and asked for something, they might send it. Right. Like trying to make a relationship.

[Chloe Mal]

And did it work?

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, it worked great because the show was on at that point. Right, right. So, yes, it works really well. But also, like, for me, it was finding people that fit Charlotte's style and that fit my body because we were asking for sample sizes.

[Chloe Mal]

Right.

[Kristen Davis]

Which of course created its own stress.

[Chloe Mal]

Sure.

[Kristen Davis]

Sample sizes are not easy. And in the 2000s, back how I started a while ago, this is my problem. On the podcast, I ramble. I would go to photo shoots and they would have literally just like white jeans, low slung white jeans. And I would just be trying to get them on, and I couldn't get them on. And I'd just be like, you guys, could you possibly get an A line skirt like anything? And I would feel so bad, you know, it's terrible. It was very stressful. It was very stressful. The 90s, the late 90s, when we started the show, it was really hard because there. There was just like the look, you know, there wasn't a lot of variety. You know what I'm saying?

[Chloe Mal]

Yeah, of course.

[Kristen Davis]

And now I feel like it's much better. I don't feel like it's over. I think there is still, you know, a lot of pressure to be thin in the modeling world. For sure.

[Chloe Mal]

We talk about this a lot here. And the rise of skinny talk, which I think is so toxic and terrible. And I mean, GLP1s have completely changed the conversation around body positivity. I think a lot of people in fashion are skinnier than they've ever been. I agree. And it's startling. And it means that it's self perpetuating because then the samples are smaller, then the models stay small, and it's hard to overcome that.

[Kristen Davis]

It's so true. And I think it's also, you know what people. I think sometimes people don't realize how hard it is as an actress to get the designers to dress you because they want to send you the sample sizes, because they can't make everything in your size. Right. They just don't have the capacity to make like a. One of a kind that they haven't made for the stores. And Obviously, you're trying to wear it before it's in the stores. It's like a whole kind of, like, domino effect of the way the fashion world works that you don't really know about until you get into it. But, like, just to get to borrow the clothes, you have to. To fit into them.

[Chloe Mal]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

And it's not easy. And depending on the designer. That's why it was so important for me to find, like, the Oscar de la Renta samples. Fit me. Thank God. Thank God. And the Ralph Lauren. Thank God. Because that was very Charlotte. So it worked out. But, you know, those were relationships where once I figured that out, I had to really cultivate those. And thank goodness, they were very kind to us. And they still are. But back to the baguette. Cause I haven't answered you yet. I asked Sarah Jessica, when did it begin that we could borrow the things from the people, the designer things. And the baguette was, like, the first thing.

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, interesting.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. So she, I believe, had a relationship, had bought one or maybe more. So she already loved it. That, you know, she was very. She would do her research. Right. So, like, she wouldn't just casually, necessarily wear something. Right. Unless it was vintage, in which case she would casually wear it. But in terms of the current fashion trends at the time. And now also, she would really study, like, you know, do I love it? Would I carry it? Is it functional? All of her different things. And the baguette was already something that she loved. And so maybe she brought her own one time. And then we started that relationship. And they would send her possibly 30 at a time. Like, I just remember being like. And they were so beautiful. Hand beaded, like, sequin beading, painting, velvet, everything you could imagine. And I also remember that we would have these coffee table scenes and or restaurant scenes before we had the coffee shop built. And it would always be a struggle, like, where are we gonna put the bags? Because you couldn't always hang your bag. And true New Yorkers don't really hang their bag on the back of the chair. This was much discussed amongst us because me being a Southerner, I hang my bag on the back of the chair. And they'd always be like, kristen, no. And I'd be like, okay, okay. So then you're like, where do I put it? Where do I put it? And for Sarah Jessica, she wanted people to see this beautiful, beautiful baguette, because what if she wasn't also in a Walk and talk? So we have done scenes where the baguette is where the plate should you know what I mean? And she would just make it work. It's true.

[Chloe Mal]

I do kind of sort of can visualize that. Right, but that works for Carrie.

[Kristen Davis]

It totally works. And she would make it work.

[Chloe Mal]

Miranda would never. But it works for Carrie.

