Can't Say It Without a Tat

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: Can't Say It Without a Tat
Date: July 10, 2026
Host: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty
Notable Guests:

• Rep. Tom McClintock, Chair of the House Immigration Subcommittee
• Tim Sandifer, Vice President for Legal Affairs at the Goldwater Institute, author of “Proclaiming Liberty”

---

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on three central themes:

1. Government Waste and Bureaucracy:
   An in-depth conversation with Rep. Tom McClintock about federal spending inefficiencies, the sunsetting of the DOGE (Department of Government Efficiency), and Medicaid fraud.

2. Housing Affordability & Immigration Policy:
   Critical analysis of recent housing legislation and a deep dive into sanctuary cities, illegal immigration, and the tragic real-world consequences of policy.

3. Why America Is Exceptional:
   Armstrong speaks with historian and legal scholar Tim Sandifer about the Declaration of Independence, the revolutionary ideas of the Founders, and the ongoing debate over American exceptionalism.

Throughout, Armstrong & Getty blend personal stories, pointed questions, and historical perspective, all delivered with their familiar wit and skepticism.

---

1. Government Waste, DOGE, and the Bureaucratic State

With Rep. Tom McClintock
[02:36–08:27]

DOGE’s Impact and Government Waste

• The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), championed by Elon Musk, has officially wrapped up its temporary mandate to root out waste in federal spending.
• McClintock notes DOGE uncovered and cut $215 billion in government waste, approximately $1700 per household ([04:19]).
• "Musk thought that they could eliminate a trillion dollars in waste... I think he was in the ballpark." – Tom McClintock ([04:19])

Medicaid Fraud Highlights

• When President Biden took office, there were 80 fraud investigators for the near-trillion-dollar Medicaid program; that number was cut to only eight ([05:23]).
  • “There were eight people overseeing the spending of how much money to make sure there was no fraud?” – Jack Armstrong ([05:38])
  • "Eight fraud investigators, that's amazing." – Tom McClintock ([05:48])
• Under DOGE's influence, this has increased to roughly 1,200 fraud investigators.

Effectiveness of Fraud Detection:

• For each dollar spent on fraud detection, about $22 are saved ([05:48]).
• Amy Gleason, formerly of DOGE, is now leading the anti-fraud effort at CMS.

Bureaucratic Inertia:

• Government waste is endemic; agencies are reluctant to act even when fraud is documented.
• Example: California’s auditor provided Gov. Newsom a map of fraudulent hospice programs, and "nothing happened" ([07:36]).
• “Not a single hospice patient died. So they're that good.” – McClintock, sarcastically referring to the fraud-ridden hospice agencies ([08:27]).

---

2. Housing Affordability and Immigration Policy

With Rep. Tom McClintock
[08:27–14:05]

Housing Affordability and the Road to Housing Act

• McClintock critiques the “21st Century Road to Housing Act,” arguing it increases bureaucracy and actually raises housing costs ([08:44]).
  • “The most popular feature of it is that it prohibits corporations from buying homes and then renting them out… that's about 1% of the market.” – McClintock ([08:44])
  • Real issue: Governmental red tape and overregulation in states like California versus permit-friendly Texas.
    • Median home price: Texas $360,000, California $910,000 ([09:27]).

Immigration and Sanctuary Cities

• McClintock details a bill to override local “sanctuary” laws, permitting sheriffs to cooperate directly with ICE ([10:31]).
• He laments that sanctuary policies protect criminal illegal immigrants, citing that in the past year, 17,864 ICE detainers were ignored, with a quarter in California ([11:51]).
  • “These sanctuary laws do not… they're specifically aimed at protecting criminal, illegal aliens from being deported.” – McClintock ([10:31])
• Stories of angel families:
  • Mother of Sheridan Gorman, who testified after her daughter was killed by a released illegal immigrant; ignored by ranking Democrats ([12:09]).
    • “Told her to her face… we had better things to do than another hearing on the sanctuary policies that killed her daughter.” – McClintock ([12:09])
  • Stephanie Minner, murdered after her killer was released instead of handed to ICE:
    • “All you had to do was make a phone call, tell ICE you had this guy. They've got an $82 million budget. But she couldn't spare a dime to call ICE.” – McClintock ([13:05])

---

3. America’s Founding Principles & Exceptionalism

[14:05–40:24]

Freedom vs. Socialism – The Underlying American Debate

• Armstrong and McClintock discuss the “woke mind virus,” Marxism, and the ideological attacks on U.S. values, especially seen over the July 4th 250th anniversary ([14:05]).
• McClintock’s defense of American exceptionalism:
  • “Freedom and socialism… simply can’t coexist… Slavery and socialism spring from exactly the same rotten principle.” ([15:02])
  • “Capitalism requires no force because people make their own decisions. So that’s the great question that we’re facing.” ([16:17])
• Memorable analogy:
  • “If I take a dollar from Peter and give it to Paul... what you’ve really done is you rob both Peter and Paul of a dollar’s worth of incentive to help each other.” ([15:56])

Interview with Tim Sandifer: Proclaiming Liberty

[26:32–40:24]

Standing Before the Declaration

• Sandifer describes the experience of speaking beside the actual Declaration of Independence at the National Archives ([26:41]):
  • “We did a presentation about the book and then went upstairs and had dinner right there in front of the Declaration of Independence itself. It was really great.” – Tim Sandifer ([26:41])

The Founding and the 1619 Project

• Armstrong and Sandifer critique revisionist histories like the 1619 Project.
  • “This idea the revolution was fought to somehow preserve slavery is insane. The Founding Fathers are amazingly candid about the fact that they knew that slavery was inconsistent with their principles…” – Sandifer ([28:41])
  • Quotes Jefferson: “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and his justice cannot sleep forever.” ([29:07])

Is America Exceptional?

