Olivia Munn

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard: Olivia Munn Episode Summary

Release Date: June 30, 2025

Guest: Olivia Munn
Hosts: Dax Shepard and Monica Padman

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1. Introduction to Olivia Munn

Dax Shepard welcomes Olivia Munn, an acclaimed actor and activist, known for her roles in "Newsroom," "Magic Mike," "Predator," "X-Men: Apocalypse," and her current role in the Apple TV+ hit show "Friends and Neighbors." The hosts briefly discuss Olivia's diverse career and introduce the episode's focus on her personal struggles and growth.

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2. Sensory Issues and Mental Health

Timestamp: [04:08]

Olivia opens up about her sensory sensitivities, particularly to bright lights and certain sounds, which have been a challenge since childhood. She shares a relatable anecdote about her husband, John, impersonating her reactions to bright lights.

Olivia Munn [04:27]: "John does a great impersonation of me that when he did it, I was like, oh, yeah, that does sound like me."

The conversation delves into the impact of these sensory issues on her daily life and relationships, highlighting the importance of understanding and accommodating such conditions.

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3. Overcoming OCD and Trichotillomania

Timestamp: [08:07]

Olivia discusses her battle with Trichotillomania, a condition characterized by the compulsive urge to pull out one's eyelashes. She recounts how peer pressure and social media scrutiny intensified her struggles, especially during her adolescence.

Olivia Munn [08:27]: "There was a paparazzi shot of him and I and it was the first time I was in the tabloids... That began my trichotillomania."

Dax Shepard adds insights into Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD), emphasizing the distinction between OCD behaviors aligned with one's morals versus compulsions that are not.

Dax Shepard [10:30]: "The distinction, which is quite interesting, is if your actions are in alignment with your overall morals, that's not OCD. So, like, I'm a neat freak... OCD is like you have a compulsion to do things that are not in alignment with who you are."

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4. Family Dynamics and Relationships

Timestamp: [16:32]

The hosts explore Olivia's family background, focusing on her mother's immigration from Saigon to Oklahoma in 1975. Olivia shares heartfelt stories about her grandparents and the cultural challenges her family faced.

Olivia Munn [16:35]: "This is the 50th anniversary of her fleeing Saigon this year... So my mom married my husband."

The conversation touches on the complexities of blended families, stepfathers' roles, and the impact of parental relationships on Olivia's upbringing.

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5. School Bullying and Self-Advocacy

Timestamp: [40:43]

Olivia recounts her experience with bullying during her time at a military school in Japan and later in Oklahoma. She describes how being labeled unfairly led her to develop a tough exterior and a propensity to fight back.

Olivia Munn [40:43]: "I got letters like, you're a slut. It was really, really difficult for me. It got to a place where I started wearing baggy clothes... And then finally I was just so tired, I got up and I said, let's go."

Her determination to defend herself eventually led to positive changes, such as becoming a varsity cheerleader and homecoming princess, which earned her respect and altered her social standing.

Olivia Munn [41:26]: "And then that somehow is now stitched into your identity. And then now, weirdly, I was manifesting those situations."

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6. Battle with Breast Cancer

Timestamp: [51:05]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Olivia's courageous journey battling bilateral, multifocal breast cancer. She details the discovery, diagnosis, and the aggressive treatment she underwent, including a double mastectomy and reconstructive surgery.

Olivia Munn [56:44]: "I had a lymph node dissection to check my lymph nodes... So I have a lymph node dissection to check my lymph nodes."

Olivia emphasizes the importance of early detection and shares how proactive measures saved her life.

Olivia Munn [52:50]: "I just couldn't believe how much your life changed... Now I can't imagine picking it back up."

She candidly discusses the emotional and physical toll of cancer treatment, highlighting the stigmas around mental health, especially during perimenopause, and the critical need for support systems.

Olivia Munn [62:41]: "I am in so much pain, I don't know how to stop. ... It stops you in your tracks."

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7. Career Reflections and Choices

Timestamp: [74:28]

Olivia reflects on her career decisions, including turning down major roles like "Deadpool," emphasizing her commitment to integrity and personal happiness over chasing fame.

Olivia Munn [50:57]: "It's because I'd made decisions based off of this thing in me that was like, nope. I didn't really think through those."

She shares an anecdote about resisting a director's attempts to alter her character's storyline on "Newsroom," demonstrating her dedication to authentic storytelling.

Olivia Munn [48:08]: "I just stayed to my convictions. And then afterwards, I was on the one yard line for the movie, and my manager calls me and says, hey, you're gonna get the role."

This segment underscores the challenges actors face in balancing creative control with industry pressures.

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8. Insights on Relationships and Personal Growth

Timestamp: [80:08]

The discussion shifts to relationships, with both hosts sharing personal experiences about trust, fidelity, and the importance of communication. Olivia emphasizes understanding a partner's perspective when relationships falter.

Olivia Munn [80:21]: "Sometimes maybe it just gave them the excuse. Someone used to have a big break in moral. So you can say, this is not okay."

Dax Shepard complements this by highlighting the tendency to oversimplify relationship issues, advocating for deeper introspection and communication.

Dax Shepard [82:16]: "That is true and it is totally valid. But Kristen and I, years ago we were asking people, would you rather your husband or your wife cheat on you or drive your kids while they're drunk? You would hope that would be the answer."

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9. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Olivia and Monica share lighter moments discussing media, such as TV shows and movies, while also touching on societal issues like media consumption and misinformation. They reiterate the importance of mental health awareness and personal resilience.

Olivia Munn [84:10]: "Sometimes, when you have the thoughts that creep in, I think very quickly, let it go."

Dax Shepard emphasizes the continuous journey of personal growth and the significance of maintaining authenticity in all aspects of life.

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Notable Quotes

• Olivia Munn [08:27]: "There was a paparazzi shot of him and I and it was the first time I was in the tabloids... That began my trichotillomania."
• Dax Shepard [10:30]: "The distinction, which is quite interesting, is if your actions are in alignment with your overall morals, that's not OCD."
• Olivia Munn [41:26]: "And then that somehow is now stitched into your identity."
• Olivia Munn [52:50]: "I just couldn't believe how much your life changed."
• Dax Shepard [82:16]: "Would you hope that would be the answer."

---

Key Takeaways

1. Mental Health Awareness: Olivia's openness about her sensory issues, OCD, and Trichotillomania highlights the pervasive challenges many face and the importance of understanding and support.

2. Family and Relationships: The episode underscores how family dynamics and early relationships shape one's identity and coping mechanisms.

3. Resilience through Adversity: Olivia's battle with breast cancer serves as a testament to human resilience and the critical role of early detection and proactive healthcare.

4. Career Integrity: Navigating the entertainment industry's pressures while maintaining personal integrity is a recurring theme, emphasizing the value of authentic choices over external validation.

5. Personal Growth: Continuous self-reflection and understanding one’s past are crucial for personal development and healthier relationships.

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This episode of Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard offers a deep and intimate look into Olivia Munn's life, blending personal anecdotes with broader discussions on mental health, resilience, and personal growth. Her candidness provides valuable insights for listeners navigating their own challenges and striving for authentic living.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Monica, Lily, Padman.

[Monica Padman]

Hi.

[Dax Shepard]

Hi. Welcome.

[Monica Padman]

Someone on an armchair Anonymous recently said mvp. I was struck by the big mistake my parents made by not giving my middle name of Veronica. Yeah. Or Victoria.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Or Vince.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I would take it. Or Victor to have mvp.

[Dax Shepard]

Monica. Victor. Padman. Ooh, I like that. That's strong. Victor for victory. Today's guest is strong.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

That was an elegant segue.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Nice.

[Dax Shepard]

Olivia Munn is here today. She is an actor and an activist. She was on Newsroom, one of my favorite shows of all time.

[Monica Padman]

Great show.

[Dax Shepard]

Magic Mike, the Predator X Men, Apocalypse, the Daily show. And she is currently on the hit show on Apple tv. I love this show. I got so sucked in. Your friends and neighbors. So check out your friends and neighbors. It's out now on Apple tv. Please enjoy. Olivia Munn. We are supported by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or scaling your business, Squarespace gives you everything you need. Claim your domain, showcase your offerings with a professional website, grow your brand, and get paid all in one place. Squarespace has been along for the ride with us as we've first just had a website, then started selling merch and it's grown with us and has helped us scale. If you're a fellow creator, Squarespace makes it easy to monetize your content easily. Sell access to online courses, blogs, videos and memberships. Start with a fully customizable website and earn recurring revenue by gating your content behind a paywall. Simply set the price and choose whether to charge a one time fee or a subscription for access. This is why we love Squarespace. Setting up that kind of tech sounds hard, but they take all the guesswork out of it. You can get your site up and running quicker than you would have thought possible. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com and promo code DAX to get started today we are supported by Quints. Oh, we love Quints.

[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

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[Dax Shepard]

He's just strutting.

[Monica Padman]

He was strutting.

[Dax Shepard]

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[Monica Padman]

You know someone who does, Kristen?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no, no. I know people. I just have never heard anyone. I don't think I've ever hear. Heard someone say that at the beginning, which I love. Auditory and in light. So these are sensory issues, right? That's what we call them. Broadly, yeah. And so tell me. Bright lights.

[Olivia Munn]

Bright lights for sure. I'm just kidding.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Oopsies.

[Dax Shepard]

It's.

[Olivia Munn]

No, it's specific things. Like if I go into a room and it's really bright. John does a great impersonation of me that when he did it, I was like, oh, yeah, that does sound like me. He opens the door and walks in and goes, oh my God, these lights are so bright. What's going on? You're so crazy. That's my reaction.

[Dax Shepard]

And you make a character assessment at the end of it.

[Olivia Munn]

Crazy with you.

[Dax Shepard]

You would have to be.

[Olivia Munn]

You need all these lights on. He's like, it's literally just the overhead. But auditory sensitivity is certain sounds. And it's always been like that since I was really little. A doctor said that to my mom. Took me to like a psychiatrist. Cuz I just would really have a hard time with it. And especially in schools where they're all fluorescent light.

[Dax Shepard]

Uniquely harsh. The elementary school lighting.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. Oh my gosh.

[Monica Padman]

And malls I never understand. Mall lighting is so bad. And it's very fluorescent. And when you're trying on stuff, the lighting so bad. I've never.

[Olivia Munn]

It doesn't help you purchase clothes.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Olivia Munn]

If you guys want me to purchase your clothes, give us some soft lighting. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

How I look.

[Monica Padman]

It's a big flaw in the system.

[Dax Shepard]

So Kristen has many of these. The biggest offender is should there be two different songs playing within earshot of each other? Still short circuit. It's interesting when you have a partner, I think you're knee jerk. Because look, we love our partners, but we're also stuck with our partners. We're going to travel hip to hip with them throughout our whole life. So if they're constantly at agitated by something, you immediately forecast the rest. I immediately forecast the rest of my life. Well, that's gonna happen a lot. Can't you kind of.

[Monica Padman]

Can't you overcome this?

[Olivia Munn]

Knowing John, he likes helping me. He likes that I have a weird thing. He thinks it's very funny.

[Dax Shepard]

Endearing, maybe.

[Olivia Munn]

Endearing.

[Dax Shepard]

Like he's gonna protect you from it. His male protectiveness comes out.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, he likes to be protective and of value when it comes to certain things, like making me comfortable or happy, but also just his personality. He finds it very funny.

[Dax Shepard]

It's just something for him to work with.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, basically. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

It's fodder for some thoughts.

[Olivia Munn]

We went on a drive from New York to Montreal once and he wanted to put on music. I was like, no. Because I often can sit in silence for hours in a drive. I've started listening to podcasts. Your guys was the one that got me into listening to podcasts.

[Dax Shepard]

Truly, that makes me very happy.

[Olivia Munn]

I love how you know so much. And so it's not just a question answer, question answer. It's like listening in on somebody's conversation. So I could do that for a very long time and I could not listen to other people's podcasts. Only sometimes. Sometimes what? I told you before, there may be a person on whose voice is hard for me and I would skip that episode or not listen to you guys for a minute because I was like, okay, kind of got out of the mouth.

[Dax Shepard]

Now they're inviting these kind of voices on.

[Monica Padman]

Wait, can we pinpoint what it is about their voices? Is it mine?

[Olivia Munn]

No, I love your voice. No, no, no. It's the dynamic between you couldn't not like your voice in case you come in very like, hey, so I'm just gonna point this thing out. So you're driving everyone nuts for some reason. I can listen to the same song one time. I Did that drive to Montreal. I have really close friends there. It was like a four or five hour drive, but I listened to the same song over and over and over again. I like to do that because it feels comfortable and I know it is.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you watch movies over and over again?

[Olivia Munn]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So this is a big anxiety thing. This is Monica's favorite thing, is to watch the same film 13, 14 times in like a quarter.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And then we keep seeing all these Instagram psychology tips and one of them is that's super common for people with anxiety.

[Olivia Munn]

Well, I have dealt with a lot of anxiety.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, this is what I want to get to. So you wouldn't remember the first time we met, but I do, which was at I think the Soho House at like a CA type party. It was like an agency party and I hadn't met you and you and I kind of bumped into each other at the bar and by my recollection had an explosive exchange of ideas. And I've referenced you many times on here. In that conversation you were telling me that you had this something. Trichinemia, whatever it is. Trichotillomania, where you would pull your eyebrows.

[Olivia Munn]

Eyelashes.

[Dax Shepard]

Eyelashes.

[Olivia Munn]

But the trichotillomania, specifically people pulling hair. So it could be hair at the top of your head because there's a sensation. It's probably not even real, but I'll feel like, oh, this eyelash feels like it's going to come out even though it's not. And then when you pull it, there was a quick second of pain.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

And then there's a satisfaction and then immediate regret.

[Dax Shepard]

What a short lived high it is.

[Olivia Munn]

But we have a lot of hair, you know. But then I was dating Chris Pine.

[Dax Shepard]

At the time, who we've come to love.

[Olivia Munn]

He is amazing. We were recently at the SNL50 and we're in the airport lounge together. And it was so great to catch up. He's just the best. So there was a paparazzi shot of he and I and it was the first time I was in the tabloids. I was on G4 and I was going to some very small event. It was like for weed, I think when it was just trying to be.

[Dax Shepard]

Legalized to promote it or to stop it. It's used.

[Olivia Munn]

Promote it.

[Monica Padman]

What side of the aisle are you on?

[Olivia Munn]

Oh, I had asked the costume on this daily show I hosted what is the ugliest dress you have? And they found this blue old prom dress with big pom poms on the side. And I was like, ooh, wonder if I Can make it into the worst, best dress list.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

And then I did, and I couldn't believe it worked. The fact that I was like, they know who I am. To even put me on this list. It was very exciting.

