Jesse Eisenberg

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard – Episode Summary: Jesse Eisenberg

Release Date: December 16, 2024

In this compelling episode of Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard, host Dax Shepard reconnects with Academy Award-nominated actor and filmmaker Jesse Eisenberg. The conversation delves deep into Jesse's personal struggles, career milestones, and his journey through mental health challenges, offering listeners an intimate glimpse into the complexities of being human.

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Reunion and First Impressions

00:43 – 04:24

The episode begins with Dax warmly welcoming Jesse Eisenberg back to the show, reminiscing about their previous encounter. Both Dax and co-host Monica Padman express their admiration for Jesse’s talent and charisma.

• Dax Shepard: "He's a borderline blessing."
• Monica Padman: "He is incredible. He's an Academy Award-nominated actor. Filmmaker. Did I say actor?"

Their light-hearted banter sets a comfortable tone for the in-depth discussion that follows.

Early Life and Personal Struggles

04:24 – 27:04

Jesse opens up about his tumultuous childhood, marked by severe anxiety and obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). He recounts being forcibly removed from preschool and experiencing intense separation anxiety, leading to a year-long hiatus from school and a stay in a mental institution at age 13.

• Jesse Eisenberg: "I was hysterically crying when I was four years old. I got kicked out of preschool because I couldn't leave my mom."

Dax empathizes, highlighting the universal nature of such struggles and the profound impact they can have on one's development.

• Dax Shepard: "They have this great perspective on you being too messed up already."

Navigating School and Social Relationships

27:04 – 44:18

The conversation shifts to Jesse's high school years, where despite his emotional turmoil, he engaged in community theater as an outlet from academic pressures. This early exposure to acting laid the groundwork for his future career.

• Jesse Eisenberg: "I started doing community theater. It was an amazing outlet."

Dax and Monica discuss the challenges Jesse faced in forming friendships and his desire for external validation, a theme that recurs throughout his life.

Acting Career and Breakthrough Roles

44:18 – 70:03

Jesse reflects on his early acting roles, including his time on the TV show Parenthood, where he first met Dax. He shares anecdotes about auditioning for and landing roles in significant films like The Social Network and Zombieland.

• Jesse Eisenberg: "I remember that script was, 'Oh my God, this is such a great thing to read.' And then I just made the tape on my couch in New York and then they gave me the part."

He discusses the complexities of playing characters that mirror his own anxieties, particularly in The Social Network, where his portrayal of Mark Zuckerberg earned critical acclaim but also intensified his personal insecurities.

• Jesse Eisenberg: "There's a dichotomy of I'm unworthy and I'm a fraud and also you're supposed to be doing great things. They're kind of incompatible."

Mental Health and Self-Perception

70:03 – 89:41

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to exploring Jesse's ongoing battle with depression and anxiety. He candidly talks about the pervasive dread he feels, juxtaposed with moments of joy in his personal life, such as his relationships with his wife and children.

• Jesse Eisenberg: "I just feel like I won the lottery that I get to be able to do something I genuinely like."

Dax relates by sharing his own experiences with self-loathing and the struggle to balance self-compassion with self-criticism.

• Dax Shepard: "You have an overarching hunch that you've convinced yourself there's a lot of things you can't pull off that you could."

Directing and Creative Control

89:41 – 106:32

Jesse discusses his foray into directing, emphasizing the challenges of transitioning from acting to leading a production. He highlights the importance of surrounding himself with talented collaborators who complement his creative vision.

• Jesse Eisenberg: "The directors I've loved working with are not those people either. They're people like me."

He also touches upon the financial aspects of filmmaking, sharing insights into producing films on modest budgets and the satisfaction derived from creative autonomy.

Personal Relationships and Recognition

106:32 – 133:28

The episode concludes with light-hearted discussions about Jesse’s relationships, particularly his friendship with actress Emma Stone and the humorous confusion with Michael Cera's identity. Dax and Monica add personal anecdotes, making the conversation relatable and endearing.

• Dax Shepard: "You're so good in it. Everyone’s so good in it."

They share stories about family dynamics, pet antics, and holiday preparations, wrapping up the episode on a warm and personal note.

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Notable Quotes

• Jesse Eisenberg (04:00): "I think maybe I've kind of self-defined in a way that's actually maybe not the most accurate."
• Dax Shepard (35:48): "You have to learn to work with your character defects and exploit them for the good side and try to mitigate the downside."
• Jesse Eisenberg (75:03): "If your life is not working out in certain areas, the quicker thing to do is not try to fix it or blame yourself or try to fix yourself. The quicker thing to do is create some really well-reasoned, logical sounding argument of why the thing that you didn't get is bullshit."

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Conclusion

This episode offers a profound exploration of Jesse Eisenberg's journey through personal adversity and professional triumphs. By intertwining his candid reflections with moments of levity, Dax Shepard and Monica Padman create a narrative that is both relatable and inspiring. Listeners gain valuable insights into the resilience required to navigate the complexities of mental health while pursuing one's passion in the demanding world of acting and filmmaking.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Modest Mouse.

[Monica Padman]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello there.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Hello there.

[Dax Shepard]

Hello there. Jesse Eisenberg. This is a reunion for he and I. As you'll find out, we met one other time. Yes, I really enjoyed Jesse Einstein.

[Monica Padman]

I enjoyed him so much, truly. And when I was listening back, I was like, holy, this guy is great.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a special dude.

[Monica Padman]

He is. And he's very quick. He's very funny. He was a joy.

[Dax Shepard]

He is incredible. He's an academy award nominated actor. Filmmaker. Did I say actor?

[Monica Padman]

Is he a blessing?

[Dax Shepard]

He's a borderline blessing.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

And he's a playwright. The social network. Come on, guys. Now you see me. There's two, three, third coming. Maybe Zombieland. Oh, Fleischman in trouble. Great show. When you finish saving the world and his movie is out right now, a real pain, which is a bonafide great movie. I hope people check out this movie. It's so, so good. It's so unique and honest and great. Please enjoy Jesse Eisenberg. The blessing. The blessing. You don't watch Christmas Vacation enough.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I don't.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's have aunt so and so say grace. Grace. She's been dead for years. No, the blessing. They want you to say the blessing. He's pointing at his teeth. He's very old and he has a toupee and it catches on fire. Lots going on on that. Please enjoy Jesse Eisenberg. We are supported by Klaviyo. Klaviyo helps brands build smarter digital relationships with their customers. And here at Armchair Expert, we know a little something about how challenging that can be. Here's how Klaviyo does it. Their unified data and marketing automation platform turns customer data into personalized connections to make every moment count across AI powered email, SMS analytics and more. Klaviyo powers smarter digital relationships for more than 151,000 successful brands, including Headley and Bennett, Fishwife and Dag Dover. Build smarter digital relationships with your customers. Visit K L A V I Y o dot com to make every moment count. We are supported by Audible. Audible's best of 2024 picks are here. Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio entertainment. Like a stunning new full cast production of George Orwell's 1984. This is the one I am most to indulge myself with.

[Monica Padman]

I'm so excited to listen to James, which is a new title by Percival Everett that is very, very hot right now.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, there's so many good ones on the list.

[Monica Padman]

We love Audible. This is how you go to bed.

[Dax Shepard]

I love audible. I swear by audible. I can't wait to listen to the Orwell 1984 off this list. I'm also doing Fleas by autobiography right now, which I'm obsessed with. I can't get enough Audible in my life every night. Go to audible.comdax and discover all the years best waiting for. That's audible.comdax.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

He'S an object.

[Dax Shepard]

He's an object.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

How are you? Hi, welcome.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm sorry I'm late.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, that's okay. Thanks for having me here.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Oh, you smelled the light bulb.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, you too.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you already comment on that?

[Monica Padman]

I did not.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you guys embrace?

[Monica Padman]

We shook hands. I'm wearing perfume. Is it possible it's me?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, I think it's her. It's definitely not me.

[Dax Shepard]

No, no. Go smell him.

[Monica Padman]

Only if it's allowed.

[Dax Shepard]

Only if I really smell everywhere.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you do smell nice.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you do.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You do. This was just given to me by someone else. By somebody else.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Well, that person smells great, so maybe she smelled great. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

My compliments to the former owner of that sweater. Oh, no, no.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

She's a stylist, so perhaps she sprays everything before she gives it to me. Okay, I'm being dressed for the next month.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a fun first question. Is most of your wardrobe comprised of shit you've collected on sets?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Only one time I had taken my clothes from a movie and then we had to do promotion of the movie. And so I just changed out the clothes I had with the new version for the promotion. My lawyer called me and she said, sony called. You have to send back the new versions. Oh, no. That you replaced. So there is a risk you can get caught.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a ding, ding, ding. Because my only really sad experience I ever had with wardrobe was Sony.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

Because in this movie, Zathura, they made this really cool astronauts outfit for me. And again, there were several and I wanted it. And they said, no, you can't have it. And I said, well, I'll pay for it. And they said, no, you can't pay for it. And then years, years later, and I know you're not on social media, but like 15 years later, someone sent me a link to it being sold on ebay. For like 15 bucks. And it sold or something completely insignificant.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Are you serious?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. The whole astronaut outfit. And I was like, those sons of bitches. I would have given them more than $15.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Wait, who was selling it?

[Dax Shepard]

I imagine Sony just was like, we.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Got to give it all 15 bucks.

[Dax Shepard]

We got to get 15 bucks by Friday.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, my God, we're going to be kicked out of these offices.

[Monica Padman]

They maybe thought that it was going to be such an enormous hit that it would be at the Smithsonian and then it would end up being worth millions and millions.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, maybe we were both thinking the same thing, and then it came out and just didn't really.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

It's ebay.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I think it's ebay time.

[Dax Shepard]

It can also be, you know, the company that made it, they could add duplicates. I don't even know. I don't want to throw it as.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

A Zathora branded thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Great question. I have forgotten.

[Monica Padman]

We'll have.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Okay, got it. Yeah. Maybe you can have an intern.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. This is always a stressful question to hear out loud, especially in public, but do you remember meeting me?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, I was actually wrecking my brain trying to.

[Dax Shepard]

I'll paint a picture for you.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know the year it would be between 2008 and 2013, because that's when I shot the show. But I was at Universal shooting Parenthood, and I'm outside my trailer and I see a young gentleman across the way in front of one of the bungalows, I think, having a cigarette. Were you a smoker?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

You weren't a smoker. I could tell from 100 yards. I'm like, that's just how.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, my God. Yes, I do remember.

[Dax Shepard]

I could tell by your body posture.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I just recalled this. Yes. And I remember you were shooting there.

[Dax Shepard]

And I strolled across this great divide, like, oh, my God.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly the date. Of course.

[Dax Shepard]

I just harangued you.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's right. I was doing a reshoot for a movie and you were shooting. I remember exactly where it was. It was towards Jesus Christ. I don't know any of the names of the streets out here. It was by whatever was closer to the street where you enter. Anyway, I totally remember that.

[Dax Shepard]

I mostly, out of curiosity, had to confirm, like, can I possibly be recognizing that's Jesse Eisenberg from this far away just by how he's standing? Yes.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

There's no one with my posture that would possibly be in a movie, so. Yeah. Except me. I remember you were so sweet. Yeah. I was there for one day doing reshoots.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I came over, I'm like, I could tell as you from. And you're like, okay, trying to take that in. Like, that's a weird icebreaker. And then we had a nice 15, 20 minute chat.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know why I remember you smoking, but maybe the camera, maybe the.

[Monica Padman]

Cat smoked and you were holding it.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, I think I was holding it for him. Yeah. He just like asked me to hold it, I swear. That's interesting. Maybe I was. Maybe I was going through a moment.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you ever smoke?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I've tried to smoke to relieve stress. I tried to take it up and thought, like, this will help my personality, and it just doesn't. I thought, this will calm me and it does. That little trick of you're finally breathing for the first time where you're taking, like, deep breaths. I always thought if they can come up with a cigarette that didn't make me nauseous, I'd be a heavy smoker.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's kind of poisonous. I mean, I'm addicted to nicotine greatly, but not cigarettes. I smoked for, I don't know, 15 years and it's miserable. The first, I don't know, a hundred cigarettes. You got to really stay, stick with us.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You do. Okay. I tried to. And then I also tried to smoke during a movie where I was just feeling so stressful. And then this young assistant prop woman, she was really nice and we always used to talk and she was very friendly and nerdy and she thought that we were kindred spirits. And then she saw me smoking one day and she came over to me and she just said, I thought you were different.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And I always felt such shame.

[Dax Shepard]

You had betrayed.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes. Whatever thing that happened.

[Dax Shepard]

Cause see, that was like a cool guy move.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

She didn't know that I was feeling deep, genuine anxiety and just trying to do anything to relieve myself. It was before I was taking, like, antidepressants. I was just trying anything to regulate late. Exactly. And it occurred to me after she said that that, oh, right. Maybe it doesn't work on me anyway.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I don't want you to say that, but okay, I do.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think you need to pick it back up or anything.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, but I like his encouragement more.

[Dax Shepard]

My over my overarching hunch is that you've convinced yourself there's a lot of things you can't pull off that you could.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Maybe that's true.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So my gut's telling me you think you weren't pulling it off, and you probably were.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You know what? That's very Savvy of you. And as I get older, I start thinking more along those lines. Maybe I've kind of self defined in a way that's actually maybe not the most accurate.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, this is one of Monica and I's longest standing battles. I think she's cooler than she thinks she is. I encouraged her to shave.

[Monica Padman]

I think I'm pretty cool, but he wants me to go extreme. He wants me to shave my hair.

[Dax Shepard]

No, no, just the side I thought she could really pull off, like kind of a punk.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

One side.

[Dax Shepard]

One side shave, Sure.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I like that side.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Picture her in that.

[Monica Padman]

I like it too.

[Dax Shepard]

Doesn't it look good?

[Monica Padman]

It's not that I don't think I'm cool enough for that. It's just not me.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, how do you know it's you until you try on some luxe?

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's true because Speaking of cigarettes for hallo, was Mary Kate and Ashley one of them current era. And so I was holding a cigarette the whole time. I've never smoked in my life and so I wasn't smoking, but I was holding it and I was like, she got it. It is cool.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Unfortunately, there's a line in Manhattan where he goes, I don't smoke cuz it gives you cancer. But I look so incredibly handsome with a cigarette in my mouth.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, it's true. You don't want it to be true, but it is true.

[Dax Shepard]

Have you ever bought a car and then you got in the car and you're like, oh fuck, I don't think I can do this.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, I got an Airstream.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay, I got to pull behind a trailer.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, exactly. But I guess I feel that way anytime I'm going in reverse. But also, just like you'd stop at these campsites, I'd travel with my family and I would have to unhook the thing and I would always be asking for help. I was always just like the campsite's little brother, just asking for help for everybody. And can you show me how to use this tool that I carry around for some reason?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you kind of answer the question. So that was my hobby as a kid. So I'm pretty mechanical. And we have a tour bus and I say to my wife every time we're in it, because the entire time we're operating, it's breaking. Like it's breaking real time. As fast as I can fix anything. There's too much gadgetry on it, of course. And I always say to Chris, I'm like, what is Your normal person who's not a mechanic do with these recreational vehicles. Is yours in constant need of something 100%.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I mean, it flooded in Minnesota in the deep, deep winter. And of course the thing would freeze and break if I didn't do anything about it. And luckily mechanics, they saw me in a movie, was the only reason I got to get in there.

[Dax Shepard]

You think the big things, buying the item. Oh, no, my friend. That's basically a down payment.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly. I mean, they were just mice in the inside of the Airstream. Not on the inside of the Airstream. On the inside of the inside of the air. Like within the two walls?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Did they eat any plumbing? Because mice ate plumbing in my bus and it was so expensive because I have all this water. You know, I have two toilets and shit. They fucking ate through the plastic hoses. We went on vacation. All the water dumped on all the electronics, short circuited everything in the bus. The shades, the lights, everything.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And then you found out later this.

[Dax Shepard]

Was the work of mice.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

A coordinated effort by mice.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

What's the solution here?

[Dax Shepard]

New fucking plumbing.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

But I mean, how do you get mice?

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. How do prevent the mice?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, first I went on a mice killing spree. Which was I put traps out in the bus with yummy, yummy peanut butter. Those ones were ethical and this fell on my sister. Unfortunately, she had to go release them in Griffith Park. I assume they came right back.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

The ones where it closes in the little box.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's like a little resting area before we take our next trip.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Right, right. And they get the peanut butter.

[Dax Shepard]

What did you find? Just bits of foam chewed up everywhere and turds.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I took it into a place and they said yes, they had eaten the entire inner foam lining of the thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Here's the other thing about mice. They love eating plastic.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Is that what it is? Are they actually e. They're eating and spitting it out.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great point. I didn't see how much debris there was underneath.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But yeah, they love insulation and wood.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

These things are not food.

