The Writing's on the Wall with Cindy Chupack (S2 E11 "Evolution")

Summary

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Are You A Charlotte? – "The Writing's on the Wall with Cindy Chupack"

Season 2, Episode 11: “Evolution”
Release Date: August 25, 2025
Host: Kristin Davis | Guest: Cindy Chupack

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Episode Overview

This episode features Kristin Davis (Charlotte York from "Sex and the City") in conversation with acclaimed writer and producer Cindy Chupack. The main theme centers on the creative evolution and behind-the-scenes stories from "Sex and the City," particularly focusing on the episode “Evolution” (S2E11). Cindy shares insights from her time joining the show, how real-life experiences shaped storylines, and the enduring impact of SATC on women’s storytelling in television.

A blend of nostalgia, industry candor, and humor, the conversation explores the intersection of writing, acting, and personal growth—from the early days of SATC to the modern day, including the legacy show “And Just Like That.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cindy Chupack’s Path to SATC

• Transition from “Everybody Loves Raymond” to “Sex and the City” (03:19–06:03)
  • Cindy describes the “affair” she had with "Sex and the City" while working on "Everybody Loves Raymond," guided by her friend Jenny Bicks (writer on SATC).
  • "I was so excited to pitch because everything I had written... everything could work on that show. Because I was the same age as you guys at that time. It just felt like everything I talked to my friends about and everything I wondered about." — Cindy Chupack (06:13)
• First Impressions of SATC’s Impact
  • Watching the baby shower episode at work, Cindy found herself deeply moved:
    "I was sitting there, and I was, like, crying by the end of it. I couldn’t believe how much it spoke to what I thought about and how deep it was to me." — Cindy (06:42)

2. On Writing Iconic Episodes & Using Real Life as Inspiration

• “Chicken Dance” Episode Origins (07:39–13:26)
  • Cindy wrote this classic episode as a freelancer; the story was rooted in personal experience—hosting people at her house who got engaged, mirroring Charlotte’s arc.
  • “Everything… My boyfriend at the time… he had given me the pink toothbrush head, which was big to me… they met, got engaged, we’re getting married, and he’s just my date.” — Cindy (12:29)
• How Close Were Stories to Real Life?
  • Kristin explains that stories were from the writers’ lives, not the actors’, often “once removed.”

3. The Atmosphere and Legacy of SATC

• Lightning in a Bottle (10:02–10:41)
  • “I feel like this is everybody. Lightning in a bottle.” — Cindy
  • Kristin recalls not realizing the import until Season 3 but remembers the “joy of the actual experience.”
• The Rare Female Focus & Industry Changes
  • “It was never could just be about friendship and dating… in the way that [SATC] was.” — Cindy (16:51)
• Impact on Social Discourse
  • Both reflect on how SATC catalyzed open conversations about formerly taboo topics, changing the landscape for women both on- and off-screen.
    • “When we were out at flight, there was still things to be said that people hadn’t said aloud. And now I feel like… maybe even partly because of us.” — Cindy (11:40)

4. Behind the Scenes: Writers, Actors, & Collaboration

• The Unique Set Dynamic (33:36–40:36)
  • The show’s collaborative spirit: writers frequently on set, accessible to actors, unusual in the industry.
  • “We got to really, like, see the process. And also, it was great for us because… if we had a question, we could just go over to you and… check in with you guys, which was amazing.” — Kristin (34:20)
• Comedy Writing & Word Precision
  • The importance of exact dialogue for comedic rhythm and character specificity; Kristin notes the struggle when transitioning to “And Just Like That” for new actors.
  • “It’s very specific, you know, and each character is also very specific from each other. And like, my rhythm of talking… is not the same as Charlotte’s syntax.” — Kristin (39:22)

5. Episode “Evolution” (S2E11) Deep Dive

• Notable Themes and Storylines Explored (47:47–57:27)
  • Egg Freezing & Fertility (Miranda’s Arc):
    • Early mainstream discussion of egg freezing—then a new and often misunderstood concept.
    • “That’s how new egg freezing was… everyone was like, wait, what do you mean?” — Kristin (19:39)
  • Samantha’s Heartbreak:
    • Samantha’s storyline flips expectations with her being the one hurt by an old flame.
    • “There’s a moment where Charlotte is like, Samantha getting her heart broken was more confusing to Charlotte than a kiss from a gay man.” — Cindy (48:08)
  • Charlotte’s “Gay/Straight Chef” Storyline (with Dan Futterman):
    • The humor and confusion of sexuality labels at the time—“metrosexual,” gay/straight binaries—and how the storyline would be written differently today.
    • “At the time it seemed hilarious and forward thinking and now… I’m embarrassed that that was how we talked about it.” — Cindy (52:21)
    • Playful deconstruction, “I’m a pastry chef who lives in Chelsea. If I were gay, I would be gay.” — Dan Futterman’s character, as recalled by Cindy (57:12)
  • Reflection on Cultural Change
    • The writers note that certain elements haven’t aged perfectly, but defend the truth and specificity of the stories for their time.

6. The Emotional Depth of SATC

• Depicting Loss and Fertility Struggles
  • Cindy and Kristin discuss writing and performing the miscarriage and adoption arcs, recognizing only later how well the show captured those emotions, despite not having lived through them personally at the time (20:16–22:29).
  • “Sometimes when you’re writing and, you know, like, something’s going to be a real gut punch, you can feel it in your gut.” — Cindy (22:52)
  • Kristin: “Our show has the ability to have the incredibly serious storylines, but still be able to get out, you know, to come to a place.”

7. The Ongoing Relevance — and “And Just Like That”

• SATC’s Longevity & Cultural Evolution
  • Kristin observes that streaming has brought a new generation to the show: “All these new people discovered it… being on Netflix, right?”
  • “The joy of podcasting… all these people who’ve been our fans forever or new people can hear about what it was like to create it.” — Kristin (24:06)
• Reflecting on “And Just Like That”
  • Candidly naming the gap between fan expectations and the actual messy realities of aging:
    • “Maybe we were a little bit overly ambitious, thinking that our fans… wouldn’t want to see us, like, aging and talking about death and cancer… and then everybody was like, what are they doing?” — Kristin (25:21)

8. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “I was already in love with this whole process of these people.” — Cindy (14:45)
• “The beauty of Charlotte: I think she was, like, very optimistic… and she was also like, she was going to work hard, she was not going to give up, you know. Gotta love that.” — Kristin (41:54)
• “You can tell any individual story that’s true, and that’s true to you…” — Cindy (54:29)
• “As someone who’s been confused myself and married someone who realized he was gay after being married, I feel uniquely qualified to say that. It’s confusing sometimes.” — Cindy (56:39)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:19] – Cindy joins SATC, origins
• [06:40] – Emotional power of early episodes, “Baby Shower” moment
• [07:39] – “Chicken Dance” and real-life inspiration
• [11:34] – SATC as cultural trailblazer, HBO’s freedom, writing taboos
• [12:07] – Freelance process and spec writing for SATC
• [19:01] – Breaking down “Evolution”: egg freezing, social commentary
• [20:45] – Authenticity and emotional range in fertility storylines
• [33:36] – Unique, collaborative on-set writing culture
• [39:22] – The challenge of maintaining comedy’s rhythm
• [47:47] – Episode “Evolution” analysis: storylines, guest stars, themes
• [52:21] – “Gay or straight men” storyline, what’s aged and what hasn’t
• [56:39] – Personal note on sexuality and confusion, Cindy’s experience

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Tone & Style Notes

• Lighthearted, honest, conversational—Kristin and Cindy both balance reverence for their work with candid acknowledgment of past norms and their evolution.
• Nuanced and self-reflective—willing to critique their own work while expressing lasting pride and affection for the entire creative journey.

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For Listeners: Why This Episode Stands Out

• Offers a rare, inside look at how the personal and collective lives of writers directly shaped the SATC universe.
• Illuminates how much has changed in both television and cultural conversations around relationships, sexuality, and women’s lives.
• Brims with gratitude, self-effacing anecdotes, and genuine affection among creators—the “lightning in a bottle” that made SATC era-defining.
• Navigates the timeless vs. time-bound aspects of storytelling, and the ongoing ripple effect of pioneering female-driven television.

