The Big and Small of the Season 1 Finale with Camilla Luddington... (S1 E12 "Oh Come All Ye Faithful")

Summary

Podcast Summary: Are You A Charlotte? - Episode: The Big and Small of the Season 1 Finale with Camilla Luddington (S1 E12 "Oh Come All Ye Faithful")

Release Date: April 30, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of "Are You A Charlotte?", hosts Kristin Davis and special guest Camilla Luddington delve into the intricacies of the Season 1 finale of Sex and the City, titled "Oh Come All Ye Faithful." The discussion not only revisits pivotal moments from the episode but also explores the enduring themes and character dynamics that continue to resonate with audiences today.

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Episode Recap

The finale centers around Carrie Bradshaw's exploration of religion, leading her to a picturesque street corner where she unexpectedly encounters Mr. Big and his elegant mother, portrayed by the acclaimed actress Marian Seldes. Their encounter sparks a complex conversation that reveals deeper layers of Big's character and his relationship with Carrie.

Camilla Luddington (04:10) reflects:

"We are at this really, really fascinating and important episode... I wasn't really tuned into the level of work that she was doing. Like, I'm completely wowed every time I look back at these episodes."

---

Character Analysis

1. Carrie and Big's Complex Relationship

   The hosts dissect the nuanced relationship between Carrie and Mr. Big, highlighting Carrie's vulnerability and Big's aloof demeanor. Kristin Davis (04:55) remarks:

   "Mr. Big is not worth this effort."

   Camilla adds (08:20):

   "I just think that, oh.My God, I'm gonna say something that's so controversial... I think she has bad taste in men."

2. Miranda's New Romance

   The episode introduces an up-and-coming playwright, played by John Benjamin Hickey, who becomes Miranda's new love interest. The discussion touches upon the chemistry between Hickey and Miranda's character, emphasizing the depth and authenticity they bring to the screen.

Camilla (22:54) observes:

"His character... they're having sex, always in the same position, which I also think was a choice. Like, it's very missionary sex for Miranda."

---

Themes Explored

1. Vulnerability and Authenticity in Relationships

   The conversation delves into how Sex and the City portrayed women's search for fulfillment amidst vulnerability, using Carrie's interactions with Big as a focal point.

2. Evolution of Dating Dynamics

   The hosts contrast the 90s dating scene depicted in the show with today's landscape dominated by dating apps. They discuss the loss of "meet-cute" moments and the superficiality introduced by swiping culture.

Camilla (26:35) notes:

"We are missing that spice. It doesn't translate."

3. Self-Relationship and Personal Growth

   Emphasizing Michael Patrick King's influence, the discussion highlights the importance of self-love and understanding in building meaningful relationships.

Camilla (48:25) asserts:

"The ultimate relationship is your relationship with yourself."

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Personal Insights and Anecdotes

Camilla Luddington shares her personal journey with sobriety, drawing parallels between her life and her character Charlotte’s storyline. She discusses the challenges of portraying a character who is deeply invested in finding the right partner while maintaining personal equilibrium.

Camilla (19:42) recounts:

"I tried to get sober all through college... with the help of a therapist that I saw three times a week."

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Audience Reactions and Opinions

The episode addresses the polarized opinions surrounding the characters, particularly the divided "Team Big" and "Team Aiden" factions among fans. The hosts reflect on how these strong opinions reflect the show's impact on its audience.

Camilla (48:43) states:

"People are going to project onto you. They're going to project their own feelings, their own experiences... sometimes even if it's a negative opinion, the fact that it's a strong opinion, that's really what our job is."

---

Conclusions

Kristin Davis and Camilla Luddington wrap up their discussion by reaffirming the show's lasting relevance. They emphasize the aspirational aspects of the characters' lives and the ongoing evolution of relationships and self-understanding.

Camilla (47:41) concludes:

"I just think it's important to say that we weren't trying to be regular. We were portraying a little group... it was aspirational."

---

Future Episodes

The hosts tease upcoming episodes where they will continue to explore and recapitulate pivotal moments from Sex and the City, promising more in-depth analyses and personal reflections.

Kristin Davis (49:16) announces:

"We are going to make another podcast of Camilla and I recapping 'Oh Come All Ye Faithful,' the Season 1 finale."

---

Notable Quotes

• Kristin Davis (04:55): "Mr. Big is not worth this effort."
• Camilla Luddington (08:20): "I just think that she has bad taste in men."
• Camilla Luddington (48:25): "The ultimate relationship is your relationship with yourself."
• Camilla Luddington (47:41): "We weren't trying to be regular. We were portraying a little group... it was aspirational."

---

Conclusion

This episode of "Are You A Charlotte?" offers a rich and insightful exploration of the Sex and the City Season 1 finale, blending character analysis with personal anecdotes and broader themes. Kristin Davis and Camilla Luddington provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the show's impact, both in its time and in contemporary discussions about relationships and personal growth.

Transcript

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[Kristin Davis]

Kristin Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi.

[Camilla Luddington]

Hi everybody.

[Kristin Davis]

We are back. Here we are Camilla Luddington and I recapping the finale of season one. Oh come all ye faithful. Let's jump back in.

[Camilla Luddington]

All right, let's rewatch.

