Cher

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Guest: Cher
Release Date: January 5, 2026

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Overview

This episode kicks off 2026 with the legendary Cher, whose career as a singer, actor, activist, and unapologetic icon spans over seven decades. Dax Shepard (joined at times by Monica Padman, Erin Weekley, and Kristen Bell) dives into Cher’s newly released memoir, her formative years, fame, tumultuous relationships (especially with Sonny Bono), her reinvention in music and movies, resilience, and uniquely honest take on life. The conversation is candid, funny, and at times deeply moving—a celebration of playing the long game and surviving the chaos with both toughness and vulnerability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Cher’s Early Life and Family Dynamics

[04:53–08:28] Childhood and Family

• Cher describes an unconventional and challenging childhood: frequent moves, time spent in an orphanage, and living with multiple strangers due to her mother's circumstances.
• “I think I see my life from sideways.” (Cher – 12:06)
• Cher’s mother married several times (“I think six. She married my dad twice for some reason...” – Cher, 16:14), and expected her daughters to “kind of have to marry someone” due to the era.
• Her revelation of being dyslexic (“I can read. I can't read and speak the lines...”—Cher, 18:18), and struggles with audiobook narration.

Meeting and Relationship with Sonny Bono

[19:10–27:20] The Sonny & Cher Genesis

• Met Sonny at 16, he was 27 but thought Cher was older as she’d lied about her age (“18 was my number.” – Cher, 26:40).
• Started out platonically; Cher moved in as a roommate when kicked out by her previous roommate.
• Their contrasting personalities: Sonny as fun and silly initially, but became controlling as their career took off.
• The beginning of working with producer Phil Spector, including both the opportunity and his notorious reputation.

Rapid Rise and Fame

[31:01–34:09] Early Music Career & Fame

• Background singing on Phil Spector’s tracks (“Be My Baby”, “You’ve Lost That Lovin’ Feeling”).
• The duo’s unique style (bohemian fashion) was seen as outrageous in the ‘60s, leading to them being kicked out of hotels—ironically giving them press that spurred their fame in England.
• Their single “I Got You, Babe” becomes a massive international hit.

The Downturn and Reinvention

[35:21–41:24] Career Valleys and Sonny’s Control

• “It had passed us by at that time... we didn’t really grow with the people, and everybody was doing drugs. We didn’t.” (Cher, 35:34)
• Sonny’s business acumen and iron grip: designs a lounge act, creates “The Sonny & Cher Comedy Hour.”
• Ratings success: "Cher was getting 30 million viewers a week." (Dax, 37:06)
• Domestic life: Sonny’s restriction, burning Cher’s clothes out of jealousy, isolating her from friends, and infidelity.

Breaking Free: Financial & Emotional Realities

[44:46–47:04] Breaking Away from Sonny

• Shocking revelation: all of Cher’s earnings went to Sonny (95%) and his lawyer (5%): “Zero percent for Cher!” – Monica Padman, 45:04.
• Sonny refuses an even partnership, prompting the end.
• Mentorship from Lucille Ball: “Fuck him. You’re the talented one.” (Lucille Ball via Cher, 46:50)

On Luck, Resilience, and Non-Victim Mentality

[47:47–57:13] Perspective and Reinvention

• Cher’s philosophy: owning her story without self-pity.
• “You are not going to be destroyed or dominated by unfortunate events. There’s no self-pity in your story, even though you’re entitled to a lot of it.” (Dax Shepard, 56:39)
• Cher likens herself to a bumper car: “...you hit the wall, and you either stay there, or you hit the wall and come back and go that way.” (58:20)
• Reinventing herself continually, both in music (“Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves”, “Half Breed”, “Dark Lady”, “Believe”) and film (her turn in “Silkwood”, “Mask”, “Moonstruck”).

Memorable Movie-Making Experiences

[47:18–50:23] Acting Career and Collaborations

• Cher’s “lucky” pivot into movies: Mike Nichols apologized for underestimating her, casting her with Meryl Streep in "Silkwood."
• Difficult collaboration on “Mask” with Peter Bogdanovich.
• Cher fought for Nicolas Cage as her “Moonstruck” co-star—“I quit [the film]” until he was cast.

Fame, Iconhood, and Groundedness

[11:18–13:43] What It Means to Be an Icon

• Cher feels disconnected from her status: “It just doesn’t mean anything. I’m a woman who’s always worked... I don’t buy that other stuff.” (Cher, 11:18)
• “If I see people and they’re going crazy, I’ll go up to them, give them a hug and go, it’s okay.” (Cher, 11:41)
• Admiration for Audrey Hepburn, who congratulated her on her Oscar win—one of Cher’s formative starstruck moments.

Advice, Life Lessons, and Cher’s Mother

[14:05–15:13]

• Cher’s best advice from her mother: “If it doesn’t matter in five years, it doesn’t matter.” (Cher, 14:18; also repeated by Kristen Bell, 14:14).
• The influence of her mother as a personality template and explanation of her own traits.

On Love, Men, and Relationships

[54:09–55:22]

• Only two men Cher felt she truly deserved—one a kind, talented man whose addiction made things impossible, and her current partner with whom she’s happily involved (“Alexander is a wonderful person.” – Cher, 55:11).
• Quick assessment of past relationships, including enduring friendship with David Geffen and respect for her former husband, Robert.

On Money, Success, and Industry Sexism

[52:45–53:48]

• “I have never had luck with men and money... it seems like I’m a target. And there’s so many ways to do that with record companies.” (Cher, 52:44)
• Cher on being repeatedly “screwed” by managers, the business side of music, and how many women and Black performers suffered the same.

Modern Perspective

[53:38–54:06 & throughout]

• Cher credits luck for much of her success amid talent—a reminder that stardom isn’t a straight narrative.
• “There are people so much more talented than me, but I’m lucky too.” (Cher, 53:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Writing Her Memoir

• “You have no idea how hard it is to write a book. ...when I read it, I thought, this is not gonna happen.” (Cher, 05:50)
• “She let me speak the way I speak. Because the other ones, it just didn’t sound like me.” (Cher on working with a successful co-writer, 06:41)

On Surviving Chaos

• “I’m completely crazy and I’m completely grounded… I’m a Taurus and a Gemini. I’m three people.” (Cher, 13:23)

On the Absurdity of Being an Icon

• “If I see people and they’re going crazy, I’ll go up to them, give them a hug, and go, it’s okay.” (Cher, 11:41)
• “What the fuck is an icon? Audrey, Kate, Cher…” (Cher, 12:43)

On Resilience

• “I have to work at this all the time because I’m fragile…So I am always trying to remember who I am innately. But sometimes it’s a struggle.” (Cher, 56:56)
• “You hit the wall…you either stay there, or you come back and go that way.” (Cher, 58:20)

On Showbiz Exploitation

• “Zero percent for Cher!” (Monica, 45:04, after learning of Cher’s lopsided contract with Sonny)

Advice

• “If it doesn’t matter in five years, it doesn’t matter.” (Cher quoting her mother, 14:18; repeated mantra).

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Key Timestamps

• 04:53–08:28: Cher’s childhood, dyslexia, early auditions
• 11:18–13:43: Fame, icon-status, and being “Cher”
• 14:05–15:13: Advice from Cher’s mother
• 19:10–27:20: Meeting Sonny, moving in, becoming partners
• 31:01–34:09: Music career beginnings, Phil Spector, first hits
• 35:21–41:24: Career challenges, Sonny’s control, “Sonny & Cher Comedy Hour”
• 44:46–47:04: Financial exploitation, Lucille Ball’s advice
• 47:18–50:23: Acting career, "Silkwood," Mike Nichols, and "Moonstruck"
• 53:38–54:06: No strategic career planning, the role of luck
• 54:09–55:22: Reflections on love, deserving relationships
• 56:35–58:20: On not being a victim, dealing with life’s blows

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Tone & Vibe

Cher is fiercely honest, irreverent, vulnerable, and funny throughout; Dax, Monica, and Kristen provide supportive humor, warmth, and curiosity. The conversation is laced with self-deprecation, and genuine respect, often cutting through myth and mythmaking to emphasize the value of staying tough—and human—in the face of relentless change. Cher's “straight shooter” persona delivers wisdom that feels earned, not performative.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode is an essential listen for not just Cher fans but anyone interested in resilience, showbiz history, and unadorned life lessons. Cher’s story moves swiftly through rock ‘n’ roll myth, candid takes on love and money, and honest admissions about survival, identity, and not letting trauma (or being an “icon”) define you.

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Further Listening or Reading

• For more on Cher’s life, pick up her memoir "Cher: The Memoir, Part One."
• Noted: Dax, Monica, and Erin encourage everyone to “shoot the shit,” be vulnerable, and embrace the messiness—a major theme threading through the episode.

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Compiled by Armchair Expert Podcast Summarizer

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Padman and best friend Erin Weekley. Hi Happy New Year Armchairs.

[Monica Padman]

Happy New Year.

[Erin Weekley]

Happy New Year.

[Monica Padman]

Another year together.

[Dax Shepard]

Another year together. Let's go really hard in 2026 just to remind everyone it's an even number. That's a good like it. And we're starting the year with an enormous bang. Cher. Cher. One of the first and original single named It's True. Cher is a singer, an actor, an activist, a philanthropist and an icon.

[Monica Padman]

She's an icon whether she wants to believe it or not.

[Dax Shepard]

She doesn't want to believe it, but she is. Her albums believe Heart of Stone, Closer to the Truth, Moonstruck, Burlesque, Ding Ding ding. And she has and I'm on record over this last year, so you know, I'm not fluffing any pillows. I read this book last year and I absolutely loved it and recommended it to everybody. Her book, which we're here to talk about. Share the memoir, Part one is fucking action packed thrill ride. I recommend it so much. Please enjoy. Share. We are supported by Apple Watch. All right, so here's a truth that made me feel way better about myself. Most people quit their New Year's fitness resolutions by the second Friday of January. They even call it Quitters Day, January 9th, which is wild. We all start the year with these big goals and then life happens, motivation fades and we just quit. But here's the thing. This year we're quitting. Quitting. An Apple Watch is basically designed to not let you bow. It tracks your activities, sends you those little nudges when you haven't stood in a while, celebrates when you close your activity rings and keeps you accountable with streaks and reminders. It's like having a workout partner on your wrist that won't let you off the hook. So if you've been thinking about getting serious about your fitness goal or honestly just making it past January 9 this time, Apple Watch is the move. Let's do this. This is the year we all quit. Quitting iPhone 11 or later required. We are supported by quints. Winter in LA is weird. It'll be 75 degrees one day. Then suddenly you need an actual coat. I've been rotating through the same three jackets for years and honestly, they're looking rough. So I finally Upgraded my winter wardrobe with Quint's. And the difference is wild. Their Mongolian cashmere sweaters are ridicul off. Like, I didn't know cashmere could feel this good without costing a mortgage payment. And their wool coats and Italian leather outerwear, they're the kind of pieces that actually last.

[Monica Padman]

They also have amazing homeware. Do not sleep on the homeware. And if someone's moving and you want to get them, like a little housewarming gift, it's the perfect place. I got a friend some curtains.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you did? Quince curtains. QCs.

[Monica Padman]

Quince curtains do it.

[Dax Shepard]

What I love about Quint is they cut out the middleman. Bye. Bye. They work directly with factories and have ethical production standards. So you're getting luxury quality without the luxury markup. We're talking premium materials, thoughtful design stuff that'll last you multiple winners, not just one. Refresh your winter wardrobe with quints. Go to quinte.comdax for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.comdax Free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.comdax he's an upchurch. I hope you have backups. That's not enough Dr. Pepper for anybody.

[Cher]

Yes, it is.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a joke. That amount of Dr. Pepper. Please, Mama, join us.

[Cher]

Yes. Come here.

[Dax Shepard]

No, right there.

[Cher]

I like your outfit. Thanks.

[Monica Padman]

We're going to see Wicked today.

[Cher]

Oh, cool.

[Kristen Bell]

So I'm eventizing it.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you have Wicked Fever like Kristen does?

[Cher]

I'm really interested. I didn't see the first one.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you see the Broadway play?

[Cher]

No, I've just seen the Lion King because we have a six year old and he's really precocious. I mean, he and I were chasing his dad. No, his dad ended up chasing us. And I had a guard there and he goes up to the guard, takes his face and he goes, my dad's a psychopath. Oh, wow. So, yeah, he's very precocious.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. You know when they say, like when someone tells you who they are on a date, listen. You've heard this term. You could probably say they're children too. If their children declare them a psychopath. Maybe we look into it.

[Cher]

He's not.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you like being around a little person?

[Cher]

Yes. Before I met him, I walked around my house saying, I want a man and a toddler.

[Dax Shepard]

You declared it to the universe. I want a man and a toddler.

[Cher]

Yes. I wasn't expecting them maybe together, but that's what I wanted.

[Dax Shepard]

You wanted both of those things. And if they came as a pair.

[Cher]

Yeah, I was expecting them separately, but.

[Monica Padman]

Not in the same person.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, great question.

[Monica Padman]

You don't want your man to behave like a child.

[Cher]

No. Except sometimes they do in the bedroom. No, no, no. But he's funny. He's really funny.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, I want to tell you that you were going to come in when the book was coming out a while ago. And so what I do when we have a guest, and if they have a book, I start reading it. But if they cancel, I stop reading the book because I no longer need to read the book and I've got to read other books. But you canceled and I go, fuck, I'm going to finish this thing. Like, I love your book.

[Cher]

Thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I kept just motoring through.

[Cher]

I have the other one, too.

[Dax Shepard]

Part two.

[Cher]

Yes. But you have no idea how hard it is to write a book. I mean, it was written a couple of times, and then when I read it, I thought, this is not gonna happen.

[Dax Shepard]

It's incredibly honest.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. What were the parts of the first versions that you had to throw away? Were you like, oh, it's not honest enough?

[Cher]

I talked to a lady who was English. Not happening. It wasn't her fault. Then I tried with a girl that was really sweet and I loved her, but it wasn't happening. And then my friend Eric Roth, I called him and was like, eric, I am so screwed. I need somebody. And he said, well, I have somebody. And he sent her over. And then we started and it just started to work. And I would say everything, and it just kind of started to fall in place.

[Dax Shepard]

So was it that she was not intimidated by you, or she wasn't afraid to corral you? What did she do that was a good fit?

[Cher]

She let me speak the way I speak. Because the other ones, it just didn't sound like me. And it was like, why? What is this?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Cher]

So I never read it.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you not do the audio version? No, no.

[Cher]

Because I'm dyslexic. I started each chapter.

[Dax Shepard]

I know this because I actually did consume a lot of it over audio. And I'm now remembering that, yeah, you said, I would love to read this to you, but I just am not a good reader. So I'll fuck up this good story.

[Cher]

When I went for my first job. So fucked up. But it was for Robert Allman. And I only got it because my mom and Robert were friends. And my mom woke him up, didn't know it was him. Cause she had my number in New York. And his number right underneath each other. And so she said his Cher there woke him up. He was furious. He's kind of a big bear. Well, he's dead now. But anyway, he was a big bear. And he said, what the fuck would Cher be doing here? She said, she wants to be an actress. And she was doing an audition for Joe Papp. And then he called me.

[Dax Shepard]

No kidding?

[Cher]

Yeah. And I thought it was a joke. And he said, I'm gonna send a script over. I'm not offering you anything. I read it, and I knew who you wanted me to. And he called me and I went, I can't find this person. I can't do it. He said, have you got a job? And I said, no. And he said, well, then I don't know what you're talking about. Be here tomorrow. And then I said, okay, I can act or I can read, but I can't do both at the same time. And he said, be here tomorrow.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, what a blessing.

