What Does One Wear to a Funeral?? (More with Alan Coulter)... (S2 E4 "Four Women and a Funeral")

Summary

Podcast Title: Are You A Charlotte?
Episode: What Does One Wear to a Funeral?? (More with Alan Coulter)... (S2 E4 "Four Women and a Funeral")
Release Date: July 17, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
Guests: Michael Patrick King

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Introduction

In this episode of Are You A Charlotte?, Kristin Davis engages in an in-depth conversation with Michael Patrick King, the acclaimed director and executive producer of Sex and the City. Together, they revisit the fourth episode of the second season, titled "Four Women and a Funeral," delving into behind-the-scenes stories, character development, and memorable scenes that have resonated with fans over the years.

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Revisiting Forgotten Plotlines

[03:47 - 06:38]
Kristin Davis begins by expressing her surprise at remembering certain plotlines she had forgotten during a rewatch. She brings up Javier's death from a heroin overdose and Samantha's complex interactions with other women, including confrontations with wives of her romantic interests.

Kristin Davis: "I do not remember any other time where Samantha has women, other women, like wives of guys that she's messed around with giving her a hard time like this." [04:42]

Michael Patrick King confirms her recollections, discussing the dynamics of Samantha's character and her interactions within these storylines.

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Character Development and Societal Reflections

[06:13 - 09:59]
The discussion transitions to Miranda's storyline about purchasing an apartment, highlighting the societal pressures and gender dynamics depicted in the show. Kristin reflects on how Miranda's panic attacks and fears of loneliness mirror real-life experiences of single women navigating similar challenges.

Kristin Davis: "When Miranda thinks she's going to die by herself... it's a big step forward in characters, Charlotte's character development." [12:05]

Michael Patrick King adds insights into the portrayal of these themes, emphasizing the show's commitment to realistic and relatable character arcs.

---

Behind-the-Scenes Insights

[11:06 - 19:10]
Kristin and Michael share anecdotes about interactions with other cast members, such as Molly Price and Seth Barish, providing a glimpse into the collaborative environment on set. They discuss the technical aspects of directing, including lighting and camera angles, that contributed to the show's distinctive aesthetic.

Michael Patrick King: "I never thought of that. It's a nice quality about her, is that she's very committed to whatever her latest thing is." [27:07]

Kristin Davis: "It's so good because you get to see something different every time you look at it." [06:59]

---

Analyzing Iconic Scenes

[28:31 - 37:00]
One of the highlights of the conversation is their analysis of pivotal scenes, such as the emotional phone booth moment where Carrie calls Miranda during a panic attack. They dissect the emotional depth and technical execution that make these scenes memorable.

Kristin Davis: "It's so great and it's so powerful. And I'm so happy that you were there so that it could be good." [29:33]

Michael Patrick King: "People tend to judge... you just have to do it and do the best you can." [48:16]

They also discuss the chemistry between characters, particularly focusing on the bowling scene between Carrie and Big, lauding its timeless romantic charm.

Kristin Davis: "It's like gangbusters. I could put it against any film scene of anyone in a romantic comedy." [45:50]

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Personal Reflections and Evolution

[37:00 - 56:23]
Kristin shares her personal growth in portraying Charlotte, reflecting on how her understanding of the character has deepened over time. She speaks about the balance between staying true to Charlotte's personality while evolving as an actress.

Kristin Davis: "When I'm watching it, because there's been kind of this fan... I'm just trying to look at it, right? And I see positives and negatives." [49:07]

Michael Patrick King reinforces the notion of evolving perspectives, acknowledging that while hindsight allows for critique, it also fosters a deeper appreciation for the show's complexities.

Michael Patrick King: "Every generation looks back on the previous generations and... people will stand as absurd in the future as they find that." [48:14]

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Collaborative Dynamics and Future Prospects

[56:23 - 56:16]
As the episode wraps up, Kristin and Michael express their mutual appreciation for the collaborative spirit that fueled the show's success. They reminisce about the camaraderie on set and the collective effort to bring authentic stories to life.

Kristin Davis: "You up everybody's game when you have a vision." [33:43]

Michael Patrick King: "It was a pleasure to work with you and the other women. It was just... a pleasure." [55:26]

---

Conclusion

This episode of Are You A Charlotte? offers listeners a profound exploration of Sex and the City's enduring impact. Through Kristin Davis and Michael Patrick King's candid dialogue, fans gain valuable insights into character nuances, storytelling techniques, and the heartfelt memories that continue to define the beloved series. The conversation underscores the show's relevance in contemporary discussions about women, relationships, and societal expectations.

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Notable Quotes

• Kristin Davis: "It's so good because you get to see something different every time you look at it." [06:59]
• Michael Patrick King: "People tend to judge... you just have to do it and do the best you can." [48:16]
• Kristin Davis: "I saw countless details that I hadn't noticed before." [06:38]
• Michael Patrick King: "Everyone's a critic, everybody's a judge." [48:43]

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Key Takeaways

• Character Depth: The episode emphasizes the intricate character development in Sex and the City, particularly Charlotte and Miranda.
• Behind-the-Scenes: Insights into directing choices, actor collaborations, and the technical aspects of filming offer a richer understanding of the show's production.
• Cultural Impact: The conversation highlights how the show addressed and influenced conversations around women's relationships, careers, and societal roles.
• Evolving Perspectives: Both Kristin and Michael reflect on how their views of the show have matured, appreciating its layers and complexities through the lens of time.

---

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of Are You A Charlotte?'s episode, offering both nostalgic reflections and analytical discussions that cater to long-time fans and new listeners alike.

