Caught Up in the Excitement!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: Caught Up in the Excitement!
Date: July 29, 2026
Hosts: Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty
Guest: Military Analyst Mike Lyons

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Overview

In this episode, Armstrong & Getty dissect a rapidly evolving geopolitical situation in the Middle East, primarily focusing on recent US and allied responses to Iranian-backed attacks. The show features military analyst Mike Lyons, who provides in-depth analysis on Iran’s tactics, the broader international implications, missile defense strategy, and the complexity of decision-making within Iran’s regime. The hosts later pivot to rich, nuanced discussions on historical misunderstandings about the Founding Fathers and slavery, the ongoing cultural shift in higher education amid rampant AI-related cheating, and the societal phenomenon of declining birth rates in U.S. cities. Throughout, Armstrong & Getty maintain their signature tone—sharp, skeptical, and laced with humor.

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1. Middle East Escalation: Iran, the US, and Global Implications

Timestamps: 02:13 – 15:17

Key Developments

• Recent Attacks:

  • US and Saudi fighter aircraft conducted airstrikes in Iraq in response to over 30 Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC)-directed drone attacks on US assets over 72 hours. (02:13)
  • President Trump’s response: “We are going to beat the effing s out of them... We’ll be hitting them hard. They're going to get a beating.” (03:00; Jack Armstrong quoting Trump)

• Analyst Insight: Mike Lyons

  • On Iran’s Proxy Tactics:
    • "Multiple different factions inside of Iran... power is very decentralized... one sector can fire a missile at the other, while one sector is trying to do a deal with the United States." (03:48, Mike Lyons)
  • Missile Defense Limitations:
    • “We have to get out of the missile defense business, frankly, and get back in the missile offense business and go more on the offense.” (05:40, Mike Lyons)
    • Missile accuracy may be due to targeting support from Russia or China. (05:10)

• Strategic Dilemmas

  • Unclear Strategy:

    • “They haven’t communicated [the strategy] very well... military attacks, sanctions, negotiations, pressure from allies... In a perfect world, you have regime change maybe, but right now we’re looking for regime compliance.” (06:13, Mike Lyons)

  • Arms Inventory:

    • Discussion around Patriot missile stockpiles and the wisdom of publicizing possible shortages. (08:03)
    • “Weapons aren’t an endless supply... There is a finite number as to what that is. We have to be prudent from the economic side.” (08:24, Mike Lyons)
    • Notable moment: Jack calls the leak about missile shortages “tiptoeing up to the line of treason.” (08:03)

  • Globalizing Conflict:

    • China reportedly supplying Iran with manpads (portable air-defense systems). (09:48)
    • "With Ukraine now entering this Iran US conflict by hitting Russian ships in the Caspian Sea... no one ever thought Ukraine would hit a Russian anything in the Caspian Sea a thousand kilometers away.” (11:03, Mike Lyons)

Memorable Quotes

• “If you say that every other day and then often don’t follow through on it... boy who cried wolf.” (03:08, Joe Getty)
• “This conflict is expanding... No question.” (11:03, Mike Lyons)

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2. Media Narratives and Interpretations

Timestamps: 11:59 – 13:21

• Hosts critique mainstream media headlines framing US/Saudi actions as escalatory, instead of emphasizing Iranian aggression.

  • “U.S. and Saudi airstrikes drag more countries into fighting.” (12:09, Jack Armstrong quoting NYT)
  • “It’s as if it’s something we did to make this worse as opposed to Iran attacked a US Military base yesterday.” (12:09, Joe Getty)

• Jack and Joe discuss the tendency to overestimate the rationality or cunning of foreign adversaries.

  • “Maybe the Iranians just plain misplayed their hand... If we can do dumb things, they can do dumb things.” (13:22, Joe Getty)

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3. The Complexity of Iranian Internal Politics

Timestamps: 14:05 – 15:17

• Discussion of Iran’s internal decision-making:
  • “Who’s making these decisions in Iran? Is it two different groups? Is it 15 different groups?” (14:05, Joe Getty)
  • “It’s beyond volatile.” (14:33, Jack Armstrong)
• Saudi Arabia and Israel’s unprecedented open alignment against Iran noted as a significant shift. (14:55)

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4. The Founding Fathers and Slavery: Myths, Realities, and Moral Struggles

Timestamps: 15:55 – 40:04

Key Discussion Points

• Debunking the 1619 Project:
  • “The 1619 Project is a cynical, awful work of fiction... it’s so completely, wildly, cynically untrue it’s hard to believe anybody believed it.” (26:53, Jack Armstrong)
• Jefferson and the Moral Quagmire:
  • “Thomas Jefferson was a young, crusading lawyer who kept trying to roll back slavery.” (28:16, Jack Armstrong)
  • “The founding generation wrestled with this question... every day they thought slavery’s evil. Nobody’s outlawed it on earth... America was constantly saying, how do we get rid of slavery?” (37:51, Jack Armstrong)
  • “The idea that they were just kind of hemming and hawing and ignoring the obvious... It’s not true. In fact, it’s the opposite of true.” (35:19)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “What is extraordinary, indeed unprecedented, about the American revolutionaries was that time and again they conceded that the principles for which they fought would require the liberation of the enslaved…” (28:16, Jack Armstrong reading from Proclaiming Liberty)