[Dax Shepard]

No, but they thrive on.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, they really do. We're currently trying to sell it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that sounds right.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, this is a great place to offer it. We've made a great pitch for the product.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I think my wife was just asking the school moms if anybody knows anybody. But this is a far wider reach.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh yeah, yeah, exactly. Is there an info mouse ridden please in the comments.

[Dax Shepard]

What's year in the size?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

2017. 16 foot Bambi Sport.

[Dax Shepard]

Beautiful.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I would say good condition, but now you know, riddled mice. Yeah, I was going to say I've never had mice, but now you know. But I got it. I fixed it up. It's mint condition.

[Monica Padman]

That's gorgeous.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

So is it infoarmchairexpert.org?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, that's exactly right.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And just give me a number. I don't want to have to start going through a whole thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, and you don't want to be in a long term negotiation. Just throw out your final number.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I'm easy. We want to sell.

[Dax Shepard]

The seller is very motivated.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Where do you keep this?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I live in New York, so I keep this on my mother's lawn in New Jersey.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. And so when you guys want to go on a trip, you drive. Do you rent a truck or do you own a truck?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

During the pandemic, I bought my very first car, which was just a Jeep Cherokee. I never had a car in New York. Then I gave it to my sister. So I don't have the car anymore either. So I have to go to my sister's, get the car, then I have to drive to my mom's. So it's a great way to visit your whole family.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Only to get 20 miles down the road and realize there's a major mechanical issue with the trailer.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's exactly it.

[Monica Padman]

Are you confident driving even though you've never had a car until a couple years ago?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, good.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes. This is a good question. I'm confident. My dad was a taxi driver in New York right before I was born, and he taught me how to drive. And so I guess the word would be cocky.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Not cocky.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Arrogant driver. Fearless to a dangerous degree.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, this is great. So cars can be so healing because you're saying you feel very confident and sounds like you're aggressive in the car.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Ooh, I see where you're going.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Why don't I use that as the real me? And smoke a cigarette out the window of my Jeep?

[Dax Shepard]

Spit tobacco out the windows.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

You have a bisque jar like in.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Crazy Shaved head blowing in the wind. One side of her head blowing in the wind, the other side having a sheer breeze.

[Dax Shepard]

This is a good movie. This is Monica and Jesse Go Wild.

[Monica Padman]

Because I'm pretty tame as well.

[Dax Shepard]

But I do think the car. So we. Okay. You were brought home as a little tiny bambino to Queens.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Wow. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, but then when do we move to New Jersey?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you're already impressed.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

That's nothing. Very cursory. I'll get deeper.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Are you serious? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I have your physical from 10th grade.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Well, you're in luck because it's the same physical right now. Yeah. We went to New Jersey when I was five years old, and then I grew up in the suburbs, but I left when I was 18, so I got my license at 19. So this explains the driving situation here.

[Dax Shepard]

I was counting down the days till 16. I could not wait. But I grew up in a rural area of Michigan outside of Detroit. And in New Jersey, clearly kids were driving. Right. You were probably anxious to get your permit and all that.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Not really. What happened was I was starting acting, and then I also was going to a high school in New York City, and so I was taking the bus into New York City every day from New Jersey to go to high school. And I was around no one driving.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Right.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

So, like, I was only around city kids. In fact, I had to use a fake address to be. There was city public school.

[Dax Shepard]

This is the performance art. Senior year. Yes, yes.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Every time you reference anything, I'm going to be in shock.

[Dax Shepard]

I want you to pace yourself, though.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I think I could sustain the same level of.

[Dax Shepard]

This is. It's kind of like an acting exercise.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. This is your greatest day of your life. So no matter what. That would be an acting exercise. This is the greatest day of your life, no matter what information you hear. And then I would say, thank you for coming in, Mr. Eisenberg. We just got your lab results back, and unfortunately, you are showing a very large tumor in your neck. You've got a couple months left.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Right. Wait, sorry. What's happening is the greatest day of.

[Dax Shepard]

Your life, despite the information I give you?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, this is the. Wait, you mean it's like the greatest day and then I go to the doctor?

[Dax Shepard]

No, the acting exercises. This is the greatest day of your life, despite whatever information I get it. So. Okay, got it. Mr. Eisenberg, let's take this back.

[Monica Padman]

Try it one more time.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, got it. Did you cut, Rob?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. You cut.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, don't ever cut. Wait till I yell cut. Yes, we did get your sonogram. Back of your chest, and you have a very large mass.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

How large are we talking here?

[Dax Shepard]

8 to 12 inches, it seems like on the skin. So virtually your full left lobe of your lung.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

So my whole lung is this other thing?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

This is incredible, you know, because I have not seen an episode of the Wire, and I keep promising myself, if I ever find myself bedridden, if I get the flu or in this case, obviously it's something much more long term. I'LL finally.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. Well, congratulations. You're gonna love it. It's a great show. Be patient of the first three episodes, okay? It takes a minute for the writing to set in.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's fine. Obviously, I have the time. And is the right lung okay? Because I've also not done Breaking Bad.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not great, but it'll make it through, I think, both series.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Really? Yes. Oh, this is great. The left is that bad?

[Dax Shepard]

The left is not great.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Okay, great. Can I do the old sitcoms? You know, 10 years of 20 episodes of Perfect Strangers, you're probably not gonna get through Cheers. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I'm not gonna make it through Cheers.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. What a great show to go out, watch.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay. This is great.

[Dax Shepard]

This is a good acting casting. Yeah. You did a really good job. If I'm your teacher, I'm.

[Monica Padman]

At first I thought it was so good that at first I was like, he still doesn't get it. But he really got it.

[Dax Shepard]

He got it.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I was playing I need to do.

[Dax Shepard]

A few minutes on mom and dad because they both have very, very colorful, interesting backgrounds. So, as you said, your father was a taxi driver, but he also worked at hospital, and he also became a college professor of sociology. This doesn't seem like a possible trajectory. That sounds like an immigrant story.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, yeah. His dad worked at a cafeteria. And then my dad was the first one to go to college in the family. Now he's a college teacher.

[Dax Shepard]

So he's a bright guy. Yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Really smart. Smart.

[Dax Shepard]

How long was he driving a cab and working at the hospital?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

A few years in Queens. Oh, no. He worked at the hospital after that. When I was a kid, he worked in hospital administration, and then the hospital merged with another hospital, and so, yeah, he started teaching.

[Monica Padman]

Where does he teach?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

He teaches through the Sunni system at a school called Empire State. It's part of, like, the State University of New York system.

[Dax Shepard]

Sunni, as in opposite Shiite.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And which is weird because my mom is Shia.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Monica Padman]

That's complicated.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And I was raised Jewish.

[Dax Shepard]

That's Conan neutral.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. The two fronts met in the middle.

[Dax Shepard]

That's something we can both agree on. And then mom was a choreographer in a high school.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, my God. That's not even on the.

[Dax Shepard]

She was also a clown by the name of Kalana. What was her name?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Bonabini.

[Dax Shepard]

Bonabini.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Wait, so that's on the Internet or.

[Dax Shepard]

I got your mom's number.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Which is also on the Internet.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Leaning to the number thing, can we.

[Dax Shepard]

Take one second to recognize that we've interviewed 800 people? No one's mother was a clown. I mean, you gotta acknowledge a very novel thing.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, she was not Bozo or like Barnum and Bailey Circus. She was doing birthday parties in the Tri State area of New Jersey. I guess I never perceived it as my mom the clown because people didn't know. Wasn't like, wow, your mom's that clown. It was more like, this is her job. On the weekends.

[Dax Shepard]

You never had a friend over that had this eerie feeling he or she had met your mother before, and then hours later went, oh, my God, did your mother do my fourth grade?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Could you just put on tons of makeup for a second?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Real quick. Blow up 100 balloons. You know, it's actually funny. Now that people know me, people do come up to me and said, your mom did my birthday party. Because they've linked it somehow. But she was really great. So every Saturday and Sunday, she would basically wake up six in the morning, tune her guitar, blow up a hundred balloons. And so it was disciplined for a really silly performance.

[Dax Shepard]

She was a business owner. She was a hustler.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, Actually, I didn't think of it that way.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's like a good model to have as a mom, I think.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And as a performer, because I work with a lot of performers who I still have to get over the hump of thinking this is so silly, what I do.

[Dax Shepard]

Embarrassment.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You know what I mean? Yeah, embarrassment. And I just never really had that because I saw somebody who took it so seriously. My mom never said, so weird. Today I was in makeup. It was just like, yeah, this was my job. This is what I'm doing. And I took it really seriously.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. So now, I guess this is common knowledge. I didn't know this before researching you, but when I told my wife excitedly from the bedroom, you're not going to believe who Jesse Eisenberg's little sister is.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, yeah? Yeah. Did she know?

[Dax Shepard]

She knew immediately. But do you know, Monica? His little sister was the Pepsi girl. The Pepsi girl. The one you're thinking of.

[Monica Padman]

I love her.

[Dax Shepard]

Everyone loved her. She was universally loved.

[Monica Padman]

And so she was working at the same time you were before.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

She's 10 years younger, but she was through a series of weird, fluky things, was in movies and very popular commercials when. Yeah, I was like 14.

[Dax Shepard]

But you were already acting. Right. Because your first. You were an understudy at 12 years old for a Tennessee Williams play.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

That's pretty nuts. How do we get to.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I was doing children's theater in New.

[Dax Shepard]

Jersey and again, is this something mom just put you in?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

No, she put my older sister who was shy, and I just wanted to be with my older sister. I didn't really like performing. It was on the weekends, children's theater every Saturday and Sunday. And then I had troubles in school and so I just wanted to do anything to have an outlet from school. So I started doing community theater. It's like non professional, but with adults in same towns. And it was an amazing outlet for. And then an agent from New York had come, seen something, and asked me if I would go on an audition for this play. It was summer and smoke this Tennessee Williams play.

[Dax Shepard]

So 12 was your first professional audition and you got it?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Well, I got like the understudy.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's a lot more than I've gotten on Broadway.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Well, sure, but it was a really weird job to get at 12 because it was like, oh, you know how you like doing that acting thing? You're not gonna get to do that at all.

[Dax Shepard]

You're gonna get to watch a lot of acting.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, exactly. And then you're gonna play poker and smoke cigarettes backstage with all the other people who are kind of waiting for somebody else to get sick.

[Dax Shepard]

Pray, injury.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly that. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So do you have to go there every night? If you're an understudy, you go there every night.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Again, for me, this was just a dream come true because I get to go to New York City every night. I didn't have to, like, interact with people at school because I had this other thing and I couldn't have friends anyway because I was leaving. I got to miss Wednesdays in school because they do the day shows and Broadway. It was just great.

[Dax Shepard]

You remember how much you were making?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I think I do. Or at least I can figure it out because it was the Roundabout Theater on Broadway, which they had these special contracts where you can make something like $220 a week.

[Dax Shepard]

It wasn't thousand.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Gosh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Dax Shepard]

Because if I was 12 and a couple grand a week to come hang and play poker.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, God, no. There's like no economy for that kind of thing. I made money when I was just about to turn 16 and I got on a TV series. Get real. This is Fox show. That's when I made money. And we were all just in a state of bewilderment.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, I bet. Even though at that point little sister had also generated a bunch of money.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Actually she started Making money at like 5 years old. And it was crazy. My parents are wonderful, wonderful people. And this is not a but this, this is an end. This. And when my sister made money when she was younger, it was just like a weight off the shoulders of my house. You just felt it. And they didn't even want to take her money. You know, there's the rules. It was just for the first time, the lid went off the pot. And again, this is all for her, for college.

[Dax Shepard]

But there's a safety net somewhere in the mix.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Somebody loses a leg. Yeah, it was like amazing. And then I got on this TV show and then since that moment, it all just feels like a joke to me. Getting money for acting, the whole thing just feels like a joke to me and my family and my wife. It all just feels like. This is ridiculous. I can't believe no one's telling them they don't have to do this. That we would all be here anyway.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, yes, we would. Would we go promote? That's the question. I've been told that's what you get paid to do, is go promote. Unless it's a podcast. Then you would do that for free as.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh my God. Well, it's the armchair expert. I mean, can I pay? Even the promoting thing. I just got back from Poland promoting the movie that I filmed in Poland and being there to promote it. I was staying in literally the nicest hotel in Warsaw. And it was the hotel that we would pass every day as we went to our bad apartments. And it's so funny. So I'm like, oh my God, this is what it feels like to promote a thing versus when you're making a thing and there's a small budget for making an independent film and there's no money for any of that stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, no one asked for this, but I think the finances of this would interest people who are not in show business. So if you think about a studio has a budget to promote the movie and they're trying to get it in front of as many eyeballs as possible. And so they have many options. They can buy a TV commercial in a 30 second spot is going to cost however many tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Versus we send you to Camel, we show a clip of it and you talk about the movie. Movie, we can count that as basically two ad spots. So by their math, they just save $200,000. So if they're going to send you out there, my God, they'll spend five grand on your hotel room. Don't give a shit. And they'll pay for you to get a massage, and it's a big savings for them. So it's the best we ever live.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You have just explained something that I have tried to articulate for a long time because it sounds like a little inside baseball of the movie industry, but what you just described is the very strange economy of promoting a movie.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And they have a set budget. They're like, we're going to spend 30 million marketing this or 5 million, whatever it is.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

So you doing that one magazine thing is the equivalent of them buying an ad in that same magazine, which would cost way more than your $150 hotel room. But for us, the trickle down, just ripple effect of it is you feel like this is crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

It's the only time you feel like a movie star.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly. And the movie I made was $3 million, which, again, this sounds a little insidery baseball, but it's like very, very little money to make, like, a real movie that requires tons of sets, etc.

[Dax Shepard]

Absolutely.

[Monica Padman]

Speaking of when you just said it's the only time you feel like a movie star, do you like feeling like a movie star?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I just literally came from a hotel where I asked them to put me in a smaller room because it makes me uncomfortable. I don't know if that's the New York thing. I just don't like too much. Smaller room. Yeah. My bags are currently at the front desk because they're getting the smaller room ready. I feel a little out of sorts.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I feel a little weird. I feel like it's also wasteful. Like, if there's a room that I'm not gonna be in a lot, I don't want it to exist, you know?

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

It's also like New York living, though. You would never get an extra anything in New York. You'd never get an extra closet in New York. You would put a friend there you don't like.

[Monica Padman]

Attention would be my guess also.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, I mean, I guess I like it and hate it.

[Dax Shepard]

Gangly hillbilly crosses the parking lot to say, hey, I could tell you, Jesse Eisenberg, by what you're saying, that was.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

The parking lot of Universal Studios where you were filming a major popular show.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I already got through one round of security, I suppose.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so you were already on that trajectory. You've said a couple times school is miserable. What version? I mean, I guess I have hunches.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh. I really had a very bad.

[Dax Shepard]

Were you shy and nervous?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

No, no, no. I was hysterically crying when I was four years Old. I got kicked out of preschool because I couldn't leave my mom. I guess I maybe thought of it as separation anxiety or something, but it was just. I was crazy. I mean, I went to a mental institution when I was 13 because I went crazy and left school for a year.

[Dax Shepard]

You did?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I was like a very troubled kid. I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

Because of anxiety?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, severe anxiety and all this stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Ocd.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, ocd. But it was more just like I couldn't go to school. It just killed me. When I was in first grade, I cried every day. Sorry. It's kind of like a funny story. But it's also sad. Whatever.

[Dax Shepard]

If you were me, those are the best kinds.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like, sad if you were me, funny if you're basically anybody else. But I cried every day of first grade to the point where if I didn't cry on the bus ride, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, on Friday, the bus driver would give everybody Tootsie Roll Pops. And so I tried to not cry.

[Monica Padman]

On the bus so that everyone could get their Tootsie.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And then on Friday, literally on Friday, you'd hear, down my block, don't cry, Jesse. People chanting at the bus because they would get Tootsie Roll Pops. So I would be holding it in until I got to school. Then I was allowed to cry.

[Monica Padman]

Aw, this is heartbreaking.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, here's my hope, is that it was so endearing that it got you out of getting bullied for it.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You know what's so weird? I always wanted to be bullied because I thought it would give me a reason.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

For some reason I wasn't.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's really kind of life affirming, to be honest, because I do think even shitty kids have some critical mass of suffering. Okay, he's already too fucked up.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, maybe that's it.

[Dax Shepard]

They'll push, push, push. And then there's a moment where their actual conscious kicks in.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I think that's a really good point.

[Dax Shepard]

So that's weirdly kind of hopeful that you were crying that much and they were just going, don't cry, don't cry. Not like if you. You fucking baby.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's really weird. I actually never considered why. Maybe that's what it was.

