Armchair Anonymous: DNA Testing

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Episode: Armchair Anonymous: DNA Testing
Release Date: February 21, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of "Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard," titled "Armchair Anonymous: DNA Testing," host Dax Shepard and co-host Monica Padman delve deep into the intriguing and often unexpected outcomes of DNA testing. Through a series of personal narratives, listeners explore how DNA insights can unravel hidden familial connections, challenge personal identities, and reshape family dynamics.

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Kristen Padman: Unveiling Hidden Siblings

One of the episode's first guests, Kristen Padman, shares her journey of self-discovery through DNA testing. Kristen, an anthropologist with over a decade of sobriety and four years of improv training, always felt different from her three blonde-haired, blue-eyed sisters. Her introspective nature and love for reading set her apart in a family where vibrancy and sociality were the norms.

• Curiosity Sparks the Journey
  "I love reading Harry Potter, kind of off in my corner. Very introverted, so just felt very different," Kristen reveals at [06:27].

• The DNA Revelation
  At age 30, Kristen decides to take a DNA test, hoping to quench her lingering questions about her unique traits. The results reveal that she is a half-sister, sharing one biological parent with her sisters.

• Facing Family Secrets
  Upon discussing the results, Kristen learns of an extramarital affair her mother had with a milkman named Jim, making Kristen "the milkman's baby" ([10:28]). Despite the revelation, Kristen emphasizes her father's unwavering love and support, stating, "Nothing there would happen. I wouldn't love her less." ([11:32])

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Brooklyn: The Unexpected Reach of Sperm Donation

Next, Brooklyn shares her surprising experience as a sperm donor. Initially unaware of the extent of her biological children, Brooklyn's story highlights the profound impact of modern DNA testing.

• A Life of Giving
  Brooklyn had donated sperm over two decades ago, unaware of the numerous children that resulted from her donations. "They sold you expired sperm," she quips humorously at [43:27].

• Discovering Half-Siblings
  Through a DNA test, Brooklyn discovers she has fathered over 20 children, though she's only connected with a handful due to various factors. Her calm and reflective demeanor underscores the complexity of donor anonymity and the ethical considerations surrounding sperm donations.

  "I write to Bryce and let him know that I'm interested in connecting," she explains at [32:54].

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Jessica and Alice: Navigating Complex Family Ties

The most intricate narrative comes from Jessica and her daughter Alice, shedding light on the tangled web of relationships formed through anonymous sperm donations.

• The Initial Setup
  Jessica used an anonymous sperm donor to conceive her two daughters, Alice and Maddie. Years later, DNA testing reveals that Alice has half-siblings from multiple donors, including Brooklyn.

• Emotional Turmoil and Identity Crisis
  Alice expresses her struggle with her identity upon discovering her mother's multiple relationships. "You are who you are. Your blood's blood," she asserts at [49:16], highlighting the emotional complexities of understanding one's biological roots.

• Connecting with Biological Children
  Jessica recounts meeting her biological children, including Bryce and Maddie, through DNA testing services. "We are the babies of seven," she states, emphasizing the vast number of connections possible through these tests.

  "It's a fucking mess," Alice candidly shares her feelings at [49:16], capturing the chaotic nature of uncovering hidden family ties.

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Emotional and Ethical Implications

Throughout the episode, the hosts and guests reflect on the emotional and ethical dimensions of DNA testing:

• Validation vs. Betrayal
  Kristen and Brooklyn find a sense of validation in their discoveries, while Alice grapples with feelings of betrayal and confusion.

  • Kristen: "I just take it as I was validated," ([13:04])
  • Alice: "It's a fucking mess," ([49:16])

• The Role of Love and Biology
  The episode underscores that familial bonds extend beyond biological connections. "Love definitely makes a family, but biology also can make some sort of family too," observes Jessica, highlighting the nuanced interplay between nurture and nature.

• Ethical Concerns
  The stories raise important questions about donor anonymity, consent, and the responsibilities of sperm banks. "They sold you expired sperm," Brooklyn humorously points out the unforeseen longevity of sperm donations ([43:27]).

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Concluding Thoughts

"Armchair Anonymous: DNA Testing" offers a profound exploration of how DNA testing can unveil hidden familial ties, challenging individuals to reconcile their identities with newfound biological connections. Through Kristen, Brooklyn, Jessica, and Alice's stories, the episode captures the double-edged sword of genetic revelations—providing closure and understanding while also introducing complex emotional and ethical dilemmas.

• Final Reflections
  Dax Shepard encourages listeners to approach DNA testing with openness and preparedness for unexpected outcomes, emphasizing the importance of communication and support systems in navigating these discoveries.

  "These are surprisingly happy stories... But I want some bad ones," Monica jokes ([26:36]), reflecting the unpredictable nature of DNA revelations.

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Notable Quotes

• Kristen Padman at [06:27]:
  "I love reading Harry Potter, kind of off in my corner. Very introverted, so just felt very different."

• Kristen on discovering her half-sister at [09:10]:
  "I just take it as I was validated."

• Brooklyn at [43:34]:
  "I have a spreadsheet."

• Alice at [49:16]:
  "It's a fucking mess."

• Dax Shepard at [11:32]:
  "Would I have any heartbreak? That magic?"

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Conclusion

This episode of "Armchair Expert" masterfully navigates the personal and often tumultuous journeys individuals undergo when confronting their genetic histories. By sharing these authentic and heartfelt stories, Dax Shepard and Monica Padman provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the profound impact DNA testing can have on one's sense of self and familial relationships.

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Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman. Hi me guys.

[Monica Padman]

You gotta listen.

[Dax Shepard]

So lucky.

[Monica Padman]

You gotta listen to this one.

[Dax Shepard]

This is dynamite. This is the most I've retold, really ever. Oh, I've walked everyone I've seen since this episode. Through this episode.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, there's a few. Oh my God, all of them are incredible. But there's one that is seems impossible and it's not.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, 12 people maybe this has happened to. Yes, this is an incredible over delivered episode. Please enjoy crazy DNA testing stories. We are supported by Quinte. You know, Kristen's been ordering a ton from Quince.

[Monica Padman]

Quince is amazing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I told her, I go, you know, they're a sponsor. And she, she couldn't believe it. Being stylish and comfortable allows you to feel your best, making you ready to tackle anything that comes your way. That's where Quince comes in.

[Monica Padman]

I was just in the house and our friend Ana, she had borrowed a sweater from me. It's blue and it's from Quince. It's gorgeous and it fits so well. And when she was wearing it, I was like, I want it back.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

It'S effective, it's efficient and highly functional. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Head to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to get started, go to squarespace.comdax to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com dax to get started today Hard times come and go Good times take them slow My life, I had them both Remember one thing you gotta know Imma keep on shining. Hi.

[April]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello, April. Are you in a hotel room?

[Kristen]

I am actually at a place called Deloitte University. I'm in learning and development and I'm actually here all week delivering five different learning programs.

[Dax Shepard]

Which one do we need to know the most?

[Kristen]

I just wrapped up one called Future Forward. It was so fun. Lots of very interesting activities, lots of conversation about what the future of our workplace looks like and how to be agile and adaptable. All the buzzwords.