[Kristen Davis]

No, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. And that was how that relationship began. And I feel like that was the beginning of people realizing that we could and wanted to, you know, have brands on and feature them and do justice to them and wear them, you know, beautifully, hopefully, and all of that, which really changed the show, you know, because we could never, never have afforded all that stuff. Not even now, you know, on. And just like that, I mean, we're still begging people regularly.

[Chloe Mal]

Baguette beggars.

[Kristen Davis]

Baguette beggars. And, or any, any, literally anything else.

[Chloe Mal]

I always think of the scene when Carrie goes to LA and tries to buy a fake baguette and then the guy takes her in the back and opens up like his trunk and it's just all these fake baguettes in plastic wrap and she just recoils in horror and she's like, I can't see them like this. And sort of backtracks and is like, I can't do it.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh my God. And how wonderful, because that's still such an issue.

[Chloe Mal]

Totally. And I also think of that scene whenever I walk by the, the vendors on fifth, like selling like 40 Goyard bags in like old plastic. It's like, really ruins the magic.

[Kristen Davis]

It really does. But I mean, yeah, it's an interesting thing. It's an interesting thing. Like, like, you know, it is, obviously. I mean, we could go down a whole rabbit hole of, you know, child labor and whatnot. But I mean, it's, it's a, it's, it's a problem. But I also kind of understand because I feel like with social media, this whole kind of, you know, like feeling the need to have all the things like the Hermes and the, you know, it's gotten so intense.

[Chloe Mal]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

It's kind of scary. So I get that people would want to get one however way that they could.

[Chloe Mal]

What's the thing that all the 13 year olds want right now? Like, when I was 13, going to bat mitzvahs, it was a Kate Spade purse. Like, what is the thing?

[Kristen Davis]

That's adorable. You know, my daughter, luckily, is not so much into that, which is probably why I was asking you. I mean, the look here in LA is largely, you know, really baggy pants. Some of them a little lower than I would like, but still baggy which is good. And like crop top and like jerseys, you know, like that are tied up. And sometimes they do cut things still, which I did as a youth as well. I think that's like evergreen. And then I can't. I mean, there. I think at 13, the big fascination is will your mom let you wear heels?

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, interesting. That's so interesting you say that because a few weeks ago I went to have dinner with my mom at the Cherry Netherland and I walked in and there was like a line of 12 and 13 year olds waiting to go down to Doubles Club, which is like this subterranean, like very WASP y club in the Sherry Netherland. But it is known for becoming the location for boys schools and girls schools have their dances there.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow.

[Chloe Mal]

And so these girls were all waiting to go in. And the look for all of them, it was a exact uniform was tube top or tank top, miniskirt, this short and like high Air Jordans. It was all sneakers. It was all sneakers and miniskirts. And so I was like, oh, I guess they don't want heels anymore. Cause that was when I was that age. It was very much the bar mitzvah circuit. And it was like, how high a heel can you wear?

[Kristen Davis]

Right. Right. I think it's both. I mean, I wonder if that's a New York City thing, because they had to maybe potentially walk somewhere. I don't know, maybe not.

[Chloe Mal]

Maybe they took it over.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. Because my daughter definitely wears her high Air Jordans and. Or her high Converse with dresses. That's it. There's no debate. But she's very tall, as I said. And I have absolutely said, I'm so sorry, you cannot wear heels because my entire, you know, ankles are pretty much ruined. So I'm not wanting her at 13 to start down that road, you know, she is.

[Chloe Mal]

She has a few years.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, give her a few years for sure. But there are some. Some smaller girls who are her friends who do have. I think that Kate Spade is still very desired.

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, that's nice to hear.

[Kristen Davis]

Like a little Kate Spade heel. You know what I'm saying? Like kind of a cute Kate Spade heel. But yes, the miniskirt and the tube top and. Or tank. It's a situation, you know, It's. It's a situation. Yeah, it's a no at my house. Right. At least not at the same time. Right. So that's what I'm really trying to focus on. But okay, let's talk about. I can't even decide which thing to talk to you about, but I Do want to talk a little bit more about the show and fashion and your relationship to the show and fashion? Like, when did you start watching the show? Did you know your mom was on the show? When did you pay attention fashion wise? In what order did those things happen?

[Chloe Mal]

Good question. When I started watching the show. I don't remember. When did the show air?

