This is a BIG deal with Camilla Luddington... (S1 E12 "Oh Come All Ye Faithful")

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Are You A Charlotte?"
Episode: "This is a BIG deal with Camilla Luddington... (S1 E12 'Oh Come All Ye Faithful')"
Release Date: May 2, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of "Are You A Charlotte?", hosted by Kristin Davis of Sex and the City fame, fans are treated to an in-depth discussion of the show's pivotal season one finale, titled "Oh Come All Ye Faithful." Joining Kristin are special guests Camilla Luddington, Kevin McHale, and Jenna Ushkowitz, who delve into the complexities, memorable scenes, and enduring themes of the beloved series. This episode not only revisits key moments from the finale but also explores their relevance in today's conversations about relationships, self-fulfillment, and women's narratives.

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Revisiting the Season One Finale

[03:52] Kristin Davis opens the discussion by welcoming guests back to recap the finale. The hosts, Camilla, Kevin, and Jenna, share their excitement about rewatching the episode and dissect its significant plot developments.

Kevin McHale initiates the conversation by highlighting a surprising new character introduced in the trailer:

“Dare I say it? A new man.” ([03:55])

Jenna Ushkowitz expresses her enthusiasm:

“Oh, I'm excited for this, though.” ([03:52])

---

Key Plot Points and Character Dynamics

Samantha's Unexpected Love Declaration

A standout moment in the finale is when Samantha confesses her love, leaving everyone astonished. Both Kevin and Jenna recall their reactions:

“I was like, I don't know how many times in the show she says these words.” ([04:35]) – Jenna

“I gasped as well. I do not remember this, except I remember that scene in the bathroom that's coming up.” ([04:35]) – Kevin

They discuss Samantha's heartfelt bathroom monologue, praising it as beautifully written and true to her character.

Charlotte's Quest for Marriage and Psychic Readings

Charlotte grapples with her desire to marry, leading her to seek advice from psychics. Kevin humorously recounts Charlotte's interactions:

“She drops herself up to this psychic who basically says that I will not get married, that I'm a strong, independent woman, which is not anything that Charlotte even wants to hear.” ([06:17])

Jenna adds:

“But she only heard the marriage part.” ([06:17])

This segment underscores Charlotte's vulnerability and the show's exploration of women's pursuit of fulfillment and stability.

Miranda and Hickey's Intense Encounter

The episode features a gripping scene between Miranda and Hickey, where Miranda confronts Hickey about the nature of their relationship amidst spiritual and emotional turmoil.

Kevin describes the scene:

“She's trying to get him to stay in bed. And she says this is the wrong thing to do.” ([07:17])

Jenna reacts:

“I was shocked.” ([08:00])

The hosts applaud the complexity of Miranda's character as she navigates her desires and moral compass.

Carrie's Emotional Journey with Big

A central focus is Carrie Bradshaw's relationship with Big, culminating in a heartfelt yet tumultuous exchange:

“But she already knows Big is the big love of her life and that she's happy that she had it.” ([35:15]) – Kevin

Jenna counters:

“I don't think Carrie Bradshaw has found the great love of her life yet.” ([34:53])

This discussion highlights the show's nuanced portrayal of love, timing, and personal growth.

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Themes and Insights

Navigating Love and Independence

The hosts explore the balance between seeking love and maintaining independence, a recurring theme in Sex and the City. Kevin McHale reflects:

“People had a lot to say when we were talking about Big at the beginning of the show, because it has been this kind of shock for me to relook at Big.” ([39:08])

Jenna Ushkowitz emphasizes the importance of equal footing in relationships:

“It feels very equal. And I think actually that's what feels very peaceful about it.” ([37:50])

Authenticity in Relationships

The conversation touches on the authenticity of character relationships and their representation of real-life dynamics. Kevin asks the audience:

“Do you think that Carrie Bradshaw loved Big more than Big loved Carrie Bradshaw?” ([36:38])

This question invites listeners to reflect on their perceptions of love balance in relationships.

Personal Growth and Self-Fulfillment

The episode underscores the journey of self-discovery and the continuous search for fulfillment, both personally and romantically. Jenna comments on Carrie's ongoing quest:

“In the end, she loses him from circumstances in life, not from her.” ([35:38])

---

Memorable Quotes

• Kevin McHale on Samantha's confession:

  “Sometimes I'm looking down, but, like, I don't want you to know that I'm looking down.” ([11:22])

• Jenna Ushkowitz on relationship equality:

  “We need to find the equal footing.” ([37:50])

• Kevin McHale on personal introspection:

  “It's so sad. It's so sad.” ([06:19])

---

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the hosts expressing their appreciation for the show's depth and its ability to resonate with audiences across different eras. Kevin McHale remarks on the enduring appeal of Sex and the City as a drama centered on complex relationships:

“Relationship is great TV, right? Sucked in.” ([39:58])

Jenna Ushkowitz adds a nostalgic touch:

“I loved it. And I love, like, going back in time for me, too. And I got so nostalgic.” ([40:22])

Kristin Davis closes the discussion by emphasizing the show's impact on conversations about women, relationships, and self-discovery, reinforcing the podcast's mission to connect with fans through heartfelt and humorous reflections.

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Final Thoughts

"This is a BIG deal with Camilla Luddington" offers fans a rich and nuanced exploration of Sex and the City, particularly its first season finale. Through candid conversations, memorable quotes, and insightful analysis, the episode serves both longtime enthusiasts and newcomers alike, celebrating the show's legacy and its continued relevance in today's cultural landscape.