[Kristin Davis]

This was fun.

[Camilla Luddington]

We are at this really, really fascinating and important episode and I do remember people would come up to me and say like, you know, people sometimes just talk about their favorite episodes and people would say like, oh, like I love oh come all you faithful. And I'd be like, really? Because to me, the whole first season was a wash. I don't really remember that much of it.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah, it was a lot. We filmed the whole first season in three months. It was new. Yeah, it was fast, fast, fast. That's what I mean about guerrilla TV making. You know, it was just like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. You know, and I wasn't really in, in some ways. I, I obviously would read the scripts and was around and all. Like often we'd cross board locations. Right. So maybe Sarah would be doing a scene with Mr. Big and we'd be waiting to do, you know, a group scene or whatever. So I was around for a lot of it, but I, I wasn't really tuned into the level of, of work that she was doing. Like, I'm completely wowed every time I look back at these episodes. And partly I'm wowed because I'm like.

[Kristin Davis]

Mr. Big is not worth this effort.

[Camilla Luddington]

Like, I've said this a few times.

[Unknown]

But I'm like, I agree.

[Camilla Luddington]

Okay, thank you. Because with the lowest of now way. Did you. Okay, explain.

[Unknown]

I've never been a fan.

[Camilla Luddington]

Got it.

[Unknown]

I wasn't a super fan of Aiden either. I just, I just wasn't.

[Camilla Luddington]

You think no one's good enough for her?

[Unknown]

No, I definitely, I don't. I know. I don't think that at all. I just think that, oh My God, I'm gonna say something that's so controversial.

[Camilla Luddington]

Do it. Do it.

[Unknown]

I think she has bad taste in men. Carrie Bradshaw donut.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's okay. It's okay. Listen. Some of us have bad taste in men. Okay?

[Unknown]

Listen.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's the truth.

[Unknown]

Listen, I don't get big.

[Camilla Luddington]

Okay, we'll get into it.

[Unknown]

Because I have a lot of opinions about this episode.

[Kristin Davis]

Help me, help me.

[Camilla Luddington]

Because, I mean, through the learning. Now looking back, I also have a lot of opinions. And I didn't at the time. I just accepted it as normal. Because I think that I also experienced many of these things. Do you know?

[Unknown]

Well, yeah. I mean, there was definitely. I mean, isn't there a time where we all have bad taste in men? I think what bothers me about Carrie is that, like, she hung onto a man that was like. Obviously, just. I don't understand what the appeal was. Me neither.

[Camilla Luddington]

When I look back at the time, I completely did. You did. Right. And even when I'm watching this episode. Which we're out of order now. But I'm just gonna say. Cause it's on my mind, you know? Okay, so this is the episode where Carrie is doing some research about religion. And so she goes, and she's standing on this very picturesque summer York City street corner, and she happens to see. She's looking at a church. She happens to see Big walk out with his very beautiful mother. Good Lord. Yeah. Marion Seldes, an incredible actress. And she's like, oh, my God.

[Kristin Davis]

Big and his mother.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's almost like she didn't realize that.

[Kristin Davis]

He had a mother.

[Camilla Luddington]

You know, it's so interesting. And then she walks over, they chat, they have a weird conversation. Like, that's also part of what is amazing to me is like. Like, their dynamic is very fascinating. And I think a lot of it is because they're really good actors also. Right. So, like, there's so many layers.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Camilla Luddington]

Like, her face and all the things that she's doing.

[Unknown]

I know, but, like, I need. Okay, I'm gonna get canceled for this whole thing, you guys.

[Camilla Luddington]

You're not gonna get canceled.

[Unknown]

Carrie has no poker face. And it drives me crazy. So I. You kidding? I love you, Sarah. First off, to the camera. I love you. Carrie doesn't have a poker face.

[Camilla Luddington]

That's true.

[Unknown]

That's.

[Camilla Luddington]

And you're talking to someone who also doesn't totally know what you're saying.

[Unknown]

Well, and I also think that that was indeed. Listen, that's why, also to her credit, we loved the show. Because I could tell. I can Tell in every moment what she's thinking.

[Camilla Luddington]

I know.

[Unknown]

I feel like viewers felt like they were girlfriends with you, right?

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So I'm like, no, no. Her feelings are hurt. But as a girlfriend, I'm also like, don't show him that face.

[Camilla Luddington]

I know. Don't.

[Unknown]

He's so unavailable. Like. Like, don't look so hurt.

[Camilla Luddington]

Like, no, I know. She's so vulnerable, but that's why I was sucked.

[Unknown]

But as a girlfriend of hers, which I felt like I was a girlfriend of all of you, I was like, you don't give him that.

[Camilla Luddington]

I know. See, I need a you in my life. I know. I know. See, I'm not. I'm not. I don't know if I'm a poker.

[Kristin Davis]

I don't know if it's hard.

[Unknown]

Right. I just do Carrie to have one with Big.

[Camilla Luddington]

Well, because it's also interesting because also, as I was saying at the time, it never entered my mind I was Team Big, as was Charlotte. Now, is it possibly because Charlotte was Team Big that I never really considered it?