[Kristen Davis]

We started in 98.

[Chloe Mal]

Okay. So I think I started watching it a few years later in like 2000, when I would have been 15.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it.

[Chloe Mal]

And what did I respond to the most when I first started watching it, fashion wise? I think even at 15 and living in Los Angeles, I was captivated by the things Carrie wore, but absolutely found them to be ludicrous and not realistic. I was like a very unfun, pragmatic 15 year old. And I was like, this is ridiculous. She can't wear this. She can't wear this tiny. You know, whatever. But I loved it and I found it delightful. I do have a very specific memory of watching the finale of Sex and the City. I had some girlfriends over to my stepfather's apartment in New York, and we were all watching it together. And my stepfather was sort of mystified and took our Goldendoodle Jerry for a walk and walked up past the restaurant we used to go to every Sunday night, Vico. And he was like, oh, we couldn't come tonight because the girls are watching some show and the owner, Vico, is like, everybody inside watching this show. No one comes tonight. Like, it was like the super bowl was the same.

[Kristen Davis]

That's adorable.

[Chloe Mal]

There really were. You know, I do miss those sort of cultural moments of that streaming has taken away a little bit. You know, there are shows that have a weekly rollout and just like that. But I do miss that group anticipation around a viewing moment. And I do have a very specific memory of going to the shoot day. That was at the Vogue offices at 4 Times Square.

[Kristen Davis]

How great.

[Chloe Mal]

Which is very funny, because then.

[Kristen Davis]

10.

[Chloe Mal]

15 years later, I was working there and I just remember the row of desks along the wall where the fashion department used to sit. And I loved Carrie's outfit. I always loved Carrie's use of brooches. I thought, Carrie.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, they love the brooches.

[Chloe Mal]

Great brooch work from Carrie.

[Kristen Davis]

Totally. They're still up to that brooch work.

[Chloe Mal]

And in the Vogue idea episode, when she goes to meet with Enid, she is wearing this amazing. I think it's a Vivienne Westwood.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes, yes.

[Chloe Mal]

Pinstriped skirt suit.

[Kristen Davis]

Gorgeous.

[Chloe Mal]

With a cameo brooch. And she looks fantastic. And that is a real dream outfit for me. Yep, exactly.

[Kristen Davis]

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[Kristen Davis]

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[Kristen Davis]

When I got married Charlotte myself Whichever got married to Trey. I was supposed to wear this approach that Bunny gave me that we were supposed to think was hideous. And it turned into this whole drama because it was really beautiful. And Pat and Molly. Molly Rogers, who was Pat's assistant the whole time and who is now our costume designer on and just like that. And also currently doing the Devil Wears Prada because I texted her this morning and she was in fitting with Anne Hathaway. So then I had to text Sarah Jessica, but I have an answer to something that you are gonna bring up. But they all love brooches. Molly Southern also, and Sarah Jessica. Again, this is about the craftsmanship, I believe, you know, like to make a brooch the traditional way is an artistry. And she has such appreciation. So I remember that this brooch that I wore, which I was supposed to complain about that Bunny gave me, and I felt this pressure to wear it, et cetera, et cetera. It was gorgeous. And so we had to cut all those lines.

[Chloe Mal]

Oh my gosh.

[Kristen Davis]

You know, And I still have it at home, which. Because it is gorgeous and it is.

[Chloe Mal]

Do you wear it?

[Kristen Davis]

No, I don't. Because when I'm getting dressed, I don't think about, like, how creative can I be. I think, how can I look nice and not call too much attention to myself? Those are my two considerations. Jordan's saying, like, how did you both. But I should get those things out more often. You know, I should. Cause I have them. I mean, maybe one day my daughter will like them. I don't know. Who knows? Who knows? But. Okay, so let's go back to you. So you remember when your mom was doing the show and you went to the set and what were your thoughts? Were you like, wow, this is cool? Like, what'd you think?

[Chloe Mal]

Yes, I thought it was interesting. I thought it was cool. I wanted to be a writer when I was very young, so I was very interested in. I forget. I meant to rewatch the episode, but I forget how much Carrie is paid. I think it's $4 a word.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, I have it written down here somewhere. Is it 450 a word? It's $4 and she gets it up to 450 a word. Yes. What. What did you think of that? How realistic is it?