[Dax Shepard]

Talk about silver lining. Get a worst dress and be like, yeah, I'm worthy of a worse dress. Yeah, I like it.

[Olivia Munn]

So I had left Chris's apartment. Hopefully, I don't think he'd mind me telling any of the story, but I'd left Chris's apartment and there were paparazzi outside his house because he had been in Star Trek and all this, and I didn't recognize it. My wallet was, like, a little bit bigger. It's like a little kind of wallet clutch. And they caught photos of me. I was like, oh, my God. And when it got out, and one of my friends was like, hey, you're dating Chris Pine. And then I did the horrible thing, which was to read the comments. And this is back in the day. At the time, you don't know that it's bad. And they were like, I think she set this up. Who's carrying a clutch during the day? I was like, ah. That began my trichotillomania.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that was the beginning.

[Olivia Munn]

That was the very beginning.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know why, when we were chatting back at that party that I thought this was maybe a childhood thing, because I was certainly telling you about my tics, I would imagine.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, we did talk about that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I know. Zd, you were the one who. And I credit you for this all the time. You go, well, you know what? OCD is all about control. Yeah, but I didn't. I just knew the term ocd because.

[Olivia Munn]

You know, all the other people like to be like, I'm ocd. And they say that in a way of, like, bragging about how organized and clean they are.

[Dax Shepard]

That's ocdp. Because we had an expert on it.

[Monica Padman]

She told us we got in big trouble on ocde.

[Olivia Munn]

Ocd. Egotistical ocdp.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. The distinction, which is quite interesting, is if your actions are in alignment with your overall morals, that's not ocd. So, like, I'm a neat freak. You think being neat is the correct way to do it. You think being clean is godly. So that's not ocd. OCD is like. You have a compulsion to do things that are not in alignment with who you are.

[Olivia Munn]

Procrastination is really connected to ocd. And OCD has a lot of connections to hoarders. So when you've ever watched that show Hoarders, There will be one cabinet or one area that still looks really perfect.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

Because that's who I really am. That's what I'm heading towards.

[Olivia Munn]

Yes. It's saying to yourself and saying to others, no, no, no. I'm really organized here. Realizing that connection made me stop myself from living like that. And so I would work really hard to clean it up. Now having children, it's impossible.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right.

[Olivia Munn]

The other day, I cleaned up everything while John was out with Malcolm. And I'm not exaggerating. Within 10 minutes, it was a mess again. That was hard for me at first because I felt like a failure as a mother and as someone who's supposed to take care of their home. Then I just was like, this just means a life well lived.

[Dax Shepard]

They're here to teach you these lessons that were impossible to learn. So my big thing is maintenance. You should be a good steward of the things you have. If you're lucky enough to have them, they should be in good condition. And just within two years, every single thing in the house is destroyed. And then you have to go. That doesn't matter at all. What matters that these kids had a blast growing up in this house. And if I kept it perfect and nothing was damaged, that would just be a different kind of childhood. That trade off is not worth it.

[Olivia Munn]

The thing that I focus on is I want him to take physical risks and be brave. And I know you know that. Cause your daughters were on motorcycles so young.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

And it was hard at first to convince John. Cause John's family, they just didn't do anything. Like, you know, like the really low beams at the park. That's literally six inches off the ground.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right.

[Olivia Munn]

He's like, malcolm, come on, let's get off of that. I'm like, what? One time, Malcolm walked up the slide, like the bottom to the top, the correct way. If you're a daredevil, that's what we all have done. He goes, hey, Malcolm, we don't go up the slide like that.

[Monica Padman]

But is that about rules? That almost sounds more about rules than about.

[Olivia Munn]

No, I think it's for safety, really. Like, John was really big on safety.

[Dax Shepard]

They can be complimentary. Like, one is for decorum, but decorum is generally safer.

[Olivia Munn]

So we both grew up with a lot of rules. My mom was a very strict tiger mom. My stepfather was in the military. John's parents are baby boomers generation. And they kept their home really organized, I think, emotionally and with a schedule. And John says that his friends would always kind of feel safe there because there was the structure. Even though he had another friend who he would go to their apartment and just do the craziest shit. So he felt a lot of safety in that. So I think that he also likes doing that. I've had to talk to him about that. And I had heard something. And when I say I've heard something, it means something came up on my Instagram. I'm like, so I heard this psychiatrist or this psychiatrist told me, and he was like, where did you hear it? Did you go to a psychiatrist? Let's say. I'm like, it was, yes, ig. But it said something like, it was important for fathers to show physical risks and physical capabilities.

[Dax Shepard]

Our job is play.

[Olivia Munn]

Yes. Because it makes them feel more brave and confident in their own skills. But you know, I grew up doing martial arts, taekwondo and cheerleading.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I love it.

[Olivia Munn]

No connections. I know. When I heard you were a cheerleader early on, I was like, I know a little bit about how you grew up.

[Monica Padman]

It's a common language.

[Olivia Munn]

Yes, exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

You could say that. Anyone that was a ballerina, like, you know that life, that's a certain kind of life.

[Olivia Munn]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

But I think people on the outside of cheerleading don't under. Like, we, we do all know about ballerinas, but not everyone knows about cheerleaders.

[Olivia Munn]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

They should watch cheer. Great show.

[Monica Padman]

Were you competition cheerleader?

[Olivia Munn]

I was high school cheerleading. But in Japan, we competed in all of Far East Asia.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Olivia Munn]

So there's big competitions. And I tried out my 9th grade year. And usually 9th graders almost always make JV, but I had made varsity that year.

[Monica Padman]

Nice.

[Olivia Munn]

I had moved to this new school in Japan a few years before. I had a really hard time assimilating.

[Dax Shepard]

Was it an expat school or was it all Japanese?

[Olivia Munn]

It's a military school.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, right, right.

[Olivia Munn]

But we compete with all the Japanese schools too.

[Dax Shepard]

Can we beat them at anything?

[Olivia Munn]

Well, we beat them eventually.

[Dax Shepard]

You did okay. Oh, wow.

[Olivia Munn]

So I had no friends and it was really hard. It was like eighth grade. And I would look at people who had a lot of friends and the cheerleaders did. So I went to the library. I got a book on cheerleading and how to cheerlead. And it taught you how to do like a herky.

[Monica Padman]

Uh huh.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a book on it.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm surprised you didn't do that. That sounds very you.

[Monica Padman]

It does sound like me reading your garage. I feel like I should write one.

[Dax Shepard]

You should.

[Olivia Munn]

That'd be so cute. So then I tried Out. And I made varsity. Varsity goes and competes. In our first year, we got third place.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Olivia Munn]

And the second year, we got first place. And it was a big upset. We were toe to toe with this other school that we had already heard was like the tough school. They were another military school. They weren't one of the Japanese or Guam schools.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know if this is racist, but when I think Japanese, I think synchronization and work ethic. Yes, yes. They got a lot of qualities that would lend.

[Olivia Munn]

And they're lighter, so. Or throwing them into the air. But one of the girls came from America that same year. She had been a cheerleader there, and they were incorporating, like, dance hip hop y. Kinda hip hop y. So she brought the music and everybody else had the regular cheers. And so we had this element. But this cheer team we had already heard was tough in a way, like a little bit more street. And so they didn't mind fighting. Oh, wow. Yeah. Our cheerleading coach, after we won, we were so excited. She goes, we're ordering pizza and staying inside because we've already gotten word that they're on the streets looking for you. Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

This is like a football team.

[Monica Padman]

This is exciting.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were looking for us. And so we stayed inside and celebrated. But, yeah, it was a big deal.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, we've jumped to one of the more exotic chapters of your life, which is living in Japan. But let's start in Oklahoma. Your mother comes to Oklahoma in 1975.

[Olivia Munn]

This is the 50th anniversary of her fleeing Saigon this year.

[Dax Shepard]

Her own story is quite interesting, right. In that she is Chinese ethnically but lived in Vietnam.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, we're Chinese. We have a little bit of. Of Vietnamese in our bloodline. But, yeah, there was a big Chinatown in Saigon. And like what happens in most war torn countries, missionaries come and spread the word of God. And so then they had met the head of a Christian university and they had sponsored them to come to America. And it was my grandmother and her nine children.

[Dax Shepard]

Was she the first to be Christian in her family?

[Olivia Munn]

So none of them were Christian.

[Dax Shepard]

They just played the game.

[Olivia Munn]

Played the game.

[Dax Shepard]

I did, too, to go to Cedar Point.

[Olivia Munn]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I went to a couple youth meetings just to go on the Cedar Point trip.

[Olivia Munn]

I have twin uncles and they loved David Hasselhoff. They saved enough money and they snuck money in from Vietnam and they were able to buy, like, a Trans Am and a Corvette.

[Dax Shepard]

Did they too come to Oklahoma?

[Olivia Munn]

They all came into Oklahoma.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Olivia Munn]

They loved growing their hair out long.

[Dax Shepard]

Like David hassell I love these guys. They're fucking vets and Trans Ams and long hair. They smoke cigarettes?

[Olivia Munn]

No, but they did bodybuilding competitions.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God, I love them. What are their names? Uncle what and what?

[Olivia Munn]

Ty and Fu.

[Dax Shepard]

Thai and Fu. My bros, Thai and Fu are coming over. We're gonna fucking bang some more. I know.

[Olivia Munn]

And they had like these sepia colored photos of them oiled up and just jacked.

[Dax Shepard]

Send me those.

[Olivia Munn]

I would love to send you those.

[Monica Padman]

Is that because that was what America was to them. It's what it represented.

[Dax Shepard]

That's why I like it so much. I love the fantasy of being somewhere else. And you look at this other place, it was on tv and it's a fake version of the place, but you actually come in and enact the fake version, which is great. It's like, talk about creating your own reality. I love.

[Olivia Munn]

So then they start going to church.

[Dax Shepard]

Cause that's where the ass is.

[Olivia Munn]

Well, at the Christian University too. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Well, they owed Jesus.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. And so now they're at this Christian university and they gotta go to church all the time. And then the president of the Christian University said, hey, you need to be more clean cut. You need to cut your hair.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Olivia Munn]

And that was a big no no for them. And they're just so smart and clever. And they went and they found a picture of Jesus Christ with his long ass hair.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

And they showed it to her and they said, wow. And then she let them keep.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, that's a good counter when you can bring in the top dog.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

There's no top dog has long hair.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Awfully hypocritical to say cut your hair.

[Dax Shepard]

Didn't he create us in his image? Isn't that the premise of this whole thing?

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

How does your mom meet your dad, Winston?

[Olivia Munn]

She was introduced to him through a mutual friend.

[Dax Shepard]

Did she already speak English?

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, they had been learning English. So Saigon was a very wealthy city. That's why you'll meet a lot of Vietnamese people who are here. They'll tell you stories about how they're. Their family was so wealthy, which is, I think, why there was an invasion. And so wealthy schools would teach English and Vietnamese and Chinese and French. My uncles speak French.

[Monica Padman]

How old was your mom when she came here?

[Olivia Munn]

20.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a halcyon moment in Saigon where it's like a very sexy, cool, thriving city that's very French, of course, in the early 70s, like the Montreal of.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, the Montreal of Asia.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

I mean, they loved it there. What's so incredible about my family and my mother is that on that day 50 years ago, they got onto a ship and left the only country and home they ever knew. And they were never gonna come back. My grandfather stayed back cause he was going to dig up his gold. So back then, they would bury all their stuff. And sometimes they'd bury them with people who passed away and are buried into their caskets to like hide.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, you gotta do a little grave robbing.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. So he was like, I gotta go get my gold. I'll see you there. And then they got a letter. However much time later that he had passed. Yeah. So he never got to come over.

[Dax Shepard]

There's a fable in there. Sticking around for gold and missing your family. Trading your family for gold.

[Olivia Munn]

That is better.

[Dax Shepard]

That's advice. I'm sure he was having a raucous time.

[Monica Padman]

But why'd they leave?

[Olivia Munn]

Because Saigon was invaded. There was this great documentary called like, the Last Days of Saigon or Final Days of Saigon.

[Dax Shepard]

Because the Agrarian revolution was certainly going to take out all the people that were landowners or had been wealthy. They were enemy number one.

[Olivia Munn]

It was not safe of Ho Chi Minh.

[Dax Shepard]

And there's five of you.

[Olivia Munn]

So my mom married my husband.

[Dax Shepard]

Sorry, no, hold on. Right now. Can I tell you, because that's really.

[Monica Padman]

Everything I said that was so Freudian.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, because you're referring to the second husband, right in that moment.

[Olivia Munn]

No, I will not refer to any of them. My mom is so close with John. It's his best friend. When I went through all the surgeries for breast cancer, my mom was like, I'm going to come and help you. But my mom drives me crazy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Olivia Munn]

She is always on YouTube, on her phone, listening on full volume. Which I can tell you is so hard for me. And so many times like, mom, can you just turn it down? It's really, really difficult. So she shuffles away to her bedroom. My daughter, who's eight months old, when she was really young, brand new into the world. She'd be holding her while she's asleep and she has on her leg, full volume. YouTube. Vietnamese news. When I say news, I mean it's just a guy talking about what he's.

[Dax Shepard]

Read, what he saw on Instagram that day. I interviewed a doctor today. I saw it in my face.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It seems like you can't really throw stones though. So that's all you get.

[Olivia Munn]

I didn't say I didn't believe him. So then my mom was wanting to come and I said, I don't need her to come. Do you want her? And John said yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

And they hang out. John makes an actual paper to pen list of all the movies he wants to watch with my mom. They watch everything. He loves her. They hang out. They're cackling.

[Dax Shepard]

Do you think you'll ever walk in and they'll be kissing?

[Olivia Munn]

No, but they're often on the couch watching a Korean movie, sharing the same blanket.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wonderful. And they probably like to commiserate about you too, because I like to do this with Kristen's dad. And it can be positive. There's a fun dynamic with you made this girl. I'm now with her forever. There's a lot of fertile ground for us.

[Olivia Munn]

So one, when I had Malcolm, I couldn't produce breast milk. I could do like a bottle a day. Not even. So I had spent all this time pumping and I put it on the counter because you're supposed to keep it room temperature because you can use it within a certain amount of time. So I come over and I look and I'm like, mom, where's my breast milk? And she has that look on her face like, ooh. And I went, what? What did you do? And she goes, I thought it was to be thrown away, so I threw it away.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no.

