Jenna Ushkowitz (3:25)

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Kevin McHale (4:02)

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Jenna Ushkowitz (4:06)

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Jenna Ushkowitz (4:14)

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Lena Waithe (4:21)

Hi, I'm Kristen Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Today I have an incredible friend on the one and only Lena Waithe who is an incredible actress, producer and screenwriter and director. She created a Showtime show called the Shy which is now in its seventh season, which is amazing. She wrote and produced Queen and Slim the film and and when I first really, really became aware of her as most people is when she starred in Master of None. She became the first African American woman to win the primetime Emmy award for outstanding writing for a comedy series. And she's also in that series and it's so incredible. It's about her own coming out story. I love her so much and she knows so much about television. I think you guys are really gonna enjoy this. Lena Waite. Yay. Yay. Yay. Thank you for joining us.

Kristin Davis (5:14)

Thank you for having me.

Lena Waithe (5:15)

I've been dying to have you on. I've been dying to texted Lena right away. Yeah, when we got this podcast you did saying you will have to be on please, please, please.

Kristin Davis (5:23)

And I said, yes, you did.

Lena Waithe (5:24)

Thank God.

Kristin Davis (5:25)

Just say when.

Lena Waithe (5:25)

Thank God.

Kristin Davis (5:26)

I'm so honored to be here.

Lena Waithe (5:27)

I am honored to have you. And I'm honored to have you for many reasons. Number one, I just like to see you.

Kristin Davis (5:31)

I love to see you.

Lena Waithe (5:33)

Number two, Lena, in case you guys don't know, is a multi hyphenate. I'm going to tell you your whole resume later when you're not in front of me. But the thing that's important is that her knowledge of film and television is so expansive and deep. And this is partly why I love her. Like when we first started and just like that, you left me the sweetest, sweetest voicemail. I don't know what panicky thing I had sent to you or whatever, but you know, you're just very grounding. Your knowledge is very grounding in terms of, you know, what has happened before, you know, how things develop in our culture on television, in film, what it means. And as you just said to me when you sat down, we were talking about this episode, you said, I think television has a timestamp.

Kristin Davis (6:17)

Yes.

Lena Waithe (6:17)

Would you tell me more? What do you mean exactly?

Kristin Davis (6:20)

Well, I think sometimes when people look at TV from say 10 years ago or even 20, it can feel in moments uncomfortable or icky even because you're thinking, oh well, no one would make that joke today, or you couldn't do that now. And what's interesting about that is that what I believe art is, it's a time capsule really, and it's a timestamp of where we were at that time and what was happening in the world then. And so I think of, even though, yes, these are fictitious characters in a way, this is sort of giving us a sense of what New York was at that time, what it was for women at that time, what the limits were at that moment and what could and couldn't be talked about and what barriers you guys were pushing up against. And so, and I'm really grateful that I got to grow up with it. I was like, I was a teenager when it first came on and so I was learning so much about what it meant to be an adult friend by watching you all. And I think I was more interested in that than the love stories per se, but the love stories were there as well. We told you about something about self love and how you see yourself. But watching it now as a 40 year old person revisiting the episode, for a lot of us who are my age, we feel a little confronted by now sex and the City. Because we are now the ages that you guys were then at that time, and we're seeing ourselves play out some of these storylines.

Lena Waithe (7:47)

Right.

Kristin Davis (7:48)

And that, I think, is saying that the show, you may point certain things out and say, oh, you can't make that joke now. But I do think the show is aging well.

Lena Waithe (7:56)

Thank you.

Kristin Davis (7:57)

Because the fact that I can see myself in it as I get older and understand things better, it's work that I've gotten to grow up with and I still get to sit with now. But now it's not. A lot of us are saying it's not just fun on the background now. Now it's okay. I'm in this stage right now, or I'm going through a divorce, or I'm about to get married, or I'm about to have my first baby.

Lena Waithe (8:26)

Right.

Kristin Davis (8:27)

And so now it's as if you guys are still there. I think of art as an inheritance. And so we have inherited this. This work. And that's why I think within, just like that is the continuation of the life of the work. And so when I go back and revisit, and just like that, I will be. As I get older, I will then start to understand these stories even more.

Lena Waithe (8:45)

I love that.

Kristin Davis (8:45)

In due time.

Lena Waithe (8:46)

Thank you.

Kristin Davis (8:46)

Yes.

Lena Waithe (8:47)

That's part of the reason I wanted to do the podcast is because I do feel also for myself.

Kristin Davis (8:51)

Right. You know, you're there, right?

Lena Waithe (8:53)

I was there, but also I was the age I was when we started. Right?

Kristin Davis (8:56)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (8:57)

And now I'm the age I am now, and I have such a different perspective. And as I was telling you, when you sat down, I had never really rewatched because when they would come out in the beginning, we would be so excited to see them, you know, because obviously we were kind of doing this fresh, totally different thing. And, you know, we were always, like, a little scared also, you know, about whatever we had done as, you know, because you act as well. It's like, scary.

Kristin Davis (9:19)

You don't know how it's gonna turn out.

Lena Waithe (9:21)

No.

Kristin Davis (9:21)

And you guys are taking a lot of risks.

Lena Waithe (9:22)

A lot of risks. I mean, and we still are like, wait till you see the first episode of Anxious.

Kristin Davis (9:26)

I cannot wait. I'm ready. Ok. I'm ready.

Lena Waithe (9:30)

I know. I'm ready, too. I'm ready, too. But I was like, oh, my God, I forgot about that. But that's how we used to feel, too. Like, you know, what do we say? What do we do? How's it gonna seem? Are people gonna be just. In the beginning, we thought people Would just be outraged, you know, because there was nothing else like it, you know, and we weren't out there talking about sex freely as women at the time. In 1997, when we filmed the pilot. Right.

Kristin Davis (9:51)

Crazy.

Lena Waithe (9:51)

It's a different time. Right.

Kristin Davis (9:52)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (9:53)

So then over time, the first time that they syndicated the show, they edited it. Do you remember this? It was on E for E. Of course.