Transcript

[Kristin Davis]

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Kristin Davis]

If it's the hard way.

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[Kristin Davis]

More about the Dietz difference. Hi, I'm Kristin Davis and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? So we're back to the beginning of the show. We're on for women and a funeral, which is wonderful. And we go to the funeral. Funeral. There's so many funny jokes. I mean I'd forgotten that this guy Javier died of a heroin overdose. But Carrie knew him when he was. What's the non. Javier, Harry or whatever. Like it's, it's all very funny. And she. We're at the. I had also totally forgotten about this entire Samantha storyline and I do not remember any other time where Samantha has women, other women, like wives of guys that she's messed around with giving her a hard time like this. I hadn't remembered any of that and it was super fascinating. Do you remember these women?

[Michael Patrick King]

Sort of, yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Like they're like society women. She has to go see.

[Michael Patrick King]

Oh, that's right.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, that's right. The grandam to try to get her because she makes out with some dude in his office and her, his wife.

[Michael Patrick King]

Walks in but she gets caught on the, on the sofa with the guy and the wife walks in. So yeah, she has to go and get on her knees virtually and plead her case with this woman, right?

[Kristin Davis]

And it doesn't work.

[Michael Patrick King]

Doesn't work.

[Kristin Davis]

And she shames her. And Samantha says, do you want me to say I'm a whore? I was like, what? I don't remember this at all. And part of me, I do feel like some of this. And I need to ask Darren and Michael. I feel like some of this. We got so much mixed commentary after the first season of like, who are these women? No one wants to date these women, you know, from male critics. Right. And I feel like some of that was incorporated into storylines to say, like, yeah, we know what you're all saying, you know, and by the way, we don't care. We're gonna write it in, you know? And I felt like that was the scene. And it's interesting because she says like, do you want me to say this? And the woman's just sitting there and then she says it and then it doesn't work. And then she's like, well, fine, you know, and then she goes and has to do like manual labor. And at the building of this charity thing that she was trying to me. I don't remember any of it. And it was so adorable. And she's wearing like regular clothes and she's dirty. But then it's Leonardo DiCaprio who we filmed without showing. Cause it's obviously not him. Do you remember this? You light him from behind and he reaches down to her. It's so good.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah, that little kind of silly moment of kind of an homage to the Leonardo da Vinci, you know, the fingers.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes. It was beautiful. It was so good. I didn't remember any of this. This is what I love so much about rewatching is like the details and the interesting things that there was so much of it. It was packed in to this, you know, 25 minutes, 22 minutes. And you look back and it's amazing.

[Michael Patrick King]

I know. It feels like an hour show. It really does. Not because it's slow, but because so much happens.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah, so much happens. And every little thing is really interesting. Especially when you're looking at it and then you think, like, I could watch it again. Like now I understand when people come up and say, I've watch show so many times and it's always so flattering. Now I really get like, you can see something different every time you look at it.

[Michael Patrick King]

Absolutely.

[Kristin Davis]

It's amazing. It's amazing. Anyway, I diverted from the in order rewatching, but that. That Samantha storyline really caught me off guard. I didn't remember it at all. And I think it's just so great and fascinating. So I'm there. We're there. I also think it's really funny that Carrie and I rarely dress the same. We dress in the black dresses, and we're, like, you know, critical. I'm like, is that an inappropriate outfit? I say to Samantha. And then we're the ones who are inappropriate. Cause we didn't wear the designer, Javier. Which is all kind of funny. And then we get there. I borrow Samantha's hat. Because I feel like I'm boringly dressed. And then it blows off, which I vaguely remember. Oh, my God. And there's another thing coming. But I'm gonna try to be in order. I mean. And then we talk about this woman. Getting her. The sister of the designer. Getting all the plastic surgery done, which, I mean. And then we make a Donatella Versace joke. I mean, we're very, like, kind of ahead of our time, I think, in some ways. Right. It's crazy. And then. And then Samantha decides to help them. So that she can get their mailing list, which is interesting. This is when, like, she's in, like, publicist mode. And then we're going to get. Oh, my God. I don't even want to tell my story yet. Because Miranda's story of buying the apartment is so fantastic. And literally hasn't changed. Like, when you go as myself, I have bought a house by myself. Thank God I have the money. They literally are like, and where's the money coming from? And, like, when workmen come over, they're like, and who should I talk to about the villing? I'm like, me. Like, it is so insane, the sexist element.

[Michael Patrick King]

Well, that's right. I mean, in fact, I know that. I really know the guy that plays. Making her fill out the form. So that's, you know, he keeps saying, and that. And finally, he's just her. And. And that's you or something, like.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. He's like. He's like. And. Oh. He literally says, is your father paying the down payment?

[Michael Patrick King]

Seth Barish is a. Actually a friend of mine. And he. He's just wonderful in that he's kind of very. He just. He doesn't even see her. He's just like, any guy, like, lawyer like that who's just. You know, this is just a object across the table from him. And.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

He's dehumanized her completely, the way he treats her.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. And I mean, I think we've all had those moments when you're dealing with money and stuff where people. You're not a person. But I Loved how you shot that too, because you don't do coverage. You just did the angle of them at the table looking at each other. And the profile, it's so powerful. And she is just sitting there going like, yes, it's just me. Yes, it's just me.

[Michael Patrick King]

I don't remember if I did close ups, but if I did, I did them in profile.

[Kristin Davis]

Got it. I mean, yeah, they are close ups. What I mean is you didn't come around. Yeah, they are. You're right.