[Dax Shepard]

I think so.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I was in sixth grade this one time. It was right before I left school. This kid, I never talked to him ever. And he picked up some wood chips and he threw them. And it was kind of in my direction, but it wasn't at me at all, I promise you. Because I didn't know this person, I promise you guys, I was like, you're not going to believe me. I was so desperate for them to hit me so I could have a reason for my misery, so I can pin it on something, so I can tell my mom, no, I'm crying because this kid, I even knew his name because I was trying to concoct a story in my head where this kid was my torturer. And that's why school was.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

But it wasn't. And it wasn't even at me. And that's in some ways like the saddest thing of all. I couldn't have a place for it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

What parent do you think it was harder? I mean, it's hardest on you. Let me say that first as a parent, that would be absolutely heartbreaking for me to know. My kid gets on the bus and cries the whole way to school every day.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I weirdly guess that dad would be in a very big panic that this world's gonna be too hard for a boy and that he somehow has got to toughen you up. And how does he do it?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's exactly what happened. But I didn't think of it that way.

[Dax Shepard]

He probably so overcome, oh, this poor boy is gonna get destroyed.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's exactly what happened. So he would like push me back to school. And then when I got out of the institution, it was basically like, if I don't go to school, then I go back to this place. Which was terrible. He was doing tough love out of his fear.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm sure that you were gonna suffer your whole life.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And also the fact that he was probably right, which is that if I just did it and committed to it and didn't have the option to not do it, I would probably learn to be okay.

[Dax Shepard]

What was the institution like?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

It was genuinely terrifying.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you mean any sexy Ali Sheety types that were like misunderstood? I have kind of a fantasy about falling in love at one of these places.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, yeah?

[Dax Shepard]

Does that make any sense?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I don't recall thinking, this is a great opportunity for me.

[Dax Shepard]

You can see the movie in your head, right? The teenagers that go to the derelict center. And then she's really hot and misunderstood and she just needs to talk about her dad to you and everything will be fine.

[Monica Padman]

Very vulnerable.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I'm sensing we were different 13 year old boys. I didn't go in there thinking, like, I can clean up, you know, every cloud.

[Dax Shepard]

I would be thinking cohabitation with other teenagers, what might happen.

[Monica Padman]

That's probably why you didn't have to go there.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, exactly, because you were doing that in school and everybody thought you were awesome. No, I remember asking this one kid for his shoelaces so I can kill myself. And then I was brought into a soft room with a deflated volleyball.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God, no.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And I remember he was the coolest kid. I don't know what that means.

[Dax Shepard]

At the time, he was the Jack Nicholson character.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly that. And I remember asking him for the shoelaces thinking like, oh, he's gonna think I'm cool. I don't know what the equivalent is. Like going up to the biggest guy on the jail yard and punching him in the face. You know, I was doing, I guess the equivalent, but it was also punished.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. We are supported by Amazon Prime. You might think of prime as your gateway to incredibly fast free shipping on all your Amazon orders, which it definitely is. But prime is so much more than that. Being a Prime member gives you access to Prime Video, Amazon Music music, Prime gaming, ultra fast grocery delivery, and tons of other benefits.

[Monica Padman]

It's a game changer, especially during the holiday season. Want to get in the holiday spirit while relaxing at home? Press play on a holiday playlist on Amazon Music or stream a festive movie on Prime Video. You've got an instant ticket to holiday cheer.

[Dax Shepard]

Sounds like a great night. Another way prime saves the holidays. Let's say a coworker got you a holiday present and you somehow forgot to get them something, seamlessly shop for their gift on Amazon.com and then use prime to get free one day or same day delivery. So it's like they were on your gift list all along. So what are you waiting for? Become a Prime member today and get more out of whatever passions you're pursuing, whatever you're into. It's on Prime. We are supported by Audible. Audible's best of 2024 picks are here. Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio Entertainment. Entertainment. Like a stunning new full cast production of George Orwell's 1984. This is the one I am most excited to indulge myself with.

[Monica Padman]

I'm so excited to listen to James, which is a new title by Percival Everett that is very, very hot right now.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, there's so many good ones on the list.

[Monica Padman]

We love Audible. This is how you go to bed.

[Dax Shepard]

I love Audible. I swear by Audible. I can't wait to listen to the Orwell 1984 off this list. I'm also doing Fleas by Autobiography right now which I'm obsess with. I can't get enough Audible in my life every night. Go to audible.comdax and discover all the year's bests waiting for you. That's audible.com Dax we are supported by.

[Monica Padman]

Addie I know about Addie. The little Pink pill, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, that's right. Addy is the FDA approved pink pill clinically proven to boost desire in certain premenopausal women who are bothered by a low libido.

[Monica Padman]

I love this. It's really nice that there's an option out there for women who are dealing with low desire and I like that. Addie's non hormonal and created by a woman for women. Addie is helping women feel like themselves again and that's really important.

[Dax Shepard]

It really is. So arm cherries. If your libido could use a little jump start, Addie's got you covered.

[Monica Padman]

Learn [e-mail] that's a d d y I.com Addie or Flavant is for premenopausal women with Acquired Generalized Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder HSDD who have problems with low sexual desire in the past who have low sexual desire. No matter the type of sexual activity, the situation, or the sexual partner, the low sexual desire is troubling to them and is not due to a medical or mental health problem, problems in the relationship, or a medicine or other drug use. Addie is not for use in men or to enhance sexual performance. Your risk of severe low blood pressure and fainting is increased if you drink one to two standard alcoholic drinks close in time to your ADDI dose. Wait at least two hours after drinking before taking Addi at bedtime.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Your risk of severe low blood pressure.

[Monica Padman]

And fainting is also increased if you take certain prescriptions over the counter or herbal medications or have liver. Liver problems, low blood pressure and fainting can happen when you take addi. Even if you don't drink alcohol or take other medicines. Do not take if you are allergic to any of the ingredients in Addi. Allergic reactions may include hives, itching or trouble breathing. Sleepiness, sometimes serious, can occur. Common side effects include dizziness, nausea, tiredness, difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep and dry mouth. See full PI and medication guide including boxed [e-mail] PI or call 844 pink.

[Dax Shepard]

Pill Addie that's Addy. We are supported by Shutterfly Shutterfly's custom photo gifts are a great way to commemorate the big moments from your year. A wedding, a new baby, a new puppy. Put them On a canvas print, an engraved ornament, or in a photo book. Monica, some of the best gifts I've ever received in my life were from you using Shutterfly.

[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

Men's bodies. They're beautiful calendars. I mean, aside from the bodies inside, they're just beautiful.

[Monica Padman]

They are. And a Cal calendar is such a good gift for anyone. You can make it funny like we did, but it can also be really sweet and personal about the year. It's a great gift.

[Dax Shepard]

Explore gifts like blankets, mugs, photo books and [e-mail] all easy to customize in minutes with your favorite photos. Enjoy. 40% off your Shutterfly. Order with code DAX40 and make something meaningful this year. Get free shipping on qualified orders. C site for more detail tales. Okay, so we're laughing about it, but were you terrified? Were you thinking at that point, there's something fundamentally broken with me and I'm not going to be able to function on this planet? Were you scared?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's how it felt. But, I mean, I still have that same weird dread underlying. But I'm on, like, antidepressants now, so it helps a lot. But, yeah, just that weird dread of the bottom is going to constantly drop out. It's weird. I'm doing this press tour and I just keep waiting for the bad thing to happen. We got good reviews. I was like, okay, that's good. And then the movie did well on the opening weekend. They made more money than they thought. I was like, that's good. So now something really terrible is going to happen to me. So I thought it was going to be the movie, but now it's like, no, I'm going to get hit by the car. It's not even get hit by the car. It's more like existential. Like, people are going to realize I'm a terrible some things. I live with this dread. I assume it helps me in some way.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I've heard you talk about harnessing it in a positive direction. I think that's virtually the only option you have on the table, is you got to learn to work with your character defects and exploit them for the good side and try to mitigate the downside.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes, I guess so. You have no choice.

[Dax Shepard]

I wrestle with this too. I write from a place of, you're a lazy piece of shit. You're a failure if you don't accomplish this. Everything is negatively motivated. And so I relate to it. When I hear you speak about it, I'm like, oh, yeah? Yeah. I do a Very similar thing. And then feeling guilt that I have to be motivated that way by self loathing and all this. And then hopefully some compassion and forgiveness and acceptance. Acceptance. You're that way. And okay, here we go.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. And I do so enjoy my work. I feel like I just won the lottery that I get to be able to do something I genuinely like. So that's really helpful. And also my work is emotionally cathartic because it's an emotional job. And so that's really helpful too. All the stuff around it is really kind of unnerving in terms of the negative motivation thing. We're in the arts and no one's really asking us now. You have an incredibly popular show, but probably at the beginning no one was begging you to do this. No one was begging you to be on parenting. You know, all the stuff we're doing has to be self motivating because no one cares. Like, oh, can you write a script today? No, no. Who gives a shit, right? And so, like, I wonder if we in some ways are looking for some kind of motivation because there is no external demand to do the thing. It's not like you have to punch in like you guys created this from nothing and it's turned into this thing now, forcing yourself to think in these weird ways to motivate yourself.

[Dax Shepard]

It's hard.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

It is, because I sit down, I write a script a year. My background is playwriting, but I don't really need to do that because I make money from acting. But I feel like I'm going to be a failure if I don't do it. And so I live with this dread of failure. And when I step back, sometimes I think, oh, maybe that's just the thing I create in my head to force myself to do the thing I like.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Is that possible?

[Dax Shepard]

No, I think it's possible. I also think it's fascinating that you can have, or in my case, it's like this split confidence. There's no self esteem at all in imposter syndrome and all this stuff. And then also this, you're a failure, which has innately in it some idea that I'm supposed to be special and super prolific and good.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes, yes, yes, that's fascinating.

[Dax Shepard]

So this dichotomy of I'm unworthy and I'm a fraud and also you're supposed to be doing great things, they're kind of incompatible.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's very true. And I'm not acting. My days look like this. I wake up in the morning, I'm depressed, but I'm So happy. I get to take my kids to school and I love my wife. I mean, that's not like an active thing. That's just something underlying the relationship.

[Monica Padman]

I'm sure some days you have to think it.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes. Some days there's an active loving my wife, and some days there's just a passive, I love you, honey, and keep that in your mind. And then I just go into a real funk until the Library opens at 10:30, which is where I go right up until 10:30, a miserable, stupid failure. I can't believe I have the posture that Dax Shepard could recognize from 30ft away. No other person would ever be in a movie studio with my posture. And then the library opens and then I go and I start writing and I'm sitting there laughing at my own jokes like the most arrogant guy in the world. And then I'm crying cause I just wrote a monologue and I'm crying about the monologue and everything. And then I finish the thing and I go back home and I'm just such a loser. I'm such a loser. My wife's gonna leave me. I'm such a loser. My kid thinks I'm a bad role model and it's so weird. But while I'm doing the thing, in some ways, I guess I think I'm amazing. I guess so, because I'm sitting there writing it.

[Monica Padman]

Well, you've been validated there too.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Maybe, but my wife validates me as a person too. And my kid loves me.

[Monica Padman]

Work can be validated externally, but you cannot be validated externally.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, wow, that's a good distinction.

[Monica Padman]

You as a person and your character. That's gotta come from you. So it doesn't matter what your wife says. That's the juxtaposition.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I know this thing that I'm outputting, which is not exactly me, is gonna be okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I picked this up in AA and it's been kind of helpful in me governing how bad the self loathing can be. Because in there it says that self pity is the other side of the coin is self aggrandizement. You've still elevated yourself to some level where the universe cares is against you or you have bad luck coming your way. Right. Like today, you know something bad's coming. You're not that important to warrant this bad luck or the right sizing of.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

The justice, the piece of shit at the center of the universe.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, that's another great AA thing. We say a lot or I'm not much, but I'm all I think about.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's really funny. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And sometimes I'll be in that kind of self pity or it's self pity adjacent. Right, right, right. And I'll go, this is so indulgent. This is as indulgent of being a megalomaniac, which I would not tolerate from myself. So if I can turn that same ire onto the self loathing part and go like, it's still you feeling way too important.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That is brilliant. So you're saying you'd be so ashamed to be the arrogant person that you should also be ashamed to be this person who's like, self loathing as though you've committed some great.

[Dax Shepard]

You should. You can imagine someone going, get over yourself. You're not fucking so important and you're not suffering any more than anyone else.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

But then don't you feel like, oh my God, now I feel bad because I was a narcissist. I'm the worst narcissist in the. Yes. I think I'm the worst single narcissist.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. But I think it starts dissipating every one of these steps you take. So then it becomes a little manageable that your ego got away from you. I don't know.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Why does this cross over to aa? Because drinking is trying to solve those problems.

[Dax Shepard]

We have this weird dichotomy of being so important and then also zero self esteem.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And it's a thing that's very relatable to most people.

[Dax Shepard]

It seems to be very universal in aa. My hunch is it's probably universal to humans, but we have, for whatever reason, determined that was one of the main driving forces of the self obliteration.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes. That's really interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

Have you ever struggled with any addiction stuff?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

No, I can't. I've tried.

[Dax Shepard]

You've given it a go. Like the cigarettes.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

The cigarettes. I've tried to really commit myself to being a stoner. This is going to probably sum up my entire personality the following sentence. I've even experimented with coffee. Sometimes I'm like, I'm going to be a coffee drinker. And so I'll drink it four days in a row and then I'll just start to feel queasy and fall asleep. And so maybe like my body is kind of like a lightweight, I can barely drink, or I'm just really wired at a certain level that all that stuff is just not necessary.

[Dax Shepard]

It is quite obvious to me, talking to you, how Woody Allen would have been such an appealing figure when you were young.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because here's the guy that seems to have the Outward, same grab bag of anxiety and is processing it through art and it's hysterical.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And so this is a time for a really great and weird story, which is. You wrote something for Woody Allen?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, when I was 16, I got exposed to his movies, which maybe is a little late if you're going to be somebody like me. I could have used them a long time ago, earlier. Yeah. They could have shown it at the communal TV room at the institution. Would have been a great help. I would have gotten all the shoelaces. But basically I was writing a lot at the time. So the first screenplay I wrote was about Woody Allen changing his name to Woody at 16 years old, which he actually did. But I said it in modern day and in my life and situation and people liked it. And it got sent around to various people and ultimately wound up at his lawyer who sent me a cease and desist letter.

[Monica Padman]

What?

[Dax Shepard]

That's so flattering.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Well, at the time, it really was. My dad came into the room. I was living at home. I was 16. He goes, I have good news and bad news. I was like, what is it? What's going on? He's like, we heard back from Woody Allen. And I was like, there can't be any bad news after that. And he was like, it's a cease and desist letter from his lawyer. His lawyer, incidentally, who was his producer. I got to know. Of course, the guy never knew. I'm sure it was somebody sending this letter 10 times a day to various people. And it's so funny that you picked up on that. And what you described was exactly like that. For me, it's like somebody who's outwardly nervous and paranoid about all sorts of things, but who makes life work for him.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you hit him with that story on a first meeting or did you wait till you were filming for a while before you told him?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

He's just not interested in, like, people kind of. Yeah, that kind of thing. Like, hey, you get this. Wow, a coincidence about me. He's somebody who's been so fetishized by culture. So I think he's just so uninterested in people telling him, hey, I got a brother who looks like you. I never told him ever. I knew he wouldn't care or think about it. And then we were on a panel for a press for a movie, and somebody like, it was a French journalist said, did Jesse ever tell you, you know, you did this thing? I looked over at him going, this is just going to be a waste of a time frame. He's not going to care. And he goes, oh, interesting. No, I never knew that. And we never talked about it again.

[Dax Shepard]

Exactly as you connect.

[Monica Padman]

So you were right.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly. He just has no interest maybe in me. I mean, one time he asked me because he had met my parents at a play that he saw of mine. Then we worked together again. And the only personal question he ever asked me was, you still have the same parents.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

It was like a joke, but also indicating that there's nothing we're going to be talking about.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you chalk up the anxiety to just baseline biochemical or do you think any of it is nurture?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, yeah. I had some weird things in my life occur. Probably a lot of it was circumstantial, but I do really have great parents. But yeah, I had some really weird stuff when I was a kid and I'm maybe wired this way, but it's weird because my parents are actually comfortable, happy, normal parents.

[Dax Shepard]

They feel great in their own skin.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. So there's deep depression and paranoia in the family, but not for my parents. So, yeah, I think there was a series of weird things that happened when I was younger that probably accounted for all of my great personality problems.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, well, they got.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, I don't see them as problems. I find you very interesting to watch endlessly. So keep processing in public. Public.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I think people are going to really enjoy that. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so back to now, this radical flip flopping. It's no wonder you're waiting for the shoe to always drop. So you're in a mental institution and then click of a fingers and you're on a TV show in high school.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. So after that period, I started auditioning more for things. I went back to school. I was slowly integrating back into regular life while still auditioning and basically desperate to get a part because it meant I got to leave. And then I auditioned for a TV show. I was mostly auditioning for like off Broadway shows, which is what I was doing. And then there was an audition for this show, get on Fox and I got the part. It was just crazy. I mean, it sounds almost maybe arrogant to say I didn't know I was funny because I was doing off Broadway dramas like Tennessee Williams. I didn't know I was like a funny person.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And then the TV show was funny and my character was funny and he was the character narrating the show. So it was like a kind of comic voice. And I was auditioning and the people were laughing at the audition. These are like professional people. They had big shows on and I Remember thinking, like, oh, I could be funny. I was partly doing an impression of a kid I met who was really funny and wry and stuff. And so then it was like, oh, I have kind of a voice. And the show was basically asking me to do my voice. It wasn't asking me. Like, in a Tennessee Williams play, you're like, I'm doing a Southern accent, but I'm a Jewish kid from New Jersey.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. I'm fixing to go to the synagogue.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes. And swim at the water hole later on.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to do a mikvah a little later.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly. Well, very good.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, that's a great character. Southern religious Jew.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Tommy Schlamy, the best dramatic director in television history. He's a Texas Jew.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, is he really?

