The A&G Replay Wednesday Hour One

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: The A&G Replay Wednesday Hour One
Date: July 1, 2026
Host: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty
Special Guest: Sarah Isger (Legal Analyst, Author)
Podcast Theme: Rapid change in media and culture, the influencer economy, social media’s impact, evolving political dynamics, and a candid, myth-busting look at the Supreme Court.

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Episode Overview

This energetic replay episode dives into the shifting landscape of both traditional and new media, exploring themes like the rise of influencers, music trends overlooked by older generations, and how our understanding of fame, advertising, and content creation is evolving. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty banter about consumer culture, viral music genres, and the booming creator economy before welcoming legal analyst and author Sarah Isger for an enlightening discussion on the Supreme Court’s true role and reputation in American politics. The hour wraps up with a lighter conversation about classic American food challenges.

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Key Discussion Points & Memorable Segments

1. Fast Food, Changing Culture, and Viral Media

Timestamps: 01:55–06:23

• Joe recounts being surprised by the expanding menus and prices at Wendy’s.
  • "$8 for a single with cheese, by the way. $8 dollars for a little redheaded girl..." — Joe Getty, [02:19]
• The conversation pivots to broader social change, pointing out the generational gap in media consumption and values.
  • "Astounding changes in what is big media and how quaint a lot of old media is in comparison." — Co-host, [02:41]

The "Funk" Music Phenomenon

• Introduction to the massive influence of background music genres like "funk/phonk" in social media videos (e.g., the artist SLXUGHter).
  • "In the last month... the music artist with the largest audience across all YouTube platforms wasn't Bad Bunny or Taylor Swift. It was Slaughter. Spelled S L X U G H T E R." — Co-host, [03:52]
• The financial realities for young digital creators:
  • "A company that represents these people... have paid out over $140 million to their creators on their roster over the past five years who make this background music for videos." — Co-host, [05:45]

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2. The $250 Billion Influencer Economy

Timestamps: 06:23–14:17

• Massive growth—$1.7B in 2015 to $32B last year according to Goldman Sachs research ([08:36]).
• Personal anecdotes on the shift in advertising power, as influencers replace traditional celebrities in major brand campaigns.
  • "They don't have a TV show or a movie or anything. They just have a YouTube. That's enough now for a Target ad." — Joe Getty, [07:32]
• Armstrong & Getty wryly dissect the questionable authenticity of influencer endorsements and how savvy younger audiences approach sponsored content.
  • "If we did a show that was 100% about what are the coolest auto accessories these days... that's where you gotta advertise. So it's kind of micro directed advertising." — Co-host, [11:03]
  • "A lot of them... make it clear that they're not [being paid]. Those seem to be the people that have the most followers." — Joe Getty, [12:10]
• The proliferation of content and the drive of younger generations to become viral creators themselves:
  • "Every kid, like both my kids, are making their run at trying to... post stuff and have it catch on. How could you be a young person and not at least try that?" — Joe Getty, [14:17]

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3. Protest Culture & The Kentucky Meat Shower

Timestamps: 15:00–18:28

• Satirical treatment of culture war protests, with soundbites from a Philadelphia protest:
  • "You hate this imperialist country. Why don't you leave?" — Bystander (paraphrased), [15:29]
  • "That is some trolling... fake terrorist effing cosplaying children. Well said, sir. Well said." — Co-host, [15:47]
• A quirky segment on the Kentucky Meat Shower, a real historical curiosity turned local festival, pokes fun at odd American traditions.
  • "Chunks of meat began falling from the sky... Scientists got involved, examined samples. Seven samples were examined by scientists who confirmed that several were lung tissue, some were muscular tissue, two were cartilage." — Joe Getty, [17:10–17:35]
  • "Apparently vultures vomit occasionally... 200 pounds of unidentified meat fell in one little spot." — Joe Getty, [18:04]

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4. Sarah Isger: Busting Supreme Court Myths

Timestamps: 19:47–35:07

Isger on Her Book & the Court’s True Role

• Sarah Isger introduces her book, Last Branch Standing (20:07), with the thesis that the Supreme Court is often misunderstood as omnipotent, when in fact its power is limited and the real responsibility lies with Congress and, ultimately, the people.
  • "It is never the last word in any of these fights that we're having... it is always up to the American people." — Sarah Isger, [21:07]

How Politics Shifted Away from Legislation

• Explains the shift to executive orders and how it undermined Congress’s willingness to legislate:
  • "During the second term of the Obama administration... he decided to do executive orders to implement legislation... But it taught Congress that they don't need to do legislation anymore." — Sarah Isger, [22:22]

The Reality of a "Partisan" Supreme Court

• Thorough statistical rebuttal to claims of partisanship:
  • "Six-three partisan votes accounted for... 9% of the cases. If that's how you're predicting the outcome of Supreme Court cases, you're going to get it wrong more than 90% of the time." — Sarah Isger, [24:45]
  • Trump's cases at the Supreme Court: "He lost more than any president in United States history. He's the first president to ever be below 50% at the Supreme Court." — Sarah Isger, [25:33]

