Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard: Episode Featuring Ken Goldberg (Roboticist) Release Date: January 8, 2025

1. Introduction to Ken Goldberg

In this episode, host Dax Shepard welcomes Ken Goldberg, the Williams S. Floyd Distinguished Chair in Engineering at UC Berkeley. Ken is an award-winning roboticist, filmmaker, artist, and a prominent public speaker on AI and robotics. Dax shares his initial skepticism about Ken but quickly reveals how their relationship evolved into a deep admiration and friendship.

2. Origin Story: How Dax Met Ken Goldberg

Dax recounts their first meeting at a conference. Initially feeling judgmental, Dax's perspective changes when he converses with Ken about the state of AI. This interaction ignited a friendship based on mutual respect and shared interests.

Dax Shepard [04:24]: "I prepped Monica by saying, you're gonna really like my friend Ken. If Fred Armisen was a roboticist, this would be Ken."

3. Ken Goldberg's Upbringing and Education

Ken was born in Nigeria due to his parents' commitment to civil rights activism. His parents, idealists from the 1960s, served at a school in Nigeria, teaching physics and English under challenging conditions. Ken spent his early years in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, where his father worked as a metallurgist at Bethlehem Steel. This environment fostered his resilience, with Ken recounting experiences of schoolyard fights that shaped his character.

Ken Goldberg [11:19]: "Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love, has a lot of integration, great history there... around the time of Nigerian independence."

4. Academic Journey and Career in Robotics

Ken pursued a double major in economics and engineering at Penn, graduating summa cum laude. He then obtained his PhD in computer science from Carnegie Mellon University (CMU), where he was introduced to the foundational concepts of AI and robotics. Post-graduation, Ken briefly taught at USC before fully immersing himself in the field of robotics.

5. History and Challenges in Robotics

Ken delves into the rich history of robotics, tracing its roots back to ancient Egypt and Greek mythology. He highlights stories like Pygmalion and the Golem, emphasizing humanity's long-standing fascination and fear of creating life-like machines. The conversation progresses to the Industrial Revolution, where robotics began to take shape in manufacturing, particularly in the automotive industry.

Ken Goldberg [37:16]: "If you think about something that looks human or a machine that has, like, surprising abilities, people have been always fascinated by that."

6. Advances in AI and Robotics: Deep Learning and DexNet

A significant breakthrough discussed is the advent of deep learning around 2012, which revolutionized AI by enhancing machine vision and object recognition. Ken shares the development of DexNet, a system his team created to improve robotic grasping using deep learning techniques. DexNet vastly outperformed previous models, demonstrating robots' enhanced ability to handle diverse objects in dynamic environments.

Ken Goldberg [54:04]: "DexNet was our system. We worked on it for five years and we basically applied deep learning techniques to be able to figure out where to grasp objects."

7. Skepticism and Hype in AI and Robotics

Ken expresses concern over the rampant hype surrounding AI and robotics, fearing that unrealistic expectations could lead to disillusionment and funding cuts. He points out that many viral robotic demonstrations are misleading, often showcasing one successful attempt out of hundreds of failures, which misrepresents the technology's current capabilities.

Ken Goldberg [59:54]: "There's a lot of hype, and that's what I worry about."

8. Ken's Art Exhibit and Collaboration

Beyond robotics, Ken collaborates with his wife, Tiffany Schlane, a filmmaker and technologist, to create art that intertwines science and creativity. Their current exhibit at the Skirball Cultural Center, titled "Ancient Wisdom for a Future Ecology: Trees, Time, and Technology," explores the history of knowledge through the metaphor of tree rings. The exhibit features a massive eucalyptus tree stump inscribed with scientific equations, symbolizing the convergence of art and science.

Ken Goldberg [76:12]: "We decided to do something around that started with the Tree of Knowledge... it has 600 questions or something on there."

9. Future of Robotics and AI

Discussing the future, Ken emphasizes the importance of addressing the physical aspects of AI and robotics, such as motor control and sensory perception, which remain significant challenges. He advocates for a complementary approach where humans and robots collaborate, leveraging each other's strengths to create more efficient systems.

Ken Goldberg [43:37]: "Robot cannot do that at all. But pulling one thing out of the bin is really interesting because you have to kind of move things around a little bit, sort of see a little piece of it, then pick it up."

10. Closing Remarks and Philosophical Insights

Ken shares his optimistic outlook, believing that robots can enhance human capabilities without replacing them. He reflects on the philosophical aspects of creation, intelligence, and the inherent beauty in scientific discoveries, hinting at a belief in a higher order that drives innovation and breakthroughs.

Ken Goldberg [81:07]: "I think we need to imagine that there is a higher calling, which is kind of knowledge... when these breakthroughs happen, I get a glimpse of it."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Dax Shepard [04:24]: "I prepped Monica by saying, you're gonna really like my friend Ken. If Fred Armisen was a roboticist, this would be Ken."
• Ken Goldberg [37:16]: "If you think about something that looks human or a machine that has, like, surprising abilities, people have been always fascinated by that."
• Ken Goldberg [54:04]: "DexNet was our system... to be able to figure out where to grasp objects."
• Ken Goldberg [59:54]: "There's a lot of hype, and that's what I worry about."
• Ken Goldberg [76:12]: "We decided to do something around that started with the Tree of Knowledge... it has 600 questions or something on there."
• Ken Goldberg [81:07]: "I think we need to imagine that there is a higher calling, which is kind of knowledge... when these breakthroughs happen, I get a glimpse of it."

Conclusion

This episode offers an insightful exploration of Ken Goldberg's journey in robotics, his collaborative art endeavors, and his thoughtful perspectives on the future of AI and robotics. Ken's blend of technical expertise and artistic creativity provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the challenges and triumphs in the field of robotics.

Note: Advertisements, introductory remarks, and non-content sections from the transcript have been omitted to focus solely on the substantive discussions and insights shared during the episode.