[Monica Padman]

Deloitte, the big accounting firm.

[Kristen]

That's right. We have our own hotel slash university.

[Monica Padman]

Wow, that's incredible.

[Dax Shepard]

When you're there for the week, teaching, they give you a hotel room.

[Kristen]

They give us a hotel room.

[Dax Shepard]

Is there room service?

[Kristen]

There is not room. But I will say they feed us well. There are break stations on every floor. There's a huge market, a place called the Barn.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that sounds nice.

[Dax Shepard]

They've won me back.

[Monica Padman]

Do the hotel rooms have tissue boxes?

[Kristen]

There is in the bathroom. I should have thought ahead and brought it over close to me.

[Dax Shepard]

Old me would have needed that, not new me. Because I don't blow my nose anymore and I don't cough anymore, no matter how bad I want to.

[Monica Padman]

I noticed today you wanted to clear and you didn't.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I don't think I have yet.

[Kristen]

Since I've been around much less editing for you.

[Monica Padman]

My guy, he's taken one.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but we're going to lose something from it. Probably. I bet the guest feels more comfortable that I'm so gross and disgusting. Like, oh, cool, it's laid back. This guy's a gross monster.

[Monica Padman]

Still giving off laid back vibes.

[Dax Shepard]

Laid back vibes. I'm in a tank top, I suppose. Okay, so you have a 23andMe and or DNA story. April, let us have it.

[Kristen]

Okay, so I am one of four girls, so three sisters. I know. My poor dad.

[Monica Padman]

Your lucky dad.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He's going to live six years longer because of that.

[Kristen]

That's right, girl. Dads are the best. And he really is the best. So I'm the second in line. And what first caught my attention as a child is that all of my sisters have blonde hair and blue eyes or green eyes. My dad has this bright blonde hair and these really bright blue eyes. My mom, red hair, green eyes. Okay, I came out dark. Dark head of ha hair, really dark eyes. Second born. We can kind of chalk that up to like. Okay, there's some genes in there that are going further back that could happen.

[Dax Shepard]

Although if we are led to believe what we learned about Mendelian punant squares. Yes, the two greens and the blue should have all been recessive and we shouldn't have been able to have brown eyes with that mix.

[Monica Padman]

Could be big R, little R, big R, little R making two little R's. So then there could technically be a combination.

[Dax Shepard]

But since brown is dominant, you have to have two little bees to get blue. So the. The mom had two little Bs and the dad had two little Bs. No one had a big B to give again. They might have oversimplified it for us.

[Kristen]

I thought about all this growing up. There's also the fact that my sisters are all very rambunctious. They love to dance, very social. I was like the antisocial child Monica. I love to read Harry Potter. Kind of off in my corner. Very introverted, so just felt very different and then tack onto that. Throughout our childhood, we would go out to eat at restaurants or even in school. People would ask us how we were related. We had the same last name. Obviously they knew we were. When we said sisters, everybody often asked, are we full blood sisters? This is mid, late 90s, early 2000s. So that sort of got me questioning. I do feel different. What's going on here? So I did ask my parents a couple of times. Is there something I need to know? Was always told no. I asked my grandparents. I was always told there was nothing more I needed to know. But I never let this go as a Topic. So the running joke in my family to me was that I was the milkman's baby.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Good.

[Kristen]

You guys have heard the phrase. So fast forward. I've asked this question to my mom even into my adulthood.

[Brooklyn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Cause you're like, I'm an adult now. I can handle it. If you had a fling.

[Kristen]

Right. And there's something fun about the mystery of it all, but same answer every time. I have two children, shout out to Brody and Brynn. They're little armchairs in the making.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I love that.

[Kristen]

I'm looking at both of them and I'm like, they really look like me and my husband, and they really look like each other, biologically speaking. Now I can look at my dad and my mom and say, something's not adding up here. So I decide at 30, I'm going to take a DNA test. I don't tell anyone. I get the DNA test. I take it. It comes back several weeks later, and there's nothing earth shattering. I get some third, fourth cousins. But there is one person who comes up. He's a first cousin, and I don't recognize the name. So I messaged the guy and he responds back a couple days later, and he tells me that he's actually adopted.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, okay. So that's confusing.

[Kristen]

Not a lot to go on. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Cause I was going to say your independent of any other information are useless. You need your three sisters to take it, or your mom or your dad. The only thing you could have done is figured out through this cousin.

[Monica Padman]

This is where in the TV show that you take the hair out of the hairbrush and you put it in your pony.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, sure, sure.

[Kristen]

I was trying to crack this nut without anyone knowing, just so I could have the results myself but not break open any big secrets of the family. I was trying to be very demure, very mindful. Yeah, my two younger sisters look just like my dad. Older one looks like my mom. So I talked to my younger sister and she said she's going to take the same DNA test. And a few weeks go by and we both get the email and we say, okay, we're going to call each other before we open it. And we opened it. We are half sisters, niece or aunt.

[Dax Shepard]

What would be more confusing? You were a little sister's aunt. I got to try to figure out that on the family tree.

[Monica Padman]

What's the feeling when you open it and you see it?

[Kristen]

I felt like this is my lifelong mystery solved. I knew that something was up the whole time, and I was right. My family's still my family. My mom and dad divorced, by the way, when I was 18, so they're not together anymore. And I think maybe she doesn't know who my dad is, or maybe she's just not 100% sure, and that's why she never wanted to tell me. There are some secrets she doesn't want to confess to. But now I have these results. I know for sure there's nothing more to hide, and I want to know who the person could be. So I call her up and I say, mom, Misty and I took a DNA test, and guess what? We're half sisters. She really took it like a champion. And she was very matter of fact. She said, okay, his name is Jim. He was 10, 12 years older than me. He was going through a divorce. He's got two other kids. I mean, it's just bombshell after bombshell. She knew this guy. They dated for a little bit, but here's the real kicker. She met him because she was working at a pharmacy, and this man drove the Borden's Dairy milk truck.

[Dax Shepard]

He actually was the milkman. Oh, wonderful.

[Monica Padman]

So good.

[Dax Shepard]

It's got a bow on it.

[Kristen]

And that was the part of the conversation that I stopped and I laughed and I said, do you mean to tell me that I really am the milkman's baby?

[Dax Shepard]

Clearly, she was still actively married to your dad because kids came before and after you. It was an extramarital experience.

[Kristen]

There was a separation. She was only 21 when I was born.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. She's horny, of course.

[Kristen]

Very young, very much. Haven't figured out life yet.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, did your dad know?

[Kristen]

There's a little bit of some drama here. My mom says that he knew, but when I went and talked to him, because, really, I wanted to thank him for knowing that I wasn't his biologically, but still raising me the same as my sister, never treated me any differently. He got really emotional when I had the conversation with him because he said he really didn't know that. She had sort of alluded to it once, but then took it back and never brought it up again.

[Dax Shepard]

I got to really work through. If I found out Delta wasn't biologically my daughter, obviously I couldn't love her less.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Nothing there would happen. But would I have any heartbreak that I have nothing to do with? That magic?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, see, that's your ego.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I would feel deceived not by the kid, but by the partner.