[Cher]

Sandy Dennis said it was the worst reading she's ever heard.

[Dax Shepard]

And she had heard a lot.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

How did you, over time, get good at reading scripts and being able to memorize them?

[Cher]

I can read. I can't read and speak the lines. If you could have seen me trying to read the beginning of the book. How horrible was it, Jen, out of 10?

[Dax Shepard]

Jen? Three.

[Monica Padman]

That's great.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. And you guys work together, so that's probably a one.

[Cher]

Yeah. We've worked together for a million years.

[Dax Shepard]

She probably bumped it up one.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. We're joined by a lovely lady, my bride, Kristen. And for anyone who wouldn't remember, you guys are ex co stars. And what is your memory, hon, of finding out, was Cher in the cast before you or after? We're talking about Burlesque before. Certainly she was first in. Careful there.

[Kristen Bell]

Certainly I was not attached before Cher was attached. I was cast in a movie that Cher was starring in called Burlesque, and I was very excited because it was Cher. Christina Aguilera also.

[Cher]

It could have been a really good, fun movie. Except for you know who. Except for both of them.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Kristin being the first one.

[Cher]

Not cast members. Not cast members.

[Kristen Bell]

It was a hard shoot. It was a hard shoot.

[Dax Shepard]

I was present. I was present.

[Monica Padman]

Can we reveal anything today?

[Dax Shepard]

All I can say is that not being involved with it was. There was a romantic relationship happening for people that were very high above.

[Cher]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And that was playing out on set quite frequently and dramatically and uniquely to anyone that's been in show business.

[Cher]

But there was another thing that I cannot Mention.

[Dax Shepard]

Look at me really hard in the eyes and convey it to me. Oh, no.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, so what if we really got it?

[Cher]

Then the song that I did in the movie, he said, I cutting that song out because I don't want Cher to ruin my movie.

[Monica Padman]

What?

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, okay.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't know that.

[Cher]

Yeah, but you remember how.

[Kristen Bell]

I remember a lot of drama, but I also remember the way.

[Cher]

How funny I am.

[Kristen Bell]

Yes. The way you get. At least the way I get through dramatic or chaotic situations is to find something to hold hands with in the corner and just laugh at everything. That's how I get through it. I was either doing that with you or with Stanley.

[Cher]

I love Stanley.

[Dax Shepard]

Every woman loves Stanley. Don't you think it's universal?

[Monica Padman]

It's very likable.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

Universal appeal.

[Cher]

I love him.

[Dax Shepard]

What do you remember about young Kristen Bell? Did you go, oh, yeah, this girl will definitely be all that she's proven to be.

[Cher]

We got along so well. We were very simpatico, and I respected her a lot. I didn't know who she was, but she was good.

[Dax Shepard]

How much are you aware of the Persona you bring into something like that project? People are very excited that Cher is there, and you have to take that on and deliver to some degree. Like, how much are you aware of the Persona of Cher? When you're just someone who wants to enter this job like anyone else and act and do a good job, but you have to be aware of this other presence that's around, which is share the icon.

[Cher]

It just doesn't mean anything. It's just, I'm a woman who's always worked, and that's who I am, and I'm successful, but I don't buy that other stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

You can't connect to it, but you can observe the impact, though, it's having on people.

[Cher]

Surely I am who I am, and I've worked hard to be who I am, but I don't see the. I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

Putting you on that type of pedestal.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, sure.

[Cher]

If I see people and they're, like, going crazy, I'll go up to them, give them a hug, and go, it's okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And then do they freak out, though? I feel like sometimes you see those moments and people just can't handle it.

[Cher]

Seeing the funniest pictures, people behind me realizing it, but somebody else is taking a picture of me and they get this other person. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

You must be seeing your life from above in those circumstances.

[Cher]

I think I see it from sideways.

[Dax Shepard]

Surely you had people that you looked at as if they were Cher.

[Cher]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, who were yours?

[Cher]

Audrey Hepburn. The Hepburn girls. I bumped into her with my Academy.

[Dax Shepard]

Award in my hand backstage at the Oscars.

[Cher]

Yeah, but you know, there's the black curtain when you're going off. Yeah, she was in the black curtain. I didn't see her, and I bumped right into her, and she said, I'm so glad you won. I was wishing you would win.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you able to feel calm and present, or were you a little bit revved up that it was her?

[Cher]

I was revved up.

[Kristen Bell]

From my perspective. You think it's like a waste of time. Let's cut through all of that.

[Cher]

Yeah, I want to get to the. I'm the human. Let's talk. I'm not an icon. What the fuck is an icon? Audrey, Kate, Cher.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm not Audrey.

[Cher]

I'm not Audrey or Kate.

[Dax Shepard]

Hate to tell you this.

[Monica Padman]

If you're a one namer, you're an icon.

[Dax Shepard]

If you've sold 100 million albums over the course of seven decades, if you've won Academy, you know, listen, you checked all the boxes. Sadly, it just adds up to you.

[Kristen Bell]

Whether you want to accept it or not. But that was one of the reasons that I gravitated towards you, because I definitely, when I first booked that movie, had that. That you had with the Hepburn girls. Cause I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm gonna be in this movie with Cher, and she's an icon. But your vibe in real life is so grounded.

[Cher]

Well, I'm not grounded at all. No, no, no. I'm completely crazy and I'm completely grounded.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, both.

[Cher]

And also, I mean, I'm a Taurus and a Gemini. I'm three people. Oh, I don't know what any of.

[Kristen Bell]

That means, but when you talk to you, it does feel like you're going. Let's just cut through all the waste of time of like, oh, I'm this. I'm this way. Let's just talk like human beings.

[Cher]

We just had fun. We just talk. What do you do? You just talk to somebody, connect as people.

[Kristen Bell]

You're fun to shoot the shit with. And I will tell you, I'm not going to intrude on the rest of your interview, so I'll leave you with this.

[Cher]

No, no, don't go.

[Kristen Bell]

Why?

[Cher]

Because I want you here.

[Kristen Bell]

Stay for a couple more minutes, then I'm going to let you get to your thing.

[Cher]

We haven't been getting to it.

[Monica Padman]

We've been getting to it.

[Dax Shepard]

We're going to start in about a half hour.

[Kristen Bell]

No, you're joking. 7:00pm but listen, people ask me a lot. What's the best piece of advice you've ever gotten? And I say it's from you because you said to me, honey, if it doesn't matter in five years, it doesn't matter.

[Cher]

That's my mom's. If it doesn't matter in five years, it doesn't matter.

[Monica Padman]

That's great.

[Cher]

And I've used it my whole life.

[Monica Padman]

And it's still relevant.

[Cher]

It's always, my mom was super cool and my mom was like a different version of me, a blonde version of me. Or I was a dark version of her.

[Dax Shepard]

You were the Armenian version of her.

[Cher]

My dad's Armenian, but I feel more like my mom because I didn't really know my dad. And then my mom said one day, would you like to meet your dad? And I always knew there was somebody that everybody didn't talk about. He was like the dark figure that no one talked about because I loved my sister's dad as my dad.

[Dax Shepard]

Both named John, conveniently.

[Cher]

Right. So I met him.

[Monica Padman]

How old were you?

[Cher]

11. I was so happy that I finally knew why I did certain things.

[Dax Shepard]

It explained a lot.

[Cher]

Yeah. And also my mother and my sister have huge tempers and I don't have one. Unless.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Cher]

And you got to push me way far. I mean, you can push me for a long time and then stop or you're going to get killed.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, what I like the most about your book and what is unique about it for a current book is it reminds me of listening to someone share an aa.

[Cher]

Never done drugs. I don't drink.

[Dax Shepard]

It's crazy you didn't do drugs given that your biological dad was a junkie and both my husbands, both husbands junkies. So that's crazy. But. But when you see AA scenes in movies, they're always sad and saccharine and someone's like. And then my wife came in and she found me. That's not our vibe. Our vibe is laughing at everything we fucked up. We own it. But there's not a ton of shame or embarrassment. And your story is told in this very unique, non victimy way that I love because you could have. The childhood's fucking crazy. It's one for the ages.

[Cher]

The marriages were pretty weird too.

[Dax Shepard]

Your mom did seven or eight marriages along the way.

[Cher]

I think six. I don't know. She married my dad twice for some.

[Dax Shepard]

Reason, so we don't know how to count that. But suffice to say there was a new dude every couple years and she got married to Those dudes. And you moved all over the place?

[Cher]

Well, I think because in those days, my mom used to say, you kind of got to marry someone.

[Dax Shepard]

That's just how it is.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Originally, when you first arrive, you go straight to an orphanage?

[Cher]

Yes. It didn't even take me a long time. I just went straight to it.

[Dax Shepard]

You went straight to it and you were there for how long? This was like in Pennsylvania, some California.

[Cher]

Yeah. My dad took my mom to Pennsylvania and said, I'm going to New York, I'll be right back. My mom had to make a living, so my dad took me to a Catholic home and my mom came to visit me every week. And then my mom got sick and she missed three weeks and she came back and they went, that's it for you? They wouldn't let her see me? No.

[Dax Shepard]

They cut her off.

[Cher]

Yep.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you know how long you were in there?

[Cher]

When I was in there, I was crawling. When I left, I was walking.

[Monica Padman]

You don't have memories of that or.

[Cher]

Do you really don't, But I have memories from pretty far back.

[Dax Shepard]

Have you ever heard of Gabor Mate?

[Cher]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

He's incredible. He's a psychologist and he's kind of like a world famous one. And yeah, he was a little boy in Nazi Germany and he had the moment where his mom went into a camp and had to hand him to a stranger. And he lived with a stranger for I don't know what it was a year or something. Then was reunited.

[Cher]

I lived with two families that were strangers.

[Dax Shepard]

You found out later in life, right?

[Cher]

Yeah. I had no idea. My grandmother brought this woman. And I knew the names of the women, Edith and Mackie, but I thought they were babysitters. I never knew that. I lived with them. And the woman comes in with my high chair. Oh, we had Bambi on the back.

[Dax Shepard]

Of it that she had saved. That's pretty sweet.

[Cher]

I'm looking at my grandmother and I'm thinking, what is this? Why have I been led to believe this? But then I've had some terrible, terrible things happen to me. Some things I couldn't put in the book. But I don't want to write around. I've got places I want to go.

[Dax Shepard]

So much of your story is so specific to what era it happened in. And I think it's kind of telling of your lack of shame or embarrassment about it, which I love, and your non victiminess. But life was way different in the 70s if you were a kid.

[Cher]

We started in the 60s.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You were born in 47.

[Cher]

6. When I was about 4 years old. My mom was in drama class. All of our friends were artists, singers, dancers. And I didn't even know there were ugly people in the world.

[Dax Shepard]

I was gonna say they were all inordinately gorgeous. Right? Everyone was super stylish and sexy and living that lifestyle.

[Cher]

Right. But I mean, also kind of crazy and neurotic. I used to sit in the seats in the audience and watch everybody rehearsing. I was the only child too, so everyone wanted to pick me up and kiss me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you were the center of attention, I'm sure.

[Cher]

Hello.

[Dax Shepard]

It's addictive. But dad leaves right away. John number one. John number two is husband number two. Two or three, two or two. And he's special. You fall in love with him, you're with him 0 to 9. But between dad and John, who becomes your stepdad. There's also. Mom was engaged for a minute to a casino owner. Prim.

[Cher]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was curious. Is that Prim Nevada? Is that the same person? Yeah, it is.

[Cher]

Well, I don't know, but it makes sense.

[Dax Shepard]

It makes sense, right? Who the hell is named Prim? And I'm like this guy. Prim's a whole town in Nevada. It's a gambling town. But I'm imagining her mom's boyfriend went on to create this town. You don't have any memories of that? You were too little probably.

[Cher]

No. And also he didn't like me.

[Dax Shepard]

He didn't want a kid around. So then your mom meets Johnny in an acting class and you love him?

[Cher]

Yes, I loved my dad because my dad was funny and handsome and did all kinds of things with me. And when my sister was born, nobody cared about me. Nobody was even looking. I just became a non entity. And he one day came in my room and said, you know, I don't see what's so great about that. Baby, let's go get some ice cream.

[Dax Shepard]

Uh huh.

[Cher]

You know, and everybody else was like.

[Dax Shepard]

He had a drinking problem.

[Cher]

Oh yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And he got violent.

[Cher]

Everybody in the family besides me had a huge temper. Huge.

[Monica Padman]

Huge.

[Cher]

Huge. And there was corporal punishment because that's what happened in those days.

[Dax Shepard]

Right?

[Monica Padman]

Maybe that's why you don't have one. Maybe it's in reaction to being around so much that you've taken another route.

[Cher]

It's not that you're born with it. My mom and my sister.

[Dax Shepard]

Short fuses. Fly off the handle.

[Cher]

No fuse.

[Dax Shepard]

How were you making peace with the fact that there was this man who was so loving and kind to you and saw you and no one else Was seeing you that he had this Dr. Jekyll side, or, I guess, Mr. Hyde side.

[Cher]

It was very scary because you were, like, constantly vigilant.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It makes you hyper vigilant. Like, how do we prevent him from turning into a werewolf? Because I love this version. How do we head off any problem?

[Cher]

Okay. This is what you get to be. You get to be able to read the room really well. And I knew the drink where I had to be out by.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Oh, that's gonna tip on this one. So you get really savvy. But do you also think it opens up for you a tolerance that people are really fucked up and they're really nice? Do you think it might have lowered your expectations in a way that later materialized was sunny?

[Cher]

Sonny wasn't like that for such a long time. Sonny was fabulous. And he would do stupid things. We would do water paints and we would go to the park and this guy played the saxophone and we would laugh. We had a lot of fun. And he was special in a way. And then it became very treacherous.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He got insanely controlling, as we'll get to. But do you think you were a little bit like, yeah, this is how men act now. There's this new side of him and it's a pain in the ass and I gotta deal with it. But also, this is how men are.

[Cher]

It was so both. And look, I was so young. I was 16 when I met him.

[Dax Shepard]

If you wrote about him today, people would be like, well, this is the most traumatic thing I've ever read. But standard for the day was you were super attractive. You're 16, you almost get hit by Warren Beatty.

[Cher]

I lied to him.

[Dax Shepard]

You lied to Warren Beatty?

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You lied to everybody. Right. You were dating a ton of older guys.

[Cher]

I used to be 16. And, yeah, I mean, in those days, it wasn't so bad.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm trying to make peace with it while I read it because I just get it. It was standard. You were never thinking, like, it was weird, I'm 16, this guy's 30. He invited me over.

[Cher]

No, but I knew you couldn't tell people.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. So there was still a thing. Enough that you knew you had to.

[Dax Shepard]

It sounds like it was all pageantry, though. I'm 18.

[Cher]

Well, no, because people wouldn't go out with you if you told them you were 16, which I think is probably good of them. There was the emotional line for guys.

[Dax Shepard]

But how old was Warren when he almost hit your car and invited you over?

[Cher]

I don't know. I was 16. I don't know how old Warren is? He was older, but he wasn't old.

[Dax Shepard]

In his 20s, probably.

[Cher]

Probably.

[Dax Shepard]

This could happen in LA. You could just be driving and the next thing you know, you're friends with Warren, baby.

