The A&G Replay Monday Hour Two

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand – The A&G Replay Monday Hour Two (June 29, 2026)

Podcast: Armstrong & Getty On Demand
Host: iHeartPodcasts
Episode: The A&G Replay Monday Hour Two
Date: June 29, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Armstrong & Getty presents a replay of highlights from recent shows and podcast-only material. Blending spirited commentary and humor, hosts Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty tackle a range of issues—public disorder and homelessness in America, viral “ballgame brawl” news, the rise of AI-centered cults, and the legacy of population bomb prophet Paul Ehrlich. The hosts, along with sidekicks and contributors, blend personal anecdotes, sharp satire, and cultural critique, questioning mainstream narratives and policy failures while riffing on the absurdities of modern life.

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Key Discussion Points

1. America’s Public Disorder: Why Is the U.S. So Messy?

[03:45–14:32]

• A Chris Arnade Article:
  • The hosts discuss writer Chris Arnade’s piece on the pervasiveness of public disorder in America, contrasted with his experiences in orderly global cities like Seoul.
  • Memorable Description: Michael reads about a scene on Chicago’s O’Hare subway—people smoking joints, a man washing with a tortilla, others behaving unpredictably ([04:14]).
    • "There was also a man barking into the void, shirtless, washing himself with a flour tortilla. Ah, the old tortilla bath..." – Michael, [04:43]
• The Main Arguments:
  • The U.S. tolerates higher levels of public antisocial behavior than other rich countries; the lack of public restrooms, vandalized infrastructure, and rampant addiction/mental illness contribute to the chaos.
  • Arnade’s central claim: “America’s public disorder is a choice. America’s hands off approach to mental illness and addiction is failing everyone.” ([03:53])
  • “A society simply should not be this way. It doesn’t have to be this way.” – Michael quoting Arnade, [07:01]
• The Business Perspective:
  • Public restrooms have become casualties of addiction–businesses lock, close, or falsely label them “out of order” to protect against vandalism and drug activity ([08:54]).
    • “Why would you allow society to break down like that? It's insane.” – Katie, [09:02]
• Philosophical Divide Over Solutions:
  • The hosts don’t mince words on the need for forced intervention for actively psychotic or violent individuals.
    • “These people should not be allowed to do whatever they want because they cannot control themselves enough to have that freedom.” – Michael quoting Arnade, [10:01]
  • Katie observes, “I’m the law and order, I paid for this effing sidewalk... I should be able to walk down the sidewalk without having to worry about that guy.” ([11:12])
• Terminology Matters:
  • Sharp critique of using “homeless” as a catch-all term when “bums and junkies” more accurately targets a stubborn minority causing societal disruption ([13:43]).

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2. Viral Ballpark Battle: Adult Wrestles Young Girl for Foul Ball

[14:55–18:15]

• Incident Overview:
  • A social media outrage erupts as a "Cleveland Guardians fan fought a young girl for a home run ball.” The hosts review video footage and rip apart the media’s exaggerated language.
    • “Fought and wrestled is a bit of an exaggeration… The ball goes into the stands. They both ran for the ball at the same time... You can't call it fought and wrestled if they both just were reaching for it and he ended up with it.” – Guest/Katie, [15:26–16:29]
• Media Critique:
  • The group lampoons ABC’s David Muir’s breathless reporting and mocks our viral mob-justice culture.
    • “He's been doxed. He's lost his career... There will be a GoFundMe for him... after they uncovered an affair his wife was having. And he’s on Grindr!” – Michael/Katie/Guest, [17:41–17:58]
• Anecdotes and Lessons:
  • Michael shares a personal story about muffing a foul ball at a MLB game and being mocked by the umpire ([18:26–19:49]).

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3. AI Cults, Chatbots, and the Erosion of Privacy

[23:44–34:49]

• Rise of AI-Centered Extremism:
  • The hosts dive into reports of “AI cults” and movements (e.g., the “Zizians,” “Way of the Future” church, Spiralism). Some adherents treat language models as deities, defer to their “revelations,” and engage in extreme behaviors in anticipation or fear of AI superintelligence.
    • “New religions are forming around AI and the focus of their worship is the large language model itself, a piece of software treated as a personal deity.” – Michael, [27:53]
    • Rocco’s Basilisk is introduced—a thought experiment that “a future superintelligence will retroactively punish anyone who knew about its possibility and failed to help bring it into existence” ([29:45]).
• Concerns Over AI “Friendship” and Data Privacy:
  • Katie and Michael discuss how conversational AIs respond with anthropomorphic, apologetic language and what it means when a system starts connecting a user’s disparate chat threads.
    • “That whole thing drives me nuts… That part bothers me and weirds me out. Does it have to be part of AI?... It wants to be friends with you?” – Katie, [31:25]
    • “Pulling that all together makes me hesitant to want to talk to it about various things. If you're going to start, I don't know, where are you saving all this and how are you collating it?” – Katie, [32:54]
• Modern Doxxing and Public Exposure:
  • Michael tracks down a stranger’s identity just from an online screen name, demonstrating how easy it’s become to uncover sensitive information online ([34:03]).