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Camilla Luddington]

Cause, you know, when you're playing a character, you don't realize it's, like, fully seeped into you. But, like, I never looked at it, like, harshly, like, hey, should I be Team Big? Never entered my mind. I just was Team Big. Right. Like, I never. I look back and I'm looking at him and his dynamic and how aloof he is and how hard she tries and how he's breadcrumbing, to use a modern term. Right. But we didn't have that term. And she's just everything. She's just trying so hard, and she doesn't have to. She's so fantastic. And I'm like, gosh, some of us should have said that to her. And I feel like Miranda tries a little bit, but not fully like you're saying, but, like, she somewhat tries to say, you know, maybe he's just not that great, or whatever. I don't know what she says at some point.

[Unknown]

Well, you're the optimist, too.

[Camilla Luddington]

I am.

[Unknown]

You're the optimist on the show. So you're gonna be like, yay, this is great.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah, it's a little bit. No, I don't question. I.

[Unknown]

This is why I'm a little Miranda.

[Camilla Luddington]

I'm a little like, no, yeah, I know, I know. But when she. So then she goes back, so she. She kind of basically says to him, like, I'd love to go to church with you and your mom.

[Kristin Davis]

And he's like, oh, no.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's just this private thing that I do with my mom.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

And then she and Miranda end up going to church and they're up in the balcony and they spy on them. I know. And I remember this. And I'm so uncomfortable looking at them in those hats. Right. But when she's looking down, I know there's. They stand out so much, Right. I'm like, this is not good stuff.

[Unknown]

You're trying to go incognit.

[Camilla Luddington]

And they look so glamorous.

[Unknown]

They're in bright colors.

[Camilla Luddington]

Bright colored straw hats. I know, it's not good spying at all. But then she looks down at him.

[Kristin Davis]

And she goes, there he was, the voiceover there. He was so tall and handsome. And I'm like, yeah, like I'm kind.

[Camilla Luddington]

Of with her on it still. And then I'm like, but no, he's very withholding.

[Unknown]

I just think that Sarah is so. And as Carrie too, with that. She's so gorgeous that I'm like, whatever about anybody else. A little bit. With any guy. A little bit.

[Camilla Luddington]

Maybe I.

[Unknown]

Maybe I'm realizing this moment. Maybe I don't think anyone's good enough for her. But I just. I'm not impressed with him.

[Camilla Luddington]

With him.

[Unknown]

I'm not impressed by him. No, I'm not impressed.

[Camilla Luddington]

I know, I know it's a hard thing to look back on and think it is because I also feel he.

[Unknown]

Doesn'T give her much at all.

[Camilla Luddington]

No. And I'm so glad. Anyway, let's get back before give everything away. We're gonna actually rewatch you guys. It's hard. It's hard because there's some big them. Look, there you are. You're very adorable.

[Unknown]

I'm gonna get canceled.

[Camilla Luddington]

You're not canceled.

[Unknown]

We're just saying. I'm saying it. I'm calling it what it is.

[Camilla Luddington]

Listen.

[Unknown]

That's true. And you know what?

[Camilla Luddington]

You're not alone. People have a lot of very strong feelings about Carrie. And I think they have a lot of very strong feelings about all of us. Let's be honest. And some of them are not always nice. But it's okay because to me, I have to remember, like, what are you. What are you trying to accomplish with art of any kind, a TV show, whatever you want to call it, you want to connect with people, right? So if you're connecting with people, people are going to project onto you. They're going to project their own feelings, their own experiences, their own thoughts, all of those things. So sometimes even if it's a negative opinion, the fact that it's a strong opinion. That's really what our job is.

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[Camilla Luddington]

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[Camilla Luddington]

We are rewatching this episode. This episode, O Come All Faithful, was directed by Matthew Harrison, who I also literally have no memory of. It's so interesting. A lot of these directors, I just don't know if I was just in like a no sleep induced haze.

[Unknown]

Probably, yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

I mean, I don't remember at all. Except I do think that this guy.

[Kristin Davis]

And I have to talk to Sir.

[Camilla Luddington]

Jessica to find out.

[Kristin Davis]

I think he was the one who.

[Camilla Luddington]

We sometimes still quote because they shoot at the Limelight. Did you realize that's what the club is that they go to in this episode? No. Do you remember the Limelight? It's still there. It's an old church.

[Unknown]

I probably wasn't. I mean, yeah, no, I would have been 19, so I'm not getting into any.

[Camilla Luddington]

I was already sober, so I wasn't going. But I would walk by it. I had an apartment in Gramercy Park. Not. Not chic like Carries in her current apartment. And I had a restaurant job in Chelsea, so I would walk by it every night in my 20s and I thought it was very cool. But since I was sober, I knew I should not go in there. And I did not go in there. But they filmed there, which was also very cool. And I went there even though I wasn't in the scene. But he was the one who. He would shout like, you're at the hottest club in town, dance. And sometimes in the middle of the night, if we're shooting, we're like, you're at the hottest club in town, dance. We still quote him.

[Kristin Davis]

But I think this is.

[Unknown]

Can I ask a personal question that you don't have to answer?

[Kristin Davis]

Go for it.

[Unknown]

It's interesting to me that you're sober and a lot of your show was all about the Cosmopolitan.

[Camilla Luddington]

It was tough. Yeah, it was tough.

