Dancing With Cats!

Summary

Armstrong & Getty On Demand

Episode: "Dancing With Cats!" | September 18, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Armstrong & Getty On Demand tackles two main topics swirling in current events and digital culture: the controversy around Jimmy Kimmel’s recent suspension—exploring the complex web of FCC pressure, political sensitivities, and ratings—and the ongoing legal and political drama over TikTok’s existence and ownership in the United States. The show brings in CBS News legal analyst Thane Rosenbaum as a guest to clarify some of the legal tangles. There’s also a lighter running bit involving email scams and "Ukrainian girlfriends" that adds some comedic relief.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Jimmy Kimmel Suspension: What’s Really Going On?

[00:16, 25:12, 30:12]

• Complex Causes: The hosts clarify that the suspension isn’t due to just one factor. There’s FCC pressure, but also plummeting ratings, expensive production costs, affiliate pushback, and broader culture war dynamics.
  • “If he had big ratings and was making lots of money, he could have said what he said and survived it. So you need kind of all the elements to end up where it ended up.” (Jack Armstrong, [01:18])
• Government Overreach Concern: Jack strongly objects to FCC Commissioner Brendan Carr’s public threats toward ABC’s license over Kimmel’s content, calling it “a 100% violation of the First Amendment.” ([24:24])
  • “That is the government infringing on free speech to pressure these various organizations that they could lose their license if they’re airing Jimmy Kimmel or at least threatening it.” ([24:24])
• Past vs. Present in Late-Night: A Johnny Carson clip demonstrates how previous generations viewed late-night television as entertainment, not a vehicle for political or cultural influence. Jack and Joe argue this cultural shift both fueled resentment and made the current shake-up inevitable. ([30:41])
• Notable Quotes:
  • “Kimmel is a smug ass hat.” (Jack Armstrong, [30:12])
  • “For decades, the left held the megaphone…this is a different time.” (Reading Mark Halperin, [26:07])
  • “That’s a real danger. Once you start [getting self-important], you could sway people. And I don’t think you should as an entertainer.” (Johnny Carson, [30:41])

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2. Tick Tok in America: Legal, Political, and Algorithmic Drama

[04:52 – 13:55, Guest: Thane Rosenbaum]

• Ongoing Uncertainty: U.S. legal action continues to threaten TikTok’s operation due to data privacy and national security concerns. The show details how American and Chinese interests are struggling to find a compromise.
  • “This is now the fourth attempt to stave off forcing TikTok to end operations in the United States.” (Thane Rosenbaum, [05:09])
• Business and Security Crossroads: The discussion reveals how TikTok isn’t just cat videos—it’s crucial to many small businesses and also serves as the top news source for young Americans.
  • “There are in fact small businesses all over the United States that depend on TikTok as their main marketing technique.” (Thane Rosenbaum, [06:30])
• Algorithm: The Big X-Factor: Whether the app stays the same, with the same algorithm, is still in question. If it changes, “you can call it TikTok but it’s not the same thing.” (Jack Armstrong, [11:46])
• Manipulation Concerns: Rosenbaum points out TikTok’s power to shape news consumption, raising the stakes for national security and freedom of information.
  • “It’s even worse than that…most young people get their news from TikTok…algorithms that can easily be manipulated are tailor making a newsfeed…” (Thane Rosenbaum, [09:24])
• First Amendment and Regulation: If TikTok becomes an American company, the government’s hands may be tied: “Social media companies are protected…the government can’t interfere with their First Amendment rights.” (Rosenbaum, [10:44])
• Notable Moments:
  • Jack humorously asks the guest if he uses TikTok or ChatGPT, and Rosenbaum demurs, identifying as “a writer by trade,” not visually oriented ([08:44], [13:21]).

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3. Email Scams and ‘Ukrainian Girlfriend’ Saga

[15:12, 34:17, 36:32]

• Running Bit: Jack shares his ongoing interaction with a scammer/bot impersonating a Ukrainian woman professing her love and attempting to bait him into clicking links.
  • “At the encouragement of Michael and Katie, yesterday I responded to her…” (Jack Armstrong, [15:12])
  • “Sometimes she’s a long haired blonde, sometimes she’s a short haired brunette. All my kisses for you, Jack…” (Jack Armstrong, [16:30])
• Turning the Tables: Inspired by his producer, Jack considers reversing the scam by asking the “girlfriend” for money himself, adding a comedic twist to the cautionary tale ([36:32]).
• Cautionary Emphasis: The story underscores the prevalence of phishing and relationship scams, mixing humor with real warnings.
  • “I do wonder how the bot or the hacker or whoever it is is going to respond when I ask them for money.” ([38:07])

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4. Media and Free Speech — Broad Reflections

[25:12 – 32:46]

