Joel Edgerton

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Guest: Joel Edgerton

Release Date: November 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features Australian actor, writer, and director Joel Edgerton, whose latest film “Train Dreams” has just been released on Netflix. Dax, Monica Padman, and Joel delve into Joel’s upbringing in Australia, his circuitous path to mainstream Hollywood, themes of masculinity and vulnerability, filmmaking family dynamics, and deep reflections inspired by his latest role. The conversation is candid and engaging, traversing topics from childhood stunts and sibling rivalry to the changing nature of modern life and male emotional expression.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Joel's Personal Life & Relationship with Style (03:01–07:14)

• Vintage Watches & Shopping Habits:
  Joel shares his passion for old watches, recounting shopping for vintage pieces in Budapest and Tokyo. He speaks about feeling self-conscious wearing fancy watches, preferring inexpensive vintage ones over showy modern designs.

  “I thought I'd wanted to go and get a really fancy expensive watch and I did and I barely wear it. And the watches I love are these watches I got for like 50 bucks.” — Joel Edgerton (03:29)

• Fashion Influences:
  Dax brings up Joel's wife, Christine, who’s the editor-in-chief at Vogue Australia. Joel credits her for upping his style, sharing that she can instantly judge his outfits with a subtle glance.

• How They Met:
  Despite knowing each other since the 1990s through Australian social circles, Joel and Christine didn’t become a couple until 2018, after years of mutual acquaintances and evolving circumstances.

2. Australian Upbringing, Family, Masculinity (07:14–30:44)

• Sibling Dynamics:
  Joel’s close relationship with his brother Nash—stuntman, filmmaker, and daredevil—heavily influenced his path into filmmaking. Nash was prone to wild stunts as a kid, while Joel was less inclined to match his risk-taking but learned from Nash’s fearless approach.

• Masculinity and Emotional Expression:
  The trio discuss changing perceptions of masculinity, Joel’s admiration for actors like Russell Crowe who combine alpha-male presence with tenderness, and the generational transmission of stoicism vs. emotional openness in men.

  “The deficit of old school masculinity is tenderness ... The moment you feel the tenderness from a male figure in your life, I think it sets better cues.” — Joel Edgerton (27:23)

3. Careers, Fame, and Meeting Heroes (11:21–23:39)

• Being Recognized:
  Joel recalls his discomfort when strangers approached him purely because of his fame. He prefers relationships formed outside the context of celebrity.
• Who Makes Joel Starstruck:
  Athletes—especially tennis players and gymnasts—excite Joel more than meeting movie stars. Notable story: meeting Javier Bardem and seeing him act heroically in Madrid, reinforcing Joel’s admiration for character over celebrity.
• Film Industry Culture:
  Dax and Joel riff about the unique ‘safe’ feeling of being a supporting actor and how his “little brother” dynamic equipped him to blend into big productions and learn from stars like Clive Owen, Johnny Depp, and Leonardo DiCaprio.

4. Stunts, Danger, and the Nature of Risk in Film (16:19–21:59)

• Joel recounts harrowing stunt stories involving his brother and others, emphasizing the physical and psychological complexity of professional stunt work.

• The inherent risks and the filmmakers’ responsibility towards crew safety, especially after widely publicized set accidents.

  “That’s a good thought process for all of us directors to think about when we’re asking people to do stuff — what if my brother was doing this?” — Dax Shepard (21:49)

5. Modern Rage, Male Socialization, and Primal Instincts (22:43–26:27)

• The panel talks about “middle class rage,” suppressed aggression in safe societies, and the male inclination towards rites of passage, stunts, or competitive activities as outlets for primal wiring.

  “We live these very safe lives, so fight or flight gets triggered by the most benign things ... It’s a weird thing.” — Joel Edgerton (23:57)

6. Parenting, Vulnerability, and Raising Boys (26:27–30:44)

• Joel reflects on fatherhood, raising twins (a boy and a girl), and his intention to cultivate emotional openness, especially in his son.
• He shares a lighthearted parenting anecdote involving “webbing” conflicts among four-year-olds.

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7. Career Milestones: From Australia to Hollywood (34:53–47:41)

• Family Influence:
  Joel comes from a family with a performer-lawyer dad and a multi-talented brother. Despite not being in show business, his father was a “real raconteur,” shaping Joel’s approach to storytelling.
• Hard Work, Luck, and George Lucas:
  Joel describes his “Stars Wars” casting as “pure luck” — George Lucas had to cast Australians for the prequels, and Joel's physical resemblance to a young “Uncle Owen” clinched it.
• Supporting vs. Lead Roles:
  He likens himself to “Scotty Pippen,” supporting “heavy-hitter” actors and enjoying the learning process.
• ‘Warrior’ & Working with Tom Hardy:
  Joel discusses training for “Warrior,” the intensity of preparation, and director Gavin O'Connor’s practice of treating every scene as the most important.

8. Train Dreams: A Simple Life, Loss, and Beautiful Cinema (50:13–1:00:01)

• About the Film:
  Dax lauds “Train Dreams” as one of the most beautiful movies he’s seen: “It's been a minute since a movie got me this much ... I just have not stopped thinking about it.” (50:13)

• Themes:
  The film is a “celebration of an ordinary life,” capturing the brutality, loss, and quiet heroism of a logger in 1917. Joel is moved by the universality and scale of personal tragedy and resilience.

• Acting with Restraint:
  The role required near-silent expressiveness. Joel references “Loving” as preparation for this kind of performance.

  “If you think those things, they’ll be there for the camera ... making sure that with the hardest stuff in the film, I just knew how to keep a lid on it.” — Joel Edgerton (56:35)

• Life’s Peaks, Kindness, and Regrowth:
  The importance of everyday kindness, community, and the idea that life, while often brutal, is also marked by beauty and resilience.

9. On Technology, Modern Abundance, and Gratefulness (1:07:10–1:09:10)

• Dax and Joel discuss the rapid shift from subsistence living to modern abundance—how such progress didn’t necessarily create lasting satisfaction or gratitude.

  “I'm so shook when I see that movie of how unsafe we all feel and how much we all still pine for things ... we live in total abundance and that we can eat whenever we want ... And then within five minutes, it's literally about do you have phone 12 or 13 as a crisis? ... How could we have problems when the abundance has arrived?” — Dax Shepard (71:48)

• Amusing aside about how early video cameras made people feel the need to narrate everything they filmed.

10. Male Intimacy, Homophobia, and Social Stigmas (59:20–65:40)

• The group examines men’s fear of expressing physical affection due to societal stigma and homophobia, sharing anecdotes about awkward male bonding and the lasting grip of early social shame.

  “Men don’t get together and brush each other’s hair ... there's no world where—apart from maybe my brother ... and it's fear of intimacy.” — Joel Edgerton (60:01)

  "Specifically, it's a fear of being called gay from when we were younger." — Dax Shepard (60:27)

• Monica references the show “Couples Therapy” and how even minor secrets about sexuality can burden men for years—furthering her sympathy for men’s emotional struggles.

11. Social Progress and Backlash (65:00–65:40)

• Joel reflects on making "Boy Erased" and the sad reality that acceptance for LGBTQ+ people remains inconsistent, even regressing in some areas.

  “Literally 10 miles down the road, you'd be keeping a secret ... all rights and freedoms and general acceptance of things, it becomes okay to march all progress backwards.” — Joel Edgerton (65:00)

12. Modern Challenges: Social Media, Creativity, and Generational Shifts (81:10–83:00)

• Concerns about raising children in a digital world dominated by social media validation.
• Nostalgia for boredom-induced creativity—drawing, daydreaming, and building imaginary worlds.
• The increasing pressure for young people to perform and be seen on social media.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “One of the most beautiful movies I've ever seen … I keep thinking about it.”
  — Dax Shepard on Train Dreams (00:49)

• On masculinity:
  “My idea of masculinity used to be Chuck Norris, Arnold Schwarzenegger ... but the idea of sensitivity mixed within masculinity ... as bearded as we can all get as masculine, we're still a child, you know?”
  — Joel Edgerton (25:46)

• On fame and forming relationships:
  “The realization that the only reason she’d done it is because she’d seen me on television ... whereas I love where when people are disinterested, it becomes even keeled and good.”
  — Joel Edgerton (11:21)

• The power of kindness:
  "At the core of us, that as kids, until we're corrupted, that we are actually wired to look after each other. Even if we're not family, we don't really want to hurt each other.”
  — Joel Edgerton (76:07)

• On the legacy of old school masculinity:
  “I think that's the deficit of old school masculinity, is tenderness. And this is why I think masculinity continues on through generations of being stoic and nonverbal and inexpressive because you take your cues from the person above you.”
  — Joel Edgerton (27:23)

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Highlighted Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Quote/Event | |---------------|----------------------------------------------------------| | 03:29 | Joel on preferring vintage watches | | 07:14–10:57 | Story of meeting his wife Christine & reflections on relationships | | 23:57 | Joel on “middle class rage” and the loss of primal outlets| | 25:46 | The changing definition of masculinity | | 27:23 | On the deficit of tenderness in traditional masculinity | | 34:53 | Joel’s dad’s influence and family storytelling | | 50:13 | Dax's effusive praise for Train Dreams | | 56:35 | Discussing acting with restraint in Train Dreams | | 59:20 | Fear of male intimacy and social stigma | | 60:01 | “Men don’t get together and brush each other’s hair” | | 65:00 | Aftermath of "Boy Erased" – progress and setbacks | | 71:48 | “How could we have problems when the abundance has arrived?” | | 76:07 | “At the core ... we are actually wired to look after each other.” |

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Tone & Language

The episode maintains the inviting, introspective, and often humorous tone characteristic of Armchair Expert. Dax is candid, effusive, and self-deprecating; Monica is thoughtful and empathetic; Joel is open, articulate, and good-humored, frequently punctuating serious insights with levity.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a compelling look at Joel Edgerton’s personal and professional growth, the complexities of masculinity, the role of vulnerability in relationships, and the enduring power of simple, beautiful storytelling as embodied in Train Dreams. The trio’s honest, often funny, often moving conversation is a testament to the human truths Dax seeks to draw from his guests—making this a must-listen for fans of thoughtful, wide-ranging podcasts about life, art, and being human.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Padman.

[Monica Padman]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Today we have a very handsome and rugged yet sensitive and sweet man.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Joel Edgerton.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

God, he was a delight.

[Monica Padman]

He really was. This was. I didn't know much about Joel and so I was really happy that we got to know him and his project is incredible.

[Dax Shepard]

It is. So of course you know him from Loving Warrior, the gift bright dark matter. But he has. You know, I don't go out on a limb. I don't. I'm telling you right now, this is one of the most beautiful movies I've ever seen. Yeah, it's just sat with me since I've saw it. I keep thinking about it. Train Dreams, which is out on Netflix on the 21st. Just in time for Thanksgiving. It is actually, you know, it's a great movie to see right before Thanksgiving because it gives you so much gratitude for the abundance we live in and have no gratitude for and take for granted. Cause it's just a very simple story about someone in 1917 and man, it was fucking horrid.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So, yes, Joel Edgerton, he's great. I also want to say that my heart is broken for Cleto and his family and my friends, the Kimmels. And boy, that's such a bummer. And I send all my love to everyone.

[Monica Padman]

Me too.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Please enjoy. Joel Edgerton, armchair expert, is proud to have Alexa as our presenting sponsor. The all new Alexa is your smart, proactive AI assistant. Just chat naturally about anything and watch your to do list disappear. It learns your style and anticipates what's next across Echo, Fire TV and more. Learn more at Amazon.com newalexa we are supported by Ms. Now. Whether it's breaking news, exclusive reporting or in depth analysis, Mississippi NOW keeps people at the heart of everything they do, empowering Americans with the information and insights that can bring us together. Home to the Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, the Briefing with Jen Psaki and more Voices you know and tr.ms. now is your source for news, opinion and the world. Their name is new, but you'll find the same commitment to truth and community that you've relied on for years. They'll continue to cover the day's most important stories, ask the tough questions and explain how it all impacts you. Same mission New Name miss Now. Learn more at Ms. Now. He's an object.

[Monica Padman]

He's an.

[Joel Edgerton]

Hi, sorry I'm a bit late.

[Dax Shepard]

Nice to meet you.

[Joel Edgerton]

Hello, dude.

[Dax Shepard]

Good.

[Monica Padman]

Hi, nice to meet you. Welcome.

[Dax Shepard]

What should I see right there? Well, you look very cute in this outfit. You look very relaxed. Playful beach vibes. Let me see your watch really quick. I like the Daytona esque dials of it all.

[Joel Edgerton]

My wife bought this for me. Probably hasn't been wound.

[Dax Shepard]

Gorgeous.

[Joel Edgerton]

It was made in the year I was born.

[Dax Shepard]

That's cute. 74.

[Joel Edgerton]

74. So it's a very old watch. I love old. Like I was in Budapest and I bought a bunch of old watches from markets. I thought I'd wanted to go and get a really fancy expensive watch and I did and I barely wear it. And the watches I love are these watches I got for like 50 bucks.

[Dax Shepard]

These Budapest watches.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah, like World War II kind of, you know, old German and Russian watches.

[Dax Shepard]

One very nice watch too. And I don't wear it ever. Why don't you wear yours?

[Joel Edgerton]

I feel like it makes me seem like a show off. I was in Tokyo for two days. Someone had told me you could get really good deals on really fancy watches there. And so I went shopping for watch and I got it. I've worn it a handful of times but I do feel like I'm a bit of a shof when I'm wearing.

[Monica Padman]

You're self conscious call poppy.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. But one of the things I do is I do a lot of my shopping on other men. Literally. I'll see something someone's wearing and I'm like, I think I know where that's from. Double R.L.

[Dax Shepard]

Good job.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Really good work. Wait, does this predate your wife and Monica? I was going to save this because you'll be so excited but his wife is the editor in chief at Australia Vogue.

[Monica Padman]

Oh wow. Incredible.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. And my clothing game's definitely upped. Well, you got it as I my clothing then punched above my waist.

[Dax Shepard]

So you really nailed this. And I'm going to tell you, I saw it on Instagram promoted to me. They know what I like and I found my way to this like two months ago. So I certainly would not have known this was Double R a couple months ago.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Why are you.

[Joel Edgerton]

I just happen to have seen that shirt and I know this.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you own it?

[Joel Edgerton]

No, I don't own it.

[Dax Shepard]

Did it pique your interest? Did you think about.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah, I did like it.

[Monica Padman]

Are you going to get it now?

[Dax Shepard]

I feel like I should give it to You.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, a shirt off your back.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I kind of do.

