Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Guest: James L. Brooks
Date: December 3, 2025
Episode: James L. Brooks (Director and Producer)

Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging conversation, Dax Shepard and Monica Padman sit down with iconic director, writer, and producer James L. Brooks. Spanning over six decades, Brooks’ career has shaped both television and film—creating genre-defining shows like The Mary Tyler Moore Show, producing The Simpsons, and directing Oscar-winning films like Terms of Endearment and Broadcast News. The episode delves into Brooks’ early life, his creative process, his approach to groundbreaking characters and storylines, reflections on his many successes and setbacks, and his latest film, Ella McKay. The tone is funny, warm, deeply honest, and occasionally poignant as Brooks speaks vulnerably about his childhood, career turning points, and the threads connecting his work.

Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life and Family Dynamics

• Upbringing: Brooks recalls growing up in Brooklyn and New Jersey, raised mostly by his single mother and older sister after his father left.
  • "It's ever the regret of my life that my mom couldn't see some good things happen to me." — James L. Brooks (06:01)
• Loneliness as Creative Fuel:
  • “In my loneliness, I decided to write. Writing was a world in which I had total control and power... That was a relief.” — James L. Brooks (07:41)
• On bullying: Shares the story of being bullied in high school and later discovering his main tormentor became a federal judge.
  • “I was looking for much worse.” — James L. Brooks (08:25)

2. Breaking into Television

• Early hustle: High school involvement in the school newspaper, interviewing celebrities like Louis Armstrong and Ann Bancroft; second-acting into Broadway shows as a resourceful teen.
  • “I was very resourceful in getting exclusive interviews with very big celebrities.” — James L. Brooks (08:40)
• First big break: Left NYU after finding happiness in college life, then, through luck and initiative, landed entry-level jobs at CBS that led to a stint as a news writer.
  • “You're looking at somebody who brought Edward R. Murrow coffee.” — James L. Brooks (12:44)

3. Transition from News to Sitcoms

• Move to L.A.: Chases love and opportunity, ends up unemployed but gets a foot in the door writing for TV, starting with My Mother the Car, and then working on Andy Griffith Show and My Three Sons.
• Mentorship and Research: Gene Reynolds instilled in him the necessity of relentless research for authenticity in Room 222.
  • “You unconsciously dug deeper by showing up again and again.” — James L. Brooks (15:49)

4. Groundbreaking Work in Television

• Room 222: Among the first shows with multiple Black leads; a tough sell in '60s TV.
• Mary Tyler Moore Show: Co-created with Alan Burns, featuring TV’s first single, working, independent female protagonist; pioneering female representation and changing norms.
  • “There are three things that the public doesn’t like: divorce, Jews, and men with mustaches." — TV executive to Brooks (17:53)
• Norman Lear comparison: Dax notes Brooks was equally seminal in using sitcoms to explore social issues.
• Taxi: Assembled a cast still revered today; research into cab company life informed iconic characters like Danny DeVito’s dispatcher.
  • “When they got off work, they were still hanging around... ‘Me, I want to be a cab driver.’ That became what made our hero a hero.” — James L. Brooks (23:44)
• Casting anecdotes:
  • Danny DeVito's audition: threw the script on the ground: "Who wrote this shit?" (24:17)
  • Andy Kaufman’s condition for the show: they had to hire “Tony Clifton” (his alter ego) as well, with his own dressing room (25:51)

5. Evolution into Movies

• Film vs. TV Divide in the 1970s/1980s: Brooks explains the historical silo between TV and film; TV writers were seen as “unhirable in film.”
  • “There was a wall up. They were contemptuous of us from TV. It’s so crazy how radically that has changed.” — James L. Brooks (35:13)
• Terms of Endearment: Brooks spends four years to get it financed; shares the struggle, the thrill of casting, and the emotional source of the story.
  • “Second time in my life I cried reading a book, you’re not gonna walk away.” (36:19)
  • “If [Jack Nicholson] didn’t do it, nobody could.” (37:59)
• Oscars Triumph: Won for screenplay, directing, and best picture; describes heightened self-consciousness from such recognition.
  • “That the third one, just my mind was blown. So I was just sort of staggering.” (39:57)

6. The Birth and Impact of The Simpsons

• Tracey Ullman, The Simpsons, & Creative Control: How the animated shorts transitioned to a phenomenon, aided by unique contractual creative freedom.
  • “It was a young network, and so I don’t think you would have gotten [such control] out of one that was established.” (45:26)
• Industry Impact: Acknowledges the show's unparalleled cultural and financial success, but emphasizes its community/fresh energy above all.
  • “It’s the longest running scripted show in history.” (46:12)
  • “Nobody second guesses you at this point. It’s just a great atmosphere.” (47:05)
• Financials: Dax presses on aggregate revenue; Brooks refuses specifics, but it's estimated at $14B+.
  • “No, thank heavens.” — James L. Brooks (46:07)

7. Setbacks and Lessons

• I'll Do Anything: Brooks opens up about a high-profile failure and the unique pain of public creative misfires.
  • “It was a big failure... I apologized to everybody I’d worked with to lead them into that.” (47:42)
• Reflections: Discusses the reality of bruising failures, humility, and moving forward.

