Jack Armstrong (2:11)

Yeah. I think he actually believes what he's pitching now.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (2:15)

Did he always believe that and he was keeping it quiet? Certain. Didn't seem like it.

Jack Armstrong (2:19)

No idea. No. No, it didn't. This seems to be some sort of change. The idea of fawning over Vladimir Putin and what a wonderful place Russia is is just. That is so Looney Tunes. It's difficult to explain by. I mean, it's either mental illness or an ideological capture of some sort. But the. The other character that fascinates me in a weird way is Candace Owens, who we met once. We did an. An event with her. Extremely articulate and confident. I think it was Rich Lowry in the National Review. And we'll, we'll touch on this in a minute. Points out that confident to the point of just being way, way, way over the top.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (3:02)

Well, we were in a green room with her for 45 minutes, quite a while and it was just Joe, me, her and like her assistant.

Jack Armstrong (3:11)

I think it's like four of us in a room.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (3:13)

She was incredibly standoffish, like just not willing to engage in any conversation whatsoever.

Jack Armstrong (3:20)

And work in the phone.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (3:21)

But now I know she's a complete weirdo. I mean she's a very strange person.

Jack Armstrong (3:25)

So here are a couple examples. I don't remember what's in the audio that we're about to play you which is entitled all the questions Candace Owens is just asking which if you're not hip to this is a way that people can say things that are, they know will be greeted as horrifying. But they just say I'm just asking the questions. It's, it's just, it's transparent once you become aware of it. Uh, whether it's a fake historian claiming that Hitler was really a good guy and didn't mean for a few Jews to die or, or whatever. But like, like Kansas Kandace lately, if you're not familiar with her act, has said, and I quote, I'm starting to think that the assassination of Charlie Kirk was something akin to a regicide. Right. The assassination of a king to install a new ruler who the king would never have approved of. And the new ruler of Turning Point USA turns out to be Kirk's widow, Erica Kirk and Owens has argued the Turning Point is covering up its involvement in Kirk's assassination and that Erica Kirk knows she also then she says but it's a vile smear to suggest she's implicated Erica Kirk and her husband's assassination. But she's just asking questions. Why don't we go ahead and play this audio and then we'll follow up. Go ahead Michael. 12.

Michael (Guest or contributor) (4:42)

They and other influencers will invoke Erica as the reason that it's not appropriate to ask questions. It's just not appropriate while Erica is still mourning for you guys to ask any questions. And I'm just going to come back at you with some common sense. What sort of widow wouldn't want people to investigate the assassination of their husband? Every day that goes on it feels to me like Turning Point is engaged in a cover up. So criticisms pertaining to anything at Turning Point USA that are being directed at Erica are fair. Obviously they are fair. You are recognizing that the people around Charlie are not acting in the way that they should be acting, that their, their emotionality is not Meeting the moment of violence that we all witness. Nothing in Charlie's life is real. It's just something that keeps me up at night. Just nothing in his life was real. And it just so happened that Charlie Kirk kept notebooks and diaries. He was so diligent that he wrote down his succession plan featuring who he wanted to take over for the organization in the event of his untimely death. Like, you know, in the third notebook, he was like, oh, and if I accidentally get shot on campus, here's what you should do. Call Erica. And then after you call Erica, come find this notebook. Oh, but wait, Charlie, wasn't he, like, a boy genius? He's a pretty bright kid. Wouldn't he have maybe formalized that succession plan outside of, like, a diary? But no, he wanted to put it in these notebooks. And then the plan was to guilt us, I think, to try to haunt us with the ghost of Charlie's notebooks that we're never going to be allowed to read. Yeah, I'm putting the fire here right at the feet of Turning Point, because I am disgusted. I am genuinely disgusted. I am looking around and wondering whether Charlie's entire life was the Truman Show. But I'm starting to think that the assassination of Charlie Kirk was something akin to a regicide. Right. The assassination of a king to install a new ruler who the king would have never approved of. Right.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (6:43)

So she's suggesting that these diaries, journals that he kept are fake, I guess that his wife faked him up. Says, see, he wrote it down here. He wanted me to be in charge if he. If something happened to him.

Jack Armstrong (6:56)

Exactly. It's all a little too pad, isn't it?

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (7:00)

A little hinting that she was involved in having him killed because she wanted.

