Building Future Leaders Through Scouting. Paul Helman Talks to A&G

Summary

Podcast Summary: Building Future Leaders Through Scouting – Paul Hellman Talks to A&G

Podcast: Armstrong & Getty On Demand
Host: iHeartPodcasts
Date: December 15, 2025
Guest: Paul Hellman, long-time Scouting America volunteer leader

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Episode Overview

This episode of Armstrong & Getty centers on the transformative role Scouting plays in developing young leaders in America. The hosts, Armstrong and Getty, are joined by Paul Hellman—an influential figure with over 50 years of volunteer experience in Scouting—for a detailed conversation about how Scouting teaches values, leadership, and community, and why supporting access to these programs is so essential.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Impact and Purpose of Scouting

• Mission of Scouting:
  Paul Hellman succinctly defines Scouting’s aim:
  • “Create leaders for tomorrow. Who's going to be our elected officials in 20 years from now. That's what we're creating.” — Paul Hellman [03:39]
• Armstrong shares personal observations, noting how Scouting isn't just about outdoors skills:
  • It’s a system that fosters growth in leadership, values, teamwork, and responsibility, with older youths mentoring younger members.
  • “These kids don't act like other kids I've seen. They seem like they're in their 20s. A lot of these 15-year-olds.” — Armstrong [04:13]

How Scouting Teaches Leadership

• Laboratory of Learning:
  Hellman explains that Scouting provides an experiential environment where kids make real decisions, lead their peers, and learn practical problem-solving.
  • “It's a boy-led process. Scout-led process. Excuse me, boy or girl led.” — Paul Hellman [04:36]
  • Patrol leaders, as young as 12, plan activities, coordinate logistics, and are responsible for the well-being of their group.
• Servant Leadership Model:
  • “The leadership model that we try to use is called servant leadership... That's what we portray and convey over to our adults, who then translate that to the youth.” — Paul Hellman [06:14]
  • Both adults (via Wood Badge training) and youth (via National Youth Leadership Training, NYLT) receive structured instruction in leadership a la corporate training.

Tangible Effects on Character

• Scouts routinely exhibit maturity, courtesy, and respect rarely seen in modern teens:
  • “You want to talk about teenagers who look you in the eye and give you a firm handshake and refer to you as Mr.? ... it is around Scouting.” — Armstrong [06:49]
  • “Scout oath and Scout law teaches you to have respect for all that you’re around and the environment your fellow Scouts and everyone in the community.” — Paul Hellman [07:06]

Responsibility & Accountability for Youth

• Armstrong recounts his own son's newfound sense of duty after becoming a patrol leader:
  • “He’s taking it so seriously. And I'm so, I'm so proud of him and just amazed... he feels the responsibility of showing up to the extra meeting and being there and doing the things he's supposed to do.” — Armstrong [07:15]
• Hellman compares the skills Scouting imparts to those learned in an MBA program:
  • “What we teach at Boy Scouts of America is exactly what you learn when you go get an MBA.” — Paul Hellman [07:36]

High Expectations and Personal Growth

• Getty and Armstrong highlight how kids rise to meet expectations when given responsibility:
  • “People rise to your expectations, especially kids.” — Getty [08:55]
  • “Kids rise to the occasion.” — Armstrong [08:16]
• Hellman mentions that grit and perseverance are essential outcomes of Scouting's rigorous outdoor activities, like 50-mile hikes and high adventure camps:
  • “You just learn how to just make it happen and lead your scouts so that you show up and can set up your camp.” — Paul Hellman [09:03]

The Cost and Importance of Accessibility

• Scouting typically costs a few hundred dollars annually, including uniforms, gear, and program fees:
  • “It's a couple hundred dollars a year to be involved in Scouting.” — Paul Hellman [10:13]
  • Armstrong and Getty express deep concern that cost is a barrier for many families and urge listeners to donate to help others access the program.
• The impact of the pandemic on Scouting is noted—the inability to meet led to many units folding, increasing the importance of support and rebuilding efforts:
  • “Covid caused us the inability to meet as a group and so some of our units to stop meeting and no longer are in existence...” — Paul Hellman [11:05]

