Malala Yousafzai (education activist)

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Episode: Malala Yousafzai (Education Activist)
Release Date: November 5, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively and revealing conversation, Dax Shepard and co-host Monica Padman welcome Nobel Peace Prize winner and education activist Malala Yousafzai. The episode, centered around Malala's latest memoir "Finding My Way," captures a new side of Malala—playful, candid, and grappling with coming-of-age experiences as a student at Oxford, alongside the monumental legacy of her activism. Far from being solely a recounting of trauma and global seriousness, this episode pulls back the curtain to show Malala as a young woman navigating love, friendship, cultural expectations, and her own anxieties with humor and insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Malala Before the World Knew Her

• Early Activism: Malala became an activist at age 10, blogging for the BBC at 11 about the Taliban's ban on girls’ education in Swat, Pakistan.

  “I blogged for the BBC at age 11, and I volunteered to be in the New York Times documentary when schools were closed by the Taliban.” (Malala, 07:54)

• Family Influence: Her father, an educator, was uniquely supportive, encouraging her activism despite the risks, while her mother was more cautious due to cultural and safety concerns.

2. The Aftermath of the Attack and Rebuilding Life in the UK

• Trauma & Displacement: Malala recounts waking from a coma after the attack in a completely foreign environment, disconnected from her parents, and unaware of her global notoriety.

  “It was a complete shock to wake up in a different country, surrounded by people who were speaking a different language.” (Malala, 15:29)

• Rapid Change: Life moved quickly—Malala started the Malala Fund, gave her first UN speech, and was enrolled in an English high school, all while adjusting to personal trauma and culture shock.

3. Struggles of Teenage Life & Loneliness

• Friendship and Fitting In: Despite her accolades, Malala felt isolated in her UK school, self-conscious about her facial nerve damage, and struggled to make friends.

  “I would try to have a conversation with people. You start and it dies.” (Malala, 18:14)

• Keeping Vulnerability Private: She rarely shared her struggles with her parents, not wanting to worry them further.
• “I was supposed to be this strong, brave, courageous girl, you feel you cannot complain about not having friends or crying alone in the bathroom... I never really shared it with my parents.” (Malala, 21:00)

4. Winning the Nobel Peace Prize—A Surreal High School Story

• Malala describes the odd juxtaposition of being awarded the Nobel Prize at age 17—hearing the news in chemistry class and returning to her routine among largely indifferent classmates.

  “The day after, it was just back to normal. Everybody's looking the other way… You're winning the Nobel Prize, and you're not getting invited to McDonald's.” (Malala/Dax/Monica, 22:35)

5. Parental Dynamics, Pressure, and Cultural Expectations

• Malala describes her deep respect for her parents, but also the emotional pressure she felt to be their source of happiness and the family’s anchor in a new country, while still just a teenager.

  “I had taken this adult role from such an early age... My dad, mom, everybody had to move to a new country. So I was doing all these things… signing a book, documentary, speeches, making an income. I cannot be that child anymore.” (Malala, 25:33)

6. Giving Back: Starting a Girls’ School in Pakistan

• Malala used her Nobel Prize money to found a high school for girls in her home village—a project she calls deeply rewarding, seeing the "first class graduate" years later.

  “If we can make it happen there, there's hope we can make it happen elsewhere.” (Malala, 26:50)

7. Coming-of-Age at Oxford University

• Determination to Make Friends:

  “I'm going to Oxford and I am going to make friends. I should be everywhere.” (Malala, 28:42)

• Freshers’ Fair & Social Anxiety: Signs up for every club, tries rowing (despite not knowing how to swim), and describes accidental fame when students recognize her from Oxford Union posters.
• Learning to Dress “Normal”:

  “I googled Selena Gomez Casual Wear 2017, and What to Wear to College 2017 because I had never worn anything but [traditional clothes].” (Malala, 38:05)

8. Navigating Relationships, Crushes, and Finding Love

• First Crushes & Fantasy Relationships: Candidly discusses fixating on emotionally unavailable men as a way to feel safe from real vulnerability or rejection.

  “I preferred the fantasy in my head where everything was both thrilling and safe. Obsessing over an unapproachable boy was just another way of avoiding rejection and staying single.” (Malala, 46:53)

• Meeting Future Husband, Asar: A "meet-cute" involving go-karting, followed by genuine affection and slow-building trust. Malala describes her anxieties and the cultural obstacles to embracing a real relationship.
• On Love & Vulnerability:

  “When I fell in love, I felt more vulnerable… Love can make you feel so weak. Ew.” (Malala, 90:16)

9. Mental Health & Trauma: The Hidden Story

• Delayed PTSD and Therapy: Experimenting with weed at Oxford triggered severe traumatic flashbacks for the first time.

  “Everything changed instantly. I was reliving the Taliban attack... That's when my mental health journey began.” (Malala, 71:51)

• Therapy Journey: Initially resisted, but then embraced, finding relief in talking, understanding anxiety, and learning to accept her full range of emotions beyond just “being brave.”

10. Internet Backlash & Social Media Scrutiny

• Skinny Jeans Controversy: Viral photo sparks orchestrated criticism—from being “too Western” to “not liberated enough.” Malala stands firm.

  “I'm not here for some pilgrimage. I'm here to study. I'm not going to be defending myself or apologizing.” (Malala, 54:49)

11. Autonomy, Growth, and Redefining Bravery

• Malala describes not sharing her new memoir with her parents until after publication, as an act of independence and self-actualization.

  “This book is kind of a declaration of… I’m going to be a full person now… It’s brave and, I hope, liberating for you.” (Dax, 89:45)

• Redefining Courage:

  “Now I’m more open to accepting emotions... True bravery is when you go through the lowest and still stand up and do what you believe in. That is true courage.” (Malala, 90:16)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On her supportive father:

  “He made a commitment that he would want a different life for his daughter. He didn't stop me from speaking out… my dad just would remind them that they mind their own business.” (Malala, 12:12)

• On social pressure for girls:

  “If you are born a girl, it just means you do not have the same life as a boy.” (Malala, 12:12)

• On being the “strong girl” after trauma:

  “I was actually, like, really happy with myself, that I didn’t need therapy, that I had overcome all of these things so quickly...and suddenly something so small triggered the whole trauma.” (Malala, 75:49)

• On friendship and social success at Oxford:

  “Friends in your early 20s is such a blessing… I am who I am today because of these friends.” (Malala, 42:18)

• On setting boundaries and parental expectations:

  “I decided not to share this book with my parents because I wanted it to reflect my feelings and my emotions.” (Malala, 89:43)

• On growing up in the public eye:

  “It’s dangerous to celebrate young people in such a profound way.” (Dax, 75:23)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 05:00 – Malala’s book tour and meeting Dax/Monica in person
• 07:54 – Early activism, blogging for BBC
• 10:06 – Gender roles and family dynamics in Pakistan
• 15:29 – Waking up in the UK after the Taliban attack
• 18:14 – Social struggles at British high school
• 21:00 – Hiding vulnerability from parents
• 22:00–22:46 – Winning the Nobel Prize as a 17-year-old
• 25:33 – Shouldering adult responsibilities as a teen
• 27:26 – Starting a girls’ school in her home village
• 28:42 – Arriving at Oxford; signing up for everything to make friends
• 38:05 – Googling “Selena Gomez Casual Wear” to fit in
• 46:53 – The fantasy of unrequited crushes as safety
• 64:01 – First meeting with her future husband, Aasar
• 71:51 – Smoking weed triggers traumatic flashbacks
• 76:39 – Therapy for PTSD and anxiety
• 54:49 – Social media outcry over jeans photo
• 90:16 – Redefining true bravery and personal growth

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Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is open, vulnerable, often playful, and full of mutual curiosity. Dax and Monica are warm and self-deprecating, while Malala oscillates between earnestness, humor, and candid self-reflection. They frequently veer into light-hearted teasing and relatable stories about awkward teenage experiences, all while touching on profound emotional and societal themes.

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Takeaways

This episode brings Malala Yousafzai into sharp focus not just as a symbol of activism, but as a multidimensional individual—funny, sincere, sometimes lonely, determined to find friendship and love, and learning to claim her own narrative in the midst of extraordinary scrutiny. Her journey is at once both singular and universally relatable for anyone who has struggled with the weight of expectation, the search for connection, and the process of healing.

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Recommended: Malala's memoir, Finding My Way, for a moving look at her personal journey beyond activism.

Transcript

[A]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free. Right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. Experts on Expert. I'm Dan shepherd and I'm joined by Lily Padman.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

Today we have Malala Yousafzai.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And guys, this is a message to me. Not most listeners will be like, oh, I can't wait to listen. But for pieces of shit like me.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Because that are like, I don't necessarily want to go on a super emotional ride. I just want to say this is the version of Malala that is the fun, playful, college student, coming of age version.

[B]

Yeah. Human.

[A]

Yes. Which is really shockingly fun and uplifting and I loved love. No, I don't want to. I want to be clear. I read her book and I love it. It's very important.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm not saying I'm not up for that story, but just, you know, this.

[B]

Is a different version of her.

[A]

It's a different side of Malala, which was a really fun side.

[B]

It was great. It was great.

[A]

She's a rascal.

[B]

I know. She's so fun.

[A]

She's a playful rascal. She's an education activist. She's the youngest ever Nobel laureate, best selling author and award winning film producer. Her books are I Am Malala, We Are Displaced, Malala's Magic Pencil, and now her memoir, Finding My Way, which is really from the moment we all kind of knew her to her trying to attempt to have a normal college life.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In England.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes. It's really cute. Falling in love.

[B]

Ah, it's really special.

[A]

Please enjoy Malala Yousafzai. This episode of Armchair Expert is presented by Apple Pay. You know, holiday shopping can be a hassle, but Apple Pay makes it so much easier. Whether you're shopping online or in store, look for the Apple Pay button or contact checklist symbol at checkout. No more digging for your wallet or filling out long online checkout forms. It works at millions of places, including stores, websites and apps. This means you can spend less time at checkout and more time finding the perfect gifts. Pay the Apple way terms apply. We are supported by Allstate. You know what's smart? Checking Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds on car insurance. You know what's not smart? Not checking your phone's volume before blasting your morning pump up playlist in the office break room. Or not checking that your laptop camera's off before joining the meeting in your robe or something. I'm a little too familiar with not checking your grocery list before heading to the store and realizing you bought everything except what you needed. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, condition and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. This episode is brought to you by Audible. Love can take many forms. Sometimes it's a chance encounter at a gas station that turns into a ten year relationship. Other times it's texting someone you up and accidentally falling in love. Audible's collection of romance audiobooks has it all. Think relatable situationships, historical scandals, forbidden magic, and yes, plenty of stories that are headphones only. Wink, wink. Here are modern rom coms from authors like Leanne Slade and Emily Henry, the latest romantasy series from Sarah J. Maas and Lauren Roberts, Regency favorites like Pride and Prejudice, plus all the steamy stuff. Whether it's a duke, a billionaire, or a winged lord from the Night Court, your first great love story is free when you sign up for a 30 day [e-mail]. dax.

[C]

He's an upchurcher. He's an upchurcher. I'm actually so excited to be here.

[A]

No, you're not.

[C]

Yes, I am.

[A]

You are not. You hate press. You're so sick of it.

[B]

We're so excited to have you.

[A]

Are you two old friends, you and Hannah?

[C]

Technically, yes. Technically Joined Malala Fund many, many years ago. She helped me with my work outside Malala Fund as well.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Production company. Then she left me.

[A]

Oh, no.

[C]

Why did she do that exactly?

[B]

To start a podcast with your husband. Because I can relate.

[C]

But she's helping me on this stage.

[A]

Okay, great. How long is this little tour you're on right now? It's gotta be extensive, I'd imagine for a book.

[C]

I have many things to do, so I'm here to do some press in la. Then I go to New York, do more press, prep for the launch. So the launch will be in New York on the 21st. The book will be out everywhere.

[A]

It'll already be out. Yeah.

[C]

And then I begin my book tour.

[B]

Yeah. Wow.

[C]

Okay. But then I come back, I go to every city.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Every day.

[A]

Oh, I wrote down way too many notes for you. I'm now realizing we never have four pages. This is too many. I wrote down. Oh, my God, is there a fifth? Okay, already a record this might be a record. So you already talked to Monica one time? Yes.

[C]

Yes, I did.

[B]

Kristin and I. But that was Zoom, and I don't count that.

[C]

I agree. I want to meet Kristen.

[A]

Oh, she's in the backyard when you're done.

[C]

We have met, but we haven't met. Right.

[A]

We have that with a lot of people in Covid.

[B]

We did all Zooms, and now we decided none of those count.

[A]

They kind of don't count. And we'll have someone on who we had on. On Zoom. And when they come, we're like, this.

[B]

Is the first time the vibes in person, they're meaningful.

[C]

But I love your podcast. I'm so excited to be here.

[A]

Oh, good.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I loved your book.

[C]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

I loved it so much, and I cried this morning. Some of those texts between you and.

[C]

Asur are, do you think I was a bit mean to him?

[B]

No.

[A]

There's a difference between annoying and mean. Do I think you were annoying sometimes because you didn't know how to handle a new love?

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

New first love. I mean, I never thought I would actually fall in love.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you were probably having to integrate that yourself. That's a lot to process.

[A]

Now, I don't know if you guys talked about it the first time you met, but there's some passages in your book. I wrote them out in their entirety because I'm like, this is Monica's book. She wrote this book.

[C]

Really?

[A]

Oh, wait till you hear some of the zingers in here. There's a lot of overlap.

[C]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

I can't wait.

[C]

How can we be so similar? What's your star sign?

[B]

Virgo.

[C]

What are you? I'm Cancer. My husband is a Virgo.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Which you read were great lovemates.

[B]

Those go well together. Kristen is a Cancer. Yeah. And she's a love mate of mine.

[A]

Two of my soulmates are cancers.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Kristin. Okay, so. Rightly so. This book is about another chapter in your life entirely. But unfortunately, I'm gonna have to bring people up to speed a little bit, because I think there is some foundation that needs to be laid.

[C]

I have so much in my life. You do?

[A]

Yes, you do. And I only know. Look, my daughters have your children's book. I've read it to them out loud, so that's kind of my knowledge of everything that happened. And then, of course, I was alive when all this went down, so I didn't miss it in the media. Anything post that I kind of don't know about? And even Just this notion that you end up in, like, a high school in the UK with the snap of a finger is really kind of equally bizarre. But so for the folks that don't know, and I think maybe a couple of the details that people might not have already known, I don't think I knew until I read your book, is you were already kind of a political activist before any of this happened. You were blogging at 10 years old.

[C]

Yeah, I became an activist at age 10. I blogged for the BBC at age 11, and I volunteered to be in the New York Times documentary when schools were closed by the Taliban. Again, I was only 11.

[A]

Yeah, you were kind of already famous before this other thing. I guess I stupidly thought, oh, this is when she got a lot of attention.

[C]

I was known in Pakistan and people had read my story. But I do think that the recognition that I received after getting attacked was very different than the recognition I had received before.

