The King of Sex and The City...

Summary

Episode Summary: The King of Sex and The City...

Are You a Charlotte?
Episode: The King of Sex and The City...
Release Date: February 3, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
Guest: Michael Patrick King

In this compelling episode of Are You a Charlotte?, host Kristin Davis engages in an in-depth conversation with Michael Patrick King, a pivotal writer and producer of the iconic series Sex and the City. Together, they unravel the intricate journey of developing Charlotte York's character, sharing untold stories, behind-the-scenes insights, and reflecting on the show's lasting impact on contemporary conversations around women, relationships, and sexuality.

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1. Introduction to Charlotte's Origins

The episode kicks off with Kristin Davis expressing her excitement about having Michael Patrick King join her in her home to explore Charlotte's character development. [02:01]

Kristin Davis: "I want to know, are you a Charlotte?"

Michael Patrick King: "I am not a Charlotte. I may be the Charlotte now you have created, but you have created that."

They discuss the initial challenges in defining Charlotte, emphasizing that Charlotte was not heavily fleshed out in the original book but became a central figure through the show’s evolution. [03:31]

2. Balancing Tradition and Modernity

King highlights Charlotte's role as the anchor of tradition amidst the progressive narratives of her friends. [04:10]

Michael Patrick King: "She was holding tradition that we were destroying every episode."

Kristin Davis: "Yes."

This balance was crucial in providing a counterpoint to the other characters, making the group's dynamic more relatable and nuanced.

3. Infusing Humor into Charlotte's Character

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Michael Patrick King’s mission to infuse humor into Charlotte, particularly in the early seasons where the show lacked comedic elements.

Michael Patrick King: "The comedy comes out of this character being said, 'Well, to use up the butt, I wanna go up your butt.' But it's not funny unless it's Charlotte who's hearing it."

[12:24]

Kristin emphasizes that the humor added depth to Charlotte, making her more than just the traditional, uptight character initially portrayed. [12:29]

Kristin Davis: "For me, comedy is about having high stakes. If you just have jokes that are surface, they aren't actually gonna be funny."

4. Personal Growth and Overcoming Challenges

Kristin shares her personal growth journey, reflecting on early uncertainties and the pressure of defining Charlotte's role.

Kristin Davis: "I don't think I knew who I was, honestly." [05:08]

Michael praises her evolution as an actress, noting her increasing confidence and ability to embody Charlotte's complexities. [06:28]

Michael Patrick King: "The evolution of you as an actor, just owning your belief in yourself."

5. Behind-the-Scenes Anecdotes

The conversation is rich with behind-the-scenes stories that highlight the collaborative spirit and creative challenges faced during production.

Michael Patrick King: "When we did the table read, the four of you dying were laughing so hard but embarrassed, laughing red-faced." [11:17]

They recount specific episodes, such as "Bay of Merry Pigs," illustrating the blend of humor and awkwardness that defined Charlotte's character. [13:01]

6. Navigating Contracts and Character Recognition

Kristin shares a pivotal moment when she was offered a recurring contract for Charlotte, revealing her apprehensions and ultimate decision to remain a central character.

Kristin Davis: "I was like, what do I do? And he says, don't sign it." [30:09]

This decision solidified Charlotte's place in the show, allowing her character to develop organically rather than being relegated to minor appearances.

7. Charlotte's Lasting Impact and Legacy

As the discussion wraps up, both Kristin and Michael reflect on Charlotte's enduring legacy and the show's influence on societal conversations about women and relationships.

Michael Patrick King: "The family you make. And I learned the lesson... it was about the friendships of the family you make."

Kristin Davis: "It is important. The family you make."

They acknowledge how Charlotte, alongside her friends, helped push previously taboo topics into mainstream dialogue, fostering a more open and honest portrayal of women's lives and relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Kristin Davis [02:13]: "I had a good cry just thinking about you being here."

• Michael Patrick King [04:10]: "She was holding tradition that we were destroying every episode."

• Kristin Davis [05:08]: "I don't think I knew who I was, honestly."

• Michael Patrick King [12:24]: "The comedy comes out of this character being said, 'Well, to use up the butt, I wanna go up your butt.' But it's not funny unless it's Charlotte who's hearing it."

• Kristin Davis [30:09]: "I was like, what do I do? And he says, don't sign it."

Conclusion

This episode of Are You a Charlotte? offers an intimate exploration of Charlotte York’s character, highlighting the delicate balance between tradition and modernity that made Sex and the City a groundbreaking series. Through candid conversations and heartfelt reflections, Kristin Davis and Michael Patrick King illuminate the creative processes and personal journeys that brought Charlotte to life, leaving listeners with a deeper appreciation for the show's impact and legacy.

Transcript

[Tomer Cohen]

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[Michael Patrick King]

I've always been inspired by frustration.

[Kristen Davis]

It came back to my own personal pain point, so we had to go out to farmers and convince them.

[Unknown]

Following that, curiosity is a superpower.

[Michael Patrick King]

You have to be obsessed with the human condition.

[Unknown]

Listen to Building One on the iHeartRadio.

[Michael Patrick King]

App, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Andrew Seaman]

Did you know that 70% of people get hired at companies where they already have a connection? I'm Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn's editor at large for jobs and career development, and on my podcast, Get Hired, I bring you all the information you need to, well, get hired. Landing a job may be tough, but Get Hired is here for you every step of the way with advice on resumes, networking, negotiation, and so much more. Listen to Get Hired with Andrew seaman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you like to listen.

[Emilia]

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[Tomer Cohen]

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[Kristen Davis]

Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? You guys, you guys. We have Michael Fudger King.

[Michael Patrick King]

That's correct. I'm in your house.

[Kristen Davis]

I'm so excited. We're in my house. It's a little bit different today because I had Michael, so it's super, super special.

[Michael Patrick King]

It is special to be here. I'm thrilled.

[Kristen Davis]

We are thrilled to have you.

[Michael Patrick King]

Because I love you. Is that why?

[Kristen Davis]

Yes, it is.

[Michael Patrick King]

Because I love you.

[Kristen Davis]

You know, it's true. I took the kids to school this morning and I had a good cry just thinking about you being here.

[Michael Patrick King]

I could Cry right now.

[Kristen Davis]

I know, because I love you and you're amazing. And it's hard to even. I was trying to think about how I was going to take us back to the beginning, but also encapsulate or sum up or somehow explain to people, like, what we have, which, I mean, on some level, the joy of what we do is that they see what we have. They may not know that that's what they're seeing, but they see what we have. But because we're here and we get to talk about it, we can actually talk about what we have.

