Beating An Ox

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand: "Beating An Ox" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: April 25, 2025
Host/Authors: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts

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1. Introduction to Current Geopolitical Tensions

In the episode titled "Beating An Ox," hosts Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty delve into the escalating geopolitical tensions between the United States, China, and Russia, with a particular focus on the ongoing trade war, military confrontations, and foreign espionage concerns.

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2. Trump's Trade War with China

Discussion Highlights:

• Impact of Tariffs:
  Armstrong and Getty analyze President Trump's assertions that his administration is actively negotiating with Chinese officials to reduce tariffs. They contrast this with Chinese officials' stance, suggesting a lack of genuine dialogue.

• Manufacturing Dependencies:
  The conversation touches upon the heavy reliance on Chinese manufacturing for American products, especially in sectors like baby products. Getty mentions, "Practically everything was made in China" ([03:23]).

Notable Quotes:

• Jack Armstrong ([02:03]):
  "Who's gonna get hit the hardest with the China tariff thing if it continues, which is a hell of a big if."

• Joe Getty ([03:11]):
  "I bought my Target stock after Sam was born. It was just like, how many times a week are we going to Target to buy things with a baby?"

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3. Geopolitical Tensions: China and Taiwan

Discussion Highlights:

• Kinmen Islands Situation:
  The hosts discuss the strategic significance of the Kinmen Islands, a Taiwanese archipelago near the Chinese coast, highlighting China's increasing military pressure and the potential for conflict.

• Potential for War:
  Getty expresses concern over China's readiness to escalate, comparing it to sibling bullying, while Armstrong emphasizes the improbability of the U.S. militarily countering China in this region.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Getty ([05:10]):
  "China goes to take Taiwan. They're just going to take it. We're not positioned to stop them."

• Jack Armstrong ([05:24]):
  "It's just, what the hell? They’re absolutely poised and ready."

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4. China's Restrictions on Christianity

Discussion Highlights:

• Armstrong briefly mentions China's crackdown on Christian missionary activities, labeling the Chinese Communist Party's actions as oppressive.

Notable Quotes:

• Jack Armstrong ([07:06]):
  "China is asshole, in short, sir. Yes, yes, that's, that's true."

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5. The Coffee Craze in China

Discussion Highlights:

• Emerging Coffee Culture:
  The hosts explore the burgeoning coffee scene in China, noting the introduction of unconventional flavors aimed at appealing to local tastes.

• Starbucks and Local Variants:
  They discuss the localization of global coffee brands like Starbucks, which are experimenting with unique blends such as pineapple-infused Americanos and butter lattes.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Getty ([08:35]):
  "But butter latte? But wait, Jack, it tastes made with French butter. I would try that."

• Jack Armstrong ([08:48]):
  "Roasted duck, plums, cheese. The bizarre brews fueling China's coffee war."

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6. US Universities and Chinese Influence

Discussion Highlights:

• Foreign Funding and Espionage:
  Armstrong and Getty criticize major US universities for their dependence on Chinese and Qatari funding, suggesting this relationship facilitates espionage and compromises academic integrity.

• Visa Revocations:
  They discuss recent actions to revoke visas of Chinese students and faculty amidst growing suspicions of espionage activities.

Notable Quotes:

• Jack Armstrong ([11:08]):
  "It's an enormous, like, heroin pipeline of cash."

• Joe Getty ([11:36]):
  "They’re addicted to the cash. There's no way to be. It's more like being a crack ho than a shame."

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7. The US-Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Discussion Highlights:

• Trump's Peace Proposal:
  The hosts dissect President Trump's peace plan for the Ukraine conflict, which includes prohibiting NATO membership for Ukraine and demanding territorial concessions. They assess the feasibility and potential reception of such a proposal.

• Zelensky's Stance:
  Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's rejection of Trump's proposal is analyzed, emphasizing Ukraine's unwillingness to cede sovereignty for peace.

• David Ignatius' Analysis:
  Getty references David Ignatius' piece in the Washington Post, outlining a possible framework for peace that includes maintaining Russian administration over occupied regions without formal sovereignty transfers.

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Trump ([21:11]):
  "When you say Crimea, that was handed over during a president named Barack Hussein Obama..."

• Jack Armstrong ([23:07]):
  "If I'm Vladimir Putin, I'm thinking, all I'm getting is, Vladimir, don't. And I'm gobbling up territory not very fast, and it's bloody."

• Joe Getty ([29:20]):
  "Ukraine could have been provided armaments that would have helped them push Russia back further earlier and it would be a completely different negotiating situation."