[Joel Edgerton]

You know, years ago I met a producer on a film and he said to me that when he was a kid, his mum dressed him for his first day of school in a three piece suit. And he went to school and I'll start the story by saying he kept asking me what I was wearing and he asked if he could have a look at the tag. And three days after one of these moments, he turned up on set wearing the jacket that I had bought and that I'd been wearing three days earlier. And then he told me the story. His mum had dressed him in a three piece suit for school. All the kids teased him.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Joel Edgerton]

And he went home crying and his mum, the kids would tease me about my suit. She said, well, you go to school tomorrow and look at what all the other kids are wearing and then come home and tell me and we'll go shopping for you.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that was sweet of her.

[Joel Edgerton]

And that was when he was like 5, 6 years old. And ever since then what he does is he walks around to other men and he's like, what is this? And looks at the tag and then he goes shopping. And I was like, that's kind of what I do. I look at what people and watches is one of them.

[Monica Padman]

I hope your wife watches this because I think she will appreciate my outfit.

[Dax Shepard]

Of course, like Joel knew about me. She'll know right away.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Joel Edgerton]

And you'll know if my wife likes or doesn't like your outfit. And I'll tell you why I'm not sure. When I left to come here, because she was the last person I saw and I ran into the room to grab something and she looked at me and I was like, I wonder if I'm going to get an appraisal or not. I can tell by a micro expression. And sometimes I'll walk in and if my arms are out, it's basically like, what do you think? And then I get a look. And depending on the look, sometimes I'm already taking the outfit off.

[Dax Shepard]

Can you do the look? You're a good actor. Okay.

[Joel Edgerton]

Kind of like, yeah, that's great. Super slight disapproval. Yeah, disapproval. But she's got great taste. Hopefully that extends to her choice in husband's.

[Dax Shepard]

Good. I was going to ask this very far at the end after I had warmed you up and gained your trust, but I am curious how you guys knew each other since the 90s but you didn't get together until 2018.

[Joel Edgerton]

There's like 48 people in Australia.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Joel Edgerton]

We all know each other. She used to work at a magazine, Harper's Bazaar, and I'm talking about the late 90s, and I was a young actor, and I just remember meeting her, but I knew a lot of people at the time, and then we just saw each other in social circles for years. And then in the sort of five or six years before we got together, she'd become very close friends with my brother and his wife. So we knew each other super well as friends.

[Dax Shepard]

But were there not vibes throughout any of those different encounters? Like, were you doing the Secret Life of Us when you met? When she was at Harper's, were you, like, already on tv?

[Joel Edgerton]

I don't know that anyone would have looked at my hairstyle during the Secret Life of Us. And gone, there's a cat.

[Dax Shepard]

That's the guy.

[Joel Edgerton]

That plume of fake blonde hair. The interesting thing was I had gone through. And I won't go too much into this, but I'd gone through a string of relationships, complicated ones, some of them. And she was in a very solid relationship for a long time.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, okay, that explains that.

[Joel Edgerton]

And so quite often at these dinners, I was being ripped apart by my brother and his wife. They were very judgy about me and my approach to relationships. Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm sure they had some good points.

[Joel Edgerton]

That's a good point. But I will say, in hindsight, I often look back on those relationships and go, you have to make sure that you acknowledge that it takes two to tango. You know, you can't just blame someone else for being terrible to you. Although there is one. There was a character assassination. There was a potshot or two taken me at most of those dinners by Nash, your brother? Yeah. Just in general. And I think quietly in the background, people like to talk about other people when they're not around.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, sure. Yeah. It's very fun.

[Joel Edgerton]

It all came from a place of caring. I think they wanted the best for me.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Also, that's this great thing about siblings. Siblings tell you exactly what's going, oh, you have shit in your teeth. Oh, you look ugly in that jacket. There's no threat of leaving. So the honesty's off the charts.

[Joel Edgerton]

And my brother's an incredible touchstone of honesty for me when it comes to work. Anything he'll tell me straight. I know for a fact that there were two people when Christine became single. Well, like, hey, do you ever think Joel? And her answer, I probably can't even repeat on this podcast. But when my mum mentioned it at some point, she's like, no, Way great.

[Dax Shepard]

I'd love to hear that.

[Monica Padman]

Because of your reputation from these dinners.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah, but look, I don't think my reputation was too bad. I think it was more the fact that I was a guy in my mid-40s who just hadn't quite settled down. And to be honest, in fairness to me, my passion for work and the journeys that it takes you on geographically, travel. Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of people were interested in actors and go, wow, it's so exciting. And we know it's really not that glamorous. And then once they get close to you or involve you, they're like, all right, you're going where? For how long? So you're not really a reliable source of continuity, and it puts people in a vulnerable position to be a passenger in someone else's life.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. I don't want to be a passenger.

[Joel Edgerton]

No. I love being a plus one, though. I really enjoy going places to support Christine. And when she's there to support me, I appreciate I'm constantly sensitive to how weird it all is. Yeah, she's so cool about those worlds in general, even though she lives in the world of fashion. But it's got similar. You know, it intersects in its own way enough for her to understand. And what I love most of all is whenever I've invited her to set, mainly because I want the kids to come, like, on train dreams, I got to ride on a horse and cart. It's like, can you bring the kids set? The last thing in the world she wants to do, not cause she's not supportive, but she doesn't want to be that person hanging around on a set where she's just someone standing there not doing anything.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I was going to say, she has demonstrated that she is an industrious, focused human being. And to stand there and be useless for eight hours is a rough feeling when you are generally of use to people.

[Joel Edgerton]

And I think what sort of made our relationship work in the early days, too, was the real that she'd barely watched anything I'd ever been involved in.

[Dax Shepard]

So she has great taste circles back.

[Joel Edgerton]

I had become aware over the years. I remembered the first time anyone ever walked over to me in a bar and was, like, really interested to talk to me. And the realization that the only reason she'd done it is because she'd seen me on television, that she had an idea of who I was and a fascination with who I was without even knowing me at all. Whereas I love where when people are disinterested, it becomes even keeled and good. And our relationship works for a hundred reasons and that's one of them.

[Dax Shepard]

Monica has the same thing as you. And I don't get it. Okay, yes. Some gal at the bar saw you in something and loved you, so she appreciates the thing you do. And she comes over for one reason. But you have your own swag and charisma and value. And so who cares if that's how the door got opened unless you have some crazy fear of I'm going to really be a disappointment. Let the person down. Who gives a flying fuck why someone enters the picture? This is Monica's issue too. You guys can gang up on me.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Can you guys put together a cohesive reason why that's an issue? That someone is aware of you before they meet you?

[Joel Edgerton]

Well, yeah, it's hard to articulate.

[Dax Shepard]

It's a trust issue. Right. It's like there's a built in mistrust.

[Joel Edgerton]

It's more that I sort of mistrust somebody who is taken with the allure of you because they have an idea that fame is something special or that notoriety or a profile or whatever you would call it.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. So now we're parsing it out. Yeah, that's an issue if someone wants to be in the spotlight. But let's say you and I. Did you see her?

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. Joaquin.

[Dax Shepard]

Joaquin. But even Scarlett Johansson unseen afterwards. I'm like, I'm in love with that robot too. I understand exactly why he feels that way. Or after seeing her and name the movie when I was younger. And if I start at the bar, I definitely want to go chat with her. And then she'll either really live up to my thing or she won't.

[Monica Padman]

But she can't. That's the problem. She has scarlet.

[Dax Shepard]

She might exceed it.

[Monica Padman]

You have your own relationship with her in your head. That's a fantasy. That's like the best case scenario. No real human can live up to that. And so it is a disappointment.

[Joel Edgerton]

Oh, this whole idea too of never meet your heroes is an interesting one. But you know who really kind of gets me excited? And this is separate from gender or attraction. Actors have never really been the thing that got me jittery. Sports people.

[Dax Shepard]

There we go.

[Monica Padman]

Athletes.

[Joel Edgerton]

I met a bunch of old school famous tennis players. And I remember getting nervous. This is a weird one. I don't know if anyone out there will know this one, but I was obsessed when I grew up in Dural with of all things, pole vaulting. I used to cut down a sapling.

[Dax Shepard]

You wanted to be a pole vault?

[Joel Edgerton]

I wanted to be a pole vault. It was right around the time of the 84 Olympics. California Olympics. Put elastic between two trees. Get a sapling. Drag my mattress out into the lawn.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, Tiny bullseye for you.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

A mattress.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

This sounds. You better stick that fucking land in.

[Joel Edgerton]

And Sergey Bu was the greatest pole vaulter of all time. He never won a gold medal, but he won the world championships, and he held the world record. I met him when I was 32 years old and got to shake his hand. He's only about my height.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Joel Edgerton]

But he has the hands of, like, Andre the Giant. It was like he'd stitch someone else's hands on. And I was like, I don't want to hold that thing.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Joel Edgerton]

That was probably the most starstruck I'd ever been.

[Monica Padman]

I was obsessed with the Romanian gymnasts.

[Joel Edgerton]

I met Nadia Komanie.

[Monica Padman]

You did?

[Joel Edgerton]

I met Martin and Navratilova. These people got me far more excited. Excited than anybody I'd ever met before.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, this is juicy. No movie star.

[Joel Edgerton]

What do you mean, no movie star?

[Dax Shepard]

Not a single movie star. Did you get, like, butterfly feeling?

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. I've got a man crush on Javier Bardem.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

Can I tell you an amazing Javier Bardem story?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, please, please.

[Joel Edgerton]

So when I met him, I went to Madrid. I was on a road trip with my brother and my good friend Spencer. We stopped in, and Natalie Portman was shooting with Javier, and we knew Natalie from Star Wars. So we go and meet them in a bar. I'm introduced to Javier. At the end of the night, we're leaving this bar, and this girl is leaving the bar, and she's clearly very inebriated. And this man put his arm around his shoulder, And Javier asked the guy, do you know this girl? And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm just walking home, and Javier said, well, with all respect, we're gonna walk with you and make sure that she gets home safe. And so all of us walked with Javier. Cause we're like, this dude is amazing for even having the thought and the inclination to protect this. And the guy was being honest, but Javier just was making sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Double Double check.

[Joel Edgerton]

And we would have walked about a kilometre winding through these streets of Madrid to make sure this girl got home safe. And I remember just thinking, this guy has character. Unbelievable.

[Monica Padman]

I love him.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a great story. And he's already so sexy.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

You sprinkle that on top.

[Monica Padman]

And he's a protector. Oh, my God.

[Joel Edgerton]

There are people like him that I really, really Admire.

[Monica Padman]

But that almost sounds like you admire his character more than you admire him as this flashy actor.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. I remember when I met Sylvester Stallone. You know, you talk about childhood dreams. My favorite actors when I was growing up as a kid were Harrison Ford. Most of the movies were about guys with muscle.

[Dax Shepard]

Absolutely.

[Joel Edgerton]

So Arnold and Sylvester and I remember doing one of those weird roundtable things with a bunch of actors, and I've never seen so many already successful actors get so giggly. When Sylvester Stallone walked in the room, they were all like, oh, everyone was shaking.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

The power of that guy.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. I'm obsessed with muscles, and I don't know how I could have grown up in the 80s.

[Joel Edgerton]

You've got muscles. I just cuddled you on the way in.

[Dax Shepard]

I have more free time now so I can develop my muscles. But, yeah, it all starts with, dude, I saw Conan the Barbarian at a drive in when I was probably 8, and I was like, what the is this? I didn't have those magazines. Never been on tv. I'm like, this is crazy. That's a real person. Yeah, I loved it. Did you love Road Warrior? I mean, you're in Australia. My brother and I were obsessed with Road Warrior.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah, we called it Mad Max. First one was just called Mad Max. Mad Max.

[Dax Shepard]

Road warriors got colorful and over the top. Mad Max is like a straight good movie. Road Warrior is more of a fun comic.

[Joel Edgerton]

Oh, the second one, you mean?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

Mad Max 3.

[Dax Shepard]

There's Mad Max and then there's Road Warrior, and then there's the now ones.

[Joel Edgerton]

Now, have you seen the Tina Turner one? Mad Max 3.

[Dax Shepard]

Beyond the Thunderdome.

[Joel Edgerton]

We don't need another hero. Boom.

[Dax Shepard]

The fact that she worked Thunderdome into a song and it was a hit is almost impossible.

[Joel Edgerton]

Her outfit in that with a chain mail.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. Master Blaster.

[Joel Edgerton]

Blaster.

[Dax Shepard]

The little guy sat on the big guy's shoulder.

[Joel Edgerton]

Something so incredible about re watching that film now, which I saw it again maybe about three months ago. Oh, really? Because I remember thinking, okay, the first one's very austere. Second one just gets crazy with the whole kind of like, what's that great line of Mel's where he's talking about, there's only one man who can drive that truck out here. And you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where there's the whole full on road chase, which is more reminiscent of the new ones.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Joel Edgerton]

But beyond Thunderdome just went kind of crazier. And it was a little kit. And then rewatching it is kind of Extraordinary. There's the whole Boeing 747 that's crashed and the wild children that are kind of living out there. But that film is amazing. George and Baz Luhrmann, for Australian filmmakers, are the two guys. They dream big.

[Dax Shepard]

Enormous. Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. Because most Australian films live in this sort of 2 to 5 million dollars margin. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

There's not the market to fund big spectacles.

[Joel Edgerton]

No. These guys are seeing the world as their canvas. Baz is making Gatsby in Sydney. He made Elvis in the Gold coast, and that's his new playground. So he uses Australian technicians, Australian actors, peppered throughout, but creates these big worlds and does it in Australia. And George, for the most part, does the same thing.

[Dax Shepard]

The Blu Ray of Road Warrior. The second film has a little doc on it, and I don't know if you've watched it, but it's spectacular. You'll remember the huge semi crash at the end. They told the stunt performer who did that crash, you need to prep for surgery before. So this dude had done a full prep for surgery in anticipation of getting airlifted to a hospital.

[Joel Edgerton]

Just an exitazi. So then do the stuff you've seen. The one where the guy clips his ankles. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Brings his legs on the.

[Joel Edgerton]

Clipped his ankles here. Both ankles, but the break happened up here. They broke both femurs after tapping both ankles. The guy that did that did stunts on a short film. When I first started out, I used to short films for the Australian Film, Television and Radio School, where actors from drama school were going get to be in these short films. And the stunt team turned up and it was the guy that had done that stunt.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Joel Edgerton]

His name was Grant, and his two sons had become stuntmen. The week or two before, he'd had a light plane crash with one of his sons in it. It was one of those things where you sit and it's just a propeller above you. And he and his son had had a crash. And so that had happened. His other son had broken his leg doing a abseil from the Harbour Bridge. And so the stunt team turned up. They're all part of the same family. They all had broken bones and they were all trying to drag a crashman. I'm like. And my brother was doubling me, which has doubled me in so many things. But it was just funny watching the stunt team all trying to drag a crash and go, you're already broken. One of the most terrifying things I've ever seen is my brother getting painted up with fire gel to do a full body burn. And the weirdest thing I've seen it three times. And one of them was on a really weird Western that we made in Santa Fe that myself and another guy helped rewrite. It was a very complicated film that fell apart and then. And found its way back up. And one of the rewrites we'd done was that all these guys get burnt in this situation. And my brother then got a job on it. So I realized, like, I'd written this scene.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, God.

