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Kristin Davis
Kristin Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Welcome to Are you a Charlotte? This is our very first podcast. It's kind of crazy, very nervous, but we're just going to press on together. Okay. We are doing this podcast, are you a Charlotte? Because we want to look back at our wonderful show Sex and the City and kind of relive it. I'm gonna rewatch it, but also just tell you how I remember it. You know, what was happening in life, what it was like filming it, all the different memories that come up when I'm watching it. I watched the pilot last night and wow, wow. I have so many thoughts. But also, we really want to have guests on. We wanna hear from the fans. We want you guys to write in and call in and maybe come visit. I just wanna create a community around the show that we were Sex and the City, the movies, and just like that, our whole trajectory and communicate with everyone about the themes that we talked about back then and how relevant they still are now. I want to acknowledge all of our writers who've contributed. Our creator, Darren Starr originally and Michael Patrick King currently. You know, we would not be able to be here if their writing and their ideas were not so. So good and brilliant and have really stood the test of time. You know, when I'm out in life, I run into fans and have just the most amazing conversations. And sometimes people cry and tell me about things in their life, or sometimes people are like, remember that time you guys were on the sideline ferry? Or, you know, whatever. It is different things. And it's such a connecting kind of a thing with people. And sometimes I'm in a hurry and I can't connect. And so that's kind of part of the reason that I felt like this podcast was the right time and kind of the right time for me in life to reflect back. There used to be a time where I never wanted to see the old show because I felt like I would be living in the past. Cause obviously it takes me back, but I feel at this point that it's really interesting to look back and it has been so long and we are luckily still playing these characters. So super fascinating, too, to think about how we all began and what we were thinking then and how we have been able to evolve. So welcome to Are you a Charlotte? So the first thing that I was gonna talk about is, like, my life and how I got cast in the show and what it was like to get cast in the show. So I had been on Melrose Place, which Darren also created, Darren Starr, and very luckily cast me as this character, Brooke Armstrong. And I was on for a season, but a season of Melrose place was like 36 episodes, which is totally insane to think about now. And then I died. Yes, I died in the pool. I died. I had to remember for a second. So I was out of work, basically. I was out of work. I'd had this big, big great job that was fun, but also very bizarre. Melrose Place was like a cult kind of a soap opera show. A lot of people watching it. It was my first big job. And then I went back to being kind of an out of work actor, auditioning all the time, all the time, all the time, trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And I had this wonderful manager, Dave Fleming, who's still my manager. And he said to me one day, he said, you know, I really think that you should do comedy, because you can do comedy and not everyone can. And so you've been on a soap, and we probably are going to have to work to get you cast in comedy. So I auditioned for, for instance, Seinfeld. I think I auditioned, I want to say, six Times and then finally got a guest star on Seinfeld. Incredible. Amazing. Then I was. I had a little part on ER with Clooney. Also amazing. You know, little things that. Where I was just trying to. You know, you're trying to find your thing. And I got this script from Darren, and I had a little note from it, and he said, kristin, you know, I really want you to read this for the part of Carrie. He didn't say, will you do the part of Carrie? I think that's some rumor that's out there that I was offered the part of Carrie. No, no, no. No one was offering me any roles at this point in life. Okay. I was reading scripts and auditioning. So he sends me the script and he says, read this for the part of Carrie. And I was like, okay. And Carrie is very clearly the main part. And she is described as having the body of Heather Locklear with the mind of Dorothy Parker. And I'm like, what? I can't. What? I can't do that. So I'm like, how stressing. And in the pilot, she swore a lot and she smoked a lot. She was much more like the Candace Bushnell of the time, which Candace wrote the column that then became the book Sex and the City, that Carrie is based on. So in the pilot, she was not, as you see her when Sarah Jessica does eventually play her. So I thought to myself, I can't. I can't possibly pull this off. At the