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Recommended for:

Fans of SATC and "And Just Like That," aspiring writers, media/TV history buffs, and anyone interested in how truthful, funny storytelling finds its way into pop culture and hearts worldwide.

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Transcript

[Kristin Davis]

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[Cindy Schumach]

Back to the Future was released 40.

[Kristin Davis]

Years ago this summer, but the original star was just not feeling the story and was fired after most of the filming was done. Turns out a lot of stars have.

[Cindy Schumach]

Made blockbusters they hated. Check out the backstory with Patty Steele.

[Kristin Davis]

On the iHeartRadio app. Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? You guys, it's an exciting day, and are you a Charlotte? Because Cindy Schumach is here. We have been waiting, so excited for you to come. Cindy came to be on the show as a writer originally. She's going to tell us all about it in 1999, many years ago. And you and Jenny then, in my mind, became like, this super powerhouse pair who really, like, took the reins of the female voice. You know, people would sometimes complain thinking we only had male writers because Darren was so out front and then Michael, Patrick. But really, we always had you guys in my mind, you know, and you really had such a really incredible input in terms of, like, your own stories. And, you know, like, for Charlotte, some of them were just, like, so important from both you and Jenny. And, like, for me, when I think of the show, that. That really, you know, was the heart and the soul and the foundation of, like, where our characters got to go and deepen into. So we're super excited to have you. Yes.

[Cindy Schumach]

I mean, it's funny because Michael, to me, Michael could write anybody, and he could write, of course. And I know you don't. You mean that, but yeah. Jenny was actually a friend I had made before I came aboard the show. I didn't know this, and I was working on Everybody Loves Raymond.

[Kristin Davis]

Well, I didn't remember this either.

[Cindy Schumach]

This is a big thing because I. It was sort of like I had an affair with Sex and the City because I had been working with a writing partner for, like, seven years. And on the side, I used to write these columns, like once a year, this thing about dating for Glamour. And. And then I could never use those as samples because when you're working with a partner, you have to do things you did together.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

And I was working. She had kids already. So we had been on all sorts of shows that weren't at all about what I was living. Interesting. And we were finally at a point where we were going to separate. And Phil Rosenthal, who ran Everybody Loves Raymond, let us each write an episode. So I had my own episode of Everybody Loves Raymond. And then I was going to write a spec. And Sex and the City had just started. It was in season one, and I knew Jenny was working on it, and I told her I was gonna write a pack. And she's like, you should come in and freelance. Like, you should come in and pitch.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cindy Schumach]

So that's what Phil let me do from Everybody Loves Raymond.

[Kristin Davis]

I love Phil.

[Cindy Schumach]

I mean, me too. I don't think he. I mean, I think he regrets it maybe still, but which I didn't realize.

[Kristin Davis]

I appreciate that.

[Cindy Schumach]

I.

[Kristin Davis]

We all really appreciate that you let Cindy cheat on everybody with us. I know. He's a good guy. He's amazing. He's a really.

[Cindy Schumach]

And those were great writers. Like, that was a great. We were finally. I was finally on a good show that was going to last on Raymond. So my dad, who was an accountant, was like, what are you doing? But I. From the minute I pitched to Michael and Darren and Jenny encouraged me, which was so nice of her, to share that. Like, so it was. It was like, I was so excited to pitch because everything I had written in a little journal of things I wanted to write about or essays or a movie I might want to write, everything could work on that show. Because I was the same age as you guys at that time. It just felt like everything I talked to my friends about and everything I wondered about, and in fact, I was at Everybody Loves Raymond. See, this is such a long answer.

[Kristin Davis]

No, it's good. We love a long answer.

[Cindy Schumach]

I was at Everybody Loves Raymond, and one of the guys brought in vcr. Remember that of Sex and the City? And he's like, my wife loves this show. I don't get it. It was at lunch. It was the baby shower episode, and I hadn't seen it. And I remember all the boys slowly trickled out. It was mostly men on the show, of course, at Raymond. And they all trickled out and went to lunch. And I was sitting there, and I was, like, crying by the end of it. I couldn't believe how much it spoke to. About what I thought about and how deep it was to me. And the idea of, are you gonna have a kid? And then remember she had taken your baby name.

[Kristin Davis]

I do remember.

[Cindy Schumach]

There was such big laughs. But there were also just, to me, these really deep, meaningful conversations.

[Kristin Davis]

Absolutely.

[Cindy Schumach]

That I hadn't heard. And so I was, like, enamored of the show. And so I went and pitched And Michael. And they. So that's when I did the episode the Chicken Dance as a freelancer.

[Kristin Davis]

So I did not realize you were a freelancer. And you did, like, a absolutely iconic episode. Oh, thank you. Cynthia and I just talked about it last week, and Cynthia said. Because they were asking me, where are you? In the. In the. Re. Watching. And I told them, and I said, you know, Cindy couldn't come on for Chicken Dance, but she's coming on for the next one. And Cindy said, oh, I recommend Chicken Dance to anyone who hasn't seen the show or young people who want to see it for the first time because it's not particularly dirty.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

But gets the gist of the four women characters.

[Cindy Schumach]

Oh, interesting.

[Kristin Davis]

And that was. I thought that was so smart because all I remembered about the Chicken Dance was the difficult storyline that I have, which is, you know, the groomsman's father groping me on the dance floor. So when I.

[Cindy Schumach]

But you had, like, an immediate. You had an entire relationship during the wedding with.

[Kristin Davis]

Which was also so bizarre.

[Cindy Schumach]

And I remember thinking of it exactly.

[Kristin Davis]

Because that's what's so much fun about rewatching. There's so many great things. One is that there are things I remember really vividly, and then there's things where there's just nothing.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right. I'm like.

[Kristin Davis]

I never know what I'm gonna do. Like. Like in the one that Jenny had written, the threesome one where I'm having a dream and it looks like I'm about to have a threesome, I was.

[Cindy Schumach]

Like, am I gonna have a threesome? I don't remember that. Oh, my God.

[Kristin Davis]

How brave of Charlotte. You know what I mean? But no, no, no. It was just a dream I didn't have. I literally don't know. And also, in the. In the Chicken dance, I don't remember going up to the room that I'm preparing for the bride and groom and having sex there with that dude. Very subversive, which obviously, I didn't really have sex with him, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah. Pretty subversive for Charlotte.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

And she does a lot of stuff. But then we come down and he tells me that I look like a whore in my beautiful dress. And I'm like, oh. But I think. And it's a good example because I think what you do so brilliantly and really all of our writers. But when you came, you could get the embarrassment, the kind of going out on a limb emotionally with the humor, with the depth, all of those things. And that's the Specialness of the show, I think, and the writing is the reason for it.

[Cindy Schumach]

Well, and then that you guys could carry off anything that was so fun. It was like.

[Kristin Davis]

But you guys, you know, you don't really have writing like that very often where it's really asking you to fire on all cylinders.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

You know, that's what I feel like.

[Cindy Schumach]

I remember about the show is just everybody was firing on all cylinders. And I feel like I knew it at the time.

[Kristin Davis]

You did.

[Cindy Schumach]

I mean, partway in I was thinking, this is going to be the best job I ever have. And that's either sad or just like amazing that I'm here right now. But I felt like the actors, the costume, the directors we were getting and you know, from the moment of like nobody's heard of the show and somebody brought it in on a tape too. Like, I think when I joined you guys, that was the first year at the Golden Globes and we were like jumping up and down in the kitchen and like suddenly people were watching and then we'd walk around New York and you'd hear people talking about it. Yeah. So not only did I love what we were doing and who I was working with, but people were. It was in the zeitgeist.

[Kristin Davis]

Very. Yeah.

[Cindy Schumach]

So, yeah, I felt like this is everybody. Lightning in a bottle.

[Kristin Davis]

Amazing. Yes, absolutely. And smart that you knew it. I mean, I don't know that I really knew it until I feel like I knew it third season.

[Cindy Schumach]

But maybe I probably didn't know right away.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

I just was happy to be there.