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, it's by word. Interesting. I'm learning things, right also now. Laughable. $4 a word.

[Kristen Davis]

But what do you mean?

[Chloe Mal]

It's just most people are making $2 or less a word, I would say, at this point. And that's for print, for web. It's much less than that. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

That's so sad. But this is what I don't understand. I knew that there was a per word. You know, traditionally this is how writers were paid for magazines and whatnot. But are you, Is there also like a salary?

[Chloe Mal]

No.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, but what about like benefits?

[Chloe Mal]

Well, if you're a freelance writer, you're not getting benefits, but like one like.

[Kristen Davis]

In your previous incarnation when you were doing the weddings and the it girl and the whatnot.

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, then I didn't. Then I did not get paid any per word. I was just had a salary.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay, but did you get benefits?

[Chloe Mal]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Chloe Mal]

Yeah, yeah. No, if you're. There's staff, then there's no per word.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it? Got it.

[Chloe Mal]

Then you're just on staff and you're writing whatever you're told to.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it.

[Chloe Mal]

But if you're a freelancer and you're being paid per word like Carrie was, I mean, people back in the day used to make a lot per word. You know, Michael Lewis apparently would make $10 a word at Vanity Fair. Plum Sykes used to make $6 a word at Vogue.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow. Plum Sykes was in our movie.

[Chloe Mal]

Yes, I remember that. I love that scene. I have to say. I rewatched that on a plane a year or two ago and it was such a delight because it really was a very accurate representation of a Vogue shoot. No way to have Patrick and Andre and Plum, like it really was very much what really goes on. And you don't see that depicted that often.

[Kristen Davis]

That's so true. I mean, we knew all of them separately just from the world. And I was one time in Aspen. We used to do the car. The HBO Comedy festival was in Aspen every year. And Andre was there for some reason, which was fantastic. And we went on a horse drawn sleigh ride together up the mountain in this crazy snowstorm. And of course he had his fur hat on and his fur and you know, he was just so much fun. Dr. Zhivago. Such a delight. Exactly. Dr. Zhivago. Because Andre lived big, you know, it was like he created his own atmosphere that he desired. He was such a joy and so kind. So kind. And that day that we filmed, because Willy and I, I believe, are in that scene, watching. Right. And I remember that our wardrobes had to be approved by Ms. Wintour.

[Chloe Mal]

She likes to get her hand up in the mix.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly. We were like anything she wants. Anything she wants. She and Michael Patrick worked very closely together. And that's probably why it is accurate. And then I remember When Plum got there, she walked over and she was like, oh, yes, this is fine. And I was like, thank God. Thank God, you guys. I'm okay. I'm okay in my very tight Prada skirt.

[Chloe Mal]

Another scene I remember loving even as a teenager with Enid was when Enid and Carrie run into each other. And at the restaurant. At the restaurant, I forget what happens, but she says something about, like, having it all. And then she. Oh, no, she says, you can't have it all. So I have a boyfriend who, you know, I'm above 14th street, and he has a different girlfriend. Below 14th street, you can't have it all. And then she goes to Carrie's book party and runs into the boyfriend with his other girlfriend because they're in no man's land, right? And I thought that was a great. I remember thinking, it's.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true.

[Chloe Mal]

You can't really have it all. And you do sacrifice things, and it'll be interesting to see what I choose to sacrifice.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, that's interesting. So as a personal point of reference, you thought, oh, this'll be interesting.

[Chloe Mal]

I think it's nice to be reminded. I think I grew up during a period, a sort of post Gloria Steinem, everyone, women can have whatever they want moment. And so I was raised thinking that was the case, and it was helpful to be reminded that mathematically, it just isn't possible.

