Why So Much Violence in This Country?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: Why So Much Violence in This Country?

Date: June 3, 2026
Guests: Noah Rothman (Senior Writer, National Review; Author: Blood in Progress: A Century of Left Wing Violence in America)

Episode Overview

This episode centers on a deep discussion with Noah Rothman about his latest book, Blood in Progress: A Century of Left Wing Violence in America. Rothman explores the cyclical nature, media treatment, and societal impact of political violence—especially violence from the political left—throughout American history and in contemporary times. The hosts and Rothman also touch on the dangers of asymmetrical outrage, generational shifts in attitudes toward violence, group vs. individual threats, and briefly pivot to pressing international issues involving Iran and Russia.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Asymmetry in Media and Societal Response to Political Violence

[01:42–04:53]

• Distinct Reactions: Rothman stresses how right-wing political violence receives solemn, lengthy national treatment, while left-wing violence is downplayed or “contextualized” as a response to social problems.
  • “If there is right wing violence, we have a long, solemn faced national discussion ... if there's left wing violence, it becomes ‘Well, he understands ... an expression of people's discontent with health care or what have you.’ No long discussion.” — Armstrong (04:53)
• Taboo and Deflection: He argues that denial and avoidance of left-wing violence is driven less by concern for accuracy, and more by a desire within progressive or institutional circles to avoid confronting the problem.
• Reciprocal Cycle: The unwillingness to confront left-wing violence can fuel further violence from both sides—an escalating feedback loop.

2. Suppressed History of Left-Wing Political Violence

[02:21–04:53]

• Rothman claims that episodes of left-wing violence have often been “forgotten” or actively suppressed in mainstream accounts.
  • “It’s not an obscure history, it’s a suppressed history. And my goal ... is to remove the omerta ... de-stigmatize the notion that we can talk about left-wing violence with the authority and clarity that it deserves.” — Noah Rothman (04:13)
• The book covers a century’s worth of waves: 1910s, 1920s, 1970s, 1980s, 2010s, and 2020s.
• Suggests ignoring half the picture makes solving the problem impossible.

3. Case Studies: Double Standards and Public Reactions

[05:17–06:07]

• Getty recounts seeing Trump supporters physically attacked and the lack of news coverage or outrage.
• Rothman references mixed press reactions to violence against both Trump protesters and supporters during the 2016 campaign, and how left-wing violence is frequently excused or rationalized by highlighting “environmental conditions.”

Memorable Quotes:

• Getty: “It got zero news coverage, and nobody was bothered by it. And it was like, holy crap, when did political violence become okay? Since then, I've been highly disturbed.” (05:46)

4. Rationalization, Justification, and Celebration of Political Violence

[06:07–08:48, 23:31–25:53]

• Rothman argues progressive leaders frequently offer condemnations followed by context meant to justify or excuse left-wing violence.
  • “They condemn the murder, but then say but ... You have to understand the health care system is broken.” — Rothman (07:00)
• This rationale, Rothman says, is core to the revolutionary mindset: violence becomes a means to catalyze the masses and reset the system.
• He points to performative ghoulishness and growing willingness among youth to celebrate or rationalize violence.
  • “Anti Semitism is one [taboo] and violence is another. The celebration of bloodshed for its own sake is another ... But that performative ghoulishness ... is designed to beget the kind of violent outcomes that are often encouraged tacitly, even if they don't acknowledge it by democratic political officials.” — Rothman (23:51)

5. Socioeconomic Roots: “Affluence and Revolution”

[08:48–12:08]

• Armstrong and Rothman discuss how many perpetrators of left-wing violence, historically and currently, come from affluent, educated backgrounds.
  • Armstrong: “It astounded me that somebody coming from a very pleasant place would turn to revolution. And I've since learned that that's far from uncommon.” (08:56)
  • Rothman: “The profile is that guy, especially the education part ... those who would pursue violence as a vehicle for social change have at least some familiarity with movements that engaged in similar pursuits in history.” (09:52)
• Rothman posits that societal privilege can create a sense of mission or entitlement to enact radical change through any means.

6. Reliability and Subjectivity of Violence Statistics

[13:44–16:17]

• Rothman criticizes attempts to quantify political violence by database, suggesting that definitions are inconsistently applied and often inflate right-wing violence counts through dubious inclusions (e.g., gang violence, vandalism).
  • “Not dueling in databases here. ... If you go into the databases ... you see a lot of stuff that the general public does not perceive to be political violence.” (14:13)
• He states that ideological conformity in academia and activism taints even the study of left-wing extremism, citing a 2021 DHS document acknowledging such bias.

