Armchair Anonymous: Substitute Teacher

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard – Episode Summary: "Armchair Anonymous: Substitute Teacher"

Release Date: August 8, 2025

In this compelling episode of "Armchair Expert," host Dax Shepard delves into the intricate and often tumultuous world of substitute teaching through the heartfelt and harrowing stories shared by real individuals. Titled "Armchair Anonymous: Substitute Teacher," the episode explores the challenges, unexpected encounters, and profound impacts that substitute teachers can have on both students and educators.

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1. Natasha’s Struggle as a Substitute Teacher

The episode opens with Natasha, a 21-year-old substitute teacher, recounting a particularly chaotic day she experienced in 2012. Armed with enthusiasm but quickly overwhelmed by an unruly third-grade class, Natasha’s story highlights the unpredictable nature of substitute teaching.

• Chaos in the Classroom: Natasha describes a student who disruptively uses a stapler to create havoc—“he reaches behind himself and grabs the teacher's stapler…and starts stapling everything” (07:15).

• Intervention by Mr. Jones: As the situation spirals, Mr. Jones, the discipline administrator, intervenes effectively. Natasha reflects, “I realize I'm in over my head” (09:02), but Mr. Jones steps in to restore order, demonstrating the crucial role of experienced staff in managing classroom disruptions.

• Emotional Toll: Natasha concludes her story with the emotional aftermath, stating, “I was so thankful that that half day was over. I never subbed there on purpose again” (10:20), underscoring the psychological strain substitute teachers often endure.

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2. Marla’s Encounter with a Troubled Student

Marla Maples shares a deeply impactful narrative about her experience as a substitute teacher dealing with a student named Tyler, who struggled with severe behavioral issues.

• Initial Signs of Distress: Marla recounts Tyler’s alarming behavior, including self-harm and violent outbursts—“He just has the most mischievous look on his face…and he reaches behind himself and grabs the teacher’s stapler” (07:15).

• Long-Term Consequences: Ten years later, Marla encounters Tyler in a tanning salon, revealing the lingering effects of their past interaction. Tyler’s declaration, “I know you, you're Marla” (32:55), sends shockwaves through Marla, highlighting the lasting scars such incidents can leave on educators.

• Mental Health Advocacy: The conversation shifts to broader issues of mental health, with Marla emphasizing the need for adequate support systems—“I'm a big mental health advocate…I do just worry about people who are possibly gonna have their insurance taken away or Medicaid or Medicare” (37:52).

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3. Talon’s Story of an Inappropriate Substitute

Talon provides a disturbing account from his third-grade years in the early 1970s, detailing the inappropriate and sexualized behavior of a substitute teacher.

• Unsettling Traditions: Talon describes a substitute who, during her birthday celebration, instructed students to smack her buttocks as a form of participation—“she was going to walk along the aisle up to each student…and each student was to whack her on her butt” (45:58).

• Classroom Transformation: What begins as a strange tradition quickly escalates into a chaotic and inappropriate environment, leading to a loss of control and confusion among young students—“everyone started laughing and hollering and hooting. The ice was broken and it was a party” (47:11).

• Long-Term Impact: Reflecting on the experience years later, Talon grapples with the lingering effects and trauma, questioning whether to involve authorities—“It's likely this probably… Yeah, you're right” (35:02).

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4. Thematic Discussions: Impact of Substitute Teachers and Mental Health

Throughout the episode, Dax Shepard and co-host Monica Padman engage in profound discussions about the broader implications of these stories:

• Teacher Influence: They explore how substitute teachers can leave lasting impressions—both positive and negative—on students’ lives. Dax muses, “I never considered the notion that you can be very impactful as a teacher on somebody in a very interesting time” (37:12).

• Mental Health and Society: The conversation delves into the complexities of mental health, particularly concerning individuals who pose risks to themselves or others. Marla stresses the importance of accessible mental health care to prevent tragedies—“If they don't have that, what do they have?” (38:12).

• Ethical Dilemmas: The hosts grapple with the ethical challenges of balancing individual freedoms with public safety, highlighting the difficulty in creating policies that address extreme cases without infringing on personal liberties—“You can't really have laws that are only for this 0.01%. They have to apply to everyone” (39:08).

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5. Conclusion: Reflections and Call for Compassion

As the episode concludes, the hosts reflect on the stories shared, emphasizing the need for empathy and better support systems in education and mental health.

• Compassionate Understanding: Dax articulates a compassionate stance towards those who cause harm due to mental health struggles—“there’s gonna be some people who are dangerous and it’s not their fault. I feel bad and compassionate for them” (37:39).

• Need for Systemic Change: The discussions underscore the necessity for systemic changes to better support both educators and students, advocating for proactive measures to address behavioral and mental health issues in schools.

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Notable Quotes:

• Natasha on Classroom Chaos: “He just thinks it’s hilarious. The class is losing it a little bit” (07:43).

• Marla on Mental Health Advocacy: “I'm a big mental health advocate. I am on some meds myself as well, for certain things” (37:52).

• Talon on Classroom Trauma: “This is some real sociopathy” (31:48).

• Dax on Compassion: “We have to be more like the Swedes” (39:08).

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Key Takeaways:

• Unpredictability of Substitute Teaching: Substitute teachers often face unpredictable and challenging environments that can significantly impact their well-being and effectiveness.

• Long-Term Effects of Classroom Incidents: Traumatic experiences in the classroom can have lasting psychological effects on both teachers and students.

• Importance of Mental Health Support: Adequate mental health resources and support systems are crucial in preventing and mitigating harmful behaviors in educational settings.

• Ethical and Policy Challenges: Balancing individual freedoms with the need for public safety in cases of mental health crises presents complex ethical and policy challenges.

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This episode of "Armchair Expert" offers a poignant exploration of the human side of substitute teaching, highlighting the profound responsibilities and unforeseen challenges educators face. Through personal narratives and thoughtful discussions, Dax Shepard and his co-hosts shed light on the critical intersections of education, mental health, and societal responsibility.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondri in the Wondri app or on Apple podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Marla Maples. Who's Marla Maples? That was a person.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I don't know if that's her name. I don't think it's correct.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, this episode's about her, so I hope it's correct.

[Monica Padman]

This episode's about Marla Maples.

[Dax Shepard]

Where is she now?

[Monica Padman]

A girl from Naples, Shockingly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That is very confusing.

[Monica Padman]

That's confusing and convenient.

[Dax Shepard]

It is. No, today is substitute teachers, which we just want to give a, you know, an extra shout out. It's. This is one. This one's tricky because at the same time I recognize it's the hardest of the hard jobs. Yes, it's impossible to wrangle all those brats.

[Monica Padman]

It's hard enough to be a teacher.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, exactly.

[Monica Padman]

Where you establish trust, then you're trying.

[Dax Shepard]

To wrangle 35 nuts.

[Monica Padman]

But then you come in for a day and nobody likes you or trusts you.