time, I definitely was like, no way. But I like this other girl, Charlotte. Because Charlotte in the pilot, there was not a lot on the page, but it was very clear that she had a different point of view than the other girls, that she was more focused on, you know, relationships and love, which I kind of related to. But also, I'd grown up in the south, where everyone was trying to get married, and I just felt like she was more hopeful and less. I don't know how to put it, but she seemed more younger in her viewpoint and open than the other characters, which at the time, I related to a lot when I watched the pilot. I have some other thoughts, but we'll get to that in a second. So I was like, well, Darren, Darren, I can't possibly play that part. I think I called him and said, I can't play Carrie. I don't even know what you're thinking, but I could play this other girl. I want to play this other girl. He was like, oh, okay. Okay. You know, we have Sarah Jessica Parker, and we really want her to play Carrie. And I Was like, that would be amazing. I was a huge fan of Sarah's. I had seen LA's story multiple times and she does other things too, but I just loved her. I had seen her in Annie when I was little and she was little, but I hadn't been aware of her as being her at that time. But I was like, you should make that work with Sir Jessica Parker because she's incredible and intelligent and so fascinating and this would be a great part for her. And she lived in New York and she was very of New York, you know, so thought that would be great. So I said, no, no, I need to play this other character. She said, okay, we'll bring you in for the other character. So I go in and I really wanted it because at that point in time, I can't remember any shows that were led by women and only women at that time filming. And nothing filmed in New York except for cop shows like Law and Order. So the idea that you would go to Manhattan, that these four women were the through line of the thing. It was unclear in the pilot exactly what would happen with the four women, but it was clear that Carrie was the lead and that these other women were in the mix. And the idea that we would walk around Manhattan in these outfits and go to the Met staircase to record, do the show, do the locations, whatever, it was very. It was a very glamorous idea and kind of like outside the box of what was currently happening in 1997, which is the year that we filmed the pilot. So I really wanted it. So I go to test at the HBO building over here in Century City and in la. And they were seeing people in New York, seeing people in la. There was a lot of people in the mix. You'd hear like, oh, they want a comedian to play Miranda. Oh, they wanted this. Oh, they wanted that. You'd hear all these different things, but everybody wanted these parts. And so I go. I think I just went directly to test. I don't remember going in before that. And this is back in the olden days where we had fax machines and we went to test on the day and you had this. You had to have a pilot deal which was this really lengthy, like seven year contract, which was how television worked at the time. And it would have like you would be in, in this many episodes each season for this year, but they had to have seven years of your commitment, which was a lot. And their fax machine at the office had broken, so they wouldn't let anyone read for the part without signing the Final contract that were being sent by all of our lawyers. So I was there. Willie Garson was there, and I knew Willie already. I had met Willie in Vancouver probably the year before, and I loved him so much. So thank God he was there, because I had to wait for hours before I could go in and read. Darren was there, but he was inside reading with whoever got their contract first. Right. So I'm sitting on a counter at this point, and Willie is sitting up there with me. We're there for so long that, like, I'd be nervous, and then I'd get unnervous. And then Willie would tell me a funny story, made me laugh, and I'd be unnervous. And then I'd get nervous again. Darren would come out, and Darren looked very stressed. And I think the backstory for Darren is that he had had a big deal at fox because of 90210 and Melrose, and he really wanted to change up what he was doing. He wanted to take more risks. He wanted to film in Manhattan. So he had gone with HBO for less money because he felt like he'd have more freedom, which he absolutely did. Because at that time, the networks were very specific and safe and advertiser driven, and cable was brand new. So HBO had only had a show, I think they had had Dream on, which was odd show where every episode some woman took her top off. And then they had had the Larry Sanders show, which I had also guest starred on, which was incredible. But that was it. So there's no Sopranos. There was nothing else on hbo. And HBO was like, we're going to try this. We