7. Societal Polarization and Dehumanization

[16:17–16:49]

• Armstrong: “Conservatives think progressives are misguided or wrong. Progressives think conservatives are evil, which is obviously a thread that runs ... into the violence.”
• Rothman recommends depoliticizing everyday life and depriving extremists of the “state is against us” narrative.

8. Causes, Manifestations, and Potential Remedies

[16:49–19:04]

• Rothman lays out that there’s no quick or total solution and that acknowledging the reality is the first step.
  • “I don't offer a panacea ... There's been political violence in this country since its founding. ... The biggest problem that I attempt to address with this book is the fact that so few are willing to acknowledge it.” (16:49–18:53)

9. Individual vs. Group Political Violence

[25:53–27:46]

• Discussion shifts to whether lone actors or groups (like Antifa or Proud Boys) are a greater threat.
  • Rothman: “What’s really unnerving to me is group violence, in particular the violence targeting police ... That's sophisticated, that's an assault. That's a small cell terrorist act.” (26:17)
• He draws historical parallels to leftist guerrilla and anarchist violence of prior eras, warning of possible resurgence.

10. Brief Pivot to International Affairs

Iran ([29:00–33:51])

• Rothman is skeptical about progress with Iran, fears U.S. is losing leverage, and points out stakes are not prices at the pump, but regional and nuclear stability.
  • “Iran getting a nuke would be one of the biggest moments in world history ... It's the shape of the region for decades to come.” (32:03)

Russia-Ukraine ([33:51–35:53])

• Rothman sees Putin as desperate and warns the greatest fear is not a nuclear exchange, but a nuclear standoff—potentially the only face-saving play left for Russia.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Media Treatment of Violence:

  • Armstrong: “If there's right wing violence, we have a long, solemn faced national discussion ... if there's left wing violence, it becomes... Well, he understands.” (04:53)

• On Suppressed History:

  • Rothman: “It's not an obscure history, it's a suppressed history.” (04:13)

• On Double-Standard Condemnations:

  • Rothman: “They condemn the murder, but then say but ... That renders everything that came before it dismissible and perfunctory. But you have to understand the health care system is broken.” (07:00)

• On Youth and Political Violence:

  • Rothman: “The celebration of bloodshed for its own sake is another ... But that performative ghoulishness ... is designed to beget the kind of violent outcomes that are often encouraged tacitly, even if they don't acknowledge it.” (23:51)

• On Group Political Violence:

  • Rothman: “That’s a small cell terrorist act. And it’s akin to what we saw in the 1970s and 1980s with the Marxist guerrilla groups ... It's a portent of a possible convulsion, a spasm of organized left wing terroristic violence of the sort that we haven't experienced in this country in 50 years.” (26:39)

• On Possible Solutions:

  • Rothman: “The biggest problem that I attempt to address with this book is the fact that so few are willing to acknowledge it.” (18:53)

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Important Timestamps

• [01:42–04:53] – Initial framing of the book’s thesis; media double-standards.
• [05:17–06:07] – Getty’s personal account of ignored violence against Trump supporters.
• [08:48–12:08] – Socioeconomic factors in revolutionary violence.
• [13:44–16:17] – Discussion of flaws in violence statistics and studies.
• [16:17–19:04] – Societal polarization and attempts at remedies.
• [23:31–25:53] – Performative and generational aspects of the new violence.
• [26:17–27:46] – Sophistication and risk of group, organized violence today.
• [29:00–33:51] – U.S., Iran, and the Middle East: danger of nuclear proliferation.
• [33:51–35:53] – Fears of a Russia/U.S. nuclear standoff over Ukraine.
• [36:01–37:38] – Reflections on the need to broaden the discourse on political violence.

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Concluding Thoughts

Rothman’s central argument is that until Americans are willing to face uncomfortable truths about political violence from all sides—particularly from the left—no real progress can be made toward understanding or preventing it. The book, Blood in Progress, seeks to provide the historical context, data, and stories to start that conversation and challenge prevailing taboos. The episode emphasizes the need for national self-awareness, depoliticization of non-political life, and fair, consistent condemnation of violence.

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Recommended for listeners who want:

• A historical perspective on political violence in America
• Insights into contemporary ideological conflicts
• A critical look at media bias and academic taboo
• Concerns about increasing polarization and radicalization
• Commentary on current affairs in Iran and Russia (final third of the episode)

Transcript

[Noah Rothman]

This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human

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[Noah Rothman]

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[Armstrong]

Noah Rothman is the author of a brand new book entitled Blood in a Century of Left Wing Violence in America. It's Armstrong and Getty Extra Large because

[Noah Rothman]

four hours simply isn't enough. This is Armstrong and Getty Extra Large.

