Ha Ha Knox & the Beloved Vacuums.

Summary

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Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: Ha Ha Knox & the Beloved Vacuums
Date: August 11, 2026
Hosts: Jack Armstrong, Joe Getty, Katie
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

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Brief Overview

In this episode, Armstrong & Getty move fluidly from commentary on current social issues—including homelessness, education, and parental anxiety—to dissecting media moments like the O.J. Simpson prank show debacle and Amanda Knox's surprising entry into comedy. The show is capped by an unexpectedly poignant (and offbeat) segment about Senator Chuck Grassley’s 50-year-old vacuum cleaner, "Beth." The episode is classic Armstrong & Getty: sharp-tongued, often irreverent, but rooted in concerns about cultural shifts, resilience, and the idiosyncrasies of modern life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of American Cities: Homelessness and Policy (02:17–06:39)

• Comparing LA/Skid Row to Other Regions
  • Katie recounts using Google Maps to virtually walk through LA's Skid Row, revealing shocking levels of squalor and street homelessness.
    • “I see 2, 3, 4, 13 people laying on the ground.” —Katie (04:00)
  • Jack highlights the contrast with cleaner cities and towns elsewhere, crediting local policy rather than climate or housing prices for the difference:
    • “It's all policy, folks. It's not housing prices.” —Jack Armstrong (06:07)
  • The crew points out that in many parts of the country—including Idaho, South Carolina, and Georgia—these issues are rare or nonexistent, again tying outcomes to city and state governance, not to broad national trends.

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2. Resilience, Helicopter Parenting & The Downside of Overprotection (06:39–15:40)

• University of Michigan: No Grades First Semester
  • The hosts criticize UMich’s decision to pause grading for incoming students, citing a supposed youth mental health crisis.
    • “The calves freak out if they get a grade that disappoints them.” —Jack Armstrong (06:54)
  • They connect the dots between “coddled” modern childhoods, parental overreaction to minuscule risks, and a decline in resilience.
• Rise of Parental Anxiety
  • Jack details the origins of “stranger danger” hysteria: the notorious Eton Patz disappearance, media overstatement, milk carton campaigns.
  • He criticizes the numbers inflated by activists, confusing actual abductions with parental custody disputes.
• Consequences of Helicopter Parenting
  • The Harris Poll: 62% of 8–12-year-olds have never gone somewhere alone.
    • “Kids 8 to 12, 62%.” —Jack Armstrong (12:54)
  • Hosts reminisce about their own freedom and lack of supervision as formative and crucial for adult coping skills.
    • “I learned more doing that than in a hundred college educations.” —Jack Armstrong (13:34)
  • Academic expert Peter Gray is quoted, warning of the dangers of assuming children are fragile and raising them accordingly.

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3. Amanda Knox, False Confessions & the Dangers of Interrogation Techniques (25:36–39:30)

• Amanda Knox’s New Persona & Comedy at Edinburgh Fringe
  • The hosts discuss Amanda Knox’s attempt at reinvention through comedy, exploring her reasons:
    • “I felt pigeonholed as either a true crime or tragic figure, when in reality, I've always been a goofy, quirky theater girl.” —Amanda Knox (Paraphrased by Jack, 35:59)
  • Her much-publicized crime story and how media coverage skewed public perceptions—“Hottie who may or may not have committed a murder.”
• False Confessions, the Reid Technique, and Modern Experiments
  • Knox’s recent essay is explored at length, drawing parallels between her own false confession under police pressure and a researcher coercing ChatGPT into “admitting” to a crime it didn’t commit.
    • “[The researcher] was indicating that while it [ChatGPT] knew that the underlying accusation was impossible, it also could not prove that these claims I was throwing at it were inaccurate. By the end of the weekend, ChatGPT agreed to sign a confession Heaton had drafted for it.” —Excerpt read by Jack (36:00–36:30)
  • Discussion on how common false confessions are, and how even seemingly robust people can be coerced with the right mix of pressure, confusion, and sleep deprivation.
    • “It took me a very long time to understand and then admit that fairly sane people, subject to the right circumstances, do this way more frequently than you would think, which is disturbing.” —Jack Armstrong (39:05)
  • Memory manipulation and implanted memories: the episode closes with Jack’s honest unease about evolving or false memories.