[Michael Patrick King]

I think what they see is from the beginning episodes till where we are now is how much I fell in love with you as an actress, that. That we just kept growing her.

[Kristen Davis]

I mean, isn't that the truth? Cause there's, like, nothing in the beginning.

[Michael Patrick King]

I know. It's really interesting. And I would like to start this conversation by asking you.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes?

[Michael Patrick King]

Are you with Charlotte?

[Kristen Davis]

Yes, in so many ways. But I also think I'm part Carrie. And since you know me so well, I wonder what you think.

[Michael Patrick King]

I think that you were, and Charlotte was, in the beginning, for me, the furthest away from my reference points of, how do you write this character? I didn't know that. I am not a Charlotte. I am not a Charlotte. I may be the Charlotte now you have created, but you have created that. In the beginning, I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna write this character, this Charlotte. I don't know what she is underneath.

[Kristen Davis]

Right, right. Well, I think everyone must have felt that, because there's, like, you know, first of all, she's not in the book that much. Right. And she's like an amalgam of people. Apparently, we found out over the years.

[Michael Patrick King]

She may have been thinly sketched, but so deeply important.

[Tomer Cohen]

Thank you.

[Michael Patrick King]

Because she was holding tradition that we were destroying every episode.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

So without Charlotte's rules and rigorous understanding of what society wants women to be, we wouldn't have had anything to sort of balance against, push against.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

So the idea of how thinly sketched she was, but how vital she was to the eventual thread of the four of them that we kept weaving and getting stronger and stronger and stronger. So when I first met you, I was like, I don't know whether I thought you were Charlotte, whether I didn't know who you were.

[Kristen Davis]

I don't think I knew who I was, honestly.

[Michael Patrick King]

You know, that is so honest.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true.

[Michael Patrick King]

Because there's a real metamorphosis.

[Kristen Davis]

I mean, and inside as. As well, like, when I'm looking back now, I'm just in, like, some levels of shock. I'm like. I'm like a unformed puppy, like, flopping around the world. I feel so worried for me when I watch, like, me personally, like Charlotte. Yes. But I know what happens to her. But, like, me as Kristen, I'm like, how did I exist? Like, I'm so, like, barely covered. Do you know what I mean?

[Michael Patrick King]

I think that I do know what you mean. And I would watch you in those early scenes, and you were heightenedly aware of everything around you, Everything in a way that you. Now, I literally, to use one of your brand things, I could bring an elephant onto the set while you were performing and acting, and you wouldn't even react to it. But at that point, if a door opened somewhere, you would feel it so deeply. And I thought what was so interesting, the evolution of you as an actor, just owning your belief in yourself.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

Is that it?

[Kristen Davis]

I think it must be, because when I look at it myself, I mean, the thing that's weird and this, you know, maybe too much information, but we're on my podcast, so I'm gonna do it. You know, I've been in acting class forever, right? Like, forever at that point. And when you're in acting class, you know, it's extremes, right? Like, they're kind of like, priming you to give it all. Do you know what I'm saying? It's very. No one's ever saying, like, do less. You know, I mean, occasionally Roy London, who was a really kind of like, next level acting teacher, he would say, cover, cover, cover. I obviously never mastered that.

[Michael Patrick King]

No, I actually would not say there's anything in your early performance that was not perfect for what was written. But I think what changed was what was written 100%. I think that you were. You hit it perfectly so that it was a defining color. If we would say that each of them are a color, definitely. You were definitely the color that you needed to be. What I think was so interesting was the trick of being comic.

[Kristen Davis]

Ooh. Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

Which was so important.

[Kristen Davis]

So important. And I do forget that I do forget that part. Right. Because, like, that part in the beginning, especially before you came, the pilot, like, I did tell the story about how I'm doing the pilot, and they're like, you know, bigger, funnier. And I'm like, there's no jokes.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah, that's why I'm there.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly. So when Michael came. Let's get to you for a second.

[Michael Patrick King]

Okay.

[Kristen Davis]

So when you came okay, so Murphy Brown, obviously. Huge. Huge. Huge. You'd won awards, you'd been lauded and everything.

[Michael Patrick King]

And before that, that was my first big TV thing.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. But before that, stand up. Correct.

[Michael Patrick King]

I was a stand up comic.

[Kristen Davis]

And I mean, that's like, to my mind, the hardest.

[Michael Patrick King]

It's hard, especially because. And this will relate to Charlotte. You as Charlotte in the first season. Standup comedy is incredibly aggressive. If there's any part of yourself you're unsure of or hiding. And for me, when I started standup, I was still in the closet. Spoiler alert.

[Kristen Davis]

Were you wearing the plaid shirts and you had the curls?

[Michael Patrick King]

I had the curls in the shirts. But the reality is I was terrified on that stage.

[Kristen Davis]

How could you not?

[Michael Patrick King]

That somebody would see what I was hiding. And I think if I can loop it back to you, you were terrified that first season that someone would see what you were hiding. But I don't know what it was. You'd have to tell me.

[Kristen Davis]

I think what I was hiding. And I don't even know that I would have thought of it this way because obviously I was just like. I mean, inside I feel like I was like thrilled, but also terrified. Like on a high wire act, you know? And that's kind of what I see when I look at it. And I have like super clear memories and then like none. Like everyone said, oh, you're only in one episode. The first one scene. The first episode. I was like, really? I don't remember that. But obviously. Cause we crossed board too. But like, I don't remember that at all.

[Michael Patrick King]

You know, it's so funny because my experience of looking at it again, the early season, is that you're perfect, but the writing isn't there yet. But it is the beginning of the archetype.

[Kristen Davis]

Is there. Definitely the beginning. Definitely.

[Michael Patrick King]

But anyway, so I did stand up.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

And one of the reasons I was brought onto the show, Carolyn Strauss, who is the HBO czar for our show.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes, absolutely.

[Michael Patrick King]

Was the person who sort of said it, sent me the pilot and said, fantastic, what do you think? And I said, I don't know what it is, except for the last moment when Big says to Carrie, absolutely. And the look on Sarah Jessica's face, like she'd been hit with a two by four in the stomach, made me go, what is this?

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

So my mission statement, the reason I was brought in was they said they would pick it up if I joined to make it funny.

[Kristen Davis]

Well, thank God. Michael Cave.