[Kristin Davis]

The joy of the actual experience was what. What was, you know, so amazing because you don't always have that. Right. You could be on an amazing show. Everybody Loves Raymond is an amazing show. But like, like you said, it wasn't necessarily what you were thinking about in life.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

And that was true for me also, obviously with Sex and City. I'm a single 35 year old, whatever, 34. I don't know how old we were. Something.

[Cindy Schumach]

30.

[Kristin Davis]

Something.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

And you know, the things that you are already thinking of and talking about and or curious about or whatever is their story. It's crazy. Like so unusual and obviously hadn't happened then and I don't know really has happened again because I think we had kind of a unique situation in terms of HBO allowing us, you know, to do whatever we wanted.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah. And I think so much there's very little that's not said anymore.

[Kristin Davis]

Well, this is true.

[Cindy Schumach]

When we were out at flight, there was still things to be said that people hadn't said aloud. And now I feel like that's very true, maybe even partly because of us. Not to take credit for that, but I feel like my friends who didn't used to talk about some of those things that we talked about then would. And men would, too. And so. And now everybody writes their own every. You know, Everybody says everything 100.

[Kristin Davis]

Absolutely. Right. So tell us back. So you wrote the chicken dance on spec. So for anyone listening who doesn't really know what that means, tell us exactly what on spec means as a freelancer.

[Cindy Schumach]

So I came in and pitched, and they listened to a few ideas. They liked that idea. That was really what was happening in my life right then. I had bought this house on my own, and somebody. Everybody said, like, as soon as you buy a place, someone will propose. And then I had people house sitting and they got engaged at my house. Oh, my God. And I was like, it's supposed to be to me. And they had me write a poem for their wedding. So everything.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Cindy Schumach]

My boyfriend at the time. No, no.

[Kristin Davis]

He got up and left while you were reading the poem.

[Cindy Schumach]

He didn't get up and leave, but he had given me the pink toothbrush head, which was, like, big to me.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Cindy Schumach]

But then it's like they met, got engaged, we're getting married, and he's just my date. And that's as far as I got is like the pink toothbrush head. And so I did start crying during the poem. The poem? Yeah. And I did kind of play it off as, like, I was overcome by emotion, but really I was like, what is happening? Oh, my God.

[Kristin Davis]

The other thing that I love about having a podcast and getting to discuss things like this is that, you know, there was always this kind of vague thought that the stories in the show were our actors stories, and we would always try to tell someone, no, no, no, they're not our stories. Because that'd be we. There are writers stories, and they have a agreement that everything is going to be either their story or once removed, that people know someone who's actually going through it. But to hear you how close it was to your life, and it wasn't.

[Cindy Schumach]

Always that A to B.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

But we definitely, like. Yeah, but that one, when I pitched it, they loved that idea. So I got to write that one. And then I got to come to New York and be at the table read, which to me, because I had only seen you guys on television, and even though I worked in tv, I worked in, you know, like, in front of an audience, right in four camera Right. Sitcoms. Old fashioned sitcoms. Right. And this was like, you know, you guys, I think it was at ABC Carpet during lunch when you were filming something at Equinox or something already. It felt really cool to me, but I was really intimidated. And I also was intimidated because the script you were reading, like, had come off my printer. Like it. Nobody changed very much. Like, I definitely got input when I was breaking the story and all, but it was kind of like getting your bluff called because writers always complain, you know.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

So much got changed, but I was like, why did no one help me? This is bad. This is just bad for me.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, my God. But it was so good. That's why no one changed it.

[Cindy Schumach]

And it was quiet because you guys were like grown ups and you'd have to laugh for. So the. So the network knew it was funny, like we did on a sitcom.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

So it was really quiet. And the whole time, anyway, everyone was very nice afterward. And then after that I asked my agent, like, do you think I could go on there? And so he, like asked and I got to go there. And then I think maybe they regretted letting me do it from everybody else. Raymond. But I was like, I'm already in love with this whole process of these people.

[Kristin Davis]

So then you left Everybody Loves Raymond all between seasons.

[Cindy Schumach]

And so I just didn't re up, but I think got it. Everybody thought I would because it was finally a successful show and it was really fun to write. And I wrote about my family, but it wasn't like writing Sex in the City.

[Kristin Davis]

Of course, nothing is nothing. Nothing was obviously for sure. And we're just so, so thankful that you came to us.

[Cindy Schumach]

My God, I am.

[Kristin Davis]

I did have a very weird conversation though, which kind of now has some. Some interesting backstory to it. One time with Ray Romano on television where he told me that women weren't funny. Oh, yeah.

[Cindy Schumach]

And I was like, interesting.

[Kristin Davis]

No, but we were on television, so I couldn't. Were you anything?

[Cindy Schumach]

What was that some kind of a.

[Kristin Davis]

Was it. Bill Maher used to have a show that had more than one person on.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah, yeah, maybe that show.

[Kristin Davis]

So it was like a guy based show. I think I was the only woman sitting there. Do you know what I mean? And I was kind of like. And I think we knew you'd come from there on some level at least. I was like, wait, is this a.

[Cindy Schumach]

He's the menchie guy. So I feel like, okay, maybe he was overstating, hopefully. And I just did a thing that was like a reunion of the Raymond writers. But I do remember, like, I said something funny and I remember them kind of still looking surprised that I said something for all these years.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, I do feel like, though, that's a real thing in comedy, like.

[Cindy Schumach]

Happily not surprised, like, how could you, but just surprise I said something. Yeah. I remember thinking that, like, it's a.

[Kristin Davis]

Holdover from, like, you know, it's a sexist kind of a holdover that we still need to get totally rid of.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

And that's kind of the joy of our show is that there were four of us and all of you guys started writing and writing your own stories and your women writers. And yes, there was Darren and Michael Patrick, of course. But then, like, we got more and more and we're gonna, you know, obviously as we go on, we'll get. Get everyone on, hopefully. That would be really, really fun. But, you know, just to. To be able to succeed without it being a traditional sitcom. Right. So I think women obviously had already done great over there in regular sitcom land, right. To have it be kind of like a little almost like an indie film, almost like a sitcom, you know, like we.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah, it was very different at the time.

[Kristin Davis]

Very different.

[Cindy Schumach]

Like, whenever I pitched a sort of a woman centric show, it was always like, okay, but they. They're dating, but what's their job? Or whatever. It was never could just be about friendship and dating really, in. In the way that that was.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

So it was really fun. And also, yeah, it did look very filmic. I remember people were really addicted kind of to a laugh track. So there was a lot of fear about, like, what single camera was. And there was a lot of hybrid will be kind of single camera but kind of obvious. But Sex and City did such a good job of making it filmic. And I think using music and it didn't feel quiet and empty.

[Kristin Davis]

It was like, not at all. Yeah, not at all. But also to me, even when I look back, because it is. I am so able to be more objective now than, you know, because I only would ever watch it, right, when, before it came out on hbo, they would give us the VHS and we take them home and watch them. And sometimes there'd still be, like, placeholders or whatever. Wouldn't be totally finished. Right. And then I would probably not ever see it again, you know, so I'm rewatching and so amazed by so many things and so many things. I'm like, it is so good. And I don't know that I was able to feel that at the time, like, to really see Sink In. I knew it was special and different. And I knew that our vibe when we were doing it had that, like, crackly energy of something special, you know? But then to see it now from all these many years later.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

And see how the writing holds up, how on point you guys are about so many things. Like the. The. I think this is so. This is the. Our episode that we're discussing today is Evolution, which you wrote. And Pam Thomas directs, who was great director. And I don't know why we never had her back. Maybe, you know, I don't know. We'll get this.

[Cindy Schumach]

I don't know. But she is great.

[Kristin Davis]

So great. And it's got the incredible Dan Futterman in it, which we're going to talk to next week, which will be really fun. But the thing that I'm wondering about, because I just watched this is when we have the incredible episode where Miranda talks about freezing her eggs.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yes. I just rewatched it last night, too.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

The guy with the hair plugs.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. It's so good. But also that shop where they're in the freezer and she. And Carrie says, right now there were no eggs in her freezer.

[Cindy Schumach]

Like, is that she was gonna take.