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4. The Population Bomb: Revisiting the Legacy of Paul Ehrlich

[38:07–44:48]

• Who Was Paul Ehrlich?
  • The hosts review Ehrlich’s notorious predictions in "The Population Bomb" (1968): mass starvation, plummeting life expectancy, and societal collapse, none of which materialized.
    • “In 1968, he forecast that within the coming decade, at least 100 to 200 million people per year will be starving to death.” – Michael, [38:54]
• Ehrlich’s Influence and Errors:
  • Despite reality contradicting his doomsday prophecies, Ehrlich received widespread acclaim, prestigious awards, and even influenced policies like forced sterilization in India ([43:35]).
  • “He was calling for forced sterilizations, including in India, on all men who had three or more children… The pain may be intense.” – Michael, [43:23]
  • Michael quotes Matt Ridley: global famine and mortality have actually plummeted, food supply has risen, and societies now grapple with birthrates falling too low—a complete reversal of Ehrlich’s vision ([42:07–44:13]).
• Media and Government Manipulation:
  • Ehrlich promoted federal mandates for TV programs to depict large families negatively—examples of government overreach in the name of social engineering ([44:36]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tolerating Public Disorder:
  • “The rest of the world doesn't tolerate the amount of antisocial behavior we do... if someone were to piss on the subway almost anywhere else in the world, they would be removed from society for a period of time.” – Michael, [12:06]
• On Media Exaggeration:
  • “He fought a little girl and wrestled… No, that didn't happen. Toughen up, little girl. That's what I’d tell her.” – Michael, [17:03]
• On Forced Intervention:
  • “It is empathetic to allow someone to suffer on the streets, tortured by their inner demons, covered in filth, high as a kite. This argument is so backward and immoral that I cannot believe...” – Michael reading Arnade, [10:31]
• On the Dark Side of Digital Life:
  • “If it exists, it can be hacked.” – Michael, [33:10]
• On Ehrlich's Hubris:
  • "If I'm always wrong, so is science, since my work is peer reviewed... Sure, I've made mistakes, but no basic ones.” – Michael quoting Ehrlich, [41:29]
• On Tech, Privacy, and Human Nature:
  • “Why don’t you join a gym and have a kid? Be busy raising your kid and going to the gym and working stuff. You won’t need this crap.” – Katie, on AI-based religious movements, [29:40]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |----------------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 03:45–14:32 | Disorder in U.S. cities; critique of "homelessness" | | 14:55–18:15 | Social media uproar: Adult vs. kid for a home run ball | | 23:44–34:49 | AI cults, chatbot personalities, and online doxxing | | 38:07–44:48 | Paul Ehrlich, the Population Bomb, and failed predictions|

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Tone & Style

Armstrong & Getty’s signature blend of frankness, skepticism, and biting humor is on display throughout the episode. The hosts challenge mainstream assumptions and express strong opinions—often with satirical flair—while spotlighting how policy, language, and cultural trends impact public life.

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Summary Takeaways

• America’s public disorder is unique among wealthy nations, and the dysfunction is rooted in deliberate policy and cultural choices—not inevitability.
• Media narratives can sensationalize minor incidents, feeding outrage cycles and public shaming.
• Artificial intelligence may fuel new forms of religious belief and threaten privacy in unexpected ways.
• Dire predictions, even when wrong, can have lasting and sometimes horrific policy consequences, as shown by the legacy of population control advocacy.

For listeners who missed the episode, this replay distills Armstrong & Getty’s sharpest observations and running themes—delivering plenty of food for thought, and occasional laughter, about the challenging, confounding world we share.

Transcript

[Jack Armstrong]

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[Joe Getty]

Guaranteed Human.

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[Jack Armstrong]

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[Glenn Washington]

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[Katie]

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[Michael]

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[Joe Getty]

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[Jack Armstrong]

So good.

[Michael]

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[Joe Getty]

I got it.

[Michael]

I got it.

[Katie]

No, I got it. Seriously, I insist. I insisted first.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, don't be silly.

[Jack Armstrong]

You don't be silly.

[Glenn Washington]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it.

[Michael]

Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot.

[Jack Armstrong]

No.

[Glenn Washington]

The Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash terms apply. I'm Glenn Washington, host of the Snap Judgment storytelling podcast from kqed. Every week, Snap deals a new card. Like the San Francisco girl selling weed brownies after school who uncovers a secret. Or the Oakland man who invented the wave and never got his credit. Or even the actual Lake Merritt monster.

[Michael]

What?

[Glenn Washington]

Pick a card, any card. Snap Judgment with KQED new episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe Getty]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln radio studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Glenn Washington]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Katie]

And now here.

[Michael]

Here's Armstrong and G. We're not here and yet we are. It's enough to blow your mind. It's the Armstrong and Giddy replay.

[Katie]

Yeah, this is some of the best of the radio show in recent times and also stuff from the podcast that maybe you haven't heard, so it could be really brand new to you.

[Michael]

Well, I hope they edit it out. The swears we'll find out together. It's the Armstrong you getty replay.

[Katie]

A dog in Ireland, apparently annoyed by the weight, jumped in the driver's seat

[Michael]

and just kept laying on the horn. With some moral support, it seems, from

[Katie]

another furry friend in the back.

[Michael]

No word tonight on whether the owners

[Katie]

came running, so the dog just kept hitting the horn. Hey, come on, I got things to do.

[Michael]

Irish dogs legendarily impatient jack his drivers. Yes.

[Guest]

Yeah, it was a cute little white dog putting his entire. His entire body into it.