[Unknown]

I'm curious if that was hard.

[Camilla Luddington]

It wasn't hard in the moment of it. Right. Cause Obviously, you're not drinking. And sometimes I had to play drunk, and that wasn't hard either. Do you know what I like?

[Unknown]

I.

[Camilla Luddington]

It was. I was already over the hump of it. You know, it's really hard when you become sober. But I tried to get sober all through college. I started drinking early. I started trying to quit early, and luckily it took, I would say, five years for me to quit because I was so young and no one around me was sober. Obviously, you know, in the 80s, in college, not sober people. But eventually I did with the help of a therapist that I saw, like, three times a week. I want to say thank you. Um, and then I just had. I had a boyfriend when I got out of college who was also sober. So that really helped solidify, you know, like, getting so incredible support.

[Unknown]

Congratulations. I mean, so amazing.

[Kristin Davis]

Thank you.

[Camilla Luddington]

So by the time we got to Sex and the City, which was. I was past 30, so I. And I had been doing yoga every day. I was thinking about being a yoga instructor. I had created a life that was about kind of health and recovery and emotional mental health and all of that. So I was pretty solidly sober by then, thank goodness. And it was more fun for me to think about being one of these.

[Unknown]

Cocktail, like, yeah, yeah, you could lean into.

[Camilla Luddington]

It was never cool like that. I was from South Carolina. I wore wild whale corduroy in college. Like, they were all like, what is with your style? You know, Like, I was not cool at all, so very much. But it is. It is interesting because you do have those crossover moments. It's not hard to act drinking, you know?

[Unknown]

No, I just. I was so curious because it became its own thing, you know, that for your show. Have you been asked that before?

[Camilla Luddington]

Not in that way. I wouldn't talk about it if I didn't want to talk about it. I mean, it's part of my life. And it is an interesting thing as an actor, because you have to navigate, you know, your own stuff.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't. Yeah. And it's. It's. It was just. It became a big part of it. I just remember thinking, like, the shoes. Yes, the shoes.

[Camilla Luddington]

Part of it. And the cosmos. It was really odd. That moment in time was really odd where we were kind of like, did we lose control of what the narrative is at this point? Because this is not our intention, you know?

[Unknown]

Yeah, no, no, no, no. I, I, I. By the way, I think that's so incredible.

[Camilla Luddington]

Thank you. So guess who wrote this one? Michael Patrick King. And when I watch Back I see so many Michael Patrick King themes, like the end, which we will get to. Which I loved. I love the end so much. So it also stars the incredible John Benjamin Hickey as the Catholic guy, Thomas John Anderson. Get it? John Benjamin Hickey. Thomas John Anderson. We already knew Hickey by this point. I think Cynthia and Hickey had already worked together. They ended up all also working together later on the C word, which was a really interesting show. Yeah. She played his love interest, I believe, on the C word, for like an arc, which is really good. Really good. And Marian Seldes as Mr. Big's mother, which they call Mrs. Big, which is hysterical. That's why I think I got confused about mother versus Mrs. I know, it's really funny. Okay, so we start with John Benjamin Hickey playing a playwright. He's a writer and a director also.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Camilla Luddington]

In the voiceover, they tell us that Miranda is dating an up and coming playwright. And remember at the end, they say that this is now. Yeah.

[Unknown]

He puts on a show.

[Camilla Luddington]

Exactly. It's in his show, which is so perfect and great. And also, I want to say Cynthia got all the amazing. Not all, but so many amazing theater actors because she obviously is a very, very prolific theater actress. And, you know, Hickey, that was like a big deal to have Hickey and so much fun. And he's.

[Unknown]

He was great.

[Camilla Luddington]

We're all so young. He's so incredibly good.

[Unknown]

He's so good.

[Camilla Luddington]

And sometimes those guest stars, it can.

[Kristin Davis]

Be hard to be good, you know?

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

No, no, no, no. But this is what I'm saying about our show. We. I mean, the people we cast are just. I mean, it's such a. They keep me on my toes.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's amazing. Absolutely. That's the best. I mean, Hickey definitely will keep you on your toes. Like Hickey. Hickey's like, for real. Like, for real. And the two of them are so good together. It's so funny. It's so funny to watch them. I obviously had not seen. Seen this in so long. And I mean, my first thought is, like, we're all so young. You know, once I get over that. We're all so young, our little baby faces. And then I'm like, Hickey's so funny because they're so close on his face.

[Unknown]

I know.

[Camilla Luddington]

The sweat.

[Unknown]

The sweat makeup's coming.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's so good, right? It's really funny and good. So basically, his character, they're having sex, always in the same position, which I also think was a choice. Like, it's very missionary sex for Miranda. Right. And he's saying, oh, God. Which is also connected. Right.

[Unknown]

You're connecting these from me.

[Camilla Luddington]

Right. So he's saying, oh, God, oh God, oh God. And then he comes and then he immediately, like two seconds of hugging, gets up and goes to take a shower.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Camilla Luddington]

That's the gist of the storyline. And Miranda is kind of left there, like, huh. You know, on her own, no cuddling.

[Kristin Davis]

Really kind of sad, you know, but.