[Olivia Munn]

And I went like, mom, you know, I did that thing that you talked to your mom, like, mom, what? I can't believe you did that. I'm so angry at you. You have no idea. Start crying. And I'm like, this is everything. And it takes me all day long and this is the only way I bond with Malcolm. And then she looks at me and goes, john threw away the dog food. And I was like, what? And I got like, you know, just food for dogs or this gourmet dog food that has to be in the refrigerator.

[Dax Shepard]

I know all.

[Olivia Munn]

And she just threw him under the bus. And then another time, she disappointed me and made me mad about something. And then she went to John and said, hey, Olivia's mad at me. She told you to put on the humidifier. I noticed you didn't put on humidifier. So when I pointed out to Olivia, just know you are in trouble, she's.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, being forthcoming that I'm going to tell on you.

[Olivia Munn]

And then John came up to me and said, hey, your mom said this. So I need you to really act like you're so mad so that she ends up feeling bad. So then John does it, and I'm like, I cannot believe you. There's only a few things I. I asked for you to. And I just reamed into him. We look over at my mom and she's like this.

[Dax Shepard]

She loved it.

[Monica Padman]

She smiled.

[Olivia Munn]

Did not phase her.

[Monica Padman]

It happened exactly the way she wanted it to.

[Olivia Munn]

So John loves it again. He likes the weird things in people.

[Dax Shepard]

I appreciate that about him.

[Monica Padman]

We're so similar. I talk to my mom like that. My mom also watches YouTube constantly and it drives me nuts.

[Olivia Munn]

I know. I've always thought that you and I'd be very good friends. I've listened to this a lot. I've always wanted us to run into each other, but it hasn't happened.

[Dax Shepard]

Monica will scream from her bedroom, mom, I want a sandwich.

[Monica Padman]

No. So not currently. I did used to do that and then now it's so seeped into her, it's like Stockholm syndrome. When I arrive, she's like, here's your sandwich.

[Dax Shepard]

Trying to be ahead of the pain.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. My mom cooks a lot. She cooks for John all the time. She'll text him and be like, what do you want for dinner?

[Monica Padman]

It's a love language.

[Dax Shepard]

I could see being really charmed by a mother in law. Like you're offering? I think that would be fun. But. So mom and dad met and then. Are you the only child out of that union?

[Olivia Munn]

No, there was first my sister.

[Dax Shepard]

How much older?

[Olivia Munn]

She's two years older. And when I was six months old, my mom discovered my dad was cheating on her. She had taken his suit jacket to the dry cleaners and was emptying the pockets and found two movie ticket stubs.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, this is very movie esque.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's also very 80s.

[Monica Padman]

It is.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Two movie ticket stubs. She found a receipt for a taxicab. He never drove in a taxi cab.

[Olivia Munn]

To his credit, he admitted it and then she kicked him out. And it was with a woman he played bridge with.

[Monica Padman]

Very sexy.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, bridge is super sexy.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

A year and a half later she marries the next guy.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, so they were dusting together.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So no second chance. That's it. Hard, hard line in the sand. There maybe more going on.

[Olivia Munn]

He called her and begged her to come back and she did. And then as she tells me, there was one night where she can hear him crying in bed and she's like, what are you crying about? He's like, I just miss her. And he was like, I'm confused and I don't know what to do. And she was like, no, I can't do this.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, I hate that this is my takeaway, but a part of me is like, why didn't he just lie? Not about the first one. But about the crying. You could be crying about anything.

[Olivia Munn]

There's a point you want to be caught.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe he was evaluating whether he wanted to be with the bridge lady or your mom.

[Monica Padman]

The bridge lady.

[Dax Shepard]

Bridge babe.

[Olivia Munn]

I think there are quite a few people, and I think it's predominantly men that I've experienced and seen in my lifetime that can't deal with the guilt of ending the relationship. So they want to do something where you say, I'm done.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I think that's more of a guy's move. And also to just kind of detach, stonewall, hope that the woman finally goes, this is not fulfilling.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. And now here's another bonding moment for us. So, yeah, my first stepdad showed up around 4. Or maybe they started dating when I was 4 and they were married at 5 or something. I'm not a fan of the first.

[Olivia Munn]

Same.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, tell me about this dude.

[Olivia Munn]

Just a bad guy. He was Air Force and really abusive and lived with a lot of fear. I realized later in life that I was creating a lot of issues in relationships. And I would be quick to fight because my equilibrium was very off. Everyone has anxiety on a level one to 10. One being, I'm gonna be late for work. Where are my keys? And 10 being, my entire family is burning alive in a house, and I can't get them out. Mine was a consistent nine. And so as I go into life, something that could bother me as a one or two is super high up on that anxiety list. And I would just create these fights. Cause it felt normal. And it was a really bad time in my life. There was this one time where I had decided that I'm not going to talk to him anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

What age do you think this was?

[Olivia Munn]

This was at 15. I also had to call him dad early.

[Dax Shepard]

Ew. It was one of his things.

[Olivia Munn]

It is one of those things. You get it.

[Monica Padman]

That's a control mechanism.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. Titles are really hard.

[Dax Shepard]

Did we dare tackle this? This is very dangerous. But I'm gonna just be dead honest. I can imagine, especially in the 70s and 80s, white dudes having an idea of what an Asian immigrant woman's gonna be, which is gonna be very subservient. And I'm gonna be the boss. And getting into the relationship. And no relationship's ultimately like that. Even if on the outside appearance it has that flavor. Do you think there's any validity to that?

[Olivia Munn]

Well, his first wife was Chinese. They had two children together who just happened to be the same age as my sister and I. Very Brady Bunches. And my mom and his first wife definitely fell into the stereotype of subservience. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

By the way, what a fucking gross thing to desire.

[Olivia Munn]

I know. To have somebody just wait on you.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I want someone to be subservient.

[Olivia Munn]

And you know, it's not my. Her second husband. My current stepfather is amazing. When I was 16, it's the first time I got to see my mother in control. But yeah, I had to call him dad and I hated that. It's a small thing, but you know when you have friends and you have kids and when you're close to them, you're like, hey, it's your uncle Dax. It's just your friend. I do not like when you call somebody an aunt or an uncle who is not blood.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, interesting.

[Olivia Munn]

Or they have godparents. We call them Uncle Kevin and auntie Stevie. And that's it.

[Dax Shepard]

That's where it ends.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. Yes. And I had friends who'd be like, I'm your auntie, whatever. Or John will introduce one of his friends and be like, this is your uncle. I don't say it, but I don't like it.

[Monica Padman]

You don't like it now?

[Dax Shepard]

How do you feel about this? This is the dynamic that's happening in my house, which is my best friend. Aaron Weekley, who's here, is my son. He's called me dad since we were 12, and so he's my daughter's brother and they call him their brother Aaron.

[Olivia Munn]

Emotionally? Not actually emotionally.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, yeah. Physiologically he can't be my child. Cause I'm only six months older.

[Olivia Munn]

That doesn't bother me.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, good. So their brother is 49, about to.

[Monica Padman]

Turn 50, but I agree with that. I also feel on the opposite end, as someone who is like a ant, like figure in many kids lives, I don't like being referred to as an aunt when I'm not their actual aunt.

[Olivia Munn]

Oh, you get it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Like, that's not the right word to.

[Olivia Munn]

His kids, the Delta. And well, we have other words.

[Monica Padman]

Like I'm her soulmate.

[Olivia Munn]

Well, that is extreme, by the way.

[Monica Padman]

And we are.

[Olivia Munn]

Wait, Kristen's soulmate or the children's soul.

[Monica Padman]

Delta's my soulmate.

[Olivia Munn]

Well, Delta is very soulmate. Y. Very. Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Because I started working with them when Delta was three months old and I was taking care of her and she is my soulmate.

[Olivia Munn]

Well, I'm happy that you found your soulmate.

[Monica Padman]

I know, but. Yeah, aunt. It's not the right word, but. I don't really know what the right word is.

[Olivia Munn]

I dated Somebody who was Filipino. In Filipino culture, there was always auntie and uncle.

[Dax Shepard]

Same with Indians.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. And I'd be like, is it real? I'd have to be like, blood? And they're like, no, no. And you're like, okay, okay. I want to know. Blood or not, I was triggered.

[Dax Shepard]

What is the reality I'm living in? Is that a blood relative?

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. It makes a difference.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So this dude, though, he first took you guys to Utah. When you were in Utah for what, maybe three or four years?

[Olivia Munn]

Three years at Hill Air Force Base in Utah.

[Dax Shepard]

But were you sad to leave Oklahoma? Did you pine for it?

[Olivia Munn]

So my grandmother and grandfather, my dad's parents. My grandmother is the kindest person you'd ever meet. And they were with us all the time. My mom loved them. They loved my mom, and they took care of us a lot. So leaving that was really scary and made me sad. And the first time we were there was in kindergarten. So we went really young. The abuse had started, and I was already really fearful. So being there, away from my grandparents, the people who kept me safe. And I noticed that my mother didn't feel like she had the power to do anything.

[Dax Shepard]

My mother, when I asked her how she could have been with that dude, she was driven almost solely by the shame of, there's no way I can fail at this a second time. That was such a powerful force.

[Olivia Munn]

I think that when she had two children, there was this feeling of how do support I. Being married to someone that has a steady income was important. It was so far back, but I remember it clear as day. There was this one time all the kids got a sled for Christmas, and we were in Utah, where it snows a lot. And my older brother Jimmy, who was just one of those kids that parents probably get annoyed with, my stepdad was like, I made this for you guys. It took me all this time to make it. And Jimmy was looking and goes, you didn't make this. And he's like, yes, I did. And he looks again. He's looking around. He goes, you didn't make this. And then he beat the shit out of him on Christmas Day.

[Dax Shepard]

He didn't make it, did he?

[Olivia Munn]

No, he couldn't have done that. Jimmy knew him enough. There was no shed for him, you know, There was no area that he made this at. I felt powerless. That became the point in my life where I became such a fighter. Going back to the story of when I had decided to stop calling him dad or talking to him at all. When I was 15, I had done it for a while. And then finally I was walking up the stairs and he was walking down the stairs and I just kept looking down at the stairs and he stops me and he says, I'm sick and tired of you not talking to me. And then I looked at him, I rolled my eyes and kept walking. And he grabs me and he turns me around and he slaps me so hard that my head hit one of the framed family photos that went up along the staircase and, like, cut my eye. I remember looking at him with tears coming down, but not sad tears, but pain tears. And then just rolled my eyes again. He had this look of like, what the fuck?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I know what the look is. Oh, I'm going to have to kill her to dominate her.

[Olivia Munn]

And it was so piercing. But mine was piercing back to him. That solidified for me that there's a lot of power in fighting back. And so in my life, I would fight back a lot, sometimes to my own detriment.

[Dax Shepard]

Same, same, same. Well, it's hard to remember. You're not a kid, you'll be an adult and you realize, oh, I'm behaving As if I'm 15. I have no choice over my surrounding and who I'm around.

[Olivia Munn]

Well, memories don't know time. When something happens to you, you go right back to being 8 years old, you go right back to being 15. And the reactions that you had then feel applicable to what you're going through in that moment.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, and they were required and saved you and needed. And then, yeah, at some point they're probably not needed. But, yeah, if you have been afraid of someone, there's nothing quite as satisfying as having been afraid of somebody for a very long time and then getting to the point where. Where you declare you're no longer afraid of them or even I don't mind what the outcome of this is.

[Olivia Munn]

I think I was just born like this. I just always wanted to fight back.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking All State first. Like, you know, to check your flights on time first before heading to the airport. Like, you know, to check your presentation is saved first before closing your laptop. That's one mistake I'll never make again. Checking first is smart. So check All State first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate Savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, IL we are supported by Better Help. You know, there's still a bit of surrounding stigma for men's health. I think it, I think so too still be challenging for men's to admit they're struggling and seek help.

[Monica Padman]

I have a friend who just started therapy, a male friend, and he loves it so much and. But yes, I think it's taken a little extra long because you're right, there is a stigma, but there really shouldn't be.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Men today face immense pressure to perform, to provide and keep it all together. So it's no wonder that 6 million men in the US suffer from depression every year. And it's often undiagnosed. If you're a man and you're feeling the weight of the world, world, talk to someone, a friend, a loved one, a therapist. I'm a man. I've benefited greatly from therapy and Better Help is a great option if you're looking to start therapy. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with Better help armchairs get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com Dax that's better help. H E L P.com Dax we are supported by the Farmer's Dog. How do you pick the right food for your dog when there are hundreds of brands out there? Let's start here. Kibble isn't the only option. Yes, it's dog food, but it's also ultra processed dog food. The Farmer's Dog takes a different approach. They make real fresh food for dogs and the recipes go beyond quality ingredients. It's really about how they're using. Unlike most pet food, they take real meat and vegetables and gently cook them to retain vital nutrients. The food is developed by their team of on staff board certified vet nutritionists and it's portioned out specifically for your dog, making weight management easy.

[Monica Padman]

Can I say something really important and gross?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Sometimes I see it and I'm like, I could eat it.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I think that's the sign of a good dog food that you consider eating it yourself. Yeah. Which we're not advising you to do, but we do get that impulse. Plus, the Farmer's Dog provides 24,7 customer support from real people who really love dogs. You can get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy [e-mail] Dax plus you get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com Dax this offer is for new customers only. This message is brought to you by Apple Card Each Apple product, like the iPhone 16, is thoughtfully designed by skilled designers. The titanium Apple card is no different. It's laser etched, has no numbers, and earns you daily cash on everything you buy, including 3% back on everything at Apple. Apply for Apple card on your iPhone in minutes, subject to credit approval. Apple card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and [e-mail].

[Monica Padman]

Do you have an obsession with justice?

[Olivia Munn]

Obsessed with justice. What's right is right, what's wrong is wrong. And when people get it wrong, it's so difficult for me, especially when it happens. Personally. I remember working on a show and one of the other actors was telling me something that they thought was really unfair. And I would go and speak to the top guy and I'd be like, hey, this is happening. And it wasn't even my fight.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Olivia Munn]

And then I would kind of get chastised for it. And then he would do it again. By the third time or so I thought, oh, he's abusing this. He knows that I will get it done. But he doesn't have to take the.

[Monica Padman]

Fall or any of it. Yes.

[Olivia Munn]

And so that's where the justice thing has also bit me in the ass.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, me too. Big time. Sheriffs all over the place here.

[Dax Shepard]

Additionally, we're wrong a lot or it's 60% unjust and it's 40% just. And if I try on their glasses, I go, oh, I see why they acted like this.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I think within the sense of justice, you have to also be doing a lot of character assessment and you do a lot of, lot of contribution error syndrome. Like you make some kind of decisions about who they are, which explains this injustice. And then now we're like in judgment and all these other things.