[Cher]

Right? And I just left a guy that I was dating, a tennis player. And then I'm going down the street, down Sunset, and some asshole comes up and almost sideswipes me. I have to go into Schwab's parking lot.

[Dax Shepard]

Duck into Schwab's real quick.

[Cher]

Yeah. And then he came up and he had glasses on. So I didn't know who he was, but I didn't really care much about who he was. I just knew my mother and my friend Penny would be really impressed.

[Dax Shepard]

And they were very. Nowadays, if your 16 year old is hanging out with mid 20s movie star, you'd be like this. Not for you. But they were like, oh, tell us more.

[Cher]

No, but he talked to my mom and she went from, you're never going out of the house again to oh, it's okay, honey.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Cher]

He was so charming, so different. And later, like a couple of years. No, not a couple of years later. Like eight months later. So he calls me and said, let's go to dinner. And I went, I have a boyfriend. He said, well, okay, let's go to lunch.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, okay. So I'll just fast forward through, but we're not putting a fine enough point on the fact that you were in Fresno, you were in New York, there was a husband who was financially set in New York, you all moved to New York, your mom hates it, you moved back to la, you're just bouncing all around.

[Cher]

Yes, but I was used to it. We were gypsy kind of people.

[Dax Shepard]

By the time you're 16, you move out.

[Cher]

Yes, I'm finished. What I thought was, I've learned as much as I can learn from these people. I'm leaving.

[Dax Shepard]

So at 16, you move in with a girlfriend.

[Cher]

Yes, well, she worked for my mom for a while and then when my mom knew I was going, they said, you have to live with her. Like she was somebody that was going to really keep a reign on me. We moved into this apartment and when my parents lived, we smoked a cigarette in every room. We just put in ashtrays everywhere and smoked a cigarette in every room.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Pretty exciting to be in Hollywood, living on your own at 16 and you're hot.

[Cher]

We were in Beverly Hills.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So you're living with her and then you meet Sunny.

[Cher]

Yes, but he likes my girlfriend. My girlfriend's gay.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, not an issue in the 70s. Because you also date Geffen for quite a while.

[Cher]

Yeah, but that's a different thing because he never had been in love with anybody. So I was the first person that he had real feelings for. So we had a special arrangement when we met. How did we meet?

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know where you met. And I should.

[Cher]

Okay, well, so should I, but let's.

[Dax Shepard]

Walk up to that point. So you meet Sunny. Sunny likes your girlfriend.

[Cher]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

She's gay.

[Dax Shepard]

She's gay. It's a mess.

[Cher]

Runs off with her boyfriend.

[Dax Shepard]

Frau leaves. You need a roommate. You're just this dumb kid that hangs around a bit. With Sonny, it's very innocuous.

[Cher]

At the beginning, he and I got to be friends, and I would do stupid things with him like the girls his age would never do. I was happy to just do nothing.

[Dax Shepard]

He wanted to be silly with somebody.

[Cher]

Yes, he did. And so then I got kicked out. So I went next door to tell him because I was very forlorn. And we were best friends by that time. Well, not best, but we were good. He said, will you come move in with me? And I was like, okay, good. Okay.

[Erin Weekley]

What?

[Cher]

And then he said, I have single beds. To tell you the truth, I don't find you particularly attractive.

[Monica Padman]

Wow. He said that he was also 27.

[Dax Shepard]

And she was 16.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, okay.

[Cher]

So he didn't know that.

[Dax Shepard]

He thought you were, what, 19?

[Cher]

18 was my number.

[Monica Padman]

Did you feel safer, in quotes, knowing that he didn't find you attractive? Like, oh, yeah, we're just friends, and it can be easy.

[Cher]

I don't know if I felt safer, but I felt safe with him because that's the way he was. You know, he was very protective, but not just of me. Like, he was a good friend to all these guys. And it says in the book, the night that I was in this club, I had my back to the door. And when he walked in, I noticed that everyone's going, son. Hey, Sonny, come and sit with us. Hey, Sonny, come and sit with us. Son. Son, come sit with us. And I'm thinking, who in God's name is behind me? And I turn around, it was Maria and.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, Tony.

[Kristen Bell]

And Maria.

[Cher]

Yeah, Tony and Maria. Right. Right. Thank you. See, I knew you should be here.

[Erin Weekley]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

[Dax Shepard]

We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart, not checking which platform you watch that new show on. So frustrating. Fifteen minutes later, you've logged into seven apps, reset two passwords, and still haven't found it. Yeah, checking first is smart, so check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. We are supported by Inuit TurboTax. You know that feeling when you drop your taxes off with somebody and then nothing? You're just sitting there wondering if they've even started, if there's a problem. If you're getting everything you're owed, it's like sending your car to the shop and never getting an update. That's what I appreciate about TurboTax full service. They've completely flipped that experience. You get matched with a dedicated tax expert who actually does your taxes for you.

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You.

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[Cher]

So everyone just disappeared.

[Dax Shepard]

How long were you living together before it got blurry.

[Cher]

It got way blurry when my mom came in and found his shorts next to the tea bags.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, sure. She was like, what's happening here?

[Cher]

I would say, mom, if you're gonna come over, just call me before. I wanna make sure the house is clean. And then I lost most of his clothes because when she was coming over, I threw them in my girlfriend's. She left her window open. I just threw them through the window.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Cher]

And Sonny came down. He said, cher, my shorts, my underwear is all over the bushes over there. What are you doing?

[Dax Shepard]

And he was working for Phil Spector. And for people who are not aware of Phil Spector, a lot of people won't be. He was a titan in the 60s music. He invented this wall of sound recording technique. He was a God. He just produced so many hit records.

[Cher]

He made the Wrecking Group.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And so Sonny was working for him. And you start kind of stopping by the recording studio.

[Cher]

That's not exactly true. I had met Philip before with his best friend. And I walked in and sat down, and he asked me in French, would I go to bed with him.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Cher]

And so I knew the answer, and I said, for money.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, nice.

[Cher]

And then when I had to be with Sonny, I had to kind of say, sonny, I met him. I know him. He doesn't like me. So anyway, but. But finally he said to Sonny, I'll bring her. So he brought me. And Philip and I had a really weird relationship.

[Dax Shepard]

Can I just tell people? Also, in addition to him being a pioneer in sound, he also got convicted for murdering Sonny.

[Cher]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

For people who don't know the end of the Phil Spector story. Yeah, yeah. That was in the 90s maybe. But did you get a creepy vibe from him or. No, he was an eccentric man, but could you see that it was weirder than that?

[Cher]

No, he was really eccentric. He could be funny. He could be kind of scary. No, never that. I was never gonna take shit from him. And Sonny used to say, cher, he's my boss. Please stop. And I went, yeah, well, I don't give a shit.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, right, right, right, right.

[Monica Padman]

So you had a weird relationship with him.

[Cher]

Yeah. I don't know where I got this chutzpah, because I should have been nervous and frightened because everybody else was.

[Monica Padman]

But he probably liked that. That you were the only person not doing that.

[Cher]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

It's also because you've been trained on, like, 65 different stepdads. You had to adjust all these different people with big personalities.

[Cher]

He tried. If someone says that as their first. First sentence to you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Cher]

And you say the sentence back, which he was shocked.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. How much.

[Cher]

Then you can't really take being frightened serious.

[Dax Shepard]

But you end up singing background on some songs that become hits because Sonny.

[Cher]

Had told him, you know, Cher sings. If someone tells you, someone sings, it's like, oh, God.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cher]

You know. Yeah, okay, fine. Darlene and I were talking about this not long ago. So Darlene, her car broke down, and Philip said. Sonny said, you sing. Go in there. I wanted to tell him what my credentials were, but I didn't have any. And so I went in and I started. That was being my baby. And I kept going until after the Christmas album.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Huge hit song. Having not planned on that and that happening. Were you so tickled by that turn of events? Were you, like, excited when you'd hear your song come on the radio?

[Cher]

Well, the first one I did was that. And the last one is, you've lost that loving feeling. And I was the last girl I'm thinking of. I was the only girl.

[Dax Shepard]

Was it so exciting?

[Cher]

Yeah. We were all sitting in the booth, and when Bill finished it, nobody could kind of breathe. It was like, ah.

[Dax Shepard]

So then you and Sonny record some songs.

[Cher]

Yeah. Nothing.

[Dax Shepard]

Crickets. How do you end up meeting the Rolling Stones? And how do they tell you, you know, what you guys should do is you should go to England. You and Sonny.

[Cher]

Sonny and Jack Nitsche met them, and they didn't like being here so much because of the way that the older people, the heads of the studios, they didn't understand it. Bobcat vests and big elephant bell bottoms. And people were wearing suits and dresses, you know, little short dresses, but above the knee, not short.

[Dax Shepard]

This whole bohemian kind of style wasn't accepted.

[Cher]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

So you go to England and you guys become quite famous overnight. Because you arrive and you get thrown out of the hotel as you arrive. And it's all captured in the media, and that makes you guys an overnight sensation.

[Monica Padman]

Why'd you get thrown out?

[Dax Shepard]

They're closed.

[Cher]

Because our clothes, the way we looked.

[Kristen Bell]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

It's so funny because you see them now and you're like, oh, yeah, that looks exactly like it's supposed to.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But the notion that you guys were getting thrown out for how you looked.

[Monica Padman]

Is pretty because you were right.

[Cher]

Because nobody looked as strange as we did, we left as nobodies and came back to America. I think 5,000 people were at the.

[Dax Shepard]

Airport because I Got you, Babe had come out by that point.

[Cher]

I Got you, Babe came out in Europe, in England. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

In 65.

[Cher]

By the time we got back home, it was a huge hit.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

And so then why did it sour? Because you get your first kind of Valley between 65 and 71. There's the six years where you have this pretty big success, and then you gotta go back to the drawing board.

[Cher]

It had passed us by at that time. We didn't really grow with the people, and everybody was doing drugs. Everybody was talking about doing drugs, and we didn't do well. I didn't do drugs. Sonny was a little iffy.

[Dax Shepard]

The counterculture was taking over.

[Cher]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So at that point, Sonny basically redesigns you guys.

[Cher]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you thinking, well, the ride's over. Were you quick to give up, or did you have the same optimism that Sonny did?

[Cher]

I did not have the same optimism. What Faith. Because he said, give me two years and we'll be more famous than we ever were before.

[Dax Shepard]

Which is crazy. And you guys developed more of a lounge act in the wake of this. Right.

[Cher]

It was an accident. We went just to sing, but the people didn't like us and were so disrespectful that I just started making jokes for the band.

[Dax Shepard]

And through that, you discovered.

[Cher]

Oh, no, Sonny discovered.

[Dax Shepard]

You're quite funny. Yeah.

[Cher]

Sonny knew what the pulse was and he knew what to bet on, so he encouraged it. Not at home, not any place else. Just on stage.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And there's this other weird dynamic people might not know about is that Sonny never wanted to perform. Really. He wanted you to be a star and he wanted to produce your music, and you very much had stage fright and wanted him present so you'd feel comfortable.

[Cher]

I still get it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. You have it here. That's why Kristen's sitting right there.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

She's acting like Sonny.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Sonny Bell. So once you do the Sonny and Cher show, which, again, comes out of this lounge routine you're doing, and Sonny goes back to the drawing board, and he does. He cracks it. I think this would blow people's mind, that, and cher was getting 30 million viewers a week.

[Monica Padman]

That's insane.

[Dax Shepard]

There's not a show on TV that even is 1/10 of that anymore.

[Monica Padman]

And you're together at this point, right?

[Cher]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And you are, like, very deeply connected.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, this is when I guess it's been happening before. But this is when now this kind of new side of Sunny comes out, which is, like, incredibly controlling. You have this huge success. There's a lot of money. You're not allowed to leave the house. You're allowed to go shopping. That's pretty much all you're allowed to do, right?

[Cher]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And he's cutting you off from friendships. You have this side of him. Was it happening slowly? Was it more like you woke up one day and were like, oh, I don't have a life? Or while it was happening, were you like, what's going on? Was it something that occurred to you late?

[Cher]

It took a little while. I couldn't do anything. Jodi was our friend and our manager and also in the Mafia. But I wanted to do something, and I just said, I'll learn how to play tennis. So I was going there, and I was having the best time. Jod went with me to pick out my clothes, and then I'm going with this lady every couple of days. And then one day I'm leaving, but she's having a huge party, so there are people coming in. And so Dennis, my friend, told Sonny that I was there, but lots of people were there and lots of men were there, and he burned my clothes.

[Dax Shepard]

In the fireplace or in the yard. Yard's more dramatic.

[Monica Padman]

Was he giving excuses at first for why you should stay in the house? Was it a slow burn of, you should stay in because you're too famous now? What was he saying?

[Cher]

I think it came on kind of slowly because also when we started Sonny and Cher's show, I was free on the show, and he was funny, and we got along. It's such a strange dichotomy, because we would be laughing and we'd be having the best time, and then when we were at home, it was kind of more cut and dried.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He had lots of other girlfriends I.

[Cher]

Didn'T know, except the one in the.

[Dax Shepard]

Middle of the night, you go to get a glass of water, and there's a young woman putting her boots on in the house.

[Cher]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you thinking of how to get out of it?

[Cher]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you underwhelmed with, like, wow, I have a hit show and we're making tons of money, and I'm not very happy. Were you having, like, where's the joy?

[Cher]

It wasn't that because I was so happy with the show, and he was so nice on their show, and so. So at the show, we would be having the best time, and we were more working than we were at home.

[Dax Shepard]

So had you not had the show you might have started questioning the whole relationship, but it worked so well there that you're like, well, it works. Do you think this was an old fashioned, masculine, Italian, macho ownership over you?

[Cher]

When he took my money, I said, why did you do this? And he said, because I always knew you were gonna go. He started smoking cigars, and I knew it was over.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you said that. Why is that? What is that indicative of?

[Cher]

Because, like, business men smoke cigars.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I'm wondering. There's this pretty well worn track with y', all, which is men are attracted to your sparkliness, and then they're with you, and then they're super threatened by your sparkliness. So that's what's a mystery to me, is, like, he didn't have any interest in you, but yet he was very jealous and didn't want anyone else to have have you. Do you think he was protecting his financial interests or his heart interest?

[Cher]

No, not his heart interest by that time.

[Dax Shepard]

So it's just more like you were his whole business and he wanted to keep you just doing that business.

[Cher]

And also, he couldn't do it without me, clearly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You did it without him, as it turned out.

[Cher]

But also, we had fun. It was such a polar opposites, because on stage, we had a blast. He let me have all the freedom that I wanted to, and then we came home. The show kept us together a lot longer than we would have been anyway because we had such a good time. He was so fun and he was so funny, and we worked so well together.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, he played a bit of a beta role on the show, but then in real life, he wanted to be very alpha.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah. Maybe he felt emasculated in the show, and so he had to compensate at home.

[Cher]

When he found his place, when he found what he was good at, he was really funny. And actually, the people liked him more than me.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know about that.

[Dax Shepard]

I get it. You were the more powerful of the girls. More of like an underdoggy on the monologues.

[Cher]

I just cut him to ribbons. But then he found this kind of nebbish, funny guy, and everyone loved him, and they were drawn to me.

[Dax Shepard]

You're touring like crazy when you're not doing the show. The marriage, it's not great. And at some point, you become friends with David Geffen. He enters your life.

[Cher]

Oh, no, no. I met him at Lou Edler's Christmas party.

[Dax Shepard]

There it is. We got it.

[Cher]

Good job.