[Kristen Davis]

I think that's fantastic. Yeah, I think that by the time we made that show, who knows where I was at with that personally. But I also. I grew up with Ms. Magazine on our coffee table. You know, it was very important. But I also was surrounded in the south by a very different reality than what was presented in Ms. Magazine. Right. So I was already in this very, you know, strange, like, what is true? I don't know what is true. I guess you find what you would like to be true and create it or move or whatever it is, which is what I did. But still, I do think there was definitely a pervasive message around. I feel like the 80s, the late 80s, early 90s, of, like, you can have it all. You know, you're gonna be a boss babe, and you're gonna have your babies on your hip. Remember all those magazine shoots where the bottles would have their babies or a baby, a pretend baby, I don't know, on their hip, like it was someone else's baby. Do you remember that? It was a lot. And then occasionally their own baby, and you were just like, wow, that is so impressive. But, I mean, not easy and very rare. You know, and I think by the point that we made that show, we all really knew that because we were doing the show and it was really all consuming in so many ways, and everyone was. Was trying to live their lives at the same time, and it was not easy at all. So I think that's probably why that show got written. But I haven't gotten to that point in rewatching. But I love that you remember it. I love that you remember it, and I love that your mom has been in the role of Enid over the years. It's so great and so fascinating. And sometimes I feel. And I wonder how you feel being over there in the world of the real Vogue. Sometimes I feel like we almost have to sugarcut the harshness of that business. You know, like, sugar coat, I should have said, or undercut, whatever, lessen the. What we're actually saying, which is. It's kind of brutal.

[Chloe Mal]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

Do you feel that?

[Chloe Mal]

Yeah, I mean, I feel like I work in the fashion business, but I also very much feel like I work in the news business. And because I'm doing the website and our news might be Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce went on a dinner date, but it's still news and it's still timely. And those kind of urgent, reactive moments are very. Can be quite stressful and feel like you have to be constantly on and responding. So I do feel like it's not this sort of just the joy of the Vogue closet kind of thing, which doesn't really exist.

[Kristen Davis]

Let's discuss. Let's discuss the Vogue closet, because at one point, wasn't your podcast set in a Vogue closet? Which I was like, I don't think that.

[Chloe Mal]

Well, that actually is the Vogue closet. And they did design it to be a place where we could film interviews, which I thought was a great idea because you have the wall of shoes behind you.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes. Beautiful.

[Chloe Mal]

I say it doesn't really exist in the way that we see it depicted on screen because there's not tons of clothes there that just live there. Clothes are called in for shoots. They are kept, you know, under lock and key. The Manolos actually are kept behind locked doors. And there are shoes that live there permanently. Because often for a shoe, you'll call in clothes, but a stylist will say, oh, but I just need a classic Manolo BB pump to go with it. So they'll unlock the Manolo cabinet and take out the BB pump. But no, I mean, the closet is a very controlled space. That's really a way station between shoot and going Back to wherever they were borrowed from.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it. And someone's keeping track of.

[Chloe Mal]

Oh yes, it's a whole team of women and gentlemen keeping track.

[Kristen Davis]

Do you think like, if you think about the Devil Wears Prada and the, you know, pressure on all of those assistant girls to look a certain way and also to be, you know, beyond excellent at their jobs, how do you, how do you, I mean, I know it was a comedy, obviously I should say that, but how do you think about that in terms of your own experience?

[Chloe Mal]

Well, I will say that I never had the privilege of being Anna's assistant, so I don't have a firsthand experience of that. But I do find, just judging from Anna's two assistants right now, Sammy and Izza, they both look great and have fun with that. You know, Izza is today is wearing a bright red, you know, shirt, dress and she looks fabulous and she has fun with it. So I don't feel that. But the pressure and this stress of having to look a certain way is what's dictating how they're dressing. I also think that things are very different at Vogue now than they were 20 years ago. I do, I mean, I remember When I started 15 years ago, everyone was in high heels all day and now you're hard pressed to find someone wearing heels. It's just a different environment.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, definitely. Condon asked when we went, I was surprised. I think we saw maybe a few people, but definitely there was a sense of, of fun with fashion. There was a whole variety of what people were wearing in the building. Big savings, bold vehicles and the perfect time to make your move. That's what the Hyundai Getaway sales event is all about. And it's happening right now. Whether you're looking to upgrade your daily commute, prep for a summer of road trips or finally make the switch to electric, Hyundai has a lineup that covers every lifestyle, every budget and every kind of driver. Hyundai is rolling out incredible deals on some of the most award winning vehicles like the versatile Kona, the sleek Tucson, the Road Trip ready Santa Fe and the fully loaded family favorite Palisade. Prefer a tech savvy sedan. The Elantra is packed with features and the Sonata is Hyundai's most advanced yet. It's a serious standout. And for those ready to go electric, Hyundai is leading the charge. The all electric Ioniq 5 and Ioniq 6 deliver bold design, ultra fast charging and seriously impressive range. All while qualifying for potential EV incentives depending on your state. But here's the part that really sets Hyundai apart. It's not just about what you drive off the lot, it's what comes with it. Every new Hyundai is backed by America's best warranty, a 10 year 100,000 mile powertrain limited warranty that's industry leading coverage that brings real peace of mind. And with three years or 36,000 miles of limited complimentary maintenance on every new 2025 model, Hyundai keeps delivering long after you've driven off the lot. You're not just buying a car, you're getting value, confidence and a company that truly has your back. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Offers end September 2, 2025 Tired of.