Patriotism and Tradition

• Getty asks about Scouting’s connection to patriotism:
  • Hellman emphasizes flag ceremonies and the respectful retirement of the American flag as core Scouting traditions:
    • “We have the American flag on our uniform. We recite the Pledge of Allegiance before every meeting. ... We’re one of the few organizations … allowed to retire American flags. We have a very respectful ceremony.” — Paul Hellman [11:41]
  • Armstrong highlights these ceremonies as an inspiring weekly experience:
    • “It's so cool. ... having seen these kids do it and take it so seriously and quietly and everything like that, it's just awesome.” — Armstrong [12:09]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Leadership Development:
  “Create leaders for tomorrow.” — Paul Hellman [03:39]

• On Character in Scouts:
  “These kids don't act like other kids I've seen. They seem like they're in their 20s.” — Armstrong [04:13]

• On Servant Leadership:
  “You never learn so much as when you're teaching and you're never as much of a servant as when you're leading because you realize ... oh, this isn't about me. This is about everybody but me.” — Getty [05:54]

• On Personal Responsibility:
  “I'm so proud of him and just amazed by that he feels the responsibility of showing up...” — Armstrong [07:15]

• On Overcoming Obstacles:
  “You just learn how to just make it happen and lead your scouts so that you show up and can set up your camp.” — Paul Hellman [09:03]

• On Access and Barriers:
  “It's a couple hundred dollars a year to be involved in Scouting.” — Paul Hellman [10:13]

• On Patriotism:
  “We recite the Pledge of Allegiance before every single meeting. ... We’re one of the few organizations ... allowed to retire American flags.” — Paul Hellman [11:41]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:31] The core mission of Scouting: building leaders for tomorrow
• [04:33] How Scouting fosters leadership and responsibility in practice
• [06:14] Explaining servant leadership and leadership training in Scouting
• [07:15] Real-life impact on a Scout’s character and family insights
• [08:16] The role of expectations in youth development
• [09:38] Outdoor challenges and building resilience
• [10:13] The financial cost of Scouting and barriers to access
• [11:05] COVID-19’s impact on Scouting units; rebuilding efforts
• [11:41] Scouting’s traditions of patriotism and flag ceremonies

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Tone & Style

The conversation is personal, passionate, and earnest, blending warm anecdotes with practical advocacy for supporting Scouting financially. Armstrong and Getty celebrate the impact of Scouting while candidly discussing the challenges it faces.

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Closing Remarks

• Armstrong, Getty, and Paul Hellman collectively urge listeners to consider donating to make Scouting accessible to more children, underlining the lifelong impact of the program on youth, families, and communities.
• The episode ends with gratitude for Paul’s decades of service and a call to action for community involvement through support and donations:
  • “We're going to raise as much money as we can for you this week.” — Armstrong [12:22]

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For more information or to donate, listeners are directed to armstrongandgetty.com.

Transcript

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[Armstrong]

I remember we came up with this quite a few years ago. Joe and I did one. We thought we had the sort of audience that was giving so we could raise money for good causes. And I think it was just sort of a, like this time of year, you know, you're throwing money around on all kinds of different things. How about just, just from my own personal standpoint, how about I throw a little money towards something good this time of year? I think, you know, lots of people do that.

[Getty]

Oh, right. And we wanted to advocate for the things we hold most dear. And it turns out it's coincided quite beautifully with y'. Alls.

[Armstrong]

Yeah, yeah. And a number of organizations through the years where we've raised a lot of money. This year we're going to try to raise a lot of money for the Scouts. And the reason for that is. You've heard me talk about this a lot. My youngest joined the Boy Scouts, I think last March and it's been the best thing that's ever happened to him. And then just being around Scouting, I have become aware of things that I didn't know. I was a, a Boy Scout for a couple of years. Many, many, many, many years ago. Because I'm quite old. But watching Scouts and realizing how much more there is to it than learning about knots and putting up a tent and all that sort of stuff and hiking and all that. They do all that stuff and it's really, really cool. But learning about values and leadership and teamwork and all these different things and seeing it up close, I've been so amazed and finding out that it costs a little bit to get into Scouting and do a lot of things you want to do. And maybe we could raise some money so more people could get involved in Scouting. And we'd like to welcome into the studio today our guest, Paul Hellman. Paul is a noted member of Scouting America with over 50 years of volunteer service to Scouting. Paul, you've been in almost every role in Scouting from a unit leader to a unit commissioner to now you've been a council president at various times. Now you're on the executive committee and board of directors for a council. Paul, welcome into the Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Paul Hellman]

Thank you.