[Michael Patrick King]

I didn't want to connect them. I wanted to say there is no connection here.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow.

[Michael Patrick King]

I didn't put the camera over them and connect them. I always kept them in separate scenes so that you're. You're saying there is no connection here. It's just too.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. And also it's just such a powerful shot because you kind of. There's a bit of backlighting. There might be another window there. And it's just very strong silhouette. Yet you totally understand what's happening in the scene. Like, it works. It works so beautifully. And I just love her entire storyline because poor Miranda. Oh, my God, she goes through it. She buys herself this apartment, which really should be just purely a celebration of your success in life. Yet she is made to feel bad by her neighbor who tells her that the woman before her died in the apartment and no one found her and her cat ate her face. Which, you know, hopefully is not true. Right. But her neighbor tells her this, and Miranda then has a panic attack in her apartment and almost chokes and has to call Carrie. And I only vaguely remembered all this, but it's like so powerful and good and amazing to think about how in many ways it's still so true for single women.

[Michael Patrick King]

Oh, yeah. No, it's. Yeah, I know. It's very. And I actually just footnote. Have nothing to do with anything except that I. Barbara, I think Barbara Spiegel or Barbara Siegel, I believe, played the real estate agent who brings her in.

[Kevin McHale]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

And I knew her because I had directed her in an off off Broadway play before I was even making a living as a director. I remember that.

[Kristin Davis]

That's amazing.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah. It was just a funny, small world, you know, it's fun.

[Kristin Davis]

It's fun to. I mean, we have the most amazing actors in literally every part in our show.

[Michael Patrick King]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I was just thinking I just had to get her name because I couldn't remember. Molly Price.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes. I had her on last week.

[Michael Patrick King]

She. She has a moment with you in another episode when the. The Dog. Your dog barks.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

That only a dog will be. And you're on the bed. You remember this?

[Kristin Davis]

Yes. It's so good, that moment.

[Michael Patrick King]

Her reaction. That is. I had to watch it, like, three times.

[Kristin Davis]

It's so good. And I had her on the podcast. She also came into the first episode of. And just like that, as Susan. Sharon and I went to college with Molly. Like, talk about multiple connections. Yes. We went to Rutgers with Bill Esper at the. You know, the conservatory within Rutgers.

[Michael Patrick King]

Well, I. It's funny. I know Bill Esper. Not. I know he is, because I had a girlfriend at that time who had studied with him.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh.

[Michael Patrick King]

And her good friend was Esper's assistant. Wow. But. But it's funny, but I had all these, you know, inner.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

Interconnect. These other kind of connections to Esper. So I'm very aware of him. And. And. Yeah.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes. And also, weirdly, at Rutgers in New Brunswick, Gandolfini was a bartender at this restaurant, the Frog and the Toad, I believe it was called something like that, that I used to go to before I quit drinking, which now I have quit drinking. And I think he was a BA student. We were in the BFA program. But he was there in a way. Not in a way where I saw him perform, but when I remembered that he had been the bartender. Cause he was really interesting, obviously. But, I mean, insane connections, Right? Insane connections. And just a little side note, because you're Sopranos and us, and you're the first person that I've talked to who has been both. But we obviously had just so many memories and so many. Like, to come up together was incredible. Obviously, we could never have even understood how incredible. Right. But do you remember at Silver cup when we would both be there and they would have. They were on Stage X, which we went back and shot. Not the. This past season of. And just like that, the one before we were back on Stuart. Silver cup, which is literally like, falling down around us. But we were there, and we. I. My set got to be on Stage X, which had been the Sopranos. You had to go outside to get into it. Yeah, yeah. I got to be there. I got to be there. I felt very. I felt very privileged. But back in the day, remember, there was, like, that middle area of Silver cup because it had been the bread factory, so it wasn't really like a proper studio. And the different stages would kind of have, like, a common area of hallways. And the Sopranos would have their aircraft services, which was like going to the best Italian restaurant that you could possibly imagine. And our craft services was really, really not that. No offense to anyone who made it, but we would just be like, how can we get over there? And they would guard that food. Do you know what I mean? Like, they'd be like, no, you can't come over here. And we'd be like, please, could we have some meatballs on like hour 15, right? You're like really wanting the Sopranos meatballs, but you can't have them. Do you remember all this? Like, like it's such a crazy time.

[Michael Patrick King]

I didn't realize that the mob was keeping you away from our food.

[Kristin Davis]

They were. They were prizing that food because it was good. It was really good. You ever notice how the best things in life don't make you choose? Like working in a fast paced, exciting city and then heading home to a quiet neighborhood to recharge. Or getting something high tech and smart without losing the style and comfort you actually want. That's exactly the vibe you get with Hyundai's hybrid lineup. Because with Hyundai hybrids you don't have to trade excitement for efficiency. You get the best of both worlds. A more fuel efficient drive without changing your routine. No stopping to charge, no learning curve. Just less time at the gas station and more time enjoying the ride. And no matter what your lifestyle looks like, there's a Hyundai Hybrid that fits. Need space for family, friends, gear or all three? Check out the Santa Fe Hybrid. It's a three row SUV that seats up to seven with available dual wireless charging pads and available WiFi hotspot capability. It's as connected as your group chat. Or go with the Tucson Hybrid, a sleek versatile SUV with standard HTRAC all wheel drive and modern features like available wireless device charging. It's perfect for city driving, weekend errands or a spontaneous road trip. If a sedan is more your speed. The Sonata Hybrid Limited delivers sharp performance with up to an EPA estimated 51 highway mpg. Or the Elantra Hybrid Limited which combines a sporty look with up to 52 highway mpg. With every model, you're getting advanced tech, eye catching design and Hyundai's top rated safety features. Plus the unbeatable confidence of America's best warranty. America's best warranty claim based on total package of warranty programs. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details.