[Dax Shepard]

Sexual partner.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, I just adore so much. I don't think I'd really give a shit.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think your feelings towards her would change at all.

[Dax Shepard]

Correct. And I almost think I would be grateful that Kristen had chosen what she did because I feel this way about her and I love it so much. And I think I would agree with the decision. But we're not divorced. And your folks were divorced when you told them this.

[Kristen]

They were not together when I told them. And I'll tell you, my grandparents are actually who had the hardest time with it. Cause I'm so close to them. And of course, this is my grandpa on my dad who raised me's side. He will still find old pictures of distant relative family members that he thinks I resemble.

[Dax Shepard]

He's still living in another reality. Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

That's okay.

[Kristen]

I love him. He's my papa and that'll never change.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So did you go find Jim?

[Kristen]

I found him. I got to give my younger sister a little surprise. I didn't actually mean to tell her in that way. I just messaged her to ask her for her dad's contact info and I didn't give her a reason why. And she joked back to me and said, why are you my long lost sister?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. The cliches are coming through.

[Monica Padman]

Careful what you joke about.

[Kristen]

I did get to meet him and kind of hear about his family, family history and very pleasant guy. But my life worked out the exact way it was supposed to because he even said he wouldn't have been in a place to be a really great father for me at that time in his life. So it really worked out well.

[Dax Shepard]

You have a great attitude about all this. You just took it as I was validated. I knew. So it's a victory and I don't feel sad about it.

[Kristen]

I appreciate that. Now I know there's a history of breast cancer in the family. Never knew that before. So these are good things to know.

[Monica Padman]

That's true. Thanks for sharing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That was great. April.

[Kristen]

Of course. Thank you guys so much for having me. Would it be okay? Can I take a picture of us?

[Dax Shepard]

Of course.

[Monica Padman]

I'm going to look in the camera.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm going to flex. I'm not really, but a little bit.

[Kristen]

All right, everybody say cheese.

[Dax Shepard]

Wonderful.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, so nice to meet you.

[Dax Shepard]

Good luck with the rest of your week of teaching.

[Kristen]

Thank you so much.

[Dax Shepard]

Bye. Bye. Oh, wow.

[Monica Padman]

What a nice woman. A good person for that to happen because that could really take someone down.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep.

[Monica Padman]

I would have a very hard time with that. Luckily, I look like my parents almost exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, I know enough to know I don't really know how I'd feel about it, but certainly when I think about it, it wouldn't bother me either.

[Monica Padman]

I wouldn't be mad at anyone, but I would feel untethered. I don't even know who I really am.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but you and I both are so identical to our dads. And that's the only one you can find out. Then your mother has a type. Cause she obviously fucked a guy that was identical to your dad. And same with my mom, that means she fucked my grandpa or something. Because I'm just saying, I'm such a shepherd. It's insane.

[Monica Padman]

But I just think then that would be very telling for nurture. Obviously, they are my parents, so none of this is helpful. So, knock on wood, they're my parents. Also, I just read something recently that made me upset. That is a ding, ding, ding to this. Green eyes are the most rare.

[Dax Shepard]

You didn't know that?

[Monica Padman]

I just wanted it then.

[Dax Shepard]

My mom has green eyes.

[Monica Padman]

I want it.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, I'll ask her, I guess.

[Monica Padman]

Can you check with her on how she did that? You could have had them.

[Dax Shepard]

I think I'm right about that eye thing.

[Monica Padman]

You're right.

[Dax Shepard]

You have to have both recessive. You can only pass on a recessive.

[Monica Padman]

Because they both have little R's.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, little B's.

[Monica Padman]

I like ours.

[Dax Shepard]

I think there are more genes than just one to determine eye color. So I think it was given to us a little simplistically.

[Monica Padman]

I think so, too. But that was so fun making those little squares.

[Brooklyn]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Can you hear us?

[April]

I can hear you. Can you hear me?

[Dax Shepard]

Beautifully. What name are we going to use for you?

[April]

I couldn't decide. Honestly. Everything felt silly. So whatever you guys want.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. You ready for a wild one?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Brooklyn.

[Monica Padman]

I get it.

[Dax Shepard]

Doesn't she look like a Brooklyn?

[April]

Oh, I like it.

[Dax Shepard]

You have a candle. You've set the scene.

[Monica Padman]

This looks like a spa.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you just out of a treatment? Are you just out of a Swedish or a deep dish?

[Brooklyn]

I really wish.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you allowed to tell us what part of the country you're in? Brooklyn. Even though we're using a fake name.

[April]

I am in New Jersey.

[Monica Padman]

Almost Brooklyn.

[April]

Which is super weird because I kept getting Cedar Point ads. I don't know if it has anything to do with you, but I live nowhere near there.

[Monica Padman]

It definitely has to do with.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you're probably six hours away. Worth the drive, in my opinion.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. Do not do that. Just go to your nearest Six Flags. There's one close.

[Dax Shepard]

Someone wrote in the comments they didn't acquire Cedar Point. They merged. And the current CEO is the CEO of Cedar Point.

[Monica Padman]

Six Flags over Cedar Point.

[Dax Shepard]

Everyone shut your mouth. Okay. Sorry, Brooklyn. Okay, so you're in New Jersey, and you have a tasty DNA story because you don't want to use your real name.

[April]

Yes. Just to set the scene. My parents met when they were 13. They had me when they were 21, my sister when they were 24. So they were always the cool, young parents, and everyone was always like, oh, my God, your parents are still together. They're so young. So fast forward 2019, my dad was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis.

[Dax Shepard]

What on earth is that?

[April]

It is an autoimmune disease that essentially fuses your spine together. So it's super painful. It's not anything that's curable. So at that time, he was going to a lot of doctor's appointments. The day after Christmas in 2019, we knew he had a doctor's appointment.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm home.

[April]

I'm cleaning up after Christmas, and Dad calls and he says, I need you to come to the house right now. I was like, okay. Is everything okay? I don't want to talk about it. Just come over. I immediately call my sister. I said, did dad call you? And she said, yeah. What the hell's going on? I said, I don't know. I'm on my way. In my head, Dad's dying of cancer.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

This is awesome.

[April]

He was supposed to be at the doctor. I am near tears. This is that kind of talk. So I get to the house. They're not crying, but my mom, you could tell she has been crying. So we sit down. I said, what is going on with you guys? And my dad said, me and your mom were out today. We were on the way to the doctor, and your brother reached out to us on Facebook.

[Dax Shepard]

Excuse me.

[April]

So he starts telling us the story. When they were 15, my mom got pregnant.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[April]

He just hoped it would go away. And it didn't.

[Dax Shepard]

They tend not too.

[Monica Padman]

That's the problem with those.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

They're kind of permanent.