8. Championing New Voices and Film

• Bottle Rocket: Brooks gives Wes Anderson, Owen Wilson, and Luke Wilson their start after seeing their short film in a pigsty Texas apartment.
  • “They hadn’t ever read it out loud… three and a half hours later... And then there was six months of work.” (49:34)
• Personal Reward: Brooks resists being described as a launchpad for others’ careers, stressing the love of good work itself.

9. Directing Style & Approaches

• As Good As It Gets:
  • Importance of giving even dog actors artistic respect.
  • Casting Greg Kinnear took months ("the toughest"). Emphasis on deeper “work sessions” rather than typical auditions. (52:05–53:17)
• Collaborative Process: The focus on vulnerability, authenticity, and giving actors space to contribute.

10. The New Film: Ella McKay

• Plot & Themes: Explores a young woman (Emma Mackey) navigating the chaos of family scandal, bereavement, and assuming political leadership.
  • Woody Harrelson plays her troubled, philandering father. Jamie Lee Curtis is her aunt and confidante.
• Personal Parallels: Brooks admits the character’s family history echoes his own.
  • “I called him Eddie. My father’s name.” (58:46)
• On Forgiveness:
  • “If forgiveness is always the answer, forgiveness is meaningless. Something has to be unforgivable for forgiveness to mean anything.” — James L. Brooks (59:03)
• Why a female protagonist?: Brooks says he “never thought about it that way,” suggesting both conscious and unconscious reasons for writing women at the center of his stories.
• Central Relationships: The emotional core is the relationship between Ella and her aunt; critiques gendered double standards in how ambitious partners are viewed.

11. Reflections on Gender, Influence, and Growth

• Generational Change: Brooks discusses how depictions of contemporary women have evolved from Mary Tyler Moore to Ella McKay.
  • “Women change. That’s always the question… this is a no-nonsense, public servant we pray for.” (62:51)
• Emotional Growth: On crying, vulnerability, and later-life softness—first cried at his mother’s death, then again reading Terms of Endearment, but now tears come more easily, especially with family.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Why He Writes:
  • “Writing was a world in which I had total control... That was a relief.” (07:41)
• On Andy Kaufman's Tony Clifton Alter Ego:
  • “You have to hire Tony Clifton as well, and give him his own dressing room.” (25:51)
• On Tackling Social Issues in TV:
  • “We’re inventing a paradigm right now: we’re going to talk about some serious stuff in a comedy. That’s just rare and unique.” — Dax Shepard (21:36)
• On Setbacks:
  • “You're spending a few months of your life blushing.” — James L. Brooks, after I’ll Do Anything flopped (48:04)
• On Forgiveness:
  • “If forgiveness is always the answer, forgiveness is meaningless. Something has to be unforgivable for forgiveness to mean anything.” (59:03)
• On Launching Others’ Careers:
  • “It’s not about that. It’s when the work is good, you feel good… I think the cart and horse is very clear to me.” (50:52)
• On the Rewards of Series TV:
  • “There's no better job in the world than working on a television show that's working... you get community you can’t quite get in movies. Babies are born. People get married. You’re all growing up together.” (20:08)

Key Timestamps

• 03:57 – 07:27: Brooks’ childhood, impact of absent father and hardworking mother
• 08:40 – 10:50: Early resourcefulness; interviews with Armstrong and Bancroft
• 12:01 – 13:26: Landing first TV jobs; early at CBS; Edward R. Murrow anecdote
• 14:19 – 15:43: Connection with Alan Burns; first sitcom writing gigs
• 17:13 – 20:08: The Mary Tyler Moore Show: breaking barriers, pitching challenges, and network resistance
• 23:02 – 24:31: Taxi: blue-collar research; casting DeVito and Kaufman
• 35:01 – 39:57: Transition to film; Terms of Endearment struggle and Oscar wins
• 43:40 – 46:56: The Simpsons: creative control, success, financial scale
• 47:23 – 48:45: First big flop, I'll Do Anything, and how Brooks processed it
• 49:02 – 50:12: Discovering Wes Anderson and Owen Wilson through Bottle Rocket
• 51:32 – 53:17: As Good as It Gets: casting, dog actors, and work sessions
• 54:18 – 63:06: Ella McKay — story summary, casting, and personal connection
• 65:17 – 66:24: On vulnerability, daughters, and crying as an older man

Overall Tone and Takeaways

James L. Brooks’ humility, candor, and humor shine throughout, making this episode a moving testament to both the messiness and the magic of creating art from real life. Dax and Monica’s genuine fandom and warmth break down any barriers, and Brooks' willingness to share his vulnerabilities and regrets give aspirants and admirers alike a valuable, humanizing perspective on longevity and integrity in entertainment.

Highly Recommended For:

• Fans of TV/film history and storytelling
• Aspiring writers, showrunners, or directors
• Anyone interested in the evolution of strong female characters
• Those curious about how heartbreak and family shape creativity

Episode concludes with fact checks, friendly banter, and playful debates on authenticity, attraction, and popular music obsessions—a classic Armchair Expert treat.