Declining Trust in Institutions

• Isger warns that increasing partisanship in judicial appointments and forum shopping are real risks if left unchecked:
  • "Our courts tend to be a lagging indicator of our politics... Getting rid of the filibuster means that we now appoint judges who didn't get any votes from the other side of the aisle... that's going to breed more extreme judges." — Sarah Isger, [28:12]

The Truth About Issue Polling

• Sharp critique of issue polling’s validity:
  • "When we do candidate polling, we can actually judge whether the poll was any good because we have an election day. ...We can never find out whether that poll was a good poll or a bad poll. There's no way to grade it. So that's a big problem." — Sarah Isger, [33:08]
  • "Oftentimes the question you're asking people isn't the question they think they're answering..." — Sarah Isger, [33:26]

Notable Quotes

• "I sort of turn into like a Rain man type figure where I start saying that that's not a real poll. That's not a real poll. Don't do it. That's not a real poll." — Sarah Isger, [34:59]

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5. Classic American Eating Challenges

Timestamps: 35:28–37:43

• Joe and his son covet taking on famous eating feats across America—like the Big Texan Steak Ranch's 72-ounce steak challenge in Amarillo.
  • "It has a 12 percent completion rate... You get your picture up on the wall." — Joe Getty, [36:53]
  • "Can you imagine? I mean both ends, right?" — Co-host, joking about eating 180 oysters, [37:43]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• "$8 for a single with cheese, by the way. $8 dollars for a little redheaded girl..." — Joe Getty [02:19]
• "If we did a show that was 100% about what are the coolest auto accessories these days... that's where you gotta advertise." — Co-host [11:03]
• "The only constant is change, Jack. Change. And people being a-holes. That seems to be a constant as well." — Co-host [14:32]
• "The Supreme Court is overturning fewer precedents than any court in modern history. This court is taking fewer cases than any court in recent history. So no matter what way you look at it, the data just isn't there for the people who want to argue that this is a partisan court." — Sarah Isger [25:33]
• "The good news is that the Supreme Court is still more popular than the president or Congress." — Sarah Isger [28:12]
• "Oftentimes the question you're asking people isn't the question they think they're answering..." — Sarah Isger [33:26]
• "That's not a real poll. That's not a real poll. Don't do it. That's not a real poll." — Sarah Isger [34:59]

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Episode Takeaways

• Evolving Media: The new economy is dominated by micro-targeted influencers, viral music, and immense content creation, reshaping American culture and advertising.
• Supreme Court Reality: Sarah Isger debunks the notion of the Court as simply another partisan battleground, backing claims with hard data.
• Skepticism for Issue Polls: View reported polling on complex topics with a healthy dose of skepticism.
• Democracy is Messy by Design: The real work of democracy still lies with legislatures and citizens, not with judges or presidents acting unilaterally.
• Lighthearted Close: As always, Armstrong & Getty finish with humor, this time drooling over legendary food challenges.

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This episode is a lively, thoughtful blend of current culture, sharp media critique, incisive political analysis, and plenty of characteristic Armstrong & Getty wit. Essential for anyone trying to understand the wild pace of change in American media, politics, and culture—delivered with trademark irreverence.

Transcript

[Jack Armstrong]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Newt Gingrich]

Guaranteed Human on New Troy podcast. We're celebrating America's 250th birthday and I asked my guests how they're spending their 4th of July. Brett Baer.

[Joe Getty]

I will be working. I'll be in Washington because it's a big, big day.

[Newt Gingrich]

Jared Isaacman.

[Joe Getty]

I plan to be flying in an F5 fighter jet painted in Freedom 250 colors, along with four other fighter jets flying over the nation's capital.

[Newt Gingrich]

Listen to new on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Joe Getty]

All new drinks are now at McDonald's

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

with refreshers like the Strawberry Watermelon Refresher

[Joe Getty]

and the Mango Pineapple Refresher with popping boba.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

To crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry

[Joe Getty]

Blast with berry flavors and cold foam.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire six?

[Joe Getty]

All new drinks are here now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine.

[Jack Armstrong]

And now, broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln radio studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Enough.

[Joe Getty]

Here's Armstrong and get it.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

We're not here and yet we are. It's enough to blow your mind. It's the Armstrong and Giddy Replay.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, this is some of the best of the radio show in recent times and also stuff from the podcast that maybe you haven't heard yet, so it could be really brand new to you.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Well, I hope they edit it out to swears we'll find out together. It's the Armstrong and Getty Replay.

[Joe Getty]

I took the kids to Wendy's last. I think it a whole bunch of new products they didn't have the last time I was at Wendy's. When did this happen?

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Unhappy by that.