[Joel Edgerton]

That now my brother was like, yeah, I'll do that. Yeah, yeah. I'm sitting there watching him getting painted by these people. And stunt guys, for all the craziness you think that they engage in, they're incredibly good physics brain thinkers, a lot of them. In terms of the dynamics, we're only two, and they really care about each other. And the quietness that descended as they were painting him and making sure that it didn't go beyond a certain point. Talking about how long and what the process and who was gonna bring the fire blanket. And I remember just being terrified. I would have felt culpable.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's a good thought process for all of us directors to think about when we're asking people to do stuff like, what if my brother was doing this? Do I have the same opinion about this?

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. I mean, that's a whole interesting conversation about the pursuit of creating life is more important than fiction. Taking care of each other on a set. It's amazing how much people suddenly kick bollock scramble on a set. And we all know the big stories that have made the headlines about people losing their lives or becoming brain damaged. And I had a cinematographer recently in Chicago, and there's this big scream and the wind was kicking up, and he just kind of kicked off in this really assertive way and said, we don't need to be doing this. And everyone first was like, why is this guy getting all curmudgeonless? And then all of a sudden you realise, I think he'd been involved in a situation before where someone had got hurt. And everyone then was like, good for you. Yeah, no one needs to have something for you.

[Dax Shepard]

It's very Javier Bardem.

[Monica Padman]

What do we think it is about? Men and women, but we gotta be realistic. Mainly men being very attracted to stunts.

[Dax Shepard]

It's rites of passage.

[Joel Edgerton]

I'm fascinated by this. And when my blood boils, when I see red, you know, those sort of cliche expressions. But my inclination is to be very peaceful. And I like to think I could handle myself in a fight, but I feel the inclination sometimes. Always shy away from it. But I'm really interested in the world we live in now where there's sort of almost this line we don't cross. We're all part of society. We like to be civilized. And we know that to step over that line means we do something that's uncivilized. But it's crazy watching what I call, like, middle class rage in their car. Yeah, we live these very safe lives. So fight or flight gets triggered by the most benign things. Being late to a meeting or somebody cutting you off in the traffic road. Rage is a big thing. And indignation of what happens with humans lining up to do things at a fun park or in a shop. Suddenly they're all kicking off, and the trigger is loaded up by compression of financial situation, marital, whatever's loading the bow. And then someone hits the hair trigger and it kicks off. And it's like this primal rage that exists, particularly in a lot of men who don't know how to manage it. And it's almost like a blindness comes over them with this sort of feeling. I'm fascinated by it. I love thinking about. But it's a weird thing.

[Dax Shepard]

I think we have tons of vestigial stuff that we have no application for anymore. We were wired to overeat because food was scarce. We were wired to do a lot of stuff that we no longer do. And that's why sports is a thing. That's why, like, all these different activities we have are our ways of engaging in that wiring in a safe, socially acceptable way. But that's what's clearly driving that. You can imagine a species that doesn't even like sports. Like, if they didn't have any of that.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, there's a lot of ways to look at sports. Sports is also community, which we know we need as social animals, too. There's so many things, but, like, a car jumping another car is so specific. And all of you guys love it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, because it's scary.

[Monica Padman]

Just don't get it.

[Joel Edgerton]

I'm gonna say something relatively controversial. Well, not really. I mean, I see myself as a fairly undoed kind of dude. Never wanted to drive cars fast.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Joel Edgerton]

I don't have a particular sport on fussing. I love all sport. I love watching it. But I'm not obsessing over a particular team. There's a few dude boxes I don't feel like I tick and don't really need to tick.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

There's some that I do. I actually haven't taken. I don't know if there's a dude Test.

[Dax Shepard]

I have it. I'll give. See on your way out when I.

[Joel Edgerton]

Give you this shirt.

[Monica Padman]

Before you came in, Dax said, oh, Joel is so masculine.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I was like, really? And it's just interesting to see, like, immediately that we are starting to talk about some things that are masculine.

[Joel Edgerton]

But what is masculinity? Is a really good question. My idea of masculinity used to be Chuck Norris, Arnold Schwarzenegger. My movie diet was all about dudes that could break your limbs and kick you in the face, you know, roundhouse kick you and all that. But the idea of sensitivity mixed within masculinity and talking about the kinds of performances I like from men. And Russell Crowe is a good example. He's such a kind of alpha male. He's such a brute force. And yet there's a tenderness to be able to watch the child inside the man. Cause I think as bearded as we can all get as masculine was still a child, you know?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you watch Chimp Empire?

[Joel Edgerton]

No, I haven't. No.

[Dax Shepard]

It's great. But yes, you're nailing the thing that made that not just a fun rubber necky. Look at chimps warring was they follow the alpha male a ton and you come to realize, like, the alpha male is not allowed to groom anyone. He only gets groomed.

[Joel Edgerton]

He's not allowed to get the hors d' oeuvres off each other's heads.

[Dax Shepard]

No, it's just how they're signaling status. So he only gets groomed and he has to be fierce at all times. There's two males that are trying to actively kill him. And then they have these troop on troop wars three times in this movie. And he's got to be first one in and they're outnumbered, and that's his role. And then the weird thing that alpha male chimps will do is they'll take on orphans. They'll be an orphan baby and no one will claim it. It. And this alpha male will claim it. And he spends his whole time just grooming and being so kind to this thing. And I was like, that's the heartbreak of this role is like he wants to groom and be emotional and be tender and nurture, and his role just doesn't allow for it.

[Joel Edgerton]

I think that's the deficit of old school masculinity, is tenderness. And this is why I think masculinity continues on through generations of being stoic and nonverbal and inexpressive is because you take your cues from. From the person above you. The moment that breaks, the moment you feel the tenderness from a male figure in your life. I think it sets better cues. And I'm fascinated now that I've got two kids and they're twins and one's a girl and one's a boy. And not to make it about men in particular, but how do you groom your children for the world? I mean, how do you build them up to be better people in the world?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, would you agree I was trying to equip them for the real world and build in the aspirational version of what we should become. It's like you can't turn them out into the world. Completely naive. There's some reality you're working within and you're also trying to push it forward. But I don't think it's like black or white. It's like you're trying to thread this needle of, I want them to be better than me. And also, I don't want them to get hurt their whole life.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. My son said to me the other day, this kid had said, you're not a very good spider man. He goes, I'm gonna web him. So he's got beef with another four year, so I'm gonna web him. I said, hold on, Jack. First of all, why don't you tell him how you feel about the fact that he discredited your validity as Spider Man? Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, try that.

[Joel Edgerton]

And then if he regrets it, I've told him the definition, the word regret, and then give him a chance. If he still says he's not a very good spider man, then consider webbing him. And he goes, yeah, I'm gonna web his legs, his body and his eyeballs.

[Monica Padman]

His eyeballs.

[Joel Edgerton]

And then my daughter just started cackling. He's got his back. So if you see a webbed kid around la, you, you'll know that he.

[Dax Shepard]

Did not heed your advice. But to the masculinity thing. Your older brother, Nash, a year and a half older than you.

[Joel Edgerton]

And a half, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a stunty. Was he a fucking stud? Did you idolize him? What was your guys's dynamic as kids?

[Joel Edgerton]

We were kind of mild studs growing up together. We weren't full studs, you know. Again, we weren't ticking all those boxes. But he was a daredevil in the true sense before he plugged into the idea that he could become a stuntman. He was literally doing things for free to entertain people. Like, do you dare me to try and jump that fence? That's definitely gonna trip me over and make me lose a Lot of skin off my face, you know, like, yeah, Nash, we dare you. He would put himself up to do these things.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

He jumped out of a moving train to not be late for a basketball game and then wasn't allowed to play. Cause he was losing so much blood. When he rides on the court, he had about 12 abrasions. And it was right around the time that they had decided that you can't play sport while you bleed, while you're actively bleeding. He literally jumped out of a train that was moving about 60 kilometres an hour.

[Dax Shepard]

And did you feel inclined to match him?

[Joel Edgerton]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Or was he just so wild? That was like, that's his lane.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. He one time also got out of a driving car just to show that he could run alongside it while the car was also driving.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, sure.

[Joel Edgerton]

Which didn't end well. He sort of taught me to abseil and rock climb and things. As he started getting into the world of stuff, stunts, he was fearless, you know, and he's able to flick that switch of going right. I know my human brain is telling me this is very dangerous, but the camera's rolling and there's a lot of pressure on me and everyone's watching, so I better just do it. But do it safely.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. We are supported by Alexa Plus. All right, let me tell you about something I'm genuinely excited to talk about. The all new Alexa Plus. Look, we're all juggling a million things these days and this thing is designed to actually make your life easier. It's like having a conversation with someone who really gets what you need. Picture this, you're planning a night out and Instead of opening 12 different apps, you just have one conversation with Alexa. And it handles everything. Dinner reservations, entertainment, the works. It learns your style and puts thousands of services at your fingertips. What I love about this concept is how natural it feels. You're not barking commands, you're just talking. And it works across your compatible dev as Echo, Fire TV and more. It's your all new smart, proactive AI assistant. And honestly, the idea of having AI that actually anticipates what you need, that sounds pretty amazing to me. Check it [e-mail] newalexa we are supported by Allstate. You know what's smart? Checking Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds on car insurance. You know what's not smart? Not checking your phone's volume before blasting your morning pump up playlist in the office break room. Or not checking that your laptop camera's off before joining the meeting in your robe or something. I'm a little too familiar with not checking your grocery list before heading to the store and realizing you bought everything except what you needed. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, condition and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. We are supported by Quince. So I'm standing in my closet the other day and I realize I'm reaching for the same three things over and over again. And they're all coming from quints. Which got me thinking, when did I become that guy who actually cares about where his clothes come from? I'll tell you when. When I discovered quints.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. I was at a happy hour a couple days ago with a very cool woman named Margo. Very chic. And I was like, ooh, I love your pants. I love your sweater. And she's said, quint.

[Dax Shepard]

Boom.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, I should have.

[Dax Shepard]

Known, should have known. Turns out Quint cracked the code on something I didn't even know was broken. They partner directly with these ethical factories, cut out the middlemen. So you get the same Mongolian cashmere that cost 200 bucks elsewhere. 450, same quality, none of the markup. Perfect timing, too, because holiday shopping is coming. And I actually have good answers for once. Not just clothes either. They've got home stuff, travel gear, all. All of it, Give and get. Timeless holiday staples that last this season with quints. Go to quints.comdax for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N c e.comdax free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.comdax we are supported by ServiceNow. You know what I love? Not having to do boring, repetitive stuff. I want to focus on the interesting conversations, the creative work, the things that really matter to me. And apparently that's exactly what ServiceNow does for entire organizations. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. Here's the thing. ServiceNow has basically become the operating system of AI. Instead of Frankensteining together different tools, ServiceNow unifies people, data, workflows and AI connecting every corner of your business. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85% of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform.

[Monica Padman]

Platform.

[Dax Shepard]

We're talking HR, customer service, every department you can think of. And here's what's cool. They got Idris Elba as their brand ambassador. I mean, come on, if you're gonna have someone represent your company, might as well be the guy who's basically the CEO everyone wants to be, right? With AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters Most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for [e-mail] Calm.

[Joel Edgerton]

And he was a brilliant physicist. Actually, he was on his way to doing electrical engineering at university and really smokescreened my way into drama school by saying, hey, mom and dad, I'm going to be a stuntman. And they were like, what? And then meanwhile, I just slipped into drama school without any sort of concern at all.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

He developed land. Is that what he did?

[Joel Edgerton]

My dad still is a property developer. At the time we grew up, my dad was starting a law. He looked like a hippie in a suit. He had really long hair and a really shaggy mustache. And he started a law firm in a town 20 minutes from where we live.

[Dax Shepard]

Was he a lawyer?

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. He's a property developer, but he had a law degree.

[Joel Edgerton]

He was a lawyer. And then he actually retired at the age of 40 from his law firm. Kept topping up his law degree each year. I think he still does it and he still can practice law, but he realized he was just doing contracts for everybody else. And it's like, why not just do the contract law for myself and make more money being a property developer?

[Dax Shepard]

You said once in an interview that you wanted his attention.

[Joel Edgerton]

Still do, and I think I still will. Lo and behold, after he's gone.

[Dax Shepard]

Was he unavailable? Was he busy?

[Joel Edgerton]

He was busy.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Or was it hard for him to express that? Kind of.

[Joel Edgerton]

My father is incredibly astute and sentimental and has a very beautiful softness to him and a massive heart. He can appear quite stoic. He can also be very funny. And he was a real performer when it came to it. He always had a microphone in his hand. If people wanted my father to make a speech about things. Gifted the gab, if you could call it that, was incredible. He's just a real raconteur. And I think he's the one. Even though he wasn't in the profession of storytelling, was the reason my brother and I maybe chip off that block as a way of kind of. My dad was a performer.

[Dax Shepard]

Does he get an enormous bang out of watching you guys perform for a long time?

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. And look, as sometimes the difference between mums and dads. An essay of words from my mum. The same Thing can be communicated with just the touch of my shoulder from my dad. I have to say occasionally I feel guilty about the fact that the way I view these relationships is like, I've got my mum, she's my biggest fan. And it's just the child in me because when I was a kid I was always around my mum and my brother. But my dad was trying to, to make a life for the family. And as a kid you don't understand economics. So I was like, gotta be good at sport. Cause he'll turn up at sporting events. Turns out I wasn't that good at sport. I was always very middling at everything. If I did a play, he would come. Because you can't not come to your kids play.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you really gotta show up for those.

[Joel Edgerton]

That sort of became the start of it for me. I do feel this weird and unnecessary need to feel the pride of my dad, even though I have it in spades. It's like an engine that will constantly refuel itself no matter what I say to it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, your brother maybe too. Maybe that's part of the daredevil element. Like if I'm doing these crazy things, he's gonna have to look.

[Joel Edgerton]

It's interesting how two siblings can grow up with the same series of events with just one year's difference and interpret things very differently. I'm always fascinated by that. And I think my brother's engine is sometimes defiance, whereas mine might be the craving of like, look at me, look what I can do.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, approve.