don't know. We're not a real network. So we're in the testing office. We're in the office of hbo. And Darren's nervously coming in and out. Willie's like, making me laugh, making it so much better. But it goes on. I might have waited five hours. I can't remember. It was very long. And I was pretty nervous because I really, really wanted the part of Charlotte. So I go in, I read, then I go back out. This is how testing worked. And you have to wait. And then they're gonna come back out and give you notes or tell you to go home or whatever. It's, like, very stressful. And Willie's just like, oh, my God, I've had it. You know, he's so funny. So Darren comes out. I had gone in, I had read, I had come back out. You know, Charlotte doesn't have a lot in the pilot, so I had done the best with what I had. And it wasn't, like, jokes or, like, funny funny. It was, you know, more. It was the scenes with the guy. So it was more relationship, whatever stuff. So he comes out and he's like, kristen, you've gotta be funnier. You've gotta be funnier. And he's waving his hands like this. And I'm like, oh, God, he's super nervous. So I was like, okay, I've gotta be funnier. Oh, my God, what am I gonna. So I was like, willie, what am I gonna do? He was like, oh, you know, just make it bigger. Make it bigger. And I was like, okay. Okay. So I go back in, and I think there were three people. Like, that's how small HBO was. It was Chris Ulbricht, the head of hbo, Carolyn Strauss, who was the head of original programming. And I think Michael Hill, who was, like, the executive in charge of the new shows. I guess I think that. And maybe our casting people. Billy Hopkins or Carrie Barton. Hardly anyone there. So I go back in, and I remember Chris standing up. And Chris was wearing, like, a complete riding outfit, like, with tall boots and whatever. And I was like, this is so fascinating. And he was like, you know, can you, you know, make her. Make her, you know, more funny? And I was like, okay, I'll try. So I really tried to make that. That funny. But I think it was the scene on the Met staircase, which wasn't funny. But anyway, whatever, I did my best. And I was like, oh, please, God, let this work. Please let this work. So we leave. And the way that the contract was was you would test. And then I think they had two weeks to tell you. Oh, the longest two weeks of my life. Like, they waited and waited. Every day I'd call my people. Did you hear anything? Did you hear anything? They're like, no, we haven't heard anything. Like, oh, my God. Jesus. God, what if they don't do it? So at the final day, you know, it was like, you know, the time is ticking. And I was like, I've just. I'm gonna go to the movies. So I went to a Brad Pitt movie. I remember it. And I, like, ran to the car afterwards. Called on, like, my ancient cell phone, and they were like, yes, you got it. I was like, oh, thank God. So I was super excited, but, like, really nervous. And then I don't remember anything in between there except getting to Manhattan. I had lived in New York before. I had gone to Rutgers in New Jersey. I had gone all over Manhattan. And this is when I Get to watching the pilot. I watched the pilot, and I was like, first of all, I seem like I'm 25 years old. And second of all, I seem like I've literally never been to Manhattan. Like, everyone else is so much more sophisticated than me. And I don't know. I don't know if it's like, the Charlotte element I remember. Okay, so I had long hair previous to getting there for. For this, you know, hair. Like, kind of like how it is right now. I get there. One of the first things they say to me is that they want me to cut my hair. And I'm like, why? Why do you want me to cut my hair? Because to me, I didn't feel like all the New York ladies had their haircut or whatever, but they were like, we want you to look like Jill Hennessy, who's on Law and Order. And I was like, well, but Jill Hennessy is, like, really tall and extremely beautiful, and she's got this long neck. And how am I ever gonna look like Jill Hennessy? And also, my hair's wavy. I was like, if you cut my hair, like, she had, like, a short bob at this time, right? I'm just gonna have, like, a poof. I'm gonna be like a poodle. So the hair guy on the pilot, really sweet guy, very much like a. Like a regular journeyman hairdresser on TV shows, right? And he's like, you've gotta get your haircut. And if you don't get your haircut, I'm gonna cut it for you on your first day of work. And I'm like, what? So I'm, like, in a panic. And at this point, I don't really know Sarah Jessica well enough, right, to go to her. I know I should have gone to her asap, okay? But I didn't know yet. And I also probably should have gone to Darren. I don't know if Darren was aware that they were trying to chop my hair off. But I was like, oh, God.
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Cindy Crawford
Oh, God.