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[Chloe Mal]

Could you like chill for a sec?

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[Kristen Davis]

You got it dude.

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Kevin McHale]

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[Podcast Host]

Hi, I'm Nicole Phelps, global director of Vogue Runway and Vogue Business and host of the Run through podcast. Every Tuesday, join me for the latest fashion news like the shakeups of Balenciaga and Dior and what's trending in Paris and Milan. You'll also hear interviews with top designers from Marc Jacobs and Rick Owens to Daniel Roseberry, Sarah Burton and many more. On Thursdays, Chloe Maul, editor of Vogue.com and Choma Nadi, head of Editorial content at British Vogue, take you behind the scenes at Vogue and share their thoughts on fashion through the lens of culture. You'll hear interviews with some of your favorite stars like Julianne Moore, Pharrell Williams and celebrity stylist Law Roach. Join us to get your fashion and culture news twice a week. Listen to the Run through with Vogue every Tuesday and Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kristen Davis]

First of all, I just want to tell you what I was texting Molly Rogers, our costume designer and Sarah Jessica about is the vintage Chanel.

[Chloe Mal]

Yes, yes. It's a repeat, right?

[Kristen Davis]

It's not. Oh, there's a lot of debate. I know that it looks like it is and there was a lot of confusion online about it, so she wore it this pink version back in the first show, and then this version she wore in, and just like that is purple. So it's not that Sarah Jessica went to her archives and got it out, because I think we were already in the midst of shooting and she didn't have time. I think that Chanel sent it or Molly found it. That was the thing where Molly's fitting Anne Hathaway and I couldn't bother her. She apologizes. But, you know, they. Molly and Dani are our costume designers. They work for six months before we get going, and they go to vintage stores in, you know, England and France and Palm beach and, you know, wherever. Right. And they find all kinds of random things. So I think Molly found it somewhere and remembered the other one, because she remembers everything. So she brought it and she asked her, jessica, will you wear this as a callback? So it was more a callback than an actual rewear. We love it because then online, everybody was like. Cause also, I think it has a logo in a different place on the back.

[Chloe Mal]

Wow. Funny.

[Kristen Davis]

I know. But you know the Sleuths. Exactly. They're on it. Okay. They're on it. So I had to check in with Sarah Jessica, and she said, no, it was the closest we could find.

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, that's so funny.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes. But she didn't go and rummage into her archive. I think sometimes she goes and gets things from her archive in advance. Like, for instance, the Vivienne Westwood wedding dress to wear to the Met Ball when we know that there's a big plot point where she has to get something. I think she got the. Was it. I can't remember. The huge Mille full dress.

[Chloe Mal]

The.

[Kristen Davis]

You know. Yes. She got that.

[Chloe Mal]

New parents.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. Like, if there's something like that, she will go and get it out.

[Chloe Mal]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

But I don't think this Chanel was that. I think this Chanel was Molly up to her tricks and Sarah Jessica going along with it, and it was a joy to see. I enjoyed it. My going out at night outfit was really fun to create.

[Chloe Mal]

Oh, my God, it made me laugh so much.

[Kristen Davis]

Thank you.