Transcript

[Kristin Davis]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Camilla Luddington]

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[Kevin McHale]

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[Jenna Ushkowitz]

And a half cubic foot Scott's Naturescapes.

[Kevin McHale]

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[Camilla Luddington]

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[Kevin McHale]

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[Camilla Luddington]

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[Kevin McHale]

Selection varies by location while supplies last. Discount taken at time of purchase.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

This is Jenna ushkowitz and Kevin McHale from and that's what you really missed. Jenna, did you get your delivery?

[Kevin McHale]

I got my delivery, Kevin. I ripped it open. I'm like a stickler now that I have kids for having high quality products in our house all the time and Deetson Watson has done that. So like, I'm not afraid that when Emma wants to eat all my prosciutto, because she will, that it's okay for her to do that. Dietz and Watson has been handcrafting premium meats and artisan cheeses for over 85 years. They're family owned and operated and they never cut corners.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Ever. They do things the right way, even if it's the hard way.

[Kevin McHale]

They're transparent about what goes into their food and what doesn't.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

They know good taste doesn't need a long list of ingredients and they stick.

[Kevin McHale]

To what matters, using the fewest, highest quality ingredients to craft their meats and cheeses.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Visit dietzandwatson.com therightway to learn more about the Dietz difference.

[Kevin McHale]

I'm so excited to share Vivarel with you. It's a members only club that lets you borrow luxury handbags, jewelry, watches, and even diamonds from top brands like Chanel, Louis Vuitton, and Hermes. You can treat their closet like your own, swap items every month, or keep them as long as you want with no return dates. I'm eyeing a stunning Chanel bag and some Miu Miu jewelry and I can't wait to style them. Plus, with the Vivrel membership, you get personal stylist, concierge services and exclusive perks starting at just $45 a month. Ready to elevate your style? Vivrel's got you covered. Go to www.vivrel.com and apply for a membership today using code CHARLOTTE304 for 30% off, four months of membership. The code will also allow you to skip the Vivrel waitlist. That's V I V R E L L e. Use code CHARLOTTE304 for 30% off, four months of membership. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hi, everybody. We are back, Camilla Luddington and I, recapping the finale of season one. Oh, come all ye faithful, let's jump back in. Dare I say it? A new man.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Oh, I'm excited for this, though.

[Kevin McHale]

Yes, me too. But I don't know what happens. I can't say. I can't say.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Okay, okay. I am excited.

[Kevin McHale]

There's a new man that is in the trailer saying something to her that Miranda also comments to her. I saw you.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I love this for Kevin Spark.

[Kevin McHale]

Okay, good.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I support this.

[Kevin McHale]

Right?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yes, I do.

[Kevin McHale]

I know, right?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yes.

[Kevin McHale]

Because life isn't over. You never know what might happen.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Fully support the new love, hopefully.

[Kevin McHale]

I mean, I don't know if it's a new love. I didn't say that.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I know, but I.

[Kevin McHale]

It's a new man.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I'm manifesting around.

[Kevin McHale]

Okay, okay. I like that. I like that. This is when the shocking thing in the episode happens. Samantha shows up and she tells us all that she's in love and literally our mouths gasp open.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I literally gasped because I was like, I don't know how many times in the show she says these words.

[Kevin McHale]

I don't think ever that I remember. I gasped as well. I do not remember this, except I remember that scene in the bathroom that's coming up. Oh, that took a lot of the.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Episode, by the way.

[Kevin McHale]

I like that line. It's really funny. Really funny. We'll get there. We'll get there, you guys. Okay, so we're all shocked. Then we see a flashback of her meeting this man, James, at a jazz club. And I don't want to go into detail because this is about someone else's life. But if you were. If you were following along, this is based on something that happened in life.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Okay?

[Kevin McHale]

So she meets this man in a jazz club, and he's very charming. And they spark it up, you know, like you're saying in the jazz club. And then Samantha says she owes it all to Charlotte. And, like, so shocked, I'm like, yes. Huh? What? And she says because of all my bullshit that I say about not having sex right away, that she's actually having feelings and that she could actually marry him, which all of us are just like, I know.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I was like, what episode am I watching?

[Kevin McHale]

I know. And what is happening? Who is she? What is going on? I know. It's very interesting. So then Charlotte trots her little self right off to a psychic, which is very funny. I have zero memories, okay? I' got straight hair parted in the middle. It's very 90s. I've got some silvery blue eyeshadow on. It's a mess as far as I'm concerned. But I drop myself up to this psychic who basically says that I will not get married, that I'm a strong, independent woman, which is not anything that Charlotte even wants to hear. Charlotte's just like, what? And it's so funny. Like, I would think she'd be like, oh, oh, at least I'm a strong, independent woman.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

But she only heard the marriage part.

[Kevin McHale]

Yeah, it's so sad. It's so sad. And so I'm upset. Charlotte's upset. So then we go to bigs. Oh, and this is when she literally says to him, I want to go to church with you and your mom. And he is surprised and doesn't see her as the church kind. He says to her, which is, like, so weird. I know. When she says, like. Like you act like I'm the devil or something. She said, like, it's all. It's all so much to get your head around. You know what I mean? So then she says, which also really kills me. I want to go to church with you and your mommy. That's her giving it to him a little bit.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

You know what I'm saying?

[Kevin McHale]

That's her, like.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

No, she's very playful.

