The Drama Continues... Viagra, Miranda and Steve's Dirty Laundry... (S3 E7 "Drama Queens")

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Are You A Charlotte?

Episode: The Drama Continues... Viagra, Miranda, and Steve's Dirty Laundry... (S3 E7 "Drama Queens")

Host: Kristin Davis
Date: December 12, 2025
Guests: Unnamed Co-hosts (B, C); references to Sophia Bush (B) as main guest in later discussion

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into Sex and the City Season 3, Episode 7 ("Drama Queens"), using the characters’ storylines as a springboard for deeper reflections on relationships, personal growth, societal conditioning, and the ongoing evolution of conversations about women and sexuality. Host Kristin Davis (who played Charlotte York) and her guest (Sophia Bush, as later identified) engage in a heartfelt, honest, and humor-tinged exploration of the episode’s memorable moments – with forays into behind-the-scenes anecdotes, modern parallels, and real-life resonance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Carrie, Big, and Relationship Messiness

Timestamps: [03:58]–[07:30]

• Kristin and Sophia critique Big’s erratic behavior, likening it to manipulative movie “bad boys.”
  • “Big, you're a mess and you need to leave her alone.” – Kristin [03:58]
• They unpack the adult immaturity both Big and Carrie display, emphasizing the value of emotional honesty.
  • “The mess is so unnecessary.” – Sophia [05:28]
• Carrie’s emotional “spiral” after her fallout with Aidan is highlighted as true-to-life vulnerability many women relate to.
  • “She’s learning a lesson in real time and being honest about the lesson.” – Sophia [07:14]

2. Charlotte’s Lipstick Skirt & Meeting Trey

Timestamps: [07:31]–[14:37]

• Kristin reveals behind-the-scenes stories about Charlotte’s outfits, including her determination to wear the iconic Prada “lipstick skirt”—tracking it down herself for authenticity.
  • “I picked that lipstick skirt… I was already my pradaholic self, and I had a discount at Prada.” – Kristin [10:06]
• They discuss the casting and character trajectory of Trey, who was initially meant to be a small, “boring” part, but actor Kyle MacLachlan’s charisma changed that.
  • “He was supposed to also be boring in regular life. But he just couldn’t pull that off because he was him. And I was just like, this guy can’t leave.” – Kristin [14:22]

3. Lessons of Cul-de-sacs & Personal Fulfillment

Timestamps: [14:37]–[19:50]

• The “cul-de-sac” metaphor is used to discuss how you sometimes need to “drive to the end of the street” to realize something isn’t right for you.
  • “You can’t know that you’re in a cul de sac until you drive to the end of the street and realize you can’t get out unless you turn around.” – Sophia [15:13]
• They reflect on conditioning—especially for women—to want or pursue things because of societal expectation, not genuine self-desire.
  • “It’s very hard to separate your internal desires…from your conditioning.” – Kristin [16:43]

4. Compromise vs. Compromising Yourself

Timestamps: [19:50]–[22:27]

• The distinction between healthy compromise and self-betrayal is made, especially for women socialized to please others at their own expense.
  • “There’s a difference between compromising and compromising yourself.” – Sophia [19:50]
• Kristin shares her own experience with being asked to give up acting for a relationship, and advice from Julianne Moore that helped her stay true to herself.
  • “She said, ‘Don’t do it…they can never get back in.’” – Kristin (about Julianne Moore’s advice) [21:40]

5. Samantha, Viagra, & Women’s Sexual Health

Timestamps: [28:44]–[32:48]

• The plot point of Samantha taking Viagra sparks discussion about real-life “female Viagra,” the struggle to gain legitimacy for women’s sexual health in medicine, and cultural double standards.
  • “Viagra had been given emergency clearance by the FDA…it went through FDA clearance in six months.” – Sophia [29:34]
  • “What do we want a bunch of horny women running around for?” (a dismissive lawmaker’s quote shared via Sophia) [30:37]
• Sophia discusses her friend Cindy Eckert’s invention of Addyi (the “pink pill”) and the gendered obstacles to recognition and research, offering contemporary context to the episode’s comedic but pointed storyline.

6. Miranda, Steve, and the “Skidmark” Episode

Timestamps: [33:06]–[38:25]

• They revisit one of SATC’s most infamous “overshare” moments—Miranda finding skid marks in Steve’s laundry—and what it reveals about gendered labor, adulthood, and intimacy.
  • “My thought was, why isn’t he doing the laundry?” – Kristin [34:51]
• Sophia draws parallels to real women’s experiences feeling responsible for their partner’s emotional and physical needs, and the challenge of raising empathetic sons versus daughters.
• Intimacy’s limits are explored—at what point does closeness risk “canceling itself out”?
  • “When does intimacy go so far that it cancels the intimacy out?” – Sophia [38:10]

7. Real-Life Parallels: Queerness, Identity, and Growth

Timestamps: [38:25]–[53:06]

• Kristin asks Sophia about her experience moving from a heterosexual relationship to a queer one, paralleling Miranda’s controversial plot in “And Just Like That.”
• Sophia deconstructs sexuality labels, biphobia, and the beauty and challenges of recognizing one’s true self later in life.
  • “It was less for me about gender…Whoever is my person is my person.” – Sophia [47:55]
  • “As hard as it was to say we’ve made a mistake, it’s harder to stay in a life that stifles your growth.” – Sophia [52:40]
• The importance of openness to life’s changes and self-discovery is stressed.
  • “The world is large and you don’t need to limit yourself.” – Kristin [53:35]

8. Which Character Are You?

Timestamps: [53:56]–[57:38]

• In the classic “Are You a Charlotte?” question, Sophia admits to producing her own life plans a la Charlotte and sees herself in Miranda as well.
  • “I made a plan…You can get lost in that.” – Sophia [54:09]
• Both reflect on how their affinity to characters has shifted with age and experience.