• “Immediate emancipation would probably excite insurrections among the blacks to rise against their masters and embrew their hands in innocent blood.” (citing John Adams, 35:19)

• “Burn in hell, 1619 Project, you lying liars.” (39:06, Jack Armstrong)

• Personal Reflections:

  • The moral paradox of Jefferson drafting the Declaration while owning slaves.
  • “It’s a blot on his legacy.” (36:44, Jack Armstrong)
  • Guest Tim Sandifer's declaration: “[Jefferson is] not only my favorite founding father, he’s my favorite person who’s ever lived.” (37:25, Joe Getty)

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5. AI and Academic Integrity: Cheating in Higher Education

Timestamps: 19:33 – 22:14

• Professors’ struggle to detect and prevent AI-generated cheating.
  • “Half my students are cheating.” (20:13, Joe Getty quoting another professor)
  • “Students are not students anymore. They are customers at a luxury resort.” (21:05, Jack Armstrong)
  • Reflection on college culture shift: “It’s more like a daycare. The parents are the customers...” (21:14, Joe Getty)

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6. Declining Birth Rates in American Cities

Timestamps: 25:54 – 47:28

Main Points

• Significant drop in young children populations:
  • "San Jose, California has seen a drop of kids under age 5 of 34% in the past 10 years.” (45:34, Jack Armstrong quoting a study)
  • Affordable cities like Albuquerque and Milwaukee also see double-digit percentage declines.
• Cultural and Economic Theories:
  • “You’re making almost 400k [in Charlotte] and you don’t think you make enough money to support a kid? You need to admit you just don’t want kids.” (46:37, Jack Armstrong)
  • “People don’t want kids. Why people don’t want kids is the question. And nobody’s really got the answer.” (47:28, Joe Getty)

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7. Lighter Moments, Notable Humor, and Memorable Sound Bites

• “We don't need a soccer team. Just watch the ones on TV. No, I want a soccer team.” (44:38, Jack Armstrong, lampooning Jeff Bezos reportedly buying a soccer club)
• Discussion on declining demand for David Lee Roth concert tickets—“Don’t jump, Dave. Don’t jump.” (45:17, Jack Armstrong)
• “My wife and I bonded over Supertramp.” (37:39, Jack Armstrong; reaction to Jefferson being cited as another couple’s favorite historical figure)

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Key Takeaways

• Geopolitical Chaos Is Growing:
  The Middle East is dynamic and increasingly interconnected with Russia, China, and Ukraine, making old strategies and simple alliances obsolete.
• Media Skepticism Matters:
  Armstrong & Getty urge listeners to look past headlines and narrative framing for the substance of the story.
• American History Is Nuanced:
  The Founders' moral and practical struggles with slavery were real and recurring, not a simple story of hypocrisy.
• Social Change Is Nonlinear:
  Trends like declining birthrates or rampant AI cheating are complex and cannot be pinned on a single cause.

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Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• "We are going to beat the effing s out of them." — Donald Trump, as quoted by Jack Armstrong (03:00)
• "We have to get out of the missile defense business... and go more on the offense.” — Mike Lyons (05:40)
• "It’s beyond volatile.” — Jack Armstrong (14:33)
• “The 1619 Project is a cynical, awful work of fiction...” — Jack Armstrong (26:53)
• “Burn in hell, 1619 Project, you lying liars.” — Jack Armstrong (39:06)
• “People don’t want kids. Why people don’t want kids is the question. And nobody’s really got the answer.” — Joe Getty (47:28)

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For listeners:
This episode weaves urgent conversations about war, history, culture, and society using a blend of sharp analysis, historical context, and irreverent humor, making it an essential listen for anyone looking to go deeper than headlines.

Transcript

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[Jack Armstrong]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio

[Commercial Announcer]

Studio at the George Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Getty. And now here's Armstrong and Getty. US And Saudi fighter aircraft struck multiple terrorist logistics and weapons sites across Iraq in a strong response to over 30 IRGC directed aerial drone attacks in the last 72 hours. The unwarranted attacks against US forces were not successful. And that's the latest proof that in this newly shaped Middle East, Saudi Arabia is On the same side as Israel.

[Mike Lyons]

President Trump reacting to that Iranian attack on US Forces overnight in Jordan, President Trump tells Fox News about Iran.

[Jack Armstrong]

We are going to beat the effing s out of them. He went on to say. We'll be hitting them hard. They're going to get a beating.

[Joe Getty]

The problem, of course, being that if you say that every other day and then often don't follow through on it. The I don't know if you're familiar with the whole boy who cried wolf story, but major attack on a US Military base by Iran yesterday. Luckily we were able to defend it, but it doesn't change the intent.

[Jack Armstrong]

I want to get into some of the bizarre media coverage of this, but that can wait till we discuss the the basics of the situation with military analyst M. Mike Lyons, who joins us now. Mike, welcome. How are you?

[Mike Lyons]

Hey, good morning, guys. Great to be back.