[Armstrong]

What a pleasure this is to talk to Noah Rothman, senior writer with the National Review, author of a number of terrific books through the years and we are big fans of years around here. Mr. Rothman. How are you? Noah?

[Noah Rothman]

Thank you, sir. I'm very well. It's a pleasure to be here.

[Armstrong]

Excellent.

[Getty]

Thanks.

[Armstrong]

So I have dived into the book with great enthusiasm. My compliments. First of all, it's one of those momentum reads. The more I read, the more I was enjoying reading it. And one of the points you made early on in the book. I should just as an aside fan of your work on the National Review podcast, and I remember when you first brought up that you were working on this book, my immediate reaction was, oh my God, there's going to be an avalanche branch of what about Ism about right wing violence. But you made the point early in the book that the way we as media and society react to left wing violence and right wing violence are very, very different. Can we start there?

[Noah Rothman]

Of course, sure. So my book is Blood in a Century of Left Wing Violence in America is an attempt to answer a question that I think we all probably encounter too frequently because we often hear about how the right in America is uniquely violent. The primary threat to the civic Compact and individual life and liberty. We hear about it after an attempted or successful assassination of a right wing figure, an armed assault on an ICE facility or a CBP facility, the mobs that descend almost nightly on places like Portland, Oregon. We hear about it all the time. And there's something of a taboo in there, right? If you're, if you're finger pointing, you're saying no, no, no, you're the violent one. There's a concession there that the public doesn't like political violence, therefore you're imposing this on the other side so that they'll have to defend themselves. But the degree to hear this reflex, this inversion, is reflective, I think, less of a desire to get the facts right and more of an attempt by left of center Americans and institutionalists in venues that happen to have progressive proclivities to avoid looking at the problem, to turn their eyes away. And that's why we have so much violence in this country. It's a reciprocal phenomenon. Those who are inclined towards political violence take inspiration from those who execute attacks on their side and especially to mete out vengeance against their political adversaries who they already perceive to be violent. That often includes the state. Both sides of this equation perceive the state to be on the side of their political enemies. So you're never going to get your hands around this problem if you refuse to acknowledge its contours and scope. And that's what I do. In this book I look not only at the wave of left wing violence that we're experiencing right now, which is a genuine wave of left wing violence. I put together a ton of evidence in Blood in Progress to demonstrate that we are experiencing a classic wave of political terrorism from the left. But I also explore the other waves of political terrorism from the left, all of which have been described by their scholars who study them as forgotten. The 1910s, the 1920s, the 1970s, the 1980s and today, the 2010s and the 2020s. All of this history has some similar features, predictive and prescriptive elements. And I argue that it's not an obscure history, it's a suppressed history. And my goal with Blood in Progress is to remove the omerta, you know, de stigmatize the notion that we can talk about left wing violence with the authority and clarity that it deserves, because otherwise we're never going to get our hands around this problem.

[Armstrong]

I like the way you pointed out that if there is right wing violence, we have a long, solemn faced national discussion about it. Many, many articles and panels and that sort of thing. And if there's agreed completely, we abhor all political violence around here, but if there's left wing violence, it becomes. Well, he understands. And it's an expression of people's discontent with health care or what have you. No long discussion.

[Getty]

Let me give you my best example, Noah. I think you guys talked about this maybe in one of the many podcast interviews I've heard you do. When Trump first started running for president, before it became all controversial, and it was still kind of just fun and a joke, he flew into Sacramento in the big Trump plane. And I took my kids, which in retrospect seems crazy taken. I think they were. They were like 6 and 4 or something like that. I mean, they were little kids. But it was still just kind of fun to go to a Trump rally that was in Sacramento on like a Wednesday night. The next night he's in San Jose, and some Trump people wearing Trump hats got beaten up on the sidewalk, got beaten up in the middle of the day. And it got zero news coverage, and nobody was bothered by it. And it was like, holy crap, when did political violence become okay? Since then, I've been highly disturbed.