[Michael Patrick King]

Well, because the idea is there need to be jokes.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. There were no jokes.

[Michael Patrick King]

And for me, the idea of making comedy about sex, being an Irish Catholic who was so repressed, and then on top of that, somebody who had been repressed in the closet. And the idea of all of that just makes really comic energy for me. And talking about sex was really the reason we became a thing. Not because of love, which it eventually grew into, right? But it was about Mr. Pussy Shar Pei penis.

[Kristen Davis]

Right? Like pushing that.

[Michael Patrick King]

Pushing and stuff that no one had up the butt.

[Kristen Davis]

The classic Charlotte.

[Michael Patrick King]

Maybe the birth. Maybe the birth of the. Maybe the birth of Charlotte that we grew into. Maybe the butt.

[Kristen Davis]

Is the birth of Charlotte really mortifying to say it, but I know what you're saying.

[Michael Patrick King]

Well, when we did the table read, I wrote that episode, by the way, I'm proud to say, brilliant in the cab, I agree.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, brilliant.

[Michael Patrick King]

I agree on that. But when we read it at the table, the four of you dying were laughing so hard but embarrassed, laughing, red faced, laughing that no one had ever said this sentence or this arena. And it was that thrill of something that no one had ever said. And my feeling about it is we were just saying it a week before people were ready.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, wow.

[Michael Patrick King]

You know, like, I don't think consciousness was so far behind us or else it would have been like, what's that crazy show?

[Kristen Davis]

Listen, I felt we were right on the edge, Ed.

[Michael Patrick King]

I said, we said things a week before people were ready to hear them, which made it thrilling. But also in the arena of acceptability for the audience, practices and standards and practices. Also, I also thought that we got rid of the men a week before the audience got fed up with them 100%, which was important because, like, they're gone. That's too soon. Well, if it stayed one more week, you would have been, like, bored.

[Kristen Davis]

100%. 100%.

[Michael Patrick King]

So I came on to add jokes.

[Kristen Davis]

And what did you think? Like, okay, so you came on to add jokes. Thank the Lord.

[Michael Patrick King]

In character.

[Kristen Davis]

And also, like, I mean, what you really added was depth. Because for me, comedy is about having high stakes, right? Like, if you just have jokes that are surface, they aren't actually gonna be funny.

[Michael Patrick King]

It's really the comedy comes out of this character being said. Well, to use up the butt, I wanna go up your butt. But it's not funny unless it's Charlotte who's hearing it, of course. And then it goes crazy. And then the other ladies get to react, right? And Charlotte, I said, what are we talking about? I went to Brown, Smith or whatever. Smith.

[Kristen Davis]

I went to Smith.

[Michael Patrick King]

Up the butt. What are we talking About. I went to Smith, but Brown would have been too on the nose for that storyline.

[Kristen Davis]

Totally.

[Michael Patrick King]

But so I got there and Darren and I started. And I remember this specifically. We both wrote. He wrote the pilot, then he wrote Models and Mortals. And then I wrote Bay of Merry Pigs, which is the next episode. And we handed each other. Cause we were equal partners. And we handed each other the scripts. And Darren handed me back my script. And every third line had a red circle around it through the whole script. And I said, what is this? And he said, those seem to be, like, they're holding this scene back. I don't think you need them. And I looked and I said, darren, everything you circled is a joke. It's just not the way of writing. It's just not what Melrose Place was.

[Kristen Davis]

No.

[Michael Patrick King]

And Darren's funny, but he wasn't used to seeing the moment where you stop and do a funny thought within the character.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

So, I mean, that was the beginning of, like, oh, yeah, we're gonna keep infusing each other's. And I mean, he had stuff that I never had, would never have had. All that dark money, New York real estate part of the show. That Mr. Big Start. That wasn't in me at first. At all.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

I had my stuff.

[Kristen Davis]

Totally.

[Michael Patrick King]

So when you see Bay of Merry Pigs, it's the beginning of me going, well, this is what I would do with these characters.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. And to me, when you see. I mean, I watched 102 and I almost, like, just crumbled to pieces. Like, it is the most dark and bizarre thing in the world and accurately.

[Michael Patrick King]

Appropriate for what Candice Bushell started with, which is this box. Her writing is so sharp. And I think that book is like a box of broken glass. It's perfect, but it's not at all something you want. Comforting. It's not comforting.

[Kristen Davis]

No. It's rigorous.

[Michael Patrick King]

It's dark, absurd, and funny and treacherous. And that's how she saw the world. And Darren was doing his version. And then I thought, well, we have to. I mean, just to talk about Carrie, Carrie had to be more rounded than broken glass.

[Kristen Davis]

100%.

[Michael Patrick King]

You're not gonna watch Broken Glass every week. You can enjoy it once, but not every week.

[Kristen Davis]

For sure. For sure.

[Michael Patrick King]

And it has nothing to do with the taste or the talent involved. It's like, how do you make something every week that's both sharp but soft?

[Kristen Davis]

Right. And that people can relate to and want to be and also have their different. Like, oh, I like what she said. Oh, I like what this one said. Oh, you know, you needed that. So when I watched War and Two, first of all, I don't even remember, like, that guy Gabriel Mock's character filming those women. Okay. I'm still, like, traumatized. Okay. I need someone to explain, like when you came. So Carolyn brings you and she's like, we need to be funny. Thank God. So great.

[Michael Patrick King]

We need to add a little more funny.

[Kristen Davis]

Definitely. And thank God.

[Michael Patrick King]

And other stuff that I bring. Carolyn didn't see me as a standup. I had written a pilot for HBO that was about the beauty world. And so she saw that there was.

[Kristen Davis]

More than jokes, obviously. And, I mean, sometimes it doesn't even matter if they see that because that's what you bring anyway. And luckily they let us bring it.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah. But I was also coming from network television comedies, so I was liberated to be in a free zone where you could write stuff without editing yourself or having a network edit you.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

I really felt like, you know, like those really long leashes that dogs don't even know they're on.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

That's what I felt like.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, how great. So it was a great experience.

[Michael Patrick King]

Great.

[Kristen Davis]

You were.

[Michael Patrick King]

From the beginning. It was just.

[Kristen Davis]

How great?

[Michael Patrick King]

Run. Run. Run. Run. Run.

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[Kristen Davis]

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[Tomer Cohen]

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[Kristen Davis]

In your mind, did you what. What did you see in terms of, like, how it would go or how long you would do it or, like, what was your vision?