[Dax Shepard]

Everyone knows it's time to with you and do whatever you want.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Now my own baggage is I certainly deserved it, but substitutes hated me. I think I had a lot of dust ups with substitutes.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I'm shocked by this information. I can't even believe it.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm the worst. Really. I'm in reflection. It's not great. Okay, please buckle the fuck up and stay tuned for substitute teachers. We are supported by the new movie from Searchlight, the Roses. All's Fair When Love is War. Starring Benedict Cumberbatch, Olivia Colman, Andy Samberg, Allison Janney Shuti gatwa and Kate McKinnon. This star studded, crowd pleasing comedy will resonate with anyone who's ever been in a relationship. So pretty much all of us, perfect couple Ivy and Theo Rose have it all. Successful careers, a loving marriage and great kids. But when Theo's career comes crashing down, just as Ivy's fame starts to skyrocket, a tinderbox of fierce competition and growing resentment ignites, threatening to destroy everything they've built. That is, if they don't destroy each other. First directed by Jay Roach of Meet the Parents and written by Tony McNamara of Poor Things, this film is this summer's must see comedy. I love Tony McNamara. Poor Things was like my favorite.

[Monica Padman]

I can't wait to see this.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And Jay Roach is a just a beast of a director. The roses from Searchlight pictures in theaters everywhere August 29th. We are supported by Squarespace. Whether you're just starting out or scaling your business, Squarespace gives you everything you need to create a professional website, grow your brand and get paid all in one place. Our website functions beautifully. So seamless, like a Swiss made timepiece. And it was all designed on Squarespace by Wabi Wob and it was easy. The cutting edge design tools on Squarespace are a game changer. With Blueprint AI, their AI enhanced website builder, you can create a fully custom site in just a few steps. It generates premium content and personalized design recommendations based on your brand and goals. Plus their intuitive drag and drop editor makes it easy to fine tune everything to your liking. But Squarespace isn't just about looks. Their integrated SEO tools help you get discovered faster online. Every Squarespace site is optimized with meta descriptions and auto generated sitemap and more. So you show up more often in search results and attract your ideal customers ready to claim your corner of the Internet. Go to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com and promo code DAX to get started today. Hard times come and go Good times take them slow My life I had a. Remember one thing you gotta know I'mma keep on shining.

[Natasha]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello, is this Natasha?

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Where are you, Natasha?

[Natasha]

I am in Indiana and I'm also underneath my son's loft bed right now.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wonderful. What part of Indiana?

[Natasha]

I'm in Bloomington.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know Bloomington.

[Monica Padman]

Thank God.

[Natasha]

That's where IU is.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, iu.

[Marla]

Oh yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And then you just did a signal. The signal for IU is the I.

[Natasha]

You.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you do too.

[Natasha]

You go.

[Monica Padman]

That's cute.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, now, Natasha, are you the victim of a substitute teacher or are you a substitute teacher victim?

[Natasha]

I'm a substitute teacher victim.

[Monica Padman]

Ugh. I'm so sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

This is a public service announcement. Really?

[Natasha]

So I'm going to take you guys back to 2012. I'm in college and my mom has been working at an elementary school for many years, even back to the point where I went to elementary school. So I know all of the teachers and the principal and everybody's like, you would be a great substitute teacher. We could probably fill your days without even having to go to a different school. And I was like, that sounds great.

[Monica Padman]

Easy.

[Natasha]

Because I know everyone. I get through most of the year and I am able to just sub at that school. But I did decide one day to take a half day job at another school. I thought that it would be okay. I had a cousin who worked there. I let her know, like, I'm gonna be in Mrs. Smith's class. And she didn't respond, but I was like, no big deal. So I get to school the next day and it's pretty chaotic in the morning.

[Dax Shepard]

What grade?

[Natasha]

It's third grade. Things are wild in an elementary school office in the morning because parents are calling in and they're trying to figure out like, what's going on. So the administrative assistant was just like, hey, why don't you head down to Mrs. Smith's room? And someone will be down to introduce themselves. And I'm like, okay, sounds good. So I get there and this gentleman comes in and he's like, hi, I'm Mr. Jones and I'm the discipline administrator. We didn't have a discipline administrator at the other school I'd been subbing at. And it was similarly sized and it had the same layout, all of these things. So I'm like a little bit of a red flag, but I'm gonna let it go. He's like, it's really nice to meet you. If you need anything today, feel free to give me a call. I'm happy to help. And my mom told me from the jump, do not call the principal to your classroom because if you do, they're gonna be like, she can't manage this whole thing. Oh yeah, shit. I was just like, I don't usually call, but it's really nice to meet you. So he leaves and then my cousin comes in and she's got like this giant Dr. Pepper and a chocolate donut. And she's like, hey, I got you a treat. And I was like, okay. And she's like, you're gonna need it. This is a wild class.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Monica Padman]

No, I was scared.

[Natasha]

Scared, but also a little annoyed because she's my older cousin. I've been subbing in, quote unquote, the worst class at this other school for a while.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. You felt it was condescending, a little bit patronizing.

[Natasha]

I was overly confident. So the kids come in and they're a little bit wild. That's normal. Because, you know, it's substitute teacher day and everybody's like, woo hoo, yeah, time to party. Yeah. And I see Mr. Jones walking in the hallway a little and he's kind of checking in. I'm like, okay, whatever. But I'M able to wrangle everybody to their desks. And I start calling Rol. And I see out of the corner of my eye, there's this kid. And he just has the most mischievous look on his face. And I'm like, he's about to do something ornery. But before I can even say anything, he reaches behind himself and grabs the teacher's stapler from her craft table, and he starts stapling everything. He's stapling his shirt sleeves. He staples his shirt to his pants. No, he staples his neighbor's shirt. He's stapling papers.

[Dax Shepard]

And.

[Natasha]

And I'm like, put the stapler down. I'm trying to diffuse the situation with words. He just thinks it's hilarious. The class is losing it a little bit.

[Dax Shepard]

How old are you at this moment?

[Natasha]

21.

[Monica Padman]

Also, what an interesting. I've never even thought about chaos by stapler.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, he had been eyeing that stapler the whole year, going, if my teacher calls in sick, even a single day, I'm gonna staple this whole fucking place up.

[Natasha]

This place is going to the ground. While I walked toward him to take the stapler, and he jumps onto the desk.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God.

[Natasha]

Do you guys know the Petey Pablo song? Raise up.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Natasha]

So he's like, north Carolina.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Come on and raise up. Take your shirt off. Twist around your head like a helicopter.

[Anne]

Okay.

[Natasha]

He rips the shirt that he just stapled to his pants, takes it off, and he's reenacting this whole thing, swinging.

[Monica Padman]

The shirt around his head like a helicopter, as they say.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it's very literal.

[Natasha]

Everybody's losing it in the classroom. It erupts. Some of them are scared they're gonna get in trouble. Obviously, that would have been me in school. I would be like, please, everybody sit down.

[Monica Padman]

Me too.

[Dax Shepard]

Be nice to Miss Natasha. She's having a hard time.

[Monica Padman]

I wouldn't have been like, everyone, sit down. I would have looked at you and been like, I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, right. I'm an adult, too.

[Monica Padman]

These idiot children.

[Dax Shepard]

I have to deal with them all day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll get to leave today. But I'll be stuck with them.

[Natasha]

Yeah. So I realize I'm in over my head. I'm walking toward him to try and help him get down from the desk. He's open to the stapler at this point, too, and is, like, stapling at me. So he jumps down and he starts moving desks and chairs, pushing them over. So there's like, an obstacle course for me. He's bobbing. I'm Weaving. I had three hours of substitute teacher training before we got started.

[Dax Shepard]

Three?