[Noah Rothman]

Yeah, I remember writing a piece for Commentary magazine where I was employed at the time in 2016, because I had written a bunch about sharing the apprehension that the national press had over the degree to which the President was inclined to excuse or even give license to people on his side who would react violently to the protesters who were protesting his events, demonstrating against his events, infiltrating his events, and harassing his supporters. I was unnerved by that, but I was just as unnerved by the degree to which Trump supporters were being attacked. Yes, in the streets in Sacramento, as you said, in places like Arizona and Chicago, they shut down a rally that beat up cops, beat them bloody, had the clothes torn from their backs, belt pelted with eggs, et cetera, et cetera. Got no coverage. And throughout the course of the Trump presidency, first Trump presidency, which got much, much worse, and Joe Biden's presidency, I've been unnerved by the degree to which there is not an excuse making exercise necessarily on the part of the left, but certainly an effort to contextualize left wing violence and render it, as you say, an excusable, forgivable response to environmental conditions, many of which are completely subjective in the minds of progressive activists. And you noted, you know, the degree to which you got to understand the violence. A lot of that came in the immediate aftermath of the assassination of CEO UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Where you heard leading lights in the Democratic Party, Alexandria Ocasio, Cortez, Elizabeth Warren, Chris Murphy, Bernie Sanders, all of them condemn the murder, but then say but big pregnant. But that renders everything that came before it dismissible and perfunctory. But you have to understand the health care system is broken in Bernie Sanders case. But you have to understand not just the health care system, but the finance system, the election system, the housing system, the education system, everything is broken. Therefore, what is necessary, a revolutionary social upheaval, something that will reset everything to year zero, where we can get back to the kind of social contract that we know we need. And how do we get there? In the minds of the revolutionary activists throughout the centuries now, it has been that one galvanizing act of violence and bloodshed, human sacrifice, will ignite passions that are otherwise dormant in the public. And they will rise up and join us in our campaign against these oppressive structures, the civilizational oppression that the public is just yearning to slough off themselves. And they only need permission to do so. And we're going to give it to them. This is a violent mindset. This is the violent activist mindset. And it's the sort of thing that is very pervasive on the left, even among political professionals and responsible institutional stewards.

[Armstrong]

And what we're about to talk about, what I'm about to ask about, is not all left wing political violence, Lord knows, but I've been fascinated by what Matt Taib recently called upper class promoting revolution since I was a kid. I grew up in a very pleasant suburb of Chicago where the Harris family that were central to the Patty Hearst kidnapping debacle lived. Their parents lived there. And it astounded me that somebody coming from a very pleasant place, well educated, certainly affluent enough to get by in America, would turn to revolution. And I've since learned that that's far from uncommon. A pretty good common thread from the Sevent violence through at least some current left wing violence, isn't there?

[Noah Rothman]

Oh, my gosh, yes. And we have some very recent evidence of this. The third, not first, not second, third attempt on Donald Trump's life was executed by a man who the press seemed to be confused by because he was erudite, because he was educated, because he came from the same milieu that they come from. CBS host Norah o' Donnell asked the president to opine on the ramblings of a madman who tried to kill him. In years past, the guy's actions would have discredited everything that came before. But no, Norah o' Donnell didn't see much there that was beyond reason. Therefore maybe the president should have to answer why he's not a pedophile, a traitor, a criminal. That's the sort of thing that strikes those of us who are familiar with the history of and the profile that's associated with those who execute violence in the pursuit of positive social change, which is its own sort of disordered thinking, that the profile is that guy, especially the education part. You know, the sociologists, there are sociologists that I quote in this book who just who find that within the context of Islamist terrorism, at least the common thread there is that they share not privation, want and hardship, they have an engineering degree, they come from means, they come from an educated background. And it makes it a little bit of intuitive sense when you think about it, that those who would pursue violence as a vehicle for social change have at least some familiarity with movements that engaged in similar pursuits in history. So it's the sort of thing that is, you can chalk it up to ignorance, but it's an ignorance that's cultivated and licensed and encouraged by people in positions of power and authority in this country who in who scan the horizon for any evidence of right wing violence, as they should and as you say, or treat us to prolonged lectures about our permissiveness when we experience episodes of right wing violence, as we should. But the same cannot be said on the left. There is a huge asymmetry here and as a result I fully expect more right wing political violence because these two things are intertwined. Those who are inclined towards violence again resolve to mete out vendetta against their political adversaries. And if they perceive that the state is no longer concerned with their safety and that of their families, then yeah, vigilantism could become a much more pronounced feature of the American social compact. And that's a big fear of mine, something I'm hoping to stave off with my book.

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[Getty]

so it's so tawdry to get into a compare the left wing scorecard to the right ring scorecard to see who's ahead or behind, depending on how you look at it. But you kind of have to, because the FBI director or a president or the media is going to give you a list of, you know, what percentage of violence is right wing. And I like how you break down some of the crazy things that they put on that side of the ledger to kind of fix the numbers.