[Joe Getty]

Well, yeah, I think they just. I knew it.

[Newt Gingrich]

I don't know.

[Joe Getty]

I walked in and all of a sudden they got burritos and. Wait, what? Yeah, they got Mexican food and a fish sandwich and just all kinds of stuff they've never had before.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Wendy, I thought I knew you.

[Joe Getty]

I know. $8 for a single with cheese, by the way. $8 dollars for a little redheaded girl

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

up on a stripper pole or something selling burritos.

[Joe Getty]

Very similar.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Wow, shocking stuff.

[Joe Getty]

It looks like Trump's had it with Kirsty Noem and might be looking to get somebody else. We can talk more about that later.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Yeah, Ice Barbie, soon to be gone. I mean, you saw that one coming. So I guess our theme this segment is the absolutely astonishing changes in what is big media and how quaint a lot of old media is in comparison. Now that's not to say there isn't great content.

[Joe Getty]

And I think how out of touch all of us over a certain age are, whether we want to be or not. We just still have in our heads that certain Alphabet networks and newspapers are a big deal. They aren't. They just aren't.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Yeah. Now I want to make it clear that I don't think the lowest common denominator is something to be sought after unless you're just looking to make a ton of money. But if you're making if you're looking to make a ton of money, then the market is not nearly what you think it is if you're past a certain age. To wit, in the last month and yes, Jack, I am re bringing up the question of funk music.

[Joe Getty]

P H O N K Funk.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Yes sir. And yes, I do enjoy saying it's a little funk.

[Joe Getty]

Clearly you do.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Where's the melody anyway? That is, it started, I think in I can't remember one of your southern cities, but in last month, the music artist with the largest audience across all YouTube platforms wasn't bad Bunny or Taylor Swift. It was Slaughter. Spelled S L X U G H T E R. Because apparently in funk you have to change one of the letters in your name to a different letter or a number or something. Like every single person they mentioned does that.

[Joe Getty]

I wouldn't have known how to pronounce it.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Well, you see it in print. Unless he calls it slickster, but I doubt it. The term probably doesn't sound familiar funk, but anyone who's spent any time on social media in the past few years has almost certainly listened to it. Maybe it's better to say heard it, because the overwhelming majority of people who consume funk don't recognize it as a genre, let alone actively choose it. But it's constantly playing in the background during YouTube shorts, TikTok or Instagram Reels. It can sound like electronic dance music. Also hip hop, trap funk, or mix of all those things. Like I know what those sub genres are. It can accompany dance clips, gaming montages, fan edits, workout content, sports highlights, motivational clips, and anything aiming to convey high energy vibes. Who cares? You're saying to yourself, well, the people who crank this stuff out, who are desperate for their track to become the go to on YouTube backup for the aforementioned, you know, genres of videos are making. For instance, this one guy who I've never heard of in my life and whose name I've forgotten already, has gotten $5 million already from a track he produced probably in two and a half hours in his basement. And then here's this other. Oh yeah, oh I'm sorry, here's scrolled past it somebody Henson who goes with some wacky moniker earned. He won't say how much he earned from Sahara which was the hot track at one point, but he says, I have some guys that have made over $5 million from their music. Here's a company that represents these people. They've paid out over $140 million to their creators on their roster over the past five years who make this background music for videos because everybody gets paid.

[Joe Getty]

That sounds like to play that again, Michael. Carol Baskin, her husband to Tigers.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Doesn't it sound like that what's happening? Carol Baskin Yeah, it really does. It really does. So you got that going on. And then this I think is every bit as significant in the Wall Street Journal Journal the power brokers behind the $250 billion influencer economy. $250 billion.

[Joe Getty]

I was talking about this the other day. We were at Target and we were in the like shampoo section and they had a typical kind of Target ad there, just a picture on the end cap with a couple of people in shampoo. And I thought, well it's probably just you know, random people, good looking people holding the shampoo bottle. And my son was like oh my God, I can't believe DJ so and so is blah blah blah is some YouTube people that are a big enough deal to put on the in cap ad at the Target to sell the shampoo I'd never even heard of. They don't have a TV show or a movie or anything. They just haven't.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

They don't have the time. They wouldn't waste their time doing that, right?

[Joe Getty]

A movie, right?