[A]

Yeah, exponential.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

But so for the folks who don't know that little chapter, your father was an educator and was a big proponent of girls being in school. You were in Swat, this area of.

[C]

Pakistan, a very beautiful valley in the north of Pakistan. And we had a pretty normal life until this extremist militant group took over our valley and the Taliban started imposing restrictions on women and girls, including a ban on girls education. It affected my education directly. It affected the education of all of my female friends because girls could no longer go to school. They were punished if they dared to even learn. And it was very scary, dark time. And that's when my journey of activism began. It's not like I was passionate about doing something for my community from a very early age. But circumstances changed. So the way I became an activist was simply because I was responding to this new reality where I could not have a future without an education. And I knew I have no choice but to speak out.

[B]

Yeah, it wasn't like you sought out to be an activist. You just sought out to stay in school.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

To speak up for yourself.

[C]

It's not that I was researching different topics and figuring out what am I more passionate about. Let me pick this issue. It was about our future. And we know that girls in our communities, especially in patriarchal societies, have very little opportunities if they do not get the complete education. They are restricted in exploring different careers. They cannot make a living for themselves. So many girls are forced into marriages.

[A]

Well, it'd be right to say they're dependent on whatever the patriarch in their life tells them exists on planet Earth.

[C]

It's your dad or your brother, and then it's the husband. And you just pray you find a kind man so then you could at least have a life in dignity. And it's not that of, like, violence and oppression. It's just a simple wish like that. I actually realized that when I started speaking to my mom more. My mom and I have struggled a bit to be friends.

[A]

It's comfortingly universal.

[C]

Oh, yeah. Especially, like, till you make it to your 20s. It's a really difficult phase because I was just told off by my mom for everything. What I wear, how I dress, what I say. For her, the concern was always about what would our community in Pakistan say? She was just worried about controversies. And I used to argue with her all the time, but later on, I realized that my mom was just simply trying to protect me.

[A]

She was scared.

[C]

She was scared because she had seen it in her lifetime how girls were punished for simply daring to wear what they wanted. There was a story of a girl talking to a boy on phone. The next thing you hear is that she has been killed in the name of honor. She has been poisoned. She has been beaten up.

[A]

Well, you as a little girl, were slapped by a cousin in the street because he saw you doing what I.

[C]

Was in the river and, you know, your clothes get wet and then they stick to you. Yeah, stick to you. I had gone with some boys, just the local cousin's little boys, and he just slapped me. He said, why would you go? I think for him it was just the fact that girls, as soon as they have the identity of being a woman, they need to be restricted to the followers of their houses. But I must say that cousin thinks very differently now, and he's a big advocate.

[B]

That's good.

[C]

But, you know, that was once a time.

[A]

These things happen when you're little that form your worldview. And what you learned in that moment was, oh, an older male thinks I'm bringing shame to the family, has the authority and the right to smack me across the face in public.

[C]

It was scary.

[A]

That introduces you to what world you're living in. You're like, okay, this is life on planet Earth for me.

[C]

But I think my story is an exception simply because my dad was very supportive.

[B]

Why was he. What about him was so different?

[C]

He was so passionate about his own education. He saw his five sisters have completely different lives than him. They never went to school while he did so. He knew if you are born a girl, it just means you do not have the same life as a boy. So he wanted to change that. And he made a commitment that he would want a different life for his daughter. He didn't stop me from speaking out while other men, fathers, actually stopped girls in our school who were stepping forward the same way as me to speak out. And even if, like a cousin or somebody tried to say something about me being in media or me speaking out or being in public, my dad just would remind them that they mind their own business.

[B]

Wow, you just got lucky. He just had a great personality.

[C]

And we need male allies. We need them to stand up with us.

[A]

And when we have compassion for your mom reading the book, I want to give her Mel Robbins book. Let them. That's what I want to give her. That's what she needs to read. Let them talk. It's okay. Let them all think what they're going to. Well, I was going to say your father had the freedom, really, that your mom didn't have in a lot of ways, so he could have the position of, yeah, mind your own business. That wasn't really a luxury your mom had. So it's kind of quite understandable why she has so much more fear.

[C]

100%. If a man is seen as an advocate for women, people celebrate him. It's a lot easier. It's a different story when we are praising a man. It's a very different story when we talk about women or mothers and how they are becoming allies of the next generation of women and girls. I feel like their initial instinct is to actually protect us, to keep us safe. For my mom, it was a whole different world to be able to advocate and change the perspectives and bring in safety. For her, the first thought was, let's do everything so that none of these horrible things happen. And if it means you obey the expected dress code or if you just follow the customs, let's just do that. Because in the end, what's more important is your safety and just simply focus on your education. But do not cause any trouble.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Do it quietly and do what you need to do. And in her defense, the absolute worst nightmare for a parent would be exactly what happened to you. So you got shot on a bus.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm sure she was like, we just barely avoided the ultimate heartbreak in life.

[B]

Let's like, I knew this would happen.

[A]

I know we care about these things, but not as much as I care about you being alive. I very much understand where she's coming from.

[C]

Yeah. After the attack, when I moved to a different country, we were now settled in the uk. A new culture.

[A]

What is it? Eddington?

[C]

No, Birmingham Birmingham.

[A]

That's so simple.

[C]

Not the Alabama one. Birmingham. Not Birmingham. Birmingham.

[A]

Birmingham.

[C]

Birmingham.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, right here. G H A M. Okay. It's already a really unique life. You are on the BBC. A doc was made about you. You're reporting as the Taliban is invading your town. All that's crazy. Now, even if none of that happened, another crazy thing would be to come out of a coma, having been raised in Pakistan, and then be in Birmingham, uk. Do you remember how foreign that all felt to you?

[C]

Yes. It was a complete shock to wake up in a different country, surrounded by people who were speaking a different language. I was very, very unfamiliar. And of course I was grateful that I woke up and I finally opened my eyes that I was alive. I was in this induced coma for a week, and all I remembered was this last day of my school in Pakistan. And then I have these mixed memories and these visuals and pictures of attacks happening again and again. And I'm like stuck in this induced coma where I just cannot wake up. I feel like, am I dead? Am I alive? But the moment I woke up, I was so grateful. But at the same time, I was just figuring out who has brought me here. Where are my parents? When will I recover? When will I be able to get back to my old, normal life?

[A]

Also, when are you learning that you are now a world figure?

[C]

Weeks later.

[B]

How old were you again?

[C]

15. I had no idea. I just thought nobody even knew. So I had this tube in my neck initially, so I could not speak. So I had to write everything down. And because my vision was so blurry, I could not even write well. So every time I would just ask the nurses and doctors, where's my father? I want to meet my family. And then the second thing I would write is, who's going to pay for my hospital?

[A]

Sure, sure, sure. It looks expensive. I'm sure.

[C]

I was just so worried. I said, do I have to go and get a job or something? But my family arrived 10 days later. When they joined, that was the first time I actually cried. Of course, that's amazing because you're going through a trauma. You don't even know what a normal emotion is. If you're going through so much pain that you cannot even cry. Like, how do I feel? Become that normal person that I was.

[A]

You're disassociated, right? You're out of your body, and almost the crying is you re entering your body.

[C]

So I saw my family. That's the first time I cried. And even then I thought, as soon as I'm discharged, From the hospital, I'll be able to go back to Pakistan. But things changed really quickly. I was working on these different projects that I was approached with. Starting Malala Fund, writing my book, giving my first speech at the un, and then also starting a new school locally. They said, you know, we cannot let your time be wasted, so you have to get back into your education. I thought this was all temporary, but I didn't realize. Before I knew it, it had been a long time when I went back to Pakistan again, but this was like a whole new pathway that my life was taking. And I was like, where is this going? Where is my old life and where am I now?

[A]

Now I find this to be the most interesting part because it's so human. So yet you start this school in England and it's a disaster. Right?

[C]

I loved that school, by the way. But what was really challenging for me was making friends. Yeah, I was a completely different person when I was in Pakistan.

[A]

You're popular and outgoing, mischievous.

[C]

I was in every competition. Debate, singing, playing cricket. Being a kid, I had so many friends now at this new school, I felt like a stranger. I just thought nobody could ever know me. I could not be that old self of mine. I would try to have a conversation with people. You start and it dies. It's such a stressful moment. You know, you're like, I hope somebody picks up this topic. And it could be a funny thing. And it just fell flat. It did, yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You had so much shit working against you. You're from another country. I can't imagine your English was bulletproof at that point.

[C]

I mean, it was more like textbook English. Textbook English is very different than what people actually speak.

[A]

You have the cultural thing, you know, that you're famous, which is an awkward thing. You've also just been shot in the face, so you're not like feeling 100%.

[C]

I became very self conscious. We all look at each other and we all just think sometimes, what is that person actually looking at right now?

[A]

Yes, of course.

[C]

And usually they're not, but we just think that way. But I think at school, yes, I was very self conscious and I was thinking about the facial nerve damage on the left side because of the bullet. I just was hesitating even to smile because I now had, like a crooked smile.

[A]

Malala. When I had acne, I didn't want to go to school when if I had pimples, I would not interact with anyone.

[B]

Those days, it's hard enough and you have to sort of carry the weight. People are looking to you to be like the voice of activism. And you're 15 and you're in a new place and people are expecting wisdom from you. That's too much.

[C]

I know.

[A]

Well, thank God you were kind of delivering on that front because it's a mess at high school. You're rising to the occasion of the political stuff and making the speeches at un. You're crushing that part of your life.

[C]

I just thought maybe at 15, this is where I'm supposed to be at these UN conferences, bilateral meetings with world leaders advocating for girls education, running a foundation. I just thought maybe this is how my life is supposed to look, like.

[A]

I won't get this other thing.

[C]

And to be honest, yes, I wanted all of it. I wanted to be a normal student at the same time, to have friends and to be able to express myself, to try new things. But somehow I thought that maybe because I'm supposed to live this activist life, it means sacrificing. It's one or the other. Of course I'm sad and lonely and. But I thought, okay, this is how it's supposed to be.

[A]

You did the cutest things to. You enlisted on field day to run the 200 meter dash and came in last.

[C]

I know.

[A]

You did so many things. I know. It makes me love you so much.

[B]

When this is going on and you're struggling at school. I think a lot of American kids, they would come home and tell their parents, and I feel left out. And did you feel like you could do that?

[C]

No. I think when you are supposed to be this strong, brave, courageous girl, you feel you cannot complain about not having friends or crying alone in the bathroom to get over this or feel like, oh, I wish more people could talk to me in the school dining hall. I never really shared it with my parents. I would just go home and talk to my best friend in Pakistan. I would ask her about everything that was happening in our neighborhood with our friends and how her studies were going and just try to, like, reconnect with my old life. And I knew that's just not a reality. I'm not there. But I used to just imagine myself being there and imagine what life would have been like if I were there. So deep inside I wanted to make friends and just know who. Is that true, Malal? And what would my life have looked like if none of these things had happened? So the day when I saw most of the students at my school talk to me was the day when I heard the news about the Nobel Peace Prize. So I had gone to school and I Was not expected.

[A]

I was 17.

[C]

I was 17. Yes. I was in my chemistry class. The school's deputy head teacher walks in and calls me outside and tells me that I have won the Nobel Peace Prize.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

And I'm like, wait, what? And I'm like, oh, thank you.

[A]

Thank you. Yeah, thank you, thank you.

[C]

But I actually went back to my class. I finished my whole school day in.

[A]

Hopes that people might engage with you and show interest.

[C]

Whole faces were looking at me that day. When you. When you feel noticed.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

But the day after, it was just back to normal. Everybody's looking the other way.

[A]

They were all going to McDonald's and you weren't.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, man, what a bizarre. You're winning the Nobel Prize Peace Prize, and you're not getting invited to McDonald's. This is too much.

[A]

I loved your question, Monica, about asking mom and dad. And I'm wondering, do you think part of you did not want to share that with them because you were afraid you had already put them through so much?

[C]

My parents do worry a lot. They freak out.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And for them, it's just like, how could you be sad? Don't be sad. Yes, exactly. I'm like, help me, please.

[A]

This is where Monica really knows.

[C]

This happened many, many times. I mean, I have gone to them several or try to signal something. Initially, I'm, like, testing it. I'm like, what if something like this. They're like, why would this even happen? My dad came up to my room and he just saw I was really stressed and worried. I was worried about some work thing that was going on. And my dad was like, no, no. Like, we can't see you sad. You should be happy. And I was like, dad, can you respect my right to all of these emotions, whether that be happiness and sadness and grumpiness? I know you want me to be happy, and I understand it, but that does not mean I suppress every emotion. You can't, because I have to make you guys happy. So he's like, when you are happy, we are happy.

[B]

And I'm like, that's too much pressure.

[C]

That's a lot of pressure.

[A]

Also, you have to go out on the road. You're still at all the conferences and doing all that stuff. And it's like, even more. Do you need when you get home to be able to be the scared, lonely kid because you're putting on a brave face everywhere else.

[B]

They have to be the landing spot.

[A]

But culturally, I think this is very. It's very hard, subcontinental of you guys?

[B]

Yeah, my dad too. He's come a long way. He tries. He'll be like, tell me what's going on. And I can see the panic. Before I've even said anything, he's so panicked. And then it's like, well, I can't tell you because you're gonna get so stressed out, and then that's gonna stress me out, so let's just not do any of this. And then you don't have anyone. And then sometimes my dad will be like, you need to know you can talk to us. And I'm like, well, that's not the way to say it, for one, but I understand it. Because they grew up in such a different environment and with a lot more struggle. They want their kids just to be happy.

[C]

That's it. Yeah. And I fully understand that parents want their kids to know that their happiness is everything to them. But we also want our parents to know that we go through many emotions and sometimes it's just some space. That's all we need. It's listening. It's just you being there. But we don't have to fix it. Allow us to go through the emotion, to process it.

[A]

Well, most importantly, that I would be lovable even if I'm very unhappy. Can I have my whole array of emotions and you still love me because that's what you want to hear.

[B]

It's way too much pressure on a child, really, at any age to take on a grownup's emotional state. Regulating their emotions by yours is just not okay.

[C]

The other thing which I realized was that I had taken this adult role from such an early age. I mean, like, I was looking after my family. All of a sudden the roles had switched completely. My dad, mom, everybody had to move to a new country. So I was doing all of these things, from signing a book to a documentary to giving speeches so that I can make an income. And this has been forever part of my life to help my family and our relatives and people who need support from us in Pakistan. So there's always been that pressure as well. And I think that also somehow affected me because I thought, I cannot be that child anymore. I have to be acting like an adult.

[B]

I'm the grown up here.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

This is all on my shoulders. You win cash for the Nobel Prize, they give you money.

[C]

Yeah, it comes with a prize.

[A]

Oh, really? They give you some around town money.

[C]

I think it's usually like a million euros.

[A]

Oh, really?

[C]

The year I won had two winners.

[A]

Oh, this is bullshit. They need to double the.

[C]

It's okay. I know they should.