[Chloe Mal]

Because I loved you and Harry together, and it took me completely. I really feel for parents trying to go out that this is my vibe right now.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, yeah. And can you imagine, like, also the work pressure, you know, which you probably might feel. I don't know. I sometimes feel the work pressure, though. Not in the way of, like, you're actually selling art after hours. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's a very specific thing. So this was really fun because we knew it was Coming. We were working on it for a while. This was our costume department at its best, where they're mixing and matching pieces. It looks like it's one outfit, but it's totally. Every single piece is a different design. I've got my little tiny Chanel, very impractical, but adorable bag slung across me so that I don't have to put it down. Right. I have the Galliano Margiela corset, which I have.

[Chloe Mal]

Amazing, right?

[Kristen Davis]

I've worn it many times. It is a dream. Okay. Fabulous, right? And we were a little concerned about the cleavage, so at one point, Molly wanted to put some chiffon across the top, and we played with that, but then it kind of messed with the silhouette, so we took it off and kept it pure. I've got an Acris skirt on. I have. Oh, do you know Brioni jeweler? She sent me that. Beautiful. It's like her rosette necklace to die for. And then we needed a little short bolero, so Christian Siriano made me a little short bolero, and Molly went and picked the fabric, which was perfect. So sweet. Yeah. And it was such a creation. And I had to wear it through so many different scenes. And we would, you know, take the jacket off.

[Chloe Mal]

Ugh.

[Kristen Davis]

Do you know? And then I have to walk out in the morning and, you know, smear my eye makeup and everything. But it was a good time, and everything stayed intact. I was slightly worried that something was gonna happen to that very expensive necklace in that dance sequence, but it did not. We made it through with maybe a few drinks spilled on the outfit, but that nothing we couldn't fix. Right. Okay, so then this is the most interesting thing. You sent your favorite outfits from the first show. And no one in my life has ever sent me so many of Charlotte's lingerie looks.

[Chloe Mal]

I love Charlotte's 90s. I have such specific memories of being like, oh, I guess you can wear pretty things to bed.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, that's nice.

[Chloe Mal]

Because I like button down. Like, I like, like what I Love Lucy. What Lucille and Lucy and Desi would wear to bed.

[Kristen Davis]

Me too. Yes, me too. I wish Charlotte really took what Charlotte wears. Yeah, totally. Totally. I mean, this thing. Oh, my God. I mean, I don't know who made it. I think it was, like, not a great designer. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but it was something like, you know, when Charlotte. When we go to Atlantic City and I get that tacky dress in the store, in the casino, it was like that. Like, when Charlotte is trying to be sexy or what she thinks of as sexy. And it's way outside her normal purview. That's what this see through thing is. And I remember being scared out of my wits to film that scene and to walk out in this outfit and very stressed about what underwear to wear underneath it because it is so see through. I was, like, calling my manager, like, what should I do? You can kind of see my breasts. Like, oh, I was scared out of my mind. So, I mean, I look at it now and I'm like, that's not really so much of a thing. But at the time it seemed like it. Yeah.

[Chloe Mal]

No, Charlotte's 90s. And I have to give credit here. When our producer emailed me and said, you need to choose your top 10 favorite Carrie and Charlotte looks, I immediately, like, took out the bat phone to two of my best friends who are encyclopedic academics of the SATC canon. And immediately my friend Perrin sent me, like, Charlotte's 90s, like, 14 images. And we. Yeah, so I. That was. And something I did love, but I'm not sure I would have thought of that without that.

[Kristen Davis]

Tell her thank you. Tell her thank you. I appreciate it. My. There's this one from first season, which I think is just like a, you know, department store. Yeah, possibly. Possibly, like, not La Perla because we couldn't afford it, but maybe like, Natori. Yeah, we did wear a fair amount of Natori. And then we get into the vintage look, which at a certain point in the Trey relationship, I do actually have vintage because I was trying to pretend that I was Elizabeth Taylor and Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.

[Chloe Mal]

Right.

[Kristen Davis]

Which works for so many different ways.

[Chloe Mal]

And then is a foreshadowing of the king Charles Spaniel.

[Kristen Davis]

100%. 100%. All connected. Yes. And then we did discuss the beautiful Westwood. Sarah has such a great history of wearing Westwood and I think wears it so, so beautifully. I always love it any Westwood time. Oh, my God. Then we have this look. Now, this would be one of the times where I would have been, like, you know, like, have a very Charlotte type reaction, but this woman can pull it off.