• “America is exceptional insofar as it pledges itself to realizing the principles of the Declaration of Independence… What sets us apart is our recognition that those things are unjust and ought to be cured.” – Sandifer ([30:35])
• Cites Martin Luther King, Jr.: “We ain’t what we ought to be, we ain’t what we want to be, we ain’t what we gonna be, but thank God we ain’t what we was.” ([31:25])

The Psychology of National Self-Loathing

• Armstrong wonders if America-criticism is a form of mental illness:
  • “There’s got to be some sort of mental illness there.” ([31:25])
• Sandifer: “It's a form of resentment… a hatred of the good for being good.” ([32:12])
  • Cites the play “Chanticleer” and the metaphorical dynamic of idealism and the temptation to tear down what’s noble.

Social Constructs and Modern Confusion

• Sandifer on “liberating” oneself from reality:
  • “If everything is just a social construct… that feels really liberating… But what you’re doing is you’re liberating yourself from the world, from the reality. And then you have only the freedom of the man who has suffered a shipwreck and finds himself alone in a lifeboat at sea.” ([34:27])

Revolutionary Ideas of the Declaration

• Armstrong: “You’re claiming a whole new thing here, that we have rights given to us by, you know, God or nature… This is a new thing, Tom.”
• Sandifer: “It really is a radical idea. And that's why we care so much. Because... these principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness really are true and really do matter.” ([35:55])

Historical Anomalies and the Talent Explosion in the Founding Era

• Armstrong: How could such a concentration of talent as Jefferson, Adams, Washington, and Madison emerge at once? ([36:47])
• Sandifer: “Part of it is the Enlightenment era… when reason and science and rational philosophy became prioritized to such a point that… statesmen were willing to overthrow even a practice like slavery.” ([36:47])
• Armstrong and Sandifer agree the transition from idealism to realpolitik—evident from Washington’s era onward—is a constant challenge (e.g., early polarization, partisan feuds).

George Washington’s Critical Role

• Armstrong: “It’s hard to imagine that this would have worked without George Washington just because everybody respected him so much.” ([39:05])
• Sandifer: “And who was willing to step back from power, which is just amazing… It's that kind of personality in some sense, the self-made man made America.” ([39:26])

Pop Culture: John Adams and Learning from History

• Armstrong recommends the John Adams HBO series, Episode 2, for a riveting portrayal of the Declaration’s adoption ([40:26]).

---

4. Memorable Moments and Quotes

• “Life was like a roll of toilet paper. The closer you got to the end, the faster it goes.”
  — Barry Goldwater Jr., quoted by Tom McClintock ([03:15])

• “Not a single hospice patient died. So they're that good.”
  — Tom McClintock, on fraudulent hospice agencies ([08:27])

• “All you had to do was make a phone call, tell ICE you had this guy in your custody… But she couldn't spare a dime to call ICE to pick up this dangerous criminal.”
  — Tom McClintock ([13:05])

• “If I take a dollar from Peter and give it to Paul, Paul's got an extra dollar to spend. Paul's better off. We've now hurt Peter to the same degree… but what you've really done is you rob both Peter and Paul of a dollar's worth of incentive to help each other.”
  — Tom McClintock, paraphrasing Milton Friedman ([15:56])

• "America is exceptional insofar as it pledges itself to realizing the principles of the Declaration of Independence."
  — Tim Sandifer ([30:35])

• “We ain’t what we ought to be, we ain’t what we want to be, we ain’t what we gonna be, but thank God we ain’t what we was.”
  — Martin Luther King, Jr., quoted by Tim Sandifer ([31:25])

• "If everything is just a social construct… that feels really liberating... But what you’re doing is liberating yourself from the world, from the reality."
  — Tim Sandifer ([34:27])

---

5. Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------|---------------| | Interview with Tom McClintock (waste, fraud, gov’t) | 02:36–14:05 | | Sanctuary cities and tragic consequences | 10:31–14:05 | | American exceptionalism & the Peter-Paul analogy | 15:02–17:17 | | Feature interview: Tim Sandifer | 26:32–40:24 | | Founding ideas, 1619 Project, Declaration | 28:14–36:47 | | Founders’ talent and historical context | 36:47–39:32 |

---

6. Tone and Delivery

The Armstrong & Getty Show maintains its signature blend of irreverence, skepticism, and patriotism. Commentary is sharp, with a conversational style that seamlessly moves from policy wonkery and history lessons to jokes and personal anecdotes.

---

For listeners seeking a deep, engaging, and at times passionate exploration of America’s founding ideals, the persistent challenges of government waste, and the ongoing fight over national identity, this episode is essential.

Transcript

[Orderly Meds Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human summer is here, which means we all want to look and feel our best. A GLP1 may be right for you. Visit orderlymeds.com to learn more about which GLP1 you could be eligible for. Getting started is fast, easy and happens virtually through telemedicine from licensed professionals. Check it out for yourself. Go to orderlymeds.com podcast that's orderlymeds.com podcast. Taking care of yourself feels great. Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

[Jack Armstrong]

Do you want to find a stress free way to buy your next car? Start at CarMax and shop your way. If you want to browse with confidence, get pre qualified online with no impact on your credit score and shop cars within your budget. From luxury cars to family rides, CarMax has options for almost every price range, including more than 25,000 cars priced under $25,000. So hey, want to get started? Just head to CarMax.com for details and get pre qualified today. Want to drive CarMax?

[X Games Announcer]

The best skaters, BMX riders and moto athletes in the world don't compete in leagues until now. The X Games League Championship is live From New Orleans, July 24 through 26. Three days of elite action sports, plus performances from metro Boomin, Jid Subtronics and Bunt Watch on ABC, ESPN and ESPN 2. Stream on the ESPN ESPN app, Roku Kick, Amazon and X Games YouTube. The inaugural champion gets crowned this July.

[Bethenny Frankel]

This is Bethany Frankel from Just Be with Bethany Frankel. Most dog food is marketing, not nutrition. That is why Biggie and Smalls eat just food for dogs. Real 100 human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize. And yes, I do see the difference. Better digestion, healthier skin, more energy. Dogs that feel better. My babies, if you've been on the fence about switching, stop overthinking it. What's more important than your furry babies and their health? Go to justfoodfordogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code needed. Just try it.