[B]

Don't say it's okay.

[A]

It's not a it's okay then. You can't even root for the person. You want to be able to be excited for them, but not if you're giving them half your money.

[C]

But the school that I support in my parents village in the north of Pakistan started with the help of the Nobel Peace Prize money.

[A]

Oh, it did? That was the seed money.

[C]

That's when I started it. And in my speech I said, I want to build a school there because right now there's no high school for girls. I want to start the first one. We need to be ambitious about bringing change in the world. But let's start from home. If we can make it happen there, there's hope that we can make it happen elsewhere. It's one of the most challenging areas. It's in the north of Pakistan, up in the mountains and the literacy rate is so low and hardly any woman, any girl had actually graduated. There was no high school for girls, but we started it, I think seven, eight years ago. And now that school is complete and this year the first class graduated and I met them for the first time.

[A]

How great is that?

[C]

I went to Pakistan. It was amazing. And I share this story in the book as well. It's really, really important to me because seeing how the lives of these girls have changed because of education is the most rewarding feeling. It's just hope for the whole community. I was just looking around, like the trees, the mountains, the river, everything's sort of like the same. But one thing that was different in the whole village was the school. And I thought that the school had given hope for the community.

[B]

Incredible.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, so your book really is a coming of age story of you entering Oxford. And as we've already set up, you know, it didn't go well in high school. And you just have the sweetest, singular desire. Like, I'm going to Oxford and I am going to make friends. And it's so endearing and sweet. You know Mindy Kaling, I imagine.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. So I text her yesterday, like, oh my God, I just read Malala's new book and this is a show you would make. It's so cute.

[C]

I have watched all her shows. Never have I ever. And the college.

[A]

Yeah, what is it? Girls like sex or something Sexy college.

[C]

No, I mean the title is a bit long, but not what you said.

[B]

Exec Lives of College. Yes, I got her.

[A]

Okay, so you arrive at Oxford and you get a dorm and then you decide to just kind of hit the sidewalk and start walking around, and you're sweetly taking charge. You're just introducing yourself to people, and you meet this cute girl who at first is taken back. Her name is Cora. Immediately you're like, oh, great, we've got one friend. And then you go to the freshers fair and just tell Monica what you do at this freshers fair. This is such a comedy set piece.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, you sign up for these different clubs and societies, like rowing and jumping, running, anything you can think of. There's, like a club for everything. Jazz club, music, languages, anything. So I signed up for a few clubs, including rowing. I had never done it, and I couldn't swim. I don't know why I signed up, but I did it anyway.

[A]

She signed up for everything. She left this fair, Monica.

[C]

I was like, I want to make friends. I should be everywhere, but that's such.

[B]

A smart thing to do. I want to make friends. I got to sign up. I got to get myself out there.

[C]

No, it was like real fomo. I want to be everywhere in this college life. There's the Oxford Union, so. Which is like this famous debating society at Oxford. I was signing up for that to get membership, and then there was this big poster behind, and they had photos of all of these famous speakers who had previously spoken there before. Oh, boy. I'm looking at all of these famous names and then I see my photo and I'm like, I remember I spoke here before.

[B]

Oh, my.

[A]

I was like, so a little feeding frenzy. Some person wants a picture, then 10 people want a picture.

[C]

Like, oh, wait a second, is that you? People started asking for photos, but my friend who I had just met.

[A]

Yeah, your new best friend.

[C]

Best friend, yes. She was supporting me and she took some photos, and I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. I felt so embarrassed. You know, I just do not want it to be awkward. I want my friends not to think like they're here to take photos for me. She was just so chill about it, and quickly. We were talking about next lectures and essays, and I was like, I love it. I know that I'm meeting the right people.

[A]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. This message is brought to you by Apple Pay. Bonnie. I can't believe it's almost the holidays. You know what that means, right?

[B]

I sure do. My annual holiday gift guide.

[A]

Yes. I love when you break out your gift suggestion.

[B]

You're a good steward of my. My holiday gift guide.

[A]

I'm entirely reliant on it.

[B]

Well, I like doing It I like picking out the perfect present. Like one of my more recent ones.

[C]

This.

[B]

I'll give it to you now, ahead of time.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

For your coffee lovers. Okay. There's an amazing small batch roaster downtown.

[A]

The ones with those Ethiopian beans I'm obsessed with.

[B]

Yes. And they take Apple Pay right at the counter, which is so easy. So you just double click the side button on my iPhone, authenticate with face id, tap and pay. That easy.

[A]

What about for people who don't live locally?

[B]

Well, that's where the real fun starts. I found this artist who makes these customers star maps. It shows the night sky from any special date. So you could do an anniversary or a birthday.

[A]

Huh. That sounds cool. But doesn't all this online shopping get tedious with the different websites?

[B]

Not at all. When I check out online, I click the Apple Pay button, authenticate on my Apple device, and done. It's so easy. No lengthy checkout forms required.

[A]

Keep the suggestions coming. What else you got?

[B]

Okay. Book lovers. Ding, ding, ding. I personally love supporting local books bookstores. They're also just so fun. And you can go to their website. And then for crafty friends, there are these amazing do it yourself kits.

[A]

Okay. You really do have a gift for, well, gifts.

[B]

Thank you. Whether I'm shopping in person or online, Apple Pay works at a million places. It makes it so much easier to focus on finding those perfect, thoughtful presents.

[A]

Instead of wasting time typing in card numbers. Which I cannot stand.

[B]

Exactly. Same more time for holiday magic, less time for payment hassle.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Home, bath, kitchen, you name it, you can get it. It is a great place for gifts.

[B]

I ordered some sheets, some really, really amazing sheets. They're also so cute. They. They're striped. I love quints, and I feel like it's a hack, honestly. It's like the quality is so good and it's so reasonable.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

I love this. It's really nice that there's an option out there for women who are dealing with low desire and I like that. Addy's non hormonal and created by a woman for women. Addy is helping women feel like themselves again and that's really important.

[A]

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[B]

I love my therapist so much. I saw her twice last week after my personal tragedy. She was so helpful in helping me process everything.

[A]

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[B]

She picked out your clothes, she laid.

[A]

Out your clothes, right? This is what you're going to wear.

[C]

So my mom prefers traditional Pakistani clothes and I think for her it's like anything. Jeans, top, any of these bland colors are just too boring. She's like, why would anybody wear that? Why would you not wear the traditional colorful clothes? But it's also representing the culture and that's what you are expected to wear. So I was looking at the bags she had packed for me for college and I was like, mom, if I wear this, I will be instantly recognized as the public figure. Malala.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

I just want to like mix in the students and not stand out.

[A]

Blend in.

[C]

College girl, mom and I want to wear college outfit. Like that's the dress code there. She would put one dress. I'll remove it.

[A]

And also tell Monica what you Google.

[C]

Oh, I googled Selena Gomez Casual Wear.

[A]

2017 and what to Wear to College 2017. Googled it because she had never worn anything but these.

[B]

What did it tell you?

[C]

What did she Cardigan tight jeans. Oh, yeah, probably skinny Jeans, necklaces.

[A]

Selena Gomez casual. Don't you feel like you would do this, Monica? You would actually.

[B]

That's really funny that you bring that up, because I think Taylor Swift just went on Fallon and talked about how at Selena's wedding, which was last weekend, I guess.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Taylor gave a speech, and she said she made fun of the way they dressed back then when they were first friends, which is probably around this time. You were wearing what they were wearing, adding more to the debate. Exactly. Taylor would have razzed you.

[A]

Okay, so you got your 2017 college clothes. You've met Cora, and then gracefully. And luckily, you meet Hen. Tell us about hen.

[C]

Hen is such a jolly, funny, entertaining character.

[A]

She's from Zimbabwe.

[C]

Yes. She just talks forever. Like, you cannot stop her. I loved her. I just. I was like, wow. I don't even have to do anything. I just have to sit and listen to her.

[A]

Yeah, she's got it.

[C]

She wanted to try new things and explore things and take photos. And I just love that I was her photographer. I would be just taking her photos all the time. We are really good friends.

[A]

I mean, isn't this a 90s college movie where, like, you meet the outgoing girl. She's like, I'm gonna take you under my wing.

[B]

Are you still friends with Korra?

[C]

I'm friends with everybody.

[B]

Oh, good, good. I love this.

[C]

And I met really interesting people. I met a lot of Pakistani friends. I met some friends who were very supportive at times and were also a bit mean at times.

[A]

Yes. This is your girlfriend, Aneesa?

[C]

Yeah. How is she mean? She's mean.

[A]

She's, like, making fun of how you look, what you're wearing.

[C]

I remember there was this mug. You put sugar in it, and then you stir it to make tea. Stirring it. She was like, that's not how you do it. You do it, like, back and forth, like, this is the more posh way. I was like, wait a sec. What? Anyway, I was like, okay, I'll just stir it this way, like the way the queen does it.

[A]

You should have been like, bitch, we invented tea. What are you talking about?

[B]

Also, hey, I have a Nobel Prize, so I would be throwing that into everyone's face.

[A]

Yeah, but you're, like, starting to play Scrabble. It's off to a really great start.

[C]

Amazing start.

[A]

You're not a great student. And I like this. I like this because you're the person.

[C]

Who'S praising me for not being a good student.

[A]

I like this because our association with you is wise beyond her years. Completely poised. Can Somehow write the speech, deliver the speech. We're thinking you're gonna go there, and this is gonna be a cakewalk. And what I love is you're kind of lazy. You're there to make friends, there to be social. Yeah. And it was shocking to you as well.

[C]

If I wanted to do incredibly well academically, I had to stay in the library for seven, eight hours a day. I was like, why would I do that? I want to be with my friends right now. I had signed up for every society. There were these gatherings and parties, like a Diwali ball, an Eid party and a biryani event, like anything you could think of. I just wanted to be everywhere.

[A]

I'm so proud of you for making that decision, because I think you are receiving so much praise for being adult and being a good little soldier and doing everything you were supposed to do to let go of that praise. You would have been most praised to go there and finish top of your class.

[C]

You know, this is what my dad was expecting. My dad was sort of mentioning now and then, like, how are you doing? And do you think what grades you will get? Or are you going to run for the president of the Oxford Union? And I said, like, dad, I don't think I'm here for any of those things. I am here to actually just find out who I am. As a young woman, I was living my late teenage. Very, very late in my 20s. That's how I see it. And it was the first time that I was not with my parents. I was living on my own. I did not have my work people around me. I was managing my calendar myself poorly, really poorly. But, you know, when you feel like you are free to explore whatever you want. And I said, I may not get this opportunity again. I knew that I could go to these libraries anytime in my life. I could reopen these books.

[A]

Oh, you did it right.

[C]

Friends in your early 20s is such a blessing. Oh, it's amazing. And I'm so glad I met these people because they help you grow. They help you learn more about yourself and who you become. I am who I am today because of these friends.

[A]

They took her to McDonald's.

[B]

Finally.

[C]

You guys came to McDonald's. I learned so much, you know, like, if I were studying, would I have ever learned about how to order?

[A]

Brianny's chaws are my ass. We need to know what's on a Big Mac. What's in those nuggets we don't eat. What's cute is, this is so fun. These girlfriends, they took care of her. They each decided to get her their favorite item.

[B]

Oh, fun.

[A]

So you were at McDonald's just completely surrounded by nuggets and Big Macs.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

Did you like it?

[C]

I mean, the caramel frappe. Of course.

[A]

Okay, that one's the one that got you. Tell us about Turek. Tarek.

[C]

Tarek. Tariq. I mean, doesn't matter.

[A]

Okay. And this is the part I've written down. This is textbook Monica here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Chasing a guy who's unavailable. Oh, have you ever heard of it?

[B]

Just my whole life.

[C]

I mean, I'm just describing my story. I'm not saying anything about you. This mysterious character, he was gorgeous. He was a bad boy. He was saying less, and I was like, I want to know what he wants to tell me. He had nothing to share, actually.

[A]

But rumored to be a drug dealer. He's from Iraq.

[C]

That's what my friends used to say. And I refuse to believe that. I was like, he's really struggling with the college pressure and somebody needs to help him out. Many times he came to my room and he was hungry, so I was, okay, you know, there's some biscuits and bananas. He would just eat the bananas and the biscuits and then, like, go back. I know. And I saw him in college. He was sitting on this bench which had a clear sign of no smoking. So he's smoking and he's reading a book. And I'm like, excuse me. It says no smoking. And he's like, oh, I'm dyslexic.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

I was like, oh, okay. Then later on, I was questioning myself, like, he was reading a book.

[B]

What is smoking have to do with smoking?

[A]

He probably didn't have the word smoking in his book. That's why he was able to read it. He just couldn't read the word smoking.

[C]

That's when you know you have a crush because you're just so nervous in.

[B]

Front of them, you'll do anything.

[C]

I know. If they say they're reading a book and they're dyslexic, I don't know. You'll just believe that. Whatever that is. Or if they say nobody understands them. I was like, yeah, nobody gets it. You're going through a lot. Let me help you.

[A]

And Tariq was like a wunderkind when he was young. But then he was in Year six at Oxford. He couldn't get his shit together.

[B]

Oh, I know. But you were like, because he's struggling in English, he's struggling.

[C]

Nobody is there to help him. Let me help him. And my friends told me Off. They were like, what are you doing?

[A]

The girl that was kind of catty at times, she was the real talk express. She's like, you're fucking delusional. This guy doesn't like you.

[C]

I had conversations, she would just tell me directly. She said, I don't care if I sound rude or not. But she said, you need to get your life together. You cannot go and like fix this guy's life. Don't you see it?

[B]

But it's hard for anyone at that age if they have a crush on someone to be self actualized enough to be like, no, he's not good for me. But also you have had experience with of changing the world.

[C]

Well, the reason that I was enjoying this crush scenario was because he was unavailable. He was not even responding. And for me it was just one sided love that I was experiencing. And I was so insecure about my looks because of the damage of my facial nerve on the left side. And I just thought this love life and all of these things are not going to be part of my life. And I thought maybe the closest that I can come to it is this imaginary relationship that I have right now.

[A]

This is what I wrote down. I want to read it verbatim if I could. Walking away from her room, I felt strange. Like the spell that had brought me there was broken. I'd failed in my mission to help Tarek and Anissa thought I was a fool for trying. She was right. He had not asked for my help and didn't accept it when I offered. So why was I doing this? Because I enjoyed crafting elaborate narratives around our brief interactions. I could have snapped myself out of the delusion at any time, but I didn't want to. When Tarek disappeared, for days I would sit on my bed and listen to Bollywood duets, imagining the two of us embroiled in an epic love story. Then he'd show up again without explanation, eat my food and leave. He didn't want to be close to me, didn't ask about my friends or weekend plans. And that never bothered me because I preferred the fantasy in my head where everything was both thrilling and safe. Obsessing over an unapproachable boy was just another way of avoiding rejection and staying single. Filling my need for connection with one sided romance.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Sorry I had to read that so down. That's Monica in high school.