[Kevin McHale]

Yeah, playful. And just a little bit of, you know.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

So he rejects her offer, and then he he says it's private for just the two, him and his mom. And then he says, let's go to the Caribbean. Which I'm just like, this is up mess. Do you know what I mean? I don't remember any of this.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I know.

[Kevin McHale]

Like, it's not good. It's not good.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

It feels chaotic to me.

[Kevin McHale]

Right?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yes.

[Kevin McHale]

Unpredictable, elusive and chaotic. And I feel very passionately mad about it.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yep. I agree.

[Kevin McHale]

I'm sure that has a lot to do with me. So then we're back with Miranda and Hickey. Oh, it's just fun to watch this too, I gotta say. I really want to watch it again. So basically they're having the exact same position sex. He's grunting in the exact same way and calling out to God. And then she tries to get him to stay in bed. And she says this is the wrong thing to do. She walks right into it. She says, there's nothing sinful about sex. And he goes off. Oh my God.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I was shocked.

[Kevin McHale]

I mean, he goes, I was horrified. I know. It was really good.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Naked, like just.

[Kevin McHale]

He's naked, he's got a towel wrapped around him. And he has like a monologue about how, you know, thankful for clearing that up for me. I'm healed. Like, he goes off. It's really beautifully written. It's so Michael Patrick.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

No, it's fantastic.

[Kevin McHale]

And he's so incredibly good. And he goes, what is that, the gospel according to Miranda?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I know. I was like, go, leave girl, run.

[Kevin McHale]

I know. And she does look, she does look a little scared. She kind of sits up. She kind of holds the sheets up.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

No, it's terrifying.

[Kevin McHale]

Didn't expect this. You know, it's so scary. So that's the end of that. And then they tell us that going to become a hit off Broadway play. So. Yeah, that was fun.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I liked that.

[Kevin McHale]

The shower of shame.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

The shower of shame.

[Kevin McHale]

I love it. It's really, really good. It's really good. Then, oh gosh, we cut to Samantha with this guy James. I feel really bad for him. They say they, they love each other, but you're also just like, what Samantha is this? And she's just so like soft and kind of girly. Like her, her sexual self, but kind of girly. So it's terrible. It's so painful to watch. So they're, they're on her four poster bed, which is a very traditional choice, but whatever. And you know, she says like, unzip it and come over here. And he does. And then she goes, put it in me. And he Goes. It is in. It's just terrible. Oh, it's just so painful. It's so painful.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I told you, I was in bed. This is when the blanket was, like, up to here on me.

[Kevin McHale]

I know.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I was watching these.

[Kevin McHale]

I know. Look, I'm. I play Charlotte, and yet I have to discuss it. All right? So I'm just trying to be brave about it because I don't know if you. You saw the episode where Oliver Hudson came on. Have you ever met Oliver Hudson?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yes. I haven't met him, but I know who he is.

[Kevin McHale]

Yes. Oh, my God. We talked about some stuff. Okay. Okay. I was dying. Dying. But, I mean, this is a very famous storyline that people sometimes bring up to me. And I so did not remember that it was first season because then we end up. She comes and tells us all about it in a bathroom scene at a club. And I remember filming this. We built a set for it. We were not at the Limelight or wherever. Wherever they are. I don't know if that's where it is. It might be at the club, inside a church. Yet. Charlotte with another psychic back at the club at Samantha's. Hold on, hold on. When do we go to the bathroom? It's very long. It's. When we call it a gherkin.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Do you call it a gherkin?

[Kevin McHale]

Oh, she does.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Oh, yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

Yes. I remember a lot of discussion about what is a gherkin? Someone had to find one. Before we all had our smartphones. They had to find one, show it to us. It was. Yeah. And that scene was very hard to film. And when I watch it, first of all, I definitely remember it because it was very long. And also a very.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

She's excellent in that scene, by the way.

[Kevin McHale]

Too excellent. So good. She's so good because she's so mortified that she cares, but she also cares.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

And also, it's just the monologue itself is so hysterical. And she really grounds it as Samantha.

[Kevin McHale]

Yes.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I mean, as. Yeah, Samantha.

[Kevin McHale]

Yeah, Samantha.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

And I was just admiring her.

[Kevin McHale]

No, it's really good. I know.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I was like, I don't know how I would have played this. And she's just.

[Kevin McHale]

I agree. I agree. And then the rest of us are just.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

And then you're just.

[Kevin McHale]

In particular, I'm trying to get on my mark because, like, to get three people in a shot.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Do you know what I mean?

[Kevin McHale]

So, like, sometimes I'm looking down, but, like, I don't want you to know that I'm looking down. Am I in the spot that I'm supposed to be in because whenever this is the beginning of a lot of very complex scenes that we all four do together. Sometimes we're walking and you had to find the lens or sometimes group. I know, but really fun also because it's like a challenge. But also it's not easy. It's not easy and I can see myself like oh yeah, I'm on, I'm on. Yeah, you know.

