Are We Needed In This?

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: Are We Needed In This?
Release Date: March 24, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Are We Needed In This?", hosts Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty delve into the growing integration of artificial intelligence, specifically ChatGPT, into our personal lives. They explore the implications of relying on AI for communication, relationship counseling, and even therapy, questioning the necessity of human interaction in these intimate areas.

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Using ChatGPT for Personal Communication

The conversation ignites with Jack mentioning the increasing trend of individuals using ChatGPT to navigate personal relationships. He shares an anecdote about someone using AI to craft responses during marital disagreements.

Jack (00:45): "I find this to be a fascinating topic. Apparently, it's pretty damn common for people to go to ChatGPT or something similar for some like marriage counseling or guidance."

Joe adds a lighter note by joking about testing ChatGPT's response capabilities, highlighting the uncanny accuracy AI can sometimes achieve.

Joe (03:03): "I'm gonna send you a provocative text right now and we'll see what ChatGPT suggests."

Jack expresses his discomfort with the idea of AI-generated responses replacing genuine human interaction.

Jack (03:38): "Are we even needed doing it to be here? Or we should just let them have a conversation, leave them alone. They look like they're having a good time."

AI as a Therapist: Benefits and Skepticism

The hosts transition into discussing AI as a substitute for traditional therapy. Katie introduces an AI therapist named "Abby," which claims to be trained on thousands of therapy books and research papers.

Katie (13:57): "Abby has been trained on over 7,800 therapy books and research papers. I can reference almost everything that's been written about therapy to help you with whatever's bothering you."

Jack remains skeptical about the depth and personalization AI can offer compared to human therapists.

Jack (10:25): "I don't like the idea of it giving me advice on what I should be saying. It just seems weird."

Joe counters by acknowledging the potential accessibility benefits, especially for those who find traditional therapy expensive or inaccessible.

Joe (09:58): "People that can't afford therapy, and that is many, many people, because it's crazy expensive, are going to lean on this and just."

Potential Drawbacks of AI in Personal Relationships

The discussion highlights concerns about AI potentially reducing human-to-human interactions. Jack worries that relying on AI for personal issues might lead to less engagement with friends and family.

Jack (08:48): "It's just going to make less human interaction happen. Because now you don't have to take your troubling issues to your friends. You just take it to ChatGPT."

Katie raises the point about privacy and the lack of emotional intelligence in AI responses, which can sometimes lead to generic or inappropriate advice.

Katie (03:58): "One of the recommended responses was, it'll be okay. Stay strong. If I ever sent that, she would unfriend me yesterday."

Exploring AI Therapy Services

The hosts explore various AI therapy platforms, discussing their functionalities and user experiences. Katie shares her interaction with "Abby," noting the customization options that tailor the AI's approach based on user preferences.

Katie (15:01): "It's asking me, who do you want me to be? A professional therapist? An empathetic friend? A tough coach, a mindfulness guru, problem solver, or a philosophical guide?"

Jack concedes that while AI might offer a breadth of knowledge, it lacks the nuanced understanding that human therapists provide through long-term relationships and personalized follow-ups.

Jack (16:08): "You remember last week when you bought that thing and he was upset about it. He might still just be upset about that. That's the sort of in-depth follow-up I don't think you're gonna get from an AI bot."

Social Implications and Future Outlook

As the conversation progresses, the hosts ponder the broader social implications of AI integration into personal aspects of life. Joe speculates on the future of counseling jobs and the potential shift towards AI-driven support systems.

Joe (14:44): "Instead of having that knowledge distilled and passed through that dipshit, you have it through what is allegedly perhaps a neutral source."

Katie expresses intrigue about the potential of AI therapy for her children, highlighting both fascination and cautious optimism.

Katie (16:09): "I need to look into that for one of my kids. Yeah, I'm intrigued."

Humorous Demonstration of AI Responses

To illustrate the sometimes awkward nature of AI-generated responses, the hosts engage in a playful reenactment. They showcase how ChatGPT might respond to personal messages, leading to humorous and cringe-worthy exchanges.

Katie (19:15): "Did Chat GPT tell you to say that? Wow."

Joe (19:14): "Delete it."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Jack and Joe reflecting on the balance between leveraging AI for convenience and maintaining authentic human connections. While acknowledging the potential benefits of AI in making therapy more accessible, they remain wary of its limitations in fostering genuine emotional support.

Jack (18:04): "This is gonna put a lot of therapists out of work, guaranteed."