[Tom McClintock]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio

[Jack Armstrong]

Studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center,

[Tom McClintock]

Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. Armstrong and Getty. And now here. Here's Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

We've been Talking to Tom McLintock for 25 years, something like that on the Armstrong and Getty show. Going way back to when we were all much younger and he was a just a California assemblyman and then eventually making it into the Congress of the United States of America. Currently representing the 5th district of California. He's the chair of the immigration subcommittee. Tom McClintock, welcome back to the Armstrong and Getty Show.

[Tom McClintock]

Oh, thanks for having me back. And you realize it's been closer to 30 years now, Jack.

[Jack Armstrong]

Really?

[Tom McClintock]

Man, I hate doing that math, but there it is.

[Jack Armstrong]

I know the way time moves when you get older is shocking.

[Tom McClintock]

Barry Goldwater Jr. Once told me that life was like a roll of toilet paper. The closer you got to the end, the faster it goes.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's certainly true. I'm going to give you a little warning that you can work on in your subconscious before we do these other top because it was driving me crazy over the 4th of July, 250th anniversary. Some of the stuff flying around on social media and on cable news of people that hate this country and think it's, you know, a force for evil because you're so good at your up with the United States and, and why we're a good country stuff. I'm gonna hit you with that before we let you go today. But starting here, Doge, I guess officially wrapped up Elon Musk and others efforts to try to rein in government spending and waste and all that sort of stuff is how successful were they? Why was it so hard for them to do anything about government waste? We've had stories exploding just in the last couple of weeks in the California Post and other places about the amount of waste of federal dollars in California. Where are we on that story?

[Tom McClintock]

Well, again, that's largely because of the work that Doge did. Turning over rocks and shining the light on the bureaucracy and watching the bureaucra scurry for cover. It was always slated to expire on July 4th of 2026. It was never to be a permanent agency. You know, Musk thought that they could eliminate a trillion dollars in waste. And it's possible when you look at the Medicaid, hospice, daycare, student aid, DEI and other frauds that are now being fully investigated by the Department of Justice. I think he was in the ballpark. They documented savings about $215 billion. That's nothing to sneeze at. No $1700 per household. But. But the work they did is now being carried on by the Department of Justice and all the other agencies. Just to give you one example, Mehmet Oz told us recently that when Biden entered office, there were just 80 fraud investigators in the entire Medicaid program. That's nearly a trillion dollar program.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow, that is incredible.

[Tom McClintock]

It gets worse. Biden's HHS Secretary 1 Javier Becerra, who's now waiting to be anointed governor of California. When he came in, he cut that number to just eight. Well, Oz is.

[Jack Armstrong]

So let's just. We got it. We gotta, we gotta spend a little time on this. There were eight people overseeing the spending of how much money to make sure there was no fraud.

[Tom McClintock]

Not, not overseeing, investigating fraud. Eight fraud investigators, that's amazing. 80. But now that's being amped up to about 1200. And they're currently estimating that for every dollar that they're spending on fraud detection, they're producing about $22 in savings. And by the way, guess who's heading up that effort at cms? Doge's former acting director, Amy Gleason. So Dodge is leading, is living on through these agencies.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's amazing. And conservatives know this and also know that the. To keep government from wasting money is to not give it to them in the first place. It's really your only hope. But it's amazing how freely governments at all levels are willing to waste taxpayers money.

[Tom McClintock]

Yeah, well, that's bureaucratic behavior. It's in the system itself. And as you said, the founders had it right. The best way to deal with it is to provide for limited government and to trust the people with the judgment over how to run their own lives rather than having the government try to run their lives for them. I mean, you know, I've been in this business a long time and you know, these, these leftists who think they're so good at running their own lives that they're also entitled to run everybody else's. You get to know them, you realize they're not very good at running their own lives.

[Jack Armstrong]

Either is often the case. Yeah. And you know, when the story exploded in Minnesota with the waste, a lot of people knew and it turned out to be true. California was saying, you know, hold my EBT card. It turned out California is going to be once we uncover all this. And federal taxpayers should be angry all across the country about this spending.

[Tom McClintock]

Oh sure, because it's their money and it's disappearing into this gigantic kleptocracy. And for. No, there's no excuse for it. You know, California's state auditor looked at all of these fraudulent hospice programs. They actually produced a map of this huge concentration of hospice agencies in Los Angeles. Took that to Governor Newsom and nothing happened. Same story with the whistleblowers in Minnesota. Took it to Tim Waltz. He did absolutely nothing. Now I will say in defense of the hospice providers in Los Angeles, Not a single hospice patient died. So they're that good.

[Bethenny Frankel]

Fantastic.

[Jack Armstrong]

Fantastic. Switching topics because I know you have a limited time. 21st century road to Housing Act. Affordability is the word that's on everybody. Lip everybody's lips. It seems to be in both parties. What is the 21st century road to Housing act and how could that help people?

[Tom McClintock]

Well, I don't think it's going to help people. In fact, the Wall Street Journal said on several editorials against it, pointing out that all of the additional bureau. You see that they're creating all the additional regulations that actually unit cause drive up the cost of housing. The most popular feature of it is that it prohibits corporations from buying homes and then renting them out. Well, that's about 1% of the market. And it will slightly reduce the price of housing, but at the same time, it will slightly increase the price of rentals because you're reducing the supply of rentals, Increasing supply of housing, decreasing supply of rentals. That doesn't accomplish anything. Look, if you want to know everything there is about what's wrong with housing prices and how government. Reagan was right. Government's not the solution to these problems. Government is the problem. But one statistic tells you a lot. There were more housing permits granted in Dallas and Houston last year and were granted in the entire state of California combined. The median price of a home in Texas is $360,000. In California, it's $910,000. We've done it to ourselves by imposing expensive mandates on construction, limiting the permits to be issued, charging exorbitant fees when they do issue permits, restricting the land that's available for housing, flooding the market with subsidies. And by the way, the demand pressure of adding 10 million illegal aliens to the market during the Biden years didn't help either.

[Jack Armstrong]

Since you brought up illegal aliens and illegal immigration, where are we on sanctuary cities? Because I know you're on the immigration subcommittee. You're the chair, actually. Where's the whole sanctuary city story?