[Dax Shepard]

Hard to get half pregnant. We are supported by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like, you know, to check your sunroof first before driving through the car wash. Like, you know, to put the leash on your dog first before you open the door to go for a walk. Walk. Not that I've ever made that mistake and had my dog run outside without me or scream his name repeatedly over and over and over again until I found him. Or, you know, to check that the guy who asked you out is an armchair first before you agree to go on a date with him. Sage advice Essential Checking first is smart, so check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. This content is intended for audiences in the US Only. Savings vary. Terms apply Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates Northbrook, Illinois we are supported by the Lenovo Yoga Aura Edition imagined with Intel. You know we love chatting and learning about AI here on the show. With the incredible advances in tech and AI over the last couple of years, you need a laptop that can keep up. Great news. Lenovo and intel have joined forces to engineer the best laptops in the the Lenovo Yoga Aura Edition is an impossibly thin, light laptop. It can go wherever you do. Plus, the battery automatically optimizes for efficiency so you can go longer without a charge. No more hunting for outlets at a coffee shop. It also has a fully equipped touchscreen with bold, popping visuals that retain accuracy across your projects. It's perfect for digital artists, designers, amateur photographers and more. Even movie lovers will love watching this because you don't just want your technology to work, you want it to help elevate your work to places you never expected. It's possible on your Intel AI PC. Learn more about Lenovo Aura Edition AI [e-mail] Aura we are supported by Mint Mobile. It's time to leave your overpriced wireless plans Jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages get huge savings With Mint Mobile. They're offering any three month plan for only 15 bucks a month. Even their unlimited plan. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can even bring your current phone and number. Ditch overpriced wireless With Mint Mobile, it's so easy. Sign up online and get three months of premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. Month if you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] Dax that's mintmobile.com Dax keep your money where you can see it and stop overpaying for wireless. Upfront payment of 45 for three months. Five gigabyte plan required equivalent to 15amonth. New customer offer for first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. C Mint Mobile for details.

[April]

So she has my brother. They essentially take him away. She doesn't get to see Him. Doesn't get to hold him. Does not know where he's going. So this is my full biological brother from both of my parents.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. And he's older than you.

[Alice]

Crazy.

[April]

Yeah. So he's six years older than me. And so my parents are looking at us like, we are so sorry. I know we should have told you, but we never thought we'd ever see him again. But we knew they did 23andMe. But we kind of just thought it was, like, for fun not knowing they were looking for my brother. But the funniest part about it is I wasn't upset because I was just so glad my dad wasn't dying. All I could think about was like, oh, my God, it's just a brother. That's really not that big of a deal, guys.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a bonus. But I can definitely imagine for your parents, as I would get older and have kids and have this experience with my kids, it would retroactively make me go like, oh, my goodness, our child's out there. We must see that child.

[Monica Padman]

Also, if this really was you, let's say it's you.

[Dax Shepard]

It's me.

[Monica Padman]

Can you imagine the kind of guilt? Because your life is really good and your children's lives are really good. And to think, well, what happened to that kid? And what if they didn't end up in as good of a situation? That's a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm not shocked. They were looking, I think, for them.

[April]

To hold on to that so much. You know, if somebody asks, oh, is this your oldest? And in your head you're like, kind of.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[April]

I was 28 when we found out, so that was a really long time for them to hold onto that. So we end up meeting my brother. It was right before COVID happens. We found out that he was married to his high school sweetheart and had an eight year old son.

[Dax Shepard]

Just like mom and dad.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[April]

But so the weirdest part of it all is how often our paths really crossed throughout all of our lives. He was adopted by a family that. That's 15 minutes down the road from where I grew up. His adoptive mother was a beauty queen, and his father was the mayor of this New Jersey town that I lived in.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[April]

They had two biological daughters before him and then adopted him. Him and I commuted to Manhattan on the same trains all the time. We have the same stories of being stranded because of train delays in the same places at the same time. My mom's cousins knew his sisters in high school.

[Dax Shepard]

Listen, you're lucky you never dated Them. That's really. This is the most important part.

[Monica Padman]

That's why this stuff gets scary.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Because you would meet them and you would feel this crazy familial thing that you would not chalk up to that and it would be very confusing.

[April]

Exactly. My brother's a good looking, successful guy.

[Monica Padman]

Is he single?

[Alice]

No, still married.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah, I forgot. His high school sweetheart. Damn it.

[Dax Shepard]

Get her out of the.

[April]

His brother in law lived a couple houses down from me in the same town.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. This is bizarre. But your parents didn't know that.

[April]

No, they didn't know any of that. And that's what's so strange. But there's pictures of my brother in the newspaper with his dad. My parents have probably looked at those pictures, not really knowing it was him.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it's really great news that he ended up with a wonderful family.

[April]

Yes, totally. And then for him to reach out to us and seeing my parents are still together, I mean, he got two more sisters.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. He's like, I'm good on the sisters. Is there a cool brother I can hang with? So have you guys become close?

[April]

He was in my wedding. We've all gotten super close. We've gone on vacations with his in laws.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, this is lovely.

[April]

You can see my mom feels complete.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I bet.

[Dax Shepard]

And do they have a sweet relationship?

[April]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. My mom is like constantly stealing her grandson to babysit. She annoys them all the time, the same way she annoys me.

[Dax Shepard]

And did his adopted parents feel at all threatened by any of this or. They're totally cool with it.

[April]

They were totally cool with it. His adoptive mom lives in Florida now, so she's not local anymore. And his dad did pass away, but his sisters have reached out to me. They messaged me on Instagram and they could not be any sweeter. So it was really a wild, cool thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Big win. This is really glad you didn't date. It's really cool.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, just circle back to this.

[Dax Shepard]

Considering he's like a full brother too, that'd be really bad.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that'd be real real.

[April]

Maybe do 23andMe before dating anybody.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, let's do it in your teen years.

[Monica Padman]

I'm scared to find stuff out on there though. It's hard to find a partner. If I really fell in love with someone, I would not want to find out they were my full brother.

[Dax Shepard]

It's better to not know.

[Monica Padman]

I just don't want to know.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right. Just have a child that's a Cyclops and then ask Yourself. Why? Why'd that happen?

[Monica Padman]

Worth it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, well, Brooklyn, that was kind of an uplifting story.

[Monica Padman]

I liked that a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

Life affirming.

[Monica Padman]

Well.

[April]

And thank you guys for everything you do. You guys are not just my favorite podcast. You' actually the only podcast that I will listen to.

[Dax Shepard]

Good. Don't stray. We don't know how we'll hold up to competition.

[April]

All the others are either too light, too dark. You guys really just kind of fit right in the middle.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you. We aim to listen. Delightful meeting you. For real.

[April]

All right. Thank you guys so much.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, take care.

[Monica Padman]

These are surprisingly happy stories.

[Dax Shepard]

I know. I'm kind of relieved.

[Monica Padman]

Me too. But I want some bad ones.

[Dax Shepard]

How could they even go bad? They're always going to probably be this. Right?

[Monica Padman]

Well, it could have gone incest.

[Dax Shepard]

Can only hope. Well, you got a twofer coming up next.

[Monica Padman]

What's that?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, two people. Wow. This is a first.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, this is exciting. I'm nervous.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm Butterfly.

[Monica Padman]

I was gonna say something, Gord.

[Dax Shepard]

Dating your brother. What if you found out you weren't related to your brother and then started dating him?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you're like, oh, my God, this is the best news. I've always been so attracted to you, and I haven't been able to figure it out.

[Dax Shepard]

That would be a story. Is that siblings found out they weren't siblings and promptly started dating.