[Michael Patrick King]

I just was having the great creative experience of learning so much, but also doing something so new that no one even knew what it was.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

The first season was just Darren and I in a room making each other laugh. And I remember once Darren had the flu really bad, and he was typing, and it was the episode with the flabby ass guy when Samantha dates the old guy whose ass doesn't exist. And I said something, and Darren laughed so hard that he snotted on the keyboard as he was typing because he was sick.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Patrick King]

So the first time I had an inkling was when, you know, we did all 12 before no one saw it yet.

[Kristen Davis]

I remember it was scary.

[Michael Patrick King]

The first time I had an inkling was when they sent us the trailer they had cut together. And I thought, this is going to be hilarious because they cut all the spiky moments, the sex moments.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

Which was our calling card.

[Kristen Davis]

Right, Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

And then something else became our staying card.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. Cause that's the next question is, like, in your mind, did you think, like, this is gonna make a splash?

[Michael Patrick King]

I wasn't thinking like that.

[Kristen Davis]

You weren't thinking. You were just in it.

[Michael Patrick King]

I was just in it. I just felt like there was no end. I just felt like, oh, we just.

[Kristen Davis]

Well, you were right. Thank goodness.

[Michael Patrick King]

I just felt like, oh, these characters, these actors, this world. This is always gonna be both painful in a great way and funny, because it's painful. But it never felt to me like I ever had to reach for the next thought. It was just like, oh, how do we tell that story? And what's the story there? And I never thought I was completely in the moment the whole time.

[Kristen Davis]

Amazing.

[Michael Patrick King]

I mean. And when I do talk to writers and people, they always say, like, wow. And I go, yeah, everybody wants Sex and the City, but they only want Sex and the City. Season four.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

They don't remember season one.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

They don't. And they don't. They don't remember that it grew. And it was one step, and we had that.

[Kristen Davis]

They gave that to us.

[Michael Patrick King]

It was one foot in front of each other. We kept discovering it. And, you know, in speaking of Bay of Married Pigs, I haven't seen those ever. Until I was given my homework assignment by Are you with Charlotte? My story that I told myself and other people about the first season was I didn't even know what the show was till the finale, which is oh, come all ye Faithful.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

And then when I looked at Bay and Mary Piggs, I was like, I'm not gonna say that again.

[Kristen Davis]

It's so true. Cause you knew the thesis. Yes, it's there.

[Michael Patrick King]

The thesis of the entire series.

[Kristen Davis]

All of it.

[Michael Patrick King]

The thesis is clear as a bell.

[Kristen Davis]

It's really.

[Michael Patrick King]

Which is married people think single people are lepers.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

Which is what we built.

[Kristen Davis]

Definitely. But also then at the end, how she comes back together with us. Think about how many times over the years we have filmed that scene.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah, I know. It's amazing.

[Kristen Davis]

It's amazing.

[Michael Patrick King]

And as, oh, I didn't know what I was doing, and me saying, oh, I didn't know who Charlotte was. She's pretty clear in that episode.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true when you think about that. And thank God, because I was like, oh, my God, is the whole episode, the whole first season gonna be me flailing now? I knew that. The episode you've referenced, which I hate to even say it, still 20 years later, 30 years later, up the butt. The. Up the butt, obviously, is a very specific set of memories of, like, joy of performing as well as, like, humiliation, you know?

[Michael Patrick King]

Well, that is the joy.

[Kristen Davis]

Definitely. Definitely. They go together. They go together.

[Michael Patrick King]

Especially for Charlotte.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

And what you grew to embrace as an actor.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

Was the absolute joy of being in a moment that could be considered embarrassing.

[Kristen Davis]

Totally.

[Michael Patrick King]

And just going with it.

[Kristen Davis]

I mean, it's true. It's true. Well, at some point, one of you, either Darren or you, I can't remember which said, you know, you're going to have to get the pie in the face. Now, I know if you talk to each of us, each of us really feels like we had to get the pie in the face. And probably that's true.

[Michael Patrick King]

I mean, I always say, it's gonna be a cream pie. Yeah. You know, you're gonna get hit.

[Kristen Davis]

You're gonna get hit. And I mean, that was really. I remember going like, oh, okay, that I need to embrace that. That is what we're doing.

[Michael Patrick King]

I think the reason the show was tolerable was because the heroes were also the fools. Definitely the soap. Every. As soon as somebody stood on a soapbox, which Charlotte did a lot. Oh, so often, we always broke the soapbox. So she fell at the end.

[Kristen Davis]

Thank God.

[Michael Patrick King]

You can't make a speech on this show without getting a cream pie.

[Kristen Davis]

Totally.

[Michael Patrick King]

It just was the. It was the. It was the balance of the strident.

[Kristen Davis]

Right, right, right, right. And I mean, I think I was the most strident. I mean, I guess Samantha, in her own way, is strident also, but she's also just, you know, she's powerful. I'm like. I mean, I don't know if I'm powerful or whatever, but, I mean, I remember those pieces.

[Michael Patrick King]

You're so powerful.

[Kristen Davis]

You're so sweet. I might be powerful now, but only because you saw me. Like, I have to give you credit for this. Like, if you had not seen me, I don't know what would have happened.

[Michael Patrick King]

I really don't. Yeah, well, if you hadn't been there, there wouldn't have been no Charlotte. It's true. I mean, the reality of this rose that just kept opening and opening and opening and opening and opening and opening and opening. I was like, wow, this could just go on forever. And it did.

[Katherine Legge]

And it is.

[Michael Patrick King]

But, you know, talk about the. Speaking of going on forever, talking about the embarrassment, the journey that you took from that first up the butt comedy horrified Kristen to all the way to end just like that, which was the scene where you had to hold. You're gonna blow Harry in the bathroom. And we had a prosthetic penis made. And it was.

[Kristen Davis]

Just say how beautiful it was, though. Okay. It was very beautiful.

[Michael Patrick King]

It was a. Well, you know, I wanted to, you know, make Harry do justice.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

Do justice to the story that Harry and Charlotte have a great sex life. But anyway, there was this beautiful penis where.

[Kristen Davis]

Beautiful fake.

[Michael Patrick King]

And we've never seen Charlotte actually touch it. We've hinted through the many years. Many years that she's kind of great and wild in bed.

[Kristen Davis]

Right? She has that side.

[Michael Patrick King]

She has that side. Like, she's open and willing. We're married about totally.