[Tom McClintock]

Well, we've got a bill that will preempt sanctuary jurisdictions and allow the local sheriffs, who desperately want, many of them, desperately want to cooperate with ICE but are forbidden by state law. We preempt those state laws, allow them to enter into direct agreements with ICE for enforcement, and it also allows the angel families to sue ICE jurisdictions who recklessly released criminal aid aliens rather than turning them over to ICE for deportation. I mean, people have to understand these sanctuary laws do not. This is not general immigration enforcement. They're specifically aimed at protecting criminal, illegal Aliens from being deported. So instead of turning over prisoners in their custody to ICE for deportation, these sanctuary jurisdictions instead release them back into our communities. And you heard of the countless tragedies that resulted. Last year, sanctuary jurisdictions in the United States refused to honor 17,864 ICE detainer requests. And a quarter of the releases, by the way, were in California. Now these were criminals in custody whom federal law requires be deported. Instead, the sanctuaries release them back into our community.

[Jack Armstrong]

God, that's just, that's unconscionable. I don't know how you sleep at night. That's the weird thing about ideology that I don't quite get. That you can like trump your common sense where you think, you know what. I believe in diversity, so I'm gonna let criminals back on the street. I just, I don't get it.

[Tom McClintock]

Well, we just have appeared before our committee that the mother of Sheridan Gorman, she's the 18 year old college student in Chicago, she went out for a night to look at the northern lights with her friends. She was shot in the back of the head by an illegal alien who had been arrested in Chicago, should have been turned over to ice, instead was released back in the community. That's the reason she's dead. Her mother came to testify. It was heartbreaking testimony, but the ranking Democrat on our committee told her to her face, and by the way, there are probably a dozen other angel families in the audience, told her to her face that we had better things to do than another hearing on the sanctuary policies that killed her daughter. Can you believe that?

[Jack Armstrong]

It's just, it's. I, like I said, I don't know how some of these people sleep at night. I don't know. I don't know how they justify this to themselves.

[Tom McClintock]

Well, we had, we had another hearing. The mother, Stephanie Minter was there. She was a young lady stabbed to death by an illegal alien that Fairfax county had in custody for other crimes. Had an ICE detainer a requested to turn over to ice, instead released this murderer back into the community where he murdered Stephanie Mitter. The woke sheriff who had released her said that well, they just didn't have money in their budget to cooperate with ice. And I said all you had to do was make a phone call, tell ICE you had this guy in your custody. So they come pick him up. They've got an $82 million budget. But she couldn't spare a dime to call ICE to pick up this dangerous criminal. She released him back onto the streets. And Stephanie Minner's dead as a result. I mean, these stories keep piling up and they're going to pile up until we deal with these sanctuary jurisdictions.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Making the transition to final topic here, I'm starting to believe that there is something like to this idea of a woke mind virus that fits in with Marxism or something where it just, it's, it's like a mental disease. Speaking of which, I was following the national debate over the last weekend, 250th anniversary of independence Day. All the great stuff that I was coming across with, with our history and our founding and why America is an exceptional country. Then you had the pushback from, you know, some people in the crowd, whether it's Mayor Mamdani in New York or others floating around on Twitter or whatever, on how the world would be better without the United States and we're a force for evil and this and that. And you're one of my favorite amateur historians when it comes to the founding and what's good about America. Hit us with a little spiel of why America is an exceptional country and good for the world.

[Tom McClintock]

Well, what we're facing is a fundamental question between two antithetical principles that simply can't coexist. Freedom and socialism. We had that problem before. More than 100 years ago, the question was freedom or slavery. And if you think about it, slavery and socialism spring from exactly the same rotten principle that Lincoln described as the same spirit that says, you work and toil and make bread and I will eat it. So you hear from people like Tim Walsh, well, one man's socialism is another man's neighborliness. And you hear, well, capitalism, that's just dog eat dog selfishness, looking out for yourself. Socialism is sharing and caring. They have that completely backwards. The only possible way to succeed in a free capitalist society is that you have to figure out what somebody else needs and how to get it for them better than they can get it for themselves. It might be mowing their lawn, it might be doing brain surgery on their child, but you have to help somebody else. Socialism is taking what one person has earned by helping another and giving it to somebody who has it. It's true. If I take a dollar from Peter and give it to Paul, Paul's got an extra dollar that spend. Paul's better off. We've now hurt Peter to the same degree. That's what Milton Friedman warned. You can't say government's going to help one person without the same breath saying it's going to hurt somebody else. But what you've really done is you rob both Peter and Paul of a dollar's worth of incentive to help each other. Paul no longer needs to help Peter. He already has his dollar. Peter no longer has to help Paul because he doesn't profit from it anymore. And the glue that holds a civilization together breaks apart. And the other thing is you need tons of force in a socialist system because you have to compel people to act against their own interest and judgment. Capitalism requires no force because people make their own decisions. So that's the great question that we're facing. And that's the question that's going to be resolved, I think, over the next several elections.

[Jack Armstrong]

I've heard that story before and I love it from you. The Peter Pay and Paul thing. I wish you could get into every school and. And you know, have everybody hear that at least once before they graduate high school. He's from the fifth district of California. He's their congressman. Tom McClintock. Thanks for your time today, Tom.

[Tom McClintock]

My pleasure, Jack. Thanks for having me.

[Jack Armstrong]

Boy, and that stuff about the force required to make socialism work, that's where you end up with the millions dead. But anyway, we'll be plenty talking about that plenty over the next, you know, days, weeks, years and centuries probably. I want to tell you about rough greens, which is a good idea for your dog. It's something you sprinkle on your dog's food. You stay with your dog's food. You just ask, add more nutrition to it. All natural, made in the USA and over 20 vitamins and minerals. We're going to get to get live probiotics, enzymes, omega oils, that sort of stuff. Why not try it? It's free. All you do is pay the shipping. Get a free jump start trial bag today. When you cover the shipping, go to roughgreens.com and use a discount code ARMSTRONG. That's ruffgreens.com discount code ARMSTRONG. Rough greens makes any dog food better. I knew Tom would be good on the whole, what's good with America versus socialism, etc. Again, you can graduate high school and never hear a spiel at all about why socialism is bad and capitalism is good, even though that's the system we have. Stunning. Okay, a lot more on the way. Stay here.