[Dax Shepard]

Met him at the Christmas party, and at some point, he Says, can I read your contract?

[Cher]

Bill was way before David.

[Dax Shepard]

Bill's the guitarist in the band. Yes.

[Cher]

The guts from I don't even know where, because everyone was terrified of Sunday.

[Dax Shepard]

You're in Vegas doing shows. You have to do a bunch of shows, and you finally had enough, you're done, and you've not confided to anybody what you're going through.

[Cher]

My friend Paulette knew, but everybody was really frightened of Sonny, and I was thinking about jumping off the balcony.

[Dax Shepard]

And you confided in the guitarist of the band.

[Cher]

One night, I just went to the band's room after the show, which Sonny.

[Dax Shepard]

Did not want you doing that.

[Cher]

Are you kidding me?

[Monica Padman]

He didn't want you doing anything.

[Cher]

He didn't want me to do anything.

[Dax Shepard]

I want you to go on Pl. Like, go into a room and just shut down until the next performance.

[Cher]

No, he had a kidney stone. And I got to go to the movies with my friends.

[Dax Shepard]

And you were so excited.

[Cher]

He had a kidney stone. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

So excited.

[Monica Padman]

Did you ever think what. What's happened to me?

[Cher]

No. I mean, if you're 16 and someone's 27, and you don't know what you are doing, and then all of a sudden you're singing with Philip. And Sonny was nice, then Sunny was nice for a really long time, and then not so nice.

[Dax Shepard]

So you confide in this bandmate, and then, yeah, you just use him a little bit as like, okay, I'm gonna wiggle out.

[Cher]

He said, everyone wants to know, why do you live this way?

[Dax Shepard]

Did that feel like reality just shattered?

[Cher]

I mean, I knew it was obvious to Paulette, but I wasn't allowed to talk to the band, so I didn't realize that they knew.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And now you're saying, I'm leaving this. This residency, like, I'm not gonna perform. That became your trump card that night.

[Cher]

It was crazy. Sonny said, are you crazy? Do you know what you're doing? He said, you need to come back to the room. And I said, you know what? Bill wants to come with me. It was just crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

It was the breaking point.

[Cher]

I hadn't eaten in days. I wasn't even 98 pounds. No, no. I couldn't.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you were just soaked in, fighting.

[Cher]

You know, it's just like, crazy. Bill comes up, and he was 22. I was 25. And then the second time, he said, why do you live this way? And I said, I don't know. I mean, I can't do it anymore. I don't know what I'm going to do. So Sonny Said, come back up to this room now. And I said, I'm going to bring Ben. I went from one kind of person just flipped over that night. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Did a 180. But he was so business minded, Sonny, that he knew best to salvage the business. Like, once he recognized, oh, you might be deserting this business, he came to the table in a way that was like, okay, I'm gonna let you move to Malibu. The concession started also.

[Cher]

I didn't know how powerful I was at all.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right, right, right.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So the ball has started rolling, but it's not until Geffen looks at this contract and says to you do you realize 100% of this money goes to a company called Share Inc. That is owned 95% by Sonny and 5% by his lawyer.

[Cher]

Ugh.

[Monica Padman]

Zero percent for Cher.

[Dax Shepard]

Zero percent.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's been generating.

[Cher]

It was like Born Yesterday. Because they would bring me a bunch of Share Enterprises contracts to sign, and it was always when I was getting ready to go on st. Yeah, what.

[Dax Shepard]

Are you going to read? 20 pages of legalese and I'm not.

[Cher]

Going to read anyway.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cher]

And then the next day, he said, you got to get out of this. So I went to Sonny and I said, I'll stay if we're partners. And he said, no.

[Monica Padman]

So stupid.

[Dax Shepard]

What a dumbass. On top of everything else.

[Cher]

Yeah, but he wasn't used to it. And he hated David. I mean, he hated him with a vengeance. I'm sure none of the others.

[Dax Shepard]

But David, you had Stockholm syndrome to some degree. You know, you were living with kind of a captor.

[Cher]

I guess so he was push and pull kind of. I mean, he never hit me. He never did anything like that. And he would be really nice, and we were working most of the time.

[Dax Shepard]

He'd buy you things and seemingly spoil you.

[Cher]

Yes, all kinds of shit.

[Dax Shepard]

And you were moving to nicer and nicer houses, so it was working.

[Monica Padman]

But that is the cycle of abuse we know now is love bombing mixed with hyper control.

[Cher]

He used to buy me really expensive presents, but it wasn't for me so much. It was to show people that he spoiled you.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that was a big, big shot.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so you guys get divorced. I also think it's really interesting you did reach out to Lucy Arnaz. I love Lucy. And for people who don't know that history, she too was in business with her husband on a show.

[Cher]

And my mom was on that show.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, she was. She acted on it.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

What did Lucy say? And she had Had a similar situation with Desi. He was controlling and he had screwed her out of a bunch of money.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And what'd she say to you?

[Cher]

Fuck him.

[Dax Shepard]

Get to gettin.

[Cher]

No, no, she said, fuck him. You're the talented one.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Were you, like, able to take that in? When she said, you're the talented one, Were you able to really be like, actually, I am.

[Dax Shepard]

To own.

[Cher]

That gave me a lot of courage. And David was there. I couldn't have done it without David.

[Dax Shepard]

You then go on to record in 71. Gypsies, tramps and thieves Half breed, Dark lady the music career is starting to now work. And then how do we get into Silkwood? Was it calculated or did it kind of come about?

[Cher]

No, I have never calculated anything. I've just been lucky. I went to Mike Nichols once for an audition and he said, cher, there are two kinds of women, and you're not the one I want for this. And I said to him, you know, I'm talented. And one day you're going to be really upset. You're going to be sorry. So I'm doing Come Back to the Five and Dime. So he came to the matinee, and then he came backstage and he said, you're right, you're talented. And I'm really sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

Really.

[Cher]

And he said, how would you like to make a movie with Meryl Streep? And I said, okay, that sounds good.

[Dax Shepard]

That sounds right. I fall in love with you from Mask. I think Mask is such a special movie.

[Cher]

It was. And I had such a horrible time with Peter. Was terrible. The worst experience I ever had.

[Dax Shepard]

Bagdanovich.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

He was directing. I don't even think I knew that. Why? Because he has a thing with his actresses.

[Cher]

He didn't like me from the get go. I don't know how I got hired, but I guess he saw that I would be good at it. But he didn't like me. He didn't really like the characters. He was an Ascot kind of guy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And this is about a biker family.

[Cher]

He knew enough to. But he didn't like the people and he didn't like me at all, really.

[Dax Shepard]

And how would that present itself? Would he make you do millions of takes?

[Cher]

Would he say condescending, I'll give you one story. We're doing a big scene in the kitchen. So he said, where do you think it would be good to do this tomorrow? And I said, we've been in the kitchen all day. Maybe we should go into the little dining room thing. He said, okay. And Then the next morning, he comes into me. He was eating an egg sandwich. That's the thing. I can.

[Dax Shepard]

Focal point of the experience.

[Cher]

It's the grounding of that experience. And he just started, you know, I don't know who you think you are. You're not gonna tell me where to. It was crazy. Then we're doing the scene, and Peter comes up to give me a direction, and he puts his hand on the back of my shoulder, and I said, take it off. Don't ever touch me again.

[Monica Padman]

Good for you.

[Dax Shepard]

It was over.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You're phenomenal in that movie. You're so good. Good. The other movie I wanted to ask you about because I'm so obsessed with him, but what was happening on Moonstruck with you and Nicolas Cage? That feels like the pairing of a lifetime.

[Cher]

Well, you know, they don't want him in the beginning because they wanted Peter Gallagher, who I love, but he wasn't right. And I had seen Nikki in Peggy Sue. Got married.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cher]

And I knew he was the only one to play it. And then they said no, and I quit.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. So you were the one pushing for Nick Cage?

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you know him prior to making it?

[Cher]

I didn't know him. I just knew that only he could do it. I mean, can you see anybody else saying, chrissy, give me the big knife?

[Dax Shepard]

No. But I'm his number one fan, so he does no wrong, in my opinion. I think he's the most exciting actor to watch alive. He had to have had a crush on you. Yeah. In real life? I don't know. Know. I think so.

[Cher]

I don't remember. I don't think so.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't think so?

[Cher]

No, I don't know. I don't know. I had a boyfriend.

[Monica Padman]

It doesn't stop people from having crushes.

[Cher]

Yeah, I know.

[Dax Shepard]

While you were in this big chunk, you're having tremendous success as an actor. Do you want to resume singing, or are you like, this is great. I like doing this. I like doing movies. It's less exhausting. I'm not on the road.

[Cher]

I didn't really have any cachet as a singer so much. Also, the songs, they were so formulaic, you know, gypsies and whatever, so people didn't want to know me.

[Dax Shepard]

Truthfully, what gets you back in the ring as a singer? Because in 87, which is same year as Moonstruck, you released Cher, so you're back at it. What prompted that?

[Cher]

I don't know. You work.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, if you go, who cares? You're on the verge of going?

[Cher]

No. I mean, I fucking cares.

[Monica Padman]

You had to.

[Cher]

No, I was signed up the company.

[Kristen Bell]

Okay, you were under contract?

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

When you have now an explosion of success with your music career in the late 80s, does that come as a surprise to you?

[Cher]

Things in my life just stop. It's like you're this and then you're new and improved. You've reinvented yourself. So I went on the road. I went to the Elephants graveyard. I went to Las Vegas and had a residency.

[Dax Shepard]

So you liked the residencies?

[Cher]

Yes, but I felt bad because people were making fun of me.

[Monica Padman]

They were.

[Cher]

Everybody, not me.

[Kristen Bell]

I came to see you in your residency.

[Cher]

Shares in the elephant's graveyard because that's where you went. But also, I had to make money.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you made a ton of money. Turns out Sonny, you know, was an idiot. Yeah, he didn't make a lot of money. But you went on to make a lot of money.

[Cher]

But he had my $11 million.

[Monica Padman]

Ay, did that drive you nuts?

[Cher]

I just couldn't believe it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yet said that at the time, you guys were trying to divide up $24 million in assets, which today is 175 million. Like you guys fucking made some money. And you didn't walk with half of that is what you're saying.

[Cher]

I didn't walk with any of it.

[Dax Shepard]

None of it. So he won that.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But then you got the last laugh. 100 million albums. Your tour that you went on in 2002-2005 was the highest grossing tour of any female singer of all time. Time. Now just Taylor's taking the time to.

[Cher]

Say, I never got to that. I mean, people didn't get to that.

[Dax Shepard]

Your tour made $250 million 20 years ago. So that's pretty massive.

[Monica Padman]

Pretty dang good.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

[Cher]

Also, I have never had luck with men and money. It seems like I'm a target. And there's so many ways to do that with record companies.

[Dax Shepard]

So you feel like you've gotten screwed more than once.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And what do you think that's about?

[Cher]

I think it was a big thing with women in those days. I mean, look, a lot of men were getting screwed. Black men, black reformers especially.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, there's some horrendous Motown stories.

[Cher]

That's another thing you come from nothing they rightly assess.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, they'll be fine with this.

[Cher]

Yeah. And my managers at that point were taking so much, and my business manager, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so. So when you had this massive success, round two as a singer how did you decide what you're gonna do next? How did you decide? Do I do movies or do I continue with this music? What am I supposed to be focusing on? How were you deciding that?

[Cher]

Things come up.

[Dax Shepard]

They just present themselves and you say yes or no, but you were never kind of thinking, well, I haven't been in a movie in a while. I need to duck back in and just make sure.

[Monica Padman]

No strategy.

[Cher]

No, just things come your way. I've been lucky. I've been a combination, but more lucky than not. I honestly believe this. There are people so much more talented than me, but I'm lucky too. You have to have a certain amount of luck in this business.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Okay, my last question is.

[Cher]

Oh, I didn't think it would ever end.

[Dax Shepard]

I know, I know, I know. It's grueling and we appreciate you.

[Monica Padman]

We do.

[Dax Shepard]

Other than Geffen, have you ever had a man that you deserve?

[Cher]

I had two.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, good.

[Monica Padman]

That's good.

[Dax Shepard]

I would be sad if you didn't feel like it.

[Monica Padman]

If it was zero.

[Dax Shepard]

Several of these you did not deserve.

[Cher]

Well, Bill, Yes. Gregory is a double edged sword because he was a kind, fun, talented man that was a drug addict. When we had great times, he was very human and exceptional. And when he was doing drugs, he left. I mean, he would go away and then he'd come back.

[Dax Shepard]

Is that the hardest way to end a relationship? Where it's like the thing that's gonna keep you guys apart isn't even an issue between you, it's an issue between him and something else. That's gotta be the hardest to swallow.

[Cher]

It took me a long time. And Robert was a wonderful person. He still is. We still talk to each other. And Alexander is a wonderful person.

[Dax Shepard]

That's your current boyfriend?

[Cher]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

With the six year old.

[Monica Padman]

We're including him in the two, I hope. The two you deserve.

[Cher]

Yeah, we are, we are, we are. And David was wonderful, too.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you guys keep a friendship over the years? Because it feels like a special. You and Geffen.

[Cher]

Yeah. And Robert.

[Dax Shepard]

You were friendly with everyone, huh? Even Sonny?

[Cher]

Kind of. Well, you know. Yeah. Not with his wife.

[Dax Shepard]

That didn't go well?

[Cher]

No, because she's trying to take all my money.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. She already got more than she should have to begin with.

[Cher]

Yeah. Well, Sierra, it's been fascinating.

[Dax Shepard]

I think you're such an attractive, badass, sparkly person.

[Monica Padman]

We're lucky to have you.

[Dax Shepard]

I like the combo of tough and fragile. Yeah, it's very appealing if you have.

[Cher]

To deal with it. Sometimes it's not so Much fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Have you ever joined a marriage? You tried that yet? Where you join an existing marriage?

[Monica Padman]

He's offering you to join their marriage.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I swing through.

[Erin Weekley]

True.

[Monica Padman]

This will be your emotional support marriage.

[Dax Shepard]

She'll move in with you. She just wants me to get the fuck out of the picture.

[Monica Padman]

I think Kristen will be a third. You deserve.

[Cher]

No, not even.

[Dax Shepard]

Not even. Well, shir, again, I'm incredibly grateful that you came all the way out here to see us. I love your book and I proselytize about it. I think it's phenomenal. I think it'll blow people's mind. It's so honest.

[Cher]

I have a question. What's the most thing that you love?

[Dax Shepard]

You are not going to be destroyed or dominated by unfortunate events. There's no self pity in your story, even though you're entitled to a lot of it. And I like that. And I actually think that's a pretty good message for younger people to be reading currently.

[Cher]

True. But it's like I have to work at this all the time because I'm fragile as my mom. I'm fragile as people in my family. So I am always trying to remember who I am, who I am innately. But sometimes it's a struggle.

[Dax Shepard]

You say things like this in the book. I almost got my ass kicked for being a pussy. I love it. Yeah. I wrote down I don't know where I got the balls. Like there's no trails. Straight shooter.

[Monica Padman]

Straight shooter.

[Dax Shepard]

I almost got my ass kicked for being a pussy.

[Cher]

Sounds like my mom.

[Dax Shepard]

This is not what you're gonna read from like a brand new movie star right now.

[Kristen Bell]

It definitely sounds like the way you chat.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's authentic. That's what's so attractive.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a pressure on people to have dealt with their own trauma in a very accepted way. And I like when people don't deal with their trauma that way. Mine was active like yours was. There was violence, there was addiction. Couldn't be more grateful. Ultimately, I'm in this house with this woman and these two kids. I wouldn't change a thing. Right. It's golden.