[Noah Rothman]

Yeah, well, I'm not, I'm not dueling in databases here. Like I'm not competing in the database world because I think it's a hopelessly subjective enterprise. As you say, there are a bunch of these statistical analyses that purport to conclude that the American right is uniquely violent or at least uniquely murderous. Sometimes there's a distinction there with a difference. But if you go into the databases, depending on which one you're looking at, you see a lot of stuff that the general public does not perceive to be political violence, gang violence, prison violence, intra family violence. Now there's a person who spray paints slurs on the side of a church. Right wing violence. A homeless man who wanders into a hotel and hurls racial epithets at the hotelier insults them. Right wing violence. It's sort of like those databases that are put out by gun control groups that purport to claim like there have been 70 school shootings this year. And you say to yourself, well, I don't remember 70 school shootings. And you look at the data and it shows somebody discharged a firearm adjacent to a school property. Like, that's just not what people think of when they think of political violence. And then most importantly, what I think is a smoking gun. In the first chapter of this book is a document that was prepared for the Department of homeland security in 2021 in which researchers say that the study of violent left wing extremism is shot through with problems. One of them being the fact that people who are allegedly participants in these violent movements are themselves the authors of these studies of those violent movements. And then those who are not are subjected to by their colleagues, intimidation campaigns, social isolation, even the threat of physical retaliation for merely doing the job. It's an. It's ripe for exploration. It is shot through with problems. And it's the sort of thing that a society invested in its own preservation would take very seriously. And it's a wonder why it seems like very few are and there haven't been any real pronounced sustained efforts to grapple with the problem of left wing violence in this country. That's why Blood in Progress, I think, is so necessary. Right.

[Armstrong]

The oversimplified version of what I want to bring up is that conservatives think progressives, conservatives are misguided or wrong. Progressives think conservatives are evil, which is obviously a thread that runs, you know, directly into the violence. Is there anything we can do as a society to, I don't know, some sort of forced interchange so folks of the left can be exposed to more conservative ideals and realize we're not evil, we just see the world more differently than they do?

[Noah Rothman]

Well, I really hope they read my book, first of all. That'd be nice, right? I mean, it's step one. I don't offer a panacea for the problem of political violence in the United States, and I would be suspicious of anyone who does. There's been political violence in this country since its founding. It's a feature of civic life in America. And then, lovely one but one nonetheless. Nevertheless, I do recommend things that we can do on the margins to address this problem. The New Lines Institute, for example, offers some advice to law enforcement officials, for example, to deprive those who are inclined towards violence of the narrative that they often promulgate in which they maintain that the state and the police are on the side of the other side, the political adversaries, and therefore they're valid targets too. I recommend that we restore politics to its proper place. Politics currently knows no rational bounds. It's not about educa, it's not about elections. And legislative affairs and enumerated duties in a constitution. It's about the, you know, commercials you watch and the shows that you watch and the music you listen to and the food you eat and the people you surround yourselves with and your hobbies. And all of it has nothing to do with politics, properly understood. It might be political, but it's. That is a construct and it's immune to remedy from the government, governmental entities by virtue of the constitution, which is desirable. It's good. But if you're so convinced that you have this moral imperative on your hands and society is deaf to it, it's a radicalizing thing. And it can either lead you to withdraw entirely from the political process or resolve to attack the foundations of this holy immoral as enterprise that is deaf to your appeals. So I do have a couple of, you know, ideas for getting our hands around this problem. But the biggest problem that I attempt to address with this book is the fact that so few are willing to acknowledge it. If I've. If all I've achieved with this book is the acknowledgement of the degree to which we're experiencing a pronounced and disproportionate wave of left wing violence, and that is not uncommon in this country, then I will have achieved my objective this

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[Getty]

this

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[Noah Rothman]

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[Getty]

When you've got both sides constantly saying this election will be the last election if the other side wins. I mean, you could justify lots of stuff, you know, if you actually believed that. How do you separate out a crazy person, like completely nuts who happened to latch on to a Political point of view versus, you know, the somewhat sane. How do you do that?

[Noah Rothman]