• Culture Wars in Media: The hosts and Halperin’s analysis both contend that television can no longer simply serve one cultural group and expect survival.
  • “The culture war is no longer a one way battle. For decades, the left held the megaphone. ...This is a different time.” (Reading Mark Halperin, [26:07])
• Risks of Precedent: Armstrong cautions that FCC pressure now could embolden future administrations to target right-wing or talk radio under the guise of social responsibility.
  • “The reason I hate the idea of the FCC leaning on any ABC affiliates…It’s not always going to be Trump or a Republican president.” ([28:44])
• Audience Fragmentation: Ratings and ad revenue realities are forcing media companies to recognize that alienating half the country is no longer sustainable.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On TikTok’s Algorithm:
  • “From what I understand from people who love TikTok, it’s all about that amazing algorithm that can predict what you want to be entertained by.” — Jack Armstrong, [11:46]
• On Manipulation Risks:
  • “If they were just watching videos of people dancing with their cats, that would be one thing…what we’re really learning, which is really distressing…most young people get their news from TikTok.” — Thane Rosenbaum, [09:24]
• On Jimmy Kimmel’s Suspension:
  • “Kimmel is a smug ass hat.” — Jack Armstrong, [30:12]
  • “As much social and political change as [Charlie] Kirk manifested in life, more upheaval is clearly being caused by his death.” — Quoting Mark Halperin, [29:49]
• On Fake Ukrainian Girlfriends:
  • “She sends these pictures of beautiful young women, but they’re all different. They’re not the same person. Which is kind of funny.” — Jack Armstrong, [16:30]
  • “I should ask her for money first…That’s the winner right there.” — Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty, [36:32]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction and Tech Issues – [00:00 – 01:09]
• Kimmel Suspension Set-Up – [01:18 – 02:31]
• TikTok Deep Dive (w/ Thane Rosenbaum) – [04:52 – 13:55]
• “Dancing With Cats” & TikTok Algorithm – [08:09 – 12:02]
• Scam Emails & “Ukrainian Girlfriend” Saga – [15:12 – 18:09], [34:17 – 37:08]
• Kimmel’s Monday Night Clip & FCC Threats – [21:22 – 24:24]
• Halperin’s Analysis on Culture & TV – [26:07 – 29:49]
• Johnny Carson Clip & Late Night Reflections – [30:41 – 32:22]
• Final Thoughts (Show Wrap-Up & More Scammer Fun) – [37:12 – 39:09]

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Tone & Language

The episode features Armstrong & Getty’s trademark mix of skeptical humor, cultural critique, and open debate. Jack is sharp and sometimes acerbic, while Joe often adds a note of dry wit and world-weariness.

Overall Takeaway:
Listeners get an entertaining but in-depth look at cultural schisms in late-night TV and social media, government overreach vs. corporate self-interest, the quirky world of online scams, and the changing fabric of American media consumption.

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For more information, links, and merchandise, visit armstrongandgetty.com.

Transcript

[Thane Rosenbaum]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Jack Armstrong]

Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio at.

[Announcer]

The George Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Armstrong and Getty.

[Jack Armstrong]

And now, here's Armstrong and Getty. So this hour, in case you haven't heard, what Jimmy Kimmel actually said on Monday night, we'll play that for you. There's some great writing by Mark Halperin today about laying out all the different angles of the whole thing. Maybe you'd like to actually hear what the FCC chair said that kicked this whole thing off. So we'll cover that story pretty thoroughly a little bit later in the hour. We want to welcome to the Armstrong and Getty Show. Nope, not yet. You're waving your arm, Michael, you can just tell me on the microphone, what seems to be the problem? Nothing. Well, Hanson was talking to him on the phone.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Yeah, I tried again.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm trying to. Okay, well, that's weird. So Anson was talking to him on the phone in a different room. You can't talk to him on the phone here. All right, we'll figure it out. Can you turn Katie's microphone on if you get a chance? Thank you.

[Joe Getty]

I'm being censored. Misogyny.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes. You've been silenced for things you said about Charlie Kirk.

[Joe Getty]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Maybe things I said about Jimmy Kimmel.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, no kidding. So the long and short of the take on Jimmy Kimmel for us is I just saw a piece somebody else wrote. They stole. They stole my idea. There are, like, five different reasons Jimmy Kimmel is not on the air last night or tonight. Part of it is the FCC pressure, but part of it is the ratings. Part of it is the merger that's going on. Part of it is the unique political moment that is Charlie Kirk being assassinated and people being very sensitive to it. You got to mix all of those things in. Part of it is the expense of his show and how much revenue it was bringing in, or not all of those things factor in. Like, if he had big ratings and. And was making lots of money, he could have said what he said and survived it. So you need kind of all the elements to end up where it ended up. But I still do not like the FCC commissioner threatening licenses and everything over content that is. That is no good and no road to go down. So I need to either go on with this Jimmy Kimmel stuff, or do we think we're going to have our guest? Do we know. I'll make a decision one way or the other. I was told we're going to have Him. We're gonna have him. Oh, well, I guess now I'll do a little soft shoe dance until we get to our guest.

[Joe Getty]

Wow, I didn't know you could stop shoes. Look at you go.