Jack Armstrong (7:05)

To say, wait a minute. Are you hinting that she was involved in having him killed? You say that's despicable. How dare you question me. Yeah, it's crazy. As Rich Lowry writes, when Alex Jones was at his height and he hasn't gone away, it felt as though he was in it for the entertainment. He was like the WWE announcer who knows the wrestling is fake and knows that we know the wrestling is fake, but imbues his play by play with a sense of great import all the time. I would agree he was despicable, but that was the vibe. Owens is different, to be sure. She's entertaining, too, and he gives some examples. But Owens is more alluring and sinister than Alex Jones. She wants followers not just to sell them the equivalent of supplements, but to gain influence and turn Mega in a direction hostile to Israel, Jews and Judaism. Now, it is true that Owens is ignorant of basic things and makes embarrassing elementary factual mistakes all the time. Yet she's very glib. And her credibility as a talker is bolstered by the near sociopathic self confidence of someone who believes her saying something must make it true. And then her riff about the moon landings being faked is characteristic. She kind of knows something about the Van Allen Radiation Belt, which is more than most people can say, but overstates its potential as an obstacle. And she misunderstands how temperature works in space, among other things. Or her contention that dinosaurs are fake and gay. This apparently stems from her wholly erroneous belief that only paleontologists have ever found dinosaur bones, so there must be conspiracy among them to fabricate fossils to undermine faith in God. Clearly true. And the Jews have a special place in their conspiracies. Harvard is a Mossad base, which Rich writes, highly convenient. One assumes if Israel wanted to carry out an operation against Tufts or Bowdoin. Israel was involved in the September 11 attacks. The Holocaust is exaggerated or fake. Elie Faisal is a liar. The Jews carried out the Bolshevik Revolution in order to exterminate Christians. The Jews killed JFK and for some reason also Michael Jackson. Stalin was a secret Jew and so was Ataturk. Jeffrey Epstein, of course, was doing Israel's bidding. She hasn't accused the Jews of poisoning the wells, but give it time.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (9:15)

And she's portraying. I'm reading her Twitter posts from today. She's portraying it as like, she and Charlie were really close. She and Charlie Kirk. Heartbreaking. They really killed my friend. But justice will be served. And. And that she's being attacked for trying to get the truth out about who killed her friend.

Jack Armstrong (9:35)

Right.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (9:36)

Today on the show we go Max. We find irrefutable proof that Turning Point knows more than they're telling us. Charlie was right. He knew I would be the one to defend him after death. Join us live. Blah, blah, blah. She's got 7.4 million followers on Twitter. I don't know how much money that makes you.

Jack Armstrong (9:55)

Quite a bit, though. Yeah. I got a bunch of examples of. There were actually two shots. The rifle shot was used only to cover up another shot from an unknown assassin at close range. That would be difficult to coordinate. Robinson, the actual shooter's role was to drive around campus assisting in costume changes. Let's see. Shared that Robinson is bewildered by the idea that he carved messages and bullet casings. She also doubts the authenticity of his text messages with his trans boyfriend. She believes the texts aren't credible because there's no way Robinson would use a fancy word like vehicle instead of car. Rich writes, not only is vehicle not a particularly uncommon word, Owens messes up what she considers to be evidence that cinches the point. In sleuth mode, she says that police body cam footage of Robinson after the car accident shows him using the word car instead of vehicle. But in the course of that very tape, he also says vehicle and pretty.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (10:53)

Slim, no matter what.

Jack Armstrong (10:54)

Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. And this goes on for a long time about the Jews. Especially about the Jews. There's a couple of pages of this, but that's enough of that. So the broader point that I find really interesting and compelling is how these conspiracy theories work and how do they get people. And I remember when QAnon was big, I read an absolutely fantastic description of how that works. What are the various triggers that the. The perpetrator of these hoaxes use? And I wish I could find it because it's very straightforward and easy to understand. I gotta.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (11:33)

I gotta admit, if my conscience would allow me, it'd be pretty fun to do the Candace thing where you just make stuff up and kind of ride this wave of nonsense and keep people pulling up, pulling people along and come up with new wacky ideas. It'd be pretty fun.

Jack Armstrong (11:51)

Oh, yeah, It's a great mental exercise. You get to know the four or five tools of your craft, and then you have to react quickly and make new stuff up. It's. It's almost like a creative writing exercise in a way. But anyway, I came across this by Claire Lehman, and we'll take a break and come back with it. The New Medievals. The bones of conspiracy theories haven't changed through the centuries, though the details are different. How conspiracy theories are right out of the Middle Ages. Thought this was intriguing. Hope you enjoy it.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (12:23)

And then there's also the other end of it, is that certain people that really, really, really want these. I don't want them, but some people do. It makes them feel better. That's its own interesting thing. Anyway, lots on the way. Stay here.