9. What’s Next for Sophia Bush

Timestamps: [57:48]–[58:58]

• She teases current work: “Work in Progress” podcast (recent guests: VP Kamala Harris, Monica Lewinsky), and her role as Dr. Cass Beckman on “Grey’s Anatomy.”
• Expresses joy at being able to have rich, in-depth conversations in podcasting.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

“You can’t know that you’re in a cul de sac until you drive to the end of the street and realize you can’t get out unless you turn around.”
— Sophia Bush [15:13]

“There’s a difference between compromising and compromising yourself.”
— Sophia Bush [19:50]

“Do you feel miserable? Do you feel hollow?...There’s really no amount of work you can do on yourself that’s gonna fix feeling hollow.”
— Kristin Davis [17:20]

“As hard as it was to say we’ve made a mistake, it’s harder to stay in a life that stifles your growth.”
— Sophia Bush [52:40]

“We are conditioned as women to compromise to the point of compromising ourselves.”
— Sophia Bush [20:06]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Carrie & Big’s Messiness: [03:58]–[07:30]
• Charlotte’s Skirt & Trey Casting: [07:31]–[14:37]
• Cul-de-sac/Life Lessons: [14:37]–[19:50]
• Women & Compromise: [19:50]–[22:27]
• Samantha & Viagra: [28:44]–[32:48]
• Miranda & Steve/Dirty Laundry: [33:06]–[38:25]
• Real-life Queerness/Identity: [38:25]–[53:06]
• Which Character Are You: [53:56]–[57:38]
• Sophia Bush’s Current Projects: [57:48]–[58:58]

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Tone & Style

The conversation is warm, funny, and authentic, blending nostalgia for “Sex and the City”’s groundbreaking storytelling with meaningful explorations of how its themes still resonate. Kristin and Sophia speak candidly about personal and societal growth, always with a thread of optimism. The podcast stays true to the voice of its hosts—thoughtful, honest, and a little bit glamorous.

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This summary covers all major content, offering both a roadmap to the episode and a rich, standalone resource for new or returning fans.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[C]

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[A]

Hi, I'm Kristin Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Welcome back everybody to are you a Charlotte? Part 2. Thanks for joining us. Here we go. So Carrie struggles mightily, sees Big through the binoculars. Big sees her also. I just feel so angry at Big through this whole phase. I'm just like, big, you're a mess and you need to leave her alone.

[B]

A mess, A mess.

[A]

And that poor wife.

[B]

You know who he reminds me of? He reminds me of Jasper in the holiday.

[A]

Which one is Jasper?

[B]

Jude. Jasper is the man who comes to see Kate Winslet when she's on her Christmas holiday in la.

[A]

Right. Is it Jude or the other?

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Who is it?

[B]

No, he's a. I don't know, some English because it's Jack Black and Jude Law.

[A]

Rufus Sewell. Rufus. Oh, incredible actor. Yes.

[B]

And he is like, I've just missed you and let's go on holiday and this, that, and the other. And then she's like, wait, are you still engaged to be married? And he's like, oh, I just wish you could understand how hard this all is for me. I'm so confused. I just watched it last weekend.

[A]

Oh, my God. In my moment, it's very similar.

[B]

I watch it like four times every Christmas.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But my God, it's like you are with Natasha. You chose Natasha. Leave Carrie alone. And by the way, if you think you made a mistake, then leave that woman and apologize and then move on.

[A]

He's gonna do it, but he's gonna do it in the worst possible messy.

[B]

Messy Way, I just can't understand it.

[A]

It's like, say the thing and go, totally.

[B]

The mess is so unnecessary.

[A]

I agree. But I also feel they're not. They're only as mature as they are, right?

[B]

They can't.

[A]

You know what I mean? And Big doesn't really get as much excuse cause he's older and whatever. But like, Carrie, you know, and this is what I love about Carrie. So the thing that I love. So relate to all of it, right? So she rushes out of the opera, and then she tries to call Aiden, and he. She gets the voicemail. And, you know, this is before texting, really. We weren't really texting a lot, right? So then she hasn't heard from him for two days. And she fully spins out. Because previously they'd been, like, joined at the hip, right? That phase of, like the honeymoon of.

[B]

The relationship, sleeping over every night, right?

[A]

And now she's just spinning, spinning, spinning. And you feel so bad for her. Like, that's about her own, you know, development and, like, what she can't quite be with, right? And so then she thinks she's. She says to him, like, we just were too available to each other, which I kind of get, right? Like when you're just totally with someone, kind of taking them for granted. And she thinks, like, I just need a little space. Whatever. She gets a little space. And then he doesn't answer the phone. And she's like, oh, what did I do? I totally, totally relate. Okay, wait. And then. Wait. In the very end, she goes to see him with his adorable little parents.

[B]

Cute. Oh, my God, they're so cute.

[A]

Which is so rare. We never see parents in our show. Never ever.

[B]

You know what I like about that moment? She goes. And instead of going in the knock on the window.

[A]

And she gives him choice.

[B]

She gives him the choice. And she's really vulnerable. And she runs him through her whole spin.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She doesn't try to hide it. She doesn't play it cool.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She's like, I thought this, and then I thought this, and then I thought this, and then I got scared and then I wasn't sure. And so now I'm here, and if you don't want me to be here, I'll leave. Yes.

[A]

It's amazing.

[B]

It's. It is, actually. You're right. It. She's learning a lesson in real time and being honest about the lesson, right? And when she says, I flipped my stomach all by myself.

[A]

That's so good. That's so good.

[B]

It's a big lesson.

[A]

So, so Good. So, so good. So here, let's go to Charlotte for a second, because Charlotte. Oh, Charlotte, Charlotte, Charlotte. She is a funny girl. Sometimes, you know, I look back at her, and I'm just like, wow. I remember it, but I don't remember all of it. Do you know what I mean? Like, I didn't. I remember meeting Kyle Trey, but I didn't remember that. I go to the bar where I.

[B]

Think Dennis is there.

[A]

Yes. I think Phil, the single guy's gonna be there, but the married guy's gonna be there. And I'm like, what? It's so funny to me.

[B]

And by the way, he's him and big. Same.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it is that thing. And it was so funny because as soon as you went to dinner with them, I was like, oh, my God, it's Dennis. Because I remember the storyline, and I remember thinking how crazy it was, you know, watching the show in college, because it was. It was that, like, fall of 2000 that Brenna and I lived on the fifth floor together at USC, and we started watching the show and caught up, and then we'd watch it every weekend when the episodes would air. And I remember being like, that's insane. No one would ever do that. And then in my 30s, being like, oh, that's happened. I've seen this happen. I've had it happen. My friends have had this happen. Like, men are insane.

[A]

It's true. And, oh, my God.

[B]

Like, what is wrong with you guys? And so there was something so crazy about watching the episode ahead of this and going, oh, it's Jenna Snail. And then as an actor, I watched every little choice he made, and I was like, there it is. There it is. It's like the Sixth Sense when, you know, you go back and watch the movie and you see it everywhere.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

And I knew, and I was like. Then in my head, I was like, what does she do? Does she hit him with her purse? I feel like I push him or.

[A]

Do I slap him?

[B]

What do I do?

[A]

Which is so crazy.

[B]

Oh, I love it.