Joe (18:19): "Text me the link. It's old, Katie. It'll take you all day trying to explain it to me."

Overall, "Are We Needed In This?" presents a thought-provoking exploration of AI's role in personal relationships and mental health, encouraging listeners to weigh the advantages against the potential loss of human touch.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jack (00:45): "I find this to be a fascinating topic. Apparently, it's pretty damn common for people to go to ChatGPT or something similar for some like marriage counseling or guidance."
• Katie (13:57): "Abby has been trained on over 7,800 therapy books and research papers. I can reference almost everything that's been written about therapy to help you with whatever's bothering you."
• Jack (08:48): "It's just going to make less human interaction happen. Because now you don't have to take your troubling issues to your friends. You just take it to ChatGPT."
• Joe (14:44): "Instead of having that knowledge distilled and passed through that dipshit, you have it through what is allegedly perhaps a neutral source."
• Katie (19:15): "Did Chat GPT tell you to say that? Wow."

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This episode of Armstrong & Getty On Demand offers listeners a comprehensive look into the evolving dynamics between humans and artificial intelligence in the realm of personal relationships and mental health, fostering a deeper understanding of where technology may be heading and its potential impact on our social fabric.

Transcript

[Jack]

Are we needed in this at all? It's one more thing. Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe]

One more thing.

[Jack]

Before we get to arguing through ChatGPT, it's Katie's birthday today. What do you do for your birthday? A person like you?

[Katie]

I go to the gym and continue my day as usual.

[Jack]

That's probably why you look so young. At 36 you look much younger than 30. When I was 36 I looked 56 and when I was 56 I looked 102.

[Katie]

So I really appreciate that. Cuz somebody asked me if it was I was going to be 40 so I was like really?

[Jack]

There there's something wrong with them. And I'm not just saying this to be nice.

[Joe]

No way.

[Jack]

You look 40.

[Joe]

Aren'T you? I heard on TikTok you're supposed to have a birthday week. Oh no, I get a manny and a petty and a mani pedi and then you go out for mimosas or something and then you have a trip with your friends.

[Jack]

Galentine's day or something?

[Katie]

Oh no, no. My, my husband works all week so Drew's gonna take me out for a nice dinner later this week and just keep it simple.

[Jack]

There you go.

[Ashley]

Yeah, this is Ashley from the bed and Ashley I almost famous podcast. You could have lost 10 pounds already if you already started one month ago. So are you ready to start today? Find out if weight loss meds are right for you in just 3 minutes at trifh.com try fh.com try fh.Com results vary based on start weight and adherence to diet, exercise and program goals. Database on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion.

[Jack]

So if you're not pleased with the way he handles your birthday, you could ask Chat GPT if he did a good enough job and it would suggest what you should say to him. Ok, so I became aware of this the other day through someone I know who in a group of people they, they talk to. I gotta, gotta be vague or I'm gonna get somebody in trouble here. And I really don't want to, but I find this to be a fascinating topic. Apparently it's pretty damn common for people to go to Chat GPT or something similar for some like marriage counseling or guid. Like hey, my husband did this. How should I react? It, it reminds me that I've been mentioning a lot like the new iPhone software. When I get a text it has the suggestion at the bottom of how I should respond and it weirds me out a little. In that sometimes it's really dang close. Like practically word for word what I was gonna say. Like, you know, if the response is, sounds good, I'll see you then. Looking forward to it. And I was gonna say more or less than that. That. Anyway, I think, why don't I just press send? But I haven't done it yet because it kind of creeps me out, the idea of not forming those thoughts myself and just kind of starting to rely on Chat GPT because then if, you.

[Joe]

Know, I'm gonna send you a provocative text right now and we'll see what Chat GPT suggests. Because it does it on text. Right? I'm trying to remember.

[Jack]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because at some point it weirds me out in that, like, if I respond with it, an AI response, and then theirs is cool, you know, that's great. This will really be fun. But theirs is a if. If both of them are Chat GPD responses talking to each other again. Like, I started, what are we doing here? Are we even needed doing it to be here? Or we should just let them have a conversation, Leave them alone. They look like they're having a good time.

[Katie]

I had to laugh the other day. Well, not. Let me take that back. I was not laughing. My. My dear friend's dog passed away recently and she text messaged me about it. And one of the recommended responses was, it'll be okay. Stay strong. I'm going, oh, my God. If I ever sent that, she would unfriend me yesterday.

[Joe]

Wow. That is straight out of the generics aisle. Where, let's see, can I get a response for under $2? Oh, here's one.