Jack Armstrong (12:36)

Armstrong and Getty.

iHeart Radio Promo Announcer (12:40)

Shh.

Ad Voice (12:41)

You won't believe what my new friend just told me about dinosaurs. Is your child having conversations you never imagined? Are they learning without realizing it? It's not a tablet. It's not a toy. It's Meco Mini plus, the AI powered companion that turns curiosity into endless learning. Hear the future of playtime. Meet the extraordinary Meco Mini Plus. Only at Costco this holiday season.

Commercial Announcer (13:10)

Give the gift. Everyone will gather around a Vizio Smart TV now available at Walmart. From a super sized 100 inch T to QLED TVs of all sizes, Vizio delivers breathtaking color and crystal clear picture quality that takes entertainment to the next level. Plus with Watch Free plus built in they can enjoy free live and on demand TV right out of the box. Have a music lover on your list. They can stream their favorite music on the iHeartRadio app ready to go on every Vizio TV. The perfect gift is waiting. Head to Walmart.com and discover Vizio TVs today.

iHeart Radio Promo Announcer (13:40)

Run a business and not thinking about Radio? Think again. Because more people are listening to the radio and iHeart today than they were 20 years ago. And only iHeart broadcast radio connects with more Americans than TV, digital, social, any other media, even twice as many teens than TikTok. And that reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for your business. Radio's here now more than ever and iheart's leading the way. Think radio can help your business. Think iheart streaming, podcasting and radio. Where the reach is real. Let us show you@iheartadvertising.com that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844-Iheart one more time. Just call 844-844-iheart and get radio working for you.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (14:40)

So they're voting on the Epstein files. Dan I only bring that up because that's, you know, be a popular conspiracy for a very long time and obviously has a lot of conspiracy conspiratorial things around it with him being involved with the Jews and that's how the Jews blackmailed people, was through Epstein, etc.

Jack Armstrong (14:59)

Yeah, that's one of the many versions of it. So we're talking about conspiracy theories and how they work and what's at the the root of them. And I remembered a piece I brought to you a while about a month ago about Gnosticism. How a lot of the people pushing this stuff are like the first century Gnostics, a Christian heresy that holds that the material world is evil. That a special knowledge or gnosis with a G lifts us out of its corruptions into redemption. Salvation under its theory requires neither faith nor action, only the recognition that you're being lied to and that your soul belongs elsewhere. Gnosticism, like orthodox religions, asks why evil exists. But instead of traditional answers rooted in personal responsibility, it posits that malevolent forces control the world. Knowledge of these forces becomes the work itself. Discover them and you are redeemed. Which is interesting. But then this from Claire Lehman piece called the New Medievals. And he goes into a variety of people, including Candace Owens, who has been implicating everyone in the murder, from the Israeli government to Turning Point USA itself to Erica Kirk. Uh, and last week her speculation reached its apogee when she suggested that Donald Trump himself was involved. Um, which, which is, well, what the hell, go for a touchdown if you're throwing the ball. Um, but then she writes, Claire writes Owens, while theorizing isn't an anomaly. It's part of something older and darker. There's a distinctly medieval quality to much of the conspiratorial right a world animated by unseen cabals, moral corruption and divine punishment disguised as politics. Then she talks about how in journalism, if it bleeds, it leads. And any story that features a villain or a group of villains doing something dastardly to innocent victims is much more likely to be read and shared than an article that, say, debunks such narratives with statistics. She explains, our mammalian brains are wired to perceive and anthropomorphized threats. When our ancestors saw thunderbolts crashing down from the sky, they didn't think it was caused by electricity in the air and complex weather systems, but by the wrath of vengeful gods.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (17:14)

That's what I believe.

Jack Armstrong (17:15)

That looks like humans. Yeah, Jack still believes that we have to talk him down after every weather forecast. But so media entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, whether it's a Candace Owens or a big publisher or executive, knows that readers want to be frightened by stories of plotters, vandals, criminals and killers in literature and film. Disproportionate attention compared with the works of other sorts. For example, thrillers make up over 12% of adult fiction sales in U. S. True pride. Crime podcasts account for nearly a quarter of the top ranked shows. It's very, very hot. Yet conspiracy theories, those tales of shadowy cabals wreaking havoc in the world, seem to be the most seductive at all. I'm sorry, the most seductive of all. They combine the adrenaline of a thriller with the morality of a fable. These moral horror stories, as literary professor Jonathan gottschall argues in a 2021 book called the story paradox, succeeded not because they persuade people rationally, but because they gratify audiences on an emotional level. He wrote, quote, conspiracy stories promise heroes and villains, secret clues and moral urgency, and each one invites the listener to join a righteous crusade. That's a really good example. Heroes and villains, secret clues and moral urgency, and you get to join a righteous crusade.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (18:40)

I get this and clearly it's true. I just, it's interesting to me that some people like me just aren't susceptible to it if it doesn't make sense. Like I don't get that. And then there's no proof that it's that this is true. And then I just let it go.