[Camilla Luddington]

You know, it's unclear how serious they are. Whatever. But apparently they're having sex every night, which is also very. There's so many interesting things when I look back on it. Like, were we. I don't think so. Like, that prolific, you know? I don't think so. I think that the characters were discussed. Candice Bushnell, when she came on. I had a lot to say about this, as you would think.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah. She's like, oh, yeah, we were having so much sex in the 90s. I was like, were we? Because I don't think. I was obviously at work. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, kind of inhibited, whatever. But I mean, she remembers it as being quite frolicking compared to now, which.

[Kristin Davis]

I think is interesting.

[Unknown]

I think that's something we have discussed too. Like, really? Yes, yes, yes. But I did see another I study out recently that said that the reason that the newer generations are Gen Z and everyone is having less sex is because they're not leaving their house.

[Kristin Davis]

That's sad. That's what Candace said also.

[Unknown]

Oh, really?

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah, she did.

[Camilla Luddington]

I thought that was so. But this is where I don't understand. It is crazy and it's not good for humanity and scary for the kids. Right. Because I've got a 13 year old and you know, she doesn't have the social media. She has a phone, but she doesn't have the social media.

[Unknown]

That's tough.

[Camilla Luddington]

I know. Thank you. Yes, it's tough. I'm a tough mom. But the thing that I am confused about. Okay. Because I am not on the dating apps. I've never been on the dating apps. I don't fully understand the dating apps. But weren't they supposed to help everyone who's on the phone to meet people?

[Unknown]

Yes, but what we're missing is the Sex and the City Meet cutes.

[Camilla Luddington]

I know.

[Unknown]

In the bar.

[Camilla Luddington]

I know.

[Unknown]

So we're like, we're missing the spice.

[Camilla Luddington]

So it doesn't. It doesn't translate.

[Unknown]

Also, there's none of that, like, it doesn't translate. And I think that that whole tease of like, Do I like you? I don't know.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Unknown]

As soon as you swipe on someone you're giving, you're showing your cards.

[Camilla Luddington]

Is that how it works?

[Unknown]

Yeah. You have to say, like, obviously if you swipe on them, you're interested.

[Camilla Luddington]

Okay.

[Unknown]

So I think it's missing that, like, un.

[Camilla Luddington]

Uncertaintyful. Like. Yeah. Playful. It's not playful to swipe on someone. No.

[Unknown]

Because you're basically, like, checking them already off the bat, and then.

[Camilla Luddington]

Okay. And they know this.

[Unknown]

They know it.

[Camilla Luddington]

Okay, that's weird. That's so weird. Right? I don't really understand it, like, so much because Candace said she's on Raya, apparently.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Camilla Luddington]

She was like, no, no. Nothing ever works out from Raya. And I'm like, why not? And she said, because everyone's so busy. And then a younger friend, a guy friend showed me his Raya.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

And it was a lot of girls with a lot of very much clothing on.

[Unknown]

Oh, really?

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

I was like, whoa.

[Unknown]

I would have no. Thank God I'm married. I would have no game on those dating apps. I don't even understand how me with my 5,000 dogs.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh, hey, that's very attractive. Anyone who doesn't think that's attractive is messed up. Okay.

[Unknown]

In a turtleneck.

[Camilla Luddington]

But, you know, like, I don't know. You wouldn't play to the same group that this. This. These scantily clad girls were. But I don't think you'd want to do what. I mean, no.

[Unknown]

But I don't know if anyone would swipe.

[Camilla Luddington]

I think someone would. This is my naivete. Like, I like them. I don't know. Why wouldn't they be like, shouldn't the other people be on there, too? I don't know what's happening. Anyway, it's very confusing. It's okay.

[Unknown]

We're off.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's really fun. Okay, so we're back to the swinging, swinging 90s, where Miranda's having sex every night with the Catholic guy and he's showering, which is super interesting. Then she very adorably walks down the street with Carrie, and she says to her something like, I must have found the last religious guy in New York City. Which is really funny and, like, kind of so true. Like, you don't really hear people say, like, their religion. Out, out. Like, right away. Do you know what I mean? Sure. Like, it's interesting, right? And then she says that Catholic people should have to wear a sign so that, you know.

[Unknown]

I did laugh. I'm Catholic. I did laugh at that.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh, wow, that's funny. I'm glad you laughed because I was like, I'm not sure if that would be acceptable to say now. Do you know what I mean? I don't know.

[Unknown]

No, I mean, I thought it was funny.

[Camilla Luddington]

Okay, good. I'm glad you thought it was funny. Good, good, good, good, good. Okay. So then she says that he's a rational and logical guy, except for the religion. So she is not down with religion. Miranda is not. Not religious. Not cool with religion. It's kind of interesting. Yeah. It brings up this whole theme. The theme is about our relationships. The religion of the 90s. That's what Carrie says.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Camilla Luddington]

Her question of the episode, which I was like, wow, good.

[Kristin Davis]

I don't remember this.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's fascinating. Very fascinating.

[Kristin Davis]

Because really, that's still true. Don't you think?

[Camilla Luddington]

Like, people. I don't know if relationships are. But, like, you definitely.

[Unknown]

That's. I. I would have to think on that. Like, what is the religion of now?

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah, what is the religion of now? I don't know either. I think the religion of now might be, like, just trying to exist.