[Jack Armstrong]

What do you make of the attack by Iran, the heightened involvement of various proxies around the region? Where are we right now?

[Mike Lyons]

Well, you know, obviously this surprise attack takes place during the funeral of Lindsey Graham. You know, this is just, I think it's a message and who we're dealing with on the Iranian side and the fact that they decided to do that. The US didn't attack when they were doing that ceremony for Khomeini back then. So I'm sorry, surprised. But it just shows that they have a will and they've got some level of fight. As I'm reading from Institute study of War, they are reporting that the multiple different factions inside of Iran that are controlling lots of different things right now. So the power is very decentralized. And while one sector can fire a missile at the other, one sector is trying to do a deal with the United States. I mean, when Trump gets on, says they're talking to us, they're begging us to stop. Well, it might be somebody in Iran doing that, but it's not the people that control all weapons. So it's still very, very confusing and very fluid.

[Joe Getty]

Well, somebody who controls some pretty powerful weapons decided to attack a US Military base. So, you know, I don't know how many people agreed with them. How, how big of an attack was that and what would it have been like if we hadn't been able to intercept them all?

[Mike Lyons]

Well, you know, again, the air defense systems that we have there are in layers and they depends on what part of the atmosphere they're coming from. And likely with the Patriot missiles took them out and the naval assets that we have in the region there. But the targeting would have been important in terms of location. And we think that they're getting, you know, the Iranians are likely getting this targeting data from Russia or China. It's very difficult for them with a few missiles that they're firing. Usually they have to fire them more en masse. The fact that they could be as accurate as they've been is telling. And I think we have to admit to the fact that they're getting help from somebody and it's either Russia or China or somebody that has this, this other capability. But we have to get out of the missile defense business, frankly, and get back in the missile offense business and go more on the offense.

[Joe Getty]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay. I was going to ask you, the forces that we have aligned there in the region, how do they match up with what we need to accomplish? Although it's so complicated because you got to figure out first what is the strategy? Is the strategy really truly the economic squeeze and just waiting till they capitulate or beg for mercy? How do you see things strategically right now?

[Mike Lyons]

They haven't communicated that very well. And so I would say as the strategy is, the military tax combined with the sanctions combined with some negotiations combined with pressure from allies, and that would order to get them back to the negotiation table. In a perfect world, you have regime change maybe, but right now we're looking for regime compliance. I think that would be a reasonable answer. The first MOU now has completely failed. I mean, that's not even a starting point. And the first MOU had so many holes in it. That's the reason why it failed. So we have to learn from that, decide if we're going to do this again. But I would like to see a 30 to 35 days air campaign like we did back kind of a desert storm of continuous attritting their capability, using military force to do this in order to see if Iran does break from the inside or finally some of those coalitions come together, decide they want to have a deal.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

There's a report the other day that Trump was getting some advice that the reason that we had stopped after 14 straight nights of bombing was he is told, you know, we've kind of heat all hit all the targets we can hit and we're down to stuff, that it's really not worth the expenditure, weapons, blah, blah, blah. Do you agree with that or no?

[Mike Lyons]

No, No, I don't think so. I think the. You have to bait them out now at this point, they have so few missiles, but they can't fire at scale. And so at this point, you have to bait them out and see when they bring them. And then we go and launch those attacks, use AI, use satellites, use all our soft technology and power in order to kind of do that. Because they, they're, they're, they on their side are not going to necessarily expend all their ammo as well. When they take a shot, they want to make a shot that they think they're going to hit something. But, but for, you know, they could still have 500 missiles left. That's still a significant amount of missiles that they desired. To fire all at once would be significantly damaging.

[Jack Armstrong]

One of the big stories over the weekend and Monday, I think it was, was that the other reason that Trump decided to call off the dogs is that we're running so dangerously low on Patriot missiles. We kind of had to. I think whoever leaked that to the media is tiptoeing up to the line of treason. I can't believe that somebody would leak that. Am I overboard with that?

[Mike Lyons]

Yeah, I don't think that's the case. But again, the weapons aren't an endless supply. It's not. We go to the Patriotry and pick up some more Patriot missiles and decide we're gonna have them. There is a finite number as to what that is. I think we've been growing the Patriot inventory year over year for about the past 30 years. We did give a couple of batteries and I think five batteries to Ukraine over the past few years and they've expended some missiles. So there are canisters. But I'd like to think we're not going to run out of ammunition. But like anything else, we have to be prudent from the economic side of it. We will get to a point where we have to really think through as to when we could start manufacturing. I'd like to see us start, start remanufacturing re energize the defense budget. Andorra, for example, is a company that's doing things out of the extraordinary, not on the regular. The military acquisition systems. They're getting missile defense systems to the market faster. We've now allowed the Ukrainians to license to manufacture Patriot missiles. They'll get a factory up and running very quickly and they're going to be very much dependent on their own air defenses. I think when their conflict is over.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, so that gets into, I think your piece you wrote for realcleardefense.com the Iran War is back. The deal that ends it must not rearm Tehran. And you wrote that before they attacked our base yesterday. But what was Your, what was your main point?