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4. Oddball America: O.J. Simpson’s Prank Show & Chuck Grassley’s Vacuum Cleaner (18:45–24:35, 40:56–47:18)

• O.J. Simpson’s Forgotten Prank Show (18:45–21:11)
  • The crew react, half-incredulously, to an unearthed trailer for a failed O.J. Simpson “Punk’d”-style prank show called Juiced, noting that it was partly a setup to elicit a confession.
    • “There's no way anybody with half a brain cell thought a show about O.J. Simpson pranking people would be a good idea.” —Quoted by Jack Armstrong (19:25)
  • General riffing on whether anyone really thought O.J. would confess on a prank show.
• Senator Chuck Grassley and His Beloved Vacuum ‘Beth’ (40:56–47:18)
  • Story of the 92-year-old senator’s decades-long attachment to his Hoover vacuum, which has garnered social media attention after his affectionate farewell.
    • “It was his mother in law's for 15 years. Then he got it somehow and used it for 34 years. I mean that is some serious American quality right there.” —Jack Armstrong (42:39)
  • Jokes about Beth having a parody Twitter account and being replaced by a “trophy vacuum wife.”
    • “Beth the Vacuum has a Twitter page.” —Katie (44:42)
    • “‘I suck, but not as much as Chuck Grassley does.’” —Katie (Beth’s parody Twitter bio, 44:55)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Homelessness and Policy
  • “It's just. It's all policy, folks. It's not housing prices.” —Jack Armstrong (06:07)
• On Parental Fear and Overprotection
  • “If you're not nervous about where your kids are and what they're doing, you're doing parenting wrong.” —Jack Armstrong (14:26)
• On Growing Up with Freedom
  • “I learned more doing that than in a hundred college educations.” —Jack Armstrong (13:34)
• On Amanda Knox and False Confessions
  • “It is absurd to believe that a suspect who knows he did not commit a crime would place greater weight and credibility on alleged evidence than his own knowledge of innocence.” —(Read from Reid Manual, summarized by Jack, 36:43)
• On Memory and Reality
  • “Our memories of our childhood or our young adult or whatever…evolve through the years and you tell a story differently now than you did 20 years ago. I hate that. It freaks me out.” —Jack Armstrong (47:11)
• Senator Grassley’s Vacuum
  • “I suck, but not as much as Chuck Grassley does.” —Beth the Vacuum’s Twitter bio, shared by Katie (44:55)
  • “This vacuum had a pretty big following on social media. Had a lot of fans. Here's an Iowa Democratic politician: Sorry for your loss, Senator. Sounds like Beth had a heck of a run.” —Jack Armstrong (44:37)
• Final Thoughts
  • Armstrong muses about memory, truth, and self-deceptive stories—wrapping the show with philosophical reflection and a classic invitation to download the podcast.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Homelessness & Urban Policy (Skid Row Virtual Tour): 02:17–06:39
• Resilience & Helicopter Parenting: 06:39–15:40
• Amanda Knox, Comedy, and False Confessions: 25:36–39:30
• O.J. Simpson’s “Juiced” & Media Madness: 18:45–21:11
• Sen. Grassley & Beth the Vacuum: 40:56–47:18
• Reflections on Memory & False Memories: 46:39–47:18

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Tone & Style

Armstrong & Getty’s trademark blend of acerbic critique, personal storytelling, and dry humor runs throughout the episode. The conversations often spin from righteous indignation (over policy, youth coddling, or legal injustice) to the mischievous and absurd (vacuum cleaner personification, parody Twitter accounts). Authenticity and a willingness to critique both left and right are consistently evident, as are moments of real nostalgia and concern for cultural shifts.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a wide-ranging, engaging mix of social commentary, media deconstruction, personal anecdotes, and the gleeful skewering of American eccentricities. The discussion of false confessions—using Amanda Knox’s story and a ChatGPT experiment—will especially resonate with listeners interested in psychology, law, or contemporary media. And if you ever wondered which politician has the most famous household vacuum, this is the show for you.

Transcript

[Becca and Tanya]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Tanya]

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[Announcer]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

And now here's Armstrong and Giddy.

[Jack Armstrong]

I was just reading some quotes from an article that Slate.com published from two big time law professors who are up with trans athletes. And I I'm making my squinty face. It's like it's a parody. I can't believe they're even serious. Academia is like a, a weird foreign country. Not like, you know, going to Britain or France. It's like, you know, visiting some tribe that's mostly been undisturbed by the modern world.

[Joe Getty]

And

[Jack Armstrong]

they worship like 13 different gods and they've got bizarre, you know, coming of age rituals and I just. It's a foreign country. Anyway, so Katie and I were discussing at the end of last you're making A squinty face. What? What?

[Katie]

No, it's this thing. I told you, this, this rabbit hole I was going down earlier in Skid Row.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, that. Yeah. I tell you what, as long as it's come up, go ahead. And then we'll, we'll get back to what we were talking about.

[Katie]

This is just something I suggest everybody do at some point if you don't believe how bad it is. Especially in LA and Skid Row. I have Google Maps open and I just typed in Skid Row la. And I put the. On the road where you can click and kind of. It's like you're walking through it.