[Kristin Davis]

You know what I mean?

[Unknown]

I can't tell if that's, like, so depressing or not.

[Camilla Luddington]

I know. I mean, like, for instance, I got this question that I'm gonna answer later on. Q and A from, I assume, a younger person saying, you know, do you think that the depiction of single women in New York City is accurate or was accurate, which, you know, obviously not really. Like, it was a kind of upper echelon group of women. Right. And then they said something like, for instance, the fact that they don't have roommates, which is a very real, real issue now. Like, fine. And I also had many roommates. You know what I'm saying?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Camilla Luddington]

Whether that was comfortable or not comfortable, it was just a necessity. But that's not really who we were portraying. We were portraying a little group. Like Candice was telling me at one point when she was writing the column before the book was published, she was living in a doorman building. Like, that's how well she was doing. Obviously. Different time, right? Like, it's the different time.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

It wouldn't be.

[Unknown]

There was no doorman anywhere near.

[Camilla Luddington]

No, exactly.

[Unknown]

Me neither.

[Camilla Luddington]

But it was an upper echelon of. Sure. But that's what.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that's what the show was.

[Camilla Luddington]

Right. Of.

[Unknown]

I also feel like watching it, I was living vicariously through you guys.

[Camilla Luddington]

Right. It was aspirational.

[Unknown]

Yes, yes.

[Camilla Luddington]

And I mean, we were never trying to be regular, like, who runs around the city? They didn't want to be regular. Right, Right. Right. But I mean, I just think it's important to say that.

[Unknown]

Okay.

Yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah. You know, like we weren't, I don't think we were making an effort to, to just be regular.

[Unknown]

No.

[Camilla Luddington]

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Just. Just wanted to say that.

[Kristin Davis]

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[Unknown]

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Camilla Luddington]

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Unknown]

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[Camilla Luddington]

Okay, so we're back. We're back now. So Carrie. That's her. She's now gonna investigate religion, which is super fascinating. This is why she goes to this cutest little corner to look at that cute, cute, cute church. Some of the churches in New York are so beautiful.

[Unknown]

They are beautiful.

[Camilla Luddington]

So, so beautiful. And she's saying that everyone's very fashionable. And she named some fashion designers, which is kind of funny, I think. She literally says Escada, which is so adorably 90s, right?

[Kristin Davis]

80S and 90s.

[Camilla Luddington]

And then she sees Mr. Big and his mom, and she's shocked, obviously. And, of course, Big's mother is so beautiful and statuesque, and he's so kind of doting on her, which I also find really interesting. And I think that's attractive to Carrie, though she doesn't say it, though. It is kind of could be its own episode, right? Of like, is that a good thing.

[Kristin Davis]

Or a bad thing?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Kristin Davis]

You know what I mean?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

So she's all shocked. And then they have the crazy, crazy conversation on the corner. And basically Big comes over. He puts his cab, his mom in the cab. He comes over and he says, yeah, I take my mom to church every Sunday. And she's like, oh, why didn't I know that? And he says, well, you write on Sundays. So I just, you know, that's what I do. That's our Sunday thing. And she's like, well, you know, I would love to go to church. And, you know, we've never talked about it or whatever. And he says something like, oh, that's just my thing I do with my mom, you know? And he's kind of his evasive self, and she has all the feelings go across her face. That's what I'm saying. He said, yes, but I love that. I love that.

[Unknown]

I love it as a viewer because it lets us know. But as a girlfriend, that's what I'm like.

[Camilla Luddington]

For me, I love it because a. She's just so complex in a way, right? Because, like. Like, you can see the thoughts literally cross. Like. Yeah, I'm saying, like, literally, which is not easy. To do as an actor, you know?

[Unknown]

No, it's phenomenal. Yeah. Choice is phenomenal.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

But because he's giving so little. I want her to give little.

[Camilla Luddington]

I get it. Well, she does.

[Kristin Davis]

Do you remember in that scene she's.

[Camilla Luddington]

Kind of, you know, she's looking at him in that way that she does. Yeah.

[Unknown]

And then she kind of walks back a little.

[Camilla Luddington]

She's like, okay. Cause he's like, let's go get a cup of coffee.

[Unknown]

That's true.

[Camilla Luddington]

Right?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Camilla Luddington]

I think that's her realizing I've got to pull back. And that's the other thing that I think about their relationship. Even from like maybe the first or second episode where they have all those run ins but they don't go on a date. And then they're standing at the front in the back of a park to meet. It's like all. They're kind of like cross signals. And then she sees him on the street and she leans over and does his crossword puzzle. Word. She tells him what it is.

[Unknown]

Oh, that's.

[Camilla Luddington]

I like that. And then she walks away. Like, she does have some game, as you would say.

[Unknown]

She definitely has game.

[Camilla Luddington]

Right. But it's.

[Unknown]

And I think she has more game with other people.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh, 100%.

[Unknown]

Something is disarming for her about Big.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Unknown]

But that's, that's, that's, that's life.

[Camilla Luddington]

Exactly.

[Unknown]

And also I'm her best friend watching from my couch.

[Camilla Luddington]

And you want to protect her. Absolutely. Absolutely. No, I agree. Well, I'm just. My feeling is I'm mad at Big. I'm mad at Big.