[A]

I generally, as an actor, I hate to slap people, because I feel like I know how to do it. I went to, you know, acting school, but I feel like in life, how often do you slap or be slapped?

[B]

It's very rare, right? I've slapped one person.

[A]

I don't think in life, I've ever slapped anyone that I can think of right now. Certainly not since I've been sober.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Touche.

[A]

Yeah. But people write it into film and TV kind of a fair amount And I'm always like, does it need to be that? But this I thought was great because also, she's Charlotte. Right. She doesn't see this coming. No. One little bit.

[B]

And it feels like you really, like, tried to slap some sense into it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Literal frame.

[A]

Right. Like, I liked the way I did it because it was like, you're just. You'd snap out of it. It was a snap out of it share type moment. Yes. Right. Which is. She does. That might be the best slap ever. Anyway, then this was the great part, because all I remember about this was that my goal was to get to falling in the street. I picked that lipstick skirt. I was on the plane home to la. I was looking through the magazines like we used to do, you know, the paper magazines. And I saw the Prada dad with a Prada lipstick skirt. And I called Pat. You know, the plan hadn't taken off yet. I called Pat and I was like, pat, I need to get this Prada lipstick skirt. She goes, oh, darling, I don't think we could get it. You know, she. Have you ever. Do you ever meet.

[B]

I've never met her.

[A]

That has a very deep voice, you know, it's like, ah, I can't even really do it justice. She says, we have to have five of them because you. Whenever you're gonna fall into a street that's wet because they have to wet everything down, right? You don't know what's gonna happen. So she's like, we have to find five of them. I don't know if we can. I said, I'll go look. Because at that point, I was already my pradaholic self, and I had a discount at Prada. No. Yes. I still have it. Knock the wood. Okay. Knock the wood, man. I know. It's good. It's so good. It's so good. And so I went. I think I might have gone in LA and New York. And then they had to call around and try to find them, like, through Europe and down to the Wire. We didn't know if we'd have enough. No. Yes.

[B]

Can I tell you something amazing?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I have one.

[C]

What?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We should wear them together.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I have it. You have the lipstick? Yes.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

It was a thrilling acquisition for my little vintage collection.

[A]

Good job. And you.

[B]

It's like, safe, gorgeous.

[A]

Good. Yeah. Cause they're not. You can never find them.

[B]

No. I feel so lucky to have it. It's such an iconic piece. And when we were solidifying today's date, I was like, no, I'm Already in LA and it's at home in New York. Oh, no. I'm so sad about it.

[A]

We know each other has it.

[B]

We're in a wonderful thing.

[A]

I remember at the wrap party of this season because we'd had five and I made sure to get one right. One of Pat's friends came up and said, I'm so excited. I got a lipstick skirt. I'm like, what? I was so mad. Like, it's like, wait, what? Who?

[B]

How can I?

[A]

Wow.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

I know. But I'm sure she's enjoying it anyway. When I fell in the street we only needed one. You only needed one? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing ripped, nothing tore. It was all fine. That bag. I have a little Prada like bowling bag. I feel like they called it. It's black and white. That was borrowed from Prada. The shirt I believe I have is like just a very basic. I think the one I'm wearing there is just a very basic, like three quarter leaf length thing. I think I still have the sleeve length. I think I still have that too. But I fall and adorable, adorable. Kyle is there to help me up.

[B]

Very knight in shining armor.

[A]

I know. And just so handsome. But it's also so funny because were very. The way they filmed it, I'm sure it was 5am I love like that we shot on Super 16. So like when the street lights go like wacky. That's why. Right. Because it's like old film, you know, beautiful.

[B]

You get the haze and the pinwheel.

[A]

Exactly. So beautiful. And the way they pan around. I mean. And he just could not have been more perfect. Obviously. Like a dream come true. A dream come true. And then I've said this many times, but I'm gonna say this in the idea was that he was only gonna do five episodes.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yes. The idea was that he was only gonna do five.

[B]

I didn't know that.

[A]

Yes. And that he. Trey was going to be very, very boring. And that all the friends would be like, oh, God, you know, who's gonna talk to Trey? But he was Kyle. And he couldn't. It wasn't that boring. He's so yummy beyond and so interesting. And he does things with such a very subtle twist. And they knew that he was gonna have a messed up relationship with his to be some problems in the bedroom. But also he was supposed to also be boring in regular life. But he just couldn't pull that part off because he was him. And I was just like, this guy can't leave.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

And everyone else felt the same way, so he stayed, thank goodness. And we. We did many different things, but obviously he had to go eventually, which was sad, but needed to happen so that Harry could come and so that Charlotte could learn. Yes, yes, yes, indeed. Now. Yes.

[B]

Well, to. To allow you to build the life you think you want and. And realize it's not for you. That's a profound lesson.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And having been through that now as an adult, I. I wish it had. I wish the gravity of it had hit me sooner as a viewer. Yeah.

[A]

But I also feel like you don't. You can't. You can watch something and feel like, oh, that's amazing. And. But until you go through it, if you need to go through that, there's nothing. There's no substitute.

[B]

You really. You can't learn a lesson until you learn it. And the thing that I think I've realized, and it feels very true for your story as Charlotte, is no matter what fear you feel, you can usually explain something away or work on it or whatever. You can't know that you're in a cul de sac until you drive to the end of the street and realize you can't get out unless you turn around.

[A]

That's true for sure. Yeah.

[B]

And I think there are moments where winding up on a cul de sac in your life is really meant to teach you something. And I think Charlotte had that. I know I had that. I definitely. I can see that character journey for women I've played on screen as well. And I. Yeah, I think it rings so true for so many people because so many of us have versions of that, period.

[A]

I agree. Yeah. I mean, that's well put. And I think it's interesting because you don't necessarily know that you don't want to be on that cul de sac till you're fully, fully on it. Right. Because some people want to be on a cul de sac. You know, some people get there, it's harder than they might have thought, but they do think all the things like, I need to work on myself. I need to. Whatever it is. Right. And that if that is the thing that they really, really want, then they do need to figure out a way to make that work out, I guess. But then also, sometimes that is not what you really want. And that's the key, I think, to be most in. Tuned with yourself, truly, deeply about that, you know, which is not easy. I don't think that's easy. I also think that conditioning. It's very hard to separate your internal desires. From your conditioning. Because you've been conditioned since the day you were born. Well.

[B]

And you think that's what you want? Yeah.

[A]

You don't know the difference.