[Cher]

Definitely the better half.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cher]

I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

I also think it's really helpful for people to. Who know you as Cher and who's so strong and. Sorry. Iconic. And also know that you were controlled, that you were in positions that you shouldn't have been in. It's helpful for people. Cause I think they think, oh, she's so strong and she just. Whatever. It's good to hear. There was hard Stuff along the way. I think that's helpful.

[Cher]

This is how I think of myself. I thought of myself as a bumper car. And you hit the wall, and you either hit the wall and stayed there, or you hit the wall and come back and you go that way.

[Dax Shepard]

Who would you like to see Kristen with if you got to pick from every available bachelor? Oh, they don't even have to be available. They can be some taken ones if you want. Who would be your dream partner for her? Cause I know you think she could do better, and I don't disagree. Who would be your pick? I don't know. Brad Pitt, maybe.

[Kristen Bell]

He's self deprecating. Right now.

[Dax Shepard]

I just want to know who she thinks your dream catch would be. There's some people I have that I think are good.

[Monica Padman]

You've never thought about that? No, she just. I just.

[Dax Shepard]

She's just not sold yet on me.

[Kristen Bell]

She's not sold yet. Well, you don't have the relationship.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't have the talent of either of you guys. So, I mean, that part is.

[Cher]

No, but the truth is, I trust her. So you must have something that I don't see.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. There you go.

[Monica Padman]

We're pulling that clip, by the way. That's incredible.

[Dax Shepard]

That's incredible.

[Monica Padman]

But Reese Witherspoon said that too. She said there's something about a smart, strong, awesome, funny woman. If they're with a man, you're like, there must be something to that man.

[Cher]

Absolutely there is.

[Kristen Bell]

There's a lot to this man, right?

[Dax Shepard]

He's tall. No. I'll tell you the thing that you should like about me, okay? I'm not threatened by her shining. I love it. The shinier she gets, the better.

[Cher]

Alexander is that way, too. The more I shine, the more he.

[Monica Padman]

Has one that's beautiful. Guys who polish.

[Dax Shepard]

So that's my offering.

[Kristen Bell]

I would say guys who polish you so you shine more. You sometimes tease me. You know what I do is I have my burlesque wigs still on a head, and I have one of those sticky things in the closet. And sometimes I go in there because it's a very expensive wig. I brush it, and Dex goes, you.

[Cher]

Playing with your dog? Did Renata make it?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, of course.

[Dax Shepard]

Don't be silly.

[Cher]

It's a very expensive wig. Yeah. And I always say, she's playing with her $5000.

[Kristen Bell]

Oh, yeah. I say five to seven, for sure. 27,000 lace, front, fitted.

[Cher]

She was the best one that ever lived.

[Monica Padman]

So that's awesome.

[Dax Shepard]

And you gotta comb it. You gotta once every.

[Kristen Bell]

You have to Check in with yours.

[Cher]

Six months.

[Dax Shepard]

You gotta go in there and spend some time combing.

[Kristen Bell]

Yeah, play with your doll.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, play with your do. Well, Cher, I adore you. And I understand. Nobody's good enough for her. And I expect that to be. Trust me.

[Kristen Bell]

He's a slow burn, but you're gonna.

[Cher]

Learn to love him.

[Kristen Bell]

Yes. Almost too good for me.

[Cher]

And you seem like a good dad.

[Kristen Bell]

He's the best dad there ever was. That's not a show.

[Dax Shepard]

That was the first hug I had given my daughter in two years.

[Monica Padman]

That's not true.

[Dax Shepard]

Just cause you were here. I wanted to impress you and you haven't even seen me with my shirt off yet. Which you'll see on the way out.

[Kristen Bell]

That's pretty premium as well.

[Dax Shepard]

All right. I adore you. Thanks for making the time.

[Cher]

Okay, thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

So I'll get you on the next one one.

[Erin Weekley]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

[Dax Shepard]

I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode. But we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. You know what's really funny about this studio?

[Monica Padman]

What?

[Dax Shepard]

It's almost the exact same size, but we are about 18 inches further apart than we are in LA. Can you feel that? That or no, Weirdly, like you're dista.

[Cher]

Really?

[Monica Padman]

Can you even see me?

[Dax Shepard]

I can't. That's what I was. Let me put my glasses on. They're reading glasses, so they're the opposite.

[Monica Padman]

Don't put your glasses on because, you know, I feel like I look better when I look fuzzy.

[Dax Shepard]

Better from afar. I look best from afar.

[Monica Padman]

Happy birthday.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, thank you.

[Monica Padman]

It's my friend's birthday today.

[Cher]

It is?

[Dax Shepard]

It's not a very fun age.

[Monica Padman]

No, it's a good age.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, just. There's a landmark. 50.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Which we had. That's over. No more 50s.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

And then 51 is just like.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, but okay. I was talking to. I don't remember who about this, but they were saying that there's kind of a mental trick where you feel you should feel kind of young when you're at the early stage of the decade. So like 51, 52, you're young.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. When you're 54 is when we gotta start song. Sounding the alarm. Probably.

[Monica Padman]

No, like 57. Okay, okay, okay. But it works in all decades. So like right now I'm 38. So I'm like feeling old. Yes, but I'm about to feel young.

[Dax Shepard]

You're about to be a young 40 year old.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Boom.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Optimism.

[Dax Shepard]

What are your thoughts about turning 40?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's weird because a lot of my friends from home, from Georgia, who I, you know, is of my class, are. Are turning 40 this year. Not me, though.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you a year younger than everyone?

[Monica Padman]

Well, I was born in August, and I started kindergarten when I was 4.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my goodness.

[Monica Padman]

Wonderkind.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you are wonderkin. But you turned 39 in August.

[Monica Padman]

I do.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So you got a year and eight months.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, I have time, but I feel.

[Dax Shepard]

From my perspective, 40 feels great. Yeah, 40 sounds wonderful.

[Monica Padman]

The only thing of course that is a little scary is kids. I just saw on Instagram this woman's pregnant. She's 45.

[Dax Shepard]

71.

[Monica Padman]

She's the ripe age. She's in her early 70s.

[Dax Shepard]

Early.

[Monica Padman]

So she's young.

[Dax Shepard]

I was just telling the girls on our vacation, we were kind of. Well, a. Delta was saying how she can't wait to have a baby.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Which. Yeah, of course she's gonna really, really, really do it. Well.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. For people who don't know, our life is a traveling circus of Delta stuffies.

[Monica Padman]

Like, the.

[Dax Shepard]

The bulk of our luggage as a family is her stuffies. And now there's other. I've already forgotten the names of them.

[Monica Padman]

Liberty.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I know Liberty's name. There's a new class of toys that are these 3D printed things.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I know.

[Kristen Bell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Somehow she needs a lot of those.

[Monica Padman]

They're cute, though.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. But they're tiny and they get lost a lot.

[Monica Padman]

They're trinkets.

[Dax Shepard]

At least Groot. We have had. Like when we were trying to find Groot at the Monster Jam. Oh, you're like, okay, he's a foot and a half tall. You can get a APB on the guy.

[Monica Padman]

Yep, that's right.

[Dax Shepard]

All. All points bulletin. Guy's about two feet tall.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But this. These are microscopic. Anyways, there's that, and then. Do you know about fuggles?

[Monica Padman]

Well, I learned about fuglers because I took Delta on her shopping spree as we. That's our tradition for her birthday. And. And she wanted fuglers.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Fuckload of fuglers.

[Monica Padman]

I cannot. With these young. The young generation loves ugly.

[Dax Shepard]

But we. I did, too.

[Monica Padman]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. You didn't have that? Well, we had Garbage Pail Kids, and they were the most collectible thing of my whole youth.

[Monica Padman]

And they were ugly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It was like Fatsy Nancy, you know, These are bad. These are outdated. They're old. They're old Gay Mike. No, that wasn't one.

[Monica Padman]

But can you imagine?

[Dax Shepard]

But it could have been black suit era.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't know. It was the 80s.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no.

[Dax Shepard]

They were terrible. Do you. Do you not know? Do you know?

[Monica Padman]

I only know, like, maybe you've talked about them, but I don't. I didn't collect them or I don't really know about them.

[Dax Shepard]

That's probably the only thing I got obsessed with as a kid where it was like there was first edition, but by the time I got into them, they were already on second or third edition. So you really wanted these first edition ones? My cousin Jamie had all of them. He was pretty good at giving me doubles anyways.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that's nice.

[Dax Shepard]

Point of. All that is, is like, I look at these fugglers and for people who don't know what fuglers are, they're these little stuffed anim. Have like, human teeth in them. They're ugly.

[Cher]

They are.

[Dax Shepard]

But they're cute.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, literally, they're ugly. That. That stands for ugly.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, is that what ugly? Foglers.

[Monica Padman]

Fuglies from the movie Mean Girls.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And it's butt fucking ugly.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait, butt fucking ugly.

[Monica Padman]

I guess.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess I'm going to go with a competing brand called Buffuglies.

[Monica Padman]

And what are they going to have?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, those are butt fucking uglies.

[Monica Padman]

So is the butt human flesh?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, they're all, you know. We'll harvest. We'll harvest some human flesh.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I guess the original Fugler was a woman who made this little creature and put real teeth in it.

[Dax Shepard]

Real human teeth?

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

I wonder where she got those. Where does one get?

[Monica Padman]

So I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that she wanted to preserve her children's baby teeth. Oh, I've decided this. So she made this little creature to put the teeth in there. But then people loved it. Loved it. I guess. So now Fogler's at. But you by. They're not human teeth, but they look like human teeth.

[Dax Shepard]

This is probably one of these overnight. This person's probably a billionaire. I know, because we had to have all the fugglers and we got fuglers for everybody. Yeah. This episode was brought to you by Fuglers.

[Monica Padman]

Please sponsor us Fuglers.

[Dax Shepard]

Anyway, so she's saying she wants to have a baby. And I said, when do you think you'll have your first child? When you turn 18.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And I want to be supportive of whatever.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Of course. I want to plant any seeds that I'd be judgmental or whatever. And she said, what? No, 18. What do you think? I really. And I said, My guess is between 35 and 45 is when I think you'll have kids. I said, and I think if you want to, we'll freeze your eggs when you're 18. You know, like, wow, I'll pay for you to get your eggs frozen so you don't have to think about that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's lovely because your issue was.

[Dax Shepard]

Just when you started freezing eggs. Right. Like, had you started. Started at 14?

[Monica Padman]

Well, I think you might have to be on hormone before you even had your period.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

No, I don't know because I've never like looked.

[Dax Shepard]

You didn't look into it?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I didn't look into it. So maybe I always had a low count. I do think the earlier the better. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And I think, and look, acknowledging all lucky privilege, obviously this is an option for most people, but I think, think given where it's the, the, the trajectory.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It would make the most sense. Like, I think they're going to be wrestling with the same thing every woman is like, you're going to want to do your career or whatever the hell. So anyway, all to say, she was like, no, that's great. That's too old. No, again, she's 11, so that probably seems like 80.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But who. Yeah. Ouch.

[Dax Shepard]

She's thinking mid-20s.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Okay, that's fine.

[Dax Shepard]

Whatever.

[Monica Padman]

I think whatever she does is gonna be great.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, me too.

[Monica Padman]

But I do think she's underestimating what mid-20s feels like.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep, I think she is. And how much fun, particularly she'll be having.

[Monica Padman]

It's just so fun.

[Dax Shepard]

There won't be time for her to be in the house every night with the child.

[Monica Padman]

I was thinking about that sim like 8 minutes ago because I just arrived.

[Dax Shepard]

While we were recording.

[Cher]

8.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, 80 minutes ago because I just arrived in Nashville and came from the airport and I don't know why I was thinking this, but I moved to LA when I was 22.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And I, I never thought about that. I always think like, oh, I've been there 15 years or I've been there 16 years or whatever.

[Dax Shepard]

Imagine.

[Monica Padman]

And then I was like, oh my God, that was a big, big move. That's a big move.

[Dax Shepard]

22S are babies. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. If I know a 22 year old now and they say I'm gonna move across the country, I'd probably say, whoa, that's a big deal.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

So I, I was proud of myself.

[Dax Shepard]

You should be. Yeah, I, I know. I similarly. Hi, Sneakly. Come on, you can sit here.

[Monica Padman]

Hi, Aaron.

[Dax Shepard]

Jeff, can you Turn that other mic on. That's Jeff. So disappointingly about Jeff. He's from New Orleans, but he doesn't have a Cajun accent. Jeff. Jeff.

[Erin Weekley]

Sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was on the verge of boring him with the story. Do you remember Aaron, when you and I, we went to. Aaron and I went over Christmas, probably senior year, to. We just wanted warmth. We pulled out the Rand McNally map because there was no Internet.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And at the back of the Rand McNally map, it had a chart with monthly average temperatures for cities around the country.

[Erin Weekley]

I remember this now. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And we just looked in the warmest place in the entire graph in the contiguous US Was Corpus Christi or Corpus Christi, Texas. Yes. Yep. So we're like, let's go there. It'll be warm.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, boy.

[Dax Shepard]

We drove to Corpus Christi, Texas. We got there and we're like, what is this weird place?

[Erin Weekley]

It was like this pavement.

[Dax Shepard]

Have you ever been there?

[Monica Padman]

I don't think I've been.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Mind you, this was also 92 or 3. 92. So no restaurants, no coffee, nothing. It was a walking distance. Yeah, it was.

[Erin Weekley]

It was warm, wasn't it?

[Dax Shepard]

So we were in that city for a total cement and no business. I just remember sitting on the cement in front of the bank building, going like, what are we doing here? Like, we just drove for two days to get to this cement.

[Monica Padman]

But you still had fun because you guys are friends.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, then we got out the Rand McNally. Monica.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

We're like, what do we buy? And we were by Padre Islands, right across South Padre, the bridge from Corpus Christi. But I think we were at North Padre, South Padre, and we ended up on this section. There was Federal beach for, like, five miles, and, like, State beach for 10 miles. And you could drive on the beach. And we drove the car there. And this is where we had our. We brought Speedos with us. Micro brief underwears.

[Cher]

Sure.

[Erin Weekley]

You've seen the pictures?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Have I seen pics of us at.

[Dax Shepard]

The beach in our micro brief with our. We also have winter gloves on.

[Cher]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

I think you've seen it. Erin's posted it.

[Monica Padman]

We can post it.

[Erin Weekley]

For this episode, Alex is hitchhiking with a winner winter glove and a bikini bottom.

[Dax Shepard]

Little blue bikini bottom. I don't even know why we needed to do that stuff. Cause there was really no one there.

[Monica Padman]

I know, but that's how you guys have been operating your whole lives. It's just for each other. It's very pure.

[Dax Shepard]

Very pure.

[Erin Weekley]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

All to say, we then were there for a few days. We met the weirdest cast of characters who live on these beaches. And they go from the Federal beach to the state beach, back and forth. And they live there all year long, but you can only be there for 10 and five days respectively. So they move back and forth.

[Erin Weekley]

Volkswagen buses and whatnot.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Drinking all that kind of stuff. A jellyfish all over the beach. That popped when we drove. It was gross. That was memorable. Like, when you're driving wall to wall jellyfish. Ew.

[Erin Weekley]

And it's like the packaging bubbles you're.

[Dax Shepard]

Driving, they're like dead and inflated. I kind of want to do it again.