[Natasha]

Yeah. I'm like, I need to call Mr. Jones. But he's running towards the phone. Thankfully, the door opens, and Mr. Jones walks in. He's like, hey, I heard things were getting a little wild down here. And he just got the sentence out. And the kid starts running towards him. And I'm like, okay. And I realized immediately that he has had more than three hours of substitute teacher training because he knew exactly what to do. He, like, scooped him up.

[Monica Padman]

Probably not allowed to do that in 2025. Or maybe you are.

[Natasha]

I was not allowed to do that in 2012, but I think he was allowed to.

[Dax Shepard]

I guarantee if someone is a danger to themselves or others, yes, you can probably intervene.

[Natasha]

So he carries him out of the classroom. I'm able to get everybody else under control.

[Dax Shepard]

What if you just heard blood curdling, screaming when the door shut and smashing against lockers and fists on head?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Natasha]

I was so thankful that that half day was over. I never subbed there on purpose again.

[Anne]

On purpose?

[Monica Padman]

Does that mean you still had to?

[Natasha]

I did. So they shared music teachers, and I didn't know that. And I was subbing whole day for a music teacher, but she was half day at one school and half day at no. So I ended up there. I did not have to call Mr. Jones that day. No staplers were involved. And I went to the office, and the administrative coordinator when I was leaving was like, I heard you had a hard day. She was so sweet. She was like, I wish we had gift cards to give to people. Sometimes the days are hard, but then she panics, and she's like, you have a necklace on, but no earrings. Did you come here with earrings?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Natasha]

And I was like, no. And she was like, oh, okay. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my gosh.

[Monica Padman]

Wait.

[Dax Shepard]

She knew to scan for stolen jewelry. You weren't wearing a watch or anything when you came in. You still have your car keys and your wallet still in your pocket. Okay. Then you're good to leave.

[Monica Padman]

Also, to assume that just because you're wearing a necklace you must be wearing earrings is very funny. Very 2012 textbook.

[Dax Shepard]

20, 2012.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. And did you act like everything had gone perfectly to your cousin since she had condescended to you?

[Natasha]

No. I mean, she's there, too, all day, so obviously. Like, I'm sure it was the talk of the teacher's lounge at lunch. I got out of there. I was like, I'm not even.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that place sucks.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. When you drive away from a school that you've subbed at and you're leaving the parking lot and you know you're never coming back. Does it feel like leaving a boyfriend's house you've broken up with and you're just so happy to get out of.

[Monica Padman]

There or like something you've set on fire and you're just driving away from?

[Anne]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So that was 13 years ago. Are you currently a teacher?

[Natasha]

I am not a teacher. I'm a divorce mediator. So things get shitty too.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You could still benefit from that. Coordinator.

[Monica Padman]

Divorce lawyer is a great prompt.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. Crazy divorce. And maybe divorce lawyer. That's good.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I'll connect it.

[Dax Shepard]

You must have a million stories. Yeah.

[Natasha]

Sometimes when people come to me, they've got stuff figured out. But the court can also order people to go to mediation. That's when things get as crazy as swinging your shirt around.

[Dax Shepard]

Is it jaded? Your sense of romance?

[Natasha]

No. But I will say I actually went through a divorce that was mediated, so that's what drew me to the whole thing. But I. I feel like now maybe I would premediate before I got married again.

[Monica Padman]

Yay.

[Dax Shepard]

Smart. I've heard prenups pitched in a way that's interesting in that same regard, which is like, you have the opportunity to negotiate a settlement when you both like each other or when you both hate each other.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Talon]

What would you like to do?

[Dax Shepard]

And it's like, well, when you phrase it that way, that makes a lot more sense.

[Natasha]

That's the spin for sure. Right now. We love each other, and we don't want to hurt each other. So let's do it today.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's form all of our contracts now.

[Monica Padman]

That's very smart.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Natasha, this has been a delight. I'm sorry you had that experience, but also, I'm happy you had that experience.

[Monica Padman]

I kind of love the visual of.

[Dax Shepard]

Just someone stapling fucking everything and tossing chairs around and running. Little light jumping.

[Monica Padman]

Well, thanks for chatting with us.

[Natasha]

Thank you, guys. And also, I just have to tell you, I'm a day one armchairy. I heard Dax on Unqualified when you were talking about the podcast, so I've been listening since then. I also have to say that at our house, if Dax and Monica don't suggest it, I don't participate. So if anybody wants me to, like, watch a movie or listen to music or whatever, Whatever, I'm like, well, I don't know. We'll have to see if it's on the podcast coming up.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God, Your house hates us.

[Natasha]

So much, they're like, could we get a direct line to Dax and Monica.

[Monica Padman]

Because we want to go to the movies.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, then we've got great. Rex. Last night we watched what Lies Beneath, per Monica's suggestion, and guess what?

[Monica Padman]

It was great because we're on a lake and I wanted it to feel spooky, and it did.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, 25 years old, but it had some tens. There's a lot of jump outs.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, take care. Have a great rest of your summer.

[Monica Padman]

Thanks.

[Dax Shepard]

You too. Bye. Natasha. Hi. You look AI.

[Monica Padman]

You do. And you also look like Anne Hathaway.

[Dax Shepard]

You look like if they animated Anne Hathaway to be a Disney character.

[Anne]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

What fake name should we use anyone?

[Monica Padman]

Anne for Anne Hathaway. Or we could call you Hathaway.

[Anne]

I have to use a fake name because I'm still in school in the district. I think I'm your first teenage armchair. Oh, my gosh.

[Dax Shepard]

How? That's why you look AI, you're so useful. I'm looking for, like, flaws in your face, and there just aren't any of that.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God, I'm so glad you told us.

[Dax Shepard]

How old are you?

[Anne]

I'm 15.

[Dax Shepard]

15. Oh, my God. You're definitely our youngest caller.

[Monica Padman]

That's so sweet.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you old enough to know Anne Hathaway?

[Anne]

Yeah, I've actually gotten that once or twice before.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, okay, okay. You're hip to that. Okay, so, Anne, you have a substitute teacher story.

[Anne]

Yeah. So I'm going to set the stage a little bit. My elementary school was slightly chaotic in terms of faculty. So if you know the situation with the defense against the Dark Arts teacher in Harry Potter, it was kind of like that, but for Princip. So they were constantly changing. I was there for around two and a half years because of COVID and there were four or five principals.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa.

[Anne]

The principal that was there at the time of my story was there for only half a year because a different guy was there and he left. And she was using it as a stepping stone for a promotion. So this takes place when I was in third grade. So I was around nine, as well as my classmates. And my teacher was out. And obviously there was a sub. We'll call him Mr. S. Right away when I walk in, I get really weird vibes from this guy. He's pretty young. I was little, so everyone seems old, but I think he was right out of school or maybe taking classes, but in his early 20s probably. But he's immediately angry, glaring at everyone who walks in. And my class wasn't too terrible. For eight and nine year olds, we talked a little bit. I was always one of those kids who was really stuck up about the rules and never got in trouble and was silent.

[Dax Shepard]

Prefer to sit at the front of the class. Oh, yeah, Moni, did you sit at the front of the classroom?

[Monica Padman]

I think we had signed seats, but yeah, I would have.

[Dax Shepard]

I went straight to the back, last row, furthest corner. So interesting. I know, I know. Isn't it funny, these archetypes?