[Dax Shepard]

With the name Schwamy?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. It's not helpful. Does he have, like, an accent?

[Dax Shepard]

No, but he's so special.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

He was the West Wing guy, right?

[Dax Shepard]

He did West Wing. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I've always seen that name and wondered, why not change it? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

He did the pilot of Parenthood. And I said, just hearing that name, it's one that would make you or break you. And I see it's made you.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, he's so confident and cool.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

It's true. You live or die. Yes. Anyway, so I was on the show for a year, and it kind of went under the radar and got canceled.

[Dax Shepard]

Anne Hathaway. Had she already done a bunch of stuff?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

No, I think it was both of our first jobs.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, she was on it as well?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. We played siblings. Oh, wow. And she was like, I think a year older than me.

[Dax Shepard]

Would you be in scenes with your sister thinking, you've got to table your attraction to this person because you're playing.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I guess maybe my brain was just like. You never talked to that person?

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Not on your radar.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. Maybe I really was not.

[Dax Shepard]

I bet that's charming to gals. I bet over the years you've had something that would appear to be confidence because you've already just written it off as not an option, like an aloofness.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's so funny.

[Dax Shepard]

That might seem really.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I mean, my wife was my first date, and she is so cool and beautiful and amazing, and she was older than me. So I just went up to her, like, almost as a joke. I was like, would you ever go out with me? And I'd never said that to a person ever.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Would you go out with me?

[Monica Padman]

Would you ever go out with me?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

It was a joke.

[Dax Shepard]

Is she Australian?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

No, but she could be. She's so pretty. She's as pretty as an Australian. Is that.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God.

[Monica Padman]

She could be. She's so pretty.

[Dax Shepard]

You swear she was from Australia?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, go look at it.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, go one look. My wife and I actually dated for like 10 years and we broke up and I did date an Australian.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what I'm thinking.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That was my other girlfriend.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. A blonde Australian.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

That's its own interesting, really. Story I want to earmark. But yeah. Five year break that ends in marriage is incredible and unconventional.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, yeah, that's true. She was my first date. My wife wouldn't date me when I was 17. She waited until I was of age. There were like three year period where I couldn't go to a bar and she could go to a bar, you know, because I was 18, 19, 20. But I think I had the confidence to ask her out because it seemed so absurd.

[Monica Padman]

And she was like, yes, I will go out with her.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

No. She said, absolutely not. No. But then she was an assistant to a producer for a few years before she started teaching. And the producer wanted to read my screenplays. I was writing screenplays a lot. And so Anna, my wife, was the intermediary so she would have to read these things. And so she thought I was funny. And I reminded her of her father who was like funny Jewish.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, this is like sorrento. She kind of like fell in love with your words. Is that the name of the play?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Sereno Cyno Cyno, yes. You gave it the Parmesan cheese version of Cyrano.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I'm always straddling the line between Philistine and know what I'm talking about.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Right, right, right, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Like bullseyed it.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

The references are very clear, but you.

[Dax Shepard]

Add a T or an S, depending.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's right. So then we dated for 10 years. It was great. And now we're married. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a good story.

[Monica Padman]

Great story.

[Dax Shepard]

You were going to go to nyu, but instead you did a movie and then you ended up at the New School and you dabbled in anthro.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I've graduated in anthropology.

[Dax Shepard]

I have an anthro degree.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Wow. Can I ask why?

[Dax Shepard]

That's exactly why I was going to ask you.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I did because it was my wife's degree prior to me. What about you?

[Dax Shepard]

Through my own childhood, I just always felt outcasty. I didn't feel like I agreed with the vibe that was existing around me. I thought there had to be other ways. And Anthra was like, oh, not only are there other ways, there's like Very exotic. Interesting other ways.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, you mean to just live.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Culturally realizing how flexible culture is and how many versions are out there to try begs the question, are we even close to what version we'll be ultimately living in?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Because anthropology teaches you that cultures are not superior, inferior to each other.

[Dax Shepard]

Cultural relativism, we just got to learn why it functions the way it does, not whether that's good or bad. I find that very liberating.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Me too. Especially because you're trying to constantly be a good version of this society, but that in some ways it's a little randomized.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I'm feeling like it's unacceptable. How I'd like to be doing this. Oh, there isn't a right or wrong. That's comforting.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes. That's a really good point. My wife specifically, she grew up living in different places in Central America and Europe, and she just lives life totally different than anybody I know. She's an activist and she's politically minded, but she's just uninterested in, like, we just had a presidential election. She's uninterested in all of the numbers of the presidential election. She just kind of feels like they're helping people in need. She just doesn't have this sense of the rat race of modern life.

[Dax Shepard]

Is she less inclined to levy a verdict?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

She's uncynical. She's never criticized people. She's never. I mean, in 20 years with her, she's never looked over at me and rolled her eyes at something somebody said. And I'll ask her, like, wasn't that so stupid what that person said? She's like, no, I mean, they're going through a hard time.

[Dax Shepard]

It probably makes sense within their little sphere of culture.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly. And this is the way they exist. It's okay. They have trouble making friends. Just let them say that stuff to you. It's okay. Right.

[Monica Padman]

A lot of compassion.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly. She's never once uttered the phrase, that was weird. And partly that's, I guess, why I was also able to ask her out. She seemed very unjudgmental. She wouldn't think like, wow, no, you're ugly. She'll just take it at face value.

[Dax Shepard]

And then cultural pluralism is also one of your focuses.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes, that's because I graduated with a weird degree. The new school has these kind of eccentric degrees. So it was democracy and cultural pluralism, which was basically an anthropology degree.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Interesting. And then you're doing a bunch of acting while you're at the new schools.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, I would leave every other semester.

[Dax Shepard]

And is that where Libson was. The New School.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, wow. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

James Lipton.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

James Lipton. That's you on the Sorrento side of it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, that was.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I was never in acting classes there, but yeah, he ran inside the acting studio. Yeah, yeah, that's what it was.

[Dax Shepard]

But that was a new school presentation somehow.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly. It was.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you ever go to any of those weird lectures and ask questions?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I didn't. I knew them really. More from the. The Will Ferrell parody of them. Do you remember those?

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess you're young enough that it had already been parody.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Like it was hard to take that kind of thing seriously. And I was working with actors who are occasionally so pretentious that I was so turned off to that thing. What's the word that you. You know, just this kind of self important, sanctimonious version of actors.

[Dax Shepard]

I hated it too. But if I do some soul searching, I think it's probably because I thought maybe they were better than me that I haven't studied enough.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh yeah. Could understand feeling that way.

[Monica Padman]

You have the opposite. You've been working for so long and you were on Broadway. You're like, I've really done it.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

But no, I could see it having also the effect of, oh, wow, this is the real deal. This is the way you're supposed to talk about things. To me it just seems like self important pretense, as though your job is like more important than any other job in the world.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So you come onto my radar in the Squid in the Whale.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Which is such an incredible movie. Is that Noah Baumbach's first directing?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I think he had directed other movies that hadn't gotten the same amount of attention.

[Dax Shepard]

I saw that movie and I absolutely loved it. I love Jeff Daniels like crazy. I think he's one of the most unsung him in newsroom. Yeah, So I saw that and I thought you were incredible and I thought that movie was absolutely incredible. Is that Mark kind of. I already know the answer, I think. Which is you don't ever feel safe. But did it feel like, okay, the right people are noticing this? I have my foot in the door firmly.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I don't know how to describe it other than to say so briefly. It's like the kind of thing I've been in things that are popular and been in things that are unpopular and there's always a little period after the popular things come out where you do have. Yes. I would just call it exactly what you said, a feeling of security. Oh, I know. If I wanted A job in the next six months? I could definitely get one.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I don't know that it would be great or that I would love it, but I've been involved in so many of these things where something is really liked briefly and then you go back to the same thing six months later. It's always the case.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you have four years between Squid and the Whale and then Zombieland, which unless I'm mistaken, Zombieland's then the next big kind of thing.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, it was like a big movie.

[Dax Shepard]

So in those four years, where are we at mentally? Also, is there anyone you've isolated as I'm emulating that career or I would like that career. Were you thinking of what kind of actor you were aspiring to be?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

No. I mean, if anything, like, I grew up really liking Ben Stiller and Adam Sandler movies. Probably like every other kid on my block and every block in the world. Yeah, I guess I saw in Ben Stiller maybe before I noticed Woody Allen, maybe a kindred thing like, oh, I could be in movies as a good role in movies and not have to change too much about myself. But no, I never thought, like, I'm going to do that because as actors, you know, you have no control over anything. And also, weirdly, I was really just getting cast in dramas. Zombieland was a comedy, but all the auditions were very dramatic auditions. I was really not getting cast in those comedy things anyway. Even this movie I did right before Zombieland, Adventureland was a comedy, but the director wanted to make his bittersweet coming of age story. He didn't want to make a broad comedy.

[Dax Shepard]

Mottola, right?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Greg Mottola.

[Dax Shepard]

And that was a follow up to Superbad.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Well, that's the thing. It really wasn't. It was like Greg's life story in the 80s and this bittersweet thing. But because they billed it as exactly what you just said, people were disappointed in it because they thought it would be really funny, like super bad. It's interesting that you asked this and I haven't thought about this in like 20 years, but what you just described was I actually thought one thing might happen to me and that's not the thing that happened. I thought I could be in a long king poly or something like that, and I was just not cast in those roles.

[Dax Shepard]

Zombieland to me was so fucking incredible. I don't like zombie movies. I was like, who's Ruben Fleischer? This guy can fucking direct. There was a Metallica song in the movie, which there almost never is.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, you're right.

[Dax Shepard]

When you were Shooting Zombieland, did you have any sense while it was happening? Like, oh, yeah, this is pretty mega. This is going to be fucking awesome.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's the movie. I started smoking on that. I was told by the prop woman, who's a really nice person, who told me that she couldn't believe that I had transgressed so badly in her eyes. But probably what was happening at the back of my mind, I thought this thing is good and that I'm ruining it. And I would have panic attacks all the time. In fact, anytime I had to do a scene that was one of my audition scenes, I just froze up and I would start saying other lines. And then they told me we just got Bill Murray to sign on for a day in the movie. And I walked away and had another panic attack. So I was like, now people are going to see it. And I'm so. And I know that Ruben wanted Michael Cera to be in the movie. Ruben is a good friend of mine, so I could say this comfortably, has no filter. And didn't realize that him telling me that he wanted Michael Cera to be in it would make me feel uncomfortable.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And also didn't realize that sending me videos of Michael Cera while we were shooting at night. So I'd be on my computer.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And an email with the subject line, michael Cera. Funny. Video would be sent to all the cast.

[Dax Shepard]

This is crazy. He's kind of obsessed with Michael. Ceramic.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, he was obsessed with Michael Cerra. I'm sure. Who turned down the movie. I'm sure that's why I got to audition for it in the first place. And so every day I was just thinking of, oh, of course he wanted Michael Cera. And I could read the part with Michael's voice in the part way more than I could read it with my own voice. So I just felt like I was every day letting down the movie, and this was just, like a failure because of me. And then I just started having these weird fantasies. Of course I'm going to go home to visit my wife on a weekend, and Michael's going to be there in bed with her, like, hey, too late, buddy. And I've since met him. It's funny that he's, like the nicest person.

[Dax Shepard]

He's impossible to dislike.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

But just at the time, I was getting recognized on the street as him all the time. To the point where when I said to the people, no, I'm a different person, they was like, yeah, fuck you, you're him. It was a weird thing.

[Dax Shepard]

I think it's more common to have that than not, because mine was Zach Braff the whole early ride.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Thank you for saying that. It is more common than not. Every time I talk to an actor, it's always, oh, yeah, Mine is this person. And I was this for Michael, too.

[Dax Shepard]

And it takes a while to get comfortable with it now. And I've talked to Zach about it as well. It's like, I'm happy to pose in a picture and you think it's Zach, and that's great. I don't need to correct anyone. You were great in Garden State. Thank you.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I've signed a hot rod. This is an Andy Samberg headshot.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But that's the part that you don't think in the moment that it's happening to him. Everyone thinks I'm Michael Cera, and everyone thinks he's Jesse Eisenberg. You get that piece?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And he had, I think, told a story publicly about getting recognized at me at a bar or something. And I remember thinking, like, that was a fluke. Exactly. Whereas for me, I mean, literally, I got cornered in an ATM by somebody aggressive saying, like, yes, you are. Yes, you are. And I was like, okay, fine, fine, fine. I am, I am. And it was just like the weirdest existential crisis to be stuck in this vestibule going, I am the other person. I am the other person. Let's take a picture. One time my sister's friend said, do you look like the guy in that movie? I mean, you're obviously like a better looking version of him, but, like, you look like him. And I remember thinking, oh, that's so interesting. So the objective opinion is that I'm ugly to the point where she apologized for making that comparison.

[Dax Shepard]

Jesse. That happened to me while I was presenting on stage with this singer. We're midway through one of these awesome award shows, like this season's blah, blah, blah, and she just looks at me and she goes, you're so much better looking in real life. And I was really delighted and also like, but hold on now she thinks I'm rough like that.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's the objective truth as opposed to.

[Dax Shepard]

What she thought before, which is, why is this guy in movies? Which I would have related to her on.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Of course, we could have talked all day about that.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I was surprised that my sister's friend even complimented me in the moment.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, now the Social Network, it comes along. I guess I just want to know a little bit about how you came to be in that movie and what's it like do you go meet Fincher first? Do you audition? Was it written with you in mind? How's all that work?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I remember I was sent like three scripts that same day, and two things were bad, but I auditioned for those too. You know, it's like the nature of being an actor. You just get the parts you get. And I remember that script was, oh, my God, this is such a great thing to read. And then I just made the tape on my couch in New York and then they gave me the part.

[Dax Shepard]

And you got the part on the self submission?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, it was like a whole thing. It felt like it was like being sent to the CIA because my agent called and they were like, they liked your tape and they're gonna watch it again. I was like, okay, okay.

[Monica Padman]

What does that mean?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, exactly. They called me out to California and then I met with him for an hour. And David Finchett speaks in a very interesting way. I was there just waiting for him to say, you got in the movie or you didn't get in the movie, but it was. Instead he was like, just telling stories about old Hollywood. And I didn't know what they meant for me because you're sitting there, you're like a 27 year old actor, like, did I get the job? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then they called me later and said, yeah, yeah, you got the part. So. So it was a weird thing, you know, it's so strange. Like I've auditioned for things that I haven't gotten into, and you audition for them like 10 times and then they meet you. You read with this person and then read with that person, and then they'll straighten my hair and make me read again. This happens to me a few times. Straighten my hair so I can see what I look like as a gentile. And then you don't get those parts. And then a thing like this comes along and it was just. I made a tape at home with my little sister and they cast me.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. Wow. Did the repeated takes. Let me ask you this. Are you prone to insecurity on set? It sounds like you were having a lot of insecurity on Zombieland.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, no, this. I didn't. I felt like I was just in the shoes of this person. The anxiety in Zombieland was really. I'm an interloper here. They tried to cast somebody else who's definitely funnier than me. I still think definitely funnier than me. And he didn't want to do it. And everybody's disappointed that I show up every day. The Social Network. It just felt like I was prepared for it in a different way. The character was so interesting and socially aloof and cryptic and angry. And this is my comfort zone.

[Dax Shepard]

And is having the Sorkin dialogue put you immediately halfway there?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, it's so helpful because you. The scene's gonna be good either way. You didn't feel like you had to do some heavy lifting. So it felt like, oh, I could just play in my character.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So often it's not on the page. The thing that we all know, everyone's trying to get that day.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly. It requires the actors to do some work that they shouldn't be doing. For example, like making certain emotional transitions seem logical when actually they're not in the script. I mean, if you're working with great scripts like that, a great director. My experience was, oh, it's easy to be good in this. You get a bunch of takes. The script is amazing. You can't fail.

[Monica Padman]

A no brainer.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, kind of like that.

[Dax Shepard]

And you famously had no experience on Facebook. You joined for 30 seconds or something.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, I joined for 30 seconds to see what it was about.