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8. Recent Developments and Espionage Concerns

Discussion Highlights:

• Assassination of a Russian General:
  The conversation shifts to the mysterious explosion that killed a top Russian general involved in Ukraine, speculating on possible sabotage or espionage links.

• Chinese Recruitment of US Officials:
  Armstrong warns about Chinese intelligence posing as consulting firms to recruit former US government employees, raising alarms about national security breaches.

Notable Quotes:

• Jack Armstrong ([13:17]):
  "Chinese intelligence may be trying to recruit fired U.S. officials."

• Joe Getty ([33:40]):
  "Need to do brake pads. And so I don't know if that has anything to do with any of the things we're doing."

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9. The Death of the Pope and Its Coverage

Discussion Highlights:

• Media Focus:
  Armstrong and Getty critique mainstream media's extensive coverage of the Pope's death, questioning its relevance compared to ongoing geopolitical crises.

• Prospects for the Next Pope:
  Getty shares his hope for an African Pope, believing it would shift global attention to pressing issues in Africa.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Getty ([35:43]):
  "I think this would be good for the world to have the first African Pope."

• Jack Armstrong ([36:34]):
  "Da Vinci Code. There's your answer right there."

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10. Nostalgia for Traditional Telephones

Discussion Highlights:

• Evolution of Telephony:
  The hosts reminisce about the era of rotary and early push-button phones, contrasting them with today's digital communication methods.

• Cultural Reflections:
  They reflect on how the centrality of telephones in past decades influenced personal relationships and societal interactions.

Notable Quotes:

• Jack Armstrong ([15:33]):
  "Telephone numbers will be changed. Before calling any number, first secure the number from your new directory."

• Joe Getty ([17:45]):
  "Nostalgia is an interesting thing, trying to separate things that may have actually been better from. It just feels better because it's what was happening when you were younger."

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11. Closing Remarks

Armstrong and Getty wrap up the episode by reiterating their critiques of current geopolitical strategies and media focus, emphasizing the need for heightened awareness and proactive measures to safeguard national interests.

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Conclusion

"Beating An Ox" offers a comprehensive analysis of pressing international issues, blending sharp political commentary with lighter, nostalgic conversations. Armstrong and Getty provide listeners with insightful perspectives on trade wars, military tensions, espionage, and cultural shifts, all while maintaining an engaging and dynamic dialogue.

Notable Moments:

• Trade War Analysis: [02:03] – [03:23]
• China-Taiwan Military Tensions: [04:49] – [07:06]
• Espionage in Academia: [10:03] – [12:18]
• US-Russia-Ukraine Conflict Deep Dive: [19:14] – [29:36]
• Media Coverage Critique: [34:20] – [35:49]
• Nostalgic Phone Conversations: [15:33] – [19:07]

This episode is a must-listen for those interested in understanding the intricate dynamics shaping today's global landscape, presented through the seasoned lenses of Armstrong and Getty.

Transcript

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[Jack Armstrong]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln radio studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Joe Getty]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

And now here's Armstrong and Getty. Major questions about Trump's trade war with China and what is really going on. The President claiming that his administration is meeting with Chinese officials to try to get tariffs lowered. But that's not what the Chinese are saying. The Chinese are liars. Back to China in a moment.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Always have been, always will be. I was just reading Ian Bremmer's analysis of the whole tariff China thing is this is going to cause China a great deal of pain short term. Ian says they're going to benefit from him long. Benefit from it long term. But I don't know if there's going to be a long term. So.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I. Well, I tell you what, let's go ahead and play the groovy theme first. It's look inside the China cabinet, Jack. Cleverly named China. That's right. It's a series of stories about our greatest geopolitical adversary.

[Joe Getty]

Don't trust China. Oh, I see, don't. I see. You're talking about the nation of China as opposed to like the plates and dishes commonly referred to as China.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes, you've caught on. Yes. And it's quite a number of stories, Jack. Feel free to comment as you like. We can digress on any one or just zip through either way. I thought this was interesting and we'll Begin briefly, at least with tariffs. You know, who's gonna get hit the hardest with the. The China tariff thing if it continues, which is a hell of a big if. Who knows is young parents everything. Strollers, cribs, toys, baby products is made in China. An astounding amount of the stuff is.

