Rerelease: Walton Goggins

Summary

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Episode: Rerelease: Walton Goggins
Release Date: January 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features a spirited, vulnerable, and often hilarious conversation with acclaimed actor Walton Goggins. Dax Shepard and Monica Padman, both open admirers and friends, dissect Goggins’ remarkable career, his Southern upbringing, his approach to acting, and the eccentricities that shaped him. The dialogue covers artistic integrity, navigating stereotypes, the pain and resilience born from childhood poverty, and the privileges and costs of success. Goggins shares candid reflections on his family, creative process, and his approach to living life “with intention.” The episode is full of warmth, admiration, insight, and laughter as Dax and Monica celebrate the “messiness of being human” alongside their multifaceted guest.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Walton Goggins’ Unique Career and Talent

[00:29–01:37]

• Dax and Monica are unabashed fans, calling Goggins the “best across the board actor,” able to excel in comedy and drama alike (“There’s nobody doing comedy better and there’s nobody doing drama better” — Dax, [01:09]).
• Dax lists Walton’s projects across genres: Righteous Gemstones, Fallout, Justified, Vice Principals, The Hateful Eight, and the forthcoming White Lotus season.
• Goggins’ versatility is lauded as “apex drama and apex comedy” (Dax, [10:03]).

2. Merchandising & Goggins Goggle Glasses

[01:45–11:12]

• A running gag throughout the episode involves Goggins’ “goggle glasses” — both a playful promotion and a joke about actor branding.
• Walton describes their real utility and how the product fits his personality (“I just love the equipment, man” — Goggins, [06:48]).
• Monica and Dax joke about the natural fit, contrasting it with cheeky “A to B” actor brands like Tom Cruise’s hypothetical “Top Gun Mower.”

3. Upholding Integrity in Acting Roles

[12:16–15:23]

• Goggins reveals he turned down his originally one-dimensional role in Justified twice, unwilling to perpetuate Southern stereotypes at that stage in his career.
• “I can’t perpetuate this stereotype and sell out my culture anymore…” (Goggins, [13:01]).
• Only after negotiating for more complexity to the character did he accept: “I just needed a version of that line for him to see through that” ([14:33]).
• The change led to an expanded, multi-season role, showing the difference creative input can make.

4. Stereotypes and Southern Identity

[15:32–16:28]

• Referencing Barbara Kingsolver’s “Demon Copperhead,” Dax and Goggins explore how negative Southern stereotypes are internalized: “We’re in the bathroom stall in high school. We hear the popular kids making fun of us… It’s so offensive and hurtful.” ([15:42]–[16:06]).
• Walton discusses how being from the South means confronting reductionist representations and why he’s careful about contributing to them.

5. A Colorful and Challenging Upbringing

[16:34–22:40]

• Goggins shares stories of poverty, eccentric family, moving homes, and cold winters with resilience and humor.
• Raised by his mother in Georgia after his parents’ early divorce, and surrounded by “real steel magnolias” — strong, eccentric Southern women.
• A memorable and haunting childhood story: Seeing an unknown man at his bedroom window as a child ([17:44–18:42]).
• Family was unconventional: his father was married six (or “six and a half,” counting an annulment) times; home was “a way station for people” ([21:05]).

6. Parental Dynamics and Narcissism

[19:37–21:07]

• Walton describes his father’s narcissism, sharing an example: his dad made himself a custom mug with Walton’s photo and the caption “There is no him without me.”
• “It was a picture of me in these glasses...And underneath it, in big letters, ‘there is no him without me’” ([20:27]).

7. The Value of Eccentricity

[22:43–24:17]

• Goggins expresses deep appreciation for growing up around eccentrics: “God damn, I’m glad that I wasn’t raised totally by them. I just absolutely love lunatics. I love crazy people — but just enough crazy” ([21:47]).
• He wonders if today’s social media encourages performative eccentricity rather than authentic oddness.
• Monica: “Authenticity has gotten very complicated and public and confusing” ([22:56]).

8. Experience of Poverty, Shame, and Self-Belief

[24:44–35:49]

• Goggins movingly details feeling different, lying about his home address out of shame, and the insecurity stemming from poverty.
• He learned self-reliance and structure in the absence of order (“I don’t think I slept in the same bed for more than seven days straight until I was like 15” — [24:57]).
• “Poverty is humiliating. When you’re young like that, you just don’t fit in” (Dax, [34:52]).
• “Falling in love with yourself. God damn. If you can get to that point where you’re okay with you, even though once you find it, it will very quickly disappear.” ([35:48])

9. Boundaries, Self-Worth, and Survivor’s Guilt

[35:49–36:27]

• Both Goggins and Dax reflect on survivor’s guilt as adults who escaped poverty.
• “I’m not poor anymore, but I don’t think that ever fully leaves you” (Walton, [35:49]).
• “I wrestle a lot with…I hated rich people…now I’m one of those people...It’s complicated.” (Dax, [36:07])

10. Auto-Didacticism and Artistic Growth

[36:32–38:26]

• Goggins never had the privilege of college education but recreates that “time to think” for himself in his adult, artistic life.
• He describes giving himself permission to “be on the road for a very long period of time, understanding culture...that’s my education...that’s time to ask those existential questions or listen to the music this person would listen to, or watch those movies” ([37:31]–[38:32]).

11. Performance Roots and Stories

[38:43–41:13]

• Surrounded by storytellers as a child, Goggins developed his narrative skills and sense of humor early.
• He moved to LA at 19, with a ticket from a mail-in American Express offer, determined to pursue acting ([39:37–40:28]).

12. Making It in Hollywood

[41:19–44:13]

• The turning point: “The Shield” at age 29, and before that “The Apostle” with Robert Duvall.
• For 10 years, Goggins worked jobs, felt lost in casting, but credits perseverance and an unconventional path for his long-term success.

13. Roles, Risk, and Casting

[44:13–46:53]

• Candid stories about almost missing out on roles in Bourne Identity, Eastbound & Down (“might be a little too dangerous for what we’re doing” — [42:42]), and his relationships with Danny McBride and David Gordon Green.
• The audition for Quentin Tarantino is legendary: Walton read “all the roles” for Tarantino at his insistence — “I just want to read your words in front of you...I want to read all of these roles” ([46:24]).

14. Navigating Recognition and Typecasting

[47:09–50:04]

• Goggins reflects on his “Achilles heel” — being so chameleonic, many audiences don’t realize he’s the same actor from role to role.
• Dax: “I think you deserve to be the biggest star in the world. But the work is so unique and different, I don't know if people are connecting the dots” ([47:09]).

15. Reflections on the Nature of Success

[49:41–50:04]

• Goggins and Dax discuss the value of “walking the road” over instant fame: “I would argue it’s preferred...It’s such the way to do it” (Dax, [49:41]–[50:04]).

16. On-Set Chemistry and Writing

[51:35–53:50]

• Discussing Righteous Gemstones and Vice Principals, Dax is amazed at the writing: “98% is on the page. No shit?” (Dax, [53:19]–[53:44]).

17. Life Imitates Art – Living Intentionally

[58:28–60:57]

• Goggins discusses his commitment to crafting an artistic, intentional life outside of acting: prioritizing family, saying no to lucrative jobs to be present with loved ones, and traveling with friends: “It’s with intention...That time with my kid, it means more to me than anything” ([58:49]).
• "We’re going to live the hell out of life. Strap yourself in" ([60:07]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On integrity in acting:
  “…I just can’t perpetuate this stereotype and sell out my culture anymore from an outsider’s perspective.” — Walton Goggins, [13:01]

• On internalized stereotypes:
  “We're in the bathroom stall in high school. We hear the popular kids making fun of us...It's so offensive and hurtful.” — Barbara Kingsolver via Dax, [15:42]

• On the legacy of poverty:
  “Poverty is humiliating. When you’re young like that, you just don’t fit in.” — Dax Shepard, [34:52]

• On learning to love yourself:
  “Falling in love with yourself — God damn. If you can get to that point where you’re okay with you, even though once you find it, it will very quickly disappear.” — Walton Goggins, [35:48]

• On actor branding:
  “Why does Tom Cruise have lawn care equipment?” — Dax Shepard, [06:28] “Walton Goggins Goggle Glasses.” — Collective, multiple points

• On authenticity and eccentricity:
  "I just absolutely love lunatics. I love crazy people, but just enough crazy." — Walton Goggins, [21:47] “Authenticity has gotten very complicated and public and confusing.” — Monica Padman, [22:56]

• On family pride:
  “There is no him without me” — Walton’s dad’s custom mug, [20:27]

• On opportunity and privilege:
  “Going to school and being able to be there and think critically is a privilege.” — Monica Padman, [37:23]

• On his personal code:
  “I have shame and remorse and regret about the time that I have been away...But we're gonna live the hell out of life. Strap yourself in.” — Walton Goggins, [59:55–60:07]

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:29–01:37 | Dax and Monica praise Goggins’ career and versatility | | 12:16–15:23 | Walton details why he initially turned down Justified | | 15:32–16:28 | The harm of Southern stereotypes, Kingsolver quote | | 17:44–18:42 | Childhood trauma: stranger at Goggins’ window | | 19:37–21:07 | Goggins’ “narcissist” father and family stories | | 22:43–24:17 | The role of eccentric people in Goggins’ life | | 24:44–35:49 | School, shame, structure, first poems, surviving poverty | | 37:31–38:32 | “Time to think” and creating his own educational path | | 39:37–40:28 | Moving to LA: How Goggins made it | | 46:24 | “I want to read your words… all of these roles” (Tarantino audition) | | 57:05–60:07 | “Living with intention” and saying “no” for family |

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Tone and Language

The conversation is irreverent, candid, celebratory, and full of gentle ribbing. There’s mutual admiration and warmth between all three: Dax comes at topics from a place of relentless curiosity, Monica serves as both thoughtful interlocutor and comic foil, and Walton Goggins brings generous, grounded self-awareness. The group navigates moments of gravity (the pain of poverty, family dysfunction, typecasting) and levity (goggle glasses, eccentric relatives, actor “side hustles”) with ease.

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Conclusion

This episode is essential listening for fans of Walton Goggins or anyone interested in the intersection of art, identity, and resilience. Through laughter, vulnerability, and wisdom, Dax, Monica, and Walton explore how hardship shapes artistry, how authenticity trumps performance, and why living with intention is the ultimate achievement. The episode is a love letter to the art of storytelling—on screen, at the dinner table, and in the lived moments in between.

Transcript

[Dax Shepard]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondri in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Leslie Stahl.

[Monica Padman]

Oh my gosh.

[Dax Shepard]

She comes up occasionally. Back in the old days she would pop up a lot.

[Monica Padman]

That is high praise.

[Dax Shepard]

Very high praise. I love Leslie Stahl.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, she's great.

[Dax Shepard]

She's a firecracker. Okay. Long time coming. Number one current obsession as an actor going on three years now, probably Walton Goggins. Walton Goggins goggle glasses. Uncle Baby Billy's Bible. Bonkers. This guy's an alliteration wet dream. Yes. I love Walton Goggins.

[Monica Padman]

I mean he's an incredible actor, but he was also a beautiful person.

[Dax Shepard]

Such an interesting, colorful person. There should be award for just best across the board actor. It's not on a single project and it's just, it's like best dramatic, best comedy, whatever. There's just best actor and I think Walton would be the shoe in.

[Monica Padman]

I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

Because there's nobody doing comedy better and there's nobody doing drama better. Fallout Justified. Righteous Gemstones. Vice principals, the Hateful eight. He stole the Hateful Eight, which is hard to do. That's a hell of a cast. Season three of the White Lotus. It wasn't enough he was in my favorite comedy show, Righteous Gemstone. Or that he was in my favorite action show, Fallout. Now he had to join my favorite dramedy, White Lotus.

[Monica Padman]

It's all the genres.

[Dax Shepard]

What a dick. Also, Walton Goggins goggle glasses. Learn more@goggins goggles.com you'll hear us in.

[Monica Padman]

The goggles at the top of the show.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, we'll be fully. If you're watching, we're adorned in the goggles. Goggins goggle glasses.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we are.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, now this is a big merch update.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, huge update.

[Dax Shepard]

So we were unable to do our own merch. We have to do our merch through Amazon Wondery. We have asked them if we can just do it while getting that sorted and we have a one month window where we've got a bunch of really cool, well thought out merch. You can go to www.armchair expert pod.com. bunch of cool designs. A lot of things that were on the limited edition sweatshirts are now making their way to T shirts with some.

[Monica Padman]

Additional designs and some sweats and it's a really cool little collection.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. And this is not calculated into a pressure cooker, but it will be about a month long that we're allowed to do this.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, there's a chance we might be able to continue it. We don't know yet.

[Dax Shepard]

We don't know.

[Monica Padman]

Just letting you guys know it's up.

[Dax Shepard]

We know we have the month, so order now. There'll be a delay because we have to make it all and ship it. So if you need it overnight, that's probably not going to. It's a pre sale. But go there and order all the stuff you want and then it'll get to you at some time. Go to WWW Arbitrary.

[Monica Padman]

Get your merch.

[Dax Shepard]

Get your merch. Please enjoy Walton Goggins goggle glasses. We are supported by Apple watch. All right, so here's a truth that made me feel way better about myself. Most people quit their New Year's fitness resolutions by the second Friday of January. They even call it Quitters Day, January 9th, which is wild. We all start the year with these big goals, and then life happens, motivation fades, and we just quit. But here's the thing. This year, we're quitting quitting. An Apple watch is basically designed to not let you bail. It tracks your activities, sends you those little nudges when you haven't stood in a while, celebrates when you close your activity rings, and keeps you accountable with streaks and reminders. It's like having a workout partner on your wrist that won't let you off the hook. So if you've been thinking about getting serious about your fitness goals or honestly just making it past January 9 this time, Apple watch is the move. Let's do this. This is the year we all quit quitting. IPhone 11 or later required. We are supported by quints. Winter in L. A is weird. It'll be 75 degrees one day. Then suddenly you need an actual coat. I've been rotating through the same three jackets for years, and honestly, they're looking rough. So I finally upgraded my winter wardrobe with quince, and the difference is wild. Their Mongolian cashmere sweaters are ridiculously soft. Like, I didn't know cashmere could feel this good without costing a mortgage payment. And their wool coats and Italian leather outerwear, they're the kind of pieces that actually last.

[Monica Padman]

They also have amazing homeware. Do not sleep on the homeware. And if someone's moving and you want to get them, like, a little housewarming gift, it's the perfect place. I got a friend some curtains.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you did?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Quint curtains, QCs, quince curtains.

[Monica Padman]

Do it.