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[Kristin Davis]

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[Kristin Davis]

It's just crazy to think about. I mean, there's something so adorably kind of humble and New York ish about the fact that we filmed those two shows. We started in 97 or whatever year. I think that was the year of our pilots. We filmed in an old brain factory that was not supposed to be a studio by hbo, who was not supposed to be a player. You know what I mean? Obviously turned into one. Thank God. But just the humbleness of it all in the beginning.

[Michael Patrick King]

Well, I have really. I mean, I agree with you. That was really. I mean, that's a. Well, that's well put. There was something about that, particularly my first season before the Sopranos was hit and Sex in the City, which was, you know, I guess it was the second season. There was something about that that I sometimes refer to it as, you know, the best summer job I ever had. What I did last summer, when you write those little things when you're a kid. And, and that was. It was really like. I remember walking out and Teamsters would be kind of leaning back in their folding chairs with a TV they'd set up because there was a Yankees were on and were playing. And.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

It was just like, this is. I remember thinking this is the best job you could have, you know, or you're doing the Sopranos and then you're doing Sex in the City. I just felt so privileged to be, you know, basically shuttling between those two shows.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

Cup, you know, with the greatest view of the city you could possibly imagine. Look like a backdrop for a play about New York, you know, Except. And. And I just. And so I agree with you. There was something about that. Aside from the fact that you got blocked from partaking of the food.

[Kristin Davis]

It's okay.

[Michael Patrick King]

You know what? Everybody on the Sopranos after the first season gained weight. I mean, if you look at the second.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. How could you not. It was incredible. It was incredible.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah. I mean, it was just, you know, and then I still remember not to talk about the surprise.

[Kristin Davis]

It's fun.

[Michael Patrick King]

I mean, it's the. It's the cousin of your show.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

Is that. I remember we would shoot. We were Shooting a scene at the Bada Bing and you know, the so called back room of the Bada Bing where they're all having lunch and imposter and stuff. And so when you do shoot an eating scene, and this would be true of Sex in the City, you always have a spit bucket so that people don't have to eat all this food and they just, you know, pretend to eat and then they just spit it out at the end of the day. So I'm, we're shooting that and I go over and, and I was looking at the guys and, and, and the guys had the spit bucket up on the table there, but it's completely clean. I said, what's, what's the deal there? He said, they just eat everything. He said. So we did like four, four takes and they would eat four meals, you know.

[Kristin Davis]

Wow. Wow. You know what? That. I think that's a theme because people have asked me about the spit bucket thing. We never ever used a spit bucket. But I think it was because Michael and I feel like also Darren really wanted us to eat and keep talking, right? So like, we didn't really have the opportunity to be like, okay, spit, you know, and we would, we would order something that wasn't going to be insane, right, for 8 million 100 takes or whatever. But like, you remember how they loved to have Cynthia with her mouth open, like, literally, like, you know, which she was game to do.

[Michael Patrick King]

You know, you guys did that very well because it's, it is hard for actors to, to eat and talk and it's always a challenge. And you guys, all four of you really make. You never question it. It just, it's just these women are just eating and talking and you never think about it. Then somebody wisely decided not to serve Marvin like spinach or something. So you didn't get it right.

[Kristin Davis]

But I mean, one time they have that as a storyline for Cynthia. Like, you know, they were just like, let's let Cynthia do all that stuff. And she does, she does. She doesn't. You know, she has no, like self consciousness about these things, you know, God, God bless her. All right, back to the show because that was really fun. Okay, so. Oh, wait, this is. See, one of the things I love about your episodes is that when I'm watching my own development as Charlotte and kind of easing into like my body, like being really present and letting go of some of the anxiety that I have in the first season, we're in the car after the funeral. It's Sarah Jessica Kim and I, and we're Just chatting. We all fit in the backseat. We must have been in some big old car, and you're. You somehow lit us beautifully in the back of this car. I don't know how. I don't really remember filming this. Which sometimes I do remember. Like, in the older cars, you could get in the front seat with the camera and. Is that what you did? Do you remember? Yeah.

[Michael Patrick King]

Remember? I mean, I. I think Michael Spiller, I'm sure shot.

[Kristin Davis]

We should ask Michael Spiller. Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

He gets credit for the lighting. I mean. Yeah. And, yeah, we probably are in the front of a. I can't remember if it's the limo, in which case.

[Kristin Davis]

I think it is.

[Michael Patrick King]

I think it is. I think. But again, you would have had to make sure that it was not a partition so you could get the camera there.

[Kristin Davis]

Right, right.

[Michael Patrick King]

I think at that point, we were not allowed to shoot kind of the wider format that we eventually did on both 178 or whatever it was.

[Kristin Davis]

Right, right.

[Michael Patrick King]

But originally it was, you know, a narrower format. So it's always hard to get three people.

[Kristin Davis]

Really hard. I know. That's what I was saying. I was like, I can't believe we're all here and we all look great. That's amazing. And it's very. It's like the beginning of Charlotte. Like, also at the dinner scene when I. They. They talk about Miranda saying, you know, that she's buying her apartment. And I say, oh, no. You know, it messes up the power structure between men and women. You have to rent. That's why I rent. Like, it's a crazy, crazy conversation. But the good news is they just giggle at me so lovingly. They don't roll their eyes. You know what I mean? They're just, oh, that's Charlotte. You know? But it's interesting because as much as I don't agree with my own character's point of view, at those moments, it is actually kind of makes some sense, you know, from that perspective. Right. Cause, like, here Miranda is thinking, like, I'm buying an apartment. It's amazing. Yet everyone's just doubting her and doubting her and doubting her and send her down a road of, like, self doubt where she has panic attacks and she's gonna die alone. You know, which is what society will do to you. You know what I mean?