[Unknown]

Oh, I'm mad about Big.

Yes.

[Camilla Luddington]

Because look at her face. Just give her what she wants. Yeah. Give her what she wants. Always.

[Kristin Davis]

My God.

[Camilla Luddington]

I know, I know. And he definitely doesn't deserve her. And I'm so happy what happens in this episode. But we're not there yet, so let's keep going. So then they go to the. They.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh.

[Camilla Luddington]

And I'm there. I'm at a bar with them, which is cool. Yeah. And of course, I say a man who cares about his mother makes a wonderful husband. This is when I really start with the husband stuff. Okay. Next season. Oh, my God. It's literally all I talk about for a very long time. And this is the seed of it, this episode. Who we. I had some flashbacks of that. I mean, because I don't personally share this with Charlotte. Right. So I had to do some acting.

[Unknown]

All right, well, then you are fantastic. Because it's a big part of her.

[Camilla Luddington]

Thank you. I know. I had to do so many substitutions and things. But also, I'd grown up in the south, surrounded by this. Yeah, surrounded by this. Culturally. Right.

[Unknown]

Oh, I fully believed you.

[Camilla Luddington]

Thank you. Thank you so much. Sometimes not yet. It wasn't that hard this time. But later on when I give those long speeches that would be like a whole page of me, just like about getting married. Oh, wow. I would dread those days.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Camilla Luddington]

I'd just be like, can I do it?

[Kristin Davis]

How am I gonna make it interesting? What am I gonna do?

[Camilla Luddington]

How? What am I gonna plug in on that day that's gonna make it work?

[Unknown]

It's real for so many people.

[Camilla Luddington]

It is.

[Unknown]

And you were able to.

[Camilla Luddington]

I had to just go make it. I think the thing that was hard for me was the didacticness, or however I should say that word of it. Like the very laser focus of Charlotte, which. I love that about her, that she was that way. And I love what happened, which was that it didn't look how she thought it would. It didn't pan out, thank God. Right. And she got the pie in the face in many different ways and all of that. Thank God. But it's hard to play a character like that, you know, you really have to focus on how to make it believable and grounded in some way. But anyway, we're not quite there yet. Now I'm just like, well, he'd make a great husband. And then I end up going to a psychic to try to get someone to tell me that I will in fact get what I want, which no one does. But I love it. It's all good. So we're there. Oh, oh.

[Unknown]

Have you ever been to a psychic?

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh, yeah. Oh, you have, have you not?

[Unknown]

I haven't been to a Tarot card, no. I've never been to a psychic. Oh. I've never been to a site. Really?

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh, yeah.

[Unknown]

I don't know if I would want to know.

[Camilla Luddington]

They don't really tell you. Really?

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Camilla Luddington]

One time I went to the Apple store in Santa Monica. Have you ever been to that one? Yeah, of course.

[Unknown]

Oh, my God, the Promenade.

[Camilla Luddington]

It's way busy, right?

[Unknown]

Yes, very busy.

[Camilla Luddington]

And this is one of those days where I had an appointment. But I mean, it was wall to wall people pre Covid and like there was a girl there with a basket with a cat in it. Like, it was so la. She brought her cat to Apple. Right. It was bizarre. Not on a leash or anything in a basket. So I'm like, wow, this is like a show. So I'm sitting, waiting for my appointment. And there's this woman across from me, and she's got some tarot cards out. She looks at me, I'm like, oh, God.

[Kristin Davis]

She goes, I'm going to do your cards. And I'm like, okay.

[Camilla Luddington]

She does. And they. It was very positive. But, I mean, what a random LA thing, right? You're at the Apple Store waiting, and I don't think she recognized me. I could be wrong. I don't know. She didn't say anything, but, like, it was very. I remember it being like.

[Kristin Davis]

I feel like, okay, okay, okay.

[Camilla Luddington]

So good. It's good.

[Kristin Davis]

We're okay.

[Camilla Luddington]

You know what I mean? Like, it was a positive thing. But a lady at the. At the Apple Store, I don't know. But that was positive. So whatever had happened between those. Probably 20 years. Yes, because one was in my 20s, one I was probably in my 40s, maybe in my 50s. I don't have no idea. But, you know, so I'm open to that stuff, but I wouldn't hang my hat on it.

[Kristin Davis]

You know what I'm saying?

[Unknown]

No, no. The only time that that's happened to me, sort of in that way, is I was going into Michael's. Because I live in Michael's, basically.

[Camilla Luddington]

I like.

[Unknown]

I love a crafting.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh, yeah.

[Unknown]

And I was walking in and this girl stopped me and she goes, hey, you're. You're gonna find the one soon and you're gonna get married. And I was like, oh, my God. And then my husband got out the car, and I was like, I'm gonna find the one soon.

[Camilla Luddington]

I don't know if it's.

[Unknown]

I don't know if it's you, but I'm getting married.

[Camilla Luddington]

That's really excellent.

[Kristin Davis]

That's really, really good.

[Camilla Luddington]

I mean, that's really good.

[Unknown]

And it kept my husband on his toes. Good on him.

[Camilla Luddington]

Because one could have been someone else.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It could have gone around the world.