[Monica Padman]

But really, we know that's not gonna happen because the pheromone exchange.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. You mapped each other's smells and stuff.

[Monica Padman]

Ew. Hello.

[Brooklyn]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Hi. Is this big? A little Aron?

[Brooklyn]

It is.

[Dax Shepard]

Aaron, you'll be our first dual caller. Is there a Jessica also joining us?

[Brooklyn]

She'll be here momentarily.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, exciting.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, this cool painting behind you, there's a butterfly and airplane, and it looks to be flying over, like, Mexico City or something. What's happening in this photo?

[Brooklyn]

Jess put that together. It's kind of a collage. She'll have to tell you the story of that.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. A lot is riding on Jess's appearance.

[Brooklyn]

She's the more charismatic of the two of us.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, don't sell yourself short.

[Monica Padman]

Aaron. Don't do that.

[Dax Shepard]

Where are you guys at?

[Brooklyn]

We are on Vashon Island, Washington state.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Jessica has joined us. Jessica, the painting collage. What city are that butterfly in that airplane above?

[Jessica]

Oh, he's facing the wrong way. Okay. Absolutely nothing. That is actually a painting I did in college over a very ugly palm tree from one of those mall furniture decorating stores that you go to in grad school. And you're like, score. This is four feet by two. It's gonna take up the whole room, and it's gonna cost $39. Okay, so I just dragged that thing around for years.

[Dax Shepard]

What is the relationship here between you and Aaron?

[Brooklyn]

Well, we're gonna tell you that.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, this is gonna come up.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Okay, we're excited.

[Monica Padman]

Let's jump in. We need to know.

[Brooklyn]

Technical matter Jess did.

[Jessica]

I'm doing it as we speak.

[Dax Shepard]

This is such a couple already, though. Cause she's like, you're facing the wrong way. And then he's in charge attack.

[Brooklyn]

I mean, if I have it facing the window, it's usually just like a bright white nothing. All right, so I've been selected to start the story. So it's 1984, I'm 28, and let's say I'm between things. I've recently returned from a year of teaching English in the Canary Islands. Instead of staying in paradise for some dumb reason, I come back to the US and then don't know what to do with myself, so I move into my mom's basement and start driving a taxi. I also start dating a German woman, Kirsten, and it gets kind of serious, but then she goes back to Germany for work. We decide, however, to keep dating and have a long distance relationship. Then one day in the local newspaper, I see an employment ad seeking sperm donors to help infertile couples. It turns out that infertile couples means lesbian couples about 95% of the time. But I only learned that much, much later. Since Kirsten and I are being monogamous, this jerk off job, as it were, seems both like easy money and a good outlet for my sperm. I get hired and I wind up donating. They pay me, so I don't know why they refer to it that way, but I wind up donating about twice a week for a year.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, so 104 trips.

[Brooklyn]

Probably a little less than that.

[Dax Shepard]

I tried to do this at UCLA because they were paying money for UCLA sperm, and I went in and did a deposit, and then they said, your sperm count isn't high enough, so you're more virile, you're more manly than I was. Were they looking for a cab driver living in mom's basement when they.

[Brooklyn]

Despite that career profile, I went to Johns Hopkins, so maybe that helped.

[Monica Padman]

That definitely helps.

[Brooklyn]

Okay, so at this end of this year of donating sperm, I moved to Germany to be with Kirsten. That relationship doesn't last too long. Young, but in any case, I go on with my life, and I don't give the sperm donation much thought. I'd signed a mutual confidentiality agreement with a sperm bank, and DNA testing doesn't exist yet. So I just assumed I'd never learn anything about any children born. I don't ever get involved in a serious relationship and have children the standard way. So fast forward 30 years to 2016, and I begin to see ads for 23ad and me. I immediately understand that if I get a DNA test, I might be able to find my progeny. And I'm intrigued. But I procrastinate signing up for about a year. But finally, I order the test, spit in a test tube, and mail it off, having no idea what the odds of finding any of the children are. A few weeks later, I get the results back.

[Dax Shepard]

Hold on one second. I do want to ask, when you spit in the test tube, what would have been your guess of how many kids resulted from these 100 plus or minus trips?

[Brooklyn]

I did do, like a kind of back of the napkin calculation. Based on odds of conception, it seemed like 60 to 70 children might be possible.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah, this is wild already.

[Brooklyn]

Okay, so I get the results back and find exactly one child, a son named Bryce, age 20, who lives in New York. I was in Pennsylvania at the time. I see this result in. I'm like, yikes, what do I do now? I spend about a week thinking about what to write to him. And he's also on 23andMe. So I wonder if he's noticed me or been notified about my existence. And I wonder if I'm failing some sort of unwritten DNA test results. Getting etiquette. I write to Bryce and let him know that I'm interested in connecting. I tell him a little bit about myself. He writes back to me in about five minutes, fly flat. And he writes back with a email that starts dad, exclamation point. Which is really alarming because I'm wondering, what expectations does this guy have of me? But it turns out he's just joking around and having fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. He's got your sense of humor.

[Brooklyn]

He's very smart and funny. We make a positive connection, and pretty soon he connects me with another of my kids, Maddie, who's also about 20, adoption daughter, who he found through a different service. In fact, he's found in total five other children. So I immediately go from one to six. Except for Bryce and Maddie. All the other ones are younger. They don't really come into this story. Bryce and Maddie and I wind up corresponding with each other. We have like a Facebook chat going. We get to know each other a bit. We exchange life stories and pictures. Our resemblance to each other is pretty striking. There was no doubt out that the results were accurate. But they're young college students in their 20s. They have other things going on in their lives. So after not too long, things go dormant and we occasionally like each other's Facebook posts. A few months pass and then in early 2017, I get a kind of confusing message through 23andMe from a daughter named Alice, aged 11. But really it's her mother, Jessica that's writing. And this seems like a good place to bring Jess in to tell her side of the backstory.

[Jessica]

Okay, yeah, that's me.

[Dax Shepard]

This is a Reese's Peanut Butter cup sound experiment. We're looking to find the perfect way to hear Reese's so you'll buy more of them. Here we go. Reese's, Reese's. Reese's. Reese's. Reese's. Reese's. Hey, get out of here, you little stinker.

[April]

Reese's, Reese's.

[Dax Shepard]

Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. That breathy one sounded very creepy. Am I right? We are supported by Nordic Naturals. I love that name. Let's just start with the name. Nordic Naturals.

[Monica Padman]

Great name. I also so love these products.

[Dax Shepard]

You're in love with them?

[Monica Padman]

Yes. I already went through an entire magnesium.

[Dax Shepard]

You did? You blasted?

[Monica Padman]

I blasted through. And a vitamin C. Well, did you.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Jessica]

So my backstory is a long, long time ago. I was married to a woman and we had two daughters using an anonymous sperm donor. I carried the first and she carried our youngest and we used a sperm bank randomly. Our gynecologist was like, I'm registered at this bank. So we picked a donor. We had sperm shipped overnight. It comes in, like, a giant helium tank on dry ice. You put on gloves and you lift out this little smoking half a chapstick cap of sperm.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Jessica]

We went through that entire process and had our first daughter. Alice. You have your first baby. You're over the moon. You're like, she's obviously perfect. Let's replicate her. So we used the same donor again and had our youngest daughter. And by the time Alice was 11, I was divorced and I was dating a man who, coincidentally, is also named Aaron. David, like, Aaron here.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

That seems impossible.