[Kristen Davis]

Thank God.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah. But you're kneeling on the floor take after take after take with this fake penis totally embracing. And then Kathy Ang, who plays Lily, is opening the door at the wrong time. And you're like, no, baby, it has to be after I hold the penis. Just wait a couple seconds till the penis is in my hand. And I literally went into you afterwards and said, you're my favorite ever. The attitude around kneeling on a floor in front of your family, the crew.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

Gently telling Kathy, a younger actor, that she can't open the door till you have the fake penis in your hand with the best attitude. And I think you said most fun day ever at the end.

[Kristen Davis]

It was fun. It was really fun.

[Michael Patrick King]

And that's the journey.

[Kristen Davis]

That is the journey. And I think, like, for me, and this is the part where, I mean, I kind of am like, the thing about. Are you with Charlotte? And let's pause for a second and give Michael full credit. So we're working on it. Just like that the idea of this podcast has come to me. This is now like, I think the third or fourth. I mean, people are continually trying to get all of us to do podcasts, which is of course very flattering, but it wasn't the right time. And, you know, Willie, you know, and I were gonna do one, and then we did the show instead. And so then again, this new idea came and I was at work with Michael and I was like, michael, I just want to run this thing by you. You know, we're thinking about this and we're thinking about talking about the themes, the themes of. And I think I'm like two sentences in. And Michael says, this is how Michael works. He's like a pure creative. I'm two sentences in. I'm nervously telling him, thinking that he's not gonna approve. And he says, I have a name. And I'm like, oh, okay, what is it? And you said, are you a Charlotte? And I was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. This is the joy that you are. You know, he's just firing on all cylinders at all times. You are. I'm just talking to them now. But wait, I want to say this about Charlotte. What I was going to say was part of me. So, like, if you think about Charlotte in the beginning, even in her kind of unformed self, and I think, you know the weird thing about when I was in the pilot and they tried to get me to sign a different contract saying I was recurring. Right. Do you understand that? Cause I still don't.

[Michael Patrick King]

No, I wasn't there.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. Like, what the hell? Did anyone ever say that to you when you came?

[Michael Patrick King]

No.

[Kristen Davis]

Like, we don't know what to do with her.

[Michael Patrick King]

No.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. Cause I think a, we were over budget, which, you know, is kind of our movie.

[Michael Patrick King]

It's kind of our brand.

[Kristen Davis]

It's our brand, you guys.

[Michael Patrick King]

It's definitely our brand. Thank God it works out.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly. And thank you. I love you.

[Michael Patrick King]

People see the money on the screen.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly. You know, so they give me this. Some line producer that I never saw again comes to my trailer one day, you know, you've signed like the seven year contract. She comes with this two page contract that says, you know, I, Kristen Davis, am playing Charlotte. She's a recurring character for $5,000 an episode. And I was like, you laugh. I was like, oh, God, oh, God, oh my God. No, I'm not close enough to the girls at that point to talk to them. Right. I don't know what to do. Call my lawyer. I'm like, what do I Do? What do I do? And he says, don't sign it. Don't sign it. And I'm like, but they're gonna come tomorrow and they're gonna ask. Cause you know me and the rules.

[Tomer Cohen]

Right?

[Michael Patrick King]

Right, right.

[Kristen Davis]

And he's like, listen, just pretend that you forgot. And I'm like, okay. So the rest of the pilot, I have to do this every day. They're like, did you bring the paperwork? I'm like, oh, my gosh. What?

[Michael Patrick King]

I'm such a dopey brunette actress. I should be blonde.

[Kristen Davis]

I'm sorry. Like the rest of them. Anyway, I never sign it. Right. And then we go off and we have that very.

[Michael Patrick King]

You did the entire pilot without signing that contract?

[Kristen Davis]

I'd sign the big fat seven year one.

[Andrew Seaman]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

But not the reoccurring.

[Kristen Davis]

But not the recurring. That would have made the first one null and void.

[Michael Patrick King]

Right, Right.

[Kristen Davis]

Cause I wanted that first one.

[Michael Patrick King]

What the hell was that?

[Kristen Davis]

Right? That's my inner thing that now comes to live. I know, but see, this is what I see when I see the beginning of the show. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's when I say I'm on a tight wire. I have inside the knowledge that someone tried to demote me. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Michael Patrick King]

Wow.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. But luckily.

[Michael Patrick King]

So everything has to be perfect.

[Kristen Davis]

Everything has to be perfect. And also, like, my. My. My spot is unfulfilled. Meaning, like, not by me, but like, they don't know what it is. You know what I'm saying?

[Michael Patrick King]

You know what I'm flashing, too?

[Kristen Davis]

What?

[Michael Patrick King]

The episode where Charlotte says to Trey's mother, the prenup. I'm worth a million.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. One of the best moments.

[Michael Patrick King]

Remember that I'm worth a million.

[Kristen Davis]

I do remember that. Vividly remember being interpreted.

[Michael Patrick King]

That was the growth of Charlotte.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

And look at the growth of you. I wouldn't sign that contract. Rather than going into them and saying, I'm worth regular series. Regular reading her this totally.

[Kristen Davis]

I know, but this is the fear. And I think back on this now.

[Michael Patrick King]

That'S interesting that you would have carried that sort of shakiness that somebody behind the scenes didn't think you belonged.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

As a regular.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. That is the truth. I understand my experience. And no one ever heard.

[Michael Patrick King]

Never heard that.

[Kristen Davis]

Explain. Never thought that even though you guys. You didn't even know.

[Michael Patrick King]

I never even heard that or thought that that was somebody.

[Kristen Davis]

You kept it as a secret.

[Michael Patrick King]

Once again, let's go back to the writing. You didn't have anything in the pilot.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly.

[Michael Patrick King]

You Would say, well, what are we gonna do with her? Maybe make her reoccurring.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

And I'm not over budget, happily blowing people. She's not the writer of it and she's not the uptight lawyer, spunky one.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

What are we gonna do with her? Make her reoccurring. Cause we don't know what the character is 100%.

[Kristen Davis]

And when you read the Candace's book, she's also not reoccurring. Right. I know. So they really tried. God, I know. So luckily, for whatever, you know, magical reason, I didn't do it. And you know, it's not like I'm the most confident and even I disagree with you.

[Michael Patrick King]

I think of everyone, I think you're one of the most level headed, smart business people that I've met. You know exactly what's what. In all these negotiations as we've gone through the years, you're the one who goes, okay, here's reality. Not what's supposed to happen. Here's the reality.