[Armstrong]

What, what, what be the number one thing you would say Scouting's trying to do?

[Paul Hellman]

Create leaders for tomorrow.

[Armstrong]

Create leaders for tomorrow.

[Paul Hellman]

Leaders for tomorrow. Who's, who's going to be our elected officials in 20 years from now. That's what we're creating.

[Armstrong]

It is amazing how many times I hear people running for office who say they were an Eagle Scout or in Scouting or whatever. That does come up a lot. But here's, here's what I found out and noticed that I didn't know before on how the adults just kind of stand back and watch because the kids are in charge. And you got like the 15 year olds who've been around for a while helping direct the, you know, the younger kids and then the younger kids grow into that and everything like that. Just the, the self sustained model that you've got. And then these kids. And I said this on the air after the first Scouting thing I did. These kids don't act like other kids I've seen. They seem like they're in their 20s. A lot of these 15 year olds. How does Scouting do that?

[Paul Hellman]

Excellent observation that you've made there. What we are really creating here in Scouting America is a laboratory of learning. You learn from the process, you learn from being, experiencing the model that we're trying to create, which is let's create a environment with which you need to make decisions and you have to take care of others. And it's a boy led process. Scout led process. Excuse me, boy or girl led. And so you'll have a 12 year old that becomes the patrol leader in a Scout troop. That patrol leader then is responsible for the activities that the youth and his patrol will do on a camp out, for instance, 32 hours or more. What are we going to do? How are we going to prepare our food? So that leader, that 12 year old leader will then help the other Scouts make decisions, also do their rank advancements and learn some very basic things. What's the process about where do we set up our tent? Not only how do you set it up, but where do you set it up? How do you make sure it's in a safe position? Also, someday you should sit through a patrol leader council meeting. That's when the youth get together and they decide their program. What are we going to do for the next two or three months during our meeting?

[Armstrong]

Yeah, my son just had that meeting recently. No, I did not sit in and watch it. But that sounds really, really interesting. And they vote themselves on what they're going to do in the coming year and what they'll need and.

[Paul Hellman]

Yes.

[Armstrong]

And all that sort of stuff. Yeah, Joe.

[Getty]

You know, it strikes me, Paul, that there's an old saying, you never learn so much is when you're teaching and you're never as as much of a servant as when you're leading because you realize, oh, this isn't about me. This is about everybody but me. That's why I'm leading. I mean, my God, you learn so much about human beings in a role like that.

[Paul Hellman]

Absolutely true. The leadership model that we try to use is called servant leadership, something that was created by Robert Greenleaf, what, 25, 30 years ago. And that's the model that we portray and convey over to our adults, who then translate that to the youth. And the youth training also uses the model and what we call National Youth Leadership Training. NYLT is where the youth go and learn the techniques of leadership. The adults do the same thing when they go to Wood Badge. Wood Badge training is really corporate leadership training in a wonderful environment in a Scout camp location.

[Armstrong]

But like I said, my experience has been, you want to talk about teenagers who look you in the eye and give you a firm handshake and refer to you as Mr. And all that sort of stuff that you don't see that much in modern America.

[Getty]

Man.

[Armstrong]

It is a. It is. It is around Scouting. I'll tell you that that's true.

[Paul Hellman]

You think about the values we have in Scouting. Scout oath and Scout law teaches you to have respect for all that you're around and the environment your fellow Scouts and Everyone in the community.

[Armstrong]

My son got elected, whatever the first step is, patrol leader for his little group recently and he's taking it so seriously. And I'm so, I'm so proud of him and just amazed by that he feels the responsibility of showing up to the extra meeting and being there and doing the things he's supposed to do. It's absolutely incredible.

[Paul Hellman]

Yeah, there's one of the things we do in Scouting America and I think we do this extremely well, is providing those environments for 12 year olds to then be responsible for other youth, other human beings making phone calls, doing whatever they need to do. You're going to bring the right, who's going to bring the food. The entire structure in the organization of their outings are going to be basically managed by the patroller who might be 12 years old. See, one of the things I like to tell people is what we teach at Boy Scouts of America is exactly what you learn when you go get an mba. So take your pick. You're going to be in scouts to your 18 years old or you're going to go to someplace and learn these same techniques and you're 24, you're going to learn the same things in scouting that you would getting a higher education.