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

I can't take the cut and pay they would say. So this article, the big picture at the beginning of it is attractive 35 ish gal sitting at a desk but perched on a milk crate on the desk it's just so on the nose is a bleach blonde pixie sunglass wearing, vibey 20 something influencer girl. Because of course you'd be sitting on a milk crate on your agent's desk. Something I can promise you I've never done in my long career. Anyway, it's Ali Berman who's the co head of United Talent Agencies Creators division with podcaster and entrepreneur Emma Chamberlain, a UTA client. They actually start the article with Kate Bartlett, a 24 year old influencer who has 1.6 million TikTok followers and they're having a big meeting in Hollywood, pitching business ideas for the year ahead. Would she be interested in getting a teaching certificate so she could lead a course on influencing? What about landing an editorial director position at a magazine? Or launching an accessories line or taking a defunct fashion TV show, buying the name of it and reviving it and blah blah, blah. But they mention there is practically no limit to what influencers can do and how much they can earn for it. They're starring in Netflix series, launching pop careers, running brands that rake in nine figures a year. Folks, nine figures is $100 million or more. Those at the top of their game are now up against actors and athletes for the biggest endorsement deals. They've appeared in super bowl commercials, staked out lucrative investment opportun, scored ambassadorships for some of the biggest companies in the world. In 2015, influencer marketing was $1.7 billion globally. 1.7. Last year it was 32 billion. When Goldman Sachs Global Investment Research last sized up the creator economy as a whole, in 2023, it put it at 250 billion.

[Joe Getty]

So what I always think about this as somebody that's in the business,

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

how

[Joe Getty]

are there enough people watching? I mean, there's so many different things to look at when you split up all the people. It's amazing to me that they still get enough views and everything like that to earn that kind of money. But I guess that's where you get to the stat of the average young person spends nine hours a day on TikTok or whatever. If you spend that much time on there, I suppose you see all this

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

content and they're spitting. They're splitting up a smallish percentage of everybody on the effing earth who is watching this stuff.

[Joe Getty]

But I mean, think about when we were young and which is, you know, might as well be at 500 years ago is 50 years ago in terms of, or 40 years ago in terms of how much things have changed. But God, I took in on the big nights, I'd taken an hour because we'd watch two 30 minute sitcoms at night when I was a kid. The rest of the nights may be 30 minutes, certainly not hours and hours and hours. So people consume so much more media now.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Than anybody ever did.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Right. Yeah. And, and again, because it's in your hand, it's everybody on effing earth. This gal who runs that department of the, the big talent agency, Cutie, by

[Jack Armstrong]

the way,

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

she's the big swinging Richard at that company now. It ain't movie stars, it's influencers on the tickety tock on the Instagram, partly because you can custom fit your ad campaigns to, you know, that crowd and their interests. And man, it is 100%. I mean, like, advertising on the Armstrong and Getty show is incredibly effective. I mean, efficient. You get more than your money's worth. And if you're not advertising us, you're a fool. But if we did a Show that was 100% about what are the coolest auto accessories these days? If you're an auto parts person or a customization person, that's where you gotta advertise. So it's kind of micro directed advertising. And the truth is, and young people are so cynical these days and should be, it would bother me knowing that, all right, the person who's gushing to me about these guitar strings, for instance, to cite one of my hobbies, they're obviously getting paid. I can't trust that they're being sincere at all.

[Joe Getty]

A lot of them, because I watch a lot of this sort of stuff, is they make it clear that they're not. Those seem to be the people that have the most followers. And it works out pretty well because they, they say, I do not, I do not get paid by anybody. They're letting me use this guitar or motorcycle or whatever it is, I got to send it back. But they get, they get more followers that way because more people believe them. But then the product people have more reason to let them use the stuff because there's so many eyeballs on the review. So it kind of works both ways.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

You know, you're, you're right, but at the same time, you're a senile old fool. And here's why. I'm sorry, that, that was, that was unnecessarily hard. No, the young people don't have that standard. From what I've read, they see Kylie Jenner saying, oh my God, look at this. It's so amazing. Oh, I love this stuff. Look how I look. And they think, bingo, gringo, I'm buying it. But like I said, they don't expect neutrality.

[Joe Getty]

I guess I just. Again, I can't believe there's a big enough audience for all this, but there clearly is some. I'm looking at one particular motorcycle I want to buy. I was looking at reviews, different people who review this very product on YouTube. I've gone through, I don't know, 20 different people that each have millions of followers that do this sort of thing. I mean, they're making their entire livings off of doing this. And there's so many of them. How could there be that many of them? I can understand how there'd be one or two, but I can't understand how there would be hundreds of people that can make their living reviewing the latest iPhone or salad dressing or whatever the hell it is.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Yes, but the same way there are, there are hundreds of successful podcasts.

[Joe Getty]

I think it's part of it though. I keep getting back to how much content we all take in. It's just a stunning amount, especially young people.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Yeah, agreed, but that's where the, that's where the economy is. That's where the media economy is producing funk and hoping somebody likes your funky track and. Or being a pixie haired 22 year old influencer inexplicably squatting on your agent's desk.

[Joe Getty]

And of course then every kid, like both my kids, are making their run at trying to, you know, post stuff and have it catch on. How could you be a young person and not at least try that? Be impossible? I would have guaranteed I would have.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

The only constant is change, Jack. Change. And people being a holes. That seems to be a constant as well.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

The Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. The Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Joe Getty]

Why am I not in Bath County, Kentucky today? To celebrate the meat shower with everybody else. It's an annual festival. We'll talk about that coming up.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Sounds like something that was outlawed even in San Francisco. We now bring you to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where a bunch of woke protesters are yelling about the attack on Iran. And they are confronted by a fella who actually from the Middle East. Why don't you leave America?