[Kristen Davis]

Some people get so mad about that too.

[Michael Patrick King]

No, I think it's, you're really smart. You're the one who goes like, okay, that would be nice. But here's what, what is happening.

[Kristen Davis]

And sometimes I'm wrong.

[Michael Patrick King]

And also weighing the reality of I want this or do I give up Totally.

[Kristen Davis]

Because to me, the work, the work is so special and so unique and amazing and once in a lifetime I am fine giving stuff up. But I wasn't fine being recurring.

[Michael Patrick King]

No, thank God. You shouldn't have.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly. So. But you knew. I did. I had a sense then.

[Michael Patrick King]

You were four.

[Kristen Davis]

I had a sense that they needed my voice.

[Michael Patrick King]

The fact that they don't know what to do with me is the reason.

[Kristen Davis]

They need me 100%. But that's such a scary place to be, you know? So like when I look at myself and also I do feel also just as a human being. Like when I watch the three of them in the pilot, I feel like they're powerful now. Yes, it's the writing, but I also feel like performance wise, like, you know, even Cynthia as Miranda when she, you know, do you remember? She pushes her up against the wall. You know what I mean?

[Michael Patrick King]

Sure.

[Kristen Davis]

I'm like, oh, God, I wish I was like that. But I'm more like, bleh, blah, blah.

[Michael Patrick King]

You're not like that at all. That's your internal projection on that orc. Okay, you're not, you're. I think if anything you're delicate.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. Okay.

[Michael Patrick King]

Which is Charlotte.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes. That's just so.

[Michael Patrick King]

I Guess you were a Charlotte even before you knew that you were a Charlotte.

[Kristen Davis]

I think that must be true. And I mean, you know, there is like this one part of me that's not a Charlotte. Right. Which is like the. When you talk about the scene with the prosthetic penis, that's the part of me where I'm like, yes, I am more bohemian and open and whatever. You know, I'm not married in life. You know what I'm saying?

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah. I'm gonna tell you a story.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, I can't wait.

[Michael Patrick King]

I'll tell you a story about how different you are than Charlotte.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, yay. I'm scared.

[Michael Patrick King]

At one point in one of the seasons, I think, like season four, at the end, on hiatus, you were gonna go on a safari.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

And you had a person, a boy to go with that then didn't happen.

[Kristen Davis]

That's right.

[Michael Patrick King]

And remember better than me because of this, you went on the safari totally alone. And it was a high end, very fancy, fancy couple driven, blissful honeymoon esque.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true.

[Michael Patrick King]

Moneyed safari.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes, yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

Where there was nobody else. Just you and this man who wound up not going.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, that one. Yes. Who shall not be named.

[Michael Patrick King]

He shall not fool. We'll call him asshole for this podcast. We'll call him asshole number five, assuming there was four others before him.

[Kristen Davis]

But at least.

[Michael Patrick King]

You went on the safari alone. Totally alone. And you told me a story that the guides were carrying you around and setting you up in these beautiful tents and things. And one of the guides said to you at one point, are you a princess? Because they did not understand the royal way that you were treating yourself alone.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true.

[Michael Patrick King]

And that's when I thought, she's so strong.

[Kristen Davis]

Aw.

[Michael Patrick King]

She's such a warrior that she did not need a man to go with her. Charlotte would have never gone at that point.

[Kristen Davis]

True, true, true.

[Michael Patrick King]

Might now. Might now. But at that point would never have gone. And I thought that was such a funny dichotomy between what people think of you as and who you really are. That sort of warrior nature. I'm an individual. I'll take my life anyway to make it my life. And I thought that was a big difference between you and the essence of Charlotte.

[Kristen Davis]

Thanks, babe. It's true, it's true. It's well put. It's funny. Cause the thing that they asked me many times before they finally asked me if I was a princess was, where is your husband? Where is your husband? Then they say, where's your father? And I'd just be like, oh, my God. I mean, obviously cultural differences, but still, you know.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah. I went to Mexico once while we were doing the show by myself, and they kept saying, senor, where's your wife? Where's your wife? And they would play mariachi and they'd get to my table and just go, just move over to the next couple.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Patrick King]

That idea of the humiliation of being single is really one of the things that fueled my birthright into this series.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

Not the fact that I was a woman or not the fact that I was a single lady, but the fact that I was an outsider, which is what the. In the society, which is I was a gay man who couldn't get married at the time.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

So it's an interesting thing. The outsiderness, the anarchy of that was really the thing that I found so thrilling to write. All the humiliation that happened so much.

[Kristen Davis]

And there's so much and it's ongoing.

[Michael Patrick King]

That was why people related to it. I think the audiences that were single related to the constant humiliation and then the constant getting back up and going on the safari alone or just going to the party by yourself.

[Kristen Davis]

Right, right.

[Michael Patrick King]

Small giant.

[Kristen Davis]

Never ends, man.

[Michael Patrick King]

It never ends.

[Kristen Davis]

I know.

[Michael Patrick King]

It never ends.

[Kristen Davis]

The weddings are the worst, though. The weddings are the worst. Which we say we're the best. Merry pigs or the best, I guess.

[Michael Patrick King]

Oh, yeah. Bay Mary pigs. The weddings. Yeah.

[Tomer Cohen]

I started to live a double life when I was a teenager. Responsible and driven and wild and out of control. My head is pounding. I'm confused. I don't know why I'm in jail. It's hard to understand what hope is when you're trapped in a cycle of addiction. Addiction took me to the darkest places. I had an AK47 pointed at my head. But one night, a new door opened, and I made it into the rooms of recovery. The path would have roadblocks and detours, stalls and relapses. But when I was feeling the most lost, I found hope with community, and I made my way back. This season. Join me on my journey through addiction and recovery. A story told in 12 steps. Listen to Kremlin as part of the Mike Oluda Podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Michael Patrick King]

When I smoke weed, I get lost in the music. I like to isolate each instrument. The rhythmic bass, the harmonies on the piano. Sticky melody.

[Kristen Davis]

Careful, babe, there's someone crossing the street.

[Michael Patrick King]

Sorry, I didn't see him there.

[Kristen Davis]

If you feel different, you drive different.

[Michael Patrick King]

Don't drive high.

[Kristen Davis]

It's dangerous and Illegal everywhere. A message from NHTSA and the AD Council.