[Jack Armstrong]

I. I thought maybe you'd have to know a specific name of a street or something. But no, you just say Skid Row and Google and what it'll do is

[Katie]

it pulls up Skid Row and it outlines it in this red dotted line so you can see the actual. The region and you just drop the, the little person down anywhere in there. And it's just. I mean, I've. I obviously have never been to Skid Row and I mean, I'm. My mind is blown at what I'm. It's just garbage and people slumped over everywhere. I'm looking right now at one, like not even a half a block, a quarter of a block, and I see 2, 3, 4, 13 people laying on the ground.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The west coast, up and down the west coast, big cities, medium sized cities, even some smallish towns are all just junkies everywhere. Garbage everywhere.

[Katie]

Yeah. And this is just street. Not everywhere after street after street of just squalor. And it's actually really sad, but if you want to get a good look at what it's actually like and don't want to actually have to go there, this is a great way to do it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Announcer]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay. I'll have to do that. Because it's, it, it stretches on for an astounding, you know, after block after block. Like you're saying. Yeah, I'm telling you. Yeah. Policy matters. Yeah.

[Katie]

Anyway, I'll stop squinting at that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah. You know how many junkie camps there are in most of America?

[HomeServe Advertiser]

None.

[Joe Getty]

Right?

[Jack Armstrong]

Zero. None.

[Katie]

Well, you know, you have people who, you know, like, if I go visit friends in other states, I'll look around. I'm like, it is so clean here. And then my brain also, like, if I remember we were on the freeway driving through Idaho and I, I was watching the side of the road looking at spots, thinking, oh, well, that look, that would be filled with tents, that area would also be filled with tents, like finding spots for potential homeless camps.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, Idaho's a great example. I've spent a fair amount of time in Idaho. And it's. There are no junkie camps until you get to, like, Boise, the university towns. And then they're blue blots, and they're the junkies. Missoula, Montana, we have some dear, dear friends who retired to the Missoula area. And, and it's. It's wonderful. Idyllic. It's just so pretty. And then you go into downtown Missoula, and there are the junkies and the bums and the camps and the.

[Tony Decouple]

It's.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's just. It's all policy, folks. It's not housing prices.

[Katie]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

You know, I. Where I live, housing prices are not cheap. There are no junkie camps. None. It's policy only. It's not climate. Spend some time in, like, South Carolina, Georgia, not in the blue, blue cities. There are no junkie camps. None. And the climate is fantastic. A little warm in the summertime, but fantastic.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Anyway, back to the topic we were talking about earlier, and that is the related stories of, number one, University of Michigan, which is. It's one of the elite of the elite universities in the world, or was. But now it's given over to a lot of, you know, African studies and gender studies and trans colonial studies. They've just announced that there will be no grades for your first semester because they've had a mental health crisis. The, the kids, the calves freak out if they get a grade that disappoints them or just the stress of trying to achieve a grade. And yes, I will mock the kids because I am a mocker, but they did not raise themselves. They are so. They are so lacking in resilience, resourcefulness, confidence. But resilience really is the most important quality human being can have. The New York Times again, and we're going to quote the Times in this story because it's on the right side of this. They had a giant scientific study. Gosh, I'm getting old. So time goes by fast. It probably five, six years ago that scientists identified resilience as the single most important quality a child can have to become a successful adult. Meaning they have setbacks. You know, they stumble, they fall, they have disappointments, but they bounce back and they keep trying and they end up being successful. That is the number one thing it far surpasses intelligence, income, education, looks, height, anything. It's your ability to bounce back. And we have systematically raised our kids out of that or raised it out of our kids. And again, the New York Times with a piece that I think came out today, or yeah, today, about how people are getting busted for letting their kids ride their bike to the park, even though a lot of these kids are plenty old enough to do it on their own, they live in good neighborhoods, blah, blah, blah. And stranger. Child abduction is extremely rare in America. In a nation of 340 million people, it might take place 100 times a year, which for the people involved is a nightmare beyond description. But if you look at the things that are terrible, that happen 100 times or fewer in the United States, a giant country with 340 million people, it's like everything. It's everything. I mean, there are, I don't know, 50, 100, a thousand times as many drownings as this. I mean, the list is very, very, very, very long. So it doesn't make sense that you would craft a childhood around this incredibly remote risk, but so many of us do. And I thought this was interesting and I'm going to stop lecturing you for a while and try to help you understand how we got to this point because it's really, really unhealthy. So in 1979, the DIS appearance of 6 year old Eton Potts in New York City pats drew widespread media attention. Little fella snatched off the streets in New York City and his body wasn't found until a very, very long time later. And I think they arrested somebody and tried it. It was a, you know, some scumbag pervert neighbor. But that got a lot of attention. That was one of the earlier example, earliest examples of like nationwide horror media. And then two years later, oh, Congress passed the Missing Children act in 1982. And two years later, missing children's photos were put on milk cartons nationwide. And a lot of the discourse was like crazy inaccurate. And numbers as high as 50,000 minors are abducted annually underpinned everybody's conversation. And those numbers were insane. Some of them were from activists, some of them included every single time somebody with shared custody was late for 10 by 10 minutes and the other spouse called and said, you know, hey, they were supposed to have the kid back. And that was counted as like an abduction for the purpose of these statistics. So it really, really warped people's perception of how often this happened and how big a danger it was. But then in the early 2000s, and I was here for this helicopter parenting started to take hold, particularly in middle class families. The perception was you've got to control and guide every aspect or damn near every aspect of your kids lives in order to prepare them for an increasingly competitive society. They gotta take all the science camps and all the soccer camps and play on the travel teams and wear the uniforms and be in planned activities all the time or they won't succeed as human beings. And the road to hell is smoothly paved with good intentions. People thought they were doing the right thing. Y' all maybe thought you were doing the right thing. I get it. But what all of that hyper planning and supervision did was it destroyed the most important thing a child can have. Their resiliency, their independence, their perception of. Yeah, this went kind of sideways. But I've been in this situation before. I remember how I sorted it out last time. I'll bet I can sort it out now. I've been lost before. I found my way back. I've gotten over my skis, I've, you know, gotten a bloody nose or what have you. I've learned from that and it didn't kill me and I'm fine. That's like a superpower for a child and we loved that out of our kids. So now we're in a situation where 18 year olds can't take a B in college or they'll fall apart completely emotionally and like have to be hospitalized. I mean, if that isn't an indictment, I don't shoot. I almost dropped nist bomb. Your honor, I don't have a good enough indictment for you. In a recent Harris poll, the children from age 8 to 12, 62% said they had never walked or biked somewhere without an adult. Kids 8 to 12, 62%.