[Anne]

He's immediately snapping at kids if they're asking anything. He was even yelling at me and I know I wasn't doing anything wrong. So I was about to cry throughout the whole day because he's just screaming at kids. After a couple hours of this through math and writing and the blissful period where we leave for lunch and recess, we had rug time. It's where everyone would gather on the rug and the teacher would read us our book. And at the time we were reading the Wild Robot and we loved that book. So everyone was super good during that time. Everyone was silent. Made sure we were silent because we wanted to get through the book. So we all gather on the rug and Mr. S grabs the book, still glaring at every one of us. And he opens it and then yells at us to be quiet. And I remember this so clearly that not a single person was talking.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. He just screamed be quiet and no one was making a peep.

[Anne]

Or he would scream like, shut up.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Anne]

Very harsh.

[Dax Shepard]

Was he inordinately muscular? Because maybe he was like having roid rage. Oh, okay. He was angry about his slight build.

[Monica Padman]

Incel.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. We have to label him either a meathead, an incel.

[Anne]

He's just looking back, maybe slight incel vibes.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Anne]

Anyway, so he reads the first line of the chapter and at the same time a girl in the back of the rug whispers one word to the girl next to her, and Mr. S immediately slams the book closed and starts freaking out on us. He begins screaming and cursing us out.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Anne]

Most of the words our nine year old selves did not know.

[Dax Shepard]

How far did he go? Did he drop any F bombs?

[Anne]

Oh, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God. And did he say like the C word?

[Anne]

I definitely wouldn't remember that.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Anne]

Because I wouldn't have known it. These words I've heard like, oh, yeah, okay.

[Monica Padman]

God, this guy's unhinged.

[Anne]

He was crazy. Half the class begins crying and he starts screaming at us, stop crying, you're being babies. Stop crying, you're being loud and annoying.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, he's lost control of himself and now the classroom.

[Anne]

Then he suddenly goes around to all the windows and shuts all the blinds, shuts off the lights, closes the door, shuts, like, the little window in the door and makes us sit silently in the dark for what felt like hours. But I think looking back was like 30 to 40 minutes, which is still really long for little kids.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That's an eternity.

[Monica Padman]

Very sick.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He's having a mental collapse.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, do you think he was like, I need 40 minutes of darkness to regulate?

[Monica Padman]

No. I don't think he's smart enough to know he needs to regulate.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Anne]

He threatens us if you talk. You're ruining the principal.

[Monica Padman]

I'd be like, get me to the principal.

[Anne]

But principal was end of the world if you're going there for getting in trouble for us. They were like, we don't want to go to the principal.

[G]

Hi, I'm Monica Lewinsky. Welcome to reclaiming. I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours. Something you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately you triumph in finding it again. Miley Cyrus, welcome to reclaiming.

[Monica Padman]

My 2013 is your 1998. I lost everything during that time in my personal life because of the choices I was making professionally.

[G]

Chelsea Handler, welcome to reclaiming.

[Monica Padman]

I did have a teacher who instilled in me that I was gonna do something special, and she was like, you're gonna have an impact.

[G]

Sophia Bush, welcome to reclaiming.

[Dax Shepard]

You went all the way. You committed, and if it wasn't for.

[Natasha]

You, you have the courage to tell the truth and get out.

[Dax Shepard]

And I had to say that to.

[Monica Padman]

Women in my life, and I had.

[Dax Shepard]

To learn how to say it in the mirror to myself.

[G]

This last decade, for me, has really been what I consider my own reclaiming, my own journey. My own reclaiming story is in the bones of this show. Please listen to Reclaiming on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[H]

How hard is it to kill a planet? Maybe all it takes is a little drilling, some mining, and a whole lot of carbon pumped into the atmosphere. When you see what's left, it starts to look like a crime scene.

[Dax Shepard]

Are we really safe?

[Natasha]

Is our water safe?

[Monica Padman]

You destroyed our tap.

[H]

And crimes like that, they don't just happen.

[Marla]

We call things accidents. There is no accident.

[Monica Padman]

This was 100% preventable.

[H]

They're the result of choices by people. Ruthless oil tycoons, corrupt politicians, even organized crime. These are the stories we need to be telling about our changing planet. Stories of scams, murders, and coverups that are about us and the things we're doing to either protect the earth or destroy it. Follow Lawless Planet on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes of Lawless Planet early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[I]

It's your man, Nick Cannon and I'm here to bring you my new podcast, Nick Cannon at Night. I've heard y' all been needing some advice in the love department, so who better to help than yours truly? Nah, I'm serious. Every week I'm bringing out some of my celebrity friends and the best experts in the business to answer your most intimate relationship questions. Having problems with your man? We got you catching feelings for your sneaky link. Let's make sure it's the real deal first. Ready to bring toys into the bedroom? Let's talk about it. Consider this a non judgment zone to ask your questions when it comes to sex in modern day. In relationships, friendships, situationships and everything in between, it's gonna be sexy, freaky, messy, and you know what? You'll just have to watch the show. So don't be shy, join the conversation and head over to YouTube to watch Nick Cannon at night or subscribe on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. Wanna watch episodes early and ad free? Join Wondery right now.

[Anne]

Once he thought we had been punished enough, he turns all the lights back on and we begin social studies. But it wasn't like the history social studies. It was this book. And on lessons on being nice and empathy, which he could have taken some advice.

[Dax Shepard]

That's an ironic twist of content.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe he was trying to teach irony.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that could have been. The whole day was mapped out. He's like, I know. I got this book at 2pm I'm reading about forgiveness and empathy.

[Anne]

There was questions in the book and it had a little to do with history and stuff, but not really. And I so vividly remember this book because it had like creepy looking cartoon animals on it and no one had seen it before. So everyone was really confused. And so we're all asking questions and he's getting really mad at us, asking questions, saying, you should know this. Your teacher left this for you, so you should know how to do it. This is okay that you don't know this. So my friend Luca, he was really confused so he asked some questions about it. Pretty standard questions, like, oh, I don't know how to do this and was getting yelled at in response, of course. So at the third question. Mr. S hits his breaking point. He screams at him, saying, you can't just ask stupid fucking questions.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Anne]

Storms over to him. So, Luca, fun fact about him. He had a broken arm from a skiing accident.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no.

[Dax Shepard]

So he's got a cast on.

[Anne]

Yeah. Mr. S grabs him by the broken arm and drags him out of the classroom.

[Monica Padman]

Stop it.

[Anne]

And takes him to a storage closet and throws him in there.

[Monica Padman]

This is so crazy.

[Anne]

Is that you're not allowed to leave this room until you finish this spelling test.

[Dax Shepard]

Is this guy not considering this is his last day of work, or does he know that? Could he be behaving this way in. That's not gonna get back to anybody.

[Monica Padman]

He, I think, is mentally very unfair.

[Anne]

The weird thing about that is I think it was his first day, because you start to know the subs. My school is pretty small, and this wasn't one of the regular ones.

[Dax Shepard]

Sounds like they pulled a guy out of the back of a cab.

[Monica Padman]

The back of a police car.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that too. Paddy wagon.

[Anne]

Meanwhile, we're still in the classroom. Half the kids are sobbing. I was on that half. And the other half are conspiring to, like, leave the classroom and go get help, find a teacher and stuff. Because Mr. S wasn't letting us go to the bathroom. He wouldn't let us leave or anything. To go. Be like, hey, we got a crazy sub. So two kids decide to be the ones to risk it and bolts to the principal's office to report it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Good.

[Monica Padman]

Good for them.

[Dax Shepard]

Heroes. They probably have ADHD.

