Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty Show Intro (3:17)

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

Jack Armstrong (3:25)

Armstrong and Getty. And now here.

Joe Getty (3:30)

Is Armstrong and Yeti.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (3:34)

Happy Thanksgiving. It's the Armstrong and Yeti replay. I hope you eat as much as you can. I hope you're in pain by the end of the day.

Jack Armstrong (3:40)

I know I will be.

Joe Getty (3:41)

Now here are some delicious Armstrong and Getty leftovers.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (3:45)

Get filled up with more of Armstrong and Getty with our podcast Armstrong and Getty on Demand.

Joe Getty (3:50)

Your loved one, or maybe yourself wants an Armstrong and Getty hoodie, T shirt, hat or more. They're@armstrong yeti.com but a bike.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (3:58)

I'm going to become bike riding guy. You know one of those guys wears a really skin tight clothes, walks around the Starbucks.

Joe Getty (4:05)

Oh.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (4:08)

I'm not actually.

Joe Getty (4:09)

But I pictured you more shirtless, over tanned, messy, probably stolen bike guy.

Jack Armstrong (4:15)

Right?

Joe Getty (4:16)

You're going like Tour de France riding a kid's bike.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (4:18)

I'm somewhere in between. I'm gonna be in probably jeans, tennis shoes and a T shirt. But I am on a real bike, not a. Not a child's bike I took out of someone's backyard.

Joe Getty (4:26)

The suburban gentleman look.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (4:29)

Exactly. That is the look.

Joe Getty (4:30)

Why not? We were talking yesterday about an absolutely blockbuster report in the Hill about how vast majorities of college kids don't believe the garbage they've been indoctrinated in, but they're afraid to say it.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (4:45)

That is one of the more important things for people to know that I can remember. I mean, this is important information.

Joe Getty (4:53)

Yeah, and we hammered this pretty good yesterday. But 78% of students told us they self censor on their beliefs surrounding gender identity, 72% on politics in general, 68% on family values. They value what are traditionally known as family values, but they dare not speak it on college campus. And more than 80% said they'd submitted classwork that misrepresented their views in order to align with professors. You give them a chance and they will tell you what they really think. And we're on the cusp, I think, of a huge move toward the youngsters recognizing what's being done at colleges. It's not education at all, it's indoctrination. But those poll numbers were stunning and encouraging.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (5:45)

Well, the important thing to me though is just realizing that as human nature, that we're all so susceptible. I don't know about all, but so many people are susceptible to this.

Joe Getty (5:55)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (5:55)

Of keeping your mouth shut if you think most people don't agree with you. I keep my mouth shut in most social situations about political stuff, but. Right.

Joe Getty (6:04)

Well. And the whole concept of a preference distortion, which I find so interesting that you, because everybody around you is silent, you think, oh, I'm probably one of the only people who believes this because they agree with the powerful people who are telling us all what we ought to believe. But no, you're all sitting there thinking the same thing.

Jack Armstrong (6:21)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (6:21)

And I don't know how many times probably everybody's had this situation where that is going on and somebody's says, you know, I'm a gun owner and I. Me too, me too. And oh, geez, okay, so we're not all. Well, or whatever the topic is.

Joe Getty (6:35)

And that's the crazy thing, you know, to. If you find yourself in college and thinking, you know, this, this stuff about, you know, the gender bending madness, a man can just become a woman and that's really a woman. And, and all the other stuff they, they teach these poor kids, all the critical theory stuff. If you have the courage to stand up and be that rebel and think, you know, what 10% of us are together, I'm going to stand up and say, so then all of a sudden 85% of the class is on your side. You are a rebel. But, you know, you're not nearly as alone as you think.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (7:09)

Yeah. You can't blame people, though.

Joe Getty (7:11)

I mean.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (7:12)

Oh, I'm not blaming them at all. First of all, everything that's been presented to all of us led us to believe that this is what most people on college campuses thought was this stuff.

Joe Getty (7:20)

Well, that's part of the insidious plot. That's what propaganda is.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (7:24)

Sure. And telling everybody, including the teachers who are going to grade you that they're wrong, completely wrong, is not always your best move, right?