[Joe Getty]

You hate this imperialist country. Why don't you leave?

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

When Iranian women were raped and murdered

[Joe Getty]

by their government, none of you said you're fake activists. Why don't you speak about the 50,000

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Iranians who were killed? You fake terrorist cop, you.

[Joe Getty]

Because none of you are showered. That is some trolling

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

fake terrorist effing cosplaying children. Well said, sir. Well said.

[Joe Getty]

What is the Kentucky meat shower? So happened 150 years ago today they have an annual festival there in the county where it occurred.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

And I asked my wife for the Kentucky meat shower and she didn't speak to me for a week.

[Joe Getty]

You. You date Kentucky meat shower. You don't marry the Kentucky meat. That's horrible.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

It's terrible.

[Joe Getty]

Katie's staying out of it. She's gonna stay out of it. So I'm from rural America, so you, you come up with Any reason for your festival? Like, I lived near Cocker City, Kansas, where they have the world's largest ball of twine. And every year you have a big giant party with bands and you drink beer and they add some more twined and ball to make it bigger. I mean, you just come up with these things. In Bath County, Kentucky, they have the Kentucky Meat shower festival. It's 150th anniversary today when on this day, March 3, 1876, chunks of meat began falling from the sky for several minutes around 11am covering a 100 by 50 yard area in chunks and chunks and chunks of meat. It was a sign.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

I don't know what's happening exactly, but something has gone terribly wrong.

[Joe Getty]

This poor woman was sitting there, she's not good, washing clothes or something like that, when chunks of meat, some of them as large as her hand, began tumbling from the sky.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

People want the beef.

[Joe Getty]

The story went national fast as people tried to figure out why chunks of meat fell from the sky in that little part of Kentucky. Scientists got involved, examined samples. Seven samples were examined by scientists who confirmed that several were lung tissue, some were muscular tissue, two were cartilage. Several people actually tasted it and said it tasted like mutton or venison. Ah, this is the sort of thing you did in the 1870s, apparently, where if a chunk of meat fell out of the sky, you'd say, oh, let me taste that.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

I wonder what that is.

[Joe Getty]

Only one way to figure it out, Clem. Anyway, apparently vultures vomit occasionally. And for whatever reason, a big flock of vultures vomited up all the dead food that they had eaten up. And at the same time, 200 pounds of unidentified meat fell in one little spot. And that's the Kentucky Meat Shower. And that's why they have a festival every.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Please send the bill for detailing your car after you vomit in it to Jack Armstrong. He'll be happy to pay that bill.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong. And get.

[Newt Gingrich]

This is Newt Gingrich, former Speaker of the House and a proud American citizen. I'm celebrating America's 250th birthday on my podcast, Newt's World, with 15 special episodes. And I've got some great guests. Walter Isaacson, Jonathan Turley, Brett Baer.

[Joe Getty]

I will be working because it's a big, big day. I'll be in Washington and have all kinds of coverage through the day of America.

[Jack Armstrong]

250.

[Newt Gingrich]

Rachel Campos Duffy.

[Jack Armstrong]

There's nothing like American music. We're the home of rock and roll. We're the home of rap.

[Newt Gingrich]

We're the home of Pop music Eric Metaxas. Jared Isaacman.

[Joe Getty]

I plan to be flying an F5 fighter jet painted in Freedom 250 colors, along with four other fighter jets flying over the nation's capital, the story of

[Newt Gingrich]

the national anthem, and the president of the United States, Donald J. Trump. Join me and let's celebrate America's 250. Listen to Newt's World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jack Armstrong]

The Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

We're both big fans of Sarah Isger, editor of SCOTUS blog, host of the legal podcast Advisory Opinions, legal analyst for ABC News, and author of a fabulous new book, Last Branch Standing, a potentially surprising, occasionally witty journey inside today's Supreme Court. A book so timely and important, I believe it should be a compulsory read for every American. Not sure how that squares with the First Amendment. Sara, Sarah, welcome. How are you?

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm great. Thank you guys for having me.

[Joe Getty]

You betcha. Before we let you lay out the book, and here's the deal I'm going to make with you, even though we have no leverage, you're like the Hormuz straight. We have no leverage over you, but we're going to let you now go out and buy a hardbound copy of your book today, even though I'm getting a promotional copy. If I can get you to do one of your screens, and there's so many I would like screed might be prejudicial. Maybe I'll go with presentation or something like that. But. And I could have you do why the whole crying fire in a crowded movie house is misrepresented there. I mean, there's so many of them I've heard do that that I love

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

her greatest hits, why There are no

[Joe Getty]

parties Anymore and It's a waste of time. I want to have you lay out the pointlessness of issue polling after the book because I want you to do that for our audience. I really do.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Excellent.