[Anne]

Mr. S comes back to the classroom, and we finish out the day. Luca, obviously, is like, I'm not gonna sit in this closet. Also goes to the principal's office and be like. Like, this guy just took me into a closet.

[Dax Shepard]

Great.

[Anne]

So the craziest part about all of this is that the entire incident was blamed on the kids. The next day, the teacher sat us down with the principal and said, look, what he did was unexcusable. But this is all your fault. You shouldn't have been terrible kids. You pushed him to it. You were talking, and that's why he was yelling at you, pinning it completely on us. This was probably the first time where I was like, adults are wrong.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. This is a huge moment.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Your worldview shifts a little bit. Oh, they don't know everything. But let me ask you a quick question. Was any of the classmates standing on their desk with their shirt off and a stapler in their hand and waving their shirt over that because what if this was the same third grade class that our previous caller warned us about? And maybe she's full of shit.

[Monica Padman]

No, she's not. Don't say the S word in front of me.

[Dax Shepard]

That class was completely unhinged and this guy had an appropriate reaction.

[Monica Padman]

You know what? It's still not an appropriate.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not inappropriate. You're absolutely right. No, but our previous caller had a kid on the desk with his shirt.

[Monica Padman]

Off, stapling everything in sight.

[Anne]

Oh, gosh.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you ever see this guy return?

[Anne]

So he did get fired.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Anne]

But no email went out to parents. Only Luka's parents got an email about this because they were called in. The parents only heard it from the kids. They had no idea from administration. And the reason I talked about the principal at the beginning is because I believe she didn't want it pinned on her for a bad hire because she was trying to get the promotion.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, boy, that makes sense.

[Dax Shepard]

A little cover up.

[Monica Padman]

Ooh. There's so many dynamics in a workplace.

[Dax Shepard]

One dynamic that just hit me, Monica, was because you're so clearly not nine years old. This story does feel like a long time ago, but this is only six years ago.

[Monica Padman]

I had the exact thought you were doing the math. I can't believe this was so recent.

[Dax Shepard]

It sounds like a story from the 80s.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Anne]

None of us had like, phones or anything, so we couldn't do anything about it.

[Monica Padman]

Can you imagine your kid coming home and being like, so we had a sub and they turned off the lights and blocked the door, said fuck about.

[Dax Shepard]

A dozen times, called a few of us bitches.

[Monica Padman]

You'd find his address and kill him.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, that would not be good.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, that's truly traumatic.

[Dax Shepard]

Held hostage.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that is wild. I'm sorry that happened.

[Dax Shepard]

It's the right amount of trauma, though. I'll say. It's good to be in, like, a trial situation where it's like, you're uncomfortable, it's going on, you feel trapped, you regret how you behaved a little bit. You have a different game plan for when the stakes are higher. It's not bad. I don't want it for anyone, but.

[Monica Padman]

It'S a little like waterboardy psychological games, like throwing him in the storage closet and giving him a spelling test. And he's nine. Like, this is wild.

[Anne]

I'm still friends with him. It's like his favorite story to tell people is the crazy sub threw me in the closet. Yeah, I listen to you guys literally all the time. High school's high school, so lots of anxiety and all the craziness. So your podcast really helps me calm down. And people are listening to music and I'm like, I'm listening to Dax and Monica.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you are so special.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, please convert your entire high school.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we'd love to convert a new young base.

[Anne]

Okay, great.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, take care. Have a great rest of your summer.

[Anne]

You too.

[Monica Padman]

That was so sweet.

[Dax Shepard]

It was really sweet.

[Monica Padman]

I can't believe we have a 15 year old who is independent enough to be like, I'm writing in.

[Dax Shepard]

I only believe it because of going to Lincoln school that time and standing in line for a hamburger. And I was talking a lot with the hamburger chef, and this 13 year old girl turned and looked at me and she goes, hey, wait, do you have a show called Armchair Anonymous? I never heard my name. And I was like, this is awesome. Yeah, she didn't know anything and she's listening to the show.

[Monica Padman]

It's hard at that age to be like, I'm writing into a show and I'm gonna go talk. That's very, very cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, I agree.

[Monica Padman]

I bet she's gonna work at Vogue. And first she's gonna go work at Vogue and, like, have drabby clothes.

[Dax Shepard]

You're hung up on the Anne Hathaway fake name, I think. And then she's gonna date Jaegers.

[Monica Padman]

No, Anne hathaway never dated Jagers in.

[Dax Shepard]

The crazy drug movie. Like the pharmaceutical sales reps. Oh, my God.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's right. I forgot about that.

[Dax Shepard]

She had a little stint with Jaegers. Our guest left. That was here.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, fuck. Oh, she's back. She wants to go by Marla.

[Monica Padman]

Are you lying?

[Anne]

No.

[Monica Padman]

You're not lying.

[Dax Shepard]

Not lying.

[Monica Padman]

Marla Maples.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. That's weird.

[Monica Padman]

That's so weird.

[Dax Shepard]

I saw it. I must have saw it. I was holding the piece of paper. I bet that's where I got it.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know, Dax.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Hello.

[Dax Shepard]

Is this quote. Marla?

[Marla]

This is Marla.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so this is a fake name and you have selected it. Please tell me more.

[Marla]

I chose it because it's a reference from one of my favorite movies. And you might find out later because another character in the story also has the name that's connected to it.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. It's kind of a riddle too.

[Monica Padman]

I love a riddle.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's a story and a riddle. This is two for one. I love it.

[Marla]

There's a lot of two for ones, actually. This story has to do with two prompts combined. Student teaching and stalker.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. Great.

[Monica Padman]

Amazing. Let's hear it.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, let's hear it. Marlo.

[Marla]

This happened about 20 years ago. I graduated mid year from college. I had to get a student teaching job before I could get my next job. And so the first day ever student teaching, they sent me to a middle school. Behavior disorder, emotionally disturbed classroom. And now they call them like social emotional therapy classrooms.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa.

[Marla]

So this is like jump in headfirst kind of thing. I asked a kid in the class if he wanted to play a game, and he just stares me in the eyes and he stabs a pencil right through his hand and is like just looking at me and he's bleeding and doesn't say a word.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

He stabs himself immediately in the hand while staring at you in the eye.

[Marla]

Because I asked him to play a game.

[Monica Padman]

He was like, this is my idea of a game.

[Dax Shepard]

A game killed my dad and now it's gonna kill my hand.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Marla]

I am kind of stunned and don't know what to do. But that emotionless stare with his head down, doesn't say a word. He does that this whole entire time that I'm there. And so I obviously handled this situation pretty good because they asked me to come back for a month in that classroom.

[Monica Padman]

Stop it.

[Dax Shepard]

So really quick. When the kid stabs himself with the pencil, I presume you call down to the principal's office or you walk him down. What happened?

[Monica Padman]

The first aide, the nurse.

[Marla]

I took him down to the nurse and we had put something on him as we walked down. And then they took care of it. They kind of seemed like he does this stuff.

[Monica Padman]

Upsetting.

[Marla]

Then I'm back in the classroom for a month. During that month, I find out that that pencil stabbing kid, I'm gonna call him Tyler. So my name is Marla. His name's Tyler. Have you guys figured it out yet?

[Monica Padman]

Marla and Tyler? No, it's not Marley and me.

[Dax Shepard]

Is it Fight club?

[Marla]

He had disassociative identity disorder.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. Rob. Got it.