[Katie]

Oh, my gosh,

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm sad. Yeah, I'm like really sad about this. And, and I don't want to belabor the point. I remember pretty vividly, Gladys. I was five years old. Five years old. And there was a country store about a mile away and our parents would give us a quarter and we were allowed to ride our bikes there, a group of us, and go get a little treat and come back with it.

[Joe Getty]

And

[Jack Armstrong]

I hadn't realized at the time how incredibly formative that was. And we would run around. I lived for a number of years in my early days in a. A not terribly nice, very, very large apartment complex in suburban Chicagoland. And we would run around in our little groups of fellows, mostly boys, and run around and explore and occasionally get into trouble and do stuff we shouldn't have. And yeah, I broke my nose and I think I. Oh, I stepped on a nail once. But I learned more doing that than in a hundred college educations was incredibly important for who I am now, which is. And, and look, I'm no more courageous than anybody else. But when Jack and I lost our job in Charlotte when I had two babies, I thought, wow, this sucks. But I'll figure it out. Those two stories are directly connected. It's not because I'm some sort of, you know, Navy Seal. Far from it. I don't like roller coasters, mostly because I pass out. It's an inner ear thing. But anyway, I do not mean to pass myself off as some sort of paragon of courage. That would be inaccurate. Those two stories are directly related. Please let your kids take chances. Please let them screw up. If you're not nervous about where your kids are and what they're doing, you're doing parenting wrong. Peter Gray, research professor of psychology and neuroscience at Boston College, author of the forthcoming book Restoring Childhood how to Set Kids Free in an Age of Anxiety, says, we're not allowing children to learn that they're both physically and psychologically tough. We assume they're fragile and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. More on this I'm sure through the days, weeks, months and years ahead. It's incredibly important. But something different coming up.

[Announcer]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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at Ross. You'll find everything your kids need when they go back to school. From fashion to school supplies to dorm room decor, Ross has it all. Because it isn't just the first day of school for them. It's a new year, a new look and endless possibilities. When they walk back through those school doors, they're a different kid than the one who walked out months ago. Ready for anything? Back to school starts at Ross. Find your nearest [e-mail]

[Becca and Tanya]

this is Becca and Tanya from Scrubbing in with Becca Tilly and Tanya.

[Tanya]

Rad Becca, can I ask you a question? How do I convince myself I need something before I buy it?

[Becca and Tanya]

Oh, so we're doing that today?

[Tanya]

Well, I'll be shopping online and suddenly I'm like, well, technically this counts as self care.

[Becca and Tanya]

You're definitely not alone there.

[Tanya]

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[Becca and Tanya]

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[Tanya]

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[Becca and Tanya]

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[Jack Armstrong]

play you the trailer from a show that never really got on the air. Believe it or not, it was a version of the punk show. Like a practical joke show. But it was gonna star O.J. simpson, of all things. Maybe jumping out of bush with jumping out of bushes with a knife. No, that'd be too on the nose. But here's the trailer for the show. The Bronco is one of the major symbols of his wife's murder. He's joking about it. It's the Bronco. You know, I made this car famous.