Joe Getty (7:35)

Oh, yeah. Well, that's why 80% of the kids submitted work that they didn't believe because they had to get their grades and move on in life. Nearly four out of five.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (7:45)

I don't believe this. But I'm going to pretend I do to get along. That's amazing.

Joe Getty (7:50)

Yeah, yeah, but that's, you know, that's indoctrination, especially of youth, is all about fighting unfairly and bullying and convincing kids that everybody believes it and anybody who dissents is a bad person. So, yeah, I don't blame the kids at all. No, I want to fight against the evildoers who are bullying them. Anyway. More good news. And if San Francisco is doing it, it's going to spread. San Francisco has embraced a new tool to clear homeless camps. You know, I've noticed city officials pointing to cleaner streets as evidence that more active approach is working. I feel like my reporting, say it's cruel and nasty.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (8:31)

I feel like my reporting with my own circumstances was leading the way long before the Wall Street Journal or others picked up on this. On the East Coast, San Francisco's a complete. If you haven't been in a long time, it's a completely different looking city than it was a year ago. It's amazing.

Joe Getty (8:48)

Indeed, between July of last year and July of this year, the city arrested or cited more than 10, 80 people on illegal lodging charges. That's over 10 times the number of arrests during the same period a year earlier under the progressive former administration.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (9:04)

Last time I was in downtown San Francisco, I saw a homeless person. 1. And that person was being talked to by somebody from the city about how you got to get out of here.

Joe Getty (9:13)

So the residents and business owners complaining about safety as encampments grew have finally been heard. Now, of course, the activists say you're merely shifting the homeless population around the city and putting homeless people at greater risk. Shut up.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (9:25)

Most of them are need to shut up.

Joe Getty (9:27)

Drug addicts. Yeah, yeah, shut up. So San Francisco is doing a good job. It is possible even under some of the bizarre court rulings recently. And also, and this is out of San Francisco as well. Once seen as a model of progressive drug policy, San Francisco stands now as a morbid example of how harm reduction has gone astray.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (9:54)

That's.

Joe Getty (9:55)

This is one of the shibboleths, one of the gods of the left is that you've got to help junkies do drugs safely and comfortably. What's the look, I get the clean needles thing. I get the impulse there.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (10:11)

What's the theory on that, though? How's that supposed to end that? That people will on their own decide, you know what, I don't want to live in my own filth on the.

Joe Getty (10:21)

Street at some point. Yes, okay. Yes, exactly. Yeah. In fact, this gal who's the executive director of the National Harm Reduction Coalition called the shift in San Francisco away from the harm reduction quote moronic and antithetical to what we know works. But the problem in San Francisco and other progressive cities is that harm reduction has become completely divorced from recovery. What began as a campaign to keep people alive long enough to recover from addiction has devolved into a philosophy that no longer considers recovery as necessary or even desirable. The question of whether or not harm reduction is successful comes down to whether it's treated as a gateway to recovery or as an alternative to it. So there you go. It has become an alternative to getting off of drugs.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (11:10)

What percentage? So I'm, I'm not a big.

Joe Getty (11:12)

Financed by you, the taxpayer.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (11:14)

I'm not big on the, on rehabs and that sort of stuff because they are incredibly unsuccessful and nobody pays any attention to that. But of people that, I mean, that's just for regular people, of people that are so far down the whole drug road that you're sleeping on the street next to another drug addict. How many of those people ever clean up, I wonder?

Joe Getty (11:34)

1%?

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (11:35)

Half of 1%? I'll bet it's very, I'll bet it's very, very low.