[Marla]

So I find out that school year that Tyler has at home burnt his mattress and almost burnt his house down. And this is the kicker. He killed the neighbor's dog that year.

[Monica Padman]

This is some real sociopathy.

[Marla]

Yeah, disassociative identity disorder along with other mental illnesses. He and I actually made a pretty quick connection. Even though he really didn't talk to me very much, he kind of just gave me that look all the time, that same look. We didn't really have any other problems that year with that kid. Eventually it ends up at the end of that month I leave the classroom, I move on with my regular life and teaching. But I do hear about him throughout the years. And when he was 17, he stabbed his dad four times. He did not kill his dad, but that did get him sent to a mental health juvenile detention facility out east. So I thought at that point everything was over. He's out east. I won't hear much more. Well, 10 years later, I'm in a tanning salon, because that was the rage back then and I know better now.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, sure, sure. And he's now 27, 10 years from.

[Marla]

When I was in his class. So he's now 20, 21, 22, somewhere around.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great.

[Marla]

So 10 years later, I'm in a tanning salon. I walk out of the tanning room and I literally smack right into a younger 20 year old ish guy. And I say, sorry. And he's just staring at me blankly.

[Monica Padman]

Out of the top of his eyes. No. Ew. Oh my God, this is a horror movie.

[Marla]

And he says, I know you, you're Marla. And he says it like three times. I know you, Marla, you're Marla. And he kind of like just stares at me and doesn't say anything else. My gut sinks because obviously I immediately know who this person is, because I cannot forget that stare. I'm starting to get nervous and I think the person that was working there could tell that I was nervous and uncomfortable. So she says, sir, do you need a tanning booth? Because I thought you knew this young lady. Which I loved her calling me young lady. Cause I was not at that time. She's like, like, I thought you knew this young lady. You've been waiting outside her tanning room for 15 minutes. So then I'm starting to go, okay, did he follow me here? Did he just see me walk in? How does he know? And the part that really bothered me was how did he know my first name? Cuz teachers go by their last name. And then I don't really remember much after that because my mind was kind of racing through all those questions. I just hop in my car really quick, lock the doors, call my mom, I do get home safe. But I'm obviously rattled. What was that encounter? Because I could tell he was not mentally right in that state. Otherwise I'm all about saying hi and talking to my former students. So basically I thought getting home, being rattled was the end of my story. But I did some research and apparently he is back in our hometown, which I still live in. And it was posted on social media that he is window peeping and stalking people and that he is off his meds. And please don't give him any alco.

[Monica Padman]

Off his meds. This is not good.

[Marla]

There's a chance that my story isn't over. I hope it is.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God, Marla, I don't like this story at all. Can you tell the police now?

[Marla]

It's 10 years past that time now. It's been 20 years almost, and I haven't seen him again. And I don't even know if that was just he remembered me then, you know, I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

But we don't even know how he found you.

[Dax Shepard]

I hate to be morbid, but do you think you just gotta tell them, like, hey, this happened in the event something happens to me, right?

[Monica Padman]

It's likely this probably.

[Dax Shepard]

I think that's not a terrible idea.

[Monica Padman]

And then maybe they'll put troll more around you or something.

[Dax Shepard]

As we've interviewed a lot of stalker victims, the more incidents that have been documented, the better off you are. You do this once, like, hey, this is nothing. But I do want there to be some paper trail of this. And then you see him again at the grocery store and he says something a little bit weirder. You go in and you go, hey, does another thing happen? I would imagine. Hopefully you're getting to a point where you could probably get a restraining order.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Did feel a little nervous. The more things that are documented, probably the better.

[Marla]

I was just like, oh, it's just one little incident. But you're right, like it could be one little incident leads to another little incident.

[Monica Padman]

A huge incident. And I mean, his history is probably enough.

[J]

The town of AGDA in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex. But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn. The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption. His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant. Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.

[Dax Shepard]

I am the Archangel Michael.

[J]

The whole town has been thrown into.

[Dax Shepard]

Chaos as the mayor. Mayor is unable to carry out his duties.

[Talon]

I would like to address you all.

[Dax Shepard]

Legal proceedings have been initiated.

[J]

Join me, Anna Richardson and journalist Leo Chic for the mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption and magic Binge. All episodes of the mystic and the Mayor exclusively and ad free right now on Wonder Plus. Start your free trial in Apple podcasts, Spotify or the Wondery.

[Monica Padman]

Yep.

[Dax Shepard]

It brings up some a lot of new thoughts for me. One is I guess I never considered the notion that you can be very impactful as a teacher on somebody in a very interesting time. It can be more impactful for them in a way that you maybe not be aware of. That's an interesting part.

[Monica Padman]

In good ways.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, in great ways. And then probably. Oh, no, in equal measure on the other side of it. And then the next thing I was thinking is just, it is so rough that there's 7 billion of us and there's gonna be some people who are dangerous and it's not their fault. I'm not angry at them. I feel bad and compassionate for them. And also, what do we do? There's so many stories, like all the signs were there for a very long time. I don't know what we can do about that.

[Monica Padman]

We gotta figure out something.

[Dax Shepard]

Or is it just the reality of life on planet Earth?

[Monica Padman]

No, I don't think it can be a reality that it's clear he's gonna. Gonna kill someone and we're just like, I guess he's gonna kill someone. We should be able to have a plan in place.

[Marla]

That's what I'm nervous about too. You know, I'm a big mental health advocate. I am on some meds myself as well, for certain things. And I'm very much about going to therapy and about getting the help that you need. And I do just worry about people who are possibly gonna have their insurance taken away or Medicaid or Medicare. If they don't have that, what do they have?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Marla]

That is their path, is to harm somebody. And I would never want to see that with a former student or anybody else. The whole situation is really sad that he's off his meds and he's not getting the help, and he deserves that help.

[Dax Shepard]

And if he did harm someone, he would find himself in a situation where he could get therapy. You're right. That's the irony of it.

[Monica Padman]

Do you think there's, like, a way potentially for some people at that high risk of causing harm that it's illegal for him to be off his medication? Can that start happening?

[Dax Shepard]

This is why all these. These philosophical conversations are hard and important, which is you're trying to preserve the Liberty of the 99.99% of people who aren't a threat to anyone. And you can't really have laws that are only for this 0.01%. They have to apply to everyone. So you're in this very tricky situation where you either have to open up the door to take away a ton of people's Liberty who do not deserve. Like, saying that the government can tell you what medication you have to take. That's a crazy road to enter onto, I think.

[Anne]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And then you gotta have a category that's so specific that will allow the government to tell you what you to put in your body, which no one would want. It's just very hard. So then I go, I think at the end of the day, we all have to be more like the Swedes. Right. That are like, yes, shit gets stolen. That's how life works. It's almost like that's how life is. There's so many of us, and we can't really throw people in jail before they've done something.

[Monica Padman]

Not in jail. I guess that's my whole point, is like, we're not throwing him in jail. We're saying, okay, so there are real things that could help mitigate this danger. Let's put those into place.

[Dax Shepard]

You have Jeffrey Dahmers. Like, there are people that. There's no medication or therapy that's going to help. They need to be in prison, away from everyone. Of course, it's just a catch 22. You have to wait for them to give you that reason, which no one would want to do. But at the same time, you would lose so much if you could do it the other way. That's tricky.

[Marla]

There's no answer to it necessarily.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, that was. My point is that sometimes there's problems there's not a good answer for. This is kind of one of them.