[Jack]

Yeah. I wonder if eventually that's what it'll be. It'll be the free one gives you suggestions like that, but for just, you know, for premium members, if you're paying 9.99amonth and it's a cheap subscription, you know, it'll put a little thought into your.

[Joe]

Would you like a more insightful and compassionate response? It'll only cost you a dollar 99amonth.

[Jack]

Right. But. So these people were using Chat GPT getting into arguments with their husband or whatever. And this one person said, I've been using it to communicate with my husband. It's fantastic. It's a game. And the Chat GPT had said to this person, after they explained their argument, no need to feel. Feel guilty. You're used to managing his emotions. And now that he's upset, it's triggering that guilt. But you're right, he shouldn't. You shouldn't feel guilty. If he chooses to be upset, that's on him. Okay, that may or may not be good advice. I don't know what the input was, but again, it's a computer telling you this.

[Joe]

And what if he caught her like having a threesome on the kitchen table? Then, right then, you know, well, it's up to him to deal with his own emotions. You shouldn't feel guilty. Let's wait a minute.

[Jack]

Some of the responses, some of the responses were, oh yeah, I use it every single day in trying to talk to my husband. Somebody said it's teaching me communication skills I wish I had when I was younger. Okay, so you're seeing a, a benefit out of it. Sure. Another one.

[Joe]

I program this. Oh, go ahead.

[Jack]

I programmed my AI bot to assume Taylor Swift's identity. So I get advice from her.

[Joe]

What? I almost used a naughty word. Yeah, Wait a minute, wait a minute. Yeah, I'm gonna set mine to Mick Jagger and see what advice Mick has for me in my marriage.

[Jack]

Harvey Weinstein.

[Joe]

Yeah. Oh, lord, no, no. Icky.

[Jack]

And a number of people saying, yeah. Chat GPT is my therapist now. I come home every day and tell Chat GPT, you know, everything that happened at work like with a co worker with my husband or my kids or whatever, and they, it listens really good and gives me some good suggestions on one end. I think this gets a little bit to the. What I'm always saying that I think therapy is mostly bogus. I'm not 100% against it. I got a guy I talk to every week, so. But 90% of it is crap. It's either just like the most obvious thing any human being would tell you if you ask them or it's just co signing your bullshit. As they say in the therapy world of you come in and complain. And the therapist says, you're right, your sister is a witch. You know.

[Joe]

See you next week.

[Jack]

See you next week.

[Katie]

That's 50 bucks.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah, no kidding. For the sake of the argument though, I mean, like Judy and I have been married for a very long time. We're going to have our 40th anniversary next year. We were married when we were both 11. We had to get our grandparents permission to get married. We were going to get our parents, but they were only 17. So anyway, that's how I've been married for 40 years because I'm very young and vital. But anyway, I could see saying, hey, what are some tips for keeping a long term marriage fresh in middle age, going in the boudoir you got to.

[Jack]

Bring in a third. No, a younger.

[Joe]

Why I don't ask. This is why I don't ask you. And I'm gonna ask. You know, the chat GPT and I'm sure it could good advice about alternate. Like a friend of mine did this with an actual counselor and suggested you alternate. You know, every week, every two weeks you plan date night. Then, then it's her turn to stuff like that. I could see it generating some good advice like that.

[Jack]

How does it not very quickly become. I mean you'd have to have the right kind of guy. I don't know that many guys that would ever do this, but living in Davis, California, I do know guys that would do it. She's using chat GPT for a response, then you're using chat GPT for a response and they're just talking to each other. But that gets pretty weird pretty fast.

[Joe]

I don't know. I think in this scenario the chat GPT wouldn't be like giving you all your words. It would be helping you understand the guidelines for productive communication.

[Jack]

Here's the one.

[Joe]

This is all theoretical for me. I've never tried it and probably won't, but I'm curious to know how it actually fleshes out.

[Jack]

Here's the thing I'm certain of. If you can talk to your chat GPT, your and. And get the, the feeling some of these people seem to express that they're getting. You're obviously less likely to talk to an actual human being, your friend or your sister or whoever it is you used to talk to about these things. I keep presenting it as a woman, like it's only a woman thing. But isn't it just absolutely guaranteed to make less human inaction interaction happen? Because now you don't have to take your kind of troubling. You wish you didn't have to tell your friends about it problems to them. You just take it to chat GPT.

[Katie]

Yeah. And you're not worried about it being repeated or anything of that nature?