[Monica Padman]

Blood.

[Dax Shepard]

Nothing. We saw clear blood. Jellyfish. It's clear Pepsi. Then we were like, let's go to New Orleans.

[Cher]

The best. Ah.

[Dax Shepard]

We had never been. So we cross Alligator Alley. We're getting kind of close. Ish. Again. No Internet, no phones.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Go over to a gas station, ask a guy how to get to Bourbon Street. And I was in there for like 12 minutes and I came out and I got back in the car. And Aaron goes, did he tell you where to go? And I go, no idea what he said.

[Cher]

Sure.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you can understand.

[Dax Shepard]

12 minutes. Dining bear pass the right thing. Uh, over there. And yeah, I just came out, like, we gotta go to another gas station. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's such a unique place. I love it there. I haven't been. Oh, yeah, you do. You went in college. It was so fun.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm going, when to do the Isaacson's Tane. Remember did he asked me to come to his Tane book festival?

[Monica Padman]

Tane book festival?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I'm going.

[Monica Padman]

When is it?

[Dax Shepard]

I think in March.

[Monica Padman]

I want to go.

[Dax Shepard]

Go to the book festival.

[Monica Padman]

I love books.

[Dax Shepard]

You love them. You love to start books.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I do. I finished a book, though, over the break.

[Dax Shepard]

You did? Which one?

[Monica Padman]

It's called Heart the Lover.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

It's a very popular book right now. I bet Ruthie's read it.

[Erin Weekley]

Did you read it with your eyes or your ears?

[Monica Padman]

My eyes? Yes.

[Erin Weekley]

That's how Ruthie reads.

[Monica Padman]

I can't read with my ears. I'm deficient in that. But I finished it. It was really sad.

[Dax Shepard]

It was.

[Monica Padman]

And it made me feel melancholy for the holidays. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, okay.

[Monica Padman]

Just for.

[Dax Shepard]

Just what you want. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I did think when I finished, because last time I was home, I finished a book Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, which is my favorite book I've read in the past decade. And that also made me feel so melancholy.

[Dax Shepard]

It did.

[Monica Padman]

And then when I. When I finished Heart the Lover, I thought, this I shouldn't Read?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Well, you should read a different genre for sure.

[Monica Padman]

But reading has a way, like maybe.

[Dax Shepard]

A Jack Reacher book or Tom Clancy.

[Monica Padman]

I'm not that interesting.

[Erin Weekley]

Harbin Corlan. Wait, Harbin Corbin?

[Monica Padman]

Reese Witherspoon's partner?

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, they wrote her book together, but no, I think books are the medium that cuts the deepest.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can like, form your identity around.

[Monica Padman]

A book, not a movie exactly. Well, I did form my identity around a TV show and a movie, to be fair.

[Dax Shepard]

That's true. You were susceptible, though.

[Monica Padman]

I guess I get it. I'm just sensitive to art.

[Dax Shepard]

Was it you that was telling me most of your music you discover from TV shows? Yes. Yeah, Yeah. I do have to say one funny thing about my birthday before we move on.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Well, we don't have to move on.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, let's move on. It's already been indulgent, but Kristin had written me a birthday card that was on my sink when I woke up, which was lovely. Or after I meditated. And it said like, Happy 52nd birthday. And I thought, oh, that's kind of a funny bit. Just be off by one year. There's definitely a bit. And then I got into the interior of the card, what was written, and then we went back to being 52. And I was like, she definitely thinks I'm 52. Do. Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

Did she. Did she tell you?

[Dax Shepard]

We've since talked. Because then I read the whole thing. Then I got busy talking to a neighbor. Then I came back into the bathroom and she was in there at the time fixing the car, changing it to one. And I go, hun, did you. You got my birthday. You got my age wrong. And she's like, well, I did the math from 74. Oh, it's like a problem. Yeah, I was born in 75.

[Erin Weekley]

Your neighbors came over and I came over and met them and we were sitting there and they're like, oh, it's his birthday today. And I go, 51, baby. And Kristin goes, no, 52.

[Dax Shepard]

But by the way, I'm gonna drag her a little bit. Yeah. I mean, you would remember last year was my 50th.

[Cher]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

That's more my. If you like, if you can't keep 57, 56 straight, duh, I probably won't be able to either. But just last year was 50.

[Erin Weekley]

I thought she was doing a bit with me too.

[Monica Padman]

I was. I will say this. I. For some reason, that birthday party, like your roller skating party, feels like a really long time ago.

[Dax Shepard]

Does it?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Cher]

I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

Why? Because this year went by very fast, I think.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But a lot. I think a lot happened this year.

[Dax Shepard]

I did, too. And I'm having a lot of what you're explaining right now. There are many events. The. The award show season is the one right now where I'm like, we were just at these award shows with Kristen.

[Monica Padman]

Sure, sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Cause I guess probably Emmys is. And then. What is that?

[Monica Padman]

That's in the fall. That was sort of recently.

[Dax Shepard]

Is that in the fall?

[Monica Padman]

I think it's in, like, September.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So probably I'm getting a little confused by that.

[Cher]

So.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, there's all these different things where it's like, well, that feels like that was two months ago, yet then there's an event that was on the day before that does feel like two years ago.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I know. Time is also.

[Dax Shepard]

Time is very. Yeah, it's very topsy turvy that way.

[Monica Padman]

Can I tell you guys now that we're on the subject of the awards?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. So this will be out on Monday. Happy New year, everyone. Happy 2026.

[Dax Shepard]

Even year is going to be a good one.

[Monica Padman]

It's going to be a good year. I feel it. So we're going to the Golden Globes. So exciting.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Next Sunday.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, this Sunday.

[Dax Shepard]

This tomorrow.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And I've been on a real ride over this break, so I have. I've been really humbled.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

But humbled to the point where I just, like, I felt worthless.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Cher]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

So it's a real hot.

[Erin Weekley]

The ultimate hunger.

[Monica Padman]

It's a real.

[Dax Shepard]

The game you're playing. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It is a roller coaster because, of course, it's so incredible that we are nominated, that we're getting together.

[Dax Shepard]

It's done enough already happened.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. It's already incredible. First year podcasting. It's so special. It really is so special. I'm so proud of us. So I'm trying to get a stylist.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And I cannot get one. It's a busy night for the life of me. And I really started, like, I was like, oh, my God, I am so worth. I'm. I'm.

[Dax Shepard]

You're bottom of the barrel. Oh, you're. You went ugly.

[Monica Padman]

Of course. I'm like, I'm so ugly. No one even will, like, get near me.

[Dax Shepard]

What if that's some stylist did it? They like, they like of. Oh, no. They looked at pictures of the people.

[Monica Padman]

I think they might.

[Erin Weekley]

I think they'd rather sit home without a job that.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that was my point. I'm like, don't These people like money. I don't understand. This is a job, but I think there is a lot of politics and there is a lot of, like, busiest.

[Dax Shepard]

Night of the year for stylists, and.

[Monica Padman]

They already have clients, and they're already working with clients, and it's like, it's last minute and I get. That's what I'm being told. Yeah, okay. But in my heart.

[Dax Shepard]

But for me on the outside, I'm like, girl, this is your whole. This is like me hiring someone to tell me how to. What, motorcycle to ride to the Globes. What? No, I got that covered.

[Monica Padman]

I know. So that's okay. But that's also part of.

[Dax Shepard]

If there were anything you couldn't get help with, this would be my pick for you.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

But I, I, I did think, like. But, you know, it just got so big in my head. I was like, I have to look so good because I.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I care about fashion and I want people to say, like, oh, my God, she looks great. And a stylist does do some things I can't do, like tailor perfect. Like, they know things like that.

[Dax Shepard]

The finishing touches.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

The accoutrements, the accessories, the jewelries.

[Monica Padman]

At one point, I was like, I have a dress. I do. I have this vintage dress that I love and I think will be great.

[Dax Shepard]

I just had this incredible image of you. And do you remember when she dresses up et in that grammar outfit there, like, so much stuff. I just pictured you on the right card with, like, seven necklaces, three purses, a bunch of pearls, huge earrings, a crazy hat.

[Monica Padman]

I should do that. I should just throw in the D. You should look.

[Dax Shepard]

You should look up the picture and dress exactly like Grandma.

[Monica Padman]

I really should.

[Erin Weekley]

Oh, man.

[Monica Padman]

At least that would be funny. Like, anyway.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'll come in as the little boy in the, like, puffer jacket. He wore the whole movie. That would be cute.

[Cher]

That would be so cute.

[Dax Shepard]

I'll carry you in a milk crate, like, on the front of the bicycle. Well, we rolled up on the, the red carpet on bicycles, and you were in a milk crate dressed as that grandf. Oh, my God, that would be so great.

[Monica Padman]

Anyways, so. So now I'm going on my own, but not really so, so luckily, and this is truly a miracle.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

But it makes sense. So there's a designer that I love, an amazing designer, Brandon Maxwell. He is an armchair.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, thank God. Brandon. Thank God for Brandon.

[Monica Padman]

Thank God, because. So he had DM'd me, like, years ago and said, you know, he loved the show. And I could not believe it because he's amazing. And then he popped in my head. Of course, when all this was going on, I was like, should I just reach out directly? You're not really supposed to do that. You're like, these stylists go to the designers and then they, you know, it's a whole thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, sure.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, I. Well, I guess I have to. I got to hack the system. That's what I do in my life. Yeah, you got to just do. Just got to keep plowing forward. Exactly. So then I DM'd him and he said, I heard on the podcast, Congratulations. That's amazing. I was going to reach out to you. I'd be so honored.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Erin Weekley]

Oh, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And so he is going to provide me an incredible dress. It was just really. It was very. I felt like I really needed that little boost.

[Dax Shepard]

Send him et as an inspiration photo.

[Monica Padman]

I will. No, it makes sense, though, that it would of course be an arm cherry. That came through.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, of course, of course.

[Monica Padman]

Like how, like, that's what gave me all of this.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But I really went on a real Es.

[Dax Shepard]

Were these. Were these be. This was before Christmas or post Christmas?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, the whole time.

[Dax Shepard]

The whole Christmas. When did you hear from Brandon? This morning.

[Monica Padman]

Like three days ago.

[Dax Shepard]

Three days. So you've had a good three days. You're back.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I'm back.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. How was. Let's quickly go through a little bit of Christmas morning.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

In Georgia. How was it?

[Monica Padman]

It was really nice. My brother and his girlfriend.

[Dax Shepard]

You met your brother's girlfriend?

[Monica Padman]

I did, and she's lovely.

[Dax Shepard]

What's her name?

[Monica Padman]

Her name's Emily.

[Dax Shepard]

Emily.

[Monica Padman]

Shout out Emily. She's so good for my brother.

[Dax Shepard]

Uh huh.

[Monica Padman]

Um, you know, she's like, she's very cute. She's kind of. She's easy. Anyway, so, yeah, Christmas was lovely. What about you, Erin?

[Dax Shepard]

Did you get anything nice?

[Erin Weekley]

Yeah, yeah, I got a T shirt that said really great station.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, Ruthie got him merch. Official merch. Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

And I was, I was like, wow, this is actually the nicest T shirt I think I've ever had.

[Dax Shepard]

I agree. That one in particular, I put it.

[Erin Weekley]

On, I'm like, okay, now this is like next level.

[Monica Padman]

The quality's so good. I know.

[Erin Weekley]

And the color and the whole, you know, having had living in Georgia during that time, like, I was like, wow, this is like full circle.

[Monica Padman]

It is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I love it. I love that shirt. And as Murphy's Law would have it, I have two of them and both of them I've done where you get one of those weird oily stains on some of them.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

You did it already.

[Dax Shepard]

Up to both of them.

[Erin Weekley]

I'm positive you're gonna do it. I think that was my first worry when I put it on was I'm gonna do something to the. And I. Even when I was just grabbing two shirts to come here for two days, I didn't grab it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Erin Weekley]

I was thinking of all the eating we might be doing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, that's true.

[Erin Weekley]

But instead I'm wearing a. A white shirt. Like, I don't care about that.

[Dax Shepard]

We can throw that in the trash. Right?

[Erin Weekley]

I mean, that is true.

[Dax Shepard]

But like, I'm always. When I put it on, I'm trying to evaluate do I care when people have a little oil stain on their. Like, I'm just. I can't decide if it's even a thing or not. I think it's fine because I love that shirt.

[Monica Padman]

You have to keep wearing it.

[Erin Weekley]

I guess. This is going to be impossible not to get an oil stain in these games we play.

[Dax Shepard]

You're nailing something so on the head that I play these weird games. Like I could get, I presume unlimited numbers of those shirts. There are merch, but I'm not. I'm dealing with the two that are name that I've had for two months.

[Erin Weekley]

Now instead of pulling it.

[Dax Shepard]

And then I definitely wouldn't bring it. Like, you like I got a new shirt I love. I better not bring it.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Anything I like, I try not to use. That is anything I like, I don't. I don't want to use.

[Erin Weekley]

Yeah. I've like ruined my Ted Seeger's hat from sweating so horribly in it. Playing pickleball, washing it the way I shouldn't have have. And instead of grabbing another one out of the box because it's our merch. I hate it.

[Dax Shepard]

And I.

[Erin Weekley]

And I put it on my head once in a while and it's not right anymore, but I still won't grab another one.

[Dax Shepard]

What is that? Doesn't even sound familiar to you, does it? I feel like that's the shared childhood.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it probably is a scarcity mentality. Slash, like I. I messed up so I don't deserve another one or something. There's probably about something about deserving guil conscience. Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

And we don't.

[Erin Weekley]

Ever a question.

[Monica Padman]

You deserve the merch of the brands you invented.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. I'm not sure about that.

[Monica Padman]

I do want to say one thing about time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

My dad retired already or coming up Next. He retired on New Year's Eve. On New Year's Eve was his last day. He had to do his exit interview.

[Dax Shepard]

And today's the second. He's probably in the deepest depression he's been in his whole life.

[Monica Padman]

I'm trying to. I think Monday will be a little harder.

[Dax Shepard]

What's he gonna do Monday morning?

[Monica Padman]

So, okay, well, this is of course my dad. He is gonna do some contract work.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So he's gonna go back to work.

[Monica Padman]

Basically doing part time work.

[Erin Weekley]

Starts a new job Monday.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, well, entry level. He's gonna climb that ladder at the same company too. He's basically just like saying, yeah, but it is a big deal. I mean, he's about to turn 72. He's been working.

[Dax Shepard]

He's so spry. In my mind he's like 60.

[Monica Padman]

I know, I agree. I know. I hate. He kept saying, I'm 72. And I was like, I don't want to hear that.

[Dax Shepard]

Stop that.

[Monica Padman]

Stop saying it.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And then it was so funny. On New Year's Eve, right when the ball dropped, he was like, I have Medicare. He was so, so excited that he, he now has Medicare. For him, it's, it's a way he's been, he's been working the system his whole life.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

It's like he's been saving for a time environment his whole life.

[Dax Shepard]

His plan is coming, it's here to fruition, which to me that's what's dangerous about life. Continue.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Because to me, I would if I did that, if it was like, oh my God, and I'm saving for Medicare and I'm saving and then it's here, I would be very depressed. It's like I. Not only did I work and my work identities over, it's like I work towards a thing and now that's here now.

[Dax Shepard]

And this is the thing.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

This is what it's like to have all your ducks in a row and you have done it perfectly. How does it. And then you're like, oh, it's fine.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. It's just another day.

[Dax Shepard]

It's all a mental trick.