Kristin Davis (9:59)

I was actually thinking about that.

Lena Waithe (10:00)

Right. And so they took a lot of stuff out, and if you'd be walking by TV and it would be on, I'd be. You know, it just seemed so weird to me, like, to first of all, have it be out in a mass way. Right. We never expected that.

Kristin Davis (10:13)

Sure.

Lena Waithe (10:14)

And then to have it kind of altered, which was weird. So, like, whole storylines would be gone. And then also I felt like, well, I just don't want to relive it and, like, live in the past.

Kristin Davis (10:22)

Sure, that's true.

Lena Waithe (10:23)

Right.

Kristin Davis (10:23)

Because the past and future don't exist.

Lena Waithe (10:25)

Right. Exactly. There's only the now. But then when it came on Netflix and all these younger people started discovering it.

Kristin Davis (10:32)

Absolutely.

Lena Waithe (10:32)

And I think because we're still together, working, so it's not that thing where it hurts you to look at it, you know, because we're still really very vibrantly together.

Kristin Davis (10:41)

Exactly.

Lena Waithe (10:42)

And, you know, love what we're doing still. So then I felt like, I so want to see what storylines still resonate, what still is true, what isn't true. You know, what, Culturally, where are we at? Because so many things have changed, and then certain things not changed at all.

Kristin Davis (10:59)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (11:00)

Super fascinating.

Kristin Davis (11:01)

Absolutely. I mean, well, I remember when it did come to E. And I remember because obviously watched it on HBO and loved it. I used to watch it with my mom, which is, like, crazy, you know? But I think when it came to E, I think some people were kind of nervous about how is this gonna translate? Cause the whole thing about it is that it's hbo. It's premium, it's different. But I think what was happening was it had become such a cultural point in our society that I think it was actually really smart for E to put. To grab it, obviously, for a lot of reasons, but. Because then it became this sort of thing where anyone could have access to it, you know? And the truth is, because Sex and the City is such a premium type of entertainment, it was nice for people to have access to it.

Lena Waithe (11:43)

Absolutely.

Kristin Davis (11:44)

And I think that was cool. And I think now, when it came to Netflix, because now it's everywhere. It's exactly as it was. They aren't taking things out.

Lena Waithe (11:51)

It's crazy to think about.

Kristin Davis (11:53)

And so. But now it's happening in a way where, like when somebody gets sick or you're chilling at home, whatever, now you can just have it on, but you're not. It doesn't feel mindless, though. It's sort of. It's almost this new rebirth. And if you think about it, how it aired in its original, then it goes to Eve, now it's on Netflix. What it's telling you is this is the kind of thing every television writer, creator, person wants to make. Something that can live in different mediums. You know, it can be on a streamer, it can be on a basic cable, you can go to HBO Max. Still, I think if you want to find it and obviously still find the latest, it means that there is a desire for it. There is something about these characters, something about dating, something about friendship, something about trying to balance career and family. These are just universal things, you know? And look, you deal with the race element. Yeah. It's like, for women, but at the end of the day, it's like it's something very universal about it. Very universal. And that was cool. Yeah. I mean, look, I mean, we live in a white leaning society. We live in a patriarchal society. We live in a capitalist society. Those are just facts. And when you accept that there's a level of, okay, this is what's happening. But what I do think what in just like that does, is where you guys have brought black women to the table now. And so. But what you kind of find is that there's cultural differences, but not when it comes to love and balance and trying to raise kids and keep a husband and have a sense of self.

Lena Waithe (13:12)

Right.

Kristin Davis (13:12)

And so what that also reminds us is we have more in common than we think.

Lena Waithe (13:16)

Absolutely.

Kristin Davis (13:17)

But what's interesting about these characters is a black woman could say, I relate to Charlotte, of course. You know what I'm saying? A black woman could say, I relate to Carrie. An Asian woman could say, I'm a Samantha in my crew, definitely. Because it's really more about these character sort of types. And also, if you. I mean, there are people that break down Sex in the City in much deeper ways than I do. But there are people that say they represent. They make up one woman.

Lena Waithe (13:38)

I know Sarah Gista says this.

Kristin Davis (13:39)

Yeah, I mean, okay, see. Hello. Hello. She knows.

Lena Waithe (13:42)

I did push back, though, Lena. I did push back. When you are ready to take a drive, you think about the direction you are headed and how long it takes you to get There, you rarely think about bumpy roads, motorcyclists weaving through traffic, sluggish trucks, drivers speeding through red lights, and pedestrians crossing at the wrong moment. The truth is, the road can feel unpredictable and sometimes scary, but it doesn't have to be that way. Hyundai's available advanced safety technology is designed to help keep you protected against the many challenges the road throws your way. From Forward Collision Avoidance Assistant to Blind Spot View Monitor, our vehicles offer available features designed to help safeguard you and your loved ones. You can change lanes with much more confidence thanks to the available Blind Spot View monitor, which actually shows you a live video feed of your blind spots. The standard Forward Collision Avoidance Assist can help prevent or mitigate accidents by alerting you of an imminent collision and automatically applying the brakes if you don't. Hyundai vehicles are equipped with the standard Driver Attention Warning system which constantly monitors your attention levels. Once detected, it sounds alerts and visual cues to help bring your focus back on the road. With available class exclusive safety features, Hyundai lets you enjoy the journey with confidence, knowing that your car is working hard to help avoid the dangers of the road from getting to you. Learn more about Hyundai@HyundaiUSA.com Call 562-314-4603 for complete details. Ready, set Summer Give your home a seasonal glow up with PURA's Summer Savings event where smart scent meets smart design. For a limited time, enjoy 20% off on sleek app controlled diffusers and over 200 premium fragrances for your home. Whether you're setting the mood in the living room or freshening up your commute, Pura makes it easy to customize your scent experience all from your phone. Don't miss one of the biggest sales of the year. Visit pura.comsummer for more. Aging is a natural process as we know and we do our best to embrace it. But I will tell you one part of aging that I don't care for. It's the symptoms that stem from changing hormones, especially as you get closer to perimenopause and menopause. That's why listeners we want to tell you about Happy Mammoth's Hormone Harmony. Hormone Harmony is not just a supplement for women going through perimenopause, menopause or post menopause. It's become a phenomenon. Women cannot stop talking about it on social media. A bottle of Hormone Harmony is sold every 24 seconds. Happy Mammoth, the company that created Hormone Harmony, is dedicated to making women's lives easier. And that means using only science backed ingredients that have been proven to work for women. They make no compromise when it comes to quality and it shows. Hormone Harmony contains science backed herbal extracts called Adaptogens. Now here's the beauty about Adaptogens. They help the body adapt to any stressors like chaotic hormonal changes that happen naturally throughout a woman's life. So Hormone Harmony isn't just for menopause. Any woman with symptoms of hormonal imbalances can take it, but it's perfect for those menopause symptoms that put a woman's life on hold. We all want to feel our best inside and out. We all want to feel healthy and have energy and of course sleep well. For me, Happy Mammoth is a great option and it could be right for you for a limited time. You can get 15% off your entire first order@happy mammoth.com just use the Code Charlotte at checkout.