[Jack Armstrong]

And I'm in cowboy boots.

[Joe Getty]

Are you really? Well, you're always in cowboy boots.

[Jack Armstrong]

Pretty much, yeah.

[Joe Getty]

Michael, how are you doing?

[Jack Armstrong]

This is, I'm hanging in there. We're hoping to talk to this guy Thane Rose Rosenbaum, who I'll set it all up and then hope we get him. He's a CBS News legal analyst. And I want to talk to about Tick Tock because he's delving into the details on that. There is the belief that there is some sort of deal that is going to allow Tick Tock to continue in the United States of America. And there are, there's different reporting out there as to whether that's going to be the same Tick Tock that you know and love just under American owners, or if it's going to be an American company but with a completely different algorithm that you might not dig near as much. I mean, the, the whole reason Tick Tock people love Tick Tock so much is that I've, I've heard from people that are on Tick Tock that consider it like the great, the greatest algorithms out there.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

But YouTube, what Facebook does and, and, and Instagram and all that sort of stuff pales in comparison. And the ability to Tick Tock, to feed you things that you like, I can't imagine what that must be like because like Instagram reels, if I, if I go on that thing at all, I'm, I'm there for a half an hour. Yeah. It's just so good at like, for me, a lot of it is sports highlights for things that it knows that I will like and concert footage. Oh, nice. Okay, between those two things like, oh, sure. I've never seen this clip of Bob Dylan playing here in 1976 or whatever and I just end up getting sucked into it.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, I watched a pretty fascinating. Well, part of a documentary. I couldn't take the kid anymore, but it was on Netflix and it was about this, this good looking young kid who went on TikTok and all these women just fell in love with him and he's, he's massive and like at one point they were saying, oh, you know, we'd like to donate to you. So he put his PayPal account on his bio of his Twitter or I'm sorry, on his TikTok page overnight, $60,000.

[Jack Armstrong]

And people are just Sending him money because he's cute.

[Joe Getty]

Yep. Because they think he's good looking. And I'm sitting there going, man.

[Jack Armstrong]

You'Re cute. Here's a hundred bucks.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Joe Getty]

And he would, he would go on there and say like, oh man, I wish I had this pair of shoes. And they'd show up at his door the next day. Wow, that's obsessed.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, that is really strange. Okay. We would like to welcome Thane Rosenbaum to the show. Now, CBS News legal. Anna, sorry we had so much trouble. Technical difficulties getting you on. So what is going on with Tick Tock? Is it going to exist in the United States and is it going to be the same algorithm?

[Thane Rosenbaum]

So jacket? We won't know for another 90 days. This is now the fourth attempt to stave off forcing TikTok to end operations in the United States. Remember, this started with legislation during the Biden administration that essentially had a, you know, we're not interested in social media companies that mine data of Americans that come from putative enemies of ours. And that there was no sufficient insulation or Chinese wall, so to speak, between the Chinese government and TikTok.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's a reasonable stance in my opinion.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Yeah, yeah. And the TikTok's epic. We're not really owned by Chinese.

[Jack Armstrong]

Come on.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

And so there became a fight about that when in fact ByteDance did have relationships with the Chinese government. And it's, it's not as if they could refuse a request.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

You know, it's like the Chinese government is like the godf. You don't request. So if they had asked for something, they would have said yes. So the Biden administration said, look, you know, you either sell yourself to an independent corporation or you, you shut down in your operation in the United States. You want to do whatever you do in Europe, that's fine, but not here. Donald Trump, you know, said, well, wait a minute, I think I won this election in part because of TikTok.

[Jack Armstrong]

Probably true.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

You know, it rallied an audience that I didn't really even have the last time. And everyone seems to have it. And there were an enormous amount of. It's not just apparently, I wouldn't know this Jack, but apparently it's not just images of people dancing with their cats. There are in fact small businesses all over the United States that depend on TikTok as their main marketing technique. So there was a movement among American businesses that said, well, wait a minute, we're a small business. This is how we compete. We need TikTok. So Donald Trump signed a of executive orders just one the other day that extended the time period for either shutting down or selling. And he claims that he knows of a consortium of venture capital companies, private equity and tech companies, including Oracle. And as you know, Larry Ellison has just. His wealth has increased enormously and I think he's interested in this too. So he apparently is part of this consortium. The argument is that, well, you, you, you, you. We need a. We have to add a board of director. Someone on the board of director who has some American affiliation. That's a requirement. And, and will extend the deadline for 90 days, hoping that the consortium can pull together the funds and meet with the regulatory approval that this no longer presents a national security risk to the United States.

[Jack Armstrong]

So do you have TikTok on your phone?

[Thane Rosenbaum]

No.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, me neither. And I can't.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

I vaguely know what it is.

[Jack Armstrong]

But.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Jack, Jack, if you'll remember, you had trouble calling me.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, well, I didn't personally, but obviously.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Right. I'm isn't there saying no. I'm blaming myself, obviously, since I don't have TikTok. I don't even know how to use a phone, apparently. So I'm not. I'm not the right guy.