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Kristin Davis
So I go to, like, this salon on Madison Avenue, and they had a booklet that you had to go through and, like, pick out, like, a haircut. So I was like, I guess this one. So I picked that weird haircut that I have. It's like, here. It's like a very halfway haircut. But I was so scared that that guy was gonna cut my hair in the trailer at work, which seemed really, like, not a good idea. So I get this haircut, and then I remember Sarah Jessica being like, what happened to your hair? And I was like, that dude made me cut it. She was like, what? And then I realized, like, this is who I need to talk to about things. Then I get there. He doesn't like my haircut, and he wants me to put this massive velvet scrunchie on the back of my head. It's literally, like, as big as my face. And I'm like, sarah Jessica? No. Cause at that point, I realized that you need to run things by her. She's gonna help you. So I'm like, he wants to put this scrunchie on my head. She was like, no. No scrunchies. No banana clips. We're in Manhattan. And I'm like, okay. Thank God. Right? So I've got that strange little, like, flip in that. Oof. That first scene when I'm talking to camera. Oh, gosh. It's not good. It's not good. And then, thank goodness, they put my hair up. I think for the rest of it, at least for the date, they put my hair up. I can't remember for the Chinese restaurant. But, I mean, that was stressful. So after that, I grew my hair out, you know, thank goodness. And I think at that point and this, the other. I mean, I don't even know when I should get into the rewatching. But when we rewatch, I say that I live at 4th and Bank. When did Charlotte ever live at 4th and Bank? I'm like, oh, my God, I'm in the Village. I was in the Village and I didn't even know it. And that's like, a dream address. I'm like, maybe they asked Kristen where she'd like to live. And I would have said Fourth and Bank, but I had no idea. Charlotte's Upper east side, Upper west side. I was Upper west side then I was Upper east side. But, I mean, it's all very interesting. But the main thing I wanna say from that is that we didn't know what we were, in a way. Do you know what I mean? Like, it seems now kind of like we did. And I think Sarah Jessica did, but I didn't know at all what we were. You know, I remember thinking, like, I've got to walk around and look at the women and try to figure out, like, who these characters are. And I also knew that Charlotte, in the book Sexnicity, wasn't really. She wasn't prominently featured, and she wasn't like a through line. And later on, I found out that she was based on different people. So Candace had kind of compiled different stories of different friends of hers. Into one person. Which is why when you read the book, you're kind. Like, in the book, I think Charlotte takes psychedelics and goes roller skating. Like, what? You know what I'm saying? So I remember just being like, huh, that's really interesting. But I was just trying to navigate. And I'm wearing that short skirt when you first see me. What on earth. I mean, that's definitely a Melrose Place. You know, that's what we wore predominantly. But I'm just like, oh, my God. But it was 97 also, so anyway. And we didn't have pat feelings. So many things. I remember so many things. I remember meeting Cynthia. I had seen Cynthia when she was doing two plays on Broadway across the street from each other. And I had read an article about her in the New York Times and thought, like, this woman, oh, wow, she's got the life, you know, she's incredible. And she was so good in these two plays. The real thing. And hurly burly, like, incredible actress. So I was very kind of, like, starstruck in a way. And CYN had a baby, Sam, at the time. And I was like, aren't you nervous? I remember she had, like, a little picture of Sam on her notebook. I said, aren't you nervous to go to work? And she was like, no. And I was like, this woman's cool. She's so cool and fascinating, right? She's like, no. What do you mean? I'm like, okay, all right, all right. So it's fascinating. And I remember meeting Kim. I think I'd met Kim in Vancouver. There's, like, one hotel when you work in Vancouver. All the actors stay in. But I hadn't really talked to her. And then we were in it. Cause I think we were staying in the same hotel. I think remember being in an elevator with her and talking about Jazz. I mean, it was so long ago. So long ago. But I mostly remember, in terms of all of us being together, would be the scene in the pilot when we're in the Chinese restaurant that I guess is Miranda's birthday, which is also funny. Didn't remember that. That was really the only time in the pilot that we're together in the way that we come to be together, obviously, as part of the show. And I remember that day super well. I was super excited to get to work with everyone. And I remember Sarah Jessica called me to her trailer. She's like, come, come with me. And she had this huge thing of Krispy Kreme doughnuts. And I grew up in South Carolina, where Krispy Kremer from. And I was like, first of all, how is this tiny, tiny little actress eating