Scott Patterson (17:51)

Hey it's Scott Patterson from the I Am All In Again podcast with Scott Patterson and I've got great news for my fellow Gilmore Girls fans. The show has a brand new home on Start tv, a national TV network celebrating strong, smart women in iconic dramas. You can watch Gilmore Girls every weekday at 5pm 4 Central and again at 11pm 10 Central with new episodes airing each day. It's perfect whether you're discovering it for the first time or ready to fall back in love with Stars Hollow. Start TV is easy to find, stream it, catch it on cable or satellite, or watch it free over the air. Head to starttv.com to see how to watch where you live.

Lena Waithe (18:32)

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Kristin Davis (20:04)

It also depends on where you are in your life, definitely. Because sometimes you're in a Charlotte era where you're like, I really want to be married. I want to have a kid. And other times you're in the Samantha era, where you're like, I'm cool here. I want to marry.

Lena Waithe (20:14)

And rightly so.

Kristin Davis (20:15)

Yes, exactly. So I think what's also interesting about this show is as you grow, and there's that whole argument online is that everybody says, well, Miranda was right. You know, we kind of were almost taught by society to think, oh, Miranda is so uptight and she's so cold. And she doesn't. She's not as, you know, frolicky as the other girls. Yeah. But then you kind of grow. You kind of realize in your life, oh, she's a person with a lot of discernment. She doesn't trust easily. She's not as, like, warm and cuddly. And I think that's because the world, especially a corporate world, which she lives in, you don't really get to be that. You know, I'm saying, also, Charlotte is a person who was in the art world, and she's a curator and all these different things. So I think you get to be a little bit more lean into your feminine in a way that maybe other people can't. And with Samantha working in pr, you have to be tough. But there's also a level of, like, using her feminine wiles to get what she wants. And Carrie's a writer, so she has to live in order to do her job. If she's not dating and having sex, like, what's her column gonna be about?

Lena Waithe (21:16)

Oh, yeah, I forget that.

Kristin Davis (21:18)

Yeah. So there's just so many things about it. And also, it's interesting because, of course, the press or critics who look at old reviews, they say, oh, it's gay men writing, white writing.

Lena Waithe (21:25)

Oh, I hate that. I hate that so much.

Kristin Davis (21:27)

It's man hating. Or it's. They have all this sex or where they got all this money from. Look, at the end of the day, it's. What this show is actually doing is confronting all of us about what it means to be a woman in the world. And I really think, to me, what's so fascinating about the show really covers is motherhood, you know, and about, you know. Have you gotten an abortion? Did you think about getting one?

Lena Waithe (21:48)

Yes.

Kristin Davis (21:48)

You know, I love the Shoulda, coulda, woulda is one of my favorite episodes. I'm not here to talk about that. We're not here to talk about that one.

Lena Waithe (21:52)

It's fine.

Kristin Davis (21:53)

But, you know. But, yeah, it's just gonna. I know it'll come back, but it just sort of covers. And that's how I learned television writing, really. From watching Sex and the City and listening to Michael Patrick King's commentary is about making sure you have everyone's opinion in the room. And those writers were so great at making sure whatever the topic was, all four of you, none of you agreed.

Lena Waithe (22:13)

Right.

Kristin Davis (22:14)

And I think that was. And that's what makes the scene those. Obviously, those iconic lunch, dinner scenes. Yes.

Lena Waithe (22:20)

Coffee shop.

Kristin Davis (22:20)

So amazing. Because you all are gonna have a different opinion.

Lena Waithe (22:23)

It's true.

Kristin Davis (22:24)

You know, and what I love in the episode, I'm here to talk about Miranda. How she has to leave the table.

Lena Waithe (22:27)

Oh, my God. I know. I'd forgotten about this.

Kristin Davis (22:30)

She leaves the table. Cause she's like, I'm tired of talking about men.

Lena Waithe (22:33)

I know. Which I think Michael Patrick. Cause Michael Patrick wrote this episode. It's called Take Me out to the Ball Game. Leave out all the details.

Kristin Davis (22:39)

No, it's all good. Where Carrie was season two opener. Where Carrie is mourning her relationship.

Lena Waithe (22:45)

Exactly. Mourning her relationship. Living in that horrible fear that you're gonna run into your ex somewhere in the world. Which, of course, happens especially in New York, because you're out there on those streets.

Kristin Davis (22:56)

You are. And of course, Charlotte's saying, you have to be sad and be inside and go through. Which I actually agree. I kind of agree. I agree with Charlotte there.

Lena Waithe (23:04)

I agree with myself.

Kristin Davis (23:05)

You're like, I agree with my charact. And Miranda's like, which I don't always. And Miranda's like, no.

Lena Waithe (23:10)

But Miranda's like, don't feel those feelings. Like, she's on the phone. You're fine.