[B]

This is my desire. This is my goal. It's. I don't think you know it isn't. Or that perhaps it's. It's the right goal with. In the wrong iteration, Right. Or whatever.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Until you're in it. And the thing that's supposed to make you feel full feels hollow. And you go, oh, no.

[A]

Well, that's the key. Right? That's the key is when you're actually in it, how do you feel? How do you feel? Do you feel miserable? Do you feel hollow? Do you feel like any of those bad things? Because there's really no amount of work you can do on yourself that's gonna fix feeling hollow.

[B]

No, there's no amount of work you can do on yourself that's gonna ease the eggshells you walk on in the wrong house.

[A]

Well, eggshells, that's a different situation. Eggshells suck so bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes. No, eggshells. Very bad.

[B]

Run.

[A]

Any women who are listening to this run away from any eggshell feeling.

[C]

Boo.

[A]

A million times. Boo on eggshells. Right. Eggshells is different for sure than hollow, I think, right? Like, hollow were in a situation, and I felt hollow, which is rare. I would. I don't even know if I would even get myself into a situation that I felt hollow in it. But if I did, I would have to ask myself, am I blocking off? Am I. So is this threatening me somehow, where I'm having to shut off my feelings because I have so many big feelings at all times. If I really felt nothing, I would have to examine that, right? Like, why am I actually feeling nothing? You know what I'm saying? That would be an odd thing and worth examining. But if I did examine it and I realized, oh, that's because this is a. Like, if Charlotte had stayed with Trey, maybe. And I have to. I haven't rewatched yet. When Kyle was here, we talked about some of the things that happened, like the cardboard baby and things. I only vaguely remember it, right? Like, it was a lot. It was a lot of plot that I hadn't experienced in life yet. And my friends hadn't really gone through either. Like, the ivf, all of that later. Later on. Many people I know did that. But in its. And I don't know that I did it justice. I'm really anxious to rewatch. But also, he talked about some of the. When we Weren't sure. And I think the writers were trying to carve out what was actually gonna happen. And I know he was so great to work with, and we were so connected that I always felt very connected. I never felt hollow. But I do remember that there was that time, and I also knew he had to go. Right. Which was sad. But, like, that time when you just know that you and the other person don't want the same thing and that no amount of love is gonna fix that, or attraction or whatever it might be.

[C]

Right.

[A]

No amount of perfectness is going to make you want the same thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you don't want the same thing, you can't stay with that person.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because you will be giving up what you want. Yes. In theory. Right. And that's not something that you should do. No, no.

[B]

There's a difference between compromising and compromising yourself.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And I think the conditioning comes in especially for women, because we are often conditioned to compromise to the point of compromising ourselves.

[A]

It's true. Because no one says to us, don't do it.

[B]

Yeah. And when you realize it's shifted from healthy compromise to I'm compromising myself, you.

[A]

Think, like, do I recognize myself? I mean, I have been in those situations where I, you know, someone's asking me to do something or to give up something or whatever, and I have to say, like, wait, I worked my whole life to create this, and you want me to quit doing it? Really? Like, I was in a relationship where my significant other wanted me to quit acting. And I was so burnt at the time. It was after the show and just burnt out. So tired. So tired. Where I was like, well, maybe, you know, I had that tired thought of, like, maybe I could give it up and live this adventurous life with this person. And then later on I thought, what was I thinking? Yeah, I would miss it so badly.

[B]

If I actually gave it up.

[A]

Also, you can't really give it up and go back. It's not that kind of job. Do you know what I'm saying?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that's it. If you walk away, you walk away. And then I did also think that when I adopted my first child and I ran into Julianne Moore, this is another example of the things I love about our business. Ran into Julianne Moore. And she said, how is it? How's it going? And I said, oh, it's so great. It's so great. I feel so bad being gone. And she said, you know, that's okay. Okay. They're gonna be fine. You have to tell Yourself. They're gonna be fine. You're only gone for a tiny second in their mind. Right. You're gonna be back. And I said, I just feel like maybe I should take a break from acting. She said, don't do it. I said, don't do it. Wow. And she had two children at that point. She said, do not do it. I have friends who have done it. They can never get back in. It's like, oh, thank you, Julianne. Thank you, Julie.

[C]

Ooh.

[A]

Because, like, you have those moments where you're just, like, tired or tired of.

[B]

It, but you do need time to recuperate.

[A]

And I think that's different, though, than going, like, me. I'm kind of an all or nothing, right? Where I'm like, I'm so tired. Maybe I don't want to do it anymore. But that's just how tired you are. Right. That's how tired you are.

[B]

And then you go, like, what was I thinking?

[A]

Right. Because also, sometimes the well gets dry. Yeah.

[B]

If your tank is empty, you can't give.

[A]

Yeah. There's nothing to draw on or whatever. You have to refill the tank. But that's different than quitting. Yes, Very different.

[B]

Yes. Very different. You can convince yourself, like, oh, I might just be permanently empty. You're not.

[A]

Right. But that's also like a. Just. You're just so tired. You can't, you know, function or whatever, you know, I don't know about you guys, but I love to buy gifts. I love it so much. I love it so much more than getting gifts. But the one thing that I do love, especially when it comes to my daughter, is getting matching things. I know it's such a cliche, but I love it so much. So. So I have the perfect brand for you. Pandora Jewelry can make their holiday unforgettable with the gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry. A gift that tells a story and shows, you know, theirs that doesn't just sparkle, but speaks. From new festive charms to forever rings and personal engravings, this season, give a gift that's perfectly theirs. Whether you're shopping for a shiny surprise for your significant other, matching bracelets to celebrate your friendship, or a heartfelt gift for a family member, say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop [e-mail] or visit your closest Pandora store. AG's holiday 2025 collection is here. This season, AG explores the intersection of cinematic legacy and sartorial craftsmanship, drawing inspiration from the crews and directors behind the iconic spaghetti westerns of the 1960s. How exciting. Set against the backdrop of Alabama Hills, a legendary location in film history. The collection channels a sense of sun, bleached grit, timeless style and quiet confidence. This collection is a tribute to the makers behind the lens, the costume designers, cinematographers and directors whose understated off screen style helped shape on screen legacy. Italian fabrications are at the forefront, paired with western inspired detailing and elevated utility pieces. Shirt jackets, layered textures and modern silhouettes that make a statement without trying too hard. Denim remains the foundation, but it's reimagined with texture, depth and timeless wearability that define AG's DNA. The Holiday 2025 collection is available now at aggenes.com use code KRISTIN15 to take 15% off your next order. Even if you've shopped AG before. Cool.

[B]

Before all of the algorithm fed Bilar.