[Katherine Legge]

Hey, you guys, I'm Kathryn Legge. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet. And I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season, I'm gearing up to make make history, competing in some of the world's most notorious racing events, starting at the Indy 500. Join me as I travel from racetrack to racetrack in my quest to continue a memorable career in racing. I'm also going to bring you inside stories with legends of sports, new faces from the next generation of auto racing, and conversations with the people who've supported me throughout my career. We'll be getting into everything from karting to nascar, even Formula one. Whether you dream about being a pro athlete or an astronaut, we're talking about what it takes to make it. Listen to Throttle Therapy with Katherine Legg, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tomer Cohen]

Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iheart Women's Sports.

[Unknown]

Hey, y'all. This is Reed from the God's country podcast. We had the one and only Bobby Bones in the studio this week, and we cover everything from his upbringing to his outdoor experiences with a stepdad, AR Keith, to the state of country music. We may even end the episode with a little jam session led by Bobby himself. Y'all be sure and listen to this episode of God's country with Bobby bones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Don't go shopping at Target with khaki.

[Michael Patrick King]

Pants and a red shirt on. Don't go shopping at Target with khaki pants and a red polo shirt on.

[Kristen Davis]

Switch up song.

[Michael Patrick King]

An old lady came up to me. She said, how much for this Cream of Wheat?

[Kristen Davis]

It's just so amazing to think about how long. Right. So remember, she's on the street with Stanford, and they've run into that guy who. He's like, I haven't seen you since. And he says, since I was straight. And I mean, and then they can't technically get married, but they're all getting married with the lays. And Stanford makes funny jokes about it. I mean, it's insane to think about.

[Michael Patrick King]

Well, it's also incredibly, I think, oddly still ahead of the curve.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

Unfortunately, society has not yet got the message to stop treating people this way.

[Kristen Davis]

I know it's still.

[Michael Patrick King]

And, you know, we're dealing with it. And just like that, we're dealing like, oh, you're 50 something. You should be further along. And people are like, what? No, we're humans. But when I saw Bay and Mary Pigs, I was like, wow, it's comic.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

It's humiliating. And the other thing that surprised me was how involved it all was already.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

I mean, Charlotte goes all the way to China, pick China out with that guy.

[Kristen Davis]

I know.

[Michael Patrick King]

I mean, I was like, wow. We just kept going.

[Kristen Davis]

I don't even remember him at all.

[Michael Patrick King]

Well, no.

[Kristen Davis]

And I was just like, do you remember how Trey and I go and pick China in Bergdorf? Eventually, yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

But the idea, the DNA is there. I mean, the fact of the matter is, what was so thrilling for me to write it is stuff that, you know, network sitcoms were 23 minutes, right? 23. Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

Character goes out the window, you don't get that extra bump. Samantha and the Irish Doorman.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God, it's so great.

[Michael Patrick King]

That is so me. When he says, I shall. I've just been so sad since I left home. I'm longing for the touch of a woman that is. And that actor.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God. Who is he and where is he?

[Michael Patrick King]

I don't know.

[Kristen Davis]

Why didn't we keep him? Michael?

[Michael Patrick King]

Nicole Hollisner. Nicole Holliscenter directed.

[Kristen Davis]

Can you believe she directed so early?

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah, I was stoked.

[Kristen Davis]

I had no idea.

[Michael Patrick King]

Nicole Hollisner is amazing director, but one of her super, super, super, super powers. And I have this too. I'm un unabashedly bragging is casting.

[Kristen Davis]

You are amazing.

[Michael Patrick King]

You know, you know what that is. But Nicole with straight guys. Nicole cast those straight guys. That guy, that married couple that Carrie has lunch with.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So good.

[Michael Patrick King]

Adorable.

[Kristen Davis]

They're so good.

[Michael Patrick King]

And so when you see the writing and the performing, I'm like, this is very. Sorry, I'm gonna say it. This is very high quality. 100% for the third episode in terms of people talk. I mean, the jokes are there. The pepper mill, Dick and which.

[Kristen Davis]

I remember that whole scene.

[Michael Patrick King]

I remember that too.

[Kristen Davis]

They went on to get that pepper mill to arrive at the right time. That was like such a. That was like a. Like a lab of like us learning how to do a coffee shop scene that we would do many, many, many, many, many, many, many times. But back then, we didn't have enough time.

[Michael Patrick King]

No.

[Kristen Davis]

Because we were like, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Trying to get it all in, but trying to get it all, all orchestrated. And all of us talking. Remember how you were like, talk faster Talk faster.

[Emilia]

Well, that's.

[Unknown]

That's.

[Michael Patrick King]

Now that's good. And I wasn't even directing, just the writer on the end saying, talk faster.

[Kristen Davis]

You'll be there. Well, because we had to get the. You know, and this is why in the trailer, at that point, we were all in the trailer together, all writing our line, so that when we got out there, you didn't yell at us or. No, nobody yelled at us.

[Michael Patrick King]

Not.

[Kristen Davis]

Not just you. You know, we had to be like, not just me, not just Michael, just me. Well, because we were tired, too. You know what I mean? And it was a lot. But, like, that dialogue, it was. It was a different. That's the first time in terms of the show where I'm watching back in the beginning, where I'm like, yes, that's.

[Michael Patrick King]

The thing that became the thing.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes. And that's the thing that's so hard as an actor to do. And when people come on as guest stars, they're like, oh, my God, it's so hard.

[Michael Patrick King]

But even Charlotte, when she goes to the party, she's dropping all the really specific. This is a classic six on the Upper west side. No man would ever have this unless he was. He's gonna ask you to marry him.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

And then he does. I mean, and then she's like. Then she takes it to the next level. And then the comedy is the china patterns. It couldn't work.

[Kristen Davis]

I know. And for sure, he picks a bad one. I'm like, yeah, no, but then. But as you said, because she's picky.

[Michael Patrick King]

They all come together at the end and go to a movie. And that overview of the whole thing.

[Kristen Davis]

About, like, the terrible moon.

[Michael Patrick King]

The terrible moon. The terrible, cheesy, cheesy.

[Kristen Davis]

Can you believe how far we've come?

[Michael Patrick King]

Oh, that's what I was.

[Kristen Davis]

You said the production values. And I was like, this is what he was talking about.

[Michael Patrick King]

What about Charlotte's bedroom?