[Jack Armstrong]

Do you not have TikTok because you're worried it's a Chinese data harvesting tool?

[Thane Rosenbaum]

No, not really.

[Jack Armstrong]

You're just not interested in social media.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

I'm a writer by trade and I just don't live in a world where everything has to be visual. And I work for CBS Radio.

[Jack Armstrong]

Good for you.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

I don't, you know, I don't. I don't focus. I don't need videos all day to keep me entertained.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, and I understand completely. The only reason I ever got Instagram, which was fairly recently, is it's kind of a marketing tool for the show. But. Yeah, but, but we've had the stats before and you've probably seen him of how many hours a day young people spend on TikTok. I mean, it's crazy, they almost seem made up, but I assume they're true because I've seen study after studying say that, you know, it's five hours for this group or seven hours for that group. I don't even know how that's possible.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

But it's even worse than that, Jack, because if they were just watching videos of people dancing with their cats, that would be one thing. It would be. It would be stupid as all get out. But if that's how you want your kid to spend your day, with another cat, that's dancing, fine. But what we're really learning, which is really distressing, and it raises First Amendment issues and other regulatory issues, is that most young people get their news from TikTok.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

So that's where it's worse than being entertained by silly videos. It's that algorithms that can easily be manipulated are tailor making a newsfeed. They tailor it for certain age groups, for certain sensibilities, perspectives, where they live, you know, whatever information. So that's really what national security means. It doesn't necessarily mean a bomb is going to go off. It means that you're going to mine data that tells you everything you need to know about America, where we're vulnerable, what kind of stuff we believe in, how easy it is to manipulate us. Just give us a video or shade.

[Jack Armstrong]

News stories, a certain direction that's in your favor.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Exactly right. As I'm saying about, you know, tailoring news feeds or blocking news feeds, for instance, make sure that Jack Armstrong never sees a story about this.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

He cannot see a story about this because he's the kind of guy that will, it'll, it'll, he'll talk about it on a show. So you're saying that's the kind of manipulation. And you know, remember, the social media companies are protected. The government doesn't, can't interfere with their First Amendment rights. So if TikTok is an American company, if it becomes one, the government really can't regulate it because they're saying, look, we have First Amendment rights. World, we're essentially like a newspaper. You can't tell us what to publish or what not to publish.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right. My final question, you're the CBS News legal analyst, but I'm going to quote. So CNBC reported the other day that the algorithm was going to, that the, for the, for the deal to happen, it was going to have to be a different algorithm then I think it was the Wall Street Journal reported that though it was going to be the same algorithm. Well, that's a pretty big difference because if it's a different algorithm, it's. It, you can call it tick tock, but it's not the same thing. And from what I understand from people who love TikTok, it's all about that amazing algorithm that can pretty predict what you want to be entertained by.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Yeah, I mean, that's the, that's the problem, the algorithm. Although I read somewhere else that they're saying, well, nowadays, at the time that this legislation was created, you know, algorithms were impenetrable and could never be duplicated.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

And apparent. And apparently that's no longer true.

[Jack Armstrong]

Gotcha.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

You know, we've, we've cracked, we've cracked the code and people can actually duplicate it themselves. That doesn't change the fact that, that we don't obligate social media companies or Internet companies to tell balanced stories. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't change the fact that, you know, should we be regulating, should there be subject to the FCC and other regulations? You know, there used to be something called, you're probably way too young for this, Jack. The Fairness Doctrine, which ended, I think, in the late 80s, where if you had a license for broadcasting, NBC, ABC, CBS, you had to present controversial views and you had to present other views so that it was more balanced. They got rid of that. So that's why when I was a kid and Walter Cronkite was the anchor for CBS News and a third of the country, or half of the country was watching him, no one knew if he was a Democrat or Republican. You had no way of knowing. That was a different time. Now it's clear the politics is on your sleeve, no matter who you are. We tell you up front and we protect you from differing opinions.

[Jack Armstrong]

So I got one question. This is, this is a Thane rosenbaum question. So TikTok is beneath you. Is, is our chat bots beneath you to use chat GPT and stuff like that?

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Not yet.

[Jack Armstrong]

Not yet.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

I'm not saying I, I'm not saying that I won't, but, you know, I'm, I'm a writer and a novelist and that stuff scares me.

[Jack Armstrong]

Here, I'll get my. I'm. I am currently reading ulysses and I'm 40% of the way through. I'm fighting my way through that book so to give myself some credibility in your world, the higher thinking world.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

You really impressed the hell out of me, Jack. That was pretty good. You're the only radio guy that I've talked to in years who says anything like that. James Joyce is something you're reading. Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

There you go. Rosenbaum, CBS News legal analyst. Thanks for your time today. I appreciate it.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Thank you, Jack.

[Jack Armstrong]

I liked his personality. Very entertaining guy. Okay, we got more on the way. Stay here.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Armstrong and Getty.