[B]

That's me now. That's me still. Hopefully we'll get to is how you got over that because those are big feelings.

[C]

They're so safe.

[B]

I bet if he did start to like you, you would have been like, no, I don't want that. That used to happen to me a lot.

[A]

It's scary.

[C]

It's scary when it's. It feels more real. Part of that actually did happen to me when I actually started seeing my now husband, Aasar. It felt more and more real that this guy is real. The feelings are real. I am actually going through these emotions, and it means I have to make decisions about my future with this person. Do I want us to be together or not? That changes you as a person. Like, I felt different when I made that decision. But initially, with these crushing or, like, these relationships in my imagination, it was fun because I was like, what if it's just these scenarios that you are, like, imagining, and that's how you pass your day?

[A]

You can't get hurt in them because they're not real. But when it's real, all of a sudden, we can get hurt. And now a whole nother batch of thoughts and emotions enter.

[C]

Yeah, I actually did not want to be in a relationship, to be honest, because I just thought culturally for many other reasons. I thought it was not for me. And I just never thought somebody would actually love me because of my insecurities. So many reasons for why. I just thought it was never gonna be the story of my life. For me, it was this reality that it's not gonna happen. I would not do it because of the culture and all of that. But also that I don't think anybody's gonna love me or I'm gonna find a person.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Was that so confusing? Because also, the world is telling you they love you. You're being praised. You're on covers of time. I assume.

[A]

Hanging out with Obama.

[B]

Exactly. Ostensibly, the world is like, malala, we love you. But then internally, you're like, but that's not real. And no one will really love me.

[C]

Even this recognition that you receive or the way people imagine that you are in these circles and you are hanging out with some prime ministers and presidents every day, or you are meeting famous celebrities. That's not a true picture of my life. Like, I'm spending most of my time with my family or my college friends and not with my husband. Like, that's just a more true picture of my life, my everyday life. I'm meeting our activists and the projects that we support. So it's like a mix of that. But people have these perceptions.

[A]

You're probably a victim of a lot of projection for us to know that a little girl got shot on a bus over wanting to go to school is so terrible that the only way it's palatable is she's fine and she's turned it into this great thing and she's won the Nobel Peace. So it's okay. I can handle this. We can live with it. Yes, I need you to be this. Because it's way too uncomfortable for me to think a little girl got shot. So I think you probably were just this blank canvas that people just projected onto you what they wanted you to be so they could feel better.

[C]

It's really hard to process the response from people because I come across all sorts of reactions. Even if we deny it, I think they do affect us in one way or another. I think in the middle of it, I just did not give myself enough time to know what I wanted. Life was moving so fast that I thought, okay, this is what's expected of me and I'm supposed to live this way. It's work, it's being an advocate that I'm supposed to know everything when I'm still reading a biology textbook, learning about cells, or I have to do an essay for my English subject or solve some math problems that I somehow need to be able to address policymakers about their budgets for girls education. And I need to have a correct opinion about every political issue out there. And I sort of accepted. I said, yeah, if you are applauded and if you are recognized, then somehow you need to know everything and you need to know it the right way. It's a lot of pressure, you know, you are not being yourself anymore. You cannot make a mistake. You are being scrutinized for it. And it still happens, even now. There are so many things that I actually don't know. I have principles in life that I follow. For me, the most important thing is promoting peace, promoting compassion. It's creating equal opportunities for girls through education, and it's ensuring that we actually listen to each other and bring more harmony and stand against oppression and violence and wars. I sort of know these things. And I also know that whoever it happens to, we have to stand with them in whatever part of the world it's happening, we have to stand up to that. But it's not that I have to, like, know the history and the background of every political issue.

[A]

But I bet it's not enough for people. I bet. Bet you have that. But they now want you to be an environmentalist and they want you to be nine other issues that they care a lot about because they are in alignment with you on this thing. I bet you're now feeling the pressure of getting sucked into all these other political arenas, that maybe isn't your passion.

[C]

Yeah. The way now I look into it is I see from the perspective of girls and I related to the issue of girls education. So, for example, climate change. I don't know everything about this climate change topic, but what I do know is that climate related events are affecting girls education. Girls education is actually one of the top solutions to all things, including climate change. So I think about it that way. Now I'm like, I sure, like, I can help in some of these things, but my focus will be girls education.

[A]

Right. I think that takes courage because people want you to be all things. And it's okay to have, have one message. I care about girls getting educated. Y' all can solve the rest of the stuff.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, looking at all these conflicts and things that are happening in the world, like what's happening in Afghanistan or what's happening in Gaza, for me, it's girls and their future. If their schools are bombed, if they do not have an education, they are denied the opportunity to have a future. So I support the education programs, I help bring attention to their stories. And my goal is that we promote the message that can give them a chance back to their education. So that means we have to promote peace, we have to advocate against wars.

[A]

Okay, so Oxford's going well. You've got a friendship group. You have gone to one of your rowing meets, which is hysterical because you've never rowed.

[B]

Are you afraid of falling in and not swimming?

[A]

Can't. Swam is another overlap.

[C]

Joan. Oh, God.

[A]

She's still out there because she is hellbedded.

[C]

That could happen. Is I could.

[B]

Joan? Yeah. Did you wear a life then?

[C]

No.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I couldn't even tell them. I was just like, do it once and then get out.

[A]

So she does this and she's walking home from rowing practice and she's wearing jeans. And then a photo of you emerges. You already have so much on your plate. You're trying to get through Oxford, you're trying to make friends. Now these things kind of keep bubbling up.

[C]

Yeah, you're like confused. What's wrong with jeans?

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

You know, before that, I had only worn my Pakistani traditional clothes. Even if it was a non uniform day at school, I would just wear Pakistani clothes. And I felt awkward. I always stand out as this public figure, Malala, because that's the clothes that she wears. The Pakistani clothes are beautiful. They're just flashy, colorful. And I love them and I still wear them. But in college I Just thought if I wear that, everybody's gonna see me as this public figure and they're gonna approach me differently. So I decided that I was gonna wear jeans and these jumpers or sweatshirts. Cardigans. Cardigans, all of that.

[B]

Selena goes.

[A]

Whatever. Selena was in the ar.

[C]

Coming back from rowing. Somebody took a photo of me in skinny jeans with a green bomber jacket.

[B]

Sounds cute.

[C]

I know. Sounds really cute, right?

[A]

Yeah, I like it.

[C]

And that photo somehow went viral, and there was this whole social media controversy that started that was criticizing me for wearing jeans, that it was against my culture and religion.

[A]

Anti Islamic?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You're a Satanist.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Your parents now know your family members in Pakistan are getting heat. And Mom's, of course, freaked out.

[B]

She's like, I told you.

[C]

I know. And then I opened my phone and I just check what's happening. And my parents called me, and they're like, can you respond to this or can we help fix this? Because for them, it's like, let's fix the problem. They were getting these calls from Pakistan, and I told my parents, I said, I'm not here for some pilgrimage. I'm here to study. I'm here to be like any other student. I said, I'm not gonna be defending myself or apologizing. I'm gonna wear what I want, and I am not gonna issue any statement on this.

[A]

And that's the right move. You did the right thing, and you did as well as you could to not let it affect you. But there's a reality of all that is insanely stressful. You've got a whole country up in arms right now over the fact that you wore jeans.

[C]

I know. And then it just started a whole debate. People were criticizing that my dress was either too un Islamic. And then some people were saying that she's still wearing a headscarf, like a hijab, and she's not fully liberated if she continues to wear that headscarf.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So she's wearing too much. She's wearing too much Pakistani stuff and not enough.

[C]

Enough for me. It is about the right of every girl and woman to choose for herself what she does, what she wears.

[B]

Were your friends at least support? Like, were they always.

[C]

Okay, good. Always? I mean, they just could not believe it. It's just a crazy world out there that no matter what women do, they're just criticized for it. You are promoting work too much or career. Anti career. Staying at home. You're wearing this or that.

[A]

You guys can't do it, right? You just can't get it right. But you do discover 24obs is a party. In the wake of all this, you get invited to join a Pakistani club.

[C]

Yes. Friends club.

[A]

And so you go there with a ton of fear. I don't know. The rest of Pakistan seems pretty pissed at me. How are they all going to feel?

[C]

Yeah. It had been nearly five years. I hadn't gone back to Pakistan since the attack. And this was the first time that I was getting so close to my country. Where you feel like the people who have just come here as international students for Pakistani. Now they're meeting you. I was so nervous because when your exposure is limited, then you think that what you see on social media is what people think.

[A]

Yes. That's the danger of it.

[C]

I was nervous. I was preparing an answer for every possible, like, ridiculous question I could be asked. What have you done for the country? And why don't you go back? And all of these ridiculous things.

[A]

Why are you wearing jeans?

[C]

Yeah, all of that. And when I go there, they're, like, so excited. I feel like they had just cleaned their living room just for me.

[A]

And they're everything, just like the real world. You got some people smoke pot is.

[C]

Sunny and somebody's smoking weed and somebody's not. And somebody is talking about boyfriend and girlfriend, and somebody's like, none of those things, you know, we're not going to talk about that. I was so quiet, and I was just watching. I was just worried what's going to come next. It was such a chill, fun evening, and I ended up staying there till late.

[A]

This is the rascal in her she stays till only the people left are high and she will sleep till two the next day and she'll miss class yeah, you'll let it roll I know. And you danced at this one.

[C]

Yeah. To Pakistani music. And Pakistani songs are, like, so addictive. And the friends were just wonderful. Like, that became my safe space. The 24obs house. It was a perfect place. I would just be there almost every day.

[B]

It's kind of beautiful because in some ways, you had judged them without knowing them, in the same way that people were judging you.

[C]

I know. And I was just so anxious. Like, they're gonna ask me this ridiculous question the next minute. One of my friends there told me that, I know what you might be thinking, but know that any hateful things that you come across, that's not what most of the people think. And that I support you and all of that. And I was like, oh, my goodness. Thank you. I believe more in what I experience in real life than what I see on social media. So I've been asked constantly about what do I think about the hatred I receive in Pakistan? And I'm like, what hatred? I actually receive a lot more love in Pakistan. I have been working in the country since I started this mission for girls education. There are incredible organizations that I'm supporting through Malala Fund. We have a school there. We're doing like so much work and people are working together with us and they're supporting us. So of course, trolls and these things, they're always there because people will be disagreeing you for one reason or another.

[A]

The aesthetic nature of Twitter and all of it is it's 0.5% creating 95% of the content. It's not representative at all of anything in real life. I forgot the most embarrassing and awkward part of her journey.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

She had a full security detail for all this. So she's rolling around with two white, old, middle aged cops who are living in a dorm down the hall from her.

[C]

I put them in a student room. How funny is that?

[A]

I mean, you're already feeling out of.

[B]

Place and you've got so hard to blend in, you just can't.

[C]

I made them eat the college dining hall baked beans and potatoes.

[A]

And this was educational for me. So the English, or at least Oxford, works so different than an American college. You're there for three years, you take a test at the end of one year that tells you you're out or you get to stay for another two years and they tell you where you rank. And so you take the first year one, you're like @ the very bottom.

[C]

I was at the very bottom. Like, I nearly failed my exams. Wow. Yeah.

[A]

But they didn't kick you out, so you didn't do so bad that they booted you.

[C]

But they warned me they were going.

[B]

To kick you out.

[C]

They were like, you're going to fail your degree if you keep.

[A]

Carry on.

[C]

Yeah. And that's when my senior tutor had a meeting with me. She said, I'm serious this time. Like, I have senior results, results. You need to change the way you do your work. I asked her to write a letter to my parents and Malala Fund team. Everybody was like, okay, you know, fine.

[A]

Basically, I need to stop being on the road. I need to stop my other responsibilities.

[C]

She said, being a student means you are a full time student. This is a full time job. You cannot be traveling to three different countries in a week or so. That's what I was doing in my first Year I was in Lebanon, then I was in Switzerland, then I was in Monaco. I was doing different things. Things. Some were, for Malala Fund advocacy, really significant and important. But some were paid events where I could support my family and all of that. But they said, no, you have to do it in your summer breaks. You cannot do it during college time. And it did affect my studies. I was, of course, prioritizing, socializing, but at the same time, I was doing work as well, which meant I had even less time for my essays. And I was so behind in my academic work.

[A]

Yeah, you were kind of drowning in that.

[C]

So for my second and third year, when it was like, like serious, serious, I said, okay, like, I am going to work hard. It was quite stressful to get back into it and get it all together. But then I found out about the student support system at college, and there was this amazing person. She was brought into college to help students who are struggling with their studies. I was nervous to go there because I thought I might be the only one who's going to be there. And I had this imposter syndrome. And I thought, maybe I don't deserve to be here. She told me so many students get to see her, and I even saw my friends there. That gave me a bit of comfort that it's quite normal and quite common for students to ask for help. And I think we should encourage students. The sooner you ask for it, there's just small things that can significantly help you.

[A]

Yes. Your friend Raja invites you and your friend to go go karting. Do you ever see the movie yes, man. Jim Carrey?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

He has to say yes to everything for a year or whatever, some period, and his life takes off. And in that same way, they're like, you want to come go karting? You're like, let's go. And there's this boy there, and he is.

[C]

So it was not Raja, it was Jamal.

[A]

Oh, it was Jamal. Sorry, sorry.

[C]

Different friend.

[A]

But you get invited, and then there's this incredibly cute boy in town from Pakistan who's a cricket player.

[C]

Yeah. I was just getting over my crush who had ghosted me.

[A]

Ate all your food.

[B]

Ate all your bananas.

[C]

I had just given up on love, and then this other guy enters my life.

[B]

A new potential fantasy.

[C]

Yes. Maybe it's not a fantasy. Maybe not this time.

[A]

He's gorgeous, though.

[C]

He's gorgeous. He's really handsome. I immediately was like, wow, this is the guy I sort of used to imagine. He's very charming, very nice.

[A]

She drove her go kart directly into Some into some tires and really fucked herself up and had to get taken to the manager's office and her security had to check her vitals. It was all in front of the guy. Talk about a set piece, to be honest.

[C]

So that was our first, first time meeting. So that's where I met Asar, who's now my husband. Yes.

[B]

This is a meet cute.

[C]

I know.

[A]

You totally crashed and had a big episode and he basically talked you out of it a little bit.

[C]

I know. I was like, gotta give me a minute. This is a serious injury.

[A]

And he's like, serious accident.

[C]

Get over it. He's like, you were driving at like 10 miles per hour, I need some tires. He said, I think you're fine.

[A]

He should have been like, girl, you were shot. What are you talking about?

[C]

You know, he never brought that up. He never asked me about my past. He never brought those things up. And I instantly knew that this guy is different. He was more interested in the person who I was and who I was becoming. And I needed that person. Because you want to grow. You are exploring more about yourself. And I thought he's like the perfect partner. Because with him I can be myself, I can be funny, I can say silly things. I don't have to think twice. Am I getting this right or not? Or am I saying something incorrect?

[A]

But do you think part of it was because you were like, oh, he's gorgeous, he's out of my league. Nothing's at risk here.