[Joel Edgerton]

My brothers was always, how could I ruffle his father feathers a little bit? And I don't think he's actively thinking that way. It's all those subconscious stuff. But my brother and my father are so similar in many ways that they clash. I remember some really drag out arguments on family holidays. I remember my brother and I making some late night stupid music video when we were late teenagers. We got a hold of the video camera. We're doing Bohemian Rhapsody or something like this and dressing up and pretending to play guitars on baseball bats and stuff. And my dad came down in his bathrobe. He's like, you know your grandmother's sleeping under there. He just started yelling us and my brother just turned the volume down and the video camera's still playing. My dad's in the background yelling at him. And then as dad's yelling at him, Nash turns to the camera and keeps mouthing the words of the song. And then dad leaves. My brother couldn't help but say something which brings him back. He liked Antagonizing a little bit. And not to say anything bad about my bro. I just think that he's one of those people who likes to. Like you said, do you dare me to do this? I think there's something beautiful about my brother that goes, if you think I can't do something, I'm going to show you that I can do it. And he taught himself everything. How to be a filmmaker, how to edit, how to direct. No school.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm curious when this would have happened, because you and Bateman worked together on Smoking Aces. Did you guys become friends then?

[Joel Edgerton]

We didn't really. And not because I love Jason Bateman, but we didn't really work on the same stuff. The Gift. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Must have been around the time you guys were doing the gif. You wrote it and you were directing it and Bateman was in it. It had to have been him that showed me this short that your brother made, if I'm remembering this correctly. It's like all set in a car.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And there's like this crazy lock off overlap shot, which is, like, so fucking startling.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And it was kind of innovative at the time. I saw it and Bateman's like, joel's brother made this. And I was like, oh, the brother's fucking clever as hell.

[Joel Edgerton]

My brother's the reason I became a filmmaker. I would write an act. He was a stunt guy, and then he became an editor and a director. We call him the film Bully. As in, like, if you came to him and said, I've got this idea for a movie, he would just keep bullying you until you made it. He'd encourage you, go, stop talking about it. Just set a date. Start doing it. Rather than discourage me from stepping on his turf, he was like, you gotta go do it. He can do the most extraordinary things with no money because we never had money. There's a great short film he made called Lucky, where he wakes up in the trunk of a car, breaks his way out of the trunk of the car and realizes no one is driving the car. And the car's going about 100 km an hour down a desert road, and he has to break into the car to stop the car.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Joel Edgerton]

It's a two and a half minute short film. So here's what happened on the day they realized he wanted a shot 360 degrees around the car to show that no one was driving it. Now, nowadays, you could just go and get a Waymo, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

They couldn't work out how to get the stunt guy hidden in the car. They tried him lying on the ground. They tried him just sort of lying there with a radio. And eventually Nash goes cut the car seat out, rip the foam off it, and build the car seat around Tony the stunk guy. And you watch that film now, and there's an entire moving shot around the entire car. And you're like, no one's driving it. While Nash is on roof trying to climb his way in. And it was just Tony with two eye holes in the car like this. If you did that properly by scrubbing it out in post, that would have cost thousands and thousands of dollars. Nash is that guy. He's a problem solver, he's an analyst. And he has what I think Spielberg has, which is a balanced left and right brain. Creative brain. Business brain. Creative brain. Science brain.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. I want to touch on your career a couple places. One is, how do we go from TV in Australia? And you won for that show Sacred Life of Us. Yeah. You won an A CTA award. You were recognized, obviously. How do you go from there to Star Wars?

[Joel Edgerton]

That's pure luck. I see career as sort of a combination of hard work, whatever you can provide on a talent level, plus some occasional bumping into good. George Lucas came down to Sydney and he wanted to make two of his films there. And the unions are basically like, well, you gotta use some Australian actors. I just happen to have also the luck of. You could imagine the physiognomy or the right sort of resemblance to a young Phil Brown who played Uncle Owen. And I got the job. That was the thing that allowed me to come to LA for the first time.

[Dax Shepard]

Now what was your demeanor like? Like, because you do that Star wars, and then three years later, I guess you come into another one with George. And I guess I forgot he directed those two immediate ones. After the first three, what was your relationship with him on the first one versus the second one? Had you come in with more confidence.

[Joel Edgerton]

Episode three, I'm in for like a minute. And I was part of a reshoot section. Cause I had been off shooting King Arthur in Ireland. The weirdest thing is I got to go to Skywalker Ranch, stayed in the Kurosawa room, and I shot one day, and there was sort of a conveyor belt of pickup shots being done. So I'm in a green room not much bigger than this. Chewbacca and his son are in there.

[Dax Shepard]

Who?

[Joel Edgerton]

Chewbacca, Chewbacca, Chewbacca.

[Dax Shepard]

Chewbacca and his son.

[Joel Edgerton]

They're about to go in and do their pickup. So I walk in this room and there's Chewbacca and his son just sitting there waiting for their shot. And then I was in there.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

But on the first one, I was so nervous. I had the most incredible time. This weird moment where we're in Tunisia and George was in his tent about 400 yards away. Cause they're doing a big wide shot and they were down low in the uncloan kind of underground house. And I was coming out to meet Anakin and I had been working on the droids and I had a moisture farmer's screwdriver. I was like, oh, just to bring it into the real world, I should just maybe have a rag that I'm wiping my hands before I shake his hand. I hadn't done many movies. I was like, I probably should ask George, if that's okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

So I asked an ad. I said, oh, could I speak to George? And I went, yeah, Joel wants to speak to George. And then I realized he was going to have to walk 400 yards or like 200 yards. So I was like, I better go meet him up there. Tried to get half way fumbled. My words got, you know, I was thinking. And the rag and you know, what are you thinking? He just goes, sure. And he walked away. Helped him get his steps in though.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, but in rapid order. You start your career in kind of a unique way. And I don't want to say start you've been working for a while, but in movies you're in with pretty heavy hitters right away. Clive's a animal, right?

[Joel Edgerton]

Clive Owen.

[Dax Shepard]

Clive Owen, yeah. How are you doing around that?

[Joel Edgerton]

For the most part, I've been like, Scotty Pippen, played support to some incredible actors and it felt like a very safe place to be.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you think being a little brother helps in that situation?

[Joel Edgerton]

I'd never thought about it, but it's pretty extraordinary for you to say that, because I think it does.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You know how to find your moment to shine, but to service this older creature in your orbit.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. And also the pleasure of learning from getting a front row seat with someone that you really look up to and knowing, to use the analogy of tennis, that your game gets better if you play with someone better than you or more experienced than you. So I've always had this pleasure of working alongside really interesting people and knowing that the whole thing wasn't sitting on my shoulders and had a pretty fun time doing it because oftentimes also there's supporting characters. I love some of my characters when I Look back, I love working on Black Mass. I love working in Loving. I loved working on Gatsby.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, those were the ones I was going to list is like you got Johnny Depp and Leonardo DiCaprio all within the first like six movies.

[Joel Edgerton]

Know you.

[Dax Shepard]

You do. And Clive, these are like some fucking heavyweight champs.

[Joel Edgerton]

Weirdly, I felt like I was going to go into those experiences and be so riddled with anxiety. You know, I get anxiety about other stuff, but weirdly, when I work, it's like that part of my brain turns off. I just really embrace the experience rather than going, oh, no, they're going to think I'm really terrible. That hum is always going on. But between action and cut, I don't feel any anxiety at all. It reminds me when I work on movies sometimes nowadays, sometimes bring someone who's there for the day or a background artist to go just deliver this drink to the table. And you see their handshake.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right.

[Joel Edgerton]

This is a stressful theme.

[Mel Robbins]

It is.

[Dax Shepard]

The less you have to do, the harder it is, I think. Yes. I mean, which is counterintuitive.

[Joel Edgerton]

Those actors that are like Navy seals who just drop in for the mission of a couple of days, nail the tone and then drop the mic and say goodbye. I have so much admiration for them.

[Dax Shepard]

You do Warrior with Tom Hardy. Yeah. This is a little bit pre Tom Hardy before we all know, kind of how extraordinary. Yeah. Really kind of revelatory.

[Joel Edgerton]

Before I worked with Tom, one of the only things I'd seen him in was Bronson.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. What a fucking movie.

[Joel Edgerton]

I was like, who is this dude? He's fucking fantastic.

[Dax Shepard]

Very Chopper esque. Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

But in its own way for sure.

[Dax Shepard]

But it's weird. That genre somehow has given rise to a few of our really powerful Eric Bana and that. You're like, okay, who's this guy?

[Joel Edgerton]

I know, man. That performance is extraordinary. I just did a movie in Australia where I really tuned things up to 11, I call it. I played a prisoner with a full set of steel teeth. Yes. You know, it's like the opposite of what goes on in this movie. Train Dreams. One of the joys of acting is being able to go, all right, what is the canvas we're painting here? And how bright a color do I need to make myself?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

How do I live in this world in the right way? But Bronson and Chopper are these sort of larger than life characters. It's wonderful to watch actors do that and not see the artifice. Chopper really disappeared. I mean, Eric really disappeared into that role. Tom in it's like over the top.

[Dax Shepard]

And subtle at the same time, which is kind of impossible.

[Joel Edgerton]

I call it the Nicholas Cage and certain performances of his where he goes so big, but it comes from a place of honesty.

[Dax Shepard]

He's somehow grounded in everywhere he's at. He's an ardent student, but that's why.

[Monica Padman]

It'S grounded in reality, because it is who he is.

[Dax Shepard]

It's authentic to him.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it is who he is. That.

[Joel Edgerton]

That level rising, Arizona and all. It's like incredible performances. But, yeah, look, Warrior was an extraordinary experience. It was definitely also a reminder to myself not to doubt myself in terms of the approach. Something I was like, I'm 34, I'm too old for this shit.

[Dax Shepard]

How did you get in shape for that? Was it crazy?

[Joel Edgerton]

We trained for three months in a fight gym. We had to be there at seven in the morning or we'd get in trouble. I was never late, so I don't know what in trouble meant.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, in trouble from Gavin or someone.

[Joel Edgerton]

Else from the whole fight crew.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, sure, sure. Okay. Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

And then we'd go and eat lunch all together and then come back and lift weights in the afternoon. And that went on for three months.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you love that period?

[Joel Edgerton]

I loved it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That kind of discipline feels very good, doesn't it?

[Joel Edgerton]

And it felt like. It reminded me that some jobs you can fake and some jobs you can't. And it's really good to try and find the 10,000 hours of familiarity so that you can concentrate on the relationships within the film rather than turning up on the day going, also like, oh, how do I punch a person? While also looking sad. That was such an extraordinary experience. Gavin o', Connor, the director, taught me a really valuable role as a director, and I'm always observing directors when I'm working, is that he treated every single scene, even the most interstitial scene, as the most important scene in the movie. And I remember thinking, oh, that's really interesting, because actors often we go, okay, these four scenes are the big ones.

[Dax Shepard]

Even for your fight scenes, you're like, okay, I gotta be on my diet for those four days leading up to that scene. Like, a lot of it has to be mapped out.

[Joel Edgerton]

There's the same with Frank Grillo and I just before or I'm about to fight for the first time in the big tournament. And it was written as one eighth of a page. Just the guy coming in, going, five minutes, guys. And Gavin just sent the whole crew away and he goes, all right, let's make this scene worthy of being in the movie and talked about it. And I was like, oh, this is cool. This guy's seeing every single frame as important as every other frame.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I like that. I want to talk about Train Dreams. So I watched it last night. I have to watch a lot of stuff because we have a lot of actors. It's been a minute since a movie got me this much. I watched it, I loved it, and then I just have not stopped thinking about it. And then I came in and told my wife the whole plot. And I just have been ruminating on so many things about it. And then as I'm researching, I'm realizing that the director, this Clint Bentley, had co written Sing Sing, which was another movie that had this kind of similar beauty to it.

[Joel Edgerton]

That movie is kind of extraordinary and unorthodox in so many ways. How patient it is.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So let's set it up. Well, the first year we're given is 1917, but you're at that point probably 30 years old. But your character showed up in a town as an orphan and just kind of stumbled along until he found employment in logging and in bridge erection working for the railroad. And it's just a very simple, quiet, slow existence.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah, it's a celebration, I think, of an ordinary very life.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. In the most heartbreaking and tragic and impactful way. I cried several times during it. You're outside in these forests. Were you shooting in Idaho?

[Joel Edgerton]

We were shooting outside of Spokane, right near the border of Idaho.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's just beautiful. There's enormous trees. And the severity of life then is so present. Right. The fact that you guys are logging, you're cutting down these enormous trees with the fucking saw that is like this. And the notion that you're doing that 12 hours a day in living a. Yeah. Is so brutal.

[Joel Edgerton]

It was an incredible environment to shoot in. And weirdly, you look at this film, it's a period film and it's based on Denis Johnson's novella of the same name, Train Dreams. You've got these themes or these sort of incidences in it that feel so relevant to today. It's this sort of idea that the world is moving too fast for these people. Technology is these people harvesting the earth for these sort of trees, not knowing what the outcome of that is. Getting to be the kind of misuse and mistreatment of immigrant workers being sort of torn away or kind of thrown off bridges for very little reason.

[Dax Shepard]

The expendability of all of you.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Present.

[Joel Edgerton]

But also this idea, I think, which is interesting to me, it's like, I'm a husband and I'm in love and I have two little kids. And being a dad is the most epic thing that ever happened to me so far in my life. And the ideas within the film of some of the darker moments of losing the people that you care most about, these things are so Shakespearean in our own lives, and yet I don't know that we often look at our own lives and realize how big they are, how full they can be, and how many peaks and troughs exist within them. Because we're wired to watch movies and go. We're going to watch movies about astronauts and generals, but to go to the cinema and see a reflection, even though it's about a logger, I know what that feels like. And in this film is, you're a dad, too. This is my greatest fear, of course. And so when. And I told my wife, who doesn't love to go to places like Spokane with the whole family when her work swells around places like New York and London. But she gets. When I care about something, and I tried to tell her the story of what happens in the movie, and I get. I'm gonna get it now. When I get to the point about stuff that happens to my character, I couldn't keep talking. And she's like, all right, I guess we're going to Spokane.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

It's crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

You meet Felicity Jones.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

What's her character's name? Okay. Glattus. You have a simple life. In fact, again, you're so masculine and rugged in it. And I believe you have been working in this logging industry. You pull that off so believably in the baked in architecture I'm expecting is like, this man who's so strong and capable, will eventually stand up to somebody and beat the. Out of somebody and be heroic in some moment. And I love that. No, that's not really life. You observe a lot of stuff that you wish you kind of could prevent. And you don't have the gumption or whatever it is. You just kind of witness a lot of sadness and heartache and that you don't rise to any occasion. You just kind of go, wow. Okay. That's the world. I guess this is the reality of planet Earth. That guy got thrown off a bridge. Okay.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. Now I feel guilty.

[Dax Shepard]

But this love story is captured so beautifully between you and Gladys. And then you have this little girl, and she's just heartbreaking. That little kid was so good.

[Joel Edgerton]

Okay, what was she, three? She's like two and a half. They were Twins, you know, when you go on the movie sets.

[Dax Shepard]

Because they can only work for a Mary Kate Nashley. Yeah. They might be future designers of great clothing.