[Jack Armstrong]

No problem. Done. I mean, you don't have to go me into, like, doing a rant. I love a rant.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Good. All right. First things first, though. Tell us about Last Branch Standing.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, part of the reason for this book is to convince Americans that, yes, they're hearing so much more about the Supreme Court and that it is actually our most functional branch of government. But it is never the last word in any of these fights that we're having on politics, on culture war, anything else, it is always up to the American people. If you don't like something the Supreme Court decided we can amend The Constitution. We used to do it pretty frequently in response to Supreme Court decisions, and most of the decisions from the Supreme Court are actually just up to Congress. If you don't like partisan gerrymandering, Congress can deal with that today. We just don't expect them to. We don't make them. And we continue to vote for people who have no interest in actually legislating because legislation requires compromise, negotiation, actually working with someone who disagrees with you. And instead, we keep electing people who are really good at putting out Instagram reels yelling about how the other side is the problem.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I've listened to you so much, I actually know what your answers are gonna be to all my questions, but I'll ask them anyway.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

You're half a stalker.

[Joe Getty]

I am. I'm a fanboy.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Down, boy.

[Joe Getty]

What changed? Why, you know, if we used to amend the Constitution all the time, what changed?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I mean, a few things. We can go back 100 years to the Progressive era. Woodrow Wilson, Teddy Roosevelt. They really wanted to remake the United States government and move away from Congress again, that messy, long negotiating process. And they wanted it all housed by experts and independent agencies who would be shielded from political influence. So we've been doing that experiment for about 100 years. And then during the second term of the Obama administration, when his immigration legislation failed in the House because Republicans wouldn't vote for it, he decided to do executive orders to implement legislation. Now, it didn't last long. Those executive orders were generally struck down by courts, or President Trump came in and repealed them all his first day in office. But it taught Congress that they don't need to do legislation anymore, because when their party has the White House, they can get everything that they want. And sure, it's only for a couple years, but they get the Rose Garden address, their base is happy, and nobody remembers a few years later whose fault it is when it all disappears.

[Joe Getty]

So the whole I have a pen and a phone thing took precedence.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

So essentially, then, now we are under

[Jack Armstrong]

government by executive order at this point.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Right. I was just gonna say. So Congress is not legislating in the executive branch. Is. Is that most of the reason there's

[Joe Getty]

so much of a spotlight on the

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Supreme Court these days, or what else is happening?

[Jack Armstrong]

I think that's right. You know, because Congress is where we were supposed to work out these problems again. You know, I'm thinking of cases that are waiting at the Supreme Court right now. Birthright citizenship, asylum at the southern border, whether Mississippi can accept in ballots five days after the election. All of those are questions we're supposed to work out in Congress. But because none of us believe that will happen, we end up bringing lawsuits to court and asking the courts to work those out for us. And so then we focus a lot more on the courts. It becomes really important who these judges are and they become part of our partisan disagreements instead of sort of the place of last resort to sort of, you know, be a referee.

[Joe Getty]

And we've seen the declining popularity numbers for the Supreme Court because of this, putting them in an impossible situation on a bunch of this stuff. Reply to this this is an out of control right wing Trump court.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, the data isn't great for people who argue that. So last term for six, three cases, you know, where all of the Republican appointees vote one way and all of the Democratic appointees vote the other way, which is what you would expect if this were a Republican red team versus blue team court that accounted for. Drumroll. Nine percent of the cases. So if that's how you're predicting the outcome of Supreme Court cases, you're going to get it wrong more than 90% of the time. And even if you include the 5, 4 cases, it turns out exactly equal numbers had all of the liberals in dissent versus having all the liberals in the majority and only conservatives in dissent. Instead, 42% of the cases are unanimous. That's the most likely outcome of any case at the Supreme Court. Very few, as I say, fall against partisan lines. The other things we'd expect if this were a Trump Supreme Court. Well, first of all, I guess we'd expect Trump to actually win some cases right now. Every major policy question that has come before the Supreme Court, he has lost. Immigration? Alien Enemies Act? Nope. Federalizing the National Guard? Nope. Terrorists? Nope. Birthright citizenship? I will bet you a shiny nickel that one's a hard no. So he keeps losing. In fact, in his first term, he lost more than any president in United States history. He's the first president to ever be below 50% at the Supreme Court. We'd expect them to be overturning precedent. Nope. This court is overturning fewer precedents than any court in modern history. We'd expect them to be taking more cases. Nope. This court is taking fewer cases than any court in recent history. So no matter what way you look at it, the data just isn't there for the people who want to argue that this is a partisan court.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Well, let's be honest about what animates virtually all of modern politics. You just raised $0 for the Democratic Party, Sarah. So thanks for wasting our time. You noted, and I found this so interesting, that Brett Kavanaugh was more likely to agree with Elena Kagan than Neil Gorsuch.