[Kristin Davis]

Her eggs and put them in the freezer.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah. But Pam Thomas did that. Great. Like, from behind me.

[Kristin Davis]

It's a great shot.

[Cindy Schumach]

And also from behind the medicine cabinet. Biggs medicine cabinet.

[Kristin Davis]

So good. I mean, she was so visual. Pam Thomas was so visual. But, like, that's how new egg freezing was. That, first of all, this jerk on this date with her is gonna, you know, criticize the idea of, you know, science, you know, creating babies or whatever. Oh, my God. And then obviously, he's just had hair plugs. So she's just like, wait. You know, which is so well written and so great. But also the fact that then she goes into her freezer and there's vodka in there. And Carrie goes, you know, for now, there's no eggs in her freezer. I mean, it's so.

[Cindy Schumach]

Well, Gary knew there wouldn't be in her freezer. I know, but it's funny.

[Kristin Davis]

It's funny. And it's funny because I remember at the time, egg freezing, everyone was like, wait, what do you mean? What is it?

[Cindy Schumach]

How does it work? No, I remember liking. Should I do that?

[Kristin Davis]

Right? Should we just.

[Cindy Schumach]

Is that smart?

[Kristin Davis]

Where do you go?

[Cindy Schumach]

A fertility savings account. Right.

[Kristin Davis]

All of it was new.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

It's crazy to think about that.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

I mean, because we did write a lot from experience, but I remember when we did all the infertility stuff for Charlotte, I hadn't had children yet and, like, hadn't gone through that and then did afterward. And I remember a lot of that, I think, came from Michael Patrick King and his friends who had gone through it.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

So, again, like, the men could write the hell out of anything as well. Definitely.

[Kristin Davis]

Definitely.

[Cindy Schumach]

But I felt like later, like, wow, that we did kind of nail it. I was kind of. That was one of those things looking back, I went, oh, it. It did. I mean, I always felt like, oh, I could have added more because now I understand more. But I do feel like I felt.

[Kristin Davis]

The same thing with my acting.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

I was like, I could have gone bigger.

[Cindy Schumach]

I know. Of course I could have done more.

[Kristin Davis]

I could have done more big time. I don't know if that would have been needed necessarily. But, like, once you start to go through those actual things, there is no high or low. That is too high or too low.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah. In that field. Oh, my God, yes.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

And the adoption, too, you know, like, it happens pretty. Pretty simply.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

And it's not that simple, as we both know.

[Cindy Schumach]

No, I know.

[Kristin Davis]

But I mean, I love that we did it. And maybe we. I don't even know if the show would have benefited from more detail. You know what I mean? No, it was more about the emotion.

[Cindy Schumach]

That's the thing. Yeah, that's the thing. I. Sometimes I just think back. Well, I just looked at it kind of in awe that, like, you did capture it, and it somehow captured, you know, close to what it was. But it's true. You feel like I under. Like, this is an odd thing to say on it, but I feel like I knew women who had. Had miscarriages when I was younger.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

But I didn't really know what that meant exactly to them and what kind of a loss that was, because I.

[Kristin Davis]

Don'T think people talked about it.

[Cindy Schumach]

They didn't.

[Kristin Davis]

Which is sad.

[Cindy Schumach]

And so it really didn't. Like, there were some things you kind of do have to go through to understand the depth of what it feels like to the person.

[Kristin Davis]

100.

[Cindy Schumach]

And even if you have really good friends who went through it, it's just not quite the same. So. Yeah, there were times that I thought, oh, I.

[Kristin Davis]

To say, I think with the Charlotte miscarriage, I think the writing was beautiful. And I had enough. I don't want to say loss, because that's not exactly the right word, but I had enough understanding from my friends and from just my own personal journey. Not that I had been through that then. It definitely Hadn't. But, you know, I had enough to draw on that, I think. And again, this is one of those things where, like, hindsight is 2020 in some ways, but then also, like, our show has the ability to have the incredibly serious storylines, but still be able to get out, you know, to come to a place. So, like, had we known more, have been able to get up off the sofa, get herself dressed up, and go to that party. I don't know.

[Cindy Schumach]

Well, I should say, I think for you. I'm not gonna speak for you, because you're right here, but I think for actors, maybe you're used to playing things you haven't. You don't. You know how to draw on other things. And I gu. Writer, I did the same, but just sometimes. Sometimes when you're writing and, you know, like, something's going to be a real gut punch, you can feel it in your gut.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cindy Schumach]

You don't have to have gone through it, but, like, I can feel like, oh, this almost makes me cry to write it. I know this is, like, something.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

I feel like I kind of would have had more of that feeling during maybe. But that's okay. I still am happy, very happy with how it all.

[Kristin Davis]

I love how it turned out, and I think people talk to me a lot about it now still. So, you know, over time, that that's something that people connect with. And isn't that the whole game?

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. So. So yes, we can.

[Cindy Schumach]

No, I'm so. I'm so happy that it's. I do feel like we're probably. I'm probably more critical, but I am so happy. It holds up. Like, I feel like. And that's because, really, the themes of it, the love, the friendship, the loss, the longing, the, like, loneliness, everything was a universal thing, whether you're texting or you're waiting for a phone call was universal.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes. And that's why I'm doing the podcast, really, because all these new people discovered it. But being on Netflix, right? And then I really. People had asked, you know, since podcasts became a thing, and I just didn't feel ready to look at it because we were all together, doing. And just like that, I felt like I had kind of a good vantage point of, like, well, we're here now and look at how we began. And also, I haven't watched them. And also, I really wanted everyone's stories to be told. This is the joy of podcasting.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

So all these people who've been our fans forever or new people can hear about what it was like to grow, create it. And like, you're saying, like, you know, the. The feeling of being in New York in the beginning when we didn't really know what it was going to be, but it had that, like, sizzly feeling, you know, and like that process of, like, walking around, having people start to talk to us about it and all of that, like, being there is incredible to think about. It's amazing.

[Cindy Schumach]

It was. It was really exciting.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cindy Schumach]

And it was just. I think even if it hadn't caught on, it was really nice to be writing and doing something that felt so relevant to what we were going through and what our friends were going through.

[Kristin Davis]

Absolutely, Absolutely. And I'm just going to have a little just moment to talk about. And just like that, you know, weather and just like that. Obviously never going to be Sex and City. I don't ever think we ever thought it was going to be Sex and City. But again, we wanted to tell the stories of what we're going through in our 50s.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

I think that's an important point. Right. Is that, like, here we were, it was Covid, you know, Covid had just ended. We were just able to go back out. And the thing that we had always been doing was talking about what was happening for us in our lives at this time. Not necessarily my Kristen story, but like.

[Cindy Schumach]

Like all the people we know and just like, life goes on.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cindy Schumach]

And why wouldn't that be something?

[Kristin Davis]

But I think maybe we were a little bit overly ambitious, thinking that our fans. When I'm going to laugh, I shouldn't really laugh, but it's kind of funny when I think about it now, like, how naive, in a way, at least I was, that our fans wouldn't want to see us, like, aging and talking about death and cancer.

[Cindy Schumach]

Do you know what I mean?