[Kristin Davis]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Take care of your entire home, including the air you breathe, and save $5 when you buy $25 worth of participating products in store or online. Shop for items like Glade Plugins, Airwick Plug Ins, Glade Auto Sprays, Airwick Diffusers and Glade refills and save $5 when you spend $25 on participating products. Offer ends May 20th. Restrictions apply. Promotions may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Camilla Luddington]

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[Kevin McHale]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's talk numbers. Traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from 100 to $250 per session, which adds up fast. But with BetterHelp online therapy, you can save an average of up to 50% per session. With better help, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you big on cost and on time. Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. With online therapy, you get quality care at a price that makes sense and can help you with anything from anxiety to everyday stress. Your mental health is worth it, and now it's within reach. I've benefited from therapy so many different times in my life. It's helped me with relationships, to being a better mother, to just dealing with the stress of my job. I love therapy and I think it's so important to find the best therapy for the time and place that you are in your own Life. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it's convenient too. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life, plus switch therapists at any time. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com ru to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E-L-P.com r u this is Jenna.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Ashkowitz and Kevin McHale from. And that's what you really missed.

[Kevin McHale]

So we both got the same delivery ding dong at our door the other day from Dietz and Watson. Did I not tell you immediately after that we were podcasting that I literally ripped into the packages and was eating the spicy cheese and the prosciutto and.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I was like, oh, that prosciutto.

[Kevin McHale]

Give it to me.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I was so excited.

[Kevin McHale]

So Dietz and Watson has been handcrafting premium meats and artisan cheeses for over 85 years. They're family owned and operated and by.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

That we mean their family is on the floor every day ensuring everything goes above and beyond their quality, above all else standards.

[Kevin McHale]

And even if it's slower or if it's inconvenient, it's the only way they know how to do it.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

And they never cut corners, ever. They do things the right way, even if it's the hard way.

[Kevin McHale]

And they're transparent about what goes into their food and what doesn't.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

They know good taste doesn't need a long list of ingredients.

[Kevin McHale]

They stick to what matters, like using the fewest, highest quality ingredients to craft their meats and cheeses. Simply made. Simple as that.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Visit Dietz and Watson.com the right way to learn more about the Dietz difference.

[Kevin McHale]

So then they're at the church. Oh, and then we see Skipper. Adorable. Skipper comes back. And because Miranda's been through this thing with the Catholic guy, Skipper somehow looks better. And to me, I think Skipper looks better because he is so dependably just gonna look at her with awe and love. Do you know what I mean? So when she needs it, she's like, yeah, that looks good. You know, but you kind of feel bad for him. But then on the other hand, I'm happy for her that she has. Has that.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yes.

[Kevin McHale]

You know, it's kind of adorable. I'm like, oh, cute. Skipper's back. And then Willie's there. Oh, my God. Just, like, so young and so beautiful. And they're the Limelight. And it's a fragrance launch, and I feel like there literally is a fragrance called Fallen angel now. And I don't know if there was that.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Maybe that's true.

[Kevin McHale]

I know.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

If not.

[Kevin McHale]

I know. So interesting. I. I know. I'm confused. I need to look it up. I didn't have time today, but I was like, wait, wait. Fallen Angel? But anyway, really interesting. And I love that they're at the. I'm like. Because obviously it was a real place. It's no longer a club. It reopened for a bit, and now it's like. I feel like it might be like they have. I feel like they might have AA meetings there. No joke.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Oh, wow.

[Kevin McHale]

I know. I'm not totally sure, though. I feel like it was something else for a while. Anyway. It's still there, but it's not what it was. But that's okay because it's not the 90s anymore. So basically, we then cut to Miranda and Carrie going to the church in their hats. Really bad spot. Yeah. Really, really bad time.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

And also, like, should not have made this decision. I don't know why Miranda's with her. I guess Miranda's with her to be, like, moral support or whatever. But, yeah, definitely not a good idea to go spy in a big hat at a church. And this is when they're up in the balcony and the. The Bible falls, which is, like, so mortifying. I can't even imagine. Can't even imagine. And of course, they look at her, and he looks at her like, what are you doing here? And then Afterwards. Oh, God. She's like, I'm just gonna stay here. She's like, so kind of Charlotte. Like, in a way, like, vulnerable. And like, it's all gonna work out. And Miranda's like, okay, I'll leave. But then she's like. I was like, just go. I know. Just leave. I know. They should have left after the Bible fell. Yeah, you do a duck and you crawl, right? Get down. Yeah, you get down. You army. Get all out of the church.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

She waits.

[Kevin McHale]

I know. Because she's, like, gonna make it work. You gotta love her.

[Kristin Davis]

Right?

[Kevin McHale]

I mean, that's how I felt. So anyway, they're down there. She meets his mom. His mom doesn't know who she is. And she says.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

She's like, I'm Carrie.

[Kevin McHale]

Carrie. Oh, the pain.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

That's what I'm talking about with Big.

[Kristin Davis]

I know.

[Kevin McHale]

I'm with you. I get it now. I didn't get it then, but I get it now.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

So the mom leaves and she's, you know, like, heard. But still. He's still withholding, basically. And basically says, you know, I asked you not to go. Yeah, to church. And then he says, wait, this is. Then he says, my mother doesn't need to meet another girlfriend. She should leave right then and never speak to him again. But we wouldn't have had a show. But still. Right?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

This is why we were sucked in, though, every episode. Because if she had left, you know, we were bought into the back and forth of it.

[Kevin McHale]

But, yeah, I know. That was really bad. Really bad. She does not deserve that. She deserves so much better.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Team Carry all the way.

[Kevin McHale]

Team Carrie all the way. And at the end, I'm just gonna jump to the end because I have a bunch of questions, but I'm just, oh, wait, Charlotte goes to another psychic. Oh, yeah. This did make me laugh. When they cracked the egg and there.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Was nothing in there. I was like, no.