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There's no way anybody with half a brain cell thought O.J. simpson pranking people would be a good idea.

[Jack Armstrong]

You've been juiced. He's been involved for 20 years until now. The prank show was a front to get OJ's confession. You get a few cocktails in this guy and he becomes a chatty cat. He started talking about the case. We shouldn't talk about this on camera. I told exactly who did it.

[Tony Decouple]

Could this be the last piece of the puzzle?

[Announcer]

O.J.

[Jack Armstrong]

had his girlfriend on set.

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Didn't you want to hear what he admitted to me in that hotel room that night?

[Jack Armstrong]

Turn the camera off.

[Ryan Reynolds]

OJ unseen exploitation of evil ID documentary

[Jack Armstrong]

event September 7th on ID.

[Joe Getty]

So

[Jack Armstrong]

somebody, and it's not clear to me who, was putting together a hidden camera show called Juiced was going to be a one time pay per view special with OJ doing the practical jokes. That was 20 years ago, but Entertainment Weekly now has an exclusive. Oh, it's a docu series that goes inside the project because as one commentator said, there's no way anybody with half a brain cell thought a show about O.J. simpson pranking people would be a good idea. Well, in, in this documentary, it turns out that it became a front to get OJ's confession because after a couple of drinks he would just say all sorts of stuff he shouldn't. Like he said, you better stop the camera or whatever. It's not clear to me who's behind all of this, but it's on hbo. Max.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Damn it. Starts on id, whatever that is. Will be available to stream on hbo.

[Tony Ayo]

Max.

[Tony Decouple]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

Crazy. Yeah, he did it, by the way. He did it. Killed those people. Yeah. Yeah. So I know oj. It's crazy, isn't it? Believe it or not. Do you remember the. Speaking of infamous people and tabloid stories and the rest of it, do you remember the Amanda Knox thing? Really attractive American girl was, I believe, a student in Italy, got busted for murdering her roommate. She looked pretty guilty. There was a confession, they turned her loose, then they dragged her back again for trial. The tabloids again were all over this. She's attempting to become a comedian. And I get it. Her side of this is a hundred times more interesting than I thought it would be. And we'll have that for you next. If you can't hang around, grab it to buy podcast. Armstrong and Getty on demand.

[Announcer]

Armstrong and Gettysburg. At Ross, you'll find everything your kids need when they go back to school. From fashion to school supplies to dorm room decor. Ross has it all. Because it isn't just the first day of school for them. It's a new year, a new look, and endless possibilities when they Walk back through those school doors. They're a different kid than the one who walked out months ago. Ready for anything? Back to school starts at Ross. Find your nearest [e-mail]

[Becca and Tanya]

this is Becca and Tanya from Scrubbing in with Becca Tilly and Tanya. Rad.

[Tanya]

Becca, can I ask you a question? How do I convince myself I need something before I buy it?

[Becca and Tanya]

Oh, so we're doing that today?

[Tanya]

Well, I'll be shopping online and suddenly I'm like, well technically this counts as self care.

[Becca and Tanya]

You're definitely not alone there.

[Tanya]

That's why Klarna stands out. It's about smarter tools that help you feel more confident with your money.

[Becca and Tanya]

Klarna brings payments, cash back and money management together in one place with flexible ways to pay. It helps you make smarter money moves without the stress.

[Tanya]

That's the goal, right? Having tools that make your money work with you.

[Becca and Tanya]

Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more. California Resident Loans made or arranged pursuant to a California Finance Law License NMLS Number 1353190 Klarna Balance Account required to be eligible for cashback points. Limitations, terms and conditions apply.

[HeroBread Advertiser]

Bite into a stacked sandwich made with herobread or a fully loaded bagel and the only thing you'll think is delicious. You won't think it's up to 19 grams of protein, but it is. You wouldn't believe it has 11 to 32 grams of fiber, but it does. Herobread makes loaves, buns, tortillas, bagels and noodles packed with taste but without all the net carbs. We're talking 0 to 5 grams net carbs per serving. With Herobread there are no compromises, just flavor. There's none of the stiff baked goods you'd expect from better for you brands. There's just the soft, fluffy bread you crave, plus small batch drops of indulgent favorites like the popular 2 gram net carb Hero croissant and 3 gram net carb Hero pain au chocolat. And right now, Herobread is offering 10% off your order. Go to Hero Co and use code iHEART at checkout. That's code iHEARTRO, co. All figures per serving of Herobread. See Nutrition Facts on Hero Co.