[Tom McClintock]

Armstrong and Gettysburg.

[Orderly Meds Announcer]

Summer is here at orderly Meds. We know this time is a reminder that life is full of new beginnings. Whether you're celebrating the nice weather, starting a new chapter, planning a vacation, or simply looking ahead to what's next, this season can be the perfect time to invest in yourself and your health. If you've struggled with weight loss and are curious about GLP1 medications orderly meds can help you learn about your options. Through a simple virtual process, you can connect with licensed medical professionals who can determine whether treatment may be appropriate for you. Getting started is fast, convenient and happens online from the comfort of home. This summer, consider a new approach to feeling your best. Visit orderlymeds.com podcast to learn more. That's orderlymeds.com podcast orderlymeds.com podcast because every new season is an opportunity to take the next step forward, compounded medications are not FDA approved, eligibility required and determined by license provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

[X Games Announcer]

The best skaters, BMX riders and moto athletes in the world don't compete in leagues until now. The X Games League Championship is live From New Orleans, July 24 through 26. Three days of elite action sports, plus performances from metro Boomin, Jid Subtronics and Bunt Watch on ABC ESPN and ESPN2. Stream on the ESP ESPN app, Roku Kick, Amazon and X Games YouTube. The inaugural champion gets crowned this July.

[Bethenny Frankel]

This is Bethany Frankel from Just Be with Bethany Frankel. Let me be blunt. Most dog food is junk. It just is. And I'm not feeding junk to Biggie and Smalls. That is why they eat just food for dogs. It's real, 100% human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize. Not mystery pellets pretending to be healthy. And once I switched, the difference was obvious. Better digestion, better skin, more energy. Dogs who actually feel good instead of just surviving dinner. Here's the thing. You care about quality. You make an intentional choice to be healthy. So why are you gambling with your dog's health? So let's think about our furry babies. Go to justfoodfordogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code. Just try it. Because once you see the difference, you're not going back.

[Glenn Washington]

I'm Glenn Washington, host of the Snap Judgment storytelling podcast from kqed. Every week, Snap deals a new card. Like the San Francisco girl selling weed brownies after school who uncovers a secret. Or the Oakland man who invented the wave and never got his credit. Or even the actual Lake Merritt monster. What? Pick a card, any card. Snap Judgment with KQED new episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcast.

[Jack Armstrong]

In my mind, Tim Sandifer is America's foremost proponent. Somebody in favor of let's let me say that because I can't get out more than two syllable words. His book proclaiming Liberty, about the Declaration of Independence and Tim Sandifer got to give a speech about it the other day, standing next to the actual Declaration of Independence, which he said was one of the favorite things he's ever done in his life. We'll talk to him about that, among other things. Coming up in a little bit. A few things. Kind of a breaking news thing. Trump just redeclared that the ceasefire with Iran is officially over. He also said that Iran has asked to continue talks and has agreed to the talks. How those two things square, I have no idea whatsoever. But this news breaking fits in with that a little bit. The Secret Service has upped the protection around JD Vance and his home, which I assume fits in with the Wall Street Journal story today of new threats from Iran on Trump's life. Some sort of specific plot to kill Trump from the Iranians. And they're up in the protection on J.D. vance. I have no idea what the Iranians are up to. It makes no sense to me. They had such a good deal going. The money spigot got turned back on. They were dragging their feet on the nuclear talks and nobody was complaining about it. Why did they fire on those ships? I'll tell you why. I think. I think because Trump was right when he said they're crazy efforts. They're crazy effers. Like, why would you want it? Do you think you're going to get what you want by assassinating Trump? That would be insane. But they're insane people and it's tough to deal with crazy people.

[Glenn Washington]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, Katie. Katie, the news lady with her new baby tried to join a mom's group on Facebook. What happened will shock you.

[Glenn Washington]

You.

[Jack Armstrong]

We'll get to that in the next half hour. Also, stick around. If you missed a segment of the podcast. Armstrong and Getty on demand.

[Tom McClintock]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Orderly Meds Announcer]

Summer is here, which means we all want to look and feel our best. A GLP1 may be right for you. Visit orderlymeds.com to learn more about which GLP1 you could be eligible for. Getting started is fast, easy, and happens virtually through telemedicine from licensed professionals. Check it out for yourself. Go to order orderlymeds.com podcast that's orderlymeds.com podcast. Taking care of yourself feels great. Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

[X Games Announcer]

The first ever X Games League championship is going down live. And New Orleans has the call. Three days of elite action sports. A season's worth of competition coming down to one final weekend watch. July 24 through 26 on ABC, ESPN and ESPN2, or stream on the ESPN app, X Games, YouTube, Kick, Roku sports channel and Amazon. The championship starts July 24. Don't miss the moment. It becomes history.

[Bethenny Frankel]

This is Bethenny Frankel from Just Be with Bethany Frankel. Let me be blunt. Most dog food is junk. It just is. And I'm not feeding junk to Biggie and Smalls. That is why they eat just food for dogs. It's real, 100% human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize, not mystery pellets pretending to be healthy. And once I switched, the difference was obvious. Better digestion, better skin, more energy. Dogs who actually feel good instead of just surviving dinner. Here's the thing you care about quality. You make an intentional choice to be healthy. So why are you gambling with your dog's health? So let's think about our furry babies. Go to justfood4dogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code. Just try it. Because once you see the difference, you're not going back.

[Glenn Washington]

I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment from kqed. Every week, snap drops you inside someone's biggest decision, the kind of decision you can only make once. With everything on the line. What do you believe? What do you want? And what would you risk to get it? Find out. Snap Judgment. New episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jack Armstrong]

So I mentioned earlier that I feel like it's an advantage. I've reached the age now that if I have a problem, people help me willingly because they think, look, that poor old man is confused or lost or something. And they help me. One of the downsides of getting older, I now have to deal with my eyebrows on a near daily basis. I had never thought about my eyebrows in my entire life. They needed no care or attention my entire life. And now it's a near daily struggle to keep them under control. Aging? Who knew? So I think if you're going to read one book ever about the Declaration of Independence, it ought to be Proclaiming Liberty by our friend Tim Sandifer, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and the Declaration of Independence. And Tim joins the show. I'm about to say something. Tim, welcome. Thanks for coming on again.