[Dax Shepard]

What I love about Quint is they cut out the middleman. Bye. Bye. They work directly with factories and have ethical production standards. So you're getting luxury quality without the luxury markup. We're talking premium materials, thoughtful design stuff that'll last you multiple winners, not just one. Refresh your winter wardrobe with Quint. Go to quint quince.comdax for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.comdax Free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comdax he's an upchurch.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, hey. Whoa. Wait a minute.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa.

[Walton Goggins]

Is there a guest?

[Dax Shepard]

Go ahead.

[Walton Goggins]

I think we have the star of the show. I'm just the guest star.

[Dax Shepard]

Monty, you want to slide yours on? I put them there for you.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, I would.

[Dax Shepard]

I figured we could start in them.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my.

[Dax Shepard]

He brought you specifically. Blue, honey, sit on the couch for half a second. You're not even Mike, but pop your product. This bitch can move product.

[Walton Goggins]

Pickleball. Sky diamond. Wear it on the boat. Scuba diving.

[Dax Shepard]

You ever cut onions in these bad boys?

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, I've cut onions in them. Oh, yeah. Way to cut onions.

[Monica Padman]

Very comfortable.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, they're comfortable.

[Dax Shepard]

This feels like we're having an interview on a chairlift on the way up the mountain. Which kind of happens, you know, you're sitting on that chairlift for minutes and minutes and you end up talking about some stuff.

[Monica Padman]

I feel like this is such a good product for you. You know how sometimes people have brands that you're like, I don't get the A to B. This is an A.

[Dax Shepard]

Why does Tom Cruise have lawn care equipment?

[Monica Padman]

Exactly. It makes sense.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, yeah. But does he have lawn care equipment?

[Monica Padman]

Perfect.

[Walton Goggins]

But does he.

[Dax Shepard]

Does he mobile yet? The Top Gun Mower.

[Monica Padman]

Say the name out loud.

[Walton Goggins]

Walton Goggins. Goggle glasses.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, that's as close as you can get to Uncle Baby Billy's Bible bunkers.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, there's some similarities there.

[Dax Shepard]

A bit of a nod as well.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, it's just a nod. Just a little thing. It worked out for Baby Billy. Maybe it'll work out for me. I'm a good athlete. I'm not a great athlete at all. But really, the thing that I got out of playing sports more than anything else was I just love the equipment, man. I just love putting on the football pads.

[Dax Shepard]

Love the glove.

[Walton Goggins]

I mean, I love pep rallies. Let me ask, wearing them right now, do you think that you would go for a pickle ball shot that you might Otherwise not go for. Since you have a strap on your.

[Monica Padman]

Head, Hunter P. I feel very cool in these.

[Dax Shepard]

Honey, if you walk straight out of here and get in my Z wagon and drive the stick shift like you're Mario Andretti, because of those, I won't be shocked at all.

[Monica Padman]

I've never driven a stick shift.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right.

[Walton Goggins]

We live 15 minutes from a ski resort where we are now in the Hudson Valley. This isn't like Aspen, Colorado, but it's got a vibe. It's a super cool place. And I drop my kid off at school and like any good dad, I'll.

[Dax Shepard]

Go skiing like most American dads.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, like 10 runs. And then I'll have a beer. Oh, what a nice. And sit outside and there's a fire pit kind of out there. And then go home and take a nap and sober up everyone, I promise. And go pick up my kid. But one particular day I was just sitting out and it's cold and I got these goggles on, whatever the Oakley cool glasses are just sitting there having a beer. I said, I never want to take these glasses off.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Walton Goggins]

Where are we all when it comes to reading glasses? Do you need them? Do you not need them? And go.

[Monica Padman]

A year and a half ago, my eyes died. Yeah, I don't know what happened, but it was overnight. And Now I'm at a 1, I guess is my prescription. I don't think they're very strong, but when my kids put them on, they make quite a bit of fun.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, they get a headache instantly.

[Monica Padman]

I do have to wear them a.

[Walton Goggins]

Lot with my wife, who's older than I am. Just a couple of years. Baby, I'm so sorry.

[Monica Padman]

Shout out.

[Walton Goggins]

I wasn't going to say years and two days. November 8th. She's a Scorpio. I won't say the year. Baby, you couldn't even see me wink, can you? Because you don't really know what's going on in my thoughts. But she said, it's coming for you. And I said, I don't think so. And then literally she said, it'll happen overnight. And it did. And then the next night, you know, blind laid down to read and blind.

[Dax Shepard]

Your representatives, your publicists. I bet in their best case scenario, they hoped we would talk about these glasses for 30 seconds.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. I'm guessing when they're most of optimistic.

[Dax Shepard]

State, they're like, I pray they bring them up and I hope they do. 30 seconds on and we've done legit a good 15.

[Walton Goggins]

We've done 15 minutes on these things.

[Monica Padman]

It's time to talk about your life. I can all get out of your hair. You guys have fun.

[Walton Goggins]

It's so good to see you.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to tell you sincerely, 850 guests. She's asked to come meet, I think, four people. Where she said, what time are you recording? I'm going to make sure I'm not doing anything. I must meet this person. And you're one of four. Well, we've worked together. Oopsie.

[Walton Goggins]

Way to go, Dax. Not only did we work together, so.

[Monica Padman]

Sorry, but Dax's people are in and out of this yard all the time. People that I know, people that I don't know, people that I respect, people that I'm fans of. And I've come in to say hi to maybe four or five people, and you were definitely one of them, because. How do you even say it? You're a number one.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have the evidence. I have on this show numerous times said, you are my number one. So hard. Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

I gotta put these on before I get, like, emotional.

[Dax Shepard]

They're great to mask public crime, too. We left that out. There isn't anyone I've ever seen that is apex drama and apex comedy the way you are. It seems impossible, to be honest, to go from Righteous to Fallout in one year. It's staggering.

[Monica Padman]

And the fact that you were in that disgusting mask on Fallout and every woman in America was still like, I want that sexy radiation cowboy in my bedroom once a week. You got the rhythm. We love you. I'm glad I got to see you.

[Walton Goggins]

It's really.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

You don't really have the body of a beer drinker. When you said that, I was like, I don't buy it.

[Dax Shepard]

He's one of the. These guys, though. We're going to get into it. He's one of these charms. Those are yours.

[Walton Goggins]

They're yours.

[Dax Shepard]

And yours look great as a hairband.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I love it as a hairband. Very exciting names.

[Walton Goggins]

And then we'll just kind of move on to something else. The white ones are cumulonimbus, which is a cloud formation. Yes, they are. I think they're the coolest. It's like, fuck, he's rocking some white goggle glasses with a red, white and blue band.

[Monica Padman]

It's confidence.

[Walton Goggins]

It's very cool. And then we have a Noir pair, a black pair called Mama Skillet, named after my Mama Skillet.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, we're gonna pin in Mama's skillet.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

These are Tortuga. You gotta have a tortoise shell, man.

[Dax Shepard]

So what does the Word Tortuga. Where does it come from?

[Walton Goggins]

It means black and brown pattern.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay. It's not like. No, it's a turtle. It's a type of turtle.

[Walton Goggins]

It's a turtle.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

In Spanish.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, Spanish.

[Walton Goggins]

Yes. And then we have limoncello.

[Monica Padman]

Ooh, that's.

[Walton Goggins]

Which is yellow. And then we have the color that you're wearing, which is. Guess what?

[Dax Shepard]

Blue. Wow. Decided to go real conventional for just one, which is comical, because if any color deserved a adjective before it, it would be blue. There's so many kinds. But you're like, no, there's only one blue. And this is it.

[Monica Padman]

You're thinking differently.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, he just asked questions. Okay, here we go.

[Dax Shepard]

We're gonna get serious now.

[Walton Goggins]

Okay. Let's get so serious. So.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, you get it. I love you so much. I have been wanting this to happen for very, very long. And I was working with Rob Cordry for a period, who I adore, and then I found out you guys are close and you would vacation together in Europe, which sounds exactly what I'd imagine you do.

[Walton Goggins]

Hey.

[Dax Shepard]

Always so elegant. And maybe I want to jump to one thing to then come back to where you're from, because I was watching an interview with you, and you were discussing having been offered Justified to be in the pilot. You were going to die and Justified, and that was going to be it. You read it and you turned it down twice for a very specific reason. And I want you to tell me why. Because I really liked it.

[Walton Goggins]

I'm a huge Elmore Leonard fan, for one thing, but I felt that it was so one dimensional and. Because I can afford not to do this anymore.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. For much of your early career, all of us, we gotta play what they offer us.

[Walton Goggins]

Absolutely. I mean, if you're Italian and you're from New York, chances are you're gonna.

[Dax Shepard]

You're gonna shoot somebody.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, absolutely. You're gonna be eating some fucking pasta.

[Dax Shepard]

You're gonna eat some pasta and you're gonna dig a hole in the desert.

[Walton Goggins]

Absolutely.

[Dax Shepard]

And you're gonna smile while you're doing it.

[Walton Goggins]

But we all look for boxes to kind of fit in when. And it just so happened to be at that point in my life that I'd gotten out of a number of those boxes, and this was one box that I just felt like, I can't perpetuate this stereotype and sell out my culture anymore from an outsider's perspective. Like, a lot of different cultures in America, they're reducible to one impersonation. And it's like, okay, well, If I can speak a little like this, you know, when I come down here and like I'm from the South. What does that even fucking mean? I mean, the south represents a third of this country. Each region and each state and each part of every state is very unique. Like the state of New York. The state of New York isn't just New Yorkers. I live in the state of New York now.

[Dax Shepard]

Two dramatically different cultures, actually. You live in dramatically. Yeah. Manhattan and Hudson Valley.

[Walton Goggins]

That's right. But it just felt like I was at a place in my life where I just was unwilling to do that.

[Dax Shepard]

To participate in the perpetuation of this.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. And I think everybody, you know, at some point, whenever you can kind of step out, you don't need the money morally. You just don't think that it's right. And you don't want to feel shame whenever you're visiting those places, that you're just another part of the problem. This is where the conversation. And I wanted it to be where the conversation began. And so on the third conversation we had after I had turned it down twice and I say that I'm not proud of it. There's no ego involved in that whatsoever. Because I'm such a huge fan of Tim Oliphant and Michael Dinner, who was directing it and wrote a good bit of it. But Graham Yost, who wrote the pilot on the third time, I said, okay, I'll do it. Two things. I'm the smartest person in the room. Always after I say this very long speech in the pilot.

[Dax Shepard]

It was kind of crazy racist rant.

[Walton Goggins]

That's right. That you say this one line which is, I know you. You don't believe half the things that you're saying. You just need an audience. I just needed a version of that line for him to see through that. Which is true.

[Dax Shepard]

It's crazy having watched it not knowing that story and how important that weird detail was because it also built this rapport with you two, which makes it so much more compelling. You have a past and that little line that you were wanting to not perpetuate ends up also being this other layer.

[Walton Goggins]

Well, it also allows the audience to kind of come into the experience. No one has tolerance for intolerance. Really. I don't. It just gave the audience the opportunity to experience this person and really to go forward. I ask for those things. Not with a six year contract. This was just the pilot and Die will do this thing and just give me that and then I can sleep better at night.

[Dax Shepard]

And you know, it's so fucking incredible. After they tested it, every single person like, well, no, no, he can't die. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

It just adds a third dimension to a person.

[Dax Shepard]

We had a guest that so beautifully articulated this. You know the author, Barbara Kingsolver, by chance, she wrote the Pulitzer, Pulitzer Prize winning book last year, Demon Copperhead.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

The most beautiful book. I read it. My whole family's from Kentucky. She said in that book she was trying to explain how it feels to be in the south and especially in Appalachia. She described it as, we're in the bathroom stall in high school. We hear the popular kids making fun of us. We get these TV shows, we get these songs. We can hear you. It's so offensive and hurtful.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you don't even. I just had a whole renewed compassion for one of the great stereotypes that.

[Walton Goggins]

Kind of persists in some ways. I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but it's permissible. An urban culture, certainly on both coasts.

[Dax Shepard]

It's low hanging fruit. It's always there.

[Walton Goggins]

You can always go to it and you can always get a laugh from your constituents. And they're a part of it. They're also in the audience.

[Dax Shepard]

It's hurtful. So you were born in Birmingham, Alabama, but you grew up in Georgia, where Monica grew up as well.

[Monica Padman]

I'm from Georgia.

[Walton Goggins]

Whoa.

[Monica Padman]

I know you're talking about Kentucky, but I. I'm from Georgia.

[Walton Goggins]

A little peach.

[Monica Padman]

That's right. Little peach.

[Walton Goggins]

Atl.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, Duluth. Where in Georgia?

[Walton Goggins]

We lived in a fucking trailer in Birmingham, Alabama. First year of my life. My mom's sisters lived. It was like, I don't know, five or six people. My parents got divorced pretty early. What age? Three, maybe two and a half. But my earliest memories are with my mom in Decatur, Georgia, which is right downtown.

[Monica Padman]

It's very cool.

[Walton Goggins]

Now there's so many great places in Atlanta now, like so many cities in America had whole new generation is going to come in and give me some third wave coffee and fucking. Some great sourdough bread. What's coming next? Ooh, Mediterranean food. Fantastic.

[Dax Shepard]

But Lithia. Do you know Lithia?

[Walton Goggins]

Lithia Springs. We moved out, which is west side. My mom and I lived in Decatur three years. One of my earliest memories, I couldn't have been more than four. I have a lot of memories from that house that we lived in, this duplex. But one is one of the scariest memories of my childhood, of my life, really. My mom's bedroom is in the front. My bedroom was in the back. She's a young woman. She was a beautiful woman. She had a super cool boyfriend. And I slept in my bed alone.

[Dax Shepard]

You were an only child at that point.

[Walton Goggins]

Only child. And I went to sleep. My little twin bed was right up against the wall. My upper torso was next to the wall. From my knees down was in front of a window. Just as I was about to fall asleep, there was a light in the backyard, and I had whatever. The fucking house came with these shades that were kind of pulled down, an opaque shade so you could see through it. And just as I was falling asleep, I saw someone crawl in front of my window. Because there was a roof right outside of those two stories. I don't know if it was a man or a woman. I have no idea.

[Dax Shepard]

I think we can assume it's a.

[Monica Padman]

Man if I'm betting on this or a woman escaping.

[Walton Goggins]

It was a man. He was on his knees, and he was just sitting there, like, perfectly outlined in my window. His whole body. And I couldn't scream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he had his hands on the window, and he was trying to see if it would open. And then eventually, he just went past the window. And as soon as he was out of sight, I got my voice back and I started screaming.

[Dax Shepard]

Did mom's boyfriend run to the scene?