[Joel Edgerton]

They might have an empire coming.

[Dax Shepard]

You should invest in them now, like seed money, contact.

[Monica Padman]

That's right.

[Joel Edgerton]

We had twins. And one was disinterested in everything, and the other was very playful. So Clint would be like, which one do we get for which scene? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That's fun.

[Monica Padman]

My best friend works at Netflix. She's on the Train Dreams campaign. And she fought so hard for it. She saw it at Sundance, she came back, she was like, this movie is so unbelievably good. It's the best movie I've seen in a long time. And she fought to be on it. And she helped create the train trailer and stuff. But she's been talking about it ever since. She is such a fan.

[Joel Edgerton]

It breaks people open in a good way in the sense that I think movies are a really great place to get some emotion out of yourself by reflecting things in someone else's life. But also, I think it's also good to be reminded of people that you've lost or joys that you've experienced in life. And Robert's whole life, it's not a Western that's about revenge or retribution distribution. It's about the world punching him in the stomach and him finding a way of getting back up and the kindness of strangers that help rebuild us like the forest regrowing after a fire. And I find it very moving and very personal. And for all of the Gatsbys and black masses I've ever been involved in, where I think my whole pursuit has been, how can I make people believe that I'm somebody I'm not? And I've always been terrified about being myself on screen.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I was gonna also add, you have almost no dialogue in this movie.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And we become so reliant on expressing how we feel through words that really, it's gonna have to be in your eyes. Was that scary at all, or did you look forward to that?

[Joel Edgerton]

I sort of look forward to it. I'd been through the experience of making this movie with Ruth Naga that Jeff Nichols had directed called Loving. And my character in that It's Funny was a real life character, Richard Loving. And he barely said a word. I mean, he was interviewed numerous times. His wife would do the. He was so inarticulate. Jeff. In the first week. I always go up to a director in the first couple of days and go, look, do not be afraid. To tell me where I'm steering this thing wrong. I have no ego. Just help me out here. And Jeff's like, I have one note for you. I want to understand you less.

[Dax Shepard]

Less.

[Joel Edgerton]

He gave me very few words to say, which was in sitting with who Richard Loving was. And I felt like that sort of set the table for me for trained dreams of trusting that. That if you think the right things and so much of what Robert experiences. I'm not a logger, obviously, but I fret about how to marry life and work. I am a man that's in love. I am a person that cares more about my kids than anything else in the world. So if you think those things, they'll be there for the camera. And the challenge for me was that Robert is less expressive than me. So making sure. Sure that with the hardest stuff in the film, I just knew how to keep a lid on it. Because normally when I go to work, I'm like, geez, I hope I can do this scene. You know, particularly those ones you worry about, the emotional things. You go, can I do this today? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And isn't it funny? As soon as you give yourself the fear that I might have too much emotion and the emotions, like, overly available. It's such a mind trick.

[Joel Edgerton]

I think it was David Mamet who sort of has lots of wonderful things to say about his opinions on actors. Whether you agree with him or not, some of them are really wonderful. He has this wonderful thing where he talks about actors when they have to cry on screen is like, the problem with actors when they cry on screen is that their ego gets so excited when they get there that they're sort of clicking their heels or patting themselves on the back.

[Dax Shepard]

They're almost smiling while they're crying.

[Joel Edgerton]

So they're trying to cry too much. And then while they're celebrating themselves, it's the opposite of the feeling they should be having. So this oscillating, like, I'm crying, you know, I shouldn't be happy about it.

[Dax Shepard]

I did it.

[Joel Edgerton]

I kind of felt like this was a good chance to do for me what I've often admired in some actors, which is watching that, I feel like I know you. The only way you can really do that in my mind is go, do you really connect with it? How well connected can you be to the material? And then just sort of open your chest up in some way. There's a moment in the film when my character expresses some first kind of showing a real grief about something bad that's happened. And the first thing he Says afterwards is, I'm sorry. I don't know what came over me. And that really typifies to me a lot of men that I've known in my life are very stoic, that if they get upset, they would leave the room. Room lest anybody saw them.

[Dax Shepard]

It also captures, and this is oddly, a very big ding, ding, ding to how we started this conversation, which is they capture really well the awkwardness between men. Men are very awkward around each other if they don't come with a pair or they don't feel bolstered by something. You put eight strangers in the woods and it's like none of them want to talk. And whoever does talks gets kind of blasted. And if they talk, they're crazy. All that stuff feels very authentic. And I remember a lot of those situations.

[Joel Edgerton]

That's really interesting that you say that. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, you would have put in that forest together. They would have known everything about each other and they would have been, like, great friends. But you put these men in this situation, they're just like. They don't know what the to do. Yeah. It's like the intimacy is so scary.

[Joel Edgerton]

I was saying one of my buddies recently, I said, it's an interesting. Men don't get together and brush each other's hair.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, Right.

[Monica Padman]

You guys are missing out. It feels so good.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah, but we're scared of intimacy with each other. There's no world where apart from maybe my brother or something. Like, the buddy comes around to stay the night. Then I'm like, n one of us is sleeping on the floor. That was a kings bit, you know, not brushing each other's hair. And it's fear of intimacy.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, specifically, it's a fear of being called gay from when we were younger. I don't know how it was in Australia, but in Detroit, you lived all day in fear of who was going to call you gay.

[Joel Edgerton]

You just reminded me of crazy. I was at Bondi Beach. A really good friend. Damien and I were at the north end of Bondi Beach. In summer. It's packed. We're near this boat ramp. He's got a bad spine, and every now and then he's like, can you crack my back? But he's wearing this really tight Speedo, and he's a very fit, sort of tanned, Italian, Australian guy. And I was like, there's a lot of people around here. I was like, yeah, all right. I can only get a bang over myself. You know what I mean? I can crack your back fine. And so I wrap my arms around him and he's all oiled up with that tropical oil, which makes it hard. So I grab him chicken and I finally get a purchase on his elbow and I lift him up and I hear crack, crack, crack. And it's like, great. And I drop him down. And then I look to my left and there's a row of about 20 teenagers just sitting there with their arms crossed, staring at us. Weirdly felt embarrassed for myself. And I'm like, should I feel embarrassed? Damian's back.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm helping my buddy be more athletic.

[Joel Edgerton]

I'm an unqualified chiropractor.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's just in there. It's innate. And yeah, it's.

[Dax Shepard]

Cause it happens to you. You get called these names non stop when you're a little kid.

[Joel Edgerton]

But also, who cares?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, I do sleep with my best friend in the same bed.

[Joel Edgerton]

You do Brush your hair.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yes, he brushed your hair today, dude.

[Dax Shepard]

We've snuggled when we were younger. We're both straight, didn't have dads around. We're like, yeah, I need some male affection. Let's go for it. But I think that was very fucking unique.

[Monica Padman]

Where I'm from, you probably weren't telling people no.

[Dax Shepard]

We didn't go to school and be like, oh, we had the best. We watched Raised Arizona. We kind snuggling. My mom asked me on the side, like, you know, if you guys are gay, you can tell me. Like, even my mom had to say, this is welcome. But if she walked in, you and Cali were brushing each other's hair. It wouldn't even cross her mind you're lesbians.

[Monica Padman]

No. No, it would not. Do you watch couples therapy? Have you ever watched that show? Oh, it's a fantastic show.

[Dax Shepard]

Incredible. It's a reality show.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but with a real therapist who's amazing.

[Joel Edgerton]

And real people put themselves on the slab. They don't have that pixelated face and the FBI voice.

[Monica Padman]

No, they're there, they're there. And there was a. This one couple and this one man who had this huge secret. He was carrying this huge secret the whole season. He, like, wouldn't share it. Wouldn't share it. Finally, he shares that in college, his friends saw him looking at male porn Run. And it was like this incident was chipping away at his soul, like it.

[Joel Edgerton]

Had grown into a green moss inside of him or something.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. And I'm like, that's the secret. For me as a woman, that's crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

But it's an immediate ejection. It's an ostracizing from all males in your world, you're like a man without a country.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It made me feel very, very compassionate and sad for men. I'm like, that one thing has caused this man to go on this trajectory.

[Joel Edgerton]

Has that kind of pressure put on yourself?

[Monica Padman]

Yes. It's so unfair.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I hope it's lessening. It feels like it is, but I feel like I came up in peak.

[Joel Edgerton]

It also depends. Like, you got the map of the world behind you. I'm sure you could just point anywhere and go safe. Unsafe. Like as in safe to kind of be openly whoever you want to be, whatever that is, or not fear certain things. I know that we like to think in LA and New York and Sydney, you could be whoever you are and your choices, or the color of your skin is fine, or your gender preferences are fine, or your personal preference pronouns are fine. Literally 10 miles down the road, you'd be keeping a secret. I went to. When I was making this film, Boy Raised, which is about gay conversion therapy. I went to Arkansas with my assistant David, who is. He's no longer my assistant. Now he's a director in his own right and doing incredibly well. But David's gay. He and his husband just made a movie together. But David turned up at the hotel in the morning. We're about to go to church. To go to this church in Arkansas, 200 km down the road from the harbour of the KKK. He said to me, do I look too gay? Should I change my clothes?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

And I started going, yeah, maybe. And I was like, you know what? Fuck it. No. But he was afraid walking into the church.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

That there were people carrying guns. It was an overblown fear, but it also was tethered to something real. So stepping into that zone after a few hours flight from la, where life is totally free and fine. And then cut to whatever years later after that movie, when all rights and freedoms and general acceptance of things, it becomes okay to march all progress backwards. Almost to the point where we feel like we should re release Boy Arise. Or do a new card of the film or get all the old footage that we never put in the film and release it in some way because things have gotten worse since then.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. This show is sponsored by Better Help. So many of us are really impacted by the colder seasons when it gets dark so much earlier and the days feel shorter than ever.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, me, Me. I'm the one. I feel horrible. When it. Seasonal affective Disorder.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, you do. Take a. I take a hit.

[Monica Padman]

I do.

[Dax Shepard]

When it gets dark. You know how it goes. Life gets busy. But that's exactly why shorter days don't have to be so dismal. It's time to reach out and check in with those you care about and to remind ourselves that we're not alone. And you know what? Every time I finally do, I think, why didn't I do this sooner? Which is exactly what people say about starting therapy. Better Help therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US Just fill out a short questionnaire that'll help identify your needs and preferences. Preferences and they'll match you with a therapist. Don't worry, though. If you aren't happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored Rex this month, don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Armchairs get 10% off their first [e-mail] Dax that's BetterHelp. H E L P.com Dax Dax A diamond is Forever Here on the show, we talk to guests about their past, where they are today, and what they want for the future. And it kind of makes you realize you're never really done, are you? You're constantly changing, shedding old versions of yourself to reveal someone stronger, smarter, funnier even. Although my kids might argue that the point is you're evolving, becoming better every day. That's why Desert Tone diamonds are the perfect way of celebrating all that you are. And all that you're saying still becoming. They come in a range of unique, unexpected colors. Colors that reflect your unique, unexpected journey. Like warm whites, pale champagnes, deep ambers, smoky whiskeys. Natural colors that are truly unlike anything else. Just like you. So this holiday season, gift yourself a desert diamond to reflect all the shades of you. That's why a diamond is forever. Visit a diamondisforever.com to learn more. We are supported by ZipRecruiter. Go get recruiting. The holidays are coming, which means it's officially the season for weird jobs. We're talking haunted corn maze workers, lead elves, professional gift wrappers, even real bearded Santas. I love that these roles exist, but finding the right person for them, that is not easy. Whether you're hiring for one of these roles or any other role, the best way to find the perfect match for your role is on on ZipRecruiter. And right now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com Dax ZipRecruiter's matching technology works fast to connect you with top talent so you're not wasting time or money. You can see instantly how many job seekers in your area are qualified, and with ZipRecruiter's advanced resume database, you can reach out to great candidates right away. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. Let Zip Recruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And right now you can try it for [e-mail] Dax again that ziprecruiter.com Dax ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire Bump upon out wow. This show is sponsored by Liquid iv. You know what? I've been feeling it lately. That post summer crash where you're trying to get back into your fall routine but your energy just isn't there. Maybe it's the shorter days, maybe it's just life, but I was definitely dragging. Then I remembered I had stocked up on Liquid IV and it's been exactly what I've needed. Their new energy Multiplier Sugar free Hydrating Energy formula has natural caffeine plus electrolytes so I get the energy boost I need without the crash or jitters. Just one stick in 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone and it's always non gmo, vegan and gluten free.

[Monica Padman]

I live off of Liquid IV because I notoriously don't drink enough water and so I have to use it. So I'm getting that extra hydration and.

[Dax Shepard]

You'Re addicted as I recall, to the sugar free strawberry kiwi.

[Monica Padman]

I do like that.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a tasty one. Don't just power through your day, ditch the glitch with zero sugar and zero crash from Liquid IV. Tear pour live more. Go to Liquid I dot com and get 20 off your first order with code DAX at checkout. That's 20 off your first order with code DAX@liquid I dot com. Well the other thing about the movie that has really resonated with me and I think in some ways it should be required viewing for everyone in 2025 is there's something so depressing about the fact that in 1917 just getting getting food and having clothes for you and your wife and your baby was the struggle and you worked so hard and had to be away from them for so long to provide that. And then in your lifetime you see a man land on the moon, which is crazy. You know, to go from that to no electrification saws, to chainsaws, to steam powered tractors, to a man landing on the moon is almost inconceivable for someone to witness. Yeah. But the notion that we transferred into abundance. Maybe there was a couple weeks where people were satiated and felt grateful. But I'm so shook when I see that movie of how unsafe we all feel and how much we all still pine for things. And it's like, oh, wow, we live in total abundance and that we can eat whenever we want. And when shelter's pretty obtainable and clothes are pretty cheap. That was the struggle for 200,000 years. Homo sapiens were here. And then within five minutes, it's literally about. Do you have phone 12 or 13 as a cross crisis is so depressing.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And so human. Like, what the. When you watch this movie and you think, how could we have problems when the abundance has arrived?

[Joel Edgerton]

There's a moment where my character stares at a chainsaw in the movie and he can't seem to get it to work. And it's like me thinking about, do I download chat GPT still haven't done the one time I played with it on another friend's phone. He goes, look, just type something you want to see. And I was like, I want to see a dog giving a lecture in the 1950s in a university hall. I don't know why I chose that.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Joel Edgerton]

And then I changed the type of dog and it blew my mind enough to make it terrifying for me to go, I'm not ready for this. But I know I have to engage. But I remember the first time I pointed a video camera at my grandmother and she froze because she was like, well, this is a photograph, right? I'm like, no, you're allowed to move. Just thinking about her generation, which is. My character in the film is like the telephone. And she started her life without electricity. And then. You're right, it would have blown her mind. The pace of things. Now look at us.