[C]

A little bit. Yes.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's not to out Monica more, but the hotter our guest is, the more powerful Monica is as a flirter. We'll have Brad Pitt and she'll be like, what's up girl? Like, she'll be so confident. Cause she's like, well, he ain't gonna like me.

[B]

Well, no, yes. It's the same thing though. It's an unavailable person or an unapproachable. It's like, okay, ye, yeah, there's no reason to be anything but me. There's no pressure. But then that's when you get into the circumstance where it's like, oh wait, no, maybe actually they do like me. Uh oh, there's something wrong with them. So I don't like them anymore.

[C]

Yeah, I know. I thought it would be like one of those one sided imagination kind of love story. But turns out I was actually in love with him. Yeah.

[A]

He's so sweet. If he's anything like how you describe him in the books.

[C]

So handsome. I don't want to give too many spoilers about the love story. Because I think this is, like, a really, really fun, fun story. But at one point, I felt like it was not gonna work out.

[A]

At the beginning, you were very assertive, and I like this.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

You're like, you knew he was leaving town and you're like, wait, I gotta get together with this guy. He's going back to Pakistan. I'm gonna show some initiation.

[C]

It's like we couldn't say it out loud, but we were trying to, like, signal it to say, I'm interested. By the end of that first summer, it was 2018. I had had just finished my first year at college. He didn't even communicate. His friend told my other friend to communicate to me. So it was like a long way that, oh, well, ASR is not thinking about you in that way.

[A]

Just a friend.

[C]

Just a friend. And I was like, what? Yeah. Anyway. Broke my heart. I know. But then we got back together, and I don't want to, you know, can people can read how it happened.

[A]

Oh, this is so, so cute, Monica. He's so sweet. He's so cute. He's older than you. His love is cricket. That's his life. He's from a very poor background. He's had a pretty fucking gnarly childhood in his own right. His father had a lot of issues. So you guys knew each other?

[C]

We had a lot in common because we both used humor as a coping mechanism. So being funny is everything to us. And I just realized that this guy has the best sense of humor, but most importantly, he finds me funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So he laughs at my jokes, and I love that.

[B]

I really want to know why he first.

[C]

Of course, there's more in the book, but he also tells the story that his right angel was telling him that if there's one person in the world that you don't want to hurt, it's Malala. And that his left angel was telling him, the devil, that the one person, if you hurt her, you are going to be her enemy number one. So I think for him, it was our friendship. He did not want that friendship to go away. He also understood that we were at a different stage in our life. He was already working. He had graduated. I had just finished my first year of university. So he knew that I was still figuring things out in life. To be honest, I think he was thinking the right way.

[B]

Right.

[A]

He had also been burned. He was a sweet boy. And he was a sweet boy to a few different girls. And they kind of left him in the lurch.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And he was just scared if Malala speaks publicly about. About me.

[C]

Yeah, I think he was just scared, like, if we start sort of technically dating each other and then he messes things up, that he thought it's going to be over for him because the mission of Malala fund changes.

[A]

You're like dating Taylor Swift. You're like Taylor Swift.

[C]

We're going to come back to that. But there's just one guy.

[B]

Education aside, we've all come together today.

[A]

To talk about the educational challenges of Mongolia. But before we get to that, do you guys know this guy asserts he's. Oh, I'm a cricket player.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Everyone would hate him because everyone loves you so much. So I understand the feeling.

[A]

Well, we hate Tarek. I hate Tarek.

[B]

I do, too.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by ZipRecruiter. Go get recruiting. The holidays are coming, which means it's officially the season for weird jobs. We're talking haunted corn maze workers, lead elves, professional gift wrappers, even real bearded Santas. I love that these roles exist, but finding the right person for them, that is not easy. Whether you're hiring for one of these roles or any other role, the best way to find the perfect match for your role is on ZipRecruiter. And right now, you can try it for [e-mail] Dax ZipRecruiter's matching technology works fast to connect you with top talent so you're not wasting time or money.

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[B]

They have a really cool feature. It's called the Blueprint AI Fe feature. And you basically tell it what you're trying to do. Like in our case, showcase, the podcast obviously host our archive, that kind of thing. And it builds you a custom website that actually looks really legit.

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Well, the other thing that's been crucial for us is their SEO tools. Look, I don't even know what SEO meant when we started, but it's basically what helps people find you online. Squarespace handles all that technical stuff automatically so you don't have to think about it. It's all pretty straightforward and it actually works, which is really all I care about at the end of the day. So head to squarespace.com, dax for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use code DAX to save 10% on your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by Kachava. Kachava is one of my favorite product words to say.

[B]

Oh, it is fun.

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[A]

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[C]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

And you have what is the worst experience I've ever heard detailed from someone smoking pot? It turns into a two and a half day thing. Do you want to try to describe what that sensation was?

[C]

Of course. I had become this adventurous student at college. I was trying to try everything. So one evening my friends called me to the college garden and said, let's hang out. I visit them. They're trying this new thing which looks like a flask and it's called A bong. So I was like, huh? Like I've never seen this. What is it? They're like, give it a try. It's just weed and something. I was like, okay. They said, just take one puff. And I was like, oh, what could one puff do?

[A]

Sure.

[C]

First attempt I coughed. Second attempt I inhaled it and it went all inside my body. In that moment I froze. Everything changed instantly. I was reliving the Taliban attack. No.

[A]

And prior to this, you had said many times and maybe believed yourself that you had no memory of that whole thing. That you got on a bus one day and you woke up in Birmingham.

[C]

A week long induced coma. It's hard to know what happened, what didn't happen, what was a real memory and what wasn't. But now, seven years later at college, after this bong experience, I was reliving that flashback.

[A]

It makes so much sense because when you're high and you have no experience with it, you're out of control, you don't know when it'll end. You feel trapped. These are like all the things you experienced.

[C]

And it doesn't end. It went on and on for hours. I was shaking, I wanted to scream, I wanted to move, but I couldn't. I thought I was being attacked again. I thought maybe I am dead and my dead body's somewhere and this is maybe an afterlife. I just could not figure it out.

[A]

And you're seeing flashes of memories now.

[C]

Yes. And you sort of lose that sense of reality. You feel so detached. That whole night I was in my friend's room. I was just so scared. I couldn't close my eyes. I couldn't sleep because I thought as soon as I close my eyes, maybe I'll die.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That's when my mental health journey began. I had not seen a therapist before.

[A]

And if you don't mind, you had a second experience too. And this all makes so much sense, which is you also go to Boston to get the nerve surgery and they put you on oxycodone and then you're back on again.

[C]

Really?

[A]

So now we've got again and it's the same thing. Cuz like I don't have my full faculties. I'm in this purgatory, nether world.

[C]

I just can't do drugs. Basically drugs are not for me and I wouldn't do it.

[A]

Yeah, you should though.

[B]

No, don't. She already did it twice.

[A]

She should do. Let's try ecstasy back. Okay.

[C]

I know any. I've heard things anyway. What is it? I've heard something about mdma. What is that?

[A]

Yeah, that's a. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great for intimacy. At some point, you and your sir want to rekindle Dax.

[B]

If you feel this again, this is.

[A]

Going to be no. Because she's going to do all the work and she's going to decouple all that, and there'll be a moment. There'll be a big signal that she has processed everything.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

The kissing you guys are going to do on it. Oh, my God. Okay.

[B]

The disassociation that you probably felt in the attack is what you are also feeling on drugs. There is a disassociation that happens when you're drinking or on drugs. And so it is literally the exact same feeling.

[C]

Those suppressed memories. I could not acknowledge that I had actually seen it.

[A]

Yes. Again, back to. It wasn't what people wanted to hear. They want to hear that you survived and that you survived.

[C]

And I want to hear that I survived and I don't remember anything. Who wants to remember that?

[A]

And you said you had been given this identity marker of brave.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And now all of a sudden, you're just scared out of your mind to be alive.

[C]

I felt that I had failed living up to the expectations.

[A]

You have this thing that so few people could relate to, but I find it so heartbreaking. You have this wunderkind thing, which is like, these prodigy musicians. They're 12, the world loves them, and it's like, where do we go from here? It's untenable. You'd have to grow up and be Beethoven to deliver on what this promise at 12 was. It's such a kind of cruel expectation. It's dangerous to celebrate young people in such a profound way.

[C]

Yeah. And I think the way we are receiving in media and especially now on social media, that exposure is just crazy. People then have this fixed image of you, and you also internalize it. So I just thought the girl that I was recognized as being strong and brave at age 15, who survived the Taliban bullet, this is who I need to be for the rest of my life. I have to be brave and courageous. And I was actually, like, really happy with myself, that I didn't need therapy, that I had overcome all of these things so quickly. I was now on this mission, and then I was enjoying my life, and suddenly something so small triggered the whole trauma.

[A]

The body keeps the score.

[C]

And I felt like maybe it was all there this whole time. So this was the first time I started getting mental health support. I started therapy, which you had a.

[A]

Lot of hurdles, Right? You had some cultural hurdles. As you say in the book, there are 243 million Pakistanis and there are 500 practicing psychiatrists in the whole country. So it pretty much tell you culturally how your culture feels about psychiatry.

[C]

Growing up, we were not familiar with this.

[A]

It's weak, it's indulgent, it's anti God. Somehow you should be turning to God for these solutions.

[C]

It's either like you are supposed to get some medication for everything because they see it as like a real physical problem, or maybe you're cursed or something.

[A]

Well, generally, yeah. You were saying in Pakistan, if you're having mental health issues, that's almost a sign that you're not connected to God.

[C]

I don't want to go and tell my parents because then they will think that I've gone mad or something.

[B]

You're crazy.

[C]

Yes. I myself just thought that maybe a therapist just would not understand my situation. For everybody, it's just so unique and personal.

[A]

Well, that's the thing. Your story is unique. And it's not exactly because you're just a human who's exactly right. It's like we think we're so unique, and you are objectively unique, but also.

[B]

You'Re not fundamentally, the things you're struggling.

[A]

You'Re afraid to smile at times. We're really doing it all day long.

[C]

Yeah. You know, I was really nervous about my exams. I was nervous about life after I graduate. I was nervous about a decision whether to get married or not. When I was seeing Aasar. So there was a lot on my mind, from the flashbacks to the time when I started getting therapy were still a few months in between. My friends noticed that I wasn't being myself anymore. And one of my friends then suggested that I see a therapist. I was like, they won't get it. But she said, give it a try. Because a lot of college students do that. She herself is seeing a therapist. That gave me a little comfort that I'm not the only one. And the first time I went to see that therapist, Evelyn, I told her everything. I said, okay, and now prescribe, you know, what do I need to take? But, like, fix it. Tell me where I got it wrong this time. I just wanted it all to go away. And I wanted myself to be the person who I was before the bong incident and the flashbacks. I came to to this understanding that you are never gonna be the same person as you were. Everything has changed. The way you think, the way you feel, everything has changed. You have to acknowledge that and you have to coexist with it and your.

[A]

Therapist is like, you have ptsd and you're like, yeah, what is that people say they get PTSD for? The line was too long. Exactly. It's like been so overused.

[C]

I got PTSD seven years after.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It's insane anybody would bring up this topic. And I was like, not me.

[A]

But you started having panic attacks.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

There's a lot going on. You move in with your friends. That's a little different.

[C]

She diagnosed me with anxiety and panic attacks. We had many sessions together. She told me to understand my emotions a bit, write it down, breathing techniques. Then she helped me separate emotions and thoughts and feelings from actions. And sometimes you are in this spiral of thoughts and you feel so helpless or you feel frightened from nothing. You're like, why am I scared? I can stand up to the. The scariest people who try to silence, and at the same time, I'm scared.

[A]

And then you're mad at yourself because you're weak in that domain. And then you're ashamed of yourself. And that's its own fucking thing. Now we do. We're so cruel to ourselves sometimes.

[C]

I know. And it was just so hard to like, go through it. But now I still get therapy. These kind of panic attacks and flashbacks have happened a few more times after that. I'm doing well now, but I just don't know what's going to happen in the future. The transition, the changes, just seeing new things. But at least I know that I will always ask for help.

[B]

Yes, I also have anxiety and panic. And for me now, if it starts to happen, it is actually a sign now that something else is going on. Because, you know, you're just going through life and then all of a sudden you're like in a zone.

[A]

Overwhelmed.

[B]

Overwhelmed. And it's actually helpful to say, oh, I'm having a panic attack. That means I need to deal with something. Something's going on. Yes, go talk to your therapist. Can be a good indicator if you know what it is.

[C]

This is what my therapist told me. There's a window of tolerance for each of us, and that can change throughout our lives. I kept questioning her that I stood up to so many challenging, difficult things in my life. Why am I scared now when this is not scary, but I'm somehow really scared?

[A]

Yeah, you're fighting a lion, but you're afraid of a mice.

[C]

And she said that the window of tolerance that we have can shrink in. It can grow bigger at times. Right now you might be overwhelmed with everything that is happening. You might be just scared about what life would look like for you after college or whether you should get married or not.

[A]

You're dating a sir, and it's a secret. You're not allowed to be doing that.

[B]

Yeah, that's a lot.

[C]

And the work pressure, exams, all of these things. Maybe that window of tolerance has gotten a bit smaller, but it's okay because your body is giving you these signs. You are very right. It's a sign telling us something about how we are coping with the stress.

[B]

Yeah. And maybe I need to be a little bit gentler with myself right now.

[A]

There's something to look at.

[B]

Yeah, there's something.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's something here. Now, the one thing that's going great in your life at this point is still a sir.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

This boy. I like him so much. The text he sends, the way she does this riddle British Vogue interview, and she discusses her thoughts on marriage and some other things, and it causes yet again, one of these insane outcries. And her own parents are freaked out. And you gotta now correct this statement.

[C]

I did the British Vogue cover seven, eight months before our marriage. We did not know we were gonna get married, but it was the same year the Vogue piece came out, and it received this backlash, and it became another controversy because I was asked by the interviewer, what do I think about marriage? And at the time, I was so stressed about this marriage decision, and I was seeing ASR and I was confused, like, should I get married? What about the system of patriarchy and am I giving up to it? And what about the millions of girls who are forced into marriages? Am I losing something? Am I making more compromises?

[A]

Marriage has been an instrument of oppression. Let's just say that.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

You've been fighting actively against that.

[C]

I know, and it's not that I was either against it or pro it, but I was questioning.

[A]

Right.

[C]

So I said something like, I don't know why people have to get married. Why can't it just be, like a partnership or just sort of an agreement or friendship or something like this? My comments don't even make sense to me now. I'm like, what was I saying?

[A]

Well, it makes sense to me because that's what you were experiencing with the show. You're like, I'm in something that's great. And I can't say that.

[B]

It also sounds like a fine thing to think.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And I think we should be allowed to be confused and question these things. But people were like, oh, she's now promoting girls not to get married. And she's like, against this Islamic Religious ceremony around marriage, which is called Nikah. And this whole thing that Malala is now promoting anti marriage culture. And I was like, wait, what?