Jack Armstrong (18:56)

You know, one more note before the break and then I will come back with more of this because it's super thought provoking. But he mentions, she mentions a couple of scientific experiments, psychological experiments through the years where people who feel powerless, confused, overwhelmed, powerless begin to see patterns that are not there because they really want to bring order to the disorder that they perceive. Quote Participants who lack control were more likely to perceive a variety of illusory patterns, including seeing images and noise, forming illusory correlations in stock market information, perceiving conspiracies and developing superstitions, the authors wrote. Another 2020 study found that the lack of sense of lack of agency also predicted belief in Jewish conspiracies specifically.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (19:49)

Well, maybe that's why conspiracies don't work on me, then. I don't generally feel powerless or lacking agency, so they don't grab me in the same way.

Jack Armstrong (19:59)

So a little more of how this applies to the modern world and some examples from history coming up in a moment or two. Please do stay tuned. If you can't stay tuned, just grab it later via podcast. You ought to subscribe or follow Armstrong and Getty on Demand. Armstrong and Getty.

iHeart Radio Promo Announcer (20:19)

Shh.

Ad Voice (20:20)

You won't believe what my new friend just told me about dinosaurs. Is your child having conversations you never imagined? Are they learning without realizing it? It's not a tablet. It's not a toy. It's Meco Mini plus, the AI powered companion that turns cur curiosity into endless learning. Hear the future of playtime. Meet the extraordinary Meco Mini Plus Only.

Commercial Announcer (20:46)

At Costco this holiday season. Give the gift. Everyone will gather around a Vizio Smart TV now available at Walmart. From a super sized 100 inch TV to QLED TVs of all sizes, Vizio delivers breathtaking color and crystal clear picture quality that takes entertainment to the next level. Plus with Watch Free plus built in, they can enjoy free live and on demand TV right out of the box. Have a music lover on your list. They can stream their favorite music on the iHeartRadio app ready to go on every Vizio TV. The perfect gift is waiting. Head to Walmart.com and discover Vizio TVs today.

iHeart Radio Promo Announcer (21:19)

Run a business. And not thinking about radio. Think again. Cause more people are listening to the radio on iHeart today than they were 20 years ago. And only iHeart broadcast radio connects with more Americans than TV, digital, social, any other media, even twice as many teens than TikTok. And that reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for your business. Radio's here now more than ever. And iheart's leading the way. Think radio can help your business. Think iheart streaming, podcasting, and radio where the reach is real. Let us show you@iheartadvertising.com that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844. Iheart one more time. Just call 844-844-Iheart and get radio working for you.

Michael (Guest or contributor) (22:19)

They and other influencers will invoke Erica as the reason that it's not appropriate to ask questions. It's just not appropriate while Erica is still mourning for you guys to ask any questions. And I'm just gonna come back at you with some comments. Common sense. What sort of widow wouldn't want people to investigate the assassination of their husband?

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (22:37)

So that's Candace Owens. I saw a different podcaster that is not as popular as her, but pretty popular. He had a video of Charlie Kirk and his wife on some sort of podcast interview show. And anyway, they were asked how they met, and Erica Kirk said, how we met, and she paused for a little bit. And then the podcast host ghost stops it. Who has to pause to remember how they met their spouse. Something is weird here. That is not a normal marriage. That sort of thing.

Jack Armstrong (23:09)

Great example. Yeah, great example. So we're in the midst of discussing a couple of different pieces of thinking on conspiracy theorists. Michael, why do you look so troubled? No, everything's great, actually. I'm just. Yeah, we're good.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (23:21)

Indigestion. Are you eating enough California prunes?

Jack Armstrong (23:26)

Guilt. I'll grab some guilt. Yeah, there you go. All right. So anyway, we're talking about conspiracy theories and the shapes they take and the kind of ancient origins of them. If you're just joining in, joining them, maybe grab it via podcast later. I'm strong. Giddy on demand. But the conspiracist worldview transforms chaos into drama and tragedy into design. It restores meaning in a confusing world by insisting that every disaster, every death, every downturn must have a reason. The most enduring conspiracy theories, like those surrounding JFK's assassination. This is so interesting. Often follow events that feel too momentous to have been set in motion by something as mundane as one mentally unwell individual. Now, I get that that's hard.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (24:10)

That's hard to deal with.