Kristin Davis (23:13)

You gotta go. Let's stop talking about it. And the truth is, when I was watching it, I was like, oh, my God. That's our lives right now. Like, somebody's going through a separation. And some of us are saying, girl, you gotta move on. And others are saying, you need to mourn. And as I was watching the episode, I was like, oh, Jesus, this is my life being reflected back. But I think that we're both right. You know, in some ways, I do believe in. Maybe I'm that friend saying, I was in a voice note. Give yourself grace. Like, be gentle with yourself. Take your time. It's okay. But then others are saying, girl, it's time you Got to move on and let it go.

Lena Waithe (23:48)

Because this is one thing Charlotte talks about. Is there a limit? Because I do think. I do think with myself, certainly. And I haven't been through a breakup in a while, thank God. But, you know, there comes a time where it maybe goes too long. You're laying on that couch too long.

Kristin Davis (24:01)

True. I mean, well, I think that's the interesting thing is I think. Well, I also believe everything is temporary. Good feelings as well as bad.

Lena Waithe (24:08)

Definitely.

Kristin Davis (24:09)

And so if you're feeling sad for a really long time or it feels like, hey, what's going on? Then, I mean, if Alina character is there, I'm saying, then it might be a time to talk to a therapist for sure and kind of get to the root of what's going on. Because now this person is more a representation of something you've projected onto this.

Lena Waithe (24:28)

Relationship in some deeper.

Kristin Davis (24:29)

This is triggering something. You got to get to the root of it. So. And looking at it in retrospect, because we ultimately knows what happens with Carrie and Big, the question then becomes, if you can't get over someone, are you actually meant to get over them? Is there something going on? Will that person come back? Or, you know, there's a season. You know, it's like that maybe it's time for that person to go away and you come back. But I think also the writing is just so beautiful because she does bump into Big, of course.

Lena Waithe (24:55)

Right.

Kristin Davis (24:55)

She looks great. She's with a hot guy.

Lena Waithe (24:57)

Right.

Kristin Davis (24:57)

You know, and he, of course, is a little. A little burned by it. And it's season two, so.

Lena Waithe (25:02)

Right. We got a long way to go.

Kristin Davis (25:03)

Yeah. And it's setting something up, which I think, you know, Sex and the City does a beautiful job of creating these romances that can. That can come and go, which I also learned about in terms of relationships. They can blossom for a season, and then they can close and they can come back. I mean, that happens with your character as well. You have gentlemen that come and go, and then they find their way back into your life.

Lena Waithe (25:24)

That's true. And that is true, too, I think, with. In the beginning. And again, I wasn't really thinking very objectively when we were doing it. Whatever they wrote, I was like, let's try to make this work. You know, that was my thing. Right. Like, I never examined it very hard. Right. So when I'm looking back on it, sometimes I'm like, I know Charlotte believes in love, but, like, why was she so into Big? Because Big really puts Carrie through it, you know, True. Right, right. But I was always like, yay big. You know what I mean?

Kristin Davis (25:50)

That's interesting.

Lena Waithe (25:51)

And I never thought about it, but I also think it's because I'm my age now versus my age then. Do you know what I mean?

Kristin Davis (25:57)

Well, it's interesting because I think she believes in them. Because for Carrie, she's thinking like, this is the one. I think this is the guy.

Lena Waithe (26:05)

I think she's thinking that because Carrie's thinking, right.

Kristin Davis (26:08)

And she wants Carrie to be. To have what she wants, and she wants the guy that she's going for. And I think at the time, I don't know if we had the emotional intelligence to say, well, he's not really committing what's going on and what should we do?

Lena Waithe (26:20)

And also, he was. All the things that they talk about now, like breadcrumbing, the things that people talk about online, oh, my God.

Kristin Davis (26:25)

Gaslighting.

Lena Waithe (26:26)

But we never thought those things in the 90s.

Kristin Davis (26:30)

No, you didn't.

Lena Waithe (26:30)

No, we didn't.

Kristin Davis (26:32)

But it's so interesting because, like, I was around, like, you know, my mom or her friends, they would say, I haven't Mr. Big. I haven't Mr. Big.

Lena Waithe (26:37)

Really?

Kristin Davis (26:38)

And so I think, well, everybody kind of has one. And I think. But now what Mr. Big represents is someone who is just unattainable, definitely, and someone you kind of can't have. And that's why I think, you know, within just like that, people get so in their feelings. Because in a way, Sex and the City is like this sort of fairy tale for adult women.

Lena Waithe (26:52)

True.

Kristin Davis (26:52)

And so. Well, the movie then also kind of gave us. It continues the chapter where, oh, it was a mess up and they got married. And then the second movie, okay, Shijida, okay, now. And just like that, okay, he's gone. It sort of takes you through all these stages of a relationship, you know, and then, I mean, not to get too deep, but, you know, when his character dies, in a way, it's that part of that little girl of her has also died. Like, she doesn't need to chase a Prince Charming anymore.

Lena Waithe (27:21)

That's so true. And I feel like she really embodies that so beautifully. When you are ready to take a drive, you think about the direction you are headed and how long it takes you to get there. You rarely think about bumpy roads, motorcyclists weaving through traffic, sluggish trucks, drivers speeding through red lights, and pedestrians crossing at the wrong moment. The truth is, the road can feel unpredictable and sometimes scary. But it doesn't have to be that way. Hyundai's available advanced safety technology is designed to help keep you protected against the many challenges the road throws your way. From Forward Collision Avoidance Assistant to Blind Spot View Monitor Our vehicles offer available features designed to help safeguard you and and your loved ones. You can change lanes with much more confidence thanks to the available Blind Spot View Monitor, which actually shows you a live video feed of your blind spots. The standard Forward Collision Avoidance Assist can help prevent or mitigate accidents by alerting you of an imminent collision and automatically applying the brakes if you don't. Hyundai vehicles are equipped with the standard Driver Attention Warning System, which constantly monitors your attention levels. Once detected, it sounds alerts and visual cues to help bring your focus back on the road. With available class exclusive safety features, Hyundai lets you enjoy the journey with confidence, knowing that your car is working hard to help avoid the dangers of the road from getting to you. Learn more about Hyundai@HyundaiUSA.com Call 562-314-4603 for complete details. Smells like summer and serious savings Pura's Summer Savings Event is on and you can score 20% off. From Smart diffusers to luxury scents for your home, it's everything you need for a total seasonal refresh without the splurge. With over 200 fragrances to choose from, you can curate and personalize your scent vibes with all summer long. But hurry, this sale won't last. Head to pura.comsummer and save before it's gone.