[Camilla Luddington]

You never know. And it's funny that you say that because there is a conversation in this episode about the one Carrie really desperately wants big to tell her. Oh, that she's right. The one. And this carries through for literally our entire show and movies. So what do you think of that?

[Unknown]

Well, it's funny because when I stopped the episode, it flipped to a scene. You know how like, it auto plays a scene from the future. And it was. It was him, maybe an engagement party to the new girl. And she says, can you tell me why it wasn't me? And I think she's asking too many questions. Oh, because I Think you know the answer?

[Kristin Davis]

What is the answer?

[Unknown]

I don't know the answer, but I think Carrie. No, but I think you know, maybe not why you aren't the one, but I think you can tell when someone's one foot in and one foot out, which is to me what Big was for so long.

[Camilla Luddington]

I guess you're right. But then if you really want to talk about was she the one? She is the one. Whether he could be with that or not be with that would be. See, but this is why I didn't ever think about him twice in the beginning.

[Unknown]

It is so hard for me because I'm such a fan of the show. So I feel like, yes, she ended up being his one.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yes.

[Unknown]

But I don't know if he was enough. He's enough for anyone. Does that make sense?

[Camilla Luddington]

You're saying that he shouldn't have been her one?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Camilla Luddington]

Then really, can you control this?

[Unknown]

No, you can't.

[Camilla Luddington]

Right. But then do you believe in the one? Is my question.

[Unknown]

I do.

[Camilla Luddington]

You do?

[Unknown]

I think you can have the one more than once, though. I think the one as a number is wrong.

[Camilla Luddington]

Got it, got it, got it, got it.

[Unknown]

But I feel like there is the one in these period of time. Yes, you have that in your. In your period of time in your life. There's the one, and then there can be another one.

[Camilla Luddington]

Good. I think I definitely feel that. I feel like there's different people that bring different things to you, you know, and it might be about the time, of course, of your life, or it might be about what you need at that point, or it might be about what you're ready for at that point.

[Unknown]

Because people's partners can pass away and then they can find love again. So obviously that has to be mean that there's more than one person. I just don't. I didn't want Big to be the one for Carrie is what I'm getting at.

[Camilla Luddington]

Got it, got it. But you also weren't Team Aiden.

[Unknown]

I wasn't. I don't know if she's found the guy yet.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh, well, that's good. That's good for our new season. Yeah, I've been just like that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

And the thing that I love about Carrie is that even though she definitely at this point back in first season, she does have this need to be chosen by Big.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Camilla Luddington]

And I think the reason that she seems to have the need to be chosen by Big, though. I would love to hear Sir Jessica's thoughts on this. Cause I never. We never talked about any of this. Stuff, you know what I mean?

[Unknown]

Like, I mean.

[Camilla Luddington]

Cause also it's fictional. Right? But you know, like, you're just in it, trying to do it. Yeah, but like, you know, there's an episode early on where Justin Theroux plays this writer who's kind of awful. All the men are kind of awful. Right. But like, she just. Just toys with them. She just like, they're like little kittens or whatever. She's like, oh, he's cute. You know, she just flicks them away. Do you know what I mean? But Big, for whatever reason, because it's her kryptonite. Yes. Yes, definitely.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yes. So. So to me, that is interesting. And I do feel like it does seem true in life that sometimes we chase what is unobtainable. And I think that's true for men and women. Not just for women.

[Unknown]

I also think the great love of all of the characters lives are each other.

[Camilla Luddington]

Right.

[Unknown]

Like, isn't that sort of the story?

[Camilla Luddington]

I do think. I mean, we have that great scene later on where I say, couldn't we all just be each other's soul mates? And I do think that that's. I feel like that's absolutely true. But I also feel it's also this thing that Michael Patrick talks about, which is your own relationship with yourself. Like, that you wouldn't need someone else to say, I choose you.

[Unknown]

Yes. Yes, I agree.

[Camilla Luddington]

Yeah. And that. That's the ultimate.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Camilla Luddington]

The ultimate relationship is your relationship with yourself.

[Unknown]

Of course.

[Camilla Luddington]

Y. Which obviously this is the very, very beginnings of our characters. Right. And so we're not that evolved into it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

That evolution hasn't happened yet.

[Camilla Luddington]

Right. But it's super interesting to watch her in this because. So she. We're gonna rewatch more.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Camilla Luddington]

Okay. It's fun to talk about the big topics. Right. That's why I did the podcast. Talk about the big topics.

[Unknown]

I think people, like, as polarized by Big and Carrie as I am.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes, they are.

[Unknown]

Okay, so this is very common.

[Camilla Luddington]

We released this trailer and people were like, team Aiden. And then other people were like, it better work out with Aiden. And then other people, not more Aiden. And then other people were like, we're still mad what you did to Big. I mean, people still have a lot of feelings. Yes. All right, so we are going to make another podcast of Camila and I recapping Okamoyi Faithful, the season one finale.

[Kristin Davis]

So check back in later this week. Bye, everybody.

[Unknown]

This podcast is supported by BetterHelp, offering licensed therapists you can connect with via video phone or chat here's BetterHelp head of clinical operations Hesu Jo discussing who can benefit from therapy I think a.

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Unknown]

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[Unknown]

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