[Dax Shepard]

My very favorite thing about the early years of the video camera. When you watch anyone's early home videos, for some reason, everyone thought they needed to narrate what you were already seeing. Here's Jenny opening her present. That's so true. She got a present from Grandma Jenny. Let's see the present. Oh, it's.

[Monica Padman]

It's a cabbage cow.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, every time I see, I'm like, why did you.

[Joel Edgerton]

We think we.

[Dax Shepard]

We were seeing it. I don't think we really realized yet that they would be seeing it. We used it as an audio recorder.

[Monica Padman]

That's.

[Dax Shepard]

Like wave. This is Glenn. Yeah, yeah, we know it's Glenn. He's your son in this video.

[Joel Edgerton]

We can see it. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Going into the study now. Yeah, it's the study, Dad.

[Joel Edgerton]

I still have this old video of me being a goalkeeper on my SO Match when I was like six years old, I saved the goal, and then the striker from the other team, he comes up, tries to kick the ball while I'm holding it. I got winded.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, it knocked the wind out of you.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. And I'm just lying on the ground.

[Dax Shepard]

It's so scary when you're little.

[Joel Edgerton]

And my dad, who's probably holding the.

[Dax Shepard]

Camera just like, you know, like refrigerator on his shoulder.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. And you just hear his voice yelling, get up, Joel, get up. Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, okay. The line in the movie that just sent me was on that sprint spring day when he had misplaced a sense of up and down. He knew finally that he was connected to it all. I was like, yeah. Oh, dude, that's one of the best lines I've ever.

[Joel Edgerton]

There's something about the wisdom in the movie. One of the things that you can pull out of it is this idea that at the end of the day, it's all been worth it or it's all okay. And that Robert, as a character for all of the things that he's got gone through, is reconciled to something, that there's a comfort in all of it. And I do believe that occasionally when I do stop doom scrolling or something pulls me out into my own sense of self and retrospect is looking at the snapshots of life in some way. There's a journey, or every now and then, there's a fractured memory of life from any period of your life. Well, even talking today with you, I have images in my head of times with my brother and my father. And life is beautiful, and life is not going to all be beautiful. Every now and then you get brought to your knees. But that's all of us. And I spoke to this lady last night, and we were talking about kindness. Just when a stranger does something generous. And particularly after the fires in California, which sort of resonant in train dreams. I talked to her about kindness, which I've experienced many times in my life where I'm like, somebody's so selflessly. There's something so simple, but it means the world to you in some way that helps you bring yourself back into the world. And she just sort of broke Open because she was talking about just the strange little things that popped up from people after the fires suddenly opened the front door, and there's food there for her and her family, and someone sent some clothes for her kids. And I believe at the core of us, that as kids, until we're corrupted, that we are actually wired to look after each other. Even if we're not family, we don't really want to hurt each other. I like to think that's our core human value, and I think we'd like to see that reflected in its own way in stories as well, because we know there's a lot of awfulness out there, and the awfulness is within us. In the wrong situation. Like we talked about, our rage is always there, but I think our beauty and our love is. Is also there.

[Dax Shepard]

And I can be compassionate to our rage because at the very core of all rage is deep, deep fear. Yeah, we get scared a lot.

[Joel Edgerton]

I agree with you. I think that's what motivates rage is fear, protectiveness, and mistrust. And it's a culture that leads us to that. I also feel. I'm getting back to you, Ape Chimp Empire. Don't you think that most Alpha males are actually just sort of fearful people? Hiding in plain sight, too, is like the fear of having to emulate or project or be something that may be deep down, no one feels like they're a superhero and unbreakable.

[Dax Shepard]

I think we all hate Alpha ness in some way because we see it as like, oh, this person has to be the ruler. But for me, it's like, no, no, I'm paying attention. There's lots of threats and no one else seems to be, and I need to get involved.

[Joel Edgerton]

I noticed this with a lot of people I met during Warrior who were fighters. The people I thought were the real Alphas were the kind of quietly stoic guys who didn't puff themselves up, didn't presume to kind of cajole people or kind of push people around. The ones who didn't brag about themselves.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

It was the ones just to the right who kind of puffed themselves up a little bit. It was like, you're almost Alpha, but you got to remind us how Alpha you are. Which means you're no longer Alpha to me.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Joel Edgerton]

You know what I mean? Those quietly people you look at and go, I want to walk down an alleyway with you.

[Dax Shepard]

My experience with that, which was so crystal clear, was doing two different USO tours in Afghanistan and hanging out with all the enlisted dudes. And then going to the Special Forces camp a few different times and going like, oh, this is crazy. These guys are so calm. There's no machismo. No one's flexing because they're the real operators, and they don't need to let anyone know because they know. I was like, oh, yeah, this is something, dude.

[Joel Edgerton]

There was a funny moment. Talk about different people's skill sets and what makes you feel comfortable or uncomfortable. On Zero Dark Thirty, Katherine Bigelow asked one of the real ex dev group, Navy SEAL guys. Beautiful guy. He said, oh, in this scene, one of you guys to walk the perimeter with the K9. I'd like you to say this line on the radio. Basically, he's like, on the comms, he had to say something like, perimeter clear. Same guy two days earlier had told me about a mission where they had parachuted in in the middle of the night carrying a big oil drum that had been jerry rigged, basically filled up with weapons. So two guys parachuting, holding this barrel, land in the ocean, frog suits swim up to this thing where these pirates are taken over this ship. And they'd go in there, kill all the pirates and save the hostages. And they did it. It went smoothly and successfully. And two days later, Catherine's like, can you say one line of dialogue in the movie? And he suddenly starts tearing. He gets terrified, and he's, like, freaking out.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm freaking.

[Joel Edgerton]

Breaking out. I'm like, yeah, yeah, okay. But you'll parachute in the middle of the night.

[Dax Shepard]

It goes to show how asymmetric fear is and how rooted in nothing it is.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah, right.

[Monica Padman]

And it's how individual it is.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Joel Edgerton]

This is so arbitrary.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like, here's a guy who will parachute in and board a pirate ship.

[Joel Edgerton]

I just couldn't believe. Okay. Everything he told me about the story, there was a thousand reasons why that was really, actually terrifying. He's like one line of, tyler, go boy. Yeah. He was just shaking.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it illustrates that fear of death's just one of the fears. And that could be low on your thing. And then fear of humiliation could be.

[Joel Edgerton]

A 30 maybe if Catherine had catched it this way. So first of all, you got to walk in there, kill a dude.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

Say this line of dialogue, then you kill another dude. I think I'm on a sandwich. I can do this.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, Joel, this has been a blast. I really, really love that movie. I really hope everyone sees it. It's beautiful, and it really forces you because of the pacing. It's so slow. It makes you kind of Slow down. And it does make you take stock of the things that have true value in your life, which is a rare feeling to have when watching a movie. Yeah, I'm mostly watching Mission Impossible. Like, I gotta learn how to parkour. I need to get out of a situation.

[Joel Edgerton]

I always think this, like, you know, you see these kids doing this crazy Instagram video now. Like, these real asymmetric gymnastic things and new ways of training, and parkour was one of them. Back 15, 20 years ago, I was like, if I was a young person now, I'd be into all of this stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I'm nervous. I'd be dead because I'd also want to be a hero on the videos. Yeah, I was in the narrating phase of video cameras.

[Joel Edgerton]

Well, you guys have an incredible following on your podcast. But I'd be worried if I was just starting as a young person on Instagram and that I'd get wrapped up in how many followers I have.

[Dax Shepard]

Of course you would.

[Joel Edgerton]

The cycle of that depression would be huge, and I worry about all that stuff. The engagement of social media. It feels like smartphones ruin my productivity. I should just turn the thing off and just make stories up instead of watching other people fall off a building.

[Dax Shepard]

I was swimming with my daughter last night, and she had shadowed at my older daughter's school for the day. So it was like her first taste of what it'll be like at this new school. She's in a class and she has nothing to do because they're teaching on some subject, and they just handed her a ton of paper. She's telling me how many things she drew. She's like, I drew this, and then I drew a picture of that. And then I drew. And I was like, oh, yeah, when you were in class, you're bored out of your mind. I did more fucking drawing in high school than I've ever drawn since. More notepassing. I'm drawing, I'm writing because I'm bored. And I hate being there coloring, and that's what it's robbed us of.

[Joel Edgerton]

I found a drawing that my friend Chris Howard and I drew in science class when we were in. I think it was grade, and we were designing and really, actually designing for the future. But we were designing a nuclear bunker.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Joel Edgerton]

But it was on science paper, you know, that grid paper. And it had a tunnel to a grocery store and had a tunnel to a brewery. It was definitely a dude bunker because then there was a room, too. And it was very rudimentary. It was early days. It wasn't like proper tech.

[Dax Shepard]

And it was an overhead schematic. You were seeing overhead.

[Joel Edgerton]

It was like looking at an ant's nest, you know, like tunnel here in a box. And then their was one room, which I assume was just like our harem. Stick figures of girls with, like, long hair.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

This is the girl's room. And this girl dressed forward.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

And then we had a helicopter pad ready for when the atmosphere was going to be right again. Certain. And at different times in my life, I've been certain. And now, particularly after watching House of Dynamite, I'm like, yeah, we're always inches away from me needing to go back to my bunker, design the girl room. For sure, though. I'm good without the girl. I don't want to make it a playroom for the kids.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe turn that into a school or something.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah. There was no educational facility. That's a good point.

[Dax Shepard]

Everyone knew what they needed to know already.

[Joel Edgerton]

What have we got to teach the world? If the world's ended with nuclear power, then we're all dummies anyway.

[Dax Shepard]

We know everything we need to know. Know already. All right, well, Train Dreams is in theaters on November 7th, and then it is on Netflix for all to consume November 21st. I hope everyone watches it. It's great. And Joel, I hope we get to have you on again. This is so fun.

[Joel Edgerton]

Thanks, man. This was great.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.

[Monica Padman]

No, it. That wasn't out up there.

[Dax Shepard]

What was it your makeup? Was it?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, My foundation. I am annoyed. Don't make fun of me. I was supposed to put makeup on and then my makeup was stolen.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it seems unlikely. I don't want to not believe her, but I. It does seem unlikely.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I don't know. I keep a little bag of makeup upstairs.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And the. There was some in there, but not the foundation. The important part.

[Dax Shepard]

Now Bobby Brown is against foundation.

[Monica Padman]

No, she just. She's into a natural look.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

So she wouldn't probably want, like, cakey foundation.

[Dax Shepard]

Thack.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, her foundation was the first foundation I ever used. It was a stick.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm glad to hear that's the truth, cuz you told her that in the interview. And if I found out now, you.

[Monica Padman]

Think I would lie about that?

[Dax Shepard]

I'm going to flatter her. Maybe it'd be a kind gesture.

[Monica Padman]

I don't do that.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't do kind gestures at the expense of the truth.

[Monica Padman]

That's right. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

I do occasionally. Like you like my new shirt? Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah. You. You always say that to me. You said that the other day about my shoes. Yep, I saw. I said, you like my shoes, and.

[Dax Shepard]

You said, yeah, you can't trust me. I'll just be. I'll give you the playbook.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You can't trust me if you ask me. But if I unsolicited mention that I like your sweater or something, that's genuine. Ask me. When I think of your boots, do you like these? But you know, like, hey, do you like my new boots? Because there's always some enthusiasm.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, hey, I just got these new boots. Do you like them?

[Dax Shepard]

No. I mean, that's devastating. Right?

[Joel Edgerton]

Look at you.

[Mel Robbins]

Even.

[Dax Shepard]

Even in an acting exercise, it hit you.

[Monica Padman]

I don't. I.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I didn't like that game.

[Dax Shepard]

I know, but do you see the point it proved?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I think you just say, like, yeah. Yeah. What you're right is a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Boots.

[Monica Padman]

Why don't you like these for real? Do you like them or. No?

[Dax Shepard]

No, they just have nothing. I said pick anything.

[Monica Padman]

But now I'm asking, for real, do you like them? They.

[Dax Shepard]

They're great.

[Monica Padman]

Are you serious?

[Dax Shepard]

They're not bad. And they're not. I wouldn't turn my head at them. They're not. They're neutral, which is a win.

[Joel Edgerton]

When.

[Dax Shepard]

When failures on the table. Neutral's a win. You hate it because it's silver medal.

[Monica Padman]

It's also not. These are gold medal shoes. It's like, the judge was not qualified and I should.

[Dax Shepard]

Now you're attacking me, and there's all the more reason to just fly. Ask me again. Ask me again.

[Monica Padman]

You like my boots?

[Dax Shepard]

I was just thinking, those are the greatest boots I've ever seen in my life.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you're. You'd be right.

[Dax Shepard]

And then when you go, I like you.

[Monica Padman]

You're my friend. Yeah. I'm having a bad morning.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That's okay. Let's talk about it.

[Monica Padman]

My makeup got stolen. One.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, two. First of all, I saw you before. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I saw you before. Your makeup was, quote, stolen.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you're already feeling a little melancholy.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I. I'm annoyed is what it is.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not even melancholy. I'm melanc. You're annoyed.

[Monica Padman]

You're melancholy.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm not trying to trump your annoying annoyance.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I just got some, like, annoying news.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

You found annoyed.

[Dax Shepard]

Your house is going to take longer than you thought.

[Monica Padman]

I just feel defeated.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And my parents are supposed to. You know, my parents are always supposed to come, and they can never Come.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So my dad's retiring and he wants to come.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Now he can't.

[Monica Padman]

Now he's to keep working.

[Dax Shepard]

Now he's going to work until he's. His last days.

[Monica Padman]

He has to work until my house is ready. That was the. That was the contract he made with his employer.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It was weird. It was unconventional.

[Dax Shepard]

Give you as long as it takes for my houses, my houses, my daughter's house to be completed. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And they're like, oh, God, he's going to then be out of here in a year.

[Dax Shepard]

No, they're building the house in la. You got a long time. You can start a.

[Monica Padman]

He has a. Another decade. It's okay. I'll be over it in like an hour. When we're done with this actually track.

[Dax Shepard]

After we're done, we're done with work.

[Monica Padman]

I'll be done. Yeah. But anyway, it's fine. Some happy things are that the other day, you know. Well, it's also been raining, but. But shockingly, I've done well.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You've weathered the storm, as we might say.

[Monica Padman]

I have leaned into the cozy nature of the rain.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's so fun.

[Monica Padman]

I've made the decision to enjoy it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, good.

[Monica Padman]

And I was walking back to the car with Jess a couple days ago, and it was raining a little bit, like sprinkling. And from far away in the distance, we hear this little voice, and she said, you guys okay in the rain? And she got a little closer and she had her umbrella and she was with a man, presumably her dad. But there's not. No way for me to know that.

[Dax Shepard]

You didn't have access to a DNA test.