[Tim Sandifer]

Thank you.

[Jack Armstrong]

I saw your tweet about what you said. Of all the cool things you've got to do in your life, you did maybe the coolest thing ever the other day.

[Glenn Washington]

What was it?

[Tim Sandifer]

I got to speak about my book at an event at the national archives in Washington, D.C. which of course is the same building where the Declaration of Independence itself is on display. We had a. There's an event there for school teachers that the Cato Institute organizes where it helps teach them some of the things that they might go on to teach their students. And so we did a presentation about the book and then went upstairs and had dinner right there in front of the Declaration of Independence itself. It was really great.

[Jack Armstrong]

That is cool. I rewatched. So I got on a big founding kick, like lots of people did, especially people who love the country did over the last weeks and months. And it continues. But I watched the first several episodes of the John Adams series where they get into the. Debating the Declaration and then. And then the voting for it. Man, I've seen that two or three times, and it's powerful. Each time. I really feel like it gets. High school teachers often do such a bad job of telling this story and taking all the fun out of it. These guys who had rich. Most of them were rich and comfortable, and they signed on to something where they were going to be hung. If they lost, they were going to

[Tim Sandifer]

be hung, no question. And they're. And they're facing down the most powerful empire on the planet at the time, the largest imperial government since the days of ancient Rome. And here they go and they. They say, we are no longer part of you, and we're willing to fight to the death for our freedom. That's. It's a dramatic story, and it ought to be told dramatically. And you're right. That HBO series is easily the best movie ever made about the American Revolution.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. So the, you know, I guess we already got to the 1619 project. I didn't mean to get there that fast, but the idea that these founders, you know, it was all about coming up with a way to keep the black man down and perpetually enslaved was why I risked the fact that I'm a rich farmer with a great life and I'm gonna get hung. If I don't pull one of the ups, maybe the greatest upset in history by defeating the Brits, I'm gonna be hung. But it's, you know, it's worth it to make sure black people are slaves.

[Tim Sandifer]

No, it's absurd. This idea that the revolution was fought to somehow preserve slavery is insane. The Founding Fathers are amazingly candid about the fact that they knew that slavery was inconsistent with their principles and that they would have to do something about it. And I don't know that there's any precedent for that in world history where you have this revolutionary cadre that says, we're going to break with the mother country on the principles of liberty and equality. And we know that we are currently violating those principles in a practice that is the foundation stone of our very economy. And it goes further. Jefferson says, just a few years later, he wrote, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and his justice cannot sleep forever. There is no attribute of a just God who could side with whites in a race war. And so here he's saying we deserve to be slaughtered in a race war because of the crime of slavery. Who else has been so candid about the basis of their entire economy? Now, they knew that they couldn't abolish slavery overnight. That would take a great deal of work in order to avoid indiscriminate mass slaughter. And so, of course, they didn't abolish slavery immediately, but they did something that was incredibly important by proclaiming equality and liberty at the centerpiece of the new nation. And thus, as Abraham Lincoln later said, putting slavery on the course of ultimate extinction.

[Jack Armstrong]

So I got sucked into the whole America is an exceptional nation or not thing there for about 48 hours. And it was really making me angry with the mayor of New York City, pushing back on the idea that we're exceptional and a number of other jackasses who are offended by the idea that this is an exceptional notion, our country. Can you give a little pro. Exceptional?

[Tim Sandifer]

Of course America is exceptional. America is exceptional insofar as it pledges itself to realizing the principles of the Declaration of Independence. And of course, those principles, of course, those are just words on paper. It's up to you and me to put them into actual practice and make them part of our nation's life. And of course, we have done. Done terrible things that in the past that have violated those principles, obviously, as has every other nation in the world. What sets us apart is our recognition that those things are unjust and ought to be cured. And the amazing, amazing progress we have made to abolishing those things and curing ourselves of those things. There's a line Martin Luther King once said, we ain't what we ought to be, we ain't what we want to be, we ain't what we gonna be, but thank God we ain't what we was.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's pretty good. You're. You're a lawyer and a founding expert, and all the things that people have been listening to you over the years know you are. You're not a psychologist, but I'm starting to think that there's some sort of mental illness that hasn't been named yet that Needs to be in the DSM around this. Need to exaggerate the flaws and downplay the, the, the. The good stuff. Weird. I've been using the analogy of on your 50th wedding anniversary when everybody gets together and you're having cake with the friends. You just keep Talking about the four bad things your husband of 50 years did over the years rather than look at the totality of the marriage that you've stayed in. Because it's good. There's got to be some sort of mental illness there.

[Tim Sandifer]

Yeah, I think it's, it's a, it's a form of resentment. It's a form of soul destroying resentment. It goes much deeper than envy and it's a hatred of the good for being good. It's a hatred of good things just for the fact that they even try to aspire to look upward. I'm often reminded there's a play called Chanticleer. It's 100 years old and it's a cute little play about a rooster who thinks that his crowing causes the sun to rise. Which is amusing, but it's also in a deeper level it's about idealism because what happens in the play is the other barnyard animals conspire to deprive him of his belief. Belief by dropping a flower pot over him so that when the sun rises he's unable to crow. And then that'll prove that his ideals are nonsense. And in the end when he's confronted by this, he has this wonderful line where he says, I knew that my crowing caused the sun to rise because the forces of darkness rejoiced at my silence. And that's what people like that are. They ridicule and condemn the forces of light because they can't really come to believe there's something in them that resists, presents that goodness and thinks it's a virtue. They think they're being virtuous by hating.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Tim Sandifer]

The accomplishments of the past.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's what's so annoying about it.

[Tim Sandifer]

Yeah, yeah. And, and, and it's, and I think it has to do with a sort of disc, a need for discontent that I think is generated by resentment.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Like I said, I think there's some sort of mental illness there that's going to be in the DSM at some point because it's, it's also very liberating.