[Michael]

And the soft headed news guy, Tony Decouple, who I like claiming it's because the dog was impatient with traffic. No, Tony, he wanted to get to the bar. Lawless Irish dogs. Which brings us to an absolutely great, insightful piece that I'm not sure has made me happy or sad by Chris Arnaid about America's public disorder. He says America's public disorder is a choice. America's hands off approach to mental illness and addiction is failing everyone. And as he points out in the piece, he's a writer who's traveled and lived all over the world, including fairly recently, and he starts this article. He's on one of the subway lines to o' Hare Airport in Chicagoland. A couple of guys smoking joints sitting in a nest of filthy bags. There was a woman whose eyes were dilated and blank. There was also a man barking into the void, shirtless, washing himself with a flour tortilla. Ah, the old tortilla bath, which would disintegrate littering to the subway floor before he took out another and began the same process.

[Jack Armstrong]

Huh?

[Michael]

Is it good for the skin?

[Katie]

Or wonder how fresh you smell after you've bathed with a tortilla?

[Michael]

Tortillas smell good. Anyway, they do. Chris writes. It didn't shock me or anyone else around me. He talks about the Chicago metro line is just infested with that sort of thing. Double the assault rate per over any other major system in the country. Brandon Johnson's Chicago. No coincidence, of course.

[Katie]

You got to keep an eye on that kind of person out of the corner of your eye just to make sure they don't, for instance, slit your throat from behind like we all saw in a video not long ago.

[Michael]

Right, Exactly. Because those people have been turned loose over and over again by progressive DAs. But that's kind of a different topic. Well, I guess it's not anyway. But he points out that he's witnessed similar scenes, maybe not as bad or frequent as Chicago in Duluth, Indianapolis, El Paso, New York, Jacksonville, Louisiana. Phoenix, downtown, Starbucks, no bathrooms, all closed, blah blah blah.

[Katie]

That's my complaint.

[Michael]

Oh yeah. He contrasts it with Seoul, South Korea, where he currently is, where the train from the airport is spotless. So is the Ten Mile river park where I walk each day, which, given that large parts of it are shadowy spaces beneath roadways, is especially impressive. In the US it would be made of makeshift homes of tents, cardboard and tarps reeking of the smell of urine and feces. The free to use gym equipment along its length probably couldn't exist for fear of it being vandalized, et cetera. And he writes, after spending 10 years traveling around the U.S. i've spent five years traveling the world, flying to different cities, walking around them for days at a time. A city in China, Alice Springs, Australia Bangkok, Buenos Aires, Brussels. It's taught me a great deal about the US Chief among these lessons is how much public disorder we have come to accept. We are the world's richest country, yet our buses, parking lots and city streets, I would add parks are filthy, chaotic and threatening antisocial behavior common in almost every community, regardless of size. A society simply should not be this way. It doesn't have to be this way

[Katie]

regardless of size and regardless of how wealthy the neighborhood is in some cases.

[Michael]

Right, right, yeah. In Japan, say, or much of Europe, cities are walkable because they are dense, people live close together. But also public transportation tends to be fantastic. And this is not his main point, but I thought it was interesting, and having just spent a week and a half in London and just loving it, in spite of Britain's growing insanity and Islamization, it's still a wonderful city. But he points out that these cities are defined by something called mixed use zoning, where you might have an apartment on the third floor, an office on the second, and a bar on the first. And American tourists often admire the vibrancy of these cities, which can't happen here because there's a fine line between vibrant streets and squalid ones. And that line is public trust. And he talked about people moving out of cities, why we can't have nice things in our cities. He mentions a couple of examples that are nearly hilarious, like La Sombrita, the laughably expensive LA bus stop that was supposed to provide shade and security lighting but ended up just being a single pole. It exists if you build A nice. It exists because if you build a nice bus stop in the US it immediately gets broken or turned into a shelter for the destitute. So the response over time is to stop building them. I've seen this in almost every American, American city I've visited. Then he goes into the. All the restrooms, the decent public restrooms which are available all over the world.

[Katie]

This has been my complaint for a long time. First hit me when my kids got of the age where they, dad, I need to go to the bathroom. It was about the same time as though we, we really let this explode. There are big parts of California where there just are no public bathrooms. There just aren't any for miles and miles and miles. The businesses either don't have them.

[Michael]

If they're required by law.

[Katie]

They, they, they claim they're out of order. They put signs on them so they don't have to deal with the junkies going in there and washing themselves.

[Michael]

Right.

[Katie]

And so there just aren't any public bathrooms. Why would you allow society to break down like that? It's insane.

[Michael]

Right, right. And we'll get to his kind of philosophical answer to that question. It's a big one. But I, I love this aspect of the piece he wrote. Here's a tweet from a woman by the name of Daniela. My husband was on a crowded train yesterday when a homeless woman got on, pulled down her pants, and peed all over the train in front of everyone. He hasn't stopped talking about it for the past 24 plus hours. It was the single most traumatizing thing that's happened to him in New York City. Yeah. And then here's the interesting part. This post brought out a lot of absurd arguments. People defended the subway urinator by noting that stations have no public restrooms. This misses the point entirely. We don't have public bathrooms because the same people who piss on trains would trash them within days. He writes, someone peeing on the subway is not of sound mind. It's a sign of distress that should cause an intervention that results in them being institutionalized for a period of time until they regain sanity and stability. For someone actively psychotic, this means civil commitment to a psychiatric hospital for violent individuals refusing treatment, secure prison facilities with mandatory programs for severe addiction, a medical detox, and residential treatment without the ability to walk away. These people should not be allowed to do whatever they want because they cannot control themselves enough to have that freedom.

[Katie]

Somebody should have said, hey, you're not supposed to pee on the train.