[Michael Patrick King]

True enough.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. So Charlotte's kind of the voice of that in some ways, which is not unimportant, you know, but at the time, I remember being like, oh, no, I don't want to say this. You Know, because I'm not really like that. Right. But it's important, I think, to have the different point of views. And I think that's part of what was great about the show.

[Michael Patrick King]

Well, I think. I mean, your character. I mean, really, Charlotte, she really stands apart from the other three because they tend to be all pretty much in agreement. I mean, if they disagree, of course, but. But she really is always just tagging along. I mean, just, you know, they're either. They're somehow either correcting you or sort of gently teasing you or can't believe that, you know, I mean, even when you decide you've had it with men and you're just going to get a dog, you know, they're. They're pretty gentle about all those things. I think that I love the way it's handled because Charlotte is never treated poorly by any of the women as well. But she is clearly following her own drummer. I mean, that's for sure.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. Which is actually really strong in so many, so many ways. You know, when I look back on it, I mean, I did know, like, I don't think you had to direct any of the ones where I really give, like, a long, long speech. Like a didactic. Like, I have one where I have the book. I haven't gotten into it yet in the rewatch, but have a book about how to get a husband or something kind of like horrific. And I'm like, for like a page and a half, you know, and they have to just sit there and you know that they don't agree with it. Right. But I just keep going because that's how Charlotte believes, you know, like, she believes 100%, which I love that. But it's also hard.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah. But it's a good quality. I never thought of that. It's a nice quality about her, is that she's very committed to whatever her latest thing is, whether it's a dog or, you know, she just goes full ahead, full scene.

[Kristin Davis]

Most definitely. Most definitely. And like, with the. That's what I also like about the widow storyline in this episode. It makes such good emotional sense that this is interesting to her. Like when we're walking down the street, which I do remember shooting with Kurt Deutsch plays the guy. And I remember him struggling a little bit. I hope this is okay that I'm saying this with the. He's supposed to be crying. And this turns Charlotte on. And I remember. I feel like you guys had a conversation. Conversation about the fact that he might be putting it on.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah, I wondered about that when I was watching it and I thought, I'm not sure. I don't remember what I'd said to him. But I had the feeling when I was watching it, it's like, yeah, I'm not convinced that this guy is really feeling this, you know, and he's a good enough actor that if he needed to, he could. But.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

It may be one of those things. Again, I just don't remember quite what the conversation was, but it could be one of those things where it's like, there's some reality to it, but he just milks it.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. Well, because in the end, when all the other women get out of the car to come to this ceremony at the wife's grave, and they all have the lilies, and that's when I beat them with the lilies. And, sorry I gave you a terrible allergy. But that's. I'm glad. I'm glad. But that's. That's. It all makes sense when you. When you think it through. Right. Because he very well was milking it. But I do remember. I remember him being stressed and somehow you saying something to him that freed him to do the scene. You know, like, there are layers, you know, like, there's different ways to come at it.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah, I think that. But he. Yeah. No, but it's a sweet scene in a way. You know, I mean, Charlotte is so taken with his, you know, vulnerability.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. Which makes perfect sense for her. Like, it's good. I liked it. I hadn't remembered this as one of my. The main thing I remembered about this episode was the rain and the hill and. And ruining my shoes and being cold. And then when I look back on it, I'm like, no, no, this is, like, real. It's a big step forward in characters, Charlotte's character development. Because every element of that makes sense. Right. She goes to the girls. First of all, she says, you know, you gotta rent. Cause the power dynamic. Then she says, no, no, he's. He's full of feeling. You know, he's been through this thing. It shows he can commit, but yet he's vulnerable. And then, you know, he cries on the street. And she's like, oh, you know, she wants to mother so badly. You know, which I don't think she realizes in an intellectual way. But you see it like, it's a great episode for her. And I'm so happy that you were there so that it could be good.

[Michael Patrick King]

Well, I will say that what you just made me think is that Charlotte really is an interesting character in that she's always. She's willing for a person who's essentially cautious and conservative. She's always trying new things. She's willing to try something. She's very game about the next thing that she's going to do. So she fully commits to that new adventure in the search for Charlotte.

[Kristin Davis]

It's so true. It's so true. Especially in the early days, you know. And it's interesting as she's developed and as we go. And obviously, many, many things happen. And I'm still playing her. And sometimes when I look back, I'm like, I need to remember this stuff. Like, you know, because I'm still playing her. Right. I mean, it's in me. But, like, sometimes there's little details that I forget. And it's super fascinating. Oh, my God. There's another time when Miranda thinks she's going to die by herself. And she talks to. She calls Carrie. And Carrie is screening her calls because Big has been calling her after she called Big. I'm out of order now, but this is how I. How I roll. And Carrie, so sorry, Miranda says to Carrie is such a very rare moment. She says, you know, on my emergency list, I have my parents, but I don't even like them. And they live in Pennsylvania. And Carrie says, why don't you have me? And Miranda says, I can't put you because you screen your calls. This is when she's had to go to the hospital with a panic attack. It's such a great scene, and it's so powerful. And I don't remember her ever previously saying, my parents are in Pennsylvania and I don't like them. Like, it's so fascinating.