[Joe Getty]

What's going on there?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. So, I mean, Brett Kavanaugh and Neil Gorsuch are basically twins. They went to high school together. They had the same history teacher. They clerked on the court together. They were circuit judges at the same time. They were appointed by the same president. They are Federalist Society lab creations with good hair and conservative judicial principles. But last term, they only agreed with each other 50% of the time. As you say, Justice Kavanaugh was more likely to agree with Justice Kagan than was with Justice Gorsuch. Because Justice Kavanaugh is a high institutionalist. He thinks of this as a team sport. He likes basketball and baseball. Justice Gorsuch, he's a soloist. He likes skiing and running, solo sports. He is more like Justice Jackson, which is why you see them agreeing with each other's concurrences and why Justice Kavanaugh is the justice most likely to be in the majority. He is the swing justice.

[Joe Getty]

As of now, Sarah Isger's book is called Last Branch Standing in the First Sentence. And the promotional stuff is here. A myth busting glimpse into the inner workings of the Supreme Court. And you've already busted a few myths. What? How worried are you about the declining faith in the Supreme Court because of the untrue partisan things people have been saying on both sides now for several cycles?

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, let me give you the good news and the bad news. The good news is that the Supreme Court is still more popular than the president or Congress. So if we're just fighting among the three branches of government, definitely the Supreme Court is winning. The bad news is that our courts tend to be a lagging indicator of our politics. So another title for the book could have been Last Branch Standing for now. Because everything that we're doing now will eventually be reflected in the courts. And there are warning signs. Getting rid of the filibuster means that we now appoint judges who didn't get any votes from the other side of the aisle. That is not great. That is going to breed more extreme judges who are outliers. And it's going to change the behavior of people who want to become judges to be more partisan, more outspoken, lock themselves into certain positions. We have forum shopping now that we didn't used to have. That's not great. You know, you could be the most fair judge in the world, but if everyone knows that one side picked you, it doesn't look that fair to anyone. So. So I think those are things we can pretty easily fix, but it's not great. And the more we pull the courts into our partisan politics, negative polarization, I mean, we have a really toxic political environment right now. We cannot have the courts reflect that.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Let's go a little ABC123 about the Supreme Court. Kind of basic stuff. I think a lot of folks, particularly on the left, think it's about choosing the right result, period. And a lot of us on the right would like to believe that the court does nothing but look at the Constitution and the law and precedent. They may despise the result, but we've gotta go with this. That's oversimplified, obviously, but is that characterization of left and right, at least on the right track?

[Jack Armstrong]

You know, I think the conservative right wanted to think that about themselves, but it's pretty clear now that that's not true. Both sides only care about outcomes, really. You see the right attack the Supreme Court every time they rule against Donald Trump, sometimes specific justice. In very personal terms, you know, the attacks against Justice Amy Coney Barrett got very gendery, in my opinion. And I think that there's a natural human tendency to care about the outcome. I get it. But the Supreme Court's job is never to say, you know, what the good policy is. It is to say who gets to decide. So you're mad that the book is in your local school library. The Supreme Court isn't going to tell you whether that's a good book or a bad book for kindergarteners to read. Their question is, is who gets to decide whether that's a good book or a bad book? Is it the librarian? Is it the parent coming into the library? Is it the, you know, city mayor? Is it a state legislature? Is it the governor? Is it Congress? Those are the questions that the Supreme Court decides. They're never deciding which book it should be.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Right. I meant the justice is more than the average commentator or voter. For instance, Justice Jackson strikes me as just wanting the result, no matter how she has to twist the law.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, it's interesting because the legal left for a long time sort of had this idea of living constitutionalism. The Constitution evolves as our culture evolves, and it is up to the nine justices on the Supreme Court to decide where it has evolved to. President Lyndon Johnson famously once said, it takes 2/3 of Congress and 3/4 of the states to amend the Constitution. Justice Douglas can do it in an afternoon. That was really where they were. That has basically disappeared from the legal left, and yet nothing has yet replaced it. And so I think you see Justice Jackson trying to come up with a new legal philosophy for the legal left. That, yes, will produce liberal results, but they can be sort of intellectually, you know, built a new house, if you will, on the block of judicial philosophy. And look, like I said, said 9% of the cases were 6:3 along ideological lines. So I also think it's unfair to say ideology plays no role in Supreme Court decisions. 9% of the time it does. It's just that 91% of the time, something else is at work.

[Joe Getty]

So the book is Last Branch Standing. Couldn't recommend it more highly. I've heard Sarah talk about it in a bunch of different podcasts, and I'm sure I will eventually read it. She explains this stuff in a way that idiots like me can understand it in an entertaining way. So. So you have worked on presidential campaigns. You worked for Carly Fiorina. We used to have her on regularly back in the day when she was running. But anyway, I know with your background and a bunch of different areas, you don't think issue polling has much merit. Explain that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay, deep breath, Sarah. Don't go too far, okay?