[Walton Goggins]

I don't know if he was there that night. That's kind of the end of that memory, really. I remember my mom coming in or something, but it was terrifying. And then we moved out to Lithia Springs when I was five years old. We found an 1850s farmhouse, and it was two bedrooms. You had to walk through my room to get to the bathroom, and it was fucking cold in the winter. It was like, well, I'm gonna go to sleep with this glass of water on the edge of my bed, and I know I'm gonna wake up cup, and it's going to be frozen.

[Dax Shepard]

Yay.

[Walton Goggins]

Look, there's no more water in my glass.

[Dax Shepard]

Mama, get me out of here.

[Walton Goggins]

What the wrong with us?

[Dax Shepard]

Were there stepdads in the mix?

[Walton Goggins]

I did not have a stepdad. My mom never got remarried, but she had some boyfriends, and I loved all of them. You did? Some of them were a little hard, and a couple of them were younger than they probably should have been.

[Dax Shepard]

Good for her.

[Walton Goggins]

Mom's so hot.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. We need a picture of your mom.

[Dax Shepard]

My mom?

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, she's so fucking cool.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Who do you get your swagger from? Because I have been lucky enough to see photos of your dad and Monica. I can't wait to describe his father to you, but you showed some pictures on Seth Meyers of him. He is a one of a fucking kind.

[Walton Goggins]

He texted me a photo yesterday. Dad, if you ever see this. I can't believe you made this fucking coffee mug. But it was a picture of me in these glasses. A part of the campaign. And he made himself a coffee mug. He's a narcissist, my dad. Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Clinical, sure.

[Walton Goggins]

He knows it, don't you? Dad literally sent me this thing when he said congratulations, and he loves me and I love him. It has this logo fucking all over the bottom of it. And then at the top that's facing out, where people would be seeing it, is a picture of me in these glasses. And underneath it, in big letters, there is no him without me.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, no, no.

[Dax Shepard]

That's what it says on the mug.

[Walton Goggins]

On the fucking mug, man.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. Perfect. I could almost guess that caption, My father and I wonder if you have this. As I got famous, he loved telling people I wanted to take in how proud he was of me. And he was deeply proud of me. But I couldn't trust that it wasn't maybe more about him getting attention.

[Monica Padman]

Of course, Matt, you're an extension of.

[Dax Shepard]

Him, which makes more sense now that I have kids. You're right. There is a very tiny line between you, but can you relate to that?

[Walton Goggins]

I had a lifetime of that. We're not the only people that have had this kind of experience. My father was married six times, but one was annulled.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, well, we'll still count it.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, I'll count that.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, A shotgun kind of annulment. The running joke kind of, in my household was, inevitably, everybody has a bumper sticker that says, honk if you've ever been married to Sandy Goggins.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, fucking.

[Walton Goggins]

Who hasn't he married? But my mom never remarried. She had some wonderful men come through. And then we had a cast of characters in my life. It was kind of this way station for people. My mom was the most sane of her three sisters who were and are insane clinically. But it was really colorful. And I was raised kind of by real steel magnolias.

[Dax Shepard]

You got to meet characters. It sounds like not only I get.

[Walton Goggins]

To meet them, they fucking lived with us.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, they raised you.

[Dax Shepard]

Upon reflection, though, are you grateful for it?

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, I'm so grateful for it. Whenever you would meet someone, even someone who was relatively authentic, even someone who was just a farmer across the street, Kermit and his wife. Everyone in my life was eccentric. I mean, except for the Hearse family. My neighbors Holly and David were my best friends, and Ken and Carol were like my mom and dad. They actually fed me regularly. They had a bed that I could always sleep in, and they would actually take me to practice, but they would also pick me up.

[Dax Shepard]

They were dependable.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, they were about as good as Americans can get. They were just wonderful people. But God damn, I'm glad that I wasn't raised totally by them. I just absolutely love lunatics. Yes, I love crazy people, but just enough crazy. I don't see enough people seeking out those conversations or taking the time with people like that. Am I wrong about that?

[Monica Padman]

You think people dismiss, I think that.

[Walton Goggins]

Eccentricity if the conversation can't be had in about three minutes, if you're only checking one of the 10 boxes required for me to have a conversation, I'm not fucking having it. Right. I mean, because people are busy and there's a phone. Do you think that's true or no?

[Monica Padman]

Gosh, I think it's complicated because I also think because of social media, people also lean deeply into their eccentricity, almost in an inauthentic way, in a performative way. It's performative. So authenticity has gotten very complicated and public and confusing.

[Walton Goggins]

And you are interfacing with people that have either real or faux eccentricities and you are engaging with them in that platform. I didn't even think about that.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, also, you can get that itch scratch, which is you can go watch someone that's batshit nuts on Instagram. Whereas when we were kids, Kristen will hear me say this all the time. It's like we're at an airport and I just lock onto somebody and I'll say out loud, gotta find out what this guy's up to. And I'll go check. People catch my eye all the time. And I'm like, dying to find out what's cracking, what's going on outside of this airport. What kind of kid were you in school?

[Walton Goggins]

I was alone a lot as a kid. Single mom, babysitters, houses. I felt like I spent most of my life waiting to be picked up. At times I felt like an inconvenience, even though that wasn't their intention. I remember seeing the Bridges of Madison county and Burbank whenever that movie came out in the early 90s. And then calling my mom from a payphone in the lobby, walking out, apologizing for being bored. But not just like, I'm so sorry I held you back from doing some of these things. And she still had a fucking great life.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it sounds like it's cause I'm younger suitors.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. But she was like, no, son, you are the gift. You are it. But at the time, I didn't feel that in school. I think I was popular, kind. I think I could charm people. I always felt different. I always knew that I'm not going to be here fore. I had a lot of friends. My senior superlative, even though I didn't win it. But I was the first runner up for most friendliest. I thought it would be best dressed. They took that out that year because poor kids, they don't have the same opportunity.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm poor. But I figured it out.

[Walton Goggins]

But I figured it out. I got a job.

[Dax Shepard]

I work at Riches scarf with this $3 shirt.

[Walton Goggins]

You see this shit? I bought this shit. But I was a great student.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no kidding.

[Walton Goggins]

I had no structure in my life. I don't think I slept in the same bed for more than seven days straight until I was like 15. So I had to generate my own structure. It helped me. It served me my entire life because, okay, well, I got to work harder than everybody in this room.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, it makes you a self starter because no one's going to start it for you.

[Walton Goggins]

That's right. I remember writing a poem. That was the class assignment. And so I picked it about divorce. You know, I came to turn it in and she gave it back to me. It was like an F. Whoa. I said, I'm so sorry. I think this is pretty good. And she said, it's great, but you didn't write it. And I said, what?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, so it's the ultimate compliment. Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

It's like, yes, I did. I'm like that guy. It's from my heart. Yeah, I just showed you my.

[Dax Shepard]

You just shit on it. Yeah. Call me a fraud.

[Walton Goggins]

And then my mom kind of came to school, said, no, no, no, it was him. And it all worked out.

[Dax Shepard]

I've never wanted to read a poem in my entire life until right now. I'm dying to read it.

[Monica Padman]

Do you know it? Do you know it by heart?

[Walton Goggins]

No. I remember a couple raps I wrote in high school. We'll get to that later.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So you went to Southern Georgia University? For a year and a half.

[Monica Padman]

Georgia Southern.

[Walton Goggins]

Georgia Southern. Did you go to.

[Monica Padman]

I went to Georgia.

[Walton Goggins]

You went to uga?

[Monica Padman]

I did go to Ohio.

[Dax Shepard]

She too was a great student.

[Walton Goggins]

You're from Georgia, man.

[Monica Padman]

I know I am. I sure am. We got in a big fight. I went to the Texas game with Dax in Austin.

[Walton Goggins]

Are you a big Texas?

[Monica Padman]

No, he's not.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm a big Austin fan.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I'm a big Austin fan. It's a great city.

[Monica Padman]

Well, they were playing Georgia and I refused.

[Dax Shepard]

And we were the guests.

[Monica Padman]

We were guests of some Texas McConaughey.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Fucking religion. We gotta hook em.

[Monica Padman]

No, we don't.

[Walton Goggins]

Do you wear like a Georgia hat?

[Monica Padman]

I wore a bulldog shirt and a red sweater.

[Walton Goggins]

Were you on the field?

[Monica Padman]

No, we were in the but surrounded by a bunch of orange, and I was like, absolutely not.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

She was so mad that I wanted the longhorn swing. It put our friendship to the test.

[Monica Padman]

It really did.

[Dax Shepard]

We barely navigated that one.

[Walton Goggins]

We don't have to talk about it now, but I want to know the history of this friendship.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah, it's an odd pairing.

[Dax Shepard]

We're best friends. We fight non stop. We think about the world so differently. So often it works big time.

[Monica Padman]

Circling back a little bit, I do think we are very volatile, and I think that's somewhat of a result his upbringing and potentially mine. And when we were talking about chaos and relationships, do you seek that out? I think we subconsciously seek it out.

[Walton Goggins]

You mean conflict with each other or do you think in your own lives?

[Monica Padman]

Like, if I'm being honest, I think that's part of the draw. There's something always that could blow up.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, that's right. And part of the attraction to this?

[Monica Padman]

I think so, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I crave novelty. I crave a challenge. I crave being engaged. And because she's so smart and has such a wrong point of view, and it's so often different from mine, it's very ripe for very engaged, very heartfelt debate. And we love each other, so we would like to have the same opinion. So the stakes are high.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Now that makes for a great show. It's been going on for seven years.

[Walton Goggins]

Going on a long time.

[Dax Shepard]

We have to really navigate it quite often, but I think that's the best kind of relationship.

[Walton Goggins]

I agree with you.

[Dax Shepard]

I could never be with a fan. I have friends. I know people who are very successful, and then they get a very beautiful person who's just along for the ride and they're a fan. I would be so bored out of my mind. My wife is hard as a motherfucker.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Super smart, super talented, very driven, very ambitious. Gonna get her way. I need that.

[Walton Goggins]

I have that in my life. My wife is more often than not the smartest person in any room that I walk in. For sure. She's a intellectual baller. She understands the world. In a very nuanced, complex way and is able to walk with kings. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you gotta have your shit straight before you enter into a fray with her. Like she makes you. I'm presum, the very best version of yourself.

[Walton Goggins]

Well, I mean, I don't know. Or the worst version too. And the thing that I say often is I'm Zen 99% of the time. And she says, well, it's the 1% where you should be fucking Zen, man. You know, it's the 1% when you're challenged to that place and that's your lesson. I said, or maybe it's fucking not my lesson, but that's kind of that thing. I mean, I think I'm cool. I'm cool. I'm cool to. Hey, man, you. I'm not cool. That level of volatility is present in my work and maybe you feel that way in your work. And that is the same with my wife and all of my friends. I look for that in other people.

[Dax Shepard]

I need 10% crazy in the mix.

[Walton Goggins]

Absolutely.

[Dax Shepard]

And Monica's 26% crazy and I'm 35% crazy, so.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I would go up a little bit on that.

[Walton Goggins]

Is Kristen crazy?

[Dax Shepard]

That's a great question.

[Monica Padman]

Less and less.

[Dax Shepard]

Less and less and less.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Both of us, by the way, have gotten way milder. It can exist so much easier. It's 17 years. You're 19 years.

[Walton Goggins]

20. I've been married for that long, but we met on a blind date 20 years ago, January 11th.

[Dax Shepard]

The volume comes down on a lot of stuff.

[Walton Goggins]

It has. And we've gone through a lot and like every relationship, ups and downs and peaks and valleys. But there's this thing that has eluded us for so long and we see it coming. It's like, oh, I fucking know exactly how this is going to go down and I don't want to. Okay, let's step off this train right now. There's an off ramp right here, man. You could just turn around. Oh, she's not letting you leave. Oh, you're not letting her.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Walton Goggins]

Hey, you know what? Now we're due. I'm out, man. The little switch flips of here.

[Dax Shepard]

And a little burst of euphoria comes when you go, oh, I'm going to burn the house down.

[Walton Goggins]

Here we go. That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's a little bit intoxicating.

[Walton Goggins]

It is intoxicating. But you know who in my family doesn't have any of that is our child. He is so calm and so wise and so measured. Measured and Extremely passionate. A deep, deep, deep thinker.

[Dax Shepard]

What could be more fun?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, here's the limb I wanted to go out on.

[Walton Goggins]

Okay, let's go out on.

[Dax Shepard]

But I was curious, given the similar background, is it hard for you when someone's in a bad mood? Like, my things with my wife are generally. And I have this with Monica too. I have this with everyone in my life. If someone's in a really bad mood, I have this unreasonable desire to. To fix that for them and to regulate them. And if I can't do it, I'm very uncomfortable.

[Walton Goggins]

Right, because you spent a lifetime doing that, regulating kind of other people's.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, that was my guess. I'm wondering. Single mom. It's like, normally dad would be in charge of that. If mom's got an emotional issue, she.

[Walton Goggins]

Never fit that box. Right. She never fit that stereotype. Smoked a lot of weed. Had a really good time. Very passionate woman. Loved to have sex.

[Dax Shepard]

Mine too. My mom's an admitted love addict.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, absolutely. And started studying Params Yogananda and Joel Gold Goldsmith and the Urantia and the I Am. And went on this spiritual journey. Started when I was about 10 or 11 years old and had me reading all of those texts. So much so that I just kind of missed out on the classics because I felt like it was a waste of time. If you weren't doing something that was expanding kind of your consciousness, then why would you do it? I didn't realize until I was in a car with some friends that I had made in la. When I first moved out here, coming back from San Diego and hearing these people talk about Hemingway and Somerset, mom and Faulkner. And, you know, they had the opportunity to be in school, they had a college education. And hearing them cross reference these authors and how it was applicable to cinema or a song that they were listening to. And I just was in the back seat, wasn't saying anything. I was just listening to all of this. And I just thought, I want that kind of in my life to circle back to what you said. I had to please a lot of people. I had to please my father. I wasn't around him that much, but when I was, I desperately had to do that. That's not our problem. Early in my life, my problem was profound insecurity based on poverty and not having those things to the point where in high school or middle school, girlfriend's parents were coming to pick me up and I would give them an address that wasn't my address. And right before they were supposed to get me, I Say, okay, Mom, I gotta go. My mom had no structure, no boundaries. No boundaries whatsoever. My mom was like, I trust you. And so I would just slip out of the house, and I would go to Ken and Carol's house with the nicer home and just hide in the ditch or out by their bushes. And I would see the headlights kind of pulling, and I would just run out in the driveway and it's like, okay. And then the lights would come on and this. Is that your. I was like, ah, they're fine. Bye, Mom.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Helix. Sleep is one of those things where you don't realize how much it affects everything else until you actually fix it. I'm talking about waking up groggy, dealing with back pain, or just never feeling fully rested. A lot of that comes down to your mattress. And most of us are sleeping on something that wasn't designed for our specific body or sleep style. That's what I appreciate about Helix. They don't do the one size fits all thing. They actually customize the mattress based on how you do sleep, whether you're a side sleeper, back sleeper, you sleep hot, you have back pain, whatever. It's personalized to you, which makes a huge difference in how you actually feel when you wake up. I thought this part was pretty cool. Helix has a sleep quiz that'll match you with your perfect mattress in just a minute. Check it out. It's so easy. You just fill out some basic info, your sleep habits and preferences, and they'll provide a recommendation that addresses your specific needs. Go to helixsleep.com armchair for 27% off site wide. Exclusive for armchairs. That's helixsleep.com armchair, for 27% off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com armchair. Poverty is humiliating. When you're young like that, you just don't fit in.

