Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Episode Summary: Susan Morrison on Lorne Michaels
Podcast Information:
- Title: Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
- Host: Dax Shepard
- Guest: Susan Morrison
- Episode Title: Susan Morrison (on Lorne Michaels)
- Release Date: April 30, 2025
Introduction and Guest Background
In this episode, host Dax Shepard engages in an insightful conversation with Susan Morrison, the articles editor at The New Yorker. Susan discusses her latest book, Lorne: The Man Who Invented Saturday Night Live, offering a deep dive into the life and legacy of Lorne Michaels, the iconic creator of Saturday Night Live (SNL).
Notable Quote:
- Susan Morrison: "It is of SNL and of Lorne Michaels and we get all these like fun stories and it's just cool. And he's an institution." [00:29]
Susan Morrison’s Journey in Journalism
Susan elaborates on her career trajectory, highlighting her early work with Lorne Michaels on The New Show, a short-lived primetime variety show in the 1980s. This experience laid the foundation for her future endeavors in journalism, particularly her role in founding Spy Magazine, a satirical publication that critiqued the media landscape of the 1980s.
Notable Quote:
- Susan Morrison: "Spy magazine was kind of modeled on Private Eye, the British Satiric weekly. ... We reported Trump's bankruptcies. We went after the Times and we had a column on CAA and Mike Ovitz." [08:06]
Insights into Lorne Michaels and SNL
The conversation delves into Lorne Michaels' enduring influence on comedy and television. Susan discusses Michaels' unique management style, his emphasis on resilience and adaptability, and how his upbringing and personal experiences shaped his approach to producing SNL. She draws parallels between Michaels and other long-standing institutions like The New Yorker, emphasizing their cultural significance in New York.
Notable Quotes:
- Susan Morrison: "When Harold Ross started the magazine 100 years ago, he called it the Comic Weekly. ... She really wanted to enliven it." [11:08]
- Monica Padman: "He makes sure he takes a lot of time off in swanky locales. ... He likes to treat them just like a regular room temperature kind of conversation." [20:10]
The Evolution of SNL Under Michaels
Susan provides a comprehensive overview of the evolution of SNL, detailing the challenges Michaels faced in the early years, including high turnover and the pressures of maintaining relevancy. She discusses pivotal moments, such as the departure of key cast members like Chevy Chase and Bill Murray, and how Michaels adapted by cultivating new talent like Dana Carvey and Phil Hartman.
Notable Quote:
- Susan Morrison: "He realized that he wasn't so sad when he came back. ... But the show, it wasn't right in that year, but over the coming years, he brought in some financial people who helped him claw back some of the distribution rights." [24:03]
Michaels' Philosophy on Comedy and Management
A significant portion of the discussion centers on Michaels' philosophy regarding comedy and the operational aspects of running a live show. Susan highlights Michaels' preference for maintaining control over the creative process, his aversion to "sweaty" comedy (overly forced humor), and his commitment to creating an environment that fosters creativity while ensuring the well-being of his team.
Notable Quotes:
- Monica Padman: "He likes to remind people that comedy is an entertainment. ... Fred Astaire Never grunted while he danced." [21:14]
- Susan Morrison: "He never had that [workaholic] ... He's always made the show's schedule correspond to the vacation schedule of New York private schools." [19:18]
Balancing Creativity and Structure
Susan discusses the delicate balance Michaels maintains between allowing creative freedom and enforcing strict organizational structures to keep the show running smoothly. She explains how this balance contributed to SNL's longevity and ability to stay fresh over five decades.
Notable Quote:
- Monica Padman: "He always says, we don't go on because we're ready. We go on because it's 11:30." [37:22]
Handling Controversies and Adaptations
The conversation touches upon Michaels' handling of various controversies and his adaptability in the face of changing cultural landscapes. Susan recounts how Michaels navigated the show's transition periods and his strategies for keeping SNL relevant, such as integrating improv elements and responding to audience reactions in real-time.
Notable Quote:
- Monica Padman: "He realized, okay, we're just gonna roll over. ... People move on. Keeps the rookie bench full." [56:11]
Impact and Legacy
Susan emphasizes the profound impact Michaels has had on generations of comedians and the broader entertainment industry. She credits Michaels with nurturing talents who have gone on to become influential figures in comedy and film, underscoring his role as a pivotal mentor and gatekeeper in the industry.
Notable Quotes:
- Monica Padman: "Conan appeared in the Five Timers a couple of seasons ago. ... They have this kind of a cult favorite way of doing it." [55:22]
- Susan Morrison: "He never wanted the executive producer credit and that he wasn't going to stick his neck out now. ... I think this created a feeling of confusion and frostiness." [53:09]
Conclusion and Book Endorsement
Towards the end of the episode, Dax expresses his admiration for Susan’s book, praising its depth and engaging narrative style. Susan reflects on the challenges of documenting such a significant figure as Michaels and the meticulous research involved in capturing his multifaceted personality and career.
Notable Quote:
- Dax Shepard: "I love the book. I hope you take this as a compliment. It reads like a New Yorker article." [74:34]
- Susan Morrison: "He never wanted a book inflicted upon him. ... That's something he would have preferred to just sidestep this whole thing." [73:10]
Key Takeaways
- Lorne Michaels' Influence: Michaels is portrayed as a visionary behind SNL, with his leadership and creative strategies being central to the show's enduring success.
- Susan Morrison’s Expertise: Morrison provides an in-depth analysis of Michaels’ career, drawing from her extensive journalistic background and personal interactions.
- Comedy Philosophy: The episode explores Michaels' comedic principles, emphasizing authenticity, audience engagement, and the importance of live performance in SNL.
- Adaptability and Resilience: Michaels' ability to adapt to changing times and manage creative teams effectively is highlighted as a cornerstone of SNL’s longevity.
Notable Moments
- Early Career Reflections: Morrison discusses her initial work with Michaels during The New Show and how it influenced her subsequent career in journalism. [07:18]
- Spy Magazine's Satirical Edge: Insights into Spy Magazine’s role in satirizing the 1980s media landscape and its impact on Morrison’s career. [08:06]
- Michaels' Management Style: Detailed anecdotes about Michaels’ interactions with cast members and his hands-off yet supportive approach to management. [17:01]
- Handling Show Transitions: Morrison recounts Michaels’ strategies during critical periods, such as the transition after the departure of major cast members. [56:11]
Quotes with Timestamps
- Susan Morrison on Michaels as an Institution: "It is of SNL and of Lorne Michaels and we get all these like fun stories and it's just cool. And he's an institution." [00:29]
- Monica Padman on Michaels' Work Philosophy: "He likes to remind people that comedy is an entertainment. And he doesn't have a lot of patience for people who want to do some kind of dark Brechtian black box and sometimes do it in Sunshine." [21:14]
- Susan Morrison on Michaels' Legacy: "He didn't want to be an EP of the Tonight Show the way he was over Conan's late night...he thought this would be a good book." [15:50]
- Dax Shepard Praising the Book: "I love the book. I hope you take this as a compliment. It reads like a New Yorker article. It's so fast moving and every sentence is just packed with all this rich detail." [74:34]
Conclusion: This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of Lorne Michaels' pivotal role in shaping American comedy through Saturday Night Live. Susan Morrison’s insights, backed by her journalistic acumen, provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of Michaels' management style, comedic philosophy, and the enduring legacy of SNL. Whether you’re a longtime fan or new to the show's history, this conversation sheds light on the intricate dynamics that have kept SNL relevant for over five decades.
Disclaimer: The timestamps provided correspond to the transcript segments and are intended to enhance the summary's accuracy. For a complete experience, listening to the full episode is recommended.