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[Jack Armstrong]

So I don't want to reset this whole story. Oh, by the way, Mark Halpern's writing about the Jimmy Kimmel thing I thought was really good. We'll have that next segment, but yesterday we did a little bit about this Ukrainian girlfriend that I've got. Jack Armstrong, My Precious Diamond. That's right. We've made a song about Jack Armstrong, My precious diamond. That's what she called me. So I don't. It's probably a bot. It might not even be a human being. If it is a human being, it's some hacker dude who, you know, sends out these emails to try to, I think, get you to click on a link. So she sent me another email that had a. I sent you a voice text. I want you to hear my beautiful voice. And then I'm supposed to click on the voice text and then that's how they, you know, then, then they're into your phone, into your computer and stealing data out of your bank and all that sort of stuff. So I'm not clicking on any links. But at the encouragement of Michael and Katie, yesterday I responded to her, which I hadn't done before yesterday. I responded funny, I've been thinking about you since I got up this morning. I can't stop thinking about you. All right, okay. So she responded at some point yesterday or the bot responded or the dude responded or whoever the heck it is. It's not a. I guarantee it's not this person and all.

[Joe Getty]

She sent you like six different pictures, right?

[Jack Armstrong]

She sends these pictures of beautiful young women, but they're all different. They're not the same person. Which is kind of funny. Sometimes she's a long haired blonde, sometimes she's a short head. Burnett. All my kisses for you, Jack. And then a bunch of emojis and stuff like that. Hello, my dearest sweetheart. Jack, thank you so very much for your wonderful letter. Your letter was a real present for me today. Jack, why don't you write to me every day if you're thinking about me? It will be Impossible for us to build a happy relationship if we do not talk to each other every day. If you do not answer my letters, don't tell me anything about yourself. You're right. I haven't told you much about myself. As in nothing, right? Nowadays our life is so wild and busy and she goes how through how difficult it is in the modern era for people to get together and fall in love. If a person has love and is a heart, then a person is considered to be happy. I would like my man to be everything for me. My friend, my lover, my husband, my everything. Okay, that's fantastic.

[Joe Getty]

Well, we went through how these things work. So right now you are in the relationship building stage and the next step is the crisis.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, that's why I'm playing along with this game because one, she sent the hyperlinks that the fishing expeditions were. But the next thing. Yeah, you're going to be there's a.

[Joe Getty]

Family tragedy or something that's going to require some form of money.

[Jack Armstrong]

I'm going to go with my dearest Rose Jack, I got the worst news today from my doctor. I have some sort of ailment.

[Joe Getty]

Testicular cancer.

[Jack Armstrong]

Testicular cancer. Exactly. And I do not have the money and I will lose my testicles by Friday if I do not get a thousand dollars. But that's why I want to keep playing along. I want to see when they when she actually asks for the money.

[Joe Getty]

And sweet Rose Jack, in order to keep my testicles you must pay me in the form of Target gift cards.

[Jack Armstrong]

Okay, so I'll respond to her and keep this. She's right. You can't build a relationship with unless you email every day. She's right.

[Joe Getty]

She's got a point.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes, Armstrong and Getty.

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[Thane Rosenbaum]

Scott, I'm not going to tell you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Anything you don't know here. You sometimes offend people. I hear about it on the socials. Do you think that you should then be held to the same standard that you're asking for? That if someone says that you you're offensive, that you're not doing civic discourse, that CNN should kick you off? I'm not worried about you and that happening to you in the present regime, but I am worried about other people in this bill. Two things we're not we don't fall under the same statutory regime. A B I expect to get fired every day. This is a tough business. And if I were Jimmy Kimmel, I mean I'm surprised that a guy who once wore blackface and caused large breasted women to jump on trampolines lasted this long in the media business. To begin with. He was long past his sell date. And the fact that he couldn't realize that and was going down this road of partisan hackery being unfunny and demonizing. That's a conversation on CNN yesterday with Scott Jennings, usually the lone Republican who says some exciting stuff now and then about getting canceled or booted off the air. And they were reacting to Jimmy Kimmel's show being indefinitely suspended. Is he off forever? Will he be back soon? I don't know. But ABC Disney made the decision to yank him because of some things he said on Monday night. I know, I know, I know, I know, the FCC stuff. I'll get into the details of all this in a second. I'm just trying to set this up before I get into the weeds. How about the whole. We'll play the whole long clip. I don't even know if I've heard the whole this is a minute worth of what he said Monday night. That really became the focal point. We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it. In between the finger pointing, there was grieving. On Friday, the White House flew the flags at half staff which got some criticism. But on a human level, you can see how hard the President is taking this.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

My condolences on the loss of your friend Charlie, of Kirk. May I ask, sir, personally, how are you holding up over the last day and a half, sir?

[Jack Armstrong]

I think very good.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

And by the way, right There you.