[Dax Shepard]

I joined for like 12 days once, and I looked at everyone I went to junior high with, and when that was over, I was like, I don't know why I'm on here anymore.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

The thing you just described is the exact reason I'd be curious. I'm so curious to see what people look like. Just like, what do people grow into? It's so fascinating to think about.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, my conclusion was everyone I looked at, I'm like, oh, they're old. Oh, they got families. You can only do that so long before you go, then clearly I am too, because we're all the same age. Whatever I am looking at them with, I have to acknowledge is happening for me too.

[Monica Padman]

I love that movie. I rewatched it recently. It's still so great.

[Dax Shepard]

You did just rewatch it?

[Monica Padman]

I did, yeah. I was obsessed with it. I would just watch it over and over again for a while.

[Dax Shepard]

It was one of your movies.

[Monica Padman]

I have a handful of movies that I end up just watching every night.

[Dax Shepard]

Contagion.

[Monica Padman]

During the pandemic. Contagion.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I still haven't seen that. Is it great?

[Monica Padman]

It's so good.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I'm so curious.

[Monica Padman]

It's such a good movie.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Okay. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Devil Wears, Prada, Social Network.

[Dax Shepard]

7. We love 7. Interest got 2 on the list from.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Goodwill Hunting is my number one. That was the original.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Is it the kind of thing you could say every line to?

[Monica Padman]

I wouldn't want to be put to the test. Right now, because it's been a minute. But at one point, I could recite the whole movie.

[Dax Shepard]

She would sit in class and watch.

[Monica Padman]

The movie in my head. I would watch it and then rewind it and watch.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Were you in class at mit?

[Dax Shepard]

I wish.

[Monica Padman]

No. Because I was too busy watching movies in my head. But Social Network is so good. You're so good in it. Everyone's so good in it.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Well, thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

You already had your taste of it all with Zombieland, but that's an enormous moment. You get nominated for a BAFTA on a Golden Globe and Academy Award. That prick Colin Firth had done King's Speech, so no one had a chance now. Yeah. What was that whirlwind like?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Hard, fun, weird and exhausting. And when I would complain to my dad, my dad would just always say the same thing. Was like, if you have one of these in your life, if you're like, in the arts, you'd be so happy. Why are you complaining? And Obama was president at the time. And I was like, I have to go to a weird dinner. My dad was like, do you know the President of the United states probably has 17 things a day that he has to do that are not the thing he likes doing. You should be just so grateful that somebody's given you free dinner and everything. And I remember I was thinking, oh, I shouldn't go to the Academy Awards, because awards are stupid. My dad called me and he was like, are you an idiot? This industry has given you so much. Of course, go to these things. These award shows are basically ways for the industry to celebrate itself and to promote itself. So just go there and be grateful. Now I'm a little more grateful about things rather than trying to resist.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, just, you know, you're going to feel uncomfortable in all these places you go.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

But also, I think in a bubble. They're strange. Why? They pit artists against each other. This kind of teenage poetry. Thought you grow out of that stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

And isn't it all a lie, too?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Which part?

[Dax Shepard]

The story about why you're not drawn to it. If I were you, I'd be like, I don't belong there. Those people belong there. That's the real feeling in my heart that I might not want to look at.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

So I build on top of it a very defendable reason why, which is.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That awards are bullshit.

[Dax Shepard]

Pitting artists and all this stuff. The brain quickly fills in a plausible excuse that doesn't require you to own your fear or your vulnerability.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. Yeah. That's so intuitive. I even call my mom Sometimes. Or my wife. What's the difference? One of those two people tells me, last time you had a good time and you met a friend of yours there and you were funny. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you actually leave going like, no, I actually belong in this group of people, which I, you know what?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

They don't belong. Yeah, actually I should be there alone.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know why they invited DiCaprio. Yeah, he's a great actor, but he's not as fun as me at a party.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, there's a charm missing. It's that X factor.

[Dax Shepard]

So how was hosting SNL in the wake of that?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That was so funny. It was like the exact same thing you're describing. I had turned it down 10 times because I did not want to be somebody who had hosted Saturday Night Live. Because I just felt so embarrassed. I was like, I'm going to be who did it. And it would never be asked back. So I was just like, I don't want to have done it. Feels so embarrassing. And then I did the exact same thing that you just said. So instead I justified it by like, no, no, no, no. Because I want people to know me as an actor, not as caricature stuff. So I don't want to do it. So that's why I justified it. And then I was really pressured to do it. And I was a fan of the show, obviously. I mean, everybody is.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's an insanely unique experience to have on planet Earth for a week.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. In fact, I don't even really remember lots of it. When you're doing the show, you're being dragged around by the sweet woman Donna, who's changing her classroom. You literally have no autonomy. You're being just taken around to various things and the hours are weird.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you're kind of in a fever Dr. Dream the whole week and then it ends. Right. And you try to process it afterwards.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's exactly it. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. Blink and get more. Blink is your go to value brand for smart home security made simple. Blink's wired and wire free smart security devices work together to create affordable, convenient, whole full home coverage when and where you need it most. If you haven't used a home security system before, Blink is the perfect place to start. It's super simple to set up with everything you need to get started right in the box. And you can monitor everything straight from their easy to use app. Plus Blink wireless cameras and video doorbell systems have a powerful two year battery life. So no need to charge or reinstall batteries, you're covered for a long time. I just love that the whole system comes in one box ready to rock.

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Security is really important.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

Therapy is essential to me during the holidays, especially because I generally am going home, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

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And I need sort of some stability and guidance from my therapy and guidance to stay nice.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You guys become pals, obviously, because she's a producer on both the movies you directed.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

I think she is so talented. I think she's so sparkly and I thought poor things, she was off the charts great and I find her to be a real unicorn. I'm very intrigued by her.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, she's a total unicorn. I mean she's funnier than almost anybody I've ever met and great dramatic actress. And I will say, knowing her now as a producer, she's so savvy with the film industry. We're, like, on marketing calls with the studio, and there's people who've been doing that job for 20 years, and they're all amazing. But she just holds court, and we're all just sitting there taking notes. And she's somebody who's never marketed a movie. She's just so savvy at every aspect, from giving me a note on my script to then marketing to production, everything. It's hard to describe what the thing is because I haven't seen it in somebody else, so it's hard to articulate it. She just seems always right is what it feels like. Everything she says to me is always, oh, yeah, that seems better than what I was thinking.

[Dax Shepard]

You're right. There's a hyper intelligence, too. I should have listed that in the mix. Yeah, but so often you go on a movie and you really bond with somebody, but then there's no legs to it. Afterwards, you both go to different sides of the planet and do another movie for three months. How did you guys end up maintaining that friendship? It just broke through that.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I think everybody who meets her has that same feeling. And I think everybody who meets her feels like they have that bond. And I was very, very aware of that when we were working together. I was like, I'm her best friend. But also I think probably everybody feels that way. It's because she's so genuine. You have the sense in her presence, like, oh, this is my new best friend. Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

My hunch is she makes you feel incredibly comfortable to talk to.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yes, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

And so for a lot of people, she's the most comfortable person they get to talk to. And so they are in the level of intimacy that they can feel comfortable sharing.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, that's exactly it. They feel in her presence like, this is the most comfortable I've been.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I could also see you convincing yourself to not stay in touch with her.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, no, I did. I basically, I didn't reach out.

[Dax Shepard]

That's my hunch, is that she probably pursued you as a friend.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

She did. I only say this because I didn't want to bother her because I think of her as on another planet. She's also a very busy person, but she would send me text messages. Like, I had put out a book the next year. She'd send me text messages of lines in the book. She would come to all the plays I wrote. She was just very supportive. I think what it is is that she's like a comedy nerd. And so I was writing comedy essays. She would send me A picture of one of my short stories or something. And she would say, this is my whole life. And she's genuine.

[Dax Shepard]

Beams give me hiccups.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, Bream gives me hiccups. It's a collection of short stories that I published in there and elsewhere. And she would just send me pages from it. And no one was doing that to me. It's so sweet and flattering. I think she's just like a comedy nerd in addition to being also, like, a goddess. And so I think that's what it was. So she became interested in the stuff I was writing. And so she would always be the only one who would read my stuff. I mean, more than any other friend.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. He believes in you creatively.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. And so she got my first movie script, and she was thinking of starting a production company, and she asked if she can produce this as her first movie.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. That is when you finish saving the world.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. You do the now you see me's. Those are huge hits. John's a friend of ours for part two. John Chu.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, really?

[Dax Shepard]

You got to see Wicked. He fucking slayed it.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I can't wait to see it.

[Dax Shepard]

It's insane. Okay. It makes a ton of sense. You've written a bunch of plays that have been produced. You've been writing forever. Your acting, so obviously directing is not a big leap, but for you, did it feel like a big declaration?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Not really. I just was feeling like I wasn't getting good movie parts for a while. I was always writing plays because I was doing movies that I really liked.

[Dax Shepard]

You were living also in a subset of Hollywood that got largely diminished. You were in a lot of 20 to 60 million dollars movies, quirky comedies. Those went away. The actual sweet spot you were living in has only just deflated over the last 10 years. Because that's TV now.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That is so interesting. God, I just blamed myself.

[Dax Shepard]

But I'm sure you're at home going like, yeah, no one likes me anymore. Forget the fact that they haven't made a $35 million dramedy in eight years.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You know, it literally never crossed my mind. But so I had this happy thing where I was acting in movies I really liked, which you're saying went away. I guess that's true. And then I was doing plays, and it felt great. And then it had been a few years. It had been in a movie that people really liked. So I just thought, I have to take the thing I've been doing in theater and just move it to movies where I can kind of Take control of it a little more. I had written a book for Audible and instead of turning it into a play, which I was going to do, I turned it into a screenplay because I just thought then I could just get in movies. And it truthfully was helpful. Like, I was working with A24, produced it, and it was basically like, I'm in with the cool kids again in the movies. And I engineered it myself. And now I acted in my second movie. So now it even helps me as an actor. But it was kind of like, I guess, taking a back door back to the table that I felt I wasn't sitting at anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. And had you convinced yourself that the ride was over even to the degree where you were trying to transition into gratitude for having been at the party?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's funny. You're talking about the memoir phase of the career. Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

The processing of the experience.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly. Now you're opening the car dealership based on the sitcom that you're in.

[Dax Shepard]

Mine is, I'm doing Ace Tru Value hardware commercials regionally in Michigan. And I go, no, you didn't get punked. We do have garden hoses on. Exactly.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Now watch out for those zombies with this new ring. Now you see these cars, now you don't. Yes. God. Where was I all. Now I could think of. Where are we?

[Dax Shepard]

Drag team.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, yeah. Oh, this is what I was going to say. Basically you joke that I was in the gratitude phase. I was not in the gratitude phase. I moved to Indiana. I was in the I moved to Indiana phase.

[Dax Shepard]

Bloomington, Indiana.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I moved to Bloomington.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. What is that?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Bloomington is a city and cities are groups of people. And you know this from your anthropology, that those people can be different. But basically, my wife grew up there.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

My mother in law tragically got sick and she was running a domestic violence shelter there and we went to help out with the shelter and to take care of her. And in terms of professional stuff, because that's kind of what we're talking about, it was like just a total two feet out the door of this thing. You know, it's a weird industry. It feels so unstable. You feel like, oh, the thing's going to spit me out tomorrow. Being in Indiana, I was just around none of it, which was great. Paradoxically, it was weird because I was the only actor there. And so people were like, hey, are you still acting?

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Which is not a question you want to be asked.

[Monica Padman]

What year was this?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

This was probably 2016, 17, 18, 19.

[Monica Padman]

Pre pandemic.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

No. And then in the pandemic, we Were there all the time. We moved to Indiana.

[Dax Shepard]

You laugh, basically.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly. And it was a relief. But you're running away from something too. I was running away from not feeling like I'm pounding the pavement in New York. Also, I was in this Batman movie and the Batman movie was so poorly received. And I was so poorly received. I've never said this before and it's kind of embarrassing to admit, but I genuinely think it actually hurt my career in a real way.

[Dax Shepard]

Really?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Because I was poorly received in something so public. I've been in poorly received things that just don't see the light of day for the most part. No one knows. But this was so public and I don't read notices or reviews or movie press or anything, so I was unaware of how poorly it was received.

[Monica Padman]

But I don't even know what you're talking about. And that's another fact, another reality. This is another thing that we.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't know that either until I was reading about you today.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we think everybody knows about it. I'm sure you think we know what you're talking about. The movie. And then you were poorly written. Like, I didn't know that until you just said it.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, yeah. But in the industry, if you're in a huge, huge movie and not seen as good, the people who choosing who to put next in their movie are just not gonna select you.

[Monica Padman]

Pick you.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, you're just like associated with something. I loved my role and I loved the movie doing it and everything. So I feel just myself to blame. I'm not like they did me wrong. No. I'm like, oh, I guess I did something wrong there. And so it did feel like I had to climb out again.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but you were really depressed after that.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I was depressing, but I'm depressed all the time in some ways. Just like, oh, yeah. Of course I had this great opportunity. Of course it didn't go well. Just pessimism.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. So here's this other great irony, which is constant fear of the future. But when terrible shit's happening to me, I'm kind of good. In terrible shit.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I'm fine.

[Dax Shepard]

Which beg the question, why am I so afraid of the future? Because every time I'm in the shitty thing, I do just fine.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, no, it's exactly what I expect. My main trouble comes when a good thing is happening. Because I think now is the really bad thing. And it's that anticipation that's really troubling.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

My mother in law was very sick and while we were taking care of her it's such a self centered way to view something. But I remember I just had never anxiety because I'd never had a thought about myself. It made me feel so good to be able to help somebody who needed it. During the pandemic, there was no work, obviously couldn't go to set. So I was working in this domestic violence shelter. I was just volunteering and I'd never been happier in my life. It was just getting outside side of yourself now.

[Dax Shepard]

I heard you talk about directing. I thought this was a cool thing to acknowledge because I say this kind of publicly. This is a wild business. The most creative person isn't the best director. You have to also lead 120 people in a direction that's its own skill set and it's almost bears no relation to the other part of the job.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah. It's like your general manager of a store.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's very interesting. You'd think, oh, if you're creative, you're a writer and you're in your room by yourself and if you're a good enough writer, eventually they'll go, do you want to direct? You're like, why sit in a room by myself? This is going to be a different experience altogether. I liked hearing how you a owned that. Like I'm not the kind of guy that can be shouting on set, we're losing the light. But you found your own way through it. What is it that you landed on that made you comfortable in that role?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, that's so nice to ask. The directors I've loved working with are not those people either. They're people like me. And they are great because they're real people who so appreciate everybody who's on that set. They appreciate the actors who are exposing themselves, discounting their own vanity, even though their face is going to be blown up to a million feet. And I just walk in so lucky and happy that this production designer, this cinematographer, this art director is here working. They're far more talented at their job than I am at my job. This is my first or second movie. This is their hundredth. These actors, same kind of thing. So I just feel really lucky. And the two movies I've made are very specific to my voice and so I'm very confident in the creative part of it. I know where I'm not confident in and I'm so happy that I have people working with me who are. When I think about it that way, it's pretty easy. My new movie I'm acting in as well and I never had a chance for Example to watch the playback of me in the scene. I never had an opportunity. We were moving too quickly for me to go and put my headphones on and watch me act. It was basically, I could either do that or do another take. It would take the same amount of time, so I'd just do another take. I was too busy to second guess myself or my hair. I just finished doing now youw See Me three. And it's an ensemble movie. And the part doesn't require me to, like, dig deep. And yet still I was so nervous all the time. This is my shot on this movie. And this is the important scene in this movie when I'm doing my own thing. I just don't have that. There's no buildup.

[Dax Shepard]

I think I'm best in the things I've directed because, yeah, I'm so distracted by the much bigger issue at hand.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

So you're unselfconscious.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. There's no time for it. I gotta get these lines out. I wrote. That's my job.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

But what does it tell you then about the nervousness from the other thing? Does it tell you that's just fantastical stuff that you're creating to fill your mind?

[Dax Shepard]

It gives me an example that I can do the same job without all the bullshit. I don't have to be fearful. Right. And I don't have to be nervous. It's almost like immersion therapy for you or I. Or you get results and then you have to acknowledge, oh, I didn't need all that racket.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I just find there's so much waiting in movies to fill your head with crazy stuff. Again, I just finished this movie. Ruben Fleischer actually directed it. It was a big movie and you could not go wrong in this movie. Now you see me through. And yet you spend the six hours in your trailer waiting to do the thing. And so by the time you get to do the thing and the line is basically just like, I got him right here. Something like that. And so you're in the trailer and you're like, I got him right here. I got him right here. Because you're thinking, this requires so much. Because I'm here in this trailer and.