[Monica Padman]

Question.

[Marla]

Thank you guys for letting me on here.

[Natasha]

Oh, thank you.

[Marla]

But I do want to say this. I was a lot excited to be on here and a little nervous, so I asked AI for pointers, and it was so cute. It said, don't worry. Dax and Monica are some of the easiest and friendliest people to talk to, and their producers and editors are top notch. So they'll make you sound great.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. Is Monica running your AI? Because it sounds like one of us wrote that.

[Monica Padman]

I flattered and it's creepy.

[Marla]

One of my mental health is adhd, so I was super nervous and I'm on medication for it. And I was like, I can't tell a story start to finish. But you guys made it easy.

[Dax Shepard]

It was great.

[Monica Padman]

It was a great story.

[Dax Shepard]

You'll appreciate this, Marla. I just made an ADHD joke in the previous interview, which is a substitute was berating the kids, and he was swearing at them and yelling. And then he left the classroom for a while, and then they were only third grade, and then two of the kids decided they were going to be the ones that escaped in the hallway and went and told the principal and I said, two kids with adhd, for sure. I'm like, heroes. We need every variety for when you're in a situation.

[Monica Padman]

Definitely.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, well, thanks for chatting.

[Marla]

Have a good rest of your day.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, you too. Take care.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that story was scary. That was like, what lies beneath? Kind of.

[Dax Shepard]

Isn't that an alligator or a shark?

[Monica Padman]

No affair and ghosts and pop outs, obviously. Hello.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello, sir. How do I pronounce your fake name? Talon or Talon?

[Talon]

Talon.

[Dax Shepard]

Talon, like a hawk's talon.

[Talon]

It's actually T, A, L, Y, N. It refers to a sentient ship from the series Farscape.

[Dax Shepard]

So it was a ship that could think and had consciousness and was actually.

[Talon]

Born to a female ship.

[Monica Padman]

Wow. I love this. Very specific.

[Dax Shepard]

And did the ship have character flaws and wisdom? And was it like a multifaceted type of consciousness?

[Talon]

It was a tormented ship because it was genetically modified. The original female was a ship that was meant to bring peace. What they did is they mutated the quote unquote fetus to be a warship.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Talon]

And so it was tormented because part of it was. It had a big cannon and it was supposed to go and destroy things, but part of it was peaceful. So it was like a real character.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Fighting its nature. Yeah. Love it. So, Taelan, where are you?

[Talon]

I want to be semi anonymous. I'm in western Connecticut.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, great.

[Dax Shepard]

That's plenty. I just like to know the region. You know, I like to find purchase and some stereotypes before we continue. Okay, so you have a substitute teacher story.

[Talon]

I do. And this story actually takes place in El Paso, Texas. I was in grade school there. This is a long time ago in the early 70s. And this is an important part of the story because things used to be different.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Tell people how it worked back then. I have some taste of it in the early 80s, but hit us with how it worked.

[Talon]

The first thing that was interesting is the part of El Paso I lived at was the northeast side, which was next to the Fort Bliss, which is the fort where they would train people around desert warfare. There were a lot of soldiers that lived in northeast El Paso. So kind of it's a little bit of a rougher type of culture.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. You could get in a fight at the bar pretty easily. Guys coming through the window every now and then.

[Talon]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's three pieces of context I want to give around this school to really set the stage. I think these first Two are kind of pretty much banned in schools these days. But in the grade school, teachers had paddles that they would use for discipline. I don't know if you ever had that taste of that, but they had paddles and public spankings. In retrospect, it wasn't to bruise you or to cause damage to you. It was more to humiliate you in front of your peers.

[Dax Shepard]

It's giving the administrator of that punishment a lot of faith that they're going to stay on the right side of that and just go for humiliation and not also then hurt. You're really entrusting that person a lot. Yeah. To make some judgment calls.

[Talon]

It's funny. The coaches would have the paddles that were supposed to be stronger. They'd have holes in them. So they would pretend to hit a little harder just to increase the humiliation. So that's the first thing. The second thing is that there was a related tradition which was on your birthday, the teacher could paddle you gently. The number of years. It wasn't mandatory, but the thrill seekers would be the ones who'd volunteered because they wanted to be up there and get all the attention. And so in our school, the third thing was they wanted kids to behave. They could be kind of rowdy. And so what they did is they had a list of substitutes that they would pick from, usually their favorites. And that would be the ones you would always see substitute. So on this day, I was in third grade and a substitute was needed, and they picked a substitute that no one recognized. It's just somebody kind of out of the blue. She looked like she was maybe in her 50s.

[Monica Padman]

She was probably 25, because you were in third grade and everyone seemed 50.

[Talon]

You're probably exactly right. She was wearing these polyester pants that were really form fitting, I would say kind of the equivalent of like leggings these days. And it was a little bit more common back in the day, so it wasn't out of sorts. But most teachers didn't wear those. And she had a quiet demeanor as well. So she gave us assignments. And I presume they're the original teacher. And we were kind of going through them and people were behaving well. But at some point during the day, just to get our attention back up, she started telling us that it was her birthday. And she said that she had heard about this birthday tradition that I talked about.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. Really quick. We gave Talon so much shit about her age. And he might actually know. She might have asked for 50 wax.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you're right.

[Dax Shepard]

But Also then maybe she was really 35 and wanted lots of wax. But anyways, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Talon]

Well, she thought it would be good to follow the tradition. And so she said that the room didn't have a paddle, which in retrospect, I don't know if that was true or not. And that she also didn't want to go out and find one because she didn't want to leave us alone. We're third graders. We were like 25 kids in the room. And so she said she was too old to get the number of wax, but she did want the whole class to participate. So she said what she was going to do was she's going to walk along the aisle up to each student and then turned around and that each student was to whack her on her butt.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

With her bare hand. Smack her ass in tight polyester.

[Talon]

She also said that since there was no paddle, a paddle would have been harder, that it was okay for the student to hit her as hard as they wanted to.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no, she's kind of a pedophile. We're laughing.

[Dax Shepard]

I know. Isn't it crazy? I was immediately thinking like, man, when it's a man and a woman, woman, it's just a completely different scenario in my head. If it's a man doing this, I'm like, we need the cops in there right now and get them out of there. And then this. I'm like, this scale's a little off course. She's off course. Yeah.

[Talon]

I mean, we're third graders, right. So we're generally not really understanding. There's no world wide web. So any kind of stuff you heard about sexual things you heard from your older siblings or cousins or something like that. This activity that was about to happen wasn't anything that was really discussed.

[Dax Shepard]

Dust. Right. It probably sounded fun, actually.

[Talon]

All the kids are like, we get to do this to our substitute now. And in fact, the thrill seeker students, they were looking like they were going to have a great time.

[Dax Shepard]

Knock her to the ground. Yeah.

[Talon]

As promised, she started walking down. She turned around and students would whack her. She had large butt cheeks, so it.

[Dax Shepard]

Was really easy to, like, find your target.

[Talon]

The first students were a little bit shy, but they still did it because they were being told to do it by the teacher. Things changed when she got to the first of the thrill seeking students.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, fuck.

[Talon]

This student was one of the most athletic in our group. We stood up and the best way I can describe it was it was like he was up in the pitcher's mount. And he started winding his arm up and he put his foot forward and he just ripped out like a big whap. And it was so loud.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Talon]

And everyone started laughing and hollering and hooting. The ice was broken and it was a party.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

What was her reaction to that? Did she let out any kind of a moan or anything?