[Walton Goggins]

We know. Never filled up our gas tank ever. I never remember my mom or an aunt or one of these crazy people I was with. No one had the money to put more than like three to five bucks in your gas tank. And so I had a lot of that. It's like a chip on your shoulder, but it's not. And then you allow for judging until it gets to a certain point, and then you react to that judging. It's like, well, wait a minute, I'm just as good as you. I had a lot of that shit early on, especially in Relationships. I was left a lot like a lot of people. Abandonment issues and just thinking, thinking, everyone leaves. Everyone's going to leave. So please don't love me or love me and please don't let me go. Yeah, I think that's a journey for a lot of people in my own journey in my own spiritual walk, which is a part of this whole experience of the White Lotus. Falling in love with yourself. God damn. If you can get to that point where you're okay with you, even though once you find it, it will very quickly disappear.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's transient.

[Walton Goggins]

Absolutely. And once you have that realization and once you have a degree of self love, at least this is what my experience was. That also came with real boundaries. I've gotten better about. This is no man's land right now. We're okay, but this is not okay with me. And I'm not poor anymore, but I don't think that ever fully leaves you.

[Dax Shepard]

I wrestle a lot with. I hated rich people. If they were a bad guy in the world, it was rich people. Because I felt less than around them. I didn't like how I felt. It's none of their fault. I now know that. But, you know, I had this chip on my shoulder. And then trying to come to terms with the reality of, oh, I'm one of those people that's a little discombobulating.

[Walton Goggins]

And there's shame around that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah. You feel survivor's guilt. It's complicated.

[Walton Goggins]

The thing that I had and something you kind of brought up earlier and experiencing it in the back of this car came up from San Diego. My envy wasn't around the acquisition of things. Even though I just wish we had some heat. You know what I mean? Like. Like these are just bare minimum.

[Monica Padman]

The water would stay.

[Walton Goggins]

Yes. I. I wish we had some yogurt.

[Dax Shepard]

Wish I didn't have to cut off half of this block of cheese to get to the good cheese.

[Walton Goggins]

That's exactly right. But it was time to think. I was jealous and envious of these people. Went to college and they were fucking in college. Even though they worked or whatever, but they had an opportunity to just sit and learn or read and then go talk about things that they had just learned. I never had the space to do that. I would have been good at it. I left school after a year and a half.

[Monica Padman]

We do forget. We take for granted that going to school and being able to be there and think critically is a privilege.

[Walton Goggins]

It is a privilege. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

We just do it. We think we have to do it. We go, we Try to get through it. And it should be rethought of or.

[Walton Goggins]

Just like a daily reminder of. This is a privilege. It's not a right. And what do you do with the time that you have at the microphone? What is it that you want to say? While I didn't have that in college, I have been able to, even without money, give myself those opportunities through travel and being alone, giving myself permission to be on the road for a very long period of time, understanding culture. I've talked about this in other interviews, so this isn't revelatory. But in addition to that, I feel that way about work. I feel that way about the time I am now afforded to give myself, to live in my imagination in preparation to start a job and to stay in that world over the course of telling that story. So I feel like I have that now. Like, that's my education. That's time to ask those existential questions or listen to that music this person would listen to or watch those movies, movies that are applicable to just experience your imagination. Yeah, that's right.

[Dax Shepard]

You have time and space.

[Walton Goggins]

Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

To fucking indulge this part of your brain that's so special.

[Walton Goggins]

And I don't take that for granted.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm with you. Yeah. I'm never interested in why someone wanted to become an actor, but with you, I am. How do we go from that tiny town in a year and a half in college? When do you go, oh, I'm gonna be a performer?

[Walton Goggins]

I feel like I was always a performer. I was raised around some very performative people. Interesting, funny people. They were great storytellers.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. If you're gonna take up time at the dinner table, it' better lamp.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. And even if you couldn't, because there were five stories going at once. Do you know what I mean? But more often than not, people would pass the baton in my household. And it wasn't a lot of talking over each other. It was depending on the level of inebriation, how fucking short or how long the story is. These were very eccentric people. When it was my turn to talk, you know, like little Walt, it was the great love of the women in my family. I knew that that, again, was a privilege and not a real right to be given the microphone around this group of really great storytellers. And I would tell my storytelling. I think that was always kind of a part of it, but I really kind of stumbled into it.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, when you moved to la, did you move here specifically to try to act?

[Walton Goggins]

I did. I wanted a great experience. I got an American Express in college my freshman year. As soon as I got there, God damn, I got mail. Who knows I'm going to school here? How do you guys know it's happening?

[Monica Padman]

Goggins 1.

[Dax Shepard]

Goggin.

[Walton Goggins]

I got a mailbox and it was four or five pieces of mail. And first thing that I opened was an offer to join American Express. And with this offer, in 1989 were two round trip tickets for $99 east of the Mississippi or $199 west of the Mississippi.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Oh, wow.

[Walton Goggins]

Plane tickets were like $1,000 from Atlanta to Los Angeles, 1989. I mean, they were not cheap. And I just saw it and I thought, this experience is over. I'm do my year in the school. I'm never going to spend a dollar on this card. I'll just have it and then I'm going to use both of these vouchers. And it's exactly what I did a year later.

[Monica Padman]

And who went with you?

[Walton Goggins]

Nobody. Oh, I went on my own.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you had two vouchers?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. Oh, because I had two.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. I didn't.

[Walton Goggins]

No, no, no. I used both of them. My dad came with me when I drove across country because he wanted to.

[Dax Shepard]

Get his eyes on the big.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, the big city.

[Dax Shepard]

I wish you could have seen this photo. His dad is adorned head to toe in black leather, turquoise on every single finger. He has photo. People do ask him for photos everywhere he goes. He's a very interesting person. He's visiting Walton in New York and people are asking for photos and he's. Oh, well, I have one signed. He has signed photos of himself. He has signed photos of Walton that he has signed.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my. You need to make a mug with his picture of that. And it needs to say, there's no this without me, because that's all so true.

[Walton Goggins]

And that's the end of the interview.

[Dax Shepard]

Tit for tat. Yeah, the ride, really. So I'm gonna blow through a couple because I want to get to three things.

[Walton Goggins]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

The shield is the first. From the outside, seems like you're now in the big leagues. You have a steady paycheck. You're one of the season regulars. Is that the big.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I think so. I moved here when I was 19. I had $300 in my pocket and I lived the way that I lived and worked how I worked. And then what gave me permission not to feel like I needed to work anymore, even though I did for a little while afterwards, was the Apostle with Robert Duvall.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh.

[Walton Goggins]

And that was the. Wow. Okay. That's my hero. And so that was really. Even though I was working, I think I made $21,000 over three months for the next Karate Kid. For me, that was a lot of money.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, clearly, yeah. From 19 to 30, you are, when you get on the shield, 29.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, 29. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You make it work. You're on Beverly Hills 90210.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I did a fair amount of films, but then I thought, like, Shanghai Noon was going to be the thing.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

I had a pretty big role in Bourne Identity that ultimately they decided to go with Gabriel man instead, and they just offered me another thing. People didn't know what the fuck to do with me. No one was paying attention. And I had some extraordinary experiences on location over that first 10 years. And then the Shield happened. Yeah. When I was 29, and nobody knew that it was going to be what.

[Dax Shepard]

It became, 86 episodes or something.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, 86. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. So I think this is so fascinating. You had auditioned for Eastbound and Down and you didn't get it.

[Walton Goggins]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

And the feedback was David Gordon Green.

[Walton Goggins]

Who'S a friend of mine from the independent film circuit. I just called and said, you know, Danny absolutely loves you, but just it might be a little too dangerous for what we're doing. It's a little too chaotic. Not even chaotic. It's just a little scary. I said to Danny, look, man, I think you need somebody to go toe to toe with you.

[Dax Shepard]

You know what I mean?

[Walton Goggins]

Something.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

And then we have some friends in common. Leslie Bibb actually had New Year's Eve party, and Danny and David were there, and I was there. She's one of my best friends with. Then that was kind of the beginning of a conversation.

[Dax Shepard]

I remember watching an interview with Todd Phillips, and I thought he said the coolest thing. He said, you know, for me, comedy that is good has to be very dangerous. Oh, it's not comedy to me. If you, like, look at his work, you're like, oh, yeah, it's kind of high stakes. Everything's a little scary. You look at, you know, the hangover. Any of these, they go wild when they're going to jump a van. They're going to jump a fucking van.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're real stakes.

[Dax Shepard]

So then you get to come in and do vice principals.

[Walton Goggins]

They offered it and I was doing the Hateful Eight. We were in Colorado and I read it and he talked about it at this party and read it and thought, okay, this I know what to do with. And so I just kind of did that. And it was three lines into it where I think he was like, okay.

[Dax Shepard]

You'Re outrageously good in that. I couldn't believe the story of Hateful Eight. And if you would just indulge me and Monica, I think the audition for Hateful Eight is one of my favorite. Favorite audition stories I've heard.

[Walton Goggins]

If it's the story that I think you're talking about, that was for Django.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, Duh. But you get hateful, which led to.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, the hateful.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm sorry. That's easy.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's easy. I can't believe. You know what? You know, honestly.

[Dax Shepard]

But it starts with the call to Rodriguez.

[Walton Goggins]

I get this script like everybody else in town, and I read it on the plane to New York and stand with a friend, and it's one of the best things I've ever read in my life. He's only made nine, you know, so it's the repeat cast. It's the golden ticket. It's a very small group of people. I just feel that way about Mike White and the White Lotus. There are a number of filmmakers that have that stable of actors, and if you can kind of get in that. Christopher Guest. I mean, unbelievable. But Quentin is probably by far the most in my book. But I read it, and it's like, I don't have to get this. I just want to fucking read these words in front of this man. And so I called Robert Rodriguez, who's a friend of mine, and they're obviously really good friends. And I said, man, I've never asked you for anything. Could you please text Quentin for me and just say that I have this guy, like, to read. Ten minutes later, he texted back the text from Quentin, which was, I love Goggins. I love his work, you know? And it was like, fuck. Okay, well, then that's.

[Monica Padman]

Did you print it out and frame it?

[Walton Goggins]

Unbelievable.

[Dax Shepard]

That's enough. It's more than I wanted. Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

We could ever expect, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. It's always nice to live your life as if you should be surprised if anyone has seen any fucking thing done.

[Dax Shepard]

But to be seen by a hero just feels really crazy.

[Monica Padman]

And then liked.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, that's have to see.

[Monica Padman]

Liked and appreciated.

[Walton Goggins]

And then it just happened to coincide with a really good friend of Quentin's was one of my wife's dear friends, and she called and she said, I just read the script, and you gotta be in this movie, man. You're in.

[Dax Shepard]

You're one of these guys.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. And she said, let's have a dinner with Quentin. I'm the guy that's like, no, no, no, I don't want to do that. I don't ask anyone guy out of this dinner. Talk about everything but the script until the very end. And I said, I think this is what you're saying how I felt. A thousand people have probably said. He said, well, I want you to come in and just pick a few roles. And so I did. Started kind of reading them, and there it was. And he was like, that's fucking great, man. I'll be speaking to you. And I said, well, I'm not leaving. I said, well, I didn't come here just to read these three roles. I don't give a fuck if I get this job, man. I just want to read your words in front of you. I want to read all of these roles.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to read Leo. I want to read Sam.

[Walton Goggins]

He was Kurt Russell. It's like, I just want to read this shit. He's like, really? And he said, okay, let's do it. And then he read everyone else in the scenes.

[Monica Padman]

He did the whole movie, basically.

[Walton Goggins]

We worked for like an hour, hour and a half. We did a lot. How fucking mad? Big seminal scenes. Just the unadulterated enthusiasm and love for what he puts out in the world and his words. And at the end of it, it was like, fucking really good to see you, man. Can't wait for the next time.

[Dax Shepard]

This will cross my mind on my deathbed. Thank you.

[Walton Goggins]

Thank you, man.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, how cool.

[Walton Goggins]

And then, yeah, you get the call. A couple of months went by. It's like, okay, buddy, come down to New Orleans and play with us.

[Monica Padman]

What if you're like, I can't. I don't want it. I just came to just do that one thing. I don't really want to be in the movie.

[Dax Shepard]

It was top what happened.

[Walton Goggins]

But thanks. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

[Dax Shepard]

I imagine you deal with this. The characters are so fucking different. I may have seen vice principals, but if I don't follow show business, I don't realize that's the guy from hateful8. They're so different. And if I. I fell in love with Uncle Baby Billy, I'm not putting that together with the Shield. It's almost probably a bit of an Achilles, which is. I think you deserve to be the biggest star in the world. But I think the work is so unique and different. I don't know. People are connecting the dots because now I'm a hyper fan and I didn't even think, all right, I got to go and watch. I went and watched Justified. I had never seen it, but I'm like, I'll go up for Goggins. God damn, he's great in that again. But I watched Hateful Eight couple months ago. In a sea of the most talented people. That's the performance in the movie. It's incred. I can't believe you went from a smaller role in Django and then got called to the big leagues and did what you did in that movie is fucking nuts, dude.

[Walton Goggins]

Thank you, man.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God, it's so impressive. I'm so happy for you that you got to go into Tarantino's world and have him trust you with that much and then to fucking score touchdown after touchdown.

[Walton Goggins]

Well, look, maybe you feel this way. A lot of people in this business and outside of this business listen to your podcast, and I think for so many of us kind of coming up, I mean, we're from a different generation, but the barriers to entry, the gatekeepers to this experience, it's like every day you're not even trying to get to Base Camp one on Mount Everest. You're just trying to get up that Nepal to the airport hill that you're going to fall down. Yeah, that's right. You just running in a flight of the airport Nepal.

[Dax Shepard]

At that point, it's as far as you could have gone. If you feel like I do about.