[Brooklyn]

When I learned this, I was like, oh, they just made a mix up at the Bureau of Boyfriends.

[Jessica]

And Alice at the time was really, really sick of hearing her grandma talk about, like, oh, we are from Kent. We're from Romania. We're from all these places. She knew. I never knew my father. She obviously knew. She grew up with two moments moms and an anonymous donor. And she was like, you know what? 75% of me is a mystery.

[Dax Shepard]

Why did you not know your dad?

[Jessica]

I just never did. It was the 70s. I had a single mom. It was not discussed in the Midwest. And you didn't go looking. Cause you're Midwestern, I guess.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a secret.

[Jessica]

But Alice is Gen Z and has no such qualms. She just wanted a map of her countries. Being 11, she wasn't at the place that Bryce and Maddie, as college students were. She wasn't like, who am I? Where do I come from? She was like, I know who I am. I'm 11. I'm cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

At the time, I'd never heard a DNA story of people finding adoptive parents. So she asks Grandma for this present for Christmas. Grandma is more than happy to provide. And six weeks later, we get the results, and I click the DNA relatives tab, and it's just father. 50% shared DNA. My reaction was the same as Erin's. You're like, what am I going to do about this now? Now he's probably getting a notification right now. The clock is ticking. I Googled. I did what anyone would do. I had no idea sperm banks had branches. So we had ordered from the D.C. area. So luckily, he went to Johns Hopkins, because I found a guy on LinkedIn, right age, the right degrees in the D.C. area. So I went to Facebook, and he had all of his school Pictures, K to 12. And I got chills. At that moment. It was no doubt in my mind. Here's my daughter with a 1960s Boy bowl haircut. I wrote him that confusing note and just said, hey, I'm the mom. I'm open to talking. Write me back if you want pics.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Jessica]

He wrote back. He'd already written a bio for Bryce and Maddie. So I read it to Alice and she wrote her own life story back to him, which was very short. But because she was 11, me and Aaron started texting. We just both found it fascinating. We formed this friend. Six months later that summer, because Bryce and Maddie are college age, we all decide that we're going to meet in Seattle. And he threw a huge party on the roof of his place and we all came. And I was cool with that. Especially with such a young daughter that there were two other siblings there. It was not going to be a big deal. But we all decided we were going to spend basically two weeks together. And Erin does this huge hippie fest in Eugene every summer. So we all pile in my car and we drive back down there and we go to this hippie festival. Instantly, Aaron and I were the parents in this scenario. We're throwing sandwiches to the back seat and do you have everything? Got to make sure everybody's happy.

[Brooklyn]

We're both playing parents and yet we are actually the biological parents of one of the kids.

[Jessica]

Eugene was where I was living at the time. He had been in a band in that area. He had commuted every weekend. We could have passed him and the girls in grocery stores. We had some one step removed, people in common. So weird how close our paths had always been to crossing. So during that trip, we took a walk one night just to be alone and talk and sort of have our first date. And it was like the wildest first date I've ever been on because we went to a cemetery by my house. Cause all the kids are back in the house.

[Dax Shepard]

You're on your first date, but you already have a child that's 11 years old. Right?

[Jessica]

And what happens on this first date is it's a good icebreaker. Spend most of it telling him what our in quotes daughters are like.

[Dax Shepard]

Can I ask quickly how your ex wife felt about you connecting with Erin?

[Jessica]

Ex wife was not in the picture at that point, but I can tell you for sure she would not have been supportive.

[Dax Shepard]

I got you. Okay.

[Jessica]

I'm a little bit more open about that. We went on this whole trip together. We kind of played family. So we came back to Seattle with him and we started dating and the rest is history. It kind of progressed from there, you know. I met and got together with my daughter's bio dad 12 years after she was born.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. So how long have you guys been together now?

[Jessica]

Since 2016. So, like, yeah, nine at this point. Alice is in college.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. So you ended up Erin, raising your daughter from 11 on.

[Brooklyn]

Only source of Alice should probably be here to speak for herself, but she has never considered me to be her father. Her other mom's her other parent, even if that parent hasn't been so great to her recently.

[Jessica]

I think Alice would double down on that and be like, that is why we cannot let her off the hook because gay family is family. She was just like, my mom's already out of the picture. And that really hurts. I'm not ready to pull someone else into that and risk that again.

[Dax Shepard]

And from what you've already told me about her personality, it's on brand.

[Jessica]

It's definitely on brand for her. And it felt a lot safer for me. I tried to Google this, and no one else on the Internet had been in this situation before. There was no answer to, how do I date my kid's dad?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

I tried to be a good mom about this, and it felt better because I knew that she wasn't just gonna, like, run into his arms and then it was gonna end and I was gonna be the worst mom on the planet.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense.

[Alice]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

What about the younger daughter?

[Jessica]

My youngest daughter would actually happen to estrange my wife in me. Is she withheld that daughter and abandoned Alice. So Alice hasn't seen her sibling in that amount of time either. Alice is completely adamant that this child is not her sibling just because it's Aaron. It's not like Maddie is now substitute sister or is as much sister. We've kind of come full circle. Like, love definitely makes a family, but biology also can make some sort of family too. And both are not the whole enchilada. And both are not nothing either.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's so true.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, this might surprise you that the most shocking part of this whole story to me is that they keep the sperm for so long. I would have thought I either had kids in that window of time I was jerking off at the place. I would not think there could be a 20 year span.

[Monica Padman]

Like, still.

[Jessica]

I actually found him because one of the vials they sent me had a date on it, you know, January 1994. And I was like, 94. I graduated high school in 94. It's 2004 when I'm trying to get pregnant. I was like, he already Had a master's by 94. Okay, here's his age. Let's start Googling. I did not expect that. That was ten year old sperm.

[Brooklyn]

They sold you expired sperm.

[Jessica]

I got expired sperm, man.

[Monica Padman]

Wow, what a story.

[Dax Shepard]

What a story.

[Brooklyn]

We are now aware of, I believe, 22 of my children.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, 22.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Jessica]

I have a spreadsheet.

[Brooklyn]

I've only met four.

[Dax Shepard]

Does it stress you out at all? No.

[Brooklyn]

Whenever I discover one, I write them an email and tell them a little bit about myself and say I'm open to connection. Though strangely, other than Bryce and Maddie and one other Emily who happens to live near us, I guess we had a zoom meeting with one family of three, but most of them just haven't been that interested.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, right.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow, this is a wild story.

[Monica Padman]

This really is. This is the most interesting meet cute I've ever heard.

[Jessica]

Absolutely.

[Brooklyn]

After my piece was published in the New York Times and Jess also had a piece published by the bb, we did get some movie interest.

[Monica Padman]

Uh huh. I could see that nothing ever came of it.

[Jessica]

I think the problem is there's not an obstacle in our story at all.