[Olivia Munn]

Whenever a friend asks me for advice, the first thing I ask is, what is it you want? Let's just get to that part and then we can like backtrack from there. But what is it you want? And it always begins with understanding and sensitivity to the other person.

[Monica Padman]

Person. Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Given that was the environment you were living in, what kind of kid were you on all the rungs? And then we ultimately we moved back to Oklahoma for junior and senior year, which sounds like quite a endeavor if you've been in Japan for the last 10 years or seven years.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, it was hard.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So where were you at in the social hierarchy? What was your position? Because I'm going to say a lot of super gorgeous people will say they were wallflowers in high school. It's very hard to believe for most.

[Olivia Munn]

People, I think I was not a wallflower and I was never an ugly duckling when I got at this point. And I think it's probably the abuse that had happened to me growing up. I love Disney and I wanted to almost feel childlike, but I was also grown up in my head. So I would buy like a button up shirt that had the whole Disney gang coming out the side.

[Dax Shepard]

Cool.

[Olivia Munn]

It was mature.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

And I got to this school and there were some boys that noticed me and that brought down the ire of the girls.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you were the new gal. And all the guys were interested and so they were like, who's this bitch?

[Olivia Munn]

Not all the guys, but one of the popular guys or two.

[Monica Padman]

That's all you need two to really shake things up in a school.

[Olivia Munn]

And I got letters like, you're a slut. And it was really, really difficult for me. It got to a place where I started wearing baggy clothes. My sister had a Metallica shirt. I go, this is cool. They're going to think that I'm into this stuff and I'm tough. But the thing is, I was pretty tough. I was doing martial arts since I was four. And I have older siblings that was the fourth of five. So I was fighting with them a lot. And we got physical and I at this point was eating lunch by myself outside. And then they all came up to me and I was sitting in this outdoor area. There's like these cement steps. And I was sitting on the steps and here they walk up five or six of them. They were like, we think you're a slut. And I was like, why do you think that? What have I ever done? I've never even kissed a boy at this point. Like, what are you talking about?

[Dax Shepard]

We must have different definitions of slut.

[Olivia Munn]

And then they just reamed me over it. And then finally I was just so tired, I got up and I said, let's go. And they're like, go where? And I was like, let's fight. It's gonna be hard unless you guys come on one on one. So I'd prefer one on one, but let's go. Just that confidence. It's so embarrassing when I think about now, but I got into my karate stance.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, good for you.

[Olivia Munn]

Very like Karate Kid, where they're like, let's go.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

And I was just ready to grapple and then they stopped and turned away. And it wasn't until the next year when I was varsity cheerleader and homecoming princess. Oh, you wow, you got it. Really turned it around. And they wrote me a letter saying, sorry for everything.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. See, here's the problem. You get rewarded for these moments. I like that about myself.

[Olivia Munn]

It solidifies your choices were effective.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep. And then that somehow is now stitched into your identity. And then now, weirdly, I was manifesting those situations. Cause I like it about myself. I don't back down or I stand up for people. And then that's just a dangerous road to be on where my identity is kind of dependent on me proving my break. Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

Well, also what has happened to me is when I've needed to advocate for myself or speak up for myself or try to correct a narrative, that thing comes up in me, which is the negative things that my stepfather would say. Even though as a kid, I fought back. You can't say that to a kid without them thinking that. And you can't abuse a kid without them thinking that they're worthless. And you can't see your mother powerless without you feeling also powerless. So I felt really powerful for other people. If I was part of an overarching theme like Asian hate or the MeToo movement, I'm like, yes, I can do this. But if it's me personally. Yeah, the feeling of worthlessness.

[Monica Padman]

And when you're fighting on behalf of other people, you can see things a little more objectively. And when it's you, it's easy to say, like, well, maybe they're right. Maybe whatever they're saying that you know is wrong. But are they wrong? You know, it just starts this chatter.

[Olivia Munn]

But the truth is, I always wanted, and I still do, I want to defend myself against things.

[Dax Shepard]

This runs the risk of offending you, and I hope it doesn't. I think I see in you a similarity that I have when I started getting attention from, like, high status girls and they were generally older than me. There's never been a sweeter nectar to me than the approval of the opposite sex. If they're high status, do you have that at all?

[Olivia Munn]

It would be the opposite. It would be getting the respect from what? Women who are people my same age, older women that I respect, because those are the people who targeted me.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, that makes more sense. But you were smart. You got great grades.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, I worked hard to get the grades. My siblings are very, very, very smart. My sister's partner for law firm. My younger brother just became a physicist in France. And they're just brilliant. And I was not like that with them because I had a stepsister who's the same age as as me, she would always be in every honors class, every AP class. And so my mom would be like, well, you have to.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, what's going on?

[Olivia Munn]

And especially being Asian, she's like, you have to.

[Dax Shepard]

What a shameful event.

[Olivia Munn]

So I worked really, really hard and I got really good at cheating.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't suspect you.

[Olivia Munn]

So that's me either.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's a good twist.

[Olivia Munn]

The energy that it took for me to come up with my own way to cheat, I could have learned the stuff.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Olivia Munn]

Like, I came up with a whole Alphabet of dashes and dogs for math formulations. And I would put it on the chalkboard in between classes when the teacher had gone for a break. I would literally be able to read the dashes.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Yeah. That is far more complicated than probably.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that is what an equation is. It's just like symbols.

[Dax Shepard]

Symbols representing quantities.

[Olivia Munn]

But I couldn't remember it. I had to look at it again. I'm putting myself into a high stress situation.

[Dax Shepard]

Which you like.

[Olivia Munn]

Which felt comfortable. I didn't like it.

[Dax Shepard]

You felt at home.

[Olivia Munn]

I think unconsciously I just kept doing that.

[Dax Shepard]

I like chaos to some.

[Olivia Munn]

I mean, John and I will happily gossip about other people's chaos. We're just like, oh, my God. One time we were doing that drive from Montreal. He goes, okay, let's crisis PR this couple. And we spent the whole time, and it was so much fun. Sometimes something will come up in the press about them. I'm like, what do you think? And he was like, I mean, we already worked it out. And I think that they have no path forward. He's like, they can keep doing this, but it's not going to help them.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. Do you watch Couples Therapy?

[Olivia Munn]

I love that show.

[Monica Padman]

It's the best.

[Olivia Munn]

I wish they did it. All of you, year round. People need therapy year round.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Olivia Munn]

It's interesting because some people get so obvious what they're doing and you're like, can you not see this?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, like the narcissist.

[Dax Shepard]

But then you have to go, and it's so obvious what I'm doing. The humiliating part of watching that show, which I love, is like, yeah, and so are you and so is everyone.

[Monica Padman]

And, like, participating in the cycle.

[Dax Shepard]

There's some unavoidable patterns.

[Olivia Munn]

I was with a therapist once where I'm like. And then what am I supposed to do? And he's like, well, what do you think you're supposed to do? I was like, no, no, no. You are the expert. You tell me what to do.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. That's why I'm paying you.

[Olivia Munn]

And they would just be like, no, but this is your journey. I'm like, my journey brought me to your fucking couch.

[Monica Padman]

My journey wants answers.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then finally, I found one who doesn't tell me what to do, but gives me the scenarios. Like, you could do this, this, or this.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

But don't you think this is representative out of that space? It transcends the therapy space you've been on especially, I would imagine, like, the Newsroom three seasons. You have a bunch of different directors come through, and you're in the makeup trailer, and you're talking about who likes the director and who doesn't. And this was my experience on Parenthood, and there's so many of us to hear from. And it's like, oh, yeah, there's no way to direct people. Every time a new director comes in, eight of us love the person. Four people hate the person. There's someone that's the perfect therapy for.

[Olivia Munn]

On the Newsroom, specifically with the directors coming in and out, there was a director. So first season, I got a lot of. For my performance on that.

[Dax Shepard]

I loved you on it.

[Olivia Munn]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I love that show so much.

[Olivia Munn]

That means so much. I love that show so much.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was happy for you. Cause I think we also have a similar pattern of coming out of reality in brackets, having a chip on my shoulder. What's it like to act? I'm like, I was acting. I'm punk.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. I was a host. And when I went to the Daily show, which was a huge jump to have Jon Stewart give me that call, that was acting too. But on the Newsroom second season, I had realized because a lot of the directors were doing this, they kind of focus on me. Even though I'm like, I got such great response, like, what are you fucking with me for? My interpretation was that they wanted to come in and be like, oh, I'm working with this person, and I'm gonna put my little imprint on this character. And there was one director who came in multiple times. There was a storyline where my character and Tom Sadoski's character are dating and falling in love. He kept trying to force me to carry that storyline only on my side. Like, I'm in the middle of working, and I've got this new Bloomberg machine, and I'm so excited. And he's like, can you look out at him and smile? And I'm like, why she's bus doing this? Or can you stop and snuggle up to him or flirt with him or can you give him a kiss? And I'm like, this is in the middle of working. There was one time where my character finds out that he's done insider trading with some information I got him. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? This is insane. And they were like, I don't think that you're that angry with him. It's kind of funny.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Insider trading is kind of funny?

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

I just fought back so much. And then it got to this place where there was one scene and I was like, no. He said, look, it's my job as a director to see all the different colors of the rainbow. You are looking at only one color, and I don't think you realize how you're coming off. And I said, how am I coming off? And he said, really forceful and strong. And I said, great, that's what I wanted, and walked away.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

And then I got a knock on my trailer from one of the producers, and they said, hey, hey, I see that there's an issue. And I've heard from the director, there's a bit of an issue, and you guys are kind of butting heads. And I was like, this is what's going on. Why am I being.

[Dax Shepard]

Can you go talk to him?

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. And I'll tell you, I was happy with what I did instead because I would have been the one. People would've been like, oh, look at her character. Look how she's playing it. They wouldn't even care if I even said it was him. So I just stayed to my convictions. And then afterwards, I was on the one yard line for the movie, and my manager calls me and says, hey, you're gonna get the role. But first, I guess there's another director who they know. And he says that on the newsroom, you were late all the time and really combative.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, he threw late in there.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. Added a little sprinkle. It was just at sunset.

[Olivia Munn]

Gower. I live seven minutes from there. I was never late. And I was like, I know who this is. He just was trying to bash me. And I told my reps, please tell the directors this. And then I still got the role. But I will always remember that just because of our conflicts of how we.

[Dax Shepard]

Approached a role, your creative differences.

[Olivia Munn]

He wanted to ruin my chances of getting anything else.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. That's a dark impulse.

[Monica Padman]

It's just this business is so hard because everyone's trying to make their mark. Everyone's trying to get credit. That director on the show wants something different so they can point to and say, like, that's my work. I'm the reason that X, Y, and Z happened as hard.

[Olivia Munn]

Obviously, when you start in this business, there is the hope of making your mark and getting to a certain place. But this kind of dynamic that I had experienced for so long has really changed the way that I think about my career and what I want. And I truly just want to do great work that I'm happy with, and I want to live an easy, happy life. I don't need to get to the next echelon.

[Dax Shepard]

You turned down Deadpool.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow, wow, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

You get X Men at the same time, or was it an either or?

[Olivia Munn]

It was X Men after that, Deadpool, they wanted me for the wife. And Simon Kinberg reached out and Ryan Reynolds sent me an email. At that time, the stuff I was getting offered was always the female character wouldn't exist if the male character didn't exist.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right.

[Olivia Munn]

And Ryan sent a strong pitch for it. But that's this whole thing of the morality thing. I was like, nope, I'm only going for these types of roles. Yeah. Deadpool became a huge hit, and it's a great movie. Yeah. It's all across the board.

[Dax Shepard]

So big win.

[Olivia Munn]

Big win for them. I mean, it's gone on a million times. They have so many sequels to that.

[Dax Shepard]

And possibly they keep getting better, too.

[Monica Padman]

But you can't feel too bad about that because you had a reason, and that reason was real. It wasn't like they didn't offer you enough money. Okay, well. Or not.

[Olivia Munn]

No, no, no, no, no. I heard Amanda Seyfried say the other day that she turned down some big role. I don't know which one it was, but it was a really big movie. And she was like, but I don't regret it because that's what I needed to do for that time in my life.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

It's because I'd made decisions based off of this thing in me that was like, nope. I didn't really think through those. That's why I think on certain things that I've done, I'm like, what was I thinking?

[Dax Shepard]

I made a lot of my decisions. Coming from a place of feeling less than now. Of course I knew you had breast.

[Olivia Munn]

Cancer because I had told you guys.

[Dax Shepard]

But I guess I hadn't realized until today, until I was learning more about it, is that you had gotten a negative mammogram, you had gotten a negative ultrasound. You were negative for the BRCA gene, and then you took this Test.

[Olivia Munn]

It's called the lifetime risk assessment test. It's for breast cancer. It's free, it's online. It takes minutes. You don't even have to put your email in.

[Dax Shepard]

So it's a questionnaire.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. It asks you, like, have you had children? How old were you when you had your first child? How old were you when you had your period? Anybody else in your family? Family have cancer? Breast cancer. And then it gives you this percentage, and anything above 20% is considered high risk. You were 37.37.3.

[Dax Shepard]

What even prompted you taking that?

[Olivia Munn]

My doctor, Dr. Taiga Saliabadi. She is an icon. There's no other doctor that I know that's like her. She is so proactive. She spends so much time with you. And she says, I do this thing called the lifetime risk assessment test, and my score came out high. And so she said, go get an Mr. When I had come out about this test and it just reached so many.

[Dax Shepard]

Places around the world, the test went up by 4,000%. People taking the test.

[Olivia Munn]

And she called me crying and saying, this has been my mission for my whole life. I knew that it wasn't something that people knew about, but I had no idea it was, like, such a passion of hers and how much it would save my life and so many others.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Once you go and get an mri, just for starters, I guess I'm shocked that you have to get to MRI level before that that would be discovered. But once you get an mri, what do they find?