[Jack Armstrong]

See all the trucks. They just started construction of the new ballroom for the White House, which is something they've been trying to get, as you know, for about 150 years.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

And it's going to be a beauty.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes, he's at the fourth stage of grief. Construction, demolition, construction. This is not how an adult grieves the murder of someone he called a friend. This is how a four year old mourns a goldfish.

[Joe Getty]

Okay, so part of me wonders if Trump could even hear the reporter.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, during that, that aside, that, that tone Monday night, you know that we're four, four days away from that now, but Monday night, the, you know, that, that's a, that's a pretty snarky tone. You don't get fired for snarky tones or you can get fired for snarky tones if you're, if your owners don't like it. You don't get booted out because of government pressure for snarky tones. And was there government pressure from the fcc? Some of you are claiming there isn't. I would say that there is. It's one of the elements in this whole story. There are many elements in the whole story that I'm going to pull all together. Let's start with Brendan Carr of the FCC, was on a different talk show, said, this is 37, Michael.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

You know, when you look at the.

[Jack Armstrong]

Conduct that has taken place by Jimmy Kimmel, it appears to be some of the sickest conduct possible, frankly, when you see stuff like this, I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action, frankly, on Kimmel or, you know, there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead, a very reasonable, minimal step that can be taken. I mean, obviously there's calls for Kim will be fired. I think, you know, you could certainly see a path forward for suspension over this. And again, you know, the FCC is going to have remedies that we could look at. Yeah. So you got the commissioner of the FCC threatening pretty plainly, it seems to me, of sort of fines or taking a look at your license if you're a broadcaster, if you're airing these kinds of shows. I mean, that seems pretty clear to me that he was threatening and that is 100% violation of the First Amendment, which is Congress shall, you know, pass no law or not infringe on free speech. That is the government infringing on free speech to pressure these various organizations that they could lose their license if they're airing Jimmy Kimmel or at least threatening it. That's just one element of it. The other element of it is Kimmel's ratings, like all late night ratings, have gone down, down, down, down. He had made the decision a long time ago is I'm gonna pick one side and demonize the other side. So he cut out half of America. There are a lot of ABC stations in red America, lots of them whose audience have no interest in watching that show. And the people who own it in that town know it. That that shows just a dead spot for them because nobody in their audience in where they live is going to watch the dang thing. And, and they've been airing into all these years. We'll get to the, the new reality here in just a second. But so those, some of those stations said we're going to drop Kimmel. They're. They've got their own viewers to deal with. And then there's part of a deal, merger buyout thingy that's happening with ABC and a bunch of affiliates and all that sort of thing that can get hung up if the FCC jumps in. There's just a whole bunch of elements here. I understand some of my favorite conservative pundits are only concerned about the fcc, what the FCC commissioner said, because you're getting to free speech territory. And I understand that too. I just think it's worth pointing out that there's a bunch of elements involved. I think if Kimmel's ratings were good, even if he said these outlandish things, he would have been safe. His ratings are not good. Um, oh, and by the way, that thing he, he's saying is ridiculous, that the, the guy's clearly maga. MAG is trying to make it seem like this guy isn't maga, this shooter, he's clearly not maga. I mean, that's just a nuts position. I don't think you should get booed off the air for having a nuts position. But that's a nuts position again, unless your owner thinks you should get boot off. These are completely different things. Whether the government's telling you should leave or your owner thinks, you know what, I don't think this is good for our audience anymore. Yeah, those are different things.

[Joe Getty]

A lot of the Sinclair stations I'm seeing are going to be airing a Charlie Kirk special in Jimmy Kimmel's time slot on Friday.

[Jack Armstrong]

That's interesting.

[Joe Getty]

Which I'm taking a lot of joy from.

[Jack Armstrong]