[C]

And the endless sea of dupes, shopping.

[B]

Used to feel more fun. But here's a confession Podlings. You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing, that adrenaline hit is real. I recently found a dress I had been looking for since I was 19. I saw it on a TV show and I swear it called out to me and it has been something I.

[C]

Have come back to time and time again. I have searched everywhere, every single secondhand.

[B]

Store until finally I found it in my size. On ebay.

[C]

It's about the thrill of finding pieces just like that.

[B]

And I want you to find pieces that feel like you as well.

[C]

There's always more to discover.

[B]

Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity Guarantee Ebay Things people love so let me get this straight. Your company has data here, there and everywhere, but your AI can't use the data because it's here, there and everywhere? Seems like something's missing. Every business has unique data. IBM helps your AI access your data wherever it lives. To change how you do business, let's create Smile to business IBM.

[C]

You know what separates the pros from the rest? It's not just talent. It's how you respond. When the game gets tough, you dig in. You fight back. And when it comes to your health, that same mindset matters. Yeah, especially if you or someone you care about is facing metastatic prostate cancer. There's a treatment called pluvicto lutetium LU177 vapivotide tetraxitan. And it's changing the game. Plavicto isn't chemo. It's a different kind of Treatment that targets psma positive cells, including prostate cancer cells. Plavicto can be used before chemotherapy for some people. Here's the official word. Pluvicto is a prescription treatment used to treat adults with prostate specific membrane antigen positive metastatic castration resistant prostate cancer or psma positive MCRPC who have already been treated with hormone therapy and are considered appropriate to delay chemotherapy. Now let's talk safety. Pluvicto involves contact with radioactivity, which may increase the risk for cancer and cause fetal harm. Drink plenty of fluids, urinate often, use contraception, and talk to your doctor about how to reduce the risk of exposing others to radiation during and after treatment. It can also cause low blood cell counts, kidney problems, and infertility. Tell your doctor if you notice weakness, pale skin, shortness of breath, bleeding or bruising, more easily an infection, or changes in urination. Side effects include decreased blood cell counts, tiredness, dry mouth, nausea, appetite loss, joint or back pain, and constipation. Look, every day matters. And if you're in the fight or know someone who is, this is a conversation worth having. Ask your doctor about Plavicto because just like in football, every play, every decision, every second counts. Visit pluvicto.com to learn more. That's P L-U-V-I-C-T-O.com.

[A]

Let's talk about Samantha for a second because this interested me, this storyline. I didn't remember this storyline. She basically is with this very hot, athletic dude who's taking Viagra and he gives her some, and then she has this incredible orgasm. And I remember a moment in time where they talked about giving Viagra to women for, you know, pleasure. Right. And I don't know what happened with it.

[B]

Do you? I sure do. You do? I do.

[A]

Let's hear it.

[B]

So this is actually really interesting. Okay. One of my girlfriends, Cindy Eckert, is an amazing entrepreneur, and she created Addie, which is the female Viagra.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And when they were working on, you know, advocating for this for research dollars, for, you know, the FDA to actually address the medication.

[A]

As we know, there's almost no research dollars given to women.

[B]

Issues. Yes. Women were not even included in a clinical trial until 1993.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Which is insane considering we are 51% of the population and we also deserve health care.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Less than 3% of all healthcare dollars go to women. So, I mean, it's really. It's of health, like research dollars, I should say. Someone's gonna yell at me for speaking incorrectly off the cuff. But the fascinating Thing I learned from Cindy is that, you know, her team learned that Viagra had been given emergency clearance by the fda. It was said to be such an important.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Medication.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

So important to humanity that it went through FDA clearance in six months.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And she said, well, if you gave it to the men, give it to the women. And I won't say who, because I likewise respect other people's stories. But an elected official, like, on Capitol Hill, looked her in the eye and said, what do we want a bunch of horny women running around for?

[A]

Ew.

[B]

And Cindy, to her credit, she's a baller, looked at this guy and said, well, do you want your wife to want to have sex with you or not? Awesome, Cindy. Yay. She's amazing.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

And, yeah, she has been doing all of this, this incredible advocacy for women's health, women's sexual health, all of it. And I think it's so interesting that, you know, the idea that men might not be able to have sex at any moment they want to was an emergency, but women deserving healthcare for their sexual and reproductive function is still very brown paper bag, bottom shelf conversation. And so she has a doc called the Pink Pill that's coming out, and she's just, like, out here doing this work. And so through our friendship, I've really. I've just learned so much about it. And so I was watching this episode going, oh, my God, it's only Samantha.

[A]

Amazing. I know. So wait, did. Can you get it?

[B]

You can?

[A]

Oh, wow. That's great. That's great.

[B]

But it. But it. It was essentially, the medication was bought by a, you know, larger company and then shelved, and Cindy fought to get it back. Whoa. Yeah. She's amazing.

[A]

That is amazing. I want to see her doc.

[B]

But it was such a cool thing to watch the episode thinking, like, oh, my God, I wish that there had been anything for women at the time.

[A]

I know, I know.

[B]

And I sort of love that, you know, Samantha's storyline. And Kim being such a great, committed actress, like, she really leaned in on it.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

And to play the desperation of, you can't take this away from me because this is making this better for me. She did it so comedically. But knowing what I know, thanks to Cindy, I was like, oh, there's a whole other layer to this. And Darren Starr doing such a genius thing in the writing of this episode, connecting that, like, gorgeous high note at the opera, like, going straight into Samantha's orgasm. I literally put in my notes. I go opera to org orgasm is a 10 out of 10 for the readers.

[A]

It was good. It was really good.

[B]

Such a good hook.

[A]

Yeah, it was beautiful. It was beautiful. It did make me wonder because I remember it being discussed, like, in the news, I feel like. And then it just kind of went away, which is interesting. All right, we didn't talk about Miranda and Steve. Let's try to talk about Miranda and Steve before time is up.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

I know. They're incredible. They're incredible. But. But literally the but I vaguely remember this storyline because I was kind of horrified.

[B]

I was am. Was just like, oh, God.

[A]

I know we're talking, you guys, about the skidmart. Okay. Everyone's gonna know who's seen it. I know. And the thing that's interesting about it, and I love the writing again, is that basically Miranda, who has been struggling with, you know, kind of Steve's committedness and availability and all of the things that's also reflected in the Aiden Carrie relationship. And so there he is at home, and, you know, she's telling. Telling all the rest of us that he's predictable and safe, but she loves that about him, which is like, wow.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Wow. Big growth.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And that her favorite thing to do on Saturday night is to do his laundry. And we're like, whoa, gosh.