Scott Patterson (29:48)

Hey, it's Scott Patterson from the I Am All In Again podcast with Scott Patterson and I've got great news for my fellow Gilmore Girls fans. The show has a brand new home on Start tv, a national TV network celebrating strong, smart women in iconic dramas. You can watch Gilmore Girls every weekday at 5pm 4 Central and again at 11pm 10 Central. With new episodes airing each day. It's perfect. Whether you're discovering it for the first time or ready to fall back in love with Stars Hollow, StartTV is easy to find. Stream it, catch it on cable or satellite, or watch it free over the air. Head to starttv.com to see how to watch where you live.

Lena Waithe (30:30)

Hey, I am so excited to share with you something I have just discovered. Vivrel. If you're like me and you love the idea of having access to luxury accessories without the commitment, this is your dream come true. Vivrel is a members only club where you can borrow designer handbags, jewelry, watches and even diamonds from brands like Chanel, Hermes, Louis Vuitton and more. What's even better, you get to treat their closet like it's your own. No return dates. You can swap items once a month or keep them as long as you want. Right now I'm eyeing this gorgeous Chanel bag and maybe a stunning piece of Miu Miu jewelry. I mean, the possibilities are endless. With Avivo membership, you also get exclusive perks like personal stylist appointments and concierge service to help you elevate your look. You always have the perfect accessory for any occasion and trust me, it's a game changer. Start your membership today for as low as $45 a month and experience the luxury of having your hand on the next big thing. Ready to elevate your style? Vivrel's got you covered. Go to www.vivrel.com and apply for a membership today using code CHARLOTTE304 for 30% off four months of membership. The code will also allow you to skip the Vivrel waitlist. That's V I V-R-E-L-L-E.com use code CHARLOTTE304 for 30% off four months of membership.

Jenna Ushkowitz (32:08)

This is Jenna Ashkowitz and Kevin McHale from and that's what yout really Missed.

Kevin McHale (32:13)

So we both got the same delivery ding dong at our door the other day from Dietz and Watson. Did I not tell you immediately after that we were podcasting that I literally ripped into the packages and was eating the spicy cheese and the prosciutto and I was like, give it to me.

Jenna Ushkowitz (32:35)

I was so excited.

Kevin McHale (32:37)

So Dietz and Watson has been handcrafting premium meats and artisan cheeses for over 85 years. They're family owned and operated and by.

Jenna Ushkowitz (32:45)

That we mean their family is on the floor every day ensuring everything goes above and beyond their quality. Above all else standard.

Kevin McHale (32:52)

And even if it's slower or if it's inconvenient, it's the only way they know how to do it.

Jenna Ushkowitz (32:57)

And they never cut corners. Ever. They do things the right way, even if it's the hard way.

Kevin McHale (33:02)

And they're transparent about what goes into their food and what doesn't.

Jenna Ushkowitz (33:06)

They know good taste doesn't need a long list of ingredients.

Kevin McHale (33:09)

They stick to what matters, like using the fewest, highest quality ingredients to craft their meats and cheeses. Simply made. Simple as that.

Jenna Ushkowitz (33:17)

Visit dietzandwatson.com the right way to learn more about the Dietz difference.

Lena Waithe (33:28)

You know, people complain about Carrie online, which I find weird.

Kristin Davis (33:31)

I don't know who. Why would anyone complain about Carrie?

Lena Waithe (33:33)

I know Lena.

Kristin Davis (33:34)

I know what's the Issue.

Lena Waithe (33:35)

People complain about Carrie. They think she's self centered.

Kristin Davis (33:38)

I think, well, aren't we all?

Lena Waithe (33:41)

I mean. Yes. My feeling is this. And you as a writer are gonna have some insight into this. My feeling is that partly. I mean, if she was perfect, it wouldn't have been interesting.

Kristin Davis (33:50)

Exactly. No. She has to be flawed.

Lena Waithe (33:52)

Right.

Kristin Davis (33:52)

I don't. What? I was talking about someone the other day. We were about Sex and City. I thought I was coming up with this. They never really dealt with Carrie's daddy issues.

Lena Waithe (34:01)

This is a good point.

Kristin Davis (34:02)

They glance at it with the Vogue episode.

Lena Waithe (34:03)

Yes.

Kristin Davis (34:04)

You know when you see the photo. Because there is the older gentleman who's helping her. Yes. And who thinks that there's something between them. And for her it's not. It's more. Oh, this is a paternal figure. Even though Mr. Big is older than her. It's enough of an age difference where it's sort of like, you know, Spencer Tracy type energy. But I think, you know, I think as I learn and grow and do read books and go to therapy, what you realize is how you show up in your romantic relationships is a direct reflection of how you were loved by your parents.

Lena Waithe (34:34)

So true.

Kristin Davis (34:35)

What you didn't get from your parents, you try to get from your love.

Lena Waithe (34:37)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (34:38)

And so you have to kind of look at your parents and ask, what was I missing? Or what was I getting from you? Because what she says is very clear in the end, the episode is that her dad had abandoned her and her mother, he was gone. And so she, in a way, is looking for a man to validate, to accept, to be present and.

Lena Waithe (35:00)

Oh, Lena. Oh, my God. You are solving. Solving these questions for me. Yes. It's so true. I had not thought about this clearly.

Kristin Davis (35:09)

I mean, it's literally something. I just had this conversation with someone.

Lena Waithe (35:12)

Wow.