[Tim Sandifer]

It's also liberating if you think that, that all of the injustices in the world are created are social constructs. If everything is social constructs, there's no Real truth to things like equality and liberty. Everything's just a social construct that feels really liberating because that means you can remake the world tomorrow. And, you know, everything can be men and men can be women, and the poor can be rich and everything can, if we just believe strong enough. That feels really liberating. But what you're doing is you're liberating yourself from the world, from the reality. And then you have only the freedom of the man who has suffered a shipwreck and finds himself alone in a lifeboat at sea. That's the kind of freedom you've accomplished

[Jack Armstrong]

that way back to the Declaration of Independence, on which you are an expert in your book. Proclaiming liberty could not be better. Singing about the John Adams series and the scene where John Adams is reading what Jefferson wrote for the first time and he is like, wow, so you're not just writing a piece here on why we need to get away from England and declare independence. You're claiming a whole new thing here, that we have rights given to us by, you know, God or nature or however you want to put it, that exist. This is a new thing, Tom. So that was a pretty revolutionary idea, right?

[Tim Sandifer]

Yes. And that's my favorite scene in the whole movie. It's just marvelous. And it's so beautifully acted and everything. And I love how Jefferson responds by just saying, well, it's what I believe. Yeah, yeah, right. But yeah, and then it really is a radical dime. And that's why we care so much. Because, you know, every society has had revolutions and over and over again and most of them are forgotten in obscure books of history about some revolution on some Greek island a thousand years ago, or the revolution they had last week in South America and the weeks before that and the week before that and the week before that. And they get nowhere and they accomplish nothing. Nothing. What makes the American Revolution so fascinating 250 years later is because these principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness really are true and, and really are self evident and really do matter. And of course, because it's up to us to make them a reality.

[Jack Armstrong]

There are some anomalies of history that. I know you're an atheist, so you can't credit it to God.

[Tom McClintock]

I don't.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's just amazing that these things happen. Like I was reading on a sideline about art. I was reading this last night at the same time In Florence, in 1504, town of 50,000 people, you had Leonardo working on the Mona Lisa, you had Michelangelo working on the David, you had Machiavelli writing things. You had Raphael painting in a town of 50,000 people. I mean, it just. How does that possibly happen? Same sort of situation with the founding in these quite small towns. How did you end up with the talent of Jefferson, Adams, George Washington, Madison, and a whole bunch of other lesser names that should be better known at the same time? It's just stunning.

[Tim Sandifer]

It is. And part of it is the Enlightenment era. You know, that's the term that historians use for this period in the mid 17th to late 18th century time when reason and science and rational philosophy became prioritized to such a point that philosophers and statesmen were willing to overthrow even a practice like slavery in order to accomplish justice and to defend their position so rationally. It's really, really remarkable. I'd like to think that Phoenix 2026 is the same way.

[Jack Armstrong]

There you go. I was surprised to hear, I don't remember what podcast I was listening to a book or something like that that just when we had you on last time, you were giving me a reality check about. You know, we've had a lot of periods in our country going back to the very founding where there was a tremendous amount of polarization and people thought that the other side was out to destroy the country. So this isn't new, but man, some of the dealing, like in George Washington's first term, where people were hiding this information or lying about this or that, I mean, it happened very quickly. So that's just part of the deal, I guess.

[Tim Sandifer]

You know, there's this tendency of every movement to go from a point where everybody volunteers because they believe in the cause and they're willing to go the extra mile for it and everything because it's an emergency and it's kind of temporary. And so everybody's all yoking together and then it transitions into a more stable position where people have to make a living for themselves and provide for the families and have a regular job and things, and they become a little less, less interested in the cause and a little more self interested. And that transition is often the point where revolutions fail and people end up having their heads chopped off. And America was very, very fortunate that it was at that position that we created the Constitution and implemented the rule of law. Which is really the most important principle at the Declaration, I mean, at the revolutionary stage, is the idea that the Americans don't owe their allegiance to any individual. We owe our allegiance to the law and all. And our liberty is liberty under the law as a disembodied abstraction. That's what's really unique and why we were spared a lot of what things like the French Revolution devolved into.

[Jack Armstrong]

I know Jefferson's your famous founding father and that would be for his ideas. But again, reading and listening to podcasts, it's hard to imagine that this would have worked without George Washington just because everybody respected him so much. If you didn't have one singular person that everybody was willing to listen to.

[Tim Sandifer]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

We'd have been doomed.

[Tim Sandifer]

Yeah. And. And who was willing to step back from.

[Jack Armstrong]

Which is just amazing.

[Tim Sandifer]

It's, it is incredible. And by the way, have you seen the new young Washington movie?

[Jack Armstrong]

No.

[Tim Sandifer]

Oh, yeah. It just came out. It's about his early career when he's a soldier during the French and Indian War. And it's, it's really. I thought it was pretty good. It, you know, it's rough moments. Oh, it's a cool show because what they show is they show one of the biggest mistakes of his life. And I was impressed by how dramatically they demonstrate how, how badly he screwed up. And then it shows how he learned from that and became a better leader as a result. And it's that kind of personality, you know, in, in some sense the self made man made America. And that's why, that's why we are a different society than these other places.

[Jack Armstrong]

Good stuff as always, Tim the Lawyer Sandifer, Vice President for Legal affairs, the Goldwater Institute. And his book is Proclaiming Liberty and it is worth owning and reading. Thanks for your time again, Tim.

[Tim Sandifer]

Thank you so much.

[Tom McClintock]

You bet.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that John Adams series. If you don't want to watch the whole thing and you're just interested in the declaration stuff, episode two, just, just watch episode two on hbo Max. It's fantastic. Okay, we got more to come. Stay here.

[Tom McClintock]

Armstrong and Gettysburg.