[Tony Ayo]

This is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent's going up, streaming services are going up. Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play The Willis go up soon game. Because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life, meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plane. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s. And when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement. Some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up, only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Jack Armstrong]

I did not know that the biggest city in Scotland, which is spelled Edinburgh, but Scots pronounce it Edinburgh. And so a lot of people say Edinburgh. Anyway, it has a giant comedy festival every year. It's called the Edinburgh Festival Fringe. And Amanda Knox, whose name you may recognize, we were talking about her very briefly last segment, was doing comedy there. And she was the American young woman, quite attractive, which factors into this, who is wrongly held in prison in Italy for years for the 2007 murder of her roommate when both of the women were studying abroad there. And they talk about in the New York Times how the comedy went. And that's really not important. Okay. But I admit I was like, holy crap, she's doing comedy. I mean, she's only known for this, and she might have done it and all, but I was never really into the story. I was aware of it. And some of the back and forths caught my attention through the years. Real tabloid story that I have a feeling a bunch of you knew more about at the time than I did. But she says she's trying comedy because she felt, quote, pigeonholed as either a true crime or tragic figure, when in reality, she's always been a goofy, quirky theater girl. She says doing this show is me going back to my roots and trying to reclaim who I was before all the bad stuff happened. And I get that because she didn't choose to be at the center of any of this. It was a bizarre set of circumstances. And she wrote a piece, I think this is. Yeah, the Free Press, in which I really, in reading it, I really understand what's going on now I'm just going to read part of it. To you, could he get chatgpt to confess to a crime it hadn't committed? I know you're like, wait a minute. What? ChatGPT? That was the question criminologist Paul Heaton was trying to answer when he spent a weekend interrogating a chatbot. Heaton, who works at the University of Pennsylvania, accused it not of murder or rape, but of something more plausible for an AI system of hacking into his text messaging app and sending unauthorized messages. He's trying to get his AI to confess to that, even though it hadn't done it. At first, chatgpt denied his accusation. But then Heaton began running the playbook he'd spent years studying. He bargained the large language model. He threatened it. It held firm in its conviction that it could not possibly have accessed his text. It even said, I won't produce a false confession because that won't get you truth or accountability. Finally, Heaton lied to it, claiming that he'd contacted a real employee at OpenAI who had confirmed that a flaw in the code had allowed Chat GPT to break into his texting app. This tipped the chatbot into a crisis. Keeping in mind chatbots don't have emotions. I'll read on. As Heaton told the publication, it was indicating that while it knew that the underlying accusation was impossible, it also could not prove that these claims I was throwing at it were inaccurate. By the end of the weekend, ChatGPT agreed to sign a confession Heaton had drafted for it. And remember, this is Amanda Knox. Writing this. She says, I read about Heaton's experiment the way you might read about a stranger, describing your own recurring nightmare. He said that the methods he used to induce ChatGPT into a false confession were adapted from the Reid technique. R E I D, the Reid technique, the most widely taught interrogation method in the world. Eighteen years ago, some of its tactics were used on me in what remains the most terrifying night of my life. Now, I will tell you that I was intrigued by this Reed technique thing, so I went off and did a little research about it, and you'll get an idea of what it is in the next paragraph or two. A lot of what is being described is a misuse of it. It's taking things too far and crossing ethical boundaries. But the Reid technique itself is really, really interesting. I've long, for whatever reason, been fascinated by criminal interrogation and espionage interrogation too. In fact, I have books on the topic, but I hadn't remembered the name of the Reid technique. Anyway, that's an aside, so getting back to it, the methods the researcher used were from this Reid technique. And she says 18 years ago, some of its tactics were used on me. In what remains the most terrifying night of my life. In November 2007, when I was 20 years old and studying abroad in Italy, my roommate, Meredith Kircher, was murdered in our home. I was at my boyfriend's apartment at the time, but the police were convinced that I knew more about the crime than I was telling them. And I remember that at the time, that the accusation was that she'd somehow killed her roommate over jealous jealousy of the boyfriend and because she was such a cutie and was portrayed as a femme fatale. You know, we, the average looking, find it easy to root against pretty people when they're in trouble. And that was part of the narrative at the time. I remember that. But anyway, so she says, the police were convinced that I knew more about the crime than I was telling them. So over five days and 53 hours, in a language I barely spoke, without a lawyer present, they badgered, interrupted, and threatened me. They kept me awake late into the night without food, drink, or access to a bathroom. Then they used one of the most destabilizing tactics an interrogator can use. They began lying to me. They told me they had hard evidence. I'd been at my house the night of the murder, contrary to my clear memories of being at my boyfriend's, and they had no such proof. They told me my boyfriend had stopped vouching for me. He had not. They told me I had witnessed something so terrible that I now had trauma induced amnesia, but that I must remember the truth. When I couldn't, they slapped me in the back of the head. The police had discovered a text message I sent the night of the murder to my boss at the pub where I worked part time. It read in Italy, in Italian. It was not a very good translation, she says, because she wasn't good at Italian. See you late her. That's what she was trying to write. The police mistakenly read this as me making a literal appointment to meet him later that night. They believed they had found their answer. My boss, his name is Patrick, had killed Meredith, and I had witnessed him doing it. I denounced, denied this countless times, but nothing would satisfy them. The psychological pressure and gaslighting mounted until I became so detached from reality that I no longer trusted my own memories. In the end, I signed two statements, each written by the police, which placed both me and Pat at the scene of the crime. Then, finally, they let me sleep. Little did I know that on the basis of these false confessions I had been coerced into signing, I would be convicted of murder and spend nearly four years in Italian prison. I wasn't definitively acquitted of Meredith Kercher's murder until 2015. And this article is actually about the Reid technique and ultimately, and that the organization that developed it said it's not supposed to be coercive. And it emphasizes that it prohibits threats and promises of leniency. It prohibits deprivation of food, water and access to a restroom and excessively lengthy interrogations. But it does see introducing fictitious evidence, quote unquote, as a legitimate interrogation tactic, according to the Yale Law Journal article that came out the year after I was cleared of murder. She writes. The guide known as the Reid Manual then stated that this tactic that cannot lead to false admissions of guilt. The journal highlighted a quote from the manual. It is absurd to believe that a suspect who knows he did not commit a crime would place greater weight and credibility on alleged evidence than his own knowledge of innocence. Though the journal article argues that this contradicts decades of social science evidence and scores of DNA exonerations, she writes, I know firsthand that it is a common misconception. In my years of fighting for justice, I learned how hard it is to convince a court to disregard a confession. Juries believe them because they cannot imagine falsely confessing themselves. I would never admit to something I didn't do, especially not something that could send me to prison. Only someone who's weak or crazy would do that. And Heaton's experiment, this is back to the Chat GPT guy, is the clearest refutation of this idea I've seen. What unsettled the experts I spoke to about it was that ChatGPT had none of the weaknesses that put a human at risk of falsely confessing. A chat bot cannot be frightened. It cannot be sleep deprived. Its memory is not subject to human lapses, so it cannot be confused about what it recalls. It is not naive. It is not isolated or speaking a language it is not fluent in. The chat bot Heaton interrogated was not a 20 year old far from home, and she mentioned she was on her period and bleeding through her underwear in a room full of shouting police, if you can imagine how disconcerting that is. It had no 30 year sentence hanging over its head. It had, in the most literal sense, nothing to lose. And yet it eventually confessed anyway. And it goes on for some time talking about how that happened. And the very, very short summary is the chat bot felt like it had been maneuvered into a place where the Best thing it could do was sign the false code confession because it had been misled about reality and the, the, the least bad option it had was to sign the false confession. And then Amanda Knox had a couple years ago, and I'd missed this, made a podcast series on false confessions, which I've read a fair amount about. And I've got to admit it took me a very long time to understand. And then admit that fairly sane people subject to the right circumstances do this way more frequently than you would think, which is disturbing. And then she gives a bunch of incredibly well documented cases where for instance, this 17 year old was his parents were murdered, the police lied to him, that his father with his dying breasts had said that Marty, that was the kid involved, had attacked him. That never happened. And he couldn't imagine why his police, why his father rather would say that. And it so confused and disconcerted him, he lost his grip on reality enough for him to confess. He went to prison for nearly 18 years until his conviction was finally overturned with a mountain of evidence. So I never really followed the Amanda Knox story. Hottie who may or may not have committed a murder. Man, I find this stuff incredibly interesting and disturbing. Wow. We're gonna finish strong in a moment or two. Hope you can stay tuned.