[Kristin Davis]

Like, we were like, yeah, let's do it. And then everybody was like, what are they doing? Do you know what I mean? And now it's over, which is sad, but I'm not really going to go there. But, you know, I'm in denial. I'm in denial because we've ended so many times. Big savings, big bold vehicles, and the perfect time to make your move. That's what the Hyundai getaway sales event is all about. And it's happening right now. Whether you're looking to upgrade your daily commute, prep for a summer of road trips, or finally make the switch to electric, Hyundai has a lineup that covers every lifestyle, every budget, and every kind of driver. Hyundai is rolling out incredible deals on some of the most award winning vehicles like the versatile Kona, the sleek Tucson, the road trip ready Santa Fe and the fully loaded family favorite Palisade prefer a tech savvy sedan. The Elantra is packed with features and the Sonata is Hyundai's most advanced yet. It's a serious standout and for those ready to go electric, Hyundai is leading the charge. The all electric Ioniq 5 and Ioniq 6 deliver bold design, ultra fast charging and seriously impressive range, all while qualifying for potential EV incentives depending on your state. But here's the part that really sets Hyundai apart. It's not just about what you drive off the lot, it's what comes with it. Every new Hyundai is backed by America's best warranty, a 10 year 100,000 mile powertrain limited warranty that's industry leading coverage that brings real peace of mind. And with three years or 36,000 miles of limited complimentary maintenance on every new 2025 model, Hyundai keeps delivering long after you've driven off the lot. You're not just buying a car, you're getting value, confidence and a company that truly has your back. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Offers end 9-2-2025 Famous Footwear has the latest styles and all the iconic brands your kids love for back to school from Nike, Adidas, Jordan brand Crocs, Converse, New Balance, Birkenstock and more. All at a great value. There's something for everyone in the family and I know for myself I cannot even keep up with the shoes that my kids want so that there are so many choices at Famous Footwear and that I can get them the next size up as soon as they outgrow the ones they have and not have to break the bank to get them. The shoes that they want is incredible. Plus they make it so incredibly easy because you can just order online because I know I don't have time to go to the shoe store. These kids grow so fast you have to just buy shoes all the time. I feel so. I love Famous Footwear because they make it so easy. It saves me so much time. They have over 830 stores. They're just around the corner from wherever you are. Plus buy online, pick up in store and same day delivery options. Powered by doordash makes shopping at Famous so easy and convenient. Kids feet grow fast. Famous Footwear has fit experts in store to make sure you get the right size every time. I like that you don't have to overspend to make it famous right now buy one pair of shoes. Get one half off at your local famous footwear store or famous.com see store associate for details. As someone who's played a gallerist and spent years walking through the art world in Heels, AG's new fall collection From Canvas to Cloth honestly feels like something Charlotte York would live in. It's inspired by artists and their studios think rich textures, beautiful craftsmanship, and pieces that feel both refined and expressive. Very Gallery opening in Chelsea meets weekend in the Hamptons. The new Boyfriend Fit jeans are my absolute favorite. They're slouchy in just the right way, flattering but relaxed and go with everything. And the collection includes soft corduroys, my favorite suede, and luxury knits that feel so timeless. AG also leads the way in lower impact denim production, which makes me feel even better about investing in these pieces because style and sustainability should go hand in hand. The From Canvas to Cloth collection is out now@ag jeans.com use code KRISTEN15 to take an exclusive 15% off your next order, even if you've already purchased from the site before. You guys. This means I can use my own code and I'm also wearing the Boyfriend jeans right now. Love them so much. Cozy up with fragrance that feels like fall and smells unforgettable. Pura's Smart Ab Control Diffusers pair with premium scents from brands like Nest New York, Capri Blue Anthropologie, and Studio McGee. Whether you're craving Spice, Pumpkin, Warm Amber or nostalgic Woody notes, there's a scent to match every mood and every space. Discover why Pura is the go to for premium home fragrances. Start your fall refresh [e-mail] have you.

[Cindy Schumach]

Ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it?

[Kristin Davis]

Maybe you felt stuck in a job.

[Cindy Schumach]

A place, or even a relationship.

[Kristin Davis]

I'm Emily Tish Sussman and on she.

[Cindy Schumach]

Pivots I dive into the inspiring pivots.

[Kristin Davis]

Of women who have taken big leaps.

[Cindy Schumach]

In their lives and careers. I'm Gretchen Whitmer.

[Kristin Davis]

Jody Sweetin. Annika Padme Elaine Welteroth I'm Jessica Voss. And that's when I was like, I gotta go. I don't know how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition.

[Cindy Schumach]

Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to be full of them. Every episode gets real about the why.

[Kristin Davis]

Behind these changes and gives you the.

[Cindy Schumach]

Inspiration and maybe the push to make your next pivot.

[Kristin Davis]

Listen to these women and more on.

[Cindy Schumach]

She Pivots now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kristin Davis]

So let's talk a little. I'm waiting here more. So you said your agent, I want to go right on that show. Could I go right on that show? He says yes, he gets you a deal over there. You leave Raymond, you move to New York.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah, Got it. Like we did, half and half.

[Kristin Davis]

Me too.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

We were all back and forth. So you kept your house here, you went to New York and then where you were, you and Jenny, you would have your own scripts.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

But you. At some point, were you consulting producers and then executive producers? What was that journey like?

[Cindy Schumach]

I can't remember. I think I was already like a co executive producer at Raymond, and I think I just came on as a consulting producer because literally it was a big pay cut from what I was doing. I was finally making money, but I was like, I don't care what the title is. And there were certain. Anyway, it was just that it was like, I'll work for whatever. And at the time. And then, of course, it was great, but I think it was just like, I don't care about the title. I just want to be there. So I started as a consulting producer.

[Kristin Davis]

Got it.

[Cindy Schumach]

And then, yeah. Eventually became a co executive producer.

[Kristin Davis]

You and Jenny both.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

And did you. Were you together with Jenny in terms of, like, we're a partnership. Co executive producer. That's how I felt you guys were, but I don't think you technically were.

[Cindy Schumach]

No, we were.

[Kristin Davis]

You're not like, Julie and Elisa are a technical partnership.

[Cindy Schumach]

I think we just, like, were in sync a lot of times. We were like the two girls. And when it was like, Michael and Darren.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah, but yeah, she means you have your own scripts.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we did. We collaborated on one like the last. We collaborated on Splat at the very end. And that was so fun to write with Jenny, so.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, my gosh.

[Cindy Schumach]

But I collaborated with Michael on a different one too, so. Yeah. But anyway, I love working with.

[Kristin Davis]

So it was like kind of a small group of writers at that point, and you would collaborate and. Or just be in the writers room together brainstorming, and then on the set with us all the time, which is the other thing people really don't realize.

[Cindy Schumach]

No.

[Kristin Davis]

And was that unusual for you at the time?

[Cindy Schumach]

Well, yeah, it was my first single camera, so I hadn't even been on those kind of sets out in the world. But also even since then, like, I've done a lot and I haven't ever been on a show where you're there that much and where even you're doing the writing there. Like either in a restaurant nearby or upstairs by the camera or on the.

[Kristin Davis]

Set with your laptop open on your.

[Cindy Schumach]

Lap, which would be Michael Patrick King. You know what I mean? She liked to be there. And, like, not all showrunners want to be there for everything. And so we would just go along and while we were still riding. But it was great because we got to really, like, see the process.

[Kristin Davis]

And also, it was great for us because, you know, if we had a question, we could just go over to you and we didn't have to worry if the director we didn't feel was, like, totally knowledgeable about the characters or the storyline or whatever, we could just check in with you guys, which was amazing.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yes.

[Kristin Davis]

Right? No.

[Cindy Schumach]

Oh, yes. No, you could. I don't know if all the directors loved that.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, maybe the directors didn't love it.

[Cindy Schumach]

You know what? On my very first. First one on chicken dance.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Cindy Schumach]

Oh, I think you asked me something, which I answered because I didn't know the protocol of all that. And then I remember the director at the time who I saw recently at a DGA thing, and she's still angry with me about this. And I was like, I didn't know. But anyway, she said something at the time like, oh, is that what we're gonna do? Good cop, bad cop? And I was like, what? I don't even know what I'm doing. I just answered a question. But oh, my God. But anyway, that was unusual. Most of them totally appreciated and it was.

[Kristin Davis]

But you never came back.

[Cindy Schumach]

So please, if you're listening, Victoria, I am sorry. I didn't know how it worked. I was new. I was just excited to be there. Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

And I'm sure I was just excited to ask you a question and you should answer.

[Cindy Schumach]

I was like, is that how we're gonna play it?

[Kristin Davis]

But you know what I think that is about, and I think it's interesting to think about it. That is about the old school TV ways.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Because there was a hierarchy.

[Cindy Schumach]

Well, and in film, it's really still the director who wants to talk to the actors.

[Kristin Davis]

The film is very different. They don't even want the writer to come.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

You should not go to a film set if you're a writer, unless you're, like, an Oscar winning writer.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right. But I remember, and this is a better experience than that. I remember. I know you had Alan Coulter on.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Cindy Schumach]

Who I loved.

[Kristin Davis]

Me too.