[Olivia Munn]

So I go in and the radiologist calls me that same day, and he says, I think there's something on your right breast, and I want you to go get an ultrasound. So then I go get the ultrasound, and then the doctor there is saying, I think I found two more. Oh, wow. So then they go. Go in right now to get a biopsy. And they were concerned because with breast cancer, they think of your breast as quadrants. So imagine an X ray through it, and if you have multiple tumors in one section, that's not as abnormal. But now mine was multi quadrant, and multifocal is multiple ones. So multi quadrant, multifocal.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Olivia Munn]

So I get the biopsy, and they said, let me take a few days to get it back to you. And Dr. Thais Ali Body's office called and said, come in to see her. She was like, it's cancer. It's stage one, and it's. It's not normal for it to be in this many areas. So I'm gonna guess that it's in Your other one, too. And I had called different friends of mine who were doctors around the world. Cause I was just like, tell me something good. And they were like, there's no way it's bilateral. It's so unique, and you're too young. And then my surgical oncologist went back to my original mri and he said, I think there's something there. And then they had me do an MRI biopsy, which is like you're lying down on this machine and you. You go into this thing, they kind of position it, they circle, and the robot goes in and takes it and comes back out. Yeah. Then they call and they said, it is bilateral, multifocal, multi quadrant breast cancer.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, really quick, I do imagine most people who get a diagnosis have felt some kind of symptoms. It must have been such a shock you couldn't have been feeling.

[Olivia Munn]

No, no, no, no. Not at that place that's almost scarier.

[Dax Shepard]

Because then you're like, God, I don't even. My body won't even tell me.

[Olivia Munn]

So scary. You know, like when you realize how lucky you are, but you're still so scared. The aftermath.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. If you're about to fall in front of a bus and someone, sure, you have gratitude, but then you're also going through the panic of you can see what that was.

[Olivia Munn]

And also, did this come out of my breast and gone to anywhere else in my body?

[Dax Shepard]

And you already had Malcolm.

[Olivia Munn]

I had Malcolm. He just.

[Dax Shepard]

So now the stakes are a million times higher. Like, I've not valued my life at all until I had kids.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. And after they did my double mastectomy, they do this thing called margins where they take the tumor and they have the tissue and they look to see how far out it goes before they clear margins. So they go like, oh, you had clear margins after X amount of centimeters or something.

[Dax Shepard]

Exactly.

[Olivia Munn]

So they end up finding a tangerine size section of more cancer.

[Dax Shepard]

This just happened to a friend of mine where it's like she went in for one thing. They got in there and then, lo and behold, it had grown all the way up into her arm.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dax Shepard]

And it was enormous.

[Monica Padman]

How are they not catching this earlier?

[Olivia Munn]

You know, mammograms are amazing. They have saved countless lives, but they're not perfect. That's why Dr. Ali Body talks a lot about AI in the medical field. She's like, they can spot it way, way before a doctor can with the naked eye. And with mine, it's a fast moving, aggressive kind of cancer. So there is a reason why it was all Over. And I wouldn't have another mammogram for a year because I had just had it. I don't know how much it would have spread like your friend, what stage it would be at. And that determines your path forward or counting days. There's so many people who given this diagnosis and don't have the opportunity to fight. They literally are given a calendar and been like, here are your days left. And I'm just so grateful that there was a path forward for me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Did you have to do chemo at all after?

[Olivia Munn]

No, because it didn't make it to my lymph nodes.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Olivia Munn]

Specifically because I opted for a full double mastectomy with both breasts. So some people do lumpectomies. It's a much easier procedure. But because I had so much, I wanted to be really aggressive. And I didn't have to do radiation either, because when you do lumpectomy, you've got to do radiation.

[Dax Shepard]

When I was taking my dad to chemo, I was expecting to walk into this chemo facility and see a bunch of people like my dad. Heavy smoker men. He was almost always the only man in there, and it was just all young women. And I was just like, oh, my God. This is so much more epidemic than I gave it credit for. And it's young.

[Olivia Munn]

I remember going in so many doctor's appointments. There's so many. Many. And after my surgeries, I go into the oncology section. It's shocking how many people you see there that are sickly, like, actually look sick.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

It stops you in your tracks. And especially when you're somebody going through it, you're looking at what could be you.

[Dax Shepard]

You're on the same highway, and they're at, like, a different exit.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. And I'm like, fuck, am I going to be exiting on their exit? Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's getting younger and younger. Breast cancer. There's, like, a new wave of cancers that are affecting younger people, and it's so scary.

[Olivia Munn]

It is scary. And I think that's why early detection matters so much.

[Dax Shepard]

And you've had five operations as a result of this?

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, I had a lymph node dissection to check my lymph nodes. I had a nipple delay. It's elective, but it gives me a better shot of keeping my nipples. Because when you do a mastectomy, you cut through, like, blood vessels, and that is bringing oxygen to your nipples. So they do this special surgery. I'm gonna say it wrong, but, like, you're doing something to the blood vessels to open them up and make them strong, stronger. You do it 10 days before your mastectomy, and that way, it's like you have a better shot. Which worked for me. Then I had the double mastectomy. Then I had reconstructive surgery. And then the medicine that I was on had to reduce my ovary hormone production.

[Dax Shepard]

This is where they force you into menopause.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. I'm still on another medication. That's why I have that rash on my leg. And I've had hives, and I have exhaustion.

[Dax Shepard]

Ew.

[Olivia Munn]

And that's why also, I spend a lot of time in bed and on the couch. But I'm really trying to just ignore it and be like, it doesn't matter, and keep pushing forward. But the. The one that I first took was Lupron. It's a monthly shot, and it's a bully.

[Monica Padman]

I had to take that for egg freezing.

[Olivia Munn]

I did egg freezing. I don't remember it, but I guess it would make sense. Cause it messes with your ovaries.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

How many eggs did you get? Do you mind me asking?

[Monica Padman]

No, of course. I did it twice. I did not have good results. I had two eggs the first round and seven the second round. So I have nine total. It was not a great experience for me. I mean, I'm glad I got what I got.

[Olivia Munn]

What doctor did you use?

[Monica Padman]

I went through USC. The Keck. Dr. Kevorkian, have you heard of, was one of those things. I was like, do I do it again? Like, how many times do I do this to, like, accumulate all these eggs? And then I was just like, you know, this is it. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, we got 10.

[Olivia Munn]

I decided to do an oophorectomy, which is a procedure that takes out my ovaries, which put me immediately into a surgical menopause.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And a hysterectomy.

[Olivia Munn]

I also had a hysterectomy. I had my uterus and fallopian tubes taken out. I just want to mitigate the risk that I get cancer somewhere else. And those are big places to get cancer. And if I had any signs of HPV on my cervix, I would have taken that out, too. But if you take out your cervix, you have a higher chance of prolapse when you get older.

[Dax Shepard]

That kind of makes sense. It's kind of like the tether holding everything up at the top.

[Olivia Munn]

It's like the cap. When you have a double mastectomy, your breast implants have to be circular, because when you have an augmentation they can do, like Kylie Jenner just talked about. It's a teardrop half under, half over the muscle. It's a whole thing, which makes it look natural. But if it's oval and if it turns, then you've got the oval going horizontal. Right. So they have to do round so that they can spin in place if.

[Dax Shepard]

They need to spin in the event that spinning's required.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, that I'm breakdancing. They usually have to go larger than what you would ever want because you have to fill up with breast tissue and all of that. Right. If not, they're gonna just kind of hang down. And so I had begged my surgeon, go as small as you can. You can sometimes see the implant through your skin. It kind of looks like this pulling, wrinkling kind of thing. But I was like, I don't care. I don't care. And John wouldn't care. So I was like, I just don't care. Care. And so he told me that he was in surgery and he put the smallest one in. And they turned to his assistant, and he said, I think we can go smaller. Because the last thing I said as I was going into that surgery was, please go smaller. Actually, the last. Last thing John has this video of me. I had just read a book on Jackie O, and I was talking about Jackie O had so much anxiety. She just said, you just live this hard life. And I turned to the anesthesiologist. I go, you look like you don't have anxiety.

[Monica Padman]

Like, you look.

[Olivia Munn]

You're pretty good. And then John was like, oh, my God. So he starts recording, and as they're wheeling me out, I was like, hey, I'll see you later. And John was like, bye, I love you. And I went like this, and I just threw up the peace sign. It's like deuces. I'm out.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm out. Yeah, I'm high and I'm out.

[Olivia Munn]

Gosh.

[Monica Padman]

So are you on, like, the creams and stuff that everyone who's talking about menopause now is saying, like, we all need to be doing?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, she can't, right?

[Olivia Munn]

Exactly. But there are a lot of things that I can do to combat the symptoms of menopause. Menopause. I can't put hormones in my body like testosterone. There's a testosterone in our body that turns into estrogen, and that can really exhaust me to have that depleted. And I can get aches and pains, and I get hot flashes and the chill, which is kind of a cold flash.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

And Then the medicine can give me like hives and rashes. At first I was so frustrated with it. Last year, tried this medication. So angry. I had the shortest fuse.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Irritable.

[Olivia Munn]

Everything that I was mad about, I would say is justified. But normally I'd be like, oh, this is annoying. It was like, this is not okay.

[Monica Padman]

Unacceptable.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. So mad. On our flight home after having our daughter, I broke down crying. And I hadn't really said this to John because I hold a lot of stuff like that in.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you gotta be strong or people will take advantage of you.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. And I remember just looking at him and I was like, can we talk? And I just broke down crying. I said, I am in so much pain, I don't know how to stop. And I said, I don't like being angry, but I feel it all the time. He's like, do you ever feel happy? Because it seems like you've been happy. Like when our daughter's born. I go, yes, yes, yes. There are times when I'm happy. But even when I was happy, I felt like I had my hand on a door and there was a monster trying to get in at any moment. So even though I was happy, it was ever present. And that's why anything could set me off. And so then I said, I don't think I can do this anymore. I think I'm gonna have to roll the dice and hope that it doesn't come back. Cause you're supposed to take this for five years. And he said, let's think about this. Let's go to your oncologist. And then she brought me onto another medication that gave me full blown anxiety. Oh, like physical anxiety. I couldn't take full breaths. So then I have decided to go back to exhaustion.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. That's the original one of all evils.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

We had an expert on it and she told us that the percentage of women who attempt suicide is the highest during perimenopause.

[Olivia Munn]

Wow.

[Monica Padman]

Because of that. Because there's like so much happening with your hormones and anger and no one knows that that's what's happening.

[Olivia Munn]

My postpartum was extremely difficult. On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd put it at a hundred. And I'm not kidding, I'd wake up every day at 4am Gasping for air and feel tightness in my chest all day long. And I felt like I was not even dying. Like the feeling if you get if you were. That's what I felt like all day long. And I found out later because I couldn't make Breast milk, as I told you guys. So I decided to stop completely. It's so much processed.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It's just guilt and self hatred.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. And I was like, I'm gonna give him formula and I'm gonna be happy about that and fuck everyone else who's telling me that I can only feed my baby with one certain way. Every mother should do whatever they need to do to feed their babies and not feel any guilt. But when you stop breastfeeding, your whole hormones drop. And if you wean off like a lot of people do, it's not gonna hit you. But I went from breastfeeding, even if it was a little bit, to not, and that's what spun me into my spiral. And I didn't even talk about it. And it also goes into another topic, which is when you open yourself up to people asking you questions or speculating on your life, it's like, how much did you share? And then are you allowed to share but then expect privacy at the same time?

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right, right, right. Yes. That's the dance. You're. I want to be open with you, but I want to control the reaction to my openness.

[Olivia Munn]

It's also like with your relapse, you know, you talk about it so much on this show, and then you've gone through something so personal that you had a lot of shame about, and you're like, do I talk about this? Am I ready to talk about this? When do I talk about this? Do I owe this to anybody? I've already invited them in. I've already talked about this so much.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I think I had already crossed that bridge, which is why it felt like I didn't really have a choice. Yeah, if I were to have any integrity, I couldn't be receiving all the praise for it. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. You know how we all have that one friend that weirdly knows a ton about finances and is always down to help you with yours? Of course you don't. We're all lost and alone, and it's terrifying. Well, not anymore. Meet Experian, your bff. And by that I mean big financial friend. I'm telling you, Experian is gonna be your go to app when it comes to handling finances like crazy. A grown up and this big financial friend always brings the DTF energy down to fix things. That is The Experian app finds ways to help you save, matches you with credit cards, and even shows you your FICO score when you're up for it. Bet your other BFFs can't bring it like that, huh? Anyway, it's easy to take this big financial friend along for the ride. Just download the Experian app and get started for free. Link up with your BFF and before. Before you know it, you'll be finishing each other's finance goals. Results will vary. Credit offers, approvals and reward Programs based on FICO score 8 model and subject to lender terms. Offers not available in all states. See experian.com for details.

[Monica Padman]

There's some incredible TV coming out of.

[Olivia Munn]

The UK right now.

[Monica Padman]

Brits just do it differently.

[Olivia Munn]

The accents, the wit, the scenery, the.

[Monica Padman]

Devastating one liners disguised as contrast compliments.

[Olivia Munn]

It's all streaming on Britbox.

[Monica Padman]

They have the best mysteries, dramas, comedies.

[Olivia Munn]

And seriously addicting originals like Outrageous.

[Monica Padman]

Based on the true story of the Mitford sisters. They were kind of like the Kardashians of the 1930s. Wealthy, audacious, chaotic, wildly opinionated and always making headlines. And chances are you've never heard their story.

[Olivia Munn]

Story.

[Monica Padman]

It's stunning. It's jaw dropping, it's very British. So check out Outrageous.

[Olivia Munn]

It could be your next favorite. Don't miss Outrageous. Streaming now only on BritBox. Did you know that parents rank financial.

[Monica Padman]

Literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance.

[Olivia Munn]

And keep an eye on your kids.

[Monica Padman]

Spending with real time notifications. Kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely and parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight Risk free [e-mail] wondery.

[Olivia Munn]

You said something to me and I was with Bradley in Paris.

[Dax Shepard]

Uh huh.

[Olivia Munn]

You said something to me then that really opened my mind in a different way. It stays with me and I think about it often. You're talking about addiction and how at one point you were going from like girl to girl. You're dating a new girl, new girl and you had this epiphany. Or maybe somebody told you that you keep looking for this high of something and you are chalking it up to but I want a new experience and I want to experience new things in the world, in the life. But you are not getting a new experience. It's the same experience over and over and over. You're just putting in a different person.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's the illusion of novelty.

[Olivia Munn]

Exactly. And you said what I've never done before is stay in a relationship for X amount of years. What I've Never done is walk my daughter through the park.

[Dax Shepard]

That trip where we saw each other, Kristen was about to have Lincoln in March and we were there in January. So it was, oh, this'll be the very last time I can go see a buddy in another country. It was that kind of trip.

[Olivia Munn]

And I don't think that we knew that she was pregnant or I don't think it was in the world that she was pregnant.

[Dax Shepard]

No, probably not.