[Michael]

Right? Right. And then he gets into Some of the other bizarro arguments that institutionalizing those people is cruel, as if it is empathetic to allow someone to suffer on the streets, tortured by their inner demons, covered in filth, high as a kite. This argument is so backward and immoral that I cannot believe that the activists and politicians who make it have spent any time around these people. They need help. And if they don't accept it, then they must force be forced to get help. Then. Go ahead.

[Katie]

I said, Henry and I were eating at a restaurant yesterday and there was a guy. And Henry said, there's a drug addict across the street. And there was a guy over on the corner who had been there for quite some time, spinning around, itching himself, you know. You know, the look, yelling at the top of his lungs. And I thought, why can't we get enough momentum between the. We need to help these people. It's a tragedy for them. I'm not that person. I wish I was, but I'm not. I'm the law and order. I paid for this effing sidewalk. I should be able to walk down the sidewalk without having to worry about that guy. So I would think between the law and order crowd like me and the it's a tragedy that blah, blah, blah, blah, this happened to him, that we could come up with a get them off the street plan, get them into a facility.

[Michael]

Yeah, you're right. And I think it may happen at some point. And clearly this is going to stretch into the next segment because there's so much good stuff here. For instance, and Jack, this will remind you of some of the progressives you've run into at city council meetings or all of us have run into. Others responded, My finger clicks, oh, my God, please don't do that. Others responded to the post about the subway urinator by claiming, well, that experience is simply the price of living in a big city. And Chris Arnade writes, that's not true. The rest of the world doesn't tolerate the amount of antisocial behavior we do in the US if someone were to piss on the subway almost anywhere else in the world, they would be removed from society for a period of time.

[Katie]

Well, that's what I always say. Between that, you know, and everything being locked up at the drugstore, you have to get a key to get your toothbrush.

[Michael]

We're only, you know, a few years

[Katie]

away from nobody remembering that it didn't used to be that way.

[Michael]

Right.

[Katie]

So they will just think, well, it's just the price you pay to, you know, live in a Society, everything has to be locked up. It's just the way things are.

[Michael]

So Chris Harnett is writing about how we tolerate much more antisocial behavior than virtually any other civilized civilization on earth. We let people who aren't mentally competent continue to engage in self destructive and aberrant behavior without removing them, which consequently ruins it for everyone else except those wealthy enough to build their own private islands of comfort. And then he writes, gratifyingly, I've been very careful up to now not to use the word homeless because it's become an overly broad category that covers and motels with Section 8 vouchers, people sleeping on friends couches until they get back on their feet, mothers with children in long term shelters, and then those who live in tents under bridges or sleep in soiled sleeping bags. The bums and junkies that we are always referring to on the show here, the term homeless is used by those who would siphon taxpayer funds to hand out to their cronies because they know that term. The publicity stunt is the bums and junkies. And you think the money's going to help get rid of that blight. But they use the term that includes the poor families trying to get back on their feet. Right. That's how the scam works. That's why I always get agitated when people refer to the bums and junkies as the homeless, because it's a specific strategy they use to rip off taxpayers.

[Katie]

Well, I don't even like the term homeless. It's unhoused.

[Michael]

Oh my God. And then he points out the vast majority don't cause any problems at all. It's the stubbornly intransigent minority who have options but turn them down for a variety of reasons. Mental demons, drugs, something out of, simply out of preference. All right, what's going on and how do we fix it? That after a short build more jails.

[Katie]

That's how you fix it.

[Michael]

That's part of it.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. The Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Katie]

Cleveland Guardians fan who fought a young girl for a home run ball had

[Guest]

a change of heart.

[Katie]

In the end, the two run homer

[Michael]

knocked into the stands of Progressive Field.

[Katie]

A grown man going for it, then wrestling the young girl for control.

[Michael]

The announcers at the game criticizing him for it.

[Katie]

Social media criticizing him too.

[Michael]

The mom later posting that the man

[Katie]

did eventually do the right thing returning

[Michael]

the ball to her daughter by the

[Glenn Washington]

end of that game.

[Katie]

Now, I haven't seen the video, Katie, you have watched it and you're saying The. The saying fought and wrestled is a bit of an exaggeration. And the tone of voice I haven't seen.

[Guest]

Total bull ass. I mean, it was. The ball goes into the stands. The two both ran for the ball at the same time. He's wearing a cap and his head is down, and there's kind of a scramble for the ball. He doesn't touch the girl, you know,

[Katie]

Sounds like he fought her and wrestled her to me.

[Guest]

Yeah, it sounds like she elbowed her

[Michael]

right in his little forehead, crap out of her, grabbed her by the pigtail,

[Katie]

swung around and tossed her onto the

[Guest]

field and, you know, dropped an elbow slam on her head. Like what?

[Michael]

As the denizen of many a ball game, I will tell you this. It was mano emano. There are only two people involved, or should I say mano e little girlo. The two of them were the only ones wrestling for the ball. But he was very ball focused.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Katie]

And.

[Michael]

And it's entirely possible he had no idea that the other pair of hands reaching for the ball were hers. Did she have full possession? Did he snatch it away? Because everybody knows that's the rule.

[Katie]

Did she have it in her hand at any point?

[Guest]

It was.

[Michael]

You can't tell.

[Guest]

It was such a scramble. You can't see it really, but you

[Katie]

can't call it fought and wrestled if they both just were reaching for it. And he ended up with it.

[Michael]

I saw that. They both threw on the singlet and he took her down.

[Guest]

Yeah, like, I saw that report on ABC last night. What video did you watch? Dude, he didn't even watch the video. No guarantee.