Krispy Kreme doughnuts? And second of all, hallelujah. Because none of that was happening at Melrose Place, right? I was like, we're gonna eat donuts. Oh, my God. And we chatted, and she was to ask me questions about myself and was just so incredibly sweet. And then we went into the scene, and it was really, you know, we've got the, you know, drag queens and the crazy Chinese things, and it was like, so many people, and it was so different from anything in the Melrose World and really fun and exciting. And at that point, that's when I remember the talking to the camera thing. So I don't know if you all remember, we used to talk to the camera. That was like a part of the pilot that was really interesting and very different. And it was just on the page. So I don't remember as a person thinking, like, should this be here? Should this not be here? I just remember it being very hard to do, like, when I had to be like, you know, these men are threatened by successful women, and so you just have to be quiet and play the game or something. I say, like, so hysterical. But, like, the fact that you would actually look in the camera was so. For an actor, right? Like, you were like, am I on a commercial? What am I doing? What am I doing? And I feel to some extent that what I remember about the Chinese restaurant scene was Sarah Jessica talking to Darren about it. Because there is some kind of debate about how much should she talk to the camera or in what way should she talk to the camera? Especially if we were in a group scene, like, in what way would she turn and just start talking to the camera? Like, it was strange to break the fourth wall in that way. And she seem to feel at the time, I remember, not super comfortable with it. And I remember watching her talking to Darren about it and thinking, like, this woman is so strong in herself and knows herself so well and is talking to him in such a great way of, like, an equal footing in terms of the creative process. And I hadn't really seen that. I hadn't really been around that. I mean, maybe in theater I had, but not. Not in television up to that point. And she really was really just trying to navigate her own way to make it organic. Because it's a really odd thing. Like, you're in a scene, you're doing your regular acting, and then you have to turn and be like, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah. It was a strange, strange thing. And I knew at the time that she was uncomfortable. So when I was going to do this podcast, you know, I have obviously talked to everyone about it in our world and they have given their blessing. And I. I said, you know, I just want to check in with you about the talking to the camera, because I remember that day at the Chinese restaurant, and I remember you and Darren kind of negotiating how it would go or how much. And she reminded me of a couple things that I would never have remembered. One is that she felt really uncomfortable about it because she felt like it's really hard to do. It's hard to make it organic because you are in a scene. And also this one I hadn't remembered. Matthew Broderick, her husband, had done it in Ferris Bueller. And Ferris Bueller's Day off, in case you haven't seen it, is a huge classic film that was, you know, a touchstone for all, all of us as we were growing up. Like, it was a formative kind of a viewing experience. So for Sarah, she felt like, well, Matthew did this so brilliantly. How am I gonna live up to that? Which, of course, I would never remember that, and probably no viewer would remember that. But it makes perfect sense when you think about it, because that was an inherent part of Ferris Bueller's Day off, right? That you're kind of with the Ferris character going through it all and he's just talking to you in this kind of like, kind of smart aleck, adorable, charming, Matthew way. And I think Sarah felt like that was too hard to do for an entire show, you know, and it's a good point. It's a lot. It's a lot of her talking to the camera. I only had to do it a tiny bit. And I remember it being very hard. So that was really interesting for me to think about. But then the other thing, I don't even know if I should get into this yet or whatever, but, like, all the other people talking to the camera and the fact that you don't even see the rest of us for so long, I had forgotten all these things till I. And then also Sarah Winter, who's kind of our guest star, and her storyline is so fascinating, and then we never find out what happens. I'm like, what happened to that character? She's just gone. She got ghosted by this guy. Oh, no. Where is she? Is she okay? Why don't we ever talk about her anymore? Like, it's super fascinating. You know, I've forgotten all that. We're gonna talk to Sarah in a.
- [25:25]
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Cindy Crawford
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Kristin Davis
Hey, I was just in an accident.
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Cindy Crawford
Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of.
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Kristin Davis
Learn more@meaningful beauty.com.
