Podcast Summary: Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: "A Different Algorithm. Thane Rosenbaum Talks to A&G"
Date: September 19, 2025
Host: Jack Armstrong (Armstrong & Getty Show)
Guest: Thane Rosenbaum, CBS News Legal Analyst

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the legal and political controversy surrounding TikTok’s operations in the United States, the implications of its Chinese ownership, concerns around user data and national security, and the powerful influence of its content algorithm. Jack Armstrong and guest Thane Rosenbaum explore the ongoing legislative back-and-forth, potential outcomes for TikTok, and broader issues of information control and First Amendment rights in the era of algorithm-driven media.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Legal Battle Over TikTok in the U.S. (03:08 – 06:05)

• Background & Timeline:

  • The current standoff is the "fourth attempt" by U.S. officials to force TikTok to either divest from Chinese parent company ByteDance or end U.S. operations.
  • Stemming from Biden-era legislation targeting "social media companies that mine data of Americans that come from putative enemies of ours" and concerns about direct or indirect control by the Chinese government.
  • The primary issue: ByteDance’s inseparable relationship with Chinese authorities and the reality that “it’s not as if they could refuse a request” from Beijing (Jack Armstrong, 03:47).

• Cross-Administration Action:

  • Trump also took executive action, extending deadlines, and cited TikTok's impact on his political reach, notably among younger audiences.

• Economic Impact:

  • Not just about cat videos: "There are in fact, small businesses all over the United States that depend on TikTok as their main marketing technique." (Jack Armstrong, 04:30)

• Possible Solution:

  • "A consortium of venture capital companies, private equity and tech companies, including Oracle" is reported to be organizing a U.S. takeover. Regulatory requirements would include "someone on the board of directors who has some American affiliation." (Jack Armstrong, 05:13)

2. Personal Perspectives on TikTok and Social Media (06:05 – 07:24)

• Neither Guest nor Host Use TikTok:

  • Both Armstrong and Rosenbaum admit they don’t have TikTok, with Rosenbaum joking about being out of touch with the tech.

    “Do you not have TikTok because you're worried it's a Chinese data harvesting tool?”
    “No, not really. … I'm just not interested in social media.”
    (Thane Rosenbaum & Jack Armstrong, 06:33–06:43)

• Generational Divide:

  • The only reason Rosenbaum started using Instagram was to promote the show. Both are baffled by statistics about youth usage, e.g., "five hours for this group or seven hours for that group...I don't even know how that's possible." (Thane Rosenbaum, 06:57)

3. Algorithm as National Security Threat (07:24 – 09:15)

• Beyond Entertainment – News & Information:

  • The TikTok threat is not limited to entertainment; its algorithmic newsfeed is “tailormade for certain age groups, sensibilities, perspectives, where they live...that’s really what national security means,” gathering data and potentially shaping beliefs (Jack Armstrong, 07:52–08:28).
  • Algorithmic manipulation enables both injection and suppression of information:

    “Make sure that Jack Armstrong never sees a story about this ... He cannot see a story about this because he's… the kind of guy that will... talk about it on a show.” (Jack Armstrong, 08:32–08:44)

• Regulatory and First Amendment Complications:

  • If TikTok becomes an American company, government regulation is limited: “We have First Amendment rights. We're essentially like a newspaper. You can't tell us what to publish or what not to publish.” (Jack Armstrong, 08:55)

4. The Algorithm Question: Different or the Same? (09:15 – 11:09)

• Deal Terms Unclear:

  • Conflicting reports:

    “CNBC reported ... for the deal to happen, it was going to have to be a different algorithm. Then … The Wall Street Journal reported ... it was going to be the same algorithm. Well, that's a pretty big difference.” (Thane Rosenbaum, 09:15)

• Algorithm is Core to TikTok's Success:

  “From what I understand from people who love TikTok, it's all about that amazing algorithm that can pretty [much] predict what you want to be entertained by.” (Thane Rosenbaum, 09:37)

• Is the Algorithm Still Unique?

  • Armstrong notes the growing belief that TikTok's algorithm is no longer impenetrable—"people can actually duplicate it themselves."
  • Raises the question of media regulation and balance, referencing the now-defunct Fairness Doctrine:

    “Now it's clear the politics is on your sleeve... We tell you up front and we protect you from differing opinions.” (Jack Armstrong, 10:46)

5. Attitudes Toward AI & Literature (11:09 – 11:54)

• Chatbots:

  • Rosenbaum teases about using ChatGPT and other AI tools, to which Armstrong admits, "Not yet… I'm a writer and a novelist and that stuff scares me." (Jack Armstrong, 11:19–11:28)

• Impressing Each Other:

  • Rosenbaum earns literary points mentioning he's reading Ulysses:

    “You really impressed the hell out of me, Jack. ... James Joyce is something you're reading.”
    (Jack Armstrong, 11:40)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On TikTok's relationship with the Chinese government:

  “It’s not as if they could refuse a request. Right. You know, it's like the Chinese government is like the Godfather. ... If they had asked for something, they would have said yes.”
  — Jack Armstrong (03:54)

• On TikTok’s real threat:

  “It's even worse than that... if they were just watching videos of people dancing with their cats, that would be one thing... What we're really learning... is that most young people get their news from TikTok.”
  — Jack Armstrong (07:24)

• On algorithmic manipulation:

  “Algorithms that can easily be manipulated are tailor making a newsfeed... So that's really what national security means... how easy it is to manipulate us. Just give us a video or shade news stories a certain direction that’s in your favor.”
  — Jack Armstrong (07:52–08:28)

• On differences in proposed TikTok deal:

  “If it's a different algorithm, ... you can call it TikTok, but it's not the same thing.”
  — Thane Rosenbaum (09:20)

• On news media then and now:

  “When I was a kid and Walter Cronkite was the anchor for CBS News... no one knew if he was a Democrat or Republican, you had no way of knowing. That was a different time. Now... We tell you up front and we protect you from differing opinions.”
  — Jack Armstrong (10:41–10:46)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:08 – TikTok's legal/political context, cross-administration conflict
• 04:30 – TikTok as a lifeline for small businesses
• 06:05 – Personal views: Neither host nor guest uses TikTok or social media much
• 07:24 – The deeper threat: TikTok as a news source for the young
• 08:28 – Algorithmic newsfeed manipulation and national security implications
• 09:15 – Will the U.S. version use a different algorithm?
• 10:15 – Reference to Fairness Doctrine & decline of media balance
• 11:09 – Chatbots and literary credibility banter

Tone & Style

Lively, conversational, with a mix of humor and concern. Armstrong and Rosenbaum balance technical/legal explanations with relatable anecdotes and self-deprecation, making the conversation accessible but thoughtful.

Summary

This episode presents a nuanced look at the TikTok controversy, illustrating its complexity beyond politics into the realms of security, commerce, technology, and free expression. Armstrong and Rosenbaum explore not only the legal maneuvering over TikTok’s fate but also the algorithmic core driving both its popularity and controversy. Engaged, skeptical, and witty, the duo leave listeners with an understanding of why the TikTok debate matters—far beyond lip-syncing teens, and into the heart of how Americans form their views in the digital era.