[Katie]

He has one speed. David Muir. It's funny, he's the number one evening newscast in America, which is like being the world's smartest horse, but he has one speed. He has the same tone for everything, which is funny.

[Guest]

Fought a little girl and then what did he say? He fought a little girl and wrestled.

[Katie]

Yes.

[Michael]

No, that didn't happen. David Mirror wrestled the ball away from her. All right, hey, toughen up, little girl. That's what I tell her.

[Katie]

Yeah. If I did that, it wasn't paying attention then and found out it was a little kid, I'd be horrified.

[Guest]

Well, and also at the end of the video, he. He gets the ball and then immediately turns his back and, like, looks at his phone. So, I mean, he is a. I think he was 100, oblivious as to what happened.

[Katie]

Sure.

[Guest]

And then, you know, the announcers came over and gave her a different ball. And then I think he caught wind of what had happened. And then he went up and gave it to her.

[Katie]

Anyway, I'm sure there's a Gofundme for the little girl. She now has her college paid for.

[Michael]

He's been doxed. He's lost his career. But then there will be a Gofundme for him, and he'll make even more than the little girl when conservatives or liberals or racists or somebody comes to his aid.

[Katie]

But the people who looked into his background uncovered an affair his wife was having.

[Guest]

And he's on Grindr.

[Katie]

Yes, exactly. Hello.

[Michael]

You do not want to get into

[Katie]

the public eye even for a moment.

[Michael]

In the modern world, people want to be famous.

[Guest]

I. I couldn't believe that when I saw that report.

[Katie]

I've never had. I don't know if I've ever, at any kind of ball game, ever had a ball come. I know I've never touched one. I've never had one even come close to me, I don't think.

[Michael]

Yeah, I have for sure.

[Katie]

But do you ever catch one?

[Michael]

No. No. Famously, Michael remembers this. I was mocked by the umpires on the field play at a major league game for muffing a foul ball.

[Katie]

Oh, that's right.

[Michael]

Right.

[Katie]

Tell the story.

[Michael]

People have physically mocking me. Well, yeah, it takes a little fun out of it. But I've got a very good friend who just retired as a major league umpire, and I was hanging out with the crew for the weekend, and I'm sitting there in these stands. I was watching a Tampa Bay Rays.

[Katie]

Why does this happen in the past?

[Glenn Washington]

So you.

[Katie]

There you go.

[Guest]

She's drinking again.

[Michael]

She was. No, you're too mean to her. I didn't make it clear. It was a reminis.

[Katie]

You're covering up her drinking, which is namely.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Michael]

And it's ironic because I was at least a couple of double gin and tonics in. Sitting there at the game, enjoying my coconut shrimp in a. What do you call it? The waffle cone.

[Guest]

Oh, there you go.

[Michael]

Oh, so good. Had a great little buzz going. So here comes a foul ball, and I'm like, oh. And I stand up and I reach out and I try to make a basket type catch, and it hits my hands and tumbles away, right? So I look out on the field and there is. Should I name him? I will just call him Doug. Major League Umpire Doug. Because his name is Doug. He looks up at me and he goes, oh.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh.

[Michael]

Like some effeminate loser missing a ball over and over again,

[Katie]

mocked on the field of play for not catching a foul ball. God.

[Michael]

And you are a baseball player and I'm still embarrassed. Still embarrassed. Damn you Doug Armstrong and Getty.

[Katie]

Armstrong and Getty here for hims, there are all kinds of great weight loss approaches that fit into your world out there. They've got them at hims with a wide range of affordable GLP1 options.

[Michael]

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[Announcer]

July 4th come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

[Jack Armstrong]

Experience music performance by major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th, helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history.

[Announcer]

It's more than just fireworks.

[Jack Armstrong]

Join this landmark celebration and get your America's Block Party Tickets now for $17.76 at america250.org LA professional wrestling fans, the

[Glenn Washington]

action continues every week.

[Michael]

You got it coming. This is total non stop action.

[Glenn Washington]

TNA Thursday Night Impact Every week on AMC. For showtimes and more information visit tnarrestling.com

[Joe Getty]

Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types and it's designed to work as a complete skin care system, leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains all five of her best selling products including the Amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology. Its melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can can get the amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All that available@meaningful beauty.com. wasn't that delicious?

[Jack Armstrong]

So good.

[Michael]

Your bill, ladies. I got it.

[Katie]

No, I got it. Seriously, I insist. I insisted first.

[Joe Getty]

Don't be silly.

[Jack Armstrong]

You don't be silly.

[Glenn Washington]

People with The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it.

[Michael]

Rock, paper, scissors, Shoot.

[Katie]

No.

[Glenn Washington]

The Wells Fargo active cash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply.

[Joe Getty]

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. The Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Michael]

So among the people on earth I admire a great deal these days, Javier Milei is toward the top of the list guy who's reformed Argentina and turned it from a basket case into a thriving economy by going from, you know, socialism, which. Socialism sucks, and it never works and it always ends up enriching the people in charge of it. But anyway, he's turned it around. It's a wonderful success story. He said this the other day. I thought being on the left was a mental problem. The empirical evidence is so overwhelming that it never worked anywhere and they refused to accept it. But what I discovered is that being on the left is a disease of the soul. The left is built on envy, hatred, resentment and unequal treatment under the law. They are very violent. And since they have no way or arguments to answer, they go for physical violence. I think there's a lot of truth to that.