[Monica Padman]

I know. But because he's retired, I want the world to know that he has a little more time to spend on the sim.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, so things could really.

[Monica Padman]

It's gonna be a big year for my family. So he need to make some time.

[Erin Weekley]

Stay tuned for more armchair experts if you dare.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so now we have a new fun thing for Mondays, which is we get to do the fact check seamlessly.

[Monica Padman]

That's right. That's Right. We're so excited about this. So this is for Cher, my mom. It was funny. Cause I guess my mom loved Cher.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

Growing up.

[Dax Shepard]

That makes sense.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. You know, she said, I saw you were editing Cherry. And she was like, how was that? I told her, I was like, you know, Sunny took all her money and she was so shocked. And then she, you know, she was like, yeah. From the outside, when they got divorced, it was so sad.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And she's like, you just never know what's really going on.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's so cool. They continue to do their show after they were divorced.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

Oh, they did.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

And was she like real young?

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yo. Yeah. When they moved in with. She moved in with Sunny when she was 16.

[Erin Weekley]

Different times.

[Monica Padman]

Yep. Exactly. That was a lot of the.

[Dax Shepard]

She's got a story about like fucking Warren Beatty when she was 16. And he's like a 30 year old man. I don't know the age.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that's a fact.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it is.

[Monica Padman]

Yep. Okay, we can do it now. So Cher was born in 46. You can do fast math.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, 46, 4 80.

[Monica Padman]

She's 79. She was born in May of 46.

[Erin Weekley]

She was born yesterday.

[Monica Padman]

And Warren was born in March of 37.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa. What was her year of birth?

[Monica Padman]

46. They're not as hard as it seems.

[Dax Shepard]

So he was maybe 27 or 26 and she was 17.

[Monica Padman]

It's not as much as I was expecting.

[Dax Shepard]

That's not too bad.

[Erin Weekley]

That's all right.

[Dax Shepard]

We can certainly live with that in the 60s and 70s.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I know. Really different time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But what was funny is she said she was like, it was a different time. But I did have to lie and say I was 18. So it was like they. They still. She still knew, but she was kind of saying you had to lie because the men wouldn't you unless you were.

[Dax Shepard]

18 or have you around because they.

[Monica Padman]

Thought you were like babyish or just.

[Erin Weekley]

This was illegal, depending on what state maybe.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I even grew up in an era where it was like, okay, check well, A, okay, A, okay. And then B, like, how old did she check her license? Like that awareness of like, is she really right? That stuff was going on even been in the 90s. We were watching last night Beverly Hills Cop 2 with the whole crew and all the little kids. And Lincoln goes in the middle of the movie. Just. Was every guy in the 80s a huge pervert? And I go, well, we still are. We just are much quieter about it now. But the movie, you forget. It's Kind of like when I watched chips with them the other day and I'm like, oh, I'm so perverted. I didn't think I was this perverted, but now that they're watching with me, I realized Isaiah. But like, yeah, there's just these random scenes like. Like, yeah, let's. Let's find the. Let your dicks do the walk in. Wake up, dick.

[Erin Weekley]

They're like, let your dick point you the way. Point away.

[Dax Shepard]

This is like a big blockbuster summer movie.

[Kristen Bell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And that's how we were.

[Erin Weekley]

How long does it take you to shave those legs?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

You need me to be your groomer?

[Dax Shepard]

I'm offering my grooming services. He just met her.

[Cher]

Hot.

[Dax Shepard]

But let's.

[Monica Padman]

Get a lot of cashmere that way.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Speaking of your movie, your movie situation at this house last time you were doing Tom Cruise's cruises, and I was gonna text you that my family did Tom's cruises. Cruises. But it was short lived because the movie we started was Eyes Wide Shut.

[Dax Shepard]

No, that's not a family movie. Why did you guys pick, okay, that one?

[Monica Padman]

Because when I was flying home, I was listening to a podcast and someone said it was their favorite Christmas movie.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, oh. And I was like, I've never seen it. I know it's sexual, but I've never seen it. And if there's. If it's Christmasy, like, we're gonna watch it. So that night, me and my mom and my dad turned on Eyes Wide Shuttle and I.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a porno.

[Monica Padman]

It was a literal porn or. Jeez, everyone's so naked and I'm sitting there with my mom and my dad.

[Dax Shepard]

How's that feel?

[Monica Padman]

And it's like, this was a horrible mistake. And I was like, I am old because I'm not that uncomfortable.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, God.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Like, I was like, okay, I don't like this. This isn't recommended, but it's tolerable. But I can't seem.

[Dax Shepard]

You would have died, right?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Your dad would have died.

[Monica Padman]

Well, actually, my dad probably would have left.

[Dax Shepard]

He might have left. Yeah. I will say, no, that now that I'm a dad and I'm older, the stuff I thought my parents thought, they didn't think.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I'm not uncomfortable.

[Monica Padman]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

No. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe he was.

[Dax Shepard]

They're like, these. Your kids are these. Like, they're a whole different category of human.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I get that.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know how to explain it. It's just like all that stuff I thought may my parents were uncomfortable at the same time, they weren't. You're just your dumb little kids. And then they grow up, but they're still your dumb little kids.

[Monica Padman]

But not the other way. You're kids are mortified. Yeah. You're like, oh, I don't want my dad to be watching me.

[Dax Shepard]

Nipples.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Sexuality. The notion that. Yes. Acknowledging. I guess that's my point. That's how I could succinctly say it. Acknowledging your parents are sexual is deeply creepy.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Acknowledging your children are sexual is not.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not a thing. It's like, oh, yeah, they're the little human creatures and they're going to be sexual and they're boyfriends and that's all exciting for them. It's not creepy. Yeah, but your parents are like, oh, God. Did you ever hear your mother making love?

[Erin Weekley]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you did. Oh, they lived in a small town. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Ann Aaron's mom's so fucking sweet too. She might be the sweetest lady I've ever met in my life.

[Erin Weekley]

Oh, my God. My mom said she listened to Mom.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Erin Weekley]

Or watched it on YouTube. And she. I talked to her, you know, and we don't talk often. And she said she started crying and she said, I am so sorry that I didn't for childhood, pretty much. And I was like, where does that come from? And she goes, I listened to your episode.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, this is why they're not allowed to listen.

[Erin Weekley]

And I was like, I don't even know what he said.

[Dax Shepard]

But I.

[Erin Weekley]

Then I was asking Ruth. She goes, I think was that you guys were like, talking about Butch and Throw. And I was like, oh, for sake.

[Dax Shepard]

Would you ever guess she would be listening to that? Yeah, I know. But, yeah, I would never guess. She listened to it. And then, duh, she listened to it. If my kids are on a podcast, when I'm older, I'm gonna listen.

[Monica Padman]

But they. I shouldn't listen.

[Dax Shepard]

I deal with this with my mom, but I'm in a really lucky situation, which is like, I often. In fact, the only person I'm reading my memoir to is my daughters and my mom.

[Cher]

That's nice.

[Dax Shepard]

She is going through a lot of that stuff. I can imagine. And I'm just constantly going, mom, I'm fucking. I hit the lottery, whatever the recipe is. I'm so happy.

[Erin Weekley]

I literally.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't say any of that regrets or sadness. It's just like, well, here are the facts. Yeah, but we've been going through that a lot for, like, two years, as I'll like, write certain events, and then I'll read them to her. And it's kind of. I think, kind of good because then we have a good hour chatting about it all. And her reaction. I wonder what your mom's is. My mom's is just like, mostly. Yeah.

[Cher]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

All that happened, and it feels like 10 lives ago, and I can't really connect all that. And yet I know that all happened. And I'm like, yeah, same. It doesn't mean anything. It's just what it is.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

I never want to talk to my mom about any.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

That's just like pretending.

[Monica Padman]

That's one of these things. Yeah. Because then you kind of end up feeling guilty, and it's like, well, I don't want to feel guilty about this. It's like it's a weird cycle that starts happening.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. What you really want. Want to say is like, well, it's just the truth. I have zero resentment against it. Like, I have no ill feelings about anything.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I'm just like, that's cool, man. We all took a wild ride.

[Monica Padman]

But also, you guys are parents, so you could, I assume, imagine that if you heard your kids talking about horrible stuff, you would also want to say, I'm sorry for that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, true. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So maybe it was good for her that she got to say that to you.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You know, it's not like she. It's not like she doesn't know. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

For sure. Yeah. Same with my mom and that. Yeah. And I think she's been able to say, like, I'm. I'm really sorry. And I'm like, I. Yeah, you don't need to be. Yeah.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You were fucking 22 years old.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Two kids and a lot. Yeah. Cher.

[Monica Padman]

Very.

[Dax Shepard]

On top of that.

[Monica Padman]

It is on top of it.

[Dax Shepard]

You would love her book, dude. Yeah. I think I might have already told you this. I loved it. She Talk about a wild fucking ride.

[Monica Padman]

Getting through it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And she's been adult since she was nine years old.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Okay, so Prim, Nevada. Remember she said Prim.

[Dax Shepard]

I brought up her mom's boyfriend was a man with the last name Prim.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Who owned a casino. And I thought maybe he started Prim, Nevada, the whole town, but she didn't know.

[Monica Padman]

So. The casinos and resorts in Prim, Nevada. Nevada are primarily owned and operated by Affinity Gaming, though they were originally developed by the Prim family, Ernest and Gary Prim. It's got to be, right?

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

Gary Prim.

[Monica Padman]

It says who the town is named after.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

That's Cool. I looked up. Are you born with your temper?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

Because she said her dad had, like, no temper, so she could relate to him kind of because of that. Because the rest of her family had a. Has a big temper.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It says you're not born with a specific temper, but you are born with a temperament. A baseline for emotional reactivity that's influenced by genetics, around 20 to 60% and shaped by your environment and learned behaviors. Meaning some people have a natural predisposition to frustration or strong emotions that can be managed or worsened by how they're raised and experienced life. I have a bad temper, I think.

[Erin Weekley]

Yeah, you like real bad.

[Dax Shepard]

I have a bad temper. I think crickets.

[Cher]

I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you?

[Erin Weekley]

Sure.

[Monica Padman]

I'm easily frustrated, I'll say that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You don't have, like, tempered. Well, no. You have your tantrums. Those are fun tantrums. Yeah, yeah. Playful tantrum.

[Monica Padman]

But I don't think I get angry that fast. Maybe I do.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't have a thought just so.

[Monica Padman]

You can have a thought. Birthday. So you get to be. Whatever.

[Cher]

No, no, no.

[Dax Shepard]

I have none. I'm like. I'm evaluating you. Real time with you as you explore this.

[Monica Padman]

I have a.

[Dax Shepard]

What I think is your mercurial.

[Monica Padman]

That's worse.

[Dax Shepard]

No, Mercurial sounds cool.

[Monica Padman]

It sounds cool, but it is bad.

[Dax Shepard]

No, it just means that you have a lot of ebbs and flows in your disposition.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But mercurial is like, this is funny.

[Dax Shepard]

We're going too long. But I gotta say, I couldn't not observe it. I think there's so many funny gender things. I just constantly see them. And then as I enter different age groups, I see the gender thing play out differently. But we went to this very special place in the Bahamas.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Over the break. And everyone's well to do. And I just was observing. I think many men. Men just. We just don't want any emotions.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And we're so afraid of emotions, we don't know what to do with them. And then we get resentful at you if you have them. And so we're constantly. If we're in a position to. We're trying to create the perfect environment where everyone will be happy, which can't happen, obviously. But you think it can. You go, well, take everyone to where it's warm and it's a nice house. Clearly everyone will be happy for six days.

[Cher]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And that's, of course, not the case. Because you can't buy your way into just being in a good mood. No, you can't so I'm experiencing that. But mostly I. Then I get distracted by noticing, oh, all the dads here are having exact same experience. Like, I'm watching a table, like, with a meltdown happening, and I can just see on the guy's face, like, Amy and I brought everyone here, and the food's good and it's sunny. Like, why is everyone so upset? Do you do that?

[Erin Weekley]

Yeah, like, so I pay for.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You think you can create the perfect situation where you'll control. Really what I think as a guy you're trying to close is no emotions.

[Monica Padman]

I know. Which is, like, you want love ones.

[Dax Shepard]

I like. I like loved ones.

[Monica Padman]

I know you guys only want the good ones, but it's just us. Not real.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not how it works.

[Monica Padman]

And can I. I mean, I. I actually. I can't say this about Aaron because I've never seen it. Yeah, but you have ne. You have bad. You have negative emotions.

[Dax Shepard]

Never.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, you do. And they come up and they affect people too. And that's life. And it's okay.

[Erin Weekley]

Yeah, but vacation should be perfect.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

That's why we went there. We all declared this was going to be a perfect week. That's the. No compact.

[Monica Padman]

But look, that's also your expectations.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I was crazy sick. I still am a bit sick, but, like, with my brother to New York, you know, really, really sick sick.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But no one heard about it. You know, I wasn't laying in bed and people were bringing me things and I wasn't like, oh, my God, I'm so sick. But, you know, some people got a little feeling less than perfect on the trip, and it's just like a big event that they're sick.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Is that not a gender thing?

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

I actually think others. Men that are.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I think you kind of can't handle being sick personally. But I think just because you. You don't share that you're sick doesn't mean other people shouldn't say that they're sick or get taken care of.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I also, you were with your brother, so that's probably neither of us knew.

[Dax Shepard]

How to take care.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but if you are home, you get taken care of.

[Dax Shepard]

People do try to take care of me.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

For sure.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't do well with that. And I try to minimize you seeing that I need any help.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

But you're right. It's probably just me. It's probably not male, female.

[Monica Padman]

Do you like being taken care of?

[Erin Weekley]

Well, I wish I could lie.

[Monica Padman]

Don't lie.

[Erin Weekley]

But I Can't lie, it's been getting pretty ridiculous. I like to be taken care of.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Good, Aaron, good. I'm glad you're saying that. And it's good.

[Erin Weekley]

I mean, it's limited to one person I'll complain to, but I'm like, yeah, kind of been turning that a bit.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, good.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it feels good to have someone take care of you. It feels safe. It's nice.

[Erin Weekley]

Well, and I've always. Well, like, I've always been taken care of by Dax.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

He's always been the caretaker who can't show weakness.

[Monica Padman]

He can't receive.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

He can only give.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I think you allow me to help you sometimes.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Might be harder for you.

[Dax Shepard]

Clear. It's just my issue.

[Monica Padman]

It might be more of a male thing, though. You might not be able to receive help from a male more than you probably can receive a little more from women.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's definitely true. Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

I've never liked it in the past, but I definitely like it. I've learned. I've seen it get out of control where I'm like. I'm like, oh, you're not feeling good either? And I was like, well, I'm not here to do the taking care of.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Yes. Now we're really getting somewhere too, because I do think a good chunk of mine is like, no, no, we're all in an agreement. We're in a social contract. Handle your business. And like, I don't want to receive it because I suck at giving it. And I'm like, don't give it to me because I'm. When it comes time to give it to you, I'm going to suck out of this and I don't want it.

[Monica Padman]

Even though you're not going to suck at it, because there's no way of sucking at it other. Other than just saying, like, are you okay? Do you need anything? That's all you need?

[Dax Shepard]

That's crazy to me. Yes. So women are great at that. I. My thing is, like, I can't fix it. I don't know that you're going to be everything I need to say. I don't know if it's true. I don't know if you're going to be okay. I don't know if you're going to feel better tomorrow.