[Walton Goggins]

Tarantino, that's exactly how I feel. But whenever you see someone that's been around for a long time, like Rockwell or Crudup, I mean, Garrett Dillahunt, all of of these fucking people that have been around for a really long time, and we've been around for a long time, and you just see consistently good work over a long time, and it's like, oh, wow. I mean, Pedro Pascal's been doing great work for such a long time. And it's like, wow, okay, there's one for the good guys. Yes. There is no limit on their staying power.

[Dax Shepard]

They're inoculated by talent and wisdom and choices.

[Walton Goggins]

And so the guys I'm also a fan of, I won't name any names, but we know them. The people that if you were an envious person, which I'm really not, except other people's careers, they really don't look in Other Language. But the people in my twenties, for a moment was like, I wish I could, you know, but I wouldn't trade my walk for those three years. And I think you probably wouldn't either. I've been Walking the road that I've been walking for a very long time.

[Dax Shepard]

I would argue it's preferred.

[Walton Goggins]

I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

When you're young, if you come out and you drop right into the World Series, it's hard to appreciate, it's hard to conceptualize. It's hard to integrate.

[Walton Goggins]

And it's hard to stay.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, it's hard to stay and to kind of just keep walking in the back door and then you leave and you're like, who was that guy? That was that. You know, it's so preferred for your life story, your own narrative self. It's such the way to do it.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I think so. You don't remember this, but very first time I met you, it was nothing more of like a hey. But it was really just me across the room silently thinking like, you fuck this fucking guy.

[Monica Padman]

Why?

[Walton Goggins]

What is a true story? Cause it was for an audition and it was just the two of us in this room. And I walked in and I looked at you and you were sitting behind this desk and it was like a room with chairs. They had us kind of waiting. It maybe it was a second call back or something, I don't know. But I walked in and was like, oh, this guy. I just felt like, it ain't my day.

[Dax Shepard]

What? I don't know this well.

[Walton Goggins]

It was scared. No. Employee of the month.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God.

[Walton Goggins]

With Dane.

[Dax Shepard]

Dane.

[Walton Goggins]

And Dane came in. I don't know if you knew him. I don't remember. But there was some employee interaction that it was just like this easy. Oh, these guys.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, that is so funny to believe this story.

[Walton Goggins]

I don't remember where it was, but I remember the room and I remember where you were sitting. No way. And then seeing the movie kind of when it came out, I was like, wow, you know what? Yeah, it was his for sure.

[Monica Padman]

That's an ego boost for you. Should be.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And yeah, if I were you, I would hate me. No. Yes. Like what? This was on.

[Walton Goggins]

You kind of walk walking in one and it's like, oh, well, you know what? I'm still going to have fun. And I did.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to see the version of the movie with you.

[Walton Goggins]

I don't know, man.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my God. That's crazy. That just blew my mind. Okay, last thing before White Lotus is of course, Righteous Gemstones. Uncle Baby Billy.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, I see all your shit out of order. So I first saw Righteous and I was like, who the fuck is this guy putting Uncle Baby Billy and Chris? I just obsessed with the show. I'm writing emails to Danny who I barely know, but I have to tell him after every episode. The pilot of that, I'm like, did so Scorsese fucking direct this pilot? This is a comedy. Look at these shots. We fall so in love with you. Well, he was in vice principals. We learned. We go back. I watch vice principals just because I'm now on my Walton Goggins train. And I'm like, oh, my God, he's this. And this. I don't really have a question.

[Walton Goggins]

We just finished the fourth season. It's really good. I can't tell you anything that it's about, but the first episode of season four, and I'm going to go on record as. As soon saying this as a piece of writing. If I had read that in the Atlantic, I think the would be nominated for a Pulitzer.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Walton Goggins]

You know, really what he's saying at this stage of his exploration in that world. And everybody obviously has a great arc and a great story, but baby Billy will have the summer 2025 hit. I'm going to tell you right now what? Whatever you're wearing right now, come June or whatever, when you're a bathing suit, you will be singing this fucking song, I promise.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Walton Goggins]

It's good, y'. All.

[Monica Padman]

I can't believe.

[Walton Goggins]

And it says a lot about a lot. It's cool.

[Dax Shepard]

I guess my one question about vice principles and righteous is if you had to guess at a percentage, what percentage is you guys riffing? And what percentage is on the page? It feels impossibly organic.

[Walton Goggins]

98% is on the page. No shit. No shit.

[Monica Padman]

He's so brilliant.

[Dax Shepard]

That's some writing.

[Walton Goggins]

Edie Patterson.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

She can let her rip.

[Walton Goggins]

Do anything. Adam can fucking do that. Michaela Watkins can do that. Cordry. That's not my thing. But I understand where the story is, and I understand. Okay, these are five or six tangents that I can go down. Turn yourself over to that and see kind of where that takes you. But he realized that about me very early on, that it's the words on the part page that is liberating to me.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, right, right, right.

[Walton Goggins]

And then we carried that into Righteous Gemstones. I think I'll work with him for the rest of my life.

[Dax Shepard]

If there was a career to envy, it'd be yours, because you're in the Tarantino stuff. But I would say of the television shows, my favorite comedy is definitely Righteous Gemstones. I think my favorite big, huge action thing is Fallout. I love that show.

[Walton Goggins]

Thanks, man.

[Dax Shepard]

And then my very favorite both of Ours, kind of social commentary, character Y deliciousness is White Lotus. You're in the three shows. My favorite. The two previous seasons have been so good. I think we all had so much anxiety when season two came around, because I'm like, how on earth. That hotel manager in season one, like, who's gonna pick up that slack?

[Walton Goggins]

And then it did. Delivered.

[Monica Padman]

They did it.

[Dax Shepard]

His social commentary and what he's able to tackle, which I feel like you're not allowed to. And he does perfectly.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Just the notion. Last season, you had these two couples, and these two cheat. They're shitty. And this is the good one. And then as you're playing with it, you're like, well, I'm not sure which one I'd rather be part of.

[Walton Goggins]

That's right.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, here's the perfect guy. Says all the right things. Why isn't she horny for him? We got to deal with that. That's a real thing. It's so brave and awesome.

[Walton Goggins]

It is. And no one writes an existential crisis the way that he does. Wealth gives him permission, I think, to parody these people and to make them real simultaneously, because these situations do happen to people outside of this very specific economic kind of section of society that he explores.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

This is his words, not mine. If first season was about money, the second season was about sex. This season is about religion. It was everything that I had hoped it would be. And there are so many things that happened over the course of this experience that I'm not at liberty to really talk about.

[Dax Shepard]

Tough project to promote, actually.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, it is with a lot of projects, but that one in particular, I think they do actually kill you. There's a body floating somewhere. But I felt like I had my own Apocalypse now, that I was with Willard in a boat going upstream to meet Captain Kurtz, which was also me.

[Dax Shepard]

Because of the real life or the story?

[Walton Goggins]

Because of the story that I was telling.

[Dax Shepard]

Does it help that you're in Thailand for six months living at the actual hotel you're working in?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, living at the hotel. And sometimes the hotel was completely bought out, so it was just us. And then other times, you know, they weren't able to do that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

So you're literally checking in as an actor next to guests that are actually there on vacation.

[Dax Shepard]

You're, like, peeking at the hotel pool, going like, oh, wow, that's that character.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. It's a weird fourth wall being broken.

[Walton Goggins]

In a way, but I've seen two episodes, and it's really fucking good.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, I cannot wait.

[Walton Goggins]

And it's similar, but it's different. And I can say that my journey in this world, it's something that hasn't been seen or explored by Mike in other seasons. But everyone just kills it.

[Dax Shepard]

Is it hard being there, though, for six months? No.

[Walton Goggins]

Fuck, yeah, man. I mean, I've been home 11 days this year. In success, it becomes harder, you know? And that's the thing. I don't think people realize.

[Dax Shepard]

Cause you're having to turn down now really great opportunities just away from home.

[Walton Goggins]

For a long time. It's lonely.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

I don't think people anticipate that. It's like, oh, my God, I'm getting all these opportunities, and it's incredible. But at the end of the day, you go back to a house or your hotel room and you're alone, which I'm good at. And if I'm having a problem with it, I know other people are. Everyone went through their own crisis over the course of this experience, which is.

[Monica Padman]

Maybe helpful for the project.

[Walton Goggins]

It's a story that can induce that experience.

[Monica Padman]

Exactly.

[Walton Goggins]

Certainly for me, the way that I approach. Approach this way of storytelling, it was a fucking incredible experience. It had everything in it, soup to nuts. And I can't wait for you to see it. And I can't wait to hear what you think about when you do see it.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. I'm so excited.

[Walton Goggins]

We'll come back on at the end.

[Dax Shepard]

Of this thing when you get the call to join that cast.

[Walton Goggins]

It was interesting because they were doing season two, and I didn't know Mike, but we had friends in common, like we all do at this point. And I remember my agent saying, well, you should write a letter to Mike. It's like, nah, man, I ain't ain't that guy. I ain't doing that. They didn't tell me that conversations were even happening or that it was getting close. And then I was out here. We were doing early press for Fallout and went out to dinner with my agents, which I hadn't seen in a while. And they said, listen, congratulations. I said, for what? And then they said, mike wants you to do White Lotus season three. And I just started fucking bawling, started shaking at the table, really, because I felt like it's a world I could have help him tell his story.

[Dax Shepard]

For a white woman, you really were.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I suppose I would have felt that way if any other show or movie you're excited about or filmmaker, but it's when you understand, like Quentin, I felt like I know how to tell his story. I felt that way with Mike and a few of the filmmakers that I've gotten an opportunity to work with over the course of my career. This is one of them that I walked outside and called my wife.

[Monica Padman]

That's amazing.

[Dax Shepard]

My last question to land the plane is, I also follow you on Instagram. I also know Cordrey goes with you to, like, Greece or Italy. You guys will do a proper summer and another country. It seems like you're putting as much effort into your actual life being as artistic as your work life.

[Walton Goggins]

Absolutely.

[Dax Shepard]

And I'd imagine some people might think that just happens, but I imagine you got to actually approach your life just like you do a role.

[Walton Goggins]

Wow. Never had anyone say that. Yeah. I think that it's with intention. And so it just happens to be a very long stretch. We sold our home in Los Angeles and we moved across the country, and we bit off maybe a little bit more than we could chew. And it's like, okay, I got to go. Go to work. Even though I've never really done anything just for the money or that I'm not proud of or that I didn't want to do, but I got offered a movie right when the strikes were being talked about. I had this trip planned, and they said, we'll offer you this amount of money. And I said, thank you, but no thank you. And they said, okay, what about this amount of money? And I said, thank you, but no thank you. He said, what would it take? I said, there is no amount of money. I'm sorry. And your listeners or other actors may say, fuck that guy. You know what? I hadn't seen my kid in a bit little long time. And I had seen my friends, and that time with my kid, it means more to me than anything. We're going to do that again this year with intention. Whatever you can afford. My mom did it in Panama City Beach, Florida, in a fucking tent. That is time, and it's far too precious at this stage of the game. And it is something that you can never get back. And I have shame and remorse and regret about the time that I have been away. Like anyone does with their children, it's with intention and. And we're gonna live the out of life. Strap yourself in.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, strap yourself up.

[Monica Padman]

Let's all end on this.

[Walton Goggins]

Strap in.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's strap in.

[Walton Goggins]

Thank you so much. Godaddy. Arrow.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, you got a Super bowl commercial. Let's just add that.

[Walton Goggins]

Hey, man, this is gonna come out after. Yeah, that's exactly right.

[Monica Padman]

Go back and watch it on YouTube.

[Dax Shepard]

Goggles. Super bowl commercial. Well deserved.

[Walton Goggins]

Go daddy.

[Dax Shepard]

Arrow and hopefully people will Be watching the commercial. God, you look great.

[Monica Padman]

You look so. Everyone looks so good.

[Walton Goggins]

You know what? If you could imagine every day just feeling like apres ski.

[Monica Padman]

I love it. I'm gonna wear them out.

[Dax Shepard]

What I'm thinking, Monica, is our long standing debate about whether or not I could fly an airplane if the pilot went down.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

You with those goggles on.

[Monica Padman]

You think I did.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm not sure who should be flying the airplane, you or me.

[Monica Padman]

That is quite the compliment.

[Walton Goggins]

You look like a professional in any field with as. Hey, you know, what an honor, man.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I'm so glad this finally for us. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

We've been trying to get you in for years.

[Walton Goggins]

Thank you. You're so generous of yourselves and so giving of your time and such great listeners. And thank you.

[Dax Shepard]

What a pleasure, man. Just loving you from afar. So. The fact that we're sitting together is such a blast for me. I adore you, Walton. This has been my blast. Thank you.

[Walton Goggins]

What a joy. What a joy.

[Dax Shepard]

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gotta let him have the facts.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, look at our trophy.

[Dax Shepard]

Look at our trophy.

[Monica Padman]

That's a cool trophy. Very space age.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. It's meant be to be hung.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

It has this at the bottom. I guess it looks like a quotation above someone's head.

[Monica Padman]

It does.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm holding up a square armchair expert with AX Shepherd Spotify 500 million streams plaque. We were awarded gold status. Gold status. I need to start this fact check by saying my most deepest thank you. I've never been more. More grateful than last night. I was asked to be one of Bill's 10 or 11 stops on his book tour.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Awesome.

[Dax Shepard]

And it was at a live event, the Carmere. I don't know, some beautiful theater.

[Monica Padman]

Where?

[Dax Shepard]

In San Francisco.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, nice.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Sorry if you already said that.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I don't think I did. Okay. For the listener. I didn't say that. Okay. It's not right.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's not. Handheld mics. I can't go out ahead of time and warm everything up and then bring Bill out. There's like a whole thing. You know, it's their show.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And there'll be a video and another woman introduce us for a while and then we sit down. I'm in the wrong side. Suffice to say, it just wasn't like one of our shows.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

So I guess that gave me not a ton. I'm not going to exaggerate. Maybe like 20% nerves.

[Monica Padman]

Of course it's different.

[Dax Shepard]

And it's like, I don't know if it's all people there to see Bill Gates, and they're learning who I am and they don't understand I'm gonna have a sense of humor, whatever. All this to say. Soon as we sat down, I said, are there any arm cherries here? And Moni loved it. The whole place was arm cherries.

[Monica Padman]

Aw, that's so sweet.

[Dax Shepard]

And I immediately felt so comfortable and confident and relaxed.

[Monica Padman]

That's awesome.

[Dax Shepard]

And I was so grate. I couldn't believe how grateful I was. I was like, fucking armchairs show up.

[Monica Padman]

They really do show up.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And you know, I had my whole family.

[Monica Padman]

Yes. Your original family.

[Dax Shepard]

The of.

[Monica Padman]

Yep. Your sister, your brother and your mom.

[Dax Shepard]

That's right. The original crew. The original four. Yeah, the fab four.