Joe Getty (11:40)

Yeah, I'm guessing, you know, a pretty good chunk of them continue using into their 40s, 50s, and then they succumb to, you know, the sort of thing middle aged addicts do. As, you know, a coroner once said in response to the question, who's your most common customer? They said male, 50s, alcoholic, and I'm sure drug addict. Now, because that was, gosh, 15 years ago, I think they would probably say, you know, middle aged drug addict or young drug addict. Anyway, more good news, though. Don't want to get focused on the bad news. Want to get focused on the fact that a lot of the insane policies of the left are being abandoned, even in places like San Francisco. Different topic, but kind of the same area. Boston Children's Hospital, the Harvard Medical Research and Training hospital that specializes in children's care, had previously insisted that they do not perform genital surgeries as part of gender affirming care on patients under the age of 18. But a journal of Clinical Medicine studies published a couple of years ago that was improved, blah, blah, blah, describes chest surgeries for those over 15 as well as genital surgeries for those over 17. And the Trump administration has subpoenaed all sorts of information from them. And because of that, at least partly, and this is from the New York Times. Reload, please. There it is. Hospitals are limiting gender treatment for trans minors. Both of those phrases ought to be in quotes because they're made up even in blue states. Three prominent medical centers in California recently announced they would stop the treatments, citing pressure from the Trump administration and from, from sanity. So that's good. There's a lot of real madness being rolled back. Good progress domestically. Love it. Let's not focus on the, the grim stuff.

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty Show Intro (13:37)

The Armstrong and Getty Show. Get more Jack, more Joe podcasts and our hot links at Armstrong and getty.com Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty the Armstrong.

Joe Getty (13:50)

And Getty show so my, my sweetheart Judy and I spent eight days in London and had an absolutely wonder. I loved England, as I suspected I would. It's a very interesting place. I've become a fan of day drinking and not in that like vacation drinking all day long way, but in the like you have a pint at lunch at a pub and then you go do what you're going to do. You're not quote unquote drinking. You just have a beer because it's nice and it makes you feel slightly more cheerful.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (14:26)

Why did we, how did we develop our attitude have in the United States over the years? Because I remember when I was in Italy thinking the same thing. Everybody would come in to restaurants like people who are working their jobs. They'd have a glass of wine, eat their food and then go back to work. And that is seen in the United States is just insane. Just absolutely crazy.

Joe Getty (14:46)

Yeah. The Europeans have what I would call a very European look or view of drinking that I found refreshing. Speaking of pubs, so we rented a flat in Mayfair, if you know where that is. Doesn't matter. New Bond street, lots of like crazy high end shopping, mostly populated by Kuwaiti oil money.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (15:08)

Oh wow.

Joe Getty (15:08)

By the by, guys walking up the street with four chicks in the beekeeper out really going into perfume stores and spending just ungodly amounts of oil money. For real.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (15:18)

That's not an exaggeration. You saw a guy walking up the street with four women in the beekeeper.

Joe Getty (15:24)

Outfit in eight in eight days? Many times.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (15:27)

Yes.

Joe Getty (15:27)

Wow. I mean one to six women in the beekeeper outfit.

Colgate Advertiser (15:32)

Wow.

Joe Getty (15:33)

Yeah. Anyway, they are basically sex slaves or.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (15:38)

Cleaning your house slaves or whatever.

Joe Getty (15:39)

And everybody just tolerates that with no rights. That's correct. Yes. And Brits are not super duper happy about the completely, wildly unfettered immigration from Muslim lands over the last 20 years. More on that another time. But anyway. But out our windows onto the street there was a little like just a half a block long street and there was a Pub on each side of it at the other end. It was 100 yards from us maybe as we looked out the window. And it was so cool every day and more and more as the week went on. At 4:30 or so, certainly by 5:00 clock there would be so many people standing in and outside the pub having a pint with their co workers and friends and a laugh and a conversation before they went home for the day.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (16:30)

Sounds like a recipe for sexual harassment.