[Talon]

I thought she was going to be angry because it was such a big whack and everything. Or at the very least, she was going to tell people, just take it a little bit easy. But instead she let out like, a little cooing noise.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. She is.

[Dax Shepard]

This is one of the kinkiest, weirdest stories I've ever heard.

[Talon]

You could see the energy and the thrill seekers. All of a sudden they're looking at each other and they're mumbling to each other. And you knew they wanted to outdo. The var was that high. If someone walked by, they could have seen what was going on. But she went through everybody.

[Dax Shepard]

Did she yell at anyone for being too soft? Like, you call that a smack?

[Talon]

I don't remember her doing. I do remember people starting to hit her harder because you wanted to be seen in front of the cool kids as being strong.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Paddle that ass. Really lay into it.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Talon]

Needless to say, I don't think it's the first time she ever did this. But at the end, she went back to her seat and thanked the class for helping her celebrate her birthday.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. When she goes, that was the best birthday I've ever had in my life.

[Monica Padman]

She's going to each class saying it's her birthday. Definitely.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. She gets spanked every day at work. And she loves it.

[Monica Padman]

She loves it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. And they loved it, too.

[Monica Padman]

They didn't love it it at first, but then they got.

[Dax Shepard]

I wonder if people felt weird after. I bet they loved it. And then I wonder if anyone was like, that was a little bit weird.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you remember what you were thinking during this?

[Talon]

I was thinking it was very strange. I could feel there was something wrong about it.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Talon]

But I still smacked her because I was supposed to smack her. I do remember that. I tucked it away in my brain for like a decade and then it came out one day.

[Monica Padman]

It's like a source of shame kind of.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to meet her. Her.

[Monica Padman]

So she's dead.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, she was 50 in 1970. Yeah, probably. Unless she's a centenarian.

[Monica Padman]

She was wild. So she lived a big life. And I think it's over.

[Talon]

We Wanted her to come back as kids just because of the spectacle of it all. And maybe to better process it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, we sometimes return to the source of our trauma looking for answers.

[Talon]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, Taylin, I love this story so much. Me too. I shouldn't, but I love it.

[Monica Padman]

It's very good.

[Talon]

The epilogue is that apparently some of the parents must have heard something because we never ever, ever saw her again.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah, that's right, Dax.

[Natasha]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Everyone's having a good time. Everyone won.

[Monica Padman]

They didn't, though. Talon had to hold this story for 10 years when he was able to die.

[Dax Shepard]

Let me ask you just. And be dead honest. I don't want to lead the Witness. Are you grateful this happened to you, or do you wish it hadn't happened?

[Talon]

In retrospect, I'm grateful partly because I'm here.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's a fun story.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, sure.

[Talon]

And also because I think it was just at the ve where you don't really understand.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Talon]

Like, if it would have been a sixth grade class, it would have been really strange. Right.

[Monica Padman]

It is still so strange. A bunch of like nine year olds, like, slapping this 50 year old woman's ass.

[Dax Shepard]

I just picture in sixth grade, someone got the idea to like booty bumper, you know, like thrust themselves into her.

[Monica Padman]

She's done this enough. She knows the grade.

[Dax Shepard]

She's very controlled. Weirdly, she has a lot of control over this killer.

[Monica Padman]

She.

[Dax Shepard]

Inappropriate. Oh my God.

[Talon]

I think she knew the tradition.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you think she climaxes during this?

[Natasha]

No.

[Monica Padman]

Later, when she thinks about it. Probably. Which is creepy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It's not appropriate.

[Talon]

I tried to remember and I couldn't. We took a bathroom break at some point.

[Dax Shepard]

Thanks. For my birthday. That was so fun. I just gotta quickly tinkle. Oh my gosh, Dylan, that was great. Thank you.

[Monica Padman]

Thank you for that awesome story.

[Talon]

Yeah, absolutely. I want to shout out my wife. She's been an armchair forever. She's got me into Anonymous. She's got my daughter into Anonymous. We love Anonymous.

[Dax Shepard]

We've heard every single one. Oh, great.

[Talon]

And I was so excited to have this prompt. I saw it and I thought, no way.

[Monica Padman]

You nailed it. It really is a good one.

[Dax Shepard]

I think people wait long enough, there will be a prompt for them. Have a great rest of your summer talent.

[Talon]

Okay, thanks. Take care.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, Bye. Bye. Who am I gonna say it reminds.

[Monica Padman]

Me of my dad?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Thousand percent. So much. Your dad. Like that really playful sense of humor. Uber intelligent. You could tell.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

An observer of like. Well, yeah. He's reading like this science fiction and Stuff. And then he's giggling at this other thing he's observing.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that makes me happy.

[Dax Shepard]

I really felt like I was talking to a shoak a couple different times. And your dad's a little rascally, which is fun.

[Monica Padman]

I've heard that he was a big rascal in his youth.

[Dax Shepard]

So bad he had to leave India.

[Monica Padman]

He was kicked out before he got arrested. Wow, that was so cool.

[Dax Shepard]

I loved that last story. And you're not supposed to love that story, but isn't it funny? It's like, right on the verge.

[Monica Padman]

It's because it happened so long ago. There's something about it that feels like 70s. Yeah. She had this all pants. She wore those pants.

[Dax Shepard]

She wanted thin, tight pants so she could feel.

[Monica Padman]

Some of these stories are really.

[Dax Shepard]

This is a Jonathan Haidt. I should almost email him about this.

[Monica Padman]

No, this is ethically. It's not ethically.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, well, if everyone flourished and no one suffered.

[Monica Padman]

No, no, we can't say that. It could have scarred some of the kids. Like, I really feel bad.

[Dax Shepard]

I smacked a woman as hard as I could.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Like I said, she forced me to. Like, I was a hero on the day, but on my bike ride home, I was like, I hurt a woman. But she cooed she could.

[Monica Padman]

What if it's. They hit her as hard as they can? Everyone laughed. She liked it. And then that person became an abuser.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, like they got positive reinforcement for smacking their PT.

[Monica Padman]

Do you think her name was Ms. Chevius?

[Dax Shepard]

Mischievous. No, I don't think that that guy would think it's okay to then hit women. But I could imagine it forming a kink for him.

[Monica Padman]

That's what I'm saying. It could get very complicated.

[Dax Shepard]

He might have been extra horny for late 50s s m trying to recreate.

[Monica Padman]

This, but especially the S. Sadus.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Because he got to administer it, so now he has. So don't do this.

[Dax Shepard]

And then she ran over the doorknob. I can't get this door open. Oh, I gotta fucking shove it.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, stop.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, all right, all right. I love you. All right.

[Anne]

I love you.

[Monica Padman]

Bye.

[Dax Shepard]

Suck. Oh, it's stuck. It suck. It's open. It's open. I opened it.

[Monica Padman]

You made it so much worse. Now it's definitely.

[Dax Shepard]

It's open. It's open. It's open. Everyone go back to your seat. Don't look at me. It's open.

[Monica Padman]

Bye.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you want to sing a tune or something? We know a theme song. Oh, okay, great. We don't have a theme song for this new show. So yeah, here I go. Go, go. We're gonna ask some random questions and with the help of armchairies, we'll get some suggestions on the Fly Rhyme Dish. On the Fly Rhyme Dish. Enjoy. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry App, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.