Jack Armstrong (24:12)

Jamie Palmer, who's an editor at Quillet, one of the senior editors, had he. He was a conspiracy thinker for years. He's not anymore. He noted that the idea of a communist misfit killing an American president was an embarrassment to the new left, which he was part of. Unable to accept that a remark unremarkable loner could alter the course of history, many instead turn to elaborate alternate explanations. And I like this so much, I clipped it. Psychologists call this the proportionality bias, the belief that great events require great causes. A solitary gunman feels arbitrary and small. A hidden cabal, on the other hand, restores symmetry, purpose, and a sense of moral order. Yeah, the proportionality bias. Now this is where it really gets interesting. Long before our modern variants, conspiracy theories were spread via word of mouth. In the Middle Ages, Jews were targeted in particular because they lived among Christians. But apart from them, they were marked by different laws, different rituals and occupations were reviewed as the people who had known Christ but had rejected him. When a boy was kidnapped and murdered in 12th century England, the accusation that Jews used the blood of children in their Passover rituals began to spread across Christendom. The original blood libel. And during the black deaths, Jews were again blamed for deliberately spreading the plague through the poisoning of wells, which led directly to pogroms, meaning the slaughter of Jews across Germany, France and Switzerland. During the Reformation, Martin Luther produced texts of virulent anti Semitism, urging Christians to eject them forever from their lands and raze and destroy their houses. These stories of villainy served the function. They united Christians against a common enemy, blamed catastrophes like the pandemics on humans rather than complex systems that they didn't understand, and legitimized violence as well as the confiscation of Jewish property. The specifics change. Demons become globalists, witches become elites, and covens become cabals. But the psychology remains the same. Conspiracy theories offer what old religions once mor moral structure, belonging, and the assurance that evil is real, identifiable and conquerable. The platforms have changed, but the pattern has not.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (26:37)

I was listening to a podcast the other day, a topic I've talked about a lot before. The witch trials of that period, at the time the printing press became popular, it really drove the witch trials in that like the Internet now you had printed material out there that anybody could say anything they wanted. And lots of people believed everything they read. And the whole witch thing spread. 40,000 witches, they believe, were killed over many, many decades during that period of time.

Jack Armstrong (27:05)

But she's a witch.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (27:06)

That's a full on conspiracy theory. Blaming is a. Is a discomfort with the number of unwed women there were, is a lot of what it was driving it culturally.

Jack Armstrong (27:16)

Wow. So the first real use of the printing press was printing crap about witches.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (27:21)

Yeah.

Jack Armstrong (27:22)

If that don't tell you everything you need to know about humanity, I don't know what. Well, so here's the interesting question. I think if you're a thinking man or woman. Woman. What's the difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory? I mean, because there are plenty of conspiracies. More than one person working toward a despicable end. Well, you ain't got an illegal end.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (27:46)

You got to give JFK people, certainly in the early part, a pass. So it turns out the guy lived in Russia, went to Cuba recently.

Jack Armstrong (27:55)

I mean, come on. Had been ID'd by the CIA in.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (27:59)

The midst of the Cold War. Yeah, it's almost a stretch that he wasn't involved with the Soviet Union somehow.

Jack Armstrong (28:05)

Yeah, right. Yeah, I would agree. I would agree there was plenty of grist for that mill, but.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (28:09)

And then he gets murdered the next, you know, like two days later. So you can't ever answer any questions.

Jack Armstrong (28:13)

I mean, come on. Yeah, there was. Who was it? Was it Neil Ferguson did a takedown of Daryl Cooper? Was that his name? The fake historian that Tucker said was the most important historian in America or something like that. A point by point takedown of Darryl's reasoning about why the Jews did this and that, why Hitler actually wanted blah, blah, blah, and just utterly dismantled it. But in you had to read the dismantling because the case Darrell Cooper made sounds so authoritative. Because he cites specific sentences from specific documents or letters from one diplomat to a president. President or something like that. And you need the explanation of why. Oh, that was like one sentence from one advisor who dissented from the mainstream. And two sentences later he pointed out why that probably wasn't true, but he thought the president ought to be aware of it, that sort of thing. It's, you know, back to the whole incredibly frustrating notion that if you're explaining, you're losing thing. It's very easy to make authoritative sounding claims that sound very, very reasonable. And you have to spend the time to dig into them, to debunk them and who has the time.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (29:35)

Right.