One of the reasons why I don't tell this story in numbers and statistics is because I wanted to do just that, to dive into the disordered thinking of somebody who believes that an act of political violence will beget positive outcomes and positive social change. That's the sort of thing you can only tell in stories. And so I do tell those stories. And some of the individuals who engage in acts of violence. Look, first of all, a crazy person can have as big an impact on history. Act of violence, absolutely, as a clear eyed ideologue. So there is, you know, there's a distinction as a fine one to a certain degree. But there are plenty of people who act out in deference to schizophrenia, for example, or other disorders who end up committing horribly violent acts and may or may not have a political motive behind them. Some of them are explicitly apolitical. But then there's also the audience for that sort of thing. And there usually is an audience, especially for political violence, violence that is designed to inflame passions. And sometimes they leave manifestos behind indicating that that is their ideal. And the audience for this sort of thing sometimes give you clues as to what their motives are and what the milieu in which they're operating in is like. And one, the first thing that jumps to mind there is Shane Kimura, who about two years ago walked into a high rise in midtown Manhattan seeking the offices of the NFL because he wanted to execute as many people in the NFL as he possibly could, operating under the delusion that the NFL was responsible for the concussions that he suffered as a kid. He was disordered and he ended up going to the wrong place. He went to a real estate firm and he shot a bunch of people. One of the main, Wesley lapadner, who's a young real estate executive. And his act was a completely senseless act of violence. But the audience for it saw a lot of sense in it. They saw the execution of a rapacious capitalist, somebody who had it coming by virtue of her station and the degree to which she had benefited from ill begotten goods in society just by virtue of her participation in enterprise. And they perceived that act of violence to be a good thing that was due everyone else. It brought us one step closer to the revolution in which you and me and everybody who's a participant in this immoral network that we all inhabit, the United States, will get what's coming to us. That's the milieu in which we're operating in Right now this is our environment and it's going to get worse if we don't confront it.

[Armstrong]

Well, that's just spiteful envy. A disordered individual shoots the wrong person, but you think, well, that person, let's find some sins and pronounce them deserving of their fate. Which is horrifying. Which brings us to speaking of horrifying, the rising numbers of people, and most notably young people who will justify political violence of one sort or another, where did that come from?

[Noah Rothman]

Well, it's hard for me to say whether the degree to which it's been with us forever, because I do think there's an element of this that can be overread, that there's something in the young mind that is attracted to breaking taboos, to shocking elders. There are so few taboos left that do shock with the commensurate. Commensurate to their desire to be provocative. Anti Semitism is one and violence is another. The celebration of bloodshed for its own sake is another. But that performative ghoulishness, and we saw some of it the other day outside of the trial of Luigi Mangione, where three young ladies into camera competed with one another to be as ghoulish as they possibly could, called Brian Thompson, his alleged victim, a terrorist, said his children were better off without him. His two young children, that they were anything that he had bequeathed them was blood money. And most importantly, in my view, was that an indictment of the country. Because in the minds of one of these activists, we are the most passive and cowed population in the history of the planet. That anybody, any other civilization that was experiencing the kind of oppression that we're subjected to on a daily basis would have already risen up and overthrown their oppressors. And the fact that we don't is an indictment of us and indicative of how badly we need revolutionary violence in this country to wake us from our passivity. That is clear eyed, in my view. It is performative, it is a spectacle. But it's also designed to beget the kind of violent outcomes that are often encouraged tacitly, even if they don't acknowledge it by democratic political officials who attempt to co opt these movements. Why? Why did they append the but when they were condemning Brian Thompson's murder, why did they lean into Occupy Wall street or the 2020 George Floyd mobs? They see in these expressions of political zeal which may be a little excessive, maybe unrefined, but couldn't be harnessed and directed towards productive ends and maybe contribute to democratic political Prospects. It's a really utilitarian approach to what is in my view a cancer on American society and one that needs to be excised, not encouraged.

[Getty]

Are you more worried about individuals coming together under an ideology and acting out individually or the groups, the antifa, the proud boys, the whatever.

[Noah Rothman]

Wow, it's sort of a matter of degrees, isn't it? What am I more worried about? They're both extraordinarily troubling.

[Getty]

Well, which, which is more unique in this moment?

[Noah Rothman]

Well, what is most troubling, I would say we've seen more violence from individuals, so it's a more pronounced threat. But what's, what's really unnerving to me is the group violence, in particular the violence targeting police. Last year we saw three armed assaults on ICE and CBP facilities, some of which were quite deadly, one of which featured extremely sophistic, about 10 individuals. And there was no ambiguity about what they were trying to do. They left behind literature advocating for the proletarian revolution. We know who these people are, but they used fireworks to target this, this facility, lure their targets out and then open up on them from overlapping fields of fire on the tree line. That's sophisticated, that's an assault. That's a small cell terrorist act. And it's akin to what we saw in the 1970s and 1980s with the Marxist guerrilla groups who've targeted police explicitly. And it's similar to the socialist anarchist movements of the 1910s, 1920s who targeted police specifically. That's the sort of thing that is a portent of a possible convulsion, a spasm of organized left wing terroristic violence of the sort that we haven't experienced in this country in 50 years. But if you don't know that we haven't experienced it in 50 years or the 50 years before that, you won't know what you're looking at. You won't have any immunity to it. You won't know how to stop it. That's why blood in progress is in my view, so important.