Kristin Davis (35:13)

Where they were like, what? Did they ever get into Carrie's dad's stuff? I don't really know if they talk too much about her mother.

Lena Waithe (35:17)

No, we didn't. Because that's on purpose.

Kristin Davis (35:19)

He wanted them to exist outside of their parents.

Lena Waithe (35:21)

Right. And he didn't. He felt like when people go to New York City, no one ever talks about their background. You know, you're just there, like present in the moment, creating whatever you're trying to create. Right.

Kristin Davis (35:31)

Absolutely. You're your own person.

Lena Waithe (35:32)

Right. And he had reminded me at one point that there had been a scene that they ended up not using where she had in her bedside drawer a little picture of her father. And she had looked at the picture and closed the Drawer. And they ended up cutting it from.

Kristin Davis (35:45)

Which episode of the Vogue episode early on.

Lena Waithe (35:47)

No, I think first season. I want to say. I know I had totally forgotten about this.

Kristin Davis (35:52)

Well, yeah.

Lena Waithe (35:53)

It's never explained.

Kristin Davis (35:54)

Well, I do remember him saying something about that, like, saying, I didn't want to go into the whole parent stuff, which, you know, which I get as a. Because with TV in the 90s, that was always an episode. It was over here, come to parents. All you got to clean up, and who am I dating? And. And so give you insight more into the characters. And so what was great about. Which obviously it clearly works because we see you all as individuals, you know, and now it's about, like, what, you're starting your own dynasties in a way. It's about, like, who am I gonna marry? What kid am I gonna have? Right. But as we as just people out here watching it, what I found, who I am in relationships is a direct reflection of what I grew up witnessing or didn't have or what I missed.

Lena Waithe (36:34)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (36:35)

And I'm telling you, it's like the dad conversation is like, who is carrie? Who is Mr. Bradshaw?

Lena Waithe (36:41)

I mean, that's so true.

Kristin Davis (36:42)

Cause that's more important than who was Mr. Big.

Lena Waithe (36:44)

Definitely. That's so interesting. And it's also interesting because people talk about the Aiden versus Big, obviously. They're so, so different.

Kristin Davis (36:51)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (36:52)

And it is interesting that she still. I mean, when I talked to Sarah, Sarah was on the podcast, and I said, you know what? Would you like to share with us? Insight into this? And she also, no matter what she says, can't separate. Right.

Kristin Davis (37:03)

No.

Lena Waithe (37:03)

She has played Carrie for 30 years. Right.

Kristin Davis (37:05)

Or, you know, it's crazy.

Lena Waithe (37:07)

It's crazy. Yeah. 29, whatever it is.

Kristin Davis (37:08)

Wow. Wow.

Lena Waithe (37:09)

But she expl. In a super interesting way that I never thought about, of course, because she's so smart. Right. And I was like, no, I'm trying to ask you about Carrie. Like, let's talk about Carrie. Why Does Carrie want Mr. Big? Do you know what I mean? Because she said so many interesting things that I would never have thought of. And also, this is what I love about talking to people, is that everyone has their own, first of all, experience, and second of all, thoughts and memories and, you know, knitting it all together is super fascinating.

Kristin Davis (37:33)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (37:34)

But what she. The thing I took away from her thoughts about Carrie and Big was that in the initial pilot. Do you remember? I really hated the pilot previous to rewatching it.

Kristin Davis (37:43)

Oh, my gosh.

Lena Waithe (37:44)

I know.

Kristin Davis (37:45)

Pilots are hard. Pilots are hard.

Lena Waithe (37:47)

They're so hard. You've made so many. I mean, do you. Have you ever heard my theory of pilots? My theory of pilots is this. A pilot needs to be like 75% good, but not 100% good. Because you have to have the elements there, but you don't want it to come together too good. Because if it comes together too good, then when the show goes, it might.

Kristin Davis (38:05)

That's kind of true.

Lena Waithe (38:06)

Do you know what I mean?

Kristin Davis (38:07)

Yeah. It needs to have something. It needs to be rough around the edges a little bit.

Lena Waithe (38:09)

Right. But it's gotta have that energy.

Kristin Davis (38:11)

Oh, it has to have that energy.

Lena Waithe (38:12)

The thing that's kind of intangible but not be all the way there.

Kristin Davis (38:16)

No, that's true.

Lena Waithe (38:17)

Right. And that's how I feel like our pilot was.

Kristin Davis (38:19)

Fair. Fair.

Lena Waithe (38:20)

Thank you. But I think the one scene in our pilot, and when I went back and watched it, it was way better than I remembered. Cause I'm hard on myself and my memory. Whatever. But you know the final scene where he drives her, they keep running into each other and he drives her in that crazy old fashioned town car and she gets out and she says to him, or whoever, says, have you ever been in love? And he says, absolutely. And the lights are all glistening in the background. And she basically said that in that moment the die was cast.

Kristin Davis (38:47)

That's good.

Lena Waithe (38:48)

Because when I was trying to get her to explain. Why'd you put up with all the stuff, you know, you carry, you know.

Kristin Davis (38:53)

Yes, yes, whatever.

Lena Waithe (38:54)

Yeah, yeah. She was just basically saying that the die was cast and that she. It wasn't necessarily something that was thought out, it just happened.

Kristin Davis (39:03)

Yeah, I get that.

Lena Waithe (39:04)

Super interesting.

Kristin Davis (39:05)

I think that's fair.

Lena Waithe (39:06)

I get that too.

Kristin Davis (39:06)

But also, I think that. I think. Cause I hear what you're saying, it's an iconic last. And it's the beginning of this journey that we had no idea would last, like you said, almost 30 years.

Lena Waithe (39:15)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (39:16)

But I think it's also that Casablanca moment. It's that moment of us falling in love with them.

Lena Waithe (39:21)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (39:22)

And this sort of like push and pull. And I think what you learn about TV couples is that they can never just be happy.

Lena Waithe (39:29)

Right.

Kristin Davis (39:29)

Cause it's just otherwise you don't have a show.