[Mike Lyons]

Well, it's, it comes back to China again. There's reports now this morning, Reuters is reporting that the Chinese are shipping manpads, which are those shoulder fired air defense systems to try to help with the Iranian air defense systems. They won't be able to get their large scale, you know, SA 4000 that come from Russia. But the Chinese are now looking to possibly rearm the Iranians and so will the Russians there. I think one thing we haven't talked about is the front now opening up in the Ukrainian war into the Caspian Sea which borders on Iran, which is Iran has shipped their supplies and materials into Russia, their shahed drones and the things that go there. So overall the next MOU has got to cover not just US and Iran and what Iran's got to do, but it's got to make sure that Russia or China doesn't have any capability to rearm Iran in the near future.

[Jack Armstrong]

You know, I prefer not to go to knee jerk alarmism or deal with cliches, but what you just said definitely raises our level on the World War DEFCON scale. This is a spreading not just geographically, but it's become a different kind of conflict. If that sort of thing is out in the open, where are we in, you know, in that.

[Mike Lyons]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Where would you measure?

[Mike Lyons]

Great point. No, no, because with Ukraine now entering this Iran US conflict but by, by hitting Russian ships in the Caspian Sea, I mean look, five years ago when this started, no one ever thought Ukraine would able to hit a Russian anything in the Caspian Sea a thousand kilometers away. The Caspian Sea is a landlocked piece of sea that borders Iran and Russia and Kazakhstan, those areas there. Russia thought they could put military assets in there and have a free reign in everybody's. But no NATO vehicle ever in there. They, we have no eyes on that at all. But the fact that the Ukrainians have opened up that front now is huge. So no question this, this conflict is expanding. You had Bibi and Zelensky and Washington yesterday looking at each other, I think talking specifically about that. I think you know, Israel is also part of that game as well.

[Jack Armstrong]

Holy cow. Military analyst Mike Lyons. Mike, we appreciate the perspective as always, great stuff. Let's stay in touch.

[Mike Lyons]

Great guys, thanks for having me.

[Joe Getty]

Thanks.

[Jack Armstrong]

You know, I wasn't going to get into what I brought up earlier, but the, the headline New York, New York Times Iran War Live Updates U.S. and Saudi airstrikes drag more countries into fighting.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, right. With like it's something we did to make this worse as opposed To Iran attacked a US Military base yesterday. One of their strongest attacks yet. Thank God we're able to shoot down all the missiles. But that. And then we responded with the Saudis help because the Saudis are being attacked by the Houthis who do what Iran

[Jack Armstrong]

tells them to do.

[Joe Getty]

Right. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

That is, we dragged him into the fighting. Okay. It's despicable.

[Joe Getty]

Interesting perspective. I heard on a podcast the other day from David French, guy who writes for the New York Times, that there is a tendency to think sometimes that your opponents can't be dumb or myopic or overreach or make mistakes. And maybe the Iranians just plain misplayed their hand when they started this back up, because I, I was saying at the time, why didn't they keep this going? They got the greatest deal in the world, this MoU thing, and it stopped. And now they get to keep secretly trying to get a nuclear weapon while they're selling oil and making money. I thought they were going to drag that out for years until there was a new president, but no, they started

[Jack Armstrong]

the war back up again.

[Joe Getty]

It's possible that they just made. They did a dumb thing. If we can do dumb things, they can do dumb things.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yeah, Absolutely true. Yeah. Yeah. I'd have to think about what they're thinking. I've been trying now for quite a few weeks. I, you know, and I'll fall back to the argument I've made before. They have decided that control of the Strait of Hormuz is their new nuclear weapon. It's their new deterrent. As long as we control the strait, nobody's going to mess with us or attack us anymore because they so desperately need the straight. And so we're going to fight tooth and nail to control the straight. That's the only thing I can come up with. The biggest unknown that is 100% necessary,

[Joe Getty]

the biggest unknown is what Mike Lyons brought up at the beginning there to me is who's making these decisions in Iran. Is it two different groups? Is it 15 different groups? And then to me, the fact that, well, one of the groups that wants a fight has their finger on the button of ballistic missiles. So they must be a pretty powerful group. There might be other groups out there with different ideas, but I. They ain't got control of the missiles.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, and remember in a situation like that that all those groups and power centers are eyeing each other suspiciously with their hands, ready to reach for their gun, in effect and saying, yeah, yeah, sure, buddy, I agree with you, pal. Let's hang together on this one there. And then they go back to their separate meeting places and, and say, holy cow, those guys are nuts. We got to keep an eye on them. So, I mean, it's beyond volatile.

[Joe Getty]

And with Saudi Arabia, as Peter Doocy pointed out, with Saudi Arabia fighting on the side of Israel, which, because they're an ally of ours, the United States, Saudi Arabia and Israel fighting against Iran, I mean, that was Saudi Arabia fighting on the side of Israel was unthinkable not very long ago. Sure.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Wow. Round and round and round she goes. Where she stops, nobody knows. Coming up. And I'm looking forward to this a brief ish discussion of the Founding fathers and slavery, which is a topic that has been absolutely twisted by progressives who want to tear down the Constitution and then the United states from the 1619 Project to the Democratic Socialists of America. Like to set you straight, at least to some extent, and a whole lot more.