[Chloe Mal]

These hot pants with this newsboy cap and the baguette. It was. It's just one of those, er, carry looks where you're like, this is ridiculous and just exactly what we want.

[Kristen Davis]

100%. 100%. And also, I don't think you have it in here, but do you remember the tiny green skirt with the little fluff frill on the back?

[Chloe Mal]

Yes. It had a little tail. Like a little feather.

[Kristen Davis]

I was really concerned. I was like, oh, God, she's gonna be on the streets in that. Is she gonna be okay? Now, wait. I have a really good memory of this Miranda look. This Miranda look is. Is, you know, a. A a one of the Halloween costumes that people sometimes wear, which I love. And this is when I think we're in Bryant park, the actual park, and she's wearing this. And Sarah Jeska's wearing basically a Heidi outfit. Oh, yes.

[Ad Voiceover]

It's true.

[Kristen Davis]

Do you remember? Yes. And she has, like, pink cheeks, and she might have pretend freckles even. Like, she's so ahead of her time. And I'm wearing, like, a bucket hat, which is not my favorite, but Pat was really into hats. Like, Pat would have a theme and, like, a vision, and then we would all be part of it, and you just had to kind of, like, live through it. And I remember having one, like, a little Charlotte type speech, like, where I go on some kind of a rant. And I had Cynthia in this one outfit on one side and Sarah in the Heidi on the other side. And I remember just breaking into giggles. Like, I just couldn't focus. I just was like, I don't know where to look. I'm just gonna look at Kim. Cause I don't know where to look. It makes me laugh. But, you know, this is what the show is great at, is just being creative and thinking outside the box. And I give so much credit to Pat and to our directors and executive producers for allowing us to do so.

[Chloe Mal]

Truly.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. Because, I mean, it all worked in the end, and it was part of the fun, right?

[Chloe Mal]

Completely.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. Okay, here we have Sarah in the Dior by Galliano.

[Chloe Mal]

Everyone talks about this dress, but I do feel like it's taken on a new life of its own with Jenna Ortega wore it. And I just have to say, you know, as someone who works in print media, print is not dead. It's on that dress.

[Kristen Davis]

Thank God. Right? Thank God. And I remember this. At the time, this was a special dress for a special scene where they really planned ahead. And. And, you know, there's so much thought that Sarah Jessica, Pat, and Molly would put into kind of those special moments, and they'd. That this dress might have come in early, and then they save it. They kind of try to hide it, but, you know, they always need things for shoots, so then they have to let it go. And then they're like, oh, I hope they send the Dior dress back. Oh, I hope they send the Dior dress back. And let us keep it long enough. And then when Jenna Ortega wore it, it was incredible. And we discussed this to somebody on our recent press tour and Sarah Jessica was very much a fan, which was so nice. We have all the important things except for the hat. Do you want to talk about the hat really briefly?

[Chloe Mal]

Sure. I love this hat because I'm very into sun protection and I respect that Carrie leaned into gingham for this.

[Kristen Davis]

Good call. I feel the same way. And it goes so perfectly with the Ozzy Clark. I think that people are so strange that they want to criticize this.

[Chloe Mal]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

I find that wacky. Like, why not let the woman wear.

[Chloe Mal]

What she wants, Right? Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

It's. I agree. I agree. I'm happy that you like it. You have been such a joy, Chloe.

[Ad Voiceover]

Thank you.

[Chloe Mal]

Thank you so much, Kristen. This was such a treat.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay, bye. Bye.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Kevin McHale]

This is Danielle Fishel, Will Friedle and.

[Danielle Fishel]

Ryder Strong from Pod Meats World. Listen, I've eaten a lot of questionable meats in my but then I found Dietz and Watson.

[Kevin McHale]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Kristen Davis]

Some deals stop you in your tracks and this is one of them. Right now with the Hyundai Getaway sales event, you can drive off with big savings on top models like the Kona, Tucson, Santa Fe, Palisade and more including the all electric, Ioniq 5 and Ioniq 6. And every Hyundai comes backed by American has best warranty and complimentary maintenance so you can save now and later. You're not just buying a car, you're getting value, confidence and a company that truly has your back. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Offers end September 2, 2025 this summer.

[Ad Voiceover]

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[Kristen Davis]

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[Podcast Host]

This is an I Heart podcast.