Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Guest: David McWilliams
Episode: On the History of Money
Date: January 14, 2026

Episode Overview

In this lively and illuminating episode, Dax Shepard and Monica Padman sit down with acclaimed Irish economist David McWilliams to explore the fascinating, messy, and transformative story of money. Together, they trace the history of our most powerful cultural invention—from ancient bartering to blockchain—taking detours through Greek democracy, Roman toilets, revolutions, and crypto controversies. The discussion is refreshingly candid; it covers the deep psychological, societal, and even emotional roles money plays in our lives, while busting myths and highlighting surprising truths with humor and humanity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Taboo and Power of Money

• [00:19–03:35]
  • Dax and Monica reflect on money as a forbidden but ever-present topic.
  • Personal anecdotes about openness or secrecy around money.
  • Quote [02:13, Dax]: "My family was very open about money. And a lot of families are very tight lipped about money."
  • David McWilliams’ book, "The History of Money," is introduced, setting the stage.

Setting the Stage: David’s Background

• [06:00–11:13]
  • David shares about growing up in Dublin with a teacher mother and chemical plant worker father, debunking Irish stereotypes.
  • [10:04, Dax]: "Heavy drinker?"
    [10:05, McWilliams]: "On the contrary."
  • Discusses formative experiences: Irish economic hardships, emigration, and witnessing his father’s job loss shaping his interest in economics and power structures.

The Illusion of Control in Economics

• [17:19–19:42]
  • David’s realization from working inside the Central Bank of Ireland: “Nobody's in control.”
  • Quote [17:32, McWilliams]: “Once you work in these institutions ... the notion that there’s somebody in control disappears and you realize ... the stuff that I do is entirely random.”
  • Dax relates this to conspiracy theories, arguing true system-wide control is impossible.

Money as a Human Technology

• [21:29–24:44]
  • McWilliams frames money as our most important—and overlooked—technology, comparing it to fire.
  • [23:25, McWilliams]: “Fire makes stuff soft... if the first 300,000 years…was fire, the last 5,000 … we have become a Pluto fight species...constantly adapted by, and we adapt to, this technology [money].”
  • Money is the fifth element—an entirely human invention that binds diverse societies.

The Double-Edged Sword of Money

• [25:07–26:59]
  • Money can be seen as a corrupting or ennobling force.
  • [26:13, McWilliams]: “There was a French sociologist… Marcel Maus. He said, in order to trade, man must first throw down the spear. ... trading and money was an alternative to war.”

The Greeks: First Monetized Society

• [27:29–29:09]
  • The Greeks’ innovation with coinage led to rationality, democracy, and intellectual progress.
  • Urban public markets (agoras) create bustling centers for trade, gossip, and dissent versus centralized, non-democratic societies.

Money, Trust, and Social Complexity

• [32:31–34:02]
  • Money enables trust between strangers, amplifying social complexity.
  • Dax notes specialized labor and knowledge growth thanks to monetary systems.

Credit, Abstraction, and Time Travel

• [35:35–39:06]
  • The emergence of credit lets people “spend the profits of tomorrow today.”
  • [37:43, McWilliams]: “Money allows us to travel in time, and that’s a really essential thing to grasp.”

The Downside: Collapses, Revolutions, Manipulation

• [40:39–47:44]
  • The Roman and later European economies were built (and fell) on credit and the manipulation or destruction of currency.
  • When money systems fail, so do cultures: stagnation during the Dark Ages, innovation surges during the Renaissance along with the resurgence of coinage and double-entry bookkeeping.

Iconic Moments in Money’s Destructive Power

• [51:02–56:43]
  • David discusses how revolutions (American, French, Russian) are often underpinned by money and scarcity.
  • How Lenin and later Hitler used destruction of currency as a weapon to collapse systems.
  • Hitler’s (ultimately unrealized) plan to airdrop counterfeit British pounds over England is detailed.
  • [56:43, Dax]: “This is the real story. In 1941, Hitler…said what we’re going to do is … have the largest forgery operation ever ... airdrop them and destroy the spirit of the British people by destroying their money.”

Money Today: Crypto, Digital Currencies, and the Future

• [61:31–68:47]
  • Crypto as the modern attempt to challenge state-backed money.
  • McWilliams is highly critical:
    [65:15, McWilliams]: “Crypto is the Esperanto of money. Incredibly important to people who own Bitcoin… and the rest of us don’t give a shit.”
  • The real trust in money comes from collective faith, convenience, and state provision—not private, speculative creation.
  • The future is digital, but still likely state-backed: “At the end of the day, the Federal Reserve will issue digital dollars and that's it.” [68:34]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Taboo of Money:
  • [00:34, Dax]: “It is really peculiar how powerful money is in our lives. And how it is a forbidden topic.”
• On the Power and Danger of Money:
  • [26:58, McWilliams]: “...what money is, is this amazing technology…that allows cooperation.”
• On Trust and Markets:
  • [32:47, McWilliams]: “Money amplifies trust, and trust is essential for us to live in complex societies... Once you start dealing with strangers, you start sleeping with strangers...”
• On Credit as Time Travel:
  • [37:41, McWilliams]: “Money allows us to travel in time.”
• On the Collapse of Currency:
  • [54:12, Dax]: “Lenin, after the 1917 Russian Revolution… said, how do we get rid of all remnants of the Russian government … we must completely annihilate the currency.”
• On Crypto:
  • [65:15, McWilliams]: “Crypto is the Esperanto of money. Incredibly important to people who own Bitcoin… and the rest of us don’t give a shit.”
  • [68:47, McWilliams]: “The idea that some private tech bro is going to be issuing the money... I get that you don’t trust the government. But the notion that you trust an individual even more is fucking preposterous.”

Important Timestamps

• 00:19–03:35 — Money as taboo: Cultural anecdotes and openness
• 10:04–11:37 — David’s childhood, Irish economic challenges, shaping his worldview
• 17:19–19:42 — The myth of control in economics; conspiracy thinking debunked
• 21:29–24:44 — Money as the “fifth element”; comparison to fire
• 27:29–29:09 — Greeks and the intellectual consequences of monetization
• 35:35–39:06 — Credit, abstraction, and financial optimism
• 41:12–44:16 — Roman credit, taxation, and even urine as a taxed commodity!
• 47:44–50:58 — The Middle Ages decline and Renaissance resurgence: bookkeeping and zero
• 51:02–56:43 — Revolutionary manipulation of currency: American, Russian, German examples
• 61:31–68:47 — Crypto skepticism, state vs private money, the coming of digital currencies

Tone & Style

The conversation is characterized by:

• Warmth and self-deprecating humor (Dax and Monica openly reflect on own anxieties about money)
• Storytelling flair (David relays complex history through vivid, relatable anecdotes)
• Intellectual accessibility—complex ideas are made inviting and engaging for any listener
• Openness to challenge and curiosity, with Dax asking “dumb” questions on behalf of all

Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode is a highly engaging exploration of what money really is—its history, its psychological grip, its potential for both progress and devastation. Economist David McWilliams, with wit and storytelling panache, traces money’s rise from ancient times to its role in modern crises and digital disruption. Money is not only a tool for trade but a cultural force that shapes our relationships, values, and very sense of possibility. The episode entertains and educates, making the complex story of money feel both intimate and urgent.

If you’re curious about how money shapes everything—why it’s taboo, how it transformed civilizations, how it’s manipulated in war and revolution, and why crypto probably isn’t the new world order—this rich, story-filled conversation delivers.