So Mark Halpern wrote a really long piece about this, and I just picked out some parts of it. The complaint from the Left is that it's very straightforward. A comedian is out because politics collide with, with television. But that completely elides a second reality. For years, broadcast networks shoved a one sided cultural sermon, and that's what it was, a sermon into living rooms and told the other half of the country to smile through it. ABC ran two daily hours the View and Kimmel that treated Trump with unrelieved hostility and insultingly treated Trump voters as a punchline. If you're looking for reasons, tens of millions migrated into the former president's camp. That steady, that steady contempt is perhaps as good an exhibit A as you will find. That's just a reality. In my opinion. They are clueless. The culture war is no longer a one way battle. For decades, the left held the megaphone. Late night awards shows, prestige dramas. Oh, that's right, all your dramas that have been on for years, that were always so far left, whether you're watching, you know, not Landing or Dynasty or whatever it was over the years. I always had this left bent to them. Streaming algorithms. The rights tools were talk radio and a few corners of cable news. But this is a different time. It requires an entertainment industry that remembers it is a business, not a ballot initiative or a propaganda operation. You want the broadest audience in a fractured country? Try something radical. Respect them not with forced neutrality or melee both sides scripts, but with a simple rule. No nightly contempt for the people who pay the bills. If Disney wants to keep Kimmel at Cannes, it just has to own the choice and carry the cost. If it wants to win back affiliates and viewers, it might ask why the mock the Rubes format feels tired at best and hostile at most outside of your coastal zip codes. And then finally, this. The Mouse House Topper. That's what he calls Iger. The guy who runs Disney, abc, more than most Hollywood liberals, knows what time it is willing to outrage many of his own employees and constituents to try to stay one step ahead of the new reality. We are watching something unprecedented set in motion by both Trump's reelection and the assassination of Charlie Kirk. It is possible Kimmel will return to the air, and he certainly won't leave the metaphoric stage without a fight. But we have not seen the last of this whirlwind. As much social and political change as Kirk manifested in life, more upheaval is clearly being caused by his death. That is Mark Halpern writing to the point that. And he, and he does have paragraphs in there about the FCC leaning on these stations, which is a part of the mix, but there's no getting around the fact that though the era of the left owning all of the culture, institutions and being able to, you know, talk to us the way they talk to us and we had to put up with it, it's just over. Audiences have got other things to do, they're gonna boycott. There's all kinds of different things that can happen now. The reason I hate, and I'll say it for the fifth time, but I think it's important enough. The reason I hate the idea of the FCC leaning on any ABC affiliates for carrying Kimmel is because it's not always going to be Trump or a Republican president. There's going to be a Democrat president, Gavin Newsom. You could absolutely picture Gavin Newsom putting in an FCC commissioner that comes out and says talk radio is causing division in this country. The latest violence, and there will always be some violence to spread, to point to the latest violence is a direct result of out of control right wing talk radio. And we're going to take a long look at the licenses of these stations who air shows like. And they'll name a whole bunch of them, maybe even including Armstrong and Getty. And I don't want to live in that world either. So that, that I think is the totality of the whole story. Kimmel is a smug ass hat.

[Joe Getty]

Amen to that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh my God, he's hard to take.

[Joe Getty]

And he's just so fake, you know, with the crying and the, you know, that whole spiel he went on after Trump got elected this last time around for the women and the children, the sick and it's like, just shut up, shut up.

[Jack Armstrong]

You want to hear a clip from Johnny Carson talking about late night? Oh yeah, yeah. I want to get this on. This is Johnny Carson on 60 Minutes back in the day.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Tell me the last time that Jack Benny, Red Skelton, any comedian used his show to do serious issues. That's not what I'm there for. Can't they see that? But you're not neither. They think that just because you have a Tonight show that you must deal in serious issues. That's a danger. It's a real danger. Once you start that you start to get that self important feeling. That's when what you say has great import. And you know, strangely enough, you could use that show as a forum. You could sway people. And I don't think you should as an entertainer.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah, well, Kimmel and Colbert have made a lot of money for themselves and for a while quite a bit of money from the networks, but that, that's over you stuck your thumb in the eye of probably more than half the country.

[Joe Getty]

Yep.

[Jack Armstrong]

And then you got the competition from all these different things. You just slice the pie down to the part that you know. I'm sorry, Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert. Nobody. There aren't enough people to give a crap about your sermons. I thought that was a good term. Your sermons every night about what's wrong with those of us who don't agree with you, that there's no money in it. There's not enough money in it to support your very, very expensive shows. That's for certain. So Jimmy Fallon, good for him. He by far tried to stay out of one sided politics the most. And he's the one left standing. He might really benefit from this because if, if he ends up being the only talk show. Joe thinks Kimmel's coming back. I don't know if I believe that or not. But if Fallon ends up being the only talk show, he'll get. You know, the big star promoting the movie every time because there's no other show to go on.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Right.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's just so annoying.

[Joe Getty]

Well, and I liked what Carson said there. I mean, like that's not what they're there for.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. Such a different era though, in all kinds of different ways. For one thing, Johnny Carson. I forget what the number was. I looked this up after Colbert lost his job, but I think it was 20%. Carson's show alone was 20% of NBC's revenue.

[Joe Getty]

Oh wow.

[Jack Armstrong]

I mean, so he was a big flipping deal and his ratings were huge. And so he wanted to talk to as much of America as he could. Now you got it sliced into a tiny little group of people agree with your whining sermons every single night. And those shows are actually losing money. So it's just a different thing. Hanson came up with a great idea on how I should handle my Ukrainian girlfriend. Email pen pal. I'll tell you about that next. Armstrong and Getty.

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[Jack Armstrong]

So we talk a lot about scams online scams here on the radio show when they get hot or whatever. This is an old one. The somebody who has your. Especially for men, I suppose. I guess it works both ways. Yeah, I've heard it work both ways, men and women. Somebody gets your email address from who knows where because we've all been hacked 10 different ways by different. The Experian or whatever company got hacked and all your information got out. So so many people have your email address. So somebody in Russia, Iran or whatever has been sending me these emails claiming to be some young Ukrainian hottie who has fallen in love with me without ever having met me or seen me or whatever. And I like.