[Cindy Schumach]

I think I had written one. It still took me a while to understand, like, the rhythm of a film set. Because, like, you. You know, we go. We see the. As soon as you finish filming one scene, you go see rehearsal of the next scene. Nobody's in costume yet. They haven't done their hair and makeup for that scene. You see the rehearsal. Yeah. And then the director comes up. They light. There's so much that happens. Well, the rehearsal, to me, was, like, the first time hearing the actors read it since, like, the table read, maybe, and. Or there might be changes. Yeah. So I would be. I remember with Alan one time, I. I, like, had thoughts about it, and he goes, cindy. And this was nice of him to tell me, and I remember it forever. He said, this would be, like, me leaning over your shoulder while you're writing a first draft, telling you, like, what I think. Like, I'm gonna work. The actors are gonna have thoughts. And then when. If you still feel like issues. And he was right. And it took me a while to just learn the rhythm of, like, when it was okay to interject or good to interject. Cause a lot of times you guys would arrive at whatever was bothering me from the very beginning or, oh, that's good. And it was only, like, once in a while. Would there be something in the staging of the rehearsal that you knew you needed to say something because it was gonna be too late. They were gonna light you.

[Kristin Davis]

For sure. For sure.

[Cindy Schumach]

But it took me a while to learn.

[Kristin Davis]

But it makes sense, because in your mind, you have written the scene, therefore you have visualized the scene.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right?

[Kristin Davis]

And that's the weird thing about writing. Right? Is, like, in our industry, writing, of course, is tremendously important. But then sometimes you guys are kind of pushed to the side, like, please be quiet now. Which is not really fair because it's a collaborative art space that's. We don't. We can't do our job by ourselves. And you can't do your job. You can write it, but then it's just gonna be on the page. You know what I mean? And we could act by ourselves, like, on the street or whatever, but, you know, we need each other. And then the director's in the middle of it all. And depending on the director, they're either more open or less open or, you know, whatnot. I mean, everyone's different. And I also think it's so interesting, the vibe that's created. And one of the things I love about the old show and the new show is that it was always a very creative place where people. I always felt before we ever had a title or Anything. Right. That I was very included in the process in Charlotte's trajectory and her arc. You know, Mike would always sit us down at the beginning before we went to work and say, this is the plan. And then he would call us if it was changing. Or he'd come grab us on the set and say, can I talk to you? And then we would come to you, like, if we read something. I remember one time I had one of those really long Charlotte monologues where I just talk for, like, half a page or whatever, and I'm upset about something. You know what I mean? I think it was in the Trey era, and I came to you in the hallway of Silver cup, and I was like, Cindy, you know, I just feel like, you know, it's just hard to. Because Remember how we had to be word perfect?

[Cindy Schumach]

Oh, yeah. It's comedy. It's comedy.

[Kristin Davis]

It's exact. Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

It doesn't have to be that. Yeah, I agree.

[Kristin Davis]

But, you know, I mean, that was the. That was the precedent set. And I think it's a good one because it wasn't. We didn't have an audience there to tell if. Tell us if we were hitting the jokes. Right? So we had to trust the writing. You know, we had to trust the rhythms of the writing and the rhythms of the writing. And let me tell you when we did. And just like that, and we brought our new actors in. I mean, they're still talking about how hard it is.

[Cindy Schumach]

Oh, really?

[Kristin Davis]

Because it's very specific, you know, and each character is also very specific from each other. And, like, my rhythm of talking, my syntax is not the same as Charlotte's syntax.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

And then sometimes, depending on who wrote what episode, you'd be like, oh, I just can't say this. I just can't get my mouth to form the words.

[Cindy Schumach]

You know what I mean?

[Kristin Davis]

And I came to you and I was like, can we change that? And you were like, no.

[Cindy Schumach]

Did I? Oh, my God, that's so rude of me. Well, since sex and say, I feel like I've worked on. When I directed a movie, I really wanted to be a bit more playful and have more room for that. Like, I think. But I have noticed because I've now worked on some dramas, and I don't know why, because I love comedy so much, so I feel like I should be just. But I've worked on dramas, and I feel like it's somehow less precise than it can be because it's very much the feeling and the plot and, like, you want the. But comedy, sometimes it's just like, it's not funny one way and it is funny another way. It's rhythm.

[Kristin Davis]

I think it's the rhythm of the words. You know, the rhythm of the words is super duper important. And I think the rhythm of the actors is also important because you can't really teach comic timing. But I think that they have to work together. Right? And so sometimes you guys would change stuff. And I remember thinking that at the time, I don't know what was true, but I remember thinking I probably waited too long because you know how there'd be, like, right after the table read, different people would request changes. Do you know what I mean? I waited till the hallway.

[Cindy Schumach]

So you're the same as me on the set. Like, when exactly do I interject? Too early, but not too late.

[Kristin Davis]

But I also think for so long, I know never asked for anything. Cause I was just so happy if Charlotte had a storyline. Right. And so it was getting to where, like, I had a lot more because of Trey, and I had these long, like, emotional things rather than. Cause in the beginning, at a certain point, I have my, like, didactic, like, I'm gonna get married. And I've got this book, and this book says, na na na na na na na. Which I haven't really gotten to yet. Which I thought was first season, but first season, I'm just kind of there, like, you know, not quite 100% knowing what to do or whatever.

[Cindy Schumach]

You can't tell at all.

[Kristin Davis]

Thank you so much. When I look, that's what I see. I see me underneath a lay of, like, pretend calm. You know what I mean? Which obviously all of us feel at.

[Cindy Schumach]

Some point, But I feel like I knew Charlotte right from the baby. From the baby shower, from my first episode I watched.

[Kristin Davis]

I know, but you're very Charlotte, which I remember. Like Jenny, also Aubrey's side, you know, like, once you guys came, I was like, oh, thank God. Oh, thank God. I'm gonna get some good storylines. They get me. They get me. I mean, me, but also Charlotte. You know what I'm saying?

[Cindy Schumach]

The romantic. I mean, I think of it just like the romantic, romantic side of it. Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, you got married with a white horse.

[Cindy Schumach]

I mean. Yeah. And then divorced. I'm on a dark horse, but yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, look, you know, all of us have our. Our.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yes.

[Kristin Davis]

You know, our visions, and we try to make them come true. Right. And that's kind of glorious.

[Cindy Schumach]

No, it is. That's the beauty of Charlotte. I think she was, like, very optimistic.

[Kristin Davis]

100, and she was also like, you know, she was going to work hard, she was going to do what it took, she was not going to give up, you know. Gotta love that.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Big savings, bold vehicles and the perfect time to make your move. That's what the Hyundai Getaway sales event is all about. And it's happening right now. Whether you're looking to upgrade your daily commute, prep for a summer of road trips or finally make the switch to electric, Hyundai has a lineup that covers every lifestyle, every budget and every kind of driver. Hyundai is rolling out incredible deals on some of the most award winning vehicles like the versatile Kona, the sleek Tucson, the Road trip ready Santa Fe and the fully loaded family favorite Palisade. Prefer a tech savvy sedan. The Elantra is packed with features and the Sonata is Hyundai's most advanced yet. It's a serious standout. And for those ready to go electric, Hyundai is leading the charge. The all electric Ioniq 5 and Ioniq 6 deliver bold design, ultra fast charging and seriously impressive range. All while qualifying for potential EV incentives depending on your state. But here's the part that really sets Hyundai apart. It's not just about what you drive off the lot, it's what comes with it. It every new Hyundai is backed by America's best warranty. A 10 year 100,000 mile powertrain limited warranty that's industry leading coverage that brings real peace of mind. And with three years or 36,000 miles of limited complimentary maintenance on every new 2025 model, Hyundai keeps delivering Long after you've driven off the lot. You're not just buying a car, you're getting value, confidence and a company that truly has your back. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Offers end September 2, 2025 Famous Footwear has the latest styles and all the iconic brands your kids love for back to school. From Nike, Adidas, Jordan brand Crocs, Converse, New Balance, Birkenstock and more. All at a great value. There's something for everyone in the family and I know for myself I cannot even keep up with the shoes that my kids want. So the fact that there are so many choices at Famous Footwear and that I can get them the next size up as soon as they outgrow the ones they have and not have to break the bank to get them the shoes that they want is incredible. Plus they make it so incredibly easy because you can just order online because I know I don't have time to go to the shoe store. These kids grow so fast. You have to just buy shoes all the time. I feel so I love Famous Footwear because they make it so easy. It saves me so much time. They have over 830 stores. They're just around the corner from wherever you are. Plus buy online, pick up in store and same day delivery options powered by doordash make shopping at Famous so easy and convenient. Kids feet grow fast. Famous Footwear has fit experts in store to make sure you get the right size every time. I like that you don't have to overspend to make it famous right now. Buy one pair of shoes. Get one half off at your local famous footwear store or famous.com see store associate for details. AG's new fall 2025 collection, from Canvas to Cloth, is inspired by artists and their studios. As someone who plays a character deeply rooted in the art world, it truly feels like something Charlotte would love. The collection blends creativity with wearability, from soft knits and suedes to new denim silhouettes like the Boyfriend Fit for women. It's relaxed, effortless, and so chic. And it's not just for women. AG has great pieces for men, too, perfect for dressing the whole family. The Fall 2025 collection is available now at aggeans.com and use COD Kristin 15 for 15% off your next order. I'm going to be using my own discount, you guys.