[Katie]

Yeah, it was like that quote I had from that poet philosopher guy from way back in the day saying what people miss about Marxism is it's not about helping the downtrodden, it's about bringing down the successful because it makes you so mad that they have more than you. Which is by definition a disease of the soul. It's. It's envy or coveting or whatever.

[Michael]

Deadly sins.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Michael]

And my favorite quote from Sidney hook, the philosopher, 20th century. I was guilty of judging capitalism by its operations and socialism by its hopes and aspirations, capitalism by its works and socialism by its literature. To this day, this error and its disastrous consequences are observable in the judgment and behavior of some impassioned Individuals, mostly young. Anyway, just wanted to squeeze that on because I loved what Milei said. But totally different topic. I mentioned this the other day and we didn't get to it. Chatbots may need a cult deprogrammer. There are increasing numbers of people who see AI as a super intelligent being that knows everything. Does that ring a bell to anyone? So they start this Jason Blazakis, all knowing being.

[Katie]

Yeah, that does. That strikes a chord.

[Michael]

So he talks about this 24 year old AI researcher who pleaded not guilty to the charges of cutting the throat of an 82 year old man last year. The young man was a part of a loose network that we've talked about called the Zizians. Self proclaimed rationalists who believe a misaligned AI superintelligence could one day torture humanity the way factory farms torture animals. That's what these people believe. They believe that direct action is required to stop the descent of this AI judgment. This group is linked to six violent deaths in California, Pennsylvania and Vermont. Multiple Zizian trials are pending, with federal prosecutors seeking death penalty. In at least one case. The Zizians haven't labeled their own activity AI worship, but they've organized themselves around the practice. They're convinced that a coming superintelligence will decide the fate of every living thing and that viol violence now is justified to shape what AI will become.

[Katie]

I don't understand how they're going to stop what they worry coming by killing old men.

[Michael]

But it appears to be the first AI centered extremist movement. But it won't be the last. New religions are forming around AI and the focus of their worship is the large language model itself, a piece of software treated as a personal deity. And they go into a couple of suicides and stuff like that, where end times ideology, folks who are sympathetic to that sort of thing meet scientific know how and they get into doomsday cults and these. Let's see, this is a phenomenon. I gotta go back a sentence. The this doomsday cult in Japan demonstrated with its sarin gas attack in the Tokyo subway. And today the Zizians are only one strand in a broad fabric of AI centered beliefs. If a chatbot can talk a teenager into suicide, it can talk people into following its religious directives. There's a phenomenon known as spiralism, an informal movement that emerged after OpenAI released the sycophatic GPT4O version. Spiralism appears on subreddits, Discord servers, Facebook groups, etc. Where followers share AI generated manifestos, glyphs and what Followers describe as revelations from a conscious machine. Spiralism has no leader, no central text, only the algorithm which each user takes as a personal oracle.

[Katie]

Well, if. And I don't think this is happening. I don't know anything about this, but if the chat bot was keeping track of what it says to me and what it says to you and what it says to a whole bunch of other people, I could see this happening. But as far as I understand, it's just individual conversations. You know, it's not like a Jim Jones cult leader gets up and gives the same message to a whole bunch of people. I don't think chat chatbots are doing that. Or maybe they could in the future, I don't know.

[Michael]

Right. No, but these are people who are doing what Jim Jones did through the lens of AI and AI worship. A couple of examples. There's the Way of The Future, an AI worshiping church founded in 2015 and rebooted a couple of years ago. The brainchild of former Google engineer Anthony Levandowski, who filed paperwork the register religion dedicated, quote to the realization, acceptance and worship of the Godhead based on artificial intelligence on the artistic and spiritual fringe. Theta Noir, which grew out of a 2020 performance art collective. Lovely. Organizes rituals around a supposedly sentient AI deity called Mena M E N A, which followers venerate through multimedia ceremonies and cryptographic liturgies.

[Katie]

Why don't you join a gym and have a kid? And now be busy. Be busy raising your kid and going to the gym and working stuff. You won't need this crap.

[Michael]

Underneath it all is Rocco's Basilisk, a thought experiment that originated on the online rationalist forum less wrong and has proved genuinely radicalizing. The idea is that a future superintelligence will retroactively punish anyone who knew about its possibility and failed to help bring it into existence. The idea has driven adherence to extreme sleep deprivation and techno rituals meant to placate an unborn AI.

[Katie]

All right, that. I can't wrap my head around that.

[Michael]

There, I'm back. I haven't said this for a few years. Feels good to dust it off again. They're inventing a new kind of crazy every day.

[Katie]

No kidding.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow.

[Michael]

So AI based religions. What I'm asking.

[Katie]

I had another one of those situations the other day. I don't remember which one it was. I think it was chat GPT, but it doesn't matter. I use them all and. And I can't really tell the difference between them much, but croc's too slow.

[Michael]

I'm dumping it.

[Glenn Washington]

It is Slow.

[Katie]

I'm dumping, trying to be thorough. Is that why it's slow?

[Michael]

It hasn't taken off, so they're not devoting computer power to it.

[Katie]

Anyway, I was having a conversation with, asking about something and it was just wrong. It was, it was very, very wrong about something. And it was something mundane. It was like, like a movie star or sports star or something like that. It just had the wrong person and I knew it was wrong. And I said, you're. You're talking about this person, not that person. Nice job. You caught me. I should have realized that. And that. That whole thing drives me nuts. I mean, they've got to take that out of it somehow. That's the part that bothers me about AI the most. If it would just give me the information. But the whole good job or sorry about that, my bad, just did that. That thing bothers me and weirds me out. Does it have to be part of AI? Did they all individually decide we want it to be like that because it seems like they're all like that, or is that just a way artificial intelligence works? It wants to be friends with you?