[B]

Miranda.

[A]

Miranda. And then she's there. They're eating lasagna and having sex and watching tv and everything's great. And then she's doing the laundry, and she comes across skid marks in his underwear, which is, you know, just like, you know, it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he. It is. To me, it's kind of. And I don't have a lot of experience with this, but it's a little bit like, you know, the kid element of Steve, the episode where he's watching Scooby Doo, it's coming, you know, like, there's a theme going on where she. He wants to have a baby. And she's like, I already have a baby. And I think she's. Carrie says that in voiceover. Miranda. Really? She already had a baby. She might have already had a baby. I think this is a little bit like that too, also. And also, like, my thought was, why isn't he doing the laundry?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Well, it is that. It's an elemental thing that it seems the writers want to weave in, which is, is this man a little juvenile?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it's reflective of that larger thing, which we know that so many Women feel like they become their husband's mothers, right? You know, I read this whole bread on threads on the day before Thanksgiving, and this woman was like, I asked my, I asked. My husband asked me if he could help. I said, yes, please handle all the, you know, hors d', oeuvres, like the morning snacks. And he said, well, what if I drive you to the store? Can you go in and get them? I don't know what to get. And she was like, driving me to the store isn't helpful. Also, it's taking like, I need to be here prepping. I'm not doing nothing. I'm prepping all of the food. You offered to help. Just go get something. And he couldn't do it. Oof. And she was like, I've done this for 13 years and it's kind of my fault. And I'm also fed up. And it was really interesting to watch all the women in the discussion. And I thought about it, watching these scenes, because she does love him and he is absolutely fine reverting to letting the woman do everything for him. And it is that kind of generational learning pressure. Girls get one set and boys get another.

[A]

Well, look, I've got a seven year old boy, right? And he, he, he'll say, I'll say, like, can you do X, Y or Z? And he'll go, I'm kicking my ball right now.

[B]

And you're like.

[A]

And I'm like, yes, yes, I see that you're kicking your ball right now. I mean, like, what I'm trying to.

[B]

Say is you're, you're.

[A]

As a mom, my feeling at this point in time at least, is that you're trying to create something that doesn't exist in them.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which is interesting. I don't know enough about the science of their brain and where their brain is right now to know why it doesn't exist in them. Because it would be true. I have an older daughter, right. But if I would have said to her, you know, can you set the table? I kind of think she would have said yes and just done it. So it's interesting. And then you're in the mom position of going, okay, intellectually, I know that I need to calmly reinforce that he needs to participate in helping. But also it is easier for me to actually do it. But that is then the way this all continues. Right. But it's a very fascinating thing and I think about it a lot as being a mom. Because you feel the responsibility, okay, I've got to try to raise like an empathetic functioning kid, slash young man. Who's going to be doing these things. And not be expecting the woman in his life to do them.

[B]

Yes, but it's hard. It's so hard.

[A]

I don't know why, but it really is.

[B]

And I think it's a great thing that they did that your writers did. Exploring this stuff with this relationship. Because they're asking these existential questions so much. And. And you know, Miranda is talking about what it's like to have this healthy intimacy that she loves. And also, when does intimacy go so far that it cancels the intimacy out?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

On their walk and talk. You know, to your point about those great scenes. She's like, oh, I think the intimacy's over now. Right, right, right. You know, and they're in it. Right. And I love the conversation between Miranda and Carrie on that side of it.

[A]

Oh, they're always so great.

[B]

So great.

[A]

I know. They're so great. I would love to cut all of those walk and talks between Miranda and Carrie together. From the beginning till the end. I mean, if we are really done. I don't know. But they're always so amazing. And I would have to throw in one that's not a walk and talk. Which is this argument they get into. And just like that, after my birthday party. Which is one of my most favorite scenes ever. But I need to ask you about something. And I don't know if I should or not. But I kind of want to. Because you have a unique life experience. Where you can speak to a Miranda issue that I would love to know your thoughts on. You have talked about this, so I feel like it's okay. But you can tell me if it's not. So you to all the exterior world, were in a heterosexual relationship. And then suddenly you were not in that relationship anymore. And you were in a lesbian relationship. And this can happen. Correct?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you know, Miranda. This happens to Miranda.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it also happened to Cynthia. Right. Which they're different. They're different. They're not the same. But when it happened to Cynthia and she kind of got outed. Which we don't even need to get into. Cause it's old history. But one time I went on Letterman. And I was supposed to just be promoting the show, I think. And one thing led to another. And he wanted to talk about how could Cynthia just wake up one day and be gay?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yes. So I did, I think.

[B]

Cause it's a man's worst nightmare.

[A]

I think that's exactly right. I was like, are you worried? Days like what's the issue?

[B]

What's going on, honey? Like, who cares?

[A]

You know what I mean, right? I don't know about you guys, but I love to buy gifts. I love it so much. I love it so much more than getting gifts. But the one thing that I do love, especially when it comes to my daughter, is getting matching things. I know it's such a cliche, but I love it so much. So I have the perfect brand for you. Pandora Jewelry can make their holiday unforgettable with the gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry. A gift that tells a story and shows you know theirs that doesn't just sparkle, but speaks. From new festive charms to forever rings and personal engravings, this season give a gift that's perfectly theirs. Whether you're shopping for a shiny surprise for your significant other, matching bracelets to celebrate your friendship, or a heartfelt gift for a family member, say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop [e-mail] or visit your closest Pandora store. AG's holiday 2025 collection is here. This season, AG explores the intersection of cinematic legacy and sartorial craftsmanship, drawing inspiration from the crews and directors behind the iconic spaghetti westerns of the 1960s. How exciting. Set against the backdrop of Alabama Hills, a legendary location in film history, the collection channels a sense of sun, bleached grit, timeless style and quiet confidence. This collection is a tribute to the makers behind the lens, the costume designers, cinematographers and directors whose understated off screen style helped shape on screen legacy. Italian fabrications are at the forefront, paired with western inspired detailing and elevated utility pieces, shirt jackets, layered textures and modern silhouettes that make a statement without trying too hard. Denim remains the foundation, but it's reimagined with texture, depth and timeless wearability that define AG's DNA. The Holiday 2025 collection is available now at AG jeans.com use code KRISTIN15 to take 15% off your next order. Even if you've shopped AG before, cool. Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more, well, fun. But here's a confession Dirty Rush listeners. You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling, it's a fashion pursuit. I love using filters for condition and price saving searches and spotting verified listings. It makes shopping feel smart and exciting again. And when you saw that rare Adidas collab or that Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting, it's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by eBay's authenticity guarantee eBay things people love.