[Kevin McHale]

And also, like, where do you find an egg with no yolk? Like, does this.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Because I thought that that was, like, very creepy, actually.

[Kevin McHale]

It was creepy for sure.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

And you might be cursed.

[Kevin McHale]

Oh, I think.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I think they said that they. You had some sort of.

[Kevin McHale]

Like, this is when Charlotte is really better than you think she is. Journey mean. Because she knows. She sees.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

Because they want $100.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

They want.

[Kevin McHale]

She's like, oh, yeah, no, this is a thing. This is scam. Because the chickens behind her, like, it's a situation.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

You know what I mean?

[Kevin McHale]

Yeah. I don't remember filming that at all either. I do remember filming. When I walk out in My coat. Cause I think it was like 4 or 5am and the handsome man bumps into me.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Oh, yes.

[Kevin McHale]

And then I have hope again.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yes, I know.

[Kevin McHale]

And I remember it because we had our incredible. We used to have this incredible camera operator, Joe Collins, who's now a big deal dp. And whenever he was there, you just felt so taken care of. And, you know when, like, you're in the relationship with the cameraman because you're doing a complicated thing together.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yes.

[Kevin McHale]

And that's really your scene partner.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

Joe was like that. Like, we loved him so, so much. And he always did the Steadicam. And that's what we're doing there in the street. The cobblestones. I think I still have that coat that I'm weari. And I'm walking along with my straight part in the middle hair, which is very questionable, but that's okay. And I. I walk along and a very handsome man where I'm like, why didn't we get this? I know.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I was like, where? He's leaving.

[Kevin McHale]

I know. Get him back.

Get him.

Like, charlotte, you're going after him. But, you know, I don't. For whatever reason. But I have my hope again. And I love that so much because that is, like, the key.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

You carry a lot of the hope in the series.

[Kevin McHale]

I do. And I'm glad because I. I also.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

We needed it.

[Kevin McHale]

Yes, we needed it. And I needed it. I still need it. It's great. I'm the happy for Charlotte. I love Charlotte. So then we're back at the club. Skipper, Miranda. Oh, Then we're back at Samantha's.

[Camilla Luddington]

Oh.

[Kevin McHale]

And she's crying. And he asks her why. Because when we have this bathroom scene, we literally ask her, can you talk to him about it? Which I'm just like, no way. We skipped over your.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

My favorite line of yours.

[Kevin McHale]

We did. Let's go back to the bathroom scene. So it is inside the church. I don't know how I magically get there, but I do. And we go inside this set. This set, which was not actually at the Limelight. I'm luckily there with them for this very momentous scene where we discuss whether size matters, which people still ask me about. Which I find really annoying that people want to ask me. Kristin, like, can I represent for all women if size matters? Like, it's the most pressured question. No, I get.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Let's not do that.

[Kevin McHale]

But like, on talk shows, people would ask me this, like, for years. Of course, I'm like, don't put this pressure on me, people.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I think that Your response should be your response on the show, which is.

[Kevin McHale]

How is he with this tongue? But the thing, I like that Charlotte says that because you really don't see that coming from her, right?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

No. And it's great because it's like the back and forth you haven't been included in. And it's like you just have that line at the end and it made me get.

[Kevin McHale]

Which is great. Which is great. But the one thing I do want to say is that I also think that we should make some space for the fact that that's not not every woman's thing.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

The tongue.

[Kevin McHale]

Yep, sure.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

No, it's definitely not.

[Kevin McHale]

Because I do think that men think that that's what every woman wants. You think so? I do think that.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Oh, interesting.

[Kevin McHale]

I could be wrong.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I've never asked that question. Of all the men in the world, maybe we needed. Maybe we need to do that.

[Kevin McHale]

That might be difficult to do, but it would be interesting. Any one man out there who's watching you, let me know what you think. Yeah, because I feel like we think like this is what that woman wants. And once I give her that, then I've given her what she wants and I can do whatever I want.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

We're going to hear it in the comments.

[Kevin McHale]

I hope we do. I hope we need that.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

We need some feedback.

[Kevin McHale]

I have mostly female feedback, but you women, let me know if you think that that's true.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yes, that would be interesting.

[Kevin McHale]

Okay, great.

[Kristin Davis]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Jenna Ushkowitz]

This is Jenna Ashkowitz and Kevin McHale from and that's what you really missed.

[Kevin McHale]

So we both got the same delivery ding dong at our door the other day from Dietz and Watson. Did I not tell you immediately after that we were podcasting that I literally ripped into the packages and was eating the spicy cheese and the prosciutto and I was like, prosciutto, give it to me.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I was so excited.

[Kevin McHale]

So Dietz and Watson has been handcrafting premium meats and artisan cheeses for over 85 years. Their family owned and operated.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

And by that we mean their family is on the floor every day ensuring everything goes above and beyond their quality, above all else standard.

[Kevin McHale]

And even if it's slower or if it's inconvenient, it's the only way they know how to do it.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

And they never cut corners. Ever. They do things the right way, even if it's the hard way.

[Kevin McHale]

And they're transparent about what goes into their food and what doesn't.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

They know good taste doesn't need a long list of ingredients.

[Kevin McHale]

They stick to what matters, like using the fewest, highest quality ingredients to craft their meats and cheeses. Simply made. Simple as that.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Visit dietzandwatson.com the right way to learn more about the deets difference not everyone.