[Joe Getty]

Did you see the piece in the Wall Street Journal about why so many American cities have no kids?

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes.

[Joe Getty]

That's interesting. Maybe we'll talk about that at some point. Lots on the way. Stay here.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Gettysburg.

[Mike Lyons]

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[Joe Getty]

That's a professor explaining a clever way of catching kids using AI. It did not understand that at all.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm sorry, you did not understand?

[Joe Getty]

No, I did not.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, he hid the word Madagascar in certain passages that they were not supposed to copy and paste. And and his point was not only did they cheat, but they didn't even read what they sent me because they would have seen the ridiculous word Madagascar in the middle of a sentence, said, hey, what? You know, even more relevant than that Free Press had. I'm a Brown University professor. Half my students are cheating. Washington Post was reporting even elite colleges are scrambling to root out AI Cheating. You can't absolutely rampant.

[Joe Getty]

You're not going to. You got to come up with completely different ways of going about it. Yeah. Because I got a friend who teaches classes and he said, oh, ye. It's just, it's. It's endless. And they do it in class. You're not allowed to. I said, well, don't let them have their phones. That's a safety issue. The university won't allow you to take their phones. What if there was a shooting? Oh, give me a freaking break. So every kid has to have his phone in the one in a gazillion chance an active shooter comes onto the campus and your phone would have somehow helped you in that situation. So because he got your phone, they cheat on all the tests.

[Jack Armstrong]

And Professor Getty, here's the rule for this class. Phone stays in your pocket. If I see it, you lose half a letter grade. If I see it the second time, you lose a full letter grade.

[Joe Getty]

This professor friend of mine explaining to me that the parents would immediately be on the university official saying, hey, we're paying $40,000 a year for this.

[Jack Armstrong]

Exactly. Yeah. As we were discussing the other day, students are not students anymore. They are customers at a luxury resort actually, that holds some lectures and stuff.

[Joe Getty]

It's more like a daycare. The parents are the customers because they're the ones calling and complaining. And, you know, you're worried the kids might tell the customer when they get home from school. I didn't like my teacher today, you know, as if they're five years old,

[Jack Armstrong]

except for they're 20 years old. Right? Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah. He's. He regularly. He's a. He's a PhD. He's a professor at a major university and he parents call him and complain and. Or the university officials say we get. Parents are complaining about your blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Jack Armstrong]

What? My parents were completely unaware of what I was doing in class. My parents only complaint was about me, my behavior.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, one AI thing I wanted to throw in. We were talking about AI there. Nvidia. Nvidia just spent $750 billion on some of the other AI companies who are buying their chips. And Bloomberg points out the whole reigniting the circular AI fears that this is all just people investing in each other, and we still don't know what the product's ever going to do.

[Jack Armstrong]

The Founding Fathers in Slavery A Brief Introduction yeah, if Michael had his bubble noise handy, I'd be asking him to play it right now. Armstrong and Getty hey, it's Ryan Reynolds

[Mike Lyons]

here for Mint Mobile.

[Ashley Iconetti]

Now.

[Mike Lyons]

I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

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[Ashley Iconetti]

This is Ashley Iconetti from the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast Ben. I've been reflecting a lot lately on how many big life moments our listeners have experienced with us.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, it's pretty wild.

[Ashley Iconetti]

They've watched us go from dating shows to engagements, weddings, babies, buying homes. Every stage comes with new decisions.

[Jack Armstrong]

The milestones are the fun part, but the planning is where things get real.

[Ashley Iconetti]

That's why Klarna stands out. Klarna gives people smarter tools to help manage everyday money with flexible ways to pay cash back that builds automatically everything in one place and support that makes everyday decisions feel less overwhelming.

[Jack Armstrong]

Since life moves so fast, the right tools can help you feel more confident. Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more. California Resident Loans made or arranged pursuant to a California Finance law license and MLS number 1353190 Klarna balance account required to be eligible for cashback points. Limitations, Terms and conditions apply.

[Tony Ayo]

This is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent's going up, streaming services are going up. Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the Will this Go Up Soon? Game because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life, meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you. Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s, and when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement. Some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Joe Getty]

A lot of cities, particularly in California, ain't got no kids left. Kids are disappearing, like, at a crazy rate, which is gonna have a big effect on public policy, I gotta believe.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, and different ripples of effects, too. Can't wait to talk about that. I almost lost my nerve for this segment for reasons I'll explain in a minute. I was reading last night Tim Sandifer's favorite fabulous Proclaiming Liberty, John Adams, Tom Jefferson, and the Declaration of Independence. And the section I was reading, and it's worth mentioning the 1619 project is a cynical, awful work of fiction. The idea that the revolution was held to perpetuate slavery is so completely, wildly, cynically untrue it's hard to believe anybody believed it. But the book's absolutely wonderful because it talks about all of the things that are in.