[Cindy Schumach]

I'm so excited.

[Kristin Davis]

Cozy up with fragrance that feels like fall and smells unforgettable. Pura's smart app Control Diffusers Pair with premium scents from brands like Nest New York, Capri Blu, Anthropologie, and Studio McGee. Whether you're craving spice, pumpkin, warm Amber, or nostalgic woody notes, there's a scent to match every mood and every space. Discover why Pura is the go to for premium home fragrances. Start your fall refresh [e-mail] have you.

[Cindy Schumach]

Ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it?

[Kristin Davis]

Maybe you felt stuck in a job, a place, or even a relationship. I'm Emily Tish Sussman, and on she.

[Cindy Schumach]

Pivots I dive into the inspiring pivots.

[Kristin Davis]

Of women who have taken big leaps.

[Cindy Schumach]

In their lives and careers. Careers I'm Gretchen Whitmer.

[Kristin Davis]

Jody Sweetin, Annika Patton Elaine Welteroth I'm Jessica Voss, and that's when I was like, I gotta go. I don't know how, but that kicked off the pivot of how to make the transition.

[Cindy Schumach]

Learn how to get comfortable pivoting because your life is going to Be full of them. Every episode gets real about the why.

[Kristin Davis]

Behind these changes and gives you the.

[Cindy Schumach]

Inspiration and maybe the push to make your next pivot.

[Kristin Davis]

Listen to these women and more on.

[Cindy Schumach]

Sheep Pivots now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kristin Davis]

All right, should we talk about this particular episode? Okay, great. So this is evolution, which is also, like, such a great. I don't really. So I'm just rediscovering all of it when I watch it, because I don't really remember it exactly. You know, I thought I did, and.

[Cindy Schumach]

Then when I rewatched, I was like, oh, I forgot that storyline. I forgot the fertility, like, the freezing your eggs was in there.

[Kristin Davis]

Me too.

[Cindy Schumach]

I forgot the Samantha story, which is like. I love that moment. There's a moment where Charlotte is like, Samantha getting her heart broken was more confusing to Charlotte than a kiss from a gay man. I know. And you're like. You're just bewilderment at everything in this episode. I love. I know, I know.

[Kristin Davis]

I really enjoyed it. But also, I totally forgot John Chef was in our show. How could I not remember this? I was like, oh, my God, what am I watching?

[Cindy Schumach]

We had so many people watching.

[Kristin Davis]

And he's so good. We had so many. I mean, and right now is when, like, it's really kicking in, because people know what the show is now. Third season is gonna be, you know, next level. Right. But, like, now is when we're really getting all the good people and writing all the good storylines. And it was so sad for Samantha. I felt really bad. I didn't remember this at all.

[Cindy Schumach]

And she has this whole.

[Kristin Davis]

That she's basically this man. John O' Shea is. He's almost like a different version of Mr. Big in a way, Right. Where she dated him when he was, you know, a big deal, and then he dropped her for a model that he married, and then they broke up, and it was an ugly divorce, and he had fallen in stature, which kind of made me laugh, because now if you're having an ugly divorce, I don't really think it affects the men. Do you know what I mean?

[Cindy Schumach]

Doesn't know.

[Kristin Davis]

Might affect the women, might not. I don't know. It's like, everyone's having an ugly divorce, basically. But whatever. That was interesting.

[Cindy Schumach]

I think he said, like, you fell from the COVID of Fortune to, like, Page Six. Exactly. So, like, he was just gossip.

[Kristin Davis]

Exactly.

[Cindy Schumach]

Exactly.

[Kristin Davis]

But so then she has a whole plan. And I love the way that you created this storyline for her, because it makes total sense. And you don't really see it coming, that it's not going to be like a kind of regular Samantha storyline. Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

She has a whole plan that she's going to date this man again, even though Carrie's like, what are you doing?

[Cindy Schumach]

You really hurt you.

[Kristin Davis]

And we're all like, huh? What? Oh, what?

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah. Carrie says, like, he is the man who broke her heart. And you're just like, what? And, yeah, no, that was a possibility story that Samantha got hurt, which is pretty cool.

[Kristin Davis]

And she seems. You. You see that in her performance where she's like, well, I have a plan and I'm gonna leave him before he does it to me. But then it doesn't go to plan.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah. I think her plan was, like, right before they even have sex, she was gonna be like. Then she's like, well, maybe after sex. And then maybe she gets all pulled into.

[Kristin Davis]

She thought she wouldn't have feelings because that. If you think about the very first pilot episode, she's like, I'm gonna have a sex like a man without feelings.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right. Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

So it makes total perfect sense. But she wasn't born like that.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. She went through things to get there. So it's kind of an interesting, like, backstory that we kind of don't ever really get.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Also, I literally mentioned my parents, I think, at one point.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

I'm like, what? Charlotte has some parents, you guys. They're in Connecticut. I think we knew. But. And then I think also previously in a Jenny episode, I say, oh, we don't talk about feelings either. We just are very good at tennis.

[Cindy Schumach]

And I. Which episode? I can't even remember which episode, but the one where you're in the spa and you're like, I didn't grow up in a naked house.

[Kristin Davis]

Remember that?

[Cindy Schumach]

I forgot that.

[Kristin Davis]

Good one.

[Cindy Schumach]

I think we would know that, though.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, they're little. Little tidbits. Little tidbits where if we collected them all, they'd make a pretty good picture. But I love the whole whole. That we don't spend time on the backstory, generally speaking. But. Okay, so we have. We have this. Let's just talk about our guest stars for a second because they're so great. So we've got John Shea as Dominic, who's the Samantha, and we've got Dan Futterman with me. Just a dream.

[Cindy Schumach]

Dreamy.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, in every way.

[Cindy Schumach]

Because in the episode, we're not sure Charlotte, like, if he's gay or straight, goes on a date with them, like, says, I Didn't even wash my hair. I wore glasses. Like it wasn't a date.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

He kisses her, this amazing kiss.

[Kristin Davis]

And it's good.

[Cindy Schumach]

So when we cast that, when we were casting, when Dan Futterman, I can't even believe he came in to read because he's like a big actor. Why would we even have him? But anyway, he did. And both Jenny and I were enamored, and Darren and Michael were enamored.

[Kristin Davis]

And we're like, this is perfect.

[Cindy Schumach]

Everybody loves him.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes. Now let me ask you this about this storyline, because this is one of the storylines when I thought back on it, because it's Spiderman, all we remember is Spiderman.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

But then I did remember that there was some kind of a metrosexual conversation, which was a word at the time, but it's not a word anymore.

[Cindy Schumach]

No, I mean, I don't know if this one ages that well, the discussion of gay straight men or straight gay men.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

Like, this is one of those things where I look back and I think, well, at the time it seemed hilarious and forward thinking and now it feels like very binary and like I'm embarrassed that that was how we talked about it. But you kind of. I don't know if you can judge like you. Then it's 19. If we were writing it now, though, we wouldn't write it that way.