[B]

So you're telling me that the AI that's meant to make everyone's job easier to manage just adds more to manage on top of the thousands of apps the IT department already manages? Funny how that works. Any business can add AI. IBM helps you scale and manage AI to change how you do business. Let's create Smile to business IBM.

[C]

You know what separates the pros from the rest? It's not just talent, it's how you respond. When the game gets tough, you dig in, you fight back. And when it comes to your health, that same mindset matters. Yeah, especially if you or someone you care about is facing metastatic prostate cancer. There's a treatment called Pluvicto Lutetium L177 the pivot tide to Traxetan. And it's changing the game. Plavicto isn't chemo. It's a different kind of treatment that targets PSMA positive cells, including prostate cancer cells. Plavicto can be used before chemotherapy for some people. Here's the official word. Pluvicto is a prescription treatment used to treat adults with prostate specific membrane antigen positive metastatic castration resistant prostate cancer or or PSMA positive MCRPC who have already been treated with hormone therapy and are considered appropriate to delay chemotherapy. Now let's talk safety. Pluvicto involves contact with radioactivity which may increase the risk for cancer and cause fetal harm. Drink plenty of fluids, urinate often, use contraception and talk to your doctor about how to reduce the risk of exposing others to radiation during and after treatment.

[A]

Treatment.

[C]

It can also cause low blood cell counts, kidney problems and infertility. Tell your doctor if you notice weakness, pale skin, shortness of breath, bleeding or bruising more easily an infection or changes in urination. Side effects include decreased blood cell counts, tiredness, dry mouth, nausea, appetite loss, joint or back pain and constipation. Look, every day matters and if you're in the fight or know someone who is, this is a conversation worth having. Ask your doctor about Plavicto because just like in football, every play, every decision, every second counts. Visit pluvicto.com to learn more. That's P L-U-V-I-C-T O.com.

[A]

It is interesting the floating fears that and then project onto people and many many many of our fans believe that Miranda that that is not what Miranda would have done or that that is that we were somehow being untrue to the character. We don't feel this Way. I know Cynthia doesn't feel this way. I know Michael Patrick, who wrote it, doesn't feel this way. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. But I just thought since you're here.

[B]

Yeah, I love it.

[A]

You're two cents.

[B]

Well, you know, I think it's really interesting and particularly, particularly because it was Cynthia's story. And then Miranda winds up falling for this non binary person. I think in my brain, I always wondered when that shift happened. I was like, oh, I wonder if they're specifically choosing this either because everyone loved Sarah so much or because they don't want it to feel like they're copycatting Cynthia's real life. You know, like it.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

You know, there's.

[A]

There's.

[B]

There's something.

[A]

I know the answer.

[B]

Yeah. And. And by the way, we don't have to. It's like, not always for us. I think what's really important. And I always say this to people when someone's like, oh, my God, I'm Brooke Davis, biggest fan. I'm like, no, I'm Brooke Davis's biggest fan. You can be her second biggest fan. You know, when. When people are like, Miranda wouldn't have done that. I'm like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna trust Cynthia and Michael's opinions about what Miranda would have. Wouldn't do above anyone else's. I think what's really interesting, and at least for me, it was a. There was a dissolution of, you know, the. The thing that I worked so hard for and that I was so intentional about. I actually think intentional to the point that I made it something instead of necessarily taking stock of what was. In hindsight, I'm like, wow. I really produced that so beautifully.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

It was a really incredible.

[A]

Almost like in a Charlotte. Like you were going to make that happen.

[B]

Yes. It was less for me about gender.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Truly. Like, one of my best girlfriends was the one who was like, he's not your guy. And I don't think a guy is your guy.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And I had always been like. Like, whoever is my person is my person, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it was really interesting to have someone who knows me so well suggest something so specific. As it sort of started to dawn on me was, oh, I've. I've been trying to build safety, and I've been trying to build a life, and I've. I've been trying to build, build, build, build, make, make, make. And before I knew it, I was like, oh, I just have intimacy here. I just. I have Someone who sees me and asks me how I'm doing. I didn't have that before.

[A]

So it wasn't necessarily. This is so key and interesting, and this is what I do think. I do think Cynthia has said publicly already about her situation. It wasn't about the gender necessarily, was about the person.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I think that's a very important thing to say. But I do think that one thing that happens for. For people in life is that you get an idea of who you are and then you have walls up. Well, I can't be that person.

[B]

Yeah. Well, and I think for me, too, you know, it's. It's interesting, the double standard for queer people in the spectrum. Right. Like, men that are bisexual are told they're obviously just gay and they haven't figured it out.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Women that are bisexual are immediately told like, oh, girls, experiment. That is what it is.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so I think when. If you think you're. If you think or you feel or you know that you're bisexual, and then you're told that that's not really a thing unless you're, like, absolutely gay, you go, well, I don't think I am. So maybe I'm not really at all. Maybe I'm like an 80, 20. Maybe I'm whatever.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Your percentages are. And then for me, I think a real thing was. All of a sudden I was like, how could this be, like, hitting me? It was, like, magical and really complicated, you know, and became hard, I think, for other people's perceptions, whatever.

[A]

Well, listen, this is also what I'm.

[B]

Talking about with Miranda. Well, yes, people project onto. Miranda is very intense.

[A]

Right. It upsets people. Yeah.

[B]

But when it dawned on me, it was like a light switch went on, and I was like, oh, I'll never unsee that. This is the most at ease I've ever been around a person.

[A]

And isn't that what we all want?

[B]

And it's so gorgeous. And I feel so grateful. And she absolutely saved my life.

[A]

Part of the reason I ask you is that I do think each of us have such an unusual, unique experience, if we're open to it. Right. And what upsets me when people talk to me or get on my Instagram and talk to me about Miranda. I don't know why we have to keep things so closed.

[B]

It's so odd.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And there's also this very weird thing, and this. This bothered me about the discourse of your second chapter of your show is people were like, oh, they're doing too much. Oh, like Miranda's not just gonna leave Steve. She's gonna leave Steve for a non binary person.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Like, you know, of course the teacher is this person. And of course the realtor is the. And it's like, shut again. Shut the up. Like, just get over yourselves. The world is different. People are different. People have more awareness of each other, more overlap with each other. Certainly in a city like New York. You think this power lawyer isn't gonna meet queer people in New York City? Definitely. Get over yourself.