[Olivia Munn]

So I remember when you said that and I thought, oh, that's right. Like when you're doing the same things, you think that you're doing something different, but it's the same experience. And then at some point I'd heard that you guys had the baby and it really impacted me. You were imagining yourself. But I think that's a big part, is like, can you imagine yourself doing something different? And if you. You've already set your mind on I do this. You're only going to do that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And drinking. Had that too, is like, I'd be at the bar. I've gone there to have a novel experience. I've had my normal day. Now I want to go have a fun drinking day. And I'm at the bar and I'm reading the fucking label on the Budweiser bottle for the millionth time. Cause I'm bored. And I'm like, oh, yeah. There's nothing novel about. If anything, it guarantees that I'll never do anything differently again.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. Well, that's delightful. That made me so happy. Oh, I'm happy like that. Okay, let's talk about friends and neighbors. I love it.

[Olivia Munn]

You do?

[Dax Shepard]

It's fucking awesome.

[Olivia Munn]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's so good.

[Olivia Munn]

Thank you so much.

[Dax Shepard]

And then I'm wondering, do you have this thought too? It's like, I love it. It's about the 1%. Everyone has a perfect house, everyone's got a rad car, they're a member of a club, and the whole nine. And I find myself uniquely interested, or I think it's uniquely interested because I know a lot of rich people now. And yes, the happiness didn't tip.

[Olivia Munn]

The themes of our show about how money doesn't buy happiness and how just a complete blind ambition can upend this constructs of wealth and privilege or loyalty or religious beliefs. You are just blinded by something you want. We all have experienced that. And so I think in that people can connect too. But the overarching kind of world that we're in, it's meant to be a peek into a world that most People can't see.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, what I like about it is it has a second gear. It was explored in White Lotus, too, which is. It's really crazy to have both the realization and the knowledge that it doesn't feel good and an insatiable desire to protect yourself from losing it. That's what's so fascinating to me is the second part, because you and Jon Hamm's characters are both in this situation where you're on the verge of losing your access to this world, which you've already been disillusioned by. We know it. In John's narration at the beginning, he just talks about the treadmill, and it's so familiar to everyone. You get the promotion, and you constantly move to places to make yourself poor again. And then you're finally at the place where you're not poor. So he's disillusioned. He knows, and yet he can't lose it. And then you're getting divorced. You were married to a rich dude.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. And my character is the only person who wasn't born into wealth. The way that Jonathan Tropper explained it to me when I first spoke with him about it, he said, these people are the ones who go to the right high school, go to the right Ivy League college because their parents went to that same Ivy League college, and because their dad, this hedge fund guy, you get to have this really great job at this hedge fund. Everything is set up for success for them. Then you get the big home, then you get the big vacation home. Then you get this car and that car and this watch. And there's this fragility of appearance that people aren't acknowledging when they have everything and how quickly it can slip away. And my character and John's character is. Is really examining how far someone will go when they lose it all in order to get it all back. And my character, I thought it was interesting because she's come from a blue Carla upbringing, so she knows how to live without this.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Olivia Munn]

But now that she does.

[Monica Padman]

Can't go back.

[Olivia Munn]

You can't go back. They always say that in your 20s, you're figuring things out, but you're off the mark. By your 30s, you're finding yourself, and by the 40s, you got it. And I wish that wasn't as true as it is.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

With my children, I want them to have struggles because that's to learn. However, I want to be able to tell them, hey, don't spend as much time on relationships as I did. Fuck that. Like, it's not gonna. But then you know they need to.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep.

[Olivia Munn]

But I think if I was given more of a heads up, I think I would have made different choices in the lessons. When it have taken so long.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know though. I guess there's no way to know, but I don't think so. I think someone can tell you everything and you just gotta do it.

[Olivia Munn]

You are right about that. But I like to think I would have done things differently.

[Dax Shepard]

No. I'm so stubborn. I know that even if I had a time machine and I personally went back to Dax at 28 and told him a truth, 28 year old Dax would not give a fuck.

[Monica Padman]

You wouldn't be you without those things. That's the irony of all of it. That's how you get to the place you're at.

[Olivia Munn]

This is in the same vein of everything happens for a reason which I strongly do not believe in.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I'm not a fan of that either.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. And so some people like when I've been in relationships for too long and I've had friends go, but that's how much time you needed to like figure things out. And I go, fuck that. I actually knew a year in.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

But my own personal drama led me to stay in that. And that is something that I think that if I had been aware of what childhood trauma does to you earlier, I would have made different decisions because I know people who make the decision I wish I would have made. So it's clearly possible.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. I throughout this entire interview. Another projection I'm making onto you. I love it is I think you have a huge fear of the other shooting dropping.

[Olivia Munn]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And I have that too. When it's happy. That's weirdly the most dangerous time for me when there really is a villain. Which I've been hyper vigilant and preparing for. I've been practicing that I know how to handle that. But happiness is like, oh, I know what's next. Every time I was happy, something bad comes. Yes. And I think that's. That's as hard to shake and maybe even harder to shake than the whole financial insecurity thing. That's a rough one.

[Olivia Munn]

When I was diagnosed, I didn't realize this till a year afterwards or so when I got the diagnosis. Immediately the negative thoughts in my head. I dropped all of that because when you are diagnosed with cancer you have.

[Dax Shepard]

One job and streamlines your priorities pretty quickly. Right.

[Olivia Munn]

And that's all your mind is thinking about. How do I get through this? How do I get through this, how do I live? How do I survive? Because there's no way to climb Everest with extra baggage on your shoulders. And I'm like, oh, now that it got to the other, I can't imagine picking it back up. However, your old behaviors and old thoughts and patterns creep in. Years ago, I was in this almost plane crash situation, and I was on the Daily show. And I remember I got back to the Daily show, like, a few days later, and I was telling John this story, and he was like, what did you do in that moment? And I said, I saw the flight attendant drop to her knees crying, holding on as the plane was, like, shaking.

[Dax Shepard]

They're like the parents on a flight, if they start crying. You know, you're really fast.

[Olivia Munn]

The oxygen things come down. It was the whole.

[Dax Shepard]

The platinum package.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. Extreme fear unlocked. And then I kept saying to myself, I don't want to die. I don't want to be in the plane crash. And then it was like, oh, wait, I don't have an option. This is happening. And then the first thing I did was I had a BlackBerry and I removed the battery from the phone because we were above the water, and I thought, when we get into the water, I want to be able to put my phone back together to call for help.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah. And John.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's some real clear things.

[Olivia Munn]

And he knew I had a lot of anxiety because I had talked to him about it, and he said, you see, when it mattered most, you didn't have anxiety. You didn't panic. And I was like, oh, my God. When it mattered most, I didn't panic.

[Dax Shepard]

We suffer. Yeah. We suffer in our imagination more than we suffer in our mind.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. We were just talking about this with someone else. Anxiety is about the future. You can't have anxiety in the present when you are dealing with something that's right now, there's no anxiety. You're just dealing.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Just handle your business.

[Olivia Munn]

So that's what cancer did for me. I could not think about it was. It was literally one step at a time. Right. So when I have the thoughts that creep in, I think very quickly, let it go.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Back to the whole money thing. Someone could easily make an argument that. Yes. Me waiting for the shoe to drop. I made it drop. Like, I don't think it's a coincidence. I relapsed shortly after the money thing.

[Olivia Munn]

Interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

I was like, I don't trust this. This is too good to be true. Again, none of this would ever be conscious. But it's just interesting that I kind of orchestrated a shoe drop.

[Monica Padman]

It's a self sabotage. It's like I can't lose it. So you kind of push the limit to see, can I?

[Olivia Munn]

I already know it's going to happen, so let me do it now. Why sit here and be anxious about it happening?

[Monica Padman]

Let's just get there fast.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's have the fight, let's have the confrontation. Okay. The last thing I want to talk about because I did not put in enough time on your friends and neighbors. I really, really love it. So it's examining the haves and the have nots and also the 1 percenters and the insanity, all of it. And then trying to hold on to it even if you don't like. That's all so fertile and juicy. The other thing that I find maddening is Jon Ham's character. He and his wife have become divorced, which, let's give Amanda Pete a shout out. I think she's so fucking great in it. Your guys scenes are so fun. And the dynamic that you guys have to play where you're his new girlfriend and she's the ex, all that stuff is so good. And I'm glad that you guys have a relationship.

[Olivia Munn]

We connected right away.

[Dax Shepard]

She's radical. I love her. But he just is marching through life and he's vindicated. She cheated on me. Can't fucking stop saying it. She fucked another guy. This is the guy who my wife. And I'm watching that and it's maddening to me.

[Olivia Munn]

Why?

[Dax Shepard]

Because the notion that the only explanation for a divorce would be someone fucked somebody ignores all of the things that really should cause a divorce, in my opinion. Like, were they completely isolated? Were they not meeting your needs? Were they not communicative? Were you alone with this person? All of these many elements. But it goes back to the sense of justice. And I have my plot point, I have my court case, which is she fuck somebody. And if I have that, I don't have to even evaluate why did she fuck somebody? Did I play any role in that? Am I complacent in that at all?

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, there are a lot more complications in any dynamic like that. My mom told me a long time ago that she wishes that she had not let my father come back. He already made this decision. And she even agreed. She's like, look, there were dynamics with us that didn't work for a marriage. And she didn't tell me until literally last year when we were talking about one of my close friends who she knows very well was going through a breakup and she wanted to get him back and we were talking about it and my friend was there and she said something that she'd never said to me before, which I think would have been so impactful, not just in relationships, but friendships and work and everything. She said, when someone has told you they want to break up, you have to let them go because they have already decided their life would be better without you. When you put yourself in their position, instead of being like, you don't want to end this friendship, you don't want to end this relationship, you're casting the wrong person, or you guys want me and what are you thinking? You've lost your mind, you're not thinking straight, or this is who I can be, I can change myself.

[Monica Padman]

It's too late.

[Olivia Munn]

You have to think about it from their position. Usually when someone does something, whatever it is, especially ending a relationship, a friendship, they have already done the thought process. This isn't a split second decision.

[Dax Shepard]

This is the verdict, not the court trial.

[Olivia Munn]

Yes. When people have already decided that their life would be better without you, that is a big, big thing that they're saying.

[Dax Shepard]

That is true and it is totally valid. But Kristen and I, years ago we were asking people, would you rather your husband or your wife cheat on you or drive your kids while they're drunk?

[Olivia Munn]

I mean, cheat on you.

[Dax Shepard]

You would hope that would be the answer.

[Olivia Munn]

What did most people say?

[Dax Shepard]

Most people chose drive kids drunk rough. And to me, that put into perspective a little bit. I think if you listed 10 things you wanted in a partner, you know, it'd be funny. Intellig, dependable, faithful. And as you found yourself in a marriage with them 10 years later, it's shocking to me that people will let like eight of those things completely disappear, go unnurtured, unfixed. And they'll live with that. And that's fine, they can accept that. But then this other thing happens, which is also on the list. Fidelity. And that is something that can't be overlooked, can't be worked out.

[Olivia Munn]

I definitely understand what you're saying because all of that under that umbrella is coming from some kind of pain or insecurity.

[Dax Shepard]

Insecurity, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But also a feeling of not being safe. I don't think we're giving enough credit to that. We're all just trying to have safety. And so the idea that someone could cheat or fall out of love with you, that actually love and relationships are very tenuous, is scary. For sure, you feel very unsafe.

[Dax Shepard]

But in this show, your friends and neighbors, at one point, John asks his ex wife if she's okay simply, are you okay? He can observe that she's really rattled. And she basically says, in our entire marriage, you never asked me if I was okay one time. And so for me, if I get to pick whether Kristen fucked somebody and I never knew about it in Atlanta versus she never asked me if I was okay for 10 years, I would definitely pick her fucking someone in Atlanta.

[Olivia Munn]

That moment, I thought was interesting, too. When I was reading the scripts, it's like, you never asked me. And I. I always think, well, I mean, even in real life, I've had that in relationships. Like, well, you never asked me this. I'm like, is that a thing? Then you tell me that you want me to tell you. And also what I think is important. You know, the other day I said that about something in my past that was coming up in the present, and I was like, well, you've never asked me more about this. He clocked, and he's like, oh, my God, I'm sorry. Because I wanted to receive it from you, and I wanted to be there to listen to everything. And I was like, yeah, but I need you to ask me more questions about. To kind of get the ball rolling. Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Help me.

[Olivia Munn]

Help me. And he didn't realize that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

And so now he brings it up in just random moments, but he can't read my mind.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Olivia Munn]

So you're saying, well, yeah, he hasn't been for this long. But I'm saying, she allowed it to go this long.

[Monica Padman]

She should have said, that's a need I have. Please meet it.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And if she stated it and he didn't address it, which is often happens in relationships, I just think it's interesting what we're willing to overlook and what doing. We're not. Yeah, I know. People have gotten divorces. They hated their partner for, like, six years, and then one of them cheated, and then they're out. I'm like, well, you should be out, but you should have been out six years ago.

[Olivia Munn]

Sometimes maybe it just gave them the excuse. Someone used to have a big break in moral. So you can say, this is not okay.

[Dax Shepard]

We need a blow for the scene.

[Monica Padman]

It's hard. It's hard to just be like, we're not good anymore. That's a really hard thing for people to come to terms with. I think it's much easier to be like, yeah, this big bad thing happens.

[Olivia Munn]

I've thought about why I would stay in uncomfortable situations for so long even if I was actively talking about how miserable I was. It's kind of like, our posture, when you hunch over, if somebody tells you to sit up straight and you try to sit up straight, it's kind of hard on your muscles. And you're like, this feels weird. This doesn't feel right. So you naturally want to go like this because this is more comfortable. But as you slouch and you're in this more comfortable position because you haven't strengthened your back muscles, you will keep hunching over and over and over. And as you get older, you keep hunching over. So to. To do the more uncomfortable thing is the right thing to do. But we so often spend our time in things that are comfortable in the short term. In the short term.

[Dax Shepard]

It's crazy how much of our life is governed by avoiding just a bit of discomfort.

[Monica Padman]

That's really true.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, this has been spectacular.

[Olivia Munn]

This is so much fun. I have been listening to you guys for years. I have to say, I love your new space.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, thank you.

[Olivia Munn]

Very, very pretty that you miss the attic. No.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, good.

[Monica Padman]

I thought there was a vibe it.

[Dax Shepard]

Was going the other way.

[Olivia Munn]

Visually, the attic was a lot for me to take in. Well, thank you for coming to this therapy session.

[Monica Padman]

Thanks for having us.

[Olivia Munn]

The door is right there. Please take some Pellegrino.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I'm so delighted there's a season two, because I love your show and you're fantastic on it. All right, Olivia.