Lena Waithe (39:30)

Totally.

Kristin Davis (39:31)

You know, that's why Big had to die.

Lena Waithe (39:33)

Totally. I know.

Kristin Davis (39:34)

Cause they had the house, they had the thing, they figured it out. And now once you've learned the lesson.

Lena Waithe (39:37)

You go, that's right.

Kristin Davis (39:38)

And so now it's a new lesson for her to learn.

Lena Waithe (39:40)

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. The Other thing I think about Carrie in terms of people criticizing her is that because she is the writer and because she is driving everything and you're hearing her thoughts. Of course she's gonna seem self centered. You're hearing her thoughts.

Kristin Davis (39:54)

But here's the thing.

Lena Waithe (39:55)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (39:56)

What I love, love, love, love, love about Sex and the City is they engage the audience. Because she's always asking a question.

Lena Waithe (40:05)

That's true.

Kristin Davis (40:06)

That's how every comment.

Lena Waithe (40:07)

I wonder.

Kristin Davis (40:08)

Yeah. Or like, you know, should you stay in love or should you this? And it makes you question. She's wondering. And so now you're wondering, do I get over things quickly or do I wallow? Like, which am I? Or like, do I do this or do I that? You know, and so. And I think so now what I love, why I feel we love Carrie and she very much is sort of, I think of Mary Richards for her time.

Lena Waithe (40:29)

Yes.

Kristin Davis (40:29)

Is that we now are on this ride with her. Right now. We're dating with her. That's what we're saying. Like, it should be big. It should be Ms. Aiden, da da da. And my old lesbian are sitting there thinking, like, who do I want to be? Am I Mr. Big or am I Aiden? And I always wanted to be Aiden. I wanted to be.

Lena Waithe (40:43)

You wanted to be. Yeah.

Kristin Davis (40:44)

You know, I want to be the one that's like making furniture, breaking down a wall. But the sucky thing is, is that a lot of us feel like if you're an Aiden type, you're probably gonna get chewed on.

Lena Waithe (40:53)

Oh, no.

Kristin Davis (40:55)

But then I also have Mr. Big qualities about myself, I think. I think some people say, like, okay, I know there's a little bit of a suave energy.

Lena Waithe (41:03)

Thank you.

Kristin Davis (41:03)

I don't know, but it's like I'm looking at. I'm looking at both of them. It's like, huh, okay.

Lena Waithe (41:07)

Totally.

Kristin Davis (41:07)

They represent different things.

Lena Waithe (41:09)

Definitely. They represent different things. Okay, let's talk about the breakup rules for a second. Because when you're talking about the question, that's her question of the episode. So this is also so funny to me. So in my mind, the pilot was really bad and really dark. Right. Which it is really dark.

Kristin Davis (41:22)

It is dark.

Lena Waithe (41:22)

But now I look back on it and I love that it's so dark.

Kristin Davis (41:25)

Yeah. It's new, it's cool.

Lena Waithe (41:26)

It's different. I mean, you can barely see us sometimes.

Kristin Davis (41:29)

I know.

Lena Waithe (41:29)

Like, where are we?

Kristin Davis (41:30)

I know. But then it gets super light.

Lena Waithe (41:32)

I know. It really does. It really does. As we get more money.

Kristin Davis (41:35)

Right. Okay. The clothes get a little fancy.

Lena Waithe (41:38)

Most definitely. We had. Sarah Jessica told me we had $10,000 for costumes the first season. Can you believe that?

Kristin Davis (41:44)

That didn't even cover the shoe budget the second season.

Lena Waithe (41:46)

No, I know, I know. But that was when we had to get people to lend us stuff.

Kristin Davis (41:50)

Geez Louise.

Lena Waithe (41:50)

You know? Yeah. That's the way we did it in the beginning. So, anyway, here we are. This is the second season. And in my mind, I also love season three. As we briefly discuss.

Kristin Davis (41:58)

I really like season three in terms of where everything's just sort of gelling. But season two.

Lena Waithe (42:01)

Oh, my God.

Kristin Davis (42:02)

But season two. But I like season two, the season two opener, because what's interesting about it is there's an energy of. You guys feel a little confident.

Lena Waithe (42:10)

Yes.

Kristin Davis (42:10)

There's a confidence in all of you, definitely. I think, because you guys are. Oh, we're here for a second season.

Lena Waithe (42:14)

Do you feel that way when you're doing a show?

Kristin Davis (42:16)

Yeah, I think the actors. Because sometimes, you know, if I'm the creator, I'm on the opposite side of it. The actors feel a little bit more settled because in the first season, you're just trying. Okay, hopefully we get picked up. You get picked up for a second season. It means. All right, what we did last time didn't work. It worked. It worked. Okay, so we're not too bad. And then now you're like, okay, now we're on these journeys, and who are these people? Who are these characters?

Lena Waithe (42:34)

Definitely I feel that way.

Kristin Davis (42:35)

They're like, you guys are like. Like, it's great. It's great. Right?

Lena Waithe (42:38)

And we have the coffee shop set. So we actually. Cause, like, first season, you're like, where are they? And like, we're in Weird Places on Long Island City.

Kristin Davis (42:47)

Wow.

Lena Waithe (42:47)

Yeah. It's crazy. So we finally got the coffee shop set, which is great.

Kristin Davis (42:50)

Yes.

Lena Waithe (42:51)

And we have a scene that is a coffee shop scene, which is the one where Miranda gets sick of talking about men and literally says, don't talk about men. And Michael Patrick wrote this episode, and I think that he was actually using criticism of the show.

Kristin Davis (43:04)

Yes. All you guys do is sit around and talk about men. Yeah, I could feel that.

Lena Waithe (43:07)

Right?

Kristin Davis (43:07)

And. Yes. And obviously, I've been. You know, I've done that too. Where you write in. It'll kind of look.

Lena Waithe (43:10)

I like that. I like that when writers.

Kristin Davis (43:12)

It's like a run toward it. Address it. Address it. Right.