Joe Getty (16:33)

Oh my God. And, and it wasn't. They were drinking. No, they were talking with people because they worked with people and they met their buddies and they talked about the football match, which is soccer. And it just, it was nice. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. And I thought, wow, I could get used to this in a hurry. Although the, the pub thing, we, we went to this one historic pub. We met our next door neighbors from home. Weirdly enough, they were over there at the same time. We decided to get together. We go to this pub. Hundreds of years old pub, drenched in history. Legendary. The Prince something or Lord what's it. Or I don't even remember the name, but it was very atmospheric. But anyway, so we're sitting there having dinner and we're having a couple of pints and we decide it's time to eat and we order like four small plates off the menu. And the waitress comes back and says, I'm so sorry, we're actually out of the calamari and the, the pucker fish or whatever the hell it was. And also the, the, the beef Wellington. And we're like, oh, okay, it's like six o' clock at night. All right, all right, all right, all right, we'll order those other things. She comes back and like two of those three are out.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (17:51)

So should she ever get around to admitting we're not actually a restaurant, we.

Joe Getty (17:56)

Don'T have any food at all. We just have a menu.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (17:58)

We just hope we're working on the fly. Most people start drinking, they forget if they're hungry.

Joe Getty (18:02)

So at one point I said it would save time if you just told me what you do have. But we end up with this mess of food.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (18:10)

You bloody tarts. Did you say that?

Joe Getty (18:13)

I shouldn't have, but I didn't know. And finally, so at the end of the evening, and it was lovely, she comes and says, can you tell me what you actually ordered and got? Oh boy. And I'm like, wait a minute, that's your job. We're supposed. No, no, no, you tell us. And it was just part of it is tipping is not Really a thing there. Now they've got a service charge that's like 5, 6, maybe 10%, but you feel it because they're not earning it. They're like, look, I'm getting my 6%, okay? No matter what.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (18:54)

Gotcha.

Joe Getty (18:55)

So if you have to, like, order 24 foods before I bring you three, just because we're playing this little game of we might have it, we might not, why don't you order? Find out. So, you know, it's. It's pluses and minuses. Because the whole tipping thing is. It's stressful, especially if you don't know local customs. But yeah. Michael, how was the food over there overall in England? Overall kind of good. Not great. But once you realize how to order and what to order, it's better. But, yeah, the Brits are not famous for food for good reason. If you say, hey, what's a great meal around here? People will send you to an Italian restaurant or an Indian restaurant for good reason. But the other thing about workers that I found interesting, we had a tour guide at the British Museum who was just terrific. He was a professional professor of history, and he said, yeah, that exhibit is shut down because there's just no employees. There's no one to work. I said, what? That's odd. He said, oh, yeah. Since COVID everybody stays home, they live with their parents, they're collecting government checks. You can't get people to work. Wow. And I thought that was so interesting and exactly what you hear from so many employers in the States.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (20:09)

Yeah, we had that conversation with my family in the Midwest of the United States. I don't go to other countries and give them my money. I stay in the United States.

Joe Getty (20:17)

And.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (20:20)

We had the same conversation on how number of restaurants, including the one we were at, was really. They. They weren't seating all the seats, not because they were crowded, because they didn't have enough help. How is that still a thing?

Joe Getty (20:35)

Yeah, I know. It's amazing. And universally universal, apparently. Armstrong and Gettysburg.

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Joe Getty (23:17)

This is what they call the hard.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (23:19)

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Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty Show Intro (23:48)

Armstrong and Getty Show Tad and Torn.

Joe Getty (23:52)

Apart I'm at my best. When I can barely start, I fall down easy while I get up slow. I really, really hope that the bruises don't show.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (24:10)

The president decides to do something with an executive order or whatever often that they promised on the campaign trail. Their voters get all excited, yay, they did it day one, like they promised. And then, then I get an alert on my phone. Some judge somewhere I've never heard of has said, no, you can't do that. And then it stops. And everybody's like, groans like, oh, they can do that. And it keeps happening over and over again. And do we want that system to continue that way or not? Is part of what the Supreme Court was arguing about yesterday. And as one of the justices said, there are 600 some federal judges. And while I do not question their motives, sometimes there are.

Joe Getty (24:49)

They are wrong.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (24:51)

So do we want them to be able to hold up the whole country?

Joe Getty (24:53)

Let us discuss the very interesting and multifaceted oral arguments yesterday before the Supreme Court with Tim Sandifer, vice President for Legal affairs at the Goldwater Institute. Among other auspicious titles, author of eight books, including most recently Freedom's How Isabel Patterson, Rose Wilder, and Ayn Rand, Found Liberty in Age of Darkness. I've recommended it many times. It's terrific. Tim, how are you, sir?