[Monica Padman]

Was that lovely?

[Dax Shepard]

It was lovely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they got to meet Bill for a while.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And my brother has been obsessed with Bill since he was a kid.

[Monica Padman]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah. Cause my brother was very into computers.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't know that.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, how special.

[Dax Shepard]

Obsessed with Bill Gates his whole life.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Even when I was talking to him before the event, I was saying like, oh, my God, you gotta read the book. It's so funny. There are so many funny stories in this book about him being 13 and showing up places with a briefcase and business suits on and making products, and the whole thing is so. It's sounds like a cartoon.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And he was like, oh, yeah. My favorite thing is that his mom said, what are you doing in here in his bedroom? And he said, I'm thinking you should try it. And my brother just knew all this stuff I had just learned in the book that he somehow had already known. Anywho, they got to chat for quite a long time, and it was a very special experience for my brother.

[Monica Padman]

That's great.

[Dax Shepard]

And, yeah, it was sweet. And then he. Yesterday we gave it to San Francisco straight up the hiney.

[Walton Goggins]

We.

[Dax Shepard]

In four hours, we saw that whole city.

[Monica Padman]

Nice.

[Dax Shepard]

We saw Alcatraz. We saw the Golden Gate Bridge, the Bay Bridge. We went through Chinatown. We went through North Beach. We went to Lombard Street. We got on the trolley and rode the full loop of the trolley hanging out the side. Monica.

[Monica Padman]

So is that something you do with your original family? Because I don't think you do that with your family.

[Dax Shepard]

No. My brother had never been to San Francisco, shockingly. But so, yeah, seeing Alcatraz and all that stuff. The Golden Gate Bridge is all very Exciting. Trolley rice. A roni. The San Francisco tree.

[Monica Padman]

Full house. Ding, ding, ding.

[Dax Shepard]

Olson's Lombard Street. Do you know Lombard Street?

[Monica Padman]

I've heard.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't know. It's the one that's really twisty, that goes down the extremely steep. And when my brother and I were children, there was a show called you can't do this on television. No, that's Nickelodeon. It was called that's incredible. Doug Demokis, the wheelie king. Rode a dirt bike, a wheelie, down Lombard Street. Oh. Never putting it down. Rode over cars on a wheelie.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that sounds bad.

[Dax Shepard]

It was a very memorable Seminole moment on television for us. And so to be on lumbar, where our hero, Doug Demokis had done that. So sweet wheelie. And then some arm cherries were in a 1960s VW microbus coming down Lombard street and started hollering out the window.

[Monica Padman]

Sometimes people shout out the window in their arm cherries. This happens. And I just want to say to anyone who does that to me, it just happened a few times.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Don't think I'm a.

[Dax Shepard]

If you get shook a little bit.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Or my first reaction is like, really twist eye rolly. Not. I really like, don't.

[Dax Shepard]

Don't hurt me.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, don't hurt me. Don't hurt me.

[Dax Shepard]

Don't hurt me, please.

[Monica Padman]

Scared and angry. That's just my reaction.

[Dax Shepard]

But then you, you let it in.

[Monica Padman]

But then they say, like, I'm listening or I listen or I'm gonna. Whatever. And then I, I, I stopped listening. I don't like it anymore. What happened?

[Dax Shepard]

Yelled up.

[Monica Padman]

Should have never done video. Yeah. Recently a guy did that. He honked. And then he. I looked over with a mean face. And then he pointed. He. He was listening at that moment. He, like, raised the volume. Oh, and that was exciting.

[Dax Shepard]

But I got scared. When you thought you just. When you just pointed. It looked like he was pointing at his crotch, but it was obvious. It was the.

[Monica Padman]

An armchair would never do that.

[Dax Shepard]

I know he wouldn't, but I'm saying it was clear that he was pointing to his stereo.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, great. Because when you just did it, it wasn't clear.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Okay. Anyway, so go on.

[Dax Shepard]

Lombard Street, Chinatown, Italy. Alcatraz. That fucking trolley made us so happy. The cable card. Because that's really classic. I just said the cable card. The cable card.

[Monica Padman]

It didn't read.

[Dax Shepard]

You know, I just think it's nuts. There's a cable running under the street.

[Monica Padman]

It is.

[Dax Shepard]

That they put in in 1870. That's still going, Going in a Circle also had some great meals.

[Monica Padman]

Ooh.

[Dax Shepard]

Really great meals.

[Monica Padman]

San Francisco has great cuisine.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my goodness. In fact, one of these places, if you're there, I insist you go. Called Cavalier. It's done up. It's a bar, restaurant, tavern, and it's done as an English hunting lodge. And the decor was. Decor really works for me.

[Monica Padman]

For everyone.

[Dax Shepard]

It does work for everyone.

[Monica Padman]

Right. Aesthetics are important. I guess I should admit something really gross.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Distasteful.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Just bad. But since we are honest here.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

When you. When you started your fact check about wanting to say thank you.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I thought you were saying thank you to me.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I can thank you as well.

[Monica Padman]

Because I thought where the story was.

[Dax Shepard]

Going was that it's so much easier together.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, that's true. That's totally true. I should have said that. I'm sad I didn't say that.

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I always walk out with you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

So in tattoo, I mean, if we eat a big turd together, it'll be together.

[Monica Padman]

Right. I thought maybe that's what was coming. And then I thought, oh, it's not. Maybe it's a different. Thank you also to me, because guess.

[Dax Shepard]

What, Guess what was the second reason.

[Monica Padman]

I probably agree with it, too, because you were gone. And you, as you said, you took your sweet sister who runs this house. Household keeps it in check.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

And Kristen was at a table read yesterday. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but I think it came out. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's been announced for the show.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Season 2A.

[Dax Shepard]

Bill inquired about it because he's a dad. He's a dad. I tried to explain that to him. He didn't understand that. Why that. That's why he liked it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. It's hard to explain that to people. But anyway, so she was at a tipper. So she was at Fox. She was far away. And Ana was with her.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And Lincoln had a tummy ache.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, no. So did you have to rescue her?

[Monica Padman]

So I went to pick her up.

[Dax Shepard]

Was that your first time at that school?

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And isn't it beautiful?

[Monica Padman]

First of all, it's beautiful. We won't say what it is, even though you probably already have on here.

[Dax Shepard]

I have.

[Monica Padman]

It's beautiful. But I was lost.

[Dax Shepard]

Yep.

[Monica Padman]

It's, like big.

[Dax Shepard]

It's like a mini ucla.

[Monica Padman]

There's a campus. And I was lost. And I kept having to ask, like, teens.

[Dax Shepard]

But there's so confident. Did you. So what my. I think the first thing is you're like, wow, this is a really pretty campus that quickly. Pals in comparison to how palpable the confidence is of all those gals running around. Yeah, they're. They're on. They're living out loud.

[Monica Padman]

But yeah. So I kept having to ask all these teens. One teen really was like, the middle school's over there. Like, she was bad at it.

[Dax Shepard]

Middle school.

[Monica Padman]

And I was like, I'm cool. Like, I have a podcast. Do you listen to the podcast? I must have stopped three different people, and I could not figure it out. But I eventually.

[Dax Shepard]

Eventually I never got her.

[Monica Padman]

She's still there. Did she get home and then, you know, she picked me up or she grabbed.

[Dax Shepard]

Swung by on her motorcycle and grabbed me because I was lost.

[Monica Padman]

But it was so cute. And she said, oh, I thought you would be in San Francisco or wherever. I thought you'd. I thought you'd be with dad. And I said, oh, no, it's just dad. He.

[Walton Goggins]

He.

[Monica Padman]

She was like, he. He kicked you out. Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, Jesus.

[Monica Padman]

And I said, no, that's not really how it works.

[Dax Shepard]

No benefit of the doubt there. Yeah. She went straight to. I kicked you out.

[Monica Padman]

She did. I said, yeah, you should punch him. I didn't want to tell her that her appendix might explode. And that's what was. Go. Mid maybe going on.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, sure. That was your first, though.

[Monica Padman]

That was my instinct. So I stuck around in case it didn't explode.

[Dax Shepard]

It didn't. It didn't she have a poop and then feel.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't ask.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I'll find out tonight.

[Walton Goggins]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

My first question involved about the poops. You get that thing out. You get it. I have one really special moment before the show. They said, we want to do a viral video with them. And I was like, of course. So we played this game.

[Monica Padman]

Heads up.

[Dax Shepard]

And then what's funny is it was tests on things from the book.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

But they put in Catcher in the Rye, which wasn't in the book.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

But he said something, and then I got it. I was. It was on my head.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And he goes, was that in the book? And I go, I don't think that was in the book. Is that one of your favorite books? And he goes, oh, yeah. And I go, oh, it's my absolute favorite book. And then we're like. We talk for two seconds. And I go, is that why you named your daughter Phoebe? And he goes, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, cute.

[Dax Shepard]

And I go, I. From the second I read that book, I was like, if I have a daughter, it's going to be Phoebe. And it felt very connected. I really liked like that. I had had the same exact.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Kadems. And I had that bonding moment, too. I think a handful of men have named their daughter's feet because they fell in love with that character.

[Monica Padman]

You know you didn't do that, right?

[Dax Shepard]

Is that not my firstborn's name?

[Monica Padman]

So sorry to tell you.

[Dax Shepard]

Maybe.

[Monica Padman]

So sorry.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Well, that's because we thought we were having a boy, if you recall.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Now you know, you have another Delta. Could have ended up being a Fe.

[Monica Padman]

She would have been such a good Phoebe.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, she would have that name.

[Monica Padman]

Really would have.

[Dax Shepard]

It would. Although Delta really works pretty good for her too. Of course. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I can't imagine. Yeah. Maybe if I have one, I'll name it Phoebe.

[Dax Shepard]

That's a ding, ding, ding. People have been pointing out in the comments that my new over indexing is Delta. Oh. Which is 100% true.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Not Delta. My daughter.

[Monica Padman]

Oh.

[Dax Shepard]

The distance between two things. The gap. Yeah. Yeah. When I talk about. I'll say Delta and people are really noticing it and I. Guilty as charged. Okay. Yeah. I love it. It's very. It's very efficient.

[Monica Padman]

It is.

[Dax Shepard]

Instead of saying the difference between or a gap between.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, actually. Yeah, I guess you do do that.

[Dax Shepard]

I do it a lot. Yeah. I really got it from Formula one. They. They. They use Delta a lot in Formula One. What did you do while I was gone other than get lost at Lincoln's Point on campus?

[Monica Padman]

There's just something about being at school.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I like it.

[Monica Padman]

I went to In N Out this week. Weekend.

[Dax Shepard]

You did?

[Monica Padman]

Y.

[Dax Shepard]

You got animal style fries and a. And a what?

[Monica Padman]

A single. And I got. No, I got.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm going to blow my nose.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Sorry.

[Monica Padman]

That's okay. Have you blown today?

[Dax Shepard]

I've lost some progress.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, all right.

[Dax Shepard]

It hasn't returned to the insanity, but it's also okay.

[Monica Padman]

Did you slip up on your trip with blowing? Yeah, probably.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Hotel room.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I bring tissues over to the bed every night to have them ready. And then when they're there, then I kind of got to use them. But I can't risk that I will make it without blowing my nose and have to get up. It's. There's a lot of stuff to consider.

[Monica Padman]

I know. Did anything else interesting happen? This. Oh, my God. Super Bowl.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, D. Crazy. What was your favorite commercial?

[Monica Padman]

The Nike women's commercial.

[Dax Shepard]

That was awesome. Playing Led Zeppelin.

[Monica Padman]

Bought the shirt.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, God. That was very cool commercial. That was probably the best. But man, I love Willem Defoe.

[Monica Padman]

I do. I do, too. I mean, hen o'. Hara. I know that was a good pairing.

[Dax Shepard]

But he's just friend of the pod.

[Monica Padman]

Go check out his episode.

[Dax Shepard]

He's so unique. What a gift. He is.

[Monica Padman]

He is a blessing. Love him.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I loved that.

[Monica Padman]

He's a blessing.

[Dax Shepard]

He is.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That was good.

[Dax Shepard]

He's like in a Wes Anderson movie, even if he's in a commercial.

[Monica Padman]

That was great. I couldn't hear all of them.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I didn't see most of them. I started it an hour and a half late.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you did?

[Dax Shepard]

I did.

[Monica Padman]

Wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And then fast forwarded through everything to catch up.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

Not needing to catch up, as it turned out, because nothing changed.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. But the only thing I cared about really, really delivered, which was the halftime show.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, the halftime show.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God.

[Dax Shepard]

I loved it. But I definitely thought his mic was too low. I was having the hardest time hear him. Like the first four songs.

[Monica Padman]

Well, we couldn't hear, but it was.

[Dax Shepard]

It was a bad mix.

[Monica Padman]

It was the TV. No, because when I watch it on YouTube, I could hear everything.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, really?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, you should watch it on YouTube.

[Dax Shepard]

I wonder if on YouTube they clean that up.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, maybe.

[Dax Shepard]

But on the broadcast, I was like, his vocals need to be way up. Just barely hearing the words on YouTube. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I thought it was so good and so well done and so smart as he is. All of those things. I don't know. I just thought it was so powerful.

[Dax Shepard]

I. It.

[Monica Padman]

Love. I loved it. And there's all these, like, hid. I love hidden things.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. What were some of the. The.

[Walton Goggins]

The hideies.

[Monica Padman]

What clues?

[Dax Shepard]

What were. What was in there?

[Monica Padman]

Well, did you realize you probably. These probably aren't clues. They're probably obvious. But Stage was a PlayStation because it. The whole thing is like game. The game. He's like, playing this game with Drake.

[Dax Shepard]

Uhhuh.

[Monica Padman]

Also, when Samuel Jackson is out there, it's kind.

[Dax Shepard]

I thought he was incredible.

[Monica Padman]

Incredible Uncle Sam.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, my. So incred. That's. That's a hard lift. He's got to pop in and out. Perfect timing.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Dax Shepard]

Finish before he's got to start. That was complicated. Yeah. And he was great.

[Monica Padman]

He was perfect, but yeah, he was.

[Dax Shepard]

Almost more Kendall Kumar than Kendrick Lamar. No, don't say that. No.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, my God. No.

[Dax Shepard]

Sam Jackson's like the original Kendrick Lamar. Well, I'm sure that's why he was there.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. He, of course, is iconic, but they.

[Dax Shepard]

Have the same body, vibe, and spirit.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, yeah, but the.

[Dax Shepard]

The.

[Monica Padman]

Just the message.

[Dax Shepard]

No tap dancing.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. We're not playing this Game. Yeah. That was great. Serena.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

I didn't. You didn't see that? You have to rewatch Serena Williams.

[Dax Shepard]

She sang.