[Joe]

Yep. Might it eliminate the sort of phony over expensive counseling that you were talking about?

[Jack]

It's that there's an upside that could happen. Maybe it does. If I'm a just a medium grade, I got a one year degree therapist out there making good money on giving people pretty obvious advice or co signing their bullshit. You might be out of work because ChatGPT can do that.

[Joe]

I could see, you know, sites developed that would, you know, tout that. Hey, we scanned the best, you know, counseling information available. This is all we do is counseling you're not going to get weird, you know, Internet results or whatever. Here we've compiled the database of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I could see that being, you know, fairly valuable again, depending how it actually works.

[Katie]

I also like that this cuts down on. I don't know if you've ever been in this situation, Jack, when you're talking to somebody, but it's like you have that 30 minute window or that hour window and like in the first 10 you cover what's been bothering you and you're just kind of sitting there like, so how's everything else? This kind of cuts all that crap out too, right?

[Jack]

Yeah, I, I don't know, I feel like there's. I, I haven't tried it either, so I suppose I'd have to to know this, but I feel like Chat GPT is not going to have any follow up questions where Chat GPT where the therapist knows you, maybe if they've been working you with you for a long time, knows you, knows your tendencies, knows your strengths and weaknesses and maybe asks the kind of follow up question that Chat GPT couldn't. So you come in and you tell some story about your husband being a, you know, a jerk. And maybe your therapist who knows you says, well, you remember last week when you bought that thing and he was upset about it. He might still just be upset about that. Like that's the sort of like in depth follow up I don't think you're gonna get from an AI bot. Like understand your personality, strengths and weaknesses.

[Joe]

You know, it's interesting. I was. Is this Google? Yeah, I think this is Google. I got to change my default search engine on my iPhone. I was just googling. How can I freshen up a long term marriage? There's an ad for a counseling place.

[Jack]

A swing like you put it bolted into the ceiling.

[Joe]

Yeah, sex dungeon, clearly. Get your wife back. How to win your wife back. She hasn't left yet. I just want to freshen it. Oh, there's focus on the family, but that's sponsored too. That's Christian family counseling. Give your partner grace. Practice self care. Connect in the bedroom. Now we're talking younger fitter. No, stop it with that perv. Wait a minute. In this one she's already dating someone new. No, that's beyond repair. Date night should be exciting and different rather than the standard dinner and a movie. Oh, thank you. We never go to movies. Oh, that's Quora. That's dumb.

[Jack]

So.

[Joe]

But it didn't even ask AI. Sometimes when you search something on.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Although I was just, I just like searched yesterday. When does Illinois play Kentucky in the NCAA men's basketball tournament? It needed AI for that, but for how do you freshen up a long term marriage? It just sent me to kind of rote results.

[Jack]

Right.

[Katie]

So was that chat GPT specific that they were talking to? Is that what the most. So I just went on and searched AI therapist and I am on a website called Abby and it looks like it's about to put me through. It said, we're going to ask you some questions to know your algorithm. And please know I've been trained on over 7,800 therapy books and research papers. I can, I can reference almost everything that's been written about therapy to help you with whatever's bothering you.

[Jack]

You know, from that standpoint, as cynical as I am about this, that's got to be a more knowledgeable entity than your average therapist you go to.

[Katie]

Yeah. And it said, now it's saying, let's customize your algorithm to fit your goals and preferred style.

[Joe]

Hmm.

[Jack]

Maybe I'll try this, like, I'll try this with my. Around my son, like a bunch of examples of various things and then say, what should I do in this situation and see what sort of advice I get.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Jack]

See if I think it's worth a dam or.

[Joe]

Yeah. I mean, in theory, as always, instead of the distilled knowledge of mankind coming to you through a dipshit who couldn't make a living any other way, the therapist you've just hired, which is not all therap, are a few that are fantastic. And if, if that's you, that's what we're talking about, you're great, don't bother with your angry email. But instead of, you know, having that knowledge distilled and passed through that the aforementioned dipshit, you have it through what is allegedly perhaps a neutral source that won't filter it through their own life experience because they secretly hate their father.

[Katie]

I'm going to play with this. This thing. This is. Yeah, dude, it says what she said.

[Joe]

Happy bir, Happy birthday.

[Katie]

That and left my mouth. Oh my God.

[Joe]

That's my gift to you.

[Katie]

Thank you.

[Jack]

That's what she said also.

[Katie]

Oh, boy. So back to this.