Jack Armstrong (25:18)

Just great. Thanks for having me back, guys.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (25:19)

Published poet. Gotta throw that in there.

Joe Getty (25:22)

True. Yes. A polymath, as they say. Anyway, Tim. So ostensibly, everybody's talking about that we were gonna discuss birthright citizenship in front of the Supreme Court, and that did come up. But would you agree that the more significant discussion was about nationwide injunctions by individual federal judges?

Jack Armstrong (25:42)

Oh, yes, absolutely. That was the focus of the argument, and it was a very interesting argument, but I don't think that it's a hard question. I think the answer is, obviously, nationwide injunctions are perfectly fine. They're the ordinary way of doing business in the courts, and people who complain about them either don't understand the system or are trying to get away with something illegal.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (26:02)

Yeah, I don't. I don't always like that it happened, but I can't see what the alternative would be, as somebody pointed out. So you're going to let. I guess it was you that pointed it out yesterday in Twitter. The idea that. So every time a president does something, it's got to work its way all the way through the courts up to the Supreme Court. And then a decision by the Supreme Court before the Supreme Court might say sometimes nine. Nothing. You can't do that. Oh, wait a minute.

Jack Armstrong (26:29)

And during that whole Period of time, the government is still doing the illegal thing, Right?

Joe Getty (26:32)

Right. Well, so clearly it's 2 to 1 for a judicial takeover of the government. But I will stand up for liberty. Is there no middle ground? It's got to be three judge panel and not a single yahoo in rural Tennessee.

Jack Armstrong (26:46)

Yeah, I think having a single yahoo in rural Tennessee is perfectly fine because that's what the appellate process is for. That's why you appeal cases. And by the way, that's why you should avoid appointing yahoos to the federal bench. Might mention that too. The argument against nationwide injunctions always seems to boil down to, well, this is a democracy and the majority should always get what it wants. And the answer to that is no. What happened to all of my friends who used to say, this is a republic, not a democracy? The whole point of our system is that the majority has to act lawfully. And if it acts unlawfully, I can go in front of a judge and get an order from that judge prohibiting the government from violating my rights. And the idea that this, that we should do this piecemeal, that only a judge down here, that his order only applies there, meanwhile the government can do illegal things to everybody else in the country until the case reaches the US Supreme Court, makes no sense at all.

Joe Getty (27:41)

The underlying theme here being, folks, that what we really need to fear is the power of the government in this country. That's kind of the idea of forming it. So there's no question that these nationwide injunctions were relatively or practically completely unknown for 150 years. Then there were a handful of them, and the number of them is now skyrocketing every day.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (28:02)

It seems like on my phone I see a judge jumped in somewhere.

Jack Armstrong (28:06)

I actually don't think that that's true. I think that what happened was we just started calling them by a different name. There have been injunctions against unconstitutional government action since before there was a constitution. One of the points that was brought up during the arguments was, but British judges used to do this before the American Revolution. And that was considered perfectly legitimate. It's just that nowadays we call them nationwide injunctions, or we have some judges who write sloppily and don't explain what they're actually saying or something. Okay, that's a problem, I suppose. But the idea that you should limit the injunction power of federal courts is what that is, is that's open door to the majority violating individual rights on a scale that, I mean, they already do it. But you can imagine what it would be if we took away one of the Most important, protection, individual rights in this country, which is getting an injunction from our federal court to protect your freedom. That's insane.

Joe Getty (29:00)

So I didn't want to get to.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (29:01)

This part too fast because you're a lawyer and this part can't be fixed with the law. It seems to me that we've got a cultural problem in that presidents are way more likely than they used to be to want to challenge the Supreme Court either to, like, legitimately they don't think the law is correct or they don't care if they're wrong. They just want to get the political credit for trying. And perhaps I don't know this, but it seems like a likely response. The 600 some federal judges out there.