[America 250 Announcer]

This July 4th, come celebrate at America's Block Party. Hosted by America 250, America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Experience music, performances from major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to Giving Forth helping to make make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history. It's more than just fireworks. Learn more about this landmark [e-mail]

[Funko Pop Advertiser]

this year it's pop's turn for a laugh. So celebrate Father's day with a gift that really pops a customized Funko Pop of him. First, think of all the things that make your dad the man. Then turn those ideas into a personalized Funko Pop. Select hair, clothing and skin tone options to match his fitness it. Don't forget to show off his favorite hobbies and sports with amazing accessories. You can even add his best friend. Start Creating [e-mail] Be unique, not anyone else.

[Noah Rothman]

Express it now. Just pop yourself.

[Funko Pop Advertiser]

That's Funko.com again.

[Armstrong]

Noah Rothman's new book is Blood in Progress. A Century of Left Wing Violence in America. We know your time is limited. In the couple of minutes we have left, can we talk about a couple of contemporary issues?

[Noah Rothman]

Of course.

[Armstrong]

First of all, what the hell is going on with the negotiations with Iran? Is this going anywhere or are we just getting strung along?

[Noah Rothman]

I think we're getting strong along and I'm a little disappointed with how this has gone in the ceasefire period. I think the Operation Epic Fury was a tactical triumph. The ceasefire has been a mess and it's not advancing our interests. And the president risks sacrificing a lot of the gains that were made in this process in two ways, the first of which being that during Operation Epic Fury, the Gulf states abandoned this pretense of neutrality and gravitated towards the United States and Israel. Of course they did because the United States and Israel were defending them against barrages of fire that were coming from Iran. We're seeing now, as the ceasefire breaks down, those barrages continue. Kuwait, Bahrain, uae, all getting struck over the course last night, a very significant assault on Kuwait city in which one person died and 63 were injured. And the president is kind of taking it all in stride. So that really risks the prospect of this kind of regional realignment that was very beneficial to American strategic interests. The second being that the president is moving towards the Iranians and the Iranians aren't moving towards us in this very specific way. He confirmed. Trump confirmed today that he did have this profanity laced tirade when he was yelling at Bibi Netanyahu, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, for constantly fighting in Lebanon. His words. Hezbollah attacked Israel during Operation Epic Fury. That war is ongoing, but Hezbollah started it. And now Iran, which used to deny that it had any links to Hezbollah, is under duress, saying, you gotta reign in Israel. Hezbollah's in real trouble. And he's doing that. Why? That's leverage. That's something you can use to get the Iranians to come to the table and be a little Bit more pliant in talks, if they were ever going to be. That's something they really hold dear, and you can hold it over their heads. But Trump's just giving it away and he's not getting anything for it. And I don't understand why. He's. Obviously, he thinks time is on his side, and he has some evidence in that to that effect. The blockade is a stranglehold on the Iranian economy, and they're starting to feel it and act like it. But at the same time, he too, is operating under obvious duress and obvious pressure, political pressure and practical pressure. You know, the United States really is short on these interceptor missiles, exquisite munitions that take a lot of time to refill. Nevertheless, he picked this war. The time is now, and it's time for him to finish the job that he started. So I've been very disappointed with the ceasefire process.

[Getty]

Well, and at stake is whether or not Iran gets a nuclear weapon, which I think has gotten lost, at least in the mainstream media or by a lot of people, that the. What's at stake is not the price of gas for the summer vacation you're going on, it's whether or not Iran gets a nuke. And we were saying on the air the other day, Iran getting a nuke would be one of the biggest moments in world history. You agree or disagree?

[Noah Rothman]

I do agree. And it's also beyond that. It's the shape of the region for decades to come. The next 50 years is on the table right now. Why have we been unable to execute the pivot to Asia that George W. Bush wanted, that Barack Obama wanted, that Trump wanted, that Biden wanted? It's Iran. Iran will not let us extricate ourselves from that region. It has been at war with us. It sounds like a cliche, but it's true. It has been at war with us, executing, killing Americans and executing operations on US soil and on our allies soil designed to murder our allies and Americans for 47 years. Not going to stop until that regime implodes. But we can contain that regime and the design being to collapse it so that we could finally execute our strategic priorities in other parts of the planet Earth. That's a really desirable goal. If the president were able to engineer it, it would have dividends that we would reap for generations to come. But it's a big project, and it's one that doesn't. Isn't going to take a couple of weeks to engineer. So, yeah, I understand that Americans are feeling the price of pain at the pump. I am, too. And The President hasn't asked us to bear any burdens, which is one of the reasons why I don't blame the American people for not really being all that jazzed about this operation. He should have enlisted the public in what is a national project that would entail sacrifices on their part. He still can't. Nothing's stopping him. But he seems content to pretend that this is all gonna work out in the end and it's not a big deal. And anybody who's complaining about it doesn't really know what they're talking about. And so, yeah, I don't blame anybody for repaying that lack of trust in kind, but it's not working out for him and it's not going to work out for America in the long run. Anybody who really appreciates the scope and gravity of what we're doing right now in the Middle east should want the President to take this more seriously. I certainly do.