[A]

Of course. But also, the other thing that cracks me up is that our DNA is to do too much. That's what we did with the first show. Do you know what I'm saying? I love. And we couldn't do the same show because that wouldn't make sense. Right. So we had to. But then they. Everyone was like. But in the beginning of Sex and the City, everyone was also like, you know, So I. I mean, people couldn't believe. Exactly. And everyone forgets that. Right. So it will be interesting to see over time what people. If the discourse changes. I have no idea. Obviously, the discourse has moved on because it goes very quickly. Yeah. You know what I mean? But thank you for answering that because it was a really beautiful answer. And I feel real also. And, I mean, Miranda's not a real person. It's also important to remember that. But I think that what we wanted to show was that you just don't know.

[B]

You don't know. No. You never know what's coming. Yeah. For you, you never know what. You never know what you're gonna learn. You never know how you're going to expand.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I think the most important thing for me, having been through my own version of it, is that as hard as it was to say we've made a mistake, it's harder to stay in a life that stifles your growth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That stifles your expansion. That steps on your joy. It's harder to live in a house where you walk on eggshells every day.

[A]

No one should do that.

[B]

It's just not worth it.

[A]

No.

[B]

And so what I think is actually really important, whether it's for a character like her or, you know, for those of us who, like, for better or worse, have lives, you know, in the. In the public sector, you. You. You get to not only be courageous, but you might get to be courageous in public and help someone else be courageous too.

[A]

I agree. Because I think it's. It's just important to remember that the. The world is large and you don't need to limit yourself.

[B]

No.

[A]

No. And I think for all the young people, you know, that's important to hear as well. You don't know what that means exactly, but just stay open. Staying open. So, key. Which brings me to my last question. Are you a Charlotte?

[B]

I mean. Oh, my gosh. I didn't used to think so. And let me tell you what. Watching this episode, I was like, I didn't buy a book, but I definitely. Like, I. I made a plan.

[A]

You produced it, as you said.

[B]

You know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We really like, like, and. And, you know, in the kindest way possible. I think you. You can get lost in that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I know.

[A]

Well, I think.

[B]

I know.

[A]

We.

[B]

We did.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, definitely. I think that you're obviously a very, you know, you're smart and you're functioning and you're together. So when you want something, you're going to pursue it. Right. Which is how Charlotte. You know, and the way. I don't know if you remember that Charlotte proposes to herself and then she's all upset, you know, she basically makes him propose.

[C]

She.

[A]

Very much. Intentionally. Yes. She intentionally makes it all happen. And then all of a sudden she's like, oh, no. It's not really what I thought, but this is a great lesson to learn, and I love it. And I think so. When you said that, you wouldn't have previously said that you were. Who would you have said that you were before? Because you can be different ones at different times.

[B]

I've always sort of vacillated. You know, there are parts of. Especially, I think, like we were saying when we were younger, we all really identified with Carrie more. As I've gotten older, I'm like, maybe there's. I really. It's a lot of Miranda in me, actually.

[A]

That's cute. That's what I thought you were gonna say. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And it's funny, I think, you know, you go back and like we were saying to watch these sort of seminal shows from different life perspectives who relate to different things.

[A]

It's very interesting.

[B]

And what I think is actually so cool is that I can look at pieces of each of those women and.

[A]

Go, oh, yeah, definitely.

[B]

I see myself in that. And I think it's the genius of your show. There was something really magical that you all did where it's like you sort of gave us the captain planet of women and their experiences. And when you got together, then, like, this extra magic thing happened.

[A]

Right, right, right. That's what we wanted to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really cool. And we did it. I mean. Yeah. I love I think definitely. I think different things when I watch it, you know, now, obviously. Yeah.

[B]

Do you feel like you're a Charlotte? I mean.

[A]

Yeah, you know, I guess, because I am. Right. But I always felt Carrie related in terms of her searching. Carrie is a searcher. She's gonna search and examine and turn it over and. Yeah, I think. I think. I mean, that I think is such a really hugely important part of her, but also so relatable and the part I love so much about her, you know? And, yes, she doesn't have it all worked out, obviously, but she's gonna.

[B]

Yeah, but nobody does.

[A]

No, nobody does.

[B]

Nobody does. And I think, why not try?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And to go and to search and to seek. Sometimes it's a dead end and sometimes it's a discovery. And I think the willingness to continue to show up, to remain in the arena as the attitude close, is really key.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And it's. It's a thing that I cherish about those women that. That you all played. And it's a thing I've, like, really had to learn to love and own about myself. Like, I. I'm always gonna try.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I've finally learned, I think.

[A]

Not.

[B]

To keep trying just. Cause I started. Oh, that's a good point too.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's hard sometimes. That's hard.

[B]

I think people get stuck sometimes saying, well, I chose this.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I can't undo it.

[A]

Right. So I can't.

[B]

Yes, you can. Life is long.

[A]

Definitely. Life is long. And you have to live with it.

[B]

You never know what's coming.

[A]

You don't. You don't. It's so true. Let's talk a little bit, Sophia, about what you're up to. I know you have your work in progress. Podcast Drama Queens is wrapped.

[B]

Yes, we wrapped. We watched the whole show back, which is so wild and surreal. Work in progress is evergreen and so much fun. And I can't believe at the time we're recording, my guest last week was Vice President Kamala Harris.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I mean, totally nuts. Amazing, Amazing. Monica Lewinsky's on this week. Great. I just get to talk to all of these really fascinating women, whether it's like Chelsea Handler coming to make us laugh or Ava DuVernay talking about filmmaking. I love Ava. Oh, she's just.

[A]

Oh, a dream.

[B]

One of my favorite conversations ever. So I just. I love. I love doing that so much. I love this format, getting to be with it.

[A]

Me too. It is. It's really fun. And then acting wise, you're on. Great. Anatomy. What?

[B]

Oh my gosh. Are you a doctor? What do you play? I play a trauma surgeon. A trauma surgeon. Dr. Cass Beckman.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

She overlaps with Teddy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Again stories. Talking about, you know, queerness and intimacy. Oh fantastic. I'm so thrilled about it. Kim Raver's a dream. We have so much fun together.

[A]

I don't know the characters names. I know Kim though. She's lovely. Tell her I we have so much fun together. She's great.

[B]

That's fun.

[A]

Yay.

[C]

Yay.

[A]

I can't wait to see all your different things. How wonderful. Thank you.

[B]

Yay.

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

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[C]

Janice Torres here, and I'm Austin Hankwitz. We host the podcast Mind the Small Business Success Stories, produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

[A]

We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners.

[C]

The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing.

[B]

Everyone's a rookie.

[C]

That's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is to be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.