[Joe Getty]

I bought my Target stock after Sam was born. It was just like, how many times a week are we going to target to buy things with a baby? But practically everything, I'm sure, was made in China.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. So there are a few countries beside China with their manufacturing prowess, which is undeniable, that can efficiently meet the strictest baby product safety standards on earth, the American safety standards. China's really good at building strollers that conform to all that stuff. And. And, you know, you can get some crappy toy that'll break the first time your kid plays with it from virtually anywhere. You know, and I don't want to name any countries. I'm not here to disparage anybody.

[Joe Getty]

But Malaysia, we're looking at you. Malaysia.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, boy. If you want something sturdy and passes safety standards, you're probably going to look to China. So we shall see how that develops. Now, on to more serious fare. Clearly, nobody knows about Kinmen Islands. Island. I think it's an archipelago. It's several islands. Kinmen, a Taiwanese archipelago about two miles off the Chinese coast. I'm reminded of recently reading the Cane Mutiny, which is about World War II, in which a number of the battles and campaigns they referenced are familiar to any history buff. And there's an old saying that war is how Americans learn geography. Well, we all might learn about Kinmen, this series of islands between China and Taiwan as the Chinese navy and coast guard is getting increasingly belligerent about practically pulling onto their beaches.

[Joe Getty]

I know you. You weren't here a couple of Fridays ago when your nation needed you. You were watching a golf contest somewhere. But that's when I had Mike lines on it. And his. His take was, China goes to take Taiwan. They're just going to take it. We're not positioned to stop them.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. I'm reminded of a big brother bullying a little brother and bringing his fist right up to the kid's face and doing it again and again and again. And all it's going to take is for China to go ahead and slug the kid, if you know what I mean. They're. They're absolutely poised and ready.

[Joe Getty]

Well, part of it is our lack of appetite for an actual war, which I completely understand and share, but he was talking about, well, if. Did this. And then China would probably attack the West Coast. Like, whoa. I mean, that's just so mind blowing as an American. The idea of California, you know, bombs falling in LA or San Francisco, and.

[Jack Armstrong]

It'S just, what the hell?

[Joe Getty]

But you know, look at the news in Ukraine. It happens in various places around the world, right?

[Jack Armstrong]

So wait, there's more. So China claims its coast guard is carrying out routine law enforcement, but the real purpose is clearly to challenge Taiwan's jurisdiction over its own islands. The patrols create opportunities for escalation. If China wants to send a message, blah, blah, blah. It's a dangerous game, especially with American special forces stationed right now on Kinmen. So China could demand that the US and Taipei demilitarize the islands, betting that Mr. Trump would withdraw the troops and urge Taiwan to give away the island rather than risk a larger confrontation. So we have some of our best and brightest there right now as China is menacing the very beaches of Tinmen.

[Joe Getty]

I don't want to get sidetracked on this completely, but can you imagine the cultural change that would happen in America? I think for generations if bombs were falling in la, San Francisco, San Diego, Seattle, wherever from China?

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Getty]

I mean, that would be. So it'd be a wake up to me and I expect this sort of thing in my lifetime. For most people who just can't even imagine that ever happening, it'd be, holy crap, we're, we're vulnerable too, just like every other human on earth.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, yeah, really, since the War of 1812, I mean, it's, I mean, the Civil War, it's hardly been an issue we think about at all, other than a couple of fairly minor submarine incursions in WW2. But yeah, the idea of the fighting being on our homeland or the bombings or whatever, yeah, it's crazy. Moving along, China has moved to formally end all Christian missionary activities. The Chinese Communist Party is imposing severe restrictions on Christians in the country because they are godless commies and utterly evil to their core. China is asshole, in short, sir. Yes, yes, that's, that's true. So in, in lighter fare, because virtually everything's lighter fare, there's. Coffee has become incredibly popular in China in the last few years. There's a giant coffee craze.

[Joe Getty]

Did they not drink it before? Did the Chinese just discover coffee?

[Jack Armstrong]

They're all about tea.

[Joe Getty]

That's right.

[Jack Armstrong]

All the tea in China, Perhaps you've heard the expression. So they mentioned these coffee wars now between all the coffee shops that have sprung up. What they're trying to do is come up with the latest hot flavor. And they open the article with this Beijinger drinking Starbucks mochas to power through the day. Today she downs Americanos doused in pineapple juice and lattes blended with French butter.

[Joe Getty]

What?

[Jack Armstrong]

A pineapple coffee or a butter latte?

[Joe Getty]

But wait, Jack, it tastes made with French butter. I would try that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Roasted duck, plums, cheese. The bizarre brews fueling China's coffee war.