Jack Armstrong (29:36)

Especially you know, given the deliciousness as Claire Lehman responds or described about conspiracy theories. And my final thought, this is one of my favorite quotes from Aldous Huxley. I've actually got it pinned to the studio wall. The surest way to work up a crusade in of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience. To be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior righteous indignation. This is the height of psychological luxury. The most delicious of moral treats.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (30:11)

That fits in with the witch trial thing a lot. Really allowed people and anti Semitism and. Yeah. And a lot of Islamic fundamentalism.

Jack Armstrong (30:20)

Right. Right.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (30:21)

Before we take a break. Hey Katie, have you seen the. The video of the guy who rushes on Ariana Grande?

Jack Armstrong (30:27)

I have.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (30:28)

Wow. Have you seen that, Joe?

Jack Armstrong (30:30)

Yeah, I did. I didn't think much of it.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (30:32)

I just saw an angle of it that was different. Well, he didn't do anything. He just ran up and got his picture taken.

Jack Armstrong (30:37)

But holy crap, he's notorious for doing that at red carpet events.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (30:42)

What's the point of claiming to have security at any event ever if that can happen? Weapon. He ran. God, it looks like 20 yards at least. He just kind of pushes past the so called security guard who was probably making minimum wage and had no weapon. If you want to get to people other than the President. And that's even a question.

Jack Armstrong (31:04)

Well, I was gonna say if. If the murder of Charlie Kirk and the near murder of Donald J. Trump haven't convinced you that most security is security theater. I don't know what you.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (31:13)

Yeah.

Jack Armstrong (31:14)

So.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (31:14)

So what level of concert. Sure. Are you going to have for a movie star who's walking on the red carpet for some mov here? Apparently none. A guy. If he'd have wanted to kill her, he could have absolutely 100 killed her before anybody could have stopped her.

Jack Armstrong (31:25)

It wasn't even her security that got him off of her. It was her co star that pulled.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (31:31)

Her away around her that the security perimeter was wide. The guy blows past that perimeter with no effort whatsoever.

Jack Armstrong (31:37)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (31:38)

Then gets all the way to. To her and has his arm around the 4 foot 10, 80 pound woman to get his picture taken. Reagan.

Jack Armstrong (31:45)

Right. And you know the. Maybe the most troubling part of all that is why would we need so much security?

Saudi Official or Interviewee (31:51)

Right.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (31:52)

Yeah.

Jack Armstrong (31:53)

Why are so many people intent on hurting other people?

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (31:56)

Right. As it wasn't that many years ago that you could walk up to the White House and knock on the door and walk in if you wanted to.

Jack Armstrong (32:03)

We're debating whether teachers should have guns and whether the fences at the elementary school ought to be electrified and. Yeah, and a hundred other things.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (32:10)

Well, it's a decay of our culture and society, which I was talking about last week, which I believe blame on Elvis and the Beatles. I think it all fits together. The long hair, what brought it. We will finish strong next Armstrong and Getty.

Jack Armstrong (32:28)

Shh.

Ad Voice (32:29)

You won't believe what my new friend just told me about dinosaurs. Is your child having conversations you never imagined? Are they learning without realizing it? It's not a tablet. It's not a toy. It's Meco Mini plus, the AI powered companion that turn curiosity into endless learning. Hear the future of playtime. Meet the extraordinary Meco Mini plus, only at Costco.

Commercial Announcer (32:57)

This holiday season, give the gift of incredible sound with Vizio's full soundbar lineup available at Walmart. Transform any living room into a home theater with rich, immersive audio that brings every movie, show and song to life. Whether you're gifting a loved one or upgrading your own setup, Vizio soundbars deliver powerful, crystal clear sound that turns ordinary watching into extraordinary experiences. Stream your favorite holiday Playlist with the iHeartRadio app and discover how good your music can truly sound. Head to Walmart.com and find your perfect Vizio soundbar today.

iHeart Radio Promo Announcer (33:28)

Run a business and not thinking about radio. Think again. Cause more people are listening to the radio on iHeart today than they were 20 years ago. And only iHeart broadcast radio connects with more Americans than TV, digital, social, any other media media, even twice as many teens than TikTok. And that reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for your business. Radio's here now more than ever. And iheart's leading the way. Think radio can help your business. Think iheart streaming, podcasting and radio video. Where the reach is real. Let us show you@iheartadvertising.com that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844. Iheart one more time. Just call 844-844-Iheart and get radio working for you.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (34:27)

So Trump's in the Oval Office with mbs, the guy who runs Saudi Arabia. Super wily dude. Very impressive. He's got kind of the practiced, just sitting there, pleasant, pleasant expression on his face while Trump answers all kinds of questions about all kinds of different things.