[Orderly Meds Announcer]

Summer is here at Orderly Meds. We know this time is a reminder that life is full of new beginnings. Whether you're celebrating the nice weather, starting a new chapter, planning a vacation, or simply looking ahead to what's next, this season can be the perfect time to invest in yourself and your health. If you've struggled with weight loss and are curious about GLP1 medications, orderly meds can help you learn about your options. Through a simple virtual process, you can connect with licensed medical professional who can determine whether treatment may be appropriate for you. Getting started is fast, convenient and happens online from the comfort of home. This summer, consider a new approach to feeling your best. Visit orderlymeds.com podcast to learn more. That's orderlymeds.com podcast orderlymeds.com podcast because every new season is an opportunity to take the next step forward. Compounded medications are not FDA approved eligibility requirements and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

[X Games Announcer]

The best skaters, BMX riders and moto athletes in the world don't compete in leagues until now. The X Games League Championship is live From New Orleans, July 24 through 26. Three days of elite action sports, plus performances from Metro Boomin, Jid Subtronics and Bunt watch on ABC ESPN and ESPN2. Stream on the ESPN app, Roku Kick, Amazon and X Games YouTube. The inaugural champion gets crowned this July.

[Bethenny Frankel]

This is Bethenny Frankel from Just Be with Bethenny Frankel. Let me be blunt. Most dog food is junk. It just is. And I'm not feeding junk to Biggie and Smalls. That is why they eat just food for dogs. It's real, 100% human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize. Not mystery pellets pretending to be healthy. And once I switched, the difference was obvious. Obvious. Better digestion, better skin, more energy. Dogs who actually feel good instead of just surviving dinner. Here's the thing. You care about quality. You make an intentional choice to be healthy. So why are you gambling with your dog's health? So let's think about our furry babies. Go to justfood4dogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code. Just try it. Because once you see the difference, you're not going back. Welcome back.

[Glenn Washington]

I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment, the award winning storytelling podcast from kqed. And every week Snap deals a new card. Like jumping on Rihanna's private plane. Or the accidental bank robber. Or even the man who was swallowed by a hippo.

[Tom McClintock]

What?

[Glenn Washington]

Pick a card, any card. Snap Judgment from kqed. New episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcast, we could

[Jack Armstrong]

send a humanoid into that same situation and accomplish the same things. Hostage negotiation. Breach the door, go inside of the house, do all the talking and recording. I can program it to do whatever I want to do. Hit buttons. As you saw, it started fighting, it started dancing. It talks any motion that I wanted to to do, I can program it to do. Sheriff unveils humanoid robot for hostaging negotiation purposes. I can program it to do anything I want to do. Start dancing. Is that going to help in the hostage negotiation at some point? Do the running man. See if that makes him give up the hostages. Yeah, I can definitely believe that that's a feature though. I don't know about the robot actually doing the negotiating, but certainly going in there and maybe you talk to it through a microphone or something. Anyway, so we were just talking about the founding of this great country and I was talking about the John Adams series on HBO Max, based on the book by David McCullough. And one of the things McCullough did a good job of is making Abigail Adams John Adams wife front and center in the whole story. She is definitely, she should be considered one of the founding fathers, if you're okay with that term. She played such a role in John Adams decision making and support so that he could do what he did. And it's really, really interesting. A political marriage not as good as John Adams and Abigail Adams, Kristi Noem and her husband Brian and this sad news. Christine Ohm, the ex director of dhs, is divorcing her husband Brian after the cross dressing bombshell. Some people are seeing this as a tit for tat move. That was Michael's joke, which I thought was very, very funny. You know what's funny about the term tit for tat? Because obviously the joke is, you know, her husband, those giant bazoombas, he's some sort of weird cross dresser online thingy. You can say tit for tat as long as you got the for tat at the end of it. You can't say the first part of it without the for tat or I get in all kinds of trouble. Like I could get sued or lose my job. I can say tit for tat, but I as long as I say for tat. Even though he had enormous tit for tats right there on display with one of them pointing that way and one of them pointing that way. We're going to talk to Katie Green, our news person who is a new mom coming up in our 4 4. She tried to get on Facebook on a mom's group and what the moms group thing said is hilarious around the whole woke issue. Just ridiculous. Also got clips of the week. If you miss anything from hour four, get the podcast Armstrong and Getty on Demand. Subscribe and you'll get lots of it. Armstrong and Getty on Demand.

[Tom McClintock]

Armstrong and Gettysburg.

[Orderly Meds Announcer]

Summer is here, which means we all want to look and feel our best. A GLP1 may be right for you. Visit orderlymeds.com to learn more about which GLP1 you could be eligible for. Getting started is fast, easy and happens virtually through telemedicine from licensed professionals. Check it out for yourself. Go to orderlymeds.com podcast that's orderlymeds.com podcast taking care of yourself feels great. Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Eligibility required and determined by by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

[X Games Announcer]

The best skaters, BMX riders and moto athletes in the world don't compete in leagues until now. The X Games League Championship is live From New Orleans, July 24 through 26. Three days of elite action sports, plus performances from metro Boomin, Jid Subtronics and Bunt watch on ABC ESPN and ESPN2 stream on the ESPN app, Roku Kick, Amazon and X Games YouTube. The inaugural champion gets crowned this July.

[Bethenny Frankel]

This is Bethany Frankel from Just Be with Bethany Frankel. Most dog food is marketing, not nutrition. That is why Biggie and Smalls eat just food for dogs. Real 100 human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize. And yes, I do see the difference. Better digestion, healthier skin, more energy. Dogs that feel better. My babies if you've been on the fence about switching, stop overthinking it. What's more important than your furry babies and their health? Go to justfoodfordogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code needed. Just try it.

[Jack Armstrong]

Hi, it's Kyle McLaughlin, host of the what Are We Even Doing Podcast. You know, my favorite part of the morning is that first cup of coffee. A small, quiet ritual that sets the rhythm for my day. That's why I appreciate DE'.

[Tom McClintock]

Longhi.

[Jack Armstrong]

For over 50 years, they've combined Italian craftsmanship and thoughtful design, and as the number one espresso machine brand in the world, they make it effortless. Just a damn fine cup of coffee in your own kitchen. Right now you can save 10% off your purchase at DeLonghi.com with code Kyle at checkout. After all, if it's not Italian, is it even espresso?