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Kristin Davis
I haven't seen the pilot in probably, I mean at least 20 years, maybe more, because I was never a fan of the pilot. I was like, I don't know about the pilot. I knew in my gut that the show was a living, breathing thing that we should do and that I should be on it as well as everyone else. But I didn't. When I saw the pilot, I was like, I don't know in terms of a pilot, right? Cause back then we were in more networky television. It was a different vibe. And when you see our show, it is also a different vibe. Like it's kind of rough. Like when they go to Chaos, which I'm not in that scene. Everyone always asks me about chaos. And I'm like, I don't remember chaos. That's because I wasn't there. Chaos is a mess. You're like, what's happening here? Like, did they just take a camera in there and film people? Like, it's messy and interesting. I mean, very, very different from network tv. Very different. I guess part of my response to the pilot back then was that it didn't seem polished, it didn't seem smooth. It seemed kind of choppy and hectic. But I also feel my personal theory on pilots in general is that if they're too good, if the pilot is too formed, the show might not be good. Like, what you want in a pilot is like a spark, like something like a fissure, like an energy. And then the show can run on that and you can form it into something like clay. And then you can form it into something if you have the right creative people and if you have a network who will allow you to form it. Which luckily we did in hbo, thank God. Because we really. We went on such a course of, you know, finding each character and the show's vibe, you know, over the years, really. And it's actually still a journey, which is amazing and amazing that we've been allowed to do that. But I remember watching the pilot myself at the time, and the scene that I remembered and loved, and I feel like everyone feels this way, is the last scene with Meg and Carrie in the car and when she gets out. And first of all, the Village, I mean, it's unrecognizable. Okay? The city in general. You're just like, I can't even believe it's changed as much as it's changed. I mean, it's still glorious, but it's just. It was like. It looks like the 70s almost. Do you know what I mean? That's a little. A little questionable to say. And people who are in New York in the 70s might disagree with me. But, I mean, it's rough looking. It's fascinatingly rough looking, except for the Met stairs, of course. Very glamorous. But Sarah on the street, and we used to film in Super 16, which is very different than how we film now. So it's got a kind of a rougher quality to the actual film stock. And it's just so interesting. Like an indie film. It reminds me of an indie film and also an indie film in terms of, like, you're here, you're there. There's not a lot of explanation there's not a lot of backstory. People are just talking to you and then you're in chaos and people are smoking cigars. And like, it's a very interesting and slightly chaotic situation. But really, I wanted to know more. Like, when I watched it last night, I'm like, I wanna know all about Miranda. I feel like Miranda in that suit with that hair, eating, you know, like, calling Skipper Skippy. And then she pushes up against the wall. I don't remember any of this. I obviously wasn't there when they filmed it, but I was like, I wanna go with her. Like, what's her job? What's she doing? And I guess it said corporate lawyer. But, like, I wanna follow her there. She's super fascinating and funny and weird. And then Samantha is so sophisticated and powerful. You know, this is my other thought when I was watching the show, I was like, the three of them are very powerful. Charlotte, not so powerful. Not so powerful at all. Charlotte's like a puppy, you know? I really was like, this is super fascinating. So I have this other story. So I told you about testing and I had this big, big deal. It was like, big, thick, seven year deal. When we're doing the pilot, this producer, I think she was like a maybe a line producer. Like, not an executive producer. One day I'm in my trailer and she comes to my trailer and she knocks on my door and I open it and I, you know, yes. And she says, oh, we have this paperwork we need you to fill out. And I was like, okay. I take the paperwork and I look at it and it seems to be like a new contract, but it's only two pages long. I'm like, what is this? And it says, like, you know, you will be a recurring character and you will be paid $5,000. And I was like, what? What? So I called my lawyer. I'm like, jason, he's still my lawyer. I'm like, jason, he just gave me this new paperwork. What do I do? He said, do not sign it. I was like, but. But they're gonna ask me. What am I gonna say? Cause I'm a good girl, you know, I'd like to do my things right? And he's like, just. Just say you forgot it. Say you forgot it. And I'm like, okay, what is going on? He said, I don't know. I'm gonna find out. I'll call them. I don't know. I know that the pilot's costing a lot and that they're stressed at HBO about it. I like, 2.5 million roughly. Which at the time was a lot, because no one really filmed in Manhattan, right? When you look at it, it does not look like it cost a lot, but I think just being in the locations we were in cost a lot. So I was like, oh, God. Oh, Jesus. What are they trying to do to me? What's happening? I was so stressed, and then I was just like, I'm just not going to mention this to anybody else. I'm just going to pretend like everything's fine, you know? But inside, I was really, really nervous about it, and I didn't know what it meant. Darren