Joe Getty (29:31)

There'S a lot more of them who.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (29:32)

Are willing to let their politics get ahead of their judge reasoning and jump in and stop somebody they hate.

Jack Armstrong (29:38)

Yes, you're absolutely right about that. And especially the thing about the President and Congress being willing to do things that they know are unconstitutional because they know that the judges are going to strike it down and they can blame the judges and say, oh, those evil activist judges, or they can get away with their unconstitutional things. So it's win, win if you want to do something unconstitutional. And honestly, every president's done this to some degree. Obviously Franklin Roosevelt did this a lot. But the one that always sticks in my memory is George W. Bush when he signed the McCain Feingold campaign finance law and said when he signed it that he thought it was unconstitutional but that he would leave it to the courts to deal with. Well, I'm sorry, but if you're the president, you take an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. And if you ignore that oath and sign something that you know is unconstitutional just because you think the courts will clean up your mess for you, I think that's disgraceful.

Joe Getty (30:32)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (30:32)

Well, a lot of the pieces I've read that have been following the growth of this use that as kind of like the patient zero because he said it out loud and then other presidents thought, hey, I can do that. I just won't say it out loud. And Obama did it and Biden did it and Trump did it in whichever order and then Trump again and. And it's how. So how do we fix this?

Jack Armstrong (30:52)

Well, there's a long answer and a short answer. The short answer is elect good presidents. The long answer is that we have to restore respect for the Constitution in this country. I think it's the long term damage that's been done to Americans understanding and appreciation of the Constitution is horrifying. We have prominent law professors. There was a law professor at Georgetown Law School a few years ago published an article in the Washington Post saying the Constitution is obsolete. I don't respect it at all. Well, you're a teacher of constitutional law, for crying out loud. And if we don't respect the Constitution, we don't love it. It cannot protect us. The Constitution is just a promise. And if we don't honor that promise, then it's not worth the paper it's written on.

Joe Getty (31:35)

We should have written a law specifically putting him in jail, in my opinion. Tim Sandifer is on the line from the Goldwater Institute. A little constitutional humor.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (31:45)

Exactly. Designed for punish one man. That's a good idea.

Joe Getty (31:49)

Yeah, let's do it. So, you know, blah, blah, blah, disclaimer about. It's difficult to read the tea leaves of the oral arguments, blah, blah, blah. Did it strike you that the justices, the sane ones that we like, were leaning in any particular direction as to the nationwide injunctions, judges, etc, that we've been discussing?

Jack Armstrong (32:08)

Some of the judges have made clear for a long time that they're against these, what they call nationwide injunctions. Justice Thomas, in particular, some of the others are a little harder to read. Justice Barrett, for example, and Justice Roberts, who have become really the swing judges on this issue. I thought the most interesting judge, if you want to. If anybody wants to go and listen to the argument online. I thought Justice Jackson was the one who was the most interesting. She clearly understands how this area of the law works, and she rightly says there's no there there. Nationwide injunctions are perfectly legitimate, they always have been, and there's no problem. So she'd be the one that I find most interesting. But how to predict. I think you're gonna get. I think Justice Roberts and Justice Barrett are gonna side with the liberals and say we don't have a problem per se with nationwide injunctions, but maybe some of them aren't very good, but as a blanket matter, they're okay. And then they're going to want to hear the underlying case about birthright citizenship, which obviously is a huge deal.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (33:06)

That sounds about right to me.

Joe Getty (33:07)

Is it even worth getting into what happened on that topic yesterday, or do you think it's.

Jack Armstrong (33:12)

Well, they really just talked about whether or not they have a legitimate case in the first place, and they haven't really briefed it or argued it yet. But that's important because in order to get an injunction, you kind of have to first show that you have even an arguable point to make, and that was what they were arguing about. And I will say, I know this is talk radio and we're all supposed to think that we clearly have the right answer on everything. I think the birthright citizenship question is a very hard question. I don't think it's an easy question on either side.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (33:40)

Let's talk about that when we come back from the break. I want to hear. I want to hear the arguments on both sides of that. That's interesting. And clearly you've probably seen the breakdown of who speaks the most words. The chicks talk too much. Is that a given?