[Armstrong]

And Joe and I have talked about this a lot over the years. Joe was bringing it up just a couple of weeks ago on how whenever you hear these stories about like inner city schools that were struggling and they turn it around, it's always because some hard ass principal or something like that demanded more out of the kids. And when they demand more out of the kids, the kids rise to the occasion. And that's what I've seen just being around scouts like this. Like my son, I know what my son is like and like a couple of weeks ago he was headed to his first meeting where he's now, you know, in charge of his little group of guys, everything like so we got to be there on time. You know, I have a, I have responsibilities now and just that he never talked like that before.

[Getty]

People rise to your expectations, especially kids over.

[Armstrong]

And it's one of the great lessons.

[Getty]

I think we've forgotten in America, Paul. I'm sure you've seen that a million.

[Paul Hellman]

Times and I have a tenacity. That's the sort of grit. The two things that sometimes we, we talk about is what we teach in scouting. You got a, I don't know, 30, 35, 40 pound pack on your back. We got to get someplace before you can set up camp and you got to get there you got to get there somehow. You just learn how to just make it happen and lead your scouts so that you show up and can set up your camp. One of the greatest adventures that we do in Scouted America are our summertime the 50 mile hikes or going to Philmont or some of the other high adventure camps that we have where you do these treks.

[Armstrong]

As I said, I've seen, I've seen 16 year olds that are so much more impressive than so many 30 year olds I know in terms of just being adults that look like they can take on life. It's absolutely impressive. So here's the deal. Let's. Let's get to where the rubber meets the road because we're trying to raise money this, this week. I would love it if every, because of boys and girls, but every kid out there had the opportunity to be in Scouting. But it costs something to be in Scouting and not everybody can afford it. What's it cost? Just rent, generally. Do you have any idea across America what it costs to get involved in Scouting for a family?

[Paul Hellman]

Well, you have your personal expenses which would be the uniform, $150 total when you get done, the equipment that you need to go camping. There's also the support for the local councils and the administration of the Scouting program in your area, which is generally going to be about another $85 to $100 a year. So I would tell you it's a couple hundred dollars a year to be involved in Scouting.

[Armstrong]

Yeah. Which is enough to keep a lot of people from doing it.

[Paul Hellman]

Oh.

[Getty]

And given the unbelievable effect it can have on their young lives, I mean it's just, it's tragic that any kid would not be involved in Scouting for, for questions of cost.

[Armstrong]

Yeah. So if we can, if we can cover that cost by raising some money. Go to armstrongandgetty.com we got the donate now on there and we'll see how much money we can raise this week. And then a whole bunch of people can get exposed to Scouting. And you know, I guess Covid was really hard on Scouting.

[Paul Hellman]

Yeah. Covid caused us the inability to meet as a group and so some of our units to stop meeting and no longer are in existence because of that. And so we're working hard and this is where the funds that we're going to gain help us. Because now we could get professionals in the field to rebuild those units, go to the sponsoring institutions, say we need to recreate Pac X, Pac Y and then be able to provide Scouting for the congregations.

[Getty]

Hey Paul, we've just got like 30 more seconds. But can you speak quickly to scouting and patriotism? Is that still a fundamental part of what you do?

[Paul Hellman]

Absolutely. Is what we part of. We have the American flag on our uniform. We recite the Pledge of Allegiance before every single meeting. We salute the flag and we're one of the few organizations in the United States that's allowed to retire American flags. We have a very respectful ceremony that we go through when we retire the flags and and burn them and bury them as they need to be.

[Armstrong]

I see that every week. What do you call the thing when they bring out the people and they take the flags down and stuff like that?

[Paul Hellman]

Flag ceremony.

[Armstrong]

Yeah, the flagship. I see that every week. And it's so cool. And having, you know, seen these kids do it and take it so seriously and quietly and everything like that, it's just awesome.

[Paul Hellman]

They stand at attention and salute. They, they very much take it very seriously.

[Armstrong]

Paul Hellman, thanks for coming in. Thank first of all, thanks for your time. All the years you donated to scouting and you know, just helping out youth all across America and all the people, all the volunteers that I've seen that work so hard. We're going to raise as much money as we can for you this week. We appreciate you coming in.

[Paul Hellman]

Thank you very much.

[Armstrong]

We got a lot of stories to.

[Paul Hellman]

Tell Armstrong and Getty.

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