[Monica Padman]

She came out and was Crip dancing.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, I didn't see that.

[Monica Padman]

You got you.

[Dax Shepard]

I thought you were saying the female singer was Serena.

[Monica Padman]

No, that's. She's huge.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, I don't think. I think you got close, but I. I don't think it's.

[Monica Padman]

I know what I'm talking about.

[Dax Shepard]

You do know. You know more than I do for sure. I didn't see Serena crib.

[Monica Padman]

You definitely need to rewatch. It's.

[Dax Shepard]

I had it very loud, and I got. I got goosebumps. Many times.

[Monica Padman]

Several times when it's the American flag and he's standing in the middle of it and they're all. All of the dancers in the arrangement are black.

[Dax Shepard]

Uhhuh.

[Monica Padman]

Just so powerful.

[Dax Shepard]

Really powerful.

[Monica Padman]

It really was. I love him. I. He. I want him to come on this show so badly.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes, Me too. I had to get brought up to speed by Tim Love.

[Monica Padman]

About the beef.

[Dax Shepard]

About the beef.

[Monica Padman]

I. I try. I told you a little bit about the beef.

[Dax Shepard]

I know about the pedophile part.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I know about the lawsuits.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I didn't know that he called Drake a colonizer. I didn't know that whole aspect in the song. Yeah, yeah. And that Drake had called him, accused him of making slave music. Did you know that part?

[Monica Padman]

No, but I know Drake. So I guess there was this huge, like.

[Dax Shepard]

And Drake is rich.

[Monica Padman]

I heard Drake is rich.

[Dax Shepard]

Drake was, like, grew up rich. I heard.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, yeah. He's from Canada, you know. You know, Drake is.

[Dax Shepard]

I have zero opinion on Drake. I just want to say that out loud. I have zero feelings.

[Monica Padman]

I have zero feelings about Drake. Except apparently. And there's a daily on this.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, there is. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Drake likes these beefs. Like, he starts them. It's part of.

[Dax Shepard]

They're good for business.

[Monica Padman]

Sure.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But this one really got out from the end, huh? And Kendrick isn't really ever the type to get involved in these types of things. He's kind of like. Which Drake also calls out. I think you're. So a few beefs. Kendrick.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. He's also in a beef with Andrew Schultz. Oh, did you not see that?

[Monica Padman]

Oh, interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

And Andrew did not at all kowtow. He just went straight to war with them.

[Monica Padman]

What is that?

[Dax Shepard]

You'll. We'll have to watch all the videos. He has a line about don't let a white comedian make fun of our women or something. And then so and it's believed that he's referencing Andrew. And Andrew then comes out and says he's just not terribly worried about Kendrick. And. Oh, you. Then he. His. His attack back is like, oh, here's the dude you've supported who have raped women and who have beaten women. I don't think I'm your dude. So that was his pushback. And yeah. Got saucy. Well, I thought, boy, Andrew, you're pissing off.

[Monica Padman]

That's so stupid.

[Dax Shepard]

A very, very die hard fan base. But yeah, he's got at least those two going. But back to Drake.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, okay. But in the hip hop world. Yeah, he doesn't really do this because he kind of is. Drake says it too. Like you put your. You think you're so great. You think you're this like, poet. Yeah, yeah. Which is.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Any who. Drake is rich and very popular and like, you know, blends. He's not. Straight up. Straight up hip.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, right, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

More poppy mixing. Exactly.

[Dax Shepard]

Club music.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. So people think he's a phony.

[Dax Shepard]

I found myself with that tension of loving a good fuck you song and then knowing the better part of myself doesn't like this.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, me too. But I. In this case, I don't.

[Dax Shepard]

You went for it. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm getting charged up by this.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

And obviously that's not my aim in life is to like be pumped when someone else is telling another person to off me either, effectively.

[Monica Padman]

Well, the pro. Okay, I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

Unless there's a huge class distinction, of course, then I do enjoy it. But regardless.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I am with you. I don't like enjoy a beef diss track or a beef. I've never. I've never been into a beef before.

[Dax Shepard]

Right. This is your first beef.

[Monica Padman]

This is my first. My first foray into the world of beefs. But now that I listen to the Daily and I know how many. So it was like this big weekend, I guess, where they were like back and forth. They were. They kept putting out songs in retaliation to one another. That's the end. In the audience after the halftime show, it says game over.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

Because he won.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

And you know, he did win that song that his diss track won five Grammys.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

Like, sorry, I feel bad. I actually do feel kind of bad for Drake. But he did start it.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't even know he started it.

[Monica Padman]

According to the Daily.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, all right. I'm nervous. I don't want to be on either side of a.

[Monica Padman]

Why?

[Dax Shepard]

Because I don't.

[Walton Goggins]

I don't ever want To.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't want to join a team when the half the other people hate the team. I don't. I don't want to be on a team that's hated by half of people. It's not my desire in life. I know if I care deeply about this feud between Drake and Kendrick. Yeah, I might. But I. I don't care at all. These are both very rich, talented dudes. I don't think there's an oppressed vers.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I think. Yeah. I mean, they did come from very different backgrounds. Like, I don't. It'd be like, you who came from a certain background, you probably feel like you have more of an entitlement to talk about that and rap.

[Dax Shepard]

Sure.

[Monica Padman]

About that. Than somebody who didn't experience it.

[Dax Shepard]

But again, I don't even know enough about Drake. Is he rapping about the hood?

[Monica Padman]

He raps about bling.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Oh. Since we're talking about pop culture, which we rarely do, and I tend to, for whatever reason, be allergic to. Did you know the Kanye thing?

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Dax Shepard]

So step one was arriving at the Grammys uninvited with the wife who was then naked. Okay. That was event number one. And then he had a. He paid for his own super bowl commercial. Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Which directed people to go to his dot com. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And if you went to yeezy.com, there was a single item for sale, and it was a shirt with a swastika to cut it.

[Monica Padman]

Yep.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, this is. Is absolutely mad as conceivable. Dying to know is so bad. I'm dying to hear his thought process. I'm just dying to understand how he got himself to a point where he paid for a Super Bowl.

[Monica Padman]

It's Jewish people. He says it. It's not. We don't have to read through the lines. The fact that that's not illegal. I don't like. I don't. Although now I guess there's talk about the NFL maybe suing him because when he did the commercial that wasn't up. He had real items on his site until the next day he changed it. Yeah. So I guess there is some conversation about him being sued for that, but I. I don't.

[Dax Shepard]

It's what I want to know.

[Monica Padman]

Embarrassing.

[Dax Shepard]

What I want to know, to be clear, is the same thing I wanted to talk to Roseanne about. He knows this is a very damaging move.

[Monica Padman]

I don't know. It's like a. I don't know what it's like.

[Dax Shepard]

Passing a point of no return.

[Monica Padman]

It's been like that, though. He keeps doing Stuff like this.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I mean, they're escalating in severity. He wasn't previously, to my knowledge, selling swastika shirts.

[Monica Padman]

No, but he was, he was saying, open openly. He hates Jewish people.

[Dax Shepard]

And he's like, he's getting close to being a neo Nazi.

[Monica Padman]

Close.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, right.

[Monica Padman]

He's 100.

[Dax Shepard]

He's a black neo Nazi.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, he is.

[Dax Shepard]

Now, how does a rational, at one time, seemingly savvy and rational person end up here other than just the obvious Bipolar.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, he is. He's bipolar. But yes, as I was reading something today, like, that's that for people who are like, well, he's just, he's bipolar. Which he is.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

95% of bipolar people don't, aren't hate filled. They're not using it to hurt people.

[Dax Shepard]

And, and if you found out Hitler was bipolar, you wouldn't go like, oh, that makes sense. Yeah. I have a whole theory I'm not entitled to have about Roseanne, which is, I think the racism aside, it was racist. I ignored acknowledge it. But that's just one of many historic things she has done at the height of her popularity to really alienate everyone and test whether they love her. Yeah. Like the, the famous.

[Monica Padman]

Well, that's you. That, that's you deciding and test what? Like that's you being very introspective and saying you think it's because deep down she's testing whether.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, I think, like when she sang the national anthem, intentionally poorly and annoyingly, and she pissed everyone off, and it's like the patriotism flared up and she's brilliant, so she's too smart to not know that wasn't a good move. So then I wonder, what story is she confirming by doing this thing? Like, well, how could she, as smart as she was, convince herself that I'm going to do this? And I think it's this. You don't believe all these people that love you, really love you, and then your brain comes up with this bizarre test. Test of that. Yeah, to find out, to confirm you're right, basically, that no one really loves you. They love this fake version of you they see on TV or hearing music. I have to believe that's going on with Kanye.

[Monica Padman]

I don't think so.

[Dax Shepard]

I don't think so.

[Monica Padman]

I, I, I appreciate that you really give people. And I don't think you're giving him the benefit of the doubt. But, like, I think, I think a.

[Dax Shepard]

Bunch of things have gone terribly wrong in his life that he's the author of. No question.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, he's, he Creates chaos. And I think you and probably many people feel like there's a empathetic reason behind that.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, you think there's a reason other than that Kanye west was born evil and now we're seeing it and he hit it for 40 years.

[Monica Padman]

Do you think. But you don't think anyone's born evil. And I don't either. But I think people become. I do think there are a. There are people in this world who become irredeemable. They become so, so driven to chaos and destruction and.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. And I'm not making an argument that he should be redeemed.

[Monica Padman]

No. I would hope. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

No, I'm not making an argument that people who have committed crimes should not go sit in prison. But I am working with an assumption that something, something happened to them that now resulted in this. I think there are serial killers and I think there's narcissists and I think there's sociopaths who enjoy and there's, There are sadists who like to hurt things. I, I know those people exist.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

But I think a lot of non mental pathology people do really weird stuff that I'm quite curious why they would ruin their lives this, in this way. Like this is a person who's ruined their life. Oh yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But over and over, like it's not. Keeps doing it. He keeps causing harm.

[Dax Shepard]

Does it seem like a tragedy to you? Because it seems like a tragedy to me.

[Monica Padman]

It seems like a waste to me. But I don't, I don't think of it as a tragedy. I think what he's doing to people, I think causing this kind of fear and instability and across the board, even when he like goes up and steals a thing from Taylor, it's all, it's all is mean, it's bad. I'm also of the belief that a lot of that type specifically thrives off oxygen. And so I don't, like, I don't really want to give him any ever. Like, I think he's disgusting and I, I don't want to talk about him really. I mean this is a fine conversation but you know, everyone's of course like posting about it. And there was another shirt made in retaliation, which I think is awesome. That is what he wants. He wants chaos, he wants a reaction. He wants people to be scared and be angry. And I'm, I don't want to play.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

Like, bye. Just go away.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. Do you think he's sold any?

[Monica Padman]

I don't know. Well, it's gone now.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, it is.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Shopify took it to act.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. Let's just say it's a historic public meltdown for the ages. I mean, this is one of the most bizarre things, but.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, but it's. It's not that bizarre because it's been such a long. He's been escalating to this for so long.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, there was a period where he was just writing incredible music a long time. Came up with some of the greatest Jay Z songs with him. Like there was some period where he was just a volcano of incredible creativity.

[Monica Padman]

He was. But we also don't know who he was was back then. Like.

[Dax Shepard]

No. When I watched the doc about him before he got really crazy, what I saw is a guy who had some very deep social challenges his whole life. I think he's been very atypical as a person.

[Monica Padman]

I think so too.

[Dax Shepard]

You know what part of the problem is, I can admit I so can't relate to hating Jewish people. It seems like the dumbest thing to me.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And so it's so cuckoo that I wonder, how does one get themselves there?

[Monica Padman]

I hear you. And that's me too. I'm like, I don't even understand this.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

But 6 million of them were killed because someone didn't like them.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

One person who created such a massive revolution that like 6 million of them were killed. So it's. It sounds cuckoo.

[Dax Shepard]

And then that is also a huge history of it. Even before they killed them, they weren't allowed to participate in most of the economy.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

I think, like, they've been very poorly treated for hundreds and hundreds of years.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. There's an underestimation of making a group the scapegoat of a problem.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And how really bad that can get.

[Dax Shepard]

When you have poor white people living in the same city with poor black people and poor Latinos. I. We see the lack of resources and the competition that's definitely going to file on to these in group. It's kind of quite predictable. Like, it's a bunch of people in scarcity blaming one another for their scarcity. Makes a lot of sense. I'm not even sure where you're interacting in that circle. Like, you're not thinking Jewish people have taken your jobs. You're not thinking like all these other things that perpetuate that kind of inner city. Poor stereotyping and racism.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

It's just like they're not going to jail a lot. There's nothing. I'm not even sure they're.

[Monica Padman]

You know, they control the media. They There's. There's narratives. I mean, they're ridiculous, but there are narratives that get built about. That's why I'm so allergic to any stereotype, whether it's good or bad. Because you don't know what the good ones. No, because it's a. I like the good. As soon as you start doing massive generalizations.

[Dax Shepard]

Indians have really great hair.

[Monica Padman]

No, only me.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's just. It's. It is. I've. I mean, I've been not really paying on purpose too much attention to what has been going on in the world. It does feel a little irresponsible. Like I'm trying to figure out the line of complete ignoring and keeping my sanity. Yeah, I haven't really found it yet, so I'm. I'm sort of not partaking at all. But, yeah, things make your way to you, and. And it is scary. I mean, it's just. Well, that. And then to circle back to a little bit is. Oh, my God, it's so crazy. He put this T shirt up. It's not that crazy because permission has been granted by our most elite in charge to say whatever the you want to say. To do whatever the you want to do. You. Elon is doing Hail Hitler. That was at our United States inauguration. So, you know, I'm just saying, like, it's not out of nowhere that someone crazy like that is. Is going to feel like, well, now is the time I can put my T shirt up. Okay. Well, speaking of stereotypes.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Walton.

[Dax Shepard]

Walton Goggins.

[Monica Padman]

Shout out to Georgia Southern. A school nearby where I grew up.

[Dax Shepard]

How far? 60 miles.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, you know, I don't know about.

[Dax Shepard]

Miles further because Atlanta is really in the middle. So if it's called Southern, I got it. It's got to be closer to Florida.

[Monica Padman]

No, no, no. It's in.

[Dax Shepard]

It's in the Georgia. The Atlanta area.

[Monica Padman]

Well, it's in Georgia.

[Dax Shepard]

Right, but is it in southern Georgia?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Closer to Florida, I guess.

[Dax Shepard]

I would imagine.

[Monica Padman]

I guess I've never thought of it as closer to Florida, but.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, to the south of you.

[Monica Padman]

Let's find out how far it is from Atlanta. Parents house.

[Dax Shepard]

Great.