[Joe Getty]

The project's not wonderful. No, the book is wonderful.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, sorry. The book is wonderful because it describes all of the specifics in the Declaration of Independence and what they were Talking about, he has sent forth swarms of officers to, you know, plague our people and eat out our substance. He has forced legislatures to convene in weird, out of the way places. And I've never really understood that. I'd never gotten that. I was like, he did or they did, because it was all about Parliament. And yeah, sure enough, and it's just such a wonderful story of the lead up to the revolution. But last night I was reading the section about Thomas Jefferson in the late 1760s and very early 1770s, and how he was Thomas Jefferson, crusading against slavery. And the reason I almost lost my nerve was I just kept reading thinking, this stuff is great. We need to talk about this on the show. This is fabulous. And then this morning, as I'm, you know, about to start this, I realized there's like eight pages of like fine print, single spaced, and, and I had not like rewritten it and highlighted it and stuff like that. But I'm gonna give you the, the, the, the general version of it. And I think it would be an absolutely wonderful excuse to have Tim back on the show to talk about this specifically. But I am going to start.

[Joe Getty]

He loves this topic.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yeah, well, and it's so interesting. I mean, never mind, you know, my feelings and patriotism and my point of view or whatever. It's just, it's much more interesting than the idiotic, oversimplified story that y' all have been fed. A lot of you. Anyway, I'm going to start at the end, or nearly at the end. What is extraordinary, indeed unprecedented, about the American revolutionaries was that time and again they conceded that the principles for which they thought would require the liberation of the enslaved, even if racial, racial prejudices, including their own, still seemed like an insuperable barrier. They talked a lot, they wrote a lot about, hey, this all men are created equal stuff. We've got slaves going on. That doesn't work. They were utterly open about it. They talked about it all the time. They wrote brilliant treatises on it. Thomas Jefferson was a young, crusading lawyer who kept trying to roll back slavery. Why did he keep his slaves? Why didn't he turn them loose? There's a partial explanation for that, but why he didn't follow the example of George Washington, who in his will said, by the way, all my slaves are free when I die. It's not clear. It's a bit of a mystery, but the idea that they were just kind of hemming and hawing and ignoring the obvious, you know, inconsistency, I Don't want to call it hypocrisy because they called it out to themselves, but why it existed. A couple of tidbits for you. First of all, a young Thomas Jefferson tried to. In a case in 1769, I think it was, tried to limit slavery and was absolutely slapped down and humiliated by it, or in the case rather, by the powers that be and the judges and the other attorneys and that. And, you know, those folks. And Tim goes on to point out that slavery and other forms of compulsory servitude were ubiquitous in America and all over the world, hundreds of thousands of people. Ben Franklin was an apprentice. He was a forced laborer for a limited amount of time. That was one of the several different kinds of that sort of thing, and suffered so severely as an apprentice that he had run away breaking colonial law. Some of the other interesting points that Tim makes, and he cites all of the contemporary documents, is that, well, he goes into a fair amount of detail about, you know, their entire philosophy made slavery look absolutely terrible. But every time they tried to limit it, roll it back, emancipate slaves, Parliament in Britain said, no, you can't. But they would not let the colonists pass laws to liberate slaves under any circumstances, except very, very narrow ones. And Parliament, which at the time was claiming it had ultimate unchecked power over the king, over the colonists, over everybody. If they said it was the law, it was the law. You have no rights. Parliament will tell you what your rights are. That's the reason, really, if you want to, you know, encompass it in one sentence, why we broke away from England because of parliamentary supremacy. But anyway, every time we tried to do something, they said, no. The Royal African Company is, you know, approved and supported by the. By England. It's part of the government and you would be doing injury to them. That was the great slave importer. So, no, you can't do that. Sorry. So the founding fathers tried over and over and over again to limit the scope of slavery as much as they could and were told no by the Crown, or I'm sorry, really, by Parliament, which I found very, very interesting. The other part of it that nobody wants to talk about because A, it doesn't serve their purposes or B, it's uncomfortable. And I'm sorry, Jack, I do. I don't mean to monologue on this. Feel free to bust in any time.

[Joe Getty]

I was just thinking about. Tim and I were talking about when you were gone. This was around the 4th of July time. I had rewatched the first couple episodes of the John Adams miniseries that they're running on HBO or Netflix or someplace. Anyway, I'd seen it before, but episode two of the first season, that's when they get into the Declaration of Independence, the voting, and he's sitting in the attic there. It's him and Franklin and Thomas Jefferson had just written it and are reading it for the first time. And John Adams gets to the, you know, the we hold these truths to be self evident part, which was like they weren't when, when Thomas Jefferson, when T.J. was given the task of, you know, write up a Declaration of Independence, it didn't include and, you know, form a new kind of government that nobody's ever done in before. He kind of came on his own, gave it back to him. All men are created. And John Adams says, this isn't just a Declaration of Independence. This is a declaration of a new way of structuring society completely.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right?