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Go too far.

[Jack Armstrong]

Here's the problem. When we do candidate polling, we can actually judge whether the poll was any good because we have an election day, right? There is a backstop to the polling. We never can do that with issue polling. We can never find out whether that poll was a good poll or a bad poll. There's no way to grade it. So that's a big problem. Right? But there's another problem. When you ask people what candidate they intend to vote for, that's a very binary choice. They understand what an election is and that they're going to go in and check the box for one person or the other. And remember, those polls still aren't perfect. But when it comes to issue polling, oftentimes the question you're asking people isn't the question they think they're answering. You know, do you think the Straits of Hormuz should be open or whatever? Well, it kind of depends. What are the trade offs? Are you going to list all of the potential trade offs in that. That question? You've only got like 30 seconds to ask them a question and get them to answer it. And that's why you get so many different results with issue polling. It's also the case that sometimes people hear a question that can be about a very specific issue, but what they're answering, what they think they you really want to know is, who do you support for president? So, you know, do you like X policy or Y policy? The answer is, do you like Donald Trump or Kamala Harris? And so you're rarely getting the answer that I think you want if you're asking the same question, the exact same question over time. And that moves. That is interesting to me, right? Like, not the raw number, but like, oh, it has moved by seven points in the last month. Well, something then has changed if you're asking the exact same question. But that's rarely what we're doing.

[Joe Getty]

Do you regularly hear. Because in talk radio, we do it all the time. 43% of Americans, blah, blah, blah. Do you regularly slap your forehead with, oh, my God, there's no way there's any accuracy there.

[Jack Armstrong]

I sort of turn into like a Rain man type figure where I start saying that that's not a real poll. That's not a real poll. Don't do it. That's not a real poll.

[Joe Getty]

Perfect.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Sarah Isger's new book is Last Branch Standing. Can't wait to read it too. Sarah, what a pleasure it's been. I hope we can do it again soon.

[Jack Armstrong]

Absolutely. Thanks, guys.

[Joe Getty]

You betcha.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

All right. Thank you. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

The Armstrong and Getty Show. Get more Jack, more Joe podcasts and our hot links at Armstrong and getty.com come. The Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Joe Getty]

So my son wants to do this sometime this summer. He wants to go someplace where they have like a legendary steak or burger or ice cream sundae or whatever that if you can eat the whole thing or eat it in a certain amount of time or whatever, get your picture on the wall or a T shirt or something. He's always wanted to do that.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Now, I would never step on your son's dreams, but honestly, how's his game?

[Joe Getty]

How good is very good?

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Okay.

[Newt Gingrich]

All right.

[Joe Getty]

We have gone to Red Robin and gotten two of the cheeseburgers and fries. Two meals. Now we say, good Lord, are we waiting for someone else? No, no. He. He wants to do this. He wants to see if he can eat two of those meals. So he kind of likes that sort of thing anyway. So I did some research and some of the more famous ones around the country, by the way, I'm gonna leave out the ones where nobody's ever done it. That's just. That's just stupid, right? We have a 1,000 pound hamburger. Nobody's ever eaten it. Yeah, I'm sure they haven't.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

You can eat an entire side of beef. It's free.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, One of the most famous is the 72 ounce steak challenge challenge at Big Texan Steak Ranch in Amarillo, Texas. This is the old 96er which they parodied in the Simpsons and was featured in the movie the Great Outdoors of John Candy. It's the gold standard of this sort of thing they invented. It really started in 1962. And it's not just the steak. You also have to finish a shrimp cocktail, baked potato salad and a roll in one hour.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Oh my.

[Joe Getty]

It has a 12 completion rate.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Wow.

[Joe Getty]

You do get your. You get it free and then you get your picture up on the wall.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

That's amazing. Anybody could eat all of that.

[Joe Getty]

I know. The Kodiak Arrest Challenge. Humpy's Alaskan Ale House in Anchorage. We're probably not going to go to Alaska. I know you're going to Alaska. Alaska. We're probably not going to Alaska. Seven crab nuggets, four pounds of Alaskan king crab, a 14 inch reindeer sausage, blah blah blah. You gotta eat reindeer. And if you do it, you get a I got crabs at Humphrey's T shirt, which you know you'd wear the

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

rest of your life when you eat reindeer steaks. It's delicious. But Santa Claus cries.

[Joe Getty]

A New Orleans institution is the Acme Oyster House in New Orleans. 15 dozen oysters, that's a hundred. 180 oysters in one sitting.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

Can you imagine? I mean both ends, right?

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Kitty when your head starts to hurt cause the world is on fire Just turn to Jack and Joe they're your friends not your foes Just let listen every day like an addict but you don't pay cause it's free.

[Co-host (Armstrong and Getty Show)]

The podcast, it's Armstrong and Giddy on demand.