[Monica Padman]

I'm gonna use maps for that.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, good.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. It's 3 hours and 28 minutes.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so for more than 60 miles. 150. 160.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it's 231 miles.

[Walton Goggins]

Whoa.

[Dax Shepard]

That's very far from my parents. From your parents. So it must really be on that border.

[Monica Padman]

It's. It's here, it's here. And that's Savannah on the coast there.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so. So it's a bit east and south from Atlanta, but, yeah, it's pretty close to Jacksonville. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Not too far.

[Dax Shepard]

Not too bad.

[Monica Padman]

Not too far.

[Dax Shepard]

You could be there for a lunch appointment if you had to.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, wow.

[Dax Shepard]

Get some fresh oranges.

[Monica Padman]

I had a lot of friends who went there.

[Dax Shepard]

Did you guys. You guys would drive to Disney World, obviously, right? You were very close.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we would. Eight hours.

[Dax Shepard]

Eight hours. Okay. The speed your father drove, it was eight hours.

[Monica Padman]

Let me put it in Disney World. Six hours, 55 minutes.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

472 miles.

[Walton Goggins]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

I'm sure you guys had to stop. I know what it's like.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, we had to stop.

[Dax Shepard]

We couldn't go more than 60 damn miles this summer in Europe.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Tortuga. Yes. Spanish word for turtle.

[Dax Shepard]

What's a great word.

[Monica Padman]

It is.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

His earliest memories are in Decatur. My mom worked at Decatur Federal Bank. That was one of her first jobs.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay. How long she serve? I thank her for her service, too.

[Monica Padman]

Me too. I don't know.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. An annulment.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. How does an annulment work?

[Monica Padman]

Okay. An annulment is a legal ruling that ends a marriage by declaring it invalid. It makes the marriage null and void as if it never happened. Here are the criteria. Fraud if one spouse tricked the other into marriage.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Coercion if one spouse was forced into the marriage.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Mental incapacity. That's really bad.

[Dax Shepard]

Hard to prove.

[Monica Padman]

Ding, ding, ding. Kanye's wife.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

They could get an annulment if one spouse was not mentally capable of marrying. Physical inability if one spouse is unable to constantly the marriage.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

This is interesting.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You were against this, and I was for this.

[Monica Padman]

I know. I'm against it.

[Dax Shepard]

Because you can't. If someone marries you.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And they can't perform sex with you. You needed to say that ahead of time. Because you can't just surprise someone and say, guess what? Sex won't be a part of this marriage. You can go, well, then that's obviously the understanding was there would be sex.

[Monica Padman]

But what if you are married, you're having sex.

[Dax Shepard]

Ye. And then it's been consummated.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. It has been consummated.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, is consummate just the first time?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, so it's not like then in two months you get married.

[Dax Shepard]

In a year later, you still haven't had sex.

[Monica Padman]

Well, what if you have sex and then you stop being able to. Some men have that issue.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

So then can you annul after, like, a year?

[Dax Shepard]

It Sounds like consummated is a very operative word. Okay, yeah. So it sounds like never had sex.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, that's fair.

[Dax Shepard]

You need to tell someone up front about that.

[Monica Padman]

What if you don't know? What if you've had sex with other people and then for some reason with this person you just can't.

[Dax Shepard]

You should get your marriage an old and find a partner you can have sex with. That's my suggestion there for both parties.

[Monica Padman]

What about if fraud?

[Dax Shepard]

There was fraud. Fraud was listed in the divorce in the annulment with Ken, Danny Chesney, Renee Zellweger and Renee Zellweger.

[Monica Padman]

But what happened?

[Dax Shepard]

I know that's the great curiosity. What was fraudulent about what he was promising or her? I think she cited fraud. Oh, if memory serves me. Okay, this has been a very gossipy extra. Extra. Inside Hollywood edition. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Inside incest. If the marriage between people who are too closely related by blood. I agree with that one.

[Dax Shepard]

Cousins though.

[Monica Padman]

I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

Wait, you don't think cousins can get married?

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, you don't? That one's very loosey goosey.

[Walton Goggins]

What?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, yeah, we had an expert on that. Had a whole chapter about incest and has gone through the world and it's very rare for a culture to have forbid cousins to get married. It's very common every. Everywhere.

[Monica Padman]

No cousins. You mean like second and third and fourth?

[Dax Shepard]

I don't want to marry any of my cousins.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

But I can also imagine never even meeting your cousin.

[Monica Padman]

I haven't met some of mine, but I don't want to marry them.

[Dax Shepard]

What if you met them in there? You meet them for the first time at 37.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

And they're gorgeous.

[Monica Padman]

Great.

[Dax Shepard]

Let's get married.

[Monica Padman]

Great. Meet me at the chapel.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

No, that's. So this is a Jonathan I. Cyclops is.

[Dax Shepard]

No. So that's a little exact exaggerated. Not between siblings, but it still can.

[Monica Padman]

When it's too close, it's not good. Yeah, but that's science.

[Dax Shepard]

This was a part of the.

[Monica Padman]

The book you can't remember.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to say it might have been Paul Bloom. The last time I read his thing. I think it's. It's been a little exaggerated the genetic risk of cousins. I'm not. I don't want to be with my cousins. But I don't. I don't think I care if other cousins are together.

[Monica Padman]

Really?

[Dax Shepard]

I don't think I do. I have to make myself care. I don't.

[Monica Padman]

I guess. I guess people can do what they want.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean it's very common throughout the world.

[Monica Padman]

As you.

[Dax Shepard]

Someone's preferred.

[Monica Padman]

No, it's.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. A lot of places it's preferred.

[Monica Padman]

No, it's not. Okay. Bigamy. If one spouse was already married to someone else. Feels fair. Bigamy is the only one. One we can come together on, you and I. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Whoa.

[Monica Padman]

No. Mental incapacity. Right. And physical.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. We don't. And coercion.

[Monica Padman]

Coercion.

[Dax Shepard]

And what one. Don't we. It's just consummation.

[Monica Padman]

Incest. Well, consummation, because. Oh, consummation is physical. Yeah, I know. I'm on the fence about that one.

[Dax Shepard]

I can't believe you're on the fence about that. Why get married? Be friends.

[Monica Padman]

What if you're in. Because love is not just. Love is more than sex and friends.

[Dax Shepard]

No, sexual love is romantic. Romantic love. And you get married, and then you have friendships that are loving and supportive. You could be roommates. That's great. But entering into the romantic bond of marriage with no attraction to the person or interests in it, being sexual with them, I think is a deal breaker. That's a total deal breaker. Now, hold on. I want to be very clear. If you're asexual, I honor that. And you said to the person, I'm asexual. I don't ever want to. Want to have sex.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Great. And that person's like, cool. I don't either. Go crazy.

[Monica Padman]

Right. But.

[Dax Shepard]

No, but you really need to declare that. That can't be a surprise.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, I want to pivot this a little bit. You put sexual love and romantic love in the same bucket. You. You call that the same for you? Those are synonymous?

[Dax Shepard]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

That's interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh, is it?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

You think that's.

[Monica Padman]

I think they're a three bucket. I think there's sexual attraction.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Romantic love and then friendship love.

[Dax Shepard]

Why would romantic love be different than the sexual. Because who would you be romantically in love with that you didn't want to have sex with? You would just be in love with them as a friend.

[Walton Goggins]

No.

[Monica Padman]

Like, I think maybe this is gendered, but I think for a lot of women. Women. Not me, because I'm not married. But I could see this. I could see over time being less sexually. I mean, this happens in every marriage.

[Dax Shepard]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

You become, like, less sexually attracted to your married marriage partner.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

But you're still romantically in love with them. You love them in a way you don't love your friends.

[Dax Shepard]

Yes. But you had a sexual relationship that had. Has slowed down, as opposed to you were never intending to have a sexual relationship, and sex was never going to be part of this.

[Monica Padman]

I guess I'm just saying, to me, those are. They're three buckets. They're not like loving someone romantically or loving a partner apart from sex is a different kind of love and care and. And then a love for a friend for me, for. You know. This is kind of interesting.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I think I'm. Either I want a romantic love with a woman or I want a friendship love with them. There's no third bucket for me. And considering love, l. Sure there's people I would love to have sex with that I would not want to hang out with, which is kind of gendered, generally speaking. But. Yeah, there's no one that I would want a romantic relationship with that I wouldn't want to have sex with. Wouldn't happen.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

Then they would just be a friend and I wouldn't marry them. Yeah. You want to marry a friend.

[Monica Padman]

No.

[Dax Shepard]

And have no sex.

[Monica Padman]

No, I know.

[Dax Shepard]

And not justify an annulment if they ask for it.

[Monica Padman]

Not say that. I didn't say that. I just, I. I just think romantic love is different than sexual. Sexual attraction. Obviously you want both in your. In your husband.

[Dax Shepard]

Like, romantic love is wanting to kiss the person's lips.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. That's fun. Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That's the same thing as sexual attraction. But those aren't different things to me.

[Monica Padman]

But over time, like there's no one.

[Dax Shepard]

I want to kiss really bad, but then don't want to have sex with if I want to kiss them and I love them.

[Monica Padman]

But, but like over, over time in the m. Not to get too personal, but like every time you kiss Kristen, you want to have sex with her? Like, no. Like, that's a. That it's.

[Dax Shepard]

No. But I would like to have sex with Kristen.

[Monica Padman]

Well, yeah. Yeah. Right.

[Dax Shepard]

And if I didn't want to have sex with her, that would be an issue.

[Monica Padman]

But if you didn't want to have sex, let's say like now, after so many years. Yeah. You stopped really wanting to have sex with her, but you still love her romantically in a way that is different than how you love.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. I just, I think comparing something 20 years out and well, that's week one. No one's getting a marriage annulled after 20 years. I'm talking. You marry someone is revealed to you they have no intention to have a sexual relationship with you. I think you're definitely entitled to get out of that marriage.

[Monica Padman]

No problem. Yeah, I mean, I guess I, I agree.

[Dax Shepard]

It's false advertisement.

[Monica Padman]

Well, also, it's on. Why haven't you why? Why haven't you asked about their sexual appetites before you married them?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, I think you have said, I can't wait to be married. I can't wait for our first night. I can't.

[Monica Padman]

I'm sure. Fraud.

[Dax Shepard]

And then the person didn't go. There's not gonna be a first night. Just so you know. Because I don't want to have sex with you because I'm not romantically attracted.

[Monica Padman]

What if they want to really bad, but they just can't?

[Dax Shepard]

Meaning they can get an erection.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Again, if you are not able to ever get an erection and have sex with your wife, then I think your wife's entitled someone who can. I am sorry. It's already a bummer for you. It shouldn't also be a bummer for that person.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. What if a couple was waiting to have sex until they got married?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And then they both were really horny. He could get it up.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

He could get it in.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And. But then on the night of the wedding, his dick gets cut off by a stranger. Someone comes, a robber comes in and he starts attacking and the robber cuts his dick off and leaves.

[Dax Shepard]

It's still not fraud because you didn't false advertise.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Dax Shepard]

You just. Someone cut your dick off.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That per. Someone cuts my dick off. I'm still going to put a lot of energy into making sure Kristen's still having lots of sexual experiences.

[Monica Padman]

But not sexual intercourse with my penis.

[Dax Shepard]

No.

[Monica Padman]

Cuz it's consummate.

[Dax Shepard]

It's gone.

[Monica Padman]

That's called consummate.

[Dax Shepard]

Okay, so it's on the actual day of the wedding. Yeah. I mean that's quite complicated. And I don't know if we have a single case of that ever happening.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, well.

[Dax Shepard]

But if that happened, that would. Would be up to the gal to decide if she wanted to never have sex the rest of her life.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Or if she decided she does want to have sex, then what arrangement could they work out where she could still have sex?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

They could still be married.

[Monica Padman]

I think most men would allow her to.

[Dax Shepard]

No, most men are very jealous. Terrified.

[Monica Padman]

That's the thing. They would not allow her to go have sex.

[Dax Shepard]

I would for sure. I would almost insist on it. I would. She probably might even want to stop. Yeah, I know. It would probably be a thing.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

Like you can. I can't go your whole life. Life. It's not your fault that my dick got cut off at the ceremony.

[Monica Padman]

Right?

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Little did you know she hired that robber.

[Dax Shepard]

Oh my God. Because she was asexual. The whole time.

[Monica Padman]

All right, that's it.

[Dax Shepard]

But again, someone asexual is going to be upset. I'm not judging you. I'm not talking about you. Two asexual people want to get married and have a non sex marriage.

[Monica Padman]

That's cool. Or an asexual person with the sexual person. If that sexual person decides it's fine.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, good luck to them.

[Monica Padman]

That's up to them. Everyone gets to make their own.

[Dax Shepard]

But everyone's got to be honest.

[Monica Padman]

Unless it's incest.

[Dax Shepard]

Then you got to just got to be honest.

[Monica Padman]

Everyone has to be honest. Yeah, yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

If you're not honest, I think you're a bad. You should be able to get out of that.

[Monica Padman]

Sure, I understand that. I also just think it's stupid. Like annulment to me isn't less than a divorce. Just get a divorce.

[Dax Shepard]

Well, but it is in that there's no splitting of communal property. There's no. It just never happened. There's no, no bunch of legal fees. There's no.

[Monica Padman]

But it says the marriage records remain on file.

[Dax Shepard]

Yeah, but you no longer have to say I was married in divorce. Because you weren't.

[Monica Padman]

Now that to me is fraudulent. If I married someone and then later and I found out that they had an annulment, they didn't tell me.

[Dax Shepard]

All I'm saying is you're not a divorce. Say who cares?

[Monica Padman]

To me it does the same thing if I marry a divorce.

[Dax Shepard]

I mean, yeah, someone should tell somebody if they had an annulment, but I definitely see why. If someone coerced you into wedding, you shouldn't have to go get a divorce and have that be your ex husband and all these things. No, I think it should be like it never happened.

[Monica Padman]

Interesting. You're very religious.

[Dax Shepard]

I am very. In his name we pray under his eye.

[Monica Padman]

Under his eye. All right.

[Dax Shepard]

That was it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Dax Shepard]

That's okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Dax Shepard]

God, I don't want you to get an annulment. But it's very fun.

[Monica Padman]

Why?

[Dax Shepard]

Well, just because we just talked about it and there's. I wonder, you know, like what avenue.

[Monica Padman]

I don't have to go through any of these.

[Dax Shepard]

What avenue you going to pursue that is so meaningful. You have a. You have a menu of options. Like I want this annulled. Which one is.

[Monica Padman]

Let's hope it's not incest.

[Dax Shepard]

H.

[Monica Padman]

So sad.

[Dax Shepard]

All right, Love you.

[Monica Padman]

Love you.

[Dax Shepard]

Foreignchair expert on the wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.