[Camilla Luddington]

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[Kevin McHale]

Join the fun on the all inclusive 90s cruise for year two experience over 30 concerts and live performances with some of the decade's most iconic stars, featuring tlc, Sugar Ray, Better Than Ezra, and Vogue, Fuel and more. Nightly theme parties, celebrity interactions and more await you on board. Relive the magic of the 90s on board the luxurious celebrity constellation sailing from Tampa to Nassau and Key West January 25th through 30th, 2026. Learn more at the 90s cruise.com so we are in that very long scene in the bathroom where Samantha's fantastic. Kim does a fantastic job where she. Because she just has so many mixed feelings and she wishes it didn't matter to her, but it does matter to her.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

And she's crying.

[Kevin McHale]

Crying, but it's funny. And then she's crying, having sex. But also, like, the fact that we literally say to her, can you talk to him about it? What would she. I know.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I was thinking, like, what do you know?

[Kevin McHale]

That would be mortifying. Don't talk about it. Definitely. No. But, you know, we're just trying to figure something out, right?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

Maybe you could talk to him about it.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

Like. Yeah. No, no, no.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

Anyway, she goes back, she's crying, and then she's like, no.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

And then he's like, what are you crying about? She's like, I'm just so happy.

[Kevin McHale]

I know. It's so heartbreaking. It's so heartbreaking. Then also, in another heartbreaking way, we go back to the club with Skipper, and he literally tells Miranda that he knew they would get back together because ever since they've been apart, he lights a candle every night. So they get back together.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I know, I know.

[Kevin McHale]

I'm like, skipper, Skipper. Oh, my God. You don't have any idea who you're with. Like. And she says something like, you're a freak.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah. And that says, that was really cute.

[Kevin McHale]

Which is adorable. I know, but it's really cute. So then. Yes. Poor Samantha crying, very, very sad. And then. This is such a good scene. We see Carrie waiting for Big to pick her up, and she seems anxious, and she talks about how there's a voiceover and she. It's not clear. It's not clear how she's feeling. You know what I mean? Like. Like, it's not clear what she's gonna do. And she's so good, you know, because she's anxious, but she's still all ready.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

For him to pick her up to go on a trip. Then she goes down the street and he's like, get in the car. We're gonna be late. She's like, no, Just put my things down. And you're like, oh, God. Like, I was just feeling so nervous for her. And she basically says she tries to get him to talk. Of course he doesn't. And he's looking at her like, what is wrong with you? Which is like, what he does the whole first season.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

And she says, just tell me I'm the one.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yes.

[Kevin McHale]

Kills me.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I did wonder, because she references them having dated from some months.

[Kevin McHale]

Yeah.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

It's a loaded question. Like, I don't know. And so I almost felt like it was. Listen, did I make for a great finale ending? Yeah. Made for a fantastic ending. But when I put it in terms of, like, real life, it. The question that popped up in my mind is, when is it appropriate to ask? Like, timing wise.

[Kevin McHale]

But I thought it was totally appropriate. I'll tell you why. Okay, Tommy, there's this episode couple before where she. It starts with them walking down a crowded New York street, and they're, like, holding each other and laughing, and they kiss.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Okay.

[Kevin McHale]

She talks about how in a city of 7 million people, that it sometimes feels good to stand still with one person.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Oh, yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

She's there then, emotionally. And she hasn't seen us in like a week. Like, eight days. She's just been holed up with him for eight days. And as I said to Oliver Hudson, if I was holed up with a guy for eight days, which I can't even imagine because I have two children, Right. Like, how would that work? They would be without food. You know what I mean? So probably wouldn't happen now. But in my youth, if I've been holed up with the guy for eight solid days, I would be thinking we were in a thing for real.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah, but she's not asking, are we in a thing. She's asking, am I the one?

[Kevin McHale]

It's true, but I'm saying that was a couple months ago. Right. Because if you think of, like, episodes are just like, I don't have an answer.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

No, no, I don't have an answer to it. It just was something that, like, I started thinking about, like, when I'd be interested to hear from your listeners, like, when is. When do you think that you can appropriately ask that question?

[Kevin McHale]

I mean, listen, I would argue that it's probably never an appropriate, Inappropriate. Yeah, I think it's an inappropriate question. Oh, you do? Yes. I would never ask a person that question in a million 100 years. One. I don't totally believe in the one. Meaning only one. The one.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Okay.

[Kevin McHale]

But what it represents, I wouldn't Ask somebody that question.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

You would not.

[Kevin McHale]

No, I would be waiting for them to show me. Show me. I don't even care about words. I always feel like words are manipulated.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

That's so true. You know, I like that answer. You get shown that you're the one. Yeah. Yes, you do.

[Kevin McHale]

I agree. I mean, I do get that there are times in relationships. I wouldn't say that this is the time in the carry Big, but I also feel like it's. It's more about how you feel. Right. And I feel like for her, what she was saying is, I'm here now. I'm. This is true for me. So I need to know if it's.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

True for you defense. And I can't even believe I just said that. Like, it gave me, like, a little bit of indigestion, to be honest, to say that in Big's defense, not everyone's on the same timeline for sure. So even though she's there, is it fair to be like, I'm the one? However, it is fair if she's okay to lose him on it.

[Kevin McHale]

I think in my mind, this is Carrie getting to the end of her rope of having to work so hard. Because all I see when I look at the episodes of the first season is that she's just like, what do I do? What do I do?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

It's like, that's the whole series.

[Kevin McHale]

I know. Well, let's hope not. Oh, my God.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

All of sex in this. No, not. Well, don't.