Jack Armstrong (33:53)

Well, Justice Sotomayor does love cutting off lawyers and not letting them answer her questions.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (33:58)

Yeah, the chicks talk too much.

Joe Getty (33:59)

I think that's in the new gal talks more than anybody. That shouldn't happen in any organization.

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty Show Intro (34:05)

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty the Armstrong and Getty show.

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Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty Show Intro (37:16)

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty the Armstrong and Getty Show.

Joe Getty (37:21)

Rise and check in the town that's discussing the oral arguments before the Supreme Court yesterday with Tim Sandifer, vice President for Legal affairs at the Goldwater Institute. It was advertised as a birthright citizenship. Hearing it or discussion, it really was much more a discussion of individual federal judges and nationwide injunctions and that sort of thing. But to the question of the 14th amendment, Tim, you said before the break that that it's not an easy call. I'm glad to hear you agree. I've thought the same thing. What should we know about the 14th amendment to even come to a semi intelligent opinion on this?

Jack Armstrong (38:01)

Well, the first sentence of the 14th Amendment says all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are US Citizens. And all of this case, all of these arguments turn on that phrase subject to the jurisdiction thereof. What does that phrase mean? It's really tough because the word jurisdiction is one of those words that can mean all sorts of different things. It basically means power, but there's all sorts of different kinds of power. And so that's what the argument Turns on, does it? Some people think that it means you have to follow the law. If you're born here and you have to follow the law, then you're subject to the jurisdiction thereof, and then that means you're a citizen. But that doesn't really make a lot of sense because even foreign tourists who come here for a vacation have to follow the law. I mean, they have to stop at red lights and they can't steal things. So that can't be what that means. Right. Instead, the other side argues jurisdiction thereof means some kind of loyalty or allegiance, that there's citizenship jurisdiction as opposed to follow the law jurisdiction. And that difference, you can see that difference, for example, in this. If you're a foreign spy and you sneak into the country and you spy for some foreign country and you get arrested, you can be prosecuted for espionage, but you cannot be prosecuted for treason. Why? Because you're not a US Citizen and you don't owe loyalty to the US So you cannot commit treason against the US and so there's two different kinds of jurisdiction, is the argument. And so those who are against birthright citizenship, say subject to the jurisdiction thereof, means that your parents owed loyalty to the United States as opposed to some foreign country. And that would mean that illegal aliens, if they have a child here, that child is not a citizen of the United States. Now, that that's also. There's a problem with that. There's a couple problems with that. One of the problems with that argument is that nobody has ever said that that's what it means. In the 150 years since this has been in the Constitution, everybody has acted like, if you're born here, you're a citizen all of that time. And so suddenly discovering that, well, it turns out that we've been misreading the Constitution for 150 years would be a huge, enormously radical transformation in how our system works. That would cause tremendous disruption nationwide. And that would be a. But all of this. The real problem here in answering this question is that when the amendment was adopted, there were no such things as illegal aliens because there were no laws against immigration. And that means that if you're an originalist and you think the Constitution should be understood the way it was originally intended, the framers didn't ever think about this because it wasn't against the law back then. So we don't know what they would have thought about this question.

Joe Getty (40:39)

Right, Right. Well, at the point that this enormously radical, disruptive precedent is overturned, that's when you tag me in and Tim and I come in and explain to the good folks that look, the nature of global transportation, the movement of people or peoples from one place to another, has changed so vastly.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (41:01)

Joe's a living constitution guy. You can hear it coming out of it. What?

Joe Getty (41:05)

No. Don't you dare know that the very nature of comings and goings from countries has been so radically transformed. A Chinese national with not the slightest notion of making life in the United States can depart China, arrive here, give birth, go back to China, all in the span of 72 hours. I'm inducing labor in this case or getting very lucky and that child had citizenship. That's eventuality unimaginable back in the day, as the kids say.