[Olivia Munn]

Love you guys.

[Dax Shepard]

Adore you. Come back.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, Come back.

[Olivia Munn]

Okay. Tomorrow.

[Monica Padman]

Come back in an hour.

[Dax Shepard]

I sure have hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong.

[Monica Padman]

It's the last day of school.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my gosh. Did you wake up with a spring in your step?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I did.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I. I woke up like, it was the last day of school, and. And I was like, maybe I'll wear a wacky outfit. Sometimes you wear a wacky outfit. Like, you wear pajamas. Pajamas to school?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

I thought about wearing my pajamas, but then I thought, no, I'm gonna probably go get lunch after the. I'm gonna be free, and I don't think I should wear pajamas to wherever I go. What if I go to Sunset Tower.

[Dax Shepard]

And you don't want. Well, also cool.

[Monica Padman]

It could be.

[Dax Shepard]

You know that broad, she's. She wears pajamas. Like, she's eccentric. This is what people say.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that's what they would say.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You, like, always wore pajamas to Sunset Tower.

[Monica Padman]

I need. I have an update for people. The hotel canceled my reservation.

[Dax Shepard]

They did yes. What? How did it all shake out?

[Monica Padman]

I'm just, I have to double check to make sure that the credit card remove, you know, charge is removed. But they did cancel it.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And I am very, very, very appreciative.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I feel that I can return as a Rosewood as I like happy guest. As a very happy guest.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

So that was really nice. I feel guilty because I have a sense the show might be connected to that.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh. Uh huh.

[Monica Padman]

Potentially. It got back.

[Dax Shepard]

Uh huh. Yeah. And you don't want to wield your powers selfishly.

[Monica Padman]

I do want to, but I don't think it's fair for other people.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, this is the age old debate.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

This is like canceling prom because some people didn't get invited. It's like, oof.

[Monica Padman]

That just hurt.

[Dax Shepard]

One person got refund is better than no people got refunded.

[Monica Padman]

I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

I also think maybe this is just a twisted way for me to feel good about it. But I do think when things like this happen, sometimes it's a lesson for whoever is on the other side of this because you really, you don't know who anyone is who you're fucking with. You don't know who they will be. You don't know anything about them. So you should just always treat people as if they have a podcast.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. So I too woke up with that excitement. But also so many things to do.

[Monica Padman]

To leave a place people don't even know what's going on.

[Dax Shepard]

We're going on our summer.

[Monica Padman]

We have a summer kind of break.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm going in the bus up to Idaho.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And so there's a ton of packing that goes on in the bus. And I've been completely not involved because we've been working so much.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So today we finish and now I do. All the bus loading that the family's been doing for two weeks, I'll do in a few hours because now I've decided I'm. I'm definitely leaving tonight.

[Monica Padman]

Cool.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm very, very excited about being behind the wheel of the bus. I mean, I just can't wait. Especially you know my favorite thing about the buses. I'm completely unaccountable and I love it.

[Monica Padman]

What do you mean?

[Dax Shepard]

I'm driving a bus. So it's like I can't respond to an email, I can't respond to a text. I can't be asked to do anything because I. I can't do more than just drive the bus.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And my mental disposition is such that I need that kind of an excuse to really Feel totally free. I just go like, oh, this is all I'm doing. Looking at scenery go by. What'd you do last night?

[Monica Padman]

I did watch a little more last night of my sexy show.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Now, my friend who told me about this sexy show, who I wasn't outing, said I could out her.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

She wants to be known as the curator of sexy shows.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Kate Mara.

[Dax Shepard]

Kate Mara. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Kate taught me about this sexy show, and we've been discussing it a lot.

[Dax Shepard]

Taught me. What kind of discussions do you have?

[Monica Padman]

Mainly, like, I don't like doing this because I don't want to be negative, but I. But I mainly am. We send voice notes, and I mainly say, this show is bad, but I like it. Like, I want to keep watching it. It's kind of messing with my identity because I don't. I don't consider myself someone who hate watches things.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

I guess I understand it, but it's not my mo.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I've only had a couple of those.

[Monica Padman]

You had a couple?

[Dax Shepard]

There's a movie that we hate so much that we committed to watching it once a year. We haven't upheld that commitment, but we did watch it many, many times. And it's on a certain day of the year we're supposed to watch it.

[Monica Padman]

You did that?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. So I have one. And then, of course, the room. You're watching. Watching in on the joke.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But even that, like, I can only I can't. I'm not someone who can keep going back to that, like, fun for one time.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

But that's good, because there's too many good things to watch that I haven't watched.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But here we are.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Even though no one is redeemable. Like, I don't like either of the two main characters.

[Dax Shepard]

Do they have sex once an episode? Is it like a procedure? Procedural in that you're gonna get a shootout in a cop show, like, every five minutes. Every five minutes.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, there's multiple couples, so there's multiple sex scenes.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. Do you have a favorite couple?

[Monica Padman]

Well, in season two, when I just started, there's a professor storyline.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

Made for me. And he is hot. And he has an accent. He kind of looks like a foreign Bradley Cooper. He could be Bradley. Foreign cousin.

[Dax Shepard]

His foreign doppelganger.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

From what country?

[Monica Padman]

I'm not good at that.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Not England, though.

[Monica Padman]

I think so.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you're not even good. You can't even say if it's an.

[Monica Padman]

English accent for some reason. I think they're French based off of, like, Maybe one of the episodes I was half watching, but they. He sounds English.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

So. I don't know. It doesn't matter.

[Dax Shepard]

It doesn't matter. He's a professor.

[Monica Padman]

Absolutely doesn't matter.

[Dax Shepard]

He speaks the original language. He's a, well, Welsh actor.

[Monica Padman]

Welsh.

[Dax Shepard]

There you go.

[Monica Padman]

That makes sense.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. Great Britain.

[Monica Padman]

It reminded me. I don't know if I should say this.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

I like, really. I guess today it's like pants off, you know, saying everything.

[Dax Shepard]

Last day of school. Yeah. You gotta tell your crush, you like them, Your best friend, you love them.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. It reminded me that this crazy thing happened in college. There was a professor. There were two professors, a man and a woman. Sounds like the beginning of a riddle. Yeah. And they. They were new. The year that I. My freshman year, they came in to the theater department. One was an acting teacher and one was also in the theater department. But I don't know in what capacity exactly. I forget, like he taught some. Something else. I had all my classes with the woman because I was an acting actor. And we also had a grad program that had like 10 or 12, whatever, MFA students. They were young. Obviously, to me they were old. But in the middle of the year, one of the MFA students had an affair with the male professor and. And the female professor found out.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

And they're all like, she's in her class.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It was so dramatic. And I might be making this part up. I don't think I am.

[Dax Shepard]

I think I knew before it came out. Because you saw secret stuff happening between.

[Monica Padman]

I had an in with one of the MFA students.

[Olivia Munn]

She.

[Monica Padman]

She knew because she was friends with the girl.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Monica Padman]

And she told us.

[Dax Shepard]

What's your ethical position? Let's say this is a grad student.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So let's say there's a 23 year old lady or 22 year old woman.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And let's say the visiting professor was 30.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

What are your ethics on this?

[Monica Padman]

You mean like morally age wise?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, just the whole situation.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, age wise. Age wise is not as much immaterial. Yes. The issue is position of power. Position of power breach.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Mixed with. He's married and has children.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't know that part.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, they're married.

[Dax Shepard]

Sorry, the two teachers.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Oh, that was a huge No.

[Dax Shepard]

I thought it was just like a new professor.

[Monica Padman]

No, the two teachers were married. They came in together and they had two children.

[Dax Shepard]

That's. Then the people that heard me say, what's the morals of this? Think I'm insane. No, of course this is problematic.

[Monica Padman]

They were married.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And then he had an affair with one of the MFA students. And then this MFA student is in class with the wife.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, wow. Hard to get an A in that.

[Monica Padman]

And then there was, like. I feel like there was, like, a rumor that, like, the teacher had a gun. I mean, I'm. I feel nervous talking about this because.

[Dax Shepard]

These are still people and your details are, like. You're not super certain on it. I think you just said one of the teachers.

[Olivia Munn]

I.

[Dax Shepard]

That a gun. Is that what you're about to say?

[Olivia Munn]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, that sounds.

[Monica Padman]

Listen, that was part. There was, like, a gun in her car. Like, she started going. Obviously. Obviously. The. The female professor started going a little crazy because of this.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Understandably.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And. And it. But it. Look, it was complicated. The. The MFA student people are going to be mad at me for saying this was one wonderful. Like, she was such a nice person.

[Olivia Munn]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't have to be mean to have an affair.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But people think that. And also, like. Okay, how do I say this? He was hot.

[Dax Shepard]

That's another one of your faces. I'd be able to say if there were flashcards and it just had pictures of your face.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I could say what you were. What was going on. Yeah, I would. The face you just showed would be like, she's figuring out which details she's gonna let out in this next sentence.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. You were, like, running through. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Because I'm trying to.

[Dax Shepard]

So he was hot.

[Monica Padman]

He was hot. The professor, the woman. I felt like he was taking advantage of her.

[Dax Shepard]

Of the student or the wife?

[Monica Padman]

Well, I guess. I guess both.

[Dax Shepard]

But.

[Monica Padman]

But the student, I know in my heart, she felt so, like, this hot person likes me, and that's hard to resist. Anyway, it was just. It's kind of all heartbreaking, but it was dramatic, and I hate. It was fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. Yeah. Drama's fun.

[Monica Padman]

In the drama department, of all places.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Gossip's fun. We're kind of hardwired to like it.

[Monica Padman]

And me and my friend who knew about it were really, like, you know, keeping our. It was such an interesting thing to sort of follow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. That's another weird thing we enjoy, unfortunately, is, like, if we are in on a secret moment, most people are.

[Monica Padman]

We all like, why do we like that?

[Dax Shepard]

No, because I guess you're on the inside circle of something. Like, maybe there's status somehow attached to it, or trust.

[Monica Padman]

You feel trusted. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Trusted brand.

[Monica Padman]

Very trusted brand. We were trusted. We didn't tell anyone. Except now I'm telling a lot of people.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. But that was many years ago, and everything was probably. How did it end.

[Monica Padman]

Yours? You tell me.

[Dax Shepard]

You don't? No. The students stayed and got their masters. You think they got a divorce during that semester?

[Monica Padman]

It was my senior year. This all happened, so I. I don't know what happened after that. My guess is they got a divorce and she shot him.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God.

[Monica Padman]

I'm kidding. I'm kidding. That's not funny.

[Dax Shepard]

No, it's not funny. Stay tuned for more Armchair experts, if you dare.

[Olivia Munn]

Today is the worst day of Abby's life. The 17 year old cradles her newborn son in her arms. They all saw how much I loved him. They didn't have to take him from me. Between 1945 and the early 1970s, families shipped their pregnant teenage daughters to maternity homes and forced them to secretly place their babies for adoption in hidden corners across America. It's still happening. My parents had me locked up in the godparent home against my will. They worked with them to manipulate me and to steal my son away from me. The godparent home is the brainchild of controversial preacher Jerry Falwell, the father of the modern Evangelical rite and the founder of Liberty University, where powerful men, emboldened by their faith, determine who gets to be a parent and who must give their child away. Follow Liberty Lost on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, pivoting. Yeah, I saw something funny. I mean, not that I want to give him any attention.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But I did see.

[Olivia Munn]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I meant to save it, but I didn't. Fuck. It was a video of Trump talking about his very rich friend who's on the fat shot. Have you seen this?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I've sent that meme to people because it's got a quote from him. Yeah, he's like his friend who's super rich, but he says, really three terrible things about his friend. Like, most of his employees hate him. He's on that fat drug.

[Monica Padman]

He keeps calling it the fat shot.

[Dax Shepard]

The fat bat shot. And it's working for him. But he says, like, three negative things about his friend.

[Monica Padman]

Let's see if I can find it.

[Dax Shepard]

If you had a friend that describes you that way.

[Olivia Munn]

Oh, trying to explain the weight loss drug disparity, because that one's just so obvious and in a way that only Trump can take a listen to that one. I mean, I'll tell you a story.

[Dax Shepard]

A friend of mine who's a. A businessman, Very, very, very top guy. Most of you would have heard of him. Top guy. A highly neurotic brilliant businessman. Seriously overweight.

[Monica Padman]

Seriously.

[Dax Shepard]

And he takes the fat.

[Olivia Munn]

The fat shot drug.

[Dax Shepard]

He takes the fat shot. He called me up and he said, president. He calls me. He used to call me Donald. Now he calls me President. It's nice. Respect. But he's a rough guy. Smart guy. Let me ask you a question. What? I'm in London and I just paid for this damn fat drug I take. I said, it's not working.

[Olivia Munn]

He said.

[Dax Shepard]

He said. I said, it's not working. I just paid $88. And in New York, I pay $1300. What the hell is going on, by the way? Can you imagine if you were friends with the president? Like, I have these ethical dilemmas. I have access to people, and I would never. We interviewed Mayor Garcetti, and when we left, he said, here's my phone number. Of course, I would never, ever reach out to our mayor with any personal problem.

[Monica Padman]

Of course.

[Dax Shepard]

And the notion that I'd be friends with the president. And I call. I got to get the president on the phone. I'm in England right now, and I just spent $88 on my. My medication, and I spent 1300 bringing that small personal grievance to the president's attention.

[Monica Padman]

Well, this is a very rough guy.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a rough guy.

[Olivia Munn]

He's a neurobi.

[Monica Padman]

Severely overweight.

[Dax Shepard]

Severely overweight. Seriously, seriously overweight.

[Monica Padman]

I was happy. I was able to laugh because I did spend a lot of time in yesterday being very angry.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

At the current state administration. His administration. I probably will have to cut this because I don't. I don't. I want to put anyone in danger. But I was very upset yesterday based on some information I got about the current situation here with deportations. But then I was able to laugh at his just. He's just so ridiculous.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

He's so, so ridiculous. My mom, you know, I texted my parents about this update.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And, you know, there was a whole flurry back and forth, and my mom referred to Trump as dt.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that's what she calls him.

[Monica Padman]

I. I guess that's the first time I've seen that she has a nickname, and I got stressed out.

[Dax Shepard]

You didn't like that? What would you want her to call him? Just Trump.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, what about Maria the Orange president?

[Monica Padman]

If she said that would Debbie, that's also fine. But I prefer Trump because DT feels too. Like, this is YouTube inside. He's too YouTubey.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, she's YouTube. Generous.

[Monica Padman]

And then my dad responded by also calling him DT as a joke.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess they're doing it as a family.