Jack Armstrong (34:46)

Yeah, yeah. Every time I have Witnessed him doing interviews with American journalists, including a really good long sit down with Brett Baer. I've thought, oh, this guy has a plus plus game. Yeah, he is one smart, calculating, ruthless son of a gun. It's also a bit of a visionary in Saudi Arabia in a good way and in a lunatic way. That weird what was a 50 mile long, mile wide city in the desert thing is materialized about as well as you'd think it would. Just insanely over budget, behind schedule and people are starting to think what are we doing?

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (35:28)

Well, and he's done some relaxing of their strict laws, but he still has women in prison who tried to drive.

Jack Armstrong (35:34)

So yeah, he's liberalized X amount. And if you say it should be X +1, you go to prison. So which of these mixed record, which.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (35:45)

Of these clips are we thinking of playing before we get out of here? I'm confused. You have an idea, Mike?

Jack Armstrong (35:50)

Okay, yeah, I'll fire this one.

iHeart Radio Promo Announcer (35:53)

Mr. President.

Jack Armstrong (35:54)

Mr. President.

iHeart Radio Promo Announcer (35:54)

Is it appropriate, Mr. President, for your family to be doing business in Saudi Arabia Arabia while you're President? Is that a conflict of interest? And your loyal highness, the US Intelligence concluded that you orchestrated the brutal murder of a journalist. 911 families are furious that you are here in the Oval Office. Why should Americans trust.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (36:11)

Who are you with?

iHeart Radio Promo Announcer (36:12)

And the same to you, Mr. President.

Joe Getty (36:13)

Now who are you with?

iHeart Radio Promo Announcer (36:14)

I'm with ABC News, sir.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (36:15)

You're with who?

iHeart Radio Promo Announcer (36:15)

ABC News, sir.

Joe Getty (36:16)

Fake news. ABC fake news. One of the worst, one of the worst in the business. But I'll answer your question. I have nothing to do with the family business. I have left. And when I've devoted 100% of my energy, what my family does is fine. They do business all over. They've done very little with Saudi Arabia, actually. I'm sure they could do a lot. And anything they've done has been very good. That's what we've done. We've built a tremendous business for a long time. I've been very successful. I decided to leave that success be behind and make America very successful. And I've made America more successful by far than it ever was. And that it ever could have been. No matter who was President, there would be Nobody bringing in $21 trillion. That I can tell you right now. As far as this gentleman is concerned, he's done a phenomenal job. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happen. But he knew nothing about it, and we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like that.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (37:17)

Yes, yes. Don't embarrass our guests by asking a question like that. I agree. By the way, look into Khashoggi. He's the. How did he become such a sympathetic figure for everybody? I mean, whatever.

Jack Armstrong (37:29)

Wow, Jack. Soft on the murder of dissidents. That's nice. That's nice. Disgusting.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (37:36)

But as you pointed out earlier, we do. Trump sat down with freaking Putin. Right?

Jack Armstrong (37:43)

And. And Xi Jinping and fathead from North Korea. They're monstrous, actually. Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (37:48)

Why do we ment anybody other than President Xi? I mean, he's got a country of over a billion people. They have slaves, for crying out loud.

Jack Armstrong (37:56)

Yeah, they're conducting an actual genocide against the Uyghur people. All right, a genocide, but there's business that has to be done with China. The. And listen, I'm not pro the murder and bone sawing of dissidents of any regime, okay? But this people act as if Khashoggi had the secrets of the universe, including happiness and the cure for cancer, and was an entirely innocent character. And therefore, he is the only issue that matters between our two countries for now, until the end of time.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (38:33)

If I remember when I looked into this last time, maybe I'm wrong, but as I remember it, he said he was an Islamist. He was just a different kind of Islamist than what MBS is into. Right?

Jack Armstrong (38:44)

And he wrote for the Washington Post, occasional columns. And they loved him because they could embrace him as a foreign guy and a Muslim and show how enlightened they were that they loved him. He might have been an utterly charming guy. I didn't know him. But again, as despicable as his murder might have been, the idea that that death, the death of that one man should be the primary issue in the relations between our two countries just is childlike. It ignores the entire history of mankind.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (39:10)

Oh, my God. I do want to hear. We just have a little time. How did Khashoggi respond to the being asked about the bone sawing?