Jack Armstrong (41:39)

I think that's sort of true. But on the other hand, the Chinese question came up back then because there were so many Chinese in California in the 1860s. And senators were asked, well, this gonna make the children of the Chinese immigrants who back then did not intend to stay in the United States, they intended to go back to China. The senators were asked, does this make their kids US Citizens? And the senator from California said yes. And then he was immediately thrown out of office. So what does that mean? Nobody knows what that means.

Joe Getty (42:08)

A single case from 1898, or is there more precedent?

Jack Armstrong (42:12)

Really, there really isn't. There's really just a handful of precedents and no Supreme Court case has ever said that birthright citizenship is in the. Is in the Constitution. There have been some that have kind of mentioned it or kind of assumed it, but none has said so outright.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (42:26)

I am surprised. The polling shows that only about a third of Americans want to do away with the way we do it.

Joe Getty (42:31)

Now.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (42:31)

I'm surprised by that. I do want to get to this. This is a journalistic question, but I think it has an effect on people's respect for the law. It has come up recently. It has become a pattern that anytime the media mentions a judge, they mentioned what president appointed them. Do you think that's a good idea or not? They didn't just barely got a minute.

Jack Armstrong (42:51)

I think, I think it's fine. I think people should know where these. For instance. I think it would help a lot of judges. You know, a lot of Republican appointed judges have been ruling against the Trump administration. And I think it would be helpful for people to know that these questions are not things where it's all partisan. The law is not just partisan politics. It's something much more profound and much more important than that.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (43:11)

Yeah, well, I agree, but it implies that, that judges, I don't know, true I didn't used to think. I didn't used to think about it ever. If a judge ruled, I just thought, well, that's interesting. Now it's all who appointed him? Oh, of course he said that.

Jack Armstrong (43:25)

That is true. I. That is a risk. But I. I think we should air on the side of informing people as opposed to keeping people in the dark. So I. That's why.

Joe Getty (43:35)

Tim Sander for the Goldwater Institute on the line. Tim, final question. I've called for a monarchy. You in favor of it, yes or no? No.

Jack Armstrong (43:42)

I'm against the monarchy. I'm for the Constitution.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (43:44)

Joe, one more question. As a published poet, I was thinking about this yesterday. He won the Nobel Prize. Bob Dylan. Good poet or not?

Jack Armstrong (43:51)

Lousy poet. No. Read Robert Hayden or Richard Wilbur instead.

Joe Getty (43:56)

How about Ringo Star? Octopus's Garden? Tim, it's always great and enlightening. Thanks a million for the time. Let's talk again soon.

Jack Armstrong (44:05)

Thanks, guys.

Joe Getty (44:06)

All right.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (44:07)

I was actually thinking about this. Listening to Dylan lyrics. Why do they stick in everybody's head so much? Why do people keep going back to them if it's just gobbledygook like a lot of real poets claim?

Joe Getty (44:20)

It can't be.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (44:21)

It wouldn't lodge. It wouldn't. It wouldn't make the market made. Would it?

Joe Getty (44:24)

Well, right. He was famously moody about his career and his music. In his life's philosophy. I think some of his stuff is absolutely brilliant and I think some of it's gobbledygo. Huh. Maybe.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (44:37)

Maybe more on that another day. Or maybe not. We got plenty stuff to tell you. I hope you can stick around if you missed a segment. I thought that Tim thing was really, really good. And you want to listen to it again. Get the podcast. Armstrong and Getty on demand.

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty Show Intro (44:49)

Armstrong and Getty.

Joe Getty (44:51)

Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (45:01)

Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong.

Joe Getty (45:03)

He's Joe Getty. We're Armstrong and Getty.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (45:04)

We try to bring you truth, the truth.

Joe Getty (45:05)

And help you figure out this crazy modern world about something, about a comedic tone. We have a winner. Yes.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (45:15)

Listen to Armstrong. You geti on Demand on the iHeartRadio app.

Joe Getty (45:18)

Apple Podcasts.

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Joe Getty (47:43)

This is what they.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or Jack Armstrong, alternate speaker) (47:43)

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Joe Getty (48:09)

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Com this is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.