[Monica Padman]

He was. No, his was a joke.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

It's so weird. God. Roll reversals. Like it's so weird my mom being on YouTube like this.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And you thinking she's on it too much.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Like I need to pull. Release her screen time.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, yes. And you do?

[Monica Padman]

I do. It doesn't work because I don't have power.

[Dax Shepard]

I had to have a very serious sit down with my mom about her news consumption to her credit. Because I also am of the opinion your parents are never going to change. It's always a waste of every syllable.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's just tension you don't need.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But with this sad. My mom was in a state that I felt, I felt warranted for me to offer this unsolicited advice.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Anyway she, she took it and she has like cut her news consumption by like 90%. She's so much happier.

[Monica Padman]

It's craz.

[Dax Shepard]

There are these, I've seen these studies pop up where it's like they have the empirical data that consuming more news is worse for your mental health.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, of course. But it is interesting. We've had a few people on who've referenced older people on YouTube and it's been like clicking with me that this is a thing. They're all on YouTube.

[Dax Shepard]

I bet the growth is exploding. Cause they're retiring. Your mom just retired. They have time and they have this phone in their hand and now they're full figuring it out and good for them. Old dogs, new tricks. I think what's interesting is people are really in the micro details of everything that happens in this country. Like you hear about something at any convenience store in any state. Now I'm following Iran, Israel really closely. I read everything I can about it that comes out trying to figure out like what is the overarching game plan. And I'm finding my friends are largely not interested in that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm a little I guess judgmental. I'm like, oh no, this one has real end life on planet Earth repercussions.

[Monica Padman]

Things affect people differently. I, I think it's okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm following accounts that like they've. They're on their 11th post about what's going to happen to the prices of gas in California.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And granite. Yeah. It's. We have way too much tax on our gas here. It's insane. It's going to go to $8 and it only punishes poor people. It doesn't matter. The rich people don't. Electric car so bad policy. I'm against it, but the notion that you'd have 10 posts about gas prices and you're not even interested in like a nuclear country at war with one that is. Expressed a desire to.

[Monica Padman]

It's.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like, it's. It's. There's something very, very dramatic happening. And I, I don't think people are.

[Monica Padman]

But they might not be getting served that information. They just might not even know. Like, oh, there's. Yeah, there's something happening, but I don't really know.

[Dax Shepard]

That's. My kind of point is like, we' navel gazy that. Like. Yeah, it doesn't make the algorithm. It doesn't make the.

[Monica Padman]

That's why everything's up.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

This is the problem. The He. He does create so much craziness that you don't know where to look and you get overwhelmed.

[Dax Shepard]

And that's what I'm always kind of raising. That's what I'm trying to raise a flag is like, it's. It's pageantry and it's performative and people are falling for it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But it's also not because he has people who, like, he is. He just says a. He doesn't know. He's just saying stuff. He's just saying what the person next to him is telling him to say.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I think he's really great at dropping little bombs that he knows the liberals will wind up the whole machine about. I think he's definitely in on that. He's. He knows how he's playing.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no. For sure. But. But I'm saying he. But he doesn't really care. Like, do I think he personally cares about immigrants in this country? No, I think he recognized people up.

[Dax Shepard]

He definitely recognizes. This is the point I keep making. And again, anyone's being deported. I'm not trying to minimize. It's absolutely horrible. But it's all symbolic. It's not a net increase in our deportations currently. And he knows we can't deport all these people that work in all these industries. He also understands the finances of it. He knows about farming. He knows about service and hotel.

[Monica Padman]

Then. Yeah. So now he's in a weird position where he's trying to backtrack some and it's confusing.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, he wants both. He wants to put on a play where his base says, yeah, he's going harder than anyone's going off, which is just not true.

[Monica Padman]

But Stephen Miller is not him. I guess that's. He's like, has people in charge that have real conviction about the thing itself and that's what's scary, you know, because I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

Those underlings will have a longer attention span than him.

[Monica Padman]

Anyhoo, back to my mom real quick, because I just felt ill of her. I love her.

[Dax Shepard]

I love her. Nermie is the best.

[Monica Padman]

She really is. And I.

[Dax Shepard]

She's a Southern woman. I love that about her.

[Monica Padman]

Southern belle.

[Dax Shepard]

She is.

[Monica Padman]

But listen, I've been thinking about her because we do so much revisionist history in our head about our families and especially our parents, I think.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And I had all of a sudden this, like, memory pop up. I don't know how it happened, but I. Maybe cause, er, aids, you know, all of that. I remember that my mom and I used to watch it a lot together. Yeah. In her bed. And then I was like, oh, yeah. We used to watch, like, hgtv, all the shows, and we used to watch all these things. And then I would make her scratch my arm and she would just scratch my arm for so long.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

We'll do that.

[Monica Padman]

And I do have. Which is so clear. It's unfair. I have this idea that there was, like, no affection. But there obviously there was. Yeah. And I think that intimacy really not good that I forgot.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I've done the same to my father.

[Monica Padman]

It's so bad. Oh, and I. When I was home last, I got. You know, I took some old pictures and there's, like, this picture and I framed it. It's of my mom and with her little baby, me, and she's, like, kissing me. And she's so affectionate.

[Dax Shepard]

She loved her little Monica.

[Monica Padman]

I know. She still does.

[Olivia Munn]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's just very, like, you know, we can't trust anything we think.

[Dax Shepard]

I know. And it's so unfair to everyone in our lives.

[Monica Padman]

It's so unfair.

[Dax Shepard]

I know. I've been trying to think of as much. As much time as I spend writing in my book, I spend time thinking of the foreword I have to write.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I need to say, like, these are 20 stories of literally 1 million and 999,000 of them were so fun and lovely and beautiful.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

But that's not what stories are made of. They're made of these 20 things I'm gonna tell you. But in general, it's so unfair to my mom and my dad.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Because I'm just taking out the interesting bits that happen to be kind of dramatic.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And the vast bulk of all of it was just unadulterated love.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'm so lucky. Minimally, both of my parents were wild about me.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And some people can't say that.

[Monica Padman]

A lot of people.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It's very upsetting. I feel bad. I feel really guilty. Good.

[Dax Shepard]

Keep watching your show.

[Monica Padman]

My sexy show.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, that's. Stick. Focus on that.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Someone has a bad mom in that show. Two bad moms.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure. They're usually a target.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

I know, I know.

[Monica Padman]

So unfair.

[Dax Shepard]

No good deed.

[Monica Padman]

God. All right. Yeah. Let's do some facts. Okay. So I looked up why malls are lit like that. A grievance.

[Dax Shepard]

Your grievance.

[Monica Padman]

A grievance.

[Dax Shepard]

We all have universal grievance. See, when you made it more specific, it made sense. It didn't make sense until you said the changing rooms.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, when you're trying on clothes.

[Dax Shepard]

When I use a mall, I'm picturing the big corridor you're walking down, not the stores.

[Monica Padman]

Well, it's basically this exact same lighting. And I don't understand that at all.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe how about this as reverse psychology? They want you to feel so ugly that you're like, I have to buy this thing to make myself feel better and I need something to cover up how ugly I am. My dysmorphia. Because what is the incentive to make everyone look bad?

[Monica Padman]

I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

Everything's a science now, isn't it? Like, they must know you look bad.

[Monica Padman]

Well, it might be part of why malls are shutting down all over the country. There aren't very many indoor malls left.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I think that's online. Re. That's. That's.

[Monica Padman]

But even the malls I think that live are outdoor. I love. They still have. They still have indoor dressing room. Okay. There's a common perception that some malls have poor, unflattering lighting. And there are several reasons why this mall might be the case. Strategic design choices, creating a specific atmosphere. Some retailers, especially those in high end fashion or those aiming for a luxurious field, deliberately use dim lighting. No, that's. That's the whole point is that.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, this is a good one. Encouraging impulse buys.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

Dim lighting can also subtly influence shoppers to prioritize pleasure over pride. Practicality leading to more impulse purchases. I don't understand this. Because it's not.

[Dax Shepard]

They're saying it's low light. Yeah, because that makes you feel romantic slash daring. Throwing caution to the wind. Tomorrow never comes vibes.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't buy that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I can't remember being in a dark changing room.

[Monica Padman]

No, Never. Fitting rooms. Many shoppers report that fitting room lighting can be particularly unflattering, often due to poorly positioned or Harsh overhead lighting that casts unflattering, shattering shadows. Okay, so we still don't know why.

[Dax Shepard]

You just read what you said now. It's been substantiated.

[Monica Padman]

Yep.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, I. Then my leading theory is not the cause, but the effect is that malls are shutting down all over the country, and if they just fix this lighting, I wonder what would happen.

[Dax Shepard]

You gotta wonder. It's definitely a cost saving strategy.

[Monica Padman]

The lighting.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I'm cheaper to have those shitty standard lights then.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, she said OCD overlaps with hoarding. She said OCD overlaps with hoarding. It says. Yes, they. They can overlap, but they are distinct conditions. It says hoarding can be a symptom of OCD and can exist as a separate disorder. If you guys missed the OCD episode, that was a really fantastic episode.

[Dax Shepard]

Absolutely.

[Monica Padman]

And we recommend you go back in.

[Dax Shepard]

The ocean archives, take a gander, take a stroll.

[Monica Padman]

Some have estimated that up to one in four with OCD also struggle with compulsive hoarding.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a high percentage.

[Monica Padman]

I DM'd Olivia to ask her to send a picture of her uncles greased up.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

She didn't respond. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So let the record reflect. I certainly want to see that picture.

[Monica Padman]

I know the doc. Last Days. She said it was called Last Days of Saigon or Final Days of Saigon. It's called Last Days in Vietnam.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

If you want to check that out.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. She said Amanda Seyfried turned down a big role. And then she said, you know, she doesn't regret it because it's where she was in her life. Now I'm seeing an interview of her talking about how she turned turned down. She turned down Guardians of the Galaxy.

[Dax Shepard]

Who did?

[Monica Padman]

Amanda Seyfried.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

So I think that's the role she's talking about.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

And spoiler. Ding, ding, ding. That's all I could say.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my goodness.

[Monica Padman]

Easter egg. It's an Easter egg.

[Dax Shepard]

That was a good one because I didn't even know what you were talking about.

[Monica Padman]

Do you now?

[Dax Shepard]

Now I do.

[Monica Padman]

It's an Easter egg for an upcoming episode. But also. Hold on, I'm gonna play a little bit.

[Dax Shepard]

This is special outfit will be worn.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

Soon we forget.

[Monica Padman]

I know. Anyway, it was Guardians of the Galaxy.

[Dax Shepard]

Great.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, the lifetime risk assessment test for breast cancer is at. It's on her Instagram in her bio. But it's also magview.com calculator if you Google it, just go to the mag. View one.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. I don't have to take it.

[Monica Padman]

I was gonna do it. I don't know how long it is.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, you should do it.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, I'm gonna do it for sure, but I was gonna do it on here.

[Dax Shepard]

I just heard someone else's story, and I just. What I don't like about these stories is you think you would get. It would be detected, but it doesn't get. Get detected.

[Monica Padman]

It's really scary.

[Dax Shepard]

It's almost. It's a miracle how some of these people end up getting detected.

[Monica Padman]

It does seem like this is fast because there's just a little questionnaire, then family history, and then you get your results.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. It's crazy that they could know that much off of.

[Monica Padman]

I know. I did look up young cancer on the rise.

[Dax Shepard]

What'd you find?

[Monica Padman]

And of course it is. Why are a growing number of young people under 50 being diagnosed with over a dozen forms of cancer around the world? The trend is especially worrying in women. According to statistics released in January 2025 by the American Cancer Society, which found that cancer incident rates in women under 50 are now 82% higher than their male counterparts, up from 51% in 2002. They said there's no single smoking gun, environmental exposure or multiple exposures. Yeah. Microbiome.

[Dax Shepard]

Bad microbiome.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Nipple delay surgery. The nipple delay surgery is a procedure performed before nipple sparing mastectomy to improve the blood supply to the nipple areola complex, the nac. It involves a small incision to separate the NAC from the breast tissue, cutting some of the connections to small blood vessels. This allows the vessels in the skin to enlarge and strengthen, ensuring a more robust blood supply to the nipple when the mastectomy is performed. She had that. Oh, Kylie Jenner. She mentioned Kylie Jenner because Kylie just came out and told everyone about her breast augmentation. She said she has 445cc, moderate profile, half under the muscle silicone. Garth Fisher hopes this. Hope this helps. Lol.

[Dax Shepard]

Wow. That's a lot of information.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a very specific prestige.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. Beverly Hills.

[Dax Shepard]

That sounded like a coffee order in Beverly Hills.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, now. Oh. Jonathan Tropper is the writer of her show.

[Dax Shepard]

Uhhuh.

[Monica Padman]

Jonathan Tropper wrote this Is Where I Leave you. You were in that movie.

[Dax Shepard]

I was in one of his. I was in his. I think his first movie that got made.

[Monica Padman]

This is Where I Leave you how to Talk to a Widower. Everything changed. Changes.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, those are books. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. But no but, no but still no. Actually, maybe movie he wrote for Banshee Warrior. I don't know. Anyway, great movie. Great book. I read the book before I even knew you.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Monica Padman]

Before I saw the movie. Ah, yep. All right.

[Dax Shepard]

Them's the facts.

[Monica Padman]

That is it.

[Dax Shepard]

All right. Love you.

[Monica Padman]

Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey. This is Nick and this is Jack. We're best friends, ex finance guys and resident 90s experts.

[Olivia Munn]

And every week on our podcast, the Best Idea yet, we're bringing you the.

[Dax Shepard]

Untold stories behind your favorite products. For instance, can you guess which billion.

[Olivia Munn]

Dollar fashion company went viral thanks to.

[Dax Shepard]

A rhyme stone covered tracksuit?

[Olivia Munn]

Or which cartoon turned four turtles into.

[Dax Shepard]

A global toy empire by accident? It started as a joke.

[Olivia Munn]

Last one.

[Dax Shepard]

Which cold beverage was so hated by Starbucks they actually ended up acquiring it? Spoiler.

[Olivia Munn]

The Frappuccino.

[Dax Shepard]

Howard Schultz apparently thought cold coffee was.

[Olivia Munn]

Super lame and then he bought it.

[Dax Shepard]

From Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to Juicy.

[Olivia Munn]

Couture to the Orange Mocha Frappuccino, Join us every week to learn how your.

[Dax Shepard]

Favorite things things got made. Follow the Best Idea yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Olivia Munn]

And you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

[Dax Shepard]

And if this podcast lasts longer than 45 minutes, call your doctor.