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

And the parents. This one. I felt very protective of you. I was like, I want to be in this house right now. Because initially they saw it and they were so proud of this thing. And then the backlash happened and they succumbed to it, and they want her to make a sense. And then Asur's like, do you want me to talk to him?

[B]

To your parents?

[A]

What a stud.

[C]

You know, sort of in that moment, you sort of know, like, I think he's the one.

[B]

He has to.

[A]

We're here to protect. We don't offer a lot, but we should be protecting you.

[C]

And I knew he was the right one because he sort of stood up to that patriarchal narrative, that misogynistic narrative.

[A]

He's like, you look beautiful. And it's a great article. And let me remind your parents that they loved it, too. Two hours ago.

[B]

I love him.

[A]

Oh, I love him. There's some text, Monica, that'll make you bawl your eyes out.

[B]

In therapy. I've talked a lot about this where I just want someone who just has my back regardless. And it's really hard to find because also, people are their own people, and no one needs to have your back regardless. That's kind of asking a lot. But in moments where people show up for you like that, it is so meaningful. I love that you have that.

[A]

So then Malala, right after is like, let's take a trip. Because he's also living in Pakistan. He's got kind of his dream job working for a cricket organization. So you guys take this lovely trip to Lake Plaza.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, it was a long distance. It was still the COVID travel restrictions. And we somehow managed to make it to Lake Placid in the US and it was just the two of us, so it was a time where we were not thinking about anything else. Family, culture, all of these things. It's just, what do I want? How do I.

[A]

And you're supposed to have a talk.

[C]

I know. I had prepared a long list of questions that I'm gonna ask him. Everything. Does he have any problem with a woman earning more money or not? Would he feel insecure about what I do or he has to adjust to my schedule?

[A]

Are you gonna feel emasculated by joining me here?

[C]

Insecure and all of that?

[A]

Because I ain't got time for it.

[C]

I know. Does he truly, truly love me or not so worried? Anyway, we are in Lake Placid. It's a beautiful place. We are exploring different things, doing, like a yoga session and then watching birds and walking and hiking. And then we consider canoeing as well.

[A]

Again, can't swim.

[B]

Okay, I need you to get in boat.

[C]

I know. So we start canoeing, and the waves were really strong. So we are trying to, like, head back to the hotel.

[A]

This is Monica's nightmare.

[C]

But the waves are taking us in a different direction. And before we know it, we are, like, quite far, far away. And we're both panicking. Now we sort of see this house, and then we stop by the dog. But then they have three, four big dogs, and they were, like, barking at us. Now, I'm okay, but at the time I was, like, really scared of dogs as well.

[A]

That's okay. Yeah, reasonable.

[C]

The house owner shows up and she's like, I'm gonna help you. This happens all the time. And then she drives us back to the hotel.

[A]

Well, let me just add, she's around. She's a procrastinator.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

She's gone on this trip to have this talk. And they go the entire trip, and he keeps wanting to talk. And she's like, later, later, later, later.

[C]

Fun.

[B]

You don't want to bring it down.

[C]

He's like, so what did you want to ask? I'm like, oh, this yoga session, that's going to be so cool. Let's do that. It's like, okay, are you ready to talk now? No, no, no. Let's go canoeing. Okay, are you ready now? No, let's play card games or something. So this was like the last day of the trip.

[A]

Five minutes before you get picked up.

[C]

And he's like, are we ready to talk? And I was like, I think I'm ready. And he said, to talk. I said, no, I think I'm ready to get married.

[B]

To be with you.

[C]

A. That's sweet.

[B]

What did you say?

[C]

He was very happy.

[A]

I love to. Oh, I love this story.

[B]

Oh, I love it. Because you had such an idea of where your life was going to go and what you could have and what.

[C]

You couldn't have, and you got to have it all.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then we got married, like, six months after November 2020.

[A]

That's another set piece that's in the book. Everyone should read it. It's more mom stuff.

[C]

Yeah, me and my mom fight all the time.

[B]

You know, moms and daughters, we do it.

[A]

She needs to read. I have a copy the book. I'm gonna send you with it. Yeah.

[C]

What is it called oh, Let Them. It's up there.

[A]

Do you know about Let Them?

[C]

Yeah. And I've come across it, yes.

[A]

Oh, your mom needs this book. You need to give your mom this book. No, no.

[C]

So we don't know my mom and my dad's actual, actual birthday, but I asked my mom if she has heard anything about her birthday from her family members. And she said it was Ramadan time around like 1969 to, like 71. So I looked those years up on Google, looked up Ramadan time, which is based on lunar calendar. It was around October, November. My mom is a Scorpio.

[A]

Does that explain a lot?

[C]

Yes. I love scorpios. I mean, my mom is a Scorpio, but you can imagine. You cannot argue with her. She's always right.

[B]

No, see, you want her to read Let Them. Malala is already letting them.

[A]

She doesn't need to read it.

[B]

Well, exactly.

[A]

So her mother is suffering out of her fear of what people think of her and her family and her friends. She's actually suffering. And I have compassion for her. She really needs some tools to let go of what everyone else thinks.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

But also, you can just.

[C]

It's hard to unlearn if you have experienced something for decades and you have seen the consequences of what women and girls have to go through.

[A]

Oh, I have tons of compassion for her and no judgment. And because that. And I don't dislike her, I think she deserves relief. And I think there's techniques to get relief. This is my last question. Have your parents read the book?

[C]

No, they haven't. They have not.

[A]

Are you sure they haven't? If my daughter writes a book, even if I say I'm not going to, I'm going to.

[C]

I actually chose not to share this book with my parents.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[C]

This book has not been shared with anybody. Friends, family members, brothers. You know, my parents are very supportive right now. I'm sure we'll have some disagreements or something. They'll be like, did you really need to talk about this? Did you really need to bring this up? We'll talk through it. I know. I decided not to share this book with my parents because I wanted it to reflect my feelings and my emotions.

[B]

Without having to think about theirs.

[A]

I think this is you claiming your autonomy. I think you're very immersed with your family and your parents. And I think that this book is kind of a declaration of. No, I'm going to be a full person now. I'm not just going to be the person at the un you're going to have to accept I'm multifaceted and I'm a full person, and this is it. And that's brave and, I hope, liberating for you.

[C]

It's really hard to experience these different human emotions because sometimes you feel weaker and more vulnerable. When I fell in love, I felt more vulnerable.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Emotionally, I was like, oh, love can make you feel so weak. Ew. I felt broken and so vulnerable. When I had flashbacks and panic attacks, it was like, I'm failing. And now I'm more open to accepting emotions and I am embracing them as part of my growth. I do not believe in this old version of me who felt that there's only one emotion, and that is just being strong, staying so firm in what you believe in. But that means you cannot cry, you cannot feel weak in any way. You cannot be heartbroken. All of those emotions are not you. You're only just supposed to be strong. But now I'm like, true bravery is when you go through the lowest and you still stand up and do what you believe in. That's true bravery. That is true courage. To anybody out there who might feel that they're failing themselves or if they have any doubt, just know that for as long as you keep your work going, you are brave. You are courageous.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Finding My Way. I really hope everyone reads it. It's so fun and cute. Like I said, it's like a complete departure from the other side we already know. And it's so human and relatable and just really well written and it's wonderful. So I want everyone to check out Finding My Way and Moellella, I hope we get to do this again.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Come on. This was so fun.

[C]

This was so much fun. I really enjoyed it. Oh.

[B]

Stay tuned for the fact check.

[C]

It's where the party's at. Hello.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Did you use that towel? Your hair towel?

[C]

Yeah, I did.

[A]

You did? Yeah. You can tell it's crazy. You don't use the hair towel every single night because every time you use the hair towel, you get a compliment on it.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

I know. But I can only use it on wet hair, and I only wash my hair once a month.

[A]

How often do you wash your hair?

[B]

Once a week.

[A]

Once a week.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's a lot of hair. It's a big job.

[B]

It's a big job.

[A]

Expensive. You probably got to use a lot of shampoo.

[C]

Yeah. And.

[B]

And it gets dry like I. It's not good for me to over wash it.

[A]

Yeah. It'll dry Brittle.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Brittle Bones, I do need a haircut really badly.

[A]

Osteohair, sis.

[B]

But one thing about the towel that's interesting is when I use it, you know, my hair gets a little. It's very naturally curly. It's hit. Hitting its natural.

[A]

But yeah. Just tread lightly.

[B]

Yeah, well, no, people like straight hair.

[A]

Well, that's the funny thing.

[B]

Exactly. You like grass is always green.

[A]

Always.

[B]

But when my hair is curly, if I brush gets poofy.

[A]

Uhhuh.

[B]

So I haven't been brushing my hair lately at all.

[A]

And do you get. You're so blessed, your hair. Right. Because you don't get knots.

[B]

I do. Somet get knots and I just.

[A]

Sometimes you say now when I had long hair and I'm talking only like a little bit past my shoulders.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Every night it would get like a dreadlock in it when I slept.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I don't have that.

[A]

Yeah. I had to really, every morning with conditioner and a comb, like get knots.

[B]

Out because you have fine hair.

[A]

Thin, we call that fine hair. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Beautiful fine hair. Okay, so. So yesterday I went to a restaurant and next to it was a bar that was playing the Dodgers. Like it's. It's in the area by Dodger Stadium. So a lot of people go to watch the game.

[A]

Sure. And not the shortstop.

[B]

No, it's called Little Joy.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Wing. Stop. You were at quarter sheets.

[B]

Yes. Okay, Good job, Rob. Put it all together there. Little Joy. Really cute.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, they sell these chips, voodoo chips that are really yummy. So in best case scenario, we go there, we have voodoo chips.

[A]

What are voodoo chips? It's tortilla chip.

[B]

No, they're. They're potato chips. Yeah, but they have. Let's see how they're described. They're so good. Zaps. Kettle potato chips. Voodoo sweet, spicy and tangy flavor known as people chips.

[A]

Oh. New Orleans kettle style. Voodoo.

[B]

They're so good.

[A]

I'm intrigued.

[B]

Oh, I'll get you some. They're really good.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And they sell them there. So you have a little voodoo and then you go over to Quarter Sheets. Really good pizza place. Now we were watching the game and then we went over to Quarter Sheets and when we were.

[A]

Can I ask who we is you on? And Jess.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I just, just look on the website for the next reservation and I just book it because it's really hard to.

[A]

Get in there for the pizza joint.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You wouldn't have noticed probably. But do they have a gluten free crust by chance? I mean, it's la.

[B]

They should.

[A]

I don't think they do a lot of good for them if they also. If they don't. Good for you guys. Don't accommodate us. Like, make your real thing and don't fucking accommodate.

[B]

Yeah. Because they only have, like, a certain amount.

[A]

Okay. It's not like a huge scarcity.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

Yeah. And you love it because of the scarcity.

[B]

Limited edition. So anyway, we went. We had a great time. So I have a couple alter egos.

[A]

That you make resiz with.

[B]

No, they just appear. Like, Sonica is an alter ego. She drinks a lot of water.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because she's in the sauna so often or.

[B]

Oh, wow. No, she just is thirsty. And so like, every now and then, if Sonny takes over and then I'm just drinking a lot of water.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then it's like, oh, Sonny's here, you know?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then there's another one named Flanny, and she's feisty. Like, she's like, loopy and quirky.

[A]

Slapsticky.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Pervy.

[B]

Sure. But I think. I think they're all pervy.

[A]

Okay. Okay, great.

[B]

Including Monica.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So something. I was like. It was like that movie split, like, Flanny came, Sonny came.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I was there.

[A]

You know, it was a carousel of characters.

[B]

It was a big night.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then we left, and we were walking back by Little Joy, and it's open. So we peaked to see how we were doing. And it was 6:1. We were not winning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we were all like, oh, God, that's bad. And then this guy was standing on the street, and he was like, yeah, you saw it. Those guys got run over.

[A]

What?

[B]

I know. And we were like, what? And he said, yeah, the two people just got run over up there. And it was so. It was definitely. Oh, it's a ding, ding, ding to an upcoming episode. There's an expert we have on. On morbid curiosity.

[A]

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[B]

And it was a real. It was such a ding, ding, ding. Because he was. Was like, you know, out there. And you could tell he was, like, scared talking about it. You know, he was like, they got run over. I. I think they were homeless, but I don't know. And. And they screamed. And. And then Jess was like, no. That he kept saying they were homeless, which was. It was an interesting piece of it because. Yeah, I could tell he was kind of saying it so that he felt better about it, I think.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know, and he was like, they ran out in front and. But, yeah, he was just, like, processing it.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

And we did this feels. We did not want to hear it.

[A]

You know, this is very similar to like if a stray dog got hit by a car or someone's family pet. I think that's what's happening. Like, you're trying to comfort yourself and so you're like, but they were homeless. Being like they're, you know, they're running around and they're already crazy.

[B]

You know, like somehow, somehow it's better.

[A]

It's like it's not the big threat to the world because these people are already living on the fringes and doing wild stuff.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, but I don't even think, you know, you're doing that, but you're trying to go like, well, this I shouldn't feel so afraid because it's not a normal person. It was a homeless person.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

In quotes.

[B]

Yes, 100%. Yes. That. It's like, I would never be in that position because that's a different type of person.

[A]

Like, if a guy got hit by a car and you were like, he was a drug, drug addict. There's something about his. Oh, he's like slumped. He was on drugs.

[B]

That's why it happened.

[A]

Yes. And there's like more culpability, but it's all made up.

[B]

We're all making it all up.

[A]

A human died and this is.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so although we don't even know if they died. Yeah, that's what I said. I said, well, maybe they are okay because our friend Eric got hit by a car and he was okay.

[A]

Ish. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I mean, he's.

[A]

Who knows what he's like. Before we met him, post tack, he got blasted by a taxi cab. Yeah.

[B]

In New York.

[A]

But again, no, but what's funny is it's like it was Eric and you go, oh, it was definitely his fault.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because he's so absent minded. He was probably looking at his phone. But if someone's really alert and they get hit, you're like, oh, no, then that could happen to me.

[B]

Yeah, I know. And the truth is everything could happen to all of us.

[A]

Anyone could get hit by a car.

[B]

Yeah. Jess said something and interesting. He was like, yeah. It also goes from. If you hit someone, a person that's just walking across the street, if you hit them, like you're a murderer.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

And if, if it's this homeless person who jumps out in front of you.

[A]

It'S a bit of the collateral catastrophe that. That is homelessness in la.

[C]

Right?

[A]

It's like, it's like a part of a bigger problem.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's. We, we really categorize things to make ourselves like feel better. Anyway, anyway, so that was a crazy thing that happened and I don't.

[A]

But you didn't really get many details other than that the people were potentially homeless and.

[B]

Potentially homeless.

[A]

Okay, ambulance come and take them away.

[B]

Yeah, a lot. There was so many police cars. Yeah. But I'm really glad I didn't see because that is the type of thing that is like that lady in the mall who had to get out of the wheelchair and let. Or the husband had to get out of the wheelchair and the lady had to get in the wheelchair and it was a whole commotion and I was like really upset about that for the rest of my life.