Saudi Official or Interviewee (39:19)

You're allowed me to answer. You know, I feel painful about, you know, the families of 911 in America, but, you know, we have to focus on reality. Reality based in CIA documents and based on a lot of documents that he used Saudi people in that event for one main purpose is to destroy this relation, to destroy the American, Saudi religion. That's the purpose of 911. So whoever buying that, that means they are helping Osama bin Laden purpose of destroying this relation. He know that strong relation between America and Saudi Arabia. It's bad for extremism, it's bad for terrorism and we have to approve him.

Jack Armstrong (40:01)

Wrong.

Saudi Official or Interviewee (40:01)

And to build our relation, continue developing our relations critical in the safety of the world. It's critical against extremism and terrorism. About the journalists, it's really painful to hear, you know, anyone that been losing his life for, you know, no real purpose or not in a legal way. And it's been painful for us in Saudi Arabia. We've did all the right steps of investigation, etc. In Saudi Arabia yet. And we've improved our system to be sure.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (40:32)

Right?

Saudi Official or Interviewee (40:33)

Nothing happened like there you go.

Jack Armstrong (40:36)

Or it's all a lie either way.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (40:41)

And now final thoughts with Armstrong and Giddy engage. Here's your host for final thoughts, Joe Getty.

Jack Armstrong (40:49)

Let's get right to some final thoughts. Michelangelo, hit it. Yeah. That Kumi the bear. It's going to be a hot seller on ebay. Everybody, everybody loves forbidden toys.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (40:58)

All right.

Jack Armstrong (40:59)

Katie Green, our esteemed newswoman has a final thought. Katie, Candace Owens is nuts or rage baiting all of us. Yeah, yeah. Rage baiting is a thing too. Jack, a final thought you'd like to share.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (41:11)

Yeah. I heard one of my favorite quotes from Winston Churchill earlier today. When you get into states, there are no such things as friends. You only have interests. You don't have friends. You have interests between countries.

Jack Armstrong (41:20)

My interest is in telling you about the hot new T shirt at the Armstrong and Getty Superstar or ruin the entire country. Newsome 2028. Wear it proudly.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (41:30)

Wow. Armstrong and Getty wrapping up another grueling four hour workday.

Jack Armstrong (41:33)

Order now so as to get it in time for Christmas. So many people. Thanks a little time. Go to armstrongandgetti.com we will see you.

Co-host (possibly Joe Getty or a guest commentator) (41:40)

Tomorrow with all the news of the day. God bless America.

Jack Armstrong (41:45)

It's the Armstrong and Getty Show. Christmas shopping.

Commercial Announcer (41:50)

Sometimes it's so tough it can feel.

Ad Voice (41:54)

Like you're just buying a bunch of random stuff.

Commercial Announcer (41:58)

Get focused and spend your money right. We've got the perfect gift for that.

Ad Voice (42:06)

Special person in your life.

Jack Armstrong (42:08)

The Armstrong and Getty superstore shop. Now armstrongandgetty.com. Armstrong and Getty. Shh.

Ad Voice (42:27)

You won't believe what my new friend just told me about dinosaurs. Is your child having conversations you never imagined? Are they learning without realizing it? It's not a tablet. It's not a toy. It's Meco mini Plus the AI powered companion that turns curiosity into endless learning. Hear the future of playtime. Meet the extraordinary Miko Mini plus only.

Commercial Announcer (42:53)

At Costco this holiday season. Give the gift of incredible sound with Vizio's full Soundbar lineup available at Walmart. Transform any living room into a home theater with rich, immersive audio that brings every movie, show and song to life. Whether you're gifting a loved one or upgrading your own setup, Vizio soundbars deliver powerful, crystal clear sound that turns ordinary watching into extraordinary experiences. Stream your favorite holiday Playlist with the iHeartRadio app and discover how good your music can truly sound. Head to Walmart.com and find your perfect Vizio sound bar today.

Jack Armstrong (43:25)

Dude, this new bacon, egg and chicken biscuit from AM pm.

iHeart Radio Promo Announcer (43:28)

Total winner.

Jack Armstrong (43:29)

Winner, chicken breakfast. Chicken breakfast? Come on. I think you mean chicken dinner, bro. Nah, brother. Crispy bacon, fluffy eggs, juicy chicken and a buttery biscuit. That's the perfect breakfast. Alright, let me. Let me try it.

iHeart Radio Promo Announcer (43:41)

Okay.

Jack Armstrong (43:42)

Yeah, totally. Winner, winner, chicken breakfast. I'm going to have to keep this right here. Make sure every breakfast is a winner with the delicious new bacon, egg and Chicken biscuit from AM pm AM pm Too much good stuff.

iHeart Radio Promo Announcer (43:55)

This is an I Heart podcast.