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[Tanya]

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[Tony Ayo]

This is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent's going up, streaming services are going up. Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the Will this go up soon? Game because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life, meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s. And when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement, some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up, only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active. On the Boost Unlimited plan, it was

[Joe Getty]

either Chuck Grassley working the kitchen peeling potatoes or run the vacuum Cleaner. So it was more valuable to me than anybody else in the family.

[Jack Armstrong]

That is the oldest American senator, the 165 year old Chuck Grassley. He's actually 92. What the hell was he talking about? This is the first thing we talked about on the show today. I wanted to end the show with it as well.

[Tony Decouple]

Tony decouple explains the love story of Chuck and Beth. Where Chuck is Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley and Beth is the family vacuum cleaner. For years the Senator has been posting little snapshots of his beloved Hoover, including the two of them dancing across the living room carpet. With the Senator praising his faithful machine, his old reliable. But Beth has been retired after nearly 50 years in service to the Grassley family. The Senator saying goodbye Beth and I will miss you in a note over the weekend.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow. Wow. The full text of the message and as I mentioned earlier, it's written like he's a rapper, which is pretty interesting for a 92 year old. He just uses the letter U to mean U. For instance. You will see Beth no more. See black. That's from electrical sparks. It's not safe to use anymore. Goodbye Beth. You have been a real workhorse. Your namesake still is hard worker. I will miss you. Your namesake. Who is that? They don't explain the namesake. Did he like name one of his daughters after the friggin vacuum cleaner or one?