[A]

Uh huh. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I think this would have made a similar mark.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I have to say I'm glad I did not see it.

[A]

Well, what I'm hearing, which sounds like good news is you are more affected by that than the loss, the world's series loss.

[B]

I was.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. That's good. I think that speaks well to your character.

[B]

It also is so human. Like he's a stranger, this person. He's a stranger on the street and he really wants to connect over this bad thing that happened.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's really interesting.

[A]

Well, he's, he's alone in this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And he needs a little connection.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Oh man.

[A]

Yeah. I have such a warp. So again we're talking so much about this actually expert.

[B]

But yeah.

[A]

This morbid curiosity topic, which is great. And there's, there's categories. This person broke it into four categories of different curiosities you could have. But one is violence.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now one is my great curiosity. But yeah, as we were going through some of these things and I was like, yeah, I just don't even get scared. I don't have any emotion during a scary movie.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And yeah, I'm like really desensitized. Like I could see that people get hit by a car and I would be kind of fine. I could walk over and get, get involved.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

And it wouldn't.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know.

[A]

That's. And I don't know. I want to know if I was born that way. I want to know if it's nature or nurture.

[B]

That's like. I mean, probably some combo. Yeah. But probably more nurture, I would say for that.

[A]

Well, this guy was saying like when you show people pictures of violence, there's like these different levels of which if it's like if it's a Two guys high fiving and you're seeing a photo, you'll immediately. You'll first notice that they have contact with one another. So your eyes go to the high five, but then your eyes go immediately to their faces. Whereas if it's. If it's like a punch to the stomach, you. Your. Your eyes will go to that violence and it won't come away contact. But then if you see it on the street, you might. You don't want to look or you're repelled by it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I only have the attracted to it part, you know?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I think that's nurturing.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

Probably because you're around violence, but also you have a need to help. So, like, you're not going to be like, I got to turn away. You want to go towards it to see what you can do.

[A]

Yeah. So that would be like a good reason. And I'm not even willing to give myself that pat on the back. Even more. Like, when Nate and I were in Afghanistan and the base we were at got blue bombed, and everyone was running in a very specific direction. They were running to all of the bomb bunkers which were all around the base. And I was feel. I was fighting this huge compulsion to run from where everyone was coming, run towards where everyone was running away from. And knowing that I'm a guest here and I. We have this liaison that's. And I start moving and he's like, no, no, wait, whoa, whoa, wait. Where are you going? I'm like, I gotta. I have. Have to see what they're running from.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

It's like I can't, like, almost. I need to see what the threat is or the degree of it.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

Before I can possibly feel calm, I gotta first know what we're up against.

[B]

Oh, that's interesting. Huh?

[A]

But, yeah, I just want to run at everything.

[B]

That's not good.

[A]

It's not a good instinct.

[B]

Yeah, no, Yeah. I mean, I do think. I think something like this, like someone getting hit by a car and you going towards that is nice. Like, I. I sometimes feel like I'm really bad because I. I don't want to.

[A]

You want to pretend that you didn't. It didn't. It's not happening.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, sometimes I'm in my bed and I think I might have heard, like an accident and I should go out to see and I struggle with this. I'm like, what should I do?

[A]

You should feel guilt free because there's so many people like me in the world.

[B]

But what if they're not around.

[A]

I more have that when I see something and I. And I'm like, the cops aren't there yet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, do I call 911? And I'm like, I'm sure someone. That's the time where I'm like, I'm sure someone else did.

[B]

Yes. Calling 91 1. It's a big. It's a big hindrance for me. I don't want to do it. And I assume someone else is going to do it. But if everyone assumes.

[A]

But didn't you call 91 1-1-4 for absolutely nothing?

[C]

No, it wasn't nothing.

[B]

It was important. And then they didn't pick. They weren't picking up.

[A]

Okay, okay, okay.

[B]

There was like some guy lurking around our apartment.

[A]

Okay, that's worthy of.

[B]

It was worthy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And they just kept ringing.

[A]

They never picked up.

[B]

No.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

It's not good.

[A]

We've heard that on Armchair Anonymous. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. We are supported by scam Skims.

[B]

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[A]

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[A]

Sounds like when your underwear feels that good, it changes your whole day. Trust money on this one. Shop Monica's favorite bras and [e-mail] after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. Now back to. I do think this upcoming episode's gonna be one of these ones where it's like I think about a lot or I start noticing. I think it really.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because it happened immediately. We interviewed this person yesterday. And then I'm laying in bed with Lincoln last night and we're talking about. I don't even know what we're talking about, but she just tells me. Yeah. She's like, you know, I, I, I spend a lot of time when I'm in my room by myself planning out scenarios where there's an intruder and they get into my room.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I have a couple different plans. Like I have this one toy I think would make a great weapon. And so it's like I, I have one version where I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna go grab that. I forget how she determined when that's the option. And then another one is she goes onto her balcony and then hangs over the side and drops down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then runs to hear she's decided she's running into the studio.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And locking the doors. But screaming the whole time, hoping we'll wake up.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then buying.

[B]

What about Delta?

[A]

But I'm kind of like impressed. Like, why not just run? Run all the way. Run out the house. Run to.

[B]

No, you have to, you have to. Oh, oh, you mean keep going.

[A]

She's gonna get a distance, but she's gonna stay on the property. She also has this inclination to make sure everything we're alerted. Like she doesn't want to abandon the whole situation, but she wants to build of a bunch buffer. But anyways, she's telling me this whole thing and it was just completely random that she said this. And then I was thinking, I wonder if I hear this all the time. But I wasn't thinking of it because we hadn't done that episode.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I was like, oh, honey, that's this great gift of humans. We can model out the potential threats we have and we can have game plans without ever having experienced it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And now whether you'll be able to execute this game plan or not, like, you at least have a game plan and you have a couple.

[B]

I had so many game plans.

[A]

You did.

[B]

First and foremost, you get under the bed, but then you spot Spider Man. You, you're not under. You are flush with the, you're holding.

[A]

Yourself up like a top of the.

[B]

Bottom of the bed.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know, hair is a little bit of an issue there.

[A]

Yes. You gotta put up.

[B]

Like Flap it so that it's also flush.

[A]

Get your towel. Get your nighttime towel.

[B]

Yeah, that was my plan when I was a kid.

[A]

But my guess is you never tried that, because I don't think you could have done it.

[B]

I didn't try.

[A]

You're not a spider or monkey.

[B]

But I felt like I. In a. In a scenario like that.

[A]

Life or death.

[B]

Yeah, I could do it.

[A]

I think some of us rely a little too much. We're going to get a big bump once the adrenaline hits. We'll know kung fu as soon as that adrenaline spike.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And I. I also remember in school they would, you know, we'd be doing like, fire safety week or something, and they would tell you, like, have a. A game plan. Have an escape route at your house. Have, like, a plan.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I told my parents, like, we're. We need to come up with a plan. And they said no. Oh, they had no.

[A]

They were not gonna play that.

[B]

They thought it was a silly waste of time.

[A]

Now, if we believe there's any power in manifesting, which we do.

[B]

Yeah, we do.

[A]

I was listening to your first episode of Beth's Dad.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

And they're reading for people who haven't listened to do it yet. You're going through your history, which was. You were a fan of their show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you had written them emails. Yes. And then they had access to those emails.

[B]

Yeah. So embarrassing.

[A]

Were you prepared for them to that quickly be able to produce these emails from 10 years ago?

[B]

No, he just. He. He just did a little quick search. It was so easy to pull up. It was so embarrassing.

[A]

But you say out loud on there, I hope I'm a guest on your show one day.

[B]

I know. Isn't that wild?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, I'm caught in the same spot you are. Right. Like, I'm thinking if I was reading, like this was all happening to me, I'd have the same embarrassment. You have.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I have, like, some judgment of people who are forward.

[B]

You do?

[A]

Yeah. Like when people hand people scripts in restaurants and stuff, I'm like, no, that's not how you do it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

That's how you do it. Like, you go through the channels like everyone else. There's no shortcut, you know? But then, yeah, I. I hear this story and I'm like, well, then also that's true.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You ended up on their show and them on yours.

[B]

I did, that's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I think it's. It's funny that that's Your takeaway. Because I. And I do think it's so specific to who you are.

[A]

And you know, I hate asking people for stuff like my own hang ups. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because Ana and I were talking about this. She listened and she heard. Heard that part. And she texted me and said, I almost started crying when I heard that email.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

She was like, it was so sweet. And you're just such a go getter.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I thought that too. Sending emails and which. Yeah.

[B]

And then it was a weird sim because earlier that day, Jess and I were talking about hustlers. And Is that learned or. Or is that who you are? Is that like nature or nurture? Basically, yeah. And. And we were kind of talking about the group, our group of friends and who is one and who isn't one.

[A]

Oh. Huh.

[B]

And he was like, you are one. And I was like, I am, I am. I think that's right. And then this was sort of like a weird confirmation.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think being a hustler is as cool as it gets. I think that's one of the. Yeah, that's a descriptor of me. I'd love to have someone say.

[B]

I think it's just like, I. I don't. That's the only option. Like, I think that's the only option of getting anywhere. Like waiting. Waiting around. That is just not going to happen. I think there are very specific lines that I feel I know not to cross that are just.

[A]

You decided. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They happen to be other people's lines. Like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's all life is. Like, you know, you run into someone and that. That to them is also the line in A J.

[C]

Lives. Yeah.

[B]

And there is.

[A]

Because there isn't a right or wrong.

[B]

There's no right or wrong. It depends on who you're talking to, who you're connecting with. And I do think there's a. For me, I do think I also have a level of self awareness and awareness of others. A heightened awareness of others. So I'm kind of like, that person probably is a no. This person is a yes. But even, like, even with writing the letter to Jenn Ann, like, that is. That is just like I'm. I'm going for it. Because why, you know. Yeah, why not?

[A]

I have other domains of. I'm going for it. But just like reaching out and asking is so hard.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I'm doing it more and more and more.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. I have to. I just. I don't have a problem asking yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good quality now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But anywho, how are we going manifest?

[A]

So, like, you manifested that whole relationship. Relationship.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's in writing circle. Yeah, it's in writing. Yeah, Yeah.

[B]

I manifested a lot of relationships, and.

[A]

I was just like. And you. You. You explicitly state it. But while I'm listening to her response to you, I'm like, well, no doubt she's gonna end up in a murky situation. Oh, Elizabeth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because. And by the way, these are my favorite kind of people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No boundaries.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, her third response is to you is like, will you marry me? And I'm like, yeah. This is like, I'm so much like her.

[B]

No, you. I think you are boundaried. You're good at. You're good at that.

[A]

Yeah. Maybe more the kind of bdp, like, I fall for people. I love people pretty quickly.

[B]

Sure, sure.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Which lacks some boundaries. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But you would not have gone self in the situation she ended up.

[A]

That's true. That's true. True. That's true. But it just. It's like, it's all right there in the intro of this kind of innocuous, inane backstory, and you're like, well, of course Elizabeth's gonna end up in something situation. Yeah. There's a lot of things being examined a ton. And I applaud her honesty and lack of any kind. She's just very honest about it. Like, you're like, how did your ego, like, getting these letters? And he's like, yes. Loved it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Loved. Yeah.

[B]

It's the most complicated journey for her definitely by far, of the three of us.

[C]

And. And.

[B]

And she does have to confront a lot of personal things and personal behaviors throughout because it's about parasocial relationships, but both ways.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And it is. It's a tricky. It's a tricky world is. It is a tricky world.

[A]

I just was on a hike with my brother, Peter Krausa.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And Larry Trilling, our father, our directing father. It was sweetest hike a couple days ago. And, yeah. We were talking about, between the three of us, we've all been close enough to several people who have gone to the absolute top of the status Mountain. And, yeah, it was our kind of. Our conclusion that, like, even the level Peter and I have is a lot to manage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Successfully and to not become a narcissist and an. And all this stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And obviously, Peter. Peter and I have only experienced, like, really a 25th of what's out there. And we all kind of concluded that we certainly know a lot fewer people that manage that successfully than we do successfully. It's such an abnormal experience for a human designed to know a hundred people, to have tens of millions of people love them.

[B]

It's unnatural and good luck.

[A]

And I'm not judgmental of anybody who doesn't manage that well because like it's so bizarre.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

And confusing I think and ultimately ironically lonely. I think that's where all these, most of these cases lead to really a lot of isolation and loneliness which is the opposite of what your fantasy was.

[B]

I know. And I also think it blur. It gets confusing. Who you're servicing in life gets confusing and who your close people are versus who, who is everyone Vers like I do think it's lonely and scary and hard. Hard to manage.

[A]

I mean thing I can relate to a lot is I think for many people it's like they don't enjoy it and they're afraid it's going to go away. Which is the weirdest mental space to.

[B]

Be in because it feels like you've lost something that you've lost which. But then it doesn't feel like love when you're engaged in it.

[A]

No. And it seems to be the outcome of the goal you set. So it's like well if that goes away then the thing I was chasing I. I must also say goodbye to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I guess my hat's off to the few that have like are somehow completely normal after that bizarre human experience.

[B]

Yeah, really strange.

[A]

But there's. They're few and far between people who.

[B]

Have handled it well. Well are the most evolved people on earth because you have to do the hardest thing which is really fundamentally understand that what anyone else says about you.

[A]

Doesn'T matter and choose to chase the validation that's hard to get and not the one that's right there and easy to consume. It's almost like junk food versus protein. It's like the real self esteem comes from the service and the being available to others and the making yourself suffer and all the things, you know, basically anything you don't want to do is going to lead to self esteem.

[B]

The human parts, not the like celebrity parts or famous parts or those things. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So it's like you have this at all times. You're at a salad bar and there's like a humongous dessert bar and. And then there's a little bowl of broccoli and for the few people that can just pick that broccoli, it's hard. I think a Lot of it has to do too with how grounding of a relationship you're in and how like equal footed the relationship is. I think that can help people not get too untethered. Like a person I can say who's completely fucking normal and as famous as it gets. Is Kimmel.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like somehow Kimmel.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is a completely normal dude. He's the same dude I met 21 years ago. And I'm my hunch is he. He was the same then as he was 21 years before that. And the things that are obvious to me in his life is that like he's completely surrounded by his family at all times.

[B]

Y.

[A]

He is not like at all distance himself from his family.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

They all work with him, they're all everywhere with him.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

He's so loyal and a lot of his focus is endlessly on like. Like his. His hobbies, getting people present. So he's like just endlessly thinking about or noticing someone like this special maid. So it's like his hobby is something not self focused.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the family's around all the time and then his wife's a gangster and not gonna be out leveraged or out talked.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah. He should write a book. How to be a successful A list.

[B]

He really should.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's why that best boy award. Not very many people get it. You know, it's an exclusive.

[C]

Rare.

[B]

Pretty rare.

[A]

Pretty, pretty rare. Have you tried Capital Grill yet?