didn't say anything to me about it. So I thought, well, if Darren's not saying anything to me about it, then everything must be okay. I don't know. I was scared. But it was also very clear from the book and from the script and from the pilot that Charlotte's point of view was a different point of view than the other girls. And not that they all shared the exact same point of view. They don't. But when we do have that group scene about trying to have sex like a man, and I'm like, what? You know, and I make crazy faces, you know, like, what? Rose romance, you know, it's very clear that I'm on a different trajectory. And you do kind of think, like, how did Charlotte get to be friends with these girls? Like, this is interesting, right? But I do feel like that is how friend groups are. Like, you're gonna have a variety of friend groups. I always thought that was weird through the years when people would bring that up to me, like, why are you friends with them? I'd be. Why wouldn't I be friends with them? Right? They're fascinating. They're interesting. I think Charlotte was trying to, like, learn from them or, you know, hopefully some of that would rub off on her or whatever. But honestly, when I looked back on, I was like, well, now I. I do think they were trying to save money, but I also think that they were like, well, she's so different. And the other three are kind of powerful, like, in control, trying to navigate this relationship thing where we're talking about these issues and, you know, can women have sex like men and not have feelings? You know, like, what does it mean to be ghosted? You know, why are there so many incredible single women and all these toxic bachelors? Like, I get all of the points. And then to have Charlotte be kind of this looking for love, you know, naive character, which obviously I knew she was. It is different. It is definitely different. But in my Gut. I felt like it was really important to have this other character. So even though I was super stressed about this weird paperwork thing, I did feel like, no, no, they need me. You know, I felt inside that they needed me. And I'm so happy that I did, because obviously it could have really gone wrong, right? Like, anyone can get recast or cut out or at any time in our business, but in my gut, I didn't feel like that would happen. And I'm so thankful that I. That I didn't and that I had faith in myself. I really am unsure why in some ways, you know what I'm saying? Like, I wasn't the most super confident person or whatever, but I do feel like when things come to you and you have something that connects with that and you have something that you want to be able to express or. Or create or whatever, and something that you want to be a part of. Because I know I desperately wanted to be a part of it. Like, I. I thought it was, like, the most incredible job ever, you know? And when I watch that group scene, all I see is how much I want to connect with them, you know, how much I want to be with them and fit in. Which is kind of heartbreaking in a certain way. But also, that is kind of Charlotte, you know, that is kind of, in a way, like, she wants to be loved. She wants to find love. She wants to have love with her girlfriend. She wants to connect, you know, And I do relate to that still. But when I look back on it, I'm like, wow. I was like a floppy puppy. And they're like sophisticated power, you know, Like Samantha. I mean, I was just like, she's like a purring cat of power. And, you know, like, she's in there using her tools, and Kim does it so well. And then Miranda is like an awkward power, you know what I'm saying? Like, and then Carrie, I forgot this whole scene where she goes to try to have sex with Bill Sage's character and gets out of bed and is like, you know, good luck. He's like, what about me? And she's like, nevermind. And she gets out of bed. I was like, wow, I totally forgot about this. How incredible. But I do remember that we were. It was, you know, shocking in many ways to be talking about sex in this kind of open way at the time. And I remember that we were nervous about the response. Like. Like, would women like it? Like, we were trying to make it for women, but we were like, are they going to be turned off? Because I do Think there's a lot to think about in terms of, like, the male gaze and how, like, at that time in films, there was a lot of sexuality, but it was from the director's point of view or the male actors. Like, it was from the male gaze, not necessarily from empowering women. I mean, with a few exceptions. Like, I can think of, like, that Melanie Griffith movie in Manhattan. What was it called? Do you remember? Sidebar. We'll figure it out later. Working girl. Working girl. Good job. Good job. Working girl. Working girl. Incredible. Like, there were, like, here and there, little people. And we talk about the last seduction. We talk about that in the film. And that was also, like, a super powerful female character. Linda Fiorentino, remember her? You're too young anyway, you know, like, there were things here and there where the women were powerful kind of sexual beings, but there was no TV show like that at all, right? So, like, from that perspective, I think about how amazing it was to be a part of it and how much fear we had about the response of it to it, you know, but also how incredible that we got to do it, you know, and how far everything has come. But yet, when you look back, we don't use the term ghosting, but obviously Sarah Winters character is ghosted before we had a term for it, which is always a very perplexing thing and still very much something, you know, we discuss in. In. In our culture. And then also, you know, can