[Joe Getty]

I like Michelangelo's suggestion that it's Joe playing a prank on you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Anyway, and so I. She'd been emailing me and I finally responded yesterday. And I've been waiting for the. Where. Where are they trying to get money out of me.

[Joe Getty]

Yeah, the crisis.

[Jack Armstrong]

So she's had links. I haven't clicked on the links. She's now unhappy that I'm not emailing her back enough. Hi. My dearest sweetheart, Jack. Thank you so much for your wonderful letter. My response was. What was my response yesterday? It was very short. There's something like, nice talking to you.

[Joe Getty]

Something about. You've been thinking about her all day.

[Jack Armstrong]

Right, right, right. I woke up thinking about you.

[Joe Getty]

I think that was it.

[Jack Armstrong]

And she. She said it's a bot. Thank you so much for your wonderful letter. Your letter was a real present for me to Jack. Why don't you write me every day if you're thinking about me? It will be impossible for us to build a happy relationship if we do not talk to each other every day. If he did not answer my letters. My sweet, precious diamond rose or all these different things she calls me.

[Joe Getty]

She sounds clingy.

[Jack Armstrong]

She does sound clingy. That is true. Oh, my God, yes. Clingiest of all. Yeah, but. So I've been waiting for the. My landlord says he's going to kick me out if I don't pay my rent and I just lost my job. If you could just send me one month's rent, I'm sure I can find a new job. But my Darling love, sweet Rose, I, you know, I love you so much and blah, blah, blah. But she hasn't asked for money yet. Well, Hanson, our executive producer, came up with the idea I should ask her for money first.

[Joe Getty]

That is just.

[Jack Armstrong]

Which I think is really hilarious.

[Joe Getty]

That's the winner right there.

[Jack Armstrong]

Email her back. I know you're in war torn Ukraine and I'm here in perfectly comfortable United States of America.

[Joe Getty]

Well, she already told you she was safe, remember?

[Jack Armstrong]

I don't know.

[Joe Getty]

She's fine.

[Jack Armstrong]

What do I need money for? Have I been thrown in jail? Do I have a health problem? Did my car break down? What should I tell her I need money for?

[Joe Getty]

You want to come see her?

[Jack Armstrong]

All right, I want to come see you, but now is a bad time for me. I didn't have the money. If you could just send me 800, I'm sure I could come see you. And my darling love princess, we could be together forever.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, my gosh. Please do this.

[Jack Armstrong]

Please do this and see how it goes.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

Well, there's Jack and there's Joe, and.

[Jack Armstrong]

It'S time to hit the show with the help of Katie Green and Michelangelo. There are friends, they're our family and.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

They'Re on our radio. So let's hear their final thoughts before.

[Jack Armstrong]

They have to go. Oh, that's creepy.

[Joe Getty]

Oh, gosh, I hate that one. I hate that one.

[Jack Armstrong]

Here's your host for final thoughts. Me. Let's get a final thought from our executive director, Michelangelo. Press on the button. You know, I'm picturing a drunk Joe Getty sitting around a computer with his.

[Joe Getty]

Golf buddies saying, yeah, I've done this for years.

[Jack Armstrong]

He falls for it every time. Look at this. Guys called him a precious diamond and they all just start laughing.

[Joe Getty]

So good.

[Jack Armstrong]

Oh, man, there is Katy. Katie, the news lady. Katie Green, what's your final thought?

[Joe Getty]

I really hope that this flip that you're going to pull with these emails works out, and I really want some screenshots. We need to make a whole thing about this on the website and on social media. All of it.

[Jack Armstrong]

I do wonder how the bot or the hacker or whoever it is is going to respond when I ask them for money. What do we say? Now, this has never happened before. I'm going camping with my son this weekend and I'm not much of a camper. I love camping. I just. I just. I don't know. I've never dedicated time to figuring out how to do it or whatever. I mean, we got a tent, we got a cooler, we got a little cook stove. I got some hamburger buns and some hamburger. Do I need anything else? Flashlight? Sleeping bags? Yeah. Hoping not to get attacked by bears. I'll let you know how it goes. On Monday, Armstrong and Getty wrapping up another grueling four hour work day. So many people to thank. That'd be everybody who works on the show and everybody who listens. You should go to our website, armstrongandgetty.com where you can buy swag and see a lot of the stuff we were talking about on hot links. And I hope your darling Diamond Rose sends you a lovely email this weekend. Awesome. See you Monday. God bless America. Armstrong and Getty. There were so many great moments on today's Armstrong and Getty show.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

You know, I've got plenty of flaws somewhere and who knows what they are? I know because they. They have this annual event here which, which for journalistic purposes I need to go visit, which is called Oktoberfest.

[Jack Armstrong]

So. Do you have TikTok on your phone?

[Thane Rosenbaum]

No.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, me neither. And I can't. I don't know.

[Thane Rosenbaum]

I vaguely know what it is. Bye Bye. Armstrong and Getty. This is an I heart podcast.