[Brooklyn]

They would have to invent that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, well, they're good at that.

[Monica Padman]

It's a creative license that's allowed.

[Dax Shepard]

We know how to do that. Well, you guys, this was delightful. What an interesting story. What's the name of the New York Times piece and the BBC piece in case people want to read it? I think that might interest people.

[Jessica]

No idea. But his New York Times, I mean, that's kind of how it got out. He wanted to write A Modern Love with his creative writing degree on it. So there's a Modern Love that's like Am I in a chromosomally arrayed relationship?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that's a clever title.

[Monica Padman]

I like that.

[Brooklyn]

That's not the title though. It is the Modern Love column. And the title is first I Met My Children, Then My Girlfriend. They're related.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that's tasty. Okay. I like your title though a lot, Jessica. I don't know if that was a first draft.

[Jessica]

That might be the subtitle.

[April]

I.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, wonderful meeting both of you. Thank you for telling us that story.

[Monica Padman]

We're doing it. This, this was fun to have both of you.

[Alice]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You laid it out beautifully.

[Jessica]

Thank you so much for having us.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, take care.

[Brooklyn]

Bye.

[Monica Padman]

Wow, meet cute a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess that sperm stays good for a goat. Sage, huh?

[Monica Padman]

But it worked out.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's great. Alice Taylor, can you hear us?

[Alice]

Yeah, I'm sick. So I'm sorry, my voice is all.

[Dax Shepard]

You'Re gonna have to get healthy before we can talk to you. You're gonna have to call us back.

[Alice]

I had some cold. I thought it went away. Now it's back.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

These colds, These are the new colds. They're for three months. That's just how the fucking colds are now. Okay, so you have a wild DNA store?

[Alice]

I do. I'm a twin. We are the babies of seven. About six, they divorced and my dad moved out with his friend, girl went to another state and kind of left my mom to raise all of us. And he made it really clear that he had left. When I was about 16, she was completely over me and my shit, and so she booted me out here to live with him. Just me. Left everybody back where they were.

[Monica Padman]

What about the twins?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And are you guys identical or fraternal?

[Alice]

It's a boy. So he stayed back. We were freshmen in high school, but I was a pain in the ass. I have a 17 year old right now and like, God bless her, I.

[Dax Shepard]

Know I'm caught between. So my brother was really, really challenging. And now that I think of his story and I write about it, I realized he really needed someone that had a lot, lot of capacity to help. I just feel bad for both people in the story. Like, I feel bad for my mom and I felt bad for my brother. So you probably needed a lot of help.

[Alice]

I am so blessed by my children that I'm like, how did you do it? And she's like, I sent you. So she sent me here and I was nice and sassy and I was like, you know what? Why'd you leave? Like, what's your problem? Was she worth it? And he's like, wasn't the only one. For all I know, you're some Jack guy's baby. Oh, I understood that. This Jack guy was like a colleague of my mom's. I'd heard the name, but I'm like, you're deflecting. You're just trying to take the attention off what you're doing. I was very much not here for it.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, Jack Guy sounds like a term, like a certain kind of guy.

[Monica Padman]

Like he works at Guy.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that would be great, but I was thinking more like he works at a mechanic shop. Like he's jacking up cars or like a jackpot.

[Alice]

Different industries for sure. But yeah, fair enough. He didn't harp on it. He never really had a lot of nasty things to say about my mom. He was always very kind. He's like, she loves you, but he was tired of being the only one taking the blame, and he kind of wanted to get his story out there, but then we didn't talk about it again.

[Dax Shepard]

And did you. Did he and the friend girl have any children?

[Alice]

No. That happened for about a year, and then after I had my third son, my mom mailed me my baby book. And the baby book had all these cards and crap in it, and in it there was a literal Western Union telegram, yellow with the tear on it and everything that said, congratulations on the twins. I'm so happy, Jack.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. This is curious. Yeah, yeah.

[Alice]

Get a little curious. I tried digging and I can't find anything, and I just move on. So a couple years later, me and my twin decided we were both going to try Ancestry and 23andMe. We wanted to prove that they were full of it. And everyone said the origins are off. We weren't really doing it for DNA purposes. We were just trying to play with it. And we were kind of right. His came up a little bit Irish, and mine came up a little Scottish, and then the rest of it was just Eastern European. Didn't think anything of it. 2022, I got back in this Jack fix, and I was like, I'm going to figure this out. So I started digging through 23andMe, which had matches that were like, fifth cousin, non fifth. So I was bored. So I was like, I'll log into my brother's ancestry because he would have different matches, and sure shit. I open up, it says, parent child match. My brother and Jack.

[Dax Shepard]

Hold on a second.

[Alice]

Why didn't yours say that Jack only did ancestry?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you did different ones.

[Dax Shepard]

They divided and conquered.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Alice]

I don't like to blow up my family over nothing. So I'm like, I'm gonna do my own ancestry because I had done 23 so that I can catch my breath.

[Dax Shepard]

You told your brother? Obviously, he already knew.

[Alice]

Not this point.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Alice]

We don't live in the same state anym, so I just let it be and I didn't know how to process, you know, that's a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

This is a fucking mess.

[Alice]

I do my own ironically. Father's Day is the day I get mine back. I open it up and there is no Jack to be found. And it says that me and my twin brother are half siblings.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow.

[Alice]

Yeah, it's called super feed on Cash. I don't know how to say it. No, it's very, very rare. There's like 10 cases in all of America.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa. Wow. So your mother was carrying two different people's child isn't that wild at literally.

[Monica Padman]

The exact same time.

[Alice]

What? I'm upset. Don't even know how to tell my brother that he's the only one of us seven that's not.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, do you know, though, the other Fives, have they done ancestry?

[Alice]

None of them have.

[Dax Shepard]

We don't know how much Jack was in or out of the picture.

[Alice]

My dad has got black hair and blue eyes, and my twin is the tallest out of Everybody. He's like 6 1. I'm 4'11 and he's blonder. And so is Jack after doing lots and lots of fun research. So then I decided to go crazy on my ancestry and connect some more dots and just try to make sense of it. And I couldn't. I couldn't connect any more dots. So they have these things called DNA angels. I don't know if you've ever heard of them, but, like, huge shout out to them. They do it for free. They'll log into your ancestry and they'll help you connect some dots from fifth cousins all the way down to like, maybe who your grandfather's father was. So I call on them. I'm like, help me. So she logs in, and about 10 hours later, she calls me and she's like, I'm really sorry, but you're not your dad's either.

[Monica Padman]

What?

[Dax Shepard]

Third guy plot twins.

[Monica Padman]

Stop it. Stop.

[Alice]

She's like, it's one of these three men. They're all brothers. They connect to a grandfather that my DNA connected to.

[Dax Shepard]

Mom was busy.

[Monica Padman]

She sure was.

[Alice]

So I just start at the top of the three men. He's the oldest out of all of them, closest to my mom's age. His name is James. And about two hours into researching, do I not land on a photo of Jack, James, my mom, all at a college conference the year of my birth. I mean, there's like 10 of them, but those three were in the middle. It's like my mom was in the middle, and Jack and James and I continued to find out Jack was the president of this company and they were the trustees.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, now hold on.