[Joe Getty]

Crow beaks. You just get a. You get an espresso shop and you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Stir it with the crow beaks. Wow. Roasted duck flavored coffee. Niac. Let's see, you got fizzy Americano made with apples, lime butter latte, grapes butter.

[Joe Getty]

I didn't know. I guess I should have assumed that there were Starbucks in China.

[Jack Armstrong]

But duck flavored? Dude, put back the duck coffee.

[Joe Getty]

I would like to know, does the Starbucks in China have unlocked bathrooms? Do they have a civilized enough society where you can have a bathroom like every business in America was until a couple of years ago?

[Jack Armstrong]

What are you Tucker Carlson now praising totalitarian regimes because their bathrooms are cleaner? Please. It's an interesting question, though. Moving along, bro.

[Joe Getty]

Put your dice back.

[Jack Armstrong]

There it is. Finally. Thank you, Michael. Better late than never, huh? Chinese students on US campuses are ensnared.

[Joe Getty]

In a political standoff.

[Jack Armstrong]

Some say their visas have been revoked in recent weeks. Beijing is warning other nationals to reconsider study plans in America. This is a topic I would like to hammer over and over again. How. And we're going to get into it more later, and if not today, next week. How? Major universities are absolute. It's a harsh word, folks, forgive me, absolute sluts for foreign money. Specifically China and Qatar. The Chinese Communists and the Qatari Islamists, they are Islamic supremacists. They just wear Western suits and go at it a different way. They have so thoroughly addicted some of our major universities to their money. They dare not teach against them. They're. They're lap dogs. And one in four, one in every four international student comes in, the US Comes from China. One in four. And the US has been running a large service surplus for China with China for years partly because of the billions of dollars that Chinese households spend on schooling in the US Right. It is an enormous, like, heroin pipeline of cash.

[Joe Getty]

They pay full freight.

[Jack Armstrong]

And yeah, so anyway, both the young Chinese communist boys and girls and their overlords are panicking a little bit. And their university overlords, because it's been such a mutually beneficial scam, China gets to import a lot of would be spies. Whether willing or unwilling, the universities get to Piles and piles of money. And we get to, you know, cash into our system.

[Joe Getty]

I don't know why you had to drop the S bomb, but to make your point.

[Jack Armstrong]

Spies.

[Joe Getty]

Slut.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh. Oh, it was. I thought it was a powerful metaphor. No.

[Joe Getty]

A couple more universities be doing the walk of shame here in a couple of years and having to.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, yeah, they will. But instead of wearing last night's clothes and questioning their lives. Decision. Life's decisions, they're gonna. They're infiltrated with Chinese spies and they're addicted to the cash. There's no way to be. It's more like being a crack ho than a shame. Yes, shame, lady. It's more like being a crack hoe. Then you know, a CO head who got a bit loose last night.

[Joe Getty]

Wow. Walking down the street carrying your shoes, make up a mess. Looking for more students.

[Jack Armstrong]

And I will keep this brief. Chinese scientists in America come under new wave of suspicion. FBI scrutiny and visa revocations are worrying STEM researchers as China looks to recruit them to come home. Yeah, well, a lot of the researchers are either spies or they're going to be spies. The minute Beijing calls and says, hey, we need you to send us a copy of that paper you're working on? That's the problem. And finally this. There are strong indications that. You remember the Doge thing when they were laying off a bunch of people and that was the biggest problem in the world for about a cup of duck flavored coffee. Put the duck back. Right. Chinese intelligence may be trying to recruit fired U.S. officials. An advisory says that foreign agencies are posing as consulting firms, think tanks and other organizations to connect with former government employees who may or may not be disgruntled and looking for some sort of work.

[Joe Getty]

Hmm.

[Jack Armstrong]

So the Chinese equivalent of the CIA is saying, hey, you know what? We really. We've admired your work for a long, long time. We're starting a think tank. We'd love to have little of your expertise. And I've read about this, studied this for years, how they get you. They have you doing completely innocent stuff, and then they have you doing stuff that has just the tinge of. I'm not sure I'm supposed to. Well, and then they ask you to do something a little more improper, and then you're a full on espionage agent and you have such a trail of. Oh, my God, did I do that? Behind you. You're. You're on the hook. That's a look inside the China cabinet.

[Joe Getty]

I didn't realize they're just coming around to coffee there in China. That'll be a big deal for, you know, a lot of your big coffee companies around the world. You know, Colombia's got to be excited about that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Your Columbia Peruse. Yes.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, maybe. You were into the NFL draft? I'm into the Pope draft, the Cardinal draft for who's going to be the next Pope, among other things. On the way. Stay here.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Gettysburg. The telephones in this city will be changed.