[Monica Padman]

Must require so much if there's all this crap around and all these people around me.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly. So then you over inflate the importance and then you screw yourself up a little bit. Because it actually is better if you don't think about it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, well, I watched A Real Pain last night and I really, really enjoyed it. And in fact, I was watching it my 11 year old who was just trying to get out of going to bed, which is a great technique. She kind of joined me. She was laying on the floor watching with me and she goes, this movie, hard to watch, but I really like it. And I'm like, yeah, that's like a whole genre of movies on. We take for granted. All three of us grew up watching certain kinds of movies, and now kids grow up watching like kids movies or tent pole movies. This whole strata. Oh, right. Of like an emotionally taxing talk heavy. It's not in the marketplace. It was cool. This is uncomfortable. You can feel what these guys are going through. And that in itself is very intriguing and pleasurable to consume.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

But what you're saying is that's unique. My fingers off the pulse, if you're a 11.

[Dax Shepard]

Look, we took them to the mall Friday night because I found out there was a Dairy Queen in the Burbank Mall. Once we got there, realized, oh, we've never been to the mall with the kids. They think this is spectacular. We're in Macy's. They're on every bed, every couch, every chair. And I'm like, oh, right. This was my entire childhood going to the mall.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

They never been there. Just because mall culture is not the same thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, we don't shop at the mall. We shop online. And this particular mall, the Burbank Mall, Shout out is a time warp. It's the 80s. It's the same terrible things at the food court. It was just one of these dumb things where I was like, oh, right. I spent every weekend of my life at a mall. This is their first time to a Mall at 11 years old. In that way, this movie was weirdly refreshing because this movie could have been.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Could be a mall of movies. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, could have been. What director do I want to say? Not Hal Ashby, but there's a 70s vibe to this movie.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's character based. You know, walk and talk. Characters that you don't necessarily fall in love with right away.

[Dax Shepard]

Every scene you set up for you probably were going to get through four or five pages of dialogue.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. Wait, did your kid not find Kieran to be really funny? Because Kieran's antics are funny in the movie.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, she liked Karen, but Kieran is also making everyone very, very uncomfortable around him.

[Monica Padman]

Unpredictable.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, it's unpredictable.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, so let's set up the movie and then I want to hear your own history. And going into it, the thing I want to applaud the most is just as a writer, it's such A different story by the conceit of it. So you and your cousin, who are very close as kids, who are separated in adulthood geographically and socioeconomically and all these things. You shared a grandma, she lived in Poland, World War II and she died and she left you guys money to go visit where she's from. And you guys join a tour.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

With a really fun group of different people with different reasons to be on the tour. And now we're just on this tour through Poland and it's a Holocaust tour. And there's these cousins trying to come to terms with how different their lives have turned out. I'm sure the implicit guilt in your character's mind. And he's Kieran, so he. He's the dude from succession. He's impossibly charismatic, can get away with saying anything. And it's really fun to watch what's your own. I know you have some similar bit of history with Poland and your aunt.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, the house that the guys go to at the end is my family's house.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And my wife and I went to all these cities in 2008 when we were just traveling through Poland. So I knew these places quite well. And then my aunt Doris was born and raised in that house. My cousin Maria survived the war through a series of miracles, as we say in the movie. So it was kind of like a combination of these two people. And then I been on some of these tours, not in Poland, but first time my wife and I went way together was to Venezuela. She's like an interested person in the world. She took me when I was 18, to Venezuela and we went on this tour and it was so funny because you're with these other Americans or British people, whatever. It's an English speaking tour and you're not having any local experiences. You're in another place, but you're kind of in this bubble. I thought it was so kind of funny and ironic. So I wanted to kind of present that world also would be, I thought, really interesting to just have it set on like a Holocaust or something. Are basically the kind of humor of the movie and of the characters can just be offset and against the backdrop of something quite big.

[Dax Shepard]

Where do you get that relationship?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I've written about characters like these for a while. Kieran's character is Benji. I played a character named Ben in a playable called the Spoils, which was about a similar kind of character. I'm fascinated by people like that. So if you haven't seen the movie, the character that Kieran plays is this incredibly Charming, charismatic, live wire, firecracker. But can also be very manipulative, antagonistic, intimidating, but also lovable. And then also ultimately very broken. Something's very disturbed.

[Dax Shepard]

For lack of better verbiage. He seems kind of bipolar. You don't know what you're gonna get on what day. Is he gonna be really high in ramping up everyone else around him? Or is he gonna be in the pits and drag everyone down with him?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, exactly. And I guess I've found people like that just to be initially very enviable. Like, I wish I had that kind of outward charm. I wish I could say what was on my mind. I wish I felt comfortable enough in my own skin to even say, hey, I'm feel. He gives people the greatest moment in their lives, but he also, when he's not feeling good, he decides he has to turn everybody's world sour. I always thought that's like the version of me that I don't present well.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what I was gonna ask. They're two different characters, but are they you? I mean, are they your SuperEGO and your ID?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You're the first person to put it in those Freudian terms, but that's what it is. So Kieran's like the id. My character is David. Everything David is feeling and all the things that are coursing through his unconscious come to life. And that's Kieran's character. And there's something unsustainable about Kieran's character. So that's why there's a kind of broken, bittersweet quality to him. Because he doesn't have a sustainable life. He can't keep jobs or friends or girlfriends. You meet him in the beginning at the airport, and you leave him at the end at the airport. He's a person who kind of exists in this transient, liminal space, just a purgatory of his own troubles.

[Dax Shepard]

There's also all this great exploration of what the third generation Jewish experience is. But it brings up different things that you could potentially be dealing with with that family history that's shared by so many. One of them I found was fascinating. I had never really considered was. In your great moment of frustration with your cousin, you say the notion that he's living in the basement of his parents home, knowing what his own grandmother went through and survived is like somehow this cosmic disappointment.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

It never occurred to me that people would feel that way. But of course they probably would. That that might be an actual thought people have who feel like they're underachieving.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Which of course would Just bring them down even further. There's a quote in every culture that has the following thing. Japanese culture, it's like rice paddies to rice paddies in three generations. There's another quote which is like, first generation builds the house, second generation lives in the house. Third generation burns it down. Italian is like shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations. And I say it in the movie, the first generation does some menial job, they work themselves up into the middle class. Second generation maybe moves themselves up a little further in the third generation burns house down. And I think that third generation, if I were to analyze it maybe on a mass level, I would say something along the lines of there is a guilt that their lives are comfortable and they're lacking meaning that the first generation had.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you inherit. It's more than the immigrant story. It's the survivor immigrant story. And yeah, I think about my own self flagellation and if I could add in there that my papa Bob, he was orphaned. He adopted all of his younger brothers and sisters and supported them. I think what that man went through and then I'm like, yeah, I didn't get X movie to watch.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Isn't that weird?

[Dax Shepard]

What a shameful place I'm occupying in my head right now.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's exactly what the movie is talking about. I don't know how to reconcile it. I've written four plays about this exact idea because all my plays are about usually an American, modern American creation, like what you're just describing in touch with somebody whose life is somehow just more fraught. The play that I like the most is called the Spoils. And my character is like Kieran's character. And his roommate is a Nepalese immigrant who's based on my friend. We both met at nyu, but my roommate is getting a business degree and I think business degrees are ridiculous because capitalism's bullshit. And he, he's like an upwardly mobile immigrant. And it's just this clash of cultures. And so my life is just completely stifled because everything seems like bullshit because I have the comfort to have that it's a luxury. Yeah, exactly. You get self hating and then if you're telling yourself this story of God, I can't believe my grandfather, what you just told me now, and you're worried about your role. It just adds to the self hating cycle.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, just all more fuel. And then again the story he's telling, like, yeah, just an outward rejection of all wealth because he, he doesn't have it. Also these stories that he's telling himself. Kieran.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Rich people are fucking idiots.

[Dax Shepard]

Which helps dissipate some of the shame.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

It's the thing you said earlier about not going to the award show and then creating a thing in your head. Yeah. Because award shows are bullshit, you know?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You have to. If your life is not working out in certain areas, the quicker thing to do is not try to fix it or blame yourself or try to fix yourself. The quicker thing to do is create some really well reasoned, logical sounding argument of why the thing that you didn't get is bullshit.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And why the thing you're doing is the natural and right thing to be doing.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I say this a lot about our current hatred of billionaires. I don't have that hatred. I'm like, poor people don't hate billionaires. It's a certain class of people that is actually pretty privileged that has the luxury of saying, that's bad and capitalism is bad and X, Y, Z is bad. It's like if you're actually disenfranchised, you don't think that.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, that's so interesting.

[Monica Padman]

It's a weird cycle that happens with privilege where you start picking apart the way to get.

[Dax Shepard]

I think this is some of the great angst with economically disenfranchised people is they're hearing rich people talk about that they should care about the planet. Right. And they're like, yeah, let me handle dinner and rent and I might join you in this existential crisis that's a thousand years away. There is some reality, like when your full bandwidth is made up of surviving, a lot of these other concerns are trivial.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

The idea of Maslow's hierarchy of needs is that once you fulfill food and air, then you have shelter. And if you're worried about your movie role, I suppose that's not even on the pyramid. And if it was on the pyramid, it'd be the star on top of the Christmas tree of the pyramid.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. The tip of the flag.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And Maslow would punch you in the face.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But it's a similar thing. It's like the cultural. If your parents left a country to come here so that you could have the opportunity to make a ton of money, you're not gonna be like, I think money's bad. You're gonna be like, that's literally the whole purpose of life.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That was the life raft.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's what the movie is doing and that's what the characters in their own different ways are trying to go back to connect to it. In some ways, my character's Kind of a yuppie and has all the feelings of ocd. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable. But I don't wanna tell anybody about it. Cause I'm grandson of survivors.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. Were the places you were filming actual?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, we filmed at a concentration camp. We filmed at one called Majdanek, which is five minutes from where my family lived. Not the house that's in the movie, but my second cousins lived nonetheless. We filmed at this place, Majdanek. It was really difficult to film there. They don't want movies filming there for obvious reasons. I mean, most movies that are about the Holocaust take place during the Holocaust. These places that are hallowed grounds don't want extras and Nazi uniforms running through. So I took eight months to get in touch with these people, to finally express to them what I wanted to do, which was I wanted to take these characters on a tour through this place, which is now kind of called a museum. The way that they, as a museum, are hoping to get people to come in too. The movie was serving the same purpose as the place and important to go. I've been to a few of these genocide museums in Rwanda and Cambodia, and I visited several of the concentration camps. Every time at these places, I just have this thought which is like, God, everybody has to see this. And it's hard to say exactly why. I guess, you know, it'll make you more empathic.

[Dax Shepard]

All of it's overwhelming. And so I don't like thinking about it. And my best course of action is to explain why. It's just to basically fall on Nietzsche. To have kind of a nihilist takeaway. Is your only recourse to not suffer in thinking about it, I'll go, yeah, bad shit happens on planet Earth. People are tribal and that's the facts of life. It's all an attempt. So I don't actually have to feel how miserable that might be.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, I see.

[Dax Shepard]

I got a little compartment in my head. And it's like, yeah, the earth's gnarly. We do gnarly shit. People are susceptible to cults of personality and we're social animals. I understand it, quote, therefore I don't have to feel it. But I think going there, I go, it matters a ton. And it's real and it's palpable. And there's nothing I can do to really think my way out of this.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's right. I mean, and I guess it speaks to the thought that one death is a tragedy and a genocide is data. So when you go there, you realize, oh, actually there's Something real here. It's not something to just write off as a data point of something that.

[Dax Shepard]

Occurred to understand intellectually exactly one detail that I absolutely love that you had in the movie. Only because I just read this book when we ceased to understand the world. Have you read that book?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, no.

[Dax Shepard]

You must read this book because. Because you show the Prussian blue on the gas chambers.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

It's the greatest book of all time. The first chapter, that is the Prussian blue.

[Dax Shepard]

It's called Prussian Blue.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Sorry, I forgot the title. That is the single greatest book I've ever read. But I read it, like, five years ago, and I just bought it for everybody I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you read Maniac yet, his next book?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, he did. He write another thing. You must read it.

[Dax Shepard]

He's, like, from 10 different countries. French is his first language. But he might be in Argentina writing.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, that's exactly what it was. He was living in South America, but he's French. That Prussian blue chapter is the eerie thing I've ever read in my life.

[Dax Shepard]

And so to tell people, yeah. Prussian blue only exists as a byproduct of the poisonous gas that was used.

[Monica Padman]

Wait, what is that?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

So Prussian blue is just this beautiful color in a palette of painters. And it was discovered in some year. I forget which year. And when you create that compound that's in cyanide, or you say it in.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

The movie, we say Zyklon B. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Those chemicals create the color Prussian blue, which is so beautiful. And all of the gas chambers had Prussian blue all over. Like, the gas just would seep out of the doors where they would open it, so surrounding the door, going in.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And so now, like, 80 years later, the stains are still on the wall.

[Dax Shepard]

And they're these clouds of the prettiest blue you've ever seen. It's so weird. There's something very weird about it.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

And, you know, it's also the name of a girl band. Do you know about this?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no. Prussian blue.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

White supremacist. Two sisters.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my. Ladies, ladies. The wrong use of Prussian blue.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Also the wrong use of your life. What are you doing?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I mean, they're purposefully named that because they're white supremacy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. Fascinating.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a fantastic movie. You did a great job. It's really, really good and refreshing and new and interesting and a cool story. And Kieran's phenomenal, and you're phenomenal.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Thank you so much. I appreciate you saying that. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm delighted that you accomplished so much in such short time and on such little money.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

We just had someone on who was just here talking. Oh, maybe Anna Kendrick. When you make a movie for such a low budget, you want two things. You want American. I think it costs 100 million. But you want everyone to know you only had 3 million.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Oh, that's brilliant.

[Dax Shepard]

I want the credit of having made a big movie for a very little amount of money, but I want everyone to think it costs 100 million.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I was told to stop saying it for exactly that reason. Yeah, you're exactly right. Why is that? Because America doesn't want to go to a movie.

[Dax Shepard]

I want my cake and eat it too.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

But what's the appeal?

[Monica Padman]

Well, they want. You want to watch it and be like, holy shit, this movie's incredible. It must cost $100 million.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I see, I see, I see.

[Monica Padman]

Big movie.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

There are occas occasionally movies that. The story of the thing is $50,000, and they did this. But that's, I guess, few and far between.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right, right. Puffy Chair. We can name them, probably.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Jesse, this has been wonderful. I've enjoyed this so much. I hope everyone checks out. A real pain. It's so, so good. What's interesting, it's Searchlight. This all makes sense because I watched On Disney debut, which is their, like, screening platform. But of course, Disney owns Fox and Fox Searchlight.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Will it make its way to Disney then?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Disney plus, I think is when it comes on. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay, great.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Imagine it's the only Holocaust mov Disney.

[Dax Shepard]

Plus Just type in Holocaust on Disney.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

What if it said, I don't like to talk about that?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

We'd enjoy Dumbo or you want to feel like Bambi.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

All other saddest movies come up. We don't have that title, but we have Bambi, Lion King.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You know, all these movies, the parents die in the beginning.

[Monica Padman]

All of them.

[Dax Shepard]

It's the formula.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah. Isn't that just bizarre?

[Dax Shepard]

It is. And when it's pointed out to you, you're like, oh, it's that it makes sense.

[Monica Padman]

So it's the. The only way to get kids to care immediately. That's the only thing they know and could understand as painful.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You know what chatgpt told me because I asked, is this exploiting kids psychology? And it said, no, this is a way to safely teach kids about emotions. So it's not real, but you're dealing with emotions.

[Dax Shepard]

They're playing out their biggest fear. They'd lose mom and dad.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

They're doing what we do just a.

[Monica Padman]

Few years later, it's Texas Chainsaw.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Next stop, six more years. All right, well, I enjoyed meeting you on the lot. Some fun 12 years ago. And now this has been even better. I hope everyone watches A Real Pain. And we would love for you to come back when you're doing it again.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

That would be great. Thank you so much. This was so nice.

[Dax Shepard]

I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. I want to give a public shout out to the number one bunny in America. The number one rabbit, Carly Barton. My little sister. She got out all 1500 sweaters. Wow.

[Monica Padman]

Carly.

[Dax Shepard]

In, like, two days.

[Monica Padman]

Incredible.

[Dax Shepard]

She had to borrow the truck. Multiple trips to the post office.

[Monica Padman]

Thank you, Carly.

[Dax Shepard]

But she cranked. That little gal can work. I think I can always call her a little girl. It's not disrespectful on a feminine standpoint because it's my little sister and she'll always be a little girl. I think she likes being a little sister.

[Monica Padman]

I'm sure she does.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I like being a little brother. I mean, I hated being a little brother, but now I like being a little brother.

[Monica Padman]

I could see that.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

You have little brother energy.

[Dax Shepard]

You wish. I got big brother energy. Oh, here's something that I'm wanted to bring up because I always talk about things I love that I've seen. And I know you're never going to watch this, which really breaks my heart, but do you know about the yacht rock documentary on Max? My God, is it good?

[Monica Padman]

What's. What's the deal?

[Dax Shepard]

First of all, Simmons produced it.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, cool. He's doing a lot of docks. Oh, yeah, I think he did the McMahon one.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

That's awesome.