[Monica Padman]

You're going to be okay or you're going to feel better tomorrow. You just say, how are you?

[Dax Shepard]

And then I'll go like, can I get you, like, can I do anything to help.

[Monica Padman]

And they'll say, but I know there's.

[Dax Shepard]

Nothing to do to help. It feels like shit. And you're going to feel like shit for five days.

[Monica Padman]

It's just. It just means something that somebody is thinking of you and somebody's like, wants to. Whether they can do anything they want to.

[Dax Shepard]

That's exactly right.

[Kristen Bell]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And that's the hurdle I have to get over.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

This I had to get over 18 years ago with Kristen. She was like, we should go to Africa this spring. And I would go, well, we can't go in spring because you're doing that movie there and I'm doing blank.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that sounds racist.

[Dax Shepard]

That's the reality of it. And I don't want to be promising you we're going to Africa in spring when I know that's not possible. So I'm so literal. And I have such a fear that I'm going to disappoint something. You know, I've promised you something.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So I'm not going to do that.

[Monica Padman]

Because of your mom.

[Dax Shepard]

And then after a year or two that I realized she just wants to know, I'd like to go to Africa in the spring with her. Oh, that's what she really wants to know. Like, we should go to Africa in the spring. Yeah. Yeah, we should.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And that's fine.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And what I had to learn and trust is she's never going to be mad at me come spring and say, why aren't we in Africa? You said we were going to go to. That's never happened. But I had to learn that that part's never going to happen. So now I can be like, yeah, let's. She'll go like, let's go to such and such tonight. And I'll go, yeah, that sounds great. And in my head I'm like, we're never going there tonight.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

I know. This thing's happening at 4. We'll never make it.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

The other day she's like, oh, they did a pop up of the Home Alone Pizza Shop on Ventura Boulevard in Studio City at Pizza Place. Prince's Pizza.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

They made it look like the Home Alone Pizza Place, which again, I don't even know what the Home Alone Pizza Place. I guess they're just ordering pizza.

[Monica Padman]

They don't have a pizza place.

[Dax Shepard]

They order at the beginning, so they make it that place.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And Erica took the boys and everyone had a great time. So this is Fried Friday night.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

In la.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And Kristen says, and we're gonna go to a party at 7 or 8. We're gonna drop the kids at the Hansons. She goes, let's go to this pop up at 6 before we drop the kids at the Hansens at 6:40.

[Cher]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm like, not a chance. Yeah, we'll drive there in rush hour.

[Erin Weekley]

But you say yes.

[Dax Shepard]

I said yes. I go, great.

[Monica Padman]

That is gross.

[Dax Shepard]

We drove there and rush hour we got there and lo and behold there was the line two blocks along.

[Monica Padman]

No, you did drive there.

[Dax Shepard]

Which I knew would be the ca. It's Friday night in LA by the Hansen. Anyway. That's true.

[Monica Padman]

That's true.

[Dax Shepard]

It wasn't like completely. I knew like, I'm like, okay, I'm going to say yes, let's do it. I go, great, let's do it. I'm like, it's not going to happen. Wow. We d. But I go, but we'll be in the valley. There'll be other places to eat. We'll get drive thru. We'll make this work, work. But I was smart enough just to go like, yeah, let's go. And we went. There was everything. I thought it was two block line. Kristen goes, oh, this. I'm like, yeah. And I already know that is.

[Erin Weekley]

I'm almost like actually real growth there.

[Monica Padman]

I am impressed.

[Erin Weekley]

I haven't done that yet.

[Monica Padman]

That is hard.

[Dax Shepard]

Then I just was suspicious is I go, oh well, let's hit Sharky's. Like clearly I decided two hours ago, well we'll be able to hit Sharky's. No will be there on Friday night. And it's right by the ances. I just from the sec like as she was saying that line's long. I'm like, let's just go to Sharkey's. Because I already knew we were going to end up at Sharkey.

[Monica Padman]

That's because you, you know her. That's very individual. You've adjusted.

[Dax Shepard]

And what did she wanted to know is that her partner was excited to try this fun thing she heard about that could be really fun. And she's with someone who wants to go do that.

[Monica Padman]

That's nice.

[Dax Shepard]

And I got to give her that.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And the outcome was all the same. We didn't go there. We didn't wait in line for two hours like I said.

[Monica Padman]

But you drove there.

[Dax Shepard]

But we drove there.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that. That I have. That is impressive. That would be hard for me. I don't think I could do it.

[Dax Shepard]

It's hard. It's hard.

[Monica Padman]

I would have to say the reality which is like, okay, but there will be a Line. So we either have to go really early or probably won't be able to go.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So I. I'm impressed that you can do that. That's very.

[Dax Shepard]

Impress me.

[Erin Weekley]

Impressed.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, this brings us all down perfectly to New Year's resolutions, which. Do you have any? I have two. And then when. This is one of them.

[Monica Padman]

No, let me hear it.

[Dax Shepard]

One is just continue. I'm not going to crack it this year, but I know. And I've already vocalized it. Like, we got to not be affected by the emotions of other people. We got. We got to get on this like it's a job this year. So this is front of the. The mind. Like you're just going to let everyone have all their emotions and not.

[Monica Padman]

But do you get to do you. So in that case, are you able to have any, like, when.

[Dax Shepard]

Don't need them?

[Monica Padman]

No. Spoken like a true dad. Well, it's the expectations. It's just having the right expectations, I guess.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yes.

[Erin Weekley]

True.

[Dax Shepard]

Had. I thought we were going to go there and walk right in and get a slice of pizza. And we got there and then it was two hours. And then she did want it. I mean, luckily, she didn't want to wait in that line. That could have. Well, we couldn't have because we had to be at this party.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, then. Sprints.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to do sprints once a week this year. They're the worst. When's the last time you did a sprint?

[Monica Padman]

A long time.

[Dax Shepard]

I just decided if there was. They're hard on the knees, they're hard on everything.

[Erin Weekley]

I'd be terrified.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Just tear everything. But, you know, don't, you know intuitively, like, oh, if I can run full speed, I'm in good shape.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, if ever there were one signal of your fitness, it's like, can you run as fast as humanly possible away from an animal? That's pretty important.

[Erin Weekley]

Do you gotta work up to sprint? Like I'm thinking of. And this was even a long time ago, but I.

[Dax Shepard]

Baseball fantasy camp.

[Erin Weekley]

It was before that, but it was just the softball league. Like a bar league.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

And I was so excited to play some ball.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

You know, I'm drinking and I'm everything else and I'm not stretching and not doing anything. I fucking crank the ball my first at bat and I take off like a son of a bitch and just tore my hamstring. Oh, yeah. On the way to first base. And I had to be the catcher the rest of the year.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no.

[Erin Weekley]

And have A pinch runner.

[Dax Shepard]

Like today's gonna be day one. I'm gonna do six 30 second sprints.

[Erin Weekley]

Wow.

[Monica Padman]

But today, 30 seconds, that's long.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what I keep reading is the magic number.

[Monica Padman]

But can you maybe work your way up?

[Dax Shepard]

30 seconds is probably like a 200 meter run for me. I don't know. When we were kids, remember Brooke, he did the one lap like a quarter mile in like 59 seconds. I remember.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God.

[Erin Weekley]

Bill Booker.

[Dax Shepard]

Bill Booker Junior High.

[Monica Padman]

That was the last name.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

And Brady Tucker. Those two are the fastest.

[Dax Shepard]

Brady Tucker is built. They were like sliced along eighth grade.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So muscular.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Anywho. So I'll probably run at like 70% today, so I don't tear.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Don't let your birthday get hurt.

[Dax Shepard]

But within four sessions, I intend on running as fast as I can for those 30 seconds.

[Cher]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

I hope I won't rip anything, given that.

[Monica Padman]

Just make sure you're stretching.

[Dax Shepard]

Really stretch.

[Cher]

I hate stretch.

[Monica Padman]

I also tore my hand hamstring in high school.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't stretch.

[Erin Weekley]

I don't stretch. Ever.

[Monica Padman]

No. The older you get, you have to start stretching.

[Dax Shepard]

I believe in a warm up, but I don't believe in a stretch.

[Erin Weekley]

Stretching is. Yeah, it does negative things for me. I. And I know pickleball and everyone laughs at it. But like I walk into where we play pickleball and every asshole is doing the most stretches you have to get there. And I'm like, oh my. Give me a break, you guys. I mean come on, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Let's get real.

[Erin Weekley]

I play everybody day and I don't stretch. I shouldn't said that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you're gonna rip something. You're gonna rip something. Okay. My new year's resolution is stretching.

[Dax Shepard]

It was. It wasn't.

[Monica Padman]

But it might be now because I do want to stretch.

[Dax Shepard]

No, you need weight training.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I do. I have to get back into that.

[Dax Shepard]

But your farmer carries.

[Monica Padman]

I did do some accidental farmers carries over the break. Cause of shopping.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, sure, sure, sure.

[Monica Padman]

That was. I was carrying a la crusade and.

[Dax Shepard]

All this other jogging this trip. Because you generally jog on your trip.

[Monica Padman]

I normally am very good at exercise when I'm home and I was not.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's okay.

[Monica Padman]

I need to do my exercises, but I will. That's. Yes, that is a resolution to get back in a routine. A workout routine. And I had another one, but I forgot it.

[Cher]

It.

[Monica Padman]

I feel like that wasn't obviously that good.

[Dax Shepard]

More mercurial?

[Monica Padman]

No, I guess less mercurial. I don't know. Oh, well, one that we kind of talked about on the Christmas special is I do. I want to get. I want to have a looser grip on. On change.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right, right, right.

[Monica Padman]

I want to accept change more and not be so scared of it.

[Cher]

So.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

All these things are the exact same thing, by the way.

[Monica Padman]

Control.

[Dax Shepard]

Funny enough. Yeah. And also just this. Like, if you could start by telling yourself, like, I'm not going to die. Like, okay, she wants to go to this pizza place. There's no way it's gonna work. But at the end of that, no one's gonna shoot me in the head.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm not gonna be in pain. Like, things won't go my way.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I'll be just fine. That's hard to. For me to believe.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

That if I don't get my way, we'll be upset.

[Monica Padman]

But it's not even a. Okay, I'm going to give you a little something here, though. That's not. Not get your way. That's. Do something you know is not going to work out.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

That's not.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. That's different. That's true. That's true. That's true.

[Monica Padman]

It's like you're entering a situation that you know is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that I think is hard.

[Dax Shepard]

But also it won't kill me.

[Monica Padman]

It won't kill you.

[Dax Shepard]

It's fine. If I can just get to the part where it's like your control stuff. It's like they're doing this and they're doing, you know, whatever the thing is that's stressing you out.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you're like, yeah. And then I'll also be fine.

[Monica Padman]

I know. It is all also sort of cousins to getting taken advantage of and things like that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Like they don't respect my time. They don't.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, but again, we know it's like none of it's that deep. No one's even thinking about us.

[Monica Padman]

Well, but. I know. But then I don't like that.

[Dax Shepard]

But that's a thing.

[Monica Padman]

I don't like that. They're zero thought about.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

The other people who did Phil Spector murder. He murdered actress Lana Clarkson, finding her dead from a gunshot wound in his California mansion in 2003. He was later convicted of second degree murder and sentenced to 19 years to life in prison, dying in custody in 2021.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, he's dead.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Can you visually picture what he looks like, Monica? He's insane looking. Google a picture. Picture of him. You can. Can you picture Phil Spector?

[Erin Weekley]

I sure can. Same hair dude, he looked the same.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scary.

[Monica Padman]

He looks.

[Dax Shepard]

He looks like a murderer.

[Erin Weekley]

I can't believe how many women he worked with or. Yeah, wasn't he.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

Ike and Tina.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I think he did all that. He. He. He was doing Sunny and Cher and all the Motown stuff.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I can. Tina.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you're right. John Lennon, the wall of sound.

[Dax Shepard]

That was his.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Wall of sound.

[Cher]

Good job.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. You said you were giving her, like, credit for all the stuff she did, and you said 100 million albums, which. What's the. I'm kind of confused. So she sold over 100 million records.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But I think albums means, like, how many are putting out, right?

[Dax Shepard]

No, albums, Records. Same.

[Monica Padman]

Same thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Was that that number? Right.

[Monica Padman]

Over 100 million records.

[Dax Shepard]

That's crazy.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I was just. I saw this over the break. I saw a list of the top 50 rap albums of all time.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

What would you do off the top of your head? Like, what do you guys think? Who's leading that?

[Erin Weekley]

Like a single record or artist.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it was like, per album, like, number one rap album of all time sold. And I'll give you a hint. It was like. I think it was 51 million copies.

[Monica Padman]

Eminem.

[Dax Shepard]

Boom. Eminem was five of the top ten. Oh, wow. Jay Z wasn't. He didn't show up on the list until, like, 40. I think his biggest album had 7 million. I was saying to Kristen after I read that list, I was like, the industry's weird. Like, Jay Z's a billionaire and he's in 38th with only one album on the. The list.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was thinking, like, what you're really talking about is, like, the monetization of cool.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And cache cachet. Like, it's so weird. Jay Z doesn't have these 50 million, but he. We all know he's the coolest to ever do it. And so if he has clothes, I want those. And if he has this, like, it's just interesting how you can skin a cat.

[Monica Padman]

The respect that comes with some people. It's worth a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Like, MC Hammer's a above him right. In like, number eight or some with the.

[Erin Weekley]

You know, no one's wearing those pants.

[Dax Shepard]

And no one's wearing those pants, and he's not a billionaire. Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

I don't proper, though.

[Dax Shepard]

You do. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But, I mean, it is. To me, the reason I picked it is because white people listened to Eminem.

[Erin Weekley]

So white people listen to.

[Monica Padman]

They listen to all, but not all white people. In certain areas, they don't. And they would listen to Eminem. So I feel like he was really universal.

[Erin Weekley]

I remember thinking. I remember when his album came out, the first one, which was 99 maybe.

[Monica Padman]

Or close to that 2,000 mom spaghetti.

[Erin Weekley]

My name is Slim Shady.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

And the real Slim Shady.

[Cher]

Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

I remember being at the Detroit Fireworks, like, in a sea of craziness, if you remember.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Erin Weekley]

I think that was one of the last years I went. Because I was like, why do we do this? It's. People get shot. It's like. And you can't escape anyway. So I remember that song or that album was playing, playing everywhere, and there's barely white people. At least where I was. I was like, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, he broke through. The weirdest thing about Eminem is like a. I think he probably is the most skilled out of all them, white or not. His. His. His. His poetry is off the chart. Like, his rhymes are so More than.

[Monica Padman]

Jay Z and Kanye.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. They're so abstract, yet work. They're so complicated that they. Things he's rhyming don't make sense. Like, I think he's next. I think he might be skills wise, but he was never for me. Like, I can. I can totally appreciate the mad talent, but I never owned an Eminem album.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm not sure why. Maybe because, in fact, in this case, he was like, I don't want my rappers.

[Monica Padman]

That's not.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm getting it to get a glimpse into your world, and I love being able to get this authentic glimpse into your world. It's like, wait, this dude grew up in Clarkston by me? Yeah, we grew.

[Cher]

Grew up.

[Erin Weekley]

No, he grew up in Detroit.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Yeah. Well, the movie, I guess. All right. We really did it here.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, I think that's it.

[Dax Shepard]

Happy birthday.

[Monica Padman]

Happy New Year. And happy birthday.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, Love you.

[Kristen Bell]

Love you.

[Erin Weekley]

Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.