[Joe Getty]

And Jefferson says, yeah, well, it's what

[Jack Armstrong]

I think think, right? 100%. So to the question of, okay, so the founding papas understood that slavery was incompatible with, you know, the, the truths that we hold most sacred as Americans. So why didn't they turn all the slaves loose? I get why people ask that. It's a legitimate question. And, and the answer, a good answer, would be long and complicated. But I'll give you just a couple of tastes of it. Only a few years after the Declaration, Jefferson published Notes on the State of Virginia in which he set forth his, quote, suspicions that the blacks are inferior to the whites. A later generation seized on his words to justify slavery. And although Jefferson himself denied this connection. Whatever be their degree of talent, it is no measure of their rights, he said. He did come to the conclusion that biological as well as historical differences between the races made it impossible for them to live together permanently in North America. Jefferson was one of many white Southerners who, while regarding slavery as evil, found it impossible to imagine a peaceful, multiracial democracy. Such a thing had no historical precedent. The record with which the Founding Fathers were familiar suggested that racially and religiously diverse societies could only be governed by emperors, as with Rome, or through legal segregation, as with medieval Jerusalem. No civilization known to man had ever successfully abolished slavery. History seemed instead to prove that mass emancipation led inevitably to deadly reprisals and Civil War. Even Yankees such as John Adams agreed on this point. Immediate emancipation, wrote Adams, quote, would probably excite insurrections among the blacks to rise against their masters and embrew their hands in innocent blood. So you've got the combination of fear of what emancipation would look like just on a practical level, there will be a civil war and incredible bloodshed. You got the crown saying, or I'm sorry again, Parliament saying, you're not allowed to do that. We're not gonna let you. And then you've got the pressure, as they're trying to put a country together, of the southern colonies saying, our economic system depends on this. So we're putting that over there, you know, to the side. We're gonna table that until we tell you or we will not sign on. Combined with the fact that. That none of this was. Had any precedent. What do we do now? And so, you know, if you wanted to lambast them for not being aggressive or fast enough in answering what seems like the unanswerable, that's fair. And historians can argue about that. But the idea that it was just some sort of winking, I don't see anything hypocrisy among Thomas Jefferson and the founding father. The. The contrast between our founding words and slavery, it's not true. In fact, it's the opposite of true. They. They were sickened by it. They wrestled with it constantly and didn't know what to do.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I don't like that Jefferson had slaves and kept slaves while writing that. I wish that weren't a fact.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yeah. It's awful. And. And especially given Washington's example, nobody can really explain why he did what he did in the way he did it.

[Mike Lyons]

It's.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's a blot on his. On his legacy

[Joe Getty]

because of his idea for not just declaring independence from England, but for forming an entirely new way of government. Just a new idea that we have. We're born with natural rights. That a new idea. I don't think you were here for this conversation that Tim mentioned that He. He said he decided, and he told his wife, he said, thomas Jefferson is not only my favorite founding father, he's my favorite person who's ever lived. And his wife said, me too.

[Tony Ayo]

Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow.

[Joe Getty]

You get two people who get married and you're in love with each other. Both their favorite person who ever lived is not each other. It's Thomas Jefferson. And that is their bond. Wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

Wow. My wife and I bonded over Super Tramp, but, you know, to each their own.

[Joe Getty]

I just think that's hilarious.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. That is so my favorite person who ever listened to. For you, it's Thomas Jefferson.

[Joe Getty]

Me too.

[Jack Armstrong]

Me too. So it's a bit of a throuple. So if there's one takeaway, I want you to take away. Hence the term takeaway. It's that far from pretending it wasn't the case, the founding generation wrestled with this question. I think it's safe to say every single day from the 1760s through the 1860s, every day they thought slavery's evil. Nobody's outlawed it on earth. Oh, the Brits get credit for ending the slave trade. That's partly. Well, it's a complicated. That's another story. But America was constantly saying, how do we get rid of slavery? At a time when slavery was ubiquitous everywhere on earth. The Arabs, the Africans themselves, the Native Americans all had slaves like crazy and considered it normal Muslims. What do you mean outlaw slavery? Muhammad himself says, slavery is great. No freaking way. We're outlaw. The Americans were unique in saying, we've got to find a way to do this. Burn in hell. 1619 Project, you lying liars.

[Joe Getty]

Which is probably in your kids school library or maybe even in the classroom

[Jack Armstrong]

they're teaching them right now. You know what? I will commission Tim. I will pay his princely fee to write a children's book on this very topic.

[Joe Getty]

That'd be a good one.

[Jack Armstrong]

I could write it, but I'm a man who craves leisure.

[Joe Getty]

Also, the percentage of. Of black slaves that were purchased from black people who had enslaved other black people is so left out of the whole conversation.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, and you can make the. Well, it's. It's like the drug control argument. There was a voracious appetite for black slaves in America. So that's why the black people enslaved the other tribes of black people or whoever they beat in war or whatever and sent them to America for profit. Profit. It's America's fault for wanting slaves. Right, but that's, that's, that's not a strong argument. If you're making a moral argument, you can't go to that argument.

[Joe Getty]

Right, right, right, right. Disappearing kids in California and all over the country and all over the world, really. That and other topics on the way. Stay here.

[Jack Armstrong]

Armstrong and Gettysburg.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Ashley Iconetti]

This is Ashley Iconetti from the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast. Ben I've been reflecting a lot lately on how many big life moments our listeners have experienced with us.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, it's pretty wild.

[Ashley Iconetti]

They've watched us go from dating shows to engagements, weddings, babies, buying homes. Every stage comes with new decisions.