[Dax Shepard]

He's crushing that dock space.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I've removed my shoes for comfort.

[Monica Padman]

I see. Nice socks.

[Dax Shepard]

Thank you. It's really good. And, you know, I consider myself a student of yacht rock. As you know, since you've known me, yacht rock was my thing. It gives you the origin of yacht rock. It was a comedy sketch by these guys in the 90s. They. They coined the term yacht rock.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I knew all the players, of course, and you know my love for Steely Dan. But I gotta be honest, I don't think I knew how much. Steely Dan is the hub of all that music. I mean, it's. You can trace all of it so perfectly to all just them being the nucleus. And, you know, Celia is my absolute favorite. I force people to Talk about it all the time, especially when we have musicians. So what a delight for me to hear that. That was the glue that held all that together.

[Monica Padman]

Do you talk to best boy Jimmy Kimmel about it?

[Dax Shepard]

Of course. Yep, yep, yep.

[Monica Padman]

Since he loves yacht rock as well.

[Dax Shepard]

He and I. Well, Molly sent me the best video ever. If she says to her Alexa or whatever device she has, hey, Alexa, play good music. She did a video of this. It'll go playing Dax's playlist. Like the playlist that Jimmy made for me is what Alexa thinks is good music.

[Monica Padman]

That's so cute. He made you a playlist.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a few bands. I guess that's where the debate is. Like, where does the line like hall and not yacht rock? But that's so why, Right? A lot of people would say why.

[Monica Padman]

I think it is.

[Dax Shepard]

And then there are people like. Kenny Loggins is one of the. He'd be on the Mount Rushmore of yacht rock, but he also danced in all the genres. He also had a lot of rock and a lot of pop, and then all these seminal yacht rock jams.

[Monica Padman]

Carly Simon, Steely Dan, James Taylor.

[Dax Shepard]

These are. That's the. Neither of those are. James Taylor is not Y rock.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, I think so.

[Dax Shepard]

You think so?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Who gets to decide?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, if you watch the doc, they give you a pretty good.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, really?

[Dax Shepard]

Framework for what it is.

[Monica Padman]

Huh.

[Dax Shepard]

So the band that's at the hub is of course, Steely Dan. But then the individual that's the common connective tissue is Michael McDonald. He's in every single one of these things in some capacity.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I wonder what Simmons is gonna do next. Cause he's on the role.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess he's gonna make one for you.

[Monica Padman]

That would be fantastic. Speaking of, I got a lot of really sweet reach outs from people in my life, like old people in my life when I was in middle school and high school. And they were so happy for me that we got to have Lisa on.

[Dax Shepard]

100 of the comments are about you.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's very sweet.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. People's enthusiasm and excitement for you.

[Monica Padman]

It was like people who I don't talk to really, but were. Were there for when it was really.

[Dax Shepard]

When friends was the salve.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. And so they were all very. It was very heartwarming and sweet that they were like, oh, my gosh, that is nice. Yeah. And then Anthony, who also was there, he texted me.

[Dax Shepard]

Not a blast from the past.

[Monica Padman]

Well, not a blast from the past.

[Dax Shepard]

But a longstanding friendship.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, he was in the past and he Was a part of it. And he's also a huge friends fan. And he said, I almost commented, Lisa Kudrow. This is how I find out.

[Dax Shepard]

I had forgotten to tell you how to tell him.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I'd forgotten. And then I said, oh, some people reached out, which was really sweet. And he said, yeah, you really created strong brand awareness even back in the day.

[Dax Shepard]

So you didn't tell anyone who was coming up? Because when I did, Toto, I couldn't resist. When I was with the boys, I'm like, oh, dude, Toto said this? Toto said that.

[Monica Padman]

I told people. Toto.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, interesting.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I told people about Lisa Kudrow. I guess I just forgot to tell the most important person.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

So sorry. Anthony, this is a public apology.

[Dax Shepard]

I need you to be brutally honest. So I was going to wear a hat because as you know, I am involved, engaged in a two front war with the thickness of my hair.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And so I have a product that I have to use in the morning and at night, and it makes my hair terrible. I have an eyedropper, a drop, drop, drop, drop, drop. I just want it on my scalp. That's what I'm hoping. And then I try to get my fingers in there and just rub the scalp. But of course it gets all over the hair. And then it's a pharmaceutical, so it's not like a hair product you'd want to use. And so my hair just always looks bad, basically because I'm putting it on in the morning and then at night. So take your pick. It's going to look bad. So I'm wearing a lot of hats lately because I don't want to deal with it.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I did notice you're wearing a lot of hats.

[Dax Shepard]

Or maybe I won't put in that product. I'll give up some. Some territory in this war. I might lose the battle today, but worth it. So that I don't have to wear a hat at work.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

And then. So I was. That was all happening. I just exercised, went in there, cleaned up. What are we going to do here? Wore a hat. And I go, I'm not going to wear a hat. And now I'm here. And then just crossed my mind, does my hair look crazy?

[Monica Padman]

Well, did you put the stuff on it?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I got to.

[Monica Padman]

Well, you just told me you decided you might not do that on a.

[Dax Shepard]

Day I'm not going to wear a hat. I. I would forego the treatment so that my hair doesn't look all goopy.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

So I was going to Wear a hat today.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

But then I decided at the last minute when I came down, no, I'm not going to.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, got it. You see the confusion? It looks fine.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. It doesn't look insane.

[Monica Padman]

What do you. What means. What's insane to you?

[Dax Shepard]

Like a big block of plastic on half my hair and then normal hair everywhere else.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no. But I have an idea.

[Dax Shepard]

Tell me.

[Monica Padman]

You know those scalp things, they're like.

[Dax Shepard]

That tickle your scalp.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Little like sticks on them. You could do the thing and then use the scalp thing to get it all over and then it would. You wouldn't be using your hands to get it all over.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a great idea. But I think if you had used the product, you wouldn't. You would know why that's not going to be an option for me. Because I do the eyedropper. Well, inevitably it wants to start running down my forehead and I don't think I can get it in my eyes. So I constantly. I just gotta immediately stop it.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like you've spilled something on the counter and it's making its way towards the edge and it's gonna go down on the floor. You gotta really quick get involved. Okay, so.

[Monica Padman]

Cause you definitely wanna. You like, you have to put it up here.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that's front number one of the war. It's two front war. I'm fighting in the front and in the back. The middle were fine.

[Monica Padman]

I don't really even need.

[Dax Shepard]

So most of my drops are all along the front. Front. And then it wants to, because of gravity, come down my face.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, I have another idea. What about Q tips? What about if you put it on a Q tip and then you dab, dab, dab.

[Dax Shepard]

So I almost think I tried that method. The problem is, is like I've got an eyedropper and I don't know in milliliters, but it's a considerable amount of fluid. If I was going to douse a Q tip, we would be in there for like 45 minutes to. To get enough of that fluid on the Q tip, get that then transferred to the scalp, then go back because the Q tip doesn't absorb all that much. And you're supposed to do two of the eyes.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you two full eyes.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a lot of fluid.

[Monica Padman]

All right, well, just a hat, I.

[Dax Shepard]

Think, is the solution. Great.

[Monica Padman]

Just keep wearing a hat.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

All right, well, it's almost Christmas time. Are there any Christmas updates? I got a new tablescape, so that was exciting.

[Dax Shepard]

Tell me about a tablescape new tablecloth.

[Monica Padman]

This from Heather Taylor home.

[Dax Shepard]

We love Heather as a human. I mean, I don't know much about the products, but she.

[Monica Padman]

Amazing products.

[Dax Shepard]

Wonderful woman.

[Monica Padman]

My tree is 35, but she's still my baby. Just like Harley is always your little girl.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Her skirt is pink and green.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

So now I'm. I've decided. Deciding to do pink and green as.

[Dax Shepard]

A theme across the board in your home.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. That's the wicked colors.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, God.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess because Kristen did a wicked tree and it's pink and green.

[Monica Padman]

Nothing against wicked, but that wasn't.

[Dax Shepard]

You wanted to be more original.

[Monica Padman]

I just wanted to match the beautiful skirt. The skirt's so cute. It doesn't look wickedy.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think people would think it. I'll ask. I'll ask everyone.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, in full honesty, when I look at our wicked tree, I don't think wicked. Really? No. I mean, green obviously is very embedded into the wicked.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Aesthetic.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I don't know about pink. Does that represent her?

[Monica Padman]

I guess, cuz. Yeah. I think she wears popular stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

What's her name?

[Monica Padman]

Glenda. Glenda.

[Dax Shepard]

Glenda or Galinda.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, Glenda. Glenda. She wears pink. I forgot that I only think green when I think wicked. But you're right, pink is a color.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Apparently it's. It's in a sense, essential part of the sauce. Speaking of Ariana Grande.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Did I already say this on here?

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my sweetest little Delti.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you told me. She's so cute.

[Dax Shepard]

She has her first star, Sheila. Oh. Oh, my God, you guys, I love it so much. It's. It's her version of Lincoln's Taylor Swift. She finally has her girl and it's Ariana Grande. And she has printed up. She goes on the Internet and finds she types in Ariana Grande color. It's in my phone as a search, which is problematic, but because she uses my phone sometimes.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like a drawing outline. And then she prints up all these little things and then she colors them all day long. And then she's now telling me a lot of facts about Ariana Grande. And she wants to know when we're going to interview her.

[Monica Padman]

I know now we have to.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, of course I'll die. I'll die getting her.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Cause my little girl. Anyways, I. It is.

[Monica Padman]

So you have two big gets, Taylor and Arian.

[Dax Shepard]

I know my gals did not shoot love.

[Monica Padman]

They have good taste.

[Dax Shepard]

They went right for the stars. But boy, do I like it. And I really like it's just so cute when you love something when you're little and you start gathering all the facts. And she's telling me about her vocal range and why she's special in this way and that. That way.

[Monica Padman]

So cute.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I love it.

[Monica Padman]

It's a pure time.

[Dax Shepard]

It's pure.

[Monica Padman]

You told me this a little bit ago. And so then some videos have been popping up about her. I mean, I. I get so many Wick Wicked videos, which is kind of weird.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe they know about my tree and they're confused. I. Look, I loved the movie. I love the movie, but I'm not like, some people are die hard wicked and they've seen it multiple times and they.

[Dax Shepard]

They're sing alongs.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. It's a whole.

[Dax Shepard]

So fun.

[Monica Padman]

A whole thing. It's so fun. That's not really me. So I guess I'm. I'm interested. It's interesting that I'm being targeted in that way.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you remember Adam Ozer? We interviewed him.

[Monica Padman]

Instagram.

[Dax Shepard]

Instagram CEO, Head of. Head of Instagram. I don't know what the title is, but I follow him. And you know, there is a feature on Instagram where you can wipe your algorithm.

[Monica Padman]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It's like if you're starting to see stuff too often that you don't like or maybe you watch. In my case, it would be like I watched a fight video because there are certain fight videos I love. If it's like a little guy that was getting bullied by a big guy in a car situation, he gets out and he happens to knock the guy out. I love that.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

But then they think I like every kind of fight and then I just. And then it's sticky. I kind of. It's hard for me to resist looking. Watching fights. And I don't want to watch a bunch of fights.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So like, that's a case. I might go in there and like just wipe it and then start fresh. But that's a feature now.

[Monica Padman]

That's cool. Yeah, I like that.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a very thoughtful, mindful person that's trying to make that thing the best version of it. There's like a real commitment. Remember when he was here, they were gonna hide likes?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

They tested that. They beta tested that.

[Dax Shepard]

And I don't think the consumer wanted that, but they tried, which, and I think in theory was a really kind of good idea.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

But I do appreciate that there seems to be a lot of effort being made to keep it a kind of positive place.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, they have. I think they have whole divisions at MET that are fully ethics based.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right, right, right.

[Monica Padman]

So a lot of the things have to run through that.

[Dax Shepard]

Trying to dial down the polarization and stuff. Yeah. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Quince. Tis the season of holiday gifting. But finding the perfect gift can be pretty overwhelming. For timeless gifts made from premium material at an affordable price, Quince has your back. Quince lets you treat your loved ones and yourself to quality essentials like their Mongolian cashmere sweaters which start at just $50. That's an elevated gift at a price that won't break the bank. Or for more winter coziness, try their super soft fleece sweatpants or their packable puffer jackets. Both perfect for anyone who's traveling for the holidays.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Okay. They also have the called ultra stretch point P O N T E straight leg pants. And they are really, really great. They're great for travel.

[Dax Shepard]

They're very cozy gift luxury this holiday season without the luxury price tag. Go to quince.comdax for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q u I n c e.comdax to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comdax.

[Monica Padman]

I've also gotten a lot of videos about her.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And I sometimes think to send them to you to show Delta. Would you do that or are you like. Probably not. Videos?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, like, I love that she's drawing pictures of her. I don't mind going on the Internet and getting the little things, but I don't really want her just mindlessly ingesting a bunch of videos.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I. E Fights in parking lots.

[Monica Padman]

Right? Yeah, I get that. But how's she learning about like her vocal range and stuff?

[Dax Shepard]

Probably at school. That's where you learn everything, right? Well, one friend learns one thing and they add to the thing. The other friend's like, I heard she owns a Chihuahua. And you're like, yeah, you know, I don't think she owns. I don't even know if she owns a dog. That was just an example. A theoretical example.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Sure, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Can you see if she owns a dog, Rob?

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah, I'm googling it already. She has several dogs, Myron. A Pitbull mix that was left behind by rapper Mac Miller.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, Myron.

[Monica Padman]

All right. Do you have any.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

What?

[Dax Shepard]

Have you.

[Monica Padman]

Have you watched any more Christmas movies?

[Dax Shepard]

The last one was Charlie Brown Christmas and then half of Frosty. Have you watched any?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I watched the Holiday. I mainly just have it on in the background, the holiday. Home Alone, Love, actually again.

[Dax Shepard]

I just think it'd be so trippy to be in one of those movies where, like every single year everyone's reminded of you. It's like a hit song.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't get that with movies. People aren't, like, making time to watch.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's Hurt Locker, which was an incredible movie, but in large part, I'll never be seen again.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So it's kind of a gift. It's a blessing to end up in one of these.

[Monica Padman]

It's a blessing. It's almost like what we do. Sort of like how podcasts are so intimate. They. They become part of the. Your fabric, like your daily fabric. Christmas movies have that. They become part of your traditions.

[Dax Shepard]

They're good triggers.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And like when we had Jude Law on and we talked a little bit about the holiday. Yeah. He's like part of my year.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Always.

[Monica Padman]

Always. And Jack Black, too. I forgot that he was also in my role. In his role.

[Dax Shepard]

But it was almost mine for a minute.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

When he had a scheduling conflict. But then they worked it out.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. You could have been. You could have been.

[Dax Shepard]

I could have been in one of those. Where everyone remembers.

[Monica Padman]

That would be cool.

[Dax Shepard]

They should re release without a paddle and just give it a ton of Christmas songs. Maybe that'll. You can trick.

[Monica Padman]

Well, you're really lucky if you're like Die Hard. I haven't seen it, but Die Hard, which is a Christmas movie. Movie. But it's not. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

It's funny you would say that. Well, no, it's just set during Christmas. You know, I tried to do this with chips and I was a bit heartbroken because I love that just in the background of LA in Lethal Weapon was Christmas. Cause it's so. Especially if you're from Michigan. It's weird that California has Christmas. You're like, how are they doing it? They don't have fucking snow or anything. I guess there's something really neat about it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So I had this great scene between Michael Rosenbaum and Vincent D'Onofrio. And he pulls over Michael. And where we shot it is right at the 101, where you get off at Vine. So in the background was the Capitol Records building. And they always put this enormous Christmas light tree. It's like the shape of a tree on the roof. And it's so iconic. And every shot I kind of built around making sure that was behind Onofrio. And it was so great. And it was the opening scene. And you. I was like, oh, it's great. It's gonna have a Christmas vibe. And we have other Christmas stuff, but when that one went away, that scene didn't make the movie. It was a great scene on its own, but it didn't really service the movie all that well. So that scene got left entirely unseen. And then it really took out the momentum of the Christmas aspect.

[Monica Padman]

Dang.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, But I was trying to do that.

[Monica Padman]

That would have been cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Because I love a little Papa Christmas in the movie. Everyone says triggers in a negative way, but there's really positive triggers.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. I think we think it because guns.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. Well, I think we think it because everyone says I was triggered.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Every fourth sentence.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

In popular culture. Myself guilty of it too. And it's never a good thing at the end of it.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But I. I guess my point is I think it. That originated just even that colloquial term originated from a gun. Trigger.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Or a crossbow, probably.

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Rob, is the home alone house in Chicago, like immortalized at Christmas?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

I used to work not far from it and I'd sometimes just drive over there and eat lunch on the street.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God. Just like outside in my car. Do people.

[Dax Shepard]

And like, they don't love that people.

[Monica Padman]

Hang out there because someone lives there.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

They should.