[B]

No. Is it good?

[A]

You should try it.

[B]

I want to get.

[A]

I took my mom and Dan there yesterday from.

[B]

Is it in Beverly Hills?

[A]

No, it's right next to Warner Brothers.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

So it's very close what you get. And they're not popular yet, so you can just go in there. Which is not going to last long.

[B]

Not now.

[A]

Probably not now. But I also want them to stay in business because I love it.

[B]

This is a steakhouse?

[A]

Yes. It's very Houston's adjacent.

[B]

Oh, nice. Nice.

[A]

Yeah. They go like artichoke and really fresh vegetables. And the tomatoes, outrageous. The meat's incredible. I just discovered it maybe a month and a half ago and I've been four times now.

[B]

What do you get? What's your order?

[A]

The lamb chops.

[B]

Oh wow.

[A]

Yeah. They've got an incredible French onion soup.

[B]

We love French onions.

[A]

Croc or cup?

[B]

Croc. Wow, yum.

[A]

Beautiful salad. The artichokes, it's great.

[B]

Sounds like it probably has like a martini.

[A]

Garen Teed. The bar is 29ft. It's longer than that bar is probably 50ft long.

[B]

I want to go. Maybe I'll go now.

[A]

You should go in there and get face in like the middle of the afternoon. It looks like a great place to.

[B]

That sounds really nice.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm going to Houston's tonight. You are with Elizabeth and Andy because to celebrate we launched today and then she. That's where we decided to make it.

[A]

So it's a full circle. Okay. Great.

[B]

All right. Shall we do some fads?

[A]

Yeah, let's do some. Some facts.

[B]

Okay. Some facts from Mala. Not very many facts. Not very fact heavy.

[A]

Yeah. What are you going to say? She didn't feel lonely?

[B]

Well, I did look that up.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

No. Okay. So her friend was telling her how to drink tea properly.

[A]

Yeah. Not hit the sides of the cup.

[B]

Yeah. And you joked that she. That she should have been like, we invented tea.

[A]

Yeah. And I also remember you having a moment in your life where you learned how to do tea.

[B]

Did I?

[A]

Maybe I heard the whole don't hit the sides thing and it wasn't from Aaron Weekley.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

It was either you or Kristen.

[B]

It was probably Kristen.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Maybe when she had lunch with the queen.

[A]

She never had lunch with the queen. But in her dream maybe. Yeah. I mean there was a phase. T. Phase are fun.

[B]

I love tea. I drink tea every morning.

[A]

You start pedestrian style. You get the bag dip, dip, dip lip and ice tea. Everyone's done it.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

Classic.

[A]

And you can graduate to like raw tea. And then the little steel basket.

[B]

Yep. The steeping in the bass.

[A]

And we were doing that for a minute. I was like really into English breakfast tea for a while. You know why I stopped? Vanity.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

It's I think the highest on the teens teeth staining spectrum.

[B]

Oh my God. How are my teeth?

[A]

They're still white as. But you were just. You were blessed. You've got straight, big white teeth.

[B]

No, that. I didn't know that. That's very scary. I've been drinking it. I drink it every morning.

[A]

You better brush right after I brush before. Oh, no. You got to change the order.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. You should look up the list. There's like, you know, between coffee, wine. But tea is like. Tea will get you, girl.

[B]

Oh, sh.

[A]

Have you ever noticed people drink tea like it'll. It stains the cup. Coffee never stains the cup.

[C]

Well, is it? But do you think may.

[B]

Maybe mine's not as bad because I put a little milk in there. I drink it like.

[A]

That's sugar. So you're just adding an adhesive to the. The.

[B]

No, I don't add sugar. Just milk. Oh, you're saying sugar in the milk.

[A]

Yeah, the lactose is sugar.

[B]

Okay. But it makes the color much more diluted.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

It's like a very light. It's like.

[A]

Well, just imagine. Great. If your teeth were the color of your tea after you put milk in it. Would you be happy. Happy with that?

[C]

No.

[B]

But I also been doing this for like 5 years. Like I don't. And so far so good.

[A]

Do you think they'll ever learn to tattoo teeth? And do you think people ever reject white teeth? Because like white teeth. What is. We're all so drawn to white teeth. I guess it looks clean.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It looks healthy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like it's. It's a clearly some evolutionary signal we're getting that we all are universally. Like, we'd prefer the teeth white.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You can't say. It's just like, oh, marketing got you. That's not it.

[B]

You're right, it is. It's like an indicator that your body is healthy.

[A]

Yes. It's like the whites of your eyes.

[B]

Right. How are mine?

[A]

Always great is. I'm envious. I have to add, but I have to add drops.

[C]

Oh yeah.

[B]

That's cuz you don't sleep well. So you.

[A]

I'm an allergy machine. You know, I constantly got something.

[B]

Yeah, but your teeth are white.

[A]

Well, I brushed the out of them. And I did stop drinking teeth specifically because I.

[B]

That sucks.

[A]

I don't want to drive down the tea market. I hope it thrives.

[B]

Let's do. I mean it's. That's. You are a negative and I'm a positive. That evens out.

[A]

Okay, so it's neutral.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I do think you should look it up.

[B]

I don't want to do that. What if like, if you start noticing people's teeth are like brownish. I guess you should just like. Do you drink a lot of tea?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Go like. Oh, cool. I love Ingi. Breathy too. We should have a glass. What? How do you know I like English breakfast? Because your tea your color of a fucking bottom of a lake in the fall.

[B]

Oh man. Okay.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Do I brush my teeth before?

[A]

You should do it after.

[B]

I think it depends on the day.

[A]

Yeah. And your time schedule.

[B]

Exactly. I guess I should do it before and after. Although I actually. I know I don't like drinking something right after I brush my teeth. Cause like, you know, toothpaste, taste, taste.

[A]

It funks it up.

[B]

But I also do kind of fundamentally not want to put anything in my body until my teeth are clean.

[A]

So you know what I do? Maybe this so I wake up and I brew my coffee. It sits next to me while I meditate, as you already know. But before I'm done meditating, I'm like, okay, I get to have my coffee. But first I take a big sip of really clean, fresh, fresh water.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And I even kind of. Just a little bit. I want a nice, clean palette for this coffee I'm about to receive.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So maybe just have a nice, heavy glass of. A mouthful of fresh. It's got to be fresh, good water.

[B]

Like Tahoe.

[A]

Don't promote Tahoe. Artisan.com. shut up.

[B]

The issue is, I don't want what's in my mouth down my gullet.

[A]

That's crazy. It came from your gullet.

[B]

But, yeah, now you needs to come out.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Needs to be clean. The germs need to go away.

[A]

Okay, here's my pitch.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I have a spittoon that I ended up getting for Christmas, the year I quit dipping.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

It's a bummer. It breaks my heart.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Get a spittoon like the one I have.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Big, fresh, clean mouthful of water. Gargle, spit it in your spittoon.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Then consume your tea. Then brush your teeth.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I'll consider a lot of stuff.

[B]

There's a lot of stuff.

[A]

Or switch to coffee.

[B]

I'll think about it. Okay. But we invented tea, Actually, technically, China is the country that invented tea.

[A]

I'm not shocked. But the Indian. Wasn't the Indian spice trade also tea and spice or.

[B]

No, I mean the. The tea.

[A]

The English went down to India, and they wanted. They wanted the spices, and I thought the tea.

[B]

Me, too.

[A]

Darj. Plain tea.

[B]

Yep. Yeah.

[A]

I don't know enough about the history of tea.

[B]

I don't. Except it is saying here China. But the issue is, I do think you're right. We think tea is very Indian, but I actually think it's British.

[A]

Okay, you know what? This is an old fact I've said in the past.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You're not gonna believe this. Okay, well, this is so fascinating. Do you know how many different kinds of tea there are?

[B]

Oh, one.

[A]

There's only one. You told me that there is only one.

[B]

That makes no sense.

[A]

It's how you dry it, which turns it into English breakfast or green tea or anything. Like, green tea is really fresh. It's not been dried out a bunch. Yeah, but it's all the same bush.

[B]

So the black tea versus the green tea versus chai.

[A]

Yeah, it's all the same. So what? My guess is that the bush is probably originally from China. And they were probably doing green tea, and then the Indians got their hands on it and they were like, hold on, let's drive this to high heaven.

[B]

And see what we can play with it.

[A]

And I think they must have invented the third one.

[B]

You said chai.

[A]

Chai.

[B]

Well, chai. So this is one of the chai.

[A]

Chai means tea.

[B]

It means tea.

[A]

I know people like this.

[B]

So it's t. Okay, though people are.

[A]

Really mad when I say chai tea. Like, they'll correct me.

[B]

No one needs to get mad about it. But it's. It's also okay that it is. It does mean tea.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's great.

[B]

It means tea. But chai has more spices. Like the Indian tea has more spices and stuff.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

My mom makes me tea when I'm home, and she always asks, do you want, like, the spices and stuff in it?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I normally say yes.

[A]

You know, in Italy they say chai bello and bellissimo.

[B]

As you learn. Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So China.

[A]

Well, good for them. I did watch the History of Tea on the History of Channel, which is how I learned that it's all one bush.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I kind of wish I remembered why India is so connected. Connected to it.

[B]

Yeah, me too.

[A]

So there's two main varieties of the plant. One is in China and one is in India.

[C]

O.

[A]

But yeah, it's the oxidation process that makes the teas different.

[B]

Now on Wikipedia, it has, like, nothing.

[A]

Rwanda's gone all in on tea growing, and I stayed at a place that was in a tea plantation.

[B]

Oh, cool.

[A]

And they're gorgeous. Like, the field of tea leaves is beautiful. It was very enchanted. Yeah.

[B]

Do you think I should, at my house, do a tea bush?

[A]

Yeah, I do. If we have the climate to support that, which I think we might. I don't know if it's moist. Moist enough here, but, I mean, according.

[B]

To my dad, it's the same as India.

[A]

Well, Santa Barbara is the same as.

[B]

Santa Barbara is the same. Okay. The movie yes Man. Yeah. That was a year that he needed to say yes.

[A]

One whole year. Great concept.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

I liked that movie.

[B]

Okay. Famous wunderkins.

[A]

Oh, great.

[B]

Mozart. Oh. I thought it was a bug, but it was actually my mouse. That was embarrassing.

[A]

You're bringing up a really. You're about to do Wunderkins. And I was in this really complicated dilemma.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Delta was reading me a story she wrote. It's awesome. She wrote this, like, five page story about leaving Arizona to go to college in Cleveland.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And her uncle's, like, looking out for her and encourages her to plant in this empty lot where people grow things. And then her mom gets cancer and she has to come back to Arizona. And it's just a great story, and the details are incredible, but she. There is a line that said, like, I was 19 and in my third year of college, and I was like, oh, do I tell her she would have to be 16 when she entered? And people generally enter at 18, and was she a Vonderkin? And I thought, like, oh, she. Maybe I could ask gently like, oh, is she a Vonderkin? And then I was like, who gives a flying.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

Just enjoy the story. And I did.

[B]

Good.

[A]

The better angels of my nature prevailed. Yeah, but, like, you're. As a parent, you're constantly like, do I need to teach them this?

[B]

I know. And I would. I would also be struggling with that.

[A]

Yeah. I think I just chose right. Who the cares if it's an issue? I guess her teacher will say, like, hey, PSG would have been also.

[B]

It's like, we could just fill in our own gaps. Like, I guess she's a wonderkin.

[A]

She's a wonderkid. Or maybe she did two years of, like, community college while she's going to high school. And enter.

[B]

She just had a lot of credits.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. She was technically her third year of college, even though it was her first year of university. I don't know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I was just like, it took over for a minute.

[B]

My cousin's son, he started college when he was, like, 15.

[A]

I don't think it's a good idea.

[B]

He's a wunderkind.

[A]

These wonderkids never. I just read this terrible. There was a headline about, like, this. There was a Vonderkid chess champion who just died at 29. He's like a chess grandmaster in his teens. But I just was like, the whole Von thing is scary. It's prodigy. It's, like, impossible to live up to.

[B]

It's really hard. And the pressure's too much because there's still a kid. Kid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But he's giving up his career to run for city office, city council. Who is my. My cousin's son.

[C]

Oh.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah, I think so.

[A]

It's panned out for him.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, he's running for the city of Redmond. Okay. Mozart Marie Cury. I didn't know she was a wonder king. She was.

[A]

I thought she was old as hell. Hell. When she. When she invent penicillin, she invented something. Yeah. I think discovered God. I think antibiotics, radioactivity. Oh, Pioneering research on radioactivity, which.

[B]

Okay, so I also thought maybe she did the Red Cross.

[A]

No, I think that's.

[B]

What is the point.

[A]

Like, it's like a Joan of Arc name, I think. Okay, there's obviously not Joan of Arc.

[B]

But I think it's like Clarissa Harlow. Barton.

[C]

Barton.

[B]

Maybe she's related.

[A]

I'm Dave Buttons.

[B]

Okay, Well, I don't know why anyone goes to school because I. Obviously, I remember doing a report on Marie Curie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And obviously I remember nothing.

[A]

Me too. And I think she invented penicillin and.

[B]

I think she invented the Red Cross.

[A]

I was thinking of Florence Nightingale. Who's Florence Nightingale?

[B]

She's a. She's a Joan of Arc type.

[A]

Isn't Florence Nightingale. Something about medicine and medical English.

[B]

Statistician.

[A]

Oh, but the founder of modern nursing. Moth. There we go. Founder of modern nursing. More nursing.

[B]

Oh, my God. Okay, well, there's a lot of other. Picasso.

[A]

He was a.

[C]

It's. It says.

[B]

It says that your favorite guy. Von Neumann.

[A]

Oh, yeah, but he's like the definition of a Von Ork. Could like solving math problems no one can solve at 12 years old.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, but he delivered. He's like one of the rare ones that delivered.

[B]

But he also died. Yanu Siobon Neumann and Bobby Fiser. Speaking of chess.

[A]

Yeah. Wonderful. Crazy doc.

[B]

Yeah, I want to watch that. I need to remember there's some other people.

[A]

Doogie Douglas Hauser.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ronan Farrow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, Right.

[B]

Ronin. Famous Wunderkin. All right, well, that's it.

[A]

Okay. Well, that was fun. We asked more questions than we answered, which is my favorite kind of fact.

[B]

Yeah, that's always good.

[A]

Okay. Love Malala.

[B]

Love Malala.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Love wunderkinds.

[A]

Yeah. Wunderkins are great.

[B]

Bye.

[C]

Love you.

[A]

Love you. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.

[C]

My name is Ed.

[A]

Everyone say hello, Ed.

[C]

I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer and my mom is a cousin.

[A]

So, like, it's not.

[B]

Like, what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago.

[A]

I just normally do straight standup, but.

[C]

This is a bit different.

[B]

On stage stood a comedian with a stage story. That no one expected to hear.

[C]

22 July 201523 year old man had killed his family and then he came to my house.

[B]

So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack where stand up comedy and murder take center stage. Page available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.