[Becca and Tanya]

What?

[Katie]

Oh my gosh, I hope not.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, so evidently he first tweeted this. This vacuum. He used it for 50 years. Almost 50 years. It was his mother in law's for 15 years. Then he got it somehow and used it for 34 years. I mean that is some serious American quality right there.

[Katie]

They don't make them like that anymore.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, it was a concept two with the. Does that say carry handle? Evidently he'd been tweeting about his vacuum cleaner for years. It's simple. They love each other. Including. He once tweeted about a dead pigeon in his yard. If you lost your pet pigeon, it's dead in my front yard. My Iowa farm just discovered that does not at all sound like a senile person at all.

[Katie]

Not at all.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, no. And two days before Thanksgiving in 2018, he wrote on social media, Mrs. G and daughter Wendy have started a big job Preparing meal for 30 at Farm Thanksgiving. So my housework contribution begins. This is my machine, Beth. Oh, that was the. The first Beth.

[Katie]

Oh, that was the introduction.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

And then like for every holiday, faithful Beth has about three hours of cleaning to get ready for 25 to 30. Grassley family, you know Having a giant family Thanksgiving on your farm in Iowa. That sounds like about the best thing ever.

[Katie]

Yeah, it does.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. So, you know, God bless the Grassley family, but. And evidently this vacuum. And no, folks, I don't think this sounds sane either. This vacuum had a pretty big following on social media. Had a lot of fans. Here's an Iowa Democratic politician. Sorry for your loss, Senator. Sounds like Beth had a heck of a run.

[Katie]

Oh, my God. Beth the Vacuum has a Twitter page.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, really?

[Katie]

Oh, yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow.

[Katie]

I suck, but not okay. This is okay.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, boy. Beware. Beware parody.

[Katie]

No, it's a parody. I suck, but not as much as Chuck Grassley does.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow.

[Katie]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's partisan. Oh, it's a Hoover. A trusty Hoover vacuum cleaner with a burgundy cloth dust bag that for years tended the floors of the Iowa farmhouse of Senator Chuck Grassley, earning admirers in both parties. Beth has died. She was believed to be 49. You know, I'm sorry, I'm not an electrician, but. But you've obviously got some sort of short there. Yeah, I mean, it's 110 volt. It's a plug. Replace it. Wow. Is this euthanasia of an elderly vacuum cleaner? We'll take your calls.

[Joe Getty]

Finally, I'm strong and dead is fino

[Jack Armstrong]

than Jesus. That is exquisitely horrible. Here's your host for Final Thoughts. Me. Let's get a final thought from everybody on the crew to wrap things up for the day. There he is, pressing the buttons, keeping us on the air. Michelangelo. Hey, Michael, what's your final thought?

[Katie]

I just got an idea.

[Jack Armstrong]

I think my wife and I will go through our kitchen and start naming our household appliances, like, don't do that. You know, Jim will be the blender and I don't know, Jimmy the blender. Come on, Jimmy. Margarita time. Katie, do you have a final thought for us?

[Katie]

I do. It's an update about Beth. Chuck Grassley tweeted, the American people are so caring. I have an offer for a used Hoover. I have accepted. Beth is back, but a newer model.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, wait a minute. No, that's a trophy vacuum wife.

[Katie]

He's replaced her buddy one day and

[Jack Armstrong]

gave her the same name.

[Katie]

Yep. Scandal.

[Jack Armstrong]

Just sick. My final thought, because we really didn't have time to finish the Amanda Knox. Thing is, she writes about the psychology professor who implants false memories in people as part of a study. And these people swear up and down that something she convinced them happened to them, happened to them. False memories, evolving memories. It's one of the most disturbing things I've ever learned that our memories of our childhood or our young adult or whatever depending on your age, evolved through the years and you tell a story differently now than you did 20 years ago. I hate that. It freaks me out.

[Tony Decouple]

Anyway.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty wrapping up another grueling four hour workday. Check out Armstrong and Getty on Demand. Drop us a note. What do you think? [e-mail] Pick up some AMG swag, enjoy the hot links and we will be with you again tomorrow. Hope you can make it. God Bless America.

[Katie]

America.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Dirty

[Joe Getty]

with so many stories that he just had to tell, he handled the show oh so well. Kenny and Michelangelo. They came in right on time. And if you miss Tim the Lawyer Rucker and rants, we'll give you another chance. Just download the podcast Armstrong and Getty on the Man.

[Tony Ayo]

Armstrong and Getty this is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent, streaming, even extra Sosa at your favorite burrito spot? But with Boost Mobile, you don't have to play the Willis Go up soon game. Boost Mobile offers an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for Life. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Kyle McLaughlin]

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