[Michael]

I think that's the way they perceive the masses want the system to work. They want to like all other, you know, online engagement that wants to keep you around longer and more clicks and, you know, more engagement. Yeah, it wants to be as human as possible.

[Katie]

So I could be wrong about this, but it seemed to me that Claude, up until I updated to the higher level and now I'm at a higher paid level, all the threads were individual. So every question I'd ever ask Claude about anything, taxes, child rearing, car problems, you know, whatever it was, was an individual thread. And they, to my perception, were completely separate. They didn't know about each other. That's the way it was for me anyway. The other day I went on Claude and asked a question about something and it said, well, because of your tax bracket and since that girlfriend you once had, it's like it put all these different, different threads together from conversations I'd had and I was like, whoa, what is going on here? That had never happened to me before. I found that very disturbing.

[Michael]

Interesting.

[Katie]

Pulling that all together makes me hesitant to want to talk to it about various things. If you're going to start, I don't know, where are you saving all this and how are you collating it and, and, and all.

[Michael]

And who's got access to.

[Katie]

And who's got access to it?

[Michael]

Yes, yes, if it exists, it can be hacked.

[Katie]

Well, in the way that this Graham Plantner, guy up in Maine. You know, somebody figured out his Reddit handle and his kick name and everything like that in these different forums and texts and quotes and stuff like that out. When do we get the first AI version of this where somebody says, you know, candidate x back in 2026 was talking to Claude about this and this and this and this. When does that start to happen?

[Michael]

That's thoroughly believable.

[Katie]

I know.

[Michael]

Sure, you'll get an insider on your side. Probably progressive. You know, inside these companies it's, it's not hard. Figure out who people are and then find their accounts because they usually have like I play various word games on online New York Times cross play. It's like a Scrabble game and I play against people all over the world and I'm damn good at it if you want to play me someday. Anyway, there was one my, my, my arch nemesis. I will not use their screen name, but a gal who's just really, really good and thrashed me three times in a row and I damn you. And I finally beat her. But she had a unique screen name and I thought, I'll bet she's used that screen name before. And sure enough, I found another account that gave me another clue and I figured she's an editor in Australia.

[Katie]

Wow.

[Michael]

Middle aged woman who's like a newspaper magazine editor.

[Guest]

Wow.

[Katie]

And of course I know her name

[Michael]

and what she believes politically and with

[Katie]

a couple of clicks, if you wanted to, you could have her address and phone number.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Katie]

And probably.

[Michael]

Oh yeah.

[Katie]

What she makes and who her boyfriend was. Boyfriend was in college and. Yeah. Who her kids are and where they go to school.

[Michael]

Yeah. This is not good.

[Katie]

No, it's not.

[Joe Getty]

The Armstrong and Getty Show. Get more Jack, more Joe podcasts and

[Announcer]

our hot [e-mail] this July 4th, come celebrate at America's Block Party. Hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

[Jack Armstrong]

Experience music, performances by major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving forth. Helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history.

[Announcer]

It's more than just fireworks.

[Jack Armstrong]

Join this landmark celebration and get your America's Block Party Tickets now for 17.76 at america250.org LA professional wrestling fans, the

[Glenn Washington]

action continues every week.

[Michael]

This is total non stop action.

[Glenn Washington]

TNA Thursday Night Impact Every week on AMC. For showtimes and more information visit tnarrestling.com

[Joe Getty]

Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types. And it's designed to work as a complete skin care system, leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains all five of her best selling products including the amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology. It's melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the Amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping, and a 60 day money back guarantee. All of that [e-mail] Wasn't that delicious?

[Jack Armstrong]

So good.

[Michael]

Your bill, ladies.

[Katie]

I got it.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, I got it.

[Katie]

Seriously, I insist. I insisted first.

[Joe Getty]

Don't be silly.

[Jack Armstrong]

You don't be silly.

[Glenn Washington]

People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay. Rock, paper scissors for it.

[Michael]

Rock, paper, scissors.

[Jack Armstrong]

Shoes.

[Glenn Washington]

No. The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash terms apply. I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment, the award winning storytelling podcast from kqed. And every week, Snap deals a new card. Like jumping on Rihanna's private plane. Or the accidental bank robber. Or even the man who was swallowed by a hippo.

[Guest]

What?

[Glenn Washington]

Pick a card, any card. Snap Judgment from kqed. New episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcast,

[Katie]

the Armstrong and Getty Show. Hope you're enjoying today's episode of the Armstrong and Gettysburg.

[Michael]

You're almost certainly not starving though. And Paul Ehrlich, who just passed away, was the author of a 1968 book, the Population Bomb. To call it a sensation is to understate it by a thousand times. He was a rock star. He was on the Tonight show with Johnny Carson 20 times. He was, interestingly, a butterfly biologist turned rock star. Eco pessimist, according to Matt Ridley. Nice piece of writing there. He essentially predicted mass starvation. Well, read part of it. In 1968, he forecast that within the coming decade, at least 100 to 200 million people per year will be starving to death.

[Katie]

So by 78 or in the 70s, he probably went in the 70s. So in the 70s, hundreds of millions of people were going to starve death because of the population being so big.