[Monica Padman]

She was so spunky. And we were like, yeah, we're okay.

[Joel Edgerton]

Are you?

[Monica Padman]

And she was like, yeah, he's making me carry this.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, she was complaining about, yeah, she.

[Monica Padman]

Didn'T want to carry the umbrella.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

And I said, oh, yeah, but you look cute.

[Dax Shepard]

Nice.

[Monica Padman]

And she. She said, yeah, I got these glasses today. They came in the.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, she ordered them? Yeah. Oh, wow. They came in the mail. And then.

[Monica Padman]

And then I felt okay. Then I felt bad. So she took them. I was like, oh, my gosh, I love them so much. And she took them off and she was trying to clean them.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, yeah, give him a little cleaning. And then the dad was like, no, no. Remember, you're not supposed to do that unless. And I was like, I don't remember what he's. They obviously had a rule about maybe she's broken some glasses before, or maybe.

[Dax Shepard]

She Wipes them compulsively.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe. I don't know, but sounds like it.

[Dax Shepard]

The first thing he says, nice glass, is you're like, yeah, let's spiff these up.

[Monica Padman]

But he didn't like that. And I felt bad because I encouraged it.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Monica Padman]

And then I was mad at him because I was like, just let her. We're having a conversation. She just wants to clean her glasses. It's fine.

[Dax Shepard]

This is the tension of parenting. You're like, what, what are habits I need to point out that need broken and who gives a if he is.

[Monica Padman]

A parent or not? We don't know. But anyway, she put them back on and you know, she was chit chatting with us and I said, what's your name?

[Dax Shepard]

Name?

[Monica Padman]

And she said a B, B, B, B, B, Y.

[Dax Shepard]

No, Abby with four B's.

[Monica Padman]

So. And then I said Abby. And then Jess was, you know, like abba B, B, B. And then the dad under his breast said there's too many bees.

[Dax Shepard]

But what he was actually referring to is there was bees in a tree up ahead.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It seemed like they would like each other.

[Monica Padman]

I felt like he was an overwhelmed dad.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I think we said like, what are you guys doing? And they're like, we' around, you know, like get some. I think he was, he was saying get some energy out. Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

But he. Yeah. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And so I think like she, she's a handful. Yeah. Cuz she's so special. And it was, you know, then we left, we said bye to Abby. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. B, B, B B. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And. And I was like, oh my God, what a special person.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, but yeah, I guess if you're in charge of that person, that's hard.

[Joel Edgerton]

Sure.

[Monica Padman]

Double edged sword. So sparkly.

[Dax Shepard]

I have a couple of those.

[Monica Padman]

I know you guys okay. In the rain from so far away it was.

[Dax Shepard]

She heard someone say that at some point. Oh, that's a thing to say. I should say that at some point the opportunity presented itself.

[Monica Padman]

She was so cute and she had like the cutest hair. Dude. Anyway, I really liked her. Abby.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Share Expert if you dare. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apple Card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop. This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City branch terms and more@apple card.com. Speaking of cute.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I took my number one girl. I mean, I have two number one girls, but I want to be able to say number one girl. But I have two number one girls.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. I just. All right.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I want to say something.

[Monica Padman]

I know, but just like, one of them heard that. They wouldn't lie. I'm just telling you.

[Dax Shepard]

That's why I said I have two number one girls.

[Monica Padman]

No one likes to hear that.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I do. That's unfortunate for them. But I have two number one girls. And I took the younger of the two number one girls to Sabrina Carpenter on Sunday.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. I'm like, I can't describe the feeling.

[Monica Padman]

I feel like I, I, I, like, know it.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you know it?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I do.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like, I'm like, Loves it. Lovesick.

[Monica Padman]

It's so overwhelming.

[Dax Shepard]

It's overwhelming. And I'm lovesick. I can't believe that I got to be with her when she was at her first concert of someone she loved. And watching her dance and scream and sing along and wave the phone over her head with the light on and clapping on cue.

[Monica Padman]

Be alive. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, so much.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And then now I'm stuck. This very junior high of me in high school. I'm stuck on Don't Smile, the Sabrina song. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

You're listening to it a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

Over and over again all day long for, I guess, four or five days now. Cause I started listening to even before we went. And then I listen to the song when I look at the pictures of us at the concert. And then I get really emotional. And so, yeah, I feel like I'm in junior high and I'm just overwhelmed with feeling. Feelings of love.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And they're kind of original and new, and it's very, very nice.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm quick to tell on myself when I buy a donut for $20 to avoid the line. So I'm gonna tell you, I did do the full merch line as soon as we walked into Staples. I hate calling it crypto. That's the dumbest name for. And also. What? Crypto. Just generally speaking, crypto.

[Joel Edgerton]

It's crypto.com.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, that makes more sense.

[Dax Shepard]

I like Staples. It was called Staple. Staples Center. Not even Staples Arena. Yeah, I liked it.

[Monica Padman]

I'm sure you did.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you could always say to your wife or your partner, like, I gotta run up to Staples. And you're not lying if you go to a Lakers game.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, it's about deception.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, they Might think that you're going to get school supplies or office supplies.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And no one, like, let's put it this way. If someone says they got to go to Staples, you're like, oh, yeah, sorry, you got to do that. It's not. You're not going to Neiman Marcus to go shopping for fun. You are there for utility items, and it's a chore.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So you go like, I got to run to Staples. And then you go see the Lakers play, and then you come home and your partner is like, first of all, where.

[Monica Padman]

Where you been?

[Dax Shepard]

Why did it take that long?

[Monica Padman]

Where have you been?

[Dax Shepard]

And where's all the items?

[Monica Padman]

What you get?

[Dax Shepard]

And you go, what do you mean? I. I went. I went to the Lakers game.

[Monica Padman]

What? You said you were going to.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's Staples Center. Out. Out. I said, I'm going to Staples.

[Monica Padman]

You're a deceptive beast.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I'm not. I said, I'm going to Stables, and I went to Stables. Now, let's try this again. All right, I don't see. Heading over to crypto.

[Monica Padman]

Wait, you're going to invest in crypto?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Wait, no, we need to talk about that. We have what?

[Dax Shepard]

Invest in crypto. You're going to invest in crypto. Dot com. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. So you go to.

[Dax Shepard]

So I go into Staples and you. To walk a while to our section. So we walk through about a half of the arena or whatever, and there's a couple different merch stations.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And dude, there, you know, you know, you know, you're at these concerts.

[Monica Padman]

These lines are insane.

[Dax Shepard]

There's hundreds of people, right?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, thousands.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's like winding back and forth. You're not even quite sure where one enters this line.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I clocked it. And I was like, oh, boy. Let's see if she's going to ask for some merch.

[Monica Padman]

Of course.

[Dax Shepard]

And then you can't go and not get merch. So I got. I got misled. It said, doors open 5:30. Show starts at seven.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That doesn't mean Sabrina starts at seven.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So we sit in the seats. We're pretty early. Place is pretty empty. Just us. And then I think she doesn't even ask. I go, should we go hop in that merch line? And she's like, yeah, I think she's maybe even surprised. I'm willing to. So we went and guess what? Couple things. Things about the merch lines, they're not bad. They move. A lot of people watching and they move. They go quicker than you think. They're going to go. And it wasn't bad at all. And we took turns, each of us going to the bathroom and keeping our place in line. It all worked out. And I'm just remembering I got merch and I.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, good.

[Dax Shepard]

I got a shirt. I should have worn it. I'll wear it in the future.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, Wear it. Did you get a sweatshirt or a T shirt?

[Dax Shepard]

T shirt. T shirt.

[Monica Padman]

Cute.

[Dax Shepard]

I have so many sweatshirts.

[Monica Padman]

Sure. But you could always use more.

[Dax Shepard]

I really. At this point, I can't. Like, I was looking. I hang mine on hooks, and I was like, we gotta just this morning.

[Monica Padman]

Hangers on hooks. We got y.

[Dax Shepard]

Some are on.

[Monica Padman]

I'm disappointed.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. We got cute merch. We got snacks. We got. We got around to hot dogs. Hers had macaroni and cheese on the hot dog.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, dang.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Go staples.

[Monica Padman]

Go crypto to and.

[Dax Shepard]

And then we got some chicken tenders. Because we were there for 15 hours.

[Joel Edgerton]

Because.

[Dax Shepard]

Because she didn't start till 9.

[Monica Padman]

Right. But I'm glad you got in the line. I'm surprised, like, you have to get in that line so quick, because it goes. It sells out.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Well, we were starting to watch. That's the anxiety being in the line as you're watching them, like, remove the tote bag.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

And then you're like, well, hold on, there's six more stations. So, like, someone really wanted that tote bag. Do they have to go get in that other.

[Monica Padman]

And then that will also. Also sell out. It's.

[Dax Shepard]

The tote was popular, apparently. Or they didn't make a lot. My. That's my guess. They didn't think they're gonna sell as many as they did.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Speaking of our merch, people really bought stuff, and we're so excited for everybody to match us. And we're so happy you guys like it.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm excited for the people to receive it and feel the quality.

[Monica Padman]

Feel the quality.

[Dax Shepard]

Rub it all over your body and then cover your body with it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, do. And you will have it by the holidays.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. That's so good.

[Monica Padman]

We don't have any tote bags.

[Dax Shepard]

We don't have tote bags. So don't worry. They won't sell out.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, now, the show.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Was spectacular.

[Monica Padman]

Great.

[Dax Shepard]

I've now, I guess between last year and this year, I saw Taylor and then I saw Sabrina.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And they're much different performers, obviously. Yeah. But I was kind of, like, really fascinated with what I think Lane. She has staked out.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Have you ever seen her live?

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

No. Well, it's great. The set's incredible. There's all kinds of different dancers. It's wonderful. And then she often is, like, in between songs, and she can just sit and kind of stare at the camera and stare, like, look around and do all this stuff. And I was like, wow, this woman, she's so confident.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, right.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, she's so calm and confident.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. She's cheeky. That's her style.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And just so crazy confident. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Was. So it was being filmed, so maybe it's also going to be a movie too. They're all making these movies.

[Dax Shepard]

Be silly not to. They already have the cameras going to put it on the big, huge screen. Yeah. But anyways, it's so. It didn't start till 9. Right before she went on, Delty was on my shoulder falling asleep.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's hard for these little ones at these concerts. They're. They're a long time.

[Monica Padman]

It's tiring.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And we'd already been there for three and a half hours, I think at that point when the show started. Yeah. Boy, she sprang right away. Danced around.

[Monica Padman]

How long was the set? Like Sabrina?

[Dax Shepard]

About two hours. Ish. Oh, we had a really tricky call to make. We were given some lanyards. After we were already in our seat. A nice gentleman, Max, came and gave us some lanyards so that we could go to the friends and family area after the show. And I was like, oh, wow. We might. She might. Might come into there. We might meet her.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And mind you, it's already, like, it's late. And I stay to Delta. I'm like, okay, so we have these passes, you know, maybe. I don't know, don't get your expectations too high, but maybe we'll. We'll actually meet her. And you want to go. And she's like, oh, my God. Yeah. Right. So we go in there and we're in there for a while, 20 minutes, and I'm kind of looking around like there's a lot of people for her to wander into here.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

There were some snacks. We had more snacks. Yeah. I think this time I had cheese sticks. I don't eat chicken tenders. A hot dog. And there was marinara. Yeah. That whole spread.

[Monica Padman]

You mean mozzarella sticks?

[Joel Edgerton]

What?

[Dax Shepard]

I say cheese stick. Yeah, yeah. They were mozzarella brand cheese.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Because to me, a cheese. Cheese stick is a string cheese.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And a. A mozzarella stick is a breaded mozzarella stick. Breaded cheese with a marinara.

[Dax Shepard]

That's exactly what it was.

[Monica Padman]

Yum. I Love mozzarella sticks.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Well, you would have loved these. They were tiny. They were like cocktail wiener size.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

So you kind of pop them like.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah. Pop them like a nap.

[Dax Shepard]

So we were in there for about 20, and I just started thinking, there's no chance in hell she's coming into this room.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, so I, I said to Delta, I. I don't. You know, I don't think this is her. There's too many people in here for her to come through. And she's like, yeah, I was pretty proud of her. She.

[Joel Edgerton]

She.

[Dax Shepard]

She seemed to accept that outcome.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

If I were her, I might been fighting for, like.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you know, please, let's just stay and wait and see.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Like, when I was seeing Billy Idol, her age, the notion that Billy Idol might have come out, I probably would have stuck around to the last person.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Just in case.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, same.

[Dax Shepard]

But yeah. So we did not get home till midnight.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

School night.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Who did she arrest? Isn't she arresting people at these.

[Dax Shepard]

She put some cuffs on somebody for being too hot. We couldn't see from our side of the stage. They were on the opposite side of the stage. I saw brown hair.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, cool.

[Dax Shepard]

That's good. They didn't give it to a blonde she arrested.

[Monica Padman]

I think she arrested Anne Hathaway once.

[Dax Shepard]

She did, yeah. Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

It was Dakota and Ellie Fanning.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, Dakota.

[Dax Shepard]

That's who she arrested on Sunday. Yeah.

[Joel Edgerton]

The 16th, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, she arrests famous people.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That's why I said Anne Hathaway, Dakota and Elle.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, they're blonde now. You got your. Are they both blonde? Maybe she arrested a Bruno at too. I'm surprised. I didn't see him on that. They didn't pop them on the big screen.

[Monica Padman]

I am surprised about that. Maybe you were in the potty.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I did not go to the potty during the show.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, well, it seems like you missed a lot because it was not brown hair. Unless one of them has dyed their.

[Dax Shepard]

Hair for a role.

[Mel Robbins]

For a role.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, blonde. Both very blonde.

[Dax Shepard]

So that's who they.

[Joel Edgerton]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. We're on the very obvious opposite side of that.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Can you. Rob, can you rotate the camera around so you can see Delta. That looks like a Jumbotron, though. Yeah. It does appear that they're on the jump. I guess we were looking at stage anyways. Who cares? Point is, we had a riot. We had a riot.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fun times. Fun times galore.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Love it.

[Dax Shepard]

Should we do some facts? Sure.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Facts. I'm glad that's not one of our routines where we say it in sync, because people. 3, 2, 1.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe people would like it because then they could do it too.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't. I think they would like it three times. Yeah, but, like, on time. 100. Oh, my God. Do you guys stop doing. Let's do it one more time. Three, two, one. Yeah, it's already repugnant.

[Monica Padman]

I think we should get to do it three times a year.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so that was one.

[Monica Padman]

No, it would start next year.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Now, one thing about Train Dreams. We did talk about it for a second, but it's Callie's movie. Callie's on Broadway.

[Dax Shepard]

She directed it. She wrote it. She produced it.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. No, she didn't. But she has been talking about this movie all year and. And is on the team at Netflix, the marketing team for this movie. And she had told me once the tag, like a tagline. Then I couldn't remember and I couldn't find it. But it's. I texted her, you don't have to do big things to live a big life.