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[Jack Armstrong]

Telephone numbers will be changed. Before calling any number, first secure the number from your new directory. Then remove the receiver and listen for the dial tone. It sounds like this. With the receiver off the hook, dial the desired number. Be sure to allow the dial to freely return to its normal position. And this is the ringing signal. If the line is busy, you'll hear this busy signal.

[Joe Getty]

That's from 1936. What I was just trying to figure out in my head, what age would you have? What's the cutoff for having had that experience? Michael, you just turned 50. Have you used a rotary phone? Yeah, I did. I was like five. You're a little kid. Yeah. So I'm thinking like 45 and under. You've probably never used a rotary phone.

[Jack Armstrong]

I can still remember our first push button phone. Is that what you'd call it? Right.

[Joe Getty]

And I was kind of thinking that's about the time Chinese crap came into our lives. Or, or foreign crap. Anyway, I mean, man, those old timey phones were a piece of Heavy duty, indestructible equipment.

[Jack Armstrong]

As I've said many times, those old AT&T phones, you could beat an ox to death with it and then call your grandmother. Barbaric.

[Joe Getty]

They were solid, man. And then, like, you get into the 90s and you had cordless phones, just the cheapest, lightest, thinnest, crappiest plastic on earth?

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, boy.

[Jack Armstrong]

Where was the phone in your kitchen when you were a teenager, hoping a girl might call you or call you back? I can picture it because I stared at it so much.

[Joe Getty]

I never had any hope of that. But, yeah, by the way, green, any kind. Yellow. Mustard yellow was ours. But yeah, if you're gonna have a phone conversation, it was gonna be in the kitchen because that's where the phone was on the cord.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, that was your problem. No girl's gonna call a mustard yellow phone.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, if only that was my only problem. How much time I got, Michael? Did I use up all my time already?

[Jack Armstrong]

No, you're still alive.

[Joe Getty]

Fanciful minute 30. It's easy to be. Nostalgia is an interesting thing, trying to separate things that may have actually been better from. It just feels better because it's what was happening when you were younger. And separating those two things is difficult, but there were many advantages to the. There's a phone, you know, in the center of our lives. That's where everybody's gonna have their communication. I mean, your wife isn't. Who's she been texting for the last half hour? I mean, there's none of that going on. Everything was just more easily controlled there.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I suppose so, yeah. On the other hand, the advent to the answering machine reduced stress a lot, changed everything.

[Joe Getty]

But. But just from some of the stuff we were doing yesterday about marriages and contempt and all these different sorts of things pre. How did people have even have dalliances back in the day where you couldn't call on the phone, you couldn't send a message, or you can send a letter, Meet me.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's a little more Carcassonne.

[Joe Getty]

But it had to be better, right? I think it had to be better.

[Jack Armstrong]

But horniness and bad decisions still found a way to win Jack, even back then.

[Joe Getty]

Trump, some interesting things to say about Russia and Ukraine that is coming to a head. Possibly. We've got a lot of that coming up.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

The Trump administration has put forward a peace proposal that would prohibit NATO membership.

[Jack Armstrong]

For Ukraine and force Ukraine to give.

[Joe Getty]

Up land that Russia has seized since its invasion, in addition to giving up Crimea.

[Jack Armstrong]

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has rejected the.

[Joe Getty]

Current proposal, saying, we will negotiate, we will not surrender. And we got a lot more on that. There's, there's a tremendous amount happening around Russia and Ukraine. It's, it's going to go one way or the other, like now, like this week or this weekend or maybe today. Trump has an interview in Time magazine, whatever that is now that we can talk a little bit about. But here's some from Trump being asked a variety of questions about this yesterday. Let's just run through these in order. Michael. Right after that, you used the words Vladimir stop. That seemed like a slightly different message, a personal message. What is your level of frustration with President Putin at this point?

[Donald Trump]

I wasn't happy with it. And we're in the midst of talking peace and missiles were fired, and I was not happy with it.

[Joe Getty]

Will you consider additional sanctions toward Russia, or what will you do if President Putin does not respond in a week?

[Donald Trump]

I want to see if we can have a deal.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. And then the New York. So Trump tweets out yesterday, vladimir, stop. And all capitals with exclamation points. This is not helping. The New York Post characterized that as Trump blasts Putin. That's. I wouldn't, wouldn't say that's exactly what happened now.

[Jack Armstrong]

I mean, it was all caps, I'll give you that.