[Kevin McHale]

Don't you.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I mean, when I.

[Kevin McHale]

Okay, listen, I haven't gone back and.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Watched the episodes, but my general opinion is that she. I mean, listen, I'm thinking of the wedding day when you're hitting it like, I. It was her. He was.

[Kevin McHale]

It's a good point. Hard to get, but in the end.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Get down the aisle.

[Kevin McHale]

That's true. And him. Okay, let's just say that.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

But let's also say in the end, because people listening, it's not like we're giving something away. It does work out. Right. But it's a very difficult road to get there. But maybe that was what those people needed to go through. I don't know. You know what I'm saying?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I don't know.

[Kevin McHale]

I mean, I need to understand. I don't know.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Rewatch.

[Kevin McHale]

Oh, let me tell you, I need a full reaction. I'm in the middle of it. You can come back and join me if you want, but it's a lot. And obviously there's other people that come in the mix for both of them. Which, you know, makes sense. But I also feel like in some ways, I unfortunately do feel like that's true to life. Like there might be that person where you feel like they're the one, and maybe they tell you that you're the one. And then maybe circumstances intervene and it doesn't work out, and it's really sad.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I'm gonna say a bold thing.

[Kevin McHale]

Okay.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I don't think Carrie Bradshaw has found the great love of her life yet. Hallelujah.

[Kevin McHale]

Let's hope she does. Right?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I don't think she's met him yet.

[Kevin McHale]

Good.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I know we are.

[Kevin McHale]

That's a good thing. I think that's a good thing because she maybe.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I mean, but I'm sure some people think that it's Aiden or Big and Right.

[Kevin McHale]

For me, people have their. Their feelings. And definitely, I think that Carrie would tell you that Big is and was the big love of her life and that she's happy that she had it. Do you know what I'm saying? Because in the end of their story, which obviously people who watch the show still know this, she loses him from circumstances in life, not from her.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yes. Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

Not for a relationship reason. And she does feel like at least I had it, the great love.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I think she doesn't know how good it could be.

[Kevin McHale]

Oh, God. Have you watched and just like that?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

No, I haven't watched it yet.

[Kevin McHale]

Got it, got it, got it, got it, got it.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Why.

[Kevin McHale]

Why would.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Would this change what I'm saying?

[Kevin McHale]

I think so.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

In what way?

[Kevin McHale]

Because I do feel like she knows how good it could be by the time they get to where they're going. It just takes a very long time to get there.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Like in the end with him. Oh, I watched her first season. I did watch her first season of the show.

[Kevin McHale]

Huh? You didn't feel. You didn't feel that she knew how good it could be?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

No, I don't think that she knows. I think it can be better.

[Kevin McHale]

Well, that's really good for you in your life that you feel this way. I do, because I just.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I feel like. I feel like she always loved him a little bit more.

[Kevin McHale]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

You can't.

[Kevin McHale]

I'm gonna have to think about this now. I'm gonna have to think about this.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Do you guys agree? Can we ask the peanut gallery? Do you think that Carrie Bradshaw loved.

[Kevin McHale]

Big more than Big? Love Carrie Bradshaw. Oh, my God. It's a consensus.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Okay, let's keep that in peanut gallery.

[Kevin McHale]

I would never cut the peanut gallery out. I love them, but let me Ask you this, though, Is that so horrible? Like, isn't it true that in relationships somebody might love the other person more than the other person loves them?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Oh, my God. I hate that idea.

[Kevin McHale]

Okay?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I really hate that I'm not married.

[Kevin McHale]

So, you know, give me some good marriage.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I would be so pissed if I love my husband.

[Kevin McHale]

Why do you love me? Well, I think you would already know. Wouldn't you already know? You've been married for quite a while, right? How long? How long? Tell us.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Well, we've been together for 13 years.

[Kevin McHale]

It's a long time. It's a long time.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

And we have two kids.

[Kevin McHale]

Is it nice, even, evenly?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

It feels even to me. Listen, I'm heading home and I'm gonna ask him. That's gonna be the first question when I walk through the door.

[Kevin McHale]

I need to know. I need to know.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Well, I mean, if he says, no, you definitely love me more, that's gonna be an issue.

[Kevin McHale]

What if he says, I love you more than you love me?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Then I would be so machine. Be like, no, I love you.

[Kevin McHale]

You know?

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Like, I think it feels very. It feels very equal. And I think actually that's what feels very peaceful about it.

[Kevin McHale]

Oh, that's so nice.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

And I don't feel like she's had that yet.

[Kevin McHale]

No.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I feel like Aiden was. Has always had a thing for Carrie more than Carrie has for Aiden. We need to find the equal footing.

[Kevin McHale]

Well, maybe there's gonna be. There's gonna be some interesting developments. There's gonna be some interesting developments. But anyway, what I really love when she's on the sidewalk because they're going to go on this trip. And of course he thinks that everything's hunky dory. Right. And then she says, I love you, but I can't, which just. Oh, killed me.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

And then he says, so that's it. Like, in his kind of jerky way. And I'm like, get out. Okay. Get out. Then she says in her voiceover, she cried for a week. And then she says she does have faith. Faith in herself.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

And that one day she would meet someone who would be sure I was the one.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

Which is interesting because I would have loved it to just say, I do have faith. Faith in myself. I would have just ended it there. Journey, me. But she's still on. She's still on the search. She's still.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I think the truth is, though, that, like, probably, you know, a lot of people, you can be. Both things can be true. You can be the independent person, and at the same time, I Think as just human beings, we're. We're looking for a love.