[Dax Shepard]

Mm, that's nice.

[Monica Padman]

And I thought that was lovely. There's also one that's internal, so I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

So I'm not saying.

[Dax Shepard]

Great. Thanks for the tease.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But anyway, so see the movie.

[Dax Shepard]

See it.

[Monica Padman]

See the movie now.

[Dax Shepard]

3, 2, 1.

[Monica Padman]

I almost forgot what it was.

[Dax Shepard]

You forgot your line. It's one word.

[Monica Padman]

Those are the hardest ones to remember.

[Dax Shepard]

We always talk about that. Yeah. I think it came up in this episode. I think it did. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. There really aren't many at all, other than Callie's tagline.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, Callie wrote, directed.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. What fell?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, just my Amber mug isn't keeping it warm. And I wondered, is that thing even plugged in? Is what I wondered. Then I explored because I have impulse control issues because I might be adhd, but I don't know.

[Monica Padman]

I. God, I just had this conversation with someone, and we've had it before, and.

[Dax Shepard]

I just hate when people self diagnose.

[Monica Padman]

I hate.

[Dax Shepard]

But can I tell you my. Like, you gotta honor this, which is gob or mate said to me, have you ever been diagnosed?

[Monica Padman]

I don't.

[Dax Shepard]

If there ever there was a clue.

[Monica Padman]

It doesn't mean you're diagnosed, though. He probably just was like, maybe you have it, but that doesn't mean you do.

[Dax Shepard]

I think he was like, oh, this is adhd. Yeah. I don't need the diet. That's fine if I don't. What I'll say is when I look at the symptoms of it, it's hard to deny that I have many of those symptoms.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But to me, the diagnosis is when it's problematic, like just having qualities. Like, I just had this fight with somebody. Okay. Not fight, conversation. No, it really wasn't. But. But I was just like, they told me that someone we knew mutually was diagnosed as on the spectrum.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, okay. Or maybe they weren't diagnosed, but, like, said they were on the spectrum. I don't know. But I was like, I know this person. They're not. They're not like, getting in the way of anything they're trying to accomplish.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I do feel. Feel that it's not fair to people who are definitively on the spectrum to say, like, I'm quirky. So I'm on the spectrum.

[Dax Shepard]

I understand that. I understand that it feels disrespectful to people that have a pathological version that is a disorder that is. Is standing in the way of their life.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. It's like.

[Dax Shepard]

But what I would say is you're evaluating someone very late into it. So I did have. I was disruptive in the classroom. I was getting thrown up. I had impulse control issues. I. There were tons of times I got terrible grades. You. Like, I had downside. I was just reading this. One aspect of it is like, what happens in a debate for someone with ADHD is immediately amygdala is engaged right out of the gates. And then on top of that, they. They have done. They have measured the dopamine levels of ADHD people when they're engaged in a debate, and you're getting a ton of dopamine and serotonin. So it is fueling on your. You get pleasure out of fighting. Right. Like, they've observed this in the brain. And I'm like, well, you know, yeah, that definitely described me when I was younger and over years in the same way. Like, I don't not have dyslexia now that I can read just fine. It's like, I had it. It was really problematic. I eventually gathered tools, and now I'm fine with it. I think that could also be the case. Right. Like, I could have had a lot of challenges with ADHD that we didn't know they were. Those were. That. But over time, I learned to work with them.

[Monica Padman]

I just. But it could also just be your personality.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And again, it's all very hard. It's all very arbitrary. It's a spectrum. You can have adhd at an 11 and you can have it at a 1.

[Monica Padman]

But then to me, I'm like, then it's just, we all have it, and then where are you on the side? I don't think that's fair. I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

Even if you want to call it personality types, let's call it personality types. Okay, so there's a personality type which is, like, shy and not impulse control and not enjoying debate and fights and not an overinflated sense of injustice and not fidgety. Trying to do nine things at once. And you can't brush your teeth, like, fine. So I have that personality type. I know it doesn't need to be a disorder, but I do have a, A bucket of overlapping symptoms.

[Monica Padman]

Sure. We have overlapping symptoms with so many things, and that creates a personality. And I think some time, you know, it's like what you, you used to say a lot about, like, calling people racist. He's like, you're like, we can't call this person racist when there's a. Exactly. And I, I, you know, you're having.

[Dax Shepard]

That issue with it. Yeah, I think a. And this isn't your issue. I think a lot of people's issue with it is what they think is I'm asking for sympathy or compassion. And I'm not. They're like, you don't deserve sympathy. That person can't even go to work. Right. But I'm not saying it because I want sympathy. I'm saying now that I know all these characteristics about it, I'm certainly checking. Yes. On a lot of those boxes. It's not a detriment to me right now. It's, it's, it's. Now that, you know, there are things that I struggle with, I think harder than other people struggle with.

[Monica Padman]

Everyone has things they struggle with that other people don't like that. But I don't, I don't think that's. I don't think those are disorders. I think those are personalities that, like, we all have strengths and we all have weaknesses and, like, you know, I, I. And it is, because it's like dyslexia. Dyslexia. You have, you've tested into twice. Yeah. You see, you see letters mixed up.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, see them? I don't even know what it is.

[Monica Padman]

So the point is you have that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I think if someone is like, I have dyslexia, like, it's hard for me to read.

[Dax Shepard]

So I hear this a ton. I can't tell you how many people tell me they have dyslexia. It happens a few times a Week. I personally don't go like, well, have you been evaluated? Like, who evaluated you? Did you go to school? Was it in college? I don't care. I know what they're telling me is it's hard for them to read.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's fine. But then if everyone. Someone has dyslexia, then it does make it harder for people who have dyslexia to get seen as really having it. To get the extra time on the test to do. Like, if everyone just has it.

[Dax Shepard]

But I don't think it does because you, you can't just say I have dyslexia to get extra time on your test. You do have to do what I did at ucla, which is like go through weeks of testing.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So I don't think anyone with dyslexia is being penalized that everyone's using it kind of colloquially. This is the thing with people with ocd. They're really pissed that people with OCDP are claiming to have that's fine. And they right to. And I'm not mad at them for that. I, as someone with dyslexia, I don't care that people are saying they're dyslexic.

[Monica Padman]

Right. That's fine. I'm just saying I don't want it to affect people who, you know, are non verbal autistic.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Because you know, someone has like a cork and is like, I'm neurodivergent too. I'm like, well, there's just such.

[Dax Shepard]

Here's where I totally agree with you. All of this pretends that there's this large majority of our population that is, quote, normal.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

You are neuro atypical or neurodivergent from this group. So what I agree, what I think is true is that this group doesn't exist.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. This group is all of us.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

We all have all kinds of things.

[Dax Shepard]

That part I agree with you on. But, but the irritation over people doing it, I don't care. It's like a semantic thing. And maybe they are and maybe they aren't what's important to me, I think. Unless they're looking for sympathy, which I have no tolerance for.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

As you know. But if they're just trying to explain themselves to me and there's now some new words available that kind of seem to condense the thing they're trying to relay about themselves to me, that's okay, I guess.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, it's one thing to make if they're using the symptoms to describe it, but to say, like, I Have. This is. Is like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, anywho, how big were Andre the Giant's hands?

[Dax Shepard]

This is a big thing too with people like, gluten free. They get. So they're like, they have celiacs. Like, were you tested for celiac?

[Monica Padman]

Well, but that again, but okay, again, like, Cali has it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

She has celiac. So when she tells the person at the. The server, yeah. She says, is it gluten free? And they're like, yeah. She's like, okay. But she has to say, but I have celiac, so can you please really double check and make sure. And then they're like, oh, yeah, I'll check.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So it. It is a little bit of a thing that everyone's like, I'm gluten free.

[Dax Shepard]

This is all really funny, right? Cuz like, I'm on the other side and it drives me insane because I asked, do you gluten free bread? And they go, do you have an allergy?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, they need to know.

[Dax Shepard]

And they do need to know. It just gets so serious right away. Like, they're not going to sell me something.

[Joel Edgerton]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Like they're now they're afraid they're going to get sued.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'll be like, no, no, no. Yeah. So I'm like, no, no, I don't have an allergy. Are you sure? Like, no, no. I just now I was like, well, I have one of my. I have psor arthritis that if it. There is a bunch of gluten, my joints might hurt. I'm not going to go into anaphylactic shock and I won't get Crohn's over it. So. No, it's not that. That big of a deal.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Relative to. To Cali.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I think you. Yeah, yeah. I. But I understand why they have to be careful. Probably because so many people just are like, I'm gluten free.

[Dax Shepard]

People sue a lot. They said it was gluten free and they got sick.

[Monica Padman]

And then they can be really dangerous for some people. And others are like, my tummy hurts.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's like, that's not the same.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

So I do think checking is good. And yeah. And she. We always like, just so you know, it's an allergy.

[Dax Shepard]

It's the real.

[Monica Padman]

And then they always say like, let me double check.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So anyway, it's just. Life's crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

I think it's very common, though. I think, like, what you and I are talking about. Everyone talks about Yeah, I think people.

[Monica Padman]

I think they're all going to talk about it now that we talked about it. Okay. How big were Andre the Giant's hand?

[Dax Shepard]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. I just, like, it's good to remember we're constantly on the same side. Side of arguments with just simply a little bit different ingredients. Right, sure. So, like, the way you're up, you get annoyed by that. I have been annoyed with you when you've said I have cancer or whatever. You know, the things you've announced you have medically. And I'm like, you haven't gone to the doctor and been diagnosed. Right. And I get really upset at you. I want you to, like, don't think that you have that right until you've gone and they've told you. So I'm acknowledging I've been on the opposite side of this argument. I'm just trying to acknowledge that.

[Monica Padman]

But I'm joking. If I have so far. If I've said I have cancer, which, by the way, I don't think I have, because that actually would scare me to jinx you.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think I do that.

[Dax Shepard]

But you have thought you had a lot of different things.

[Monica Padman]

I thought I've had things, but I'm not serious. If I'm like, I have a tumor, like, I know if I really thought I did, I would of course go get it checked out. So that's me being like, like, hyperbolic and like, it's a funny thing, but apparently it's not.

[Dax Shepard]

No, you remember that I've been upset with you saying you have things. Right.

[Monica Padman]

But, yeah, you do sometimes. Because I'm like, oh, my, like, back hurts. And it does.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, I think I have blank.

[Monica Padman]

Or be like, I. It's either period, or I have, like, a kidney thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And then, yeah, you're like, you need to get it looked at. And I'm. I'm already like, I'm just trying to.

[Dax Shepard]

Own that I've been on you. Your side of this argument. We just had this chat. We just had.

[Monica Padman]

I know, but I. I think it's a little different because I'm not claiming to have a pathology. What's funny is. And it. I do think this is interesting, me and you did feel the same way about ADHD at one point. You used to think this.

[Dax Shepard]

I still think that ADHD has taken over social media now. We all think we have it.

[Monica Padman]

And you even said there was a specific person that said that they had it, and you were, like, so annoyed by it and as I was too. And now you think you have it and you're doing the same thing this person did.

[Dax Shepard]

I am so.

[Monica Padman]

I think that's funny.

[Dax Shepard]

I am. Yeah. And I don't think anyone needs to feel bad for me or I have a handicap.

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I just think I have a ton of the things on the list.

[Monica Padman]

Sure, it's a great personality.

[Dax Shepard]

But again, we're making an arbitrary distinction between a personality and a disorder and a pathology.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that's my whole point.

[Dax Shepard]

But again, we're still just talking about how someone is.

[Monica Padman]

We are there medication and stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

There's some line. We go, okay, so you're. You're getting a C like there is. Right. They're drawing a line and they're going to decide on this side of the line is a pathology. On this side it's not. And that's just decided by people.

[Monica Padman]

Doctors should be. Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But it's not a test. Test.

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like depression discovering in your DNA here's the loci for this condition. It's still a diagnosis that is arbitrary in nature.

[Monica Padman]

I just think it should be a. You should be diagnosed if it requires change. Different like medicine, you know, whatever We. I mean, I guess this is sort of back to that awesome guest we had on who was talking about over diagnosing.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh yeah, from England. She was great.

[Monica Padman]

How big were Andre the Giant's hands? This is the third time I've said it.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

16 inches long from wrist to fingertip.

[Dax Shepard]

From wrist to fingertip. Boy, I wish I had a tape measure right now.

[Monica Padman]

See, I mean imagine a full ruler.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, how about this? My shoes is 12 inches.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. So that's like a ruler.

[Dax Shepard]

So we're going to. Here. First of all, what's just that one?

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Hi, Monica.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Now we're gonna go four inches past that.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Holy smokes.

[Monica Padman]

Enormous. This immense size allowed him to palm a basketball with ease and made him comparable in size to a silverback gorilla. Okay. The only other fact is that we talk about AI and he wanted to see a dog giving a lecture. Like he asked.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, right. He had designed.

[Monica Padman]

He designed that. And. And when I was at Charlie's house for the Dodgers game, he has an app on his phone. I guess it's in like development. And he took a. Like we put it in front of my face and I just turned right and left and then I just said three numbers. That was it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And then he said have Monica running on a beach and yelling at a dog.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Monica Padman]

And it's so good.

[Joel Edgerton]

It is.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God.

[Monica Padman]

And then he was doing a lot of those, like me complaining at a restaurant. I was like, you could really take me out.

[Joel Edgerton]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe it'll swing in the other way. Because if. If you can't trust, if that's real, then it's just nothing matters.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. No holds barred.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You can always just go as A.I.

[Monica Padman]

I was a. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Wasn't me.

[Dax Shepard]

A.I. crashed my car drunk. Dr. I had nothing.

[Monica Padman]

It was. To me, it was a hologram. They're that good. All right.

[Dax Shepard]

Love you.

[Monica Padman]

Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey hey there, armchairies.

[Monica Padman]

Guess what?

[Mel Robbins]

It's Mel Robbins. I'm popping in here, taking out my own ad. Holy cow. Dax, Monica and I, I don't want this conversation to end. And I'm sorry. So glad you're here with us. And the other thing, I can't believe Dax loves the Let Them theory. He can't stop talking about it. I hope you're loving listening as much as I love having you here. And I also know since you love listening to Armchair Expert, you know who you're going to love listening to? The Let Them Theory audiobook. And guess who reads it?

[Monica Padman]

Me.

[Mel Robbins]

And even if you've read the book, guess what? The audiobook is different. I tell different stories. I riff, I cry. You're going to love it because it's going to feel like I'm right there next to you. We're in this together as we learn to stop controlling other people. So thanks again for listening to this episode of Armchair Expert. And check out the audiobook version of the Let Them Theory, read by yours truly, available now on Audible. You can even try it out for free with an Audible trial. Download the Audible app today.