[Joe Getty]

That was one opinion piece yesterday. There's cover today insinuates that Trump's Vladimir, stop was basically the same as Biden's don't. With no teeth behind it, which was. And the Wall Street Journal similar. Here's a little more. Trump.

[Donald Trump]

When you say Crimea, that was handed over during a president named Barack Hussein Obama, that was. Had nothing to do with me. Crimea, that was 11 years ago with Obama. And they made a decision. There wasn't a bullet. There was no fighting, there was no anything. They just handed it over. Now they say, well, can you get it back? I think that's going to be a very difficult thing to do. That was given by Barack Obama when he was president, not by Donald Trump.

[Joe Getty]

Now, why.

[Jack Armstrong]

Sure.

[Joe Getty]

Why he had to throw in the Hussein with Obama.

[Jack Armstrong]

Notice that. Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

At this point. But Bob Woodward, his book that I read about the Biden presidency, said Joe Biden, when Joe Biden was trying to talk Putin out of invading, like the day before he invaded. And he became, it became obvious that Putin was going. No matter what Biden said. Biden got off the phone, hung up the phone and said, effing Barack. It's his fault. He didn't do Anything when Putin took Crimea and it caused all of this. So Biden's belief was Obama not pushing. Oh, Biden got a hold of. Or Obama got a hold of whatever the name of the president was at the time back then in Ukraine and said, don't do anything. We're not backing you. Don't do anything. We'll take care of this, basically. And then nothing ever happened.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. Very Obama. Yeah. Well, Trump wasn't wrong in what he said there.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. We're going to. Going to get to that in a little bit with David Ignatius Washington Post piece, which I think you're going to agree with. Let's roll through the rest of the Trump, and then we'll be done. What concessions has Russia offered up thus.

[Donald Trump]

Far to get to the point where.

[Joe Getty]

You'Re closer to peace?

[Donald Trump]

Stopping the war. Stopping. Taking the whole country. Pretty big concession.

[Joe Getty]

I don't know what I think of that. Russia's concession is not taking the whole country.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. What is the inducement for that? Whether carrot or stick, that's the part that mystifies me a little bit. If I'm Vladimir Putin, I'm thinking, all I'm getting is, Vladimir, don't. And I'm gobbling up territory not very fast, and it's bloody. But I don't mind young men going off to their death for the Russian motherland. I'm. I'm on the front foot here. We're making progress. I'm gonna keep going. Thank you.

[Joe Getty]

Ah, man, you gotta find a different way to couch it. It just doesn't. Let's play the last Trump one there.

[Donald Trump]

I have no allegiance to anybody. I have allegiance to saving lives. And I want to save a lot of lives. A lot of young people, mostly young people. It's the war, it's the soldiers. And if we can do that also, as you know, I get started because the money that's been spent on this war is insane. It's a killing field. 5,000 soldiers a week on average. And we want to stop that.

[Joe Getty]

I heard some of the numbers yesterday. Russia's approaching a million men taken off the battlefield, dead or injured since they started. 970,000. A million men.

[Jack Armstrong]

I mean, we had thousands more fled the country, for what it's worth.

[Joe Getty]

We have giant monuments in Washington, D.C. for tiny fractions of that in various wars we've been involved in because we think it's so horrific with a much bigger population.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right, right. I mean, it's just. Well, it's a different culture, for sure.

[Joe Getty]

God, I'd say the history of Russia being willing to lose lots and lots of young men. It's just astounding. Russia has lost a hundred thousand men from the battlefield this year. It is April. I mean, it's just, it's stunning.

[Jack Armstrong]

Anyway, so some of them North Koreans, by the way, which is its own story.

[Joe Getty]

Did you watch that video came out yesterday?

[Jack Armstrong]

No.

[Joe Getty]

Eight Ukrainian commandos killed 25 North Koreans in their trench. They had GoPros on their heads. And you could watch it. And it's just like those poor freaking North Korean dudes. And they know where they are. They certainly don't know why they're fighting. Right. And. And why would they? That's one interesting thing about this war is the peace process as opposed to the Middle east, or I'm reading about past Middle east peace process where you've got, you know, you've got to massage your own people so much because they're so into the war. There's nobody in Russia happy that this is going on. They'd be happier in hell to have this in. Putin doesn't need to calm a population that wants to keep going because of everything Ukraine has done to us. I don't think it's just they'd be happy to have it come to an end.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. There's a reason he's passed all of those draconian laws about against breathing a word in opposition to the war, because he knows where the public sentiment lies.