[Armstrong]

Finally. Meanwhile, back in Europe, Vladimir Putin and Russia hopelessly admired in the situation, Ukraine probably losing ground. What do you hope for and what do you fear will be Vladimir Putin's next move?

[Noah Rothman]

He's severely constrained materially and tactically. What he's doing is trying to save face and executing some horrific crimes in the process. This week, I believe it was two days ago or last night, perhaps even a volley of ballistic missiles on civilian targets, indiscriminate targets inside Kiev. He is. The Putin regime is just engineering a crisis in warfare akin to nothing like the continent has seen since World War II. And what I fear is a nuclear standoff. I've always feared that. Not a nuclear exchange, not a detonation. People have a tendency to ally these things as though they don't have a difference. There's a huge difference. But a nuclear standoff, a crisis that I believe is defeat, because it certainly wouldn't be the first nuclear crisis between Washington and Moscow in our histories. But I have felt for a long time that that was going to be the tipping point, because that's the only. That's the only arrow in the, in Moscow's quiver at this point. They're severely tactically limited in what they can achieve on the battlefield, and they need a face saving way out of this crisis. And a face saving way out of this crisis would be to compel the west to back down in some fashion or form. I'm kind of surprised that we haven't gotten there yet. In part because the only value to nuclear weapons are to prevent the use of nuclear weapons. They otherwise have no tactical or strategic value. But I do feel like that is a very live possibility and it would be a very scary prospect. I don't want to downplay it. I think it's resolvable in a positive way. But it would be very scary and it would be very unnerving to a lot of people. And cooler heads may not prevail. They don't always do. So we shouldn't talk lightly about that sort of thing. But that's my biggest concern.

[Armstrong]

One more time. The book is Blood in Progress, essentially a century of left wing violence in America. Noah Othman, great pleasure to talk to you. Thanks for the time.

[Noah Rothman]

Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

[Getty]

So I admire Noah's efforts here. I hope it works, that we can sort of balance the conversation out there, that it's not just right wing violence, as we were told by Whoever it was, McCabe or Comey, one of your FBI directors and the media on a regular basis. Because like Noah says, we're never going to be able to wrap our heads around this or have any sort of conversation until we realize there's lots of political violence on both sides. There's way too much. We need to condemn it.

[Armstrong]

All right. Right. And the whole. In his listing out in the book of the reactions to not only the assassination of Brian Thompson, but he goes into a great deal detail about the assassination of Charlie Kirk and all of the people who condemned it, but. Condemned it, but condemned it, but as he described it is really quite striking when you read it.

[Getty]

Yeah.

[Armstrong]

And. And I think it's more powerful psychologically than. Than it seems at first blush. Because if you truly condemn something, you would say this is a horror. And nobody's frustration with health care justifies murder ever. But if it takes the form of. Of course I, I condemn political violence, but people are very unhappy about their healthcare and blah, blah, blah. That takes you to a different place rhetorically.

[Getty]

Of course it does.

[Noah Rothman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Armstrong]

Ugly.

[Getty]

Couldn't recommend the book more highly, especially if you're gonna end up in an argument with any liberal friends about who's got the most violence on their side. Blood in Progress by Noel Rothman.

[Armstrong]

Extra large

[America 250 Announcer]

this July 4th, come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Experience music, performances from major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving Forth helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history. It's more than just fireworks. Learn more about this landmark [e-mail]

[Funko Pop Advertiser]

this year it's Pop's turn for a laugh. So celebrate Father's Day with a gift that really pops a customized Funko Pop of him. For first, think of all the things that make your dad the man. Then turn those ideas into a personalized Funko Pop. Select hair, clothing, and skin tone options to match his fit. Don't forget to show off his favorite hobbies and sports with amazing accessories. You can even add his best friend. Start Creating [e-mail] Be unique, not anyone else.

[Noah Rothman]

Express it now. Just pop yourself.

[Funko Pop Advertiser]

That's Funko.com.