[Kristin Davis]

No, of course we wouldn't write it that way. But I. I also thought because I had Benito Skinner on last week. Have you watched his show Overcompensating? Oh, my God, it's so good. Cindy. Okay, not only is it so good, he quotes Charlotte often, which is adorable. On his podcast. Not. Not in the show. And he told me when he came on the pod that when he. So he created videos for Instagram during the pandemic and then put them on YouTube. This is how he became successful. It's incredible, right? He's incredibly inspiring and awesome. So when he got his show picked up at Amazon prime, it's called Overcompensating, and it's about kind of pretending that he wasn't gay and overcompensating so that no one would notice that he was in fact gay. And the journey to in college, coming out.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

It's a very funny and adorable show and very reminiscent of early days, Sex and the City. He told me when he came on the pod that he once he got the show picked up, he was like, oh, my God, what do I do now? And he watched the show throughout the whole show three times to study the Structure.

[Cindy Schumach]

Wow.

[Kristin Davis]

Isn't that cool?

[Cindy Schumach]

I mean, I think that's the thing, is that there's still very individual stories. There's still men who have a lot of trouble coming out. There's still women who are confused whether if someone's gay or not, and people who are confused. Fair Kira. Like, it's all very fluid.

[Kristin Davis]

Like, he wasn't inside confused, but he was presenting. So, like, he has a best friend that he tries to date, but they don't have sex because he's actually gay. And he kind of knows he's gay, but he doesn't want anyone else to know. So then he bribes to the frat boys that he. Yeah, I can't repeat. Involves sex, whatever. He brags. And then she finds out, and then they have a fight, and then he. They make up and they're best friends.

[Cindy Schumach]

Right.

[Kristin Davis]

And so he. What he said to me is, it's like the healing of having, you know, gay friends, Gay male, whatever, with women friends. Like, there's a healing in it, you know, and they can, like, rely on each other. And I thought that was just so great.

[Cindy Schumach]

I think. Think for me, the lesson is, like, you can tell any individual story that's true, and that's true to you. Like, if that's so. I think that's a defense you can still use, and it can be as specific, and it can. I think what was fun about section the City at the time is that we could make these pronouncements that felt real and, like, in the zeitgeist and did start conversations and were fun, but they were kind of generalizing about men or women or gay, you know, so. So at the time, it seemed hilarious that we were capturing something that seemed true. But I think maybe because it was trying to be generalizing that made it. Like, when you look back, maybe we were.

[Kristin Davis]

I also think at the time, I believe that we were all going around talking about metrosexual, and they were all writing magazines about metrosexual, which I think if I. I don't know if I'm right, but it was basically like a straight man, theoretically, who grooms themselves like a gay man. Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

And culturally, like, we thought, yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Would you have cultural kind of revelation.

[Cindy Schumach]

All the things that we thought were gay.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Cindy Schumach]

Which are not necessarily, but like, great style, great culture. Right? Yeah, but we don't ever use the.

[Kristin Davis]

Word metrosexual in the episode, which I thought we did, but we don't. We do. We talk about gay straight men and gays. Straight gay men or whatever, which Also, like, I was like, I don't even know what the heck we're saying. But whatever. It's super interesting. Right. But basically, I think do ask him, have you ever been with a man? And then he asked me if I've ever been with a woman. And I don't answer, which I find weird also. Right. And then this is what I thought was also interesting because I couldn't remember the details. I just knew it was, like, a questionable storyline. Right. But it's also Dan Futterman, so we love it.

[Cindy Schumach]

I love it still. Like, I stand by it. I just think, like, some of those things don't. Didn't age as well. But I still love the storyline and, like, you trying to make sense of, like.

[Kristin Davis]

Like, what is happening.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

And then at the end, when the mouse is there and he jumps on the chair and kind of squeals, and then the voiceover says something to the effect of, Charlotte wasn't well enough developed in her masculine side to be with someone who was so well developed in their feminine side. Something like that. Which is a very deep statement. And that's fine to say, isn't it?

[Cindy Schumach]

No, I think it. I mean, I. I think as. I. I mean, I love that whole. As someone who's been confused myself and married, someone who realized he was gay after being married, I feel uniquely qualified to say that. It's confusing sometimes.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes, it is confusing.

[Cindy Schumach]

And so. And you do kind of want some clarity sometimes just because you need to. I don't know.

[Kristin Davis]

So I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting clarity.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah. And so I love, though, that in that scene when. When you ask him in bed and he says, like, I'm a pastry chef who lives in Chelsea. If I were gay, I would be gay.

[Kristin Davis]

Totally.

[Cindy Schumach]

Like, which was really smart at that time.

[Kristin Davis]

Like, it's true.

[Cindy Schumach]

Like, he wouldn't.

[Kristin Davis]

You just be gay. You would be doing great.

[Cindy Schumach]

He would be great. Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

You'd be very busy and your. Your schedule would be booked and you're adorable. So. Yeah.

[Cindy Schumach]

But I also love in this one, this scene where you bring Carrie and Stanford to the place for the pastries.

[Kristin Davis]

It'S just to decide. Yes. And it must have been like, the casting of Futterman because literally everyone at the table likes him.

[Cindy Schumach]

Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. Like every. Like Willie says, Stanford says, well, I'm attracted to him, so he must be straight.

[Cindy Schumach]

Which is so funny because all the good ones are. Even the gay. Yeah, all the good ones are straight, even the gay ones. Yeah, it was really, really good oh my God, Willie.

[Kristin Davis]

I know.

[Cindy Schumach]

I miss Willie already. It was. That's a fun one to rewatch though of him and so fun.

[Kristin Davis]

All right you guys, it is too much fun to have have Cindy Shupek here so we are going to come back for part two later in the week. Please join us on Are youe a Charlotte? As someone who's played a gallerist and spent years walking through the art world in Heels, AG's new fall collection, From Canvas to Cloth, honestly feels like something Charlotte York would live in. It's inspired by artists and their studio think rich textures, beautiful craftsmanship, and pieces that feel both refined and expressive. Very Gallery opening in Chelsea meets weekend in the Hamptons. The New Boyfriend Fit jeans are my absolute favorite. They're slouchy in just the right way, flattering but relaxed and go with everything. And the collection includes some soft corduroys, my favorite suede, and luxury knits that feel so timeless. AG also leads the way in lower impact denim production, which makes me feel even better about investing in these pieces because style and sustainability should go hand in hand. The From Canvas to Cloth collection is out now@ag jeans.com use code KRISTEN15 to take an exclusive 15% off your next order, even if you've already purchased from the site before. You guys, this means I can use my own code and I'm also wearing the Boyfriend jeans right now. Love them so much.

[Cindy Schumach]

Back to the Future was released 40.

[Kristin Davis]

Years ago this summer, but the original star was just not feeling the story and was fired after most of the filming was done. Turns out a lot of stars have.

[Cindy Schumach]

Made blood blockbusters they hated. Check out the backstory with Patty Steele.

[Kristin Davis]

On the iHeartRadio app.

[Cindy Schumach]

Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebony, the.

[Kristin Davis]

Podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebony and every Tuesday I'll be.

[Cindy Schumach]

Sharing all new anonymous stories that would.

[Kristin Davis]

Challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you.

[Cindy Schumach]

Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to.

[Kristin Davis]

Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network.

[Cindy Schumach]

Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Kristin Davis]

I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, host of.

[Cindy Schumach]

The Therapy for Black Girls podcast.

[Kristin Davis]

I know how overwhelming it can feel.

[Cindy Schumach]

If flying makes you anxious.

[Kristin Davis]

In session 418 of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, Dr. Angela Neal Barnett.

[Cindy Schumach]

And I discuss flight anxiety.

[Kristin Davis]

What is not normal is to allow.

[Cindy Schumach]

It to prevent you from doing the things that you want to do, the things that you were meant to do. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Kristin Davis]

So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.

[Cindy Schumach]

There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Cannon drove a car into a pond and.

[Kristin Davis]

Left a woman behind to drown.

[Cindy Schumach]

Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Kristin Davis]

This is an iHeart podcast.