[Jack]

Yeah. What they said.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Katie]

It's asking me, who do you want me to be? A professional therapist? An empathetic friend? A tough coach, A mindfulness guru, problem solver, or a philosophical guide? So it's kind of giving you like asking kind of how do you want me to flow with how you're Talking to me.

[Jack]

Right?

[Joe]

Oh, my gosh.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I'm warming to this.

[Katie]

Yeah, I. I am, too, unfortunately.

[Jack]

And I don't know why that would be any different than therapist shopping. Like, I know some people do. You go to somebody that's, like, a little too much of a hard ass, and you fire them and go on to a next person until you find someone that's the, you know, a style you do want.

[Katie]

Yeah, maybe.

[Joe]

You want the name of this again.

[Jack]

This is called the Abbey ABB of Humankind Dot com.

[Katie]

Right. That one.

[Joe]

I'm sorry. AAB What?

[Katie]

Abby?

[Joe]

A B, B, Y. Oh, it's the dear thing.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Katie]

But I mean, it's really. It's going in depth to find out how I want them to act and, like, what kind of, you know, am I looking for clinical help? Do I want cognitive behavioral help?

[Jack]

Wow.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Wow. I need to look into that for one of my kids. Yeah, I'm intrigued.

[Jack]

I am, too. So I've been turned around. I don't mind this as much because it's. I mean, if you're willing to Google and go to a legit website and read about it and feel like you've done research, this is just, like, boiling it down for you. It's. It's doing all the research and bringing the best stuff. What I don't like is the idea of it giving me advice on what I should be saying. It just seems weird.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah. Feeding you lines is definitely crossing a line. Katie, has it asked you for money yet?

[Katie]

No, not yet. That's what I'm waiting for, but it looks like I'm at the end of it. See, what I want to know is if there's, like, a free version of this where it's like, yeah, we'll kind of help you out. But like you said earlier, for 9.99amonth.

[Jack]

Or does it hit on you at any point? Remember that thing from the New York Times a year or so ago where that. Was it a woman or a man? But anyway, the chatbot suggested that they leave their house. Yeah.

[Katie]

Yeah. Okay, start chatting. No, I was not asked for a credit card. It's finalizing my personalized AI therapist, and that looks like that's it.

[Jack]

How is it making any money?

[Katie]

I don't know. There's a lot of ads across the whole page, you know, so maybe that's how they're doing it.

[Jack]

Right.

[Joe]

Yeah. I'm not finding it.

[Jack]

We're also in the early days of this sort of stuff where they just want to get you hooked on their product. I mean, it's worth. It'd be worth it to any of these AI bots just to have you get in the habit of using it. It'd be like trying to think of an example, but, like, you know, sometimes with new products, they don't. They don't charge very much to get you started.

[Katie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

What's the actual site?

[Katie]

It's Talk, Abby. A B, B Y dot gg.

[Jack]

God, this cg.

[Joe]

What is. That's the. Like the Georgian mafia or something.

[Katie]

I don't know.

[Jack]

North Korea for sure.

[Katie]

This is basically Kim Jong Un in my computer.

[Jack]

This is gonna put a lot of therapists out of work, guaranteed.

[Joe]

People that log in, people that can't.

[Jack]

Afford therapy, and that is many, many people, because it's crazy expensive, are going to lean on this and just.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah, text me the link. I'm old, Katie. It'll take you all day trying to explain it to me.

[Katie]

Okay, I'll help you out.

[Jack]

So here's a callback Joe mentioned earlier. He would text me. He texted me, hey, Jack, we should talk privately after work today. I'm really worried about something, and I was given the suggestion of, sure, let's talk, or sure, I'm here. Both of them. Perfectly fine responses.

[Joe]

How about keep it to yourself, you whiner? Who dis I lose my number?

[Jack]

Yeah, and see, I'm uncomfortable with that. I don't so far. I'm going to craft my own words, but I'm sure at some point when I'm busy, I'm going to see a response. That's basically what I was going to say, and I'm going to fire it off. And then I've crossed thy line.

[Katie]

Happy birthday, Katie.

[Joe]

You know, as the youngest person on.

[Jack]

The staff, watching you grow further into.

[Joe]

Womanhood these past two years has been.

[Jack]

A real joy cringe.

[Joe]

Oh, my God.

[Katie]

Oh.

[Jack]

Did Chat GPT tell you to say that? Wow.

[Joe]

Delete it.

[Jack]

Womanhood. I guess that's it.