[Kristen Davis]

I mean, I know I had two flats. I couldn't believe I had a hallway. Okay. Because in the beginning, I only had two flats. And I don't know how they made that hallway come. But also, like, I'm so sad. Like, it's another growth thing of Charlotte. Like that kid, that guy talking about how he just needed the touch of a woman in the Irish accent. And I just make a face at him. It's so sad.

[Michael Patrick King]

Charlie, just a doorman in your house.

[Kristen Davis]

Well, that's true. And that is, I guess, what Charlotte went on. It is inappropriate and confusing, but he's just. Oh, my God.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah, he's Dreamy. He's haunted. He has the sad, Irish, haunted, broken soul.

[Kristen Davis]

I love that. I love it so much.

[Michael Patrick King]

But it's just so. That's why I was so happy there. Because the idea of her coming home, Charlotte taking Samantha home, which is never.

[Kristen Davis]

Good when you do, by the way, never goes well.

[Michael Patrick King]

Never goes well.

[Kristen Davis]

When she comes to the brother's there actual environment.

[Michael Patrick King]

I mean, she slept with your brother. That other episode, which is, by the way, one of the big missteps of the entire series.

[Kristen Davis]

I am with you, brother.

[Michael Patrick King]

That shouldn't have happened.

[Kristen Davis]

That was very confusing.

[Michael Patrick King]

There's like two things that I go, what's the other thing that we talked about? Carrie's father.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

Cause she's a child in the Ron Rivkin episode. Right. That we actually show a picture of her. Right. In a drawer in a book.

[Tomer Cohen]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

And I was just like, this is so. We're on such thin ice. Let's get off this right now. And even Charlotte's wedding, we didn't even introduce the parents. Cause I was not interested.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. And let's just. Cause people have asked me that occasionally over the years. Like, why? What was the thinking that you wouldn't do backstory, you know what I'm saying?

[Michael Patrick King]

Because when you moved to New York, or my experience of moving to New York at 20, whose parents do you meet?

[Kristen Davis]

Good point.

[Michael Patrick King]

You never do.

[Kristen Davis]

So true.

[Michael Patrick King]

I mean, it's like you meet your friends, you never meet their parents.

[Kristen Davis]

So true.

[Michael Patrick King]

Maybe you do. And all of a sudden, what I became very aware of is that you guys were becoming so vibrant that to bring a parent in is never gonna measure up. It's gonna be disappointing. Oh, like, who's Carrie's mother? Who's Charlotte's mother? Barbara Perkins? Maybe. Maybe. But then what? Then you're doing that story. And the only parents we brought in was Miranda's mother, who we killed. Never saw her.

[Kristen Davis]

It was a great episode.

[Michael Patrick King]

And we brought in the husband's mothers. Cause they completely affected the main characters.

[Kristen Davis]

Good point.

[Michael Patrick King]

Trey's mother affected Charlotte and Miranda's mother. Steve's mother affected Miranda's story. But it was. What are we gonna get from bringing in these people that were sort of. They all met, like alchemy, alchemically, in New York. They didn't need any backstory to know each other. I don't know. I don't think I ever met anybody. When I was in 30 in New York, did I meet anybody's parents? Not until they started getting married and shit.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

But when Charlotte got married I was like, no, I don't want to see the father. It's not their story. It's the story of. I jerked off. He jerked off.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes, I know.

[Michael Patrick King]

Maybe he jerked off right before. That's the story. You and Carrie and just. You actually only see a shoulder.

[Kristen Davis]

Right. I remember.

[Michael Patrick King]

Whoever your father was, I remember that.

[Kristen Davis]

I remember that.

[Michael Patrick King]

I think somebody's dancing with. You're dancing with somebody's father. Somebody's dancing with. Carrie's dancing with somebody. Somebody that's like an uncle or maybe. Maybe the groom's father.

[Kristen Davis]

I forgot.

[Michael Patrick King]

I don't remember.

[Kristen Davis]

I don't know.

[Michael Patrick King]

But it's always treacherous. That's not what this show was.

[Kristen Davis]

Got it.

[Michael Patrick King]

The show was about the friendships of the family you make.

[Kristen Davis]

Totally the family you make. This is important.

[Michael Patrick King]

The family you make. And I learned the lesson when we were talking about who Steve's mother was. Every single writer in the room had a different idea of who Steve's mother was. I was like, oh, this is a nightmare. So I'm just gonna do mine.

[Kristen Davis]

I love it. Which is the alcoholic. Rightly so. Okay, Michael, obviously you and I can talk forever.

[Michael Patrick King]

For better and for worse.

[Kristen Davis]

Exactly. I hope everyone's enjoying it. We're gonna make this into two episodes. Is that okay?

[Michael Patrick King]

Two?

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah. At least.

[Michael Patrick King]

Sure. At least.

[Kristen Davis]

So you can stay and talk some more?

[Michael Patrick King]

Of course.

[Andrew Seaman]

Did you know that 70% of people get hired at companies where they already have a connection? I'm Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn's editor at large for jobs and career development. And on my podcast, Get Hired, I bring you all the information you need to, well, get hired. Landing a job may be tough, but Get Hired is here for you every step of the way, with advice on resumes, networking, negotiation, and so much more. Listen to Get Hired with Andrew seaman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you like to listen.

[Tomer Cohen]

I'm Tomer Cohen, LinkedIn's chief product officer. If you're just as curious as I am about the way things are built, then tune into my podcast, Building One. I speak with some of the best product builders out there.

[Michael Patrick King]

I've always been inspired by frustration.

[Kristen Davis]

It came back to my own personal pinpoint. So we had to go out to farmers and convince them.

[Unknown]

Following that, curiosity is a superpower.

[Michael Patrick King]

You have to be obsessed with the human condition.

[Unknown]

Listen to building one on the iHeartRadio.

[Michael Patrick King]

App, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Emilia]

Tickets are on sale now, y'all, for our 2025 I Heart Country Festival, presented by Capital One Half happening Saturday May 3rd at the Moody center in Austin, Texas. Don't miss your chance to see Brooks and Dunn Thomas Rhett, Rascal Flatts, Cole Swindell, Sam Hunt, Megan Maroney, Bailey Zimmerman, Nate Smith. Tickets are on sale [e-mail] I'm Emilia.

[Tomer Cohen]

Host of the podcast Crumbs. For years, I had to rely on other people to tell me my story, and what I heard wasn't good. You really? Last night, it felt like I lived most of my life in a blackout. I was trapped in addiction. I had to grab the lamp and smashed it against the wall. And then I decided I wanted to tell my own story. Listen to crumbs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.