[Kevin McHale]

I agree with you. I mean, people had a lot to say when we were talking about Big at the beginning of the show, because it has been this kind of shock for me to relook at Big. Right? And I was like, oh, he's so awful. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And people on the social media were like, they don't want love. Men like that. And I'm like, everyone wants love, don't they? Everyone.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I think Big wants love in the. On the terms that he wants it.

[Kevin McHale]

Right. But we know that he marries what he considers to be an easier, picture perfect version of love, and then he. It doesn't work out.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yes. But I still feel like it's all on like this. I feel like this romance is so much on his terms. But I need to go back.

[Kevin McHale]

No, you're right. No, you're so right. I'm just saying he also has his journey of trying out this other thing that he thinks is going to be great, and then it doesn't work out.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Yeah.

[Kevin McHale]

And then he comes back to the more complicated Carrie relationship, which is interesting. It's just interesting. I mean, relationship is great tv, right? Sucked in. What would we ever have to write about or anything? So I think I'm done with the rewatching part. Oh, my God. Am I done in general. Oh, my God, you're amazing. Thank you for having me. So smart and funny. I love it. Thank you. It's so easy. Thanks for joining us.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Great. I loved it. And I love, like. It was honestly, like, going back in time for me, too. And I got so nostalgic. And like I said, the excuse to not have to bathe my kids last night and force my husband to do both of them.

[Kevin McHale]

Listen, let me be of help in any way. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, listen, on the Night before podcast, I'm like, you guys, you gotta get in bed because there's no one else to bathe them. Right? So I have to do the things where I'm like, you gotta hurry it up. Cause I gotta rewatch the show. Yeah, Got to rewatch the show.

[Kristin Davis]

It's good homework.

[Kevin McHale]

It is. It's nice homework. I always feel guilty asking people to rewatch, and everyone tells me that I need to stop feeling guilty.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

No, it was so fun.

[Kevin McHale]

Thank you. Good, good, good, good. Thank you.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Thank you for having me.

[Kevin McHale]

It's a joy on our couch. Yeah, you guys should move in here too.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

I think so. I'll let Capshaw know.

[Kevin McHale]

Yeah, let Capsha know let Capshaw know she can come rewatch also. Okay. She would love together. She would be so much fun.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Oh my God. It would be so much fun.

[Kevin McHale]

I know. I want to have multiple. I want to have like a group rewatch.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

We should have Jessica on when she's in town and come back.

[Kevin McHale]

That'd be great.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Okay.

[Kevin McHale]

That'd be great. Thanks, Camila.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Thank you.

[Kevin McHale]

Have a great day.

[Kristin Davis]

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[Kevin McHale]

This podcast is supported by BetterHelp, offering licensed therapists you can connect with via.

[Kristin Davis]

Video phone or chat. Here's BetterHelp head of clinical Operations Hesiu.

[Kevin McHale]

Jo discussing who can benefit from therapy. I think a lot of people think that you're supposed to be going to therapy once you're like having panic attacks every day. But before you get to that point, I think once you start even noticing that you feel a little bit off and you can't maintain this harmony that you once had in relationships, that could be a sign that maybe you want to go talk to somebody. There's always a benefit in talking to someone because we can all benefit from improved insight about ourselves and who we are and how we behave with other people. So if you're human, that's like a good indicator that you could benefit from talking to somebody.

[Kristin Davis]

Find out if therapy is right for you.

[Kevin McHale]

Visit betterhelp.com today. That's betterhelp.com hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Take care of your entire home, including the air you breathe, and save $5 when you buy $25 worth of participating products in store or online. Shop for items like Glade Plugins, Airwick Plug Ins, Glade Auto Sprays, Airwick Diffusers, and Glade Refills. And save $5 when you spend $25 on participating products. Offer ends May 20. Restrictions apply. Promotions may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Jenna Ushkowitz]

Since its invention, the TV has been just that, a TV. But what if it could be something more? Meet Samsung Vision AI Whether it's upscaling classic content to look brand new or translating in English broadcast subtitles to Spanish in real time. Samsung Vision AI helps you get more from TV than you ever thought possible. Experience Samsung Vision AI and get a music frame on Samsung with a qualifying 2025 TV and audio purchase. Visit Samsung.com to learn more. Valid 416 to 5.4 and qualifying 2025 Neo QLED OLED and the frame TVs with Vision AI while supplies last. See Samsung.com for terms and conditions. Vision AI features vary by model. Upscaling utilizes AI based formulas and results may vary based on source content. Translation accuracy not guaranteed I'm so excited.

[Kevin McHale]

To share Vivrel with you. It's a members only club that lets you borrow luxury handbags, jewelry, watches and even diamonds from top brands like Chanel, Louis Vuitton and Hermes. You can treat their closet like your own, swap items every month or keep them as long as you want with no return dates. I'm eyeing a stunning Chanel bag and some Miu Miu jewelry and I can't wait to style them. Plus, with the Vivrel membership, you get personal stylist, concierge services and exclusive perks starting at just $45 a month. Ready to elevate your style? Vivrel's got you covered. Go to www.vivrel.com and apply for a membership today using code CHARLOTTE304 for 30% off four months of membership. The code will also allow you to skip the vivrel waitlist. That's V-I V-R-E-L-L-E.com use code CHARLOTTE304 for 30% off four months of membership.