[Dax Shepard]

They wouldn't like Warner, bro.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, whoever. Colombia should have bought it. Well, I think. And then made it a museum.

[Dax Shepard]

But you can't put a museum in the middle of someone's neighborhood. That does remind me last thing. Lincoln and Delta and I on Sunday we went into Aladina, I think a bit because you and I had shot a commercial there.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Well, that's also funny. Cuz all time. The restaurant. Restaurant I love, you love. We all love. They just opened a new restaurant in Altadena.

[Dax Shepard]

And you went.

[Monica Padman]

And I went. The day before we shot the commercial. And it was so weird because I. Yeah, I never go to Altadena.

[Dax Shepard]

Same.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So we were shooting a commercial there and then I kind of remembered. I think they have a street here that's super Christmassy, known around town. So then I hit up Bri because she lives adjacent to Altadena.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I said, isn't there a strange. Oh, yeah, you gotta go Christmas Tree Lane. It's right by the public library, blah, blah, blah. So. And she said we let the kids hang out the sunroof because you drive really slow. And I was like, okay, great. I got great tips. I'm going to bring the raptor because it's got a huge sunroof. So Lincoln and Delta and I went up to Christmas Tree Lane and we spent two hours just crawling through all the neighborhoods, looking at all of the houses that were decorated. And there are some doozies. I'm so. I'm so proud of those people that put in that effort. Some of these displays, some. That was a week of installation, for sure. There was. There was a full Christmas vacation house. Oh, wow. With like, the characters there. There was. Someone had the lamp from Christmas Story. You know, the dad wins that stupid lamp. It's a sexy leg with a. With a. With a stocking on it, then a lamp shade, and then the dogs break it. And he's so upset. My lamp. My lamp. And he. And he spends his whole time gluing it back together. And that looks insane. Someone had one of the actual things in their window.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Someone put up this huge. It's like you're standing inside of a Christmas photo. They put a big border with Merry Christmas. And it's lit so you can get out and step behind it. So I got the girls standing behind.

[Monica Padman]

Let people, like, come out and walk around.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, there's signs from the city. No, no parking during this time. It's like it's designated as an attraction and you just coast through.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

And people walk.

[Monica Padman]

That's so cool.

[Dax Shepard]

We hung out the sunroof. Not we. Them.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Cute.

[Dax Shepard]

I can't reach the pedals.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

You cruise control.

[Dax Shepard]

Fuck, you're right, Rob. I should have set the cruise on six miles an hour and maybe ghost rided it. Just got out and walked next to it.

[Monica Padman]

That sounds really lovely.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it was really, really fun. And then we made the mistake of going to the in out in Altadena. And it was. It was a record waiting. It was a record.

[Monica Padman]

How are they doing this? It's. There's always. I've never been in my entire life and there's not been a line at random times. It's pretty cool. Good for them because they don't. They don't build out for it and they don't market. Like, I've never seen a commercial for In N Out.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Bri and I used to see those commercials because we would sing. That was our love song.

[Monica Padman]

What was it?

[Dax Shepard]

The song was in and Out. That's what a hamburger's all about. But we would say what made it our love song is we would say in and out. That's what a hand in burger's all about. We would say handenburger. That's what made it a love song?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I thought you. I like that because I thought you were going to make it gross dirty, like.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that would be a sex song, Right. One more thing about In N Out. My mother went to California when I was a kid. When I was a skateboarder, we couldn't believe she was going to California, usa. We had never been. We never even met people that went to California.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And when she came back, what she had seen while she was out there, this is what a good mom she was. She had seen other skateboarders and they had the In N Out sticker on their skateboards. It would say In N Out Burger. And the skateboarders would cut off the B and the R so it said In N Out Urge. Oh, and she brought back a stack of the stickers for David and I and she showed us how to cut off the thing.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Cute. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And were people like, that's so cool, man.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, People thought was really cool.

[Monica Padman]

California, like, oh, my God, the land of fruit nuts. I told you, my friend's mom said that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Were you. Was California like a crazy fantasy as well for you?

[Monica Padman]

No, it was a fantasy that I wanted to go live there, but just.

[Dax Shepard]

As a place long before, like, I wanted to be in show business. It was just like, oh, they surf out there, they skateboard out there. There's palm trees out there.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

We were infected with the fantasy of it.

[Monica Padman]

I was infected with the fantasy of Hollywood, and I knew that was there. We went on a fan family vacation when I was 11.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, see, okay. Well, then that maybe. Yeah, then it's a real place. So of course you wouldn't have had that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. We did the tour.

[Dax Shepard]

The first time I went. I think my mom took me when I was maybe 14 or 15 to do leg work for a car show. So we were working.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But we flew in. We went to Riverside. That's where the car show was, Riverboy Speedway. What a. No disrespect to Riverside, folks. Not the fantasy of California. Sure. Like a land. You're 50 miles from the ocean.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's industrial.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's sprawling. I was like, this is California.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But then we went to San Francisco because we had leg work up there. And then. And then we rode the trolley.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was like, well, this is a fantasy land.

[Monica Padman]

Definitely.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

We went to Chinatown and we went to San Diego. Went to the zoo.

[Dax Shepard]

You did. Your parents are good, Good parents.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, very.

[Dax Shepard]

Took their little girl all over.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Show her the world.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That bit them in the butt.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you split.

[Monica Padman]

She left.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. They shouldn't have shown you this place.

[Monica Padman]

No, we say right by the airport and you could hear the. The planes, the whole.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. That's my Riverside experience.

[Monica Padman]

Anyway, okay, so this. So Jesse. Ding, ding, ding. He lives in Hollywood. Actually doesn't. I think he lives in New York. Damn it.

[Dax Shepard]

But he has done a lot of work here in Hollywood.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I feel bad because when you talked about Jesse's sister, I was like. I was. It was new information, and I reacted as such. And then like four seconds later, I was like, oh, I did know that.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you already knew that.

[Monica Padman]

But I forgot. And when you said it sounded new.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And then I felt fraudulent.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't know. I'm wondering what percentage of the audience will know immediately who I'm talking about. Because as soon as I heard Pepsi Girl, I could see her in my head, the spirally curls.

[Monica Padman]

Let's bring up a picture of her on tv. Rob, search bicycles in Paris on the TV show.

[Dax Shepard]

Where's the. I think that's Austria. Oh, that's what I think.

[Monica Padman]

I think.

[Dax Shepard]

God, is it beautiful.

[Monica Padman]

I think it might be Ireland. There she is. Look how cute she is.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, she loves her Pepsis.

[Monica Padman]

And you know what else?

[Dax Shepard]

Look at her little teeth.

[Monica Padman]

I know. She looks like him.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Like, they definitely have a family resemblance.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. I wonder if he thinks she's so cute. He didn't say so in the interview.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, yeah. Of course not. It's his sister.

[Monica Padman]

Well, you think your sister's so cute.

[Dax Shepard]

My sister is cute.

[Monica Padman]

You talk about it all the time.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't talk about how cute my sister is all the time.

[Monica Padman]

I'm just kidding. But if your sister is known as being, like, the cutest girl in America.

[Dax Shepard]

I wonder if I would hate it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Even if it was your little sister.

[Dax Shepard]

No, if it were her, I'd like it. I want the best for her. I always have. Well, that's great.

[Monica Padman]

I love her dimples. Dimples are a thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Great dimps.

[Monica Padman]

If and when science is good enough, which it will be. I'm going to pick dimples for my kid.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know if people with dimples like dimples, even though we all like their dimples.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's. They're crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

Lincoln was just telling me that there are now a trend on social media is there's like a freckle filter. People put freckles on themselves. And what a. What a turn of events. Everyone with freckles didn't want them.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was trying to explain to her, look, here's how it goes, Link. Whatever you don't have, you want. I wanted curly black hair. Sure. Everyone with curly black hair wanted straight blonde hair.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

I had a ton of freckles. It was like a fart cloud on my face. And of course, I didn't want freckles.

[Monica Padman]

Right. But what happened to your freckles? I don't see any.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't? It's probably too much skin, like sun damage under. I bet if we. If I got good. If I got, like, acidy facials, maybe it would reveal them.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

But, you know, my arms are freckled to high heaven.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

It's almost like. Like I'm almost turning a person of color just on the arms. If you just saw my arms, maybe with age.

[Monica Padman]

Also, freckles dissipate on the face. Just this. I would say the sun exposure. But that also seems counterintuitive because sun also brings out freckles. A lot of people in the summer, their freckles come out pop.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, in the summer, my freckles were on fire.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Link's got freckles. A lot of freckles.

[Monica Padman]

Freckles are so cute.

[Dax Shepard]

They are cute.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah. So I'm going to pick dimples.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

For my kid.

[Dax Shepard]

When you get your designer kid.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

A girl with dimples.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, can you imagine? She's going to be so cute.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a cute name, too, for what it is. It's on amount of people.

[Monica Padman]

Dimples. It is.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I do think if I go to my face guy, if I tell him I want dimples, he would do it.

[Dax Shepard]

Easiest thing for them to do because.

[Monica Padman]

They just carve out.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I. I don't know if I understand how it works, but I do believe there's some kind of a facelift you can get with strings where they put string in your. In your face somehow. So clearly, they could just put the string in and suck that part of the string in. And if they haven't invented that, that's mine.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

They do a dimple plasty.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Incision in your cheek. Remove a small amount of muscle and fat, and it creates a dimple.

[Dax Shepard]

Actually, that's not why.

[Monica Padman]

That's the. What I. What I said. I said carve something out.

[Dax Shepard]

You're right.

[Monica Padman]

Why? Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

I want string involved.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

It's only $1,500.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that sounds way too cheap for facial surgery. I don't want. This is not where you want to save a buck I'm going to come.

[Monica Padman]

Back in the new year.

[Dax Shepard]

You have six dimples, you get multiple dimples.

[Monica Padman]

Do you think if you like, what went wrong? So I did another one.

[Dax Shepard]

If you like two dimples, why wouldn't you like four?

[Monica Padman]

When I design my kid, she's going to have one each on each side.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I guess I have to figure out exactly where. And then she's going to have curly hair.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think I have to design. I think she's going to have naturally curly hair like me. Well, I guess depends on who her dad is.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. But naturally curly hair.

[Dax Shepard]

Don't get with Caucasoid. Lowers your chance.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. But remember I saw that Mixed Girl at Mixed Late Woman.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That you were obsessed with and turned out her parent. One of her parents was Indian.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. She was so pretty.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Look, have a kid with Carrot Top or something. Ooh, that's a good idea.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, curly. Okay, I like that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Red, curly hair, dimples.

[Monica Padman]

And then I'm gonna give her.

[Dax Shepard]

Are there any Indians with red hair?

[Monica Padman]

I've never seen one. Well, that's natural. People dye their hair, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, sure.

[Monica Padman]

That's a recessive gene that I don't think has made its way to dominance. All right, anyway, Jesse. Jesse. Jesse has sort of red hair.

[Dax Shepard]

Does he?

[Monica Padman]

I'm not sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, there's those crickets. Yep.

[Monica Padman]

Crickets. Okay. What is going on? What is going on in LA with crickets? Because this happened when I was recording something else in a different location and.

[Dax Shepard]

We had to stop because Cricket infestation. Yeah. I don't know what's going on because there's. They're here in the studio. And then when I'm in the hot tub at night, there's. It's so loud behind my head, the crickets. It's interesting because in the summertime in Michigan, and I love the sound of crickets.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

In the hot tub at night or when we're recording. I hate it. Again, we had this moment last week where the guest was becoming very emotional, and it was a very sweet moment. And like, almost like someone cued the crowd. Like there was a second crickets. Crickets. Crickets.

[Monica Padman]

God.

[Dax Shepard]

The PA was like, cue the crickets. Also another. Crickets were so loud in there, and I was like, oh, my God, this is Paris.

[Monica Padman]

You didn't hear that because it was a big enough. It was a sweet enough moment that I think you're in it. But, I mean, this is, like, not good for sound.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Well, they're invested in the Garage rubber.

[Dax Shepard]

Cause when we do. When that new couch came, Carly and I opened the garage to move it.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

In, and probably 400 crickets came out.

[Dax Shepard]

So we need to get some cricket poison.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I read you can do peppermint tea.

[Dax Shepard]

Brew a pot of peppermint tea and splash it everywhere.

[Monica Padman]

They don't like peppermint tea.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And some other aromatherapies.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Speaking of, do mice. Another unwanted pest.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Unless you're talking about me. Yeah. Love eating plastic.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, they.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, they eat plastic. They do.

[Dax Shepard]

They ain't my boss.

[Monica Padman]

And they chew right through it to keep their incisors from growing too long.

[Dax Shepard]

What if I took that mouse to court, like a small claims court, and I said, look, you, $3,500 worth of damage here on my bus. And the mouse is standing there. Maybe the mouse has a lawyer. I'm not sure.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

But the mouse is just there, and they're. What do you say about this? And he's just like. And you go, oh, he loves plastic. That's what he's saying.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, well, he loves plastic. Okay, so ebay, Zathura astronaut costume. Not there anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

People snatched them up as they should.

[Dax Shepard]

They were like, 15 bucks.

[Monica Padman]

Right. You can buy spacesuits, though, on there.

[Dax Shepard]

You can if you want.

[Monica Padman]

They're thousands of dollars.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I don't have such an interest in aeronautics or.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

It's just more. I had an interest in keeping my costume.

[Monica Padman]

Nostalgia.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

All right. Was Squid in the Whale Noah Bomback's first movie? No, it was called Kicking and screaming in 1995. That was his first movie.

[Dax Shepard]

That's different than the Will Ferrell Kicking and Screaming, though. I think it is.

[Monica Padman]

It's different.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. This is about four young men who graduate from college and refuse to move on with their lives. Okay. When we cease to understand the world. Author, is he French? 10 different. He's from 10 different countries. He was born in the Netherlands. He spent his childhood in Buenos Aires and Lima, and then he moved to Santiago at the age of 14.

[Dax Shepard]

So a lot of countries.

[Monica Padman]

Lot of countries. And if you type in, is Benjamin Labattu French? It says. No. Oh, no, he is Chilean, not French.

[Dax Shepard]

But do they mean his nationality or his ethnicity?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it says nationality. He is a Chilean author. Birthplace, childhood? It just. It doesn't say. It doesn't say. Like, his dad is from. It doesn't say that.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. I sent it to Kutcher the other day. I said, I don't know if I've already recommended this book or not sent him the link on audible. And then he said, I'm pretty sure I'm the one who recommended this to you.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no.

[Dax Shepard]

Which is possible. I don't. I can't remember how it came across my desk. Take it off your chest. Get it off my desk. That's your Ariana Grande.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, well, my Ariana Grande is Friends, I guess. Like that I sat that Pure Time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Who was. Do you love any singers?

[Monica Padman]

Britney.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Good for you. It's Brittany Bridge.

[Monica Padman]

I know. Except I didn't really. No, I did. I did. But I was not like I liked friends or nothing. I wasn't owning it in the way that.

[Dax Shepard]

Probably more just to be involved.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, definitely. I was more into yacht rock.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't know shit about yacht.

[Monica Padman]

I was actually. Because my dad would play music in his car. Soft rock.

[Dax Shepard]

Soft rock.

[Monica Padman]

The soft rock station is the yacht rock station.

[Dax Shepard]

So that's like. Yeah, Carly Simons goes in there. James Taylor. Soft rock for sure.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yacht rock is a subset of software.

[Monica Padman]

All right. Yeah, okay. That's fine. Okay, well, I think I said this already, but I am planning on reading this book over the Christmas break.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, good.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. I'm excited to read it.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a goodie. One of my faves. I'm re listening to it right now.

[Monica Padman]

And I'll read the Maniac and I'm going to read three more books.

[Dax Shepard]

You're writing a lot of checks that I don't know that your little buns are going to cash.

[Monica Padman]

We'll see.

[Dax Shepard]

All right.

[Monica Padman]

All right. Happy holiday.

[Dax Shepard]

Happy holidays. Love you.

[Monica Padman]

Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Follow Armchair Expert on the OneDry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

Hello, ladies and germs, boys and girls. The Grinch is back again to ruin your Christmas season with T the Grinch Holiday podcast. After last year, he's learned a thing or two about hosting and he's ready to rant against Christmas cheer and roast his celebrity guests like chestnuts on an open fire.

[Dax Shepard]

You can listen with the whole family.

[Jesse Eisenberg]

As guest stars like Jon Hamm, Brittany Broski, and Danny DeVito try to persuade the mean old Grinch that there's a lot to love about the insufferable holiday season. But that's not all. Somebody stole all the children of Whoville's letters to Santa, and everybody thinks the Grinch is responsible. It's a real Whoville Whodunit. Can Cindy Lou and Max help clear the Grinch's name? Grab your hot cocoa and cozy slippers to find out. Follow Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Unlock weekly Christmas mystery bonus content and listen to every episode ad free by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery App, Spotify or Apple Podcasts.