Lena Waithe (43:14)

Run toward it, definitely. I have the sweater that Cynthia's wearing in that scene in my house. Oh, my God. Sometimes I would take Miranda clothes home because, you can wear them in normal life.

Kristin Davis (43:24)

Oh, my gosh. Right? I know. Miranda's like the real girl. She's like me.

Lena Waithe (43:26)

She's like, totally.

Kristin Davis (43:27)

I gotta be a real person.

Lena Waithe (43:28)

Relatively normal as we go. Anyway, so this is the whole. The whole. We go out to the baseball. We're gonna talk about that in a second. But the big question, which I love because it does come up from Charlotte, where Charlotte says that to get over a breakup, it takes half the time of the relationship.

Kristin Davis (43:42)

Yes.

Lena Waithe (43:43)

What do you think?

Kristin Davis (43:43)

I've always heard that, and I always loved that theory. Yeah. Here's the deal. I love that. You know, they're so, like, classic about it with you. Like, you take. They gave the number of how long you were with the guy and how long it took to get over. But I mean, if you set an intention for yourself where you're like, okay, I dated for somebody three years. All right. Year and a half. So I'm giving myself myself, you know, that's all I'm gonna give myself.

Lena Waithe (44:05)

That's good.

Kristin Davis (44:06)

But some, you know, you could date somebody for like six months and it could be super intense.

Lena Waithe (44:11)

Good point.

Kristin Davis (44:11)

And you might need a little bit longer.

Lena Waithe (44:13)

That's a good point.

Kristin Davis (44:14)

You know, so it just all depends because some people can linger with you. Yeah, it just depends on the per. The person.

Lena Waithe (44:21)

Yeah.

Kristin Davis (44:21)

Some people are easier to get over than others.

Lena Waithe (44:23)

I think that's so true.

Kristin Davis (44:24)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (44:26)

So true.

Kristin Davis (44:27)

I won't say more either. We'll. We'll keep that.

Lena Waithe (44:30)

Yeah, we'll keep that. Lena, you are dropping the wisdom every which way. And we're just gonna have to come back for another episode. So you guys come back later in the week. Picture yourself going for a drive. What comes to mind? Potholes, Lane splitting bikers, sleepy truck drivers, red light runners, distracted pedestrians crossing the road where they shouldn't. Yes, sometimes it feels like the road is out to get you. But thankfully, Hyundai offers available class exclusive advanced safety features to help protect you and your family. With Hyundai, you can change lanes with much more confidence thanks to the available Blind Spot view monitor, which actually shows you a live video feed of your blind spots. The standard forward collision avoidance assist can help prevent or mitigate accidents by alerting you of an imminent collision and automatically applying the brakes. If you don't learn more about Hyundai@HyundaiUSA.com, call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

Scott Patterson (45:45)

Hey, it's Scott Patterson from the I Am All In Again podcast with Scott Patterson. And I've got great news for my fellow Gilmore Girls fans. The show has a brand new home on Start tv, a national TV network celebrating strong, smart women in iconic dramas. You can watch Gilmore Girls every weekday at 5pm 4 Central and again at 11pm 10 Central, with new episodes airing each day. It's perfect. Whether you're discovering it for the first time or ready to fall back in love with Stars Hollow. Start TV is easy to find, stream it, catch it on cable or satellite, or watch it free over the air. Head to starttv.com to see how to watch where you live.

Lena Waithe (46:27)

I'm so excited to share Vivarel with you. It's a members only club that lets you borrow luxury handbags, jewelry, watches and even diamonds from top brands like Chanel, Louis Vuitton and Hermes. You can treat their closet like your own, swap items every month or keep them as long as you want with no return dates. I'm eyeing a stunning Chanel bag and some Miu Miu jewelry and I can't wait to style them. Plus, with the Vivrel membership, you get personal stylist, concierge services and exclusive perks starting at just $45 a month. Ready to elevate your style? Vivrel's got you covered. Go to www.vivrel.com and apply for a membership today using code CHARLOTTE304 for 30% off four months of membership. The code will also allow you to skip the vivrel waitlist. That's V-I V-R-E-L-L-E.com use code CHARLOTTE304 for 30% off four months of membership. This podcast is supported by BetterHelp offering licensed therapists you can connect with via video phone or chat. Here's BetterHelp head of clinical operations Hesu Jo discussing who can benefit from therapy.

F (47:49)

I think a lot of people think that you're supposed to be going to therapy once you're like having panic attacks every day. But before you get to that point, I think once you start even noticing that you feel a little bit off and you can't maintain this harmony that you once had in relationships. That could be a sign that maybe you want to go talk to somebody. There's always a benefit in talking to someone because we can all benefit from improved insight about ourselves and who we are and how we behave with other people. So if you're human, that's like a good indicator catered that you could benefit from talking to somebody.

Lena Waithe (48:23)

Find out if therapy is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com today. That's better. H E L P dot com this.

Jenna Ushkowitz (48:31)

Is Jenna Ushkowitz and Kevin McHale from and that's what you really missed. Jenna, did you get your delivery?

Kevin McHale (48:37)

I got my delivery, Kevin. I ripped it open. I'm like a stickler now that I have kids for having high quality products in our house all the time and Dietzen Watson has done that. So like I'm not afraid that when Emma wants to eat all my prosciutto, because she will, that it's okay for her to do that. Dietz and Watson has been handcrafting premium meats and artisan cheeses for over 85 years. They're family owned and operated and they never cut corners.

Jenna Ushkowitz (49:06)

Ever. They do things the right way, even if it's the hard way.

Kevin McHale (49:08)

They're transparent about what goes into their food and what doesn't.

Jenna Ushkowitz (49:11)

They know good taste doesn't need a long list of ingredients and they stick.

Kevin McHale (49:15)

To what matters, using the fewest, highest quality ingredients to craft their meats and cheeses.

Jenna Ushkowitz (49:19)

Visit dietzandwatson.com therightway to learn more about the Dietz difference.

Kristin Davis (49:25)

This is an iHeart podcast.