[Michael Patrick King]

Well, that's funny. But I had forgotten that. And now that you're saying it, I'd forgotten that. But also, too technologically, it must be interesting for people to watch it now because there's scenes in payphone booths. I mean, there's one scene, in fact, where Carrie calls from a phone booth. And I had decided to have it raining.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

Because I wanted the. Again, this is, you know, inside baseball here. But I like the suggestion of tears on the.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

And I think she's pretty emotional. It's when she.

[Kristin Davis]

We think she's calling Big, she runs off from.

[Michael Patrick King]

That's right.

[Kristin Davis]

Maybe Bradley Cooper. She runs off from somebody and she runs to the phone booth and you think she's. She's like, I had to call. And you think she's calling Big, but she's calling Miranda. It's so good.

[Michael Patrick King]

I know, it's great. And then it's raining there too. You know, it's on the windows. And, and it just, I, I always like to include. And I did it a good deal, like, whenever I could on Sex and the City of including weather because it's, it's, it's got a sensual quality. And people, you watch movies when there's rain or fog or there's, you know, it really, you feel it. And it makes the events feel more relatable because, you know, and, and it's visually really interesting too. And it was just better to see her through the refracted light of the raindrops on the glass and, you know, and so on.

[Kristin Davis]

Definitely. But, see, you just gave yourself away because you said we had to give credit to Spiller for the lighting. No, you are the mastermind. I knew it. I knew it because there's such a difference, like, because obviously everyone's working together. It's a true collaboration. Right. But you up everybody's game when you have a vision.

[Michael Patrick King]

Well, that's, I'd like to think that that's true. I, I, I did a. When I was just getting started, I did this show called New York Undercover. There was a DP on that. And he later became, you know, an executive producer on Criminal Minds, I think. And I went by for another reason that I was trying to help a woman who I was trying to sort of help her get started as a director. And so I went over there to say, you should have this person's shadow or whatever. And we ended up in a conversation, and he said something to me that at the time, I wasn't sure how to take it, but I think it was a good thing. He meant it well. And that was. He said, every time you would come to do an episode, I would get nervous because I was never sure I could do what you wanted.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, that's sweet. Though.

[Michael Patrick King]

It was, in retrospect, it was like, oh, okay, good. So I was challenging him and, you know, under limited circumstances, and that's not a show that was noted for its look, but, you know, but he was, he. But anyway, he said that, and I thought, well, good.

[Kristin Davis]

It's a great thing. It's a great thing. I mean, I think with actors, I've known different actors, some of whom want to feel that way from a director, and some of whom it might make us shut down. Right. So it's like, I personally, I feel like with you, the thing that you did that I loved, especially at the timing that you came right when we were like, all possibility, you know what I mean? I felt like we were excited and ready to play and ready to do all this stuff, but we needed guidance. We needed to get coalesced into what we became. And you were a big part of that. And for me, I felt like technically like that scene you said where we had to find the lens and kind of find the reason that we would walk to that person. Like, stuff like that is really like, ooh. Oh, we get to. We have to think and we have to do this and we have to remember and, you know, there's like an extra added technical challenge, which is really fun. But then from an emotional standpoint, you're very safe, feeling like we can ask you anything, we can talk to you. We can. We don't have to feel like, oh, we've got to keep our personal stuff in check and just perform. Which you do feel with some directors, you know, which I don't. I don't love that feeling.

[Michael Patrick King]

I'm glad that that comes across. I really do. Truly. With almost no exceptions, I can think of two. But other than that, of all the things I've done, I just love working with actors. I just, I really like to be around actors. I like to. I like the. I like to feel that it's fun and.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

Game and that, that. And I do think, maybe not quite consciously, I'm not going to let anything bad happen, you know?

[Kristin Davis]

Right. But we can feel that, you know.

[Michael Patrick King]

That'S great because I just want. I want everybody to have fun and to feel relaxed. I mean, because I don't think people. I mean, I'm sure there are directors who get great results by creating massive tension on the set, but I'm not one of them. I mean.

[Kristin Davis]

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[Kristin Davis]

Sometimes I am my guest is more interesting to me than my paper, and you are one of that times. So my listeners, please bear with me. I'm gonna try to hit the main parts. I mean, I feel there's so many important things that happen in this episode, but I feel one of them is the Miranda, which we have kind of hit on. And I feel like it's so great because it really, it really sets up so much of her future development, right? That she's afraid she's gonna die alone and that her cat's gonna eat her face. It's like so. But she's so good at it and also funny at the same time. Like when she's almost choking. She's really funny.

[Michael Patrick King]

I mean, yeah, she does. She finds a way to do that that's amusing. And it's not alarming, but amusing.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. Because it could be very scary. Because I knew what was coming. I remember I was like, oh, my God, this is when she almost jokes, but she's really, really funny. And then the other thing, that is so good. I mean, so many things are so good. But I love. Because I have previously been struggling with the big relationship in first season. And a lot of this has to do with the fact that, you know, we filmed the pilot 1997, and back then you didn't really talk about withholding men so much. It was just like, kind of how it was, you know what I'm saying? Like, we didn't have the social media vocabulary of like, blah, blah, blah, you're better than that girl. Whatever. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? It's different times and my own perspective is different. Being older. Right? And back then I just. I think I also feel that, you know, Charlotte was very pro big. And so I don't think that I questioned it because I play Charlotte and I. I just was like, yes, of course I'm pro big. Why wouldn't I be? You know what I'm saying? Like, you gotta play the character, you gotta commit. So I think I did. And now I'm looking back on it going like, Carrie deserves better. That's how I felt the whole first season. But this episode, what I see when I look at them, and I think this is because of this vibe that you're able to create. He is a completely different, much more likable, relatable, charming. Like when they go bowling, it is like an epiphany.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah, it is.