[Jack Armstrong]

The milestones are the fun part, but the planning is where things get real.

[Ashley Iconetti]

That's why Klarna stands out. Klarna gives people smarter tools to help manage everyday money with flexible ways to pay cash back that builds automatically everything in one place and support that makes everyday decisions feel less overwhelming.

[Jack Armstrong]

Since life moves so fast, the right tools can help you feel more confident. Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more. California Resident Loans made or arranged pursuant to a California Finance law license and MLS number 1353190 Klarna balance account required to be eligible for cashback points. Limitations, terms and conditions apply.

[Tony Ayo]

This is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent's going up, Streaming services are going up. Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the Willis Go up Soon game because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life, meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s. And when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement, some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up, only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment,

[Joe Getty]

the award winning storytelling podcast from kqed. And every week, Snap deals new card. Like jumping on Rihanna's private plane.

[Jack Armstrong]

Or the accidental bank robber. Or even the man who was swallowed by a hippo. What? Pick a card, any card.

[Joe Getty]

Snap Judgment from kqed.

[Jack Armstrong]

New episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcast. More than a dozen kids at camp

[Mike Lyons]

in New Jersey fell ill last week

[Jack Armstrong]

after they allegedly ate chocolate that was laced with mushrooms. And that was the day they all learned how to make a campfire with their minds.

[Joe Getty]

Want to get this headline before I get to the troubling disappearance of kids? And I. I should say people aren't having kids. Neighbors, kids are just.

[Tony Ayo]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Otherwise you think it's a Q and

[Jack Armstrong]

A rapture thing or. Yeah, or QAnon.

[Tony Ayo]

Right.

[Joe Getty]

Saw this headline. Jeff Bezos is reportedly in talks to bid for a 30% stake in an English soccer team. You know what went on there? His wife got caught up in World cup mania and so we should get a soccer team. Buy a soccer team.

[Jack Armstrong]

We don't need a soccer team. Just watch the ones on tv. No, I want a soccer team.

[Joe Getty]

Everybody's talking about soccer.

[Jack Armstrong]

We need to get a soccer team.

[Joe Getty]

And then he took his big lipped wife and they went and bought a soccer team.

[Jack Armstrong]

Then you got Mark Zuckerberg telling everybody, don't worry about AI. It's fine, Trust me. Oh, hilarious.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, and how did David Lee Roth come up on the show the other day? Doesn't matter. Friend of mine who lives in Salt Lake City and does radio there. We do radio there. We're on in Salt Lake City now. They canceled a David Lee Roth show at a venue that only seats 1100

[Jack Armstrong]

people for four ticket sales. I don't know how many people have bought tickets at an 1100 seat arena.

[Joe Getty]

Not very many, apparently.

[Jack Armstrong]

Might as well jump. Go ahead and jump. Don't jump, Dave. Don't jump to the disappearing kids story.

[Joe Getty]

People aren't having kids all around the world, as we've talked about a lot. Doesn't matter. Your politics, your income, your skin color.

[Jack Armstrong]

Doesn't matter. People just stopped having kids.

[Joe Getty]

So. And nobody knows why. But in cities, it's more noticeable than anywhere else. San Jose leads the way. Most California cities do. San Jose, California has seen a drop of kids under age 5 of 34% in the past 10 years. In 10 years.

[Mike Lyons]

Wow.

[Joe Getty]

That's just a different city. That's a different makeup of human beings. If you have that big a drop

[Jack Armstrong]

in kids, which will be the engine of a huge change in governance.

[Joe Getty]

But. And some people say, well, it's so expensive to live there.

[Gronk]

That's why.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, and even an affordable cities, the number of children has fallen. Albuquerque, New Mexico, one of the most affordable cities in America. 15% drop over 10 years. Milwaukee, 11% drop. Double digit drop over 10 years. People ain't having kids. They started with some neighborhood where an old woman said it used to be kids riding bikes around here all the time. And that was what the neighborhood was. Park was full of kids. Now no kids.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, I read this. Nellie Bowles putting out this case study from Charlotte, North Carolina. Wonderful city. It's a case study highlighting a local couple who think they don't make enough money to have children yet. And she points out that people love saying the birth rate is fall because of the cost of living. And they get very upset when you suggest anything else. So here's the situation. The woman owns a house with her husband, 15 year mortgage, pays an additional $4,000 monthly toward the principal. Just for peace of mind. We can't feel like we can't have kids until we feel more financially secure. Her husband makes 190k, blah, blah, blah. So their total household income is $380,000 annual. You're making almost 400k in Charlotte and you don't think you'd make enough money to support a kid? You need to admit you just don't want kids. Which is okay. But stop leaving leaning on that financial explanation.

[Joe Getty]

Right? People don't want kids. Why people don't want kids is the question. And nobody's really got the answer for that.

[Commercial Announcer]

Armstrong and Getty,

[Tony Ayo]

this is Tony Ayo from the Real report with Tony A.O. and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent, streaming, even extra Sosa at your favorite burrito spot. But with Boost Mobile, you don't have to play the Willis Go up soon game. Boost Mobile offers an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for Life Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Gronk]

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