[Joe Getty]

Anyway, I was kind of surprised by this writing in the Washington Post today from David Ignatius. There's movement, if not yet agreement, toward the essential land for peace formula that would frame any pact under a US Plan. That's the basis for discussions. Russia would continue to administer the five regions it occupies, though Ukraine wouldn't formally cede sovereignty in any of them. The United States, because on the other side, Zelensky does have to satisfy his population, who, according to polls, pretty willing to fight to the death to keep. To keep Ukraine together. And he can't have anything formally ceding sovereignty and keep people happy. I don't think I'm thinking of the book I'm reading about the late 70s peace process under Carter and with Begin and Sadat. And they actually, they wrote up two different UN resolutions, which was unknown at the time. One for the Egyptian people, one for the Israeli people to feed to their own people.

[Jack Armstrong]

Ah.

[Joe Getty]

To make them feel like they didn't get jobbed.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right, right. As I've pointed out many times, you must look at countries foreign relations through the lens of their domestic situation, because that's what it's all about, obviously, just like the US So Russia would continue.

[Joe Getty]

To hold the five regions that it's taken. Ukraine wouldn't formally seed sovereignty. The United States might implicitly recognize Russia's hold on Crimea. Ukraine wouldn't. Security guarantees would be finessed too. Ukraine wouldn't join NATO, but it would keep the language in its constitution declaring that goal. Russia would accept Ukraine's right to a post war robust security guarantee which would be understood by all to mean European troops. European troops in Ukraine. And there's no mention in the document of Russia's old demand for a neutral demilitarized zone in Ukraine. So that's gone by the wayside. Europe would provide the military side of the security guarantee. The US Plan also envisages an American role on the ground through its operation in the whole nuclear power plant in southern Ukraine, which supply power to both sides. So we would be involved in the power plant which, remember, Trump brought that up a while back because that would be, as David Ignatius says here, this would be an American trip wire. If Russia tried to take the power plant, you'd be crossing the line with us. And the same holds true for the proposal that the U. S Share profits from the minerals, another natural resources. It's an economic power play and gives America a stake in the post war peace that Russia would have to watch out for. So that was a pretty clever thing that they came up with and it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Might be the absolutely vomit worthy, unpalatable best thing you can get. Sometimes things end that way, sometimes the world goes that way.

[Joe Getty]

It's frustrating and I. That's your point, I guess. But it didn't have to be this way. Ukraine could have been provided armaments that would have helped them push Russia back further earlier and it would be a completely different negotiating situation.

[Jack Armstrong]

Correct? Yeah. You know, I haven't appreciated some of the things Trump has done and said, but he was handed a terrible, terrible situation by the feckless, senile mummy Joe Biden and his administration, which made his maneuvering room considerably tighter. Well, I'll just leave that there for now. One thing is an aside that I'm really interested in. I hope I live long enough to see it is the Russian empire, whether it was under the czars or the Soviet Union or the current deal under Putin, who's attempting to reassemble the great Russian empire. It's been held together with brutality and bribes for like, you know, the last century and a half thousand years. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm more familiar with last century and a half. But anyway, what Happens when Putin goes will be really, really interesting to watch because yeah, you've got Ukraine which is ethnically different mostly they do have Russian folks there and Russian speaking folks. Everybody's got a cousin in both countries. It's a close association but not close enough that Ukraine doesn't in overwhelming numbers want to be a completely independent country. Same can be said for a lot of so called Russian provinces that are, they're, they're Muslims, they're, they, they're absolutely not ethnic Russian. They hate Putin, they, they're just again being held together by brutality and bribes. And where all that goes, I mean Russia will continue to be unstable for the rest of our lives. And your kids and grandkids too.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. I've been more on the side of MSNBC's take on this particular story for a while.

[Jack Armstrong]

You're a liberal.

[Joe Getty]

It's an interesting position. So would the left be into this war if it had started under a Republican? That's what I, I don't remember the left last time the left was so into. I mean yesterday on MSNBC with a lot of great guests, they were actually talking about U. S. Ground troops to push Russia out. I mean that's how far they were going.

[Jack Armstrong]

Democrats. Yeah, I, your question is a super interesting one. First blush I'd say no. They'd be staunchly against it if a Republican had been in office.

[Joe Getty]

That's what I wonder.

[Jack Armstrong]

They're just knee jerk tribalists Anyway.