[Kristin Davis]

It's an incredible scene.

[Michael Patrick King]

I love that scene. I just watched it last night and. And I mean, they're both so cute.

[Kristin Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Patrick King]

Which after she.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, it's real. It's real. You can tell that Sarah Jessica.

[Michael Patrick King]

Oh, yeah, that's. I mean, and she's just adorable. I mean, she really is.

[Kristin Davis]

She really is.

[Michael Patrick King]

And it's like forgotten how adorable she is, right? On and off screen. Of course.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

My relationship with her primarily was on screen. And. And just watching that is like, she's so cute and so friggin funny. And. And then. And. And so is Chris. I mean, he.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes, he's.

[Michael Patrick King]

He. You go, oh, that's why she likes it.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes, exactly.

[Michael Patrick King]

That's why she likes him.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes, funny. Thank God.

[Michael Patrick King]

He's, he's funny, he's sexy, he's good looking. I mean, he's, he's all those things. And she is too. And so, I mean, and the chemistry between the two of them is so palpable, you know, and of course, there's the scene, it's not that episode, but where they fall in the lake, you know?

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

You know, it's very 1930s movie moment.

[Kristin Davis]

So great.

[Michael Patrick King]

It's like something Catherine Hepburn would do and.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

And they're charming in that. I mean, they're just.

[Kristin Davis]

Yes.

[Michael Patrick King]

These two human beings adore each other and have fun. And that's why I like that scene I mentioned on the bed when they, when they just think, you know, they, they can't. As she says, it's like that red wall. It's a good idea, but it just doesn't work. And that's the nature of that relationship. But you're right. I mean, I think they're. That scene, that bowling scene is really charming.

[Kristin Davis]

I mean, it's incredible. And it's the first time that I finally felt like. Because also it's so hard to really separate the people from the characters. Right. Cause obviously we were all together and I know them and whatnot. But when I'm watching it, because there's been kind of this fan, you know, upset about Carrie and Carrie, big together, whatever. And I've always been like, what are they talking about? But when I watch it back, I can kind of see from the lens of 2025 why they're like, why is she with him? Or why does she want him? Or why does she put up with that? But then by the time we get to this bowling scene, because of the ease. There's like an ease that I don't think. I mean, I think the chemistry was there since the pilot, obviously. Right. And she's her incredibly sparkly, charming self when you're on her. And he's his incredibly charismatic, slightly covered self when you're on him. And you can feel that there's something between them. But in this scene, the bowling scene and the sequence leading up to the bowling scene, like they have dinner and it's super sexy and all of that. But the bowling scene, just, if you just take that out and look at it, it's like gangbusters. I mean, I could put it against any film scene of anyone in a romantic comedy or not. It's amazing.

[Michael Patrick King]

Oh, that's nice. Yeah, I, I, yeah, I adored the scene when I saw it last night. And, you know, I mean, I I sort of was looking at it like I had nothing to do with it, you know?

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

It's like, objectively, they're charming and they're. They're swell together and, you know, and there is some. There's some moments. I understand. I mean, we live in a different world now and. And, you know, world in which it's very easy to judge the past from the superior position of the present. Something I find, frankly annoying at the time.

[Kristin Davis]

I get it.

[Michael Patrick King]

Just because it's like, you know, people feel like they know so much more than the ignoramuses who lived 20 years ago, who lived through it 20, 30 years ago. No, but you. You're a part. We're all a part of the period we live in. I mean, people will look back at those people who are standing in judgment on earlier, you know, generations and go, what's wrong with them? You know, I mean, it's. Every generation looks back on the previous generations and. And judges them. I unfortunately, I think that judgment is not to hold pontificate here, but go for it. Well, it's just people tend to judge. It doesn't matter. I mean, everybody's a critic, everybody's a judge. Everybody's got. Knows more, everybody's smarter, Everybody's, you know, would never make those mistakes, which is just absurd. I mean, you live in the time you live in, and just like we're living in one now.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

And those who stand in judgment in the past will look as absurd, frankly, in the future as to another generation as they find that, you know, people like the character Big looks to them, you know, it's a different.

[Kristin Davis]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, I mean, that's another reason I wanted to do the podcast is because I think it's super interesting, you know, to look at what's different, what's the same. But I don't want to judge. And I. Someone went on my. On my podcast, Instagram, and said, you know, what's your problem with Big and Carrie? You're. You. You keep talking about it, and I'm just trying to understand it. I don't. I'm not. I don't. I mean, we made the show. We made. I love the show we made. Like, obviously, I would never do a podcast about it if I didn't love it. I'm still doing the show. You know what I'm saying? Like, I love it, obviously. But this person said, you're being disrespectful. I'm like, no, I don't actually think I'm being disrespectful. I'm just trying to look at it, right? And I see positives and negatives. Like, it's a complex picture. You know what I mean?

[Michael Patrick King]

Other things that you would do different. I'm. Look, everybody in the. In our game would do something different. Would not be satisfied with their own work, would do something different. But we don't, you know, in hindsight, but.

[Kristin Davis]

Right.

