Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Guest: Dr. Coltan Scrivner (on Morbid Curiosities)
Date: December 10, 2025
Summary by Podcast Summarizer
Overview
This episode of Armchair Expert features Dr. Coltan Scrivner, a psychologist and author specializing in the study of morbid curiosity and the psychology behind humanity's fascination with horror, violence, and true crime. Dr. Scrivner discusses his new book, Morbidly Curious: A Scientist Explains Why We Can't Look Away, and takes Dax, Monica, and listeners on a deep dive into why people are drawn to dark, scary, or violent topics—ranging from haunted houses to true crime podcasts, horror movies, and beyond. The conversation spans evolutionary theory, psychosocial insights, paranormal experiences, parenting, and cultural shifts in horror consumption.
Key Topics & Discussion Points
1. Introducing Coltan Scrivner
- Background and Academic Journey ([03:07]–[12:07])
- Coltan's roots in Oklahoma and the Ozarks, running a Victorian bed & breakfast, and hosting "zombie festivals."
- Transition from anthropology and forensic biology to a PhD in behavior biology, blending evolutionary and psychological approaches.
- Early fascination with horror through games like Resident Evil.
- Research at haunted attractions including immersive, field-based science.
- Notable quote:
"I hate the, like, sterile lab environment. Much prefer doing the nitty gritty, like in the field, real stuff. It's very fun." — Coltan Scrivner [09:07]
2. The Science of Morbid Curiosity
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Why Are We Attracted to Scary and Morbid Things? ([12:07]–[16:18])
- Humans punish violence morally, but create exceptions (sports, horror, ritualized violence).
- Initial psych studies focused on eye-tracking and attention—acts of violence draw visual focus, overriding the instinct to look at faces.
- Paradoxes about enjoying what we say we dislike; tension between repulsion and attraction.
-
Physical and Psychological Responses ([18:26]–[24:03])
- "Sweet spot" of fear: People enjoy horror most when it's about a 7 out of 10 on the fear scale.
- Regulation behaviors: turning lights off to increase fear or watching with friends to decrease.
- Practicing emotional regulation through “safe fear play,” akin to exposure/immersion therapy.
- Notable quote:
"You're always trying to regulate ... practicing regulating your anxiety and your fear, which is something you can use later in the real world." — Coltan Scrivner [19:09]
-
Three Types of Horror Fans ([19:59]–[24:07])
- Adrenaline Junkies: Chase the physical rush.
- White Knucklers: Don’t enjoy the fear per se, but enjoy overcoming it or learning about themselves.
- Dark Copers: Use horror as a tool for processing anxiety, depression, or existential dread.
- Dax: "The accomplishment."
Scrivner: “They reported that they felt like they learned something about themselves... that was the second group.” [21:52]
- Scrivner: “There was a third group that we didn’t expect... using scary experiences to deal with difficult emotions...” [24:07]
3. Defining Morbid Curiosity & Its Components
4. True Crime, Gender, and Social Purpose
5. Physical Violence, Sports, and Learning
- Why (Some) People Love Sports Like UFC ([49:30]–[51:13])
- Rules and ritual buffer primal experiences—enabling safe, vicarious learning and catharsis.
- Viewers may be practicing for rare but high-stakes real risks, e.g., being beaten up.
- Dax: "These are guys who went to bars and were afraid another guy was going to beat the shit out of them. And it's a very living fear..." [49:57]
- Sports’ popularity and the desire for 'fair' violence (rules, weight classes).
6. Pandemics, Contagion, and Bodily Threats
- Morbid Curiosity in Widespread Contagion ([53:09]–[55:37])
- Surge in popularity for movies like "Contagion" during COVID-19; perfect correlation in Google trends.
- Horror and pandemic media fulfill an informational and emotional need during times of uncertainty.
7. The Paranormal and Emotional Truths
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Why We Still Fear Ghosts, Even If We Don’t Believe ([55:54]–[62:19])
- First-person ghost hunt and unexplained experiences (Crescent Hotel, Savannah).
- Studies: people’s experience of "spooky" events influenced by context, not belief.
- Dax: “There’s a logical truth and there’s an emotional truth... quite often they’re just not.” [68:24]
-
Cross-cultural and Ritual Beliefs
- Power of stories, supernatural narratives, and anthropomorphizing misfortune as agency (ghosts, witches).
- The body’s reactions often override rational beliefs.
8. Parenting, Children, and Spooky Play
- Should We Let Kids Indulge in Fear? ([74:08]–[75:04])
- Regulating fear through play (games, movies) is developmentally beneficial for emotional regulation.
- Parents' desire to shield kids from fear may backfire.
“If you don’t let them do that in a playful way when they're young, it's going to be difficult for them to learn how to regulate those feelings later on.” — Coltan Scrivner [74:13]
9. Morbid Curiosity in Modern Life
10. Dreams, Nightmares, and Evolution
- Why Do We Dream About Threats? ([69:50]–[73:54])
- "Threat simulation theory"—dreams, especially nightmares, may have evolved as a tool for rehearsing danger.
- Many animals dream; humans may have started with nightmares and expanded to more diverse dreams.
11. The Morbid Curiosity Scale
- Measuring Morbid Curiosity ([69:06]–[69:47])
- 24-question scale available online, quantifying overall morbid curiosity and its four domains.
Memorable Moments & Quotes
- "That is what morbid curiosity is. It’s this mixed emotional experience of, ah, man, I really kind of want to see it, but I hope it’s not there. But if it is... I want to see it." — Coltan [27:07]
- “Most horror fans are not adrenaline junkies. It's more nuanced than that.” — Coltan [21:04]
- “Humans are much less reactively aggressive than most other animals ... but we developed what’s called proactive aggression.” — Coltan [44:47]
- “By itself ... [morbid curiosity] doesn’t seem to be related to any dangerous or psychopathological outcomes.” — Coltan [80:43]
- “If you don’t let them do that in a playful way when they’re young, it’s going to be difficult for them to learn how to regulate those feelings later on.” — Coltan [74:13]
Important Timestamps
- 03:07–04:25: Coltan’s quirky small-town background and zombie festival.
- 12:07–16:18: How violence grabs our attention, paradox of enjoyment.
- 18:26–19:27: The "sweet spot" of fear for maximum enjoyment.
- 19:59–24:07: The three core types of horror fans and their motivations.
- 25:01–37:02: Four domains of morbid curiosity and how they developed.
- 44:00–44:47: Linguistic evolution and proactive aggression.
- 53:09–55:37: Pandemic, “Contagion”, and our thirst for information in crisis.
- 55:54–62:19: Ghost stories, “the power of context,” and emotive truth.
- 69:06–69:47: The morbid curiosity scale and how to take it.
- 76:12–78:41: Horror's rising popularity post-COVID.
- 78:41–80:51: No evidence linking morbid media to real-life violence.
Tone & Style
The conversation alternates between scientific explanations, personal anecdotes, playful teasing, and honest curiosity. Dax and Monica oscillate between humor, vulnerability, and genuine interest, always keeping the atmosphere both thoughtful and light—even when exploring some of the darkest corners of human psychology.
Summary
Dr. Coltan Scrivner’s research provides a rich, evolutionary and empirical understanding of why humans are intrigued by violence, horror, true crime, and the supernatural. Instead of being pathological or dangerous, morbid curiosity is revealed as adaptive: a playground for practicing emotional regulation and threat modeling, a means of collective storytelling, and a tool for social cohesion and learning. Parents, horror fans, and skeptics alike can relax—our love for the macabre is, in fact, deeply human.