[Joe Getty]

A lot of the talk of this is Trump being Neville Chamberlain appeasing Hitler. Well, the big difference was Hitler had built the biggest war machine in all of Europe and everybody knew he had the most powerful military in Europe. Russia does not. They have been decimated. So they're not going to march across Europe if they're appeased.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right, right. Ugly as hell.

[Joe Getty]

Before we take a break, do you think you do a peace deal and then Russia violates it at some point and tries to take more?

[Jack Armstrong]

Eventually 100% of Putin lives another five years.

[Joe Getty]

But you think he'd wait out Trump to the next person.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, and. Or make the sort of small incursions, kind of sowing seeds for bigger incursions down the road. But yeah, he'd start on that project right away.

[Joe Getty]

I keep forgetting to talk about the Pope and we got a bunch of other stuff too. We're going to break down the second round of the draft now. Or four. Stay with us.

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Armstrong and Getty.

[Joe Getty]

One clip. We didn't play Trump yesterday. He's asked about, you know, what are you, what pressure Are you putting on Russia? And he said things you don't know about. Basically he said we're just doing things you don't know today. And I don't know if this has anything to do with it. Oh, Witkoff arrives in Moscow as one of the very top Russian generals who is in charge of the battle plan for Ukraine blows up. His car blows up. I've seen the picture. I mean his car just disintegrated him.

[Jack Armstrong]

And probably a clogged fuel filter.

[Joe Getty]

Right, right. He must had one of those lithium batteries you're not supposed to have or something.

[Jack Armstrong]

The check engine light was on. He ignored it.

[Joe Getty]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

Kurt Bluey.

[Joe Getty]

Right. Need to do brake pads. And so I don't know if that has anything to do with any of the things we're doing. You don't know about behind the scenes putting pressure on Russia. But one of their generals blew up.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Speaking of warfare, one of the biggest hawks against Iran in Washington is a big bald headed Democrat plus conservative professor tells us how to save Harvard. Apparently there is a conservative professor and he wrote something. Stay with us.

[Joe Getty]

I've been keeping track of how many days in a row the Pope's death leads the evening newscast and so far every day since Saturday since the idiot.

[Jack Armstrong]

David Muir and his idiot newscast on ABC last night devoted like six minutes to it.

[Joe Getty]

Right. And they're traveling there and gonna be live from there. The funeral is tomorrow. Trump is on the way to Italy right now with a lot of other world leaders. So it's going to be at least a full week of it being the lead story. And it's not like we're during a, a news lull.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Joe Getty]

At all. And it's still the lead story, which is kind of interesting to me. You said their audience is old. That's true. They're centered in New York, higher per percentage of Catholics in the Northeast. All that stuff is true. I'm still, I'm still kind of surprised by it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, and it's, it's like uncontroversial and easy. It's like a killer storm is crossing the Midwest. There's that.

[Joe Getty]

I missed that part. That's the thing. Cheryl Atkinson, after she left CBS News says those stories are because there's no pushback weather stuff like this. There's just, nobody pushes back. So it's just easy and still line people standing in line for 7, 10, 12 hours to walk by the, the dead Pope and see him with their families or whatever there in Rome. And that's, that's its own interesting thing. Do you have any opinion on who the next Pope is?

[Jack Armstrong]

No. Zero. Zero don't care. I do.

[Joe Getty]

And this is what I'm hoping for. I think this would be good for. First of all, I've always been fascinated by the idea of all of these, in theory, selfless men. And they're all men, because that's the deal. Selfless men choosing someone to be the biggest job you could ever have in your life. And in theory, you know, not having any ambition toward it. It's just like, you know, trying to let God speak to you and make a decision that way. What's best for the Catholic Church? What's best, best for. And I wonder how much of that is true and how much ambition slips in and all that sort of stuff. I. I've always been fascinated by that.

[Jack Armstrong]

I would love to know you. Da Vinci Code. There's your answer right there.

[Joe Getty]

Ah, that's funny. Love that book. I don't know how accurate it is. I'm hoping. I think it would be good for the world to have the first African Pope. Somebody from that. That's a God forsaken continent. I think some African Pope, because the Pope gets so much attention, as we've seen this week, being able to call attention to the wars, the just all the problems they've got in Africa. I think that'd be helpful for the planet.

[Jack Armstrong]

Interesting take. Yeah, I don't care. Not because I don't think anybody should care. I just don't have the bandwidth. There are other things I'm more interested in. But I wish the Catholic world good luck in choosing a great new Pope. A lot of good stuff. Next hour. If you don't get next hour, you gotta go somewhere. Subscribe to the podcast Armstrong and Getty on demand. Armstrong and Gettysburg.