[Michael Patrick King]

You don't get that you're not allowed to shoot something and see it from the perspective of someone 20 years later and judge it. You just have to do it and do the best you can.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. And the thing is, it's amazing. Like, that's what I love. Like, you know, thank God, right? Since I hadn't really seen it since way back, I'm like, well, thank God. Even the first season that I, in my mind, had thought was, like, a hot mess, right. I look back and there's so much good in it. And, yes, we're not. It hasn't gelled, I would say, but the pieces are there, right? And you're looking at it and you're like, where are they? Where's the light? What? You know, but there's something so charming about that and charming about the fact that we were allowed to find ourselves, you know, we were allowed to develop and keep going, and everyone involved wanted to be better. Right. So we're all in it together, and then we're adding elements. Like, you. Like, thank God for Michael Hill going. Yeah, let's get Alan Coulter over here. You know.

[Michael Patrick King]

Well, thank God I. Yeah, and thank God I had a great relationship with Michael, too. I mean.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. Because he held the purse strings.

[Michael Patrick King]

He did, but he was great. I mean, he was really. And. And. And the other Michael, Michael Patrick, you know, with him was great. And so I felt, you know, free to be. Free to be me. I mean, free to.

[Kristin Davis]

Yeah. And you made us feel free. And that's really like, such a powerful, powerful thing as an actor in any circumstance, but especially in the circumstance where we were really at that point building something. We were in, like, a growth phase, like a building phase, you know, where I think we knew it on some level that we had so much great stuff available to us, but it hadn't really, you know, found, like, you know, like, gelled in, like, 100%, but we're right on the edge of it. And then you come and I see it all bump up, like, so much, you know, visually, emotionally, like, our bodies are more calm, you know, just because of what you've created on the set, which is the power of a director. You know, you can create tension, you can create fear. You know, some people do that. That's their way. This is what I love so much about you. So many things, but number one, your vision was, you know, so elevated for us. Like, you took our show to the next level visually. And in terms of the storytelling and the way that you included these elements. And just talking to you, you're telling me so many other details that I hadn't even realized that now I have to go back and look again, which is. That's what you want, right? But then also, just what as an actor, I can say you created a confidence in me, like a trust that I could do it. You know, so, like, I was challenged, but at the same time, I felt like, oh, yes, I can. I can do this. I can play Charlotte. And when I look at myself on screen, like, my shoulders are down, like, I'm. My voice is calmer. I mean, I'm still her, right? But there's a level of ease that I didn't have until you came. So thank you.

[Michael Patrick King]

I'm thrilled to hear that. Really, it was really. It was such a pleasure to work with you and to. And the other women. I mean, it was just. I was so happy to be there, and it was just a pleasure. I mean, I was coming from a very dark world, you know, next door, literally, you know, where the food was protected and the world was. And it was a dark vision. And, you know, it was. It was like a big. I mean, I loved everybody. And, of course, it was a big, dysfunctional Italian family and with all the things that came with that. And then I would come over to Sexton City, and it was like, oh, this is such a relief.

[Kristin Davis]

That's so nice to hear. That's so nice to hear. I just remember also, just, like, the funny, like, cute, like, you brought so much charm just in your person journey. It was good. It was good.

[Michael Patrick King]

And I remember. I mean, I just forgot. And then I just saw it in one of the early. Maybe the first episode I directed. I can't remember where there was something. I was trying to get background to a guy to do something, and I couldn't get him to do it. I just. I explained it to him a bunch of times, and I was just kind of losing my patience. And Sarah Disk has said, well, you just do it. So there's a Momo.

[Kristin Davis]

You're standing on the street, and she bumps into you.

[Michael Patrick King]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Kristin Davis]

It was so good. I remember that, too. And I remember thinking, how did that happen? Because I don't think of you as being a director who's, like, trying to be in the show. You know what I'm saying?

[Michael Patrick King]

Not at all. Believe me, I was right.

[Kristin Davis]

Right. But it's so good. It's so perfect. And there's one time, too, and I don't think this was one you directed, but Spiller one time is a guy on the street talking to the camera, like, it's so funny. And then one time, Camille, who was in casting, is one of the people. Like, there's so many people that I think back then we were just, like, rolling as quick as we could. Right? So if, like, something happened with an actor, we were like, just get in there. It is really fun. Alan, you're a joy. I'm not even going to try to rewatch anymore because we covered our bases. We covered all the important things.

[Michael Patrick King]

That's great. I'm so glad. Thank you. I'm very honored that you asked me to do this. So thank you.

[Kristin Davis]

Thank you. You're my first director. That's not Michael Patrick King who's been on. So thank you very much.

[Michael Patrick King]

Honored. I'm honored and I'm flattered that you asked me. And it was fun to do. And you look fantastic, by the way.

[Kristin Davis]

I don't know.

[Michael Patrick King]

Whatever you're doing, keep doing it.

[Kristin Davis]

I have some big lights on me, as you can see in my glasses when I move around. But thank you so much. I also would like to live in your house. It's very beautiful and you look great, and I'm so happy that you're living up there, and I hope you're happy.

[Michael Patrick King]

I am. Thank you so much, Kristi.

[Kristin Davis]

Good, good. Well, just know that we love you and we think about you and sometimes we quote you on the set of and Just like that.

[Michael Patrick King]

I'm so happy to hear that. And please give my love to the whole gang.

[Kristin Davis]

I will. I will. You should come back and be with us.

[Michael Patrick King]

I adore them all.

[Kristin Davis]

I'm so glad. I'm so glad. We adore you back.

[Michael Patrick King]

Okay.

[Kristin Davis]

Nice to see you. Thank you for coming.

[Michael Patrick King]

Okay, See you.

[Kristin Davis]

Okay, bye.

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This is an iHeart podcast.