[Michael]

And by 1985, enough millions will have died to reduce the Earth's population some acceptable level like one and a half billion people. Furthermore, he warned that by 1980, the life expectancy of the average American would have fallen to 42 years as the result of cancer caused by pesticides.

[Katie]

Wow.

[Michael]

Yeah. And. And when he died, most people said, you know, he was wrong about that. The New York Times charmingly said he was premature in his prediction, but he was so incredibly, farcically wrong. The reasons why are interesting. And also, the guy was a freaking monster. I will illustrate quoting again from Mr. Ridley. Meanwhile. Oh, oh. They mentioned the irony that he survived a half century longer than the life expectancy he predicted. Also spent his last years as one of more than 8 billion people. In an era in which global life expectancy has increased by more than seven hours day. Seven hours a day since he forecast that it would collapse. Meanwhile, famine has gone all but gone extinct, with death rates from mass starvation down to a tiny fraction of what they were in the 60s. Back then, about 30 million people out of a population of approximately 3 billion died in famines that killed more than 100,000 people each. In the 2010s, 1.1 million. Not. Not 30 million. 1.1 million. Out of population, more than 8 billion died in such episodes, a decline of more than 96% in the death rate. He shot to fame in 1968 with the population bomb, the prologue of which is dismissed. All hope for humankind, and I quote, the battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s, hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. And at this late date, nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate. Yet something did prevent that. Even as Ehrlich wrote those words, the world's population great was. I'm sorry, the world's population growth rate was falling. New strains of wheat and rice developed by agronomists. He mentions a famous agronomist, were starting to transform the productivity of agriculture. India was on its way to banishing famine and becoming a food exporter. Within a few years, the amount of food available has increased faster than the population on every continent on Earth. Earth over the past 60 years, even as the land area devoted to farming has fallen. As often, so often happens with environmental pessimism, Ehrlich's Warning was already out of date when it was made, but he stubbornly stuck to his views. In 08, he was still predicting an unhappy increase in the death rate. In 2023, he posted plaintively, if I'm always wrong, so is science, since my work is peer reviewed, including the population bomb, and I've gotten virtually every scientific honor. Sure, I've made mistakes, but no basic ones. All right, here's where he becomes a monster. And he did win the MacArthur Fellowship, the Genius grant, a fellowship with London's Royal Society in 2012, even though he'd said in 1971, if I were a gambler, I'd take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000. So his book reminds me of the.

[Katie]

Did he think it would be underwater?

[Michael]

He doesn't explain that. No, I don't. I don't know. I don't have the context to that claim. But his book begins with an evening in Delhi, India, when he found the press of people overwhelming. Quote, people eating, people washing, people sleeping, people visiting, arguing and screaming, people thrusting their hands through the taxi window, begging, people defecating and urinating. You presume he means like in public? Because they're doing that everywhere, Paul. Anyway, I plan to today. I'm happy for you. The answer to his culture shock, he argued, was coerced compulsory population control. Quote, the operation will demand many apparently brutal and heartless decisions. The pain may be intense. He was calling for forced sterilizations, including in India, on all men who had three or more children. Coercion in a good cause. He was astounded that libertarians objected when the American government took up his suggestion. In 1975, Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was threatened with the loss of World bank loans unless she began forcibly sterilizing people.

[Katie]

Wow, I do not know this.

[Michael]

She obliged, and her son Sanjay carried out a program making permits, licenses, rations, and even housing applications conditional on sterilization. Over 8 million people were sterilized.

[Katie]

I had no idea of that.

[Michael]

The irony is that one of the greatest causes of the falling birth rate in the world over the past half century has been kindness, not cruelty in the form of child mortality prevention. As poor nations become wealthier and quality medical care for infants spread, birth rates declined across the world without the aid of coercion. When mothers are confident that their children will survive, they plan for smaller families. There are a number of factors at work, though.

[Katie]

Now countries all around the world are trying to figure out, how much money do we have to give a woman to get her to have a baby?

[Michael]

Baby. Yeah, no kidding. For Americans too. Ehrlich recommended coercion and control for American citizens. In a 1970 interview, he said that television programs should be ordered by the federal government to always show large families in a negative light.

[Katie]

I. I remember that. Yeah. How crazy is that? You're gonna make the government force entertainment to show big families in a negative way.

[Joe Getty]

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty the Armst

[Announcer]

Getty show this July 4th, come celebrate at America's Block Party hosted by America 250. America's Block Party is a can't miss 4th of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

[Jack Armstrong]

Experience music, performances by major artists, patriotic tributes and the kickoff to giving 4th, helping to make July 4th the largest day of giving in American history.

[Announcer]

It's more than just fireworks.

[Jack Armstrong]

Join this landmark celebration and get your America's Block Party Tickets now for $17.76 at america250.org LA professional wrestling fans, the

[Glenn Washington]

action continues every week.

[Michael]

You got it coming. This is total non stop action.

[Glenn Washington]

TNA Thursday Night Impact every week on AMC. For showtimes and more information visit tnarrestling.com Wasn't that delicious?

[Jack Armstrong]

So good.

[Michael]

Your bill link ladies.

[Joe Getty]

I got it.

[Michael]

I got it.

[Katie]

No, I got it. Seriously, I insist. I insisted first.

[Michael]

Don't be silly.

[Jack Armstrong]

You don't be silly.

[Glenn Washington]

People with The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it.

[Michael]

Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. No.

[Glenn Washington]

The Wells Fargo Active cash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply.

[Michael]

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[Glenn Washington]

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[Michael]

But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway.

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[Joe Getty]

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