[Monica Padman]

Was it a threesome?

[Alice]

I asked that question a lot. I've done so much investigating. The only thing I don't know is do they take turns? Right.

[Dax Shepard]

One night and then the next night.

[Alice]

Did she, like, go down to the bar after?

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. Because it would have to be that fast.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a lot of permutations here.

[Monica Padman]

I think it was an orgy.

[Alice]

Even if she hired hyper ovulated, the studies show it has to be Within a couple days.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So have you discussed any of this with your mom?

[Alice]

No, I haven't confronted her.

[Dax Shepard]

You haven't?

[Alice]

I told my twin, which kind of like, ruined our relationship. No. So he called Jack because I'm sitting on it for months, and then he comes out here for our birthdays, and I'm like, so guess what? And he's like, mom got Eiffel Towered. And I was like, that's not funny.

[Monica Padman]

What's that mean?

[Dax Shepard]

What does that mean? She knows a lot of code words.

[Alice]

Just think about an Eiffel Tower.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, sure. Like a wobble. Wh. Sawhorse. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I don't get it. Oh, oh, oh, oh. I do. I do.

[Alice]

He calls this guy because I had this guy's phone number, mind you. Both these two men are married 50 years plus. So they were married to these women. And they still are. He calls them and he's like, hey, guess we parent child matched on ancestry. And Jack's like, your mom and I agreed we'd never have any contact with you. So bye.

[April]

Oh, my God.

[Alice]

So they knew.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, he's afraid.

[Jessica]

Sure.

[Alice]

And I'm not out here to hurt anybody, but he could have been like, here's a few medical things you might need to know exactly.

[Monica Padman]

Minimally. I'm sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Here's 5,000 bucks.

[Alice]

Jack had no kids.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe he thought he was sterile.

[Alice]

Well, he knew about us, though. He was.

[Dax Shepard]

And sent a telegram.

[Alice]

But he doesn't probably know that I'm James's. He probably thinks he has me and my brother out there.

[Dax Shepard]

He's like, okay, I don't need to talk to you, but is your sister gonna call? Cause I need to tell her I don't wanna talk to her either.

[Alice]

If my sister calls, it's gonna be a longer conversation. He's not my dad, so I can't say anything to him. And then I looked up mine, and he was once upon a time the Supreme Court justice of a Southern state. So I decided to leave that alone.

[Monica Padman]

Holy moly.

[Alice]

And he's got kids and grandkids, and I'm not ruining anyone's life. It doesn't change who I am.

[Monica Padman]

But are you, like, what am I?

[Alice]

So.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. What impact does this have? Because we've talked to some people today who have had this experience, and some of them are like, doesn't matter. It's cool to know. And that's still my parent, and I don't really care.

[Alice]

Yeah. I went to a conference on it. They're called npe. Non Parental Event or Non expected parent. And a lot of people are just crying like the mailman's my dad and my mom lied my whole life and it's my identity and I'm like, no, it's not. You are who you are. Your blood's blood. You know, I grew up with step siblings. My kids have had a stepdad. I don't identify with who was in the room that night. I identify with who I turned out to be and the people that cared to stay in my life. I have great relationships with people that are blood and that aren't. Yeah, I'm bummed and I can see why. My mom always had just this undercover. I'm not so sure about her. Get rid of her. She just didn't like me.

[Dax Shepard]

I can't imagine though that she assumed the twins were from two different men even though she had sex with two different people.

[Monica Padman]

No way.

[Alice]

That would just not only spoil her. Your dad left and cheated. Not only did he do that, but you double down, you know, and to tear down a woman or late 70s, it's just like what's the point? I told one of my sisters the other subs don't know and she's like, you've got a taller. And I'm like, no, I don't.

[Monica Padman]

I mean the only reason I think to tell her is like she is a medical marvel history, literally. I mean there probably is just 50 cases this has ever happened.

[Alice]

Yeah, I think that they said in just America there's 12 and then the other countries there's more. But you don't have of documentation on this. How many twins both do it? You just assume one's DNA is the others.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow, this is twisty and turny.

[Monica Padman]

Growing up though, did you think you and your twin had twin abilities?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, they did share a mom, right?

[Alice]

And like we shared a room and we shared a lot of time together and I always thought we had this special bond.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you left handed?

[Alice]

No, my little boy is though.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe he'll be president.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Over index. What a story.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a barn burner.

[Monica Padman]

Thank you so much for sharing it.

[Alice]

Yeah, you guys, it was super fun. I do need to give a shout out to one of my friends, Rebecca. She actually used your story Dax about dyslexia and she gives it to her students at the elementary school she teaches at and she loves, loves, loves you guys. She got me interested in you guys podcast.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you, Rebecca.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's lovely.

[Dax Shepard]

Shout. Shout out. Well, lovely meeting you.

[Monica Padman]

I'll be thinking about that one for a While. That one's gonna stick. Yep. Have a great day.

[Dax Shepard]

Take care. Feel better.

[Alice]

Thank you.

[April]

Bye.

[Monica Padman]

This one really got out.

[Dax Shepard]

I feel like we need to do this again.

[Monica Padman]

I'm sweating.

[Dax Shepard]

Four for four. They also grew in intensity.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

There was, like, a natural progression that felt.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

De V Francais. Fairly. Meouch.

[Monica Padman]

Are you gonna go look into your DNA?

[Dax Shepard]

I feel like now I'm not anyone's. Don't you? All those stories just make you feel.

[Monica Padman]

Like, oh, who are my everyone?

[Dax Shepard]

Who am I? Who's my mom? Are you my mom?

[Monica Padman]

He has a great mother or something.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you my mom? Are you my mom?

[Monica Padman]

I thought it was a turtle.

[Dax Shepard]

It could be mother, but it's mother.

[Alice]

Sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That's so fun. Formal.

[Monica Padman]

Sorry. And thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

No wonder people said no. They're like, you're stuck up my. Your mother. I'm your mom.

[Monica Padman]

Mother. If you didn't grow up with them, they're your mother.

[Dax Shepard]

The little bird asks a bulldozer if it's his mother. Are you my mother?

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a very sweet story.

[Monica Padman]

Sweet.

[Dax Shepard]

All right.

[Monica Padman]

Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Love you.

[Brooklyn]

Do you want to sing a tune or something?

[Jessica]

One of a theme song.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay, great. We don't have a theme song for this new show, so here I go. Go, go. We're gonna ask some random questions, and with the help of armchairs, we'll get some suggestions on the fly rhyme dish. On the fire rhyme dish. Enjoy. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.

[Aaron]

Have you ever gotten a message out of the blue? Maybe you ignore them or maybe you end up in conversation. Maybe they tell you about an amazing offer.

[Dax Shepard]

I can really show you how to make some money.

[Aaron]

And maybe that gets you into a lot of trouble. But this isn't a story about people like you, the people receiving these messages. This is a story about the people behind the messages on the other end of the line. Thousands of them, working in a microcity built for scammers. From one Wondery, the makers of doctor Death and Kill List, comes Scam Factory, a new series about survival at the expense of others. Follow Scam Factory on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Scam Factory early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.