women have sex like men? I mean, I think it's a valid question. I do feel like that part of the conversation has definitely come a long way. Like. Like, I feel like, you know, the casual hookup became very, like, acceptable in a certain way, in a more kind of equal men and women way, which is great, but wasn't true in the 90s. I don't feel like. I mean, it might have been true, but I don't know that we were open about it, you know? But anyway, I think those things are super fascinating, and those were the two big themes of the show. And then also, I mean, I thought so many things watching the show, but one of the things I thought was, like, every male character in the show is awful. Okay? They're awful. Why do we even want to date them? Why? Why? And thank God we wrote Toxic Bachelor on each one, because all of them. All of them, even Skipper, I mean, he's just. I don't know. I'm not. I'm not buying the Skipper of it all. I hadn't really remembered the Skipper of it all. I just love how Miranda is with him where she's just like Skippy, you know, it's just so funny. But I mean, it's super fascinating. All of it, all of it. And then, I mean, there's so many other things that I've left out. For one thing, I just want to talk about Sarah Jessica. We're going to have a little Sarah Jessica talk right now. She's got her brown hair. Love it. I love it so much. I know we had to go blonde, but like to see her brown hair, curly, natural. And her eyes, my good Lord, like, thank God we built an empire on this woman. She is incredible. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I was floored. I had not watched this thing in so long. And her ease and grace and like also intelligence and depth, right? But like the scene on the street where she meets Big and she drops the condoms. But then also when she's leaving, you know, she almost like she has to fix her skirt behind her. Like her physical comedy is so brilliant, but also subtle. And then also like when she has the scene with Bill Sage where she's like, oh my God, I forgot Willie. Oh my God, when Willie comes on the screen, I might cry. Sorry. But you know, he's so young and he's so beautiful and I really had forgotten, you know, sorry. But I had to stop. When I was watching it, I was like, oh my God, we were just little, little babies, you know, and he's so funny and their relationship is so great and they had been friends for so long. So I love it that it's on camera. I have to stop this for a little second.
- [41:09]
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In the scene, I was thinking about the scene that Willie and Sarah are in together, and. And, you know, he's telling her, like, don't go talk to him. And she's like, no, no, I. You know, I'm doing research. And she's so seductive and funny and, like, her eyes. I'm like, well, who could say no to her? Like, who could say no to her? She's incredible. So that was fun to watch. Like, I don't know that. I. I think I was just like, I'm just gonna do everything she tells me to do. Like, that's what I feel like at the time when I met her, you know, she seemed so much more sophisticated. And, I mean, she, frankly, just is more sophisticated than I am. And I just remember thinking, like, whatever she says, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna try to do it. Like, if she says to grow my hair out, I'm gonna grow my hair out. You know, if she says to wear longer shirts, I'm gonna wear longer skirts. I'm just gonna try to do whatever she says. And I did, which is great. But it's really funny to look at everything she brings and how she shifted the role of Carrie to kind of suit her. But also, she made her more kind of like every woman in a way. I mean, I know this is obviously debatable, and the show goes on a long time and everyone has opinions about Carrie, but, you know, she's so fascinating. And I don't think that our whole trajectory would ever have worked if Sarah had played less. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, she added so much depth and thinking. Like, her intelligence shows through in so many ways because she is a columnist and she is thinking about, well, why this and why that. And, you know, she is the reason that we could all deepen out, you know, because if she hadn't brought that, then the rest of us wouldn't have been able to do that. So I thought about that, watching it. Like, it's a pretty incredible performance, even in the messiness of us trying to find ourselves. And her apartment. Oh, my God, I still can't get over that apartment and what I think it was. Cause, I mean, obviously we changed to the Perry street apartment, which was not supposed to be in Perry Street. It was supposed to be the Upper east side, which is where Candace actually lived. And Candace, I believe, did actually live over a coffee shop. Remember they show that neon sign of the coffee shop and then that really, really, incredibly messy apartment. I mean, it's super interesting, but I was shocked. I do not remember it being that, that dark and that messy. And I'm really glad that we changed it. Okay, so as you can see, I have many stories. I have stories for days. Stories for days. And I look forward to telling them all to you. But I also have an exciting guest. We're gonna bring the very first guest star, Sarah Winter in to talk to me. She's the very first face that you see in the pilot and she's so lovely and I have such fond memories of her and I can't wait to see her again. And that is gonna be on our next episode of are you a Charlotte? And I think we're going to ask Sarah, are you a Charlotte? Let's ask her. Let's find out. Thanks for being with me.
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